Government gobbledygook: It's dying a slow, painful death

Center for Plain Language

The Center for Plain Language assessed 12 federal agencies' compliance with the Plain Writing Act of 2010, which took effect last year.

The federal government got a mixed report card Thursday for its compliance with the law that says it has to write clearly and simply.

The Agriculture Department has met 93 percent of the requirements of the Plain Writing Act, which went into effect in October, according to a study by the Center for Plain Language. It was the only government agency to get an "A" from the nonprofit Washington think tank.

The Department of Veterans Affairs, on the other hand, is still mired in battological periphrasis, earning the only F after having met only 10 percent of the requirements. 

The Center for Plain Language, a nonprofit Washington think tank, gave out two grades to each of 12 federal agencies. The first rated compliance with measurable goals in the Plain Writing Act; the second reflected the center's assessment of how well each agency has followed the "spirit" of the law.

M. Alex Johnson M. Alex Johnson is a breaking news and projects reporter for NBCNews.com. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook.

On each measure, the Agriculture Department led the way, earning one of only two B grades on the "spirit" measure, in addition to the only A for compliance.


"We are confident that there has been a USDA sea-change on plain writing" since the law took effect, the center said.

The Department of Health and Human Services got the other B for compliance from the center, which gave it high marks for trying diligently to simplify all those frustrating federal benefit forms. The report praised senior management at HHS for "modeling" plain language and for introducing agencywide training programs in clear writing.

"Some federal agencies have embraced the Plain Writing Act, and others haven't," Rep. Bruce Braley, D-Iowa, who sponsored the anti-gobbledygook bill, told reporters Thursday.

Read the Center for Plain Language's full assessment of each department

But "we still have a long way to go to make government forms and documents simpler and easier for taxpayers to understand," said Braley, who has introduced similar legislation to simplify the language of government regulations.

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Take the VA. It ranked last, drawing an "F" in both categories, indicating that the Center for Plain Language detected no effort to clean up its writing, as characterized by this passage from the VA's Statement of Regulatory Priorities, published in January (.pdf):

Pursuant to section 6 of Executive Order 13563 "Improving Regulation and Regulatory Review" (Jan. 18, 2011), the following Regulatory Identifier Numbers (RINs) have been identified as associated with retrospective review and analysis in the Department's final retrospective review of regulations plan. Some of these entries on this list may be completed actions, which do not appear in The Regulatory Plan. However, more information can be found about these completed rulemakings in past publications of the Unified Agenda on Reginfo.gov in the Completed Actions section for that agency. These rulemakings can also be found on Regulations.gov.

(Those links aren't clickable in the electronic document, by the way, making it even more difficult to get at the information.)

"Unless federal agencies are held accountable, they won't implement the changes required by the Plain Writing Act," Braley said. "... Until these grades are all A-plus, we're going to keep holding bureaucrats' feet to the fire."

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  • 3 votes
#1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:51 PM EDT

If any of the departments mentioned need help translating the gross verbosity into language anybody can understand, then let me know. I live in the South and am quite accustomed to translating political and economic concepts to simple-minded folk.

With Fox News spewing a continuous stream of fear mongering and misinformation, somebody has to. It is also the only way to live in the South and remain sane. That may sound elitist to some, but there you go. Besides, I enjoy writing and could use the extra money!!!

Wow, a job pitch and a right wing slam, all in one!

  • 16 votes
#1.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:03 PM EDT

hahahahaha

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:13 PM EDT

Imagine that. And we can't even fire their sorry azzes...though interesting how HHS improved....hmmm.

onemanvolt....

Obviously you are one of the unmotivated, no ambition having, rich envy hating takers of the 1% who pay to support you.

How about that FOX Spew? Hmmm....nice and drippy!

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:34 PM EDT

Perhaps the Center for Plain Language can grade our White House and Congress for some laws written “plainly and simply”.

