Gordy, I'd wholeheartedly agree in the event that the cause of death could be definitively attributed to drowning or electrical shock. The problem is that you can't, hence there's no accountability for those who choose to allow unsafe conditions to exist in their business, which in this situation has a shared impact that extends beyond the business.

Thanks for that propaganda pep talk Gator!

So apparently you think it's ok that we pay the higher price for our healthcare so that the rest of the industrialized world can use that technology we create here, and provide to their people at a tenth of our cost. Sounds reasonable.

Instead of focusing on our ability to feed the world, why don't we focus on those that are going hungry right here in our own back yards. They do exist in the grand ol' USofA.

Have you read lately that many of those innovators here in the US aren't really of US origin? So while we might be 'innovating' here in the, it isn't because of US citizens' brain power. Oh, and for the first time in decades, we are actually suffering from a brain drain. Look into it. All those minds we educate here, aren't staying here. They're going back home and innovating there instead.

We aren't the be all and end all in the US. I can't believe there are people in this country that think this way. This country is far from perfect, and we can stand to take a page from other country's books. There's nothing wrong with learning how other places do things, and implementing the best strategies here. No one deserves to die because of a lack of a safety protocol. Its really sad when it comes down to money or someone's life, because selfish people always let money win..and there are lots of selfish people out there running companies.

As far as you go, Gordy. Let's see how free market you like when one of your loved ones die from subpar electrical outlets when they're out swimming where it should be safe.

UMGator - Yes, you are right, we were the leader in manned space flight....however we have no abandoned our manned space flight and now in fact do rely on China, Russia and Europe to get our men and supplies into space.

As for medicine. We also used to be the leader there as well. But of recent many procedures, technologies and medicines are being done in other countries.

The US Government no longer believes in funding good R&D while other governments have heavily funded R&D.

Gordy - I hope you are being ironic because WE wouldn't have any freedom if we let corporations decide....the corporations would have freedom while our happiness and freedom would be decided by shareholders.

Gordy

You're joking. Right? Free market doesn't mean there should be no responsibility for putting innocent people at risk of dying. Keeping the public safe from harm is everybody's responsibility. Unfortunately, in the absence of regulation and penalties some people will ignore basic decency and commonsense in order to make money. That's why we need regulation, to keep greed and stupidity from endangering our lives.

The marinas are probably working under such a slim margin in Obama's tax...

Fed Up - do you and others like you, who insist on making everything political, really have nothing better to do with your time than to sit around all day long worrying about one political party or another. Man, you must have BORING lives!!! Try finding a hobby, or at least get off your fat butt and go for a walk.

This country is far from perfect...

KyEngineer - this country might not be perfect, but if you can't be thankful for what we have, then perhaps you should move to whichever country you think is better. Want to go to China? Fine, but if you think our health care system is bad, think again. A visiting professor from China with whom I am friends says that you can't even get into a hospital unless you know someone. Want to go to one of the European countries to live? Fine. Go. See how much you have to pay in taxes for all those wonderful services that you think are free. How about India or one of the African nations, where people are starving, or the Middle East, where you might just die from a suicide bomber?

But of recent many procedures, technologies and medicines are being done in other countries.

IvanMiami - perhaps you should do a search and site references for which countries are doing these things that were not first developed in the USA. Name one new medical technology that is medically sound (not quack medicine) and is being done elsewhere that was not invented here.

I'm not joking about the terrible tragedy, but my comment was not to be taken seriously.

The marinas are probably working under such a slim margin in Obama's tax, regulate, and squander economy that they can't afford to upgrade... now, of course, the EPA and OSHA will use scanty anecdotal evidence to justify putting half of all marinas out of business (of course, Liberal marina owners will get waivers)

Truly...you are the village idiot. This has been happening a lot longer than Obama has been in office. I've seen some really idiotic posts here but you give idiotic a whole new meaning.

Obviously it's because industries can self-regulate. Let the market decide. People won't moor their boats at marinas that aren't up to code.

UM Gator.

Name one new medical technology that is medically sound (not quack medicine) and is being done elsewhere that was not invented here.

