myspellcheckerisbroken,

That's such an ignorant statement to make , and not really funny at all .

. Nice to be a liberal and being able to party 7 days a week on my taxes

Yes El Whapo, because gun toting liberals are SO COMMON in Alabama.

Brilliant.

william you ever been to bama? every one carrys a gun it isnt party specific

El Whapo -

Please refrain from labeling people "ignorant" in a sentence that contains more than two grammatical errors, as it reflects poorly upon you and the nation as a whole.

America, we need better funding for public education. The people posting on this site cannot even spew their vitriolic hate in a concise and clearly understood manner.

Mr. Thanatos, there is a big difference between ignorant and stupid. I'd say El Whapo is obviously the latter.

A gun toting liberal in Alabama is more rare than a full set of teeth in an educated mouth.

I read not too long ago that Tennessee, another red state, was pushing to lift the law banning concealed hand guns in bars. They have also pushed for legislation that would lift all license requirements for handguns. Lets see: no permits required to conceal a handgun in a late night bar - what else could possibly go wrong? Sometimes I wonder what is wrong with this country - most days actually.

El Whapo: A liberal in Alabama? Total nonsense.

Life is so cheap now and days. Boom dead, boom dead... Thank you NRA.

Don't really care to engage in any conversations concerning liberal vs conservative or NRA vs anti-gun crowd, but does anyone really want to openly discuss exactly what "type of persons" are involved with this act?????? Are we all afraid to discuss this openly or what??? I know you are all thinking it anyway.

Kevin,

Agreed. Not off the political & NRA. What kind of people are involved in this act? Hey, it's Alabama. Nothing else needs to be said.

It's Tuscaloosa. No Humans Involved. Want to find your perp? Look for an Auburn fan.

Please, can we get the NRA to sponsor a bus trip to Toronto for these people so they can learn to shoot?

Ozzie, here in the deep south, the reason we conceal carry is for protection. From idiots. You evidently haven't been down here because it's not a gun crazy culture. Every single state and city has areas where the violence is higher than most other areas. You can't just blanket a region with one statement.

Being from Alabama I have no guns, have all of my teeth, believe global warming is mostly man made, am not the product of a shallow gene pool and voted liberal last election although I am an independent. Yes, I am rare but not as rare as the old stereo types would have non-southerners believe.

This is more examples of people not controlling themselves and acting upon violent thoughts. If it wasn't a firearm it would be a club, baseball bat, knife, rock, tree branch etc.

When did 'control yourself' get thrown out the window? Maybe it was from the politically correct BS and the liberals who preach 'anything is ok....' ??

Dogma Bites

Being from Alabama I have no guns, have all of my teeth, believe global warming is mostly man made, am not the product of a shallow gene pool and voted liberal last election although I am an independent. Yes, I am rare but not as rare as the old stereo types would have non-southerners believe.

You're right, Dogma...but in my defense, I did say half the state. ;)

This is more examples of people not controlling themselves and acting upon violent thoughts. If it wasn't a firearm it would be a club, baseball bat, knife, rock, tree branch etc.

Oh certainly, Phil! I always carry a tree branch into a bar. You never know when you might have to defend yourself from some guy with a rock. Sheesh.

Hey, El Whapo... It's Tuscaloosa. A college town. You know Roll Tide! The bars stay busy every night of the week due to the large number of college students there. I bet you find full bars every night of the week in all college towns. It has nothing to do with Conservative vs. Liberal, Red State vs. Blue State, and certainly not welfare if these kids can afford to go to Alabama.

I'm always amused at how people come out of the woodwork when there's a rare shooting at a bar in some southern/red state (and I do mean rare) and then pour on the ignorant hate. Amazingly, they sit back and say nothing when there's the daily shooting carnage going on in Chicago or occasional hip-hop related shooting. Nary a peep from them when those happen.

yata yata yata guns...yata yata yata.....guns.....yata yata yata........ guns....... guns are like cell phones, not going away.........get over it......

myspellcheckerisbroken

There is more broken on you than your spell checker!

El Whapo...

How did you just come to the conclusion that these were "liberals partying on your tax payor dollar who probably had no jobs to go to the next morning"? You commented here at 8:19AM EDT, which means maybe you work an afternoon shift too, or were up at 5:00am on the Pacific Standard Time, or commented on your way to work at 7:19AM from the Midwest or do not have a "job to be at in the morning either" as you accuse these people of. Or better yet, your sitting at your desk but instead of doing your job, your blogging from work. And what in the report makes you think they were liberals. You mean conservatives don't go out after work, meet up with friends for a drink, stay up late, and become VICTIMS of shootings? And just incase you want to ask me why I'm on the computer commenting at 8:33am, my time, it's because I don't report to work until 1:30pm PST and get off until 10pm or so. There have been times that my group of co-workers have gone out after work to grab something to eat and a few of them have a beer. What makes you so sure these people did not do the same thing? Oh...I get it, it was because it was Alabama...right??

Alcohol and guns, totally legal and lethal, a beloved part of American culture. God bless the NRA and the booze industry.

Lets see: no permits required to conceal a handgun in a late night bar - what else could possibly go wrong?

On the plus side, it would sure cut down on drunk driving!

Criminals don't obey gun laws to begin with. They ignore them.

We want better gun laws to stop normal people from becoming criminal by the misuse of said firearms. Your rant is old and tired. Of course criminals will always find guns as long as we are lax in letting them get their hands on them as we are now. Lets give everone a gun to settle arguments that used to be just a fist fight. Contrary to you beliefs there are non criminal elements in our society who have no business with a firearm. BTW how does it feel to be a shill for the firearms indutry which is all the NRA is anymore.

I like the "Chicago has strict gun laws, look what happens there" argument. Because it is totally impossible for anyone to drive a few miles outside the city and get a gun.

I thought liberals wanted to take guns away? Why would liberals be going around using them on other people? You don't really think the people who are shooting others in Chicago are all that politically active do you?

I'm sick of people assuming a person is a conservative because they live in a red state and a liberal in a blue state. I'm so happy to live in the great state of Illinois (hope you feel my sarcasm). My whole life all we ever heard was vote democrat, democrat, democrat. We must support the unions. You know, one of those good old fashioned Catholic families that had 13 kids. Now as my 4 brothers and 3 sisters have all grown up, there is only one democrat; must support the union because he's a union worker. He hates everything the democratic party stands for but must support the union.

And we were poor as sh$t. My dad left when my oldest sister was 13 and my youngest brother was two weeks old. What an @!$%#. My mom never took one single handout, never. Made her sick to go the meat market and see someone pull up in a Cadillac and buy steaks with food stamps. All she could afford was hamburger. Thank God she made good spaghetti because we ate it 3 times a week. Point is, people need to get off their fat asses and get a job. We did at a young age and my two oldest started working at my brothers bar when they were 11/9 on days off school and in the summer. Continue to work for him today. It's called work ethic, and people don't have it today.

