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Subscribe to RSSBarbara Johnson called for a Catholic priest's removal from the ministry after he denied her communion at her mother's funeral and then left before finishing the service. Johnson told her story to msnbc's Tamron Hall.
A priest who denied communion to a lesbian at her mother's funeral is no longer in ministry with the Archdiocese of Washington, a spokeswoman for the archdiocese said Monday.
Rev. Marcel Guarnizo, who served at St. John Neumann parish in Gaithersburg, Md., was placed on leave in mid-March for engaging in intimidating behavior, NBCWashington.com reported at the time, and now he is leaving for good.
“Fr. Marcel Guarnizo is a priest of the Archdiocese of Moscow, Russia, who was given a temporary assignment at St. John Neumann parish,” Chieko Noguchi Scheve, director of media and public relations at the Archdiocese of Washington, wrote in an email to msnbc.com. “That assignment period has ended and Father Guarnizo is no longer in ministry in the Archdiocese of Washington.”
When reached by telephone, Scheve declined further comment on the matter.
Barbara Johnson, the woman who was refused communion, had been asking the archdiocese to remove the priest. A Washington Post reporter first noted on Twitter that Guarnizo’s assignment was over.
Johnson, a 51-year-old founding director of a small art center, attended her mom's funeral with her partner of nearly 20 years at St. John Neumann on Feb. 25. When it came time for communion, Guarnizo “issued a strong admonition that only Catholics in a state of grace can receive communion,” Johnson told msnbc.com.
“I went up. I was standing next to my mother’s casket and he covered the bowl, and said, ‘I cannot give you communion because you are with a woman, and in the eyes of the church, that is a sin.’ I stood there with my mouth open in a state of shock for -- I don’t know how long,” she said.
Guarnizo also didn’t attend her mother’s burial, Johnson said. She told msnbc.com on Monday that she was relieved by the archdiocese's move, although she thought it might have more to do with the alleged “intimidating” behavior than how she was treated at her mother’s funeral.
“It gives me great comfort to see that the Archdiocese of Washington acted swiftly initially not only to point out that his behavior was wrong and not in accordance with their policy but then to suspend him. And this final message from them says to me that, unfortunately, this was not a person that was meant to be in the ministry in this region,” she said. “Knowing that he will not be able to visit such pain on another family in the Washington archdiocese gives me and my family a lot of comfort.”
One positive aspect of what happened to her was that “it showed the very human face of the issue regarding the church and the church’s teachings, and behavior towards the LGBT community within the church,” she said. “I just wish that there was a more global and more positive church response to the LGBT community” on issues such as marriage equality and communion.
Priest who denied communion to lesbian suspended
Woman: Priest denied me Communion at mom's funeral because I'm gay
The Archdiocese of Washington had sent Johnson a letter of apology within days of the funeral, saying Guarnizo's behavior wasn't correct.
“When questions arise about whether or not an individual should present themselves for communion, it is not the policy of the Archdiocese of Washington to publicly reprimand the person,” the letter said. “Any issues regarding the suitability of an individual to receive communion should be addressed by the priest with that person in a private, pastoral setting.”
Guarnizo, in a statement to the Catholic News Agency on March 14 after his initial leave, defended his actions.
“I understand and agree it is the policy of the Archdiocese to assume good faith when a Catholic presents himself for communion; like most priests I am not at all eager to withhold communion. But the ideal cannot always be achieved in life,” he wrote, noting that he “quietly” withheld communion and did not reprimand Johnson or give her a “small lecture.”
“I did not and would not refuse to accompany Barbara Johnson and her mother to the cemetery because she is gay or lives with a woman,” he said. “I would never intentionally want or seek to embarrass anyone publicly or increase anyone’s emotional distress during such a difficult time. I did not seek or contrive these circumstances. But I am going to defend my conduct in these instances, because what happened I believe contains a warning to the church.”
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While the priest did seem to be rude and bullying, and I strongly disagree with the way he handled things, as a fellow gay person I have to disagree with the basis of this woman's complaints. It does not take a genius to know that the basis of catholic teachings do not agree with homosexuality, so to be shocked when a catholic priest would take issue with your lifestyle comes off as entitled and annoying. I completely agree that the priest needs to be disciplined or revoked if he did not fulfill the terms of giving the mother a proper burial, but for this woman to make this about her is just unecessary. If you don't like the way a religion conducts itself, and it is not interfering with your legal rights, then don't voluntarily engage in that religion. Again I can understand that she was doing this for her mother and the priest did seem to be a complete a-hole about it, but don't go around trying to change a centuries old religion if you already know the rules.
I guess you missed the part where the archdiocese said that the priest violated its policy about communion.
Hence the part about strongly disagreeing with the way he handled things. I think he definitely should have treated her with far more respect, and I fully support her outrage if he ruined her mother's funeral, I just think that the underlying shock that the catholic church would do such a thing is a bit misplaced, is all.
I agree Anon. The Catholic teaching is clearly anti-gay. No one has to agree with it or accept it. As a former Catholic now atheist who couldn't be more upset with the Church for its' child sex abuse scandals (crimes) and more importantly, the clear cover-up, I would defend their right to withhold a piece of bread from this woman.
I also defend her right to live the way she wants to and would be against any active discrimination by the Church. She and the Church simply don't see eye to eye and I would expect her to not want to participate in communion for that very reason.
How the priest knew she was a practicing homosexual I'm not sure, other than the way she looks. If he assumed it solely based on that, he was way out of line.
Pull all federal funding to Catholic organizations. Pull the tax exempt status for their political campaigning. The Catholic Church seems to have a war on reason. I suggest reason start a war on the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Priests take issue with her "lifestyle"??? I think they should look in the mirror and remember last weeks boys choir practice. I will stop writing as a feel a suspension coming.......
Oh marbles, would Jesus withhold a piece of bread from this woman?
When this story was first reported, they told the whole story. When she met with the priest for the planning of the funeral, she was quite up-front with him about her partnership with another woman.
While I agree with what anon says, I also want to see the day that priests refuse Communion to people engaging in adulterous affairs. Or people who have violated laws. How many people who receive Communion are TRULY in a "state of grace"? We are all sinners, and we all struggle. We should be reaching out to people rather than deliberately snubbing them. Hey, if Communion were denied to every Catholic who has broken with Catholic teaching on birth control, how many people would be eligible to receive the sacrament?
SRS-
So you would be in favor of closing all Catholic Univeristies, Hospitals, Missions, and Charities?
