Ex-Commerce Secretary Bryson won't be charged in California car crashes

From June 21: U.S. Secretary of Commerce John Bryson is leaving his post to attend to his health after being involved in two hit-and-run accidents. NBC's Brian Williams reports.

Updated at 5:10 p.m. ET: Former Commerce Secretary John Bryson will not face criminal charges in California after a trio of traffic accidents last month, according to the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office.

The announcement came after prosecutors reviewed evidence presented by San Gabriel police, said spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons.


Bryson, 68, resigned June 21, 10 days after saying he would take a leave of absence to focus on his health issues. He said the crashes were caused by seizures and he didn't want his health to distract from his job.

Authorities said Bryson, on June 9, struck a Buick stopped for a train, spoke to its three occupants, hit it again as he drove away, and then rammed into another vehicle with his Lexus a few minutes later in a nearby Rosemead, the Los Angeles Times reported. The men in the Buick followed Bryson and called 911, police said. 

Bryson was found unconscious in his vehicle, and was cited for felony hit-and run.

The district attorney’s report released Tuesday said Bryson’s blood tested negative for alcohol and controlled substances but positive for Ambien at “low end therapeutic levels.”

“Criminalists can not say it was a factor in driving or the collisions," the report said.

Doctors treating Bryson agreed he was “suffering from confusion following a seizure and crashed as a result,” it said.

Doctors said there was insufficient evidence to show “knowing failure to provide personal information for hit and run” or to prove driving under the influence, the report said.

Manuel Balce Ceneta / AP file

Former Secretary of Commerce John Bryson

Bryson's neurologist initially diagnosed Bryson as having a "complex partial seizure," a Commerce Department official said earlier. Bryson had a "limited recall of the events" surrounding the seizure, which was said to be Bryson's first, a Commerce official said.

Bryson had been in California to deliver the commencement address June 7 at Pasadena Polytechnic School where his four children had attended, the Times reported.

Bryson, who has a home in San Marino, is the former head of Edison International, the holding company that owns Southern California Edison, and has served on boards of major corporations, including the Boeing Co. and the Walt Disney Co.

This article incudes reporting by The Associated Press and msnbc.com's Jim Gold. Follow him on Facebook here.

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Discuss this post

Finally a story re a criminal charge very "laic", which even a high-level public official might have a harder time of getting a reduced sentence for based on political status.

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 12:49 PM EDT

I think he was just doing his impression of the recovery under his own watch........Crash.......Crash.......Crash.......passout.

  • 11 votes
#1.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 12:55 PM EDT

NOW that is funny!!!

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:44 PM EDT

what is not reported , they also did a blood test, it also came up negative; it looks as if , he has a serious health problem, seizures are a sign of some very life threatening condition. best of luck to him.

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 4:44 PM EDT

Ambien? I remember during the 2008 presidential election John McCain when asked about legalization of Marijuana for medical purposes he said: "I'm for Ambien, not Marijuana", with a large grin on his face. Now I know what he was talking about. Great.. Marijuana does not cause a series of seizures that cause multiple hit-and-runs. How long is this pathetic war on marijuana going to go on?

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:42 PM EDT
Reply

Obama: "Executive Privilege!"

  • 6 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 12:59 PM EDT

I smell a rat: Suspect it was a drinking and driving incident where he did a hit and run and POTUS asked for his resignation to avoid a scandal...

[NOTE TO SELF]: I need to claim I was having a seizure the next time I am involved in a hit and run...

  • 8 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:02 PM EDT

Breathelyzer was negative!! Why dont you wait for toxocology reports before making a judgement. That IS the American way. Tho, I suspect you're a right winger so that does matter!

  • 7 votes
#3.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:58 PM EDT

That's why I said, "Suspect"

Bryson was driving a Lexus in the 400 block of South San Gabriel Boulevard shortly after 5 p.m. on June 9 when he allegedly rear-ended a Buick as it was waiting for a train to pass, authorities said.