As far as guns go, we have 2. One is at home and one is in my husband's car. He has a second job serving papers. Some of the places are pretty seedy in the St. Louis area. Oh yes, the papers he serves are for the lazy asses who live in Section 8 and have to pay just that little bit of rent and still don't pay it. The paper are eviction papers. Interestingly enough, I'm pretty sure they are all Decomcrats that live in a Red State.

Responsibility., vb A group of people in a bar armed with a handgun, as in everyone shooting at everything .

Sadly, it seems that the rural south is becoming a more violent place than city ghettos.

Perhaps it is just the ignorant element of the south and they have started to embrace the hip-hop and ghetto life style.

Eutwerp, the rural south would have to have at least one murder per day for the rest of the year to even come CLOSE to the city ghettos summer tally. And you know it.

Why are automatic and semi-automatic weapons even legal?

way up there some girl called sandtrich said the NRA is just a shill for the gun manufacturers.

she has to be one of the most mislead sheeple here.

The NRA backs the bill of rights, yes they do focus alot on the 2nd amendment but, the entire bill of rights. it is the misguided liberal that cannot see that.

of course the liberal doesn't care about the bill of rights, just the socialistic utopia they want to force of the freedom loving public.

@Common Sense,

You said;

Why are automatic and semi-automatic weapons even legal?

Well,.......it takes Common Sense to use them correctly which we all hope anyone would do. Any questions?

On another note, have you ever even shot a BB gun in your life?

JKfromPa

AND, gotta love the Teabaggers on Social Security b!tching about socialism (which they clearly know nothing about!)

I hope you realize that in order to collect S.security you have to pay into it by actually working making your statement having as much sense as liberals breeding

Perhaps it is just the ignorant element of the south and they have started to embrace the hip-hop and ghetto life style.

Now that's funny. It couldn't possibly be because of the ridiculous, right to conceal carry everywhere, new laws, could it? Nah -- that ain't it!

Eutwerp, the rural south would have to have at least one murder per day for the rest of the year to even come CLOSE to the city ghettos summer tally. And you know it.

Actually, crime is down in the cities. On the other hand, red states have reported huge increases in violent crime. So you're wrong. And you're reported for name-calling.

Creek Dog...You hit it on the head man!!!

Honestly, which city would you feel safer walking through unarmed, Tuscaloosa, Chicago, or Detroit?

Punisher, it say a lot about a person when they can't even spell 'Yada yada yada" right.

UN-commonsence,

technically double action revolvers are semi-auto.

the question is why are any weapons regulated. the point of the second is to allow the citizenry to be able to arm themselves for the protection of the country and constitution. the 2nd is the MOST regulated amendment of the entire bill of rights.

The American citizen should, by the very simple words of the 2nd amendment, have access to machine guns, tanks, missles and anything else that is available to the military to defend the country and constitution.

it was the NORTH, after the civil war that began the majority of gun control, banning they're possesion of firearms by blacks, even after they fought for the north.

the liberal ideal that no one should be able to deffend themselves is just an open opportunity for criminals to run rampant.

I carry a firearm, because a cop is too heavy and when seconds count the cops are only minutes away.

I see the NRA shills are sitting this one out. Me? I'm sick of the NRA and other imaginary human beings, (corporations), having a voice in our government.

Those dumb bastards would never vote for a liberal. That would take some sort of brain matter which those idiots...like you..do not have.

Ahhh, yes; because nothing says "brain matter" like a liberal, huh? Get over yourself. There are plenty of morons on both sides. It takes more than just voting or leaning to a side to have brains. I guess if they're not liberal, you're not going to listen anyway. Well done.

A lot of the problems in the south stem from all the Yankee's, that keep sending their problem children down to live with aunts, uncles and grandparents. They bring their thug gangster mentality into our neighborhoods and infect our youth and young adults with bad intentions. I know in my area that we have several gangs because of this reason and it has turned a quiet rural town into one that feels unsafe, where you don't even want to let your kids go play in a neighborhood that you once roamed freely without fear. Now we have all these thugs walking the streets at all times of the day and night breaking into cars and houses and that is why you have to carry a gun in the south anymore.

"f hill

"william you ever been to bama? every one carrys a gun it isnt party specific"

I'd critique your grade-school level illiteracy, but you'd probably shoot me. Death (of others than gun-nuts) is preferable to education.

Tucker123, I think it is funny that you get pretty irate when idiots on this board spew their vemon about something close to you, then you turn around and do the same with your narrow-minded hatred views toward another segment of people. I am sure your dear husband serve papers to many dead-beat white people living in nice houses.

Yes, those thousands of foodstamp recipients driving Cadillacs are a bane on society!

"redbloodedAZn8v

". . . . the question is why are any weapons regulated."

To protect public safety. In other words, to protect the majority against the irresponsible, violent minority who swallow anti-American propaganda and claim that makes them "patrits". See Shays' and Whiskey rebellions for how the Founders squashed that delusion.

"the point of the second is to allow the citizenry to be able to arm themselves for the protection of the country and constitution."

The purpose of the Second Amendment is to protect the states' -- "state" is GOV'T -- right to keep their militia, which militia is nonetheless well regulated by Congress, as expressly stipulated in the Constitution. See Art. I., SS. 8., C. 15 and 16.

Moreover, the militia is a military force, therefore is heavily regulated to prevent armed overthrow of gov't.

Still further: in order to be a member of the militia, one must enlist, or be drafted, as per state laws.

"the 2nd is the MOST regulated amendment of the entire bill of rights."

It's safe to ask you to substantiate that claim because you don't know what you're talking about. The purpose of the militia, which has always been an arm of gov't, is to ensure the stability of gov't and laws against those who would take the "law" into their own hands based upon anti-American propaganda.

jnagarya,

the second amendment to the constitution of the United states of America IS the most regulated amendment in the Bill of Rights, and you have pointed out some of the regulations yourself.

originally the 2nd was written to allow ordinary citizens to own arms so that the government did not have to arm everyone in the event of need. IN FACT the weapons used by the "militia" were of better grade and quality than military issue at the time.

all of your argument centers on the first part of the wording of the 2nd, yet you omit the MOST IMPORTANT part: "the right of the people shall not be infringed". the key word is PEOPLE, this means the citizens, this means the average person, this means you and me.

It also means that every regulation and law that limits the arms in type and style is a violation of the bill of rights. it means that you no longer have the right to own weapons to defend yourself and your family against a tyranical government. in the days when it was written the tyranical government WAS our own, it was the oppressive british government.

through the years, our government has managed to reduce and limit the ability of our own citizenry to defend itself from tyranical government like the one we have now. the vocal minority has declared that everyone wants and should be controlled by the government. they cling to the parts of the Bill of Rights that suit their purpose, all the while not realizing the peril those rights are in because they want to destroy the others.

the ignorance of the liberal and the vocal minority will be and is the downfall of this nation. they elected a putz for a leader that has known ties to terrorists and anti-Americans and they yelled "hooray" when he spoke these words in 2008 in chicago durring a campaign speach: "this is the greatest country in the world, help me change that".

do your own research, when the 2nd amendment was written there were no restrictions to the arms allowed and now there is so many that the citizens in the most violent cities in this country CANNOT have the weapons to defend themselves against the criminal element let alone the government that WANTS the criminal to run rampant over the law abiding.