Let's just make the Federal Government responsible for everything. They can just print money and distribute it as they see fit. They can own and run all businesses and ensure that everyone gets a crappy subsistence level existence on the Federal Government teet.
Ask the people in North Korea and Cuba how that's working out.
Haha, no Seven2Seven, I agree that they should NOT, I was merely trying to say that when both sides of a culture war get too extreme is where you start to have big problems and societal divide. Do I agree with the catholic church? Absolutely not! Which is why I'm not a catholic. Do I believe in most of their views on issues, heck no! But at the same time, I believe tolerance and respect is a two way street. I don't want religious people telling me what to do. I wouldn't want a religious anti-gay catholic having any say in my life, so I believe the same tenet should apply, and I won't tell them what to do either. Doesn't mean I have to agree or like them, anymore than they'd have to agree or like me. Where this was unacceptable was the priest being disrespectful and rude to her. That was uncalled for and awful and he should be disciplined for that, I was just saying that I believe the thing she takes issue with was the priest did not want to give her communion, and I think he's justified for having his beliefs.
Technically, the Church isn't against homosexuals or even people of the same sex having a relationship: It is against people of the same sex having sex (splitting hairs, yes, I know). Technically, Johnson could have gone to confession the day before and renounced her "wicked ways" and would have been perfectly able to have received communion. The priest was a jerk.
I live in the area and before I totally gave up on the Catholic Church I went to mass several times at St. John Neumann. It had the scariest vibe ever, kind of Stepford Catholics. Later found out that the church has been taken over by a Catholic cult called the Mother of God Community. Look it up.
As someone who had been a practicing catholic until recently, I have grown tired of the sad, bullying behavior of our priests. Either towards their parishioners or our nuns. I hope this is a shift for the entire church.
My churches support of anti-abortion and anti-birth control legislation, all the while supporting a budget plan that wants to take away the aid to feed and shelter these children once they are born has made me disgusted with the hypocrisy.
This is the first in what I hope is the return to Christ's teachings. Love one another and don't try and play God by judging others.
Marbles
"So you would be in favor of closing all Catholic Univeristies, Hospitals, Missions, and Charities?"
If removing their tax exempt status causes their universities, hospitals and charities to close, SO BE IT. They are doing no net good. If the money people contributed went to other charities, they would pick up the slack. If the religious emphasis were to be removed, the money would go farther. No spending on Mary statues, priest vestments or religious tracts, not to mention the huge ornate churches and "retreat centers". A local community (St. Francis, WI) is in serious trouble financially because so much of the property in town is church owned as a "retreat" on Lake Michigan for the upper level Catholic hierarchy.
As for their missions, the only thing they should really be allowed to do under their tax exempt status, they would disappear BECAUSE of the rest of the crap.
Really. The Catholic church makes millions and millions on their "not for profit" hospitals. I like where they just got in trouble for suing the indigent. Disgusting. Their Universities are nothing special. Their hierarchy is riddled with criminals (literally - most of them look GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY of covering up CHILD ABUSE of DECADES) and money sent to their charities is siphoned off by the Pope to pay his bills. Did I mention, DISGUSTING.
No. We would all be WAY better off WITHOUT the Catholic Church. ESPECIALLY CATHOLICS!
"would Jesus withhold a piece of bread from this woman?"
You're making the assumption that Jesus and the Catholic Church are teaching the same thing.
I pretty much came on here to make the same point you did Anon
SRS.....what a good hate filled Nazi you make.....
DaughterofAVeteran
What are you talking about? What budget? Gov't budget? Church budget?
"would Jesus withhold a piece of bread from this woman?"
He would have told her to go and sin no more. While Christ forgave sinners, he did NOT at any time condone the act of sinning.
In that vein, the Catholic Church does not hate homosexuals. It does, however, believe homosexuality to be a sin.
For everyone bringing up the (awful) clergy-abuse cases: teachers & sports coaches are FAR more likely to abuse children than priests. I don't see too many people calling for taking away the tax-exempt status away from the teacher's unions!
SRS: All are guilty without a trial? Nice. Say hi to Uncle Adolf and Uncle Joe for me! Hey, I know! We need to take away government support of public schools, too! After all, if those pedophile teachers are doing it all the time and they're covering it up and... they're all guilty!
@nycguy
Actually, the Nazi's were for the most part, following versions of Catholic ideals that were taken one step too far.
Probably not the best thing to try to compare SRS to.
your right princess....i go to church every week and I see gay people there....not saying that it's a sin to be gay, but you're right that none of us who receive are picture perfect (or even close).....i admit to being one of them.
I agree that it's a two way street, and the woman in question should not have expected to take part in a ritual that she knew she was ineligible to take part in according to church rules. On the other hand, if she was up front with the priest at the planning session, he should have told her right then and there, IN PRIVATE, that she couldn't take communion.
I say pull your funerals out of churches. Have a friend officiate it (totally legal in most places). The friend knew your loved on better than any priest did. Take money away from the church however you can. When those that are oppressed refuse to give religion any more bank notes, only then will they be free. Religion has done more to oppress people than any other institution (big business) in history. It's even worse than the Koch heads.
Sadly, the Church's and Jesus's teachings diverged long ago.
I was more interested in seeing this fellow as being from Moscow, Russia, and a Catholic Priest no less, in Washington, D.C. Perfect for being a spy. Walk into the confessional and unload your secrets. The controversy probably blew the cover. Anyway, it would make a good spy novel. Certainly it wouldn't be the first time a Catholic confessional has been used for spying, ( in pieces of fiction anyway ).
Denied partaking in a cannibalistic ritual for loving another human being. I'm glad at least the Church says it is not their policy to deny flesh and blood to those wanting to masticate on their god.
Steve Herbert, that is the first thing I thought of when I saw this priest was from Moscow, Russia. Just think of it - A priest from a (former) cold war enemy hearing all of the dirty little confessions that government workers have to make. Somedays the world just has to laugh at how times have changed.
Serious question here - can anyone point out the chapter and verse where the bible states anything about Lesbians? I know they threw in the part about men having sex because they were being attacked on all sides by the Hellenic Successor States to Alexander's Empire, and the Greeks/Hellenes had no such repulsion to gays or bi-sexual males.
However all I recall reading regarding women is that they were "unclean" during menstruation. So, seriously, where do I find where the OLD Testament say anything about a woman that has sex with another woman? Preference would be for a bible not as poorly translated as the KJV or those derived from it, as I want an accurate translation.
I remember a passage where 'moral' men were about to stone a whore and Jesus asked for the ones without sin to cast the first stone. It seems that judgment condemns. What ever happened to keeping the teaching of Jesus before the politics of religion?
