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Subscribe to RSSInvestigators on New York's Long Island say they are look at the possibility of whether overcrowding and not enough life vests played a role in the drowning deaths of three children after the boat they were on capsized. NBC's Craig Melvin reports.
Investigators are trying to learn more about the crucial seconds before a yacht capsized off Long Island, killing three children and leaving 24 others scrambling for their lives.
The July Fourth accident has left more questions than answers in the search for a definitive cause. Investigators are counting on gaining knowledge from survivors and the boat itself once it is brought up from 60 feet below the surface of Long Island Sound.
Efforts to raise the boat might begin as early as Friday.
Authorities said several possibilities might have combined to doom the vessel known as Candi 1 as it was being positioned so passengers could watch fireworks.
Nassau County Detective Lt. John Azzata said the cause remained under investigation but possibilities include the weather, overcrowding and a wake from another vessel. He said the area was busy with boaters watching the fireworks.
The boat's skipper, Sal Aureliano, has told TV's News12 Long Island that he saw two lightning bolts and then a wave suddenly hit the 34-foot boat off Oyster Bay, on the north shore of Long Island.
"It turned the boat around," he said, his voice cracking. "It just turned the boat. I didn't see it. It was dark. I didn't see it."
"The next thing I know, we're turning, and we just kept turning, and everybody was in the water. It was chaos," said Aureliano, who didn't answer the door to The Associated Press.
Authorities said the children who died got trapped in the cabin.
Killed were Aureliano's nephew David Aureliano, 12, and two girls, 11-year-old Harley Treanor and 8-year-old Victoria Gaines. No serious injuries were reported by the 24 other adult-and-children passengers who were rescued from the water, mostly by fellow boaters.
The Silverton yacht was built in 1984 but purchased recently. The yacht company filed for bankruptcy in April, and no one was available to say what the maximum number aboard should be.
The boat's owner is Kevin Treanor, said attorney James Mercante, who was hired by an insurance company to represent him. Mercante said he had not spoken with Treanor but emphasized Treanor wasn't the yacht's operator when the accident occurred.
Three kids dead after yacht capsizes off Long Island
Telephone calls to Treanor's home and work telephones went unanswered Thursday night.
Police and the Coast Guard would not say how many of those aboard were adults and how many were children. Safety experts said most boats have a manufacturer's plate that lists capacity by number of adults and by total weight. So theoretically, a boat could safely handle more passengers if some were children.
Richard Drew / AP
Two police boats are stationed near the opening to Long Island Sound in Lloyd Harbor, N.Y., as investigators try to learn more about the crucial seconds before a yacht capsized off Long Island.
Phil Cusumano, a Boston-based safety instructor and yacht captain with 35 years of experience, said there is no question the boat was badly overloaded. He said he would limit a vessel of that size to six adults. Other boating sites suggested a maximum of 15 passengers.
"Twenty-seven is just crazy," Cusumano said. "I wouldn't dream of doing that. I wouldn't do it at the dock, much less take it out on the water. It would tip over with the first turn."
Each Fourth of July, vessels crowd the Long Island Sound shoreline to watch public and private fireworks displays. When the shows end, the exodus can be the nautical equivalent of a highway traffic jam.
Scott Menzies, who said he positioned his 20-foot motor boat in the area to take in the celebration but did not see the accident, estimated there were at least 1,000 vessels on the water.
"It was pretty crazy," he said.
However, conditions on the water were calm during the fireworks and afterward, Menzies said.
Though there was some rain around 10 p.m., conditions were in "no way bad enough" to capsize a large boat on their own, said David Waldo, an expert boater who was also on the water Wednesday night.
Waldo, executive director of the WaterFront Center, a nonprofit sailing school in Oyster Bay, called the number of people aboard the yacht "alarming." School sailboats around the same length have a capacity of seven, he said.
"It's just asking for a situation where things can go wrong and compound on themselves," he said.
Another boater told Newsday he saw the yacht turn and then tip over after it was hit by a wake.
"It was like in slow motion," said Sammy Balasso, of Oyster Bay. "All of a sudden, a lot of bodies were in the water."
Balasso said he put the spotlight of his 38-foot speedboat on the capsized vessel and threw all the life jackets he had into the water. He said he rescued 20 people.