After briefly stopping to talk to the three men inside the Buick, Bryson left the location in the Lexus and then struck the Buick a second time, authorities said. The men followed Bryson's car and called 911 to ask for assistance, according to a police statement.

Bryson continued to drive his Lexus into Rosemead, which is patrolled by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, authorities said. There, he allegedly crashed into a second vehicle with two people inside near the intersection of San Gabriel Boulevard and Hellman Avenue, they said.

Officers found him alone and unconscious behind the wheel of his car, authorities said. An investigation into the incident is ongoing.

SOURCE: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/john-bryson-commerce-secretary-car-crashes.html

CURIOUS: How did Bryson perform a breathalyzer test if he was unconscious?
PS: In Virginia, we spell breathalyzer and toxicology the correct way, not breathelyzer or toxocology...A proper education is also the American way. I guess it is a 'right winger' way as well...

:-/

  • 4 votes
#3.2 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:12 PM EDT

The problem with seizure disorders is that the idiots of the world (some of whom are posting on here) have no idea what they are talking about. Here's some info from epilepsy.com:

"A seizure is usually defined as a sudden alteration of behavior due to a temporary change in the electrical functioning of the brain, in particular the outside rim of the brain called the cortex. Seizures can take on many different forms and seizures affect different people in different ways. It is not implied that every person with seizures will experience every symptom.

Sometimes, a warning or aura may preceed other symptoms but is not followed by any other symptoms. It may be considered a simple partial seizure by the doctor.

The middle of the seizure may take several different forms. For people who have warnings, the aura may simply continue or it may turn into a complex partial seizure or a convulsion. For those who do not have a warning, the seizure may continue as a complex partial seizure or it may evolve into a convulsion.

The end to a seizure represents a transition from the seizure back to the individual’s normal state. This period is referred to as the “post-ictal period” (an ictus is a seizure) and signifies the recovery period for the brain. It may last from seconds to minutes to hours, depending on several factors including which part(s) of the brain were affected by the seizure and whether the individual was on anti-seizure medication. If a person has a complex partial seizure or a convulsion, their level of awareness gradually improves during the post-ictal period, much like a person waking up from anesthesia after an operation. There are other symptoms that occur during the post-ictal period. The most common are confusion and blackouts."

The issue here is that the guy had a seizure and displayed all the classic symptoms, especially confusion, a sense of unreality, and blackout. Since they gave the guy a breathalizer test, no alcohol was involved. The toxicology tests could be another issue, but I'll get to that in a moment.

There is a non-sensical patchwork of state and local laws regarding seizures that range from complete banning of the person from driving, operating certain machinery, flying an airplace, holding a teaching certificate, or even running for elected office. Other states allow all the same things if the person has their seizures under control. In some states exceptions can be made on physician's advice and in others not. This causes the majority of people who have seizures to fail to report them.

Just as one example of how common seizures are: have you ever seen a baby between 10mos and 2yrs just shudder suddenly and for no accountable reason? Done it yourself? That is a seizure. In about 26 states you are required by law to tell them and disqualify yourself from driving. Many people have seizures when they run high temperatures (especially children) and others from over-exertion, mental stress, or dehydration. It is common in marathons for two or three runners to have seizures and drop out. All these examples of either simple partial seizures or complex partial seizures. The latter was the diagnosis.

When a person has a first seizure, the cause is extremely important. Obviously if the person is a marathon runner, the trigger might be evident. They are quite common in infants but first seizures diminish rapidly with age. When a person Bryson's age has one the first places physicians look are for brain tumors or cerebrovascular problems. There is also a possibility that Bryson had seizures in the past and is stabilized on medication and has not had a recurrance. One characteristic of seizure control meds is that they are very sensitive to hydration and can become non-functional if a person becomes either too hydrated or dehydrated. (When you drink too much water --- usually to do the dumb physician myth of 80oz of water a day --- it is called "water intoxication."