Princesbride, while I have never been a catholic in the previous article about this the priest said he refused her communion because even if she confessed to her sin, she planned to continue sinning by continuing to live with and have sexual relations with a woman. I would hope if a case of adultry was well-known or if the person guilty of that confessed that sin that they would also be refused communion if they continued their affair. This woman knows the rules of the church and in her shoes I think I would leave the church, since if you practice any religion you should follow all rules not just the ones you like. I do agree with most of you that the priest should have informed her of this in private before her mother's funeral.
I would rather be around MANY gay people than around one pedophile priest. Jesus said that our inheritance is guaranteed, even for pedophile sinners forcing themselves upon the innocent. I wonder if He meant to exclude consenting gays and lesbians.
and yet they give communion to Mexican hypocrites like illegal aliens?
Thank you Anon for your fair statements.
@ Peter - I agree with you sir. However, I do have to point out the passage you mention about "casting the first stone" doesn't appear in any bibles written prior to the 10th Century, so some Monk/Scribe must have thought it sounded good, and would have been something the historical Jesus would have said.
You will also find, in each of the 4 Gospels that made it into the bible, that Jesus saves the male servant of a Roman Centurion (the particulars vary according to the Gospel), but the Greek words used indicate that this Centurion and the servant were very close, and were often used to describe lovers. Jesus not only heals the servant, but blesses them both. If the Greek wording is what it appears to say, then Jesus had no problem with gays, though I am sure the Fundies will scream about this, even if most theologians agree that it is likely the case. BTW, Fundies, for the record, i am hetero and have been married to my college sweetheart for the past 19 years. I simply believe all life is sacred and as such everyone is entitled to the same rights as everyone else.
One last note - I have noticed no one has been able to answer my question regarding the Bible and Lesbians. I highly doubt there is such a passage, as the Hebrews of the period when Judaism was being codified wanted to make sure none of their own became Hellenized, and if they accepted love between two males, it was a sure sign they were embracing what Alexander had started.
You said it all. Thank you CelticPagan. Throughout history fine examples of leaders become manifested. I mention Jesus merely because his teaching, whether true or not, resonate at a very high level of conscience and posses what I would consider Universal Truths. Much like your sentence I quoted above. I also admire people such as Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, JFK, Martin Luther, Abraham Lincoln, Mother Teresa, just to name a few. May I suggest a good read, Power vs. Force by David Hawkins Md, Phd. I would like for us to chat some more in the future. Thanks.
Peter, may I suggest reading about the lives of both Zoroaster and Siddhartha (The Buddha, meaning the very first one, as there have been others). Both came well before both a codified "Jewish" religion and, naturally a Christian one (which led to Islam BTW, as most Arabs were Christian or "Pagan", the quotes to show that they were different from Pagans as we know them today, who are based on mostly European pre-Christian religions). You'll find their messages are very similar to the teachings of the historical Jesus, and likely were heavily influencing spiritual guides that lead Jesus to teach as he did.
Zoroastrianism in fact is what lead to the Christian notion of a "God" v "Devil". The Jewish tradition of Satan is there are many satans, with Samiel, who sits to the left hand of "God" and has the title "Prince of Satans". The Hebrew word for Satan is "ha-satan", meaning the "accuser", "tempter", "persecutor", "calumniator", or "adversary". God gives both Samiel and his underlings the power to tempt humans so that they could determine if the Hebrew people are/were following "God's" laws. Obviously giving in to the temptation means they were not, and thus warranted being punished. In Isaiah, "Lucifer" is cited as Satan, but the reference is clearly as being aimed at the Babylonian King, one of who's titles was "Light Bringer". Never does Samiel have any power to rival "God's" own, nor is he cast out of Heaven. Aziel, as leader of the Angels who have sex with human women giving rise to the Nephelim is cast out for this transgression, but is never any Power, and so cannot be "the Devil". However, in Zoroastrianism, there are two deities, one that is all good and the other who is all evil, and the fight a never-ending battle with each other, waged through their angelic-like servants. Thus the whole notion of the Christian Devil comes not from Judaism, but from Zoroastrianism.
Thanks CP, I will seek out these books you recommend. In my early twenties, and with precarious health, I sought out the meaning of life and found many practical tools to align the mind in order to identify and later on naviagte the sacred stream of life, not to mention recouperate physical health. Universal Truths are truly wonderful and extremely powerful once we align ourselves with them. Death/resurection, Ying/Yang, de Tao, Christ mind, etc. They all helped me calm the mind, place fears in their proper place, and eventually harvest vital energy in order to enjoy real life. Like you said, life is sacred and we MUST celebrate it in all of it magnificent expressions. No way can we work against the stream of life. It is bigger than any one of us. Thanks for our conversation.
At first I thought that was a photo of Elton John when he was young.
Good. Hopefully the rest of the Catholic hierarchy will grow up and learn to treat gays with respect rather than condemnation. Maybe one day they'll even stop lobbying against the legal rights of gays.
And what legal rights are those that the poor, downtrodden gays are denied except the God-given gift of marriage?
Calling it a "gift" is a little bit of a stretch, no?
Marriage is not "god given." It is state given. You are not married without a state license, no matter how many ceremonies in a church you have. In contrast, I'm married and didn't include religion at all in my wedding, but I did get a state license.
And since marriage is a state function, and deemed a right based upon a plurality of court cases, there is no reason equality should be denied this group.
Equal protection of the law would be the first and foremost - America should have no 2nd-class citizens. Next would come things like the right to transfer property to your spouse free of federal inheritance tax, the right to spousal social security benefits, the right to sponsor a foreign spouse for a visa, the right to travel from state to state and still retain the legal protections of marriage, etc.
In other words, all the things straight married folks take for granted and all the things willfully ignorant bigots like Timothy choose to ignore.
Timothy, marriage is not a "god-given gift," since it existed as a civil contract for thousands of years before there was any organized religion.
In fact, nothing is "god-given," since the bible is nothing more than fairy tales.
Timothy1Mil:
HEY! LEAVE THE CHURCH OUT OF IT! What church? The official Church of the USA? Which one is that? What a church says is up to the church. Why, one religious cult even advocated PLURAL MARRIAGE! I am sure Mitt Romney's Grandpa wouldn't have moved to MEXICO if he was satisfied with ONE WIFE.
So saying "the church" says this or that is MEANINGLESS! Religion BY DEFINITION makes no sense so to try to run a COUNTRY based on what a bunch of WACKOS believe is pretty absurd.