Just one:

"Christopher Lyles, 30, of Abingdon, Md, exhausted the limited treatment options available in the U.S. for his tracheal cancer. But Lyles read about an experimental tracheal transplant procedure surgeons performed in Europe using adult stem cells. . . .
"After a 12 hour procedure in Sweden, Lyles was breathing through a lab grown windpipe that doctors fashioned from his own stem cells."

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/us-patient-artifical-trachea-transplant/story?id=15354809

There are more - many, many more - examples, but if you are really interested you can investigate for yourself. If you wanted to find out what a woeful misconception you have, you could research it.

But I'm sure you have more interest in promoting gingoistic rants than is actually determining where the truth lies.

Ignorance is truly bliss. Do not bother me with facts.

UMGator:

Itracor - eye surgery being done overseas with excellent results in correcting near sided vision but is only now being looked at by the FDA.

Experts all agree that a majority of cures for diseases will come from stem cell research. The top research locations for this are all outside the United States because we make US research labs use essentially re-processed cells.

Most of our current reconstructive plastic surgery techniques not only come from Brazil but are named after Brazilian doctors.

I am sure that if I had nothing better to do but research this I could identify dozens of leading advances in technology and procedures coming from overseas. But I actually have better things to do with my time. But feel free to do some research and reading of your own.

"Unfortunately, it is because we have not been 1st or even in the top 10 in MOST areas for several decades, it is only recently that we are beginning to realize how far we lag behind the rest of the world in almost every area."

Kelly, if this is true - than it's MOSTLY true because of the fact that over-regulation STRANGLES advancement, growth and the application of safety measures, etc.

The following excerpt from the article makes that quite clear:

"The obstacles are many, however. Ritz said that a marina manager near where he lives wanted to upgrade some of the marina’s electrical system but learned that, by law, he would also have to upgrade the whole system – a pricey proposition."

Endless regulations and bureaucratic BS means that even people want to do the right thing are often unable to because of overboard asinine rules that have no common sense and no conception or care for people's financial limitations. It's an out of control government that is strangling us. We need SMALLER government, NOT BIGGER. There is very little that the government messes with that doesn't turn into a gigantic cluster-f*ck.

I'm in NC. The problem here is that most of the lakes/reservoirs only have ONE marina. If they won't police their own standards, there is no free market way to force them, only with a law & fine.

impatient - we need regulations. The problem is that the government, at ALL levels, never stops adding NEW ones, ever more EXPENSIVE ones, regulations that become impossible to comply with due to completely outlandish cost requirements or just plain ridiculous conditions to comply with. THAT's the problem.

Kind of like the EPA requiring coal burning facilities to use technology that doesn't even exist yet.

UMGator - yes we were leaders, a long time ago. Stop living in the past and start realizing that this country is going stale and that's we we NO LONGER have a space shuttle, or a viable space program for that matter.

No, it's not because we aren't the first or best at something--that has nothing to do with it. It's because we have ridiculous laws and regulations. If you read the article you would note that Marina owners cannot just upgrade the electrical in the water, they have to upgrade their entire electrical at the same time. Why can't we get rid of a law that forces people to choose not to upgrade?

The police covered up for the marina and the other guilty parties, lying to the father telling them his son had drowned. Boaters and jet skiers are dangerous for swimmers and many others because their gasoline toys are polluting, loud, rude, stupid machines operated by people who are often drunk or stoned. The marina owner and anyone else responsible for the electrocutions should be criminally prosecuted and sued. Boaters and jet skiers- lay off your gas toys and try not to be girly men. Learn to swim, kayak, canoe and fish without your machines. It will make a man out of you gasoline-addicted sissies!!

@grilledcheesesandwich

The problem is that the government, at ALL levels, never stops adding NEW ones, ever more EXPENSIVE ones, regulations that become impossible to comply with due to completely outlandish cost requirements or just plain ridiculous conditions to comply with. THAT's the problem.

