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Subscribe to RSSJennifer Tyrrell, who was ousted as a den mother for her son's Cub Scout troop because of her sexual orientation, is fighting back. Tyrrell talks to msnbc's Thomas Roberts about her petition to change the Boy Scouts of America's long-standing policy on banning gays and lesbians.
The Boy Scouts of America will keep their controversial policy banning gay scouts and leaders after a confidential two-year review, the organization said Tuesday.
The announcement comes amid a stepped-up campaign from activist groups urging an end to the membership standards.
“The vast majority of the parents of youth we serve value their right to address issues of same-sex orientation within their family, with spiritual advisers, and at the appropriate time and in the right setting,” said Bob Mazzuca, Chief Scout Executive of the Boy Scouts. “While a majority of our membership agrees with our policy, we fully understand that no single policy will accommodate the many diverse views among our membership or society.”
The Boy Scouts convened a committee of 11 senior volunteers and professional leaders to decide whether the policy was still in the organization’s best interests after a resolution was put forward to reconsider it, the private group said in a statement that was first reported by The Associated Press. The nearly two-year-long review began in 2010.
The committee reached a "unanimous consensus" that it was the "best policy" for the BSA, Scouts' spokesman Deron Smith said in an email. That conclusion was shared at a February board meeting and recently reviewed by the officers of the board, he said.
“The committee included a diversity of perspectives and opinions. The review included forthright and candid conversation and extensive research and evaluations -- both from within Scouting and from outside the organization. The committee’s work and conclusion is that this policy reflects the beliefs and perspectives of the BSA’s members, thereby allowing Scouting to remain focused on its mission and the work it is doing to serve more youth,” the statement said.
The review was conducted confidentially "to allow the committee to make the best decision for the organization," Smith said.
In June, the Boy Scouts said the organization was considering another resolution proposed at the group's annual meeting the month before that also called for ending the policy. But the decision announced Tuesday means the Scouts’ board will take no further action on that resolution, Smith said.
"Resolutions can always be submitted as defined by our bylaws, but the officers of the board have no plans to further review this issue," he said.
Boy Scouts review controversial anti-gay policy
Eagle Scout son of lesbian moms: Boys Scouts must end gay discrimination
Gay mom upset after dismissal by Boy Scouts
Boy Scouts board member opposes anti-gay policy
The Boy Scouts’ policy became a focus of the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000, when the justices sided with the organization in a lawsuit involving a former assistant Scoutmaster who was gay, citing the protections of the First Amendment.
Courtesy of Jennifer Tyrrell
Tyrrell, a 32-year-old stay at home mother of four, said she agreed to become the den master on the day she signed up her son, Cruz Burns, for the local troop, last year. She had concerns about the Boy Scouts' policy against homosexuals, but a Cubmaster said that – locally -- they wouldn't have problem.
Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout who is the son of a lesbian couple, has recently campaigned for changing the policy, along with Jennifer Tyrrell, who was ousted from her post as a Tiger Cubs’ den leader in April because she is a lesbian. She started an online petition to seek changes to the Boy Scouts policy.
Smith said the Boy Scouts would accept Tyrrell's petition on Wednesday, but did not plan to discuss the policy. Another big batch of petition signatures was delivered by Wahls to the Boy Scouts' annual meeting in May.
Wahls denounced what he said was "the secretive nature surrounding how this conclusion was reached" and called the announcement "old news."
"We've heard this line before, and we'll hear it again before this is all said and done. I've said this before and I'll say it again: this will be the official BSA policy up until the day it finally ends," he said in an email to msnbc.com. "Regardless of your thoughts on homosexuality, surely we can agree that gay people who serve our troops and communities deserve our respect and gratitude."
BSA board member James Turley, global chairman and CEO of consulting and tax firm Ernst & Young, said in mid-June that he was working within the organization to encourage dialogue on the policy, which is not one he would “personally endorse.” When contacted Tuesday, his firm's media representatives said he would have no comment beyond his earlier remarks.
“Scouting believes that good people can personally disagree on this topic and still work together to achieve the life-changing benefits to youth through Scouting," the BSA National Executive Board said in the statement. "While not all Board members may personally agree with this policy, and may choose a different direction for their own organizations, BSA leadership agrees this is the best policy for the organization and supports it for the BSA.”
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Mad-dog said:
"Homosexuality is practiced in over 1500 species. Homophobia is practiced in only 1. You tell me which one is unnatural."
Can you name one of the 1500 species (other than human)? Everything I've read on the subject states that same-sex activity is about domination and intimidation, not affection.
From LiveScience
And
From National Geographic
A partial list of animals who display homosexual behavior:
Mammals
Birds
Fish
Reptiles
Amphibians
Insects and other invertebrates
Because some animals have a little tendency to do homosexual acts, does not mean its normal.
I know that a man and woman sexual organs were meant to reproduce. It was meant to work that way.
In the first place, 1,500 species is not just "some" animals.
Second, if "sexual organs were meant to reproduce," then explain why so many people are infertile. You can also explain why people have sex even when they are NOT trying to reproduce.
Erin, that's quite a list. Where did it come from? And what do they mean by homosexual tendencies? I'm not baiting you, I'm just wanting to learn more about it. It seems difficult in the animal world to distinguish between alpha male domination and true attraction. How are these studies distinguishing between the two? And are there any cases of female-female?
Erin People are infertile for various reasons from health to Psychological, but as a rule not by design. Also Human being have a much higher developed mind and we have sex most times for reasons of just pleasure, emotion etc. We do a lot of other acts in our lives for the same reason. Being of higher developed mind we do many things that are not driven by instinct etc. as many other animals rely on instinct.
To me this isn't so much a gay issue as a membership issue. Reminds me more of the debates over country club membership a few years back when the country club was reported as not allowing women and/or african americans.
And as a true Christian, I (try to) follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Sexuality was never an issue to the Son of God. The Bible prohibits certain sexual acts, which can be performed by both hetero and homo oriented couples, but same sex love is actually celebrated in several areas in the Bible i.e. "Jonathan loved David as he loved his own soul, they formed a covenanct celebrating that love."
You are taking the David/Jonathan story way out of context. If anything, David had a problem with wanting more than one woman.
Although nowhere in 1 Samuel 1 does it say David and Jonathan were lovers or homosexuals and even though David and Jonathan were married to women while David had multiple wives.
Because David was so sexually active, it is only logical to assume that he and Johnathan were having a sexual affair.
1 Samuel 16: "So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, "May the Lord call David's enemies to account." And Jonathan had David reaffirm his oath out of love for him, because he loved him as he loved himself."
After Jonathan's Death David said:
2 Samuel 1:26: Douay Rheims Bible: 1582: "I grieve for thee, my brother Jonathan: exceeding beautiful, and amiable to me above the love of women. As the mother loveth her only son, so did I love thee."
EQUALITY MUST BE MANDANTORY and if an organization states they are CHRISTIAN, they should act as CHRISTIANS and the BSA does NOT.