There is a possibility that Bryson had seizures in the past and was taking medication to prevent future seizures. If this is the case, Bryson will be charged since the state of California is one of six states (California, Delaware, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon and Pennsylvania) that still require physicians to report patients who have seizures to the state department of motor vehicles. While these statutes arguably do little to protect the public interest, they have been used to bring civil litigation against physicians who have not reported their patients to the department of motor vehicles, even in cases where patients are compliant and on medication as well as the patients themselves." This would result in both criminal and civil charges in California. While a judge would be unlikely to pass out a harsh sentence in cases like Bryson, it is still a law still on the books even though EVERYONE has a partial seizure once in a while.

The other things that could well be at work are:

1) This was actually the first seizure for Bryson, he is not on medication, no alcohol was found, and that the confusion and disorientation and finally the blackout are perfectly compatible with a complex partial seizure. This would leave Bryson in the position of having to have a number of demanding tests to determine exactly what the cause was in case it was a brain tumor or a vascular problem. He could well be resigning to be able to commit to the steps necessary to find out what is wrong.

2) If this was not the first seizure for Bryson and he was on medication, this will come back in the toxicology testing and the police will file charges --- most likely for driving on an invalid drivers license. If any physician in California prescribed seizure meds and failed to report it, the state is required to charge the physician as well.

3) There is a possibility that Bryson's seizure was his first and they already know what caused it --- and the most obvious are also the most deadly. Some people would just rather deal with these sorts of issues out of the public eye. So there is some reason to speculate that he might have a medical problem that precludes his performance of his official duties and he resigned as he should have.

4) There is also the memory in people of Bryson's age (and mine) that remember what the GOP screamers did to Sen Eagleton when he disclosed that he had been treated for depression in the past and once received electro-shock treatments for depression. The awful hate- and venom-filled things that the Republicans dealt out on that are still considered one of the most atrocious things the Republicans ever did to anyone for political gain. The mean-spirited hostility against Eagleton was a primary reason that Powell decided never to seek elected office. He knew the right-wing media would have a field day with his wife Alma's problems with depression and the possibility of bipolar disorder. Bryson could well have just decided that allowing the Tea Baggers to go after himself and his family during what is turning out the be the most vicious election year in modern American history.

Until some definitive finding is presented, right now it appears that Bryson has a first seizure, diagnosed as a "complex partial seizure" and struck a car at under 10mph. This would be consistent with a seizure because various visual disturbances are common --- including a temporary loss of binocular integration that would effect depth perception. Hitting the same car as he tried to leave (there was no visible damage in the first hit) again at slow speed was still consistent as the seizure continued. Do damage was caused by the second impact as well and it, too could be explained by a loss of depth perception. Then apparently by the third accident, the seizure was still escalating and when the police arrived he was passed out. The police did a breathalyzer test at the hospital and it showed no trace of alcohol. Blood was also taken for toxicology but those results have not been released. If and until something shows up in Bryson's blood tests that would cause charges, I seriously doubt that anyone except a DA seeking his 15 mins of fame would even consider charges.

Even in the best possible scenario in which Bryson would have no warning of a seizure and only a cause like dehydration was cound and no charges were placed, Fox and its idiotic followers would just maintain that it was "proof" that he was drunk. That's how the right wing brain works --- it doesn't. It is the same people saying that we shouldn't rush to judgement on Zommerman who are rushing to judgement on Bryson.

  • 8 votes
#3.3 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:48 PM EDT

Sorry about the strange bold sentence. Newsvine sometimes screws up HTML.

    #3.4 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:55 PM EDT

    Thank you, Dr. Chris-

    I am not offended by your bold print or the idiot comment...HONEST....