That's one scary looking redneck. Bunga, bunga, indeed.

First we need to control the guns for the police here in USA, imagine all the people going to UK next week, and they are not going to see any police shootings like here every day,. because the police do not walk around with guns--but I know, USA can not understand, here we have "real freedom by the gun", and yet police here shoot and kill about 10 times more per million than in EU.! No other western country shoot and kill the public like here!

I read this thread this morning before leaving for work. And the hate mongers were going at it, black people this and black people that. Well now we get a pic and SURPRISE!!!!!!! It's a crazy looking WHITE guy!!! I am so Shocked ... NOT! Get it through your heads, all races have NUTJOBS and evil criminals. WE as the rest of the human race need to be aware and be ready for THEM, because they are the ones that will kill you, not the black,white, asian,hispanic,philippine,mongolian,indian, purple,green,orange or blue person that lives down the street and is just trying to make a living and have a decent LIFE!!!!

Hey idiot anti gun baffoons. Did I not just read in this article that this might be a biker gang beef. Now tell me, IF it is, how is any gun law going to stop a biker gang from getting an ak, ar, etc. You guys love to jump on anything to spout your ignorant views. I am sure a no gun policy would have stopped a biker gang from obtaining a rifle. Yep, it really shows why this country is screwed when the liberals open their mouths.

and the black guy that appointed the black guy to sell cartels guns and got the white guy killed on purpose and refuses to admit it because the first black guy gives him an out by issuing an "zecu-tib oh-da".

Even tho I don't like the NRA, this is't their fault.

Like many on here have said...it's RESPONSIBILITY. If this guy didn't have a gun, he probably would have been carrying a knife, or a ball bat...he wanted to hurt someone and he would have come prepared.

If you buy a gun without learning how to use it, take care of it, be safety conscious with it, and make sure NO ONE can get to it when you leave it in the house, YOU are the dumbass everyone makes fun of.

Scary!!!!

i ain't skeerd...

It has nothing to do with the NRA or anything political at all. The guy was a whack job. Probably watched Sons of Anarchy every week. They think it may have been biker related as well. What surprises me is that no one got a shot off at this guy.

It is rare here in the South that when someone starts shooting everyone usually shoots back. Maybe because it was a college town everyone left their guns in the car/truck. We do not have the killing like you do in the cities where people are gunned down and no suspects to be found. If it happens here in the South we usually know who it was that killed them and why. How many thugs in Chicago or New York turn themselves in after something like this. It is not like he did a drive by. He went after his victims for a reason it seems. I also wonder why that many people were injured and not killed? I think he meant to just wound the ones in the way as he went after his main target. Just saying.

Pretty sure you can carry in a bar you just can't consume alcohol.

hey bundgaard,

news flash; the police in the UK have been carrying guns for a few years now, ever since they completely out lawed firearms for their free citizens.

People carrying guns in bars is one of the worst ideas ever. After getting a snootful, most drunken idiots would have no problem shooting someone else for the slightest perceived insult. It happens all the time in NYC, illegal own and carry or not.

It would have stopped after one or two...long enough for someone to get their gun out and take out the shooter

Really, what if the shooter is twice as fast and accurate as you are???

I love the posters that end with "duh", invariably they are the most self-deluded and one-sided thinkers on the vine.

If there had been a licensed carrier in the bar, how many shots would this thug have gotten off before he gto a face full of his own medicine?

1) There are many surveillance photos of the alleged shooter, he appears to be holding an "assault style" rifle with perhaps a large magazine.

2) There was a multiple shoooting at an IHOP in Carson City a while back with a similar situation.

3) A "licensed carrier" was outside with his gun while the shooter exited the IHOP still firing.

4) The "licensed carrier" did not fire instead he went for cover saying afterwards "He was too scared and not ready to engage such firepower" (paraphrasing)

5) There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between simply owning a gun and being able to use it effectively in an actual firefight.

Please feel free to Google anything I just posted to prove it's veracity.

I don't think shooters think much before they shoot...

The argument that if everyone in the bar was armed the shooter would not draw a gun. I just don't buy it. On the other hand, if everyone pulled out their own weapon during a bar fight, what would happen? I really doubt there would be fewer gun deaths. Probably more, not less.

I can't believe that not one person was killed!

I love the logic of the gun culture. More guns mean less shooting. Yeah, right. No flaws in that logic. Because everybody who is inclined to commit murder is going to think logically and rationally. "Gee, I want to pull out my gun and shoot a bunch of people, but no, I can't do that because somebody else might have a gun and shoot me." The thought that the police will be after you, that they will shoot you, or arrest you, that you will get the death penalty, or life in prison: none of that is a deterrent, but the thought that there might be somebody else with a gun around is. No arguing with that kind of thinking.

Good point WilliamOfRites. There was a campus shooting at Northern Illinois University just a year or so back where people were killed by a lone gunman. There were at least 3 people inside the auditorium where the shooting occurred that were carying weapons. They also froze, not being law enforcement. This concept that if everyone was carrying we would all be safe is a false sense of security. It certainly would not make me feel any safer.

So let me get this straight- the solution to the problem posed by mixing guns and alcohol is to give more inebriated people guns? Right...

If there had been a licensed carrier in the bar, how many shots would this thug have gotten off before he gto a face full of his own medicine?

Do you realize that you're advocating a shootout? I'm not being facetious. If you're in a crowded room and a shot is fired, do you have some sort of x-ray vision to see the shooter through, well, everybody in between? Let's say you do. The room is in a fumbled panic, and somehow you'll be able to aim steadily and hit your target while conveniently avoiding everybody in between because you're such an amazing shot?

Then add in several other licensed carriers who will immediately respond to a fire-cracker-like sound by shooting their favorite target. Of course, as humans we never make mistakes, so licensed carrier #1 won't mistake licensed carrier #2 when #2 takes out his gun and starts firing into a crowd with perfect accuracy at who he knows to be the shooter because of his x-ray vision.

Legally, everybody is off the hook, so long as Stand Your Ground applies in the state. That means if your brother is shot by some vigilante with horrifically poor judgement when he goes to a bar then it's though luck. Mr. Vigilante had every reason to pull out his gun at .07 and defend the public from some "maniac."

This kind of thinking gives responsible gun owners a bad name. The ones who are competent and responsible, and I mean *actually* responsible, are cognizant that a gun can be indispensable for legitimate self-defense but that the idea of zealous vigilantes with guns racing in to play the hero is a horrific idea.

