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Subscribe to RSSOfficials have linked forensic evidence from the 2004 murder scene of a Juilliard student to the scene of a recent Occupy Wall Street subway vandalism, NBC 4 New York has learned.
Investigators have connected DNA evidence from the scene of Sarah Fox's murder in Inwood Hill Park eight years ago to DNA collected at the scene of an Occupy Wall Street subway station vandalism in March.
Fox, 21, was found nude and strangled in the park in May 2004, days after she disappeared during a daytime jog. Investigators recovered her pink CD player in the woods just yards from her body.
Sources said Tuesday the DNA found on the CD player is linked to DNA found on a chain left by Occupy Wall Street protesters at the Beverly Road subway station in East Flatbush on March 28, 2012.
Read the original story at NBC New York
That Wednesday morning, protesters chained open emergency gates and taped up turnstiles in eight subway stations and posted fliers encouraging riders to enter for free.
A "communique" posted online later that day by the "Rank and File Initiative" described the act as a protest against service cuts, fare hikes and transit employees' working conditions.
It was attributed to "teams of activists, many from Occupy Wall Street ... with rank and file workers from the Transport Workers Union Local 100 and the Amalgamated Transit Union."
Sources said they have not connected a person to the common DNA found on the CD player and the chain. There's no immediate evidence that the DNA belongs to the Occupy Wall Street protesters who chained open the gates.
No one was arrested in the March incidents. Police are continuing to investigate, and are now working to identify the source of the DNA found in common with the chain and the CD player.
Dr. Lawrence Koblinsky, a forensics expert at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said the DNA link was a major clue in the investigation, one that could potentially break the case.
“You’ve got the same DNA left at two distinct sites," said Koblinsky. "Until they find the individual who left that DNA, we won’t know. But the likelihood is high the person who left that DNA on the CD player is the killer of Sarah Fox.”
Dimitry Sheinman, 47, has long been considered a suspect in the Fox murder. He has since moved to South Africa and started a family. He was never charged in the case.
Sheinman recently returned to New York City, proclaiming to be a clairvoyant with knowledge of the killer's identity. The information he gave police was unclear.
Sources said he remains a leading person of interest.
Sheinman did not respond to a request for comment.
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Should be no surprise that there are many criminals hanging with the Occupy group. Go to one of their rallies or campsites and witness for yourself.
Go to a major league baseball game, or a boxing event... go to the mall... go to the hallowed halls of Congress for cry sake. Criminals criminals everywhere. Occupy is no different, no better, no worse than any other large group of people.
Occupy protesters are losers who mostly have never worked at a job for more than six months. These punks should only be able to protest after showing they paid taxes 2 years in a row. Then they would know what they are actually protesting and have a small life expereince called work.
As for the one who murdered an innocent person I hope they catch him and hang from a rope on the corner of Wallstreet.
Let me guess. You didn't read the story, or even the headline fully, did you?
Dumbass.
Did you read the story ranman? What an ignorant post with no value. I'll avoid writing what I think about you.
When the protestors become violent and cross the line of the law they should be locked up and expect closer watches if they can't police their own..............
There is criminals at baseball games, football games, basket ball games or any sport event. There is criminal at church, at charity party, at your neighbor, at subway train.
Where is all the outrage?
How far underground do you want to drive the twerp? Thanks for the tip.
We have rape case swabs in cities across this country that are sitting in storage because we lack the funds to test them. Why in the world would they pay to have these chains tested. This story is very weird. It makes no sense.
First thing that struck me was, they are doing DNA testing on a vandalism, yet there are many on death row whom they are refusing to allow DNA testing on. Priorities?
It is nice they turned up a lead tho, all be it a meager one.
"This story is very weird. It makes no sense."
That's exactly what I was thinking. Someone spent an exorbitant amount of effort on this one.....this same amount of effort would have put several other criminals away. You could literally run around picking up garbage, test it for DNA against every unsolved crime and have the same effect.
I'm sure their are no criminals mixed in with the sheet wearing, gun totin, bible thumpin redneck crowd on the right.
There has to be more to this story. Cops don't usually do DNA swabs at vandalism scenes where no person was injured.
ALOT of Racist at Tea Party rallies so what are you saying?
If someone is looking to hide in a crowd, it would make sense to hit a large camp or crowd of people who don't know each other well, are distrustful of police, etc.
You are absolutely right. I go by an occupy area each day on the way to work. They have destroyed the grass - and do you think they will have to pay for the destruction - no - we will. They also use the bathroom out in the open - yet the mayor is a lib and does nothing about it.
edited..
Lol, article states "Sources said they have not connected a person to the common DNA found on the CD player and the chain. There's no immediate evidence that the DNA belongs to the Occupy Wall Street protesters who chained open the gates." Try and actually read the headline next time instead of just skimming over it.
You mean it could belong to any number of people that used that particular subway terminal during the time the gate was chained? You mean the chain could have belonged to someone else, and years later was used by another person since a metal chain can last a long long time?
Why are they running expensive DNA tests in the first place on this chain? Was this some kind of violent crime in which a person was hurt or killed? The fact that they are looking this hard for ANY kind of evidence should show you how scared the government is of these kinds of protests. If they are so scared then they should get off their asses and do something about the problems that are pissing people off and causing them to act. People will continue to act up as long as the problems exist, it is not rocket science. I guess that is why the laws where changed so that people can be held in prison forever without right to a fair trial since the writ of Habeas corpus was nullified by the NDAA and Patriot act.