Let’s start with a budget. A “plain and simple” budget. It’s only been 1,177 days since the largest economy in the history of the world has presented ANY budget, let alone a plain and simple one. How long do the criminals in government expect us to believe they can get us out of this massive debt quagmire without a clear written plan? The fact that we give our hard earned money to the government AS REQUIRED and they can’t create a basic budget should not only be a concern, it should be an insult to every American citizen. It’s the governments Constitutional responsibility to present and follow a budget. To think any one person in our government is smart enough to run an economy this big is delusional.

Next let’s write a “plain and simple” economic plan. None of this immediate gratification nonsense they have been shoving down our throats for decades. A long term common-sense plan to return our economy to what it was when we were a creditor nation, the world’s leading exporter and success and accomplishment were regarded as rewards rather than failures.

In conjunction with, and just as importantly, the above issues we need a “plain and simple” education plan. A plain and simple K-12 plan that teaches the basics rather than the politically correct nonsense we’ve been forced to accept. For America to continuously rank in the bottom 1/3 of all OECD nations in math, science and reading should be the ultimate outrage to every American. We keep hearing how we need to “Win the Future” when we can’t even keep up with the present. We are graduating illiteracy from our high schools for over 30 years. We are losing generations to ignorance and we wonder why we are no longer competitive on the global stage.

We need a “plain and simple” plan to reestablish our vanishing export manufacturing industries. This is especially important as we restore our education system so that the “less educated” can earn a respectable wage. Trade, tax, regulation, union and other reforms must be established to bring as many basic jobs back as possible. As much as we need engineers, doctors, teachers and lawyers (well, maybe not so much lawyers), we need welders, manual laborers and garbage-men just as badly. To think just sending everyone to college and graduating with some over-supplied degree will fix all our problems is ridiculous.

Then we need a “plain and simple” solution to our immigration problem. For 30 years it has been a political football. The immigrants who are following the law should be disgusted with this political pandering, but more importantly so should we. All the people who have become legal citizens over the past 30 years should be appalled by the games our government plays with the laws for their political benefit. I’m sure we will soon see this issue become another hot-potato during the campaign and once it’s over it will be swept under the rug as usual.

Plain and simple is what we need, not 2,734 pages of Health Care reform that will evolve into a massive unsustainable bureaucracy filled with waste, fraud, abuse and corruption. Not 2,166 pages of financial reform that will do nothing. We have plenty of laws, regulations and rules, what we don’t have is enforcement and punishment of them.

  • 15 votes
#1.4 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:36 PM EDT

JimSpence,

Lengthy...but couldn't agree more....unfortunately, the IDIOCRACY you are trying to reach is incapable of understanding a word of it.

Well said!

  • 8 votes
#1.5 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:50 PM EDT

JimSpence, great illustration of why we don't get plain and simple talk.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." Lily Tomlin

  • 7 votes
#1.6 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:09 AM EDT

I love Lily, but that is about as cynical as it gets.

    #1.7 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:48 AM EDT

    Once again I ask...and you want these people running your healthcare? Really???? Don't punish others for your liberal self-loathing, keep it all to yourself.

    • 2 votes
    #1.8 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:50 AM EDT

    Some common sense here... It is reasonable to conclude that Agriculture could simplify their language. After all, growing, irrigating, cultivating and harvesting are not "loaded" words. On the other hand Defense is in a much more complicated pickle. For instance, it is a lot more publicly digestable to inform the sensitive American people that al Qaeda in Afghanistan has been "effectively neutralized and no longer a viable threat to our allies" than "we blew the heads off of a bunch of jerks that wanted to murder us.

    That said... it might be interesting to see what Defense does come up with.

    • 4 votes
    #1.9 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:53 AM EDT

    aww LB, you're such a party pooper - this thread was moving along quite civilly until you chimed in with your puny vituperation. Please pull the rock back over your hole, TYVM.

