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California Conservation Corps
Veterans train with the California Conservation Corps in May 2012. Branden Gray, left, was recently hired by the U.S. Forest Service on the Laguna Hot Shots crew in Descanso, Calif.
As a staff sergeant in the Marines, Branden Gray received two Purple Hearts for wounds suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan. In Baghdad, a 7-year-old boy he thought wanted a Snickers candy bar stabbed him in the back. During a raid in Afghanistan, a piece of shrapnel from an improvised bomb severed an artery in his right leg.
"I was in a medically induced coma for a while,” Gray said. “I woke up one day thinking I was in still in Afghanistan, but I heard German voices. I was in a hospital in Germany.” He later was moved stateside to a hospital in Dallas.
After recuperating and fulfilling his four-year contract, Gray, 25, worked on earning his bachelor’s degree in psychology from Columbia College. But he yearned for a job with the pace he was accustomed to in the special forces of the Marine Corps.
So he joined an elite U.S. Forest Service firefighting crew called the Laguna Hot Shots based in Descanso, Calif., near San Diego. The Hot Shots are friendly rivals of the Smoke Jumpers in fighting wildfires — “the best of the best,” said Gray.
He is one of a many young veterans who instead of holding a weapon this summer, is wielding a chainsaw or firefighting hoe to battle blazes in forests around the country.
“The work is hard,” Gray told msnbc.com in phone call between assignments. “But the people are second to none.”
California Conservation Corps
Veterans train with the California Conservation Corps earlier this year.
Related: Thousands of veterans failing in latest battlefield: college
The discipline and command structure of firefighting crews are similar to the military, firefighters say, and the skills they gained in military service — like working as a team for a common mission — are fully transferable.
“Like the Marines, you can’t be distracted by petty things, you just have to figure out a way to see your objective and stay locked on,” Gray said.
Gray hooked on with the Hot Shots after completing a 10-month training program through the California Conservation Corps (CCC). The California program is one branch of a nationwide effort to move veterans into the work force that includes federal AmeriCorps, the nonprofit Veterans Green Jobs initiative and conservation corps in several states.
“Veterans have just been through more already by the time the come into the CCC,” said David Muraki, CCC's director. “We are interested in accelerating their transition into the domestic work force.”
Like the military, the work is demanding and the jobs require a high level of physical fitness.
“Our motto is ‘hard work, low pay, miserable conditions,’” said Muraki.
Craig Newmark, the founder of the popular trading site Craigslist, donates money to a veterans center in need of a tech makeover. KNTV's Scott Budman reports.
Since the program began in 2011, more than 130 young veterans have been trained to fight fires through the California Conservation Corps alone, Susanne Levitsky, CCC spokeswoman, told msnbc.com. Two CCC crews of veterans are helping fight wildfires in Utah and Nevada now, she said.
Related: Jobless vets need to think outside military box
Many veterans, like Gray, go on to a future seasonal or full-time jobs with the U.S. Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management. Gray is a month into his job with the Hot Shots as a seasonal worker and is thinking about a future full-time job.
“Bringing some of that military leadership certainly helped,” Gray said. “And many of the others firefighters here have that experience and put it to good use.”
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Leave a Comment:
Well now we have work for all the retiring vets in the summer from here on out. Now what can we find for them to do in the winter?
Ski patrols?
Good for them!!!
You will probably attract quite a few recently "separated" veterans, but you not likely going to get many of us old "retired" farts.
If there was genuine motivation, I'm sure many options could be offered to veterans that would have social benefits as well. Ski patrol really isn't a bad idea. If the heat wasn't cooking my brain I could probably come up with a few myself.
The roadblock, as I see it, is convincing Congress to quit working for the corpocracy and start working for the people.
Doc, if indeed you are retired, you should be managing quite well on your pension and whatever else you saved for retirement. You old farts aren't needed.
Most wild land fire fighters make enough money throughout the fire season to put some away for winter. Most are also eligible for unemployment. Since the article is talking about USFS crews, most are paid on a salary type scale, which keeps them paid throughout the year. It is very hard work being on a fire crew, and it is similar to being in the military. There are many unknowns on a fire front. Embers could start spot fires across the line, wildlife is scared, and running through your work zones. I had a black bear run past me less than 20' away on a fire I was working one summer. We also had a rattle snake den that we discovered in our work zone. We had a section we were working hit some fuels that sent embers everywhere, and it breached our line. Many of these guys will feel like they're right at home.