Lets talk the Gifford's shooting, in Arizona any wingnut can carry a loaded gun without a license, Where were all these "brave" macho gun owners when all those people were getting shot? It took an unarmed woman to tackle the shooter while he was reloading, the nearest "brave" gun owner was hiding in a convenience store getting a pack of smokes.I live in a redneck hell hole where anyone can carry a loaded gun, the three times I have had a gun pulled on me was by a drunk "upstanding" "responsible" gun owner who got jealous when his wife or girlfriend started flirting after a few shots of tequila. Guns make it too easy for SMALL, INSECURE "MEN" to feel tough, in fact those are the only people I know who feel the need to carry a gun all the time, those spineless little boys who are afraid of their own shadow.

govtemploye: You stated, " currently, only the criminals have guns." Are you suggesting that all gun owners are criminals? Watch your back, the NRA will be hunting for you.

If people were allowed to carry guns in that bar, the shooter would have thought twice about opening fire among a group of people with guns themselves. Also, it wouldn't have turned into a shooting "spree." It would have stopped after one or two...long enough for someone to get their gun out and take out the shooter. If you outlaw guns, the only people with guns will be outlaws...duh.

wow, just wow. This Rambo complex is ridiculous. If more people had guns in bars, we'd have more shootings in bars and a LOT more innocent bystanders. Period, end of discussion.

yeah...just think how many people would have been shot if 17 patrons all pulled out guns and started shooting the place up. What makes anyone think arming people makes the world safer?

Noah R:

In your entire response, I think you forgot what is perhaps the most frightening aspect of your shootout scenario: Every single person who is engaging in that crossfire would be under the influence of alcohol, and would have to exercise perfect judgement and perfect aim while at least a little buzzed, if not outright drunk.

Yeah, that's gonna end well.

Thank goodness we carry guns for self protection. And after everyone shoots everyone else protecting themselves who is left?

The deal is people, firearms are not legally allowed in bars. Carrying one into a bar is a crime. Most average law abiding citizens aren't going to carry into a bar.

Most people who are armed freeze because they either don't have the experience, or, they know that their own life must be directly in danger first and that drawing and firing at the other shooter make them a criminal too if not in immediate danger. The lawyers have made sure that the only situation justifiable for firing on someone is immediate personal harm. Concealed carry people aren't here to protect anyone but themselves as a consequence. The same is true of law enforcement, they cannot fire on anyone unless their life is directly in danger.

The gun control people DO have it their way, if you do carry a firearm, the responsibility is enormous and consequences of firing or even brandishing are severe.

Who cares, if you are in a bar on a Monday night.....what did you expect the singing nuns?

This country sure produces more than its share of useless idiots! Yup, proud to be..........

Ah yes, the Archie Bunker idea to thwart airplane hijackings. Arm EVERYONE on the plane, so if there are one or two troublemakers on board the good guys will have them hopelessly outnumbered.

Never Stop,

"wants to allow guns in Churches, Bars, Universities, Hospitals, Banks, Day Care Centers"

You can add Public Schools to that list also.

I'm not going to blame the NRA but not long before the shooting here in Chardon on 2/27/2012 politicians in Columbus, Ohio were discussing allowing concealed carry permits to include local schools. As reported via numerous media outlets not long after the incident. Due to the silence on the matter since I guess they gave up though.

Here in Ohio guns are allowed in bars though if you carry one you must promise to drink only kool aid the entire evening. Before anyone breaks out the flamethrower. For the record I don't mind guns at all (rather like them actually) I just don't like some of the idiots that carry them. Both legally or illegally heck I've known cops that I wouldn't trust with a gun (sadly one is my brother in law - great guy otherwise though)

Oh I meant to also state that it seems to me that Guns are to Alchohol like an ARC Welder is to a bathtub full of water. That is: they both are somewhat less than wise.

I just had a thought???? All the people that say shoot back all have ESP and knows the exact second that some nut is going to pull out his/her gun and start shooting. They are sure they will stop the shooter, never mind that they could be the first victim and/or casualty???? Only the shooter knows who he is going to shoot and who will be his first victim. I've actually heard of situations where shootings become so intense that armed individuals forget they are armed, and are taking cover faster than the unarmed.

Very true phil 8) I have taken classes and one day was mostly about the ramifications of Using force 8)...

This situation the shooter was from the outside not from the bar and he is lugging what looks like an AK definitely not something you want to engage unless he is coming right at you then you have no choice 8(... 2 or 3 center mass and that should do it hopefully 8)

All these posts about NRA or Liberal or Conservative geez what a bunch horse @!$%# let's call this story for what it is an @!$%# who needs to be put down and fast.

Guns are here to stay so arguing with viners about the validity is lame and useless 8)

@ phil and Big Al, I couldn't have said it any better. Thumbs up!!

A man armed with a "military style assault rifle" shot 17 people. Sounds reasonable to me. A military style assault rifle is designed and manufactured specifically to shoot people...not birds, clay targets, bunny rabbits or moose. Since our society endorses the manufacture and private purchase of military style assault rifles, it obviously approves of someone using them as they were intended.

Sgt. Pepper:

What makes anyone think arming people makes the world safer?

I don't know, go ask the Founding Fathers, they seemed to think it was a pretty good idea.

If we can't be assured of a 100% positive outcome every time there might be a chance to stop someone, then we shouldn't even have the chance to do anything because someone might get hurt, right?

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Some on here have apparently argued that in some situations, where a licenced carrier had gun but chose not to use it for whatever reason; being outguned with a stronger weapon, not wanting to risk harming someone themselves because maybe they didn't have a clear shot, or just being too scared...

NONE of those reasons are valid for saying that someone still should not have the right to keep and bear arms. As I said, expecting perfection in every situtation is unrealistic.

A gunman with a military-style assault rifle fired at least 11 shots into the bar in the city's Temerson Square.

What would an un-military-style assault rifle look like?

Our Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms in a MILITIA. Are you in a Militia? Threats against the government are illegal. Remember Waco? We have the Armed Forces which will be utilized against all armed militias to protect the current Government.

There can be no Revolution in America with Armed Citizens in Militias. Our Tax Paid Armed forces will see to that. You depend on these same people to protect our freedom, from ANY, domestic or Foreign terrorists including American Militia.

When our Founding Fathers wrote the Declaration of independence it was specifically worded to protect us from the King of England and establish our right to use weapons if it became necessary. Gun totters seem to think this gives them the right to own guns. It allows us to be armed against a aggressor in a Militia, not to tote around and protect ourselves from ourselves. We have misconstrued this just as we use the Bible and degrade and pronounce others unfit.

We complain about the Muslims, while we do the same thing to each other.

We are a sad people, we have forgotten where we came from.

I am 53 years old and have not ever required a gun to protect myself. I used to sell guns, but after seeing the crazies who I had to sell to after a clean background check I just did not want them to get their weapons from me. If you feel you need a gun to protect yourself, perhaps you need to see a shrink or get off the meth.

dlstephenson: Wrong. The second amendment says:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The government did not issue guns to the militia. The people provided their own. In order for the people to provide them, they had to OWN them and the use and carry of such weapons was not limited to only the functions of the militia. The militia was made up of every able bodied man in the community.