    • 3 votes
    #1.10 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:55 AM EDT

    maybe i am one og the many hicks you people think dont deseve health care.. but i do know that 502 people die each week simply casue they dont have healthcare i know this for a fact cause my wife was one of them..she would no see a dr casue she didnt think we had the money to spare for it it took 4 hours of everyone in the famially tag teaming her to get her to go to hospital which we did after she refuse for a month to go to dr.. and out here i you call for an ambulance if the person u call about refuses to go they can not take them... so after the tag team effort she went 10 days later we were told it was to late to save her so we brought her home to die..anyway point is yes we need a balanced budget no we dont sacrafice people to do it.. and one thing that waste money if the house repeatedly voting to out law something they have no control over the vote is BULL@!$%# STOP CALLING FOR VOTE YOU ARE WASTING OUR MOMEY @!$%#S!

    • 3 votes
    #1.11 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:11 AM EDT

    onemanvolt....

    Obviously you are one of the unmotivated, no ambition having, rich envy hating takers of the 1% who pay to support you.

    Um, not exactly.

    I'm a middle-aged, sarcastic, often caustic, proud American with somewhat of a pedigree.

    I'm a small business owner and employee of a major American corporation. I'm proud of what I do.

    I work hard, and I play when I can.

    I expect my government to be the power that enforces the balance between greed, and social justice.

    I recognize that I am but one living being on a planet of other beautiful, wonderful creatures, and I respect each and every one of them, often to my own sacrifice.

    I recognize that everyone has a voice in government and compromise is essential.

    I recognize that, at this time, compromise is not possible with those who refuse to recognize the very word.

    I'm a science-minded individual who is naturally open to new points of view as new evidence emerges.

    • 8 votes
    #1.12 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:20 AM EDT

    O.K. I read the Affordable Care Act. Please explain secton 9 to me? I have a little trouble understandin why the taxes outlined aren't really taxes.

    • 4 votes
    #1.13 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:35 AM EDT

    they are breaking the law fine em, fire em, replace em.

    • 1 vote
    #1.14 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:59 AM EDT

    jim spence;i have heard what you wrote since a kid,my father said as much as you.only question i have is how do you enforce goobledygook in a system that perfected it with people who no matter what they say to get the job,will enforce goobledygook?(and no,i dont mean this to sound like (cant say it again))

      #1.15 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:53 AM EDT

      onemanvolt...

      Wow, a job pitch and a right wing slam, all in one!

      LMAO, between your two posts above it is a wonder that you haven't realized how well you define yourself as part of of the problem. You may indeed have shown us your propensity for verbosity, but that is hardly justification for hiring you to simplify government documentation.

      Someday, I might listen to fox news to see why progressives and liberals view it with such disdain. Then again, perhaps you think that compromise applies only if opposing views capitulate to your own.

      I'm a science-minded individual who is naturally open to new points of view as new evidence emerges.

      Really? Looks more like you just need to re-evaluate how you interpret the data points or perhaps just walking a mile in anothers shoes would enlighten you.

      • 4 votes
      #1.16 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:03 AM EDT

      "We have to pass the bill to know what's in it." ---Nancy Pelosi

      Federal gobbledygook is alive and well.

      • 4 votes
      #1.17 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:50 AM EDT

      Federal language is written by the lawyers, for the lawyers, to keep lawyers making lots of money.

      • 5 votes
      #1.18 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:30 AM EDT

      One man...........I think it is obvious that with so many people like lib... and american.... in the country that know that THEY are right and everyone else like you (and now probably me) are the problem.........It is hopeless.

        #1.19 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:39 AM EDT

        The Federal govt is stuck in it's own broken-down nightmare, costing our nation alot more than just looking bad. The federal political system is ....corrupt at best. Neither party is above the corruption and neither party will have or has any true solution to any of the major issues. Are there any solutions?

        At the rate We are going as a nation under the current status quo the system does't have much left in it. Then what happens? We are sitting here watching, copy-catting our political mouth pieces, calling each other names comfortable in our own political beliefs, ethics, morals, opinions (or lack there of ). Mean-while the corrupt political system is destroying what is left, of what once made our country great. It's been going on for alot longer than 3 1/2 years too.