20 years, 7 months and 13 days. You're right, we're not needed. We were only needed when we were younger and ready to take rounds for people like you. As to your comment regarding retired pay, don't know much about the military do you? You can't live on E-7 retired pay any more...not for a number of years. Consequently I still work and take up a job a younger person could have. You have a nice day.
“Our motto is ‘hard work, low pay, miserable conditions,’” said Muraki.
Oh, really? Ok, I admit fighting a forest fire qualifies as hard work and miserable conditions, but when did $12-$16 an hour and/or average yearly income of $30,000-$45,000 become "low pay"? Maybe they should try working less than 30 hours a week for less than $10 an hour -- cleaning sewers, stacking bags of oat fiber in shipping containers, as a "helper" at a dairy farm, etc.
Hard work, miserable conditions -- and REALLY low pay. Try living on less than $15,000 a year. I've been doing it for about 7 years now.
E-7 retirement pay, post tax, is approx 3800.00 per month at 65 And, if you signed up at 20, that means you retire with approx 1300 per month at 40. Thank you for your service, but there are plenty of good working years left for you.
I've been working since 13, and will probably have to work until I am 65+. Pick up a shovel and help us get this country up and running again, instead of complaining about the above median salary you earn for past services.
J-DOGGIN - So, you'll probably work until your 65; so will I (at least 65), what's your point? And As to complaining about my rate of retirement pay, that wasn't a complaint; it was a response to a previous smarta$$ comment that came out of nowhere. No friend, I'm not complaining at all. Unlike a lot of veterans I've served with, I get around on my own power.
The money spend feeding Haliburton and defense contractors could be used to employ returning soldiers working on our crumbling infrastructure.
Ol_Doc - Good for you. Unfortunately, I am privy to a 6 month base camp operative's welcome home party tomorrow. And, he is already crying poor-me about his retirement.
This, unlike the Marine who sits next to me at work who did two tours in Iraq, who only complains about his crying newborn. I support that! I am more than happy to help foot the bill so that the 25 year old Marine may go to college, get a degree, so that he return's to be a contributor of society without the complaint of a gov't pension.
The latter makes me think "God Damn I wish I would have served while I was younger and unmarried."
jkatze
jkatze, forgive me but I have to agree with Ol_Doc that you don’t know much at all about the military. To suggest any military retiree should be managing quite well on their pensions is extremely naive. Our so called ‘Military Pensions’ are anything but lavish. For that you need to be a politician. There are many retired veterans who are homeless. I fortunately have a post 20 plus years in the military job; and I am working my posterior to the bone to pay off my modest house as soon as possible so I hopefully don’t come to be a burden on society in the future.
Oh J-DOGGIN, I am sure that Marine next to you at work who complains about his crying newborn is usually smiling when he does so. After two tours in that 'S'-Hole, he knows not all of his brothers of any stripe came home.
I'm sorry, but when are we going to discuss the firefighting hoes? We can pay for the costs of all of this by making it pay-per-view!!!
Veritas: say what? Hoes? Pay per view? Do you have issues or what?
Kate, you missed the original posting. The caption for the article said they were weilding chainsaws and firefighting hoes. Not hoses, or hose. The article read Hoes.
Calm down.
@Veritas - Yes, a hoe is something you use to work the soil. In this case, a firefighting hoe is a tool use in building fire breaks to prevent the spread of wildfires. They use the hoes to break up the soil and clear shallow roots and debris on the ground that could catch fire and cause the blaze to spread. If you got your mind out of the gutter and did some reading, or even bothered to think before you posted something you might keep from looking like an immature idiot.
I think it is great that these former service members are finding employment that they enjoy and allows them to put some of the skills they learned in the military to good use. With all of the fires we have in the country right now that are still not under control, I would hope that money could be found to hire more of these guys and get them trained quickly before more homes and lives are lost.
Come on guys, lighten up. Veritas was making a joke, and a pretty good one at that! Firefighting hoes on pay-per-view would be pretty good!
It's probably what's actually called a pulaski, but I can guess where that might lead to.
Actually, it's called a spade. The pulaski is the pick-axe type tool.
Just another "reality'" show. Might as well watch paint dry.
It went right over her air filled head.
Great to put these guys where their talents can be used.
finally some good news, a light at the end of the tunnel - How about border patrols? How about TSA? Considering some of the recent news about TSA agents sleeping on the job, stealing money, valuables, swapping out the civilians for the vets sounds like a good idea to me.
Border Patrol is good. You'll have to convince TSA to hire "full-time" positions though. It's not so much a matter of their talents being only useful for firefighting, law enforcement, emergency medicine; it's more a matter of these jobs present some of the same challenges they're use to. No one size fits all but glad to see the US Forest Service opening up more to vets.
