I agree no less and upon conviction immediate public execution.

I'm with you Joe. He's a proven perjurer and probably a flight risk. I was say, no bail at all.

Joe wins he got it right

Good guess Joe, maybe you are a Judge! GZ is rolling though with 100K down and outta there.

This is a bunch of BS. The guy is not a flight risk and a $1M bond will cost him $100k to purchase that he won't get back no matter what. This is just a bunch of crap and an insult to the American system of justice.

He should actually be released on his own recognizance....when you consider the state has absolutely no case against the man.

But knowing the judge...I wouldn't be surprised at a one million dollar(15%) bail.

wow -- Joe either has inside knowledge or is a very good guesser :)

He admittedly shot a minor, some time in jail is warranted even if he gets off.

Bail cannot be denied as a Punishment....But if the defendant is a danger to the community or a flight risk. The Judge pretty much had to grant bail....and his being ticked off about the Paypal account certainly weighed in on his decision to make it $1 Million.....anything more than that and it would have really been perceived as "vindictive" on the Judges part. I don't think he needs to explain how he came to his amount decision....So, there it is....10% Bond or Property assurance....$100,000.....done.

We the corporations?..(#1.10)..."He admittedly shot a minor"

Ummm, No....He admitted to the cops he shot someone in self-defence when Police arrived a minute after the shooting, and didn't know how old the guy he shot was....Got it ???

He brought this on himself, you know. If he and his wife had been honest about their financial situation, he'd still be out in hiding living comfortably on donations.

But he lied--his family lied-- and in a case in which he's the only living party to say what happened from start to fatal ending. Credibility might play a meaningful part in his defense, doncha think?

hahhahah..........and we hold zimmer ransom for... ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

This is turning into an episode of Twilight... Zimmerman or Martin? Who's side are you on?!

American Girl-724855...(#1.15)..."and the wife is serving time for perjury"

Prove it !!.....you can't....

Again with this "Child" thing ???...Paaaleeeze....another 17 yr.old child is serving a life sentence for the murder of 2 British Tourists....Shot them dead and then pulled their pants down.....sick little child, No ????

So this is what American justice looks like? The judge set bail at $1Million just because he was pist off at Zimmerman. That is not justice, this is a vindictive judge abusing his power. Zimmerman is not a flight risk. The judge should be ashamed of his actions. This is BS.

TO: Mike in Delray who wrote:

"...and the wife is serving time for perjury"

Prove it !!.....you can't..."

Zimmerman's wife arrested, accused of perjury

Share this on:

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June 12, 2012|From Vivian Kuo, CNN

George Zimmerman's wife was arrested Tuesday afternoon for allegedly lying at his bond hearing about the couple's finances.

No he isnt a child , he is a teenage thug who wouldnt have been out that late. His parents should be held respsonsible for child negligence. He is a minor out after curfew , and his studiity got him shot. The good thing...he didnt have a chance to procreate.....so thats one less welfare baby we have to worry about.

GZ has a strong case for wrongful imprisonment !

It would be illegal not to provide bail for GZ. The lie was only relevant to the amount of bail which has nothing to do with actually granting bail !

American Girl, You're right about, "wrong on both counts",but,why did the Judge let him out? I'm positive there wasn't any outcry for this knuckleheads release. I'm of the same opinion as you are,once you lie to the Judge your whole credibility is shot.

Oh excuse us Mike, she already went to jail and poster her bond. Now the liar wife and her liar.killer hubby can wait for their trials together. What an upstanding pair! LMAO

Terry I agree. The Judge took an unreasonable amount of time to set the new bail . He took the deception too personal and wanted to punish GZ.

GZ should tell them he wants to stay in jail & get 3 square a day on the state !

TO: Maniac-4390500 who wrote:

"No he isnt a child, he is a teenage thug..."

Not a child? He's certainly not an "adult" until he's 21, which he will never see, thanks to Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had done what the police had told him to do, this child would be alive today.

Now what made this child a "thug"? The skittles, the iced-tea, or the label you put on him?

How many times can you lie and then lie under oath and still remain able to bail out? Is his wife going to bail out as well? A shame that not every American especially poor gets the chance to bail out twice the initial and after the RE ARREST. ; ]

As for his lawyer he seems to be the equivocal scum that we all expect him to be. He is a lawyer. But Travon did NOTHING to warrant his murder he was simply STANDING HIS GROUND.

Where The Notorious Mr. Zimmerman will lose is here, you do not get the benefit of the stand your ground law simply and only because YOU have the gun. That would be saying if you do not have a gun then you are not entitled to stand your ground. Remember, everything The Notorious Mr. Zimmerman reported about Travon to 911 was a LIE. ; ]

post script

17 is a child legally and otherwise. The law is the law and IGNORANCE of the law is NO excuse.. ; ]

Cheers

Maniac:

No he isnt a child , he is a teenage thug who wouldnt have been out that late. His parents should be held respsonsible for child negligence. He is a minor out after curfew , and his studiity got him shot

Um, he was out at around 7:00pm. You call that late? Maybe you try understanding a story before you post things that simply aren't true. Whose "studiity" is really showing now?

@Terry-753375 - the bond is $1MM but Zimmerman needs to pony up $100,000. He has something like $180,000 that was donated for his legal defense and I would presume that would include bond. GZ is out nothing.

TO: fenderbluesjr who wrote:

"American Girl, You're right about, "wrong on both counts",but,why did the Judge let him out?..."

Every American is guaranteed the right to "reasonable bail" provided by the United States Constitution.

American Girl-724855...."And do you also support them giving Zimmerman his gun back,"....

Say What ???...Another one ???....where do you get these non-facts .....His gun was taken into evidence the night of the shooting....Enough already...

he was not a child. He was a full grown 6 foot 240 lb. man.

He was 17 years old. His height and weight are immaterial.

There really is no race war except that which is waged by Zimmerman supporters who seem to think that only 17 year old white children are human. In this country, people are allowed to gather together and protest what they see as an injustice. The injustice here was that a kid was killed and the person who killed him was allowed to walk based on his word alone.

If the police had done their job, they would have taken Zimmerman to the hospital for x-rays since he claimed his head was bashed repeatedly on the concrete and his bloody nose was broken. The police might have wondered why the dead child had no blood or abrasive marks on his hands (other than a scratch on his pinky finger).

Martin was killed about 7:15 pm, which is hardly curfew.

In America, money more often than not, determines freedom or incarceration, guilt or innocence.

Gary'

My best guess is Zimmerman will be found guilty of 3rd degree murder ( manslaughter)

Nope, the state has to prove 2nd degree murder. They can plea bargain Zimmerman to a lesser charge, but they cannot find him guilty of charges that were not originally filled.

American Girl - You have no proof (which is exactly what everyone else here keeps saying the same things over and over like a broken record do) that GZ did not do EXACTLY what he said he did. You have NO PROOF he followed him after saying he stopped and no proof he started the fight. What kills me is even DEE DEE says Trayvon started the confrontation so you don't think he could have started a physical one as well as a verbal one?

Hmmmm Lets see who's "story" adds up? Dee Dee's? or Georges? Well Dee Dee's has so many glaring holes in my mind its amazing and has already changed her statements IIRC like what 3 times? Still you get to analyze hours and hours of GZ statements and people find 2 or 3 things which seem a little inconsistant and WOW he is a lying murderer (Which oddly enough if you read up on the subject tends to show innocence because getting the same STORY exactly right over and over and over again usually means its made up and your just re-telling the story you memorized and not remembering the facts but hey this means nothing too....)

So somehow Trayvon just goes nowhere for over 88 seconds and you don't care at all? Let me guess he had Trayvon at gunpoint the entire time he was on the call to the operator and just didn't want to tell them? You pick and chose the facts that suite your narrative and discard the others. I've looked at them all and yeah I can completely understand not knowing how to handle the money and answering what was ASKED of them an nothing else. That's that part that gets to me exactly HOW did she lie? Did she know the EXACT amount? No... Did she think she could estimate it? No... Did they ask "So have you raised at least $100,000 from that website?" NO. Still it LOOKS shady so they must be guilty but forget they might not want the entire jail to know they have $100k+.... :/

Your being railroaded by the system you believe in and that money is all you got and now with a nice 1 million bond there goes half of it (Don't forget the $15,000 is gone too). Thats ok just hold that against them both. Funny how you all will ignore all the apparent "lies" the Martin family has told from day 1 starting with the dad's "I saw him about 8:30pm last night" and just keeps on from there. ah welll....

Bail cannot be denied as a Punishment....But if the defendant is a danger to the community or a flight risk. The Judge pretty much had to grant bail.

It has already been established that the defendant is a danger to the community.

snarky68....(#1.50)....Here is what will likely happen next.....Zimmerman's Lawyer will file for an "Immunity Hearing" ....

"When a defense lawyer files a motion for "stand your ground" immunity, a
hearing is held that resembles a trial: Witnesses are called and cross-examined,
evidence is introduced and lawyers make arguments.

"You basically have a trial before the trial," Jacksonville attorney Kevin
Cobbin said.

The verdict is up to the judge. And because the burden to prove "stand your
ground" is on the defense, the lawyers' traditional roles are flipped, with the
defense on the offensive.

At least in theory, the defense doesn't have much to prove.

In a criminal trial, the state must prove the crime "beyond a reasonable
doubt." In an immunity hearing, defense lawyers need only "a preponderance of
the evidence" to win the case.

The preponderance standard — the same used in civil cases — is a much lower
bar.

"It's 50.1%," Schwartzreich said.

Robert Buonauro, an Orlando lawyer who recently
won immunity for a client in a Seminole
County case, said you only have to "tip the scale a little bit in your
favor."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-stand-your-ground-20120610,0,1514274.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Fnationworld%2Fnation+%28L.A.+Times+-+National+News%29

So many Judges on here today wow.....

This Case is Pathetic and a Media Circus just like OJ's pathetic case.

If the glove don't fit you must acquit.

American Girl-724855...."(#1.51).... "So, you're saying you can't tell the difference between a "fact" and a "question"?"

This was your "question" --"American Girl-724855...."And do you also support them giving Zimmerman his gun back,"....

Your question is based on either lack of knowledge on your part or a lie....You are stating in your question that Zimmerman was given back his gun by the Police..........Zimmerman was NOT given his gun back.....so which is it...a Lie or you just made it up cause you didn't know ???

He was a full grown 6 foot 240 lb. man.

Gary, he was 160lbs. why did you feel the need to exagerate this? im not sure how this benefits your blind defense of george zimmerman.

the judge just ate up almost all of Zimmerman's defense money, he has about 35 thousand left after he posts bail, can not work, can not get welfare (he has 35 k left), he does not have enough left to hire experts, re-construction specialists, forsenic experts,jury reviewers; the judge got upset, that he was not told the truth, rightly so; still, there is no jury outside of Harlem that will convict him, if it ever goes to trial!

American Girl (#1.53),

I have certain rules about arguing with idiots.

Apparently you feel privileged enough to create all of your own laws, which have nothing to do with actual Rules of Law.

I won't be responding to anymore racial profiling or you trying make teen blacks into adults, killing them, and then labeling it "justifiable homicide".

Creep.

Why am I an idiot? Because I cited the legal definition of "child" which Trayvon did not meet? What laws am I creating? What racial profiling have I done? Why am I a creep?

You are using what is called an "Ad Hominem" argument. Basically, you can't find any faults with my argument so you attack me as a person. If you have an issue with my reasoning or with the facts I am using, please feel free to point them out and provide your counter-sources.

On the other hand, if you are going to just make personal attacks against people who disagree with you, please stop posting.

.

Whether he is guilty or not, he is screwed. The media and race hustlers will see to that. Too bad he wasn't gay instead of a white hispanic. Then he could have said he was defending himself from a hate crime. I got that idea from Kat Williams no less.

More blacks are killing blacks on the streets of Chicago. But, this is about MEDIA VANITY!

I don't blame Zimmerman one bit for not disclosing that money. The prosecution would have tried to take that for bail, leaving him with nothing. Given the choice between bail and a good defense, I would take the good defense any day. Without those donations, Zimmerman won't have that defense. Giving it up for bail is unfair, and would not get him the representation he needs in court. Would they do that to a white or black guy? I don't think he is any more a flight risk than a black or a white, so why treat him differently?

