And, if Zimmerman is found not guilty, he will still have to live in fear from those convinced of Zimmerman's guilt who would seek retribution.

Yeah, and if all black people would stay away from "white" neighborhoods, then poor Zimmerman wouldn't have had to spend all his nights stalking black people armed with a gun.

I wonder if he will go outside his safety zone now that there is real danger out there waiting for him

So evidently there's a lot of stupid black racists out there according to Raymond.

Hey, Raymond House, is your middle name "Safe" by chance?

He could "actively participate" in his defense from jail. There are many people who do. What, exactly, does his lawyer think he's going to help with when he's hiding in a safe house? I can't believe the stupid people out there who donated to this liar and killer.... they could have helped thousands of HONEST law-abiding folks who need help with food from pantries that are sitting nearly empty!! He was just fine (and safe) in jail. It's where he belongs, and hopefully where he'll soon return to serve 25 to life for killing an unarmed child. Yes, I'm white. A white parent who believes that grown men need to act like it.

I'm behind u Raymond House. I have a feeling Zimmerman will not get a fair trial. We will see.

I wonder if Zimmerman realizes now that shooting and killing an unarmed teenager was a really bad idea. I hope this coward has to hide under his bed the rest of his miserable life.

@RaymondHouse and Steven B: you're both right. A young man is dead; another is marked for life.

Nobobdy wins.

Jay -

Most of the grown men I know do not convict a person based on news reports (inclcuding those which have been doctored by the the media.

I feel sad for your children.

@ Big Al Las Vegas -Why would he think it's a bad idea? He's walking around free, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pocket. If he hadn't shot a black boy he would still be a poor, nameless, loser. I'd say he's probably pretty happy right about now. For as long as it lasts. His life, that is.

People that think Zimmerman was not wrong better hope what happened to Trayvon does not happen to their kid, because this will be the norm that it's alright to shoot a teenager just because they look like a hoodlum.

Zimmerman will walk out of court with a NOT GUILTY verdict. Why? Because all of which Zimmerman has presented to the officials, as well as the fact that witnesses support his
version of the story. Travon attacked him. AND the word attacked is not used
lightly here. What George did was not break the law. He is allowed to follow
and watch someone in his neighborhood and report his suspicions, which he did.
Why did not Travon call 911 if he was scared or beeline to his I think Aunt's
house? He chose to go back and attack Zimmerman. Never the less it is an
unbelievable tragedy.

When will George Zimmerman's phone records be released?

I would be very interested to see if GZ received any calls during the half hour before he headed out and spotted Trayvon.

Most of the grown men I know do not convict a person based on news reports (inclcuding those which have been doctored by the the media.

I feel sad for your children.

You must be kidding...are you stating that GZ didn't kill someone or he is innocent because he "only killed a black child?". I am certain, based on the evidence so far and the lies and innuendo coming from the GZ camp that this SOB is guilty as hell and belongs in jail for life.

Hey Sandra.brooks ~ sounds like you were one of the witness' that saw the whole thing go down. I gather you are a witness for the defense?

Not everyone just sits in their car safe ignoring the world around them. Some feel the need to look out for thier nieghbors when seeing something odd.

I agree that it's nice to watch out for each other, KDFman.

However, Trayvon Martin was doing no wrong. Base only on GZ's suspicions, George Zimmerman acted like a policeman which he had no authority to do;

let this thing die down, all the information will come out at trial, even though the prosecutor knows she has a losing case, she will not drop the charges; there will be a trial, and the evidence will finally come out, even the Judge will not take the heat and dismiss the charges, if a person is attacked and bodily harm is involved, that person may use any and all force necessary against the person attacking him/her.

@ sandra.brooks

You're delusional. Zimmerman can claim that Travon attacked him all he wants but that doesn't mean the jury has to believe him. Of course Zimm will claim self-defense, the other side can't tell his story because Zimm murdered him!

Even if Zimmerman is found not guilty he will have to flee the country because he will always be a "marked man" in the States because of his foolish actions. Was it worth it Zimmy boy!!!

This guy should be staying in a Florida jail, not in a safe house. After his conviction, the word safe will no longer having meaning for him.

jag24659

Hey jag24659... could you show me all the EVIDENCE you apparently have access to? I'd REALLY like to be able to make decision LIKE YOU about someones innocence or guilt BEFORE the TRIAL.

I surmise you believe in the adage Guilty until proved innocent!... Oh yeah, that's wrong... by the CONSTITUTION, it's a PRESUMPTION of INNOCENCE until Proved guilty.

This guy should be staying in a Florida jail, not in a safe house.

No, Roger. We need to respect Judge Lester's ruling.

Maggie, what about the witnesses that support his version of being on the bottom having his head beat in? This even came out in the latest bond hearing. Broken nose and so so SO much more that supports his version of the events. He will walk on the 2nd degree murder charge. No "murder" occurred. I agree with you on one thing and that he will most likely be a marked man as you so eloquently put it. The trial will be where many Zimmerman haters will be surprised.... FACTS are facts. Getting your information for edited pieces or salacious headlines the networks so go for is not the place to gather the facts.

After looking at the objective
evidence which was released by the state of Florida, I haven’t found anything
that could legally convict him of Murder II as it is defined by Law. I know
there is more evidence to be released and perhaps there will be something of
substance to try/ convict him of murder II. However, the burden of proof falls
on the prosecution and they are going to have a difficult time with the current
evidence.

It really doesn’t matter legally if
Zimmerman is a “racist wannabe cop” or if Trayvon was a “pot smoking thug” as
none of this adds to the legality of the killing.

Arguing that if Zimmerman didn’t get
out of his car, none of this would happen is legally insignificant since the
same could be said that if Trayvon wasn’t walking through the neighborhood
after getting suspended none of this would happen. It is not illegal to get out
of your car, it’s not illegal to approach someone, it’s not illegal to walk through
someone’s neighborhood wearing a hoodie. It is, however, illegal to initiate an
altercation and so far there is no evidence, other than Zimmerman’s testimony/
statement, to show who initiated this confrontation. Like it or not, the onus
is on the prosecution and while you may think what he did was ethically reprehensible,
the legality of the situation is not at all in the prosecution’s favor.

How many death threats did OJ get when he was acquitted of murder? Any bounties placed on his head? Was he constantly looking over his shoulder when he was out enjoying a round of golf? I wonder if he mentioned it in his book.

KDFman...If just one of those neighbors came out of their safe condos when they heard the screams for help none of this would have happened

KDFman,

Your post is absurd.

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, Trayvon would still be alive.

Because of his own foolish actions, Zimmerman is now facing a 2nd degree murder charge.

...in Criminal Court.

George is a vigilante that should be sentenced to prison.

Raymond House

There have been thousands of people killed while sitting in their cars what makes you think this might not have turned out that way?

A good % of people who are defending this murdering weasel are not doing so because they believe him to be innocent. Many are doing so because of their fears of African American males and the stigma that is still attached to being black in America. They are defending Zimmerman's behavior also because they fear that their gun rights may be in danger as this case may just set the type of president that should have been made before this stand your ground law was enacted. The bottom line is this kid was not armed with any type of weapon. Zimmerman's life was not in danger as he claims. He could have walked away from this a free man, unscathed and untarnished but he chose to let his fear and militant loathing of young black men doom him to an even bigger burden. Try as he may Omara will be able to explain this away.

IXL-------

Trayvon was defending himself from a suspicious follower. This follower should have stayed in his vehicle and let the police discover that Trayvon Martin was totally innocent.

Gregory I dissagree. Zimmerman is CHARGED with 2nd degree murder. Prosecutor Angela Corey has an uphill battle to prove that Zimmerman acted with the malicious intent which I understand is required to
convict him of 2^nd degree murder in the death of Trayvon. Based on the available facts, it’s a huge overreach. That is why I believe he will walk. We will see at the trial….. Why this is a black and white thing is WAYYYY beyond me.

Why was Trayvon's body found 30 feet from where Zimmerman pointed out he shot Trayvon?

.

(see George Zimmerman pointing out the shooting location in the re-enactment video Part 2 where Zimmerman is with the investigators)

Sandra, I especially disagree with your FACT #5

Fact - When asked to stop pursuing Trayvon George Zimmerman said "OK".

GZ continued talking to the dispatcher for one to two minutes after he indicated with an OKAY to the dispatcher that he would stop following Trayvon--- during which time he could have been back to ( or very near to ) his silver vehicle which was parked a little past the mail boxes.

George Zimmerman Reenacts Shooting of Treyvon Martin for Police at Crime Scene (Part 2)

.

Go to 5:58/ of 8:03 on the video-----where Zimmerman says

GZ--"After I shot him, he like sat up....