I would tend to believe that keeping your electrical wiring in good repair so that it doesn't KILL anyone would be a reasonable regulation. Often times in these cases, the law is not difficult or costly to comply with. It is simply that those in charge of implementing it are too lazy or incompetent to do so. I bet you the guy running this marina was some pot belly beer swigging skin-tight t-shirt wearing chain smoking redneck that was too sorry to get out of his chair and check the wiring on his dock. And instead of paying a real electrician $500 a year to come out and inspect his wiring, he spent the money on booze, smokes, and McDonalds.

A lot of government regulations related to safety are simple common sense items that should be followed if you value human life and are not a complete idiot. For example, federal regulations require the coal mines to provide emergency respirators to their workers that ACTUALLY WORK when used. The mines had the gaul to COMPLAIN about how restrictive this regulation was. Another example - drievrs in Pennsylvania (plus many other states) must get their vehicle inspected for safety issues once a year. Is this unreasonable? Well, common sense would dictate that you want your vehicle to be safe to drive, but people complain about this too. "It's too expensive!" they say. Well, if you can't afford to keep your car safe to drive, then maybe you shouldn't have a car. This is about PEOPLE'S LIVES - you can't be free if you're dead!

While thankful for what we have achieved in the past, UMGator, we have become a lazy nation. Our education system (the base of innovation) should be our most valuable asset, not getting a bigger and bigger gun. Our military spends so much money (granted, in protecting us..whether or not that's needed is another debate) on R&D. We are spending our innovation in ways to kill. We are number 1...for Military assets, and that’s at the expense of all other things. So you are right in a way, we have a single #1 spot. What we need is to re-allocate funds, teachers should earn more respect and get more pay (right now Public school is nothing more then a glorified day care system..not the fault of the folks who work there, but because we don't value education in this country anymore). People come to learn at our colleges, and leave, while our own people can't afford to go.

O, and another example of other countries ahead of ours. Look up the LHC, you might have heard of the recent "God Partical"..it seems advanced physics has moved out of the US almost completely (Yes, we used to be number one, and we would have the toy's to keep us there, but guess what, no money to build it, it went to the military again).

I have to add that, regulations, can go both ways. So can free market. Regulations were needed because free market wasn't working on its own. You've got class warfare to worry about after a little while. Regulations were meant to protect, but, in this sue happy country, you have to cover all possible outcomes (which leads to stupid regulations that just get in the way, and cost more $) Higher cost=Higher Tax.

I would tend to believe that keeping your electrical wiring in good repair so that it doesn't KILL anyone would be a reasonable regulation

The problem, as stated in the beginning of this article, was not that electrical issues weren't noticed, it was that the REGULATION stated that if the were going to fix one problem, they would have to update the entire system. It's countless situations like this that make regulations nonsensical and burdensome, and effectively create the situation they were meant to eliminate.

Good grief Gator. Your ignorance is barely worth a response, but yet I will.

Keep thinking that the US is the leader in everything and continue your happy dream life while the rest of the country works to fix what actually is wrong. The US is the leader in everything but you owe China over a TRILLION dollars. The US is the leader in everything but they moved all production to China so now you have even less money to pay back the TRILLION dollars (approximately $14,371/ person living in the US)because companies are paying China to make things that 15 years ago we made (and that will break in a week so you'll have to buy it again and again). The US is the leader in everything but Americans routinely choose to go overseas to seek medical help because they dont have the same proven treatments at home.The US is the leader in everything but the Government would rather let companies dictate whether raping our land while drilling for oil and "Natural Gas" (the gas maybe natural but there is nothing natural about how they get it) is a good idea and not the millions of people who are getting sick and dying....The US is the leader in everything but multiple children have been electrocuted while swimming because forcing ppl to use common sense (ie updating the electrical systems in a marina is a necessary thing. Water + Electricity x ppl swimming dying =Bad) is some how akin to an over involved government...

The US is great, but not the best. Educate yourself and think before speaking. If everyone did that more often then the US would move up a little on the 'Leader' board.