In the original Boy scout manual (Scouting For Boys, 1908) it said:
"We aim for the practice of Christianity in their everyday life and dealings, and not merely the profession of theology on Sundays. There is a vast reserve of loyal patriotism and Christian spirit lying dormant in our nation today, mainly because it sees no direct opportunity for expressing itself. Here in this joyous brotherhood there is a vast opportunity open to all in a happy work that shows the results under your hands and a work that is worthwhile because it gives every man his chance of service for his fellow-men and for God." –
"No man is much good unless he believes in God and obeys His laws. So every Scout should have a religion....Religion seems a very simple thing: First: Love and Serve God. Second: Love and serve your neighbor." - (Scouting For Boys, 1908)
This year in a New York Times article Published: July 19, 2012 it stated that the founder of the Boy Scouts, Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell (raised to the peerage as Lord Baden-Powell) was in probability a gay man himself — though closeted, of course, considering the circumstances. A Victorian military hero who skyrocketed to fame after his valiant defense of the besieged city of Mafeking during the Second Boer War, Baden-Powell was one of the British Empire’s most adulated soldiers, looked to as the very model of muscular Christianity. Baden-Powell, the author of the hugely popular and influential “Scouting for Boys” (1908), inspired a national cult of manliness even as he entertained serious worry about his own sexuality.
Young “Stephe” was a sensitive boy who liked playing with dolls, and as he grew into a young man he formed deep attachments to other boys. Once in the army he made a name for himself playing female roles in army theatricals. Throughout his life he openly admired muscular men and pretty boys, while attractive women sent him into a state of anxiety; he was much more comfortable with plain, companionable ones. He was 55 before he decided to marry, but he panicked soon after his union with the lovely young Olave Soames, developing agonizing headaches that were relieved only when he left the matrimonial bed and returned to his ascetic soldier’s cot.
Baden-Powell’s strongest emotional bond was with Kenneth McLaren, a fellow army officer. The two met while serving in India, in 1881, acting in an army performance of a farce called “The Area Belle” in which Baden-Powell, for once, played a male part, while McLaren, a 20-year-old who looked 14, appeared in the ingénue’s role. Baden-Powell nicknamed McLaren “The Boy,” and the two remained extremely close for years.
God’s laws inside the scriptures are clear. Do NOT oppress, judge or condemn. Speak the truth do NOT swear falsely, or be insulting. Do not slander or be impartial, show equity, be loving, do NOT show favoritism, wrath or anger. Do NOT take advantage of others. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Do NOT be violent or quarrelsome. Do NOT be perverse, immoral or stir dissension. Show courtesy, love, peace, gentleness, joy, compassion and kindness. Do NOT sin, be holy, pure, upright, merciful, peaceful and righteous.
So discipline, chastisement and punishment is NOT needed, one must THINK BEFORE they speak and act. This is the TRUE way of God.
Proverbs 21:29: “A wicked man puts up a bold front, but an upright man gives thought to his ways.”
Titus 3:2: "Speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.
Philippians 2:1: So if there is any encouragement in Christ, Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
I've read your stuff (website). Your definition of Christian is very loose if you are applying it to yourself. Christians don't practice witchcraft.
savant99,
You are inncorect, God and Christ BOTH practiced and encouraged WITCHCRAFT. They called it Mirracles.
Jeremiah 28:9: “The prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the LORD only if his prediction comes true."
John 14:1,11: “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God trust also in me. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these,
In order to confirm that witchcraft is not a sin we must look to Romans 9:11 when Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ relays God words: it is hear that God encourages us to use God’s power.
Romans 9:11: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
The power of God is the power of Gods magic, miracles, compassion and love.
1 Corinthians 12:28: “And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues”
1 Corinthians 12:7, 29: “The manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.”
God loves all creation equally. There are no exceptions nor are there stipulations. God does not play favorites; this is the way of a true and loving God.
1 Corinthians 14:1 encourages us to use divination: Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.
The American Heritage dictionary definition for witchcraft is: the practice of sorcery; magic. Magical influence; witchery. The Webster’s dictionary definition for witchcraft is: : The use of sorcery or magic. The Oxford dictionary definition for witchcraft is: The practice of magic,
Since all dictionaries confirm that witchcraft is indeed magic, let’s take a look at what magic means.
The American Heritage dictionary definition for magic is the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. The Webster’s dictionary definition for magic is: a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces b : magic rites or incantations. 2.a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source. The Oxford dictionary definition for magic is: the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
God is a miracle worker who uses mysterious or supernatural forces to rule the people and the land by sending plagues of destruction to kill, using wands and staffs to create wars. In essence God is using magic….or witchcraft. Now let’s see what the word miracle means.
The American Heritage dictionary definition for a miracle is: an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause. 2. Such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God. The Webster’s dictionary definition for Miracle is: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs The Oxford dictionary definition for miracle is: an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency:
Even though sending Plagues and wars would be considered black magic and not miracles God and Christ both indeed used supernatural powers and influence to heal, feed and care for the people of the Earth.
In (John 2:1-11); Jesus turned water into wine, to give the people joy. In (John 9) and (Luke 21:20-22/John 4:50-51); Jesus healed the sick and blind and gave helpful psychic predictions. In (John 6:11); Jesus multiplied loafs of bread to feed the poor and In (John 6:18) Jesus walks on water to bring a boat safely to shore. All through Jesus Christ’s life time, Jesus taught us to help others with our spells and psychic gifts, while releasing our negativity into our powers within.
In Exodus 14: God encourages Moses to part the Red Sea by using his staff as a magical wand. “Then the Lord spoke to Moses. He said; Why are you crying out to me? Tell the people of Israel to move on. Hold your wooden staff out. Reach your hand out over the Red Sea to part the water. Then the people can go through the sea on dry ground.” The people wanted to cross the sea and Moses wanted them to cross, so the energy of Moses spell connected with the energy of the people.
In Exodus 7:20; God gives Moses supernatural powers to turn the Nile to blood. “And Moses and Aaron did as the LORD commanded; he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.” Once again in Exodus 17:6: NIV: God gives Mosses powers to bring the elders water from a stone. “I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink." So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. The biggest feat of sorcery that Moses performed with Gods magical staff was in Exodus 17:8-18:27 (New International Version) when Mosses won a war merely by holding the staff up to the heavens. In all cases of successful spell casting, everyone involved is working towards the same goal.
savant99,
The definition of CHRISTIANITY is defined by God's laws.
These laws cannot be altered or changed.
God’s laws inside the scriptures are clear. Do NOT oppress, judge or condemn. Speak the truth do NOT swear falsely, or be insulting. Do not slander or be impartial, show equity, be loving, do NOT show favoritism, wrath or anger. Do NOT take advantage of others. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Do NOT be violent or quarrelsome. Do NOT be perverse, immoral or stir dissension. Show courtesy, love, peace, gentleness, joy, compassion and kindness. Do NOT sin, be holy, pure, upright, merciful, peaceful and righteous.
So discipline, chastisement and punishment is NOT needed, one must THINK BEFORE they speak and act. This is the TRUE way of God.
Proverbs 21:29: “A wicked man puts up a bold front, but an upright man gives thought to his ways.”
No small irony that the founder of the world scouting movement was himself a repressed homosexual or bisexual.
The BSA today would have to kick out their founder.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/scoutings-gay-founder.html
http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/layer02/articles/2006031308.html
Where did you discover the information that he was a homosexual? I need a reliable source of information - not a shill for liberals like the New York Times.
