Dear MOM: OPEN your own organization.

BGLCGME????? im not sure of the rest of the letters.

My point is .

Start a private program that is open to your beliefs in an effort to validate your sexual position.

Don't try to wedge into a private group that does not want you.

@imrightnotyou

Think about it this way, the Boy Scouts, since conception has been a pedophiles dream job. For all these many years, they have gotten away with it, but now ex scouts are coming forward, and complaining about sexual abuse as a child. Now remember this is "BOY" scouts. Not girl scouts. What damage will a lesbian do to a young boy, more devastating than a pedophilic male would do. None, they are not interested in sexual relations with a young boy. The big fear would be lesbians working in the girl scouts. No harm, no foul in the boy scouts. Big fear for them working in the girl scouts.

Note to lesbians and all homosexuals, we fully expect you to continue to infiltrate the activities of children who cannot defend themselves against the children of satan. Your father satan will never stop because he knows that the children are easy marks and can be brain washed into excepting this abomination of sins, and destroyer of familys. There will be a day of reckoning for you children of satan and God will send you to a place where you will suffer pain and torment thru out eternity.

I also add that homosexuals should never be given custody of children. It is bad enought for them to learn that their world has fallen apart because of a parent who chooses to live for satan. A homosexual should never be allowed to adopt children either, what I am saying is you should crawl back into the hole you came out of. I know a young girl who's mother decided after several years of marriage that she was a lesbian and left her husband, this child was given custody to her mother and turned to drugs and sex to attempt to deal with this perversion, sadly she is still after two years addicted to drugs and as a prostitute to get money for the drugs. You people are the worst of the worst, all you do is destroy your own lives and drag others down with you.

Truth is, everyone is different and everyone has their belief system based off of something. You can not appease everyone in this world. Someone is going to have to just deal with it and get used to it. In this situation you have the very few minority trying to push their views and agenda on the Vast majority. If anything, liberaly speaking you should see the double edged sword your portraying here. Its ok when its your way and your beliefs, but when its not your belief system then the other side is wrong, and they must conform to your views. IN this case no one is attacking gays, but instead an organization who has their belief and values based off of the unity of One man one woman, and also to be the most ideal parenting a child can have with family structure. There is nothing wrong with that belief. So here we are now with liberals who cajnt take no for an answer, and will keep crying and whining causing mischief for the BSA. I Hope that the BSA keep strong in their beliefs , and dont cave in to the politically correct agendas of the left.

If anything these agenda pushing people should try and start themselves a new organization of , LGBT Scouts and see how that takes off. It should be a smash hit since everyone seems to think we need to be a liberal USA .

In this situation you have the very few minority trying to push their views and agenda on the Vast majority.

Since we are not a country of majority rule, what the "vast majority" wants is irrelevant. And just what is being "pushed" on you?

also to be the most ideal parenting a child can have with family structure.

Pure, unadulterated bull@!$%#:

Although it is sometimes asserted in policy debates that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same-sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children raised by heterosexual parents, those assertions find no support in the scientific research literature. When comparing the outcomes of different forms of parenting, it is critically important to make appropriate comparisons. For example, differences resulting from the number of parents in a household cannot be attributed to the parents’ gender or sexual orientation. Research in households with heterosexual parents generally indicates that – all else being equal – children do better with two parenting figures rather than just one. The specific research studies typically cited in this regard do not address parents’ sexual orientation, however, and therefore do not permit any conclusions to be drawn about the consequences of having heterosexual versus non-heterosexual parents, or two parents who are of the same versus different genders. Indeed, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has been remarkably consistent in showing that lesbian and gay parents are every bit as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, National Association of Social Workers, American Academy of Pediatrics, 2006

So here we are now with liberals who cajnt take no for an answer, and will keep crying and whining causing mischief for the BSA.

Hey, if you conservaturds stop telling lies about us liberals, we'll stop telling the truth about you conservaturds. It's much harder to be a liberal than a conservaturd, because it's much easier to give someone the finger than to lend a helping hand.

Of course the liberal left would cite liberal views.

Was reading a forum where some people were talking about their interactions with tha APA.

I work closely with the APA in my current Master's Program. Psychology is a soft science and it is very much affected in its conclusions by the presuppositions that a person brings to the field.
My experience is that, like a great deal of academia, it tends to be more liberal relative to the general population.

Friday, Jul 20, 2012

American Psychological Association Pushing 'Ultra-Liberal' Agenda, Says Former President
Dr. Nicholas Cummings, who was once president of the American Psychological Association, says the organization that he once ran is being controlled by "ultra-liberals" who are working tirelessly to promote and advance the gay advocacy agenda.

During an interview with the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), Cummings explained that he saw the mentality of the organization change following the adoption of the Leona Tyler Principle 1973, which required that all positions made public by the APA be supported with scientific evidence. He noticed the organization venturing further away from the positions laid forth by the Leona Tyler Principle.

Cummings, who was president of the APA from 1979 to 1980, explained that the organization "started changing pretty drastically by the late 1980s."

"By the mid-1990s, the Leona Tyler principle was absolutely forgotten, that political stances seemed to override any scientific results. Cherry-picking results became the mode. The gay rights movement sort of captured the APA," he explained.

Cummings went on to detail that he is not against the gay rights movement, including same-sex marriage, stating that he was one of those involved in getting homosexuality removed from the APA's list of mental diseases.

But Cummings was perturbed with the continual trend demonstrated by the organization of venturing further and further away from scientific objectivity with regard to certain controversial topics such as reparative therapy for homosexuality.

Follow us

"I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological," said the former president. "And it passed the Council of Representatives. And that was the first issue that came up. I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research. It was never done."

During his time at the APA, Cummings was also a member of the organization's Council of Representatives. After his time at the APA came to an end, he was the Chief of Mental Health with the Kaiser-Permanente Health Maintenance Organization. He also wrote the book Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well-Intentioned Path to Harm.

In the end of all of this Erin, there is no unbiased point of view in this debate.

Since we are not a country of majority rule, what the "vast majority" wants is irrelevant. And just what is being "pushed" on you?

Its what is being pushed on the Boy Scouts. The vast majority do not want gays in a leadership position. They have that right, and this woman who was let go just cant seem to let it go. I hope the Boy scouts stand strong in THEIR belief. They are not the ones on the offensive here, its the attacks from the gay agenda trying to push their belief system on others and accept their lifestyle.

Of course the APA is ultra-liberal -- because their statements completely contradict YOUR beliefs. FYI, Dr. Cummings is apparently now affiliated with NARTH, a known anti-gay hate group whose policies and studies have been debunked by reputable medical organizations.

They have that right, and this woman who was let go just cant seem to let it go.

Since the BSA has a federal charter and accepts taxpayer funds in the form of free use of public areas for meetings and other events, whether "they have that right" seems to be part of the issue.

its the attacks from the gay agenda trying to push their belief system on others and accept their lifestyle.

What "belief system" is being pushed on them? And how is "acceptance" being forced on them? All homosexuals are asking is to be included as scoutmasters and as scouts, not that the BSA endorse homosexuality.

Accepting tax dollars is still a grey area, but nothing quite in stone, so therefor it still is a private organization. How would you like if s group came to your home and repainted the walls and redid everything that is against your liking, and you had to live in that house.. What right would those people have to come to your own private setting and change what you feel is right about your home. Now apply that to a Private group who have a belief in Godly moral values, and feel that leadership done by a gay person is not in their best interest. How one sided can you be ? Its ok for anyone else to have a view and belief as long as its not a conservative, religious belief. Like it or not they have every right to stand by what they believe, and you should be thankful your living in a country that allows people to have their own beliefs and opinions. Stay out of their business.

What right would those people have to come to your own private setting and change what you feel is right about your home.

Bad analogy; my home is not publicly funded, as the BSA is. ANY organization that accepts tax dollars in support of that organization is a public organization.

Now apply that to a Private group who have a belief in Godly moral values, and feel that leadership done by a gay person is not in their best interest.

What kind of "godly moral values" are homophobia, ignorance, and bigotry?

Its ok for anyone else to have a view and belief as long as its not a conservative, religious belief.

Conservative, religious beliefs are just fine -- except when those who have such beliefs attempt to use them to justify their homophobia, ignorance, and bigotry.

I do not take orders from you, and I will most certainly NOT stay out of their business as long as MY tax dollars are being used to help them stay IN business.

Bad analogy; my home is not publicly funded, as the BSA is. ANY organization that accepts tax dollars in support of that organization is a public organization.

Wrong, your tax dollars dont go to them. They are allowed to go to government facility, but even if the government stops them from going to it, it still makes them a private organization. They accept money from private parties. They are exempt from your liberal views , and thankfully protected by law from your attacks.

What kind of "godly moral values" are homophobia, ignorance, and bigotry?

Nothing homophobic about it. If i dont want my kids around people who practice homosexual activities, then I have that right. Who are you telling me that I have to accept a lifestyle, Push your agenda on someone else , Bigot.

Conservative, religious beliefs are just fine -- except when those who have such beliefs attempt to use them to justify their homophobia, ignorance, and bigotry.

God you all liberal minds are all alike. All views are ok as long as it doesnt conflict with yours. Anyone who has an opposite view of homosexuality is a Homophobe. Your ridiculous in your reasoning.

I do not take orders from you, and I will most certainly NOT stay out of their business as long as MY tax dollars are being used to help them stay IN business.

