You really don't know that Trayvon threw the first punch BEFORE Zimmerman threatened him.

"Stand your Ground" does not apply when you are flat on your back getting beaten UFC style.

Zimmerman did stalk and certainly said some words. Travon being no angel and youth rage took it's course. I doubt Zimmerman would have had the balls to swing on Travon first and really took an A whippin. None of it had to happen, youth rage, stupidity to not wait for the Cops is on Zimmerman.

It will be a hard murder conviction and FL can't convict real murder's like Casey Anthony. They have no prayer.

If GMakebelieve would lie to a judge in an attempt to protect his assets, he would certainly be capable of lying to the SPD, which he didn't have much respect for, to cover his a**!

The fact is, Traygone didn't have injuries or blood from GFabricator on him, to support ZGunnman's story.

Happy 4th All...and use common sense when playing with fireworks...3 people in my hometown have lost digits...don't be the next!

Self inflicted.

we now have the accused with a broken nose, bleeding from the back of his head, and a dead teenager ' no other witnesses, except those that said Martin was on top of him; Zimmerman claims self defense; case over, martin can not testify, he is dead.

Hayabusa-1004771

can you PLEASE stfu??? We know Zimmerman chased him, how do we know Zimmerman didnt grab him?? Jesus... Stop acting like you were there.

Yes please do. You weren't there either. What we DO KNOW is that George was punched in the nose. That meets the LEGAL requirement to exercise Self Defense. Whether Trayvon swung first or last at this point is unprovable. Unless some video of the actual fight comes out showing George swing first the prosecution is SOL and can't prove a thing beyond BOTH were entitled to defend themselves. That makes it a wrap and a walk.

Boy you people will grab onto anything to support your cause.

Guess you need a video of TM actually hitting GZ before you would believe he assaulted him.

Guess you didn't hear the testimony of the paramedic who treated him right after the shooting who said, on the stand at his bond hearing, that his nose was likely broken. THIS WAS THE DAY OF, NOT THE DAY AFTER.

But of course those who have already tried and convicted him will twist any evidence to suit their own version of what happened.

Regardless of what anything "thinks", its looking more and more like all the physical evidence is backing up GZ's account of what happened. Got reasonable doubt all over it.

The plot thickens...

We do not KNOW all the facts..... we only KNOW what we have heard from second hand accounts. I do not believe a person who is taking either of the two types of medicines he was prescribed, should be carrying a gun. I KNOW I would not appreciate a strange man following me and/or confronting me..... I can only GUESS how a seventeen year old might react.

If Treyvon had been there to commit a crime (like a burglary) then the "stand your ground" law might be applicable. Since he was an INVITED guest who was minding his own business, then why would he not be entitled to stand HIS ground, when being followed and/or confronted by a strange adult man, who was not a security guard or a police officer?

This day after medical report, does not hold much weight as he could have had someone hit him in the face a second time, prior to going to the Dr. (I am not saying he did, but we have no idea of his actions do we?)

I also do not understand why the police chief was fired, when it was reported that the decision NOT to charge Zimmerman came from the State? It sounds like he was used as a scapegoat for someone elses actions.

Hopefully, all this will come out at trial....if they EVER get on with it!

Community watch volunteer myself, but we don't carry guns, though some of us do have a CCP.

If we do come across someone we've never seen, we DO ask what their business is. I suspect the kid got smartsy. And from there, things escalated quickly. All the kid had to do (probably) was tell him he was visiting his parent. (I doubt this happened). Then GZ could have made a call to confirm.

Smart azz "it's all about me" attitude of the kid probably got to where things did.

And sorry, I STILL don't see where RACE is an issue.

All you folks who THINK you KNOW what happened are simply full of it; you know what you want to be believe because of your preconceived ideas. Wait for the trial and ALL the evidence before making the decision, but most of you probably won't believe the hard evidence, any way.

What we DO KNOW is that George was punched in the nose. That meets the LEGAL requirement to exercise Self Defense.

It certainly does not. If I grab you, and you strike me in the nose, do I have the right to shoot you? Of course not. What matters is who was the aggressor when determining self defense. We would expect wounds on Zimmerman, unless he was being aggressor to an invalid. The fact that Zimmerman had a "likely-broken" nose says absolutely nothing other than the fact that Trayvon fought back. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would also add that there was a very obvious lack of LUMPS on Zimmerman's head. Those minor cuts on Zimmerman's head don't prove that his head was being pounded on cement. In fact, the lack of lumps pretty much disproves it. You can get such cuts from scuffling in the GRASS, because there are often jagged little pebbles that protrude from the soil.

since Zimmerman was Hispanic what do "white people" have to do with this story?

Barlow - this was not about race. Zimmerman is both hispanic and Black. If all you see is a race issue, then you have succumbed to anti-racism racism and have become a puppet to other users.

Zimmerman got out of his vehicle when told by the police not to be following Trayvon. He then confronted Trayvon like he was the police and then he got his but whipped. He then pulled a gun and shot Trayvon. If Zimmerman had just obeyed the police and stayed in his vehicle Trayvon would be alive today and Zimmerman would not be charged with his murder. It does not take an Einstein to see and figure that out.

OPCS: I too was a neighborhood watch person, and the one thing I'm curious about was whether George identified himself to Trayvon as a neighborhood watch person. We were told to "observe and report" in the case of suspicious activity. As far as asking someone we didn't know about their business, that part was optional, but at the same time, were told that if we do make an encounter with someone who isn't a resident of the community, to identify ourselves as neighborhood watch volunteers, and politely ask someone about what they are there for. If that person was being beligerent and tried to provoke an attack or came after us, we could use Mace as a defensive weapon to get away from the situation, and call police. I guess we won't really know the conversation that started all this, because it takes two to tango, and one of those two is dead and buried.

Hmm more misinformed people spouting off nonsense from Law & Order / CSI / ect..

GZ is going to walk on Murder 2, they might of got him on negligent homicide or manslaughter, no way on Murder 2.

BTW, someone walking up to you and punching you DOES meet the requirements for a "self defense" plea in Florida. Stand your ground is a law, it's been passed in FL and is in effect as we speak. Stand your ground states that you do not have to attempt retreat or evade the situation should you feel your life threatened during an assault. GZ is not required to run away, nor inform TM anything. GZ is not required to evade the situation. Nothing GZ did that evening is illegal, walking / driving, following someone, carrying a weapon are all legal. Sure he was stupid, stupidity isn't a crime or half the posters on this board would be in jail (likely more).

The prosecution will have to somehow prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that GZ felt his life was not in danger, or that TM didn't attack him. Their not going to be able to prove that first one, any argument they could provide would immediately be dispelled by GZ stating "I felt threatened". Thus their only hope for conviction is to prove, again beyond a reasonable doubt, that TM didn't attack GZ. The medical evidence is supporting GZ more and more.

Also, GZ walks in as an innocent man. He is not required to prove his innocence, his defense lawyer only needs to demonstrate that there is a possible (not even probable) scenario where GZ was attacked by TM and in self defense killed TM. SYG law then applies and the jury must acquit. Even if the Prosecution could get a media biased jury to convict, the Judge could then throw out the guilty verdict on grounds of infeasibility. GZ would also get appeals, and you can be 100% sure that it would get tossed out on appeal for contaminated jury, due to all the media BS.

Please excuse me DB Akron, but I read that Zimmerman's racial makeup is Hispanic and white. Although Hispanic is not a race, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I believe Zimmerman's mother is from Peru and his father is white. If you listen to his comments about black people in his neighborhood, you get an idea of his thought processes toward black people and if they are racist or not, your call.

Does this mean if someone broke my nose and make a few scratches on me, I can pull a gun on them?

If you are in the fight with someone, you will likely get injure. Does it justify enough to use gun to kill them? I can see high school kids do this next, they are "in danger of being beaten up" and can use "stand their ground" to protect themselves.

@Cuong,

If your in FL, and someone starts hitting you, you are legally allowed to pull a gun and shoot them.

That is what SYG means.

Note that someone has to actually be assaulting you, you can't randomly pull your gun because you thought someone might attack you. They need to either be hitting you, or threatening to kill / hit you.

jeeeze louise!, lol.

ok i heard the voice crap. they played the tapes, one of screaming bloody murder, and then in return "we" hear GZ with a loop saying "help" loudly. uuuh, even then... its a possibility.

i also heard a couple witnesses change testimony, shortly after. GZ was on his back, and TM was doing the beating. HOWEVER... the ONLY reason why they were revoked from the start, was for misleading the court on finances. and considered when he sought shelter due to all the attention (like who the hell wouldnt in his shoes), and tossed in possible bail jumping for good measure.

TM was a city kid. he (my guess) knew GZ was following him, before GZ himself did. now me.... if i cought wind i was being followed, by some guy in a SUV... who when i try to shake cutting across back apt lots... guy gets out... c'mon, lol. its the oldest trick in the book. TM jumps GZ. naturally self defence on TM's part by GZ's actions, and not identifying himself as a block watch person. yet, being GZ was all of a suddeny getting the @!$%# beat out of him... i can see him screaming like a girl, and pulling a gun. then pulling the trigger.

thats the way i see it as a possibility.

GZ, can then be looked at both 2 ways, as well TM. GZ felt he could get a moment in fame, keeping up with who he felt was a bad guy. TM thought a bad guy was.... who knows? (people are f'd up, and who wouldnt take a defensive action in such a case)? GZ was also within his right to follow TM but without taking any action. there is no evidence to prove, or disprove a lot of theories.. mine is no less a guess than the next guys, but maybe a different possible perspective.