    But I am going to cut and paste this into my defense when I have to appear in court for my next hit and run...The funny thing is that the neural and motor skills are also impacted by alcoholic intake. I in no capacity claim to be a doctor, so I will go off of your expert research to support my 'Bryson' defense should I have to appear in court.

    • 1 vote
    #3.5 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:58 PM EDT

    Oh, for crying out loud! The guy had multiple seizures. Stop looking for conspiracies where there are none.

    • 7 votes
    #3.6 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:13 PM EDT

    @[o.o],

    Well it makes you look quite stupid that the there were no drugs or alcohol to support your stupid claims. The only drug found was Ambien (a sleep aid) at the lew end of therapeutic levels. Pretty much the drug you would expect to find in someone who has just flown across the country east to west and wanted to get his sleep regulated.

    But in your next hit-and-run, I would suggest that you plead stupidity or ignorance or just plain being a mean-spirited jerk. You will have a better chance.

    BTW --- you just went on ignore for bone-ass stupidity.

    • 2 votes
    #3.7 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:22 PM EDT

    I had a dog with epilepsy. That dog could feel it coming, she would come up to you and just lean on your leg and then the seizure would hit. But then my dog being the responsible citizen she was gave up her drivers license because she knew she had no business driving when she had such a serious illness and that she could accidentally harm others! PUT the SOB on a medical leave and revoke his license PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE

    • 3 votes
    #3.8 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:27 PM EDT

    Dr. Chris-

    Not that you will be able to read this since you put me on ignore, but last time I checked, you are not allowed to take your drink from a bar, you have to leave it behind. So there really wouldn't be any evidence necessary as you hypothesized. I am not a pharmacist, but if you take Ambien and mix it with alcohol, do you think that might be good or do you think that might be bad? Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I have to be called names. Something tells me you are related to Mr. Bryson since you are defending so feverishly. Mind you now, 'related' does NOT mean you have to be next of kin; you can also be affiliated with him as a colleague, friend, etc. That too is a relation in the manner as I have described.
    But hey, I am sorry if you are offended with my statements and you do not agree with me. My attempt at being facetious has seriously affected your emotional IQ so as to resort to name calling and general characterization. Since I am not a public figure, I am free of public perception, but Mr. Bryson is not.
    Please see to it that you take a moment to find out what it is that strikes your nerve so easily as a couple of sentences that I post so that it does not make you so irate that you would physically strike out at someone that is close to you. Or worse, you strike out at a stranger (such as me) and that individual is 6'3" and 260 lbs and has very special skillsets so as to defend himself from a half-ass attack from someone such as you.

    I assure you I am not a threat, so there is no need to call me names from the safety of your computer. It is a demonstration of your cowardice.

    Those that are friends with Dr. Chris: Please extend my heartfelt apologies to him with best intentions on him getting well and overcoming his mental deficiencies...So sad.

    PS: Ask him what he meant by "lew"...I am still at a loss at what he meant by that...Or ask him if Newsvine screws up his spelling? Or was he THAT pissed off at me that he lost his ability to spell correctly?

    :-/

      #3.9 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:55 PM EDT

      Your pet is a she also known as a bitch not a dog. You have horses and mares,bulls and cows,rams and ewes ,dogs and bitches also men and bitches understand. Take sick leave and learn something many people take medications for neurological disorders and are not SOB's. understand oooookkkkk!

        #3.10 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:57 PM EDT

        YEAH! Wait, wha?

        ???

        :-/

          #3.11 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 7:05 PM EDT
          Comment author avatarKamis Deweyvia Facebook

          Semantics aside, the guy was not drunk or high. He had a seizure. There was an accident. His insurance will pay for the damages, but since he wasn't doing anything illegal (people can get into accidents while sober) it makes no sense for charges to be pressed. It makes sense for him to resign if he's concerned about his health ... anyone would want to take a break after an event like this! So what if he's a politician? It might also make sense for him to not drive for a while as they address the seizure issue.