Too bad as seasonal workers they don't get benefits even though they work more hours in a "season" than most desk jockeys work in a year.
That's exactly what we don't want. Police forces are militarized enough as it is since it seems mostly veterans fill their ranks. Law Enforcement and the military should not coincide.
That's exactly what we don't want. Police forces are militarized enough as it is since it seems mostly veterans fill their ranks. Law Enforcement and the military should not coincide.
You know Timmy, it's estimated that there are 24,000,000 living veterans in the Country. If there are approximately 300,000,000 total population that means (unless my math is really bad) approximately 8.3% of the population are veterans. Considering the vast number of veterans do not go into law enforcement, I really don't see what you are worried about. In fact, it might be good to hire someone who recognizes when deadly force is necessary. The vast majority of police officers are not veterans. Sorry man, just don't see your point.
No surprise here. Young vets are recently conditioned to the military environment and structure. Something that suits thios type of forest fire fighters well. Most civilians are not mentally pre-conditioned in the same way and overall don't show as well. More surprisingly it's known that Prison inmates in California that undergo rigorous training are considered better at fighting fires in the Sierra than their free counterparts.
Better than hot shots??? Are you on really bad drugs? They aren't even close to the quailty of hot shots. You have no clue. Get educated before you make such uninformed and stupid comments.
Now there is a reality show I'd watch.... let's pay these guys the same wage were paying those slugs on Jersey Shore and film it. Nice Job guys. It takes speacial people to provide these servics for those of us who REALLY appreciate all you do.
While I agree that paying those brave, fearless folk fighting the fires top dollar is a very good idea, but reality show? Puleeese. And yes all those "reality" show folk are s-l-u-g-s!
Sorry Kate, wasn't really advocating ANOTHER reality show. mearly stating that if I had to watch one it would be them in lieu of the other......No we do not need more (or any) reality shows.....
Not to be a wet blanket, but isn't the National Guard supposed to available for fighting fires in this country instead of winning the hearts and minds of the unwinnable in Afghanistan and Iraq? This way real vets, especially wounded ones, can find real jobs.
You mean like this? BTW many of those National Guard Soldiers that you do not consider to be "real vets" served at least one tour on active duty before joining the National Guard. In addition I'd love to see you tell a Guardsman that served in Iraq or Afghanistan that he or she is not a "real vet."
You are a urine soaked wet blanket Bill.
If bill was any slower, someone would have to water him twice a week.
Bill, you have no clue. As of Feb 2011, 67,888 Army National Guard soldiers have deployed to Iraq and/or Afghanistan. They are real soldiers Bill. Most have deployed multiple times. And yes, between deployments Guardsmen still fight wildfires.
National Guardsmen ARE 'real' vets! Are you? What have you done in your lifetime that's anywhere near what these guardsmen have done? Get a life and stop tearing down these 'real' vets!
Is there anything our veterans can't do?
I wonder how many of these vets are receiving a VA disability compensation yet working in a physical job such as being a firefighter? Is this allowed that way I can tell many of my ex-military buddies to apply.
i wouldn't mind working for them but i'm still eating from a tube in my belly ..... might be able to get rid of it if i get one in my throat for breathing .... that is my choice as it looks ... continue to not eat real food or take my voice box out and not talk ..... i'm leaning toward real food ... talking is so over rated ...
Jeepst -
Do you have any ex-military buddies, or did you just want to throw a cheap shot out there?
Regardless you still have to meet the physical qualifications for any job.
Disabled doesn't mean bed ridden you idiot
Actually working as a wildland firefighter for the federal government isn’t all that great of an existence. I’m a former hotshot and military veteran, so I do have some first-hand knowledge on the subject. In the old days you could make a good living during fire season and collect unemployment benefits during the off season; however, the government has all but eliminated that by making many employees permanent seasonal. In addition, the Forest Service is one of the most dysfunctional agencies that there is in the entire federal government.
Although, there is still an ample opportunity to make overtime during the season, if a veteran is looking for a career in firefighting they would be much better served by investing in their future by taking fire science, emergency medical technician, or better yet paramedic, and hazmat courses in community college, and then applying for a position with either Cal Fire or a municipal department. They can still use their veteran’s preference points, and they will end up with a worthwhile career rather than wasting their time working for the Forest Service.
it is very hard for us to quit, or give up on anything .. sometimes even the bad things ..
Way to go Vets!
We could sure use them Colorado this summer.