SRS, I'm quite certain that Timothy was referring to Allah.
gods gift ----- legal right ----- I think someone is really confused, ie. cart before the horse, gay marriage?
Oh, such fools. Marriage is a God-given gift according to the Bible. The Bible was written long before we had "states" just as the rainbow in the Bible has an entirely different meaning than allowing sodomites and lesbians to be free to evade God's laws, show up in church for a sacred ceremony and cry "foul" and "hater" when they are denied participation in such sacred rites. This foolish woman cursed herself, according to God's Word. Read the Bible before you make such hateful judgments against it and the people who follow it.
We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin in all situations. I do not understand or agree with the lifestyle, but it is not my place to judge anyone, I have enough of my own issues with sin without trying to take over God's job.
Watch out everyone, we've got a troll on our hands!
The people who follow it Timothy, rape children. What does the bible say about that? This woman is with another consenting adult. The bible was written as mind control for the simple-minded masses, it's even a sin to doubt it, they knew what they were doing. They have translated and retranslated it and twisted it in any bias the person translating it wanted. Even if you're foolish enough to believe the bible is a valid argument to any subject, what is written there now is nothing like the original text. Marriage existed long before the first bible was ever distributed so no, it is not god-given just as the bible was not god-given as god did not write it.
So were Grimm's Fairy Tales and Aesop's Fables -- and they are just as "factual" as the bible.
Furthermore, the bible is irrelevant to our laws; we are a secular nation.
"Whoever is without sin, let him cast the first stone." seem to be the most repeated words of Jesus Christ. But few seem to remember..."If your brother sins, take him aside and tell him. If he will not listen, bring others to convince him. If he does not listen, bring him before the CHURCH. If he will not even listen to the CHURCH, cast him into the outer darkness where there is weeping, wailing, and the gnashing of teeth!"
Dear Barbara,
If you belong to a weird cult that is controlled by old predominately white men who like little boys this is probably not the cult for you. I suggest the Anglican or Episcopalian as they are more tolerant and overall have a much higher level of sophistication and intelligence than the rest.
So there's no abuse or coverups in the Anglican/Episcopal Church? Click here or here. It happens in every single large organization where children are involved.
The only place I could find to back that up was some anonymous person on blogspot.
Both of which suggested I clean myself of the "sin" in my life (referring to my sexual orientation) to be fully accepted into their churches.
Episcopal is just Roman Catholic lite... "all the religion and half the guilt". Heck, I'd say that the average Episcopalian church is LESS liberal than a Jesuit Catholic one!
So a lesbian who doesn't believe in God wants to participate in a holy ritual in which the Bible condemns people for participating in if they are non-believers and the priest is to blame?
What utter B.S. Lesbians and other abominations should be ashamed of themselves.
Good thing you didn't address "pedophile priests" not only taking part in communions but giving communions....
But wait - don't want priests to be blamed...
Forget the Lesbians....those who should be ashamed of themselves is the "Catholic Church" as a whole!
Timmy,
Thanks for writing, as we need folks like you to demonstrate the face of intolerance, and bigotry for all to see. In a backhanded way you did the world a service.
Timmy,
Just where did you surmise that this lady doesn't believe in God? She's obviously a practicing Catholic.
Your Hatred is overflowing and unbecoming. I'm sorry for you.
LesbiansBigots like Timothy and other abominations should be ashamed of themselves.Fixed that for you.
other abominations should be ashamed of themselves.
I agree Timmy, bigotry is an abomination. Look in the mirror, your reflection is ashamed.
HEY. THAT LESBIAN IS PAYING FOR THE CHURCH so the church should SHUT UP and let her do what she wants. Because the church is TAX EXEMPT and we ALL pay for the services it receives, it should be respectful. If ANY CHURCH wants to be a BUNCH OF JERKS, they should PAY TAXES. I am SICK and TIRED of paying for SOMEONE ELSE'S MAGIC GUY IN THE SKY!!!
SRS-798254 - How is the gov't paying for a religious organization's services? What services? Religious organizations don't get free utilities. If there's a fire at a church, the gov't should just let it burn down? A crime occurs on church property and the police just let it go? Such incidents likely account for a tiny portion of municipal budgets. Your post is all hot air.
Well zup churches get fire/police protection but they don't pay for it. They force themselves into government yet don't pay taxes. They demand special exemption from the laws the rest of us have to follow. Why should they continue to receive tax exempt status when they are so much against what is good in this country?
The Church will not remove Priests who sexually abuse chidren, I doubt they would remove a Priest for denying Communion.
Alverant - By that logic we would need to take tax exempt status away from local symphonies, art collectives, Amnesty International, Carnegie Corporation of NY, the Red Cross, Goodwill Industries, PBS...
But no, those shouldn't be taxed, just the churches, right? Discrimination much?
Lesbians aren't criminals
Pedophile priests are criminals.......just like illegal aliens who steal resources meant to feed poor Americans.
zupercam:
Hot air? The Catholic church is whining about paying the portion of their insurance bill that would go for contraception - a service a "real" Catholic would not need. How then is it HOT AIR when a TAX-EXEMPT church that is a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the area in my community PAYS NO PROPERTY TAXES? That is, for example in St. Francis, WI, NEARLY A THIRD OF THE AREA. If it were NOT tax exempt the property owner would pay ABOUT ONE THIRD LESS PROPERTY TAXES. In St. Francis on a 100,000 home, that is ABOUT $1000 DOLLARS. So, every property owner is paying $1000 dollars TO SUPPORT THE CHURCH.
That is HOT AIR? Give me $1000 and see if it feels like AIR!
SRS: And in 2011 alone in Milwaukee County, the Archdiocese of Milwaukee aided 22,000 people with free services.
Adult day services: 4,198 hours.
Free legal services to immigrants: 1,320 hours.
Agency wide: 788 hours.
Behavioral health: 586 hours.
Refugee Resettlement: 450 hours.
Advancement: 427 hours.
The organization spent:
$1,427,400 on aid to the disabled & adult day services.
$2,719,100 on behavioral health, adoption & pregnancy support, refugee resettlement, legal services for immigrants, parental support & school counseling.
$647,100 on outreach services
So: that's ~ $4.8 MILLION in just one year, not counting the donated time.
http://www.ccmke.org/CatholicCharities/pdf/Newsletters/FINAL2011AnnualReport-web_1.pdf
...and that's just the Archdiocese's official charity. Add in the individual parishes, the Bishop's Appeal, the Knights of Columbus, etc... and the benefits of the RCC in Milwaukee is probably well in excess of $100 million a year.