Saying that you were told that your whole sysem would have to be upgraded does not make it so! Sounds like they're blaming the system for not wanting to spend any money at all. As a licensed architect I have worked with codes officials on minor renovations and stated I have x amount of money to work with. What does the code official recommend I address in a prioritzed list. In almost all cases they're happy to see any improvement in safety!

Gator, I have lived overseas. The UK to be exact. My husband is from Scotland. There are plenty of lies going around in this country regarding just how much people in these countries pay in income taxes. When we lived in Scotland, our effective tax rate was less than what it is here. For around a $50k salary, we had a tax rate of around 13%.

However, lets say we did pay a higher tax rate in the UK than we would have in the US. Let's say we made the equivalent of $60k there and the take home would only be around $40k (a 33% tax rate). That $20k in 'taxes' covers all our income taxes and ALL of our healthcare. There's no co-pays, no deductible, no max out-of-pocket expenses that you have to budget for there. So, if you're having a bad year health-wise, I guarantee you that your combined federal/state taxes PLUS your co-pays, deductible and max out-of-pocket expenses will be more than $20k. I don't know about your insurance, but I have around a $4k deductible and up to $8k max out-of-pocket.

To add to that, my husband makes around the $60k mark here in the US. He's paid every other week, so that comes out to (very roughly) $5k/month. After taxes, health insurance premium, and a couple of other smaller bennies (i.e. life insurance), he only brings home around $3400/month. That is basically a 32% tax rate already. We don't own a home, and have no kids, so we don't have any further write offs. So if we get sick, which I will because I have a pre-exisiting condition, we can count on having to fork out enough to meet my deductible this year - assuming we have to money to pay it. If you want to compare apples to apples, you have to include the deductibles/copays and out-of-pocket into our already 32% tax rate, driving it up even further.

The other benefit in the UK, is that you know, based upon your salary, just how much you are going to pay in taxes. There is no way to reduce your taxes in the UK if you have a home or 10 kids. Everyone in the same tax bracket pays the same percent of income tax as everyone else. That seems mighty fair to me, considering how many people in this country complain that people have more kids to reduce their tax burden and wind up with a hefty refund and not paying any taxes at all.

So I definitely know where we're getting the better bang for our taxes. And a person doesn't have to worry about losing a home in the UK, or going bankrupt, over medical bills. Nor do you have to worry about going into debt to pay medical bills in the UK.

Really starts to make one wonder which country has some advantages..at least it should make one wonder.

Sorry I took this thread off topic. I couldn't help but respond.

Fed Up-2683606

Your so out to lunch I cannot even think of a comment except I have ignored you for life so I do not have to read your inbred drivel.

KyEngineer,

Please do not bother rocky-road with the facts. He is not capable of digesting them. Somebody is inbred alright, but I think Mr. Road needs to look in the mirror. I lived in a country with much the same system as you lived under and it was great. One of my theories is that people dislike taxes so much in this country because they do not get much for their money. I did not hear people complaining about taxes like they do here because they felt pretty lucky.

I realize this is a very serious topic, and I would never, in any way, discount that. I firmly believe this situation has to be resolved. NO ONE should be allowed to swim where it might not be safe--in any way.

At the same time, I read one of the funniest statements I've seen in a long time written by Will 1091847 in his post 1.21. I can safely jest about "rednecks" because I have lived in both Arkansas and Texas, each for over ten years--and I mean no disrespect whatsoever, because I have many people as friends that others would refer rudely to as "rednecks". When I saw this comment, I really was giggling!

I bet you the guy running this marina was some pot belly beer swigging skin-tight t-shirt wearing chain smoking redneck that was too sorry to get out of his chair and check the wiring on his dock.

The European market has had ground fault protection in their marinas – the power coming into the marina at the docks – for over 25 years,” Ritz told msnbc.com. “How come we can’t have that?”

Unfortunately, it is because we have not been 1st or even in the top 10 in MOST areas for several decades, it is only recently that we are begining to realize how far we lag behind the rest of the world in almost every area.

It's not the only area for sure. We have had a higher teen pregnancy rate than China and Iceland for years and years, and both countries do not allow pornography production or the distribution of it to pollute young impressionable minds and ruin their chance at being sexually responsible and having a productive life.

