Larry,

"If you prosecuted every serviceman who hooked up with a prostitute on foreign service you wouldn't have many left."

That's right. I think military members are expected to fornicate with prostitutes when stationed abroad. If they don't, everyone will think there's something wrong with them.

Bill Clinton was not impeached for getting BJ's but we all know that he did not considered that "sexual relations". The difference is if it is on you own personal time and if the act can impact any national security issue.

The Secret Service crossed the line with girls in the room, the article does not detail the soldier duties but I suspect they were expected to be on duty and not a port of call booty run.........

yes, but shouldn't those scamps have paid?

And we wonder why there is such a sex trade problem ! You have to stop the people that use the service.

gbagbc

And we wonder why there is such a sex trade problem ! You have to stop the people that use the service

Who said there is a problem? It's been around since dawn of man and will always be here. Some folks are slow on picking up on the realities of life.

Sun comes up in the East, hookers will ply their trade.

Geez!! They need to leave these guys alone. I was in the military and this is common place, we used to talk about which countries had the cheaper ones. Which counties had the skankiest ones. This is not going to stop and really nothing is wrong with it. Que Sera Sera

Men will be men!! and if any woman, ugly like this Colombian walks by, their head falls 3 feet!!! then they start thinking with there "other" head with no brain!! sorry, My concern if with the wives and kids they left back home!!!

Only if people like you continue to believe this way. Women don't become prostitutes because they want to and they rarely to get keep the money they make, it goes to the men that keep them in these roles. If men stopped believing "boys will be boys: and started expecting men to be honorable we would't have John's willing to buy women like cattle at an auction. These men are a disgrace to the uniform and should be court marshalled.

"Women don't become prostitutes because they want to"

So what do you say about the ones that do? Hope you know, not everyone goes to church on sundays either.

Sandy, I agree 100% lets give them the same punishment as the commander in chief who got the lewinskis....Oh, that's right, he promised her a job not cold hard cash, it's o.k. if you go through all the social formalities of dinner, a movie, chocolates etc..Take out all the red tape and it is wrong. And your right, no woman wants to be a prostitute, making the money they do, regardless of how low their self esteem really is. Since this is a new thing, (since sodom and gamora) maybe it won't catch on. For the rest of you nay-sayers, The military has time off, they are not there working 24 hours a day, so, when they are on "liberty" they are free to take liberties. But hey, turn our military into boyscouts, maybe canada will defend this nation when we have a bunch of pussies for soldiers.

Sandy, I hate to burst your bubble, but most pro's are on the make because they WANT too...

Some because they are too lazy to try for a job (even in the good times), some because they think its good money. and some because its the fastest way to the drug house.

Yes, as in all things there are those ready to take advantage, but that is life, and sooner than later what goes around will come around.

@ Sandy, they don't become prostitutes because they want to? No, they probably become prostitutes because, in the Columbian economy, that's one of the few professions in which they can get decent pay and some time for leisure or to care for their children.

You obviously have a better life to offer them... once you fix the Columbian economy and make higher education and childcare available to these women? No, you don't have a solution, so you offer to make the problem worse by taking away a tenable way for them to make ends meet.

You arrogantly assume you know what's best for these women and their bodies. I guarantee reality gets in the way of your WASPy pipe dream, but be my guest, and do something to help these women if you care. Otherwise, condemn some lonely soldiers who are giving women the cash they need for their company.

They are only held to a higher standard if their orders explicitly disallowed an activity that other service members routinely take part in. The only standing order is conduct that might bring discredit upon the service, or the United States. The military will have a hard time showing that the service members knew their conduct would bring discredit if it took place behind closed doors, and like you said, " There would be a lot of servicemen getting in trouble". In Korea prostitution is illegal, but condoned, so service members utilize the service. In German and other countries prostitution is legal and regulated. I know of many places in central and south america where it is legal.

I also saw a post where someone said nobody choses to be a prostitute. I'm afraid that in the case of some of these South American countries, your statement is utterly false. There are places where you will find social groups of prostitutes that prey on service members and foreign nationals. The money they make as a prostitute is astronomical compared to what they would make choosing more conventional jobs. You couldn't pry them away with a crowbar from what they are doing for a living.