"Everybody was panicking," Balasso said. "People were saying things like 'Why?'"
Azzata said the boat should have had a life jacket for each person on board, but it was unclear if it did. Under state law, children under 12 are not required to wear life vests if they are in the main cabin, where the three victims were.
Mike Treanor, who was related to some of the victims, answered the door at his suburban home in nearby Huntington.
"It's a family tragedy," he said.
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27 people on a 34-foot boat! What were they thinking?
They weren't thinking.
I counted approximately 20 people on Romney's during this past vacation. And his is what? 20ft?
We have been boaters all my life. No way 27 people should be on a 34 foot boat. And it's not the number of people, it's the weight. Unfortunately, this will turn out to be the fault of the owner/operator. People get boats, are inexperienced, and want to be the big man with the cool boat. Well, that can cost people their lives.
And also, as a guest, what are you thinking to get on a boat of this size with this many people? People need to use some common sense.
What is really sad is that MNSBC, no doubt being overly cautious, has to title the article "WAS the boat overloaded?" like this was open for debate or something.
Instead, they should be screaming, "Hey people, putting 27 people on a 34-foot boat is not only unsafe, but moronic!"
Where would they even sit or stand? We are talking maybe eight below decks, another eight to ten in the stern and maybe eight (!!) on the flying bridge. They would have to be sitting on each other's laps!
Yes, people can sit on the bow, but not legally while underway.
MSNBC seems bent on blaming the"large wake" from another boat. But if you go to sea, you have to expect waves, that is part and parcel of the deal. You can't go out in a boat that is so heavily loaded that a boat wake capsizes it and then blame the boat wake.
One review of the Silverton 34 says that "it is all the boat a family of FOUR or SIX could want!"
But a family of 27? What were they thinking?
Most boats in this size range, unlike small craft, do not have stated capacities. My runabout had a plate on it stating how many people it would hold. I do not recall seeing this prominently displayed on larger boats I have owned.
Maybe it is time it was.
Problem is, I see people load kayaks, inflatables, Jet skis, giant coolers, generators, fish lockers, or whatever, on a boat, until the swim platform is awash. Like with an RV, they think if can fit on the boat, it's copacetic.
The results are predictable. Less is more!
I can't believe there is even any QUESTION of overloading. 27 people + 34-foot boat = disaster. The end.
MSNBC Headline: Was Long Island boat overcrowded before it capsized, killing 3 kids?
Does a bear sh!t in the woods?
What they were thinking is that nobody told them that it was unwise. Commercial yachts & ships have load limits. Small recreational watercraft have a plackard attached say the maximum number of people or weight the vessel can safely carry. On most private yacht above about 30' the only requirement is that you carry a PFD (life jacket) for each person aboard, and that children under 13 must wear their PFD while on deck or in an exposed area. They could have legally had 50 or 100 people on board. An experienced captain may have warned him, but the average sunday sailor just doesn't know, and nobody tells him (with a load limit plaque)
How is that boat even classified as a yacht? To me, a yacht is a large boat that can hold at least 20 people in relative comfort. It's big enough to seat all of them for dinner, and have room to have a party.
With that many people on a boat that size I have no doubt that overloading played a major part in this tragedy. I grew up spending a good part of my life on boats of all kinds and can tell you there is no way that it is safe to have 27 people on a 34 foot boat. A wake from another pleasure boat should in no way be able to capsize a 34 foot power boat unless the boat was unstable due to overloading to start with. I would also bet that there were not enough life jackets on board (I have never seen a pleasure boat that size with that many life jackets on board) not that I think that would have made much difference, at least for the two kids that were trapped in the boat's cabin. Even had they had the life jackets on board, it is doubtful that the kids would have been wearing them since, unfortunately, most people ignore the rules on kids wearing life jackets when on deck to start with. The owner of the boat is in for some very serious legal troubles both for overloading his boat and for violating safety regulations by not having adequate life jackets and requiring the children on deck to wear them. Contrary to what this story says, one of the children that died was not in the cabin at the time of the accident and was not found in the boat's cabin. The strict liability that applies to vessel operators under US law is going to hold him responsible for these deaths.