If the Founding Fathers had meant for only the militia to have guns, they would have said "the right of the militial to keep and bear arms"....they didn't say that. They said "the people", and they said it because they knew an unarmed populace was a sitting duck in the new republic

Beyond that, the supreme court has upheld the right of the people for over 200 years. According to your logic, I guess those incorrect decisions over the years were because all of those courts were misreading what it says.

If you tried to tell the people of the late 1700's in America that the government would tell them they couldn't own a weapon unless they were in a militia, they would have laughed in your face. And then maybe pointed their gun at you daring you to take it if you could.

Just another law abiding gun owner who got tired of abiding.

Conservativerepublican - If you'd stop trying to torture the second amendment into saying what you want and read a bit about what was going on, you'd find out that the army had a tough time getting guns and ammo for its soldiers. You know, states rights and all. In fact, they had to get a whole lot of powder and thousands of muskets from the french, who probably won the war for us.

The reason they wanted people having "arms" is that they wanted soldier to bring their own the next time the brits came knocking on the door. The absolutely did NOT want the people to have arms in order to mess around with the government, which was them. In fact, the first time some folks in PA decided to get rambunctious over a tax, DADDY GEORGE himself got down off his Prexy chair and marched an army right out there and squashed those rowdy fellows like so many geckos.

The second amendment existed to assist the Army in obtaining arms. Not to assist the people in rebelling against any government -- but for the brits, of couirse.

BTW, since "arms" is not defined in the 2nd amenment, a congress of men not mice could define it however they thought fit. But when you're hiding in your hole from the NRA, you can't do much of anything.

You know what DADDY GEORGE would do to the NRA? Send out the army to walk on their faces. (Unless they gave him some campaign money; that would put them on the side of the angels.)

JimD:

The absolutely did NOT want the people to have arms in order to mess around with the government, which was them

Absolutely wrong. The Founding Fathers were well aware that the government they were setting up could be corrupted as well. They had no delusions that there was some implied guarantee that the government they were forming would always perform as they intended.

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of
Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to
alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation
on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem
most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

And then:

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same
Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their
right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards
for their future security.

Jefferson fully meant that these principles were to apply to our own government as well.

The Founding Fathers were not perfect, but they also were not so arrogant and hypocritical as to assume that the foundation they laid only meant some other government, but not ours.

The Founding Fathers were very specific in their choice of words. If they had meant for the 2nd amendment to apply only to the militia, then they would have said the right of the militia to keep and bear arms.

But that's NOT what they said. They said the right of the people will NOT be infringed.

I don't have to torture the second amendment into saying something I want it to be. I just read what it says and take the word of the Founding Fathers that said the people to mean just that.

For 200 years the Supreme Court has backed this up, regardless of what you believe. And based on that, I'd say it was you who is trying to twist the second amendment into meaning something other than what it actually says.

The right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed.

ConservativeNotRepublican yes everyone else is wrong and you're right. Typical right wing nut job. I'll tell you what the founding fathers did not intend. Wack jobs like you to own guns so they can get drunk on Sunday night and shoot there in-laws. Trying to make up for something with the gun obsession?

jjgrats: Yeah, I guess you're correct. I'm wrong...and so are all of the Supreme Court decisions handed down over the last 200 years taking my position. But hey, if we only had Constitutional scholars like you on the court, everything would be great, and the only civilians who would have guns would be the criminals.

Liberals then wonder why I call them anti American. Gee, maybe it's because when they disagree with the Constitution, they don't try and change it by the methods prescribed in it, they just ignore it or make up new parts all together.

I do not exist to serve the state. America is not the damn Federal Government. The second amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed.

Sorry, you're just going to have to keep dealing with that fact regardless of how much you might disagree. If you don't want to own a gun, then don't buy one. But I'll be damned if I'll let someone like you take away my right to do so. (sound familiar?)

Funny thing I have seen over and over. Some will wave the flag and proclaim their right to this or right to that, rights to this entitlement or even the "rights" of illegals but comes to the 2cnd Amendment the Right mysteriously disappears? Then it comes to the same shouting out for stricter gun controls or bans all together. Take Chicago and New York City, some of the strictest gun control in the U.S. but some of the highest crime and murder rates. Obviously then by restricting something or making it illegal to posses just doesn't make it go away? Didn't we try that with alcohol once to a miserable failure? Heroine, Cocaine, Meth etc all illegal to posses, use, buy and sell but they have not gone away. If you really wanted some heroine how hard is to find, not very. They don't make any sense. Don't like hand guns and don't want one then don't, but guess what Ill keep mine its my right period, no explanation required, end of argument!

Webster Dictionary, a trustworthy source I would say: Arm 5, (usually pl) a weapon -v.t.& i. equip with arms; provide what is necessary for security or defence. Soooo I would say a gun of any sort would fall under the definition.

roc1960:

but comes to the 2cnd Amendment the Right mysteriously disappears? Then it comes to the same shouting out for stricter gun controls or bans all together.

Funny how that works in delusional liberal la la land eh?

Roc, ya wanna know the other funny thing? I don't even own a gun. But, if I want too, some liberal who twists logic into a pretzel to support their argument isn't going to stop me from buying one if I wish to do so.

Its Your RIGHT to do so. They get up on their pedestal for the right of Women to do with what they wish in regards to the women's body. ( ie abortion ). Which by the way I agree before everyone starts screaming bottom line is its not my choice no matter what my personal regards are. But when it comes to my RIGHT to own a gun, Oh boy the name calling starts, innuendos, personal attacks you get the idea. I guess some pick and choose which RIGHTS to believe in and disregard the others. Good thing to believe in freedom of speech or things be real quiet here, or is that next on the list to be disregarded. Who knows anymore with some.

absolutely awful...

Somebody visiting from Toronto, no doubt.

Don't forget nascar. yee haw!

ybp1030,

I did not read any mention of "KKK" in the writing ,,,,or cynical remarks about the "south",,,are you trolling for a reaction ?

Slamming the "south" for what happens daily in the "north"? Actually, I gotta' agree with NEA Exec; those violent Canadians!

I love how the 'city' people like to talk trash about the south. Make 100k in NYC or Chicago? Probably living in a rented apartment, probably no car - or maybe one in the household, have to share a swimming pool with whatever street trash happens to wander by, crackheads and gang scum make walking downtown after dark impossible for a group of gals out for a fun time.

Make $70k in the south? 2500 sq ft house on a big lot, pool, 2 cars, boat, Harley... nice garage to house it all. Very little snow, if any. Likely know neighbors by name. Gang scum - if there are any - are kept herded in their own little areas and learn VERY quickly that they can't take that kinda stuff out of their zoo.

I've lived in a northern city, a southern city, and now a southern suburb. You can keep that lib crap up there. Urban dwellers think other people envy them. Truth is, we pity you. Pathetic lives you lead.

fred: sounds like you need to go pet your puppy. Why so vehement?

and all-star wrestling

It's interesting to me how much people want to put down those in the South, calling us ignorant or whatnot, but what does that make you for saying the things you say?

Violence happens everywhere. Like everyone else says: New York, Chicago, Detroit, Stockton, and many more!!!