Investigator--"You're still in this position here basically...you bring(being?) him out here...You shot him so he's in the grass

GZ--"Yes, sir. He was on top of me like this and I shot him. And I didn't think I hit him 'cause he sat up and said ah.oh 'You got me. You got it. You got me' something like that. So I thought he was saying, I know you have a gun now, I heard it, I'm giving up. So I don't know if I pushed him off me or he fell off me. Either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart and I said ''don't move'

Investigator--"Kinda flipped him over?

GZ--"I don't remember how I got on top of him-I'm sorry-

Investigator--"That's fine

GZ--"But I got on his back and I moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head, I thought he had something in his hands and so I ...just...moved his hands apart

Interviewer--"but you had him face down then?

GZ--"Yes...face down and I was on his back and then someone came with a flashlight........

.******************************************************************************************************

All of you can use this as you please to come to your own conclusions.

Thoughful comments - You may or may not be right. Based on "so called" facts I have researched, I understand that Zimmerman responed with OK. What he did afterwards is up to debate.

Zimmerman gets out of his SUV before the dispatcher asks (probably because the wind is suddenly audible in the background), "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says yes, and the dispatcher replies, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman says "OK" and then dithers for a minute or so about where police should meet him, finally saying they should call him when they arrive, "and I'll tell them where I'm at." The dispatcher agrees, and the recording ends at that point.

The trial will be the deciding factor, but as you know I believe the Prosecution can not convict on 2nd degree murder.

How nice, all these divine people who can judge and execute Zimmerman without even knowing all the facts. Or is 'this' the REAL definition of ignorance?

Zimmerman will walk out of court with a NOT GUILTY verdict. Why? Because all of which Zimmerman has presented to the officials, as well as the fact that witnesses support his
version of the story. Travon attacked him. AND the word attacked is not used
lightly here. What George did was not break the law. He is allowed to follow
and watch someone in his neighborhood and report his suspicions, which he did.
Why did not Travon call 911 if he was scared or beeline to his I think Aunt's
house? He chose to go back and attack Zimmerman. Never the less it is an
unbelievable tragedy.

I believe you Sandra, but this has turned into a political/racial issue. I suspect it is partially to grow sympathy for a black president during an election year, and partially due to the insistent hatred of blacks against whites.

Fortunately, our system tries to keep government out of criminal courts, but the fact that a completely different prosecuting attorney was externally appointed to run this case tells me that 'justice' isn't a concern here.

Zimmerman.....Innocent until proven guilty......................................................................................?

Trayvon......Zimmerman judged him, found him guilty(They always get away), and was executioner.....BANG!

Why does Trayvon get to be guilty until proven innocent? I believe that they both get that right, do they not? Just because the killer said the other guy hit him first, does not necessarily make it so. I cannot wait to hear how the whole thing plays out in thee actual trial. But for all of you who say that Trayvon hit him first, you are speculating based on the word of the killer.

he loves publicity.......anything to get his name in the news....WHAT A COWARD!

"In addition to the $15,000 Mr. Zimmerman paid for his previous bond, $85,000 was paid from the George Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund to reach the 10 percent of the $1,000,000 required”

Yes, but who came up with the million dollar collateral? And, why the secrecy about it? Could it be that they don't want the world to know that the kkk is supporting them (as if it weren't obvious by some of the comments on this board)?

I am disappointed that the prosecutor went for a murder 2 charge. That charge is the least likely to get a conviction. Most people (I know.. an assumption) would say this was negligent manslaughter. Yes, Treyvon is dead and Martin handled the incident with a negligent attitude. The murder 2 charge is NOT the right charge, for this reckless gunslinger!

It is if you want him to get away with it. Look at the casey anthony trial. they should have gone for a lesser charge.

Sandra:: You said that when Zimmerman was told to quit pursuing Trayvon he said "OK". Just because he said OK sure as heck doesn't mean OK. And in his case I doubt if OK meant OK.

And Sandra:: You said you are a news junkie? Then how come you couldn't get it straight whose house Trayvon was returning to? It wasn't his aunt's house.

The medical report on George Zimmerman-- he did go to the doctor the next day to get a note from the doctor that he was ill and couldn't work-- said his nose was LIKELY broken (not that is was broken) and the two wounds on the back of his head were not serious enough to need stitches. They were two SMALL cuts on the back of his head (not indicitive of his head being bashed against the sidewalk). He did get a script for pain pills.

If I had gotten whupped as he said he was and was bleeding like a stuck pig, I would have gone to the doctor ASAP-- not waited till the next day.

I wouldn't put it past him to have hit his head on the headboard of the bed!

GZ--"But I got on his back and I moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head, I thought he had something in his hands and so I ...just...moved his hands apart

The police report found Martin lying facedown in the grass with his hands trapped underneath his body. But Zimmerman moved his hands apart?

And he's changed his story several times, according to a NY Times article:

What Zimmerman told his father

Robert Zimmerman, George’s father, said that George was walking back to his truck when Trayvon appeared from behind. Trayvon punched George in the nose and slammed his head into the sidewalk, he said. When George tried to move away from the pavement onto the grass, the gun inside his waistband became visible. Mr. Zimmerman said that George believes Trayvon saw the pistol and said, “You are going to die tonight.” Moments later, George pulled out his pistol and shot Trayvon in the chest.

What Zimmerman told police

In an account given to the Sanford police, George Zimmerman said that he lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his S.U.V. when the teen approached him from behind and asked him if he had a problem. Mr. Zimmerman said the two exchanged words before Trayvon punched him to the ground, then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk in the moments leading up the shooting. When police arrived on the scene, he told officers that he had cried out for help but no one had come to help.

What detectives told Trayvon’s father

Detectives gave Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, an account of the events that Mr. Martin finds hard to believe. Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, was told that Trayvon approached Mr. Zimmerman twice. First, he walked up to Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Mr. Zimmerman denied following him. Trayvon walked away, and Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Trayvon then approached him from behind a building and said, “What’s your problem, homie?” Mr. Zimmerman said he did not have a problem, and Trayvon attacked him. Trayvon hit Mr. Zimmerman and pinned him to the ground. Mr. Zimmerman pulled his gun as he was being beat and fired one shot. “You got me,” Trayvon said, falling back.

At this point, I don't believe anything he's said. I'm not paying attention to his testimony to form an opinion. And i suspect neither will the lawyers and the court, because if the changing story weren't enough, his hiding finances ruins his credibility. I believe a lie by omission is still a lie.

@Sam...

Martin didn't look like a hoodlum... he ACTED like one when he was bashing Zimmerman's head againt the sidewalk... And this is the only reason why he was shot.

Susie, you said: And Sandra: You said you are a news junkie? Then how come you couldn't get it straight whose house Trayvon was returning to? It wasn't his aunt's house.

I wrote I think Aunt's house, but remembered it was his Dad's girlfriend's house due to Trayvon being expelled from school.

Troll fail biff.

Yaknow, when you got to pretend like you're a black person making a poor argument against Zimmerman in order to make them look stupid; it only indicates that your true position is untenable.

A strawman in the truest sense.

look all of you stop this is a child some body brother both of them some mother is hurting one more that the other i am a mom and i can not think if some body kill my child i would be sitting here thinking like some of you i would be in jail going for life and i can also understand the mom wanting her son to walk but two wrong dont make one right so some of you need to get a life and think with your mine and not black or white

@Shuklack, if you think that Trayvon wasn't someones baby then you are the troll. This kid was going to the store and was stalked by zimmerman. He was murdered in cold blood. If you call me a troll for saying Trayvon is someones baby child and innocent in all this, and you assume I am black for pointing on the obvious then you are a racist loser. A. I am white B. Trayvon is was someones baby and they loved him C. Zimmerman stalked and murdered him.

There is no defending Zimmerman, but I guess you losers will do anything to defend him.

I love reading these posts. If you go back and read them you may or may not, but you should, notice some trends.

People who support conviction of GZ:

He's a liar, he's racist, he's militant...etc. He was stalking, he was following, he got out out of his car. There's a lot of unsupported claims.

People who support acquittal of GZ:

Here are the facts as presented by the prosecution and the defense. Fact, <interject proveable timeline>, fact, here's this photo or this witness statement, recorded conversation, here's what the last person (not GZ) said about Trayvon's location, here's the medical report, police report, ME report, etc. According to the recorded call, GZ only followed TM for 8 seconds before 911 told him not to. According to testimony from DeeDee, TM had made it home beofre stating he was going back out, etc.

It's a funny thing:

• The people who seem to look at the facts, do their best to recreate an image of the scenario based on those facts, come to the conclusion of innocence. They base their arguments on and frequently reference the facts.
• The people who ignore the facts or simply choose not to review the facts and just charge in with their emotions lean toward guilt. They base their arguments on emotions and they fail to include or reference facts.

What are jurors instructed to base their verdict on? I'm a bit shakey here, but I've never heard a judge from my 2 jury duties and watching court shows say, "Go back there and decide based on your emotions, ignore all of the facts". It's usually more along these lines, "Decide which testimony to believe, whether or not that testimony is consistent with the evidence. Here are the applicable laws and the criteria for determining whether you believe the law has been broken."