"The Day after".............and Zimm refused to see specialist.........then lies about money, then speaks in code lying more, hides facts about passport,wife lies about the same issues, laughs in the face of hoodie supporters and hoodie haters when he makes comment on not being seen if he wore a hoodie.......The walk through testimony making it up as he went along....

Oh sure...believe Zimm........I...don't ...think...so!

All this really proves is that Zimmerman had no head trauma - that, in fact, the injuries to his head were minor. Therefore, it seems more likely now than ever that his head was NOT beaten on the sidewalk. I stand by my original theory: Zimmerman walks up behind Trayvon, shoves him and asks him what he's doing around here. Then, frightened and in self-defense, Trayvon punches him in the nose and Zimmerman "falls backwards" (Zimmerman's own words) and his head hits the sidewalk. Pissed off, Zimmerman gets up, pulls out his gun and Trayvon starts screaming for his life. Zimmerman then puts his hands over Trayvon's mouth and nose (again, Zimmerman's own words) to try to shut him up. Finally, in depraved indifference for human life (that's 2nd degree murder, guys), Zimmerman shoots Trayvon while he's screaming for help. That fits the evidence and is far more likely than anything that has come out of Zimmerliar's mouth.

of course it was about race... a black teenager in a hoodie, armed with Skittles and tea was racing back home to watch a ball game but he wasn't fast enough for Sheriff George (barney) Zimmerman to keep from drawing down on him. Sheriff Zimmie don't like no *!&#?* to trespass on his territory. Besides, Sheriff Zimmie almost got a broken snout and some scratches on his head. Hell, in Florida you can kill a kid no matter what the age or infraction is and no jury is gonna convict ya.

I stand by my original theory:

And that's where it will end, because it's all your theory and really has nothing to do with the details as laid out by the eye witness that saw Travon on top of the chest of Zimmerman, has nothing to do with the position of the bodies when fired, and has nothing to do with the blood splatter or gun powder as found by the actual evidence.

They have a witness that puts Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, they have repeated cries of help coming from "the guy on the bottom" that was described as fitting Zimmerman's description. It's almost like you're just making things up to fit some conspiracy theory you'd like to believe is true...sad.

This article does not prove that Zimmerman was the "victim" in his murder of Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman had no slurred speech or dizziness as a result of his injuries, the report notes,

The above event is strange.

For many people, loud music is sufficient to produce a headache.

Repeatedly, if Zimmerman's head was slammed to the ground as he states, it seems that a headache or dizziness would have occurred.

"nausea?"

Zimmerman may have experienced nausea, maybe he did not.

In a court of law, Zimmerman has proved himself to be a liar.

It is hard to believe anything that George says.

O’Mara added that the pictures show that Trayvon was taller than the store clerk, who O’Mara said is closer to Zimmerman's height.

Because Trayvon was tall, does not justify his death.

O'Mara wants to talk about size. On February 26, 2012, Zimmerman was considerably heavier than Trayvon. Zimmerman appears to be on a weight loss diet to hoodwink a jury into believing he was a "tiny little fellow" being beaten by a big, tall, black man.

O'Mara is grasping at straws.

There is no justification for this killing.

there is one 911 call that clearly records the sounds of the shrill screaming. can't they use some sort of machine to decipher who's screaming for their life? if it was zimmerman, or trayvon? because, we surely can not believe a word that comes out of these man's mouth after lying to t court. no one knows the truth but zimmerman, but this man is a proven liar. he's going to say anything to protect himself. as he tried to protect his new money. he's slimy. no character. can't be trusted. he stalked this teenager, the teen knew it, was uncomfortable, called his girlfriend and told her, i wouldn't be surprised if zimmerman approached him with his gun drawn. shame there's no eye witness. but the audios from 911 call should be analyzed.

why would a judge set bail after lying to the court? i can't see any judge letting this go with a slap on the wrist.

Because Trayvon was tall, does not justify his death.

-----------------------------------------------------------

That's the part that I don't get: O'Mara puts this out there so people could "see what he looked like on the night of the incident"... ? Is O'Mara kidding? Was that a smart move as an attorney, really?

SO... any rapes that occur because of the 'slut-wear-way' the women dressed - they should all get a pass then, right? I mean - either what you wear matters or it doesn't. IF O'Mara is trying to say that this kid was a towering hooded threat, then that only makes it seem like a short bloke with a firearm thinks the gun he's packing makes him equally towering.... isn't that a dangerous presidence to enter into a case if you're the defense attorney?

I'd rather wait for the trail though instead of speculate about what happened that night: some of these posts really make me shake my head - both FOR and AGAINST.

kimvo47, seriously? you can believe zimmerman's story after he lied to a judge? he's saying anything to protect his butt. he's lost all credibility.

i pray the prosecution has that one 911 call where you clear hear all the screaming and they have a method to decipher if it's zimmerman's or trayvon's voice. this kid calls his girlfriend telling her someone's following him. zimmerman's the aggressor with a gun. a court lying aggressor with a gun. fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. he's slime.

he had no business stalking this kid and engaging him, none. his racist paranoia got the better of him and now it's time for the prosecutors to pull a rabbit out of the hat to see that justice is served. r.i.p. trayvon.

again, he simply was not following this teenager. he was on a mission.

Amazing how minorities like to keep saying this was due to "racism" but yet THEY are the only ones bringing race into the discussion. They are SO intended on making this a racist event that even facts must not get in the way. So I guess George Zimmerman banged his nose against the concrete JUST so he can have an "excuse" to shoot a black man? And he banged the back of his head on the concrete JUST to justify shooting a black man?

You ignorant people are amazing. Without knowing ANY facts you put together a sequence of events to MAKE this a racist event. Then as facts come out you twist the facts any way possible to make your story STILL appear plausible. But when the facts cause you to have to change your sequence of events doesn't that make you wonder EVEN FOR A SECOND you might be wrong? Don't you think a RATIONAL person would wait until ALL the facts come out during the trial to make a determination on what they think happened?

Only an unintelligent, and racist, individual would make an assumption of what happened without knowing. Why don't you even TRY to look somewhat intelligent by simply waiting to hear actual FACTS before you spew your unintelligent and irrational opinions??

The racist thing is not Zimmerman, it the police. Why do you people think that racist accusation is about Zimmerman. How many times have people commented about if the role was reversed the kid would have been arrested, and think about this one his father was a judge and why was there a meeting high up then Zimmerman was released.

Why do you people think that racist accusation is about Zimmerman.

Because the media started this circus by doctoring a phone call made to the police by removing the part where they asked Zimmerman if the person was black or white and quickly getting it through all forms of the media so the community would get outraged and cry out racism (which it did).

Because the majority of the postings say that Zimmerman was "on the hunt" and "out to kill" a black kid that night (forgetting that he himself is part black because of his great grandfather, that he fought on BEHALF of the black homeless man that was beat up by the Sanford Police department and that he and his wife both tutor many kids, both black and white, in their neighborhood on the weekends).

Zimm started to describe what he was doing to Trayvon at re enactment.......Says....."he put his hand over his nose and mouth, "...then zimm says Trayvon put hand over Zimm nose and mouth...busted, Zimm was describing the event as it was.....how he put his hand over Trayvons mouth as we heard Trayvon screaaming for help, that panicked Zimm...he couldn't shut Trayvon up!.Bang!.

The prosecution already has this evidence and I'm sure it plays a HUGE role in why he is being prosecuted. He is a liar. Head bashed in to the point of wearing a diaper his brother said. If he to stated as much then the findings say he had NO trauma at all to the back of the head which they obviously do then he lied about it. Which means he lied about everything because we now know he was re arrested for LYING to the court under oath along with his "wife" about finances and an extra pass port. ; ]

Besides lying about Travon period. [.]..

Again, like I said before as my readers know his lawyer fears him starting his sentence early as I knew he has but he wont ever be going home. And he now regrets his lawyers strategy of pushing the case out for a year. ; ]

Cheers

Zimmerman doesnt have to prove anything, the prosecutor does, and she cant prove it didnt happen just the way Zimmernan said it did with the evidence she has.

The clerk at the store, about Zimmerman's size, didn't appear threatened by Travon. He didn't follow Travon out of the store, (who knows if the clerk is armed. I might want to be). But no problems in the store.

Zimmerman, armed, stalked him, without any prior contact with him.

What was the threat that Zimmerman perceived that the clerk did not? Is it important to look at the background of the clerk? Is he/she a minority? Did he/she view Travon as a threat or not when he/she had direct contact with him and Zimmerman did not. Perhaps if the the clerk had perceived a threat, a call to police would have been placed. Was that call placed?

Let's look at the two situations. one dealt with the person, and one dealt with a perception. I wasn't there, but the clerk was, and George was, and Travon was.

They have a witness that puts Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, they have repeated cries of help coming from "the guy on the bottom" that was described as fitting Zimmerman's description.

That witness recanted his statement. Guess you conveniently "forgot" about that...

Facts are facts and even though sooo many of you choose to not believe factual evidence in turn MAKING up your own shall be sorely disappointed. BECAUSE lying has been established as pattern. He has hung himself out to dry before the wash. ; ]

The TRUTH is easy to remember because it actually happened. A lie is hard to keep in order because it didn't happen and is made up fantasy. Lies between two or more is that much harder.. Those that believe there own lies are deceived by there own delusions ; ]

Cheers

You aren't going to get a jury free of dumb hicks that love killing, he will probably get a hung jury.

Its only in a twisted republican mind that its acceptable to fire a gun and kill someone in self defense but its not ok to throw a punch to someone who has been chasing and stalking you.