Hmmm, it seems the PMSNBC author missed a critical part in the headline,,,

Florida judge sets bond at $1 million for "White Hispanic" George Zimmerman

By the way, wouldn't it be refreshing to see so much outrage from the Liberal community about the murder of Border Agent Brian Terry? I guess a white man doesn't deserve the same "social justice".

Most of the Zimmerman apologists seem to forget that he withheld his Peruvian passport when he surrendered his American passport. That, and the fact that he concealed over $100,000 in cash make him a serious flight risk. That he discussed the laundering of money, in code, with his wife and fact that he deceived both his parents and in-laws into taking out second mortgages to go his original bail should also weigh in. And now there is even a challenge against his web site claims that donations would be used for legal expenses. The money was being used for living expenses instead. When he was questioned about it by the authorities, they then changed the web site to say the money would be used for legal AND living expenses.

The other thing that can be considered in evaluating a flight risk is any suffen change in appearance. Zimmerman has lost considerable weight from his booking weight and is growing out his hair. This is what people often do when they are intending to jump bail. Personally, I would think that this is a legal strategy to obscure the fact that he was 90 lbs heavier than Martin and not letting the jury see him with his shaven head will help prevent the prosecution from pointing out that most of the area's gangs are Latino and always have shaved heads.

Gary 420

'... he was not a child. He was a full grown 6 foot 240 lb. man.'

hehe...puff, puff...geeev!

I thought it was against lib policy to publicly lynch a Mexican? This is entirely confusing!

Chris,

He voluntarily turned himself into the police twice (three times if you count right after the shooting). That doesn't sound like a flight risk. Now this man, who is innocent until proven guilty, must pay a bail-bondsman $100,000 (more than many people make in a year) just so he doesn't have to sit in prison until the trial (which is probably several months away).

That doesn't really seem right.

"No he isnt a child , he is a teenage thug who wouldnt have been out that late. His parents should be held respsonsible for child negligence. He is a minor out after curfew , and his studiity got him shot." - Maniac (1.26)

"No he isn't a child"... but his parents should be "held responsible for CHILD negligence", because he was "a MINOR" who was --in your opinion-- "out after curfew".

Nice try. But, you can't have it both ways - if he's not a child, then his parents can't possibly be held responsible for CHILD negligence.

Also, since when has 7 pm been "after curfew"?

Even with a case like this one --where there is plenty left to sort through and try to figure out, and no eyewitnesses to help keep people honest-- there are some details that are known facts - so, you can't just start making up stuff and expect people to take you seriously.

Why is this judge so hell bent on making bail bondsmen rich? Maybe he gets a kick back from the bail bondsmen in his area? Zimmerman is not a flight risk. I figure it is either a kick back or he is just pist at Zimmerman and being vindictive. Either way it is a shameful act on his part. Just saying.

Is this going to be one of those court cases that only the low-lifes will follow? just like the casey anthony case?

@Chris-749391

Looks to me like he got heavier...and growing out his hair...really? Didnt know they have on-call barbers in holding cells.

ORRR Beoweolf, he will be released because some tall 6'3 punk who was a guest in gated community decided to attack a neighborhood watch rep, who started pounding his face in on the ground, felt him go foR his gun and shot him dead like your supposed to in "self-defense". I guess the no scuffs on his hands along with the broken face mean nothing. Since none of us know and most of the evidence is washed off due to an incompetent PD, hes gonna walk.

Martin was 140 pounds, not 240 nice fox news fed lies going on here, he was stalked, followed and never got the information that Zimmerman was on duty watch, according to GZ. The police concluded that it was at the very least manslaughter that night, given the story. You get behind a car drunk recklessly, you go to jail. You use reckless judgment with a gun, you go to jail. At least everywhere but Florida.

This bail was actually in line with the amount of money available to his previous bail had been set but having lied to the judge, he upped it. I could be wrong but I don't get the impression judges find it humorous when people lie. And his wife was arrested for perjury, I am sure she is on bail by now....

You dummy, are you looking in a mirror using facts not in evidence? There is nothing to say the boy was a thug, he had made some typical teenage mistakes but had no history of violence, unlike Ziimmerman who has a long history of daddy buying him out of violent crimes. This just might be the one he couldn't buy him out of, maybe GZ will get control over his anger.

I honestly think that is very bad hosting on the part of Florida for someone new in town to get stalked and killed for walking down the street and people find that acceptable. The place is a hunting grounds now, see how many have to die before your tourist industry takes a hit.

Jan,

He was 160 lbs. (Or more exactly 158 lbs. according to the autopsy). Also, I would argue that he was justified in using his weapon.

I agree on all your other points though. Exaggerating or ignoring facts doesn't add anything to the discussion and lying to a judge is a stupid thing to do.

TO: charlie451 who wrote:

"Idiot GZ was treated for injuries but I guess you can't read !..."

If Zimmerman had done what the Police TOLD him to do, no one would have been hurt, and no one would be dead either!

Except that GZ initiated the encounter and said that TM hit him when he was reaching for his cell phone. A cop would shoot you for being stupid enough to reach in your pocket because they would assume your going for a weapon. TM had no idea that GZ was on duty watch. So in that light him trying to prevent him from shooting him was justified.

I tend to believe this is more manslaughter because murder implies an intent that may not have been there. Manslaughter is justified because he recklessly chose to follow the boy, and not identify himself, he recklessly initiated an encounter with him. At the end of the day GZ is alive, and TM who was unarmed and not guilty of ANY wrong doing is not.

Scuba and I will finalize my point with anytime I have ever asked someone supporting GZ, if that had been their son he had killed, would they accept no investigation? No one has ever said yes they would support it, because they care about their kids. You can't take a life without expecting investigation, the only way a victim of a violent crime has a voice is through evidence, and this case was monumentally mishandled from the start.

TO: You dummy who wrote:

"...punk ... shot him dead like your supposed to in "self-defense"."

It can't be "self defense" because the Police TOLD Zimmerman to leave the kid alone, but Zimmerman refused to leave the boy alone and killed the boy instead.

Zimmerman is the "punk" in this, because you can't call a kid a "punk" just because he bought some skittles and an iced-tea inside a gated community where Zimmerman doesn't even live!

Zimmerman was the killer-invader who refused to leave the kid alone like Police told him to, so that's not "self defense" THAT'S murder.

As you are so fond of pointing out about Zimmerman, Trayvon was not a cop and didn't have that authority to act as a vigilante and attack Zimmerman.

And I will admit that if Trayvon was my child (even though I have no children), I would almost certainly want Zimmerman to hang. However, that is a highly biased point of view and we need to look at the facts from an objective point of view. Looking at things objectively, I don't see a case here. There just isn't enough evidence to convict Zimmerman.

Black kid, whitish looking man, racists assume the black kid deserves it. Which is why the castle part of the SYG law is so horrible. It makes it legal for racists to kill black people, because they are naturally afraid of them due to biases.

Scuba, but he did have the right to stand his ground, he could have justifiably killed GZ if he had been the thug you want him to be and been carrying a gun. Because he had good reason to be afraid of someone following him and not identifying himself. TM acted in self defense on someone who was following him, he made the mistake of not running like hell, teenagers don't always make good choices.

My problem Scuba with your argument is this, you act as though a black child or man, has no right to defend themselves. The fact is black males live in a very violent a suspicious ridden world. You seem like a decent sort, use some common sense here, this was manslaughter. He recklessly took the life of a teenager.

His actions, violated the watch guidelines and he didn't stop when they told him to stop following him. He got out of his car and initiated a confrontation with the boy. That is reckless, not fear. Not self defense, if some guy is following me down the street, I would be scared as hell.

The judge is trying to confiscate the $100,000 Zimmerman raised for his legal costs. Zimmerman would have to forfeit $100,000 to pay the 10% bond fee. He's better off staying in jail to make sure he has enough for his defense.

Is this going to be one of those court cases that only the low-lifes will follow? just like the casey anthony case? - what__the__81 (1.80)

You're on here commenting on it, as well. So, come on down off of that high horse... it seems you don't have much right to be up on it.

TO: Jan-21270 who wrote:

"Except that GZ initiated the encounter ... TM had no idea that GZ was on duty watch...

I tend to believe this is more manslaughter because murder implies an intent that may not have been there. Manslaughter is justified because he recklessly chose to follow the boy, and not identify himself, he recklessly initiated an encounter with him. At the end of the day GZ is alive, and TM who was unarmed and not guilty of ANY wrong doing is not."

You must really be a nice person to give Zimmerman at least some kind of benefit-of-the-doubt.

In my view, once the Police told Zimmerman to leave the kid alone and Zimmerman pursued the child anyway, that in my view, makes me feel that there was indeed "intent" on Zimmerman's part, and once Zummerman pulled his gun, that again, in my view, makes me feel that, for the second time, Zimmerman intended to cause great bodily harm to this kid who had done nothing at all but was still stalked by Zimmerman and then killed.

I'll agree with you that a manslaughter charge might be easier to prove than a more complicated charge of 2nd Degree Murder.

From the injuries, Trayvon initiated the physical conflict (although, it is possible that Zimmerman grabbed/pushed Trayvon first, leaving no injuries but there isn't any way to prove this). So Zimmerman also had the right to stand his ground. If they both have the right to stand their ground, then neither is guilty, it's just a poorly written law.

Scuba, GZ acted recklessly and American Girl, Florida should have learned from the over reach of capital murder charges on Casey Anthony. If you can't prove intent, and in this case you can't, go with the lesser charge.

Well Florida, numerous legal experts and the police all concluded what I did Visible. GZ acted outside of guidelines and recklessly, if you kill someone drunk driving you would go to prison, there isn't an intent to kill but your actions led to it. GZ's actions led to that death, and that is what they are pinning a murder charge on, I think that is an overreach.

And exactly how would GZ know that TM used marijauna walking down the street with tea and skittles? Seriously you people are so freaking racist its completely disgusting, he is a black kid, he deserved to die.

TO: Scubasteve58001 who wrote:

"... I don't see a case here. There just isn't enough evidence to convict Zimmerman."

A dead body IS evidence, and there's an admission from Zimmerman that he killed the kid. So, whenver a child dies at the hands of another, there's most definately a "case here".

17 years old is not a child. I do not care who you are.

He is black, its legal to hunt them down there. I don't recommend Florida for a tourist attraction for black people.

Actually suds, 17 is a child in every respect of the law. Eighteen is the cut off.

Obviously the judge wants him to remain in jail, hence the ridiculous bail requirement, and the equally ridiculous assertion by the prosecution of him being a flight risk. He's required to wear a monitor and there's literally no place he could go that he can't be extradited from.

They just want him to spend as much time in jail as possible before he's acquitted.

Perhaps they figure if Zimmerman is in jail, the ghetto will remain calm, or as calm as it gets.

Wet Willy he has 200k, and 128k left in his defense fund, the bail was in line for the amount of money he has. The lower bail was based on faulty information.

Okay all you GZ lovers, just admit that you are racists who think black people deserve to die and we can all call it a day because you are a waste of air.

@Jan,

That is a false analogy, and I'm sure you know it. When you are drunk driving, you are breaking a law. George did not break any laws prior to Trayvon assaulting him.

While George's actions were not brilliant, they were within the law. The prosecution admitted in the bond hearing that Trayvon assaulted George, and hence broke the law. He took it too far, and unfortunately for him his victim was armed.

I disagree, if some guy was following me down the street and then got out of his car to chase me on foot. I would be terrified, he was reckless in his actions and that caused the death. The prosecution admitted it because it was the conclusion of the police and the state that he had behaved recklessly causing the death.

The encounter was initiated by suspicious behavior and not bothering to even identify himself on the part of GZ. Sorry, black people deserve justice too. and if that was your white inbred kid, you would be raising hell if they had just not looked into at all.

And you are proving yourself to be the white inbred racist that might have gotten through high school, I came to the same conclusion that the police and the state of Florida did. Apparently you know more than they do about law.

Jan,

Refer to post 1.44 for the legal definition of child. The cutoff is 14. Trayvon was a minor, but not a "child".

American Girl,

A dead body IS evidence, and there's an admission from Zimmerman that he killed the kid. So, whenver a child dies at the hands of another, there's most definately a "case here".

A dead body is evidence someone was killed, it isn't evidence of murder. They have investigated, as they should have, but when the original DA declined to prosecute the case, he did it because he knew there wasn't enough evidence to support it in trial.

... then got out of his car to chase me on foot.