Your tax dollars are not going to them. They are private. I dont hear your sympathizing about my tax dollars going to government funded abortions which it shoudlnt be, but it is.

You really need to drop the homophobic card , it gets old. A Moral and Godly belief of Man and woman to be together is normal thinking, to accept two of the same sex is abnormal. You seem to think I hate gays, its in your mind that anyone who has an opposite view of you are automatic haters. Instead you should try to think about people who want to hold onto traditional values that worked great , of Man and woman, who compliment each other in every way. I stand in that view of morality and The Norm .

Wrong, your tax dollars dont go to them. They are allowed to go to government facility, but even if the government stops them from going to it, it still makes them a private organization. They accept money from private parties.

What part of THEY HAVE A FEDERAL CHARTER do you not understand? They get federal money, which means they get taxpayer money. In addition, they are allowed the use of public buildings, such as schools, for holding their meetings -- which other private groups must pay for. Therefore, they are not exempt from federal anti-discrimination laws.

If i dont want my kids around people who practice homosexual activities, then I have that right.

You and your children most likely are "around people who practice homosexual activities" every day of your lives, and you don't even know it. Too bad bigoted pigs like you can't live in the slime you try to spread.

Who are you telling me that I have to accept a lifestyle

And who is telling you that you have to "accept" anything, pig? This is not about the acceptance of bigots like you (because gays do not care about the acceptance of ignorant bigoted homophobes like you); this is about equal treatment under the law.

They are private. I dont hear your sympathizing about my tax dollars going to government funded abortions which it shoudlnt be, but it is.

Another bad analogy; there is something called the Hyde Amendment which explicitly prevents federal funds from being used to pay for abortions, except in cases of rape, incest, or medical necessity, in which cases they are mandated -- there is NO law that prevents the BSA from receiving federal funds although they actively engage in discrimination while accepting taxpayer funds, which means that they are NOT private.

YOU need to get over yourself. You don't like being called a homophobe? Then stop being one.

Erin im done talking to you. Your ad hominems of calling me a pig is unacceptable , and violation of the rules on here. Until you apologize, I have nothing more to say to you.

Hopefully the moderator will catch it and give you a day off from the boards.

I believe you've done some name-calling yourself.

As my friend, allswell, says, "Don't take the high ground while standing in a ditch."

Marmaduke49

Erin im done talking to you. Your ad hominems of calling me a pig is unacceptable , and violation of the rules on here. Until you apologize, I have nothing more to say to you.

Hopefully the moderator will catch it and give you a day off from the boards.

#3.13 - Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:26 PM EDT

ErinNJ is the first member of my "ignore" list for being a bigoted troll. I don't generally approve of the "ignore" function, but when someone consistently engages in ad hominem attacks and fails to provide informed debate, there is little else to do. I wouldn't hold my breath for the moderator noticing her actions, as she has been on these boards a while without getting the boot. Just add her to your ignore list, send an e-mail to a moderator, and move on. There are plenty of rational and intelligent people on here to discuss issues with.

Thank you Jim. She has false beliefs of the BSA, and so many other topics i have seen her talk about. We all have our own opinions I guess whether true or not.

That's a very Republican tactic, ignoring all comments that refute their preferences.

sometimes you have to ignore the ones who have their own set agenda and live in their own liberal worlds. ANy other belief except the liberal main stream world view is wrong in your alls minds. There is a lot more to society than just liberal thinking.

But yet you stand behind them, therefore, you support the decision.

I also support the fact that they stood their ground. Is Augusta National allowing female members? That has been challenged several times over the past decade and they also stood their ground.

If you have a problem with it then start your own club.

I support the kids. It is the reason I am there. I don't support the fact the a rule was broken by allowing her to be a leader to begin with. When you teach the boys to always obey the rules this is a double standard. You have to practice what you preach and she broke the rule before she tried to change it which is against what we teach.

As far as I am concerned, the right decision was handed down. I was a scoutmaster for 15 years and did my best to shape and mold young men in adult men with good morals. I am very happy that I gave that part of my life helping these young confused minds go in a positive direction. A couple of years ago one of my scouts that I haven't heard from in years called me out of the blue just to thank me for everything I had done for him. He now has a son and is involved in scouting and wants him to grow up like him. Again, the right decision was handed down.

No one required her to join the souts. They made a right choice to stand for a principle. But what else would you expect a Scout to do, cave becuase it is PC.

I for one was glad my grandsons and their parents all quit the scouts over this. Both parents of all involved are hetero couples. Just because ones personal choices are as they are doesn't affect their abilities to teach the children.

An additional note- I was a den master for my sons and they were for theirs.

You can't put boys and girls in a tent on a camp out for for obvious reasons.Just like you wouldn't take young adults that claim to be gay camping together.If gay people want to start a gay scouting program they are free to do so.This is a free country however it does not seem to be an idea that would work or be popular. Additionally children should not be forced to deal with an adults sexual orientation as a result of joining the boy scouts as life in this day and age is difficult enough .Its supposed to be about kids and not about adults.

The whole issue has been shoved in our faces because of poor leadership on the part of the president.He wanted to get reelected and played the gay rights card.Will he feel this way when they begin teaching his grandchildren how to practice safe same sex relationships in public school?The whole gay agenda has been forced on us from Hollywood and the media.They glamorize behavior such as drugs, smoking,violence,drinking,and lack of morality.television is entertainment and shouldn't be an example of how we should be living our lives.

Stephen Nicholsvia Facebook

I for one was glad my grandsons and their parents all quit the scouts over this. Both parents of all involved are hetero couples. Just because ones personal choices are as they are doesn't affect their abilities to teach the children.

#4.5 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:23 PM EDT

Are you trying to claim that you and they didn't know the BSA stood for traditional values and moral principles BEFORE you joined? That's a rather disingenuous claim. Why not just say that you abandoned traditional values and moral principles and left because the BSA won't approve of your choice? At least that would be honest....

I'm proud to be an Eagle Scout, and proud of the BSA for not caving to the demands of the "PC" crowd.

Are you trying to claim that you and they didn't know the BSA stood for traditional values and moral principles BEFORE you joined?

Yes, they stand for the "moral values" of ignorance, homophobia, and bigotry -- no surprise that YOU support them, Jim.

And of course, we could always mention the approximately 2,000 cases of sexual abuse and child molestation that the BSA covered up for years. How do you like THOSE "moral values," Jim?

ErinNJ=ignorant, bigoted, troll: that's why I have her on "ignore" although I can still see that she's posting replies...how sad. I'm sorry I have nothing nicer to say about her, but fortunately there are plenty of other rational people on here who know how to have a civil discussion/debate (and cite actual facts, not cherry-picked, out-of-context, and unsourced blurbs from leftist blogs).

I have had her on ignore for a while now myself. Its all about her views and values, and to hell with anyone with anyone elses.

Just like another person on here I been debating, these people fail to realize that BSA is a private group, with no binding laws from the government. The Supreme Court has defended the BSA on two accounts that I pointed out on the first page of this thread, I also showed that a charter means nothing. Its all on the first page. They still refuse to accept that the BSA is free to have a standard of morality that these guys on this thread just cant stand.

Tough , is what I say. They dont even have to live with it, they could go out and help support a new gay scouts and there can be like minded individuals with same values.

Why even bother with a group when they are not like you ? I surely wouldnt want to try to weasel my way into the Black Panthers Club, or the KKK, if their values are not the same as mine, why would I want to be part of theirs ? Why cant gays and these liberal bullies get that in their thick heads. Go be with people who share your own values.

I see you're both still posting in response to my posts, so you must be looking at them -- so much for your claims that you have me on "ignore". As for you, Marmaduke, I noticed that in that other "debate" (in quotes since your "debating skills" are laughable at best), you keep saying you're "done" with your opponent, yet you keep responding. Moreover, you project onto others (like me) your own dishonest tactics and inability to find factual, unbiased, peer-reviewed data to support your claims, as well as accusing rational, intelligent people like me of "taking things out of context" -- when that is on YOUR shoulders alone.

You both are pathetic excuses for human beings.

ErinNJ=ignorant, bigoted, troll

I have had her on ignore for a while now myself.

Jim5769|Marmaduke49=scared of being schooled by a principled, compassionate woman like ErinNJ

I see you're both still posting in response to my posts, so you must be looking at them -- so much for your claims that you have me on "ignore".

Yeah, I wonder who their audience is for such silliness - they must really disrespect the readers of these threads if they think any of them are dumb enough to believe they simply don't want to reply to your postings for any reason other than they cannot construct compelling, legitimate rebuttals to what you posted.

As for you, Marmaduke, I noticed that in that other "debate" (in quotes since your "debating skills" are laughable at best), you keep saying you're "done" with your opponent, yet you keep responding.

Yeah, I called him out on that. Again, I doubt there's anyone left who isn't seeing through the lie of "being done" with me.

ErinNJ Ignoring author

I see you're both still posting in response to my posts, so you must be looking at them -- so much for your claims that you have me on "ignore". As for you, Marmaduke, I noticed that in that other "debate" (in quotes since your "debating skills" are laughable at best), you keep saying you're "done" with your opponent, yet you keep responding. Moreover, you project onto others (like me) your own dishonest tactics and inability to find factual, unbiased, peer-reviewed data to support your claims, as well as accusing rational, intelligent people like me of "taking things out of context" -- when that is on YOUR shoulders alone.