Any republican that can HONESTLY tell me that if that was their son that died in the street and it took the police three days to figure out who he was, even after his father had reported him missing, would you really accept that Zimmerman was innocent if it was your child that died that way? If you answer yes than you don't care about your child so I already know your answers. You all hang yourself on that point.

Hmmmmm, I'm surprised the headline doesn't read,,,

Medical report day after Trayvon Martin death says the "White Hispanic" Zimmerman nose 'likely broken'

And wouldn't it be refreshing to see the same outrage from Liberals about the death of our Border Agent Brian Terry? I guess the Liberal media can't play the Liberal race card on this one.

Why was Zimmerman out of his car, following the boy? He was told, by the police "he doesn't have to do that.

It was a well deserved broken nose, no matter who broke it.

l. The gentle CHOIRBOY LOOK (like the boy who tries to look innocent after he has pulled the pigtails of the girl sitting in front of him in the classroom)

.

2. The Strong self assured looking police cadet type (like what is seen in his re-enactment video at the scene the next day with the investigators. There, standing tall, he relates what happened the night of the shooting .)

.

3. The quick tempered reactionary (like when he threw a woman when he had been hired once to be a security bouncer at a drinking party---when he confronted and pushed a police officer at a bar----when he argued and pushed his ex-financee who took out a restraining order against him. These illustrate how quickly Zimmerman's temper can flare up.)

Of the 3 ways Zimmerman represents himself (see above)------

I think GZ will use #1 (the CHOIR BOY look) at the trial.

"Yes please do. You weren't there either. What we DO KNOW is that George was punched in the nose. That meets the LEGAL requirement to exercise Self Defense."

No it does not. You can't go out and pick a fight and then claim self defense.

"there is one 911 call that clearly records the sounds of the shrill screaming. can't they use some sort of machine to decipher who's screaming for their life?"

No, Stop watching CSI on TV

Likely broken? or broken... not the same thing.

Personally I cannot wait for the trial when most of you will be mistaken. Zimmerman can not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. Also too many of you really don't know the actual transcript of the 911 call. That means without the editing. There is proof he had a broken nose and considerable cuts on the back of his head at least requiring butterflies. No the police did not tell him to stop pursuing, a dispatcher suggested it. BUT it was Travon who made the mistake of attacking Zimmerman. Still very sad.

I think a LOT of you people, made up your mind, from the 1st ALTERED msnbc report,

and can't, WON'T change your mind no matter what facts come out !!!

@25Walker

and a drug for hyperactivity, Adderall

Adderall is a speed. My kid was on it when she was younger and when I picked up it's generic form from the pharmacy the name on the bottle was Methamphetamine Salt. I have known adults to use it for it's speed qualities, and other adults have used it to lose weight fast. Ever heard someone say "that woman or man is on the Jenny Crank diet". Before some of you that have tried it for weight loss and it wasn't successful jump my ass, some cases like low thyroid can make it impossible for Meth/Crank/Adderall/Speed to make you lose weight.

It would make sense of why he was losing weight so rapidly. He killed Trayvon at the end of Feb and he was prescribed it at the beginning of feb, taken improperly can have dire consequences, sometimes even properly taken by adults can cause some strange irrational thoughts/behavior. I worked in a mental health clinic for a few years and it wasn't standard practice to give adults adderall because of the addictive traits but also because of the side affects that were found more in adults. I am betting you any money he is some kind of speed freak that wanted to take it legally..

Adderall is more popular with the college kids because they are able to sit for several hours "tweeking" on homework. I had a client that was hooked on it so she could focus for longer hours on her homework and every term she would bump her credits and her adderall dose.

Let me see now. The doctor's medical report said his nose was "most likely broken". That is like being pregnant-- you are or you aren't. So was his nose broken or wasn't it.

And the wounds on the back of his head-- apparently the extent of the wounds was a figment of someone's imagination.

That medical report sure makes GZ and his attorneys look like plum fools! But didn't we suspect that before the medical report came out?

Most likely and IS are two different things.

Susie

The medical report is from a prosecution witness, if the prosecutor is going to say her evidence and her witnesses are full of crap, she might as well drop the charges. Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I want you to disregard all of my witness statements and medical reports, do you really think she is going to do that? The injuries are the injuries and they will be stipulated to, there is no question as to GZ's injuries.

Umm guys ... your idiots, seriously idiots.

The nose isn't made of bone, it doesn't "break" cleanly nor in a way x-rays can verify 100%. It's made of cartilage which is much softer / more flexible. Without cutting into his nose "most likely" is the closest thing your going to get from a doctor on any sort of official statement. Especially if GZ or the ambulance medics had already set it back into place to heal properly.

As for the above ignorant statements about someone hitting you not being grounds for killing them, your not reading. In FL if someone assaults you (punching someone in the nose is assault) or is placing your life under immediate threat, you are entitled to use lethal force to protect yourself. So yes, punching someone is grounds for getting shot. Is it a good law? Who knows, it's designed to make bad guys think twice about robing / raping or otherwise hurting people. It was never envisioned to be applied to a domestic situation like this.

George Zimmerman wants out of Seminole County

AGAIN?

LOL....(+_+)

not really news. other than O'mara wants to be sure he gets a little more money.

The Itsy Bitsy Spider - YouTube

Actually, I do want to balance the song with recognition that you have never said terrible and gross things to people. Most of our discussions have been like what you see below at #2.2.

Interesting exchange from Monday:

icurhoods

joann, I believe Trayvon punched or shoved Zimmerman causing him to fall backwards into that small tree in video causing injury to the back of his head, maybe by branches of trunk, he lost his footing, took off after Trayvon, grabbed him by the hoodie to take him down, (screaming starts) Zimmerman on top. Thats why he has those tiny little marks on his head and no trauma that is conducive to having your head repeatedly banged on pavement.

#276.23 - Mon Jul 2, 2012 8:15 PM EDT

Jo-An-4354969

icurhoods,

I think you have something there! My thought, all a long, has been that GZ tried to "detain" Trayvon, likely reaching out to keep him there until the police came, and Trayvon freaked out, as I would, and fought to get away...GZ falling backward and scratching his head on the tree makes perfect sense!

Thanks for the fresh new twist!

#276.24 - Mon Jul 2, 2012 9:03 PM EDT

By the way Icurhoods has been an EMT for 15 years.

yahtc

By the way Icurhoods has been an EMT for 15 years.

I don't care if they were born an EMT... That doesn't make him a police investigator. Their speculation doesn't even match with ANY of the facts. Witness statements have BOTH parties on the ground with Trayvon on top. Both engaged in some form of physical altercation. There is NO question that George was bloodied that night during the physical altercation. EMS and police both noted bloodied nose as well as swollen lip. Spin it how you want. The law states "reasonable belief of imminent serious injury" Tell us that Georges BELIEF was not reasonable.

Like it or not would you agree BOTH were entitled to defend themselves?

Like it or not would you agree the law is the law?

Like it or not do you agree that the courts can only prosecute based on the law as it is written at the time of the incident?

That law is FL Statute 776.

Their speculation doesn't even match with ANY of the facts.

Yes it does!

Icurhoods wrote-----

I believe Trayvon punched or shoved Zimmerman causing him to fall backwards into that small tree in video causing injury to the back of his head, maybe by branches of trunk, he lost his footing, took off after Trayvon, grabbed him by the hoodie to take him down, (screaming starts) Zimmerman on top. Thats why he has those tiny little marks on his head and no trauma that is conducive to having your head repeatedly banged on pavement.

To me, that explains the vertical cut on the back of George Zimmerman's head.

trust,

If Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin physically, then Martin does have the right to defend himself against that threat. That nullifies ZiImmermans entire argument if proven to be true, because you cannot start an altercation, then claim self defense. It is counterintuitive.

I have said all along that there is no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman could not have attempted to detain Martin physically, which provoked Martin to defend himself against what would be percieved as a threat. There is nothing except for the killers word that it did not go that way. Everyone who talks about Trayvon attacking Zimmerman from behind, and all of the rest of the stupid stories to justify this killing are speculating just as much as I just did here. They are equally possible starts to the altercation at the scene. It is also undenyable that Zimmerman had no reason to be at the scene in the first place. He never had to be out of his car, he never had to follow Martin.

He chose to... choices have consequences.

Chris

In a real courtroom you dont get to speculate, you must offer proof of your allegations, you say there is no evidence to suggest that GZ could not have attempted to detain Martin physically, but you have no evidence that he did, the judge isnt going to let you say you "think it could have happened this way", you must offer proof. GZ is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

I can not get pass the fact that the police told him to back off and let them handle it. Plus, he pursued the kid. If you were pursued by someone on you way home and they did not identify his self as a law enforcement officer, then I would think you would act in self defense. I might punch and beat someone's head against the ground to protect myself too. That is why the stand your ground law is so screwed up. Two people get into an altercation without any witnesses and the one that survives, calls it self defense. To me that is murder.

So you think violence is the answer? Thats what Trayvon thought to. Nobody was a threat to Trayvon. All he had to do was say where he was going. The police were already on the way. Both were idiots that night and it was clearly Trayvon who started it. Idiot Zimmer should have stayed in the car, but getting out was not illegal. Stupid, but not illegal.

Well, OldJet, that is because when the police say they will "handle it" that means show up 45 minutes later and take a report - at least where I live, that is all you can hope for. I would pay absolutely no attention to the concept that the police might actually protect anyone. At best they are reactive, write reports, and if any one is stupid enough to get caught (which many of these thugs are), they will be given bail and probation 2 hours later. The worthless, broken justice system has created a very dangerous situation, and unfortunately, some innocent people may possibly die as a result (although I do not believe that is what happened in this case). But we will not be run over by thugs. No matter what.

