seems like he wanted to be famous for a little while like all the past nutcases like the balloon boy hoax in 2009, which ironically also happened in colorado. cops should just kill red-handed murderers on the spot. NOW, the taxpayers are going to end up funding this guy's lavish cable tv, yard time, along with other cell privileges in prison. if he pleads insanity, he gets to live in an insane asylum, again funded by taxpayers, and avoid prison. looks like the joke is on the american justice system/public.

James Holmes, I hope you get the death penalty. If there was ever some body deserving of it, it's you.

To bad he didn't blow his brains out.

"Politically motivated????" No, why would he attack a mix of people if it was political would he target "the other party"

Quite troll-like to politicize this tragedy.

Perhaps there will be some accountability from Hollywood and their chronic creation of and feeding gratuitous violence?

Calling all mothers who have a gut feeling about their children! For the sake of a 3 month old shooting victim, please notify authorities if you have a child that you suspect could commit such heinous violence against innocent people.

I was wondering the exact same thing. Not that it's in anyway their fault but shouldn't they be home. In bed.

This is insane. We're seeing more or these random mass killings than at any time in our history...something is very, very wrong.

I agree it's insane, but we are actually having less violent crime in the US today than in the past. We just hear about it more.

There needs to be some expediency built into our so-called justice system for killers like these in the sense that we cut all the bull@!$%# away and put them to death quickly without years spent on death row or, in his case, possibly just get life imprisonment at taxpayer expense. He's a suspect- yeah, I get it. He must be tried & found guilty yada yada. Fine, then take him out to the local hanging tree and get it done. If one of the deceased was your loved one would you care to have him amongst the living and pay for his meals & housing through your tax dollars? After what he did? I think not.

Sandtrich,

What's your solution? I suppose you would love to see firearms banned?

Another case of home grown terrorism! Ridiculous.

Do we really need to go through the judicial process to deal with this person?

There is a system - just not fool proof, 100% of the time. No one can protect people from nut cases like this guy. Cannot let fear define you and paralyze you.

Do we really need to go through the judicial process to deal with this person?

Short answer; yes, we do. Once you begin making "exceptions" where do you draw the line? Othewise why even bother with a judicial system?

There is a system - just not fool proof, 100% of the time. No one can protect people from nut cases like this guy. Cannot let fear define you and paralyze you.

Bob fu:

The solution you might like would be to have everyone in the audience have guns to defend themselves.........problem solved............maybe or maybe not?

How are you going to fight gun owners protected by the 2nd amendment? I think you might just be a little bit disappointed with the outcome of that scuffle.

10 years??? Janine are you feeling ok? Isn't 10 years a little light for MASS MURDER??

OBXRon,

Your solution is to disarm legal, law abiding citizens, so nutjobs like this and all other violent criminals, who will obtain their firearms illegally, are the only ones armed? Makes perfect sense. What about people that go around stabbing innocent people in nightclubs etc? Do you want to ban knives too?

We all need to pray for the families that have experienced the loss of a loved one. Remember that guns do not kill people it's the one who holds the gun in their hand that does the killing.

More gun laws are not the answer, look at Chicago, DC and California some of the strictest gun laws in the country and yet the most gun violence in the country. Most caused by people who are illegally carrying guns against the law, laws that have not stopped any of the violence.

What is wrong with you @!$%#s making political comments about this. This tragedy has nothing to do with politics or gun ownership rights, it is the actions of one sick individual. Those making jokes and political comments should be ashamed of themselves. I am sure if one of their friends or love ones were among those injured or killed they would not be cracking jokes about this incident. My heart goes out to the friends and families of all of those who were injured or killed. I hope those who were injured make quick and complete recoveries from their injuries and those who lost loved ones in this tragedy can get the help they need to deal with their loss. I just wish that the cops had just shot the perpetrator on sight instead of arresting him. Now all of the victims and their friends and families will have to endure a trial and the inevitable attempts by some slick defense lawyer to get the guy off on some insanity plea. This guy deserves to be put to death and have it done quickly, not after a decade or more of appeals.

there is a common thread running through all these mass shootings; Kids who have grown up playing video games of death and destruction, a disconnect with reality occurs, they then go out and act out their hostility on real people; lets wait to see the background profile on this nut case, i will bet we see a profile of a severe disorder, of a outcast .

"This is insane. We're seeing more or these random mass killings than at any time in our history...something is very, very wrong."

We live in a very divided and connected time. Half the people do not want to help themselves and the other half only want to help themselves and no one else or even worse at the expense of others. Anything bad happens it is all over the news, tv, cellphones and internet and people always want to one up the next guy. If you read MSNBC everyday you would be under the impression that we are doomed and that is enough to make some people crack.

Robbob 1.38, that's absolutely true! Chicago has one of the strongest anti gun laws in the country and also the higheset murder rate. Law abiding citizens are being gunned down by criminals who are very aware that their victims are defenseless!

Young people today are all a little crazy and very disappointing. I am a baby boomer and helped make this country what it is today. But the young people want to destroy this country. They will probably be successful.
As you say, zkysr, we live in a divided country full of welfare recipients. We weren't as divided before Bush and Obama.

Do we really need to go through the judicial process to deal with this person?

YES, we do. I'm no bleeding-heart but there's a reason why we have the judicial system. The moment we start violating the constitution for those who are guilty, it'll open the door for violating the rights of those who might be guilty, followed by the violation of rights of those who are not guilty at all. Where do you draw the line? Like it or not, the best solution is to follow the U.S. Constitution as intended. I'd rather spend the time and money to prosecute someone who's guilty as hell, than to enact vigilante justice and risk imprisoning or executing an innocent person. But that's just me.

If everybody in the audience had guns or if the gunman new that was the possibility shooting like this would not happen. As of now only scum bags and bad guys have illegal guns and use them on innocent people. If we had more guns in the trained hands of innocent people the scum bags and bag guys that have illegal guns not legal guns would be thinking twice before they attack innocent people like this.

Everybody wants to blame the NRA and gun owners when something like this and that is competely ridiculous. The chances that this guy actually leagally owned these guns and had proper training to use them is unlikely. Most likely they are stollen guns and he just posssed them with no fear becuase he knows that nobody in a crowded moovie theatre will have any guns to shoot back. I say train everybody that is capable and proves to be responsible to own and handle a gun, then start arming these people all over the country and all of a sudden these situations will stop happening.

I agree with Saxon. Today's youth are brought up in a world of violent - and sexual - messages via video games, tv, movies, music. Add to that the availability of semi-automatic weapons. Go figure.

It seems in America that gun owners - specifically - have the freedom to take away others freedom. It's time to end that.

The only freedom a law abiding gun owner is taking away is the freedom of criminals to do whatever they please to whomever they please.

"Young people today are all a little crazy and very disappointing. I am a baby boomer and helped make this country what it is today. But the young people want to destroy this country. They will probably be successful.
As you say, zkysr, we live in a divided country full of welfare recipients. We weren't as divided before Bush and Obama."

Don't put words in my mouth. We should all be asking ourselves what are we doing to help others. Our problems are what they are because people are only thinking of themselves.

If everybody in the audience had guns or if the gunman new that was the possibility shooting like this would not happen. As of now only scum bags and bad guys have illegal guns and use them on innocent people. If we had more guns in the trained hands of innocent people the scum bags and bag guys that have illegal guns not legal guns would be thinking twice before they attack innocent people like this.

This is flawed logic, and I AM NOT anti-gun, by any means. This "logic" of everyone having guns, then no one will perpetrate gun violence makes absolutely no sense, what-so-ever. Anyone with military or police training will tell you that it takes a will to act, accordingly, in these situations. Packing heat, in of itself, will not deter a criminal mind.

Folks will blame this on the NRA, video games, violent movies, Hollywood (oh, please! duh), etc. Hogwash on all of that. It's the constant streaming of partisan bickering and the channeling of individuals into neat little corporate slots (see: No Child Left Behind) that's stressing the hell out of our citizens, especially our kids. This guy is a perfect example of a failed society where funding the prison system takes priority over education.

Not to mention the fact you are allowed to openly carry a weapon in Colorado without a permit, and in Denver all you have to do is pay a licensing fee for concealed carry. So nothing was preventing everyone in the theater from having a gun, except for the fact that most people don't want one, or want to use one.\

So not sure what the aptly named Guns wants to do about that.

JS in SD

This tragedy has nothing to do with politics or gun ownership rights, it is the actions of one sick individual.

No, it was the act of sick individuals at Columbine. Then Red Lake. Then Tucson. Fill in between the spaces with dozens and dozens of shootings, almost every single incident the action of "one sick individual" and we see a pattern. This is not a conspiracy of violence, but a conspiracy of ignorance.

Not sure what pedophilia has to do with homosexuality....

If Sandusky had been sleeping with Joe Pa, that'd be a completely different story.

@argue, please feel free to support your claims of gun owners taking away criminals rights and I'll tell you a story about a 2 1/2 year old who shot himself in the face with a 9mm the other day. Stop protecting the rights of criminals to get guns and you won't need them in your dresser!

Rick's Real,

"How come we don't have more of you good, law-abiding citizens showing up to protect us with all of your Goddamned guns?"

That is what law enforcement is paid to do.

My choice to own a weapon isn't to protect you. It is to protect me and my family. I also target shoot, hunt and am former military. I believe I've not only earned the right to wave the flag, I am guaranteed that right.

How come we don't have more of you good, law-abiding citizens showing up to protect us with all of your Goddamned guns?

You heard it here folks! If Rick is ever begging for his life because a criminal is threatening to blow his head off, he would rather you just walk away than impinge on the freedom of the poor little criminal.

My choice to own a weapon isn't to protect you. It is to protect me and my family.

Thank your for explaining that so clearly, Bob.

there is a common thread running through all these mass shootings; Kids who have grown up playing video games of death and destruction, a disconnect with reality occurs, they then go out and act out their hostility on real people; lets wait to see the background profile on this nut case, i will bet we see a profile of a severe disorder, of a outcast .

I was waiting for this ignorant argument to be brought up during this horrific event. Instead of blaming the individual who shot up a movie threater, lets blame entertainment, more specifically video games. I'm 35 years old and still play video games. I have since I was seven. And in all those years, I don't recall ever dressing in a bulletproof vest, walking into a crowed theater, throwing tear gas, and gunning down innocent people. Hell, I've never even done something a small as punch someone. But, since I play video games, I must be a gun toting, isolated, outcast, ready to snap and kill any and everyone I see at the drop of a hat. Why don't we bring back a classic scapegoat? This was a Batman movie, right? Let's just blame Comic Books, too.

Young people today are all a little crazy and very disappointing. I am a baby boomer and helped make this country what it is today. But the young people want to destroy this country. They will probably be successful.

I'm part of Generation X. Guess what my parent are? Baby Boomers. So who birthed, raised, taught and nurtured the young people who "want to destroy this county"?

To those of us who actually listened to Rush when he poked fun at the new Batman movie, we knew that it was done tongue-in-cheek, this is his schtick!

I don't disagree, but not everyone listening hears the same thing and that particular rant was most likely heard by most people second hand. We're talking about someone with serious mental issues.

Something triggered this particular target instead of another. This guy would probably have snapped at some point anyway, but something made him do it there and then. Was this a the case of shouting fire in a crowded theater that went beyond free speech? Not to the vast majority of sane people out there, but to a nutcase looking for a signal, maybe.

Rush's schtick sometimes has repercussions beyond his targeted audience. He's certainly not the only entertainer or public personality from any political or social stripe that has contributed what could be that tiny spark that is all it takes to spur a nutcase into action.

Well, looks like my last comment went over like a lead balloon! Kinda figured that would go that way...

On other subjects - this is just so NOT a political thing - this is a sociological / psychological / criminal thing, but not a political thing.

This old debate about gun control is OLD. The constitution clearly says the citizens have the right to bear arms. End of story. Period. They wrote that in for a very specific reason. The monarchy of England was seen as tyrannical, and our founding fathers had bad memories of the king's soldiers being the only ones with the authority to be armed, and they abused that power in the most vicious ways. Our forefathers wanted to make sure that this didnt happen, that the government remained fearful of the people, to protect against a tyrannical govt. Its just that simple.

And it remains a valid point.

These mass murderers - they will find other ways even if they didn't have access to weapons. One of the worst mass murder incidents in the history of this country was undertaken by a disgruntled School Board member. He blew up a school - in session at the time. No firearms were used, but killed 45 (38 were children) and wounded 58 others. Look up the Bath School Disaster.

I reiterate: No firearms are necessary to perpetrate these atrocities. People intent on inflicting mass murder will find other ways, and arguably, explosives are far more deadly.