You both are pathetic excuses for human beings.

I expanded to see more BS from you.

YOu are F-ing amazing.. , your really ticking me off, how f-ing blind are you being. Unbiased , peer reviewed, WTH are you talking about ? Is not the supreme court good enough >? You so liberally use it proving your point in your cases, and when i use it to show mine, you think its biased and dishonest ? How can I not be red hot under the collar, I could literally throw up on someone who is being so ignorant to the facts of the SUPREME COURT and their rulings in the DEFENSE of the BSA , but no, you have to keep up your alls stuoid BS, and trying to get people mad. Well guess what, you did a good job , because you have me pissed off. Your lucky that this website has a COH , because i would love to really release what I feel about you guys. Your a disgrace for human society, with no respect for American Values and freedoms of liberty. Its all about your immoral views and to hell with anyone else, and to hell with a Private organization.

WALT is guilty of using the word HATE, guilty of using it in the wrong way. Hate is a very powerful word, and when used to to relate the BSA to hate disgusts me more then anything in this world.

You all dont want to even listen to logic and reason, I really think your alls main goal is just to come on here and get people all riled up , like a bunch of trolls.

Im going to point this out again, if the BSA was in violation of anything, they would be in trouble with the law, government, be in courts.. Guess what ?? They are not. WHy ? Because the SUPREME COURT defended them.. So YOU LOSE, BSA WINS..

What did they win ? They got to keep their right to hold true to a moral religious value. A value that not every in this america has, like you all. They are protected from Vultures like you all, they are protected ..

You dont like it ? TOugh, live with it, because it can not and will nto be changed

You all dont want to even listen to logic and reason

If you presented some, we would listen and praise you for doing so. Instead, you make excuses for hate. That's not logic and reason - it is enabling - it is co-dependency.

Things have been changing for four hundred years, and progress will continue despite your best efforts to support rolling society back into the Dark Ages. "You dont like it ? TOugh, live with it".

Im sorry if I am losing my cool, but this is getting out of hand.

First make a case to use the word hate. I want you to make a case for it by showing the definition of HATE, and then showing how the BSA is using hate.

Second, show how you have any legal ground what so ever, any evidence that can over turn the Supreme Courts decision in FAVOR of the BSA already.

Until you can do this, its pointless to keep debating, because your no longer listening to logica and reason, the laws, and the freedoms we have with the constitution, you are now living in your own fake world and trying to make us believe it.

Supreme court favors BSA, not gays.. No sir, You lose.

First make a case to use the word hate.

I already did. Even though you'll deny it, I'm sure you realize that as someone who vigorously supports the hateful policy, you have absolutely zero credibility as an appraiser of whether or not I've made a case for the word. Let someone who opposes the BSA policy tell me that they don't think that "hate" is the right word. They don't have a vested interest in trying to rationalize the hate, like you do. You're simply trying defend your indefensible position, so your nagging about word use just appears as what it is - an effort to distract attention away from strongly moral and valid points that you simply don't like.

Second, show how you have any legal ground what so ever

Again, I already did. You keep on glossing over the fact that the BSA is already not allowed to do a multitude of things, ranging from age discrimination against their bookkeepers to overlooking evidence of child molestation by its scoutmasters. This is all just a matter of what society determines is a violation of the basic rights afforded by our laws, which you seem incapable of recognizing has changed over the last two hundred years in a specific direction with myriad positive effects.

Until you can do this, its pointless to keep debating

You keep on saying silly things like this, kind of like "I'm done with you," and such. You've already been exposed as not living up to such pronouncements. If you really thought it was really pointless to keep debating, you would stop, but time after time when you've made such declarations you didn't stop. You're just trying to have your own say be the final word. Sorry, M - not this time. Bigotry and hate won't get the final word, this time.

Supreme court favors BSA

Just like they once supported slave-owners.

No sir, You lose.

Actually, as the side of the argument that is advocating for true morality instead of rationalization for hate, I actually win. Whether having the morally superior perspective eventually turns into justice or not remains to be seen.

Before we go any farther lets make sure we define HATE. By the online definition of it.. here is what it says.

Verb:Feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone): "the boys hate each other".

Noun:Intense or passionate dislike: "feelings of hate".

to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2.
to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

Now walt, lets look at some things in life. When you go grocery shopping, do you set a standard for the fruits and vegetables you pick ? Would you take rotten food home with you to eat ?

When you go out to eat at a restaurant and you have a server bringing your food/ drinks you are setting a standard also for how good or bad this server is being, and you will probably tip accordingly to your standard set of what YOU THINK good customer service is.

When you buy a vehicle, you have a color in mind, an engine size, maybe certain amount of doors, maybe you look into the cares safety mechanism to see how protective they are for little kids safety. You would see the safety standards. You would set a standard of what you like and dont like.

When I joined the Marine Corp , there was a very big standard set by the Government of what was acceptable and not as in my physical abilities. The government has a standard set before anyone can even be considered of getting.

Colleges have Highschool students take ACT SAT tests , there is a standard set for kids to join a college.

In the Boy Scouts of America, There is a standard set, that no homosexual can be in a position of leadership. IM sure they could give many reasons, I know I can, but its a standard, just like any others I listed above.

Should I cry to the Armed Forces because I couldnt not re enter due to injuries sustained while serving ? Should I call them haters because they hate people who had a broken leg, or messed up back ? Or did they set a standard ?

Should I cry to the colleges that I cant pass an ACT or SAT test, and that I should be allowed to join College anyway , or should I call them haters because maybe they think I am too stupid to join their college. Or why cant I join an all girls college, maybe I should call them haters because men are not allowed.

Should I cry about the server at the diner because she failed to fill my cup up enough, and say she hated me, because maybe I set a standard that my drink never be empty, but mayeb she was just that busy with 100 other people and couldnt get to mine all the time. Maybe I should hate her, or she hate me our standards arent met.

You use the word hate so loosely and meaninglessly. You apply this very powerful word HATE to anything that disagree with you, or your standards, and in the same time, you violate your own standard by judging others standards.

Did Hitler really hate JEws or did he just feel there was a better standard for civilization if Jews were wiped out and blonde hair blue eyed people were around.

Or maybe KKK , do they hate Blacks and Catholics ? Or do they feel the world would be a better place with out the two ?

Lets look again at defining HATE>
Feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone)

Do you really think the BSA feels intense or passionate dislike ? Them liking or disliking someone has absolutley nothing to do with a standard being set.
IF they fired a person because they are gay you might be able to say there is some hate there, but in this case, a stardard is preset, before anybody joins a group. The standard is the belief in the Bible, God, and union between one man, one woman, a position for heterosexuals only. This is the set standard, it has nothing to do with hating a group at all. Now the Gay agenda comes along, and makes a big scene, comes out of the closet, has to let everyone know shes gay, and then she is in violation of a standard set, and the consequence of the violation is that you lose your position.
No where, I repeat, no where is there a direct, and immediate face to face saying I HATE YOU AND WHAT YOU ARE. No where, absolutely no where can you make that case here. The only thing you have is the confused and illogical mindset that a private group can not have their own standards to live by, instead they must abide to what YOU believe. Well who died and made YOU king ?

You are showing direct hate, by name calling, showing a great dislike toward the BSA for their standard set.

Again, I already did. You keep on glossing over the fact that the BSA is already not allowed to do a multitude of things, ranging from age discrimination against their bookkeepers to overlooking evidence of child molestation by its scoutmasters. This is all just a matter of what society determines is a violation of the basic rights afforded by our laws, which you seem incapable of recognizing has changed over the last two hundred years in a specific direction with myriad positive effects.

Im pinning you down in this one Walt, show me where the BSA is not allowed ? Show me where the Supreme court ruled against the BSA and in favor of the Gay agenda ? Show me Walt ? YOu cant, the only thing you have is my reference to the Supreme court showing in FAVOR of the BSA and religious groups being able to hire and fire upon religious beliefs and moral standards. The government interfering would be in direct conflict with your alls pretend Church and state any way. But even if such thing did exist, this would be a prime example where the government can not interfere with a religious organization. PERIOD walt.

You keep on saying silly things like this, kind of like "I'm done with you," and such. You've already been exposed as not living up to such pronouncements. If you really thought it was really pointless to keep debating, you would stop, but time after time when you've made such declarations you didn't stop. You're just trying to have your own say be the final word. Sorry, M - not this time. Bigotry and hate won't get the final word, this time.

Yes i keep saying I am done with you, and yet I keep coming back.. So what ?!?! DO you think I give a rats arse what you think about me coming back.. Regardless if i do keep coming back, its to make sure that other people who read this know what a delusional bigoted bully truth distorter that is going on here with your nonsense.

Actually, as the side of the argument that is advocating for true morality instead of rationalization for hate, I actually win. Whether having the morally superior perspective eventually turns into justice or not remains to be seen.

Actually Americas founding principles win, the freedom of religion and expression, the freedom from the government stepping in and bullying private lives of people , religious organizations. Thats who wins, the american people and our fundamentals of America.

Hate is acting against someone else because you don't like the fact that they live in accordance with their own beliefs and values instead of subjugating themselves to yours.

It's that simple.

The BSA practices hate.

Live with the label.

No walt, you have a different definition. You cant use the word hate if its already been defined, and try to apply what you think hate is, with what it truly is defined as, and apply it to the standards of the BSA.