I'm just saying, I haven't heard one person who supports conviction say, "Fact: GZ was was stalking TM through the neighborhood. Fact: Tm was trying to get into his dad's girlfriend's house and GZ pulled him away from the door before he could get in. Fact: TM was on the phone with 911 saying, 'Please help me! I'm being hunted down by a lunatic.' Fact: GZ had a sent some text messages saying he was going to hunt down the next black man he saw walking through his neighborhood....I'm just saying.

What are you poor people going to do when this case is over and done with?

If I had gotten whupped as he said he was and was bleeding like a stuck pig, I would have gone to the doctor ASAP-- not waited till the next day.

You are right about that, Susie!

MarkTaft---To answer your question--

What are you poor people going to do when this case is over and done with?

That's easy.

I am sit back and feel very good about having advocated for Trayvon.

ChrisS------You observed

The people who seem to look at the facts, do their best to recreate an image of the scenario based on those facts, come to the conclusion of innocence. They base their arguments on and frequently reference the facts.

That is exactly what I did------however, I came to the conclusion of guilt.

I would be happy to post you one of my examples of just one point (of many I have focused on) of the case if you wish me to do so.

no matter how many articles and followups there are, I still believe he is guilty of a crime, and the only way he gets set free, is the prosecutor dropping the ball and blowing the case, still doesnt mean hes not guilty.........Im sick of this topic......Lets get to the trial already......

IXLR8

If Travon had not tried to smash open Zimmermnas skull on the sidewalk NO shot would have been fired.

IXLR8

Your above statement is nonsense.

The police dispatcher told Zimmerman, "we do not need for you to do that."

Against the police dispatcher's order and chasing his own twisted need to be the jury, judge and executioner, this violent "man" pursued Trayon. Especially, after the dispatcher's order, Zimmerman did not have any legal authority or right to be in close proximity to young, Martin.

Send Zimmerman, a felon, to prison!

Yeah, and if all black people would stay away from "white" neighborhoods, then poor Zimmerman wouldn't have had to spend all his nights stalking black people armed with a gun.

Sure and if young black males hadn't been seen robbing homes in that housing complex in the months prior as the police reports state, maybe George wouldn't have been so interested in young black Trayvon.

People seem to forget that Trayvon is not as innocent as you'd like to believe. 4 months prior to the shooting the kid was caught with 12 pieces of women's jewelry and a screwdriver in his bag at school. He claimed a 'friend' gave it to him, yet refused to name the friend and never bothered to request the jewelry back. If it was his stuff, wouldn't he have asked for it to be returned? I know most normal people would have thrown a fit to have something of theirs, especially jewelry, kept from them.

sandrabrooks .......... you are need to check all boxes zimmerman has lied from day one.........crime junkie umm ok.......some of the comments are sad a kid was killed he had a can of tea a cell ph and skittles and if some moron was following me who was told not to I turn around and defend myself... zimmerman . decided he was the law so to his followers I hope the hell your child or children are safe like people who are like zimmerman........

@peanutison2

I see you're fond of using lots of periods in your posts. What can't you use a few where they actually belong, let's say, at the end of a sentence? Trust me, it does help differentiate between a comment written by an adult, rather than one written by a 9 year old.

TO: Steven B who wrote:

"And, if Zimmerman is found not guilty, he will still have to live in fear from those convinced of Zimmerman's guilt who would seek retribution."

Same as Casey Anthony who was acquitted by a jury and found not guilty of killing her daughter, but still has to live in fear from the same type of people you describe.

The difference is that Zimmerman admitted that he killed the boy, and the jury said Casey Anthony did NOT kill her daughter.

Why did my post 1.26 get collasped. Is it becausue too many Zimmerman bashers did not like that I posted published facts of the case. I have been a regular on the vine for 3 years and NEVER had that happen. Boy must be easy to collapse someone not popular. FYI - I have never bashed Trayvon, but believe in the so far evidence presented that they cannot convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder. VERY wrong to collapse my post!!! Newsvine please look in to it and explain.

The police dispatcher told Zimmerman, "we do not need for you to do that."

Against the police dispatcher's order and chasing his own twisted need to be the jury, judge and executioner, this violent "man" pursued Trayon. Especially, after the dispatcher's order, Zimmerman did not have any legal authority or right to be in close proximity to young, Martin.

Good post, 25Walker

Thoughtful comments and of course 25 Walker, most thorough, detailed published transcripts indicate Zimmerman responded back OK to:

The police dispatcher told Zimmerman, "we do not need for you to do that."

What should be your debate is whether or not he followed that, but it was a dispatcher, NOT THE POLICE.

sooo sandra, If a dispatcher told you to get out of a burning house I suppose you wouldn't as they don't have that authority?

25Walker

KDFman...If just one of those neighbors came out of their safe condos when they heard the screams for help none of this would have happened

KDFman,

Your post is absurd.

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, Trayvon would still be alive.

Because of his own foolish actions, Zimmerman is now facing a 2nd degree murder charge.

...in Criminal Court.

George is a vigilante that should be sentenced to prison.

Your response is "absurd", I was not talking about his staying in or out of the car. If one of those people who heard the calls for help but were afraid had come out, things would have been very different.

However they met up, with George somehow catching up to Trayvon or with Trayvon going back, neither had done anything illegal up to that point. It was when the punches started flying that the law was broken.

Who started that we do not know, but screaming about the rest is just garbage. And claiming to know either's intent is also garbage.

What started this controversey was the fact that the Sanford police accepted Zimmerman's story lock, stock and barrel. Had Zimmerman been held, charged with some degree of culpability and tried before a jury of his peers, we would not be discussing this case. The ramifications of allowing someone to shoot and kill another person, claim self defense, and walk based on a ridiculous law are unfathomable.

No matter what anyone says, Zimmerman saw Trayvon as a problem with zero evidence to support his claim. He then took it upon himself to follow this young man while armed. Zimmerman created the environment that led to Trayvon's death. Whether it is second degree or involuntary manslaughter, he should be charged with something. Frankly, unless Trayvon snatched Zimmerman out of his truck, I find it hard to believe that Zimmerman is not guilty of precipitating the altercation on some level. Remember, Zimmerman had the problem with trayvon from the beginning. He erroneously lumped him into the group that had been robbing houses in the area when he said-"They always get away." Who, is the the "They"?

I personally think that a combination of amateur exuberance coupled with incompentency and a dose of racial profiling contributed substantially to this disaster. Even if Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, Zimmerman created the scenario, and he was armed. Trayvon was not. I think that this is the crux of why it is difficult for some to see Zimmerman as completely innocent.

I am sickened by some of the posts on this vine defending Zimmerman. This guy had a gun and deliberately confronted an unarmed teenager and when it was all over the unarmed teenager was dead……….. Every parent out there feels the pain Trayvon’s parents feel at the senseless loss of their son. Zimmerman claims he shot Trayvon Martin in “self defense”….. Excuse me, Zimmerman not only instigated the entire incident he was also the one with the gun. I just can’t understand how anybody can still defend Zimmerman’s actions as justified.

Al-2739446 post 1.74

Your post is one of the most intelligent and well stated posts I have read about this tragedy, Thank You.

Stephen, ridiculous comparison. What I am saying is a neighborhood watch man is not mandated to follow a dispatcher suggestion; however record has it that Zimmerman said OK anyways. He does have to follow a police direction, which to my knowledge he did not fail to comply.

Sandra------You wrote--

What I am saying is a neighborhood watch man is not mandated to follow a dispatcher suggestion

True-----However, I think that Zimmerman considered it to be an order, because as you wrote--

however record has it that Zimmerman said OK anyways

.

I just think that Zimmerman did not really mean it when he said, "Okay."

.

When a classroom teacher tells a student not to whisper, that kid will probably say OK.......However, when the teacher turns her back and can't see that kid.............that kid often will go right on back to whispering.

.

There is a good chance that George Zimmerman behaved just like that kid, when Zimmerman said OKAY to the dispatcher.

Non thoughtful comments, are we in 1st grade here? Why don't you read my many posts which state that Zimmeman has been logged on as saying OK to the dispatcher. I go on to say in many posts that your argument should/could be whether or not he followed it. So what the didlly is your point? Something I have already stated over and over? However and never the less, I still prematurely believe they, (courts, Judge and public opinion) can not CONVICT of 2nd degree murder. This is my point period.

Sandra-----I like the word "didlly" when you asked me what my point was. My point was that I speculate that Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon.

I still prematurely believe they, (courts, Judge and public opinion) can not CONVICT of 2nd degree murder. This is my point period.

And, of course, I believe the opposite as follows--------

.