What jobs are there to get when companies previously layed them off and they are not hiring? I guess they should work really hard to get a job that does not exist huh? A job will magically create itself do to hard work when we still have to follow all your stupid rules and regulations...lol. OWS tried to follow the rules and regulations at first, but when your own government breaks their own rules to stop you, you really begin to wonder.
Fingerprints or DNA matches? Amazing that evidence is found 8 years later on a chain in the present day!!! Is it just me or is that strange? Who is checking material from present day to 8 year old cases? I wait to see what comes next in this case, many strange signs in this one.
Once again the news media digs deep to find every possible negative story about OWS. Never do we see a real story about the movement or what OWS is actually about. It was just the opposite with the Tea Party. The media jumped at every possible chance to paint them in a positive light. Incredibly biased reporting.
The Occupy protestors arrived on the scene a scant eight years after the murder took place. Obviously the killer is from OWS. Nice reporting job. What's next? Will OWS be linked to 9/11? Did they go to Iraq and steal the WMDs that never existed? Did they cause the 07 crash and pin it on the innocent bankers? Those lousy OWS gangsters. Why don't they take their whining about corruption, lack of opportunity, health care, jobs and representation in government and move to a socialist country like Denmark or Sweden? Quality of life is overrated.
Didn't make it to the rally in Olympia, Puyallup or Centralia did ya? Lots of different ethnicities were represented and everyone got along great as far as I saw, and not one single person @!$%# on a cop car. Trying to compare a Tea Party rally to an occupy riot isn't going to work, unless people just want to ignore the truth. I'm sure there's @!$%#s that show up to start trouble but it's nowhere on the level of the OWS disasters.
Larry-367607
By sheet wearing I assume you mean the Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops Robert Byrd (D-WV), right?
Or maybe that pillar of segregationism George Wallace (D-AL), right?
I'm not sure, but I don't think they were really "on the right".
Hypocrite!
OWS protest lasts months - Tea Party protest last 3 hours, then it's nap time... make the Tea Party rally for 3 months and see how grumpy they get... lmao.
PS; I like naps, but tea tastes like crap.
George Wallace - WTF??? Name one hippie from the George Wallace era that supported him? Now imagine how far right the Right must have been back then if you consider George to be a Lefty.
No jimmy they would be teapublicans now! You know the one who follow Fox news like the bible.
Now when President Reagan said he did not leave the Democrat party they left him, Now he could say the Republican party has left him!
Blaming OWS is just the stupid, yes STUPID! So we now blame by association.
here is a suggestion for all of you Documentary buffs.
Check out: check out Ethos on netflix and then check out by a Christian also on netflix. then talk!
The more you know!
Vets for Education
All you people seem to forget that all Americans have a god given right to "protest anything we want any time we want". OWS Protesters had a constitutionally guaranteed right (obligation) to show their rightful distrust of wall street, and the perpetual lies told by the republican/tea party aristocracy.
Coach Dan; if LINK TV was the only channel we all got - the Right Wing still wouldn't watch it, it's in the contract they signed with the Devil, too never ever educate themselves... documentaries are taboo according to the church.
ETHOS can be seen several places on-line for free.
If you have ever read my posts, you know I mention the affects ones ethos has on them, all the time.
Coach Dan; thank you for the heads-up on Ethos (it was a much better use of my time than this article). We are such zombies with our fear and our consumer habits, and shame on all major media for herding the masses toward the whims of corporate America... this is embarrassing just how gullible we are.
Tired
I saw the story on Yahoo first. NBC is sticking up for Occupy. The authorities are pretty certain it is someone who was in the occupy group, because Occupy was the only ones to move the emergency exit chains. I'd bet they have video and are trying to get names to faces to track down this person. Being they found the DNA and elected to let it out publicly, there must be a pretty strong lead on the case and are fishing for someone to help fill in the blanks.
well, anyone with half a brain could speculate that the dna on the cd player came from her killer, right? i mean, a pink cd player lying on the ground would never be picked up and looked at, and then tossed. maybe the dna belongs to trayvon martin, after all, witnesses saw what looked to be a black man wearing a hoodie and baggy pants looking suspicious hangin' 'round those chained gates. kind of like that dna of king george the first they found on the grassy knoll in dallas PROVES that there is a high "likelihood" that gwhbush must have been behind the kennedy assasination. seems the police and media are in competition for the dumb and dumber award. too many episodes of CSI, maybe? p.s. i left my dna in hotel room outside oklahoma city several years ago. fortunately for me, mcveigh took the fall like a good soldier. too early in the morning for this crap! bring on the hate...
NYPD is just trying to make sure to tar/feather OWS at much as possible so if new protests hit they can use the line "but the crowd is full of murderer's, see we found this DNA evidence once" so they can crack down even harder than they did the last time.
It's disgraceful that they're testing chains used in vandalism for DNA just to discredit a political protest...
DEBUNKED
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/occupy-wall-street-dna-murder-debunked-130802454.html
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ re DEBUNKED
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ re DEBUNKED
If they aren't sure that the occupy people are even the ones matching the DNA this seems unlikely to lead anywhere. Hope I am wrong
What, they don't have surveillance cameras in the NY subway? How stupid is that? So how many OWS'ers does it take to chain open a subway turnstile? Two or three people do this and you want to blame every OWS protester?
If this is liberal media I'd hate to read conservative media articles.
The rich will do anything to link Occupy to a murder scene so others will think twice before joining Occupy Wall Street. Dont let the Elite get you down a murder has nothing to do with occupy wall street. Wall street itself is they key to this corrupt system we live in now.
You don't get it, Obama, democrats and liberals in media were all excited about OWS, claiming it was the liberal answer to the Tea Party. Then the poll numbers came out over two to one against OWS. Once that happened democrats threw them under the bus, and their media mouthpieces did the same.