That boat was only rated for up to 15 people. Even then, 15 people on that boat would be crowded.
hey, good job everyone! the only knucklehead to drag obama or romney into this was waylong. I expected more.
and the use of "?" in headlines needs to go. A headline should be a statement, not a question, especially a stupid question like this, of course the boat was overloaded!
As a boat owner, I give everyone a safety talk before we leave the dock. I emphasize how dangerous a boat is, even in very calm water. I tell everyone where the safety equipment is and how to use it. I require all children to put on the lifevest. I never overload the boat. The boat has a sticker the tells the allowable weight/number of people. I would never dream of taking more than the allowable weight or number of people. When I first heard of this tragedy I knew instantly that the boat was overloaded. I could not believe that there were 27 souls aboard. I would guess that 10-12 was the maximum capacity. Boating is even more dangerous at night time, even for the most experienced captain. Add to all this the crowd of boats in the area and you have the recipe for disaster. Boating is safe but only if you follow the rules.
i'll bet the boat was also listing from too many people on the fireworks viewing side of the boat. i've seen canoes capsize when both paddlers looked back at someone who tipped over. they both looked over the same shoulder, hand braced on the gunnels and whoop, over they went just like the one's they were gawking at.
Cusumano isnt an expert on boating. Saying only 6 people is safe on a 34' boat is silly. A 22' boat with a 8-6 beam would have a capacity of 10. I'll be praying for the family
It sounds to me like that captain should be charged with negligent homicide, or manslaughter.
I am not a boater, but every seasoned captain, who has commented here (and on the previous story), has said it was grossly overloaded.
Not a chance. There may be a civil case a lawyer wants to make, but there were no laws broken if he had sufficient PFDs aboard. To the best of my knowledge that boat has no stated load limit. It's therefore a judgement call.
Of course it was overloaded. We had a 28' boat and we could have 11, and you still had to follow the weight guidelines. DUH
Never set out with more than 8 passengers on a 30 footer on a day sale. For a 4 -5 hr casual sail with sandwiches around the harbor or marina 10 passengers would be very tight on a 30 ft boat. I can not imagine how uncomfortable these people must have been on this boat! The captains negligence is the crime here ! ! !
Clearly the boat was overcrowded. it should only have had 6-8 people on board. Any 24 ft motor boat that capsizes when a small wave hits, is a terribly designed boat, and any boat with that much topsides weight, is clearly unstable and prone to capsize. Charge the captain with 3 counts of manslaughter
It was 34' and some "expert" says no more than 5 people? It ought to handle a dozen easily. 27, no way I'd be on it.
I am amazed at the journalists who keep calling the thing a yacht. Anyone who knows a bow from a stern knows that it's a boat up to 49' and at 50' begins the yachts.
34 people? and the kids were in "the cabin" which means there was not an open bow, which gives me the mental picture of a college bar on quarter beer night.
You are amazed easily my friend!
The Silverton website, older designs section, lists a boat as the 34 Motor Yacht. Creative marketing by the advertiser crowd. As far as overloading, I have some questions. If you go to a ski or wakeboat website you see capacities for 10 people in a 20ft wake boat like the Moomba V. Step up to a Mobius Gravity XLV and you can carry 16 in a 26ft boat. That is a 60% increase in capacity for a 30% length increase. So a 34ft might be expected to carry 24 people maximum. Am looking at this correctly or should I be accounting for the superstructure and reducing maximum persons on board capacity?
David, I think it depends on weight. The more weight you put on a boat, the lower it sits in the water, as it displaces more and more water.
Load it up enough, and you lose your freeboard and sink. If the boat had a "walk-through" stern door, water could lap right through that.
And of course, any thru-hulls, like for bilge pumps, might back-feed water and fill the bilge and sink the boat that way.
So, overall weight is the issue.
Wake boats have water tanks that can be filled to lower the boat for a larger wake for wake boarding. No doubt they are designed to carry this weight, and when empty, can carry a corresponding weight in people. Nevertheless, putting 10 people in a 20-foot boat would be dicey - where would they all sit, for starters?
When we sold our last boat, I was amazed at all the "stuff" we had stowed aboard it over the years - spare parts, spare prop, pots and pans, books, clothing, beach chairs - you-name-it.
When we got all the "stuff" off it, it sat several inches higher in the water.