What is being missed here is a basic human right called "association." In other words, we all get to pick our friends. Now it may not be fair, and some people have bad taste in friends, but it's still their right. You cannot mandate who someone will and won't associate with.
The BSA, churches, and clubs are private organizations. They get to determine who they do and don't want in. Doesn't always seem fair, but it's a right just the same.
You've missed the point, savant. BSA has a federal charter. Therefore, their association is with the nation as-a-whole. All they need to do to avoid this level of scrutiny is renounce their association to the nation as-a-whole and all withdraw from and eschew all the benefits to their members that stem from that charter (such as the favoritism shown to their Eagle scouts in the armed forces).
savant99,
The BSA is an educational organization for children to prepare them in social and survival skills.
Children will not survive socially if they are taught to discriminate.
"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed"…..Martin Luther King, Jr.
What happens when these young scouts are confronted by homosexuals that demand their civil rights?
Will these scouts insult them? Condemn them? Beat them, discriminate, persecute and exclude them from their civil rights or perhaps or will they even kill them while feeling justified that their leaders in the BSA taught them these SURVIVAL skills?
The BSA, as a private organization, DOES NOT have a right to set its own standards if they intend to send their students out into the public world as instigators of discrimination, persecution and exclusion.
NO organization has a RIGHT to teach ANY child oppression.
This is wrong and NOTHING can make it right.
The homosexual communities are now saying to their persecutors and oppressors:
Judges 11:27: "I have not wronged you, but you are doing me wrong by waging war against me. Let the LORD, the Judge, decide the dispute this day."
The Lord then answers:
In Exodus 23:9 it is said: "You shall not oppress a stranger:"
This private organization seeks support from the PUBLIC. That in itself takes its rights away.
Proverbs 2:9: Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
Psalm 98:9: "Let them sing before the Lord, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples with equity."
James 3:17: But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.
In this day and age where there is so much bullying and terrorism it is up to every parent to make certain that their children are not taught to condemn, discriminate, exclude or persecute others.
The bottom line is, if we don't teach our children to do what is right who will? These scouts will bring whatever they are taught by their leaders out into the world.
No one has a right to teach our children to persecute, discriminate and condemn never not forget one day those boy scouts will take what they learned from their leaders and respond to that negative programming in the public.
If a child is taught to condemn they will condemn others
If a child is taught to persecute they will persecute others
If a child is taught to discriminate they will discriminate against others.
This behavior will not stay in the confines of club meetings and affairs.
"If you, your child, a friend or family member were homosexual would you want others to persecute you?
"Would you want your child to beat up or verbally harass a homosexual because they learned it in boy scouts?
"Do you think persecuting someone for their personal and sexual preference is a rational and humane thing to do?"
The BSA sexually abuses children as well as teaching them discrimination.
True Homosexuals openly admit they are gay. They do not endanger children nor do they hold criminal records.
The ones who men that deceive are the ones that hide behind the cover of being heterosexual such as all those that say they are upright honorable heterosexual scout leaders. These scout leaders confess that they are straight and moral in order to get their jobs they also confess that they are TRUE followers of God and Christ.
Interesting that the vast majority of the countries in the world scouting movement aren't at all bigoted and accept gays and atheists as both scouts and troop leaders.
It's only the US and Muslim countries which have bigoted scouting groups. Apparently the American Taliban which runs the BSA has a lot in common with the Afghan Taliban.
I'm not interested in being like the rest of the world - Three times in the 20th Century (World War I, World War II, & the Cold War - we (the US) had to rescue Europeans from themselves and the Communist Menance. The rest of the world counts on us to do the heavy lifting. As far comparing the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) to the Taliban - I don't see US Scouting urging its members to declare Jihad, strap on a bomb, or spread theri beliefs by the sword
Hmm...Let me see, here is the 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress
of grievances." -
Here is the 9th Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain
rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the
people."
Here is the 10th Amendment(Congress and the federal gubbermint seem to
forget this one exists at all): The powers not delegated to the
United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are
reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Ok -here's your answer to the Boy Scout Question....The First Amendment says the
Boy Scouts, as a private organization, have a right to set their membership polices
as they best see fit. So does ACT-UP (Aids Coalition to
Unleash Power), the LGTA (Lesbian Gay Transgendered Association), or whatever
your particular flavor of the month is.
The 9th Amendment says even if the federal government and/or government(s) of the
several states have limited authority in some aspects of what the Boy Scouts do
and don't do, that does not give them authority to regulate all of what the Boy
Scouts do.
The 10th Amendment says that unless the federal government has a specifically
delegated power with regards to the Boy Scouts, that they should stay out and
not meddle in their affairs. The States may or may not intervene in the affairs
of the Boy Scouts, but they can't do so in violation of their respective rights
enshrined in the 1st Amendment.
Bottom Line: Vote for freedom Vote Libertarian. Libertarians say the Boy Scouts are
free to set their membership standards according to their own moral code. They only
ask the same freedom that is given to others, to set their own membership
policies and conduct their affairs peaceably and without interruption or harassment.
wish I could claim credit for these ideas. The Founding Fathers came up with
them, because they believed in Liberty.
All this is encapsulated very nicely, in the following Bible Verse: Deuteronomy30:15 See, I have set before
thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
A further note: I'm in sales, if you don't like the policies, you need to take it up with management!
You left out the Establishment Clause. That means that our secular government shouldn't be supporting a religious group like the BSA, and that the BSA shouldn't have a federal charter or receive subsidized rent of public facilities.
the irony is, the Boy Scouts is like the gayiest thing in the world...
This is not intended for offense or hatred, but to Speak
TRUTH!homosexuality will not make it into the Kingdom of GOD!
It is written that it is an abomination! GOD's Creation and order of mankind was
for man and woman; and to replenish the earth.
It is written; Genesis Chapter 1: 1-31
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided
the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the
waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which
were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it
was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and
the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered
together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering
together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb
yielding seed, andthe fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is
in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed
after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed wasin itself, after his
kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the
heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven
to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule
the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give
light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide
the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the
moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the
open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature
that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and
every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply,
and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living
creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth
after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and
cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his
kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the
fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every
creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be
fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have
dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing
seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is
the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the
air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I
have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it
was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
It is also written; Genesis Chapter 19: 1-29
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in
the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed
himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you,
into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye
shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide
in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto
him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake
unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the
men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people
from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the
men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know
them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door
after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man;
let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in
your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the
shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one
fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse
with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and
came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the
house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house
with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find
the door.
12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides?
son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city,
bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them
is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to
destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which
married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD
will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot,
saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou
be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand,
and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD
being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the
city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth
abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay
thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD:
19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight,
and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my
life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a
little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul
shall live.
21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee
concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which
thou hast spoken.
22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till
thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zo'ar.
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into
Zo'ar.
24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Go-mor'rah
brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all
the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became
a pillar of salt.
27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place
where he stood before the LORD:
28 And he looked toward Sodom and Go-mor'rah, and toward all
the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as
the smoke of a furnace.