MY CONCLUSION is that Trayvon Marin WAS defending himself--------and then trying to pull himself away from GZ------Here are some points I wish to make-------

* That Trayvon's body was found SEVERAL FEET from where Zimmerman said he shot Trayvon for pounding GZ's head.

* Where Zimmerman said he was holding down Trayvon's body is where Trayvons body was found.(GZ was lying about saying that AFTER shooting Trayvon, he rolled Trayvon off and held Trayvon down for the purpose of keeping Trayvon from RESISTING him anymore.)

* This, as I see it, indicates that Trayvon was TRYING to PULL AWAY from George Zimmerman---probably was facing GZ----in order to back away and escape GZ's hold (GZ probably was holding the front of Travon's sweatshirt.

* If Trayvon, in fact, WAS trying to flee from the fight.....from Zimmerman (who himself pointed out a different location for the head pounding-----several FEET-----from where Trayvon's body was found ... ................ .... THEN Zimmerman is guilty.

:-)

Most of the grown men I know do not convict a person based on news reports (inclcuding those which have been doctored by the the media. mpa #1.10

i would convict him based on the no more than that totally unbelievable re-enactment. first his description of how trayvon was banging his head. was geoz just allowing trayvon to pick up his head and bounce it like a basketball without resistance. what was trayvon using to grasp his head since geoz's head was nearly clean shaven?

a supporter questioned the tale of how trayvon was covering his mouth and nose with his hands but screaming could be heard on the tape. another trayvon supporter pointed out that geoz's claim of yelling for the neighbor to come to help him could not be heard on tape. only continuous screams until the shot. he alleges when he repositioned himself his jacket moved and he says "he saw it...i felt he saw it, he looked at it". yeah, trayvon would have been able to see this gun that would have been hidden by his body since he was sitting on geoz. it was pointed out the claim that he felt trayvon reaching for his gun and he grasped trayvon's hand with his right armpit and was able to hold there as he reached for his gun using the same arm.

he should get an extended sentence for insulting authorities with such a dumb ass story.

George Zimmerman Reenacts Shooting of Treyvon Martin for Police at Crime Scene (Part 2)

.

Go to 5:58/ of 8:03 on the video-----where Zimmerman says

GZ--"After I shot him, he like sat up....

Investigator--"You're still in this position here basically...you bring(being?) him out here...You shot him so he's in the grass

GZ--"Yes, sir. He was on top of me like this and I shot him. And I didn't think I hit him 'cause he sat up and said ah.oh 'You got me. You got it. You got me' something like that. So I thought he was saying, I know you have a gun now, I heard it, I'm giving up. So I don't know if I pushed him off me or he fell off me. Either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart and I said ''don't move'

Investigator--"Kinda flipped him over?

GZ--"I don't remember how I got on top of him-I'm sorry-

Investigator--"That's fine

GZ--"But I got on his back and I moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head, I thought he had something in his hands and so I ...just...moved his hands apart

Interviewer--"but you had him face down then?

GZ--"Yes...face down and I was on his back and then someone came with a flashlight........

.******************************************************************************************************

All of you can use this as you please to come to your own conclusions.

he should get an extended sentence for insulting authorities with such a dumb ass story.

I have been rethinking the reenactment video, the "non emergency" phone call, and GZ's stories...

I don't believe GZ's vehicle MOVED from in front of the clubhouse while he was still on call with the police.

We could hear GZ open his door when he starts following Trayvon (we hear the door chimes) and GZ confirms that in his interview with police here:

http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/statements/audio_interview_0229_3.mp3

If GZ got back into his vehicle, we would have been able to hear the door chimes again, and I don't hear them.

You can also hear GZ tapping on something at one point, in the tape, I think he tells the cops he is trying to get his flashlight to work.

If GZ started his car up to follow Trayvon, wouldn't we HEAR it on the phone call?? It picked up the slightest sounds...but not the engine being started?

I speculate that GZ followed Trayvon on foot, slowed down when instructed (we don't need you to do that), but never returned to vehicle during that call. After he hung up, he moved his car up to where it ended up, got out walked up to the "T" and encountered Trayvon.

His whole story about "going passed the T to look for street sign or number" just doesn't line up.

If GZ started his car up to follow Trayvon, wouldn't we HEAR it on the phone call?? It picked up the slightest sounds...but not the engine being started?

Excellent point, Jo-An!

I speculate that GZ followed Trayvon on foot, slowed down when instructed (we don't need you to do that), but never returned to vehicle during that call. After he hung up, he moved his car up to where it ended up, got out walked up to the "T" and encountered Trayvon.

His whole story about "going passed the T to look for street sign or number" just doesn't line up.

I agree with you.

The other thing is, when was GZ prowling around the clubhouse and pool area? What time will that be?

Hopefully they can isolate the frame that shows a person in red, with facial hair...and get a time.

Technology will rip up GZ's claims...

The people should be demanding a trial now, not later. Why does it take so long for a murder to go to trial. His dad has contacts in the courts and judicial system and is delaying this trial for as long as he can. This way, people will forget what they have said, heard and done on that night, and Zimmerman will walk free.

Put this pos on trial today and convict him of murder in the fist degree. Trayvon Martin was standing his ground when Zimmerman began to stalk and hunt him down like an animal.

Burn in Hell Zimmerman. I also believe that all the cases Zimmerman's dad handled should be looked into as well. If you have a racist and bigoted son like Zimmerman, it didn't fall to far from the bigoted and racist dad.

RIP Trayvon

Are you tired of the lynch mob mentality?

Mail your check today for $5 / $10 / $25 / $50 / $100 or more to the:

yes, please do. send all you can. the martins deserve every last penny (dollar) they can get from the civil suit they'll be filing. this imbecile chased down their son, was too simple and immature, at 30 years old, to inform this young man why and ended up killing this unarmed kid.

** In this great country a man should be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law **

everyone should be presumed innocent in a court of law. the public is not restricted from considering incriminating evidence that may not be admissible in court. banning evidence often ties the jury's hands and may result in the jury coming to a wrong conclusion.

from all the information that has been made public, judging the story from geoz's own mouth and especially from the re-enactment footage, it's not hard to conclude he's lying his ass off.

of course, many of you don't give a rip because he killed a young black teen that you perceive as just one less black hood rat in the world.

George Zimmerman leaves Seminole County Jail after posting bond on July 6.

Is anyone taking odds?

RIP Trayvon

Everyone makes judgements. If you weren't interested you wouldn't have read this article or the comments.

So: My judgement is Guilty. Zimmerman stalked, shot and killed unarmed
Trayvon Martin. He should consider himself lucky to only be charged with second degree murder since it appears to be a racially inspired premeditated murder.

If Zimmerman was black and Martin white you can be sure he'd have been arrested, jailed and brought to trial in a hurry. But then the bigots wouldn't have had a place to vent.

Rick -

If you are ever called for jury duty, plead the insanity defense - PLEASE.

mpa

If Rick is called for "jury duty"....why would he plead anything?

* keep the "insanity defense" in you back pocket if you ever need it....and use post #2.2 as proof!

Everyone makes judgements. If you weren't interested you wouldn't have read this article or the comments.

Correct, Rick911527

This IS a discussion forum, XD

Oh I see that Zimmerman is still white for the hype of the story although he looks more Hispanic and is in fact half Hispanic! Barack Obama however is just as much white as Zimmerman yet he is our first black President! 1/2 Hispanic + 1/2 White who does something like kill someone is considered a white man yet 1/2 African American + Half White who becomes President is considered a black man! If you want to see something racially motivated take a look at how the media feeds us BS like that!

I don't need...Nor does ANY rational thinking person need, a jury to tell them what is right in front of their face..The botton line is THIS: Had that butt-hole, zimmerman, listened to the 911 dispatcher and NOT followed that young man..the young man would be alive today..PERIOD! He belongs in JAIL!!!!!

Rick-911527

Zimmerman wasn't arrested for the following reason:

Florida Statute 776.032 expressly prohibits police from arresting someone who had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. Police may investigate, the statute says, but the agency may not arrest the person" without probable cause.

It's about the law, not race.

Kran Clay, what part of martin going after zimmerman and beating on him dont you understand? or did this part elude your memory, what i see if this was the other way around where a boo shot a white boy, no media, no nothing life goes on, zimmerman will get off, no doubt about it.

Carmen

A very correct analysis. But as you can see by the posts, no one looks at the law.

If you want to see something racially motivated take a look at how the media feeds us BS like that!

It's all smoke and mirrors designed to take the herd's attention away from the real issue: apparent high-level corruption--- evidenced when the DA interfered with the initial investigation; ... no one in the media asked the question of why the DA came down on a Sunday night to overturn the lead investigator's recommendation of an arrest.

Who called the DA to perform this "favor" and why? I don't think it was standard operating procedure...

From that point on, the game was rigged...