Americans tend to view their own nation as being above other countries in so many areas, and yet it arrogance that does not reflect reality.

I know this might sound like I am off base here but I have been sitting here wondering and reading if what happen to those Children was that someone from South America possibly put an "Electric Ell" into those waters in Tennessee and Missouri causing those electrical currents in those waters which can cause death in humans? See to read about them!

Getting your marinas ground fault systems are cheaper than bad press and long, costly lawsuits.

Swimming in marinas in the first place I would consider a poor health option. This is because of the human tendency to throw waste materials over the side of the boat instead of disposing of it properly. Water currents vary with underwater topography, and therefore there are areas within the marina which accumulate these waste products and others which don't, so therefore it's like letting kids swim in the toilet.

Industrial waste products are also a concern in marinas. There are some fairly toxic bottom coatings for boats to inhibit marine life growth, old fish hooks, broken glass, mooring cables, etc. After major storms, floats may be damaged below the water surface to the level that lots of loose stuff is around to be entangled in. The intoxication of boaters is also high during holiday times, so their awareness of dangers, either avoiding them, or causing them, should be considered as well.

I'm an ex Coast Guard vet. The CG will, as well as other rescuers, go out and attempt to make a successful rescue, but let me give you a clue, they aren't all successful. Being just a little too late to the scene results in tragedy... and some can be quite sickening especially when children are involved. Water can be extremely dangerous and look so nice on the surface. There are safer places to be an idiot around than water, as it is totally unforgiving.

@Gordy,

Really? Just don't even bother to have regulations even when lives are at stake? I think it's high time that you and other republicans learned the meaning of "personal responsibility". If businesses are not going to behave in ethical ways and take responsibility for their actions then we need laws to compel them to. Why is there no outrage when businesses fail to take responsibility for their actions? I thought corporations were people and the republican party was all about making people take responsibility????

With freedom comes responsibility. You do NOT have the right to do something that takes away someone's else's rights. You republicans are always harping on the silly notion that a ball of 16 cells is a person with a right to life. Apparently you don't think an actual 8 year old child has a right to life. Or is it just that a business' rights ALWAYS trump the rights of an individual in the republican mind?

Fed Up-2683606 - perhaps you need a brush up on the OSHA regulations. When GWB was President in 2007 he lessened the regulations on OSHA. Here is the article to read for yourself, OSHA Leaves Worker Safety in Hands of Industry, Labaton, S., April 25, 2007, NY TIMES. This caused a great concern for many people who work in industries where safety is unfounded in many other countries. History has proven that when Corporations are left to make their own decisions they do it at the expense of their employees' well-being. Otherwise they would not be paying lobbyiest to get Congress & the Senate to do things their way. It is an unfair advantage because most industry workers cannot afford to pay a lobbyist to speak up for them. There are fewer Union workers today than there were 100 years ago. Do we need Unions? No, but when it comes to the people needing someone to speak for them against Corporations and Industry leaders, this is a good reason for needing a Union.

Then you can read this next article, On Its Own, Obama's OSHA Falling Short, Brown, J., March 28, 2011, LaborNotes, where Obama's administration has been trying to step up OSHA regulations but with struggles due to budget constraints, again, thanks to the GWB administration.

So, if you are going to blame someone make sure you have your facts and references to support your claim. As a trained paralegal, that is what I do however now I work in the financial field in many different industries where OSHA has a huge presence...metal recycling and waste management.

I'm not quite sure of the status now, situations may have changed, but in the years I was involved OSHA did not regulate commercial fishing. Thus harbors and marinas in which commercial fishing industry transpired had regulatory requirements independent of Federal Safety Requirements as outlined by OSHA. Certainly there were safety requirements, I'm not implying there weren't, such as life vests, fire extinguishers, etc. But marine safety obligations were distinct from land safety obligations, just as admiralty law has distinctions from other legal procedures.