A writer in Time Magazine said the heirarchy of the Catholic Church is "obsessed with women's reproductive organs" leaving room for the inattention they give to other problems we face like poverty, climate change, war, etc. I can see how their conservatism is becoming a noose around their neck. The priest in this case should have respected that this young lady is also one of God's children whether they like it or not, and it was her mother's funeral, for goodness sake! They also would vociferousy deny communion to democrats who uphold the law on abortion-remember John Kerry? That seemed political to me. Why weren't they denying it to congressmen who upheld capitol punishment? And as for gays, I don't recall Jesus ever speaking of them in the scripture. And if Jesus loves them that is His business, and not for anyone else to decide.
I'm sure a "writer for Time Magazine" knows all about the ends and outs of the Catholic Church, just as a writer for ESPN knows all about the ins and outs of gaydom.
Adoph Hitler was one of God's creations too. Think he should receive communion.
Communion itself is an act of admission of your sin and guilt and accepting the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. This Bimbo was celebrating her sin and thinking that everyone should be forced to honor her beliefs.
Democracy and freedom are dying more and more each day as we cater to the "special few."
@proudamericanveteran
You said:
"Democracy and freedom are dying more and more each day..."
Can you explain this comment to me, specifically in the context of this article? The words tug at the heart strings but could use some logical backing.
proudamericanveteran
Democracy and freedom die more and more everyday as bigots continue to prevent life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness FOR ALL american citizens.
proudamericanveteran:
The SPECIAL FEW are the CHILD MOLESTERS and POLITICAL CAMPAIGNERS that hide behind their vestments and scam everyone by making them PAY THE CHURCH'S WAY. What we fought for is FREEDOM from jerks like the CATHOLIC CHURCH!
proud, well since Hitler was catholic and based his anti-semetic laws off what other catholics in history have done, then why shouldn't he have received communion?
What's weird then Alverant, is that Hitler killed many Catholics, especially in Poland. If you're confused about who should and should not receive communion, there are Catholic websites or Catechism books that can provide way more information than posting MSNers.
The "special few" seem to be the boil on the arse of humanity.
hey proudamerican, by "special few" should I assume you are referring to heterosexuals who have the right to marry the person they love, have instant say in that person's life, can expect to receive social security benefits (hell, straight people get to collect on their ex-spouses), aren't taxed on spousal benefits offered by employers, and have a union that is recognized throughout all 50 US states. Because if you were refering to homosexuals, you would realize that it isn't us that have special treatment in this country.
Good riddance preacher man.
When my brother died recently the family posted the obiturary with my 3 other brother's and their wives names. My name was listed with my partner of 29 years name.
During the Catholic graveside service the priest read the obit writeup word for word with the rest of my brothers and their wives names until he came to my name, for which he omitted my partner's name and just read my name. This was deliberate and hurtful and there was no mistake that he was reading from anything other than the same write up that was in the local papers, etc.
Regardless of what some priest may or may not think about LGBLT people, there was no logical reason that I can think of why he omitted my partner's name. He should have had enough respect to read a peice of paper the way it was intended to be read and the way it was written up by my sister-in-law. Damn that judgemental priest.
Shameful. No wonder so many people are leaving the Catholic church.
Priests are leaches upon society. They produce nothing of value, and are supported by the rest of society to be professional bigots (at least some of them).
I can't wait for religion to become entirely anachronistic.
You handled it much better than I would. First I would have ripped the annoucement out of its hands then I would berate them publicly and throw them right out of my service.
Mark, I just want to say how sorry I am that that happened to you. To be at your own brother's funeral and be treated that way is unbelievably hurtful and cruel. I hope I live long enough to see progress in the institutions and hearts of more people. But unfortunately, those hateful people have created memories that will last entire lifetimes. Makes me sick.
So...you're a child throwing a temper tantrum?
Unlike you, Adam has the courage not to stand silent in the face of hate and bigotry.
So...he's a child throwing a temper tantrum?
You couldn't think of civil ways to remove him? An adult would take him to the side and tell him to leave.
This priest was a Rightwing bigot no doubt probably a pedophile priest too. In the Catholic church pedophile priests are good,gay people bad. Plus they vilify the nuns who help the sick,poor and destitute. The church with it's nazi pope who lives like a king, is supportive of the fascist GOP no doubt.
The only intelligent post so far is the one from Anon-2702134 . She knew what the church teaches so why was she so shocked? True that the priest was a jacka$$ about it but the rules of the church are there and she knew about them.
Maybe because she goes to a gay-friendly Catholic church where she lives, and because the Washington archdiocese has a reputation for being gay-friendly?
How could she have known that the bigoted priest would violate the policies of the archdiocese?
No wonder he was fired.
The Catholic church would gladly give Jerry Sandusky communion no doubt,plus the priests could share stories about altar boys with Jerry and compare notes.
tomy
you are a first class USDA prime a!@#$%^&
No big surprise here Nazis hated gays like the church and sent many to the gas chambers. Same old,same old.
Er, you are aware that the Nazis were atheists, right?
You are aware you are wrong, right?
No atheist group would put "god with us" on their belt buckle. And forget the numerous speeches to the contrary, etc.
That must be why the Nazis had belt buckles which read "GOTT MIT UNS", and why Hitler said that he was always a Catholic.
Great minds think alike skrekk.
EngEsq & skrekk: No Catholic would put priests to death as Hitler did (especially in Poland). No Catholic would set himself up as a God to be prayed to, with his name substituted into "The Lord's Prayer".
As for "Gott mit uns", are you talking about the Wermacht or the SS? The GERMAN ARMY had that inscription since at least 1871, and earlier if you want to talk about the Prussians. One did NOT have to be a Nazi to serve in the German army.
I don't see how their buckle proclaiming that they "have mittens" (gott mit uns) has anything to do with religion!
Then who the heck is the Pope?
Here's a picture of a Nazi belt buckle proclaiming their possession of mittens. You'd think if the Nazis were so against warm hands like you suggest, they would remove the slogan, but alas it stays.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8wveyDWKG1qzid25o1_400.jpg
Boom!reason:
The Pope is not prayed to.
Er, yes, but the Kaiser Roll's armies also had mittens, and that was decades before the Nazis took over Germany (and therefore the German Army).
http://images.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/471/1707471_110608105640_SAM_2259.JPG
So what you're saying is that both the Kaiser Roll and the Nazi's loved mittens.
However, this disproves you're point that Hitler did not believe in mittens, because he so clearly did. He even gave speeches where he proclaimed his possession of mittens!