YOu sir are in violation of butchering a words meaning to fit your agenda. If you use the word hate I suggest using it in accordance with what it means. Your labeling of the BSA with your false definition is horrific.

WaltUU

ErinNJ=ignorant, bigoted, troll

I have had her on ignore for a while now myself.

Jim5769|Marmaduke49=scared of being schooled by a principled, compassionate woman like ErinNJ

I see you're both still posting in response to my posts, so you must be looking at them -- so much for your claims that you have me on "ignore".

...
#4.14 - Fri Sep 7, 2012 8:12 AM EDT

Bwaahahhaa! Wow, way to deliberately ignore what was actually said and insert your own delusions.

Anyway, to address what YOU said:

1) If ErinNJ had anything of merit to say, then she wouldn't have been placed on my ignore list. I gave her repeated chances to provide substantive argumentation and actual facts. She chose to provide cut-and-paste garbage and ad hominem attacks. If that's a "principled, compassionate woman" then you have some very warped standards.

2) I never said that I had placed you on ignore, so yes, I can still see your posts. And FYI--when someone is on ignore, all it does is automatically collapse their post so you have to expand it if you want to see it. It doesn't block you from seeing that the person posted.

WaltUU

Hate is acting against someone else because you don't like the fact that they live in accordance with their own beliefs and values instead of subjugating themselves to yours.

It's that simple.

...
#4.20 - Fri Sep 7, 2012 4:25 PM EDT

So, in other words, the exact same thing that you're doing to the BSA. Thank you for admitting that you are a hater. Recognizing the problem is the first step. There might be hope for you yet.

Before you know it, you'll be a recovered travaphobe instead of a raving one.

P.S. - Not condoning or approving of something does not equal hatred. You have consistently failed to make a valid argument demonstrating any hatred from the BSA. However, you've clearly demonstrated your own hatred and travaphobia.

YOU gave ME "chances"?? Who are YOU to give anything to anyone? You are nothing, a nobody, a clueless buffoon who is nothing but a legend in your own mind.

BTW, it looks like your boyfriend Marmaduke may be foaming at the mouth -- wipe the spit off the computer screen, Marmaduke.

ErinNJ Ignoring author

I see you're both still posting in response to my posts, so you must be looking at them -- so much for your claims that you have me on "ignore". ...

You both are pathetic excuses for human beings.

#4.13 - Fri Sep 7, 2012 7:41 AM EDT

Apologies to WaltUU for item 2 in my post #4.22. Since I hadn't bothered expanding your post (as you can see, I DO have you on ignore) yet, I didn't catch that he was quoting from you, not something that he had said.

You are a sad, strange, little travaphobe, and you have my pity. I'll pray for you, but I'm not taking you off ignore just yet.

ErinNJ Ignoring author

YOU gave ME "chances"?? Who are YOU to give anything to anyone? You are nothing, a nobody, a clueless buffoon who is nothing but a legend in your own mind.

BTW, it looks like your boyfriend Marmaduke may be foaming at the mouth -- wipe the spit off the computer screen, Marmaduke.

Erin your outrageous insult to me is uncalled for. You can call my views bigoted, or you can say my reasoning is illogical, but to be so blatant and say " my boy friend "

And why would I be foaming at the mouth ? Because I was mad ? Why would I foam ? I get irritated because people are to blinded or ignorant to see what the courts have ruled or cant see past their own views and agenda trying to push it on others.

I couldn't have put it better my self! I am glad the Scouts have stood their ground. They do a wonderful job of helping young boys become upstanding men. My whole family was involved and they need to remain as they are and not be polluted by the some gay agenda. They can create their own group, but stay out of the real true Boy Scouts of America!

So what exactly happens if some of those boys are gay as they grow older? Shall we just ignore it and say you need to get out? Even though they might be a part of the group for many years? What exactly happens then? Your saying a discrimination on a personal choice is ok? What exactly do you think you teach your child by believing in this? Also just to let you know, a majority of the child molesters are married or straight. Google it if you wish.

Vanessa,

Force their way of life on you? Did I miss something? Has someone forced you or your children to be gay? Is anyone FORCING the BSA to accept homosexuality? Can you quote where ANYONE is saying that?

A private organization does have the right to dictate membership, but when those dictates are discriminatory, citizens have the right to disagree.

Don't confuse tolerance with passivity. I can tolerate your belief, without being passive in the face of that belief, specifically if I feel said belief is being used in bias, harmful actions.

Apply the "but for" test. But for, your unsolicited posting about how you don't like gay people, would any of us have anything to say to you, about who you, as a person, are?

What's your "but for"? But for, their being gay??? Well where is the harm in being gay?

Shall I force YOU to attend my church?

You don't have to when you try to force your church into our laws, i.e. DOMA.

Where is the tolerance for those who disagree with YOU?

Well, since they're not telling you, you can't belong to a certain group or have equal rights, based on a private behavior that harms no one, I'm guessing their tolerance is all around.

Sarah, why must anyone accept what they consider an abnormal lifestyle?

Sarah, You need to face the reality that a PRIVATE organization can make their own rules. They sure as hell don't need your approval. According to you, I don't have to passively accept what I don't agree with, but I'm supposed to tolerate it. So explain how disagreeing with something and speaking out against it is considered tolerance? Insert double standard here because that is exactly what you are using. Just because someone doesn't use violence to make a point doesn't make them passive or tolerant. So if you choose to force someone to take down a religious symbol and you have used the legal system to do so you are neither passive or tolerant. Get it? You can't have it both ways. Pedophilia was never the issue so your entire post on a study done regarding gays and pedophilia is mute.

Sarah, the BSA is a private organization and not in existence to cater to the whims of discreet blocks of society. They have a charter, as set of beliefs and goals that have been in place for a long time. It is her that is being intolerant of their organization - by FORCING them to accept her homosexuality. They should not have to go into a closet because she came out. The term discriminatory is becoming irrelevant in the face of these types of actions.

I personally don't care how a person chooses to live, until it infringes on my right to voice my own opinion and raise my family according to my beliefs. She should enjoy the same rights. We are not one person, we are many. That is the basis for tolerance. Tolerance though, goes both ways.

Keep in mind, she does not have to withdraw herself or her son from the org. She just can't be a den mother.

Furthermore, why are you inserting comments regarding pedophilia? That is not the issue. Try sticking to the facts before you accuse others of disregarding them.

Very well put

VERY well said VanessaK!! At Sarah3043284-- I agree that there is a large differece between being passive and forcing your beliefs on someone. But what you fail to see is that just because I, or anyone else, may be tolerant of one's homosexuality doesn't mean we want our young children exposed to it. Children are VERY impressionable and I would NEVER leave my child unattended with a homosexual, man OR woman. If you can't respect that then you're not a very good person and are just as bad as those who are intolerant of homosexuality. AND in the eyes of a very large portion of the population of this country homosexuality is a determining factor in the downfall of our society, as is divorce. You don't have to agree with that but once again, if you can't respect the opinion of others then you're not a very good person. AND the Scouts is a private organization inwhich the government has absolutely no right to tell them they must accept homosexuality; if you disagree with this then you are unamerican to the core. Try thinking about it like this...you start your very own non-profit organization and enact a policy that bans convicted rapists. Now some rapist shlub has a problem with it. Do you think it is ok for the court system to make you let him be a part of you organization? Do you feel this would be a fair use of the courts? Given a rapist is quite an extreme example but extemities are necessary in order to see.

Sara, upon reading your other post/s I see that you do not have a firm grasp on what you are talking about. anyone can curtail a "butfor test", to favor their own case, I use them every single day as part of legal documents. And as I said before...its not about homosexuality harming ME...its about homosexuality harming the youth...my children. It is a disease inwhich those who have it are blind to it's affects on the world and those who don't are ridiculed for attempting to end its infection on our country. I have gay friends, I go to gay bars, I don't mind being around gay people and I don't mind that they're gay. The problem arises when gays think there is no problem with infecting others with their disease, corrupting the youth. You ought to be ashamed yourself.

Ebenser,

Infecting??? I didn't know "gay" was bacterial. And, by the way, ALL of the credible medical and scientific community, WORLDWIDE, disagrees with you.

Can you please provide sources and sites? Oh yes, and what page of the DSM IV can I find homosexuality on?

Your answers are too drawn out but you make your point. However, the statement "what they do in the privacy of their sex lives" is not a good a good analogy. If they kept their sex lives private this article would not be discussed today. Yes, discrimination and hate are wrong but so is the deliberate actions of individuals to use their sexuality as if it were a handicap just so they can get attention. If this lady were enjoying her "private life", she'd still be in the scouts.

Sarah, SHE is the one that made her private life known. You are totally off base here.

Gay's corrupting the youth? really, are we still on that? Do you know anyone who has ever said, "Man, I was really into girls until I met that guy..." Being around homosexuals doesn't make young people homosexual, any more than being around black people makes young people black. What it does, however, is show that it's okay to have a preference for someone of the same sex. You may consider that "corrupting" because it teaches that your antiquated beliefs are not the only way. You have the right to teach your children that they are horrid for having feelings that you consider wrong, but that's the true "corruption"; teaching your children to hate themselves for what they are...

Sarah, I would make the case that YOU look at a source as you like to tell others and find the definition of Private. She is not harming me and I could care less about her sexuality but if she is "keeping it to herself" then why does everybody know about it??? Do you honestly think she was pegged by stereo-typing?