OldJetsFan,

I guess we need to shout it from the rooftop.

THE POLICE DIDN'T TELL HIM CRAP--A 911 OPERATOR IS NOT THE POLICE AND HAS NO AUTHORITY TO TELL YOU TO DO ANYTHING.

HE DIDN'T PURSUE TM, HE WAS FOLLOWING HIM--AGAIN, NOT AGAINST THE LAW.

So, with that out of the picture--what do you have now?

OldJetsFan

I can not get pass the fact that the police told him to back off and let them handle it.

Mind telling us what case you are referring to? I don't recall the dispatcher saying anything about the police would handle it. Please provide the link to that transcript or recording in the State of FL vs George Zimmerman.

. Plus, he pursued the kid.

Testimony has already been given that the choice of words was poor. There was no pursuit at the time Trayvon punched George.

If you were pursued by someone on you way home and they did not identify his self as a law enforcement officer, then I would think you would act in self defense.

I would dial 9-1-1 not my friend 2 hours away. Now you would have George impersonate a LEO? Self defense against what exactly?

. I might punch and beat someone's head against the ground to protect myself too.

And likely end up just like Trayvon. That is the problem these days. Everyone wants to come out swinging rather than saying hello. Just realize that EVERY time someone just comes out swinging adds to the credibility of "reasonable belief of imminent bodily injury".

That is why the stand your ground law is so screwed up.

That much I think everyone can agree with... except Jeb Bush and the fools who signed the legislation into law.

To me that is murder.

Homicide, manslaughter at worst under Florida law. The way things look at the moment Corey will be lucky to get George for littering (failure to pick up his brass) on the shooting... The way things are proceeding it doesn't even look like she can get him on the bail issue.

If this case goes to trial and Zimmerman is found innocent which is likely there will be riots like no other. If the State of FL is smart and reviews the evidence they have it will be obvious they cannot win. If they drop it now it will be less likely to have additional violence.

If it is a go and the State loses let the additional blood be on their hands.

Not the state, the rioters will have blood on their hands (not the first time).

And that is why the state DA didn't prosecute originally. They didn't have a case and he (think it's a he) didn't want an embarrassment on their hands. Then all the media hate about "why hasn't he been arrested? MURDERER!!!!!!!" caught fire. The state Governor called that DA, then later a "special prosecutor" was appointed to handle the case, basically a fall guy / girl who isn't in a political position and thus won't take the political fall out.

People keep claiming murder like if they say it enough they'll believe it. When looking at it objectively it's pretty obvious what happened. GZ was out, saw an older teenager (NOT A FCKING KID) with a hoodie on walking around, he didn't recognize that teenager. Followed that teenager, called 911 dispatcher. While talking to dispatcher kid noticed he was being followed, started to run. Dispatcher told GZ not to follow, GZ stopped following (people ALWAYS get this part wrong), turn around started walking back to this car. GZ told dispatcher on phone to have the police meet him at the mailbox near where his car was, or to have them call him when they got there.

The above is on record and verified. What isn't verified is what happened next. GZ claims that TM jumped out knocked him to the ground and was give him a beat down. GZ reached for his gun and shot TM through the chest.

Current injuries are,

TM: scraps and cuts on this knuckles. Defense experts say their consistent with punching, Prosecution experts say they might not be from fighting.

GZ: cuts and bleeding on back of head, injuries on face and possible broken nose. These have been verified by medical authorities, both on the scene and from a doctors report the next day. The police didn't have their medical people do a report on GZ, the ambulance medics did though. Defense claims those injuries are from TM hitting GZ and are consistent with their version of the events. Prosecution has no explanation for those injuries.

Sorry guys, this is looking like a pretty clear case of someone getting jumped. TM has no injuries on his body other then the chest bullet wound and the scrapped knuckles. No abrasions on this writs / arms, no bruises on the body or face. No indication that GZ actually hit TM at any point in time. TM wasn't a kung-fu master, he didn't kung-fu his way through a fight with GZ. Any fight that would of happened would of had some form of bruise / abrasion on TM, if GZ threw any punch's then they would of left a mark. GZ on the other hand is covered with marks and injuries. Leaves only one possibly scenario, TM got the jump on GZ and GZ never got a chance to defend himself or fight back. This would of been a classic beat down, had GZ not had a gun then TM would of beat the snot out of him. GZ did have a gun and TM is now dead.

You mean ,if someone jumps you and starts whipping your butt,it's okay to shoot and kill him?According to the Fl.no retreat clause.Wow,Ill never go to florida again.Where has chivalry and honor gone.

I'm sorry - what is "likely broken?" Where x-rays taken? And when was this nose "likely broken?"

It could have been six months ago or when he was a child - x-rays would have shown if freshly "likely broken"

What a bunch of crap - if you have a broken nose - even the least would have been a piece of tape

Actually Zimmerman's nose looks pretty straight to me

I had a broken nose as a child, still have a small hump, my son had a broken nose and had to have it reset

LIKELY BROKEN IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL DIAGNOSIS

If you jump on someone and start beating them, that is called assault. Slamming one's head into the sidewalk constitutes more that simple assault. Maybe Travon should have checked to see if Zimmerman was armed before attacking him. When assalting a person In a concealed carry state, one must be more careful of who they attack. I guess George would have been more honorable if he were dead. He had a tough choice to make while having his head slammed in the sidewalk. What would you have done? Let him kill you or give you brain damage. It was a tough choice on a moments notice. I wouldnt want to have to make that choice. Im sure having one's head slammed into concrete would give one the right of self defense. To bad there werent any cops around to help. They are always 20 minutes away and you need help now. George was lucky he had his firearm or he might have been dead. He should never have been charged and the more of the actual facts that come out supports this. Dont go to Texas either. They dont like ass whippings here either. Good Luck

Thank you ac631...that's the joke to all this. Everyone is speculating what Zimmerman should or shouldn't do with someone bigger and stronger on his chest, having already punched him in the face and banging his head into the ground. I've even read where one person said Zimmerman should have shot Trayvon in the leg.

It's SO very easy to sit in the comfort of your home, typing away on your cozy keyboard about what someone should do when faced with a decision in a matter of possibly 2-5 seconds, crying out repeatedly for help (as indicated by eye witness), getting pummeled but the fact is, every single person that is saying he should have done ANYTHING else at that moment besides what he did has never been faced with that situation and has absolutely no clue what they would do.

Armchair quarterbacks are sideline critics are almost always wrong because they aren't in the heat of battle and never will be.

This is what happens when you appoint someone to bring charges rather than have a grand jury investigate facts. The State Attorney resigned, the lead investigator got reassigned, and the police chief was fired. Anyone supporting the original finding was pushed aside.

And from the beginning several major news agencies 'shaped' the story to favor TM and demonize GZ by omitting facts, doctoring videos, being selective with photos and editing 911 recordings to make GZ sound racist. The whole thing stinks. You claim racism? This is nothing but a race based charge against GZ.

That whole neighborhood was living in fear from numerous thefts, break-ins, burglaries, and even a shooting. No one cites GZ for a previous instance where he helped identify one of two young blacks suspected in a burglary (and caught with a stolen laptop).

GZ had plenty of probable cause to carry and to investigate and when he defended against an attack he got railroaded by black advocates, the news media and scared politicians. I'll be very surprised if he gets anything close to a fair trial.

You mean ,if someone jumps you and starts whipping your butt,it's okay to shoot and kill him?According to the Fl.no retreat clause.Wow,Ill never go to florida again.Where has chivalry and honor gone.

Yes that's exactly what SYG means. If someone is assaulting you, you can shoot them. If someone is attempting to rape you, you can shoot them. If someone is robbing you, you can shoot them. You get the idea already?

The law was crafted as an extension of castle laws. To deter criminals from attacking people. The reasoning goes that if citizens are able to use lethal force to protect themselves, then bad guys are less likely to do something due to them being afraid of dieing. It actually works, you get less crimes when people are allowed to defend themselves then when they have to rely on a police officer showing up 45m after the crime to take a report.

Of course in this case we get a teenager who didn't stop to think before he decided to jump someone. The person he was jumping was an idiot, but an armed idiot.

Funny part about this entire situation is that it would of been exactly the opposite reaction if TM had been the responsible for breaking into the local houses. GZ would be lauded as a hero. Of course GZ had no way of knowing if this unknown teenager walking down the street was up to something or just walking through a different neighborhood. Absolutely nothing would of happened if TM would of just kept on walking.

Lesson to everyone, do not jump people, especially in a state with concealed carry.

How dumb is that comment, if I walk up to you and show you I have a GUN what are you going to do. Just let me shoot you, can you see how stupid your comment is, you would probably attack me defending your life because you don't know my intentions. People that have a gun suddenly feel like King Kong but take away that Gun then they are like a little girl. Get the picture.

How dumb is that comment, if I walk up to you and show you I have a GUN what are you going to do. Just let me shoot you, can you see how stupid your comment is, you would probably attack me defending your life because you don't know my intentions. People that have a gun suddenly feel like King Kong but take away that Gun then they are like a little girl. Get the picture.

Hardly - law abiding CWP carryers do just that...keep it concealed. In Florida we don't carry open, it's concealed. It's not brought out to intimidate, it's not brought out to approach someone, it's not brought out if your spit on, and it's not brought out if you're merely punched. The ONLY time it's presence is made known is if you feel that you're life is being threatened and based on eye-witness account of the scene, Travon on Zimmerman's chest, Zimmerman on the bottom repeated crying out for help, it's stands to reason that we were well beyond the "punch the fat white guy and go home". If you mount an opponent that is down, you are doing so to END a situation and that's when a CWP has the legal right to pull a gun.