Lets see... Ever watched "Swamp People", Cajun Pawn Stars, Housewives of Atlanta..... Enough Said

piglizard-

Fred is "vehement" about all the ignorant posts about the south on this site. I'm also sick of the redneck, toothless, ignorant, violent southerner meme that always surfaces on MSN comments when anything like this happens in the south.

prarie: You must be consumed with those shows. I've heard of them but don't watch them. so... not enough said.

prairiefire: EVERY one of the people on those shows makes more money and has a better lifestyle than you do. 'Nuff said.

@Prairiefire-940802

Getting your facts from reality tv shows, well you know kind of shows your level of education doesn't it?

fred....don't forget the meth lab when you rattle off all those southern charms.

lol All I gotta say is, Thank goodness there is more than just the northeast and the south. You all stay put fighting about who is better or worse and out of my area.

The south are also known for some TALLLL TALLES. Fred had a tallest tale. I live in the south and crime is as rampant as any urban area. In fact, the south have some urban areas!! Alabama, especially South Alabama, is just as crime ridden as NYC ever was. American is rampant with crime. Rampant with ignorance, arrogance, and crime!!!! I sure hope this is a phase we are going through.

Maybe you need to find a better neighborhood. I've lived in the south (Florida) for ten years. Keys are in my vehicles as I type this. My back door hasn't ever been locked, that I can recall; even when I go out of town. And, no, I'm not rural. I live in a suburb of the largest city in Florida, in a fairly large subdivision.

Charles, I live in south Alabama, Outside of some areas of Mobile things are pretty safe and peacefull.

Hi Fred, I live in the north and in a big city.

I love how the 'city' people like to talk trash about the south. Make 100k in NYC or Chicago?

No, much less.

Probably living in a rented apartment,

No, own a house. 1200 sq ft. Plenty big enough for the 3 of us.

probably no car - or maybe one in the household,

Got me there, but we don't need one, there's this thing called public transport....

have to share a swimming pool with whatever street trash happens to wander by,

Don't have to share a swimming pool with anyone, don't see the need to have one.

crackheads and gang scum make walking downtown after dark impossible for a group of gals out for a fun time.

Always lots of 'gals' around the city. Don't know what you're talking about.

Make $70k in the south? 2500 sq ft house on a big lot, pool, 2 cars, boat, Harley... nice garage to house it all. Very little snow, if any. Likely know neighbors by name.

Big lot might be nice, but who the f needs a 2500 sq ft house? Who needs a pool? You sound very belongings oriented with your cars, boats and bikes. And I happen to like snow, in fact winter is much better than summer. I also know my neighbors by name. The thing for me is, I can walk out of my house and be at a good bar within minutes. Don't have to worry too much about how much I drink. And if I get on a bus or the subway there are hundreds upon hundreds of bars, restaurants, museums, etc, that are (literally) minutes away. You couldn't pay me to live in the suburbs out here, never mind Alabama. The worst thing is.... your beer (generally) sucks.

You drank Fred's beer? THAT's the worst thing? Violent crime anywhere is the worst thing, North, South, East, West, and all points in between. Your main focus is alcohol? I'd probably drink a lot too if I lived in a miserable concrete jungle. We can drive out in the pasture, start a bonfire, some drink beer, have a good time and not have to worry about some rapist nutjob on public transportation!

fred, all you are saying is that a job that pays you 70,000 in florida, which, aside from various corrupt officials has one of the lousiest wage rates in the country, buys you more than the same job does in NYC.

But everything else you said was sheer idiotic drivel. But I'll tell you something fred, I've lived in FL and I've lived in NYC and I would take NYC every time. It is incomparably better. If you don't understand why, then you just don't understand why. Period. And that is one reason people dump on the south: because its people are prone to elaborate drivel explaining nothing.

I agree with you in one respect: I don't like people dumping on the south in posts just because illiterate southerners always scream in posts about crime in big northern cities while never discussing their own tweakers, pill heads and muderers. Like douchebags in Broward and Miami-Dade talking about horrible corrupt Chicago politicians. It's a bad joke.

But if you really want to see what people don't like about the south, check out the classic website F___TheSouth Dot Com.

Otter, hope they were all republicans.

Yep, Otter. Those stupid union Democrats, expecting fair wages, health care, and pensions from their corporate bosses; all those horrible things that built middle class America.

dembarb: Alabama . . . .you betcha'!

Reaction time by the local die-hard republican authorities was delayed due to an important reading of "My Pet Goat" which could not be interrupted.

JK...

Fair wages? $30/hr for an unskilled job that anyone could learn to do in 3 weeks? Pensions? I suppose you are still paying the babysitter you hired years ago, even though she hasn't worked for you for ages. You pay the guy who cuts your grass enough to raise a family of 4, right? And have separate workers do: Mowing, trimming, edging, cleanup, fuel delivery. Right? Full medical coverage also? Only union labor does any work on your home or vehicles?

It's fine for you to demand others overpay for workers, but none of you union welfare cases walk the talk. NONE of you.

Fred,

Whats it like to be you? Americans should be able to make 30 dollars an hour for doing something that doesn't require much skill. "Id rather pay an American $30/hour than some foreigner one red cent". That's how our nation does better as a whole. "Trickle up" works much better than "trickle down". I suppose you'd rather see that manufacturing job sent over seas. Sounds like you have no problem employing foreigners. People like you are the problem. Go back to your walmart "ya cheapskate", spend that Social security"welfare", and buy a book and read it "Educate yourself". People like you make me sick!

You don't think that maybe having to pay a janitor 30 dollars an hour is the reason those jobs went over seas to begin with????

I never crossed your mind that paying a janitor 30 dollars and hour was the reason those jobs went over seas????

fred...shut up and finish mowing my lawn.

@JPinMN: Wow!!! Why not "EDUCATE yourself" in the fine art of MATURITY?! STOP all the prejudicial HATE!

Geez!

Why not pay a janitor 30 bucks an hour? Chances would be that you would have a clean toilet.

I mean, a CEO can make 8,173 bucks per hour and just ruin an economy.

30 bucks for a clean toilet or 8 grand to rip you off. What's the better deal?

LOL Otter that was @!$%#ing sweeet made me laugh

ROFLMFAO!!!!! Too funny: sending janitor's jobs overseas. We really need to wise up and grow up! Janitor's jobs outsourced???? Shaking my head in utter disbelief!!!!

MDinNC

WTF ......... When, where have you ever known a janitor that made $30 an hour. I'm 65 & have worked as a janitor (my second job), even my most senior manager didn't make that kind of money. The owner of the janitorial service ---- with over 20 employees ---- yea, just barely over that. I made $9.35 hr. That was in 1971. The current wage for janitorial workers is still under $10 hr. through out most of the US.

My suggestion is either pull your head out or stop lying.

there's at least one in Las Vegas making $63 as of now; it came to light during the city's attempt to declare a state of emergency and purge the union contracts. Look it up; it's in today's headlines. UAW plants have custodians all over the place making that much and more.