Your ignorance is depressing. We do have the most advanced space agency in the world. It's temporarily reorganizing while it abandons old tech for newer smarter tech. We are using Russia only temporarily until we have a better system for getting into space. We are not using Russia because they have better tech, but because it's cheaper to hitch a ride with them while we work on the new tech, than to work on the new tech AND fully fund missions in the interim. Furthermore, we are probably the only nation whose use of capitalism has created Privatized Space agencies. To say otherwise is idiotic, or plain lies.

Furthermore, don't compare a large country with a small country, it's a totally different dynamic. I'm sure England can roll out a new type of DSL in no time at all, but try doing that in China or Russia where the shear size creates an entirely different set of problems that required a completely new set of solutions.

Regardless of inventor origin, it's quite clear that the dynamic of the US, it's use of capitalism and social freedoms are what foster the most advanced tech in ANY industry. Just look at Nobel prize's by country.

Brain drain? Doesn't matter. China is a-okay with stealing everything anyways, brain drain not required.

AFAIK there is laws regarding electricity around any wet areas that don't specifically pertain to residential construction. There may not be entirely across the US, as it's it is probably up to the State and then the County.

Wow, Fed Up thinks the marina that was negligent and killed this man's son back in 1999 was too poor to pay for a safe electrical system because of OBAMA. Yes, that's right, this President is soooooo powerful that he can step back in time to 10 years before he took office, and tax and regulate businesses back then! Wow.

Setting the argument about whether this is Obama's fault or not, I was not aware that a hot wire in fresh water creates a dangerous situation some distance from the cause. I've worked around electrical equipment all my life and would always make sure I didn't make myself part of a circuit. What this accident implies is that a region of fresh water can be charged and you can complete the circuit by walking into it. I don't see how that could happen if you are swimming and part of you is ungrounded. If I'm wrong could somebody enlighten me.

Why would anyone swim at a marina in the first place? It's dangerous with boats coming and going. The water is filthy from oil and other pollutants. It's just nasty. Why would anyone want to be in the water anywhere near a marina?

Oh boy, National Code??? Another place where the Feds don't belong...

Why would anyone swim at a marina in the first place? It's dangerous with boats coming and going. The water is filthy from oil and other pollutants. It's just nasty. Why would anyone want to be in the water anywhere near a marina?

I would want to swim if I accidentally fell in.

I would think that "national" code is exactly where Federal Regulation should be. hello. . . national

Kinda like saying ice should be in the freezer. Just makes sense.

Fed-up,

The next time your idiot neighbor's house does not burn to the ground because he plugged a hair dryer into the same circuit as his AC, thereby NOT knocking about 50-100 grand off the value of your house sitting next to the charred remnant of his house, thank the electrical code for saving your property value from your neighbor's stupidity.

The obstacles are many, however. Ritz said that a marina manager near where he lives wanted to upgrade some of the marina's electrical system but learned that, by law, he would also have to upgrade the whole system – a pricey proposition.

Here's another solution that at least would help,
These owners of Marina's should just go out and buy the necessary GFCI and just install them themselves. At least this way the docks would be protected and that to me is more important than some law that says you have to redo the whole system or nothing, sort of like the old systems are grandfathered in so to speak which is stupid in this case as it could and does claim lives.

Installing a GFCI outlet or even a GFCI circuit breaker is not hard to accomplish. The owner of the property I believe can do the repairs legally himself but other than him a qualified electrician must do them I think.

I have run across many business and even homes that have unsafe outlets (No GFCI) and you'd be surprised to see how many people get shocked when buying a soda pop from a vending machine all because the property didn't have the proper outlets for the machines or there was reversed polarity on the outlets. I did fix those situations where I could but it wasn't legal but at least the outlet I dealt with is now safe and that's what matters in the long run, at least to me it is.

My condolences to family's affected by this tragedy.

The National Electrical Code is updated every 3 years, but does not require upgrading on older construction. Also there is no way the NEC will permit plugging a 120 volt hair dryer into a 220 volt AC circuit. The NEC is not written by the Federal Government. Copyright © 2010
National Fire Protection Association®
One Batterymarch Park
Quincy, Massachusetts 02169-7471 this is who published my 2011 NEC.