29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the
plain, that God rememBe'red Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the
overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
Romans Chapter 1: 13-32
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that
oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might
have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians;
both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel
to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is
the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first,
and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from
faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in
them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not
as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their
foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an
image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and
creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through
the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between
themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped
and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for
even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the
woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which
is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which
was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their
knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are
not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication,
wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit,
malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters,
inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural
affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit
such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in
them that do them.
Romans Chapter 2: 1-11
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art
that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for
thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to
truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do
such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and
forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth
thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up
unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous
judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for
glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the
truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth
evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh
good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
I Corinthians Chapter 6: 9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the
kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers,
nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are
sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the
Spirit of our God.
Leviticus Chapter 20: 13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination:
American Standard
Version: unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers
of themselves with men, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or extortioners.
Amplified Bible:
unrighteous and wrongdoers; impure and immoral, idolaters, adulterers,
homosexuality, cheats (swindlers and thieves), greedy graspers, drunkards,
revilers and slanderers, extortioners and robbers
The Answer: people
who do wrong; sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, male
prostitutes, men who have sexual relations with other men, steal, greedy, get
drunk, lie about others, rob
The Authentic New
Testament: evil-doers; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, userers,
drunkards, foul-mouthed, extortioners
Christian Standard
Bible: sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes,
homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers
The Jerusalem Bible:
people who do wrong; people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites,
sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers
King James:
unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of
themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners
Living Bible: going
to outside judges, immoral, idol worshipers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves,
greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers
The Living New
Testament: those doing such things, live immoral lives, idol worshipers,
adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, slandermongers,
robbers
Modern Language:
unrighteous; profligates. idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves,
avaricious, drunkards, slanderers, robbers
James Moffatt:
wicked; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, lustful,
drunken, abusive, robbers
New American: unjust;
fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, boy prostitutes, practicing homosexuals,
thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers
New American Standard:
unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals,
thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or swindlers.
New Century Version:
people who do wrong, sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, men
who have sexual relations with other men, steal, selfish, get drunk, lie about
others, cheat
New International:
wicked; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexual
offenders, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers
New Living
Translation: those who do wrong; those who indulge in sexual sin, idol
worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy,
drunkards, abusers, swindlers
New Revised Standard
Version: wrongdoers; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes,
sodomites, thieves, greedy drunkards, revilers, robbers
New Testament and
Psalms: (3) wrongdoers; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male
prostitutes, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers
New World:
unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, men kept for unnatural
purposes, men who lie with men, thieves, greedy persons, drunkards, revilers or
extortioners.
The Promise: evil
people; immoral, worships idols, unfaithful in marriage, pervert or behaves
like a homosexual...thief, greedy person, drunkards, anyone who curses and
cheats others.
Revised English
Bible: wrongdoers; fornicator, idolater, adulterer, sexual pervert, thief,
extortioner, drunkard, slanderer, swindler.
Revised Standard:
unrighteous; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, greedy,
drunkards, revilers, robbers
Rheims New Testament:
unjust; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, liers with mankind,
thieves, covetous, drunkards, railers, extortioners
The New Testament:
lechers, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, pederasts, thieves, covetous,
drunken, abusive, rapacious (Translated by Richmond Lattimore)
Today's English
Version: wicked, immoral, worship idols, adulterers, homosexual perverts,
steal, greedy, drunkards. slanders, thieves
The United Gospels
New Testament: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate,
abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers,
extortioners
In other words....."I don't hate fags, it's my imaginary friend in the sky who hates fags."
CL
Are you God?
You aren't qualified to pass judgment, so you can't know who will or will not make it into heaven.
Only God knows the heart.
This turns out to be belied by the message that followed it.
Don't speak of that which you don't understand, CL. If you've never been close friends with a number of homosexuals (or been one yourself), you couldn't possibly understand the falsehood of what you're spewing. You don't know God. Such hate can only mean you have been taken by Satan. I'll pray for your recovery.
cl-3426982,
You swear falsely in God's name.
Leviticus 19:12: "'Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.”
Zechariah 8:17: “Do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD.”
There is NO mention of laws against homosexuality in the original biblical transcripts.
People may not want to accept or acknowledge the fact that the word homosexuality and sodomy are not Biblical, but this is true. Any statements about homosexuality being sinful or an abomination in the eyes of God are false statements. Nowhere in the Bible did God or Christ say Homosexuality was a sin nor did they say homosexuality was perverse, deviated, or an abomination. The word homosexuality really didn't come into play until the 15th - 19th century. The word homosexuality was added to Newer Bibles after 1946 but in Bible times, the words Gay and homosexuality were not known and therefore, they are irrelevant to the Bible and God's teachings. Concerning the act of sodomy, there is no word in the original biblical Greek or Hebrew translations for "sodomy." A Sodomite was simply an inhabitant of Sodom, just as a Moabite was an inhabitant of Moab. All other words in the Bible that people misconstrue to mean homosexuality were in fact not meant to mean homosexuality at all.
If a word did NOT exist in Biblical times, then it must not be used as an accurate description of God's intentions and truth.
Proverbs 17:15: “Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent--the LORD detests them both.”
If Christ were here, he would tell you:
Do not worry about judging others, worry about how God will judge you.
Concentrate on your own sins and stop determining the sins of others.
Repent for your own sins and stop seeking repentance from others.
Save your own soul and STOP determining whose soul you must save besides your own.
Do NOT MAKE wounds were there are no wounds to be found.
Do NOT create need for those who are self efficient.
In 1 John 3:17 it is said: “But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?”
People that condemn forget that their brothers are homosexuals and therefore, ANYONE that persecutes and discriminates against a homosexual is placing them in need by condemning them.
There is no scripture where God gives any mortal man the authority to judge, malign, slander, spread or administer condemnation, exclusion, discrimination, oppression, persecution and subjugation.
There is no scripture where God gives any mortal man the exclusive right to make people repent for ANY sin.
There is no scripture where God gives any mortal man the exclusive right to determine sin.
There is no scripture where sends a homosexual or their advocates to hell.
There is no scripture where God tells any mortal man that they are required to warn others against behavior that risks eternal damnation-- like homosexuality.
There is no scripture where God tells any mortal man that homosexuality will bring them eternal damnation.
There is no scripture where God tells any mortal man that homosexuality is an abomination, immoral or a sin and you will never be able to present one in favor of your claim.
The homosexual communities are now saying to their persecutors and oppressors:
Judges 11:27: “I have not wronged you, but you are doing me wrong by waging war against me. Let the LORD, the Judge, decide the dispute this day.”
The Lord then answers:
In Exodus 23:9 it is said: “You shall not oppress a stranger:”
2 Peter 2:3: (NIV): “In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.”
1 Thessalonians 4: Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, No one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. Now about brotherly love, we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. And in fact, you do love all the brothers Yet we urge you, brothers, to do so more and more. Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business.”
It is time to open your eyes and LOOK at the damage that has been done. LOOK at all of the lies that have been spread and COUNT all of the lives that have suffered and died at the hands of these false prophets of God.
JUDGE for yourself. The truth has been uncovered, the crimes unveiled.
#1. The USA is not a Christian nation. The church must realize this.
#2. The USA is not a Heterosexual nation and Marriage is NOT an exclusive club for Christians and heterosexuals.