If it were me I would take the courts martial if my orders, or the orders for the theater of operations did not forbid sexual encounters, or sexual encounters with prostitutes. Now, if they were married and did it.. No hope for them.

I wonder what countries we bombed, what government we toppled, or what laws passed while this was going on. Who the @!$%# cares who @!$%#s what?

I think that the real question is what was the policy in place? Was there a specific policy that prohibited that kind of activity. I've never understood paying for something that you can get for free, but that isn't the issue. I've known a number of women who have no problems with their husband paying for a prostitute when they are overseas for extended periods. This is especially with military personnel. I suppose it's better to get it from someone who wouldn't be an object that creates a personal attachment. I guess the real question is: what are the directives to the agents. If they've been told not to seek out prostitutes, then they should be disciplined. If not, then that is a different story. One should not assume that every else thinks like them.

No problem with military discipline, but prosecuting them is total bs. If it is on their own time, and it isn't a security issue, leave the courts out of it. Once in my military career, I was met at the base gate, and taken to CID officer. It seems that I had taken an eastern European girl home from a bar, that was being watched for reasons I did not know. She was Yugoslavian, I was an American who had a fair grasp of the German language, and no knowledge of whatever the hell she spoke. When asked what did we talk about, my reply was how in the hell did I know, she didn't speak German or English. My job required a top secret clearance, and I was disciplined internally, and told that my clearance and my job would be in jeopardy if I wasn't more careful with my selection of friends. I heeded the instructions.

"... I was disciplined internally,"

That must have hurt.

I like that! Maybe I meant internationally. :-)

And they fired the soldier mom that stuck her breast out to feed her twins??? ( as they should have cause she was gross) not the breastfeeding, the way she breast fed us all even when we were not asking for milk!!!

Sandy1234567 -- Be silent as you are foolish and knoweth nothing of what u speak.

AVINSV, get over yourself.

In high school, they'd nitpick over minor violations like tardiness. In college, it was people's own business whether or not they wanted to come to class, and an understood that you would likely have your grades suffer. Have a part-time job? Have sports stuff? Sure whatever, the responsibility is yours, you are an adult.

So here you have people who fight and die for this country. I don't agree with it, I'm a pacifist. But I know **** well that they deserve whatever privileges they can get. They wanna go around with prostitutes despite being married? Breastfeed? Have sex with others of their own sex? Sure, go ahead, they've earned the right. This "soldiers have a higher standard" is nonsense.

Lynn3765

People LIKE YOU IN THE MIITARY THAT SUPPORT CRIMINAL ACTIONS SCARE ME. and should put fear into every American's soul. That is what the North Korean military does. Burma's military does. I DO NOT WANT A MILITARY DICTATORSHIP!!!!!!!! Even sicker is you people Abuse Military Censorship laws !!!

Does any other American on this page want military rule. STAND UP TO THESE PEOPLE NOW

trantham...what in the world are you babbling about?

Lynn

your an ant-American militarist domestic terrorist I hope you get cancer. Freedom destroyer

I know I am going to regret asking this but sometimes it is fun to poke at the, uhm, weaker links. I take it you had a run in with some servicemembers or are you basing your rather outrageous comment on a few stories of military misconduct and painting all servicemembers with the same brush?

My particular service dealt with the protection of commerce in the ports including container ships that probably brought over many of the goods you use. I saved several lives in search and rescue operations, saving, uhm, less than intelligent people who SHOULD have been left to their own devices due to their own stupidity and lack of common sense instead of putting my crew at risk, but, out we went anyway.

By your defintion I should have allowed terrorists to blow up the ports or let people die due to their own stupidity...yeah...really anti-American.

I take you have never served.

I take it you had a run in with some servicemembers or are you basing your rather outrageous comment on a few stories of military misconduct and painting all servicemembers with the same brush?

More likely one of the 3 out of 4 disqualified for service due to physical, mental, or legal reasons.

could not have said it better. "Boys will be Boys", if not, they would be like JS in SD not allowed to have any fun.

What ever happened to honor and dignity. What happened to protecting women. I see nothing but disgrace to the uniform and cowardice. "No harm no foul" really?

"What ever happened to honor and dignity."

It went away when eve took a bite into that apple, if you believe in that sort of thing.

sandy1234567 you a whore to someone and if not your a lesbo

@ billypet--so's your mom.