I have gay friends, I go to gay bars, I don't mind being around gay people and I don't mind that they're gay. The problem arises when gays think there is no problem with infecting others with their disease, corrupting the youth.

If gays could "infect" anyone, you'd be gay by now, if you truly have gay friends and go to gay bars. Of course, I have to question why anyone who thinks that gays are diseased would actually hang out with them. And I wonder if your "gay friends" know you feel that way?

@RevLucifer, well said.

but if she is "keeping it to herself" then why does everybody know about it??

For the same reason everyone knows yours. She's living her life.

Does that mean people are allowed to use what you and your significant other do in the bedroom, against you?

Why would anyone want to be part of an organization that didn't want them? People and organizations have the right to be wrong as long as they don't oppress others. They are not seeking to change this woman's lifestyle but for some reason she is seeking to change their membership requirements. Why can't they both go their own way and end this exercise?

She is living her life, openly, and showing up at Scout HQ and having interviews with her partner is nothing more than a personal agenda. I can commend her for being open but not for flaunting around like she deserves some special rights so don't complain because everybody don't accept it or if an organization wants to maintain their own standards for what the group as a whole believes is right.

She is living her life, openly, and showing up at Scout HQ and having interviews with her partner is nothing more than a personal agenda.

So you have the right to do that, but when she does the same thing it's an "agenda" that can be used against her?

So...

Her private life = Her agenda

Her agenda = Your business why?

You're using her private life or agenda, or whatever you want to call it, against her. Remember when you said this...

If they kept their sex lives private this article would not be discussed today.

If this lady were enjoying her "private life", she'd still be in the scouts.

And now you're saying this...

I can commend her for being open

So you can commend her for being open, but still be okay with using that openess against her, and accussing her of not keeping that openess in her private life, although it has no effect in your life?

My business why? Because Sarah, just like you I have the right to go on this site and poke you in the eye so to speak. You on the other hand are saying the BSA has no rights and should bow down and accept changing their policies to suit your views.

It is not me using her life style against her, I'm not even a Boy Scout... She did this all on her on so good for her. I can say I commend someone for being open but that don't mean the majority needs to change for the one. Grow up, accept responsibility and the consequences that come with being open. Don't turn it into a show.

I'm sorry, can you please quote me, where I said the BSA didn't have a right to dictate their membership???

Grow up, accept responsibility and the consequences that come with being open.

Why should she have consequences for living her life and not harming anyone, when you live yours in the same manner and have none?

If this lady disagrees with their policies and beliefs, why does she not start her own organization that espouses her beliefs and values.

Point is Sarah, private organizations have the right to be bigoted if they want. That was decided by the very same court that said I can be taxed for not buying a product that results in your free health care.

BSA is implied since I haven't heard you speak on their behalf and you only seem to support one side of this debate. You do understand the term implied in this case yes? We get it, you're a student in your 20s, have read all the books, and obtained all the knowledge life has to offer. You like to quote and attack without digesting the information for what it is or what it is intended to be because you are obviously the most intellectual expert of modern times.

In the real world where people live, everyone, including me, has consequences for the ways they live their lives. It can be a matter of race, ethnicity, sexuality, profession, etc. Here, everybody want accept you or your lifestyle no matter what that is so get used to dusting yourself off instead of pissing and moaning about your miserable existence. In the real world you will also find that people can pull quotes and be book smart but suffer from severe lack of intelligence. This woman had a personal agenda (an underlying often ideological plan) and if you can honestly look at the attatched photos and say otherwise you are misguided and nobody will ever take you serious.

This woman had a personal agenda

Yeah, to live her life. And you, in no way, answered my question. Here, I'll repost it...

Why should she have consequences for living her life and not harming anyone, when you live yours in the same manner and have none?

Yes, our actions have consequences, but do you deny that an organization may have the right to apply consequences based on private behavior that harms no one, but just because they have the right, that doesn't make it the right thing to do.

It's so much easier to blame the victim, isn't it?

Doh Doh,

Seriously? Go read post number 6.12. I'm thoroughly sick of having to restate that point.

Sarah, I am willing to bet you are a helicopter mom. You would be the first to freak if your kid was told they weren't good enough to do something.

The BSA is a private organization. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!! They have a set of rules, PERIOD!!!!!!

To answer your one fairly reasonable question, if a boy figures out he is gay later on he shouldl remove himself from the Scouts because he would be breaking the rules. PERIOD!!!!

When we teach kids that there are no losers. When we hide kids from failure. When we give kids everything they want. Kids will grow up to be very confused adults.

Your question was answered but not in the manner you wished. By your responses one would have to assume that you also live an alternate lifestyle and in doing so you take this issue personally to the point it clouds your ability to process information.

You inferred she has suffered consequences for living her life and not hurting anyone when I live mine in the same manner and have none. My answer, everyone including me, suffers consequences for the ways they live their lives. For you to suggest I have never been victimized due to a part of my lifestyle is not true. Sexuality is not the only thing a person can be persecuted for and your single minded focus again makes it hard to take you serious.

Sarah, the vast majority of us do not fear homosexuality. Disgusting and creepy would better describe my feelings. I have a gay nephew that I like very much. We get along just fine. He knows I don't like his lifestyle and it's his choice, not mine. Why is it so difficult for you folks to understand that? We're tolerant, but that's not enough for some folks. Now how about recipricating and show us you tolerate our opinions?

Once again, Sarah has shown her character by effectively handing everyone else on this thread their own ass, with a smile of course.

Kudos to you, Sarah. Keep using logic and compassionate intelligence to prove these imbeciles wrong. You have my deepest respects.

It is a disease inwhich those who have it are blind to it's affects on the world and those who don't are ridiculed for attempting to end its infection on our country.

Never mind that the medical and psychological communities disagree with you on that one, you have that First Amendment right to fling the word "disease" about as you like, regardless of its actual, clinical definition.

I'm just as free to point out that your doing so indicates that you don't know what the frak you're talking about.

Sarah hasn't done anything. She has spouted the same rhetoric as before and when that didn't suit her argument she inserted some(molestation). It's obvious, that in order to be heard she needs to take up as much space on this thread as possible.

Sarah has failed to mention the Constitution ( and yes she is famous for that) and the fact that the Boy Scouts of America has the right to "freedom of speech" and the "freedom of assembly".

Which is why she likes to spout the controversial " whom are they harming?" argument. Funny thing is, that she is also the first to discredit christians who do that even though they are also harming no one.

Really Sarah, it's obvious to everyone how one sided you are.

Sarah, Sarah. How naive about the world. It made me laugh when you told someone that expressed her opinion that nobody wanted to hear hers Then you made the assinine statement about the medical community. You probably weren't born when we first started seeing patients with AIDS. People dropping dead, no cure-what's going on. This disease seemed to have originated from a monkey and crossed species and a homosexual airline attendant spread the disease far and wide as those he infected 100s of others I believe..

At first they were scared and then the medical community came up with a mixture of different drug cocktails very expensive to the tax payer-Medicaid) and people weren't dying so quicky and it became more of a chronic disease. There are some well known cases of people infected with HIV purposely exposing unsuspecting people. Since the disease was being somewhat controlled by meds the gay community started being less diligent in the use of protection. I believe I watched a 60 minutes special about gays in San Francisco in the 90s and reporters asked many if they were using protection and the answer WAS no! However, they sure do want money to go to AIDS research when the disease is preventable. They just don't want to use prevention.

The first patients we started seeing were in the early -mid eighties. Now the largest segment of the population being infected is female. Hope you aren't one of those women whose husband brings you home a little something special. It all started with the gay sexual revolution-so please don't say they aren't harming anyone. One of my good friends died of AIDS in 1995. He left his wife and their two children and moved to San Francisco to live the "lifestyle." Did I tell you his wife is positive??? Sex, drugs, rock and roll. Let's see how you feel when you have actually lived life a little.

I am sorry you were not taught right from wrong in Sunday School. I know that is a bad word for a lot of people now days.

IndyPatriot must have the hots for Sarah. No other explanation for his response. I just remembered the term "dead head." Okay, I got it.

Patriot,

Can you please quote me where I said someone didn't have the right to their opinion? I hope you're making sure to be careful, I hear there's a bad case of "gay" going around.

Unhappy,

Read post 6.12.

Sarah, you don't respect the opinions of others. You want all people to think and believe as you do. If we don't, we are called bigots and haters, etc, etc. I don't accept the homosexual lifestyle as normal or healthy nor do I accept God make them that way and I never will. I have 2 gay cousns who are wonderful people. We don't discuss lifestyles and we get along just fine. They don't try to change me and I don't try to change them. I accept them as they are whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. If you can't understand that, you just don't want to understand anyone who does not think the same way you do. You would be the bigot and the hater.

It's a private organization. That's all that needs to be said. And if this "censored" keeps pushing this and finally gets her way through the courts, I hope the Boy Scouts dis-bands and calls it quits. It will be sad to see them go but it would be the principle of it and worth it so she doesn't get her way.

It's a private organization that does receive federal funding, as well as public assistance in the form of free use of public schools to hold their meetings -- so they either allow homosexuals in the BSA, or they stop receiving federal and other public support.