I saw a guy once who put an aluminum pickup truck tool box on the back of his 28 footer, along with a giant cooler large enough to hold a body. Behind that, he had lashed a 10' inflatable and an outboard motor. And he took this nightmare out on the ocean!
The water was lapping over the swim platform.
We see this all the time in RVs - people load them up until the tires blow out, and then blame the tires for being "defective".
It is the "I bought it, so I know how to drive it" mentality. And it can kill people.
Well FLHRI, it was technically a yacht. Seasoned boaters may not use the term for smaller cabin cruiser vessels such as these, but that doesn't make the fact of it untrue.
FLHRI:
Compared to my 16' fishing boat, 34' is a yacht. There is no hard and fast definition of a yacht (look it up). You want to say 50', that's fine. MSNBC wants to consider 34' a yacht, that's okay too. Who died and left you the Director of Nautical Terminology?
The best definition I ever heard was:
"If you step on to it and it doesn't move, its a Yacht, but if you step on to it and it rocks back and forth, it's just a boat"
Works for me.
In every boat and RV brochure, they list a capacity that is unrealistically optimistic. An RV that says it can sleep 10, can only really sleep six adults, and two of them aren't going to have any privacy. You might squeeze four small kids inside, but they are going to be sleeping on the couch with two laying on a mattress on the floor. It's the same with boats. It might say it can carry eight people, but two of them will be seating on a cooler or a tiny jump seat. There also will be no room to move around. Yes it can carry that many, but only if you want everyone to be uncomfortable.
FLHRI:
34 people? and the kids were in "the cabin" which means there was not an open bow, which gives me the mental picture of a college bar on quarter beer night.
Um, 27 people. 27 people. Not 34. Granted, 27 people was too many but you don't have to go around making it worse than it actually was. Oh, and the term "yacht" applies to a recreational vessel and size doesn't come into the picture. Some types of yachts are actually smaller than 34'. Oh, wait a second... that must be where you got 34 people. Better start proofreading your posts.
Hmm Technically any vessel not engaged in commercial pactices may be considered a yacht, (comes from the old dutch Jaght) Iif water was siphoned up through a thru hull through rolling in a wake and without adequate anti-siphoning devices then the boat will definitely go down, wakes produce postive and negative water flow in pipes. Though the thruhull may have an above waterline loop there is nothing to prevent the water from being siphoned into the boat, as the boat sinks so more water is siphoned until the pumps are unable to keep up with the intake of water, then osmosis takes over (the attraction of one object to another in this case the boat to the bottom of L.I sound), as for the amount of people, way overloaded, and if there was water in the bilge to begin with then that water added to the wieght of the people (especially if the boat is rolling) is a recipe for disaster. Being a sailor I am so sorry for the families, I feel their devastation.
Most boats of that size are spec'd to carry 10 to 12 people MAX. Apparently the captain (or whoever was handling the boat) was not skilled at maneuvering in the dark and was in crowded, rough water when the boat went over. Probably everyone was gathered along one rail and the boat tipped over too far. Not a wise decision in the first place, but now lives have been ruined and somebody is minus a nice boat.
I've a small trailer half the size of this boat and I can't imagine having 12 or 13 people in it, even if they were all children. I'm betting very few of them had life jackets on either, in or outside of the cabin. Overloaded, it would be low in the water and easier for a wave to take it over. The owner can talk all he wants about the freakish wave, but his boat was the one that tipped - none of the other boats did and you've got to wonder why.
Owning a boat and taking OTHER people out on it charges you with some basic responsibilities with regards to seamanship and safety. As other folks have pointed out, the boat was GROSSLY overloaded. It's a shame that three innocent kids had to pay for this guys irresponsibility and lack of knowledge.
This was an accident waiting to happen. The overloading of the boat reduced its freeboard (the height of its sides above the water) and altered its stability so that it was easilly capsized. The wave the captain referred to was likely wake from passing boats, and entirely expectable. The problem was compounded by the fact that watching fireworks would have likely clustered people to one side, making it list, thereby further reducuing the freedboard on that side and making a capsize on that side even more likely. Apparently in the quest for money this captain sought too many passengers with a tragic result.
Who said that money was involved? The boat in question was a private craft. According to today's New York Times, at least one of the owners was on board, although it was a relative of one of the owners who was at the helm because of his greater experience.