@Carmen - Take the blinders off dear. There was more than enough probable cause to make an arrest here. The facts are clear that an unarmed man is dead in the dark of night. There were no credible witness who saw what happened however there were 911 tapes that clearly indicate Zimmerman pursued this young man without cause. Zimmerman should have been arrested and held until a thorough investigation was completed. Even after head investigators saw probable cause to arrest Zimmerman, he remained free. The law was not there to protect the rights of Trayvon Martin. This is why this story became national and many are loosing their jobs. This young man's family will sue and they will receive millions because of the way this "murder" was handled.

So, Rick, when O.J. Killed his ex-wife and boyfriend, then got off because the glove didn't fit, were there riots in the street?

O.J. Spent the next five years playing golf without a care in the world, til they got him on some trumped up kidnapping charge.

Everyone except those in complete denial knows that O.J. did it, but were willing to let justice run it's course. Our system isn't perfect, and for every O.J. there are hundreds that get convicted that are actually innocent.

We haven't even had a trial yet and there are people that would just as soon kill Zimmerman on sight.

Unfortunately for everyone involved, I just don't see how this trial can end well.

XD, We judge and comment because the Constitution allows us free speech, and Newsvine does also. Are you really asking such a silly question on a CHAT FORUM???

Carmen, the reason that Zimmerman is pushing so hard to make sure that people believe that Trayvon struck him first is so he has a defense. However there is one tidbit that will hurt him, and that is the fact that he initiated the altercation. Please read ALL of statute 776, not just the parts you want to read. Zimmerman inserted himself into the altercation, and definitely did not exhaust all avenues of retreat prior to using deadly force. The injuries were superficial at best, and the timeline is so short, that the idea of the struggle that George claims is highly unlikely. This does not at all address the inconsistencies in his stories.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

All of you speaking of "the law", here is the law! If you have one drop of black blood, you are considered black. If your father is white and your mother is other than black, you are considered the race of your father. White men wrote THE LAW, so don't blame Obama and Martin, they are just following THE LAW!!!

american vet - again. assumption. the dead guy cannot defend himself against the guy that is alive who says that the dead guy attacked him first.

dead men tell no tales, while the living can lie all they want. let's see what the evidence shows.

American vet:: Have you read the medical report from the following day? He chose not to go to the doctor after the incident, and he went to the doctor to get a note saying that he was ill and couldn't work. The report on his nose says LIKELY broken, and the description of the two SMALL wounds to the back of his head are not indicitive of his having his head pounded on the pavement. Sounds more like he hit his head on the headboard of the bed.

Who know's what could happen in this trial Zimmerman could get thrown under the bus or a verdict on Trayvon's side they may not like and it could lead to another Rodney King/LA riot with angry black guys on the street looking to club any white or non black they can reach.

Susie----You wrote--

The report on his nose says LIKELY broken, and the description of the two SMALL wounds to the back of his head are not indicitive of his having his head pounded on the pavement. Sounds more like he hit his head on the headboard of the bed.

I also have questions about Zimmerman's injuries.

MoonWolf wrote this comment about GZ's-----

You mean the "two lacerations at the back of Zimmerman's head – one 2 centimeters, and the other a half-centimeter" (quoted from medical report on MSN) - the ones that are NOT consistent with his head being bashed into the sidewalk? Those injuries?

.

Icurhoods thought the injuries were cause during the scuffle-----

I do believe it was at that moment georgie had his gun ready. He grabbed Trays hoodie jacket to detain him.

"Why wouldn't he? He was a burgulary suspect and possibly armed!

"Trayvon at that point started swinging and yelling "GET OFF ME!" (Per DEE DEE) he was swinging much like Georgie describes in the re enactment only Georgie ascribes it to himself.

"At this point it is a scuffle, Zimmerman is pushed against that tree right behind him in the video with the low hanging branches, still holding on to Tray but cutting his head on the dry tree branches. Tray is still swinging, screaming for help, that is why the location moves down a few houses. Tray is trying to get away. Zmmerman because he looses his cool, shoots him perhaps while still standing.

The evidence speaks for itself, Zimmermans injuries will not be questioned, they will be testified to by EMT and the police, the prosecutor is not going to impeach the testimony of her own witnesses, nor will she question their reports. Thinking something and proving it in court are two different things, the judge is not going to let her say "I think this is what happened, or it could have have happened this way", whatever allegations she makes she is going to have to prove with admissible evidence. The evidence of GZ being attacked will not be questioned, he is the one with injuries consistent with being attacked, and since the only other person there was Martin, what conclusion do you think a reasonable jury is going to come up with. Once GZ was attacked by Martin he had every right to defend himself, and if it ended in Martins death then so be it.

Bo

No, unarmed means nothing. His hands are deadly weapons.

jajajajajajaja. Good one

Unless this kid was a black belt or something (no evidence of anything like that) he was NOT a threat to a grown man with a gun. Zimmerman and his wife have both proved that they're liars. THAT destroys his credibility and he needed to remain in jail. Someday, he's going to get his. The longer he's out there, the more chance that his karma will come in a worse form.

The kid was armed with his fists and managed to knock Zimmerman on the sidewalk. To bad he wasn't armed with his mouth, listen to this. Hi, my dad is visiting here, can u help me find the condo? Im lost. or how about this, since he had a cell phone, Dad Im lost can u tell me how to get back to the condo?

This kid wasnt an angel and I will just bet he was extremely confrontation and threatening, I will bet he knocked Zimmerman down and attacked him. Let's see what happens in the "fair" trial

laura

Why does the mention of hands make you only think of black people as if most people regardless of race don't have them?

Ok self defence, I hope his cop friends are coming up with a gun that was found in the hands of Trevon Martin, or I will never declare Zimm not guilty!--it is that simple, if he is not convicted, he must be "covered" by "police""status"--thus watch out for mysterious weapon will be found somewhere near the scene, you wait and see- it happens every day if the police is involved --that is in the USA!

Jag, When someone is on top of you using his "bare hands" to bash your head on a sidewalk they ARE deadly weapons as you assume the SOB is trying to kill you with them!

100% justifiable!

jag24659....While I agree that he is probably guilty of at least manslaughter, he does have the right to be out on bail during trial. So long as he is not a risk to the community and there is no reason to believe he is at this point, and there is no flight risk, which there probably is not now, he has a right to be released on bail. Because of the deceit about assets bail was set higher, that is reasonable. He does have rights, even if he did not give those rights to Martin, and we need to follow the law as it is, not the way we sometimes wish it was.

And as GZ stated in the reenactment with the police the next day, he says that TM yelled at him

"You got a problem"

At which point GZ says he reached into his pocket for his phone, which is when TM punched him in the nose.

Maybe TM thought GZ was going for a weapon, and struck first.

Remember a co-worker had filed a complaint against GZ for harassment.....most of which was based on the co-workers ethnicity. It would be entirely reasonable to believe that GZ took the same attitude with TM.

BO If someone had you on the ground pounding your head against the sidewalk and you had a gun you wouldn't shoot them? Just think you might be dead

The most brutal murder I ever witnessed was by a man using only his fists.I admired his restraint, GZ used deadly force when he was left with no other option.

@patrick
Trayvons school was about 40% Hispanic and there were many Hispanic gangs in Miami. Maybe Trayvon had a problem with Hispanic people.

Maybe Trayvon had a problem with Hispanic people.

Pure speculation on your part, bobc.

I think Trayvon was very concerned that he was being followed aggressively by George for no reason at all.

Perhaps Trayvon had seen the Neighbor Watch signs posted around the gated community. He might have thought they had been posted because the community had been experiencing muggings.

Carmen, you didn't answer my question. Are your hands also deadly weapons? So, according to your logic, Zimmerman was armed with TWO deadly weapons...his gun and his hands? So was Trayvonn supposed to simply use his hands to open his shirt and point to the place Zimmerman should shoot him?

OMG, now Travon was a blackbelt? Was he a secret ninja and the hoodie worn just to hide his shell? Larua wants to chop black peoples hands? Travons hand were only deadly in the shower as he is an innocent child. Laura, way out there an I also vote for the stupid comment of the year.

I do want some of what you are smoking......

YAGTC, thank you for calling out my " pure speculation" Then following it up with your own pure speculation.

Btw, I already knew what I said was speculation, hence the reason I included the word "maybe"

Seven....I was being sarcastic. Of course I don't believe in cutting off black people's hands! I was simply trying to show the absurdity of people who are claiming that Trayvonn's hands were deady weapons. The only weapons Trayvonn had on him were Skittles and an ice tea.

If I were being stalked like Trayvonn was, I would hope that I could get in a few blows before I was shot.

Bad blood on both sides. The trial of the century with the media.

Bobc-- :)

bob c-3660180

YAGTC, thank you for calling out my " pure speculation" Then following it up with your own pure speculation.