Richard,

thank you for explaining how the code keeps idiots from burning down their own houses, which, in turn, eliminates one more cause of reduced property values in their neighborhood.

The problem isn't National codes, the problem is local munincipalities require the entire marina be brought to standard, It's really ironic in trying to fix a problem the locals cause the problem. For example a few months ago I wanted to repair a small section of fence, the city wanted me to replace the entire fence. Same thing applies to electrical code, you just can't legally fix things peace meal.

Luis M: How could you justify not bringing the entire marina up to standard? Would you charge lower fees for the unsafe dock and let the customer decide how much his family's safety is worth? If you can't afford to operate a business without endangering your customers lives, you shouldn't be in business.

Robert... Depending upon the body of water the marina is in, but most likely it's a federal waterway, The US Army Corps of Engineers has the authority to lease the marina property to the entity which operates the marina, and the Corps is responsible for dredging and etc. The Corps of Engineers gets their funding from Congress. The states, or municipalities might regulate the parking areas, or staging areas outside of the water boundaries of the marina, but the funding for the marina's upgrade is US taxpayer money, not a local sales tax option.

Have you seen how much it costs to buy a boat and then maintain it? "Too expensive" is a pathetic and obviously untruthful excuse. They obviously have the money but are too cheap to spend it.

Gee, Derek, don't you believe that everybody should carry a water proof electrical meter with them before dangling their feet off the dock in the water?

Don't you think everybody should have the personal responsibility to expect to get electrocuted when they step into the water?

It is just so upsetting that many swimming beaches have life guards whose sole function is to protect the swimming public. Just rampant socicalism.

Exactly - if the marina is not able to cover the costs of doing business, and boat owners are not willing to pay enough to use a safe facility, then they don't need to do so. It is not OK for them to save costs for themselves, while in turn making some children pay with their lives for the owner's sloppy business practices.

The GOP solution is let the free market handle all such matters. If you lose a family member to faulty wiring, you will not go to that hotel or marina in the future, and will advise friends not to do so either. If enough people suffer such tragic losses, the offending business will fail. Likewise for medicines, airplanes, food, automobiles, etc. High body counts are bad for the reputation of a business and may eventually lead to a loss of profitability.

The GOP should have all their children endangered in the water. We'd see how fast they'd get on board with the idea of updating regulation requirements to include GFIs at all marinas. Would anyone care to wager they might agree it would be a good idea?

The GOP always think it's up to the free market until their own are threatened, then it's a different story. One thinks they should have their own health benefits stripped from them until every American has coverage. That would change their tune.

That's the problem with letting the 'free market' keep people safe - it is guaranteed that a number of people have to suffer and/or die in order to discover what businesses are doing things the wrong way, when a common-sense, proactive approach could save lives. I mean, wait 30 years until a bunch of your co-workers get cancer from working with a bad chemical, OR... regulate the use of known cancer-causing chemicals in the workplace. Seems pretty straight-forward which I woud prefer.

Antone, it's not about businesses "having more rights". It's about governmental agencies that never know when to stop. We have career politicians at all level of government that can't stop writing new laws, more regulations and more rules so that they have something to point to as evidence of why we all need them so bad.

The following excerpt from the article makes that quite clear:

"The obstacles are many, however. Ritz said that a marina manager near where he lives wanted to upgrade some of the marina’s electrical system but learned that, by law, he would also have to upgrade the whole system – a pricey proposition."

Some regulation is necessary. TOO MUCH regulation strangles businesses, stifles economic growth, and yes, can even result in unsafe conditions if the government makes the cost of complying with the law prohibitive to a business's survival. And I have news for you, Antone. People like you are destroying this country with your endless war on businesses. No businesses, no jobs, no jobs, no money, no money, no roof over your head, no food on your table and no gas in your car.

Grilledcheese

I would add that without the customer to buy the service there would be no business. A business has a responsibility to maintain their site in a safe condition. In most jurisdictions unless a business wants to make major changes, a repair to existing problems may not require updating the whole system. At the least the marina owner should have repaired or cut the power to the faulty circuit. Unfortunately, some regulations are passed to protect us from ourselves through our own stupidity and/or greed.