Yes, on a flat tax - I'm sure they're there.
This is a good story about the vets, MSNBC. How about following up about the Native American wildfire firefighters from all the Nations who train to travel the southwest and put their lives on the line to fight these hellfires?
If you don't want to do the research, just cut and paste from Kavika's home page.
Seems like an excellent fit and you can bet with the climate issues we face, this is bound to be a almost full time job for years to come. Great way to transition back into the "real" world as well.
Hooray!! Low paying dangerous jobs for our vets.
Are they really better than any other hard working, motivated american? Just because they're vets doesn't mean anything but that they took a temp job to fight for oil.
Now if they were to storm mexico and put an end to illegal immigration then I'd say they were protecting our soil.
Otherwise, good for them that as average americans they have a job.
Think of them as doing the job illegal aliens won't do.
"Are they really better than any other hard working, motivated american?" ...............Uhh from what I have seen......for the most part yeah! They wouldnt be fighting overseas if You the American people did not send them.
Oh, I don't know.... how many are lining up to face those killer fires?
What, are veterans from outer space or something? Why wouldn't they be just as good as anyone else of similar age and abilities. Why is this news? Are we going to start hearing about the first veteran this and that now as we do for women and minorities? Pray tell why the amazement at any activities. I am a Viet Nam veteran. Guess what, I am not a drug crazed killer as we all were portrayed as being by the media at one time. Why is it news that a veteran can be a good fire fighter? Get a job and a life jerk. Your literary abilities leave much to be desired.
At least our Vets are finding jobs where they can be useful in. The only thing you take from the military are leadership skills. Everything else is useless in the everyday world unless we are invaded. For everything, or most everything, else that requires skilled workers, some where they would probably like to be instead of flipping burgers, requires some kind of degree.
Geowil - you should be hauled behind a humvee and dragged for several miles through a road filled with IED's. If you survive, you might start to appreciate that there are real heroes and then there are people like you who are real zeroes.
Actually Geowil brings up a topic that should be discussed. One of the greatest difficulties veterans have in entering the civilian workforce is the ability to translate their military experience to a civilian career. Here are a couple of little things veterans bring to an employer:
- Accelerated Learning Curve
- Leadership
- Teamwork
- Diversity and Inclusion in Action
- Efficient performance under pressure
- Respect for procedures
- Technology and globalization
- Integrity
- Conscious of health and safety standards
- Triumph over adversity
By the way, don't confuse leadership with management. It's a little like comparing the Pacific Ocean to Lake Tahoe. They both contain water but slightly different scope.
If you are a new veteran, go see an employment department veterans' representative (LVER or DVOP) or a Veteran Service Officer (VSO) for assistance translating your skills.
In this country today, there are "doers" and then there are the rest, "watchers" - sitting in front of their tvs, watching "America's Got Talent" - stuffing their faces while simultaneously texting useless personal information to their facebook pages.
Hats off to this generation of "doers" who without question, right or wrong, bravely and honorably stand a post to defend their country, whether it's combat overseas, or here in America, defending people's homes.
You may not be the richest, you may not have an ivy-league diploma (courtesy of your parents)
but you are the best we have to offer. I am proud that you are Americans from my country, and I and I am sure millions like me, thank you for your service.
whatever!
I think this is great - give our veteran's first crack at these jobs and pay them above and beyond any other salary/retirement they may have. We have ungrateful government employees who complain they aren't paid enough to fight fires and should get special treatment because fires only happen during certain months. I say pay our veterans to do this job - even active duty - let them be able to collect fire pay and their military pay and treat them with the respect they deserve. You'll know our fighting men are disciplined and will do the job. It isn't easy, but we don't need whiners on the lines - we need real men and fighters.
Thank you to all our fighting men for your service.
Is there any information regarding how many positions are available as a firefighter and how many vets are on "active duty" with the US forest service in this role or is this a state specific job (this article only mentions CA.)?
I agree with some of the other posts that a recently discharged vet could be ideal given the number of large fires in the west. These men and women are also likely among the best to handle this type of dangerous work provided they get some training. It sounds like this could be a win win when they cant find work after discharge. Their unemployment rate is twice that of the national average if I recall correctly.
I'd like to thank every person returning from duty, and going back on duty to fight these wildfires. The conditions you're working in are incomprehensible to the non-coms. Keep up the good work. We need more people like you.
Dear Friends:
Thank You to All Those That Have Served!
An infinitely more important and valuable use of their time than virtually anything their superiors ordered them to do in Iraq or Afghanistan. They should be handsomely rewarded for their firefighting work.