Another thing - we love to call mass-slaughter by explosives, acts of terrorism. Wikipedia is now referring to the Bath school disaster as a terrorism event. This word - terrorism - has become very "loaded" and way overused since 9/11, and THAT is a political ploy. Any act of violence is a form of terror. I have no doubt being on the receiving end of violence is terrifying regardless of its source or severity. So lets back up the train on the terrorism terminology and reserve it for how it was originally used. The killing of civilians within a state of warfare between two or more factions, the intent of which is to put fear in the population to weaken a warring country's resolve. THIS is the original meaning of terrorism. To expand it beyond that, is a governmental ploy to intimidate it's own citizens.

Yea! if everyone already HAS guns--then why don't you see them "protecting" others (and please don't tell me about that 73 yr old guy in the internet cafe). Guns guns guns guns guns ...

How come we don't have more of you good, law-abiding citizens showing up to protect us with all of your Goddamned guns? Because it's a funny thing... this scene just keeps happening over and over and over...

Funny you seem to ignore news that does not support your views.

Sorry WHAT, but you cant hide the truth by denying it....Just the other day:

A 71-years-young, Shawn Williams recently threw himself in a tough position. As two men attempted to rob the Palms Internet cafe he was in, he pulled out his gun and fired at the pair, hitting them, non-lethally, and successfully stopping the robbery! Patrick Jones walks us through the amazing footage from the Marion County Sheriff's Office in Ocala, Florida.

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl.prefer/search/web?q=71+year+old+prevents+robgbery+gun

Not only did he stop the criminals, he didnt even have to kill them! This stuff happens ALL THE TIME!

I don't understand why the police thinks he acted alone. I have never been to a theater where the exit doors can be entered into from the outside. The report said he entered through the exit doors.

Sometimes something simple like keeping exit doors locked from the outside would be the best protection.

What a horrible and sad incident. I feel for the families of the victims. And I wish people on here could just do the same instead of arguing. For once just feel what the pain must be like instead of feeling the need to politicize everything. I'm going to check and see if there are any donation sites, these people do not need to be financially worried at a time like this.

caringman, I think just about all of us agree this is a horrible and sad incident. But for us all to sit here on the ground rending our garments, wailing and moaning and covering our faces in ashes does nothing at all for the victims or their families. All the emotion necessary will be expressed in the funerals of the victims, and their families will have ample opportunity to grieve. Those of us with some distance from the tragedy have the ability to discuss the situation. Arguing, debating, discussing. What have you. This is just another way of processing what happened. And it has as much importance for those of us with distance from this as well as all other acts of violence, as does the very emotional and immediate grief for the family and friends of the ones involved in the event.

People do know what the pain of losing a loved one is like. Most of us have suffered that, and many of us have lost people quickly, violently. There is no need to live through this experience for every other life snuffed out violently. If so, none of us could ever function on any level, because death stalks us daily in millions of forms. For those of us with some distance, emotionally, from the event, we can immediately ask the questions that arise from the rational experience, rather than the emotional experience. The same questions that may eventually also haunt the people that this has directly affected, once the immediate and crippling grief subsides...

"If everybody in the audience had guns or if the gunman new that was the possibility shooting like this would not happen."

Oh, please. Fifty panicked people firing weapons in a darkened, crowded theater would have resulted in more casualties than the shooter himself inflicted. Grow up. More guns are not the answer to gun violence.

...and the horse you rode in on.

Calling all mothers who have a gut feeling about their children! For the sake of a 3 month old shooting victim, please notify authorities if you have a child that you suspect could commit such heinous violence against innocent people.

I wish people would do that, but most won't, most think their children are good kids even when they are not, its always someone else's fault if their kid did something bad. Here's a perfect example of that:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-prosecutors-62yearolds-death-just-a-game-for-3-teens-20120716,0,2892757.story

sandtrich

Guns, guns, guns. Let's see the NRA put a smiley face on this tragedy.

What does this have to do with the NRA? With anti-guns laws only criminals will have guns, honest citizens will be left defenseless, as they were in this case. Anti-gun laws never stopped criminals from acquiring guns.

Sad to read stuff happening like this.

How did he enter a movie theater from an "exit door"? They are lock if outside the door..someone I believe helped him get in.

If you outlaw guns, only criminals will have guns. Gun laws do NOT work (look at Chicago, strictest in the country) What we need is to prosecute people that use the guns, instead of slapping them on the hand and turning them loose. If you gave the death penalty with no possible escape of death, that alone would stop gun use during crimes. But you stinking libs would whale and moan about it all being unfair.... Frankly, they should have shot the suspect right there and then, and for about .50 cents, the whole case would be over except for the tragedy of the victims.... Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

WTF ! Why do you idiots have to turn everything into an opportunity to spout political ideology? this is a tragedy, have some respect for those who were injured and killed!

Gun restriction do not stop crime. TRUE

Criminals do not use guns purchased legally. TRUE

Higher level of crimes are in States with tougher gun control. TRUE

My prayers for the soul of the victims and the relatives who are suffering for the lost of their love ones.

Hung-up This bastard.

How about tightening the existing gun control laws on gun shows? A nutjob like this should not be able to get a gun, without having to take that right away from those that can own them. No saying ban guns, but make them harder to get than a cell phone!

He's a nut case who didn't get the recognition he thought he deserved. We will know soon enough about his disfunctions. Yes we need to go through the process and everybody knows it and no, the mom was not at fault for what happened to her child. Having everyone walking around with guns is not an answere either. There was a senior couple in my neighborhood who owned a coin store. One day they were robbed and as the robber left the old man pulled a gun and shot the robber. They exchanged gun fire and the proprieter and his wife were all shot up and the pepetrater died. Killing him wasn't worth it. I think the old man survived but I never heard anything about the wife. Lucky that no one driving by ( including me) was shot.

Michael said:

The moment we start violating the constitution for those who are guilty, it'll open the door for violating the rights of those who might be guilty, followed by the violation of rights of those who are not guilty at all.

The Constitution says no person shall be deprived of of life, liberty, or property without due process. Yet at the moment, we have persons detained at Guantanamo Bay who were suspected of terrorism, investigated and found innocent, have been cleared of all charges, and yet have not been released. Though they have been found innocent, they are not allowed in the US, and many can't go home because their home countries won't let them back.

Then the NDAA for FY2012 was signed into law on Dec 31 allowing those suspected of terrorism/terror acts to be indefinitely detained without charges or a trial until the current hostilities (i.e the War On Terror) is over. The original wording of the clause (written by John McCain and Joe Lieberman) stated that anyone was subject to this mandatory detention, but President Obama refused to sign it until it as amended to read mandatory detention for non-us citizens only; discretionary detention for US citizens (but no info on who would make that 'discretionary' decision)

Now currently coming up through Congress is something called the Enemy Expatriation Act, which will allow the government to strip citizenship from someone suspected of terrorism/terror acts (no trial necessary to prove suspicion.) Once citizenship is stripped from them, if they are an immigrant, they will be deported to their country of origin; if a natural born US citizen, they will be indefinitely held as an 'illegal terrorist' under the terms of the NDAA for FY2012 until the War On Terror is over.

And then when you see that Homeland Security now considers alternative media, animal rights activists, people who stockpile food, people who print literature advocating action against the US's interests or any of her allies, and certain religious sects, like the Christian Identity movement, the Black Panthers, and Odinists (seriously, when was the last time someone shot up anything or blew up anything up 'In the Name of the AllFather Odin?)--as terrorists.

I have sent monetary donations to support the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, (they have a show called Whale Wars in Discovery Channel) who attack Japanese fishing vessels slaughtering whales in defiance of a UN ban on whaling, and Japan has declared the Sea Shepherds terrorists, so my donation would constitute 'supporting terrorists engaged in activity that runs counter to a US ally's interests.' I could them be jailed indefinitely under the NDAA for FY2012 if the EEA passes.

Another example; incarceration of 'illegals.' There are people out there who hopped the border, deal drugs, and shot a cop--and then you have people like me, adopted internationally as a child, never told before my parents passed away in a car accident, then when Immigration lost my adoption paper and came to me for a copy that I didn't have and never knew I had, they declared me 'illegal' and detained me in a deportation camp for three years. I had a legally-issued BC, an SS card, and a brand new DL (I'd just turned 18). It took me three years of writing to every courthouse in three states before I found it and was released.

I was not 'illegal' ; I came here legally, was legally adopted, it wasn't illegal for my parents to not have told me I was adopted before they died, it wasn't illegal for me not to have a copy of the paper, and it was a government mistake that resulted in a paper being lost, so why did I lose three years of my life, why was I treated the same as someone who did do something wrong when the government admitted it was their fault and I was clearly innocent?

So when you say violating rights for those ho are CLEARLY guilty will lead to violating rights of those who are only suspected, then to those not guilty at all, you're absolutely right.

Kids who have grown up playing video games of death and destruction, a disconnect with reality occurs, they then go out and act out their hostility on real people; lets wait to see the background profile on this nut case, i will bet we see a profile of a severe disorder, of a outcast .

It never ceases to amaze me that it's okay to blame video games, but not a blowhard radio pundit that whips up his audience into a frenzy against others on a daily basis. Go figure.

My condolences to the families who lost a loved ones. May the injured heal quickly.

Murderers come in all flavors, even children, and this has been happening for a very long time. Some people are just broken and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

People who blame this on video games and Hollywood explain this to me; Video games have been around for about 40 years, Hollywood about 100. There are child murderers from before video games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Young
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney

and it was happening BEFORE Hollywood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Pomeroy

What is your explanation for those acts?

@...and the horse you rode in on.

unfortunately, you can call, and call, and call and call some more. the police here (Colorado) will tell you there is nothing they can do until the person takes ACTION. trust me, i've tried with my own son. every time i hear one of these stories in Colorado - my immediate thought is that it was him. my heart goes out to the mother of the shooter as well as all the victims, their families and friends.

Sailcat-2064101

"If everybody in the audience had guns or if the gunman new that was the possibility shooting like this would not happen."

Oh, please. Fifty panicked people firing weapons in a darkened, crowded theater would have resulted in more casualties than the shooter himself inflicted. Grow up. More guns are not the answer to gun violence.

Thankfully it doesn't actually happen that way, what you are describing is either a mafia gang shooting, or a gun fight in the good ole "western" days.

If people who legally carry a concealed weapon acted the way you describe, this would happen all the time, as robberies and shootings unfortunately happen quite often, including in the States where it is legal to carry a concealed weapon. I have yet to hear of 50 armed civilians panicking and shooting as described in your scenario.

If you prefer to be a sitting-duck with no way of defending yourself against a shooter it is your choice, personally I would prefer if there is a few armed and honest citizens who can take a nutjob like this guy down.

Most of the kids in my previous post are YOUNGER than the perpetrator of this act for a reason.. ANY young person is capable as well as ANY adult..

Years ago, like 20, when I lived in Texas it seemed everyone had a gun in the car, or even purse, at night. I wound up getting a gun as well, permit and taught to shoot. I kept it in my glove compartment though the law said at that time I could leave it on the front seat in full view. After a while, I decided it made me uncomfortable to cart it around and left it at home in the nightstand. If someone broke in, I'd shoot them in a heartbeat. Now, I am wondering about the wisdom of registering this gun where I live now, getting a concealed weapons permit, and keeping it with me. It makes me sad I am even considering that, but I heard a line in a movie a while ago that keeps going through my mind: "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

To all gun haters. Hang a sign ON YOUR DOOR that reads "GUN FREE ZONE. NO GUNS ALLOWED". Just how fast do you think YOU will be a victim?? Tonight probably!

"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception.

Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through

persuasion.Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction and the

only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing

with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal

footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats.

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force

equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily

employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

So, the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced

"Thankfully it doesn't actually happen that way, what you are describing is either a mafia gang shooting, or a gun fight in the good ole "western" days."

The entire notion that a concealed weapon would prevent shootings like this one is preposterous on the face of it. A situation like this one would not be benefited by a crowd of people pulling out their weapons and firing blindly. The reason why there aren't more wild west-type shootouts in situations like this one can be attributed directly to the fact that most people do not have a license to carry a concealed weapon nor should they. The point is, gun violence cannot be remedied by more guns.

The university website listed one of his courses as the Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders.

They need to start doing background, personality, and mental fitness reviews of those individuals enrolling in these classes. It's pretty common for someone with a mental disorder to go to college and study psychology.

In regards to the comments about the Batman movie. I saw the movie last night. The character Bane and his followers represent the OWS movement and the Obama crowd. Blame and kill the rich. I was actually surprised that a Hollywood movie like this went as far as it did in shining the light of truth on these idiots. Batman (Billionaire Bruce Wayne), Catwoman, and the police are the heroes who stop Bane and the OWSers and save Gotham. The movie was at best OK. The ending was laughable. I hope to God I never again see a movie where Michael Cain turns into a crying little pussy.