With all the rapes, assaults, theft, vandalism, and garbage they became a major liability.
This sounds extremely speculative -they can't really link the dna to occupiers- anybody could have touched it, after it was left there- ridiculous! I like how they snuck the real suspect in their at the end; "If you've seen this guy at any rally's..."
Have they tested HIS dna? How about you make it illegal for him to leave the damn country, at least, otherwise, what's the point of him being a suspect?
The big question is this:
Why would they collect DNA evidence off of a turnstile anyway?
Valhalla Phil; your check is in the mail, American corporations thank you for keeping fear alive in the minds of the gullible. Make sure you only spend that money on our brands or we shut off your RFID. Phil's terror level never goes below Orange, at least that is what my poll says... lmao!
OWS protesters don't want connections to any of the corrupt entities Phil mentions, we don't seek approval from the bosses that run America. Phil; you might want to make yourself aware of all the similarities the Tea Party and OWS have in common - you got a poll for that? PS; your poll exists only in your mind.
Most are missing the main point, this is merely a system ploy to try to label the OWS movement as a group of degenerate, dope smoking, transient, lazy, criminals. They are so stupid in thinking that they can fool enough people into ignoring what the protests stand for, what similar protests by students in Canada and Mexico are expressing and representing.
DNA on a chain that was supposedly used by protesters years later. Was that chain a part of the park scenario/environment as a walkway/jogging barrier later moved by maintenance, or was it DNA evidence left by someone in the protest group 5 years after the fact. Where did the chain come from?
Is a killer actually lose among the protesters and if so; why haven't investigators taken the stance to warn protesters that a possible murderer is among their midst and police need help from them to identify any possible suspect in the case.
No, the media labels it purposely to try to create a scheme of low life criminals in the mass of protesters who are raising legal complaints about Congress, the Senate and the House for molding our country into an unethical political monopoly to keep the gap between opportunistic wealthy society controllers, and the true backbone of America, the working class whose opportunities are diminishing every day.
We have lost our ability to hold our heads up and dream, to work hard towards our goals yet just to have Wall Street, and politicians profit from an era where; folks, you need to wake up. We barely missed a total collapse into a Nation at the mercy of controllers where a Great Depression put families on the street across the country, no jobs at all, government controlling even food supplies restraining farmers from growing too much so prices soared in an unethical attempt to gain control over the market under a guise that it was for the good of the country!?
The same political party that put us into a recession, the Republicans, who only took 8 years to sink the world in to a financial collapse, are now chastising a president for his supposed failure to keep his promises.
His promise for change is in effect, we have seen more positive changes in the last (not even) 4 years, than any president has accomplished since Clinton miraculously recovered our nation to healthiest economic status it had been in since Reagan's Voodoo economics failed.
It took the republicans only 8 years to throw our nation into an 11 trillion dollar deficit, and it has only grown 2 trillion under Obama in recovery efforts to stymie and stall its growth. It costs money to make money and rescue an ailing nation, and will continue to be so until a balance can be found within the partisan stalling legislature and agreeable natures on important issues can be crafted to allow the nation to heal further.
Put another Republican in there after Obama's efforts to keep our nation afloat, and you will only see a 250 million dollar rich man mold and control the country to allow the rich and wealthy to prosper more from the plight and financial suffrage of the lower caste, and then watch him blame it all on Obama and his administration fouling things up so much that he has no choice on deciding in favor of capitalism over the people. He proved it with Baine.
Don't fall for this manipulation by the system to label OWS as a whole lot of thugs and idiots. At least respect there effort for change, and their demand for genuine dutiful representation. All the politicians care about now is representing themselves, their careers and their lords and masters.
You should be mad as hell about it, just like on the movie "NETWORK", and not going to take it anymore, instead of skeptically spouting diatribe at people who have taken their daily routine and changed their daily energies for their idea of the good of our nation, OUR NATION folks!
At least hey are doing something and not sitting at home on their fat arzes, working their ever diminishing jobs just waiting for company retirement buyouts and early retirement, while Wall Street still is making bets on your life savings failing, then following TV news media hype with those same political antagonists who try to mislead the people with every breath they take.
I ask you simply, who's the wiser?
djdrew201 said:
"... the OWS movement is a group of degenerate, dope smoking, transient, lazy, criminals."
That is the only thing I agree with.
All the occupiers create is mess, garbage, anarchy and chaos.
In their air filled heads, they strive to create utopia world, in which we share all we have.
But what they ultimately accomplish will be anarchy in which most people will become poorer than today poor.
To the OWS members it is going to be fine though, they love to live in tents next to pile of garbage. That is their idea of equality.
The writer of this article used the term DNA and probably doesn't even know what the term DNA equates to. I'm willing to bet that he is meaning Finger Prints in both items. Find who owns the finger print, chances are, you find the killer. Match the physical evidance, to whomever, than match DNA.
5 minutes' notice to disperse, then bring in a gasoline truck. Spray the 'Occupy' scum down. Announce a 3 minute notice before the flamethrowers arrive.