Where is your evidence that there was any chasing? This is total speculation on your part. How do you account that there was time for Trayvon to run home and back 6 times during the time George was on the phone after they crossed paths? If he was so terrified, what is the possible explanation for this? Why didn't he just go home? Come on, bring on the speculative nonsense. I'll be here.

And in any case do you REALLY believe that a 6' tall 17 year old football player could not outrun an obese 28 year old insurance agent? I mean, come on.

They had not even questioned all of the witnessed when the original prosecutor wrongly concluded this was a stand your ground case. The republican lawmakers said that this case did not meet the standard by that law so the investigation was halted before it really started. So if the police, the state and the law makers all said this isn't self defense, that he acted recklessly why are you people so fiercely defending him? Let him go to a jury,

@Jan, please give me a break. The prosecution charged him with fabricated nonsense AFTER all the marches started and after Obama made the mind-boggling decision to jump in. You know this. Stop acting like their totally subjective and speculative musings are some kind of fact.

By throwing around all this "white inbred racist" garbage you are showing yourself for what you are - a sore loser who has no logical argument to stand on. Keep it coming - I wish I had referenced your older posts so I wouldn't have wasted time treating you like you were semi-intelligent.

Why does he have to run from him and GZ can chase him, this is flawed logic that a black male has no right to defend themselves from someone who admitted to getting out on foot to chase him down because he had lost sight. Now read the facts Visible.

Visible, I don't think that white man will ever know what its like to be the one not in the power position in this country. You come across as a racist, asserting GZ's white daddy genes superiority and thus right to do whatever he wanted to TM. That is how you come across to me, so you can conclude I am not a college graduate but I am. You can conclude that I am too dumb to understand what defense is, I just see defense as a two way street. You see defense as a white mans game.

The judge has stated that GZ was trying to flee the country to avoid prosecution and that his entire family is discredited because they all knew GZ had money. That's a pretty damning opinion of Zimmerman et al.

I think his case will fall apart. A report from a physician's assistant that was not even based on an examination is hardly documented proof of injury. If TM was bashing his head into concrete, GZ should have certainly been x-rayed for a concussion. A bloody nose is no reason to kill anybody.

GZ initiated a deadly chain of events and for all his supposed training as a watchman, he didn't even follow protocol and identify himself.

As for people who are whining about GZ having funds to defend himself, do you realize that most people are tried in court without benefit of attorney? If he can't afford an attorney, the court will appoint one for him. That's why we have legal aid.

The utter lack of logic on this board is terrifying as well as the prejeudiced view that only black people engage in crime. There is no twisted way to cheer GZ having killed a kid...unless you think that it's okay to kill black kids because they just deserve it.

Visible, Obama was asked a question by a reporter and responded in sympathy to his parents. Yes that makes him a GOD AWFUL president, having sympathy for parents who lost their child for no real good reason. Again, showing your racist superiority, keep up that cheering section for the black person hunting grounds called Florida. Its however repugnant.

@Jan,

I could give a rat's ass what color either of them are. You can doubt me, call me a racist - whatever you like. No matter what I say, you won't believe me. The cry of "racism" is all you have, so I guess that's why you'll use it. You don't care if it's true or not. It just shows your ignorance, so it actually makes me smile.

All the nonsense you're posting just shows one thing - you're just angry that a black kid is dead. You don't care what he did to cause it. If it were a white kid, you'd be nowhere to be found. You can deny it, but you'll be lying.

I HATE overreaching prosecution, period. I hate mob justice. Color means nothing. Don't believe me, I don't care. Trust me, you've never walked in my shoes either.

I thought we lived in a country where a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty? Did he lie to the judge before? Yes, and that was a stupid thing to do. But WHY did he lie? Because he believes he is not guilty, the police initially felt he was not guilty, had been back home for nearly a month after the confrontation, and was now in jail and didn't want to stay there.

He SHOULDN'T have lied but put yourself in his position. He felt he was attacked, and the police agreed, but here he is a month later in jail. He wants to bond out and didn't want the judge to know he had money to bond out or the bond would have been raised. Again, it was STUPID!! But understand WHY he lied.

And what is the purpose of bond? If you are not a threat to yourself or society a bond is a financial amount to guarantee you will show up to trial. Was GZ a danger to himself or society? NO!! In fact he had ALREADY been out almost a month after the confrontation and had not injured himself or others. So now he is arrested (let's not get into THAT debate at this time) and wants to get out. A large bond wasn't and isn't necessary. He is not a flight risk. He was already out once and then twice.

End result is he is out now but I worry about the trial. I don't see any way he can be found guilty of second degree murder. That requires "intent". Maybe Manslaughter or Involuntary Manslaughter but there is NO evidence he intended to kill Trayvon Martin. Should he have followed? Probably not. But he "lost" TM and was heading back to his truck. TM confronted GZ. This is not opinion and is admitted by both police and defense.

What happened after the confrontation only one person knows for sure and that is GZ. GZ says he was jumped. Others believe TM confronted and that started aggression by GZ. Either way second degree murder is not applicable. I really worry that GZ will be found not guilty and we will have country wide riots like we did in the 90's with the Rodney King incident. But this will be far worse. This will last longer and be much nastier. Many people will die. And for what? Because some have turned this into a "racist" incident when there is no basis for "racism". I am not looking forward to the day GZ is found not guilty because a good portion of the country will be on fire and in riot............

I fully admit that murder 2 is an overreach, I have openly said that I like the police said that night, that they felt it was manslaughter. GZ had acted recklessly by following him, and not making the choice to identify himself. I am siding with the guy who was walking down the street doing nothing wrong, and who is now dead. Not because he is black but because he was a human life that is wasted for no real reason.

@Jan, please don't get me going on the Obama thing. I was a big fan of his, right up until the moment where he injected race into a state matter where he knew very little about the facts.

If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.

What insane twisting of words can you do to say that is not injecting race? Can you FATHOM a situation where a white kid was killed by a black neighborhood watch guy and a WHITE president made that comment??? SERIOUSLY? The world would literally explode and he'd be forced to resign within weeks. Be honest with yourself - you know it's true.

Of course, now you'll say I'm racist for even mentioning race - but I only mention it because I'm floored by the fact that our president did it. Racial profiling, discrimination and "side-taking" has no place in our society. Period.

How would you have reacted if a white president said that about a white kid? He was personalizing a parents grief, in my opinion, not making a racial commentary.

Forced to resign for having compassion for grieving parents, yeah this world is really screwed up.

VisibleTruth: So correct. Just IMAGINE if a white person had been robbed by a black person and George W. Bush made a comment about the white person "If I had a son, he'd look like....". The media would go CRAZY!! Screaming racism!! Of COURSE Obama injected race into this situation!!

No it became about race when Fox news chose to infer that, I don't feel that the implication was there.

So TM who has no history of violence is a thug because he is black and GZ who has a well documented history of violent crimes, is not because is part white? I am not sure your logic Fed.

What kind of country do we live in that we can't be safe to walk home from getting tea and candy without getting shot and people justify it? We are starting to feel like the middle east.

@Jan - are you honestly saying that Obama's statement about how his son would look was not about race? Seriously? Do you think he would say that about a white kid? If your answer is "no" then you have to admit it was about race.

Visible I think people of same races identify with people of the same race, so would if a white president said it about a white child, I wouldn't think anything of it either. I don't assume the worst I guess and the fox spin machine was equally as fault for this racially motivated outcry.

@Jan, we live in a country where if you're assaulted, bleeding, screaming for help and getting your head bashed on concrete, you have a right to defend yourself.

Please stop glossing over the assault and focusing on the Skittles. It's ridiculous.

Here is something we need to consider to bring us back to the subject of Zimmerman-------

.

.

.

.

----George Zimmerman Reenacts Shooting of Treyvon Martin for Police at Crime Scene (Part 1)

Watch and listen closely to Part 1 of the video (starting at around 4:20/ of 7:13---

-----*Before getting to the club house, Zimmerman says, "Yes, I called the non-emergency number and when I got through (I think he means to the dispatcher), I parked at the clubhouse.

.

-------When the investigator parks at the clubhouse where GZ had parked (on the night he shot Trayvon),

-----------------the investigator asks, "And this is where you GOT OUT?"

------GZ say, "NO." almost in a panicked tone.

*GZ follows his "No!" with, "This is just where I stopped to call."

***First he said he called the dispatcher and reached the dispatcher before he parked at the club house.

***Then he says No I did not get out after I parked at the club house. I called the dispatcher when I parked.=

***********Within one minute he contradicts himself to the investigator who is driving GZ in the car! .

********************************************************************************************************

GZ at that time did not know that the investigators had ALL the clubhouse's security tapes!

GZ did not know that the investigator had just NAILED GZ! GZ INDEED did get out after he parked at the cubhouse! (as proven by the clubhouse video we all watched this morning.)

Daily Kos: Videos show Zimmerman walking around the clubhouse ...

... if a white president said it about a white child, I wouldn't think anything of it either.

I'm sorry, but that's a blatant lie. I would think it was injecting race. The grand master of the klan would think it was injecting race.

I wish people would identify themselves as humans, or at least Americans (if they live in America, of course). A lot of racism is perpetuated by side-taking. It needs to end.

No it isn't a lie because I am a white woman that looks at a white child and I could identify more personally with that as a parent than I could with a child that couldn't be mine.

I am not glossing over that fact but that altercation never had to happen had he followed guidelines and police advice.

Jan-21270

No it isn't a lie because I am a white woman that looks at a white child and I could identify more personally with that as a parent than I could with a child that couldn't be mine.

You basically just defined racism. Congratulations.

Your definition of racism is faulty, its normal for people to identify with people on racial, religious and other lines. That is a normal human response, so if I am guilty of anything its of being normal. I don't think black people are less than me, we are all human beings but you are taking all cultural factors out of the equation when you say that. Its simply not realistic.

I am not glossing over that fact but that altercation never had to happen had he followed guidelines and police advice.

You're going in circles. "Guidelines" and "advice" are not laws. That is the bottom line. Did George do a stupid thing? Yes. Did he break any laws? No. Did Trayvon assault him? Yes. Did he assault him for a prolonged period and cause GBI? Yes. The rest is irrelevant.

TO: VisibleTruth who wrote:

"@American Girl, Seriously? You just dodged the definition of "child" from the LEGAL DICTIONARY, then keep trolling around here throwing out the word just to incite more hate? You are truly scum.

In addition to being a lying piece of trash, you are making yourself look like a complete idiot:

THE VOTING AGE IS 18 NOT 21..."

Well, because of Zimmerman, this child will never have the chance to vote, nor was he of legal age to do anything else on his own.

As for all this "hate" you speak of, what could possibly be more "hateful" than a bunch of racists trying to justify the cold blooded killing of a 17 year old boy, not to mention the names you've called this poor kid, and even your denial that this child was not yet even an adult?

Creep.

Visible it all goes to recklessly leading to someones death, that altercation should never have happened and by Florida laws had TM had a gun he would have been justified in killing someone who has been following him, he was afraid, he told his girlfriend he was afraid. I would have been afraid, so he could have stood his ground but he can't throw a punch? The laws there are mind boggling.

@Jan,

I don't think black people are less than me, we are all human beings but you are taking all cultural factors out of the equation when you say that. Its simply not realistic.

Sure, just like people from different schools, wearing different colored hats, smokers v. non-smokers. Sure, people tend to take sides. I'm just saying it's totally inappropriate for the president to do so on television, relating to an already racially charged matter.

We needed Obama in 2008, but this was a major lapse in judgement in my opinion. Romney scares me too, but at least I haven't seen him do something quite that stupid.

Jan,

Trayvon had every right to walk home in the rain after buying candy and iced tea, I'll give you that. But you'll also have to admit that Zimmerman had every right to go up to a stranger in his neighborhood and ask him what he was doing.

Trayvon did not have the right to punch Zimmerman and, unless you can prove Zimmerman initiated the physical altercation (by pushing or grabbing Trayvon), I don't see how you can dis-prove the claim of self defense.

The only reason Zimmerman was charged was because of the race of the two people involved. That is racism and it has no place in our justice system.

Jan-21270 "His actions, violated the watch guidelines and he didn't stop when they told him to stop following him. He got out of his car and initiated a confrontation with the boy. That is reckless"

It might be if any of that is true, but none of it agrees with any of the evidence to date. For example;

When told to stop following Martin, he did and started back to his vehicle to meet the poilice.

Nobody knows for sure who initiated the confrontation, but the evidence and voice stress analysis (a simple lie detector) indicates that it was Martin that initiated the confrontation - after Zimmerman had already stopped looking for Martin.