          #1.20 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:17 AM EDT

          Clarifications for the uninformed:

          LB-34... The federal government is not running healthcare, they are paying for it. We do not have a public option, therefore we don't have government "running" healthcare, just mandating everyone pay for it.

          Meanoldbastid: It is a tax, get over it. They just couldn't tell people that because most Americans aren't smart enough to realize it actually helps reduce cost to the tax payers already paying out the a$$ for people who have no healthcare. Ever wonder why health insurance gets more expensive every year, and state's can no longer afford to bank roll health care costs?

          The health insurance industry is a for profit industry nearly identical to the for-profit education industry. Approximately 30% of the cost you pay going towards "administrative cost"...i.e. paper shuffling done by unqualified people. The reality is that 30% is a nice way to cover some legit admin costs, but pad the profit margin in the mean time. That's why they like to deny and delay payments as often as possible.

            #1.21 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:38 AM EDT

            MEANOLDBASTID,

            i read it also.

            it sure did like to boast on how it was going to try and cut cost.

            and it only wanted to cut cost by, literally, examining a persons everyday life, much like sheldon on the big bang theory.

            it says they want to know what Time and frequency you go to the BATHROOM in there in an effort to cut cost.

            WHAT THE HELL DOES THE TIME I CRAP HAVE TO DO WITH THE GOVT?!!

            how is that going to save health care money?

            they need to cut cost in a business manner, not a government manner.

            what time i crap is none of your business, but why am i getting charged $60 for 2 asprin?

            how about we figure THAT out!!!

            THATS HOW YOU SAVE MONEY!!

            • 1 vote
            #1.22 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:52 AM EDT

            ONEMANVOLT------- You expect your government to enforce the balance between social justice and greed!!!!

            The real problem and the thing that conservatives are responsible fo,r is that we didn't put a stop to you and the people like you in 1960, when the first modern day quasi socialist was elected to the white house..

            Now, it is quite likely that you and the people like you, will continue to take us to where the forlorn nanny states of Europe, are now.

            Eventually, of course, you will take us past that, to the place where a modern society is not viable and implode in on itself.

            The first ones affected and most heavily affected, will be the ones that expect the "government" to mediate and direct their life.

            The one thing that you can count on is that, once you have imploded the economy , we will not ever allow it to happen again, we will be ruthless about that.

            5000 years history has watched the "free lunch" crowd, as they tried to form quasi socialist/socialist/communistic governments.

            5000 years history has watched as they took them down the path to disaster.

            Still, every time an Obama comes trolling down the lane, tootling on his horn pipe, they run for the bandwagon.

            • 1 vote
            #1.23 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:18 AM EDT

            It is not about getting a "free lunch" Mr Kipyard-or free anything for me and my family. It is about getting insurance companies out of the doctors decisions. Right now insurance companies dictate to the doctors what they will and will not cover. Than the doctor is stuck following their guidelines. Insurance companies only cover about 40% of cancers, I was told by someone who sells insurance. My neighbor lost her credit rating because her insurance company refused to buy her medicine. She could not get her air conditioning fixed in GA because she maxed out her credit cards trying to take care of her self. And if her body temperature rose with the heat, she would only get more sick. Government has a moral quality to protect its citizens that private corporations do not. Such as a US Embassy will step in in a foreign country to protect/alert our citizens. I had to call the federal labor department last month because a corporate pin-head decided he could refuse pay for hours worked. And they were very helpful!, thank goodness.Removing insurance companies from the relationship between the doctor and and the patient is actually a moral decision, I believe. Politicians won't be deciding your treatments, Mr Kipyard. (who comes up with this nonsense anyway?) As for taxes, we pay a higher percentage than does Romney, and other morally bankrupt CEO's and corporations whose patriotism is questionable. FOX news misinformation really is bad for America.....