          • 2 votes
          #3.12 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 7:51 PM EDT

          All right, for Kamis sake, because it was delivered in a non-argumentative tone, I will refrain from suspecting him of drinking and driving...I was only being facetious since a lot of people draw parallels to what someone would do while drinking and driving.

          If Mr. Bryson indeed has seizures, I hope him a speedy diagnosis with a prompt recovery. It cannot be easy having such an affliction.

            #3.13 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 8:36 PM EDT
            Reply

            Does not even come close to Dick Cheney shooting someone!

            • 5 votes
            Reply#4 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:12 PM EDT

            no it doesn't...

            but then, Cheney didn't shoot the guy again and then run down the road and shoot someone else either.

            • 12 votes
            #4.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:41 PM EDT

            LMAO! THAT was a funny analogy!!!

            • 4 votes
            #4.2 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:17 PM EDT
            Reply

            Does anyone really think an obama insider is going to face charges or punishment for anything? That Dingbat Pelosi will be out screaming its a GOP witch hunt.

            • 11 votes
            Reply#5 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:16 PM EDT

            Wrongo Bucko!

            • 1 vote
            #5.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:22 PM EDT
            Reply

            Nothing like politicizing something and attaching it to someone that it doesn't even involve proudamericanveteranasshat.

            • 5 votes
            Reply#6 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:30 PM EDT

            He would not have resigned if it was only a seizure. He would have taken a medical leave. What was he doing in crack central???

            • 6 votes
            Reply#7 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 1:31 PM EDT

            toxicology results from a blood test given to Bryson. Officials didn't reveal what it contained.Authorities previously said if the test came back clean, it was unlikely charges would be filed against Bryson

            I would assume his toxicology results came back positive, so we all can imagine what he was doing there. He also might have been seeking advice on commerce..

            • 2 votes
            #7.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 2:20 PM EDT

            Drug Dealers are very much involved in Interstate Commerce.....Even the ones that cook and sell in their home town....All the ingredients get trucked in from everywhere...

              #7.2 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 3:30 PM EDT

              Now the Republican Controlled SCOTUS will force you to buy your METH and pay your mandated tax on those drugs.

                #7.3 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:02 PM EDT

                @-Sam,

                Well you assumed wrong didn't you? And you don't even have the manliness to apologize and admit you were wrong. You too go on ignore for sheer stupidity.

                • 1 vote
                #7.4 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:24 PM EDT

                As do you for being an arrogant ass!

                  #7.5 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:50 PM EDT
                  Reply

                  wonder what the fine men and women of the San Gabriel police dept are going to buy with the nice little check they received (aka contribution)..I'm just kidding folks relax..I do hope he is ok and in better health "wink"

                    Reply#8 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 4:44 PM EDT

                    @VH Navy,

                    A rubber ducky in a bath tub is not a navy. LOL Your lame accusations are stupid. Period. "wink"

                    • 1 vote
                    #8.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:25 PM EDT
                    Reply

                    ...... and he walks.

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#9 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 4:58 PM EDT
                    Comment author avatarKamis Deweyvia Facebook

                    If he had a seizure, charges don't need to be pressed. Insurance exists to cover the damages, end of story. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

                      #9.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 7:53 PM EDT
                      Reply

                      Can't expect people in government to be held accountable for their actions or hit and run accidents.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#10 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 4:59 PM EDT

                      Actually, local cops love to catch a high up fed actually dirty with a DUI. In this case, the actual cause being a first time seizure, most prosecutors will give a pass since they are unlikely to get any kind of jail time. As long as no person was injured and the damages are paid, the hit & run is not really worth pursuing, since it requires that the person know (or should have known) they hit someone and still left the seen of the accident. Arguably, as a result of the seizure, the Secretary would not have known.

                      Anyone deciding to use this defense for their next little game of crash & dash had better have a world class neurologist ready to testify, complete with a battery of test results.