Grilledcheese that is ridiculous when a human life is worth less than a simple regulation which is COMMON SENSE as a business owner (which I am) I would have the common sense to gfi it all and look after my stuff, you need regulations for the f**king idiots like these marina owners that regard the allmighty dollar more than your kids life. Common sense should prevail always!!! If you are that stupid you should never even own a business in the first place.

And judging by your comment I would advise you never to own a business it will fail just as much as your comment does with anyone with a brain.

Hope they have lots of insurance, then. They're going to get sued and lose everything down to the fillings in their teeth. That's gross negligence and failure to use due care.

So, if it's a 'pricey proposition' to run your business the RIGHT way, just don't??? Is that the answer? All those poor people who own boats and spend so much money on them just can't possibly fork over a little more money to have a safe marina? Give me a break!

I suppose grilled cheese head would understand if their hospital or doctor's office just couldn't pony up the cash for appropriate surgical equipment, and killed him during surgery because of it. I mean, after all, it would have been 'pricey' to have the right equipment. You understand, right?

Oh please, STFU already and go back to your Occupy protest.

Sounds like GCS is getting touchy because he can't defend his position.

Those children had a right to grow up and live on. That inalienable right supersedes the right of the business to refuse to install $40 GFI safety equipment.

GCS hasn't a leg to stand upon, Tom.

An adult's life is worth 2 million dollars (insurance value). I don't know the insurance value of a child's life, but the marina is going out of business over this for certain. The lawsuit will be enormous.

Antone, are you currently unemployed? Why so bitter about business? If not unemployed, who pays your salary?? Glad they are in business, right?

Unfortunately Mario U.L. is only a laboratory that tests items and in the past has been caught giving it's approval for lots of cash. The standard is in the electrical code of the state.

Do they have a standard for these connections?

Your accusations of fraud require some proof.

The current going through the water would only be equal to or less than the amount being used by equipment on the boat. If an air conditioner unit is running on the boat and using 10 amps, and the neutral line of the power hookup to the boat is loose, broken or otherwise faulty, some or all of that 10 amps may find a return path through the water and the neutral line of a nearby boat that has a good connection. There is no excessive current to open a circuit breaker and indicate a problem. A perfectly normal 10 amp current is about 100 times more than needed to electrocute a person, if flowing through their body.

The way to detect and prevent the problem is to install a GFCI breaker, which shuts off power to the circuit if the current in the 2 power wires is not equal at all times. If the current is not equal in the two lines, it indicates that the current has found another path, as described above.

GFCi's are more expensive than ordinary circuit breakers and should be installed by a licensed electrician to be sure it is done right, so the cost is not trivial.

Yes, exactly. Out of control bureaucracy turns what should be a simple fix into an unbelievably expensive nightmare. And yet, people still self-righteously comment here about how businesses seem to have all the rights and people have none. I honestly can't stand the stupidity.

Not being an electrician I would have to say maybe your right, but you may be wrong. I have worked enough around electricity to know that you cannot connect somethings due to voltage and/or amperage without an increased risk of fire or electrocution. Which is why regulations can be a good thing, protecting an unwary marina owner from endangering himself, his business or the public in their attempt to do something right.

Upgrading a receptacle on a marina dock won't do as it only cuts power to what's plugged into it. A GFCI breaker at the panelbox needs to be installed in order to cut power to the entire electrical circuit.

Installing a single GFCI at the main panel would cause endless trouble, as power to the entire dock would go off every time a boat with defective wiring hooked into the system. Isolating the problem to the defective boat would be a nightmare, as the GFCI might not trip immediately but only when that boat was drawing sufficient current to trigger the GFCI as more electrical devices were turned on.

Even with a GFCI on every individual boat meter box, the boats with good wiring that are receiving the leakage current from the defective boat might also have their GFCI trip due to current imbalance.

The outcome would be a lot more temporary power outages while the faulty unit is identified and disconnected, but probably worth the reduced risk.