              #1.24 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:31 PM EDT

              Katherine M.

              It is not about getting a "free lunch" Mr Kipyard-or free anything for me and my family. It is about getting insurance companies out of the doctors decisions. Right now insurance companies dictate to the doctors what they will and will not cover. Than the doctor is stuck following their guidelines.

              Are you really that obtuse? Insurance companies do dicate to doctors what they will and will not cover, as does the government. Check the Medicare and Medicaid guidelines. The difference is that insurance companies will cover anything their customers will pay for. The government won't. There is a reason why Congress exempts itself from the rules.

                #1.25 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:16 PM EDT

                The Plain Writing Act ??!!

                Wow! The irony of legislation, written in plain language, defining how to write in plain language has got to be up there with written signs saying "Learn to Read!", or that old VietNam war matra about destroying a village in order to save it.

                • 1 vote
                #1.26 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:34 PM EDT
                Reply

                As a former VA employee and current USDA employee, the grades are no surprise. VA is the WORST Federal agency there is.

                • 6 votes
                Reply#2 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:00 PM EDT

                Inablilty to govern. Critical times hard to deal with, will be here.

                  Reply#3 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:17 PM EDT

                  What is incentive for compliance? I doubt that any high graded management, political appointees or such will suffer any consequences for non-action.

                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#4 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:24 PM EDT

                  Would you rather no one try to to push this in the right direction, or give some clarity to a problem we all recognize, but have no way of evaluating?

                    #4.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:41 AM EDT
                    Reply

                    I think Annette L. Cheek needs to go back and learn how to make straight letters and how to write better.

                      Reply#5 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:32 PM EDT

                      I think you need to recognize sarcasm when you see it, these marks are made so they can be understood by the people in these offices that obviously can not understand what was a most basic directive given to them.-- DON"T TALK OVER PEOPLE"S HEADS!!! They didn't understand that.

                      • 2 votes
                      #5.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:04 PM EDT
                      Reply

                      The CEO is Obama. What would you expect?

                      • 5 votes
                      Reply#6 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:29 PM EDT

                      Obama's fault Jamie? Any ONE man's fault Jamie? we can't blur out history and standing global patterns, Jamie. i'm learning how to blur in photoshop, though. the tutorial guy really likes that feature. be well.

                      • 4 votes
                      #6.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:17 PM EDT

                      What a stupid comment.

                      • 1 vote
                      #6.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:27 AM EDT

                      Jamie I don't think you could pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel. Go troll on Fox's website....with all of the other bottom feeders.

                      • 2 votes
                      #6.3 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:44 AM EDT

                      BEACHhole--------- Obama is the CEO of the US government, who do you think should be responsible?

                      • 1 vote
                      #6.4 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:21 AM EDT
                      Reply

                      How many Government agencies don't want the general public, or anybody outside of themselves, for that matter, to be able to understand their internal correspondence, records, or regulations? The fewer people who can understand them, the fewer people who can interfere with their activity - or lack of it. The trouble is that the VA, for example, doesn't have enough people to do its job now, let alone re-write all its regulations and forms.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#7 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:49 PM EDT

                      Oh they have enough people. Enough People to screw the vet that won them the freedom to screw people. If things were written so that normal folks could understand them, vets might actually get the things that they deserve, instead of the regulation writer pocketing the money instead.

                      • 8 votes
                      #7.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:15 PM EDT

                      The VA hospital in Portland, Oregon and the staff at its field offices are terrific at representing vets and our needs. Don't consider moving here, though unless your hobby is challenging authority. Oregonians are the most independent people in the nation and actually get along politically - sort of. At least they are civil to each other.

                      • 2 votes
                      #7.2 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:37 PM EDT

                      Scrap the VA and write every vet a fat check in the form of a lifetime credit to be used at any hospital or medical facility of their choosing, for any procedure they and their doctor deem reasonable. No questions asked! God bless the sacrifices you guys make all over the world and right here in your own backyard when you get home!