It was a tragic event, but if people would read the transcript of the police call, perhaps they would do less speculating.

had TM had a gun he would have been justified in killing someone who has been following him, he was afraid, he told his girlfriend he was afraid.

You might want to re-read that law. By this standard anyone could shoot anyone anywhere and it would be legal. Perception of danger is not danger. You can defend yourself from attack, not from fear of an attack.

@American Girl-724855,

So I posted the legal definition of child "14 years and under," yet you still continue to call him one. You are a piece of work.

...nor was he of legal age to do anything else on his own.

Oh, you mean like JOIN THE ARMY? Go look it up, genius.

As for all this "hate" you speak of, what could possibly be more "hateful" than a bunch of racists trying to justify the cold blooded killing of a 17 year old boy

I have publicly chastised people for making racist comments on here. Go ahead and look. But it was not racists that justified the killing of Trayvon - his lengthy, felony Assault with GBI on a man who was breaking no laws justified his killing. It's called basic self defense.

Creep.

If a "creep" is someone who uses logic and reason, then yes, I'm a creep.

jan- you have stooped to a new low...wishing death upon somebody for their post. perhaps you will be banned from this post but unlkely as you are clearly a nonthinking lib which is also what msnbc is....truly sad.

have some more kool-aid american girl....a 6ft child....you do realize that DAILY murders and robberies are committed by these children you speak of.....and in this case, the "child" paid the price and it should happen more often.

jan-no, my definition of racism is clearly not faulty. it is your libtard brain that is faulty. this is evident from your ridiculous posts.... and death wishes? wow, i am still shocked at that one. so sad.

Well you called killing a black kid who was doing nothing but walking down a street trash that deserved to die callingit, I don't own a gun and wouldn't kill someone but I think the world would be better off without that mindset. I would not have said that about Visible.

Visible, define manslaughter, its recklessly causing someones death. Those actions don't have to be illegal to be at least involuntary manslaughter. GZ has wasted his credibility by lying to the judge and they are going to put the neighbor that had said GZ was a ticking time bomb of anger towards black kids that had been breaking in. Clearly TM had nothing to do with those break ins, he lived a significant distance away and he paid the price. Sorry, I don't think your interpretation is going to fly when GZ has shot his credibility.

Call me racist, I know who I am. Call me racist for supporting the president supporting grieving parents. Seriously, get over yourself.

Jan, maybe if you watch Fox News, you might have a clue of whats going on. ABC, NBC,CBS, CNN, all ran out ahead of the story to make this all about a white man killing a black (very rare I might add) and the terrible injustice of it. All 4 made SPECULATIVE ASSUMPTIONS ON WHAT THEY WANTED THE STORY TO BE! Not based on any supporting evidence but for the sole purpose of whipping up race tensions in this country. To this day, 90% of the ill informed still believe the ASSUMPTIONS made by the major media. FOX went out of their way to avoid this and reported only the facts of the case as to what was known. How could I know this, I watch ALL news outlets, even MSNBC. I am beyond appalled by the actions of the major media in this case, actually I'm frightened by this deliberate attemptto drive the news. As a consequence, I cannot trust so much as 1 word from 1 story from any of these outlets. Without a fair, honest, press that reports all news and only the facts, we are royally screwed as a nation. The end result will be civil war and kaos.

I don't disagree with the media but fox news was as guilty as the others of making this about race from the beginning, I do pay attention.

In fact Hannity went out of his way to make it about race, sorry you are wrong again.

The fact is that he was 17 and died in the street, reported missing that night and was in the morgue three days with a cell phone with his parents number in it, and no one bothered to find out who he was. This case was so badly handled, its not about convicting GZ, its about treating people like human beings and not street trash.

A mighty high bail for a person with no chance of a conviction.

Visible read the castle part of the law, if you have reasonable fear, you can shoot and kill someone whether you have other means of escape of not. That is only in Florida, how is being chased by someone not going to make him afraid, he told his girlfriend he was afraid, by the castle part of the stand your ground TM could shoot to kill and be justified. He didn't have to run.

Fox news posts honestly? do you realize that studies show that fox news viewers are less educated on issues than people that never read or watch the news? They spin and lie for the right, like MSN spins and lies for the left.

Visible, define manslaughter, its recklessly causing someones death.

The point you're missing is that Trayvon caused his own death. George didn't cause Trayvon to assault him. He may have caused the circumstances to be in place, but Trayvon chose to assault him on his own free will. This distinction is why you're wrong.

GZ has wasted his credibility by lying to the judge and they are going to put the neighbor that had said GZ was a ticking time bomb of anger towards black kids that had been breaking in.

He definitely damaged his credibility, but I don't think any reasonable person wouldn't understand why a man being hunted by a mob was afraid the court would take the only money he had to defend himself. If they didn't specifically ask me, I probably wouldn't have brought it up either - although I would have told my lawyer. Again, I'm not saying he's a genius.

And that "neighbor" was never identified. It could have been Trayvon's mom calling for all the prosecutor knows. This may change, and there might be a real person there to testify. That would be bad for George, no question. But in the eyes of the law, it wouldn't have mattered if he was wearing a pointy white hat and carrying a torch - he was assaulted, had reasonable fear that his life was in danger, and was legally carrying a firearm. No matter how you try to spin it, it's self defense.

Actually I saw the neighbor interviewed on television, he was very real. You deny that TM didn't have reason to be afraid too? Sorry, I disagree, involuntary manslaughter at the least. His actions were reckless and stupid and led to that altercation that could have easily been prevented.

However if I were a juror on the case I would likely find murder 2 an overreach that is not provable, there is no way to prove intent. So if I didn't have the option to lower charge I would probably have to let him go.

I think any reasonable person would tell him that lying to a judge is suicidal in a case where your credibility is all you have. If his lawyer or father told him to lie, they were woefully misguided. That website and the money in it was widely known on the internet before the bail hearing he lied at.

Jan, that is the most posts of ??? I have ever see on the vine. Are you OK baby?? Don't get sick over a news event........

lol yeah I will get bored and move on to other things

iwonder- i am with you on the sentiment....unfortunately here in the u.s. right or wrong has little to do with conviction. race, gender, money, politics all play a much larger role than right or wrong. and in this case race is the key (well, was the key when zim was reported as being a white man, now that it is known he is hispanic, i'm not sure what to say)

if another black man had killed trayvon, this would never have made the news....if trayvon had killed a white man, this never would have made the news.....but obummer, libloons and the sleazy media made this into the circus it is.....strictly because of race. pathetic.

He actually didn't lie, he just didn't interrupt the proceeding to divulge information. That's why he's not charged with anything. I understand, he was deemed complicit, which is why he's screwed, but he didn't "lie."

As to his wife lying, the perjury charge was a joke. The prosecution edited part of the transcripts to omit the part below - she offered to get her brother-in-law on the phone to give them the exact amount and they declined:

Q: How much money is in that website right now? How much money as a result of that website was —

A: Currently, I do not know.

Q: Who would know that?

A: That would be my brother-in-law.

Q: And is he — I know he’s not in the same room as you, but is he available so we can speak to him, too, or the Court can inquire through the State or the Defense?

A: I’m sure that we could probably get him on the phone.

Q: Okay. So he’s not there now.

A: No, he is not, sir.

Q: Do you have any estimate as to how much money has already been obtained or collected?

A: I do not.

So they all knew there was money there. Nobody cared to follow up. The perjury charge will be thrown out. Also...

...in a case where your credibility is all you have.

Well, that, all the eye witnesses, injuries, audio recordings, etc. So, credibility and overwhelming evidence are all he has.

I hope that if Zimmerman is found innocent and the truth comes out about this Martin kid he sues the Martin family and everyone who has tried to prosecute him before the trial. Guilty or not everyone is so quick to judge.

How can he get a fair trial anymore when the court of public opinion has tried and convicted him.

"But you'll also have to admit that Zimmerman had every right to go up to a stranger in his neighborhood and ask him what he was doing."

I'm sorry to interrupted your petty squabble going on here, but you are WRONG. Just because something isn't ILLEGAL, doesn't mean you have the RIGHT to do so. You do not have the "right" to walk up to, and question or interrogate people, just because they are in your general "neighborhood". Sure it's not illegal to go and question random people, but it is NOT a RIGHT. You do NOT have a RIGHT to STOP people on the street.

If either party would have identified themselves, this would never have happened. That being said, the responsibility still falls on Zimmerman for following and approaching Martin.

On wikipedia, it states that the neighborhood has issues with break-ins and thefts and that is why the neighborhood watch group was formed in the first place. Apparently, most of the thieves were black. So when Zimmerman said "they", he meant the thieves, but there was definitely some racial profiling when he automatically assumed Marin was a thief.

We don't know if BOTH parties identified themselves. We only know that GZ did not based on his own testimony. TM is not here to tell his side.

According to Martin's friend who was on the phone with him at the time of the confrontation, neither man identified themselves. Martin asked Zimmerman, "Why are you following me?" and Zimmerman asked Martin, "What are you doing here?" right before she heard sounds of struggle and the phone going dead. Who knows, maybe Martin identified himself after the phone call ended, but it appears that the fight and shooting occured shortly after.

Lock him up, toss the key away. This guy is guilty as charged.

Visible Truth and Probusiness - dead on in every post. Jan scares me - ridiculous.

George Zimmerman deserved to receive this second bail hearing. This is a 2nd degree murder charge. If the court disallowed another bail hearing, it would have been a severe case of injustice for G Zimmerman. I am also glad that the Judge providing the defendent such a verbal lashing. Making bail will severly hamper the defense's funding for his defense. Which I also believe is justified.

I am proud that the Martin parents chose to respect the bail decision. Taking the high road is very hard to do... don't believe me???? read some of the vine posts!

Sandras stupidity scares me even more.

What scares me, is a kangaroo Court. And a judge treating as yet, a not yet tried man in a court of law, and a judge denying his rights to have a reasonable bond, as though he were guilty of something. Convicted in a court of law. This is about cringing judges and race.

Zimmerman has not only consistently shown himself to be a liar, but also consistently shown contempt for the rule of law. His disregard for the rule off law, as shown most pointedly in his lying to the court about his finances, marks him as a flight risk.

As for the racists who have convicted the victim based upon the white boy's word -- in spite of the fact that the white boy is a liar: omitting known facts in order to defend Zimmerman is dishonest. As in: lying.

What I did not see the judge write in his theory is that the Zimmerman's did not have access to the money that was donated into a defense fund for Mr. Zimmerman and that even had Mr. Zimmerman decided to take flight, that he would not have been able to take or use the money that had been donated into this fund for that purpose.

The defense should move for a change of venue or have this judge removed at the very least.

Lawyers love this sort of case, a bottomless pit full of gold for them. Whether we get justice is of no consequence. This is time for egos and prejudice. Whatever the outcome there will always be those who think that justice has not been carried out and people were wronged. This incident highlights the divide and disconnect that continues to exist in our society despite the umpteen years of attempts to bridge the gap. The more money is thrown at it the more disillusioned people are.

Hayabusa,

I'd like to respond to your post #1.171:

I'm sorry to interrupted your petty squabble going on here, but you are WRONG. Just because something isn't ILLEGAL, doesn't mean you have the RIGHT to do so. You do not have the "right" to walk up to, and question or interrogate people, just because they are in your general "neighborhood". Sure it's not illegal to go and question random people, but it is NOT a RIGHT. You do NOT have a RIGHT to STOP people on the street.

Something not being illegal means you have that right to do it, as in, "you are legally allowed to do it." That's the literal definition of "not illegal." Things that are not illegal are the things you are allowed to do. You can do anything you want as long as it isn't illegal.

The first illegal thing that can be proven to have happened, is Trayvon punching Zimmerman. That was the trigger for everything.

I'm not saying it's impossible that Zimmerman started the physical confrontation. He may have pushed or shoved Trayvon and Trayvon defended himself. Unfortunately, there were no witnesses to the beginning of the fight so there isn't any way to prove that that's what happened. There is reasonable doubt that Zimmerman acted in self defense, even if he got into the situation by being an idiot.

It's always entertaining here on PMSNBC. Seeing so many of the white Liberals trying so hard to be black to hide their own hate, anger, bias and racism. Of course it's all cleverly hidden behind a veil of social justice nonsense. There is obviously a lot of deep hidden guilt to project so hard on everyone else.