Erin, and what do you say about Planned Parenthood receiving government funds that they can use to provide abortions? I know, Planned Parenthood says they don't use the government funds for the abortions. They use the federal money to pay for their leases and payrolls, which frees up the funding from other sources to pay for the abortions. Do you think the Boy Scouts who ban gays are worse than Planned Parenthood who provides abortions, the killing of human lives, just for the convenience of those that don't want children, but can't keep their legs crossed?

PP is federally prohibited from using taxpayer (i.e., federal) funds to cover abortions (except in cases of incest, rape, or medical necessity, in which use of such funds are mandated); the Hyde Amendment has ensured that. Since ALL entities that receive federal funds are audited regularly, NO federal funds are used to fund abortions at PP; they have other income sources to offset those costs for women who cannot pay for the procedure. Since I am pro-choice, I have no problem with that.

BTW, abortion is not "the killing of human lives," because while there is a living organism in the woman's uterus, it is not a viable human until around the 22nd-24th week of gestation.

just for the convenience of those that don't want children, but can't keep their legs crossed

You know, if you actually did some research BEFORE you posted, you might have saved yourself from embarrassment. More than half of the women who seek abortions said that they were having it done due to contraceptive failure -- so they never intended to get pregnant in the first place.

PS: If men could keep it in their pants, perhaps the necessity of abortion would be reduced. It's not just due to women who "can't keep their legs crossed" -- but how like a chauvinistic pig to make such a statement.

Cwater,

Please quote where I ever said you couldn't or weren't entitled to NOT LIKE gay people or their lifestyle?

All I ask, is that you own that. If want to dislike someone or something someone does, although it has no effect on society or your life, then own it. That does make you a bigot.

LeSigh, one more time...

A private organization does have the right to dictate membership, but when those dictates are discriminatory, citizens have the right to disagree.

Don't confuse tolerance with passivity. I can tolerate your belief, without being passive in the face of that belief, specifically if I feel said belief is being used in bias, harmful actions.

Apply the "but for" test. But for, your unsolicited posting about how you don't like gay people, would any of us have anything to say to you, about who you, as a person, are?

What's your "but for"? But for, their being gay??? Well where is the harm in being gay?

If you really had no problem with them, and simply didn't approve of the lifestyle, why did you feel the need to post about how you will never accept it?

Why can you not accept something that has no bearing in your life?

Erin, Boy Scouts of America DOES NOT RECEIVE ANY FEDERAL FUNDING!!! Period!!! That means public schools. Boy Scouts now meet in churches or other private organization' s facilities. Go to website Cha-Cha.com and ask the question "Does Boy Scouts of America receive Federal funding?" The answer is NO. A ligation ruling in 2005 rules that no government body can sponsor a BSA unit = no government funding.

Sarah, You must a student/graduate of UC Berkeley. Your views, quotes and opinion is so far left, you can't see your right foot.

The US Supreme Court settled this argument years ago. SO this lady does have an agenda. She knew the rules yet she chose to challenge them anyway. Sorry.......... Lose-Lose situation.

texasbluedarter, BSA DOES HAVE A FEDERAL CHARTER, and they have use of public schools for free to hold their meetings -- which means that they DO receive federal funding, since public schools are funded by taxpayers.

NEXT.

texasbluedarter**

Erin, Boy Scouts of America DOES NOT RECEIVE ANY FEDERAL FUNDING!!! Period!!! That means public schools. Boy Scouts now meet in churches or other private organization' s facilities. Go to website Cha-Cha.com and ask the question "Does Boy Scouts of America receive Federal funding?" The answer is NO. A ligation ruling in 2005 rules that no government body can sponsor a BSA unit = no government funding.

Sarah, You must a student/graduate of UC Berkeley. Your views, quotes and opinion is so far left, you can't see your right foot.

The US Supreme Court settled this argument years ago. SO this lady does have an agenda. She knew the rules yet she chose to challenge them anyway. Sorry.......... Lose-Lose situation.

#6.47 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:06 PM EDT

Just add ErinNJ to your "ignore" list, e-mail the moderator about her, and move on.

The organization's legal right to have these policies has been upheld repeatedly by both state and federal courts. In Boy Scouts of America v. Dale, the Supreme Court of the United States has affirmed that as a private organization, the BSA can set its own membership standards. The BSA's policies have been legally challenged but have not been found to constitute illegal discrimination; as a private organization in the United States the BSA has the right to freedom of association,^[3] as determined in Boy Scouts of America v. Dale.^[4] In recent years, the policy disputes have led to litigation over the terms under which the BSA can access governmental resources including public lands.

I dont know how much more clearer this can be. One thing I have found out about the internet is it is full of some of the most mis information out there, and selective posting of information to push ones view and agenda.

One of the biggest ones I have found was with wikipedia and Evolution , wikipedia has much bias.

It isoff topic from what were talking about but its about making a point that any topic, ill say this again, ANY TOPIC can be twisted to show the others sides view. Then people believe in what they think is right in their mind. Sometimes people believe in misinformation because they dont know of peoples agendas.

scienceagainstevolution.info/v12i3w.htm

It isoff topic from what were talking about but its about making a point that any topic, ill say this again, ANY TOPIC can be twisted to show the others sides view.

And you're an expert at "twisting".

No i just an a guy who is Good at using logic and reason, who looks for truth even if its against politically correct agendas. No hate toward anyone , no hard feelings. I just think a lot of people get some bad info and believe it because it coincides with their views. Every one views everything differently. Sometimes people just have different opinions, sometimes people are just wrong.

What I think you're missing is that the examples you gave are the same examples Erin and I would give of the pattern of injustice that demonstrates some of the unjust benefits afforded the BSA by its federal charter. It is that very practice, that you used to defend your perspective, that helps prove our contention.

And how is the BSA subject to any restrictions due to a federal charter ? How are they bound by federal laws ?

What I have been saying is that the BSA must lose its federal charter, and all the benefits its scouts gain (such as the automatic promotion in the military) because the BSA is unworthy of a federal charter, due to its practice of hate. The federal charter is a federal law. What the federal government grants it can take away, when the grantee proves as unworthy as the BSA has.

Beyond that, all those that employ others or offer a public accommodation (such as hotels, restaurants, and indeed scout groups) are subject to all local, state and federal laws. The BSA's policy directs local BSA troops to operate in many states explicitly in violation of the laws of those states. Here in Massachusetts, BSA troop 500 explicitly rejects the national policy because it violates the laws of the Commonwealth, and it would be yet another instance of institutionalized hate if the national organization takes actions against our local troop in response.

So the BSa still are not bound by any regulations, and have their free will to teach their Good morals of well being and not be pressured by the political correctness of todays sensationalist society. What you see as hate, is another persons defense of moral and ethical behaviors. Your so stuck on the hate thing, and I havent seen any proof of hate yet.

Because you choose to deny the hate rather than recognize it. You view hate only as that which violates your personal standards for hate, rather than working from a standard for hate that respects the beliefs and values of practically everyone in society.

and who sets the standards walt , You ? Society ? They Both can change and do change over the times. There is no absolute authority with man, nor is there an absolute standard since man is capable of believing what ever they want to be moral or ethical. Where you your standard that respects the BSA or your standard that respects what people believe GOD says, where is your standard of respect ? Your preaching that people like us need to accept others beliefs and yet in the same sentence your violating what you just proclaimed.. Incredible.

The standard is something you should have learned in Kindergarten: Treat others just the same way you would want them to treat you. Do you want people who don't like you to disrespect your heterosexual relationships? Of course not. Then stop disrespecting homosexuals in homosexual relationships.

Deny the Golden Rule at your own peril, since in doing you you are ethically inviting people to disrespect every personal choice you make for yourself.

Your preaching that people like us need to accept others beliefs and yet in the same sentence your violating what you just proclaimed.. Incredible.

What is incredible is how little you understand about the nature of true morality. I'm not advocating disrespecting heterosexual relationships. (Handy, that, given that I'm in one.) That's the part that you are unwilling to let yourself understand. You refuse to grant yourself the permission to see the difference between hate (what the BSA is doing) and opposition to hate (what I'm doing).

I have addressed your Golden Rule, and morality in the other thread " BSA is keeping its policy banning gays " Im not saying the same thing twice in 2 threads, since were talking about the same issue. Refer to that thread about Golden rule and morality.

Sarah-3043284

but if she is "keeping it to herself" then why does everybody know about it??

For the same reason everyone knows yours. She's living her life.

Does that mean people are allowed to use what you and your significant other do in the bedroom, against you?

Yea because thats the normal topic that Heteros talk about in a social meeting place. " Hey Marma, what do you think of this steak dinner were eating ? " " its great tasting, oh btw guys, Im a hetero sexual, I just wanted everyone to know that in case there are any single girls out, im your man. I love being hetero , it just is so nice to be in the arms of a woman. The steak and eggs remind me of how hetero I am guys.."

People knowing my Sexual orientation is my private life, there is no need to shout it out and show off to anyone. I have no agenda, or need the media spotlight to push my hetero views , to get this media sensationalism world involved. I just live my life, and my sexual orientation is kept private where it should be. Especially in a place of employment with kids , anything referring to sex of any sorts, should be a NO-NO

I have addressed your Golden Rule, and morality in the other thread

And in that thread I've addressed your ridiculous attempt to avoid the ubiquitously-accepted expectations on mature, honorable people regarding treating others as you would have them treat you.