                      • 1 vote
                      #7.3 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:52 AM EDT
                      Reply

                      The military never understands that they have take orders until some loose their heads.

                        Reply#8 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:50 PM EDT

                        See, if the government makes a law for themselves, it's only for show. If they don't do it, so what? If we, the citizens, don't follow the convoluted law written, watch out! They will come after us.

                        • 6 votes
                        Reply#9 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:04 PM EDT

                        yes sir, indeed... truth

                        • 1 vote
                        #9.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:14 PM EDT
                        Reply

                        This sh*# hurts my head. Yeah right, getting the goverment to comply. The "spirit of the law" what a crock. Can you just imagine the people who work there getting into the spirit of the law.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#10 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:16 PM EDT

                        the spirit of the wrath of satan's anus is more like what goes on in the government caverns of DC

                          #10.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:18 PM EDT
                          Reply

                          now we need to rate them on common sense, effectiveness, value and integrity.

                          fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

                          • 3 votes
                          Reply#11 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:17 PM EDT

                          Common sense- A. They have great common sense. They know how to take care of themselves fantastically. It is basic instinct to them.

                          Effectiveness-A. They are very effective at and screwing the vet.

                          Value and Integrity-A. They HIGHLY value the dollars that they are screwing the vets out of. They have great integrity at setting new records for the amounts they are screwing out of our service people.

                            #11.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:30 PM EDT

                            keith, The first three seem feasible...but integrity? Really? I don't think it's in their lexicon. LOL

                              #11.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:58 AM EDT
                              Reply

                              When completing a job application years ago, there was a space to indicate fluency in foreign languages. I entered 'U.S. Army'. I got the job.

                              • 3 votes
                              Reply#12 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:22 PM EDT

                              LOL Grrrrrrrrrrreat!

                              • 1 vote
                              #12.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:43 AM EDT
                              Reply

                              I did not see any mention of the IRS , I assume they or exempt

                              • 4 votes
                              Reply#13 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:24 PM EDT

                              I worked for a state regulatory agency for almost 30 years. After every legislative session we would get a raft of new laws that required new rules to be written. We would put together teams from each department to interpret those laws. Our state legislature (and I'm sure most other state legislatures as well as Congress) needs to learn to write LAWS in plain language.

                              Anyway, we would then develop the new rules (or amend some old ones). The good news was that we were lucky enough to have engineers in the top positions. The legal staff would get to bless/not bless the rules but they couldn't really change the wording. Bottom line, our rules were written in plain language that anyone could understand.

                              Shortly after I started work there I asked one of the older engineers why they (the engineers) were always at odds with the lawyers. He replied that engineers see the world as black and white while lawyers see the world in shades of gray. This always seems to show up when comparing the documents prepared by someone in those groups.

                              When it comes to writing laws, the best thing to do is first remove the lawyers from the process.

                              • 4 votes
                              Reply#14 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:38 PM EDT

                              Shakespeare, Richard III "...first we kill all the lawyers." LOL

                              • 1 vote
                              #14.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:43 AM EDT

                              dsb , engineers see things differently than lawyers, because their jobs are completely unrelated. Engineers have a much simpler job. They deal with things, and numbers. Lawyers have a much more complicated job. They deal with laws. Politicians have the hardest job of all. They try to represent many different, and often opposing people, and view points. There are good politicians, bad politicians, and indifferent politicians (just like every occupation). But every one of them have the hardest job there is! To take a simple example (like what every politician faces, every day): Suppose a group of voters wants a bridge built at a certain place, and another group is sure the bridge should not be built, or not built there (and a dozen other groups have other positions on the bridge issue, and every one of the groups is certain that their view is the only one that is honest, patriotic, and makes sense), how is the politician supposed to represent all the dozen, or more, views?? And, that's a simple problem. THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT ANSWER TO ANY SOCIAL QUESTION, in a democracy!! No matter what solution is taken, most of the people are going to think its wrong!! And, in the current stuation, complicated issues, result in complicated laws and regs. Simple as that.