Please quit with the Rush blame. I have an intense dislike for Mr Limbaugh, but please. Really. Quit.

He did not call for any killings.

"This guy is a perfect example of a failed society where funding the prison system takes priority over education."

From what is coming out about him he seems very well educated and bright (maybe a little too bright)

I have feeling he has a manifesto written up some place that has yet to be found.

send your Thank You cards to Rush Limbaugh!

You guys really and truly believe this, don't you?

If it comes to light that Holmes didn't commit this monstrosity for political reasons, how many of you will come back to this thread and say "You know what? I was mistaken. My bad!"?

Or, if you say anything, will you just say Emily Litella-like "Never mind."?.

Also, Sven, I was going to see the movie in IMAX next week. Could you put a spoiler warning at the top next time?

Sailcat,

A situation like this one would not be benefited by a crowd of people pulling out their weapons and firing blindly.

It's amusing to me to watch people like you talk out their asses and make statements as if they were fact. Trust me son. Firing blindly is the last thing someone that trains with a firearm and carries a CW permit does. Why waste ammo?

Bob fu

Rick's Real,

"How come we don't have more of you good, law-abiding citizens showing up to protect us with all of your Goddamned guns?"

That is what law enforcement is paid to do.

My choice to own a weapon isn't to protect you. It is to protect me and my family. I also target shoot, hunt and am former military. I believe I've not only earned the right to wave the flag, I am guaranteed that right.

Yes, you have the right to wave that flag, and boy your kind do it like the zealots you have become. Yes, you are guaranteed the right to wave the flag, but do you know what right I have that is also guaranteed by the constitution?

Life.

I can take your flag, and you have the right to take it back. But when you take my life?

Therefore, I believe the rights of the people to live trumps your right to wave a red-white and blue flag, or a yellow flag, or a rainbow flag. It trumps your right to carry a gun, when you fail, over and over and over and over, to defend more Americans than the number who are killed every year.

"So, the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced"

LOL trouble is that would never happen. Someone always has to have a bigger faster RPM gun.

If someone with a ar15 fully auto walked up to you and pointed it at your head and said "go a head try and get that gun of yours" I bet you wouldn't budge. If you don't think you can't be forced just because you are armed you're a fool.

The REASON you dont see shootouts and people shooting in all directions blindly just MIGHT be because the people having guns "LEGALLY" knows better and have enough brain matter to realize the consequenses of such stupidity!! YA THINK??? Sorry, no ya dont!

"Firing blindly is the last thing someone that trains with a firearm and carries a CW permit does."

If you are suggesting that people thrown into a situation in which a shooter is killing people in a darkened, crowded theater would be calmly taking aim and firing, then you are being childish. There is no reason for people in the vast majority of cases to own and carry a concealed handgun, and this tragedy points to the reasons why that is true. Try not to make asinine comments in the future, okay?

Holy cow - the info on this character just came in on the story... A graduate medical student - "quiet and easy-going" and clearly intelligent. Not someone you would ever even think for a moment.. so far, not a sign of irrational personality, other than the mundane condition of being a quiet introvert (and although society would like to persuade us of the fact that introverts are ticking time bombs, this is just not the case - I give you Ted Bundy as one of many examples against this fact).

Glad they got this fellow alive. Truly important to study this one, and I sure do hope they do. How can one seem to be such an upstanding citizen yet be so very ill. Psychosis for sure.. but how he hid it so well is interesting. Perhaps he wasn't hiding it so well from those closer to him.

I don't think he planned on living through this. I personally think its a boon to psychology that he did. STUDY, Study, study this individual.... CT scans of his brain for sure.

"They need to start doing background, personality, and mental fitness reviews of those individuals enrolling in these classes."

So we should start restricting access to college psych classes but not firearms? If you had a scrap of shame in your body you would be deeply embarrassed to have made this childish statement.

Do you come to sites like this to advertise your immaturity or to celebrate it?

This is not a political issue. We truly will not know until everything is uncovered. That is part of our judical system. Appeals help prove innocent people told the truth about what they knew and keep them alive until the can.

Guns: proverb - If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

One of our radio stations here in Denver quoted a chinesse proverb, please think about it:

If the world wants peace, there must be peace within the nations. If the nations want peace, there must be peace within the cities. If the cities want peace, there must be peace within the homes. If the home wants peace, there must be peace within yourself.

"The REASON you dont see shootouts and people shooting in all directions blindly just MIGHT be because the people having guns "LEGALLY" knows better and have enough brain matter to realize the consequenses of such stupidity!! YA THINK???"

The fact that people like you either have a concealed weapons permit or would desperately like to have one puts the lie to your blithering ravings. Fail.

Sailcat you are obviously a young person who believes all of his thoughts and opinions to be fact. You've probably never fired a weapon. So you have no basis for your comments/opinion other than what you perceive to be reality. If you reread what you've posted you'll see what a pompous know it all child you appear to be. You've also probably never met someone that majored in psychology in college. A large majority of them have issues. That's why they take that major. To figure out what is wrong with themselves.

How come we don't have more of you good, law-abiding citizens showing up to protect us with all of your Goddamned gun

Rick 'not so' Real - I have a concealed carry permit and if I was in that theater when the bastard started shooting.... I certainly wouldn't have shot back! It was a crowded theater with tear gas going everywhere and a lot of panic.

One bad guy and dozens of innocents, if your shot misses the bad guy (who purportedly was wearing body armor) it would probably hit one of the innocents. And anyway a small handgun is no match for an automatic rifle in the hands of a crazed bastard!

Those of us who do have permits have been trained when to use them in our defense or others... and from what I understand the pandemonium in that theater was not a good environment to start more shooting.

ABC Pre-Ejac's trying to make a Tea Party connection and politicize the tragedy!

"An earlier ABC News broadcast report suggested that a Jim Holmes of a Colorado
Tea Party organization might be the suspect, but that report was incorrect. ABC
News and Brian Ross apologize for the mistake, and for disseminating that
information before it was properly vetted," the statement said.

Every time there is a tragedy like this, all the excuses in the world come out and the blame game starts up. Any old scapegoat will do. Hate conservatives? Why the shooter was a conservative. Hate Limbaugh? Why the shooter was made to do it because he listened to Limbaugh. Perhaps he was a liberal? These comments are pathetic and self-serving, they don't deserve any attention and they happen all too frequently whenever the commenter sees an opportunity to bash anything that doesn't fit their political ideologies.

This was a horrible act, a tragic act and no amount of second-guessing is ever going to explain what went on in the mind of an obviously deranged person. That the shooter was highly intelligent is not in question, you don't get to that level of education within that curriculum without having some modicum of intelligence. Ted Kazinsky, the Unabomber, is a genius with a seriously flawed ideology. His ideology was manifested in eco-terrorism using bombs as his weapon of choice.

This 'person' seems to be conversant with bomb making as well, the police are trying to figure out how to difuse the bombs and booby-traps he left in his apartment. Judging from the little that is currently known about the shooter, only a bit of conjecture on my part but it would seem that he very much fits the mold of the Unabomber model, perhaps his problem was with the concept of too many people on the planet. Then again, Charles Whitman killed many people from the tower at UT Austin, the little murderers at Columbine never really explained their need to kill, bottom line: as much as we would like a rational explanation for irrational behaviour, usually irrational behaviour is labeled as such because it IS irrational.

My Heart goes out to the Family's of the victims of this maniac.

I am pro gun but would like to point out that at the writing of the bill of rights the "arms" that they were speaking of were cumbersome single shot blackpowder rifles and possibly single shot pistols.

Is it really such an unreasonable thing to control access to multiple round assault style rifles and multi round pistols?

Had this been old school blackpowder weapons that the forefathers intended us to have the body count would have been far far smaller.

Had someone with a concealed weapons permit been in the audience that day the body count could have been far smaller as well.

Just something to think about.

@esohio209: Couldn't have put it better myself. Well said!

Also, as the earths population increases.. so will the number of nutjobs wanting their 15 min. of fame at the expense of literall all else.

His eyes remind of a quote from movie 'Josey Wales'. 'The one on the left, well he had crazy eyes'.

arguesforsport

How come we don't have more of you good, law-abiding citizens showing up to protect us with all of your Goddamned guns?

You heard it here folks! If Rick is ever begging for his life because a criminal is threatening to blow his head off, he would rather you just walk away than impinge on the freedom of the poor little criminal

Okay... then you show me the story of how a mass-murder like this one has been stopped recently by a gun-toting American good old cowboy who didn't "just walk away". Can you? Because if not, then the killers are winning this war.

It's fun to imagine a world where people who are packing are coming in and saving the day. But the truth of the matter is, it happens so quickly that people are dead before they even know they're being shot at!

Nobody pulled a gun and fired back... in Colorado? You have to bet there were more than a few concealed weapons in that theatre. But the only one to get shots off? The killer, once again.

This pattern plays out over and over again. And you know the constant here? A rising body count and ineffective gun laws.

Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results: what do we call that again?

Dirp,

"The time for removing the ability of anyone to control gun violence in this country ended long ago when the Supreme Court decided that the phrase "well regulated militia" had nothing to do with the right to keep and bear arms."

Read and understand this.

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."

-- Senator Richard Henry Lee, 1788, on "militia" in the 2nd Amendment

when you need the police THIS very minute, they are only minutes away. My 9mm will be there in seconds if need be. I have never had to and hope to NEVER pull a weapon on ANYONE!! BUT if I have to I will. EVEN to protect liberals who would bash me for it later.

Your welcome, in advance.

Is he an Occupy Wall Streeter?

This is a key reason why we need more people In this country conceal carrying Firearms!!!

There is a chance if a Law abiding citizen carrying a firearm legally was in the same theater not as many people may have been killed... we need to come together and practice the rights we still have!!! Every Law abiding citizen should be armed and know how to use deadly force if needed!

We need to escape this Commie liberal way of thinking and pull this country back together!!!!

America will never be a country of citizens carrying hand guns in public. Most Americans do not own a hand gun. Fewer still want to carry one in public. If you carry a hand gun in public, you are a weirdo :-) Yes, we have a 2nd amendment, but that does not mean that most Americans want a gun. In fact, most Americans do not want a gun.

By insisting that hand guns be available to the general public (just about anyone can buy one), you enable many people to own a hand gun. Most will never see their hand gun used to murder. Most hand guns will not be used to murder. But some will.

So, what is more important, to have a lot of people possessing hand guns that will probably never be used, or to keep hand guns out of as many hands as possible, to prevent the nut cases from getting hand guns and killing a lot of innocents?

FORGET THE SOCIOPOLITICAL PLATFORM!

Forget the labels of red, yellow, brown, black, white, bi, gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, and whatever else we like to label ourselves and each other as. Those are intangibles, and irrelevant.

The simple fact here today is that people died who didn't have to. People who were minding their own business going out to see one of the most-anticipated move debuts of the year and were gunned down, had their lives end horribly, tragically, for no apparent purpose that we can see. If you have a Deity that you believe in, ask that Deity for strength, ask that Deity to help those injured, the children most of all; ask that they be healed quickly, body, mind and spirit. Step outside of yourself and your life and give your most sincere prayers/thoughts/wishes to the victims of this tragedy.

The person who did this is as much a victim as anyone else, the victim of a twisted mind and skewed logic that made this senseless act make sense to him. He is to be pitied; if you believe in a Deity, ask that Deity for wisdom, for tolerance, for patience and forgiveness. The person who can commit this kind of outrage is truly ill.

His family is as much a victim as those shot; they too are shocked, stunned, horrified at this senseless act of violence. Keep them in mind as well, for he was their son, their brother, cousin, nephew, maybe uncle. He was once an innocent, as the children he shot were innocent.

Keep those victims in mind; for the ones that died, hope that their passing was quick and they did not suffer. Hope that their families ill be able to celebrate the lives they lived, however long or short; that they can remember their loved ones as they were, instead of as they are. Fr the victims still alive, hope for a speedy recovery, for full recovery in body, mind and spirit; hope that they will not succumb to their injuries.

And lastly, hope for yourselves, your fellow man, and your nation. Never forget the horror and tragedy of this day; remember that we are all human and we are all united in shock and horror and sadness in this one moment, and remember the unity in days to come as more details of the lives ruined bring their humanity before our eyes.

There will be plenty of time, in the days to come, to point fingers, assign blame, claim that it was this political faction or that political faction, that this was not done right, that that did not happen. For now, let us simply unite our voices in a single call for support, sympathy; support those who will need healing, and send good wishes after those who left us last night.

Amanda,

You make some good points. The root cause of these issues isn't about guns or other such simple things. The root cause is more basic. The concept that it may be fine in a variety of circumstances to kill other people for reasons beyond the defense of your own life.