So much hatred for traditional values, and so much willing acceptance of deviant behavior. How sad. Having looked at a few of the exchanges already, I don't think he's going to listen to anything you tell him Marmaduke49...I suggest praying for his tortured soul.

so much willing acceptance of deviant behavior.

Yes, including "willing acceptance" of your ignorance and bigotry, Jim.

Please explain to us: what exactly are "traditional values"? Any values YOU espouse?

Homosexual is not the same as pedophile there's a huge diffrence. And yes I would let my son, or daughter if I had them around such people, because they are people too. The boy scouts needs to change I'm a prior eagle scout, but I've been diagnosed with gender Identity disorder and am mentally female and trying to transition. I cannot support the scouts because of their intollerance and bigotry there is no place in America for intollerant people that way leads to the KKK and other such groups.

Jamie, You are misinformed. Jerry Sandusky was PEDOPHILE. He was not a homosexual. The two are not the same. Some basic research on the Internet may have helped you before you posted your comment. Since you rely so much on "scientific facts."

The guy at Penn State had a wife and 6 kids. By the BSA rules he could be a den leader.

Try to understand, a pedophile is not homosexual or heterosexual. I'm a straight man and have nothing in common with a child molester who targets little girls. Further, a homosexual is no more likely to be a pedophile than a heterosexual is.

OMG...Why do people bring up Sandusky! The man was STRAIGHT! He was married to a woman! He was a pedophile, who loved KIDS!

Now I don't mean love but a sick twisted thing with kids.

Fool..Sandusky is a pedophile...not a homosexual.
Get your head out of where it is and read a book...

Everyone is simply wrong on Sandusky for whiule he was a pedophile he was a homosexual pedophile, as opposed to a heterosexual pedophile. His wife couldn't have children, or so they said, so his kids were all adopted. No one has any proof he ever engaged in a sexual relationship with an adult female and assuming he did have sex with his wife, the fact is he targeted young boys because he wasa homosexual pedophile. If he were heterosexual his victims would have been young girls. Pedophilia refers to the desire for young children. The gender of your victim is determined by your heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality. To ENGESQ -- my oh my but you have a very inflated opinion of yourt own importance, which isn't rare among Progressives. While you may consider what BSA does unfair, bigoted or whatever, that's simply your opinion and nothing more. You see yourself as trying to right a wrong while I see you as a bigot pretending to do so so you can force your own beliefs upon others. We have to tolerate others, not accept them. I personally don't care whether or not someone is gay, but as a group I find gays to be among the biggest bigots on earth. No interest whatsoever in changing society to fit the needs of an extreme vocal minority. I don't force homosexuals to go to church. I don't force the Boy scouts to let Homosexuals be part of their organization.

Jeff, I (nor anyone else here) is forcing anyone to do anything. You seem to have a limited grasp on what is occurring here.

Jeff, you want to talk about an inflated opinion of your own worth, you keep quoting "facts" that you are just putting together in your head, thinking that because you thought them up, that makes them correct. I'll direct you to a comment farther up where it's explained that a pedophile having sex with a boy doesn't make them homosexual... it makes them a pedophile... pedophiles target based on convenience and access... he had access to boys, so that's what he did... for a pedophile it's about the age of the victim, not the gender... There may be no proof that he had sex with an adult woman, but there's no proof he had sex with an adult man, and being that he didn't have access to girls, there's no way to know what he would have done with them either...

Tiffany1

Homosexual is not the same as pedophile there's a huge diffrence. And yes I would let my son, or daughter if I had them around such people, because they are people too. The boy scouts needs to change I'm a prior eagle scout, but I've been diagnosed with gender Identity disorder and am mentally female and trying to transition. I cannot support the scouts because of their intollerance and bigotry there is no place in America for intollerant people that way leads to the KKK and other such groups.

Tiffany, this is being a little extreme don't you think? Comparing the BSA with the KKK? The BSA is not burning crosses or terrorizing people. At least not that I have heard. They are an organization that has stated principles and standards that others are trying to change from the outside. There is nothing wrong in the beliefs of the BSA...in fact, if asked most Americans would support the values of the BSA over those of homosexuals any day. A recent poll of pregnant women in traditiona relationships with boyfriends/husbands indicated that if a test could detect whether the baby was homosexual and if there was a drug that would guarantee that the baby would be heterosexual...would the parents elect taking the drug or administering it to their unborn child? The answer was almost 100% in the affirmative to take the drug...which indicated that the majority of parents would not wish for their child to be homosexual.

Sandusky himself said he was heterosexual.

Well there you go, it must be true... LOL

Asserting BSA's right to assembly as a private - non taxable - organization is generally advocated by those who see homosexuality as having moral relevancy to their own life style choices. It is generally viewed through a Biblical prism. When that changes with BSA's national leadership, this will no longer be the case.

He also said he never banged on little boys....hmmmm fiberchick... maybe he made an idjut out of you too.

Penn State let a homosexual man have access to young boys. It would be foolish to risk the lives of boys to sexual advances by a homosexual.

So, what are we going to do about the schools that let straight men have access to young girls?

I've seen several high schools that allow straight men to be coaches for girls' basketball teams. Even of your claims that " he was married, but his molesting boys means he was gay" were accurate ( which is not supported by any objective psychological sources ), and "the orientation automatically causes risk" nonsense were true, then you should be equally outraged at the schools who put those men in such positions. After all, it would be foolish to risk the lives of girls to advances by a heterosexual.

I wish... I would be like a Double Quad Golden Eagle Scout by now if they did. Joking aside, this has nothing to do with a lesson to teach. It's not like a bunch of cubby's sit around the campfire and degrade homosexuals or have a lesson plans on how they think it is immoral to be gay. This is one person wanting her few minutes of fame and getting her picture posted to start some crap because of her own lack of self worth. Her agenda, not the Scouts!

Oh man! I can see the rift already.

I think the majority of us recognize the BSA is well within their rights to do this. But then again so is the KKK within their rights to burn a cross on their own land.

We are not arguing they are outside of their rights, but that their decision was the wrong one. Not only for equality's sake, but also for the long term viability of the organization (as a former scout I hope the organization flourishes by incorporating more diversity rather than being exclusive).

According to you to you the decision was the wrong one. According to BSA this was the right decision for them, at this time.

Correct Lunchbox, hence the argument. This is entirely an issue of opinions. I personally am upset because I have a boy soon to be born and I want him to have the good experience of the scouts like I did. However I don't think I can be active in a discriminatory organization.

There are many people like me, and the BSA membership is constantly shrinking. They are viewed as antiquated today, and have a very tumultuous future ahead. I think going to a policy where each local group makes rules regarding religion and sexual orientation would be far better.

Ah yes... because the BSA made a decision that someone doesn't like, it's automatically "wrong". Same problem with the brain-dead religious zealots in this country. If someone doesn't believe what you believe then they're automatically "wrong". The idiotic majority of tiny-brained wipers of other people's bottoms in this country have become consumed with attempting to make criminals out of anyone who has an opinion other than their's, cloaking their argument in the concepts of being "just" or "right".

While I don't have to agree with their decision, as a private organization they have the right and the desire to keep certain people from participating in it. You don't have the "right" to force your views on them or to force them to change their's.

If you don't agree with their policy, then don't let your son join them when he's old enough. That's your decision, and you have all the right to make it however you want. If the BSA disappears over time because of their policies, and failing to adapt to changing culture, then that's up to them. However, forcing them to change just because you don't agree with their policies isn't your right.

Hotas, again, who is "forcing" them to do anything? Collection of signatures is not "forcing". Making it news is not "forcing". Openly criticizing is not "forcing". Withholding support is not "forcing".

Nobody is suggesting we make a law against the BSA, or in any way actually "force" them to do anything. They are in their rights, and we are within our rights to disagree with them.

This point has been made many times already. Please understand the discourse before joining in.

Why don't you try understanding that we read what you say. Understand what you say. Disagree with what you say and more importantly believe you base your position on your own personal beliefs which are somehow "right" as opposed to other's which are based on hatred and bigotry and are therefore "wrong". Sorry to burst that inflated bubble you live in, but the world was a better place for the vast majority of us when organizations like the BSA thrived. By the way show me a study that proves that diversity is good. The Boston Globe's of a few years back proved the opposite and no paper os more "progressive".

Sorry to burst that inflated bubble you live in, but the world was a better place for the vast majority of us when organizations like the BSA thrived.

What an idiotic statement. When this organization really thrived the world was exiting a massive world war that generated a huge demand for manufactured goods and the US was the only manufacturing source that hadn't been bombed to hell. When people look back at the 50s in nostalgia they seem to forget that the world was very different, and prosperity was all but guaranteed.

Diversity leads to issues. There is no doubt about that. But I also BELIEVE that it causes greater creativity, unique solutions, and a better environment. And lets face it, our world is becoming more and more diverse. Kids in the Boy Scouts will have to deal with others at some point, so the training here could be invaluable.

Further, since this is my belief, I will persuade the BSA to change policy. I am not forcing it, suggesting laws change etc. That tactic is only used by your side to close down abortion clinics or otherwise impose your beliefs.

The American psychatric community does not recogonize homosexuallity as a mental disorder, why don't you leave your bigotry at home why shouldn't homosexuals be who they are at all times, like straight people are.