Although the Bible clearly is against keeping couples who want to marry a part traditional CHRISTIAN fundamentalists ban gay marriage.
1 Timothy 4:1,11,15: “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry.”
Although the Bible clearly states for us NOT to show favoritism traditional CHRISTIAN fundamentalists ban gay marriage.
James 2:1: “My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism.”
Romans 2:9: “There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: For God does not show favoritism.”
James 2:9: “But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.”
THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is open to all.
John 3:5,16: Jesus says: "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
When you are born again you get a chance to give up your mortal longings so you can live as a NEWBORN child in complete innocence and spirit.
Until a child sees a toy it does not want a toy, until a child is shown evil it does not emulate or pursue evil.
Matthew 18:3, 18: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be lost in heaven."
2 Corinthians 6:3, 6, 14: "We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left.
Luke 17:20: "Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
All who love purely and do God's loving work upon this Earth are welcome in the Kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:8: "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
2 Peter 1:5 : "Add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall"
Matthew 5:1,16: " Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Anyone who breaks one of the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 13: 16, 23, 24: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. The one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it.”
Hebrews 10:26: “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.”
Why can't the homosexuals just understand that their way of living is not excepted by all and never will be excepted by all! Every organization has the right to not let individuals in the groups.
Mind you, minorities have their own groups.
Why the hell can't we just keep some pure american traditions and not taint it.
I'm not saying gays are despicable, but I sure feel for the little boys that are being raised by women that think there men and men acting like their women. How can a young boy deal with the other boys tormenting them about the house they liven???? And yes this is going to happen! Unless someone tells the boys that they cannot speak their mind. They have the right to speak their mind!!!!!
Yeah, like the BSA's historic tradition of racially segregated troops. Why the hell did they ever stop that fine American tradition? Why did they taint our pure white troops with black kids?
Mind you, minorities have their own groups.
skrekk: Being black is not a violation of any part of the Scout law or oath. Being homosexual is. The Supreme Court has ruled that private groups may discriminate based on their beliefs.
You can throw all the stupid little tantrums you want, but the Scouts are not going to let a bunch of whiny ass liberals dictate to them what their policies are. Sorry, you'll just have to keep pissing and moaning until such time as the Supreme court rules there is no free right of association. That'll be a long time.
Go start your own perverted Gay Scouts of America if you're so hell bent on having a gay scout group. It's quite ironic that liberals are the ones always bitching about someone trying to force their beliefs on someone else. It's only when liberals try and do the same that it's just fine in their book. Well tell me skippy, just what the hell are you trying to do to the Scouts? Hypocrite.
Funny that the BSA supported racially segregated troops for so long. It seems a bigot's spots never change - they simply hate gays now instead of blacks. No surprise given that the BSA is run by Mormons and Southern Baptists, two cults founded upon racism and homophobia.
The simple fact is that the BSA has already lost the fight, they just don't know it yet. They're losing members every year, people under 30 don't support their homophobia, most of their corporate sponsors don't share their hate, and the world scouting organization already accepts gays.....as do the vast majority of scouting groups around the world. Only the BSA and scouting groups in Muslim countries are bigoted against gays. Apparently the American Taliban shares much with the Afghan Taliban.
skrekk:
Funny that most of society supported racially segregated everything for a long time too. As I said, being black is not against the Scout law or oath. Being homosexual is. The Scouts, like most of the rest of American society acknowledged that skin color should not be a hindrance for anything.
Funny, you won't find the black community being "down with the struggle" for the acceptance of homosexuality. No, in the black community, I'd say the vast majority of them resent the homosexuals trying to ride on the coattails of what they worked so hard to achieve. I'd say, when presented with the opportunity, most black preachers will shake their finger and tell their flock what an abomination homosexuality is. The fact of the matter is that blacks do not condone homosexuality.
I will never accept homosexuality as being "normal". It is not something that I was taught. It was not something that I was indoctrinated with. It is natural repulsion to the act of homosexuality. It is as much a natural repulsion for me as it is a natural attraction for homosexuals.
As far as the Scouts are concerned, if someone doesn't wish to join because of their policies, I have no problem with that. Don't join. I'm fine with that. I can assure you that if the BSA were to change their policies to accept homosexuals, then their membership would decline exponentially as fast since many of those in Scouting at present would leave immediately if the policy were to be changed.
And yet the NAACP supports marriage equality and calls it "the civil rights issue of our time." Apparently they understand that a denial of equal protection is indeed a civil rights issue.
And given the BSA's historic tradition of racism, I doubt the BSA will get much sympathy at all from the black community.
My earlier point (which I believe has been intentionally missed by Oregon, Shrekk, Rev Marie, etc) could best be illustrated by a parable:
When I was 14 years old, there was a boy in our school who simply didn't fit in. He was not interested in what we were interested in and he was in general a downer - always playing the victim and complaining about everything. The school leaders got a call from his parents and rounded up the 6 or 7 of us who lived on his block. We were told in no uncertain terms that we WOULD be his friend and that we WERE to involve him in everything we did. In other words, we were mandated to be his friends. We begrudgingly went through the motions, putting in minimal effort until the school year ended a few months later.
It was a negative experience for all involved. The boy knew we didn't really want to be around him and he knew we knew it. Had he been encouraged to make other friends and/or stopped playing the victim, I think he would have done much better. He moved away, then moved back senior year of High School. Happy ending is we became friends and have kept in touch ever since.
Moral of the story is you CANNOT force people to associate with, befriend, etc. someone else. It's far from genuine on either side and merely builds resentment. The right to association is one of the last freedoms we have left.
I personally have gay friends but it is by MY choice - not by assignment or edict. Leave the BSA alone. Most the people commenting on here don't even care about the organization just like they don't care about any of the churches they slam.
I never intentionally avoided any point you made, but I am not going to address every point you and everyone else makes. I really don't have that much time. I worked 6 days last week and I worked 11 hours today (Monday).
You certainly haven't addressed every point I have made.
Get a life.
Kudos to the Scouts for not caving in to the wants of gays. Just because they "want" to be included doesn't mean the organization must accept them. They are the ones that don't qualify. They are the ones that must understand they can't always do what they want. Other people have standards. If they don't fit them, too bad. Let them start the gay & lesbian scouts and fight to keep straight people out of their organization. (although I seriously doubt that would be an issue). Our society keeps abandoning its priciples and morals and is losing its identity. It's becoming a free for all where anything goes. What's next.....allow non-disabled people to join the disabled veterans association?
Ironic that the world scouting movement was founded by a gay dude, eh?
Good for the Boy Scouts!! Nice to see that some organizations are still standing up for whats right.
You consider bigotry "right".
Noted. Thanks for making your nature so clearly known.