This individual obviously had no reservations about killing his victims. He may very well have had some bizarre justification in his head that made him believe it was an appropriate thing to do. But it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise that disturbed individuals can sometimes reach this type conclusion. The rhetoric we see everyday about hatred for either specific groups of people or even the hatred involved in what many people see as justice in a case like this, is widespread. Vengeance is a common theme in daily discussion and very often it goes to the level of the ultimate vengeance, taking someones life.

People feel completely comfortable talking about how we shouldn't waste time with a justice system and just kill this guy. People talk about "solving" the problems in the Middle East by nuking it. Some feel it's completely appropriate to sting up illegal immigrants, shoot them or electricute them at the border. We as a country are very big on dishing out punishment to those we think might somehow pose some threat to us. We seem quite comfortable with doing this arbitrarily. We often show little respect for fellow human lives except our own and maybe a few family members.

When such discussion is so common and accepted, is it so hard to see why someone who isn't 100% mentally, to take it to the extension that says killing these people makes perfect sense to him?

When you read our Constitution and keep the interpretation at a high moral level, what we are saying is that every human being's life is worthy of respect. We made it clear that we don't allow or accept the arbitrary conclusion that some are somehow "bad" people or somehow lesser examples of human life. We define a "justice" system with checks and balances that may ultimately declare someone as a "bad" person and therefore worthy of some type of punishment. But prior to that drawn out conclusion, they are no different than anyone else. We make it pretty clear that discrimination because of race or religion is not acceptable, but overall we really make it reasonably clear that discrimination for any reason is inappropriate. However, we citizens often don't behave this way.

In fact we selectively choose not to respect the lives of many fellow citizens and fellow human beings. We seem quite comfortable with this despite what our Constitution says and in many cases what our religious belief teach us. This lack of respect for other human lives is highly evident in the news every day. It is actually "promoted" by some individuals with public media voices. It also comes out of the mouths of some of our political leaders. We also "promote" and glorify this attitude in movies, TV and video games. And of course it is rampant on the Internet at websites, blogs and discussions. It is a part of our daily lives that we amazingly accept rather than be disgusted by it. We even teach it to our youth. It is often some form of hatred that drives our lives, our conclusions and our very thoughts.

And then somehow we are surprised and angered when some individual commits an act of human disrespect that doesn't fit our personal model of what type of disrespect is acceptable. Then many of us promote the arbitrary application of disrespect against that individual. We are far too comfortable with the concept of revenge. We use it to justify actions that would otherwise be inappropriate. Yet in reality, many of these incidents involve some type of revenge. They strike out for some reason, sometimes selectively and sometimes seemingly randomly. In their minds, something justified their actions.

Banning guns, or locking up people we suspect of being "dangerous", doesn't solve the problem. The most brutal vengeful puunishment for such acts doesn't solve the problem. The root cause is far more basic. It is our acceptance of hatred as being appropriate that is at the root. People learn from what they see and hear. Sometimes they may not get the lesson exactly right. As a people we need to reject hatred of any type. We need to make any form of hatred as unacceptable behavior. We need to teach inherent respect of everyone else. We need to teach that the only acceptable way to issue any form of punishment or "revenge" is through an elaborate legal process that respects and protects the accused in the process. Those are the daily lessons we need to teach. If we did that, we might very well have less examples of some "misguided soul" mis-applying "appropriate hatred".

@Arthur66: Are you here trying to push a political spin on such a horrendous act? This isn't political, it's sick, disgusting and very sad. And so are you for trying to push your little party agenda here when you should be paying your respects to the fallen and their families.. The same goes for all of you sick douchebags who are always trying to put your retarded political spin on everything you possibly can. Stick it where the sun don't shine.. every last one of you.

truetexan: when you need the police THIS very minute, they are only minutes away. My 9mm will be there in seconds if need be

Yep. A true christian attitude. Always be prepared to seriously assault or kill someone with a firearm. Just as your jesus-myth would do, and would have you do.

You people are such frauds. You abandon your very core values, especially when it comes to violence and the "mine is bigger than yours" BS. This election proves the very same thing. Mainstream christians, MY ENTIRE LIFE, have always talked about how absurd the Mormon cult is -- with its Magic Underwear, it silly stories about disappearing Golden Plates and the jesus-myth's visits to early America, all told by the Chief Whackadoo, Joseph Smith. And now, for the sake of partisan hatred, you've all followed lock-step right behind one of the Mormon Cult's biggest whackadoo's of them all -- Mittens Romney, complete with his own wardrobe of Magic Undies. He's the champion of your politics and values now!!

What a bunch of lowlife sell-outs. You right-wing conservatives are nothing but cowards and frauds...you'd sell your values for a dime, clearly because they are worth less than that!

True Texan I assume you are of Mexican heritage. As they were the 1st Texans. There is no evidence that the shooter is a liberal, by and far most gun toting nuts are right wing wackos, much like the population of TEXASS. The butt of the USA.

If everybody in the audience had guns or if the gunman new that was the possibility shooting like this would not happen. As of now only scum bags and bad guys have illegal guns and use them on innocent people. If we had more guns in the trained hands of innocent people the scum bags and bag guys that have illegal guns not legal guns would be thinking twice before they attack innocent people like this.

Everybody wants to blame the NRA and gun owners when something like this and that is competely ridiculous. The chances that this guy actually leagally owned these guns and had proper training to use them is unlikely. Most likely they are stollen guns and he just posssed them with no fear becuase he knows that nobody in a crowded moovie theatre will have any guns to shoot back. I say train everybody that is capable and proves to be responsible to own and handle a gun, then start arming these people all over the country and all of a sudden these situations will stop happening.

Guns, It would be nice if your theory was correct however, this deranged person legally purchased 2 of his guns from Gander Mountain and 2 from Bass Pro Shop all of them LEGAL according to accounts from law enforcement. I haven't heard where he got the tear gas or the round canister that holds larger quantities of ammo or the gas mask and kevlar vest but sorry to be the bearer of bad news, not all deranged lunatics have stolen guns or illegally purchased weapons. I just wish he would have been killed on the spot instead of being allowed to have a trial. However, if he had been killed they probably would have entered his apartment and loss of more lives would have happened when they entered his booby trapped apartment. So thankfully the only respectable thing he did was allow the law enforcement to know his apartment was booby trapped so that neighbors and law enforcement lives are saved. God Bless those families that have suffered the agonizing news of either loss of a loved one or the wounds of loved ones. God Bless those victims. May the Lord bless and protect them all mindfully and peacefully. I suffer from PTSD and this is a horrible lifelong battle that will continue to haunt and hurt these people. Bless you all.

And, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop the nonsense of saying it is political. Can't we all just be able to get along without it being RED OR BLUE? Let us just be RED WHITE and BLUE again! Geesh!

How come we don't have more of you good, law-abiding citizens showing up to protect us with all of your Goddamned gun

And...

"If everybody in the audience had guns or if the gunman new that was the possibility shooting like this would not happen."

I wasn't in the theater (thankfully), and even if I were, I wouldn't have the slightest inkling as to how many people might have had weapons in their possession.

However, I'm wondering if these comments were made before it was reported just how heavily protected this individual was. And would opening return fire in a panicked, crowded, dark movie theater have really been the best course of action for anyone?

He wore a tactical vest, tactical helmet, tactical leggings and tactical gloves. While I question the the effectiveness of his body armor, it doesn't diminish the fact that he likely felt as though he were highly protected. That would have erased virtually any fear he had of taking return fire. In other words, one would think that the prospect of others in the audience being armed would not have been a deterrent.

Furthermore, I spent a great number of years in the military and have engaged in "anti body armor" training and marksmen competitions that included anti body armor drills. At any range beyond 20 yards, under ideal conditions, it still takes a good measure of control to place a well-aimed bullet in an unprotected place. I would imagine that most of the people in that theater had no such training and any return fire would have been somewhat ineffective.

More importantly, these conditions weren't ideal for return fire anyway. The theater was dark, limiting visibility and aim. There was mass panic, meaning the shooter would have had to have exceptional focus and emotional control - something that usually has to be taught via police or military training. Innocent, unarmed people were likely running and jumping everywhere, making it nearly impossible to get a clear aim without hitting innocent victims.

I am a staunch supporter of gun rights. I think they're an integral part of our freedoms and a necessary step toward insuring that the American people will always have the power to stand against tyranny - even if it presents itself in the form of their own government.

However, there is virtually no way that any armed individual in that audience would have stood much of a chance of stopping this from happening or even diminishing the impact of the heinous crime. Perhaps if they had extensive police or military training, they might have been able to get off the shot that could have stopped it, but the chances of that being the case are slim, I'm afraid.

It's an incredibly sad situation and my heart truly goes out to those who were in that theater and their families. I cannot imagine the shock, grief and heartache they feel at this time.

mygirl1 - Whitman is a true tragedy. The clocktower murders. Whitman KNEW something was wrong with him. He kept on having terrible thoughts, and he was going to doctor after doctor, proactively, saying something was wrong with him, and that he was afraid for the safety of his loved ones. The doctors kept on blowing him off. Before he climbed up into the clocktower, he left a suicide note asking that his brain be autopsied because he was certain something was very wrong. They did indeed do an autopsy, and amazingly, they found a glioma - brain tumor, pressing up against the part of the brain that controls aggression. The therapist at the time, that kept on dismissing Whitman's concerns, had all kinds of excuses to cover his butt when that was found out.

Most tragic of all these events. The shooter himself was also a victim. The real villian was a small mass of renegade cells growing in his brain. He tried to get help, was fearful of his own lessening ability to control his rage, and he didnt get the help he needed. A tumor was shooting down people on that dark day...

Steph, its actually a boon to science that this guy did not kill himself or commit suicide by cop. This is such extreme behavior, that these people are important to study. Its possible that by studying this fellow and others like him, a similar tragedy can be avoided in the future. We have all kinds of highly dangerous pathogens - viruses like ebola and small pox in super-high security facilities, for scientists to study. Pathogenic people are no exception. Important to understand in the name of science. Just as long as they can be safely isolated from the general population, like study-strains of ebola or small pox are.

Without guns, people do not die from gun shot wounds.

Without a person to load bullets and pull the trigger, a gun is just a funny shaped piece of metal.

Sco: What part of "(and please don't tell me about that 73 yr old guy in the internet cafe)" did you not understand? And you want to be armed? Puhleeeeeeeeze! Reading comprehension skills needed first!

TRUTEX: "hey real rick...where was your selective outrage when our border patrol agent and over 200 mexicans were KILLED because of YOUR BOZO prez. and the weapons scandal?? You lefties make me puke!!"

Didn't you get the RIGHTIE'S talking points? Don't you know that GUNS don't people--people kill people? You might want to look in the mirror (but be sure and take anti-nausea pills first--cuz if you really saw yourself, you just might puke!)

I am from tennessee and proud of it

I carry a gun, and the only time i have had to use it is in chicago against the black bastards that have tried to rob me, so you yankees keep your people from robbing and we wont need guns

You yankees can kiss my ass for your stupid comments about the Bible Belt down here. Seems funny yall are the ones having all the gun problems up there, as down here everyone knows that your probably carrying, so crime is nothing... I dont lock my house at night, nor when i leave, and i leave my windows open while im gone and all night.... But....... I sleep with a 12 ga, and a 38 spec by my bed, so that is why i leave everything open just hoping one of you yankee transplants try breaking into my house.... They wont even question me after the killen.

I want to have your babies.

(Figuratively speaking.)

Does anyone know if he was bullied as a child? That led to Columbine just down the road.

Guns don't kill people, it just makes it a whole lot easier.

Funny, the only thing i keep seeing in my mind is the millions of babies you liberal democrats kill each year to fulfill your agenda..... Millions.... not 12...... millions.... where is the outcry for all that killing? Where are the Christians raising cane about this?

For all those accusing Limbaugh, you're way off. James identified with the Joker. The connection to Bill Mahler, Hollywood, and SNL is much more realistic.

James Eagan Holmes, suspected of carrying out the Colorado movie theater shooting while wearing an outfit of black ballistic gear, was a Phi Beta Kappa graduate student in neuroscience who started buying his four weapons legally in May, about the time his grades fell and he began the process of dropping out of school.

So his grades dropped and he became a joker as a result of becoming a gun nut. Seems right to me.

With respect to most of the posters on this string (NOT including the useless, tasteless interjections) the situation took place in Aurora, Co. The man who was responsible was from San Diego, CA. Lets stop assuming there are a large number of screwed up individuals in Colorado. Harris and Klybold were an isolated incident, they were mentally unstable, just as this individual is.