Their indoctrination in the ridiculous notion of political correctness obtunds any common sense they may have had at one point in their lives. The rabid nature of their anger is evidence of their inability to any longer grasp reality. Arguing this case so vehemently while totally discounting the Brian Terry murder is all the proof one needs to see the distortion they suffer.

All you people who talk of justice but collapsed Myspellchecker's comments are committing the greatest injustice of all. He comes in peace and harms no one but you attempt to silence him. Have you no shame?

American Girl had stated that your not an adult until your "21". Hummmn, BS. Your are considered legally an adult at age 18. Your parents then are no longer legally responsible for you. You can enlist in the military service, Got to war, vote for anything on a ballot, old enough to sign contracts for credit cards, loans, home/apt. leases etc..Then only thing you can't yet do is drink alcohol your become a commerical truck driver. Funny how many 15-17 year olds are sitting in prisons, tried as adults for some very serious crimes. 17 is plenty old enough to know right from wrong, is old enough to have some very adult responsibilities such as a job, paying for car ins., heck many 17 and unders are all ready parents. There is nothing that magically occurrs between 17yrs 364 days old and turning 18 that suddenly changes you from an innocent little boy into a full grown man.

Funny how many 15-17 year olds are sitting in prisons, tried as adults for some very serious crimes. 17 is plenty old enough to know right from wrong, skewedworld #1.188

there some 11 and 12 y/o who have been tried as adults. it's apparent that some states consider them "old enough" to be held responsible for serious crimes. however, no one under 18 is executed.

There is nothing that magically occurrs between 17yrs 364 days old and turning 18 that suddenly changes you from an innocent little boy into a full grown man.

although there would still be plenty of maturing to do at 18 y/o for many, i would hope there would be some evidence of increased maturity during the 364 day period from 17 to 18.

however, according to your way of thinking, trayvon would have still had the maturity of a 16 y/o since he had celebrated his 17th birthday only 9 days before he was killed.

Until the Judge announces his ruling in court, it is not known by the clerk, or anyone other than the Judge. It can't be part of the record until it's entered in open court.

he will never be able to hide deep enough for the public to miss him regardless of the courts findings he is a doomed man by his own mishandling of the situation.

AmericaThePoliceState, a doomed man? Yes, if the New Black Panthers have anything to do with it.
Do we really care about Zimmerman? No, of course not. What we care about it the value of "Stand Your Ground."

The so-called "New Black Panthers" are a non-threat/non-issue. They offered a bounty for a citizens arrest of George Zimmerman..there was no death talk involved. This would never have happened if the Sanford police had done their job right in the first place.

No one, including the parents of murdered Trayvon Martin, is calling for the death of George Zimmerman...but people around the world are waiting for justice for Trayvon.

If George Zimmerman is afraid for his life, he is paranoid, and rightfully so (the consequences of a guilty conscience).... anyone would be paranoid knowing that he/she stalked and murdered an unarmed child, trying to get home from the neighborhood store to watch a sports event with his family while on a weekend vacation.

On the other hand, maybe George Zimmerman has no conscience at all..only a sociopath would be concerned with paying household bills with money donated for a defense fund...checking on the balance, while his wife offers him consolation " you're gonna have a great life" she said. I think that society needs protection from George Zimmerman and his wife!

Right Lynsu, George has no reason to fear for his life. That poor couple who's address was tweeted by Spike Lee (and others) as George Zimmerman's, didn't receive any threats and need to move out of their house.

Lysnu...that is some of the funniest @!$%# that I have ever read here.....well done.;)

Ruling should be made on level of hate demonstrated by the general public. Therefore, no bond hearing or trial is required. Uninformed hate filled people have already decided what happened and what should be done and they are supported daily by the media. What a wonderful country.

Apparently the judge stated in his opinion that Zimmerman was caught trying to flee the country to avoid prosecution "but his plans were thwarted."

Hmmm. First he lies, then he tries to run. Maybe he was just looking for the one-armed man.

Ruling should be made on level of hate demonstrated by the general public. Therefore, no bond hearing or trial is required. Uninformed hate filled people have already decided what happened and what should be done and they are supported daily by the media. What a wonderful country.

Yes the NAACP has spoken.

Too damn bad that Zimmerman wasnt at least half black. This entire situation would have never even made the local evening news.

I personally am not black nor white but I want justice for this young man. Fry the fool already.

Zimmerman was NOT acting as a police officer since he did in fact call 911 and had repeated times over the past year. He might have gotten quite annoyed that as of yet no arrests were made for the prior break-ins. If he was a one man posse, he would not have called the police for guidance and instead just hunted down suspicious characters without notifying law enforcement. The 911 person asked him to back off which technically he/she is not a police officer either. So it was just advice with no legal back-up. We still don't know what really happened after that communication.

What we do know is that Martin had a cell phone and was talking with his girlfriend. So if he felt he was in danger he could have used that cell phone to call 911 himself. He didn't. It appears he instead acted alone and decided to confront Zimmerman. Martin could have called his dad that was close by as well. So Martin erred by not doing the right thing himself.

@theboys, dont forget about the lady that was attacked in that area as well.

Here is also a few bits of information that has not made public as yet.

The phone Trayvon was on, what type was it. Most phones you have to physically hang them up, just tossing it down does not hang it up. Even being knocked out of your hand.

How about the fact that the $10000 the black panthers put up is still up, as far as I know. Since there was a big news story about it going up and since then no one said anything about it coming down. Either way, one person like Americathepolicestate, gets the idea to pop Zimmerman a couple of bullets to get the reward even if its not up, since no one has said anything about it.

"theboys".... your an idiot. " It appears he instead acted alone and decided to confront Zimmerman.." I think what you meant to say was, he decided to "stand his ground" and unleash the fury of self-defense on Zimmerman after Zimmerman decided to persue him on foot after Zimmerman said that he was running on the audio tape. Lets not forget Zimmerman ASSUMED Martin was a criminal which he maintained on his walk-through the next day with police since he still was unaware that his father lived in the neighborhood.

Have a nice day my friend.

From the moment the medias showed pictures of a 13 year old Trayvon Martin, mugshot of a then 21 year old George Zimmerman, and edited sound files making George Zimmerman sound like a racist, some people started hating ... and never stopped. Some people have decided that George Zimmerman deserves more hate then Ted Bundy or Clyde Barrow, eventho those 2 men were despicable cold blooded murderers, who killed over and over.

Despite having seen more recent pictures of Trayvon and George, despite being aware that Trayvon Martin was not this innocent and defenseless 13 year old child anymore, they still feel the same way as they did when they thought that Trayvon Martin was this 13 year old child.

Eventho most people are now aware of George Zimmerman's past, of the fact that he was raised in a mixed races family and has black ancestry, of the fact that he helped black people in more then one occasions, they still feel that he is a racist and a criminal.

Despite being aware of some events in Trayvon Martin's past (vandalism and stolen items found in his backpack for example), and of the comments on his Facebook and Twitter accounts, and regardless of his age and height, people still feel that Trayvon Martin was this defenseless 13 year old child. On the other hand there is none of this kindness and understanding for a then 21 year old George Zimmerman (year of the mugshot), who also made some mistakes in his past. They keep mentioning the ex-girlfriend while ignoring the fact that George Zimmerman also filed for a restriction order, which was also granted, they think that being the man he surely was the one who was violent. They keep mentioning an assault on a police officer, while ignoring the fact that he jumped in to help a friend, and that the officer was an undercover agent, therefore not identified as a police officer. They keep mentioning that he must be a "nutjob" because he carried a gun, while ignoring the fact that he bought that gun on the advice of a police officer and to defend his wife and himself against a dog that was aggressive.

All this hate focused on one man they don't even know, on behalf of another person they don't know either, and based on twisted versions of events in his past, and on the belief that he is lying, eventho they don't know the man at all. So why all this hate? the answer is simple: media manipulation.

You don't believe in the power of the medias? ask yourselves why you don't feel the same hate for Cordell Lamar Jude, the man who shot and killed Daniel Adkins (at a Taco Bell in Phoenix, Arizona). This happened around the same time as the Martin/Zimmerman case, but strangely we don't hear about it. Ask yourself why, even after you will have read about this story, you still won't hate Cordell Lamar Jude near as much as you hate George Zimmerman, that is if you feel any hate at all for Cordell.

At least get off the brainwashing wagon for a minute and go sign the petition to help Daniel Adkins family http://www.change.org/petitions/justice-for-daniel-adkins if you care even half as much as you do for Trayvon Martin's family.

Zimmerman now has a $1,000.000 bail.

He and Shellie should have been truthful to the court.

What a mess this "man" has made for himself.

Linsu, "anyone would be paranoid knowing that he/she stalked and murdered an unarmed child"

Too funny, Lin. That child was 6'2" with gold teeth shining and facial tats. It would have scared even a PC progressive like yourself but you simply will not admit it. Remember Zimmerman belonged there. It was Trayvon who was the stranger. I look out if I see strangers in my neighborhood too. I suspect you do as well but just would never admit to it.
I understand.

Travyon would not be dead had Zimmerman not gone out in his zealous search for "criminals," and had Zimmerman obeyed the rules of Community Watch, which forbids a volunteer to carry a gun, and had Zimmerman taken the advice of the 911 responder and backed off.....For heaven's sake, Martin was not waving a shotgun around, nor was he wearing a ski mask nor ws he doing anything but walking around the gated community. More harm is done by busybodies going overboard and stepping outside their area of intelligence and skill to become some kind of "hero" than by those who just call the cops if they see someone suspicioous looking (to some whites, any black person inside a gated community just isn'tnatural and is probably a criminal, but that's your bigoted point of view.) The police are paid by the taxpayers to ivestigate crimes and collar suspected criminals Zimmerman wouldn't let the cops do their job. Hence,.....what we see now. And still, a kid is dead. And Zimmerman, his lying "wife," his wierd judge father are all alive and breathing. That's the bottom line and somebody needs to be convicted and punished for this crime. Second degree murder is better than no charge at all, but Zimmerman had a lot of time to plan his encoounter, almost to the level of first degree...he assumed the kid was up to no good, based on no evidence except that he was black and wore a hoodie. Good god, and some posters on here are whining that Zimmerman has already been tried and convicted in the media? Just like he tried, convited and executed a kid with no evidence whatsover that he was intent or was committing a "crime," except for the crime of being black and youg. I am not black and I am not young but justice or a chance at justice would never have happend in this case if it had NOT been for the media exposing what happened in this sacred gated community. Zimmerman was a danger to others, and to himself evidently. That's the kidn of criteria judges can use to decide whether someone can be forcibly locked away in the nuthouse!!!Better if he'd stayed hom that night with his lying wife.

This case is like the joke about the guy who was found looking for his lost keys under a street lamp when he he knew he dropped them by the bushes nearby.

When asked "Then why are you looking for your keys under the streetlamp?"

He replies,"Because the light is better here."

Nah!
Ziimmermans lawyers are not going to bail him out. They got the $135,000 and that's the last ole Zimmerman will see of that money ..lol

Destiny, how many shows do you do each evening?

Lil' Debbie,

You're extremely judgemental about people you don't know and personally know nothing about.

I'm sure you've told a lie in your lifetime--so that makes you a liar also.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

But then again, there's one in every crowd.

Zimmerman killed that kid because he goaded him into it by stalking him. The kid thought he was going to be robbed or killed by some strange man in a vehicle who was following him. He decided to fight for his life, and lost. Luckily, Zimmerman isn't getting out on bail. He has to put up 10% or $100,000, plus he will need to put up collateral for the bail bondsman in the amount of $1,000,000, which he doesn't have. He barely came up with the $150,000 collateral.

@American Girl

You would obviously have Zimmerman hung, flogged and quartered huh? Because YOU were THERE. YOU KNOW it ALL huh? Good for you...

Should I get on my knees and start praying to you now or wait till God comes so you can kick him in the cajones and take his spot?

George will go free. No court would convict him with all the evidence on his side. It is just grand standing and great for the hungry media and bored minds.

Gary 420

American Girl, he was not a child. He was a full grown 6 foot 240 lb. man.

I feel this case is sad all around, but we don't need any more lies.

You dummy

ORRR Beoweolf, he will be released because some tall 6'3 punk ...

Jan-21270

Martin was 140 pounds, not 240 ...

Mark Taft

That child was 6'2" with gold teeth shining and facial tats.