I understand that you love mittens too, however this clearly shows that you both love mittens. Why do you reject Hitler's love for mittens? There are enough mittens for you both!
As with all imaginary goods, more mittens can always be conjured up when the supply gets low.
Boom!reason: It's rather simple, really.
If someone takes another's mitten (or goverment, for that matter), changes the color (goodbye Black/Red/Yellow, hello Red/White/Black) and then uses the mitten in summer time (such as in the Sudetenland), it's clearly being used against its purpose and is no longer for keeping hands warm.
Now, suppose one did this with tens of thousands of mittens... and you see that the mitten stealer is obviously not a lover a mittens. Now consider that the ex-mittens (the German Army) had to do what the mitten stealers (Nazis) and the gloves (SS) told them.
Sure they would, especially if those priests were a threat to power. The Catholic church itself has even tortured and executed heretical priests and monks.
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
And just like Hitler, Stalin had a complex relationship with the Russian Orthodox church he was raised in - sometimes persecuting it when it threatened his authority, and also embracing it to enhance his authority.
skrekk: You're going back 400 years? *sigh* Okay, I'll even defend it: they were heretics. That is, NOT Catholics. My point stands.
As for Stalin: It wasn't complicated at all. Stalin's whole POV was to weaken the Orthodox Church over time until is faded away. There was no mention of it in a positive light until Hitler broke the non-agression pact and the USSR was losing the war. After the war, guess what happened? Right back to the way it was. Why do you think he turned one of Moscow's cathedrals into a swimming pool? http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/24/world/church-stalin-razed-now-draws-officials.html
So they weren't even "Catholics" by your No True Scotsman standard, and yet the church murdered them anyway?
Are any of us non-Catholics safe from the ravages of your ruthless cult?
Everybody uses mittens differently.
Just because you don't use them to wash in the blood of those you hate, does not mean you are using mittens properly. For the majority of the history of mittens, they have been used figuratively rather than literally. Only recently have mittens been used solely for one purpose. Before that, and for the majority of the history of mittens, they have been used for a variety of non-literal purposes. Who are you to say what the purpose of mittens is? Do you have access to the tailor's thoughts? No, you're just projecting your thoughts onto those of the tailor.
There are people on TV who prey on those who seek out mittens, and amass great fortunes off of them. The manual that come with mittens say not to do that. Others claim that mittens spoke to them. Still others say that if you use your mittens in any time other than winter time that you will go to summer! There even was this Spanish inquiry as to mitten use that ended up in plenty dead and tortured. Did you forget about all those children who were forced to wear mittens and march to the Holy land (the mittens on their hands overheated them and they all died!)?
How many people need to die in the name of mittens throughout the history of them?
skrekk: It's a basic tenet of logic that something is or is not. A heretic is not a Catholic, so if a heretic were put to death, it's not the RCC killing a Catholic priest. QED. Hitler was *not* a practicing Catholic. Your strawman has burned to embers.
Well, if you travel back in time 400 years, probably not. Right now, I'd say you're fairly safe.
PS: No reply my point that being in the German army didn't make on a Nazi? I'm shocked.
Hitler was Catholic and was baptized. Anything further is mere speculation on your part, because you want to believe that he was not Catholic. The only person building false arguments is you.
Your argument was as follows: "God with us" was used before Hitler was in power, and used by him when he was in power, and he believed himself to be God, so therefore he is atheist.
Your argument is nonsensical. If he was atheist, would he not remove the slogan from the Nazi buckle, and why would he believe himself a god (which, by the way, appears to have no reputable source suggesting that he had people pray to him)?
Additionally, here is a passage from his book:
Hitler used biblical reasoning for his actions, and you can see that in other writings of his as well as in speeches.
You're shocked that we all ignored the straw man argument?
boom!reason:
You are correct: he WAS Catholic, and he WAS baptized. That's about where it ends. Or are all here that have left the Church still Catholics? If mine is a false arguement, you're saying that no one can ever leave a faith.
No, my arguement is that "God with us" had been the German Army motto since there was a German Army. And being in the German Army did NOT require being a Nazi. The whole belt buckle analogy is a farce: it's like saying that because US money has "In God We Trust" on it that EVERY American believes in God.
The German Army buckle had "God with us". The Nazi buckle (Waffen SS) read: "Meine heisst Treue" or "My honor is loyalty".
Why not remove it? Why would he?! Why alienate the Catholic Bavarians and Lutheran Prussians he relied upon?
Ah, yes, Mein Kampf. Are you aware that "Aryan Christianity" was condemned by Pope Pius XI? Further still: Hitler was a eugenist: he wanted to destroy the Jews for being "sub-human", for their ethnicity and biology, not their religion. His hatred was secular as it was based on the Jews as a RACE, not a creed.
It's also hard to call Hitler a good Catholic when he blamed the Jews for creating Christianity and given his adoption of the swastika (a pagan symbol) for his party. Why not the cross, as his hero Mussolini did? Answer: because he didn't believe in it. At all.
Re: prayer to Hitler... Oh? How about this one: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/hitleryouth/hj-timeline.htm
"Adolf Hitler, you are our great Führer. Thy name makes the enemy tremble. Thy Third Reich comes, thy will alone is law upon the earth. Let us hear daily thy voice and order us by thy leadership, for we will obey to the end and even with our lives. We praise thee! Hail Hitler!"
"Führer, my Führer, give me by God. Protect and preserve my life for long. You saved Germany in time of need. I thank you for my daily bread. Be with me for a long time, do not leave me, Führer, my Führer, my faith, my light, Hail to my Führer!"
Well, lets say that I'm shocked you still can't tell the difference between German and Nazi...
You assume he stopped attending church. Any reputable sources for that? Looking online will find plenty of websites claiming this, but none with any proof or sourcing. That means that they're not reputable. People like to make things up, and they spread like wildfire on the internet. For example, many people believe that Darwin renounced Evolution and Natural Selection on his deathbed, which is false.
If you look above, you'd see that I specified reputable sources. Don't believe everything you read online, since it very well may not be true. Your source is not reputable -- you do know what that word means, yes?
You have been seemingly unable to understand how you are wrong, despite being proven so repeatedly. You are too focuses on believing what you want to believe, facts be damned.
Hate to break it to you, but you are wrong. You are blinded by your beliefs.
Ah, refusing to answer my question if one can choose to leave a faith or not. Just like the belt buckle or any number of other "points of Hitler being Catholic" that I've crushed.
As a matter of fact, yes! You can read all about it in Haffner's "The Meaning of Hitler" or any other reputable biography. Hitler said on many occasions that he despised religion in general and the RCC in particular. He did not go to mass after boyhood.