The controls are in place per National regulation to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and those with DOCUMENTED mental health issues. The resounding problems are the numbers of people who reflect issues who are NOT documented due to holes in the medical system, prohibative health care costs, and the willingness of those WITH issues to GET themselves evaluated.

Unfortunately, people have to demonstrate this level of imbalance in order for legal institutions to become involved. Also, the laziness or greed of the weapon sellers to do the actual background checks, or pay the money it costs for them to do so.

PEOPLE WAKE UP!

IT may be shocking to you good people - but our government is under the control of a "shadow government"..and they staqe terror attacks in order to take away our rights. They are after the guns! They want to take them away, b/c they know the financial system is about to crash in the U.S. they are desperately trying to take away the guns of the people to leave you defenseless against a govt who is building concentration camps (see youtube!).

Pres. JFK tried to warn us about the "shadow govt". These families brought Hitler to power and they are trying to take down the U.S. The first thing hitler did was stage an event - the "Reichstag fire"..this was "9/11" and then he took away the guns of the people.

They are trying to repeat Nazi germany in the U.S. they are taking away your rights. They are going to crash the U.S. dollar eventually and leave people without money. That is why they are desperately trying to take away weapons. B/c when Americans wake up to the fact that you are being poisoned via the air "chemtrails" (GOOGLE THIS!) and you are being poisoned with GMO food that causes cancer..INTENTIONALLY! you are going to go after the people who deceived you!

Research "MKULTRA" mind control victims. Most shooers are victims of the CIA govt program. They want shooters to murder people so they can take away guns. The only thing protecting you and your family from this evil cabal the "illuminati" in the U.S. ..is that 50% of the people own guns. Once they take it away, you are defenseless against this cabal that brought Hitler to power.

Go to Infowars dot com and listen to Alex Jones. He will tell you the truth! He always finds out that the "shadow govt" stages terrorist attacks and events to take away our rights.

IF YOU AMERICANS DO NOT WAKE UP SOON, YOU WILL FIND YOURSELVES IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE GERMANS WERE..Go to youtube and research "the Illuminati" and their depopulation agenda. They want to kill 90% of the population. Time is running out to wake up America.

Bernitch: No, he is from San Diego area.

Karen Morris: I hope that was all satire. If so, LOL. If not, you seem to be in danger of losing your grip with reality.

This man has a serious underlying problem, and it's as obvious as the nose on most people's faces, if you know what to look for. He doesn't hear voices, if that's what you're all thinking, but at some point, someone probably filled his environment with some crappy ideas. Being alone, there is no real guiding moral rudder, so, with this sort of person, anything can happen.

In 1 generation, based on mutation, they may outnumber, "normal," people, but we are doing our best to sweep the problem under the rug. Don't be surprised as it gets more common. These people already have a pretty hard time balancing reality and fantasy, so we could be helping them become our next generation of thinkers and inventors. Instead, we try to run them through the standard cookie-cutter system, with predictable results.

Another entirely preventable tragedy in America, and it won't be the last.

truetexan: hey real rick...where was your selective outrage when our border patrol agent and over 200 mexicans were KILLED because of YOUR BOZO prez. and the weapons scandal??

Probably the same place YOU were for 8 years, when tens of thousands more people were killed, and TRILLIONS of dollars squandered because of YOUR BOZO PREZ Dumbya Bush and his Weapons of Mass Destruction LIES and RED HERRINGS!

Lick it, truetexan!

Arthur66, great question. He just might be an Occupy Wall Streeter.

Will the media report that, if so?

Those two nuts who tried to blow up an Ohio bridge were OWS.

And that creep Jared Loughner was a radical leftist.

The Virginia Tech killer enviously railed against the wealthy before he murdered innocent people.

It seems like most of the recent nutcase killers were radical, malcontent leftists.

You people are such frauds. You abandon your very core values, especially when it comes to violence and the "mine is bigger than yours" BS. This election proves the very same thing. Mainstream christians, MY ENTIRE LIFE, have always talked about how absurd the Mormon cult is -- with its Magic Underwear, it silly stories about disappearing Golden Plates and the jesus-myth's visits to early America, all told by the Chief Whackadoo, Joseph Smith. And now, for the sake of partisan hatred, you've all followed lock-step right behind one of the Mormon Cult's biggest whackadoo's of them all -- Mittens Romney, complete with his own wardrobe of Magic Undies. He's the champion of your politics and values now!!

What a bunch of lowlife sell-outs. You right-wing conservatives are nothing but cowards and frauds...you'd sell your values for a dime, clearly because they are worth less than that!

Silly me! I thought people weren't supposed to use a religious test in voting for politicians. Something tells me you would be all over Christians if they would only vote for a Christian candidate. Is it something about separating church and state...or maybe it's about religion not belonging in politics.

Everyone has a pet hatred. I've read many on this board. The shooter here hated people. He took his chance to act on that hatred by killing them. To him there were no individuals, just a mass he couldn't understand or connect with.

We talk about guns, violence, tv's, politics (for heaven's sake) and all that but it doesn't matter. We can't predict when the next incident will be or what directly causes it. It'd be nice if bullets weren't so cheap so that when these kinds of things happen the numbers would be lower but good luck taxing bullets to the hilt.

Now he enters the US justice system. We know he killed those people but pretend he is innocent (presumed innocent, right?). This should clue you into how detached from reality our justice system is. Some people hang tight to the Bill of Rights but don't realize it's been bent so many times over its' history that it doesn't actually have much meaning other than what we assign it. We can claim it means anything. I'd like it to mean that this horrible tragedy would be quickly sealed shut and put this guy to sleep quickly, without any insult or injury to the guy. Just put him to sleep, save us money and time and call it one more American tragedy. But we won't get that. The legal system has to make a living. It's your tax dollars so, well, I guess you find the millions that will go into this new circus money well spent. One more tragedy.

Oh, wait. I forgot to mention the theater goers who survived. They'll be dragged into the courts to relive their nightmare as part of the public performance your tax dollars have bought through the justice system. Stay tuned to CNN. I wonder which sponsors will be running ads during the trial of this guy. They know you'll be watching for all the gory details and twisted logic. I guess there's some value in the current US legal/justice system for someone.

Karen Morris

It appears that you may be close to to a psychotic break yourself. You have implied that you have lots of guns.

Please seek medical help before you snap and become the next mass shooter.

As a gun owner myself, the amount of weapons and ammo that he was able to aquire in a span of 2 months are staggering. The cost that I was able to punch up is about minimum $3800 just from the guns and ammo alone and not including the tear gas, body armor, etc. I would not be surprised if that number jumped up to 5k.

I have a feeling a big part is the fact that he could not find a job after earning a masters in neurosciences.

Large student debt, can't get a job, loner..... where did he get the money to buy that amount of arsenal?

As far as I know, the killer hasn't said a word about his motives for the shootings. However, it appears that people on here are not the least bit shy about sharing their own particular reasons why they think this guy did what he did (some of you seem quite certain you know why he did it, in fact, as if you somehow read his mind or hacked into his computer). While it gives us no new information about the story, it's been a great way to find out about each commenter and how he or she feels about the world. I'm not saying that people on here are nearly as full of hatred or dysfunction as the shooter or that they are close to picking up a bunch of guns and shooting up some place-I'm just saying that it seems like the comments can be very revealing about where a person stands on certain issues and what issues are important to him or her. Heck, many of you are using this forum for that very reason. Some of you are obsessive about it, in fact. I guess it's the reason for the vine in the first place.

I tend to agree somewhat with bluegrassguitar that something basic is wrong here. Perhaps an underlying rage in the populace? Death of the American Dream? Gov't pandering to the special interest vice the common interest? Squeezing of the middle class so the have's, have more? I don't really know. All this enrages me. Perhaps the only difference between the shooter and myself is my threshold is higher.

truetexan

The REASON you dont see shootouts and people shooting in all directions blindly just MIGHT be because the people having guns "LEGALLY" knows better and have enough brain matter to realize the consequenses of such stupidity!! YA THINK??? Sorry, no ya dont

So using your own logic then, it makes no sense for legally armed citizens to fire back, because, in your words, the defender would "have enough brain matter to realize the consequences..."

Which means that, unless one is a hero or stupid, there will rarely, if ever, be return fire.

Considering that America is more well-armed that at any time in history, then where are all those heroes? Where are all those "stupid" people firing back? It always seems that people decry their 2nd Amendment rights after a tragedy like this; but more people than ever before are carrying concealed weapons, and yet again dozens are dead before most even realize what's going on. Rarely does even a single shot get fired back in self-defense. We can't keep witnessing the same thing happening again and again and expect things to turn out differently when history proves that the psychology of the moment paralyzes even trained military personnel (who were estimated to number at least FOUR in the theatre at the time)

after suffering thru what seems like endless pages of comments, some insightful, a lot just ignorant bs, I've concluded the following. Gun control, politics, religion, conspiracy theories are not the issue here, merely sideshows. If all guns were prohibited and the alleged shooter was set on killing he would have found a way to do so. He is obviously intelligent, could he have not used used gas, fire or explosives to kill? The real question to answer is why?

But this is America and to seek real answers would require effort and that is just not near the top of our priorities. Instead we continually seek the easy route. Why waste time and energy coming to an informed opinion when talk radio is more than ready to issue us one? Why vote for a candidate when is so much easier to vote for a slogan?

World opinion ranking China as the #1 superpower is on the rise. I suppose it's easier to swell our chests with pride and chant "we're #2", we're #2......

sry getting a little offbase here and beginning to rant. Maybe I'll just go watch a movie......

but more people than ever before are carrying concealed weapons, and yet again dozens are dead before most even realize what's going on. Rarely does even a single shot get fired back in self-defense.

There is a reason it happens that way.

Firstly, look at the age group that was in the theater. The vast majority were under 40, probably even under 30. Very few holders of permits to carry weapons are in that age group. For one thing, it's not exactly inexpensive. A quality handgun is going to set you back a few hundred dollars. Your training is going to cost money, both the tuition for the course(s) you take and the ammunition you're going to have to 'burn up' becoming proficient enough to pass a qualification on a range proctored by an instructor...which will also have a fee. There is a fee to obtain and renew your permit or license, and often you have to go do a range qualification at each renewal. There may be continuing education requirements where one lives, too, so paying to take more courses is in order. Lastly, a good quality holster, which is essential, is going to cost at least $50 and most have to buy several before they find one that really works for them. It's easily a few thousand dollars to get licensed to carry a concealed handgun when it's all said and done. People under the age of 30 typically just don't have that kind of money to throw around!

Virtually all of the people I've ever known who were licensed to carry a weapon were no spring chickens. Their kids were grown, and if they weren't yet retired, they were more working days behind them than there were ahead of them.

Young people tend to think they're invincible, nothing will ever happen to them, and that they'll live forever. Why spend all kinds of money on a handgun and a license to carry it? But after you've been around awhile and you get to know of people, or actually know people personally, who have been assaulted and perhaps even murdered by criminals, you do begin to realize that things can, and do, happen to people. And you also begin to wise up and realize that the only person responsible for you, is you!

It is entirely plausible to me that not one person in that theater was armed. The people I know who are licensed to carry weapons and sometimes actually do simply wouldn't be in a place like that - they'd be home, in bed!

On top of that, most such places will be posted as having a no-weapons policy. Fair enough. It is private property, even though it is open to the public. But you can be asked to leave and not come back again, as happens to shoplifters all the time. Coming back is then 'trespassing'. People get arrested for that! Every person I've ever met who is licensed to carry a weapon is about as straight laced as they come and if the sign says 'no weapons allowed', they don't take them in there. Granted, if you keep them concealed, no one will know you're armed. But then you're going to have a headache should you find yourself in a situation where you withdraw your weapon from concealment...it probably would not culminate in having your permit or license revoked, but since the people who have permits most often don't even have any speeding tickets in their past, they're not generally going to even take any chances there.

history proves that the psychology of the moment paralyzes even trained military personnel (who were estimated to number at least FOUR in the theatre at the time)

So? Virtually all soldiers killed in war are trained military personnel, and their rate of mortality in automobile and motorcycle accidents is staggering, too. Training of any kind only goes so far, and in the middle of the night, in a dark theater, they're just young men (maybe a young woman or two were among them) watching an action movie. Normal people do not go to movies expecting violence to break out, and living like that is not healthy, to say the least. In any case, this would have been similar to an ambush attack, catching the victims off guard, and would be extremely challenging for veterans of actual combat to react to. No one said what these servicemembers specialized in, but they could have just as easily been assigned to Accounting and Finance or something else where weapons and tactics is something left behind in Basic Training.

Just tell the NRA to give AK-47's away and whatever other guns they want to flood America with. That is basically what we have today. End the 2nd Amendment and the NRA. Murderers.

Typical thoughtless statement.