If you made your own private club, especially one where you did not want certain people joining for whatever reason (women, men, LGBT's, people with criminal histories, republicans, democrats, etc.) would you be very happy if the government forced you, or other people's clamoring forced you to, accept the people you swore you would never accept for any reason whatsoever? for liberals, they may not want criminals or pedophiles who were recently released from prison to join their special clubs. republicans are no different, but their group that they don't want in their club (or even to serve or interact with) is much bigger than the democratic-leaning individuals. Instead of including just criminals, ex-cons, pedophiles who just served their 70 year terms and are out on parole, or any sex offender who was just released, the blacklist of republicans, conservatives and religious clubs includes homosexuals, bisexuals, transgenders, people who favor abortions, and adulterers (in an ideal world, most of the club members of certain religious clubs would be kicked out, for offenses ranging from holding a positive viewpoint on abortion to masturbating in private (if they confessed to it)). The point is that the boy scouts are just like everybody else: everybody has their "Blacklist" of people they can't stand, or hate, including gays and lesbians! so live and let live. Let the LGBT community create their own organization of scouts, but they will also have a right, just as the Boy Scouts have a right, to not accept or kick out members of their organization that are on their "Blacklist:" homophobes and criminals and sex offenders alike!
When the BSA renounces its federal charter and any special privileges the government affords the group as a result of their federal charter, you can raise that issue. Until then, live with the fact that the BSA is not just a private organization and therefore is subject to public scrutiny, even though the offensive actions they take are actions you like.
The BSA is a NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION: just like the United Way, Salvation Army, Catholic Church, Boys and Girls clubs of America... the list goes on and on. They are not receiving any special treatment that these other charities are not: a non-profit organization is not out to make money; the are like a corporation whose "profits" are not in credits or cash, they are in lives. How so? they are changing lives with their services, and some do not receive money for what they do. They are forced to fund raise and accept donations if they wish to stay extant. The way the government "helps" these charities is not through positive reinforcement, but negative reinforcement (I.e. giving non-profit status that conveys a smaller tax percentage that will be taken during tax season.) many new clubs need only play the "nonprofit" card to receive the same benefits. Any new club for gays that they create will, if they play the nonprofit card, receive the same perks as the boy scouts. So in a way, this system is fair: the boy scouts are being treated like all the other organizations that are non-profit, and any new club for LBGTs will receive the same benefits if they become non-profit. That way, everything is fair.
The BSA has a federal charter and receives federal money, which means that it receives taxpayer money. It does not matter if they are a for-profit or non-profit entity; what matters is that it receives federal taxpayer funds, which means that it cannot violate federal law by discriminating.
Why can't a gay scouting organization get a federal charter too? It probably is not that hard, and it gives people choices; one organization for religious people who want Boy Scouting to retain it's cultural and religious values of duty to God and Country, to help other people at all times, and to be physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. As an Eagle Scout that aged out of the scouting program a few years ago, I always wondered when things like this issue came up what was the big deal with the gays? What would be so hard about starting a new gay scouts of America with a federal charter instead of pestering the older Boy Scouting organization about changing their creed and morals. I'm sorry if you're pissed because you cannot join the boy scouts, but the Boy Scouts ARE NOT going to strike out "do my duty to GODand my country" and "To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and MORALLY STRAIGHT" from their creed and their motto, and that would forever sully the Boy Scout's moral standing in the eyes of God. Would it not be easier to make a whole new organization with a federal charter that says "I will do my duty to my country" rather than to God and country and "To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and not morally straight" to it's values than to force a change on an organization that would rather be left alone?
Actually, I'm a straight, married woman -- and I have no sons, so this was never an issue in my house; I simply support equality and abhor discrimination.
This comment reflects a distinct lack of understanding of what it takes to get a federal charter, and a distinct lack of understanding of US law.
The BSA's federal charter was a reflection of its legacy, not something it acquired by direct application. Among other things, it shields the BSA from legal actions based on its monopolistically-dominant "position in the marketplace" which, absent the charter, would be firm basis for breaking the organization up, a move that would be appropriate, consistent with our nation's laws, and necessary to support the development of a competing scouting organization. The existence of the federal charter simultaneously serves as a barrier to entry for another entry and thereby incurs onto the BSA the requirement to be the nation's scouting organization for boys.
This does indicate, incidentally, why the BSA doesn't just walk away from its federal charter. As a stand-alone, private organization, without the protection of the federal charter, it hold far too much anti-competitive power to escape legal action on that basis.
I understand the basis for your complaints, but in regards to WaltUU and ErinNJ's comments, it is obvious that you fail to understand the feelings of the majority of scouters who do not support homosexuals joining the group and you fail to understand the ramifications of what such an event would do to the BSA: without it's central tenants intact, what would essentially happen is the Boy Scouts of America would go from a God-fearing, morally cognizant group that teaches boys the basis of being FAITHFUL to their chosen religion and doing a duty to their GOD and their COUNTRY, along with teaching them morals and other skills that have applications in the real world, would essentially go to being NOTHING. An analogy to the Boy Scouts going from being the organization they are today to one that violates it's own central tenant of being faithful to one's God and country and having religious morals and being faithful to them would be like a good man getting in a car crash and getting irreversible brain damage that damaged his frontal cortex and the centralized area that monitors his good behavior. at best, this man would live and be forever like Phineas Gage; a formally good man who became immoral, immature, and unfaithful for the rest of his life with the death of the part of his brain that allowed him to be moral, mature, faithful, and a good man. At worst, that man would die. Walt, Erin, you are not faithful to any God, nor are you of the mind that the world requires morals that are founded in any religion that supports any good morals. I would guess from your previous arguments that your version of morals comes from an individualized preconceived notion of how the world should be run and your own personal beliefs of morality that are independent of any authority and are made to suit you but perhaps not the morals of the people around you. That said, if you fail to understand the minds of others around you and you fail to recognize that the federal laws of the United States fails to outlaw discrimination of sexual orientation on a national level do not exist, (true, several local municipalities around the country outlaw discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, but at the national level, no such laws exist, and the BSA is a NATIONAL organization) then you do not recognize any views but your own.
Unreg
Do the Boy Scouts allow Divorced and Remarried people to lead?
If so then they already accept people that are not faithful to the word of God.
Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
Mark 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
1 Corinthians 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
A Husband and wife are BOUND together until death do they part.
You can choose to marry and often choose to divorce, you can't choose your orientation.
They can claim Homosexuality is a sin, but that doesn't mean it is a choice.
The problem with all of these anti-gay groups --- Hypocrisy.
As I've said before: if you consider ignorance, bigotry, and homophobia "morals," then the BSA is the organization for you.
Sure, THOSE are "skills that have applications in the real world". /sarc
JOregon: Even if what you are saying is true, the issue does not lie there; even if the boy scouts did allow a few divorced or remarried leaders to join, one of the federal laws against discrimination is that you cannot discriminate against marital status: however, sexual orientation is not protected by a federal law so therefore the boy scouts are not breaking any federal laws, even though, as you say, they are not entirely faithful to their own beliefs by allowing divorced or remarried people to lead. In a perfect world, divorced or remarried people could not lead in scouts, only send their kids to scouts. But they could not take a leadership position.
Sad isn't it?
ErinNJ: I am talking about the merit badges that scouts can earn (hiking, camping, fishing, wildlife study, fish and wildlife management, leadership in the community, leadership in the nation, leadership in the world, metalworking, etc.) when I talk about other skills that have application in the real world, not just being faithful to your God. Should the boy scouts get rid of these skills and these merit badges along with the policy that forbids gays from joining? they are kind of a package.