                      • 2 votes
                      #10.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:09 PM EDT
                      Reply

                      If his toxicology report were positive, I'm sure some reporter would have found a way to leak it.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#11 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:01 PM EDT

                      Pathetic.....why resign? obama must go!

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#12 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:05 PM EDT

                      COVER-UP!!!

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#13 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:37 PM EDT

                      A few years ago, Ted Kennedy had a similar seizure. It was subsequently discovered that he had brain cancer which killed him. If that happens to Bryson, I don't suppose any of you right-wing nut cases would be interested in apologizing to the man for the slanderous statements you have made?

                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#14 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:44 PM EDT

                      Who would we tell??

                      Ted was such a wonderful person to pick, too...

                      Thanks for reminding us...

                        #14.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 5:49 PM EDT

                        @And Old Gator, you seem to have the reasoning power and eloquence of .... and old gator. None.

                        • 1 vote
                        #14.2 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:27 PM EDT

                        underemployed,

                        You are clearly trying to throw excrement to see how much sticks. You don't know anything about the people who posted that comments you disagree with.

                          #14.3 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:45 PM EDT
                          Reply

                          Getting old sucks. Glad to hear all were okay, and its only material damage done. "Things" can be repaired, replaced.

                          • 3 votes
                          Reply#15 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:01 PM EDT

                          A first seizure at Bryson's age could well portend some very serious medical problem. Too bad the GOP is so eaten up with hatrred and racism and just plain old trailer-park stupidity that they have no compassion for anyone. But what goes around comes around and you will get yours as well.

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#16 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:29 PM EDT

                          Hey Chris! I am a repubican. Why don't you take your meds and stop assuming that everyone that says a bad thing about a Dem is a white, trailer park living , haten life person. In fact YOU are the racist, hate filled person. Get a life and loosen up!

                          • 1 vote
                          #16.1 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:33 PM EDT
                          Reply

                          Yeah.. Lets Legalize Pot so everybody is a Freaking Pot Head.. Its OkAY. RGHT..

                          And my bald head is going to grow Hair. America is going to be another France..

                            Reply#17 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:32 PM EDT

                            The mighty O bails out another of his cronies.

                              Reply#18 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:42 PM EDT

                              Has his license been suspended until he has been seizure free for over a year? IF he had a seizure, he should not be driving until further notice from hisDr. Bet not!

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#19 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:47 PM EDT

                              Hey Chris, why don't you pull that big stick out of your butt?

                                Reply#20 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:48 PM EDT

                                he is guilty of a crime and should face the charges in a court of lawperiod.

                                if it were me or you,we would be in court.

                                it's high time poloticians face the the same rules we follow.

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#21 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 6:59 PM EDT

                                We would not be in court. We would be in jail waiting to go to court and our speedy trail would probally take about 8 to 9 months to go to trial. Most regular people can not afford to bond out of jail. If you live in the community and are not a flight risk the court is suppose to give you a PR bond but they do not. Counties make money on every person they have locked up in their local jails.

                                  #21.1 - Wed Jul 4, 2012 6:04 PM EDT
                                  Reply

                                  Winston-Salem NC charged a local state senator for killing his drunk neighbor when he (senator)suffered some kind of fit and crossed the center line to hit his neighbor head on and killed him. One time the drunk was doin the right thing and got killed by a sober but impared driver. They found the senator guilty after he got out of the hospital.

                                    Reply#22 - Tue Jul 3, 2012 8:45 PM EDT

                                    'Sober or slammer' unless you are in a high postion with the goverment. We just had a drunk driving prosecuter released after being pulled over for DUI here in South Carolina. ( He was charged a few years earlier in Nroth Carolina and convicted of a lesser charge. )

                                    It was all captured on the police dash cam.

                                    He was just charged with open container which " was not his drink " and released to drive away.

                                    He told the police officer 'good job officer. ' as he drunkenly drove away.

                                      Reply#23 - Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:59 PM EDT
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