I concur with nycguy! You wanted to throw your arms up to get attention for being gay and you got it, don't bitch about the Boy Scouts not bowing down to give you more. Life is not all about you no matter what your counsellor says... An organization should have the same rights to make their own call on this one.

why don't you leave your bigotry at home why shouldn't homosexuals be who they are at all times, like straight people are.

Or how about straight as well as gay people stop flaunting their sexuality.

.

Tiffany.....when only 3% of the population is inflicted with this abnormality.....you don't tell the 97% normal people that they are the ones out of step......

nycguy you nailed it right on the head.

Well said.

privately funded

Well, kinda. They receive a number of public funds at local levels as well as no cost or subsidized public resources. That stated I agree they are private and within their rights. I still think they made a bad call however.

She's a woman who loves the scouts, who supports them why should they allowed to be intollerant just because they are a private group? Individual rights trump rights of groups.

Not true. There is no inherent "right" to be involved in the Boy Scouts.

Tiffany, where I fully support your sentiment, technically she doesn't have a right to join a private organization, per se.

Right on, Bill. Like those women who wanted the right to vote, or the blacks that didn't want to be slaves. How dare they! Why should a majority change their ways for others!

Right on, Bill. Like those women who wanted the right to vote, or the blacks that didn't want to be slaves. How dare they! Why should a majority change their ways for others!

No, not like that. Women and blacks wanted Constitutional rights afforded to them in the same way that white men did. This is a private organization with strict moral guidelines. I don't see you complaining about girls not being included. They have there own scouting program. Why must the Boy Scouts conform when homosexuals can create a program better tailored to their beliefs that Boy Scouts ever could.

Cameron Ford

Right on, Bill. Like those women who wanted the right to vote, or the blacks that didn't want to be slaves. How dare they! Why should a majority change their ways for others!

Cameron, you seem to suffer from lack of comprehension. Not being a slave or voting are guaranteed constitutional rights, not wants.

Wanting to join a private group is a want, not a right. The Supreme Court has already ruled that.

To many believe that wants are rights, they are not.

How perfect! Theres the Boy Scouts, the Boys Scouting for Boys, the Girl Scouts, the Boy Scouts Scouting for Girl Scouts, The Girl Scouts Trying to Be Boys. And now, the new (since private clubs can do what they want) Confused Scouts, who are too young to know what they are yet. Aint America great? Everybody into the tents!

She should form a group called He/She Scouts. I am SO TIRED of this issue being the most important topic in the US today.

You are correct 100% case close. Let's move on.

Good way to put it Donald; "Perverted"

Why do they demand that their disgustingness’ be accepted and celebrated ?

"Stop using your sons life as a soapbox to get up and scream about gay rights".

You took the words right out of my mouth. Poor kids are the ones being abused. They don't know what the hell their so called Mom is doing to cause so much trouble for them. But she doesn't care. Dam is she ugly.

Fine, then go to a policy like the girl scouts where each locality can make their rules according to what members desire in each area.

A blanket ban on gays in the organization isn't right.

"A blanket ban on gays in the organization isn't right." -- That is an arbitrary statement...and one you will never be able to prove.

*sigh* Obviously that statement was my opinion. Clearly the BSA are well within their legal rights in excluding people, but for me discrimination is not moral.

Obviously we are at a place of battling morality, which is subjective anyway. On your side you have the bible, and on my side doctrins of equality. Hence the very colorful debate we are all having.

I do know, however, that in the long run this policy will be to the BSA's detriment based upon membership and funding.

EgnEsq -- (Sigh) ...it is interesting the gays are so undeducated on the gay issue...I never once mentioned the bible and it is irrelevant....and equality is not the issue.

Children are the issue...

Would parents want a fundamentalist strict Islamist as scout master, no matter how otherwise fine an inidividual he was?No...because you teach what you are. That is what being a role model is...

Similarly, while I may undersand that perhaps intellectually a defense could be made for necrophillia, since it harms nobody, I still would not want my children to be scout mastered by a necrophilliac....And THAT cuts to the heart of the gay agenda -- they hope that by a loud, persistent progaganda campaign, their values wll become accepted...and equality has nothing to do with it.

Suggesting the bible is being used as some sort of debating point is quite the strawman...too funny.

John, we were debating the merits of my statement of what is "right." I made the assumption that it was the bible on your side, but rather it is merely your dislike of gay people. That is even more pathetic.

EngEsq-- (sigh)...Nowhere did I say I dislike gay people. As I you understand you have no valid argument, I will let that strawman pass without futher remark.

The issue I will repeat once again, for your benefit, is the children..

....I may personally dislike a person, but if I understand, as an example, that person is the best piano teacher in the world and my child is studying piano, I will put my dislike aside...but if that person is a necrophelliac, fpr example, then my parental concern for the correct moral instruction of my child causes me to seek a different teacher.

I sometimes expect too much from the gay community...a simple, straightforward rational discussion seems at times too much...(Sigh again)

John, you are saying you don't want a gay person as a role model for kids. This means either 1) you are worried it will turn you kids gay, or 2) you dislike gay people to the point you don't want your kids around them.

I made another assumption that you weren't so stupid as to believe that gay people could influence your child's sexual orientation. Ergo, I assumed you were worried your kid might not be bigoted like you, hence my comment about dislike.

So which is it:

1) you think your kid will turn gay

2) You are worried about "morals", in which gay is only immoral according to biblical standards, or

3) You can't stand gays and the concept of your kids near them is unbearable.

That sigh must have really pissed you off :)

Oh, and I'm not gay.

If this organization is going to be like that I would never want my future son or son's to be involved. This rule is teaching the kids to discriminate and that is the opposite of what I want to teach my kids. So what if a scout master is gay, I had a girl scout troop mom who was gay and she was the best!

EngEsq -- Gays are typically uniformed on gay issues and usually decide to believe what fits their world view rather than what is true (sigh)

The origin of sexual preference is understood to be set early in life, but not at birth. It is believed to have a large genetic component, but it is also understood that the environment does play a role...if one wishes to get speculative, one can also point out that most traits are not strictly Mendelian...and in fact gene expression is dynamic, and often depends dynamically upon the environment...

The claim made by the gay community that there can be no influence is rather a strong one, motivated not by a desire to understand the actual truth of child development, but rather by a desire to promote their gay agenda...we also lack longitudinal studies of the effect of same sex parents on child development...we have at the present a rather limited knowledge, and you can find studies that poke wholes in the gay position...

Again, for your benefit, it is the children that are important, not the agenda of any one group.

No group has the right to put their interests above children given that children are dependent on us and rely on our good judgement to raise them. Gays don't care...nothing is as important as their agenda. Hence the gay attack on the BSA.

Oh Arthur Duke

I don't even know what to say....... I think somebody has issues for sure.

Dang.

Depraved narcissists who think that sticking their wanker in the fudge port is normal.

People who promote this disgusting behavior are just plain Evil.

I applaud the Boy Scouts of America for sticking to their guns. It is a PRIVATE company and they should be able to enforce rules as they see fit. The government has over stepped its bounds too many times and become much too large. People, companies, clubs should be able to have and enforce their own set of standards, if it offends you, find different friends, companies, clubs. Too many people whine and cry about things being biased and unfair, get over it, it's life.

gtouch, so their should be fairness for everything right??? Isn't that what liberals want?

So if an organization started banning Christians and straight people, you wouldn't have a problem with it? Nobody would speak out or protest that?

No problem whatsoever Cameron. I don't want to belong to a group of aethiest gays.

I'd be willing to bet that there already are organizations that do that, albeit they are probably smaller and less well known. I'm sure you'll be please to know that I lose no sleep over the topic.

Would I be ok with that? You bet your sweet bippy I would, I wouldn't want to be a part of them to begin with and would simply say "To each their own". The last I looked we are still a free country and that means we are free to choose whom we associate with.

Cameron wants you to accept his homosexuality as normal... right Cameron?

SOCalguy

Best idea I have heard all day but they wouldn't do that because they wouldn't have anything to B***h

about

The answer to your question should be obvious, it would not get the attention of the media and it wouldn't advance their agenda of spreading the liberal gay agenda throughout the world.

ENOUGH!!!Let me understand this.A group has rules.I dont care if its pro this anti that whatever,its there group and there rules (exp Masters Golf Tourney)You dont have to go!!You want to change there rules there belifes to fit YOU.What if some Boy scouts dont like gays and leave the scouts because of YOU!Let me guess thats OK.It's fine,great to yourself just dont try to impose on others.I'm not just talking about gays.

I agree with you 100% rules are rules.

Not to be a total arse here, but, if the Boy Scouts are so ardently anti-homosexual, how then did this lady make it all the way to being a scout master!?!?

Well, Den Leader but the process is the same, really.

The long answer to your question is:
While National Council has rules in place demanding background checks of adult volunteers, where and how the background check is performed depends on the level of the position being applied for. For most local unit volunteer positions, the background checks are part local unit, part local council. Once these two groups sign off on the individual, National Council accepts the background check.

So in this case, the unit's background check approved her by putting the volunteer application in front of local council, and local council saw no reason to disapprove.

This very case, and the story someone mentioned on page one regarding the Northern Star Council remaining inclusive, highlights the growing disconnect between National Council in Irving, TX and local councils across the nation.

This is America, you can protest the actions of a private entity just as much as you can a public entity

James--- Yes... And when Gays do that, they do show a lack of regard for the rights of other groups -- except themselves. Was there actually a point you were attempting to make? That gays can act stupidly, perhaps?