It appears the paid media is doing its best to discredit Occupy and any organization that is fighting for the middle - working - class. There's a video, edited by the NRA, that was full of BS. Democratics DO NOT want your guns. Occupy DOES NOT want your money. All WE want is equality in this country, our chance to live a quality life. To own a home, educate our children, have a decent paying job. Thanks to Prez Obama, we have the Affordable Care Act, another program libelled by the right wing repub/tparty. Medicare costs WILL NOT go up to $247 as they claim. Look it up - it's a lie. This coming election is most important. WE will be inundated with "fact sounding" 20 second ads by the repub/tparty. Check it out - it is not truthful nor honest in its context. Remember, the repub/tparty Big Money boys are spending over a billion to get their 'boys' in. Ask yourself, why? We've seen already how they're tearing the middle class to shreds. Let them tear their corporate elitists to shreds, then we'll get common ground to work from. Vote Democratic in all elections, local, state, Federal. Yes, WE can and WE will have democracy in our country and only WE can do it.
Michael Murphy: "The rich will do anything to link Occupy to a murder scene so others will think twice before joining Occupy Wall Street. Dont let the Elite get you down a murder has nothing to do with occupy wall street. Wall street itself is they key to this corrupt system we live in now."
fred
It is not the OWS people !!!!!!
It is the or was the work of the pro adjudicators brought in by the 1%ers along with the gang bangers . Take a closer look at most of the photos of OWS protests . The ones with their faces covered are gang bangers. The ones who are looking or moving away with their backs turned are the pros . Most if not all OWSers face the camera willingly . Nothing to hide or fear as they have done nothing wrong.
Don't forget that there are a great number of unemployed people who are NOT a part of Occupy Wall Street. They are not a part of OWS because they are still busy trying to obtain employment and most of all are just straight thinking folks who will not go that route.
So....was the point of this article to link an unsolved homicide to some unknown person who may or may not be involved in the Occupy movement, and thereby smear and otherwise impugn all the other members? Because if it wasn't, then what was the point?
Don't get me wrong - I'm neutral about Occupy, but I can recognize a smear tactic when I see one.
OWS people linked to murder? I cant believe this! Thats like saying there bunch of thugs that destroy property, harrass and beat people up who don't believe what they believe, rape and do acts of violence while costing tax payers millions to clean up their messes in the areas where they hold their events....
Bob1said: "Fred, It is not the OWS people !!!!!!
It is the or was the work of the pro adjudicators brought in by the 1%ers along with the gang bangers . Take a closer look at most of the photos of OWS protests . The ones with their faces covered are gang bangers. The ones who are looking or moving away with their backs turned are the pros . Most if not all OWSers face the camera willingly . Nothing to hide or fear as they have done nothing wrong.
LOL...so basically what you are saying is that 99% of those out there claiming to be OWS are not really OWS.
DjDrew, your lack of understanding when it comes to history and economics is frightening. I don't have to guess where you will be when the policies coming out of the Democrats cause the economy to collapse. You'll be standing there with your hand out expecting anyone who did have the initiative to work hard and the sense to save to support you. Of course people like you probably think that other people will work overtime just so that they can pay for you to sit on your butt. Sorry but unless you're willing to work, you should simply starve.
Earthgirl, the American dream seems to be working pretty darn well for the Indians, Pakistanis and Vietnamese who come here and work to start their own businesses. What's the difference between them and you? They're willing to have less than ideal living conditions for awhile and work their butts off. They're willing to work those 16 hour days without getting overtime. They're willing to do what it takes to get ahead. You aren't. You have NO right to expect ANYONE to work to provide you with a living. I bet you don't even believe that forcing someone else to work to support you doesn't even count as involuntary servitude. Exactly how much worse is the person who provides NOTHING to those who support them, than the slave master who at least provides the slaves with food, housing and shelter?
Lt. Scrounge: You are so off the beam. Yes, I'm comfortable, through working sometimes 2-3 days without much sleep or any overtime at either job, and rearing a family to boot, a successful family. To burst your bubble further, we only want for others to have the same chances, or more if they desire. I've yet to meet any number of people who desire to live off others - their numbers are so miniscule as to be invisible, except to a repub/tparty marketing pro filling Fox viewers with their lies.
We've (I) lived through WWII, and the Depression was still so fresh in the lives of the people around us, we heard stories that gave us the value of give and take, of truth and honesty - which brings me to the republicans. They're not today what they once were, since the tea party infiltrated. Their lies and continued chicanery is nothing more than deceit. WE don't begrudge the rich, the wealthy who need to have elevators for their cars (snark), WE do begrudge that today the repub/tparty are filling their coffers on the backs of the middle class, still and again, who are trying to live a quality of life. How is that possible without a decent paying job?
Why did the repubs meet immediately after Prez Obama's inauguration to strategize for the coming 2010 election? Why did the Big Money boys fund over $750 million for the election of the tea party to Congress? Why did the Big Money boys have their marketing people lay out the scripts for the campaigns of these tea party people? They spouted, "JOBS, JOBS, Deficit, Spending." BS is all it proved to be, but true to the repub/tea party base, say anything to get elected. So don't give me any BS about people not giving their all to get ahead. That's what Americans do. WE don't sit on our hind. That's the repub/tparty spin.
With the election only 3 months away, we're in for fairy tales, made up nonsense. Not only are the repub/tparty 'fixing' the voters for ID, which itself should tell people how hypocritical they are, they've set up Issa to do his idiot hearings that prove nothing of value. Their War on Women, which they initiated and tried to pull off as a left wing movement, should prove that the repub/tparty is up to no good, not morally, ethically or anyother way. Don't you get it? They want their Fourth Reich and will do and say anything to get it. You vote for a repub/tparty, you're selling out the United States of America to the United Corporation of the World. Remember, even Prez Ike warned us against the faction that wants only to make the U.S. a corporate military might of the world. Vote Democratic in all elections.