What we know about James Holmes so far is that he is intelligent and that he performed at a high level academically up until very recently. He has been described as shy, reserved, reclusive. But never violent or even confrontational.

What happened to make him suddenly fail in school? Why did he turn violent with no prior history? Why did one of his professors think of Holmes immediately when he learned the shooter was a U. of Colorado student?

His parents haven't said anything. Did they know their son had a dark, violent side? Did they ignore the signs, or were they as blindsided as the rest of us?

We need to find answers to these questions. I hope there will be answers. There must be other young men like Holmes out there, and we need to learn to identify them before they follow in his footsteps.

IMO, the discussion should not be about gun control. For one thing, he bought his guns legally. Second, even though the theatre has a no-gun policy, James Holmes ignored it. Perhaps he was encouraged by the criminals that ignore their local gun laws. Either way, more gun laws would not have stopped him from taping the exit door, moving his car, suiting up, and re-entering the theatre to shoot it up.

What we should be discussing is his mental state. Our 24 hour news cycles, reality tv, UTube, etc makes everyone who wants attention a celeb. But not everyone goes out of their way to get our attention. So this shouldn't receive the blame. There are several anecdotal examples of emotional or mental issues that were obvious before shootings. And we ignore the signs over and over again, to our detriment. It is my understanding that the 7 day waiting period is to see if the gun purchaser is a felon or on a terrorist list. They could spend this time to see if there were any local domestic calls to the police. They could see if there are any recorded documentation involving mental/emotional issues.

James Holmes is another example of someone who spiraled into a chasm that ended in extreme violence. He didn't walk his dog in the morning, and stop to chat with friends and neighbors in the morning just to suit up and shoot up a theatre at night. The change in his behavior and mental state was noted by several parties. No one did or said anything. We need to create a system that allows us to notify someone (law enforcement or mental health) that there are possible issues BEFORE the fact. We notify CPS when we suspect that a child is being abused. The situation is then investigated. We could do something similar when a previously well adjusted person steps off the conveyer belt.

Sailcat-2064101

The entire notion that a concealed weapon would prevent shootings like this one is preposterous on the face of it.

I respectfully disagree.

A situation like this one would not be benefited by a crowd of people pulling out their weapons and firing blindly.

None of the people I know who carry a concealed weapon would just "fire blindly" in a similar situation, they are not stupid. They would aim at the shooter, and he most probably wouldn't have been able to shoot 58 people and kill 12.

The reason why there aren't more wild west-type shootouts in situations like this one can be attributed directly to the fact that most people do not have a license to carry a concealed weapon nor should they.

You are so very wrong Sailcat. First of all, as I mentioned previously, none of the people I know who carry a weapon would just "fire blindly". And the reason some people don't have a license to carry a concealed weapon is because they don't want to, not because they couldn't or because you think they shouldn't.

Note also that in the State where I live, everybody is allowed to carry a concealed weapon (you don't even need a permit), but strangely people have not turned into the cowboys described in your unrealistic scenario. You know Sailcat, honest gun owners use their guns either to hunt, for target practice, and for self-defense, contrary to what you seem to believe owning a gun doesn't turn you into a western movie character.

The point is, gun violence cannot be remedied by more guns.

You bet it can. I guarantee you a burglar will think twice before trying to rob a place where he is aware that there is a few armed guys/girls there. Why do you think cops carry guns?

Don't fear the guns, nor the honest citizen who owns a gun, fear the criminal who owns a gun, he is the one you should be worried about, and anti-guns laws will not stop him from acquiring guns.

Here are a few statistics for you (originally posted by WMG-21): http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

With anti-gun laws only criminals will have guns.

If he did it, he deserves to get the needle but, that is no reason to wipe your ass with the US constitution!

Even if there is no question he did it, he is still presumed innocent and has all the rights afforded a person by the American legal system, until he gives up his rights or gets sentenced by a jury. Since it seems like the evidence is overwhelming, I'm guessing the best his lawyers can hope to do is accept a plea for life without parole, and try to avoid the death penalty.

I just checked, and Colorado does have the death penalty.

"Even if there is no question he did it, he is still presumed innocent and has all the rights afforded a person by the American legal system, until he gives up his rights or gets sentenced by a jury."

Tell that to the anti Zimmerman crowd too.

The right of due process.

Zimmerman's getting a trial, or didn't you know?

Most people I know are complaining about the actions of the police investigators, which can affect the outcome of that trial.

scottmtm

it always amazes me that they call this nut case a SUSPECT. Now we get to spend a lot of tax-payers money for evaluations and trial, etc

That's a drop in the bucket compared to the Tax Payer paid-for costs it will take to keep this Nut Case alive for the rest of his life while rotting away in jail. Don't ask for a death penalty, Embrace-It and Beg-For-It to be enfored in every state of the union. Make it a painful, drawn-out death penalty (like a good-ole fashion Muslim stone throwing contest), then say good bye to America's over crowded prisons, and watch the US murder-rate fall like a rock.

FYI: Colorado has the death penalty.

Works so well on prevention there that people travel from California to Colorado to do their mass shootings. /end sarcasm.

The death penalty has nothing to do with prevention and everything to do with revenge.

Plus it costs MORE to do the death penalty than to incarcerate--due to the cost of all the appeals legal process, etc.

The death penalty is not a deterrent because it's not applied properly

livinginthewoods: If he did it, he deserves to get the needle but, that is no reason to wipe your ass with the US constitution!

No kidding -- that happened too much already during 8 years of President Cheney and VP Dumbya Bush.

That's a drop in the bucket compared to the Tax Payer paid-for costs it will take to keep this Nut Case alive for the rest of his life while rotting away in jail. Don't ask for a death penalty,

Yes, let's just kill them all off. If it turns out later that any of them were innocent, they won't be around to sue us so it will save a lot of taxpayer money.

We know this guy is guilty. I don't trust the justice system to be perfect in all cases.

I don't understand the philosophy. Really. There's a bunch of people who want to keep their guns as a protection from government. But these same people trust the same government to be 100% perfect in every single court case.

He deserves the due process of a fair trial followed by life without parole or the death penalty if (when?) found guilty.

What bothers me is the picture shows the same empty psychotic stare of the loser who shot Rep. Giffords in Arizona. Here's hoping there weren't also people in Mr. Holmes' life who failed to take action to get help for someone who it is painfully obvious desperately needed it !!

Columbine, balloon boy , theater, Colorado.

Well, the powers-that-be aren't generally going to prevent anything. The families of such lunatics have usually tried in the past to get help, they have gone to the authorities and the same sad story emerges. The authorities always say that the person in question has to commit a crime before anything can be done. The parents realize they have a ticking time-bomb on their hands and they can do nothing. Go read about the background of some of the recent murderers with a history of mental illness, there is a dreary similarity to them.

Seldom Seen Sam Colorado

Those of us who do have permits have been trained when to use them in our defense or others... and from what I understand the pandemonium in that theater was not a good environment to start more shooting.

Exactly my point!!! There has NEVER been a shooting like this where the pandemonium doesn't almost exclusively work against armed Americans! Therefore, being armed and ready shows us, time and time again, that it does not adequately prepare us for that few seconds of pandemonium by which time many lives are already lost.

It's time for a new and different approach which has to involve more gun control and more background checks. The idea that, in an armed society, we are precluded from even discussing disarmament is pathetic, paranoid and unintelligent.

mygirl1--you are right--often the parents try to do something, but for various reasons, law enforcement hands are usually tied. To be '51-50'd' (taken into custody for being a danger to self or others) a person has to meet certain IMMEDIATE criteria. And now, with the economy being the way it is, many mentally ill people are let loose while still unstable. Many are pushed onto college campuses. My daughter is a college professor, and has seen a big uptake in the number of unstable people being dumped onto the colleges. Our mental health system is too short funded to be able to handle all of their patients.

The cops should have put a gun to the guys head and blew it off...... For .50 the case would be closed.... but no, we will spend millions of dollars prosecuting and defending this piece of muslim @!$%#, and then we will spend millions more on food, free health care, free cable, free exercise equipment, housing, and on and on, because of liberals.... shoot the prick and its over, what dont you get ab out that? Shoot, Obama and Holder sold guns to Mexicans hoping to start a war down there and killed our own American, and who knows how many Mexicans, but they are still walking around. Why are the rules different for them? Why doesnt the media get all ballistic about this? Friggin bunch of communists is why.

If Obama was white and had a son, he'd look just like James Holmes.

Awww. Touching...

Mittens Romney and his Magic Underwear paused for a moment, today, to offer his condolences to everyone affected by the shooting.

I wonder if Joseph Smith's disappearing Golden Cult Tablets will be able to help?

Yeah, Mormon Cultism. There's your new leader, righties!!

"no reason to wipe your ass with the US constitution"

The Constitution was written by slave owners and didn't have slaves in mind whatsoever at it's inception. It didn't really include women either, as women couldn't vote at the time.

The Constitution was once amended to make alcohol illegal. We still drink.

Who needs to wipe themselves with a document that's as solid as play-dough? The Constitution means whatever who's in power wants it to mean. I'm glad you feel it's there to protect known mass murderers from any kind of real judgement. Anyone with common sense would have shot this kid the moment they apprehended him. What more proof of his guilt do you need? Oh, that's right- a team of high profile lawyers seeking to make a name for themselves defending the undefendable, a drama played out on court TV for sponsor ads and dollars, perhaps a few crime shows and books documenting what we all know happened but in closer, gory detail.

Yeah, we need that. THAT'S American and THAT'S what the Constitution is really all about these days. All the rights in the world to a populace who can't accept an ounce of responsibility.

First principle- We will never get these guns out the hands of these killers, this is a given, with the NRA and their political lobbyists, never.

Second principle- We will never be able to check on gun owners as they are about trip off the line, and separate their guns from them and into a safe place, where there use can be monitored.

Third principle- Develop a system of keep track of the gun owners rate of fire systems, how large are the clips they can have for the rifles, and the hand guns they own, register the clips, nothing over 8 rounds for hand guns and ten rounds for rifles, or you could rent extra large mags., from the police department to use when you go shooting. No restricting guns, no restricting gun ownership, only restricting the amount of rounds you could fire before reloading. This is such a small action, and I would work. Please all say together "guns don't kill people, bullets do"!! I live in Hawaii, and biggest clip I can buy for my .45 auto-loader is eight rounds, it's easy!!

Columbine, balloon boy , theater, Colorado.

Your point? What state do you live in? Bet I can easily find 3 stories like this in ANY state in the union.

Everyone think about this... How much worse would it have been if there were others shooting back... Really think about it.. This guy had body armor, the surroundings were dark, people screaming and running in all directions.... If you've ever been shooting, you'll know that those ARE NOT ideal conditions for trying to hit a target.... I've heard it a bunch, "If there were more people with concealed permits it might have turned out different... Yeah, it would have. More people would have gotten killed in the crossfire. Not to mention all the fall out there would be from victims shot by friendly fire.. Wouold you really want to get your ass sued off by someone you accidentally shot trying to protect? Not many of you read the whole article did you? just wanted to get your comment out here and push your personal agendas....

ps I'm not anti gun, I actuall have an unload shotgun in my closet for when its needed... we dont need tougher gun laws, we don't need to abolish the right to carry guns... There really is no solution I can think of. If you get rid of guns, criminals will still get them black market style.. Then we've got criminals armed and the rest of us not..Everyone carrying a gun isn't the answer either. The wild west kinda sucked and I'd hate to have to relive something like that, where everyone has a gun and a chip on their shoulder. Like I said, I can't think of a perminant "fix it" solution, probably why I don;'t run for pres or congress...

He will not be executed. The libs think it is to barbaric to do such things. He will watch sports shows on his big screen tv for the next 60 years. Life will be good for him.

Makes me sick to see what extend these nut cases take it to for notariety. I agree with you Cindy....he obviously planned this out. He WILL burn in hell for this!

Cindy-3585930 , i could not agree with you more and disagree with the people who said some crazy things about it being blamed on rush or Obama or who ever they blamed it on. the guy was a nut job and i agree he had it planned out and he burns in hell , i live in KY and every now and then they do execute people but this nut job needs it and i agree with the people that our gun rights should not be took away but as one post said and he was right , you can buy a gun anywhere , maybe not in the store but off the street. i woke up a while ago and seen this story and it was so sad. about the three month old baby , one post said why would the mom take a baby to the movie? well because a mom and dad should be able to take the kids anywhere to watch a movie or have fun with there other family members , who would know a mad man was going to kill them or other people?

He will not be executed. The libs think it is to barbaric to do such things. He will watch sports shows on his big screen tv for the next 60 years. Life will be good for him.

What a stupid statement. I'm willing to guess that you're a right-to-life anti-abortionist? Living a hypocritical lifestyle, a bit?