JOregon: It may be sad, but only if you are not Catholic, Muslim, or Jewish, and as long as you are not too devout. I feel that it may be unfair to some who are not given a choice about their homosexuality, but it ultimately is a fair one for the vast numbers of devout Catholics, Muslims, Jews, and other religious who chose the Boy Scouts as a safe haven to express their religion outside of church; one of the only safe places to do so nowadays with so many nonbelievers and atheists trying to outlaw religious expression outside the church or place of worship.
They should also speak out on the marriage issue if they are being true to the faith. They Don't.
It is called hypocrisy.
The scouts I was in tried to include people. Sure, at the time Gays were in the closet. But the mentality has changed today they follow the practice of excluding people.
Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
That marriage issue is a huge beam in the eye of the religious nutcases that have twisted the bible to hate gays.
The bible tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Don't underestimate us - it just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. We know that the BSA adopting a policy of affirming and promoting the worth and dignity of all people, and of demonstrating respect for others, will have a very significant positive impact on the BSA, a very significant positive impact on every boy that goes through the program, and a very significant positive impact on the society that has granted a special charter to the BSA.
Bigotry and hate are not morally cognizant. Bigotry and hate is not about being faithful. Bigotry and hate betray God and the country. You're advocating allowing the BSA to remain a den of immoral evil. You, like the BSA that you support, demonstrate a distinct lack of understanding of God's vision and a distinct lack of understanding for what's righteous and honorable.
What a sinful assertion you have made - you have committed hubris at its worst. Clearly Erin and I are far more faithful to God than anyone who supports bigotry and hatred, those things that you support the BSA in its performance of. You venerate evil, and that's shockingly despicable.
Clearly, you are describing yourself, since "the people around me" believe in affirming the worth and dignity of every person, and "the people around me" hold to strongly moral tenets that make it clear that that which you support is evil and a betrayal of God.
Why are you posting such ridiculous nonsense? No one, not even someone drowning in the muck of bigotry and hatred, could possibly believe that hiking, camping, fishing, wildlife study, fish and wildlife management, leadership in the community, leadership in the nation, leadership in the world, metalworking, etc. require the evil you claim they require. No one could possibly believe that demonstrating useful skills and capabilities require evil, self-serving and spiteful antipathy toward those who serve God differently. So what possible reason could you have for working so hard to promote an assertion that you know no one will believe that even you believe yourself?
Bravo, Walt, for making an entirely personal and vicious attack against my character; you do this with everyone who disagrees with you? I might recall that the issue lies not with what you think, or even what the gay community thinks, but with what is law. There IS NO federal law that protects sexual orientation as a protected status. If there was (heaven forbid) I would not be making this argument. I never said I hated gays (I hate people who make personal attacks against me without ever meeting me in person), I just said that they should not try to enforce a law that does not exist. My, you must be one of those extremist gays; the kind like the ALF is for animals and the ELF is for the environment and like the Mujahideen is for islamic shariah law and like the zionist movement is for jews an like the KKK and Imperial Klans of America is for white people and the Black Panthers are for black people. I think all these groups are bad... period. I would loathe to see a new hate group for gay extremists formed that would attack religiously conscious people for their beliefs: the Catholic church and Christians everywhere are already under attack from atheists and other groups who are extremely secular. We do not want to have to bow down for another.
You seem to feel persecuted for not having an unrebutted soap-box to spew your support for bigotry and hate. You should realize that if you're going to promote such offensive perspectives that folks will indeed object to what you've written. You shouldn't, as you've done here, misconstrue those repudiations of your unskillful remarks as attacking you personally. No one here knows, nor really cares, about you personally. As a discussion forum, all that matters is what you write.
What is strange is that you tried to tie the vacuous self-pity you posted back to the legal matters, without acknowledging the reality of the federal charter and its implications for the organizations that accept such a charge. Ignoring the reality doesn't enhance your comments' credibility - quite the opposite.
There are state laws in many states that establish sexual orientation as a protected class vis a vis anti-discrimination laws. It is incumbent upon all organizations operating in those states to comply fully with those laws, even if it means having completely different rules for their divisions that operate in those states, and ensure that national and international operations don't force such divisions to operate contrary to the local laws. Your failure to realize that your favored BSA fails to respect the laws of all the states within which it operates shows that you are not addressing this matter with a fully-informed perspective.
By the way, I'm not gay. Your assumption that I am is another indicator of how crippled your position is by false assumptions and other prejudices. The failure to recognize that good people oppose bigotry and hatred even when it does not affect them personally is another reason to discredit your comments.
You seem to be mourning the fact that different groups no longer bow down to the perspectives of the groups you belong to, that your perspective no longer holds sway over others, and that you are no longer able to assert that people should do as you want them to do instead of living in accordance with their own beliefs and values. This is one of the fundamental problems that right-wing reactionaries in our society exhibit - the inability to accept that their particular perspectives are fine, when applied to how they should live their own lives, conduct their own families, manage their own homes and churches, but that it is wholly immoral to act to have those perspectives apply to other people's lives, other people's families, other people's homes and churches. Outside your own body, your own family, your own home and your own church, in contexts where groups operate according to federal charters or offer public accommodations, there is no place for imposition of your own chosen dogma. It is critical to learn to traffic with others peaceably and respecting the rights of others to live their own lives according to their own beliefs and values, even in a federally-chartered group you run or a business you own.
Wow, Walt: are you wrong again! I'm not a republican, except for wanting gun rights to be enshrined permanently in the Constitution with no risk of destruction, and wanting to protect a religious group of any kind (which the scouts are) from having to accept a group that would make things severely awkward if they were allowed to join (i.e. gays raping straight scouts). On ALL other issues, I am either left-wing, independent or green in my beliefs. My dad has often told me that I would be disowned if I were gay. Thank the Lord that I am not; I am glad not because I fear being disowned: I would disown my own children if they were gay, quite happily. Hypothetically, if I were gay, I would happily accept being disowned because I find that I would deserve it, if that were the case. The reason I am glad I am not gay is because I find homosexuality repulsive without using any religious contexts and without any religious overtones. I find it repulsive intrinsically, just as I think that, even for a very attractive woman, it would put me off my lunch to see her vomit in public. The "ewww" factor does not extend to women or sex involving women and men, but even thinking about two guys or two girls making out makes my stomach churn and it feels like rocks are doing a salsa in my gastric tract. As others who have supported the BSA's decision have said, I believe that if you allowed gay scouts into scouting, (or gay leaders) it would be like putting a fox in the henhouse. It is likely to BACKFIRE real quick. If I had a kid who was gay, I would not hesitate to disown him/her because as you said: my house, my rules. However, there is NO federal law protecting sexual orientation. We have to preserve the Federal government's stance on this because of one reason. Let's say that, oh, I don't know, Florida upheld the Stand Your Ground Law but the law was so heavily amended that if someone assaulted not your person but your dignity (i.e. insulted you) you could blast them with your shotgun, M14, M4A16, etc. Or let's say that Georgia decided to legalize hunting an animal that was on the critically endangered species list whose home range was found only in Georgia but nowhere else in the world. In both these cases, the federal laws override both hypothetical laws in both states and put sanctions on the states and find the laws unconstitutional. AND, where the state laws impede the first amendment rights of a business or organization, (cough cough the Boy Scouts,) as they do with this law, then the federal laws take precedent over any state law that prevents the first amendment rights of an organization, (especially a federal organization) who might have that right in one state but another state might be blocking that first amendment right. Always in those cases, both in the ones involving SYG and the endangered species, along with the Boy Scout case, the federal law protects the innocent, the poor animals, and the innocence of young scouts, respectively. Common sense, right? not to you.