I read a story many years ago about the NYPD actively trying to dicredit Vietnam War protesters by manufacturing or exaggerating evidence. The article clearly states it's not a 100% match, so it could be a family member, distant relative, member of the same race. They did not say how close the match was. It's not always like on CSI folks, wouldn't surprise me if was a 60% match or something. That also doesn't take into account what the DNA sample was, sweat, blood, hair. The article states it was on a necklace. That necklace could have been purchased second hand and contain DNA of a previous owner, ect.
There will likely not be a follow up story to this so everyone will just be jumping to conclusions along their party lines anyway. I'll have most of you know I work a 40 hour a week job, pay my taxes, served in the Army in 2004 and have never been in trouble with the law. I fully support most of the things OWS was trying to achieve at least in spirit. However, they need solid incorruptible leadership with more direction.
"Touch" DNA is a big issue in forensics, it is essentially a non-visible source of DNA material left behind at a crime scene, the opposite of blood, saliva or other bodily fluids readily seen on a surface. The chains could have been handled by dozens of people as they passed through the turnstile areas, both protestors and "civilians." The other issue to consider is whether or not NYPD used simple sterile cotton swabs or used "DNA-free" swabs. Sterile cotton swabs are subject to human DNA contamination at the production line, "sterilization" kills off potential bacteria but does not eliminate DNA left behind on the stick of the swab or on the cotton itself. If the manufacturer and batch number of the swabs from the 2004 homicide and the OWS incident are the same (entirely possible since these swabs are often bought in cases of thousands) then you seriously have to consider point of manufacture contamination. And if the DNA profile isn't in the NY State CODIS or the National CODIS you may have to wait awhile before that person commits and is convicted of some other violent crime before their DNA gets collected for a comparison. And "yes" this does look like a slam on the OWS protestors.
@ Clownswillkillyou....
Thanks!!! I'm LMAO on that one.... too bad not that many people get it...
DEBUNKED
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/occupy-wall-street-dna-murder-debunked-130802454.html
Ahhhh.....just so many misguided and misinformed people on both sides of the aisle. Dissent is such a good thing to get the blood flowing. Carry on people.
Hummmmmmmmmmmm ...... Where did the "chain" come from.... Whats its history? Was it "sterile" prior to being used to chain the turn-stalls?
The implication is that it was installed by "Occupy Wall Street" protesters ..... did they bring it with them or just pick it up in the subway?
And, Why would the police sample the DNA on a innocuous chain used to chain open the turn stalls in a subway station without a substantial reason?
Lets hope they catch the killer & this break will prove useful ...
We already knew the Occupy crowd was very violent. Rapes and assults have been common. I guess murders shouldn't surprise us.
Right, because the lawlessness, violence, and crime rampant among the OWS idiots didn't do enough to justify that label? The "system" doesn't have to "try" to label OWS morons. In case you failed to notice, the "system" largely ignored the bad activities of OWS thugs for quite some time. They were given plenty of rope to hang themselves, and they did a magnificent job of it.
FACT CHECK!
As if the blind support of the OWS thugs in your post wasn't enough, you didn't even bother to get easily verifiable facts correct in your diatribe.
In the above excerpt from your post, you're actually talking about the national debt, not the deficit (there's a distinct difference, please go look it up--although the deficit is currently over $1 trillion per year, which isn't good). Now, as to the matter of providing some FACTUAL info:
1) The national debt when Obama took office was $10.626 trillion, so I will grant you the rounding off to $11 trillion (for the debt, and NOT the deficit as you stated). However, that national debt has accumulated over time since the last (and only) time the US was debt free, back in 1836. It didn't just magically appear in the 8 years that Bush was in office as you claimed--and you conveniently ignored the fact that the Republicans [whom you blamed exclusively as a collective party] did NOT control the Congress during that whole 8 years, so it wasn't just "Republicans" responsible for it.
2) As of noon today (7/15/2012), the US national debt is $15.881 trillion, which we'll round off to $16 trillion for consistency. Therefore, the national debt has increased over $5 trillion since Obama took office (just over 3 1/2 years). Your claim of "only grown 2 trillion" is therefore grossly incorrect--that's not even half of the true amount.
By comparison, the national debt when Bush took office was $5.727 trillion and when he left office it was $10.626 trillion. So during Bush's 8 years in office, the debt increased nearly $5 trillion. The debt has increased more in Obama's first 3 1/2 years than it did during all 8 years of Bush! The basic mathematical fact is that Obama has already added more total debt (and in less time) than any President in US history--and Congress was completely controlled by the Democrats for the first two years of his term, so you can't blame it on just "the Republicans."
I'm with you about being unhappy and concerned about the out-of-control and irresponsible government spending (for which BOTH parties are responsible--we ALL need to hold our elected officials accountable). However, you need to get your facts straight and stop being a partisan hack.
The prisons are full of 99%'ers.
The whole "99% vs 1%" thing is complete garbage anyway. 1 out of every 100 Americans isn't living in a mansion being driven around in a limo--although that's the image the class warfare rhetoric pushers are selling...
Why are they gathering DNA from the chains used anyway? I mean, obviously they knew that anyone could have touched those chains, including anyone passing by, or the subway workers, or anyone. What were they looking for -- I just find it odd they took DNA samples from the chains in the first place. To do what, identify Occupiers? That's nuts.
Ya, what about inside taxi? How about at hotel?
This is like going out on the street, find a DNA on a gum and link it to some group since that group passed by earlier.
Our government is paying law enforcement officers a hefty salary to document everyones DNA? This is the new world order.
You forget how broke NYC is. They need every penny they can get from the subways - so they check to see who did the act that cost them money and just happened to match the DNA. Who knows how much more this guy has cost the city.