And Kevin, you couldn't afford to have me mow your lawn. Maybe you should worry about what your wife pays the neighbor to bang her.

Fred the puppy? Your an idiot..and your name is ridiculous...get a life and grow some testicles! Go get a job or do something more important besides writing a thousand posts. There are a bunch of destitute children in Africa that maybe you could focus on helping besides spewing your white trash stupidity.

Your an idiot

Reposting because I love irony.

You're an idiot. When calling someone an idiot try to use correct grammar..

You all worry too much about what Fred has to say. He's just a corporate dog. And, Fred, the $63.00 per hour includes benefits and probably equates to around $12.00 an hour cash. And ten to one says you would refuse to do the work he does.

Franks, you left out a comma while decrying someone else's bad grammar.

oooh, fred, you cracked on somebody's wife. One day, fred saw his puppy licking what Eric Cartman calls "his baws" and both a life long desire and a nickname were born.

Zimmerman had NOTHING to do with this there are a lot of Zimmermans out there and not all of them are defending their lives they are just angry at the world and want to kill people just because nothing more nothing less and sadly that is a fact.

Maybe the shooter was a licenced carrier, was "standing his ground", NRA member, was trying to shoot a "bad guy" in the bar...etc. Not enough details to make any determinations/judgements at this time.

The shooter probably owned the gun he used legally, possibly no previous criminal history etc.

Waiting for Wayne LaPierre to open his trap in defense of violence, again!

This world needs more George Z's. Clean the place up! Get in line dems! POW BANG ZOOM!

The rednecks at this bar wouldn't let a Mexican like Zimmerman walk through the front door, much less to sit and drink with them.

So if I bash you upside the head with a rock then it's the rock's fault right............. Typical blame something else other than take responsibility for your own actions which is bass ackwards thinking....

So what do you blame when your spouse/girlfriend cheats with another dude? Must be the dildo's fault, right?

William, when is the last time you saw a gun just jump out of no where all on its own and shoot somebody? Right, NEVER. I own guns and they actually stay where I keep them. No need to leave the light on all night so they can't sneak attack me. I would tend to blame the dam shooter on this one, not the gun. The shooter chose to nutt up and commit this crime, not the gun. Can you comprehend that... at all? I bet you think it'll hurt ol Nathan's feelings if you charge him with the shootings, you'd probably let him walk, go on home, poor Nathan, that mean ol gun did this, not you... I wasn't brought up by parents that worried they'd hurt my feelings. That's a lot of what's wrong with society because so many people are raised so poorly, even in upper middle class. See what you started?

The guy with the gun wasn't drinking having a great time in the bar.

What facinating perspective you have on the world, and to actually think some people see the world like you do. Now that's scary.

Jesus Jimbo wtf kinda harsh someones child has been murdered not cool at all

Careful nobrent, your stupidity is showing!

that's right. let them be doctors (dentist uses used needles on patients) or lawyers (crooked politicians everywhere) and such (or they might like to be from up north where they kill people and bury them in the back yard)

Most likely some urban punk, not a redneck. Of course, you knew that.

Careful nobrent, your ignorance is showing!!!!!

It's funny that people like you immediately assume to know everything and everyone. That's a college area! Do you know how many people from out of state come there? Not that that even matters. I live in Alabama and I am far from being a redneck. You need to grow up.

Or as ignorant as some of you.

I agree Nikki, college town. I've been through there some, but was traveling and didn't stop there. I live about 20 miles from the state line up in NW Georgia. I love how everybody thinks we are so ignorant, toothless, inbred, and so on. Shows their jealousy of not having a cool place to grow up and work and live!

nobrent - looks like you were right, after all. Imagine that...an actual redneck in Alabama. Amazing!

I guess Freed the puppy gets the egg all over his noggin. Because the shooter was ......... TADA ........ WHITE redneck biker!!!!

Anymore stereotypes for us Fred???

Not from a tribe, pal. Turns out that this guy was from a klan.

I wouldn't blame this on the "red" necks choose another color.

At least 17 injured in shooting at downtown Tuscaloosa bar | al.com

blog.al.com › Tuscaloosa › Crime

I know you are just trying to be a good racist but many links including the one above have a picture of the alleged shooter and he is clearly white.

post links to the pics of 300 random shooting suspects from the past year. Include the major cities - Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Baltimore ... The vast majority of them would look like a redneck, I'll assume? I think not. YOU know not. Racism has FA to do with it.

Sorry, but the whites do get to claim this one.

It's is completely idiotic to try and say that one ethnicity is the most violent, depraved or criminal. No need to print out a list, both "sides" have some pretty embarassing skeletons in the closet.

Check the pic dundundun ... he's .. say it with me now ...... Caucasian .. and looks batsh!tcrazy too!

Fred HAS to say that. Because he got caught being what he is A BIG A$$ RACIST!!! Fred is one of those people that HATES to be wrong and will find some justification for their ignorance in order to deflect the comments that will come his way.

I love it, Fred Fred Fred ........ troll the puppy is more like it LMAO!!!

Where did you read the shooter was drunk? I agree with your statement but I didn't see it as in reference to the article.

Carol your right, and the Federal Govt's plan is working very well.

Right, let's blame this on the government...total airhead!

$100 says the victims and the shooter be black

Or you could just Google the story, get some actual facts and see the in the surveillance photo the police released that the shooter is CLEARLY WHITE!!!

I am guessing you didn't vote Obama/Biden??

Get your wallet out. You just lost 100 bucks.

I haven't seen any footage but I will take your word for it. That is usually a very safe bet.

Lion in Houston: Out of work and angry, huh? Why not apply at Bain Capital, or are they only hiring in Bangalore, India?

GM has many more workers overseas than any Bain company EVER will... THOUSANDS

Not all black people commit violence. I'm sure in your world that's how you were taught, but you need get out. That's an ignorant comment. Any race can do this horrible act, but it's clear that this one was done by white people. Who cares what color anyways? 17 people have been hurt by a moron. Plain and simple.

LinH, I'll take that bet. Show me da money.....

OUCH dude you lose !! If you have a 100.00 You wouldnt honor your bet .... you're THAT type of asswipe you're a closet racist and a DAMN POSER!! Stop ASSuming

Obama.....OBAMA...???

I'll just chalk that up to another AIRHEAD RACIST BRAINWASHED white guy!

You people are sick, get some help or move to another country.

You might want to leave now since he will win again...not to hurt your feelings but facts are facts.

Lion in Houston, you are one racist, ignorant, dumb a$$....The shooter was trailer park white trash or just a whack job, but he was WHITE...so why make stupid comments and bring the president into it...Maybe the shooter was your Uncle Billy Bob Joe, wouldn't suprise me. Oh and you have to love someone who takes out his frustrations on poor innocent bystandards...just like Lion. Get an edumacation- fool!

Gee. The white race really sucks. Killers gang bangers, biker thugs and red necks. City folk and country people. What is America coming to when we hate ourselves.