Did he even have 27 life jackets on board? They are required, one for each person.
THAT, would/should be the deciding factor when it comes to the captain's responsibility.
I think good ole Sal the operator of the boat will face charges of unsafe operation of a boat. Not enough life preservers, over loaded to the max, Darwin entry for sure.
It seems like this captain was set on a good time and completely disregarded all safety. Because of this, three children are dead. Prayers for their families.
I owned a 35 ft Carver Cruiser for years and never allow more than 6 guests on-board when we went out on the water. I cruised Galveston Bay in Texas with no problems, The skipper/captain of this vessel should be charged with the deaths. By Texas law the Skipper/Captain of any vessel is responsible for everyone's safety on-board. I believe that law is nation-wide.
I don't understand 27 people and not one of them was smart enought to think....mmm maybe this is a bad idea? Seriously??? I feel so sorry for those little kids because these people should have known better.
We have a restored 35' Chris Craft, the old heavy fiberglass. Have been on piloting boats for 35 years and we would never have 27 people on our 35' vessel. It is reckless and dangerous regardless of the vessel.This is particularly so when you know the boat traffic is going to heavy, maneuvering room tight, thunderstorms passing through.
A Silverton is known to be top heavy without the 6 people if can "comfortably" seat on their flybridge. They are also known to ride high on the water not well into the water. We have seen Silvertons pitch and roll in wakes that hardly disturb other boats of equal size. Silvertons are known to be marina boats, so to load one with so many and head out into a crowded and as waters are unpredictable with the threat of possible weather, would seem ill advised and foolish.
There seems to be an issue of lack of boating experience in this tragedy. Anyone with boating experience would know not to load a 34' boat with so many bodies big or small.
It is such a shame such young lives were lost...
"Was Long Island boat overcrowded before it capsized, killing 3 kids?"
REALLY, what a stupid follow up story. This is like asking does a bear @!$%# in the woods....
Nothing should be considered obvious, and every question should be examined.
Barry-NJ, Nothing should be considered obvious? I have never seen a lack of common sence to this degree in my life. How can you have this many adults and not one has a clue that this is a bad idea. You don't have to be a captain or engineer to know when you run out of seats there are to many people. You have 5 or 6 seats in a car you don't try to fit 12 in there. Yeah Barry aka- Nothing should be considered obvious i see guys like you and sal every weekend at our lakes in pa. Got the money for the big boat come to the lake don't even know how to start it or get it off the trailor then load it up with people and fly around the lake with no regrd for anyone.
No doubt the legal department at MSNBC had a hand here. Asking the question can't be seen as libelous, while stating it as a fact might be viewed that way.
So, today, people are afraid to state the obvious, for fear of lawsuits.
The guy who shoots a Congresswoman in the face in front of 50 people and is wrestled to the ground is called "the ALLEGED gunman".
Query: Do you really think people like that are going to sue MSNBC for libel?
I think it is reasonable to opine that a 34-foot boat is clearly overloaded with 27 people.
But our media likes to play it safe - and dumb it down.
Allen ... I'm sticking to my original post. As the article pointed out, the boat's manufacturer is out of business, so we don't know its guidelines for overcrowding. There are no national guidelines that define "overcrowding." If the number of people on board didn't cause it to capsize, then perhaps the boat wasn't "overcrowded."
Now, my first reaction is that the boat is overcrowded. Growing up, my family had a 45' boat that had a lot more floor space than this boat and we would never have considered having 20+ people on board. But, jumping to conclusions is not the way to investigate and solve an accident. Investigators should have an open mind on EVERYTHING when they start to work or they may fail to find the true cause of an accident. I'm not saying that they won't declare the boat overcrowded five minutes into their work, but it is a point that has to be officially addressed and not just assumed.
This boat was very over crowded and unstable. I have been in a boat after a fireworks show, calm water becomes very rough and choppy as boats start to leave. This tragedy could have been avoided had the boat owner only used common sense.
It's a fair guess the boat was way overloaded. I'm not sure why the captain did not know. I have run several types of boats (searays and what not) and every boat had a max occupancy and weight rating. Usually a sticker or something more.
If it's a boat over 26 feet you didn't see a capicity plate...