Sandy1234567

What world are you living in. You sound like someone living in a fantasy world. Waiting for someone to arrive at your door in shining armor to sweep you off your feet, care for your every need, will only have eyes for you. Think you read to many fantasy books. Guys are not perfect. No one is.

It happens in the military on both sides, female and male. When you go long time not being with the opposite sex, even the ugly girls start to look attractive after awhile. Yes this columbian is pretty ugly. At least in my opinion, but then a couple of booze, not having sex in a while can do somethings you would not normally do.

yeah boy they get prettier at closing time!.............think that was part of a song way back

If any of the one's actualy under NJP had been officers vice enlisted the likely charges would probably have been bringing discredit to the service and/or conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman..yes, both of those charges are present in the UCMJ.

It is still expected that military members conduct themselves in due respect to the uniform they wear. Think of Tailhook back in 1991. It could be said the same thing that "boys will be boys" but it put a serious black eye on the face of the Air Force for years.

Prostitution is illegal in the US even if it isn't in Mexico and while abroad servicemembers are expected to not only uphold the laws of the country they are visiting but also to uphold the laws of the US when they conflict with local laws that are illegal in the US. In other words, even if it would be legal to steal in a another country, a US servicemember would get charged with theft if the action came to light. If we think about it, this whole thng would never have come out had the person simply paid the prosititute the money owed...she was the one that made the accusation and that is when this whole thing "exploded," so to speak.

Before someone asks, I retired from active duty after 24 years and we don't just hear about the UCMJ during boot camp. The core values of the service(s) aren't just words but words respective servicemembers are expected to live by..I post them here:

The Air Force core values are:
- Integrity First
- Service Before Self
- Excellence In All We Do

The Army core values are:
- Loyalty
- Duty
- Respect
- Selfless Service
- Honor
- Integrity
- Personal Courage

The Navy and Marine Corps core values are:
- Honor
- Courage
- Commitment

The Coast Guard core values are:
- Honor
- Respect
- Devotion to Duty

Tailhook was a real eye-opener for the USN.

Tailhook 1991 was NAVY not the Air force. 300 Navel Officers lost their jobs. Also Prostitution is illegal in the UCMJ!! The act or preceved act of supporting prostittion is illegal.

A married, active military service spouse engaging in consenual sex with a nonspouse is ground for court martial.

Engaging a Prostitute for illicit sex by an active military personal is not the only requirement to be court martial for immoral behavior.

Having said that, the Pentagon/ US Marines operated a whore house in the base camp of Dan Nang, Vietnam for several years during the Vietnam War. And all the military brass knew what the GI were doing in the Saigon go-go bars or bars adjacent to the Thailand B-52 base or Subic Bay of the Phillipines. Let's not talk about Japan.

Sorry...Navy...I had planes in the back of my mind :)

During the first Iraq conflict, we (2,000+US Marines) sailed from Morehead, NC on a USN vessel to Rota, Spain. Where we only left the ship to preform a PFT and then sailed for the Indian Ocean. After our 'shell back' ceremony, we sailed for Mombasa, Kenya...

Prior to leaving the ship, after being at sea for over 45+days. We were required to have; a button down shirt, a ID card, and a issued condom...

We had been informed that; 90% of the working ladies had HIV, the water would make us sick, the wood cravings were green wood/would fall-apart, and that the food would also make us sick...

The Officers could leave the city and go on safaris, over-night...

The Enlisted were restricted to the harbor area, mostly hookers & small shops. Plus they had only 8+hours of liberty...

Some people decided to stay on the ship, it sailed 4+days later to the island paradise of Diego Garcia...

Others tried the venues offered & even returned with trophies. Some of these were later admitted to sick-bay...

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/134138.htm

That should give you a partial answer.  In addition under federal law:

Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for the purposes of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age, (22 USC § 7102; 8 CFR § 214.11(a)).

Please read. Our clandestine intelligence officers did not pay the bill. THAT made it a crime.

Read carefully. They aren't sex trafficking. They're participating in prostitution. In most US states, this is not a crime.

Bassai, good of you to post something without reading it - the basic condition of the article is that the "Commercial Sex Act is Induced by Force, Fraud, or Coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age."