Follow the money trail....and, you are right they do collect DNA from everything today. It would not surprise me if they were collecting DNA from all newborn babies.
That's what I was wondering, why in the hell would they be performing DNA analyses on a chain used in an act of vandalism anyhow? Even one test can cost anywhere from several hundred up to $5000 depending on how detailed the genotyping is, and I am sure they ran more than just one test, unless the chain was coated in blood or semen or feces or whatever. What's the point, and how do they justify spending the considerable $$ on tests on DNA from a chain used to bind up a turnstile? Now if this was an act of terrorism or a crime where someone got hurt or killed, then go for it, but for some vandalism? Doesn't make sense.
Wally is right, could've been anyone who touched that chain.
The DNA evidence was probably blood. I'd imagine they were trying to determine if a crime had been committed and they found something they never expected.
Oh, my fellow MSNBC posters: Are you all such ingenues? They collect DNA and take fingerprints on anybody who's even arrested now, and if you're cleared or acquitted, you don't get to get that back. You're in the system, forever.
Welcome to the New Order. Have fun!
Perhaps the chain was planted, much like a "throwdown" weapon, just so that the press could have a field day trying to blame OWS for an 8 year-old murder? Perhaps this was done for political reasons, hoping to bend undecided voters away from liberalism and OWS on an unfounded allegation of violent behavior within the OWS ranks?
Frankly that chain could have belonged to anyone that passed through that subway station during the protest, a number of people which is likely in the thousands if not more. Let's say that 90% of those people had no connection to OWS, and if so, then the chance that OWS is involved is less than 10% considering the possibility of the use of throwdown (planted) evidence too.
DNA testing is not inexpensive, and there is no possible way that the NYPD can afford to DNA test every piece of jewelry found laying in the street or in the subway in the hope that some very small percentage can be tied to a previous crime. This "revelation" and the 3 & 1/2 month delay involved seem suspicious to me, especially suspicious in that OWS would get tried and found quite likely guilty in the headline on such flimsy evidence.
Romney used that chain at when he and his friends held down that guy down and Romney cut his hair off. I can play link the chain too!
I can't understand how somebody went to test DNA on one of many things believed to be handled OWS people, when I pretty much knew who broke into my house, and couldn't even get the police to fingerprint anything, even though they had prints on file of the person I believed to be the burglar. It's more important to do expensive DNA tests, on the hope of finding who is responsible for one of many of the chains and tapes stopping gates from being closed? Did they do this test on each and every one of the obsatacles. I wasn't with those people, but I am prone to grabbing something to keep from falling. If I had been there, it could have been my DNA, whether I had anything to do with the protest or not. But, the neat thing is that they still don't have a person of interest, to charge with either incedent. Sounds like they are paying a lot of money in a crap shoot type of investigation. It's possible that somebody just happened to be at both scenes. I'll admit the chance is small, but it can't be ruled out either. Old Timer-88224 is probably right. A plant is entirely possible. I hope they catch the real killer, but it begs the question; did they check each and every possible thing at the OWS scene? If not, I couldn't convict anybody on just those two DNA checks. But, if the people in law enforcement can do DNA tests on something like that, they could at least check for fingerprints when burglars have done their thing. You dust with powder, and put any print in the computer, and see if a match comes up. I hate to say this, but somebody has an agenda, and they are willing to do anything, to achieve their goal.
Mark o; when my Debit card was copied I found a store that had the crooks on tape - the cops never investigated because my bank refunded my money. Who are cops getting their instructions from - what a screwed up country.
We should be collecting the virtual, printed, databased and traceable DNA littering the 2008 Wall Street Crash crime scene (and of all parties concerned). Instead we are collecting the biological DNA of the few Occupy protesters left! Disconcerting, creepy and for me at least something smelly enough to give me pause. How is it that the good people who actively protest the legalized crimminality of the Banks (with a capital B), Wall Street and multinationals are not only made full-out criminals by the authorities but then in turn the powers to be devote resources to having them "tagged"! Funny, you can poison people for profit, send their jobs overseas and destroy their savings (by way of deregulation) and you not only go free but you are allowed to continue your crime spree all the while the people who call them out are now of some concern!
I agree, this is the bigger story. What is going on?
DNA IS being collected from newborns.......
Many parents don't realize their baby's DNA is being stored in a government lab, but sometimes when they find out, as the Browns did, they take action. Parents in Texas, and Minnesota have filed lawsuits, and these parents' concerns are sparking a new debate about whether it's appropriate for a baby's genetic blueprint to be in the government's possession
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-04/health/baby.dna.government_1_genetic-testing-dna-samples-genetic-diseases?_s=PM:HEALTH
Appears to be a smear tactic against the Occupy.
OWS is doing a good job of that all on their own, They do not need any help, There is more to this than just this short article, They have video tape of the individuals from OWS chaining and taping the gates and turnstiles, The OWS had masks on but the chain had DNA from one of them and it is a match to the DNA in the murder case, While this does not specifically taint the OWS it does indicate that one of those involved in the incident with the chain has a DNA match to that of DNA in the murder case.
Fred the puppy, who phuckdd up you are. But remember, spray the gas on yourself first, ok? You must be a neo-con Racist, wall street idiot. Are you sure you're not Mitt Romney?
The Occupy people are animals.
earthgirl, look. I'm poor too. I feel that I deserve what I work for and nothing more. How many OWS @!$%#s am I helping to support I wonder.
This is not a smear campaign. This is dialogue. But you OWS people just want a free hand out and are working very hard at that instead of a job. Now that pisses me off.