Btw, I already knew what I said was speculation, hence the reason I included the word "maybe"

Yes, and I used "I think" You are correct ......

:)

:)

Just curious. How many of you are unemployed and on welfare?

Just curious. How many of you are unemployed and on welfare?

Are you?

Shouldn't you be at work this time of day?

Or are you paid to post comments on this site?

Actually, you all have thoughtful comments, I'm the boss. And I'm getting rich on the backs of my low paid employees. But you seem to hold the record on comments so I know darn well you're a welfare recipient. You should feel proud.

MarkTaft-----You told be I was

you're a welfare recipient

Well, that's nice to know. One learns something every day!

Mark Taft,

And I'm getting rich on the backs of my low paid employees.

Typical...

Mark Taft,

And I'm getting rich on the backs of my low paid employees....

....and convincing them to blame the liberals for the messed up economy.

Patrick, I agree with what you wrote---

And as GZ stated in the reenactment with the police the next day, he says that TM yelled at him

"You got a problem"

At which point GZ says he reached into his pocket for his phone, which is when TM punched him in the nose.

Maybe TM thought GZ was going for a weapon, and struck first.

There is plenty of other news out there to read. You just choose not to.

Doesn't matter anyways. You'll just get in a political attack no matter the topic.

I'll bet Steven was a big bush supporter.

@Bucki- I'm sure if you try hard enough you can come up with a more intelligent comment than the one you just made. What you are saying is because Trayvon was in your eyes a 'hood rat' he deserved to die at the hand of an over zealous lying coward. The truth is Martin had no criminal record. I wonder if the same can be said of you or yours.

Steven:: And your savior, George W. Bush (aka Shrub) was perfect? He didn't walk on water-- and he fell while riding a bike.

Rick-911527

no I am betting he is an Obama supporter as he say it will be a fair trial. THere is to much news media influence now to make a fair trial come about.

Rick-911527

no I am betting he is an Obama supporter as he say it will be a fair trial. THere is to much news media influence now to make a fair trial come about.

Let's forget the national political scene on this comment thread.

With unrelated side issues, I think there are posters whose strategy is to sidetrack people to keep them momentarily from sharing their insightful comments.

Susie

Your savior Barak Obama (King Bama the Last) couldnt figure out how to ride a bike.

lorakittle

Peculiar to Florida SYG law there's something called an SYG hearing wherein the judge can grant immunity from prosecution (no trial).

O'Mara has made it clear that at this time t-hey are working on the affirmative defense of self-defense.

That's probably what the prosecution is hoping. Most overcharge in the hope of getting a conviction via plea deals, especially those with potential problems if they go to trial.

Carmen

Yes, I know their is a SYG hearing. Somehow, with his track record of being untruthful with the court. I don't see the judge taking his word for it. Besides that Mr. Martin was being chased by Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin had no idea who Mr. Zimmerman was. Mr. Martin was also exercising his right to SYG. Yes, hands can be a deadly weapon. Mr. Zimmerman had a gun, did not identify himself as a neighborhood watch person. Mr. Zimmerman continued his chase of Mr. Martin despite being told by the 911 operator "We don't need you to do that." To which Mr. Zimmerman replied "okay". and yet continued with his pursuit of Mr. Martin. What wood you do Carmen? If you were being chased by some random guy, at night, and this person has not identified himself as a neighborhood watch? Would you start running to get away? Would you SYG? Mr. Zimmerman was the aggressor, he knew he had a gun, he was in no danger whatsoever at the hands of Mr. Martin. Mr. Martin however was the only one with the right to use SYG. He was being pursued by Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin was the one who was in fear of his life. But, like I said I'll wait until the trial if there is one.

Lorakittle,
There isn't one piece of evidence released so far that proves George continued his pursuit after being asked to stop.

There isn't one piece of evidence released so far that proves George continued his pursuit after being asked to stop.

And if you're a racist playing the black card, who needs evidence.

Lorakittle

I won't just be Zimmerman's word.

A witness saw Zimmerman on the ground with Martin on top.

The girlfriend claims Martin told her GZ was close and tired. She asked to explain how he knew and he did. That means Martin was watching GZ at some point. But shortly thereafter she hears Martin ask GZ a question.

GZ was an obese 28 year old you can hear breathing hard within seconds of disembarking his car. The girlfriend claims Martin said GZ was tired.

So how does a tired obese 28 year old chase down and catch a healthy 17 year old athlete who's watching him?

Bob c - are you retarded? It's a known fact that he continued to pursue TM after he was advised not to. Did you listen to the tape? Did you hear GZ utter the word "coon" as well? Or maybe we are just going to ignore that part. Let's not forgot GZ ASSUMED that TM was a criminal which provoked his actions. ALSO, after he says TM is running, his car door begins to beep because he opened it, and he also starts breathing hard... because he is in pursuit...

Medina- you're incorrectly assuming that there aren't any white people wanting to see Zimmerman held accountable. Any parent (no matter what color) who gives a crap about their kids wants to see him in jail for murder. My teens (who are white) wear hoodies... and I will be damned if I'd even let someone who killed my kid have a chance to get to court.

Carmen- it's called adrenaline from fear of being hunted by an unknown male adult!

Sdot,2004, you are obviously the retarded one. I have read the transcript about 50 times and listened to it about 15 times. Yes, George gets out of his truck, runs for about 20 seconds AND THEN IS TOLD "you don't need to that(follow)" at which point he says"ok", and stops running. He talks with the dispatcher for another 1:40, where there is no indication that he continued to follow or look. We don't know for sure what he was doing for that 1:40, there definitely isn't proof he was looking or following while he finished his call. Sdot2004, you should do a better job listening, that way you wouldn't seem like such a moron

There isn't one piece of evidence released so far that proves George continued his pursuit after being asked to stop.

In my mind there is, GZ continued talking to the dispatcher for one to two minutes after he indicated with an OKAY to the dispatcher that he would stop following Trayvon--- during which time he could have been back to ( or very near to ) his silver vehicle which was parked a little past the mail boxes.

you all have thoughtful comments,

In my mind there is, GZ continued talking to the dispatcher for one to two minutes after he indicated with an OKAY to the dispatcher that he would stop following Trayvon--- during which time he could have been back to ( or very near to ) his silver vehicle which was parked a little past the mail boxes.

That doesn't prove that Zimmerman continued to pursue. He certainly wasn't running for any part of that 1:40. Plus, during that 1:40 Zimmerman states that he has no idea where Trayvon is.

The first 911 call was made 1:20 after Zimmerman hung up. It doesn't give an overweight Zimmerman much time to locate and catch up to a more athletic youth. Will you admit it's at least possible that Trayvon went back to confront Zimmerman, as Zimmerman claims?

I'll gladly admit that it may have happened exactly as you described it. But since there is no proof, it introduces reasonable doubt.

BobC

where there is no indication that he continued to follow or look

Must not have listened to the part where George tells dispatch: "Tell the police to give me a call and I'll tell them where I'm at..." instead of following dispatch's advice of meeting the police at the mailboxes. It's certainly indicative of George, who has an ax to grind because 'they always get away', continuing the pursuit.

Don,
So since George decided to try an make it easy for the police to find him, that PROVES he continued to follow Trayvon? That is not proof, that's you speculating what George meant when he told the police to call him when they got there.

bob c:: And where is the proof that GZ did cease trailing Trayvon after he said "OK"? And you had the gall to tell Don that something wasn't proof, that he was speculating. Seeme to me that it is the pot calling the kettle black. You haven't given proof and you are speculating.

The difference is that the lynch mob sees the only possibility as being that Zimmerman kept on "stalking" (buzz word!), and that Zimmerman had already "profiled" (buzz word #2!!) where there is absolutely evidence to support either claim. Yet with all the testimony and facts that are in, all indications are that it happened exactly as Zimmerman said it happened, and those are being painted as speculation, fabrications and lies.

The first 911 call was made 1:20 after Zimmerman hung up. It doesn't give an overweight Zimmerman much time to locate and catch up to a more athletic youth. Will you admit it's at least possible that Trayvon went back to confront Zimmerman, as Zimmerman claims?

I'll gladly admit that it may have happened exactly as you described it. But since there is no proof, it introduces reasonable doubt.

Here, we are both speculating.

(I was just pointing out that Zimmerman had that 1 or 2 minutes on the phone----after saying okay---- to make quite a bit of progress back to his vehicle.)

Anyone can speculate. (And sometimes new evidence turns up to prove some guesses.)

(I was just pointing out that Zimmerman had that 1 or 2 minutes on the phone----after saying okay---- to make quite a bit of progress back to his vehicle.)

GZ told the police he was walking back to his vehicle while telling them where to meet him. That gave him 84 seconds to be BACK to his vehicle, before he hang up from police.