                                #14.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:06 AM EDT
                                Reply

                                The FAA used to have a list of 'disqualifying events' when taking a flight test. One of them was "involuntary contact with the ground or items associated with or connected to same'.

                                So if you crash, you fail. But so what, you're probably dead anyway.

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#15 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:39 PM EDT

                                I suspect "hard landing" applied, too.

                                • 1 vote
                                #15.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:41 AM EDT

                                Yes, as opposed to flying in hard IFR and accidentally flying into 'cumulo-granite.

                                • 1 vote
                                #15.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:32 AM EDT
                                Reply

                                Veterans Affairs gets an F. That is the Number 1 area that should be very clear and dependable. What does that say about us as a society? Disgusting!

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#16 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:44 PM EDT

                                I have heard from former soldiers that the military is not very clear or succinct to begin with anyway.

                                • 1 vote
                                #16.1 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:46 PM EDT

                                Morlack, only with the paper work. The orders being screamed in your ear are quite clear and concise. LOL

                                • 2 votes
                                #16.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:32 AM EDT
                                Reply

                                Gobbledygook is one of my favorite words! :)

                                  Reply#17 - Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:46 PM EDT

                                  VA gets the wurst grade: thanks for your service(sarc)

                                    Reply#18 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:02 AM EDT

                                    Anyone notice that the IRS isn't even on the list.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#19 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:04 AM EDT

                                    Not 'til you mentioned it...damn good point! :)

                                      #19.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:33 AM EDT
                                      Reply

                                      The gov has no interest in clear language, the weasel words and gobbledygook is what shelters them from accountability. Actual clear language would pin them down on any issue, they prefer a moveable basket, sometimes even after the shot attempt. Even a word as simple as "is" can create a mad scramble for the dictionary with government loons.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#20 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:28 AM EDT

                                      Veterans Affairs...F&F?! Wow, it's worse than I've heard. As a Viet Nam vet, I'm sure glad I don't need their help. And I feel bad for my brothers in arms who do. C'mon VA, strive for at least a B+

                                      • 1 vote
                                      Reply#21 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:31 AM EDT

                                      It's only been 9 months for crying out loud! You expect them to get it done when, the day after the passes?

                                        Reply#22 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:47 AM EDT

                                        Gee Ed, one day is a far piece from 270+ days, In private industry you seldom have more than one fiscal quarter to get anything done...or else.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #22.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:52 AM EDT
                                        Reply

                                        The final gobbledygook will be when Obama thankfully leaves office.

                                          Reply#23 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:54 AM EDT

                                          oh JA your bad, this is mostly a non-agenda discussion and you just had to be an azzhole, didn't you?

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #23.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:00 AM EDT

                                          People like JA are only going to get more butthurt in the next few months as we watch Mittens's bid implode. There is a reason Gov Christie didn't run.

                                            #23.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:09 AM EDT
                                            Reply

                                            Pursuant to the aforesaid interlocutory events, herewith (viz.) pertinent agents, id est, he who has provided the above nomenclature, does, prima facie, concur, cf. to wit: "Yeah."

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#24 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:59 AM EDT

                                            Sounds like a brilliant idea that's long overdue. Now if only it could be enforced against corporations as well as government agencies, so that there wouldn't be long, aimless lists of "codes of conduct" and "vision statements" and "ethical guidelines" and "company bylaws", all of which absolutely nobody reads or understands because they are written to bloviate like a fillibustering representative.

                                            (To be clear I'm anything but opposed to the idea that companies should have such things; what I have a problem with is the logic that says anything not spelled out in excruciating technical detail cannot be enforced. Common-sense guidelines shouldn't be optional, nor should they be possible to overrule with Legalese.)

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#25 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:02 AM EDT

                                            With out dress codes, you will find yourself defending yourself in court, because you wouldn't allow some woman to wear a Burga to work.

                                              #25.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:27 AM EDT
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