Get a job and quit milking the system. Maybe then you freeloaders will understand. This crap is why I will never be a Democrat.
Did the cops touch the chains?
Or the guy working at the store that sold the chains... It's just weird that they were taking DNA samples from those chains at all.
I think there's as many on the right as the left angered by the banks, bailouts and shenanigans that banks and financial institutions on wall street have been involved with the last few years. Just because we don't protest doesn't mean we aren't aware, mostly we're just too busy.
Larry, your point is well taken, but if you continue to vote Republican you are colluding with everything the right has done even if you don't agree with some of it.
lemur lady,
Larry is correct, but if you vote for the Democrats you are also colluding with everything ther Left has done.
Just because we don't protest doesn't mean we aren't aware, mostly we're just too busy.
Or, like most Americans, too lazy when it comes to civic duty. Not busting you, personally, but the wisdom has long existed: the price of liberty is the eternal vigilance of The People.
9 out of 10 probably don't even grasp the concept anymore.
Regretfully, bipolar idiots, all.
Go to a major league baseball game, or a boxing event... go to the mall... go to the hallowed halls of Congress for cry sake. Criminals criminals everywhere. Occupy is no different, no better, no worse than any other large group of people.
Occupy is just another excuse to riot, vandalize and scream at people because OF YOUR OWN DOING your life isn't as good as someone who is financially stable after years of hard work.
This is the USA under Obama.
A lot of the protests were about big government, ever hear of the million big gulp march?
"This is the USA under Obama."
And it may soon be under Mitt, and it will be the same sht different day.
Don't throw reality at Laker Steve, NewStart...
It will give him a migraine.
Occupy brought us one of the greatest videos ever. Brainless drunk Andrew Breitbart screaming "STOP RAPING PEOPLE!! STOP KILLING PEOPLE!!" Funny stuff! I miss that pig.
Mr. Breitbart was right though. There was at least one murder and one rape at OWS in New York or don't you watch the news?
The vast majority of OWS were ordinary people tired of the crap. The far left smokes pot and protests whatever wrongs they see and represented only a small part but a part the press loves to photograph. I have less trouble with a few knuckleheads killing the grass in a park from their tents than i do with the far right which holds whites only christian rallys and cross burnings proclaiming their genetic superiority.
okay it's proven that ows is a union goon initiative. It's funded by the unions and soros. I don't know if anyone has dealt with unions before, but they are no stranger to breaking the law, attacking people, and murder. I'm surprised this is the first one reported.
Thanks, you're totally @!$%#ed up. Say hi to the Koch bros.
Al: you've been 'ignored,' but I thought you should know you heard only one side. Take a good look at the history of the union movement. And take a look why you only have to work 40 hrs/wk instead of 50 without getting overtime pay, or no paid vacation or holidays off, etc. etc. You people are so totally ignorant, which is why God put eardrums in place, so your brains don't fall out.
You are aware, of course, that a lot of Occupiers are professional people, docs and lawyers and nurses and teachers and mechanics and journalists and accountants and all kinds of people that are financially stable. But please, don't let the facts spoil your fun. Fox much?
It's all part of the control game, Wally. Government/media folks go out of their way to show all of the blithering idiots at protests. That way people will be less likely to take the issue seriously.
If you make the protesters look like buffoons, no one will want to join the cause no matter what it is. Gov./media have been doing this type of thing forever. Unfortunately, most americans are dumb enough to swallow it... hook, line and sinker.
Ya; They're the ones who don't want have to pay their student loans back.
2004? just find who killed the girl and stop dragging in ows for bull@!$%#. wake up people more negative press more bs to drag your eye away from the big picture. toss out some poor woman who is killed to get pity from your readers and then slam ows as murdering evil people. they should be ashamed that its 2012 and this girls death is still unsolved. well maybe if they didnt have so many police threatening and beating nonviolent protesters and working on real crimes this would already be solved.
But Steve, what they are fighting for is the same thing that you appear to have achieved. Knowing that if you continue to contribute to a company, that they will provide you with a means to support your family and be able to retire at a decent age and enjoy life.
You seem to have the luxury of being removed from the current situation and no apathy for what is going on. You don't have to look very far to see case after case, it seems never ending almost, some CEO of (insert name here) that just laid off hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of workers gets a 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100+ million dollar salary and options. Thats just the CEO, whats the owners profits?
Those lucky enough to have a job, havent seen their wages increase. Myself, I haven't had a raise since 2008, not a penny, despite working for a multibillion dollar corp., that hasn't stop some managements salaries increases over $70,000 per year though.
They are fighting against the unmitigated greed and uncaring destruction of a way of life by a select few.
You got a raise in 2008?!!!
I've been on ths job since 2005 and have had my pay cut 40%, then 5% then about another 20% of what was left. But things are looking up. i got a 3% raise just before New Years. Things are looking up, yes sir.
Maybe you suck at your job?
Yeah...lets get those Occupy people! All they do is sit around and do nothing to at least try and stop whats happening in this country. The nerve of those people. Don't they know that posting whiny little rants in forums does more good!? Dirty filthy hippies types! Go Occupiers!!!
Filthy hippies is right, take a bath and cut your hair if you want to be taken seriously.
Did I just enter the Twilight Zone? Is this 1967?
Imagine if you will: an obvious smear tactic... perpetrated by media outlets... more concerned with advertising revenue and perpetuating the status quo than reporting factual news stories... A conspiracy of sorts... a free ride on the subway too...
Yesterday I parked under a tree that a bird once perched upon while crapping on another car.
Occupy Wall Street all day all week!
Why not work instead ? How are you eating ?