It's clear by GZ's own words, when he tells dispatcher to have them call him when they arrive, that GZ planned to KEEP ON LOOKING!

http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/statements/audio_interview_0229_3.mp3

Jo-An,

That means that Martin also had 84 seconds to get away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman is only running for ~20 seconds on his police call (as evidenced by the heavy breathing). There is 84 seconds where Zimmerman is, at most, walking around looking for Trayvon. Zimmerman even states that he has lost sight of Trayvon (remember, that was before the shooting and media attention so Zimmerman had no reason to lie).

The first 911 calls are placed 80 seconds after Zimmerman hangs up the phone. How does Zimmerman locate, catch up to, and initiate a conflict with Trayvon in under 80 seconds when Trayvon had an 84 second head start?

That means that Martin also had 84 seconds to get away from Zimmerman

Scubasteve,

That actually means Zimmerman had 84 seconds to make good progress back to his car.

Scubasteve58001,

You are correct, but lets remember GZ was "pursuing" Trayvon, not the other way around.

GZ "thought" he was following a burglar. Trayvon had no clue why he was being followed.

GZ wasn't letting this one "get away". Trayvon had no duty to run on home.

Zimmerman is only running for ~20 seconds on his police call (as evidenced by the heavy breathing).

Yes, and that was earlier. GZ told the police he followed...er...I mean, went in the same direction, as Trayvon, after he was told not to....only to get an address, and then he returned to his car, so he should have been back IN HIS CAR by the time the police got there...but instead he continued to actively look for Trayvon, contrary to his statements to the police.

You All/JoAn,

You both missed my point. Even if Zimmerman were walking toward the direction that Trayvon ran in, how did Zimmerman catch him?

If Trayvon had a 5 foot head start, I doubt Zimmerman could have caught him. But somehow, despite an 84-second head start and not knowing where Trayvon was, Zimmerman managed to find and catch up to Trayvon in under 80 seconds. How does that happen unless Trayvon came back to confront Zimmerman? Which has been Zimmerman's claim all along.

You are assuming a "chase" was happening...

Even if Zimmerman were walking toward the direction that Trayvon ran in, how did Zimmerman catch him?

I don't think Trayvon knew he was being chased! Therefore he was at a disadvantage.

Trayvon ran TWICE to evade GZ, why would he "return"?

I "believe" GZ continued to track down Trayvon, found him, went to pull out his gun, I mean phone, and spooked Trayvon. I "believe" GZ tried to detain Trayvon, and Trayvon tried to get away, at that point.

GZ says the fight started up near the T, yet Trayvons body was found 30 closer to his home, why? Trying to get away?

How does that happen unless Trayvon came back to confront Zimmerman? Which has been Zimmerman's claim all along.

GZ has made several "claims"...and there are several inconsistencies...

Jo-An,

If Trayvon didn't think he was being chased, why did he take off running? And even if Trayvon was only walking towards his home after he lost Zimmerman, it doesn't explain how Zimmerman found and caught him in such a short time frame.

And what was the 2nd time that Trayvon ran from Zimmerman? As far as I can tell, Trayvon took off running during Zimmerman's police call, Zimmerman briefly pursued until he lost sight of him, and never encountered him again until the fight took place.

And despite any other changes to the story, Zimmerman has always maintained that Trayvon confronted him.

Why was Trayvon's body found 30 feet from the location George pointed out to investigators as being where he shot Trayvon because his head was being pounded?

30 feet isn't really that much of an inconsistency, it is less than 5 body lengths. People's memories are not like video cameras. The details recalled aren't always perfectly accurate and one patch of grass looks the same as another.

It's a known fact that he continued to pursue TM after he was advised not to.

Well if its a known fact Im sure you have some proof of this known fact. The only known fact is that GZ had injuries consistent with being attacked, and after being attacked GZ killed the perpetrator of that attack.

Scorpio

What evidence?

1. The witness who opened the door and gave a written state that night colloberates that Zimmerman was on his back trying to get away screaming for help while Martin was on top straddling him.

2. The girlfriend who provided an audio recorded statement to law enforcement who claims Trayvon told her Zimmerman was close and tired. He even explained how he knew GZ was tired. The next thing she heard was Trayvon ask the first question.

3. All the evidence supporting Zimmerman's injuries.

That's a start

All this could have been avoided when they found the stolen jewlery in the kids locker. He could have been safe and sound in juvenile hall. This kid was no innocent angel.

Wellajusted,how do you know Trevon was "CASING" houses?!Were you holding that MURDERERS hand at the time?! All you people and all you IDIOT SUCKERS who gave that MURDERER money and are on his side is because TREVON WAS BLACK!! That LOW LIFE IDIOT was determined to show DADDY that he is TOUGH!!

@ Carmen

That so called witness is recanting his story & is saying he is not sure who was on who.

@ Anna53

the so called stolen jewlery was found in his backpack & was not trayvon's ~ he was never charged anything for it. you're right he was no angel but what teenager is ~ I know I wasn't I tried pot, I drank, smoked, stayed out late, did stupid things you know cause when you are with your friends you want to seem cool & no I was never suspened but I hated school & left it early. I was also a good kid that never talked back to my parents, stole from them, did my chores, cut the grass & shovel snow so my dad didn't have to. Trayvon's family did alot of things ~ sking, horseback riding, etc. his parents have good jobs & you can tell they loved their son ~ in other words you can tell by the pictures that were taken 9 days before he died that Trayvon looked like a good kid not a thug. Trayvon had NO criminal background but the person you are supporting George Zimmerman (who for sure is NO ANGEL) who has parents that worked/works in the judicial system has a criminal record & a violent one at that. In other words George seems to be a grown up bully. When I look at pictures or video of George, you can see crazy in his eyes. I would love to see info from when George was a teenager and see how innocent he was back then cause in his older yrs ~ he is the one that seems to be the thug.

@ well adjusted

How do you know what kind of parents Trayvon's parents are? He was sent to his father's house because he was suspended from school & he begged his father to let him go to the store that night to get something for himself & his dad's girlfriends son. Maybe if George's parents didn't always bail him out of things & let him do time for his actions maybe Trayvon would still be at home with his mother. It makes me sick how all you people are blaming Trayvon (the only victim) for what happened to him that night or judging him because of where he came from so because others act that way cause that where they came from then Trayvon is automatically a bad kid. Seriously ~ just because George came from where he does not make him innocent. & all that gold teeth, tattoo @!$%# is not a reason for this young man to get shot. What kind of teenager were you? ~ you never ever did anything back in your teenage yrs that were the in things to do, or were you one of those perfect teenagers like Carmen & Anna. Must really be hard being so perfect in a imperfect world. Get off your high horses & stop judging people.

And for all you people that say George is innocent If he was so concerned & fearful about Trayvon WHY did he follow him & yes he did follow him ~ he may of said ok to the dispatcher after they told him we don't need you to do that but words & actions are two different things, he pursued Trayvon cause he was going to be the hero & not let this @$$hole get away & if Trayvon did hit him GOOD for him cause he was the one in fear for his life ~ What they should of done was check the butt of the gun. George had enough time before the police got there to take the butt of his gun & smack himself in the nose with it. One thing is George is no dummy ~ he knows how to work the system... Call 911 to cover his tracks make it sound as if Trayvon was up to no good, pursue Trayvon, get attitude with Trayvon (but tell police Trayvon was the one with the attitude), wrestle with Trayvon, shoot Trayvon, smack self with gun in nose & claim self defense. See I can write anything I want about George just like all you idiots write things about Trayvon... If you're all so supportive of George let him come live with you or in your neighborhood.

R.I.P. Trayvon ~ May your family get the justice they deserve for you......

Well said hrlynana

If he was so concerned & fearful about Trayvon WHY did he follow him & yes he did follow him ~ he may of said ok to the dispatcher after they told him we don't need you to do that but words & actions are two different things, he pursued Trayvon cause he was going to be the hero

Good point, hrlynana.

Charles------

Why did George Zimmerman immediately get out of his car when he lost sight of Trayvon because, as he said, Trayvon was running.

Earlier on the dispatcher call George expressed his concern that Trayvon had reached into his waistband and also that Trayvon looked like "he was up to no good". Then why would George follow him?

By the way, I think George had NO authority to act like a policeman and run after Trayvon as he did.

Charles:: You know a thug when you see one? It takes one to know one.

lol- maybe trying to portray the all american boy look? Getting away from the skinhead look.

Yes, Stephen! :)

Quinn

Zimmerman isn't a proven murder. Many people caught up in the justice system, also need help. Suffering isn't a competition.

That is true. Many people are in jail or awaiting trial who are innocent and do deserve public support. George Zimmerman is not one of them. The BEST thing you could say about him is that he used excessive force and poor judgment in response to a physical assault. That makes supporting him with money for his defense morally ambiguous. Giving money to a cancer research charity is not morally ambiguous.

The only thing correct about your post is the first line

You are correct, George is not sitting in jail right now.