So let's get the facts per police report and autopsy. The info is referenced if you want to look it up. You can also post your own references if you think they are more valid.

At time of incident
TM: 5' 11", 185 pounds, four inches taller than GZ
GZ: 5'7", 200 pounds, 15 pounds heavier than TM

Maybe the whole case depends on if this "child" was capable of injuring a grown man. And if this "child" was convicted of a previous violent crime. [Which I am sure the judge won't allow the jury to hear].

The only folks that hate Zimmerman are black!

Hardly. It takes just a modicum of intelligence to see through Zimmerman's lies. Oh, and I'm white.

BP the grape got it right! All you Zimmerman loving supporters better dig REAL DEEP!

People look at this like the man was walking down a public street when that just isn't the fact and the rules change. This was a gated community. Why do people pay and extra 800$ more or less per month just for the gate charge in a gated community? For the security the gated community provides. The man, Trayvor Martin, was not a member of this gated community and did not live there as many people have said. he was a visitor. All the crimes that had been happening set aside, he was a visitor at best. Gated communities have watch groups as well as security patrols. Mr. Zimmerman was well within his rights to confront Mr. Martin and would be in almost all gated communities were he out walking alone at night. Any member of the gated community has the right to confront any person they believe to not be an active member of their community and they have the right to ask questions and or have the person removed should they determine this person does not have a permissable reason for being inside their gated community.

Martin was 5 feet, 11 inches tall and weighed 158 pounds at the time of his death.^[31]

TM: 5' 11", 185

With 40lbs of rocks in his pockets ... Trayvon would be hard pressed to weigh 150lbs.

Believe it or not, most kids his size and age wear baggy clothes to disguise just how skinny they are. Healthy teens do not put on weight or "fill out" until they reach their the mid to late 20's.

In the military - I had the privilege of taking several classes of recruits from Basic through to AIT training. After a total of 3 - 5 months we were lucky to get those kids to put on 20 lbs. Granted, at the end, they were leaner, stronger, tougher and had more endurance - but weight, bulk, size - it just wasn't there. Their metabolize and body type doesn't allow it.

People look at this like the man was walking down a public street when that just isn't the fact and the rules change. This was a gated community. Why do people pay and extra 800$ more or less per month just for the gate charge in a gated community? For the security the gated community provides.

Actually it was a public street and Trayvon had every right to walk down it unapproached. People seem to be under impression this was an affluent multi-million dollar community. It certainly wasn't a secure one. Instead of GZ patrolling in this community 'armed', in an attempt to make it more secure, they should've petitioned the HOA to close off access to the side entrance that was regularly used by the residents, and through which Trayvon entered. Since they were renters, I seriously doubt the Zimmerman's were paying an extra 'gate fee'. IMHO, considering they were merely renters, they didn't have much authority over anything (except at 1905/1950 RVC?) and wouldn't have been paying HOA fees.

ETHNICBUTEE

alot of people don't know the difference between property rights on public vs property, which is really sad.

as you noted, zimmerman was on private property and thus did not represent the twin lakes condo association in any capacity from security to a neighborhood watch person.

and because he didnt people dont get that he cant question anyone he wants, his legal remedy was to call the police or get a property manager.

His ego and attitude got him in trouble with a guy he chose to punk, and realized he was out of shape to tangle with.

Once again I need to counter ignorance and lies with a bit of truth. For the 248th time, The picture of Trayvon Martin sitting on the horse that everyone thinks is a old picture when Travon was 13 years old, was actually taken 9 days before he was killed. The pictures of a different Travon Martin with gold teeth are not the same Trayvon Martin, and neither are the posts from a different Trayvon Martins facebook page. And I see that the lies just keep changing. Now all of a sudden he has face tattoos. By the time we are finished, Zimmerman will be the one who got shot, and Trayvon will be a 30 year old 300lb member of the Bloods and Crips at the same time. The world truly has gone crazy.

The only folks that hate Zimmerman are black!!!

I am Not black, Not young, Not Liberal but I hate Zimmerman & don't believe one word that comes out of his mouth. The only two around that night were GZ & Trayvon, GZ could of told 911 anything he wanted to as they were on the phone not actually there EX: 1)He's running & I lost him while all along he never lost sight of Trayvon 2) are you following him ~ yes ~ we don't need you to do that ~ Oh ok ~ then tell police he turn around to go back to his truck while all along he did not stop & turn around but continued following Trayvon..... I am a mother & a Nana & that blooding curdling scream you hear on the 911 tape is that of a young man in fear of & fighting for his life because he was being followed by some strange creepy older guy in a non fimilar place first by vehicle then by foot and was scared ~ DO WE NOT WARN OUR KIDS of STRANGERS ~ I know I do and still do to my 31 yr old daughter & grandsons ~ I tell them u fight, fight & fight some more as Trayvon was doing that night in self defense against GZ the crazy wannabe cop. I know that if trayvon was my grandson GZ would be begging them to keep his a@@ in jail cause I wouldn't need no black panthers to go after him ~ I would do it myself.... I pray to god that Trayvon's parents get the justice they deserve against this creep that killed their son.

The World Is....,

For the 248th time, The picture of Trayvon Martin sitting on the horse that everyone thinks is a old picture when Travon was 13 years old, was actually taken 9 days before he was killed. The pictures of a different Travon Martin with gold teeth are not the same Trayvon

Martin, and neither are the posts from a different Trayvon Martins facebook page.

Thanks! It seems the zimmie lovers, just can't get that through their skulls!

Saint Zimmerliar, is their King.

@hrlynana
The FBI could NOT tell 100% who it was screaming.. I am glad you have magic ears and know for a FACT who was screaming for help..

Oooohh, you MUST have been THERE to know it all.. Are you and American Girl going to testify since you were there and know it all?

One witness reportedly said Trayvon was about to eat the face off of Zimmerman but the Z-man shot Trayvon before that actually happened. Trayvon had dope in his system.

One witness reportedly said Trayvon was about to eat the face off of Zimmerman but the Z-man shot Trayvon before that actually happened. Trayvon had dope in his system mark taft #2.39

just when you think comments on this case can't get any more insanely ludicrous, another one steps up to knock it out of the park.

as someone once put it so well "wow...ah, er...wow."

just when you think comments on this case can't get any more insanely ludicrous, another one steps up to knock it out of the park.

I know...I thought the same thing! But, given Taft's other comments, it wasn't much of a stretch!

WOW...........

@Irene and Jo-Ann, Taft's comment was an attempt at humor. Lighten up.

Search for the story where a drug induced fool tried to chew the face off a guy. That is what Taft was referencing and it went right over your heads.

hahaha...

I'm fully aware of the "bath salts" fool...

yet, it's still NOT funny...

Search for the story where a drug induced fool tried to chew the face off a guy. That is what Taft was referencing and it went right over your heads. dave 2478570 #2.42

we know what he was referring to. there's the 'bath salts' and then i believe another incident where an assailant had attempted to bite someone's face.

i agree with jo an...not funny indeed.

It's o.k., the world will hic-up and I'll be there waiting..

Because people are looking at the facts that have been presented so far does not mean they are "Zimmy lovers". Jesus, hopefully your kind does not ever get summoned for jury duty. The ONLY reason they brought this case this far was because of the protests which they were afraid of rioting. And that reason sucks. Stop letting emotional people take charge. And stop trying to prove to people that this is not a racist country. If people think it's racist, just let them, but business as usual. Who cares what they think? This country will never ever win regarding that. Stop trying at others expense.

Exactly, Sunny. I always believed a person was innocent until proven guilty but the professional left suddenly has abandoned this view. Too funny.

Just calling it like I seez it. What you think about my opinion is none of my business. Peace. :o)

Yes and then some Sunny. I really can't wait for the trial, so the real facts, (not editied or dictated by media) will come out. Zimmerman will never get convicted on 2nd murder.

I bet you never once questioned OJ's innocence, eh Mark? The concept of innocent until proven guilty has to be the most quoted and most poorly understood. He is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law. This is as it should be; no one should be punished by the justice system until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. This does not mean I am not free to consider him likely guilty with a mere preponderance of evidence. And based on the evidence available, he used a deadly weapon to kill an unarmed kid after having made a series of poor decisions to escalate the confrontation.

Where are you people when Casey Anthony and Jerry Sandusky.. I don't think i ever saw a "innocent until proven guilty" rant... yet.. when it comes to this case.. everyone is talking about it.

But sadly, you're right.. he was only arrested and brought to trial because of protests.. That's the sad part... When you see a teenager walking home from the store with candy in his hand, and are recorded saying "these @!$%#s always get away".. and then end up killing that kid minutes later... Don't you think that person should be arrested? Innocent or guilty is not the issue.. he should have been arrested.. it's hard to argue otherwise.

And i'd like to know what "facts" you have... the only FACTS i've been presented with is that GZ was injured and looks like he was beat up... but last time i checked.. just because you got beat up, doesn't mean you didn't start the fight. The only real facts in the case is that Trayvon was walking in the direction of his house from the store with candy in his pocket... GZ said he was suspicious and that "these @!$%#s always get away".. They somehow started fighting, and GZ shot and killed him.

dig deep Zimmy helpers- he needs more of your $ now.

All this talk of "innocent until proven guilty" So why was Trayvon assumed to up to no good? A hoody, on a rainy night? Give me a break. A wannabe rejected cop thought he was suspicious. Hm. Wannabe cop starts acting as if he is a cop and has the right to follow him... Hm. Wannabe is confronted instead of confronting. And the innocent man is shot. George started it.

sharon - Glad you dont find people standing in your neighbors yard looking in their windows suspicious or are you just ignoring that part. I do think most other people would tho just so you know. He also thought he looked like he was on drugs which does seem to have been validated with the fact he had THC in his system. Seem like pretty good reasons to most people I would imagine....

Your Karma is gonna get you. And it will NOT be pretty. When that day comes. Remember what you said here today.

Wow, LT - that is about as disgusting as it gets. Do you know Trayvon Martin to be able to judge him as trash.

Suzie, Karma doesn't have anything to do with it...TM was a thug that attacked a man that was protecting his neighborhood...He had every right to defend himself, and if that means a thug has to die then so be it...Karma isn't anything I'm worried about...

yes, venting...I call it like I see it...suspended from school, thugging around smoking pot and stealing from people...Sounds pretty trashy to me!!!

This case was an issue because the local police department handled the case poorly and his father most certainly made a few calls to get his son off the hook. How can you stand your ground when you are in persuit of the the person you fear? Doesn't make any sense does it? Well that's because Zimmerman should have never been cleared to carry that weapon. Assualting an officer is a felony... felons can't get permits to carry weapons.... unless your Zimmerman who has a father to get you off the hook of course. Thats how a charge like that gets dropped. The result you ask? A person who has anger issues carrying a weapon leaglly around the streets like he is some type of super hero saving his neighborhood from anyone with brown skin. Zimmerman has already lied in court... trial hasnt even begun my friends. Its easy to create a story when you've eliminated the missing piece. By the way... ZIMMERMAN SAID MARTIN REACHED DOWN HIS SIDE FOR HIS WEAPON AND HE THEN PUINCHED HIS HAND WITH HIS INNER ARM... AND USED THAT SAME ARM TO ALSO GRAB HIS WEAPON AT HIS BELT-LINE. Why dont you give that a try and see if that is even remotely possible : ). Nope its not, because your arms at that point is way past your waist line.

LIAR, CONVICT, and throw him to the wolves in prison.

Medina: I was purposely leaving race out of it..

I just trying to say if people are so upset about "Innocent until proven guilty" then why weren't they posting in Sandusky and C.Anthony articles? Why do people bother saying this person is treated unfairly by the media.. but are so certain that Casey Anthony was guilty?

See, i left race out of it.. but you brought it in.. you're the one playing the "race card".. not me.

You can argue all you want that if Zimmerman was black then this case would have never gotten noticed by anyone outside the police... You are probably correct.. But i can just as easily argue that if Zimmerman was black, he would have been arrested and convicted of second degree murder already.. so of course the case wouldn't be public attention...

That's the thing about racism.. it's not always visible.. but it's always there... Please be honest and tell me, do you HONESTLY think that if a Black man with a history of assualting a police officer and his girlfriend, shot a 17 year old white kid with only candy in his hand, after being recorded saying "These @!$%#s always get away".. Would not be arrested? And if he was arrested, WHY would it be public news? Man commits crime, man goes to jail.. happens a thousand times a day.

I'm a 25 year old male WASP, just, for the record.