Can you find me any evidence that he DID attend mass weekly? LOL!! Of course not, becuase you know he didn't.
But, if you want a source, here you go: Hitlers Gott: Vorsehungsglaube und Sendungsbewußtsein des deutschen Diktators. Zürich München: Pendo, pp. 94-96.
Ah, attacking the (historyplace) source. To which I say: BWHAHAHAHAHAH! You're saying that a website with a trackrecord of awards starting from 1996 is somehow unreliable? One that is used by history classes all over the country and is regularly used by such unreputable sources as... PBS? (Wow, you sure showed me there!)
I'm shocked you also have the audacity to complain about one site, in the same breath say that you shouldn't believe everything you read online... after JUST asking for a source for weekly churchgoing. BTW, I don't see you citing squat. Your entire arguement is a waste of time, as it's just "because I say so".
If by "facts" you mean your rewritten version of history, then I guess you're right.
Hate to break it to you, but you are wrong. You are blinded by your beliefs.
It becomes clearer and clearer upon each subsequent post of your that you are a troll.
They have a track record of awards, according to themselves. None of the reputable organizations that have supposedly given the awards make any mention of it themselves. It's circular logic. You believe that they have won awards because they said so.
Although I suppose I should pity you, since some childhood trauma left you with unresolved issues that compel you to act out online.
How sad. :(
Don't fret though, things can get better for you. You don't need to let your inadequacies stemming from your past abuse/social awkwardness ruin your life.
I'm rooting for you!
Welcome to my ignore list. Your inability to discuss points with civility (or, heck, even a basic understanding of logic) makes any further contact with you pointless.
Unwritten rule of the church: cover for pedophile priests and let them continue raping young boys. How very Christian of them! I bet Jesus approves!
Lots and lots of things are a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church, adultery being one of them. How many times has he withheld communion from adulterers or other people he considered sinners? Wow - guess nobody gets communion nowadays.
I don't agree with the priest's actions here but all the negative comments about the pedofile scandal are a bit old. Do you know how small a percentage of priests we are talking about? For all those that trash everything the Church does as counter to reason, can your outlandish allegations about all priests being gay or 'philes or obsessed with women's reproductive issues perhaps be unreasonable?
I agree, Tom... From all those that would point out the "bigotry" of the Church they show nothing but their own bigotry by continuing to lump all those involved in the church as pedophiles or accessories to such action. Certainly the pedophile scandal was a horrible thing, and those responsible need to be punished/jailed/excommunicated, etc... but it is prejudice in it's highest fom to lump the entire Church into that group when, like you said, it was a very small # of people involved... especially given the fact that there are something like 1.6 billion Catholics in the world.
We have had a lot of news about female teachers having inappropriate sexual relations with male students lately... would it be fair to lump all teachers into that same group, like so many are want to do with the church and the pedophiles? Just sayin.....
No. I lump all the HIERARCHY together with the pedophiles because THEY COVERED IT UP. The REST of the church are just a bunch of DUPES.
I feel like a dupe too. I contribute MY TAX DOLLARS to pay for the church's municipal services. It makes me feel DIRTY!
When the Catholic church actually does something about the purportedly small number of priests who abuse children I'll talk about it less. So far the church is mostly words and little action.
Regarding your statement that the church is not obsessed with women's reproductive organs, the last time my wife attended a Catholic service was for the funeral of a nun she had known. The entire "eulogy" was about the evils of abortion, and the nun's life and even her name were never mentioned. The nun had not requested this type of service.
And my mother experienced similar pastoral care from a priest regarding her remarriage. (Shortly after my father's death, after they had been married for 30+ years, the priest contacted her to tell her he had just heard "the wonderful news" that my father was dead, and since she was no longer living in sin, she could now return to the church.
was your mother and father divorced before he died, GeorgeBurnsWasRight? If she was divorced, and shacking up with another guy, well then, that is contrary to the Church's doctrine. Was the Priest's choice of words obtuse? Yes.
As far as abortion goes: it is evil. Sorry 'bout the shoddy eulogy for the nun, but killing of an innocent life is hardly "reproductive choice". I personally don't agree with the stand the church has on birth control, but agree 100% on their stand on abortion. Then again, I'm not Catholic. My wife is, however, she even teaches Sunday school. I guess you can say I am no stranger to the Church.
Was a scandal? Just an FYI, the same pattern of covering up the rape of children and shuffling pedophiles off to new, unsuspecting parishes has been repeated in every country where the Catholic church has a presence. In many countries the scandal is just now beginning to be reported. The current pope was also deeply involved in covering up pedophiles when he ran the Office of the Inquisition.
Moreover, the Vatican just told Italian bishops that they are under no obligation to report suspected pedophiles to the police.
SRS: Where do you live? No need to be specific, just give the nearest city. I'll happily point out to you exactly how much GOOD the Church does in your area.
Lucas- to be clear about the situation with my mother, both my mother and father were divorced from their prior spouses before to their marriage to each other. In other words, it was a second marriage for both of them. They were married for over thirty years until my father died of cancer. Now, in the church teachings, she was I guess "shacking up", as you so delightfully put it, with my father for 3 decades.
I could go into further detail, but it would just make the actions of various priests look worse.
@skrekk... so you are gonna argue grammar, now? Did i not say all those responsible need to be dealt with? Other than the fact that you obviously are singling out my statement because I am not decrying the church with the level of enthusiam you feel I should be, you are trying to argue a point I pretty much agree with you on. Quit hating.
I am sorry that happened, George. I was in the hospital several years ago pretty sick, and a nun came into my room to supposedly give me comfort. Instead she sat next to me and gave me a speech on how I was "living in sin" with my husband (we weren't married in the church, but at the courthouse instead) and how our children would be bastards and not recognized by the church as legitimate children of our marriage. Okay, so that was supposed to do what? Who asked her? That was so not appropriate and I told her to leave.
I could go on with a list of things like this, but I made my point.
No, my point was that the Catholic hierarchy still hasn't learned the right lesson. They're still covering up for pedophiles and still failing to call the cops.
All she wanted to do was cause trouble by "being shocked" at not receiving a sacrament of a church and religion she didn't even believe in. "Because I'm gay" is no excuse. She knew the policy and chose to push the issue.
I'm with the priest on this one. His assignment is over. If he were "removed" they would have done so long before now.
So, now everyone knows your gay. No one cares...make you feel better?
Actually, Jim, all she wanted to do was respect her mother's wishes for the funeral, but the priest would not cooperate.