I didn't say you were, so clearly you're now trying to wiggle out from having to defend what you've written by posting pointlessly tangential drivel. Meanwhile, you actually did imply I was gay, when I am not. You haven't admitted your error yet. Is the inability to admit clearly demonstrable errors you've made a hallmark of your perspective?
This bit of ignorant hate-speech is inexcusable. You have ruined whatever credibility you may have ever had for anything you might ever write on the topic.
What I worry about is that this comment may emanate from the kind of thing that I expressed concern about in my earlier message - about how institutions such as the BSA that are allowed to continue to instill such hate into the hearts and minds of thousands upon thousand are weakening the nation and are the proximate cause of injustice - and even to some extent violence - in our society. Such institutions foster people unable or unwilling to act civilized among others.
I'm beginning to think that you're now just deliberately crafting the most offensively horrendous things to write. The disgusting nature of the concepts and perspectives you're expressing in these statements are undeniable, and utterly without any redeeming value to society as-a-whole. The defense for self-hate, in the context of expressing hate, compounds the offense.
I find your hateful comments intrinsically repulsive, yet I condemn only the comments and the perspective underlying them - I don't condemn you as a person based on your posting of those comments; I don't seek to have you ostracized from society, deny you the right to marry or adopt, or withhold employment from you.
The self-centered arrogance of translating one's own personal lack of capacity to accept other people living in accordance with their own beliefs and values logically should disqualify the hateful person from the reciprocal consideration for acceptance of living in accordance with their own beliefs and values - the Golden Rule says so - yet truly moral people would still grant such hateful people such consideration despite those expressions of hate.
Repeating hate-inspired ignorance doesn't make it any less hateful or less ignorant.
I don't doubt that some of the more hateful people would work very hard to create such situations. The question is whether good men and women of character will allow such hateful people to dictate society through such threats. Are we mice or honorable people?
The delay in extending that protection being reflection of the innate immorality of the right-wing reactionaries trying not only to stall our nation's moral development in its tracks but actually roll it back to some earlier, more barbaric state, where, perhaps, "coloreds and wimmin knew their place", or some-such.
Stop making excuses for inexcusable hate.
Perhaps in the context of inexcusable hate. The failures in your logic, though, are myriad, though you'll probably beat your chest repeatedly to shake from yourself any capacity to understand those failures of logic.
First, the law always places life on par with life; then health on par with health; and then property on par with property. (One's reputation is an abstract form of property. Look it up.) So, the correct analog of your first scenario is the protection against despoiling someone else's reputation in the case where they have despoiled yours, and therefore it doesn't support what you wished it supported.
Second, your second scenario doesn't even support your perspective. The natural expansion of protections against discrimination after a pattern of such discrimination is demonstrated is actually supported by your second scenario, where a federal law protecting endangered animals is expanded whenever a species is determined to have become endangered.
Your failure to understand the nature of the law is prodigious, and combined with a natural intransigence stemming from the basis of the hate-speech you posted earlier may very well preclude your willingness to understand and/or acknowledge the logical errors you've made. It's a shame.
It is ok if your views are pro gay, but not if your anti-gay? Why are the gays so afraid of the Boy Scouts. Start your own Scouting and stop trying to shove your view in everyone's face.
How come the gay world don't respect the rights or views of others?
Yes: Being in favor of affirming and promoting the dignity and worth of others is "ok" - being opposed to affirming and promoting the dignity and worth of others is not.
Compassionate toward others = Good
Offensively bigoted toward others = Bad
Who said anyone was "afraid" of anyone? Are you replying without having read the article or any replies? Or are you just making up bull just so you have something nasty to say about people you hate?
There already is a scouting organizations with a federal charter. There is no need to start another scouting organization that wouldn't have such a charter. If you don't like the kind of scrutiny BSA gets because they have a federal charter, then have them renounce the federal charter and all the benefits thereof, and have the BSA stop trying to shove offensive bigotry in everyone's faces.
You've foolishly allowed yourself first to fall into the trap of deceiving yourself into thinking that only homosexuals oppose bigotry. I'm not a homosexual, yet I condemn the immoral actions of the BSA on basic moral principles that perhaps you'll see fit to reject out of some misplaced sense of loyalty to an immoral perspective. Beyond that, you've foolishly allowed yourself second to fall into the trap of the paradox of tolerance, failing to heed the words of recognized experts such as Karl Popper. It is irrational to claim the right to be intolerant, as you are claiming on behalf of the BSA. Intolerance - of homosexuals or of any specific group on the basis of their innate aspects (i.e., those things that are within the context of their own bodies, of their own homes, of their own families, and of their own churches) - is unjust and self-condemning (because if fails the simplest test of morality, the Golden Rule). Just objections are only those objections to that which results in impact beyond the actor's own just and inviolable realm (again, one's own body, one's own home, one's own family, and one's own church). In this case, the only people committing actions that are condemnable on rational, moral grounds is the BSA, since they are firing people and excluding certain people as members (note how those actions have impact outside their own just and inviolable realm) without just and inviolable cause.
I realize that this rational, moral argument might go over the heads of people who are just looking to satisfy their own prurient desire to spew hateful bigotry, but that's just a broader reflection of the problem that is exemplified by the BSA's actions.
FINALLY an organization that will NOT bow down to public outcries and pressure!!
What a boring subjct! The Boy Scouts of America organization should have the right to say whether they want gays in their organization. And for such a large organization, America contributes one million dollars -- whoopee!!! Everybody needs to stop worrying about any amenities the BSA has or is given and MYOB. They are a good organization. My husband was a scout master years ago. That is probably why he was such a wonderful kind person. The BSA makes good men out of what might otherwise not be good men. And someone made a comment that scout masters had molested some of the boys. Don't remember anybody else ever saying this. Why didn't somebody fess up and push the issue? I could care less what the gays do, but I think BSA has a right to do whatever they want in regards to admitting gays. I will buy popcorn from the BSA and cookies from the girl scouts!! Most of our people on here do not have much of a life. I obviously don't right now, but that is because I am widowed and unemployed. If I find something better to do, I'll stop reading these comments. But for right now, I need a few good laughs. BTW, a lot of the meetings, etc. are held in church fellowship halls. So, you want the good ole govenment to stop helping scouts -- and also to make churches pay taxes. Your opinions suck!! But, hopefully the God some of you do not believe in will bless you all in some way - and look over your iniquities since some of you are obviously hopeless.
That still means those are taxpayer funds, which means that BSA is not a totally private organization.
Sure, if by "good organization," you mean that they foster ignorance, bigotry, and homophobia. Is THAT what your late husband stood for?
Do you not understand what "coverup" means?
I was thinking the same about you.
So the analogy is that gays are a virus and the Christian Right is the white corpuscles. Only thing is that when the corpuscles have finished their job on the virus, all you have left is pus.