Quinn

Though every killing is a homicide, not every homicide is a murder or a crime.

Thank you Quinn128. Who donates to a defense case? This is the first time I have ever heard of this happening. This is suppose to be a 'bad' economy. Well, someone has a lot of money out their to the tune of 200K+ (as of Fri 7/6/2012). What a waste of $$$. I suppose he bought his fancy suits with the donations to make himself look important. I hope the jury doesn't screw this case up like Casey Anthony. We still don't know what happened to Cayley, may she rest in peace.

NewsJnky

I hope the jury doesn't screw this case up like Casey Anthony. We still don't know what happened to Cayley, may she rest in peace.

If you still don't know what happened to Cayley, how did the jury screw it up? They should have convicted Casey on reasonable suspicion, perhaps? Sort of like what Zimmerman was acting on when this whole incident occurred? There would have been no reason to call 911 if he was simply "hunting" Trayvon.

Quinn128

The BEST thing you could say about him is that he used excessive force and poor judgment in response to a physical assault.

No such thing as excessive force in response to a physical assault. If someone is under attack they should be able to respond by whatever means they have available.

Impudent:: And what did the medical report say about Zimmerman's injuries to his nose and the back of his head? He did go to the doctor the next day to get an excuse for missing work.

Susie------------

Icurhoods thought the injuries were caused during the scuffle-----

.

I do believe it was at that moment georgie had his gun ready. He grabbed Trays hoodie jacket to detain him.

"Why wouldn't he? He was a burgulary suspect and possibly armed!

"Trayvon at that point started swinging and yelling "GET OFF ME!" (Per DEE DEE) he was swinging much like Georgie describes in the re enactment only Georgie ascribes it to himself.

"At this point it is a scuffle, Zimmerman is pushed against that tree right behind him in the video with the low hanging branches, still holding on to Tray but cutting his head on the dry tree branches. Tray is still swinging, screaming for help, that is why the location moves down a few houses. Tray is trying to get away. Zmmerman because he looses his cool, shoots him perhaps while still standing.

Elizabeth

So now you would call the girlfriend a liar because what she claims doesn't suit you?

And had Zimmerman went after Martin with gun in hand then he wouldn't have sustained injuries.

Dang Carmen, didn't you know girlfriends are liars? lol.

Carmen - I usually don't make direct comments to posts, but is it too hot out there for ya? U R not making sense. R U saying Zimmie wouldn't have been harmed even though he did have a gun? I don't think Trayvon knew he had a gun. He only knew someone was following him for no apparent reason.

Carmen, do you think it is not the slightest bit possible that Zimmrman tried to physically detain Martin, and that's what started the altercation? I keep hearing you say over and over that Martin attacked Zimmerman, although there is no evidence to support that claim, only the killers word. You are assuming that Zimmerman is telling the truth. He has already attempted to deceive the court. He is known to have a hot temper. He has a history of violence. And I was more injured replacing the hose on my washing machine that Zimmerman after this horrible beating that he allegedly took. The fact is that he cannot have pursued Martin, because that would remove SYG as his defense altogether. No wonder he's working so hard for that one.

It has been proven that he continued to follow Martin after he was told not to. The 9-1-1 tape's audio proves this fact.

If anything the 911 tape proves he didn't continue to follow. He was breathing heavily, was asked if he was following and replied in the affirmative. The dispatcher said, we don't need you to do that, he says ok, and the heavy breathing stops. Also he stated he had lost sight of Trayvon at that point. There is nothing in that tape that 'proves' he didn't do what he claimed which was start walking back to his vehicle.

There is nothing in that tape that 'proves' he didn't do what he claimed which was start walking back to his vehicle.

His OWN words to the police prove he kept on following...er...I mean going in the "same direction".

He also said he started to walk back to his car a full 84 seconds before he hung up with the dispatcher....why didn't he get back there? THIRTY feet or so?

http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/statements/audio_interview_0229_3.mp3

do you think it is not the slightest bit possible that Zimmrman tried to physically detain Martin,

It is very possible!

Hey chris that must have been one mean hose..........taught i would inject a little humor......

Jo-An, was that statement on the 911 tape? No. My statement stands as accurate, Elizabeth claimed the 911 tape proved he didn't do what he was told to do, it doesn't prove anything of the sort. If subsequent statements made by him prove that fine, but the 911 transcript doesn't. Maybe he just dallied a little, hoping he could catch sight of Trayvon again. Looked around a bit more. He wanted to be able to tell the cops where to find Trayvon when they got there. Seriously, only a complete moron would call the cops before shooting someone if they intended to shoot them all along (which is what most of the posters are claiming). Nobody is using much common sense on this topic.

do you think it is not the slightest bit possible that Zimmrman tried to physically detain Martin?

No, no chance. Trayvon was in great shape and much younger and bigger. Trayvon did the attacking. We do know that much.

Yes, trial by media--we wouldn't want the rule of law to get in the way. (okay, sarcasm off)

Not to worry bibleverse1, these posters know exactly what happened, and have tried and convicted him. We don't need no stinkin' trial.

The law is being followed finally. And you are welcome to not only stop reading, but stop writing also. You people seem to not only "waste your time" reading, but then waste even more contributing nothing to the discussion, and vilifying the rest of us who feel like talking about it. Move on!

If you are in a car, you can simply drive away from any perceived trouble.

bibleverse1 ...(#19)..."I think the evidence will allow him to be freed but he will be sued into poverty'

Not true...If the Judge at the Immunity Hearing or the Jury at a trial finds Zimmerman acted in self-defence and it was a Justifiable Homicide, Florida Self-Defence Statues do not allow for Civil Lawsuits :

"Florida Statutes 776.013(3)(2006) states:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

"A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force...

This language makes clear that the law provides a true immunity and not merely an affirmative defense. The Florida legislative session law notes demonstrate the true intent behind the new law stating; "The Legislature finds that it is proper for law-abiding people to protect themselves, their families, and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others".

The relatives of the dead guy can't sue, no matter how much of a nice guy they think he was.....

The law said allowed to protect him self and family from intruders and attackers. Zimmerman did not shoot an intruder nor attacker. Martin civil right were intruded upon and he was allowed to stand his ground as he most likely knew he was being attacked by a raving lunatic with a gun. The Jury will be armed with plenty of common sense, and not emotional BS. And he don't even want this judge to rule. This idiot put himself between a rock and a hard place. Guilty as charged!!

Charles-1820634...(#19.3)..." Zimmerman did not shoot an intruder nor attacker. "

That is your opinion.

"And he don't even want this judge to rule."

This Judge could have easily ruled to not grant bail again, but he did....Here's my take on it.

....In my opinion the Judge did what he had to do because of the PayPal crap, by raising the Bail amount and also imposing stricter conditions.....On the other hand, I think he may be in the process of examining all the "evidence" and may think the State's case is weak, and doesn't want to imprison Zimmerman between now and Mid-2013 when this case would come to trial...."

In any event, if the Immunity Claim is not Granted at the Immunity Hearing, it does not preclude it from being presented at Trial....and the Jury then gets to decide....

The law said allowed to protect him self and family from intruders and attackers. Zimmerman did not shoot an intruder nor attacker. Martin civil right were intruded upon and he was allowed to stand his ground as he most likely knew he was being attacked by a raving lunatic with a gun.

Good post, Charles.

Cool Mike

There would be others the prosecution would have to discredit including their own cops. This case doesn't begin and end on Zimmerman's statement alone.

He has told so many lies that I doubt a jury will believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Yes the burden of proof is on the State.

Yet all the state has to do is show a jury that he is a habitual liar, with a propensity towards violence and aggression, of bullying co-workers......yeah...he's going to go away for a long time.

We can only hope.

This trial does ends with Zimmerman's statements. The cops will be telling , mostly, what Zimmerman told them. But Zimmerman is the main attraction, whether he wants to be or not. Every lie he tells will drive one more nail into his coffin. Make no mistake about it; Zimmerman is the main character here He will get the royal scrutiny.

Yet all the state has to do is show a jury that he is a habitual liar, with a propensity towards violence and aggression, of bullying co-workers

Good point, Patrick. That will establish what kind of person was following Trayvon.

The KKK will not sponser a 1/2 hispanic man. You have to be ALL white.

Yes we will. White Power!

Cool Mike

I've lost five loved one to murder. What objection do you have about facts?

And if Martin had been my son he would have been grounded for his third suspension not walking around free as an adult and I would have known where my son was. Heck, he wouldn't have gotten beyond the suspension because I would have cracked down. He wouldn't have gotten away with smoking weed without my knowing it.

Wow Carmen. Sorry but you have got to be one of the most unlucky people ever.

Blow it out your ass, you know nothing but your stupid attitude and what you read in the left wing media. Thats the trouble with this country, you people breath and vote.

I know. The country would be so much better if it only consisted of people like you, chippie.