And now everyone knows you're an ignorant bigot. No one cares -- make you feel better?
A more fitting response from the church should have been dismissal of the "boy" priest from ministry. He is totally without compassion and should have known that social mores are much different in the USA. He was a misplaced problem waiting to happen.
.
More of that religious love and kindness I keep hearing about...
He was clearly in a position for which he was not temperamentally suited, but I bet they have an opening and a big raise for him somewhere in the Vatican. That seems to be ground zero for gay bias. Of course, he may have to work alongside a few child molesters, but what the heck...right?
tonywarvet.....it appears that you are gay and an idiot.
Keep to the subject. You are embarrassing yourself.
Jim-263056: it appears that you are
gaya bigot and an idiot. You are embarrassing yourself.Fixed that for you.
I am not a Roman Catholic. I attended a Roman Catholic wedding. All attendees were told that the communion was for Roman Catholics only. I didn't realize I could demand the removal of the priest who officiated.
But this woman is Catholic. She attends a catholic church, etc. She happens to go against one of Catholicisms rules, but I assure you, a huge number of catholics do (divorce, adultery, etc.).
EngEsq- IF she were a practicing Catholic, she would have known that she is not in a state of grace and should not take Communion. So either she knew and was trying to "make a statement" or she lied about being a church-going Catholic.
Either way, she should not have gone for Communion... especially after telling the priest about her partner. That's like telling the cop you're going to rob the convenience store, then actually doing it while he's in the parking lot. The robbery is wrong, but doing it while the guy in there is just stupid.
Or she goes to a church where communion is not withheld and was just trying to pay respects to her dead mother.
98% of catholic women use birth control. Are 98% of the women in line for communion sitting it out?
EngEsq: There's no such a Catholic Church.
Er, not even close. But I can't wait to see your source.
Good question! Me, I'm not in the position to say for sure but my church I do see lots (probably about 33-50%) of people sitting in the pews during Communion.
My source is this very article , which clearly says that the priest went against the policies of the archdiocese.
Secondly, given what constitutes "mortal sin" if more than 5% (or less) of any congregation gets communion then they are sinners getting communion.
Really? I just don't see "98%" anywhere. What line is it on?
Wow, you love the percentages. 100% of you enjoys making up numbers.
It's entirely possible his departure had nothing to do with the controversy; it's quite common for priests to serve for a short period overseas. One of my high school classmates is now a priest, and last year he had an assistant pastor at his parish who was from the Phillipines for one year only. And when we were in elementary school, we received an Irish priest who had come to us after five years in Kenya.
Oh they just moved him around, like they do the pedophiles.
When the Catholic Church allows gay Popes, as is their history, this is hypocrisy.
Christian belief is the "unshakeable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people"
Adolf Hitler
Hitler was not a Christian. The Bible is quite specific about folks like him, Matthew 7:15-16a:
Note that it does not say, "By their word will you know them." This Hitler/Christian thing is getting really old.
Right. A person who believes in christ as the son of god is christian. Period.
Religion if a belief structure, not a definition based upon codes of conduct. I could attend church every day and would still be an atheist. It's my beliefs that define religion (or lack thereof).
Apparently the Catholic church at the time was unable to simply state that Hitler wasn't a Christian, and ex-communicate him. And as for getting old, how about how long it took to get Galileo pardoned?
Possibly for some religions that is true, but for Christianity, that's not the case...
Wrong. It takes more than that. Read the New Testament. It's about following the example that Christ set.
Click on this link for some additional insight on whether Hitler was a Christian. Very informative.
zuper if following the example of Jesus makes one christian (BTW christ is a title not a name), then why aren't more christians casting off their material possessions as Jesus commanded?
Ok zupercram, so what is a person who believes in christ but is not following the "examples" of christ? Many in this board seem to follow this paradigm. The Westbro church seems to also fall into this category.
They are not Jewish, or Muslim, or agnostic, Hindu, Buddhists, or atheists. So what are they?
Oh, and what would you consider me? I don't believe in god, but am far more "christ like" than most christians when it boils down to good deeds.
Zupercram- if following Christ properly is what is required to be a Christian, wouldn't that make nearly all Christians out as NOT actually Christians? Particularly the ones here in America who pervert Christ's teachings that we are to LIVE out lives by his teachings and bring people to God by the example we give them by the way we live - instead of FORCING others to follow his teachings by forcing them to do so by creating laws that prevent any other way of life or way of thinking?
Zupercram appears to be a fan of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
skrekk - Clearly, Hitler was co-opting Christianity to achieve his personal aims. Try writing out the logic of how the No True Scotsman fallacy would apply to what I posted, especially considering some of Hitler's comments made in private. He was quite ambivalent on the subject (public vs. private comments).
EngEsq - You may have love for your fellow man, but Christianity is rooted in faith, hope, and love. You appear to lack the first two, so you would still be an atheist.
Following the example of Christ would be to love one's fellow man. If these people don't show love (let alone respect), then they wouldn't be Christians. Again, Christianity isn't about taking someone at their word, but about deeds. One might say speech is a deed, and they would be correct, but if the speech is hateful, then it's a foul deed. Proclaiming that one's self is a Christian is not a good deed per se, so it wouldn't override committing atrocities, as in the case of Hitler.
Here's where it gets a little more complicated, though. One would be able to sin and still be Christian, so long as they either A) repent, or B) didn't do it with intent. To my knowledge, there is no evidence Hitler repented. Also, given some of his private comments in regards to Christianity, it appears he was knowingly going against the teachings of Christ and was knowingly appropriating Christianity.
Ok, so I don't have faith (I do have plenty of hope however). So I'm an atheist.
But you still fail to tell me what westbro are. They "aren't christian" you say, so what are they?
Adolf Hitler in a private letter to General Gerhard Engel, 1941:
And just like Stalin, Hitler had a complex relationship with his church - sometimes persecuting it when it threatened his authority, and also embracing it to enhance his authority. But he was always a Catholic, and the Catholic church always welcomed him.
EngEsq - They could be choice B, committing hate speech without intent, so they could still possibly be Christians. This isn't about Westboro, though. It's about Hitler. By the way, not to get too picky (seriously), but the hope part is mostly about Christ's return and the Resurrection. Although, I do share with you a hope that humanity can pull its collective head out of its collective arse.
skrekk - Of all the people one may choose to take at their word, you choose Hitler? So this guy can kill off 6M Jews, but couldn't tell a lie? How many treaties did Hitler reneg on?
Possibly because when a psychopath told them lies, they erroneously believed him?