And on that point, you don't "shoot a warning shot", you don't "aim for a leg to wound". You are taught "two center mass". In this instance one shot was fired.

In this state if you (as you said) "walk up and show me that you have a gun"...you go to jail and you lose your right to carry a gun in this state - period.

It appears that the police had no intention on investigating this situation until the media started asking questions. Why was there no crime scene photos of GZ with his possible broken nose and cuts to the back of his head. The reason TM was black and GZ white. GZ's comments to the 911 operator " those people always get..." and calling TM a coon show that his actions were racially motivated. Besides doesn't it seem odd that if GZ nose was possible broken why x-rays taken?

If they riot, as long as they burn down their own neighborhoods, who cares.

Steve, after that comment, one can only hope it's your neighborhood!

I can not get pass the fact that the police told him to back off and let them handle it. Plus, he pursued the kid. If you were pursued by someone on you way home and they did not identify his self as a law enforcement officer, then I would think you would act in self defense. I might punch and beat someone's head against the ground to protect myself too. That is why the stand your ground law is so screwed up. Two people get into an altercation without any witnesses and the one that survives, calls it self defense.

I agree with you, OldJetsFan

NAB2

It appears that the police had no intention on investigating this situation until the media started asking questions.

Apparently you haven't followed the story or read ANY of the evidence releases. The POLICE did investigate. They provided the details of that investigation to the DA. The DA based on LAW and FACTS declined to pursue charges and deferred to the state DA. The state DA was unable to find a cause to charge and the parents became upset and contacted the "reverends" who made this a White on Black crime. The pols got riled up and involved a DA who is more pol than lawyer.

Now before you start spouting... I've seen your other postings... that I am racist, turn on the light and look in the mirror. Until this paragraph I've not implied a thing about race. Damn don't you hate that your history is viewable. But you are entitled to your opinion... Don't let the facts get in the way of your views.

Kimbo,

He called a non emergency line, so he was NOT talking to a 911 operator, he was talking to a police dispatcher. Maybe you should get your facts straight. The officer on the phone told him that they don't need him to do that. Do you need some official legal statement to be said before you will accept that he was told to not follow? And He acknowledged the order, but continued to follow. Why did he get off of the phone with 911? So what he did would not be recorded, perhaps?

Trust,

The original investigator wanted to prosecute. But the DA drove 30 minutes to get in the middle of that process, and shut it down. Now why would a DA drive somewhere late at night to personally get in the middle of that process, which is not a normal activity? It reeked of an attempted coverup, and that is what sparked all of the initial controversy.

For the record, I do not think this was racially motivated, but it is easily painted as such. I think that how Zimmermans father is had a lot more of a role in it.

ChrisFromCincy

Just go listen to the 911 call again and yes I said 911 call.

There is no evidence whatsoever that he continued to follow TM (no evidence has been released to show that so where do you get your statement from)? And again, it is not against the law to follow someone...not against the law to follow someone.

Perhaps if those of us who have a sane head on our shoulders repeats this enough, it will finally sink in.

GZ might not have used common sense that night--but he did not break the law, repeat, he did not break the law.

You can say whatever you want about the call. The FACT is that Zimmerman called a non-emergency department number. Do your own research on the subject. It was NOT a 911 call. Keep repeating it all you want, when the basis of your argument is false, the rest of the argument falters with it.

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/zimmerman-caught-on-tape-punks/2012/06/25/gJQAPTgH2V_blog.html

And this is why this is such a joke - the audio of the conversation has been available for months and for some reason people still believe that a police officer gave instruction to Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon.

There is so many other areas for speculation and doubt, but when you have the audio available, you can hear for yourselves...a police dispatcher (not an officer) told Zimmerman "Ok, we don't need you to do that." Had they wanted to tell him to not look for Trayvon, one would surmise that they would have clearly stated, "Sir, stop your pursuit immediately and get back in your vehicle"...but alas...they didn't.

If people can't agree on what direction was given (and by whom) when that is in print and audio (i.e. unarguable fact) then how on earth can we possible come to an agreement on things that aren't so blatantly clear?

http://bizsecurity.about.com/od/creatingpolicies/a/A-Transcript-Of-The-George-Zimmerman-Police-Call.htm

Shawn, their refusing to believe what they hear. Acknowledging the recording would mean their invented fictitious story is wrong. GZ stopped following TM after the dispatcher told him it wasn't needed. He can be heard clearing saying that TM had run off and he couldn't see him anymore. He then turned around and agreed with the dispatcher to have the police officer meet him near the mailbox by where his car was parked, and that to have the officer call him when he got there.

The guy was walking BACK to his car, how do people confuse walking back to your car as "following / stalking / hunting" TM? Not only that, but 35m from his car is where the altercation took place, an altercation that had GZ getting his a$$ kicked and TM not suffering a single injury (other then the lethal gunshot wound).

Occam's razor folks. Unless there is a preponderance of evidence to the contrary (not circumstantial evidence), the simplest explanation is often the correct one.

The one that relies on the least assumptions is that GZ say TM, followed him while calling police. TM noticed GZ following him and started to run, GZ followed, dispatcher said don't do that, GZ stopped as TM had run off. GZ goes back to car while telling police where to find him. TM doubles back and jumps GZ, knocks GZ to the ground and starts beating on him. GZ pulls gun and shots TM.

The absolute least number of assumptions and mental gymnastics are involved. The only assumption is that TM jumped GZ and it's an assumption made via the wounds that both sustained. If there was an actual stand up fight between GZ and TM, then TM would of had bruises, scraps or other minor superficial wounds on his body. He didn't have any, GZ never threw a single punch or got a single hit in ~anywhere~. That is what leads to the conclusion that TM was able to initiate the fight without GZ being aware and thus gained an sufficient advantage as to not suffer any injury.

Talk about fantasy land...GZ told the investigators he was walking back to his car, and had 84 seconds to get there BEFORE he hung up with the police dispatcher, why didn't he make it to his car BEFORE he hung up the phone? He had plenty of time.

The reason? Because GZ continued to LOOK for Trayvon, and then he murdered him!

JO_AN-

as we have discovered there are some people who forget it really is about every American to not be acousted by someone who has decided you look suspicious to them.

And i cant imagine how all these zimmerman folks would deal with it, if they had one that stopped and questioned there family or friends everytime they come to visit.

you know they wouldn't stand for it!!! lol

imagine how all these zimmerman folks would deal with it, if they had one that stopped and questioned there family or friends everytime they come to visit.

you know they wouldn't stand for it!!! lol

You KNOW it! lol...

@Jo,

Do you have evidence that GZ stalked / hunted / preyed upon TM prior to heading back to his car?

Do you know how far GZ was from his car? Do you know how far from the car the altercation took place?

Do you know the direction of the chase compared to the direction of the car?

I've actually looked these up, and guess what, it's IMPOSSIBLE for TM to of been anywhere near that car unless he turned around. TM would of had to run around literally around the globe to of arrived at the location he died at, without turning around.

This is why the prosecution isn't arguing that TM didn't fight GZ, they know the defense will put up a map with the points on it and do a walk through of the known timeline and locations. It will many any attempt at arguing "GZ hunted TM down" look rather foolish. Instead their trying to make GZ out to be some racist predator in an effort to do character assassination. They will not argue that TM didn't jump GZ, they will instead argue that GZ wasn't feeling threatened and that he provoked the fight prior to TM jumping him. There is a precedent already set that your not entitled to SYG Self Defense if you provoked the fight.

There has already been two failed SYG defenses, one involved a women who ran out of a ran to get a gun, then ran back in and shot her husband. The other was a man who walked up to someone else, waived a gun then threatened them. He was jumped and shot the person, then claimed SYG. In the women's case her self defense claim was denied due to her leaving the room and coming back which the judge said meant she wasn't afraid for her life. The second one was thrown out by the judge as the man was determined to of provoked the fight by threatening the other man.

Its the second line the prosecution is going for. Problem is there are no witness's who can testify that they saw GZ threatening / provoking TM. The few witness's they do have initially supported GZ's case, now their changing story's. Problem is their first statements still hold, you can't make them disappear and the prosecutor knows it. Their using the changes statements to discredit the witness who put TM on top of GZ, effectively neutralizing the defense's advantage with the witness's. Their going to rely on circumstantial evidence and character assassination to convince a jury that if there was a confrontation between GZ and TM, that GZ must have started it.

Problem with their strategy is that it has a snowball's chance in hell of actually convincing 12 jury members beyond a reasonable doubt. Remember GZ walks in innocent, regardless of what a bunch of forum junkies think. The prosecution must prove that GZ murdered TM, meaning they must prove that self defense doesn't apply. No hard evidence, no witness to the "murder", and a defendant that other then the murder charge has been a good citizen and member of the community. The defense doesn't need to prove his innocence, he walks in innocent. The defense only needs to argue, not prove, that TM jumping GZ and thus TM provoking the fight is a plausible scenario.

Whereas the prosecution must prove the GZ arguing with and threatening TM as the only scenario.

This isn't defending the actions of the idiot GZ. This is me defending our legal system and being against trial by mob. The man is entitles to his day in court, he's entitled to a fair trial, he's entitled to due process. Giving anything less just to make a bunch of forum troll junkies feel better is the reason this country is going to hell in a hand basket.

There is a precedent already set that your not entitled to SYG Self Defense if you provoked the fight.