Sorry Sdot, you are in for a disappointment. I think the trial will be great fun. Of course if they can't find an impartial jury then Zimmerman walks without a trial.
I love life. Don't you?

dan123123123

sharon - Glad you dont find people standing in your neighbors yard looking in their windows suspicious or are you just ignoring that part. I do think most other people would tho just so you know. He also thought he looked like he was on drugs which does seem to have been validated with the fact he had THC in his system. Seem like pretty good reasons to most people I would imagine....

Now the kid was standing in someone yard staring in the window.....honestly if you have to make sh** up just to make your point valid then that says a lot about you. And just for the record it was small traces of THC in his system, not enough to rule out that he was high on the day of the incident. So technically it doesn't validate anything that Zimmerman said not to mention his credibility has been shot to hell so we all know what a huge liar he is. We'll never know what drugs Zimmerman was on the night of the incident because he was never tested so while you'll making false statements about a kid who brutally murdered in cold blood to amuse yourself think about that.

To all those waiting for the 'REAL' facts to come out at trial that will exonerate GZ...Keep on waiting. It's only gonna get worse for GZ, not one piece of evidence released to date supports his claims of self-defense! There's absolutely no forensic evidence to support Trayvon ever laying a hand on GZ, unless he was wearing gloves (maybe you should check with OJ, LOL! Give that one a rest already!). He couldn't even get the reenactment right.

According to GZ: he punched me then mounted me, oh wait...that's not right. He punched me, I stumble 40-50 ft, did couple of sissy moves swatting him away, then I fell and he jumped on me...repeatedly punching me in the face(where's the bruising, broken skin? Somebody please find those gloves!!!). Then he started bashing my head against the sidewalk, covering my bloodied, 'non confirmed', broken nose, and mouth (somehow, miraculously never getting any blood on his hands or anywhere on my clothing, even after letting go of my head to reach for the gun...Did you find the gloves yet?!?!). Even though he was smothering me, and my head felt like it was going to explode, almost loosing consciousness, from the vicious bashing, I still managed to cry/scream for help at least 25 times.

Since you all seemed convinced that it was because of all the marches, protests, etc. that finally got him arrested/charged...maybe you should start your own "FREE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN" protests, see if it works in his favor! But I guess it's easier to hide behind your computers and donated blood money, rather than be seen publicy supporting an admited killer?!

All of you Zimmerman haters, so focused on hating that one guy you don't even know, on behalf of another guy you didn't know either, why don't you go sign the petition to help Daniel Adkins' family (man who got shot at a Taco Bell in Phoenix, AZ), show that you are not brainwashed by the medias, show as much hate to Cordell Lamar Jude (the man who shot him) too ... or love to Daniel Adkins' family, whatever you prefer. Petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/justice-for-daniel-adkins .

If you are worried about clicking on a link the petition is easy to find, just do a search for Criminal Justice Petition - Justice for Daniel Adkins.

All of you Zimmerman haters, so focused on hating that one guy you don't even know, on behalf of another guy you didn't know either, why don't you go sign the petition to help Daniel Adkins' family (man who got shot at a Taco Bell in Phoenix, AZ), show that you are not brainwashed by the medias, show as much hate to Cordell Lamar Jude (the man who shot him) too ... or love to Daniel Adkins' family, whatever you prefer. Petition: .

If you are worried about clicking on a link the petition is easy to find, just do a search for Criminal Justice Petition - Justice for Daniel Adkins.

Okay first of all Anna, this case is entirely different. This man walked up to the vehicle and started assulting the driver and yelling at him. if i'm in a car with my family and some strange man comes up to my car and starts attempting to assult me, I am going to take measures to protect my family. So try again.

It is my understanding that that paypal fund was supposed to be for his DEFENSE, not for BAIL.

It took 2 second mortgages to come up with 15K? Really?

His wife used the money to pay off credit cards, not to pay his attorney. In fact, his attorney claims he was not initially aware of the Paypal account. I am sure those who donated to his "defense" will defend the decision to use the money for personal expenses.

He stated it was for living expenses as well to use as he deemed necessary. Sorry you don't like it but that's what it was. They accounted for all the money so can we move on? Want to talk about the moon landings now or get with the present?

Dan, did people really donate money to someone who stated he would "use it as he deemed necessary"?

Wow. I work way too hard for my money to spend it so foolishly.

They were just trying to support a national hero.. he did kill a black kid, aka thug... It's weird.. i tried to not play the "race card" but it's physically impossible if you state the facts.

You really think he cares about being a cop right now? I doubt it.

And bail, he'll make bail and parents - their kids lie to them all the time - and they still forgive them and help them out, so no issue there.

He'll get out, wait and see.

People have the right to spend their money as they wish.

What you think is foolish, someone else thinks is prudent.

Personally, I think it's foolish to spend money on an IPhone, but 4+ million people think differently.

Who are you to judge people who wish to donate to GZ, their business--just like how you spend your money is your business.

It's a shame when a kid can't put a hood on his head while it is raining and not thought to be suspicious. It is sad that people will go through someones background to decide if what happened to that person is justified. No one has yet laid out what this kid did that evening that entitled a non-cop to follow and shoot him.

Anyone? Anyone?

Ummm - yeah, BP the grape - ask any cop who has patrolled the streets of an urban city what their thought process is when someone they are attempting to stop or make contact with suddenly takes off running. Why did TM take off running after he passed by GZ, who was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher??? You can't chase someone who isn't running, and if you're innocent and have no reason to fear a "fat old white guy", then you will hang around and wait for the police to arrive, since you know they have been called. And if you are scared of the "fat old white guy" and you DO run away from him, you don't circle back around to confront him, sucker punch him, climb on top of him and commit a felonious assault on that person. You can't have it both ways - either TM was being a typical thug who thought he could beat down anyone he met, and in that mode of thought attacked and assaulted GZ or he was a scared person who ran because this stranger was "following him" - something that did not in fact occur. GZ exited his vehicle and followed TM AFTER TM TOOK OFF RUNNING and after GZ informed the 911 Dispatcher of that fact. And TM didn't know GZ had a gun - or he wouldn't have taken his sucker-punching punk ass back to attack GZ. Or there is one other logical explanation as to why he would do that - he knew that he would die, and wanted to. Any way you look at it, you should first get your facts straight. Don't forget the intervening event in the timeline - it should read more like this:

1. a non-resident thug was acting suspiciously after dark in a rainstorm
2. the non-resident thug hears a non-cop citizen watchman call the police as he walks by the non-cop in the non-cop's legal and gated, private community.
3. the non-resident thug adds to the cause for suspicion by running away from the non-cop watchman
4. the non-cop watchman follows after several seconds as he talks to police dispatch
5. the non-resident thug doesn't do any of the things an ordinary, innocent, law-abiding citizen would do in such a case - he doesn't go to the alleged condo of his fathers sometimes girlfriend where no adult was waiting for him, because no adult was there and he doesn't call the police, as a normal person would do if someone started chasing them for no reason whatsoever. NOPE... Instead, he circles back and confronts the non-cop watchman, committing felony assault on that non-cop watchman.
6. the non-cop watchman pulls his unseen gun and shoots the unwise street thug, killing him
7. the non-resident thug got what he had coming to him...

Let's not forget that this non-resident thug had committed a very similar "sucker punch" assault on an Orlando Transit bus driver two days earlier - a fact that you want to ignore as well - then bragged about it in texts to his thug gangstas.

Oops - I forgot to mention under #5 above that the non-resident thug calls his non-present "shortie" and tells her he will not run away from the non-cop watchman - instead, he is going to confront the non-cop watchman and "find out wtf his problem iz..." Sounds like intent to initiate contact with someone for an express intent and purpose....

What is a shortie"?

a doobie? Joint?

@Dean A Glenn

Good Lord Dean, everything you stated, is in fact - A NON FACT!!!!

Let's not forget that this non-resident thug had committed a very similar "sucker punch" assault on an Orlando Transit bus driver two days earlier - a fact that you want to ignore as well

And where is the 'bus driver' Trayvon is supposed to have 'sucker punched', to corroborate the fact we seem to ignoring?!?!?! Better yet, where's the police report he would've filed for assault? Last I heard Trayvon was from Miami.

DEAN

you seem a bit backwards, your assumption that a THUG martin had less right to be there then Zimmerman had to confront him is so off.

Zimmerman didnt have any authority to question anyone. Do you know that there are like 235 townhomes in that complex -- that means zimmerman would have to ask alot of people who or where or what they were doing!!

but he didnt and hasnt. Because it wasnt about policing, it was about zimmerman punking a black kid until he realized he was out of shape and bit off more then he could chew!!

If you guys want to make up @!$%# then I can too. You say Trayvon doubled back to beat up Zimmerman, I say Zimmerman cornered him, smacked the phone out of his hand, and Trayvon punched him in self defense. Zimmerman getting his fat ass kicked, pulled out the gun and killed Trayvon Martin then hollared self defense to the police. More lies: Zimmerman is an honest man and never lied to the judge about his finances, and the second passport he kept in the safe deposit box, thats a lie too he never intended to leave the country if things started going bad for him. See? I can tell lies to make everything sound the way I want them as well!

Dale the problem is that Zimmerman is the assailant, not a random victim standing his ground. A good case can be made he stalked Martin and approached him with a fire arm, who then fought back in fear of HIS life. That Zimmerman was injured is irrelevant, had he not accosted Martin nothing would have happened.

As for Bond, Zimmerman has a demonstrated propensity to lie to the the Court, his own attorney, and to engage in duplicity to try and hide money and a second passport. Judges do not take kindly to such activity by some one asking for bond..

Which passport? he has several.

Great post Dale.

Yes, great post Dale. I laugh at these people who are calling for Z's head without really knowing all the facts. Just let the court decide, shall we?

Cynic,

Dale the problem is that Zimmerman is the assailant, not a random victim standing his ground. A good case can be made he stalked Martin and approached him with a fire arm, who then fought back in fear of HIS life. That Zimmerman was injured is irrelevant, had he not accosted Martin nothing would have happened.

And what makes you think GZ accosted Martin? Did Martin have any injuries (other than the gunshot and the scrape on his knuckle from punching GZ)?

If someone is following you, it does not give you the right to physically attack them. And if someone is following you with a gun drawn, as you seem to suggest, you definitely should not confront them, unless you have a death wish.

death upon conviction by Public execution.

AmericaThePoliceState - During your extremely short tenure on Newsvine, you have made this comment not only on every column upon which you have commented, but several times within those different columns. regardless of context.

Please stop. It's becoming tiresome.

Oh, and PS: Comment spamming is a CoH violation.

George Zimmerman is going to get what's coming to him..He killed someone and It was'nt self defense..He did'nt even follow the rules of a neighborhood watchman, which specifically states "To wait for Police", not to act on your own judgement. He got out his car with his gun. He could have easily avoided that altercation but stating who he was and that he was just concerned about the recent break ins in that neighborhood..This is America and we can walk, run and do whatever we want to do and should not have to explain to anyone about what we are doing in any neighborhood..It's none of your business unless you are breaking a law..I bet George would'nt have stop me and followed me..6'4 240lbs of muscle...

Just want to point out that Martin's exercise of poor judgement is understandable; he was 17 years old. I don't know many 17 year olds that exercise great judgement in most situations, let alone one in which they are being followed by a portly looking stranger on a dark and rainy night. There are many hot headed young people that may have reacted similarly (ie confronting a potential assailant when feeling scared for ones life).

Zimmerman's excercise of poor judgement is much, much less excusable, given that he is 28 years old, 11 yrs Martin's senior. It's never a good idea to follow a 6 ft tall stranger on a dark and rainy night, esp one that you don't see actually doing anything wrong. However, knowing you have a gun that can get you out of just about any potential violent confrontation sure might bolster your bravado and make you feel empowered to act in a reckless manner, even when you're almost 30, have a family to worry about and really should know better.

I just don't understand how any one can be so ready to excuse the grown-up's behavior in the situation but not the teenager's behavior?!?! You don't have to be a "Tryvonite" to know who really should have exercised the best judgement and who really is responsible for what happened that night.

And as far as Zimmerman's bail, $1M seems reasonable considering the violent nature of the offense, the fact that until charges were brought Zimmerman was able to hide so well (he has familial ties to a foreign country which I do not believe has an extradition treaty with the US -not 100% sure of this, tho), and his history of lying about the paypal money (I don't understand how only his wife is brought up on perjury charges; it seems he is guilty of at least suborning her perjury, IMO). It certainly should be a high amount as he is both a possible flight risk, and a possible risk to others, given his continual exercise of poor judgement.