If you are occupying, you aren't working, and someone else must be picking up the tab; Food stamps ?
Get a @!$%#ing job !!!
So, the city is using tax dollars to do DNA tests on occupy protest movements.... -_-
Have no fear I'm sure the tax dollars went to a privately owned testing company and the owner will be using the money to create jobs any minute...
OWS = Obama's Witless Stooges.
SGR = sour grape Republicans. See how stupid it looks?
dream on, moron.
GOP = Goons On Pills. See how stupid it looks?
So, occupiers are Obama's stooges. Occupy is against the bailouts that Obama supported, go figure, you're a damn genious Steve.
The DNA analyses were done by anthropologists who were exploring the hypothesis that Occupy protesters share common genetic traits with Neanderthals, hence the idea to test the chain links, since the chain links would have a blend of DNA from a group of Occupy protesters . . .
Doing a check with the criminal database was a secondary activity, but quite unexpectedly it garnered a match, and the rest is news . . .
So, instead of getting only the expected Neanderthal matches, the anthropologists also were able to connect the Occupy protesters to several heinous crimes, although at present only one such crime is being revealed to the public, really . . .
Really! :-o
@Baldenario, 'since the chain links would have a blend of DNA from a group of Occupy protesters . . .';
does that prove it was a plant, a set-up? Maybe that was the chain the cops used to beat and round up the protesters, you think?
The Occupy Movement has been linked to more crime than Eric Holder!
Why was the Government doing the DNA analysis to begin with? Are we really supposed to believe they expended the resources necessary to perform a DNA analysis simply to track down someone who taped a turnstile open?
The match itself may or may not prove to be useful - but still - why was the Government doing the analysis - in a subway no less where there are likely tens of thousands of DNA sources splattered all over the walls and floors.
Sounds pretty generalized. Needle in the haystack. And why haven't they taken the person of interest's dna?
That is Exactly, what I wonder. It would ether tie him in. Or clear him.
I was wondering the same thing.
Bingo
Hey, you Occupy people. I am sure many of your know who did this. Just remember - you could be next and there may have been others in between. Do the right thing and turn him in. This is not a political thing - it was cold blooded murder........
You are kidding, right? Or did you just glance at part of the headline and decide to give us your educated opinion?
Kathy, he could be your neighbor. You'd better turn him in!
Soooooo.......that person went through the subway station and.......?
Thank goodness Bush passed the P.A.T.R.I.O.T.A.C.T. that allowed this testing.
They should check for Bush's chains in Iraq.
I don't see Obama doing anything to stop it.
its PROOF that the "occupiers" are criminials !!!!!
No, it isn't. It's an indication that one of the 10,000 or so people that went through that subway station that day left DNA on a chain. There is absolutly NOTHING to connect any "occupiers" to the murder.
The headline is sensationalistic yellow journalism at best.
So did it really have anything to do with occupy wall street? No evidence, just repeated attempts to associate a crime that occurred before Occupy existed and an act of Vandalism in another blatant attempt to criminalize the members of a legal protest. And you morons that have posted prior to this fell for it... probably just what the author wanted... witless gomers willing to buy into anything negative about Obama and OWS.
The real OWS doesn't promote violence or vandalism, and would never condone the act. That is usually done by anarchists and dumb-asses trying to make the OWS look bad. The vandalism was probably done by off duty NYPD cops, since they are known to rape and murder other citizens in NYC.
And beyond that--the story ensconses deeply an admission that there is no evidence:
"There's no immediate evidence that the DNA belongs to the Occupy Wall Street protesters who chained open the gates."
Also, "Investigators recovered her pink CD player in the woods just yards from her body."
So what. It tells us nothing. The CD player could easily have been accessed from a vantage point that obscured the crime scene to an INNOCENT bystander who happened to look down and see a highly visible PINK cd player in the street. They very well may have dropped it once they saw a body yards away...maybe the person was homeless. WHO KNOWS. NO one, yet. Total LIES and CASUISTRY to smear the OWS movement. Ridiculous. Nonsense.
Read critically people, they are feeding you lies. It's amazing what you will find out when you read--like the stings that are labeled food are really NOT food, but food-like products. READ, READ, READ and understand that this is your life and ours, too. We are on the same team.
I knew the type of comments there'd be when I first started reading this story. Probably most that post here have bashed the bailouts or the 10's of millions the CEO's have received in pay just a few years after we spent hundreds of billions to bail them out but they'll rant on these boards and mock those willing to actually do more.
I find it likely that people are sick of the Occupy Wall Street folks and made up some crackpot story to try to turn the public against them. It's probably some nutter who showed up at one of their protests and has nothing to do with the group. People will use an excuse to trash any group or person they don't like. I call shenanigans on this story.
It figures seeing the type of characters who joined the anarchists and dregs that were part of this occupy movement.
"There's no immediate evidence that the DNA belongs to the Occupy Wall Street protesters who chained open the gates."
NO connection. Pure coincidence. Probably a homeless person. Did they take pictures of everyone that touched the chain and everyone that touched the cd player? And besides that, the cd player was found "just yards from her body" --tells us NOTHING & also a meandering homeless person's opportunity to examine a cd player. It may have been approachable from a place where the body wasn't yet visible and then discarded upon seeing the body--WHO KNOWS. I'm not even close to convinced. Totally reaching and trying to justify smearing the Occupy Movement. LIES and CASUISTRY.
Sounds planted to me~
Quit picking on the homeless.
what a remarkable discovery, some murderous scum hiding among the socialists of the OWS idiots. mouth breathers everyone.
You idiot, sounds like a typical spin attack on ows folks by zit united scum.