Hate to break it to the Martin groupies..... This is FLORIDA. See Florida Statute 776.041(2)(a)&(b).

There has already been two failed SYG defenses, one involved a women who ran out of a ran to get a gun, then ran back in and shot her husband

If that is the Marissa Alexander case it will be precedent to support George actually because in both her case and this one there was a separation of encounters, no matter how short. In her case she left to get the gun. That removed the immediate threat her husband posed. He had just choked her to near unconsciousness before she left for the gun. That would apply to George since as best we can tell from the call to dispatch and 9-1-1 by witnesses it appears George was no longer a threat and the physical altercation was a new unprovoked encounter in the eyes of LAW. I don't know the details on the man with gun... sounds like one complete event with no removal of threat.

I agree on the rest of your comment... All it takes is convincing either the Judge or ONE of the members of the jury that it was self defense and George walks. Of course that leaves the door open for more trials if it isn't 12 not guilty votes. Then we will see if the prosecution doesn't come back with some level of manslaughter charges. Politics should not be brought into a court of law.

TRUST

it was not a new UNPROVOKED encounter it was a CONTINUATION of a encounter by Zimmerman.

This is clear by the charge brought by the police dept.

Please let what it is be what it was.

The facts via his own statements puts this at a HE noticed, located, lost and located again, the same focus, which was martin the whole time, thus it is ONE INCIDENT.

And stop SYG was because someone provoked a fight, THATS his defense, not what the facts will show in court.

sheesh thats why hes in court.

it was not a new UNPROVOKED encounter it was a CONTINUATION of a encounter by Zimmerman.

Explain that to Marissa Alexander. She lost contact with the person she later assaulted (per conviction by none other than Corey) When she remade contact it was considered a completely NEW even under the LAW. Remember we are talking about the same state, the same prosecutor, and the same laws.

This is clear by the charge brought by the police dept.

The police wanted to charge manslaughter... those charges were never brought. The Special Prosecutor, Corey, is TRYING to make the claim it was on contiguous encounter. That has been challenged by more than one legal expert and I am sure O'Mara will do the same in court.

Please let what it is be what it was.

I'll presume that you are not pleading with me and trying to convince me that my opinion of events is wrong. I'm simply looking at it through the eyes of the defense, the courts, and very recent court precedent. Marissa Alexander was only sentenced in April or May if I remember correctly. She tried to assert SYG but was shut down because of the break in contact which made it an entirely new event. Her husband was not only in violation of a court order, not only a threat by reasonable belief but had physically choked her to where she almost blacked out... He even acknowledged the assault... for which interestingly he was not charged for either the assault or violation of the restraining order.

The facts via his own statements puts this at a HE noticed, located, lost and located again, the same focus, which was martin the whole time, thus it is ONE INCIDENT.

by your own words "located again" shows there was a LEGAL break in contact. Two encounters in very proximity of time and place but still two events in the eyes of the legal system. Remember George was following not in pursuit (as admitted by the lead detective)

And stop SYG was because someone provoked a fight, THATS his defense, not what the facts will show in court.

I'm confused on what you are trying to say there. If we go with two events then mutual combat and reasonable belief of imminent serious bodily injury. If we go with your assertion that it was one event it still goes back to the statute that allows an aggressor to defend themselves. Do I need to post a link or the entire section?

sheesh thats why hes in court.

And your point is then? Or are you trying to assert only you get to state your opinion and no one else has the Right to state their own unless it agrees with yours? Welcome to the 1st amendment and a public forum hosted by newsvine.com. The moderators are the only ones who get to tell someone to shut up.

TRUST

this is a typical cut and paste response, this case is not the other case, that woman LEFT danger and returned to it, that ACTION is separate. And the information is provided from both sides of the event that took place that evening.

in This event, the narrative is being provided by ONE SIDE ONLY,zimmerman.

TRY NOT TO MAKE THIS DIFFICULT, there is one case number pulled for this event for zimmerman not two. The police dispatch did not send an officer for the suspicious person and then open a new one when the officers showed up.

And stop playing word games, LEGALLY >>>>LOCATED again, is from the same set of circumstances. The defense wants YOU to fall for the separation and they want the court to fall for the separation and have you think its a act upon itsself so that SYG makes better sense.

But it doesn't as a matter of fact, it might actually come back to bite him to a jury because there was no need for Zimmerman to RE-locate martin and should have AS HE SAID met the police at the mail boxes which he suggested on dispatched call.

And my point is with the THATS why he is in court is because you and others like you seem to believe zimmerman is in court for SYG , he is not he is in court for the determing the one responsible for martins death.

And by the way, since you don't get this either i see, THIS IS A PRIVATE OWNED SITE, which allows public access to it.

wow!!

in This event, the narrative is being provided by ONE SIDE ONLY,zimmerman.

Granted the narrative on Georges call to the dispatcher is between him and dispatch only... Listening to the tape there is reason to presume he did lose sight of Trayvon. There is a break in the action long enough to discuss where the police will meet with George. As it stands there is NO EVIDENCE that what he described, while on the phone, isn't what happened.... The Prosecution will need to PROVE something else happened... The call stands on it's own without George ever saying a word in court.

TRY NOT TO MAKE THIS DIFFICULT, there is one case number pulled for this event for zimmerman not two. The police dispatch did not send an officer for the suspicious person and then open a new one when the officers showed up.

And your point would be? The charges suggested by the police were manslaughter and never were filed. The next DA didn't file either. The charges were filed by Corey and are based on evidence collected by SPD but not the charges they proffered.

And stop playing word games, LEGALLY >>>>LOCATED again, is from the same set of circumstances. The defense wants YOU to fall for the separation and they want the court to fall for the separation and have you think its a act upon itsself so that SYG makes better sense.

Lets agree we disagree and see what comes out in court at the end of this mess. If a removal of the potential threat wasn't a separate incident then Marissa would have been able to use SYG. You may like calling it a word game... Courts have a different view.

But it doesn't as a matter of fact, it might actually come back to bite him to a jury because there was no need for Zimmerman to RE-locate martin and should have AS HE SAID met the police at the mail boxes which he suggested on dispatched call.

At least you have the dispatch suggesting and not ordering this time. Whether there was a need to re-locate or not they did meet AGAIN. O'Mara will argue it is a new meeting separate from the first 5 or so minute encounter.. If for no other reason he will argue that to remove ANY proof of malice.

And my point is with the THATS why he is in court is because you and others like you seem to believe zimmerman is in court for SYG , he is not he is in court for the determing the one responsible for martins death

There is the cop mentality of lumping non police into a category that is easier for you to understand. The reality is he is in court:

Public outcry
Political response
And yes to determine what sort of HOMICIDE this case involves. We already know who pulled the trigger and presumably why. The question is was it justified or not under the laws of Florida.

The defense will more than likely NOT argue SYG, statute 776, but rather old fashioned Self Defense, possibly as an extension of Castle Doctrine at first before the judge and later for the jury argue 776. That strategy makes it less likely that George needs to take the stand before trial, at the motion hearing, and make an ass out of himself in court.

And by the way, since you don't get this either i see, THIS IS A PRIVATE OWNED SITE, which allows public access to it.

Now who is playing semantics?

Wow talk about missing the forest for the tree's.

Alexanders trial will have no impact on this one, their not remotely related unless you really stretch it. And while that may make some forum trollz feel good, it won't hold a drop of water in a court room.

Their using the methods from the 2nd conviction, where the fellow involved threatened the other person with their weapon prior to the assault happening.

Ultimately SYG can only be removed if you can prove that they provoked the use of force.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

This is why their focusing so hard on using character assassination on GZ, they have no witness's who were present during the altercation or prior to the altercation who can attest to who "started it". GZ maintains that TM assaulted him, Corey will attempt to convince a jury of 12 that GZ threatened and provoked TM. Of course if GZ has injuries consistent with TM beating down on him and he was calling for help, then exception a might take place even if the prosecutor can successfully argue that GZ provoked the altercation.

Ultimately it's a stupidly long shot case and GZ's defense would have to be stupid to not pull an acquittal or at least a hung jury from this. Corey knows this, that is why she went with Murder 2 rather then manslaughter. It's purely for the political appeal to the mass's that he's been charged with "murder", manslaughter just doesn't have the same sound to it.

I doubt they can get manslaughter. They overcharged in the hopes of getting him to plea down.

If he doesn't do that, I really think Zim walks.

leroy brown

Why do I get the feeling that you two clowns were among those who claimed Zimmerthug would never be charged?

Should never have been charged. Corey charged him in a way she would never get a conviction... hell she didn't even get the paperwork right and she had weeks to get it done.

Also why he didn't get a grand jury hearing to determine if he would be charged or not. A grand jury would of most likely thrown out the case due to Stand Your Ground and self defense. There isn't enough evidence to demonstrate that he probably should be charged (grand jury's don't need to use reasonable doubt). The state needs a trial, even if it's doomed to failure. If there is no trial then all the media frenzy will explode. Once it looked like a grand jury wouldn't charge she then decided to bypass it and charge him herself.

Again the whole murder 2 / trial is just a show for the public. A show that the state is doing something.

So many avenues the defense can take, even without Stand Your Ground being a law the defense still has a strong case of self defense. With SYG and the appeals process it's nearly impossible to convict GZ.

Ohh and people don't want justice, they want revenge.

This has been twisted by an irresponsible media into "a white man murdered a black boy", complete and utter BS.

How stupid are you? He was treated on the scene by paramedics. The police were there right away. Where do you folks come? Big imagination for sure. What Zimmer did was wrong, but in Florida, not illegal. Get over it.