Maybe it is time for capacity plates on larger boats?
Or how about some common sense
The government and lawyers do not need to be in everything.
Way too many people on board. Being the 4th, I wonder if alcohol might have been involved too. Holidays are the absolute worst time to be out on the water. Way too many people that don't know what they are doing. "Doing fine" - Nobama 2012.
So far, authorities have said that alcohol was not a factor.
As an experienced boater ( 55 years inshore and offshore ) I feel that the boat was overloaded and in addition, it was not EVENLY loaded. There are rules of physics that apply. If the weight is up high ( like too many on the flying bridge to watch the fireworks ) even 8 people might be too many. Had all of the people been below in the cabin, the weight might have been distributed better and he might have gotten away with the overloading, but for a fireworks display I am betting that many of the guests were topside on the upper deck and on the bridge. With a non displacement boat like this, this is a recipe for disaster. With hundreds of boats in a relatively small area for fireworks viewing, you have to expect some large wakes from other boats ( the a$$hole factor ) and it is the captains job to load the boat properly and keep the weight distributed properly. Yes, it was overloaded, but the distribution of the weight probably was more of a causal factor than the total weight. Operating a boat does require some basic knowledge and skills, operating a boat at night in a crowded area requires a lot of skill and experience. Captain of the boat is ultimately responsible for the safety of his passengers. This is a tragedy for all involved.
While the "captain" is responsible, the OWNER is fully responsible. Look up the law. How is it that so many boat owners do not know this? Have you ever taken a basic safe boating course?
Metacentric height, righting arm, and righting moment are all just theory until you prove them to be laws of buoyancy. If manslaughter charges are coming, they will come from New York, not the federal government (i.e. US attorney & US Coast Guard). There are two regulations that apply federally...negligent or grossly negligent operations. The first is a civil penalty...the second is a misdemeanor. Both are inadequate to the circumstance here.
This vessel was grossly overloaded...the vessel's operator (I refuse to call him a captain) own statements are damning. A properly loaded vessel would not have capsized due to another vessel's wake in Oyster Bay.
I am sad for the loss of the children (and the rest of the passengers) who were in this fool's care. He'll have to live with his ignorance (stupidity) for the rest of his life.
~ Licensed 100GT Master, Near Coastal
What he said.
If you estimate an average weight of 150 lbs per passenger (children less, some fat adults way more) it's 2 TONS of human on that 34' boat, a very dangerous situation indeed. It must have been standing room only.
This is tragic, but 37 people on a 34 footer is ludicrous; the captain should be cited. Having served in the Coast Guard, this was an accident waiting to happen. This boat should not have been allowed to leave port.
27, not 37.
My condolences to the families involved. I am no expert, but that sounds like way too many people on that yacht!
Wow, so sad for those kids - trapped in the cabin! What a terrible way to die! My heart hurts just thinking of that! R.I.P. youngsters! So sorry your lives were taken so soon and that the adults were thinking more of "fun" than safety for you! As parents, our first priority always must be safety for our kids!
I smell a lawsuit & Lawyers too. Stupidity should be painful!
Stupid question. Twenty seven people in a thirty-four foot boat is insanely overcrowded. It was a tragedy just waiting to happen and it did. Cannot believe there were so many brain dead adults who obviously never seriously considered the overcrowing issue.
Silverton has been making boats for many years. They make a good boat. Like any good tool it must be used per the guidlines. A 34 ft Silverton is not designed to carry 27 passengers safely. Coast Guard Regulations prohibit such an act. When you do this you are taking other people's lives in your hands as well as your own.
What's a normal boating day?? You never know what to expect while on the Sea. You must follow all safety precautions and warnings. Overloading a boat is a sure and quick ticket to disaster.
Sailboats have a weighted Keel to keep them upright in heavy winds and under sail, so an overloaded sailboat with the Sails reefed(down) is no big deal in calm waters under normal circumstances. (this is not recommended)
Power Boats, Stink Potters, Motor Yachts are not so designed. They can roll with an overcrowded deck because the center of gravity is reversed and their is no weighted keel to keep the boat upright.
Boaters see an overcrowded Sailboat and think they can get away with the same risks with a motor boat. Not happening.
My prayers go out to these families that have lost so much.