NONE of those are part of this event as the Prostitute - and potentially others - were not conducting these activities under any coercion by the military or any force, fraud or other part of this was encountered. She didn't get paid by the Secret Service Agents who were already dealt with. Any military involvement - would at best be an act by some wouldbe Politician/Officer who thinks he can get an advancement through the punishment (abuse) of those involved.

There are a number of UCMJ articles addressing conduct unbecoming - and they are applicable to all enlisted. Additional ones (and convenient adjustments of tolleration) are applicable to officers - but the simple side of this is that the media is still stiring up the mess to gain headlines.

The lady needs to figure out real quick that this much attention can backfire - Columbia is not a place you want to flaunt your wealth or become too visible - when you are not one of the elite.

As a matter of
fact it there are a number of different regulations forbidding this kind of
action. The ironic thing is that President Bush made combating this type of
action a high priority and every active duty, government civilian and civilian
contractor that works for the US government must now take an annual "Human
Trafficking" refresher course meant to educate them on not only the
penalties if they get caught but also the moral issues since many of the
establishments that cater to this cliental have coerced women to leave their
home countries for better paying restaurant jobs only to find out these
restaurant’s main course are naïve minors from far away lands. Of
course it is impossible for a person to stay naïve forever so a lot of my
co-workers justified their behavior at bars outside Osan and Kusan by noting
that a lot of the girls were in the phase of just trying to get one of them to
marry them. This doesn’t change the fact that when most of them left the Philippines
they were 14 and were under the impression they were going to work for
legitimate establishments.

But what is even more frustrating than all of this is that the US taxpayer is paying every government employee and contractor 1 hour of salary every year, making this a program spending hundreds of millions of dollars in order to stop this behavior, yet from the outcome of this incident and the majority of the comments here, we see that neither the current administration nor the American public believes in the objective.

@Bassai - What you posted may be true, unfortunately none of it applies to this situation. Also, US federal laws have no bearing on what you do when you are in a foreign country. In a foreign country you are subject to their laws, not ours!!! It is the ignorance of this fact that gets so many people like you into trouble when you travel abroad, you fail to learn about or pay any attention to laws in the country you are visiting that may be vastly different from ours.

Article 134 is used for cases of prostitution.

No JS, not quite. Servicemembers are held accountable under the UCMJ regardless of local laws. What may be legal in one country could be illegal under US law and US servicemembers will be held accountable under the articles of the UCMJ.

During Clinton rein, the USA signed a UN Treaty of trafficking that made it a US Felony...

The Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, especially Women and Children (also referred to as the Trafficking Protocol) was adopted by the United Nations in Palermo, Italy in 2000.

(a) Exploitation shall include, at a minimum, the exploitation of the prostitution of others or other forms of sexual exploitation, forced labour or services, slavery or practices similar to slavery, servitude or the removal of organs.

(b) The consent of a victim of trafficking in persons to the intended exploitation set forth in subparagraph (a) of this article shall be irrelevant where any of the means set forth in subparagraph (a) have been used...

(c) The recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of a child for the purpose of exploitation shall be considered “trafficking in persons” even if this does not involve any of the means set forth in subparagraph (a) of this article;

(d) “Child” shall mean any person under eighteen years of age.^[2]

^{So you can do anything you want, in a country where it is legal, but just remember you can be punished in the USA...}

Observation-5577383
Bassai, good of you to post something without reading it -

Good of you to make a comment with no basis to it.

All we know of is the one prostitute that has been out in public. For all we know some of the others may have been under age. If so then that law will apply.

JS in SD@Bassai - What you posted may be true, unfortunately none of it applies to this situation. Also, US federal laws have no bearing on what you do when you are in a foreign country. In a foreign country you are subject to their laws, not ours!!! It is the ignorance of this fact that gets so many people like you into trouble when you travel abroad, you fail to learn about or pay any attention to laws in the country you are visiting that may be vastly different from ours.

As you say ignorance is what gets you in trouble.