Bingo, Rusty. Now go back and read my post with a touch of sarcasm. Though honestly, I thought that last comment was so far over the top as to make it obvious... :)

A woman poured acid on her face and blamed black guys of doing it. So don't think that a person wont do anything like that.

Anyway, can't we just convict him of being half white?

And there we have the real reason behind all the frenzy. It's revenge, fear and hate not justice that people are asking for. Justice is blind, it doesn't care what color your skin is.

Rusty,

If Zimmerman initiated the contact with Martin, then he is not protected under this statute. He made no attempt to flee away from the situation, and therefore is not protected. He had a number of opportunities to do so, and chose not to. They will prove that in the very short altercation, Zimmerman went straight to deadly force, in which he is not protected because of the word (AND) in section 2A of the statute.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

ChrisFromCincy,

Are you deliberately distorting facts of evidence that has been released to twist it to support "your" version of events or were you there?

GZ is not considered an aggressor, by definition of the law and what you stated above, by following TM. It is not against the law to follow someone on a public street and/or sidewalk. I could follow you into Wal Mart, follow you back out and turn down the same street and I'm not breaking the law.

I could also stop you and try to talk to you and again, I'm not breaking the law.

GZ was carrying a legal, registered concealed weapon - again, not breaking the law.

GZ was following (at first) TM while speaking on the phone with 911 - again, not breaking the law.

If (and according to GZ he didn't) GZ approached TM and asked him what he was doing in his neighborhood - guess what - again, not breaking the law.

So up to the point that TM hit him (and that is FACT, not fiction), GZ was breaking no law and could not have been arrested for ANYTHING.

You make assumption after assumption on facts that are not facts and pure fiction. You have "assumed" that GZ was the aggressor, that he stalked TM, that he started it, etc. None of the evidence released to the public thus far supports any of your "assumptions."

Remember, assumptions make an a$$ out of you and me.

Post with facts, not your own made-up version of what took place.

Kimbo, just as you are assuming that Martin punched Zimmerman with no reason other than he did not like being followed. I said IF. I don't have all of the evidence, but I am allowing for the possibility that there is more information that we are not aware of. The street runs both ways. I am happy to let the prosecutors make their case in court, while you are speculating that Zimmermans version of events is gospel.

You are assuming that Zimmerman did nothing to attempt to detain Martin, and you assume that Martin attacked him for no reason. You are the one who is assuming that Zimmerman was attacked, and that he had no choice but to use deadly force to save his life. I say that the contact could have been avoided entirely, and that the voice screaming in terror for help on that 911 sounds like a submissive cry, not that of an attacker. Here we can agree to disagree, but I have not distorted anything. I have interpreted what is written as law. Sorry that you don't like that, but you are making your own assumptions to justify your viewpoint.

Kimbo

Here are the facts as we know them

1. GZ followed TM in his vehicle while speaking to the police dispatcher (not 911)

2. TM moved closer to vehicle to (most likely) check who was in it. Did not recognize the person and decided to take off

3. GZ exited from his vehicle and pursued (no longer just following) TM

4. GZ claims that he lost sight of TM and when asked if he was chasing the subject he was informed by the dispatcher that he did not need to do that and to let the police handle it

5. GZ continued to speak to the dispatcher for almost 2 minutes first making plans to go back to his vehicle to meet with the police at the mailboxes. At the last minute he changes his mind and requests that the police call him when they arrive so that he can direct them to his location

6. TM's gf claims that she heard TM ask GZ why he was following him and GZ demanding to know what TM was doing there and then she heard a scuffling noise before the phone disconnected

7. Witnesses claim to have seen TM on top of GZ and GZ screaming. Most witness statements have been recanted

8. GZ shoots and kills TM

Where in there is their proof that TM hit GZ besides GZ's word? So his nose was likely broken and he had a couple superficial scratches on the back of his head. None of that is proof that the altercation was started by TM.

Maybe you should post with facts, not your own made-up version of what took place Kim because there is no proof that TM attacked GZ, there is only proof that there was an altercation. The injuries are not proof nor is the fact that TM was supposedly (since they have recanted don't know if we can believe any part of their testimony) on top of GZ.

@Donna P-2692688

You got most of it right, other then you trying to influence the readers opinion via word usage.

What your missing is the injuries sustained.

TM didn't have a single defense wound on his body. If GZ initiated a fight, there would be a bruise, abrasion, scratch or other superficial injury someone on TM's body. Most notably there should of been marks on his forearms, face or upper body. TM was not a martial arts expert, he didn't kung-fu his way in a fight with GZ. The only injuries on TM's corpse is the gunshot wound to the chest and lacerations on his knuckles consistent with punching. GZ on the other hand has multiple lacerations (cuts) on the back of his head, closed fracture of the nose, two black eyes and another laceration on his lower back.

In short, GZ got his a$$ whooped by someone the night of the shooting. TM hit someone with his fists prior to being shot in the chest at a range of less then three feet.

Considering they were the only two at the crime scene, unless your want to subscribe a grassy knoll theory, there only exists a few possibilities.

TM kicked GZ's a$$ then GZ shot him. Or GZ shot TM, who then rose from the dead and kicked GZ's a$$. GZ's injuries are rather difficult to explain without TM kicking his a$$, so no help for you there.

The real question is, did TM initiate the fight by jumping GZ, or did GZ provoke the fight by threatening TM. In the first case GZ has a valid SYG self defense and it'll be thrown out of the court completely (jury verdict doesn't even matter then). In the second case GZ would be found guilty of murder as he wouldn't be entitled to the SYG defense.

If somebody is pursuing you with a gun, unless you have a gun or a death wish, you run & hide.

If you bring your fists to a gun fight, the process of natural selection will take care of you, as it did Trayvon Martin.

demoblat

If somebody is pursuing you with a gun, unless you have a gun or a death wish, you run & hide.

lame trolling demoblat.. you should run and hide.. you stink (¬‿¬)

Martin was a high school athlete, 5' 11" and 158 pounds. Zimmerman is 5' 9" and about 190 pounds. Zimmerman is not particularly athletic. If Martin actually thought that Zimmerman was a threat, he would have easily outrun him. The whole idea that Zimmerman chased Martin down is pathetic. Martin did confront Zimmerman. The details of that confrontation are subject to debate, but the eyewitness testimony and physical evidence put Zimmerman on the bottom. I don't think it is any surprise that Angela Corey has assigned to the case a prosecutor who is just a couple of years away from retirement. Zimmerman has been overcharged for political reasons.

That is, assuming you know the person persuing you does have a gun. If that person is chasing you, waving a gun, then running and hiding are what's needed. Since you bring up the point of natural selection with Zimmerman killing Trayvon Martin, then I guess the natural selection would be our judicial system trying him, with the possibility of jail time for this natural selection process. BTW, didn't Hitler have some kind of "natural selection" process as well??? Hmmmm.....rings a bell doesn't it??

I know that if somebody was pursuing me with a gun even when the police told them not to, I'd sure break his nose! I don't even know why this is news.

If the person is a law abiding person with a CWP, it will be concealed, as Zimmerman's was, so you'll have no idea they have it on them (hence the term "Concealed"). The police did not tell him to not follow Trayvon - the dispatcher's words were, "you don't need to do that". It was not an officer giving him a direction to not follow Trayvon. And finally, following someone is not a crime.

So basically you're saying if someone doing absolutely nothing illegal gets too close to you, you're going to "break his nose". I can't wait to see your case go to trial...

kimbo, really? he did more than simply follow him. he followed him with a gun and engaged him. after his lying to a court, can you really believe anything this man says? how do you know he didn't have his gun drawn at the time he approached him and trayvon fought for his life? you can believe a man who lies to the court? who's trying to save his butt? you really think his story of what happened is honest? he blew his credibility when he lied to a judge. fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

People can't understand the most simple part of this whole issue, Kid walking home followed by a stranger, gets shot armed with a bag of Skittles and an Ice Tea and some how the Kid is the guilty party, talk about STUPID.

People can't understand the most simple part of this whole issue, Kid walking home followed by a stranger, gets shot armed with a bag of Skittles and an Ice Tea and some how the Kid is the guilty party, talk about STUPID.

Sam the part that you're choosing to ignore is that a stranger can follow you all day long...legally. There's absolutely nothing illegal about following you around all day long. This started when the first punch was thrown because that's when it went from a verbal confrontation (which is still perfectly legal) to assault.

What's stupid is that this could have been diffused 10,000 ways and by both parties. Sadly it sounds like most people believe in the "throw punches first ask questions later" mentality which is easy to do when you're sitting comfy and warm at your keyboard, but on the streets when most people are followed by someone and it looks suspicious, they'll either head home, call the police, or go somewhere where they feel safe. Most people (in real life) won't just start swinging at strangers that are doing nothing illegal.

Shawn,

No doubt that both were idiots. TM was an idiot for turning back and confronting GZ when he should of just kept walking towards home. GZ was an idiot for getting out of his car and chasing the kid, he isn't a police officer he should of stayed in the vehicle and waited for the police. In either case both could of defused the situation by being polite and asking / answering basic questions.

None of them above takes away GZ's right to a fair, impartial trial by jury and due process. Trial by lynch mob is not what this country was founded on.

Agree wholeheartedly theotherguy1234...

+1

You people who claim George was "ordered" to stay in his car or not follow make about as much sense as the Obama Birthers.

There was no direct order to not follow Trayvon and Obama was not born in Kenya.