We need to take the Amsterdam route. Never heard of a shooting in a head shop :-)

ya, no such thing as drug related violence. Run right on down to Mexico - or San Diego - and find the nice, mellow stoners and say 'hi'. Let us know how that works out.

JK from PA

Ever heard of Long Beach, CA? Pot delivery man - murdered for money and drugs, body left in alley. Another time, head shop employees - shot and robbed (don't remember if they died).

There, now you've heard of shootings in (and around) a head shop. :) And these incidents occured in hippy-dippy-do, liberal, 2nd largest gay city in CA... check the stats.

fred and Sammy,

You do realize that pot is illegal in the U.S., right? That's why these killings happen.

What JK is advocating is legalization. Thus, less death over pot.

ya. Fewer deaths with guns because they are legal. Fewer DUI's if driving drunk were legal. Fewer rapes if THAT were legal. Legalize everything, then there will be NO crime. Fookin' brilliant plan.

@fred the puppy

Don't want to bust your bubbles, but prohibition was a real success, and oranges do taste like apples, sweat.

You want to outlaw businesses, malls, high schools and colleges too, dip$hit!!!! where other shootings happen... Just a bunch of ignorant morons online today!!

Hambone Johnson...You need to go bone your own johnson...your a MORON...What does Cannabis have to do with shooting and violence? Maybe bath salts, PCP, but pot? Do your research before spewing your sh*t and nonesense - YOUR ALL COMPLETE BRAINDEAD F's ON THIS particular post. This is why abortion should be legal, idiots like you in the world, wasting O2.

Hey just the facts. Here you go: Flint, Detroit, St Louis, Oakland in that order. Top 4 worst high crime cities in America. All Democrat strong holds. Know the facts before you punch the keys.

Hey Nick- Those are cities, not states. Retake geography class. You failed.

Just the bs was comparing political parties regarding poverty re crime. Learn how to comprehend.

Hey Sarge-Nick wrote top 4 worst high crime cities. Retake reading class. You failed.

Hey Old Sarge,

I believe Nick said they were cities. You should learn to read.

Hey arguing folks!! I don't think murderers really give a flying fart what political party is where.

What about some of the states with the worst debt.

(Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Illinois, California, Maryland) Hey it is just the facts.

Wow those are blue states aren't they? Now don't you think fingerpointing is a little silly?

hahahahah you guys are funny........arguing which section of the fish bowl is better.

Final point. Republicans are idiots. Someone talks about states, you rebut them with cities. I think someone else has the reading comprehension problems. Must be the product of a red state school system.

@#24(justdalackoffacts!) How many sites did you COPY and PASTE the same b.s.? I know of AT LEAST ONE! What FACTS?!

We are so f'd here in California and this place bleeds blue

16 billion in the hole and we have over 300 different gangs in just LA

The drop out rate for LA unified school district over 50%

Millions of uneducated young people with nothing going for them but gangsta lifestyles......

The shooter in the vid is lanky and has a full head of hair. The one arrested in the photo id bald and heavy set. Why?

I do not think this guy was a legal registered voter. He did have the manners to wait on the police and turn himself in though.

just blame the NRA.

I blame drugs!! (Beat you to it!!)

Arizona Tumbleweed,

I agree ,,many will just spout ignorant rants anyway ,,,,,and want to blame.

Ok - I will blame the National Rats-Ahole (NRA) organization because the last time I checked they're the only ones I know who advocate, using the Second Amendment to the US Constitution as their excuse, a slow genocide on the American people by arming to the teeth a bunch of drunken rednecks and hoodlums with no coping skills, no jobs and a chip on their shoulders the size of Montana.

The NRA supports prohibitions on people being armed around alcohol. Who do you think came up with the catch-phrase "Guns and alcohol don't mix"? It wasn't Sarah Brady, I assure you.

Besides, I bet you $20 that the shooter either hadn't had a single drop of booze or hadn't had enough to be drunk, but instead was crazy. It's the crazies who do these mass shootings, not the law-abiding shooters.

For the crazies, we need to bring back the state hospitals and long-term hospitalization in mental hospitals.

The NRA supports prohibitions on people being armed around alcohol

The National Rifle Association (NRA) frequently claims that concealed carry permit holders are the most law-abiding citizens in America. While this is likely true in many cases, it has become apparent that the screening process in most states does little or nothing to stop dangerous individuals from obtaining permits to carry concealed handguns.

In 2009, for example, there were six confirmed mass shootings (defined as three or more deaths) by concealed carry permit holders, including the Fort Hood shooting by Nidal Malik Hasan and the killing of three policemen by Neo-Nazi Richard Poplawski in Pittsburgh.

Currently 34 states have "Shall-Issue" laws that require law enforcement officials to approve permits for any applicant who passes a basic computerized background check through the FBI's NICS database (which is missing millions of disqualifying records). Individuals with misdemeanor criminal convictions, DUI offenses, past domestic abuse restraining orders, and histories of voluntary commitment to psychiatric instituitions can and do obtain permits legally. Training requirements—if there are any for permit holders— are no more rigorous than a single day-class in instruction.

Despite these problems with the screening process, the NRA is currently pushing to allow the carrying of concealed handguns in public spaces across America—including schools, churches, parks, airports, metro transport, restaurants, and bars.

Uhhh, no it doesn't. It advocates for carry laws anywhere, everywhere and all the time.

Turn off FOX and get some facts.

Get some facts from where... MSNBC? hahahahahaha!!!!!!

This reply is intended to reply to the post, above, made by WilliamOfRites.

Official statement of NRA policy re: use of guns and alcohol: "Never use alcohol or
over-the-counter, prescription or other drugs before or while shooting. Alcohol, as well
as any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical bodily functions, must not be used before or while handling or shooting guns."

Besides, my $20 bet, that the shooter was crazy and not under influence of alcohol, still stands. Nah, I'm revoking it. But I still bet that the guy was nuts.

The CCW course states this but it's common sense... The carrying of a firearm for self defense is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly..

Gun Free Zones at schools are one of the most stupidest things that have ever been created by feel good politicians.. Crazy bastards like this shooter would walk and blast that sign and then proceed inside to murder innocence.

I know William you hate one of the oldest civil rights organizations in our country and that's your prerogative but not mine 8)

I support gun rights for all Americans

Then of course, there's Arizona. NO tests for anyone. NO permits required, even for concealed. No one is completely free, but we're a little better off than most.

Hey Diane, we have shootings nightly in Nashville and about 90% of the shooters aren't rednecks (which I take it to mean white). So there goes your dumbaz theory. You are a hater.

The Dog, you are the biggest liar that ever lived. I bet you do not live in Nashville. If people are interested, you can see the fools being arrested by the minute and for what crime by going online and 90% are white. Big racist liar!

TNwinters - NOPE. All you have to do is watch the news. THEY may be the racists, for all I know, but there is a "possibly gang-related" shooting in Nashville every night. It is completely sad to say it, but you know what ethnicity the perp is before they tell you here. I am not sure it is race, though, that is really behind it - I believe it is cultural and educational.