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 117 - TRANSPORTATION FOR ILLEGAL SEXUAL ACTIVITY AND RELATED
CRIMES

(c) Engaging in Illicit Sexual Conduct in Foreign Places. - Any
United States citizen or alien admitted for permanent residence who
travels in foreign commerce, and engages in any illicit sexual
conduct with another person shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

DoD Instruction 2200.01

4. POLICY. It is DoD policy to:
a. Oppose prostitution, forced labor, and any related activities as described in section 3 that may contribute to the phenomenon of TIP as inherently harmful and dehumanizing. TIP is a violation of U.S. law and internationally recognized human rights, and is incompatible with DoD core values.

b. Deter activities of DoD Service members, civilian employees, indirect hires, contract personnel, and command-sponsored dependents that would facilitate or support TIP, domestically and overseas. This includes activities such as pandering, prostitution, and patronizing a prostitute even though such activities may be legal within a host nation country, but which are in violation of chapter 47 of title 10, U.S.C. (also known as "The Uniform Code of Military Justice" (Reference (f)) and paragraph 97, part IV of Manual for Courts-Martial 2008 (Reference (g)).

The investigation wasn't the only thing "Sloppy"!

Anyone can request trial by court martial for even simple disciplinary cases. The problem is that if they are found guilty, the possible penalties increase in number and tend to be more severe than a simple NJP. Part of this is due to the level of the "judge." NJP, depending upon the unit, may be limited to a low ranking officer or higher ranking enlisted who have disciplinary limits. A court martial justice, however, is going to be a mugh higher ranking official and they have more, shall we say, firepower, when it comes to possible consequences. A violation adjudicated in a an NJP process that would normally result in a low fine or maybe base restriction could result in more severe fines, reduction in rank of three or more grades, discharge or even confinement (ie brig time) in a court martial process.

I know of very few, who had the choice, to choose court martial over NJP unless they truly had absolute solid proof of innocence. In some violations a court martial hearing is required and NJP cannot be chosen.

Do we have any "hard" evidence that they actually did anything?

Maybe this ugly girl is just making accusations, since she knows it'll get her 15 min of fame.

After speaking with a reservist who is a commercial merchant mariner as his civilian occupation, you don't mess with the prosititutes in Cartagena. You play, you pay or else.

He also said that the prostitutes are actually pretty solid in that regard. Pay what they ask and they are fine with it...try to barter and you are proverbial toast.

I beg to differ on the illegal part. The Uniform Code of Military Justice which was passed by the Congress has acts that are legal in civilian life but not in a military setting. For example, you can say anything derrogatory about the president, but not in the military. You can sign a petition but not in the military when you are in uniform.

The US Secret service is not the military.

As well I never did anything considered derogatory WHILE in uniform, wink!

Doggone Mary Ann, I guess I missed you while I was in the service, my loss! :)

Of course while I was doing "all that bad" stuff I wasn't in my uniform either! - wink, wink!

@Retiredarmy89

When was sex illegal? If it is we all be locked up.

Didn't say sex was illegal. I said there were probably orders that they failed to follow. That would be illegal. Mary Ann. Secret Service is not under the UCMJ. Triple wink.

Mary..most of what is being spoken of here are the actual servicemembers, not the Secret Service.

Again, they refused to pay the 'bill' as it were. THAT made it a crime.

They are Republican, what do you expect?

they didn't pay. That's why the uh workers got mad.

Thanks The prostitutes in DC are making real money thanks to the voters.

What's hilarious, Obama is a prostitute....We are sending him our money so he can FV(K us all

13 Blavo; by your comment I can tell you're pretty much clueless.

Secret Service personnel are not appointed or brought in by any administration. There's no "Secret Services "R" Us store to go hire from after every term's up. Many of these people involved have been around a few presidents.

I'm not surprised you thought otherwise, after all that takes critical thinking and we all know how Republitards hate that. :)

Take your partisan head out of your.... and smell fresh air for a change. :)

The new liberal armed forces would rather have their gay relationships, but

heaven help them if they have a straight one.

Thank you CJ. It's funny how military has been supporting prostitutes overseas for hundreds of years, (kinda like the enlisted man's foreign aid) but under the liberal rules, a man paying for sex with a woman is wrong, even though there is a specific article in the UCMJ regarding sodomy, but, nobody is brought up on charges for taking the high hard one up the A$$ under this adminstration even though it is in direct violation of the UCMJ.

Wow what a racist **** you are. :)

Hulubalulu:

I enjoyed your character as Dale Gribble on King of the Hill.

Slim K, of course you watch cartoons, look at who you support for president.