Clearly someone who needs to try visiting a state prison. Big screen TV? Not even the guards have big screens. They'd be lucky if it's in color and gets more than 3 channels. And they get to share it with several hundred other individuals.

Lap of @!$%#ing luxury, amirite.

I agree--all those nuts who think prison life is the lap of luxury--how about you try spending a week or 2 inside? Guarantee you'll change your mind.

Rhode Island, ACI (Adult Correctional Institution)

Not big screen TV's, but the single cells have cable.

This was a political attack in support of Rush Limbaughs assertion that Batman was attacking Bain, and thus retribution for the attacks on Mitt Romney. It is clear Rush laid out the plan

JK in PA, you made an inane statement. I am against abortion as well as the death penalty. Life should be valued and not destroyed. James Holmes will have to answer to God for his sins against mankind one day. Judge not lest ye be judged. Have a nice day!

Since we cannot be sure that he will " burn in hell " then maybe we could burn him at the stake or crucify him?

Apparently the fear of life in prison or death by lethal injection is insufficient deterrence. At least these selfish murderous bast*rds might be more inclined to off themselves saving society the insult of having to try them and then house them and pay for them the rest of their miserable lives?

Those who are against war are also those who are against peace. If one does not consider the death penalty as a safeguard against the abolition of safety in a modern society, then it is at this point that one must realize that they are no safe. As for not judging unless we want to be judged, even a lack of making a judgment is considered tantamount to making a judgment by default, not to mention that we make hundreds of seemingly smaller judgments each day, such as how much do we spend at the grocery store, what kinds of food and drinks do we consume, what kinds of bills do we owe and do we pay and how much do we pay on those things, or even a simple act such as breathing or sleeping is, in and of itself an act of judgment, so how can one truly say that they are without judgment if our lives are indeed governed by judgment? With that being said, the people who are against guns and the political and anti-political types should have been the ones in that theater so that we, the sane ones of society, would not have to eventually snap due to their stupidity being applied to us day after day. We have limits to our sanity, fellow humans, so please respect those limits or things like this will only get worse and worse. Thank you.

So listen to you or you'll kill us all, right?

That's basically what you are saying. At least the part that isn't complete gibberish.

Well he sure the Hell isn't a spokesman for Weight Watchers.

job1 if only there had been nra people there this scumbag wouldnt have killed so many people

If the NRA would quit being so God Darn paranoid that the Government wants to take guns away, we would have tougher laws to keep nut jobs like this shooter from getting the guns.

You really think laws would've stopped him? You people never cease to amaze me. You can walk down any street in Amerika and get a gun through illegal means.

@Job1

Really? And what law would have done that? Unless you're proposing outlawing all firearms like England. Oh wait, according to their own accounts they have a higher murder rate per 100,000 than we do. How does that fit in with your theories?

Hea, I saw on the news last nite that a 71 year old in Florida popped a cap in 2 thugs that came into the internet cafe yesterday. One with a baseball bat, the other with a pistol and the guy gets up and handled it. You never know, but he may have saved several lifes, just never know. All I know for sure is the bad guys got shot.

Chicago and New York have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the U.S., can see how well its going for them? Just by making something illegal does NOT make it Disappear. Heroine, Cocaine, both illegal and smuggled into the U.S. but how hard is it to obtain?

What a dull board...........No on has blamed Obama for this yet.........slow Friday???

I am a gun-toting citizen and if I had been in that theater at the time there would have been fewer victims +1, the perp.

Tommy Lee-1217088

Hea, I saw on the news last nite that a 71 year old in Florida popped a cap in 2 thugs that came into the internet cafe yesterday. One with a baseball bat, the other with a pistol and the guy gets up and handled it. You never know, but he may have saved several lifes, just never know. All I know for sure is the bad guys got shot.

A 73 year old Detroit man shot and killed a thug this week after he broke into his home for the second time. Thank god we allow people to own guns.

Actually, you don't have the right to "use it as you want" if the "want" part of it includes pointing it and firing at other people. Please gather some common sense.

Guns are not the problem. This guy would have used the explosives he had in his apartment if guns weren't available. If someone in the theater had been a conceal carry person he might have saved some lives.

John Aalborg

I am a gun-toting citizen and if I had been in that theater at the time there would have been fewer victims +1, the perp.

Yes, that's what your type always say: but when push comes to shove, you would realize that if you pulled out a gun to stop a lunatic like this, now there are TWO shooters for the police to deal with when they arrive at the bloody scene. An armed man said this very thing when he failed to draw his weapon during the shooting at the Gabby Giffords assailant. You think there won't be another armed individual who will decide that YOU are the shooter? No, this is nothing short of insanity, and more guns will not lessen the risks, they only guarantee a pathetic continuation of the same old sad story.

nosferatu-499026

You really think laws would've stopped him? You people never cease to amaze me. You can walk down any street in Amerika and get a gun through illegal means.

Yes, and whose side do you suppose is more responsible for allowing this to happen? Guns through legal means, guns through illegal means. What's the common denominator here? could it be...

GUNS?

I struggle to understand how fewer of them could be bad in any world. But let's just keep making them so that the gun manufacturers can continue to satisfy their shareholders.

if only there had been nra people there this scumbag wouldnt have killed so many people

The NRA is a lobbying group....ONLY a lobby. Nothing more. Just collecting easy money from people who think there actually could be a way to have the government take away their guns. And so they feed that idea, stoking up fear against anything that is 'other', anything that is not 'us'. Just a freaking lobbist group that's exclusive ambition is to follow the money... just like any other lobbist group. Agenda driven because of their very own paycheck.

Fear sells... Until you stop buying it.

All you paid political bloggers tying this to Rush L. (p.s. I'm not a fan of Rush) or Tea Party or anything else political, be it liberal or conservative. You're all scum. Period. If you can't figure out why, you're not even human and could not possibly posses a soul. Go worship your political idol and stay "In the woods" far from the real human populace.

Rick's Real

GUNS?

I struggle to understand how fewer of them could be bad in any world. But let's just keep making them so that the gun manufacturers can continue to satisfy their shareholders.

Lets not forget how Limbaugh gave that movie his usual hate filled reviews.

Just a few short days ago Mr Daily Megadose Oxycontin himself connected that Batman movie to the Democratic party out to destroy Romney because 20 years ago some writer developed acharacter called Bain as the villian in that movie. That psychomaniacal unhinged mass murdered obviously did care for anyone who wished to view that movie. The word bain is also an English word centuries old. While I defend the right to bear arms, don't forget the 2nd amendment was written during a time when muzzle loaders were state of the art in firearms.

Some people speak of gun control as if an inanimate object can do such damage without someone to sqeeze the trigger. Gun control would only empower the illegal gun trade in time. There is no easy solution.

This maniac would do this kind of horrific damage with or without guns. Gun control is a moot point in this story. I just wish these homicidal lunatics we read about all too often would practice on themselves first.

My sincerest condolences to the families and loved ones of the victims.

Job1

If the NRA would quit being so God Darn paranoid that the Government wants to take guns away, we would have tougher laws to keep nut jobs like this shooter from getting the guns.

Another one who thinks anti-gun laws will stop criminals from acquiring guns ... Let me repeat this: anti-guns laws NEVER stopped criminals from acquiring guns, it only leaves honest citizens defenseless.

Just a few short days ago Mr Daily Megadose Oxycontin himself connected that Batman movie to the Democratic party out to destroy Romney because 20 years ago some writer developed acharacter called Bain as the villian in that movie.

The guy who created Bane is an outspoken conservative.

Dbachrach: Untrue. According to the latest UN Report on Homicides, released in March of 2012, the UK had a rate of 1.2 per 1000 while the US rate was 5 per 1000.

@John Aalborg: I would question the wisdom of discharging a firearm in a chaotic crowd. I might get in your way as you tried to bring down the bad guy.

Gun control would only empower the illegal gun trade in time.

Of course it will. But guns will be harder to get. Which is kind of the whole point.

Or do you think that a neuroscience grad student has easy access to the underworld mafia?

Do you think that next high school students who want to emulate Columbine would just walk into a mafia store and buy a few guns?

There are as many guns in the US as there are people.
I love that.

Of course it will. But guns will be harder to get. Which is kind of the whole point

Yeah, 'cuz the Drug War is going just swimmingly...

Want to know how to handle shooters like this one? A method that would put an end to this and other copycat crimes?

1. Put him in a body cast.

2. Publicly and with great fanfare drop him, screaming, into the ocean and watch him sink.

3. Make it illegal to speak his name, speak of the incident, or display his picture ever again.

These steps would take away any incentive for a future lunatic of creating an endless legacy, you take away their ability to etch a permanent place in history. Instead, they could visualize a future of instant, helpless death followed by the knowledge that they will be forgotten, having been cast into cultural oblivion. No hero worship, no acknowledgment at all. It will be as if they never existed; their life erased with no fanfare at all. Make them invisible and the madness will stop.

odb2: dont blame the law abiding gun toting citizens we got the right to carry a gun and use it as we want

Law abiding, like this guy, until he decided to NOT be law abiding anymore.

Bit of a Catch 22, there, punkin!!

We don't need any more gun laws! We have plenty of gun laws.............. Nobody uses the ones we have.

Having and owning a gun does change you. I've been trained to shoot, have for a while, but I choose not to. There is an invincibility feeling that comes with a firearm. Its a false since of security and an even more false since of power and too much responsibility for the average person to honor.

Tell you what's wrong with this country: 'Guns kill people and then people kill people when guns are in their hands". Weapons should be in the hands of law enforcement people as in most of civilized democratic Europe. America is still living in its Rambo 'Wild West' age. The hell with NRA!

Oh really Balmohan? I happen to be a member of the NRA as well as my husband, my brother, my dad and mom have been for years. and am damn proud of it! In fact my dad and mom have their conceal carry licenses and my husband and I intend on getting ours as well. I'll stand by my 2nd Amendment Rights until the day I day.

It's so sad that this Nut Job had to kill all these innocent people, but not all gun owners are crazy like this fool. He could have gone in welding a knife, baseball bat etc. and still have done the same thing; maybe not as many but item can be classified as a "lethal weapon".

You people who go off spouting that we need to get rid of guns, do you even realize that if you allow the government to do this you are just a bunch of sheep being led to slaughter. How many more rights are you going to allow Big Brother to take away from you? Pull your head out of the sand and look around.....we've got the government telling us what we can eat, what we can drink, where we can and cannot smoke (no I'm not a smoker but just because I don't smoke doesn't mean I have the right to tell others they can't!)

Sheryl > He could have done the same thing with a knife or baseball bat?

He could have killed 13 people, injured 50 people in 15 minutes if he was holding a knife or a baseball bat?? "Maybe" not as many?

Maybe progress could be made if people were at least being realistic. Please try to be realistic and reasonable before making your mind up about anything.

Stronger gun laws don't mean outlaw all guns although I don't see the need to sell armor piercing bullets or other specialized amo at Walmart they should be illegal as should some guns. The law abiding citizen would be inconvenienced by a waiting period maybe even a have to take a test to get a licence but you and your family would be most likely able to own all the guns you want. I agree it doesn't remove the illegal gun trade but it makes it harder for them. In addition as I said above not all guns and amo are created equal but the NRA has declared they are because they have over the years gone from a responsible group looking out for gun rights to a bat *** crazy bunch of nuts. The guns this guy used should never be allowed to be sold to public except to those that can prove the first they need them and second they know how to use them. So just like you don't put every person who wants stronger gun laws in one bucket just like I don't put all gun owners in one bucket nor should we consider all guns equal, lets start using our brains and get some logic into our laws.

@Sheryl-1137681

Like you or your husband along with your buddies can stop the Government of the United States of America with your little pee-shooters??? Gimmee a Break Please...!

not all guns and amo are created equal but the NRA has declared they are because they have over the years gone from a responsible group looking out for gun rights to a bat *** crazy bunch of nuts.

The current NRA reasoning is that any restrictions on any specific type of weapon is the slippery slope to the banning of all weapons.

Based on that idea, then fully-automatic weapons would be allowed. In that case why shouldn't I be allowed have an RPG? Or surface to air missles?

I don't personally hunt, but I have no problems with hunters. But why do you need an AK-47 to take down an elk? It's my personal opinion that the most rabid NRA members are planning to defend themselves from the government.

Gonna be intersting seeing guys armed with AR-15's fighting TOW-equipped Bradley's and M1's.

France is Taking Applications for Citizenship !!

Like you or your husband along with your buddies can stop the Government of the United States of America with your little pee-shooters???

Yeah, 'cuz the Iraqi insurgency was a real pushover, and the Taliban is pretty close to destroyed in Afghanistan.

/sarc

So Sheryl, I gather that you're planning an armed insurraction in the near future?

Sheryl is a fine example of the lunacy that exists in the NRA.