JEM: while George wasn't ordered to stay in his car, the dispatcher told George about following Trayvon "We don't need you to do that". 911 dispatchers are a mix of both civilian dispatchers (under the supervision of the police dept.), or they are in fact police officers themselves. So while what the dispatcher said wasn't a direct order (don't do that), it can be considered a form of command from the police dept. in order to keep George from getting into harms way. The neighborhood watch program that George was watch captain of, had guidelines in place that George should have respected and obeyed. The main guideline is "Observe and Report". Neighborhood watch programs are under the guidance of the local police dept. As someone who has been there and done that, we were told not to directly follow or try to apprehend someone in lieu of something going wrong where we could end up injured or dead, or the person being apprehended gets hurt, then tries to sue us for injuries sustained or the police could charge us with assault. Keeping a safe distance, and observing/reporting the situation is the duty of a neighborhood watch person.

I have a laundry list of BLACKS MURDERING WHITES

When doing laundry, keep your whites and colors separate...

wow, you made all of that up.

Lots of people just fabricating stories right now. The initial media hype made GZ to look like some kind of crazed racist killer out looking for a victim, and TM as some 12 year old innocent kid looking for his mom.

As more and more details come out showing that in reality GZ was short and a scared idiot following what he thought was a criminal, and that TM was a high school athlete who decided to be a thug (what else would you call jumping some fat old dude). those people are now forced to either admit they were wrong or use cognitive dissonance to fabricate ever more improbably stories.

The structure of the human nose is cartridge and not bone. It really does not matter if Mr. Zimmerman's nose was broken or not. The only evidence that matters was that documented on the night of the encounter. It can be argued that Mr. Zimmerman broke his own nose before he saw his doctor.

killgz

Other than the EMT, police, and doctors reports, there is no evidence. No Limit attacked Zimmerman, then probably went for his gun, GZ beat him to it and capped him. One less thug to worry about.

Trayvon definitely was not a model child. He was repeatedly suspended from school. He used an illegal drug. There is no evidence that George stalked him. It was raining and dark. Trayvon was by himself with no friends wandering about in the rain. Give me an example of an upstanding 17 year old who wanders around in the dark and rain?

Give me an example of an upstanding 17 year old who wanders around in the dark and rain?..Well Dale, I guess you found me out. Guilty as charged.

He was suspended from school TWICE. Once for writing something on a locker and once for traces of pot in an empty bag. Whether he used illegal drugs (pot) has NOTHING to do with this guy shooting him. I've used pot and other illegal drugs and NEVER did anything to warrant getting shot. George's own admission that he was following Trayvon is the evidence that he was actually stalking him. He believed he was a criminal (although no criminal activity was actually being committed) and he decided to follow him. STALKING. Trayvon was walking back from the convenience store and it was raining. Are you so dainty that you'd melt in the rain so you've NEVER been walking in the rain? What a dumb fukking statement for you to make. I'm an adult and have enjoyed walking in the rain many times throughout my life.

You're just an idiot, Dale.

Give me an example of an upstanding 17 year old who wanders around in the dark and rain?

One that goes to a store between 7 and 7:30 to buy a soft drink and some candy and then returns home while talking on the phone to his girlfriend. He was a middle class A/B average student who was planning become an engineer. Zimmerman fantasized something else, acted on it and Martin ended up dead for it.

If Martin did assault Zimmerman it was because he was reacting to a situation Zimmerman initiated.

One that goes to a store between 7 and 7:30 to buy a soft drink and some candy and then returns home while talking on the phone to his girlfriend. He was a middle class A/B average student who was planning become an engineer. Zimmerman fantasized something else, acted on it and Martin ended up dead for it.

I agree with you, Culheath.

.

.

Here is a picture taken 9 days before Trayvon was shot

http://globalgrind.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-9-Days-Before-Death-Photo?gpage=1#gtop

In this picture, all of you can see that Trayvon had no tattoos on his face. You can see he is VERY tall and VERY thin. He looks like he has a bright future.

Exactly. Case closed.

What the hell turnip truck did you just fall off of? Or were you born at night (last night)?

Get a friggin' grip and read everything, before you post, with "open eyes" and not the eyes of a racist!

ScottPin, Is it your nature to just insult? Do you have a thought to add to this discussion? It seems to me that you are the one who fell off the truck and hit your head.

What the hell turnip truck did you just fall off of? Or were you born at night (last night)?

Get a friggin' grip and read everything, before you post, with "open eyes" and not the eyes of a racist!

Translation: Don't spoil a perfectly good lynching with trivial things like facts.

The comment "turnip truck" says it all.

Enough said!

ScottPin Bwk

What the hell turnip truck did you just fall off of? Or were you born at night (last night)?

Get a friggin' grip and read everything, before you post, with "open eyes" and not the eyes of a racist!

Please provide a link to the fiction you have been reading that disproves #17. The only thing the post has wrong is stalking can be defined as repeated following.. which there is no EVIDENCE George followed more than once... one continuous event. When George and Trayvon met the SECOND time that night there is no EVIDENCE of George doing any following at that time.

And seriously what is with the accusation of racism? Mark never stated, implied or alluded to a race or anything even remotely face affiliated. When all else fails and one has no argument they resort to name calling and pulling the race card. Sorry that card has been played and trumped by the facts of the case.

None of you have a valid explanation of WHAT exactly was it that Trayvon was doing illegally for Zimmerman to decide he was a criminal. He decided he was because he was a black guy walking around in the dark with a hood on. Whether he's in law enforcement or not, that's profiling. The rest of your drivel is pointless.

Lola,

with your talent for mindreading, you should go to work for the government of something. What am I thinking now. You shouldnt have to guess.

None of you have a valid explanation of WHAT exactly was it that Trayvon was doing illegally for Zimmerman to decide he was a criminal.

He was wandering around aimlessly in the rain and the action looked suspicious. He didn't mention the fact that he was black until the police dispatcher specifically asked him about his race. If I saw someone just wandering around houses without a given direction while it's raining outside in my neighborhood I'd be curious what's going on as well.

The rest of the "drivel" as you call it, is trying to explain to everyone what the FACTS are, but the sad part is people are quick to dismiss facts in the face of emotions. Everyone wants to cry out with emotion but the fact is, you can follow someone all day long and that does not give them the legal right to punch you in the face.

Like he said, "None of the things that happened before Trayvon punched GZ will have any effect on the case."

MarkL (among others) Someone needs to quietly point out in all of this 'case closed Bollocks' that I've read that WE DO NOT; REPEAT DO NOT; HAVE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE. ERGO: NO ONE can state whether or not the charges will be proved or disproved "based on the evidence". At this point in time and space it is foolish to state so.

Guilt or Innocence will not be proven on these boards: anyone who thinks so aught to save their breath so they can blow up their dates later. In fact, I'm not reading these bloody posts anymore: I'm just going to wait until the trial.

Mark-----You only speak of each action as a separate action by itself as not being illegal.

Well, the chemicals in a kid's chemistry kit are safe separately by themselves. But, if a kid ignores the directions (or safety guidelines) the kid could start a FIRE.

.

.

COMMON SENSE tells us that

an overzealous person........................ + a gun + a temper that has flared up in the past (especially in 2005 ... +following with abad attitude (saying "THESE a$$h@les...they always get away).................... + NOT understanding why guidelines are given to Watch volunteers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, = the SETTING for a horrible TRAGEDY

LolaS,

No explanation is needed for why GZ decided or thought TM was a criminal. That is irrelevant.

He did and called 911 to report it.

An explanation is not needed. He was not breaking the law by calling 911, he was not breaking the law by intially following him to see what was up, and if (and that's a big IF) he approached him, he again was not breaking the law by attempting to speak to him.

Nothing he did was against the law--so there is no need for explanation from him or anyone who supports him.

I don't need an explanation.

Kimbo

I agree. What most of these posters dont realize is that the judge is not going to let the prosecutor come up with a bunch of "we think this is what happened, or it could have happened like this", if she makes an allegation, she better damn well have some proof. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, dont cut it in a real courtroom. The evidence shows that GZ was attacked, since the only other one there was Martin, what reasonable conclusion do you think a jury is going to come to. Zimmerman has just as much right to defend himself as Martin does. Zimmerman walks, and then sues everybody in sight for libel.

If you have a grammar and spell check on that cell phone or computer you are using, do the rest of us a favor and USE IT.

Otherwise, your comments are full of holes and not very many facts.

The paramedic who treated him at the scene testified at his bond hearing that there was blood on his face, coming from his nose and it appeared his nose might be broken.

Most doctors do not take x-ray's of a broken nose as through a physical examination they can tell if it's fractured or broken--been there, done that.

You have a parademic, that was on scene, and a doctor the next day say his nose was likely broken. Is that a conspiracy? The paramedic doesn't even know GZ. So they got together and concocted that story? Yeah, right.

No, the special prosecutor is trying to make a name for herself. Don't you find it curious that she would not let the case go to a grand jury and just decided herself to pursue charges? I think she might have thought that a grand jury wouldn't see things the way she did. She made UP HER MIND before she even investigated. She stated in her own news conference when charges were inferred that she told TM's family she would get justice. This was BEFORE she even investigated and had any facts of the case.

And, anyone notice that the special prosecutor was black--a coincidence--I think not.

No jury, following the law, will be able to convict on what we've seen thus far.

He'll walk.

killgz

its obvious alot of you gz supporters should learn the law

The prosecution witnesses, EMT and police are going to testify as the extent of Zimmermans injuries, what do you suggest Corey do, impeach her own witnesses and say that her evidence is tainted? The prosecution will stipulate as to the injuries, to not do so will make her look like a fool.

You need to stop watching Law & Order.