Martin exercised even worse judgement. Confronting a stranger who is following you, on a dark rainy evening, is never a good idea

But Martin is black so he's above criticism about his actions.

If Zimmerman would have done what he was told by the actual police then none of this would have happened at all ...he was told not to follow him, and not to confront him. He didnt listen and went against what he was told he knew he was armed and had INTENT to confront the teen..if anyone had the right to invoke "stand your ground" it was trayvon martin...Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck and WATCHED like a night WATCHMAN is suppoesed to do...not to mention that it stated clearly in the rules for the watchman that they are not to be armed.

You cant get out of your truck go stalking a person go against what your instructed to do and then cry foul when you start getting your a$$ kicked because you couldnt mind your own business..The entire thing should have and could have been avoided. Zimmermans actions that lead up to the shooting are why it is 2nd degree murder...the only ground GZ had to stand on was the ground at his truck if Trayvon would have came to his truck and assaulted GZ then he would have had all right to claim self defence and stand your ground...GZ bit off more then he could handle and and deserves prison for it

ScubaSteve, if Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin, then Martin would have been within his rights to defend himself. The fact is that Zimmerman admitted to pursuing Martin, which makes him the initiator of the altercation. He cannot claim SYG under florida statute because you do not get protection if you initiated the altercation UNLESS.... You are in fear for your life AND you have exhausted all other avenues including fleeing.

The fact is that Zimmerman admitted to pursuing Martin, which makes him the initiator of the altercation.

He may have admitted that followed Martin, but he never admitted to catching him. In fact on the phone call, he admits to losing sight of Martin shortly after being told to stop following.

And let's look at this statement:

UNLESS.... You are in fear for your life AND you have exhausted all other avenues including fleeing.

I think being pinned to the ground and being punched in the head satisfies those conditions.

Not when he made no attempt to avoid the situation. How many terrified screams for help were there on the 911 call? How much time passed when Trayvon was that scared? That alone tells me that Zimmerman pulled the weapon, and took several seconds before pulling the trigger, which is enough to to try to get away. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Again, I will wait for the REST of the facts to come in, but Zimmermans story keeps developing more holes in it.

ChrisFromCincy,

No one has determined who was yelling on those tapes. It could just as easily be Zimmerman screaming as Trayvon is punching him.

If I assume that it is Zimmerman screaming, I could say that he tried for 40 or so seconds to get help and get away before being forced to use his weapon and thus qualifies for self defense.

You end your comment by saying you are going to wait for the facts but you begin it by making assumptions not based in fact.

So Sema,

The fact that GZ was older means he should have just let TM beat the crap out of him, because he's 17 and doesn't know any better?

Come on, what does age have to do with violence and assault? Absolutely nothing...look at how many "kids" as people like to call him have murdered their parents and total strangers.

I tell you what, next time you get jumped in a parking lot late at night, make sure you look at your attackers really well and if they are young, then do nothing and just let them beat the crap out of you, because of course, you're the older adult and they just don't know what they're doing.

What world do you live in, because I live in the REAL world, not fantasy land.

No ScubaSteve. Audio experts independently verified that the voice on the call was not Zimmerman. I am drawing my own conclusions based on the evidence that has been released. And you still fail to recognize that you are drawing your conclusions solely on the word of the killer. Nice double standard. May I remind you that there is no evidence that he was pinned to the ground and punched repeatedly in the face, and his head slammed on the concrete. He had a couple of minor scrapes. That does not answer as to how they got there.

Dale, you don't need a passport to become a flight risk. Look at Sonny Bulger. He was on the lam for many years while chilling out in sunny California in an upscale apartment. You also don't need a passport to travel to Mexico. He may as well get out and live it up while he can, because after the trial, he is going to get at least 30 years in prison for killing that boy for no apparent reason, or reasons he put into play.

ChrisFromCincy,

Uninvolved audio experts used the audio analysis software they were selling to "determine" who it was. The FBI was unable to determine who it was for several reasons. I'm pretty sure the FBI trumps some guys trying to sell their software.

As far as evidence that he was on the ground getting punched, there was the witness statement that he say Trayvon on top "throwing MMA style punches" and I'm pretty sure the cuts on Trayvon's knuckles prove how Zimmerman's injuries got there so....

This entire bail deal was orchestrated by this administration...Remember bo said he would look like his son. Zimmerman will never get a fair trial.. The panthers should have been arrested for their bounty and other issues.. This is a lop sided case and you can thank the bo administration along with all the race baiting people.

Kimbo47, The fact that GZ is older means he should not have even been following a 6 ft tall stranger on a dark and rainy night and that maybe if he wanted to know who this stranger was and what he was doing in the neighborhood, he should have let the stranger know who he was and ask. I celarly state where I think Zimmerman used poor judgement, which is way before it got to Treyvon (possibly) assaulting him. Again, Zimmerman should have never followed a tall stranger on a dark and rainy night, esp a stranger who is not engaged in committing a crime. Zimmerman was old enough to know that that is simply not prudent behavior, in any cuircumstance. And YES-age does matter in THIS scenario. Kids that kill their parents is a whole 'nother topic and has NOTHING to do with this conversation. Stop obfuscating the issue with unrelated matters. The facts remain an adult male followed a teenager who was not engaged in commission of a crime, but who was only walking home from the store. This teen could easily have felt threatened by whomever was clearly following him. Being young, he may have easily overreacted in a moment of fear and attacked the person following him, a husky adult who did not even announce himself, at least as far as I know. Of the information leaked and released so far, I don't remember reading or hearing of any indication that the adult ever attempted to inform the teen of who he was, or his reason for following the teenager (ie-the adult never said, "hey, excuse me young man. I'm with the neighborhood watch. I want to warn you I'm armed. I simply wanted to ask your business in the neighborhood, as I've never seen you around before and there have been a bunch of recent robberies). That would have been the adult and responsible thing to do if Zimmerman felt he had to know what Martin was up to (because walking down the street is such suspicious behavior that it warrants being stopped by neighborhood watch). Instead the adult follows the teen in quiet stealth, calls 911 then does not listen to the 911 operators recommendation to cease following the teen. He continues his pursuit, thereby provoking any ensuing confrontation. Zimmerman had ample chances to cease following the teen or to just simply let the teen know who he was and ask about the teens business in the neighborhood. But he didn't. All logic dictates that he holds more culpability than the youngster, who initially in all this was only walking home from the store.

c'mon racists repugs...dig deep into your pockets and send zimmie some bucks!

As far as evidence that he was on the ground getting punched, there was the witness statement that he say Trayvon on top "throwing MMA style punches" and I'm pretty sure the cuts on Trayvon's knuckles prove how Zimmerman's injuries got there so....

@scubasteve - the witness you mention recanted his statement that over exaggerated about 'MMA' style punching, and there was only 1, very small cut on the finger, not knuckles.

There was a half an inch cut on his left ring finger (IIRC). That's the kind of cut you would expect to get from punching someone.

As far as the witness is concerned, I'm aware he changed his story several months after the fact and once he had seen most of the media coverage and evidence. However, most people's memories don't get better as time goes on, they get worse. I'm more inclined to believe his original statement to police (given before the media frenzy and before they had even identified Trayvon) over the statement he gave 3 months after the fact.

Jean-982597

Zimmerman will never get a fair trial.. The panthers should have been arrested for their bounty...

The other day those panthers bragged that the bounty for Zimmerman, dead or alive, is now 1 million dollars. Wonder how many of those anti-Whites and anti-Hispanics (who are criticizing donating to the defense fund) have donated to the 'let's kill Zimmerman' fund.

Some might say it's not for killing him, but would be given just to capture him and to turn him into the authorities. If it would be given for that, shouldn't it be given to Zimmerman, since he turned himself in to the authorities? If these Obama-supporters get him murdered before he goes to court (Since the offer is still valid), will his bail be forfeitured?

This entire bail deal was orchestrated by this administration...Remember bo said he would look like his son. Zimmerman will never get a fair trial.. The panthers should have been arrested for their bounty jean #5.21

for all the pissing and moaning the right has done about the left blaming everything on geo bush, then you come out spewing this political nonsense. president obama has way too much to do fighting off those the lovers of the rich, rabid republican jackals to bother getting deeply involved in domestic issues such as this. get real.

casey anthony managed to be found not guilty of every single major charge against her and she was named "the most hated woman in america".

i do agree if the panthers truly put out a bounty on geoz's head, they should be punished.

if the judge states that he has the option of denying geoz for lying to the court and feels geoz may be a possible flight risk but still chooses to grant him bail i don't think camp 'z' has much to worry about as far as how things will turn out for geoz.

we can only hope, right Corie? I say let him out on no bail and let raw justice take care of him. It will

Rick, you're a liar. I'm a liar. We are all liars at one time or another.
Get my drift?

Probably true Mark. The difference being, most of us are not stupid or arrogant enough to lie under oath in a court of law. The Zimmerman's, Mr. and Mrs., are the epitome of stupid to think they would be able to lie to a judge and get away with it.

I think it is easy for us to sit in our computer chairs and comment on someone else, but you cannot be critical without asking how you would handle the situation under the circumstances that have occurred. We don't know what we would do under these circumstances that GZ finds himself. I don't think our imaginations could help us with this as we don't know everything that is weighing in on the situation. As well, has everyone on here who comments ever lied? If you have I think that makes you unqualified to criticize anyone else.

Time to leave the decision for the courts and allow the facts to come out there.. jmho

@ Shellie, have you been in a courtroom before ? I have seen lawyer doing just that, lie after lie after lie. even after you bring proof that it was a lie then the Judge (which happen to be in good term with some lawyers) just dismiss your proof (on paper) I have NO trust in the so-called Justice system (at least civil court) to me it is just a big circus and the judge is the ring leader.

The Zimmerman's, Mr. and Mrs., are the epitome of stupid to think they would be able to lie to a judge and get away with it.

Unless you're black and then you're entitled and anyone who disagrees with you is a racist.

medina, exactly right.

Apparently doesn't matter, does it?

He got bail.

And he will walk.

Could you imagine being the sucker that donated to this moron who gives gun rights a bad name only to have that money used to get him out of jail for LYING to a judge???

That would be embarrassing...

Zimmerman is innocent, until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Oh lawdy lawdy, I saws it all!!

Dat Zimmerman be done killing that innocent black child!

Steve, the definition of reasonable doubt includes the words "as determined by reasonable people" which, I think, is the problem here.

Forget the night in question. Any "reasonable" person who heard the tape conversations between Mr. & Mrs. Zimmerman about moving the money around must "reason" that they are lying idiots.

That doesn't make Zimmerman a murderer but it would make a "reasonable" person question his version of the events.

So....Zimmy supporters say....Zimm is innocent until proven guilty.

Zimm decided he was judge, jury, and executioner all in a few minutes. ...Well there goes your innocent until proven guilty defense. Kills your defense of Zimmy...... all by himself.

He needs to come up with $1,000,000 in collateral to support the bail. That $100k he has at his disposal is only the non-refundable 10% he needs to put up. He isn't getting out on bail.

I think Judge Lester is a very good judge. He is known as a letter-of-the-law judge and is very well respected in the legal community. We are fortunate to have the American system of justice where a defendant is tried in a court of law with the jury system.

.
.On another matter: I think George has 3 different ways to present himself ( or behavior presentations)---------

l. The gentle CHOIRBOY LOOK (like the boy who tries to look innocent after he has pulled the pigtails of the girl sitting in front of him in the classroom)

.

2. The Strong self assured looking police cadet type (like what is seen in his re-enactment video at the scene the next day with the investigators. There, standing tall, he relates what happened the night of the shooting .)

.

3. The quick tempered reactionary (like when he threw a woman when he had been hired once to be a security bouncer at a drinking party---when he confronted and pushed a police officer at a bar----when he argued and pushed his ex-financee who took out a restraining order against him. These illustrate how quickly Zimmerman's temper can flare up.)

.

Of these 3 different ways------

I think GZ will use #1 (the CHOIR BOY look) at the trial.

your right no need see evidense lets just give him the chair now, hope you never face a jury like the one you want him to face. lets wait for the facts ok

lilmschargerfan, if this involved some lefty on trial you would be screaming innocent until proven guilty. You are what is wrong with America.