Same affect with a baseball bat? Really!

Does a baseball bat have the same affect from 30 feet away as a handgun? It does if the handgun is out of bullets.

Your rationalization is irrational.

So Armando....you admit the Tea Party Patriots are not better than the Taliban.

And Cheryl dear...please go back and read your precious Constitution. The second amendment has a CLEAR qualifier regarding the "right to bear arms" that being - "a well regulated militia used to defend the State" (Capital "S" means nation/government not lower case "s" meaning state such as Virginia).

You are given the right to bear arms with the EXPECTATION that you will use those arms to defend your national government and nation - not rise up against it! For what it's worth...our founding fathers had no problems taking those who did try to rise up against the federal government and put them down like rabid dogs.

the Tea Party Patriots are not better than the Taliban.

You really believe that, don't you?

The second amendment has a CLEAR qualifier regarding the "right to bear arms" that being - "a well regulated militia used to defend the State"

You may want to read this article by Cecil Adams before going further in this line of argument.

You are given the right to bear arms with the EXPECTATION that you will use those arms to defend your national government and nation - not rise up against it!

On the contrary, James Madison in Federalist Paper #28 said the following:

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.

Sheryl said:

You people who go off spouting that we need to get rid of guns, do you even realize that if you allow the government to do this you are just a bunch of sheep being led to slaughter.

Kind of like the 12 dead and 50 injured as a result of this person having guns ? I wonder how many would be dead and how many injured if there were laws actually regulating arms and keeping them in the hands of state militia ?

Guns in the hands of people ranting about conspiracy theories regarding all their rights being taken away is more than a little scary. Just sayin.

How many more rights are you going to allow Big Brother to take away from you? Pull your head out of the sand and look around.....we've got the government telling us what we can eat, what we can drink, where we can and cannot smoke (no I'm not a smoker but just because I don't smoke doesn't mean I have the right to tell others they can't!)

So, if you don't get an abortion does it mean you don't have the right to tell others they can or can't, right?

Or is your philosophy of not having the right to decide for others limited only to government, motorcycle helmets, cigarettes, and guns?

The Funny Thing Abount Gun Laws and Gun Controls is that they only Apply to Law Abiding Citizens. Every Crazed Lunitic, gang banger, and otherwise gun criminal typically don't get their guns in a legal manner in the first place. What makes you think adding more gun laws would change this fact?

Armando, I believe that James Madison was correct in his Federalist Papers. Bob, it's true that most criminals don't get their guns in a legal manner. It's also true that a minority of perpetrators do get them through legal means, because now and then, a first time offender can pass the background check (well, in CA where I live, there is a background check.). But there is something else, more related to a free society and James Madison's concerns that is happening right now that I am asking the people who are engaged in this 'gun rights' argument to think about. Drug cartels in Mexico have TAKEN OVER parts of northern Mexico, and because the law abiding Mexican Citizen has NO Second Amendment rights, and the Federales can't be everywhere, those law abiding Mexican Citizens who live in those parts of northern Mexico are at the COMPLETE MERCY of the drug cartels. Those drug cartels have set up their own government. and their own religion. The MASS MURDERS that have occurred there are on a much bigger scope, and will continue to be until the cartels are brought down. How are those law abiding Mexicans to defend themselves from the drug cartels? Just something to think about.

Comparing the Taliban to the Tea Party is kinda stupid!......... Just saying.

How do you kill women and children? It's easy. You just don't lead 'em so much.

Sorry, totally inappropriate Full Metal Jacket moment. In all seriousness, I doubt the guy cared one bit. Hell, in Norway, the guy who shot up the youth camp DELIBERATELY targeted teenagers.

They don't see women and children. They just see targets.

This nutjob was from California....the nutjob capital of the US.

I was thinking the same thing, Why? Our human minds can't think the same way because lets face it we don't have the same mentality to do what the shooter did. But I have to look at something...

My uncle was in the same college field as this guy.. Neuroscience.. My uncle had a massive heart attack at the age of 34, the pathologist thought it was due to stress. I am in Forensic Psychology and at times I crack under the pressure from the studies. I wonder if dude just snapped from pressure and went all batman on a crowd because that was his distorted reality? Before you can retort, yes I know many people have graduated without going psycho on a crowd, but strange when you see these spree killings- some are done by college kids in their prime of their studies.

I am with everyone else, death penalty..

To suggest that the movie patrons should have had guns to defend themselves is just pure insanity. If James Holmes knew that were a possibility, he simply would have started firing from the back of the theater using something for cover.

The real solution to this type of crime is to create a comprehensive mental health care system that teaches everyone the signs of a person that's disintegrating before your eyes. Education is the solution to most vexing problems. This is a persistent and resistant lethal problem.

But our politicians prefer a lumbering defense department that is still ineffective. Tax breaks for the wealthiest that don't really need them.

What ever is wrong with James Holmes it's too late to fix him. He needs to put down like a rabid dog. He has no history of mental illness so he wont get out that way. Temporary insanity is out too. His crime precludes that judgement.

The question is: how do we stop the next nut-job from buying more guns and bomb making material and going out on a killing spree? There has to be accountability by everyone purchasing guns. No more quick and easy sales. Yes we do have a second amendment but this situation has gotten out of hand. I refuse to be gunned down in a theater so the gun lovers of this country can have their way.

If you want to buy a firearm you simply have to prove your stability. That's not asking too much! If you think it is than maybe you aren't stable.

I agree that we've had a lot of mass violence in the past but it just wasn't instantaneous national news but, on the other hand, I would be surprised if the rate isn't higher in the last couple of decades compared to prior decades because of the instant media exposure. I have to believe that this is helping influence some people to commit these killings, terrorist acts, whatever, knowing they'll definitely have a "legacy" ensured. We know that many killers thru history have wanted a greater audience to know what they did and why and it's easier now than ever to do that. Of course, this is just one variable though.

Troy...I am a product of the 70's and NO...this kind of thing DID NOT HAPPEN. Parents didnt take their 3 month old or 6 year old to a midnight movie....midnight movie premieres didnt exist...and if you were in a theater that showed a midnight movie...it was an XXX theater and there were CERTAINLY no children there.

You did NOT have 24 year olds walking into places wearing body armor and tossing tear gas. You did NOT have teenagers opening fire in a crowded mall food court at lunch time.

I played outside during the summer from 8 in the morning until ten at night in a big city and nobody EVER approached me or my friends in an attempt to abduct us. And do you know why? Because there were ALWAYS other parents outside watching us. Those parents were likely not ours...but during those days parents watched out for kids regardless of the fact of who they belonged to.

The US has changed precipitously since the 1970's. The most violent programming my generation saw was horror based....not reality based. We all knew the Exorcist and Jason Voorheis didnt and couldnt exist so we didnt glorify it. We had no GTA and no Call Of Duty. We went outside and played Call of Duty using cap guns or our fingers....not seeing incredibly realistic images of characters blown to bits.

I am not saying the 70's were free of nutjobs, far from it. We had our serial killers. The difference is that we didnt have kids shooting up schools, shopping malls, and theaters. And if you can't see that you need to seriously re-examine how you look at the world.

Evil

I was alive in the '70s and there certainly were midnight movies that weren't XXX rated. Rocky Horror comes to mind. There were also mass murders in the '60s and '70s. Remember Charles Manson?

It's nice that you remember your childhood so fondly, but really, evil has always been with us.

When James Huberty shot up a McDonald's in San Ysidro in 1984 and killed 21 people (the first mass killing I recall hearing about as a teen), I wasn't able to go on the internet and bathe in coverage and commentary. In fact, I didn't even know about it until my dad turned on the five o'clock news.

If you ever wonder why people keep insisting things are going to hell in a handbasket, in spite of the statistical data that show we actually have a lower crime rate today than we did in 1990, go and read up on the "availability heuristic". Interesting Social Psychology phenomenon.

Yes...there were midnight movies...but not midnight movie premiers for normal movies...and i would be willing to bet that there were no 3 month olds or 6 year olds in the audience at RHPS. I participated as a shadowcast member for years...so I am fully aware of RHPS/The Wall and the midnight movie phenominon. Please reread my first sentence.

Please also reread my last sentence...I know there were serial killers.

You missed my point entirely. There have always been bad people and whackjobs in the world. Start with Nero and Caligula and move right on through Torquemada and into Hitler and Mussolini. What we havent had is random people going into public locations and deciding to randomly kill as many people as possible.

And I am not saying it never happened...as long as there are unbalanced people in the world bad things will happen. There were several school shootings in the 70's....but nothing compared to what we see today.

Spartan....i pose to you a very simple question.

Do you feel safer in your home and community now than you did 20 years ago?

Crime rates are going down....but instead of looking at overall crime statistics...look at violent crimes. Look at crimes involving guns. Once you have those numbers come back to this conversation and see if your views are still the same.

I feel safer in my community thanks to cell phones, alarm systems and the expansion of the 911 emergency system.

O'Really....i don't. People now use cell phones to film beatings and then post them to youtube. My alarm system may or may not protect my home since I have had a half - dozen false alarms ... the police didnt even bother to come the last time it happened.

As far as 911 goes....911 doesnt help when someone is leveling a gun in a mall food court or in a crowded theater. Nor does your alarm system or your cell phone.

I appreciate the advances of modern technology but I rue the breakdown of society to it's lowest common denominator.

Yep...don't know what fantasy world Eviloompa lived in the 70's & 80's

There sure weren't things like the Hillside Strangler, Manson, Unibomber, Dahmer etc etc etc going on back then! There sure weren't attempts on President Reagan, and John Lennon! NO WE WERE ALL SANE PEOPLE BACK THEN! LMFAOROTFL.

Hey Eviloompa.....let me know when you get back from Fantasyland and ready to post something intelligent!

I think its simple... there are more crimes like this because there are more people. I'm sure that the percentage of acts like this per million people is about the same as it was 75 years ago. With the population doubling roughly every 25 - 30 years there will be more people with mental illness but but the same percentage of them. This also means that even tho there are more incidents, there are also more "targets" (not sure what term to use).. so the chance you will be the chosen target are also about the same as it was years ago.

Its just more in your face in this new world of internet, 24 hour cable news stations, mobile connected world

LakerSteve...pretty sad (and typical) that you have to resort to name calling. At no point did I discount that there were atrocious things happening in the 70's and 80's but would you let a child go outside now and play from morning to night and not worry that anything was going to happen to them?

I mentioned that there were serial killers and I mentioned the monsters that have lived among us since recorded history began. Evil exists in the world...and it always will. But...things were safer then than they are now. See my point above and read the rest of my posts.

Relating to this issue...in the 70's Kevlar had just been discovered and the military didnt start using it for ballistics protection until the mid 80's so in this case there is no way a someone could walk into a theater wearing a kevlar vest and helmet and start shooting in the 70's.

Technology has made the world a more dangerous place...or does everyone fail to see that?

I wish people would read the full context of an email before they choose to respond. However...I will not stoop to level of name-calling myself.

Really Laker Steve, Eviloompa lived in fastasyland? I have the same memories growing up in the 50s and 60s. No one I knew ever locked their homes day or night. Over my lifetime, the way of life in the US has deteriorated drastically. You must not be very old.

Yeah raleigh, he does and so do you.

Bars have been on windows & doors in LA suburbs like Compton, Inglewaats, etc. since the 60s.
Like I said, let me know when you get out of Fantasyland.

Hey Laker Steve - Apparently you are very familiar with the poor white trash neighborhoods. It shows.

Raleigh & Evil: There were bad things that happened back then. But I felt much safer then even though we didn't have cell phones. Not quite as many really messed up youths having flash mobs, just randomly shooting people and home invasions. This Holmes guy seems to have a similar mo to the guy that shot the Giffords lady. A loner, video game fan, no real social skills. Parenting? Maybe being set in front of the tv since he was a baby is what causes a social breakdown.

Everyone felt "SAFER" because they were younger, didn't have 24 hour news coverage. Family's have alot to do with it too.. A year ago before my twins were born I never locked my door, car door, windows, ect... I'd go trooping through bad neighborhood in the middle of the night.. I felt safe. Then Boom, my kids were born and now it's doors locked, windows checked, no more hanging out in bad places... Safer back then, please. Your looking at technology as a bane to the world but also look how far we've come in the medical fields... People that would have died back then from wounds or illnesses can now be saved... Anyone who thinks it was safer back then, "IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS" is insane...

I tend to mostly agree with eviloompa. Times were different back then, and so was parenting. If ANY adult told my parents I was misbehaving, I was guilty. Now we hire the best attorneys we can afford to defend our little precious ones over teen-age mischief. Rather than admit our kids are not perfect nor our parenting, we blame teachers, the punk's friends, society, etc.

Parents prided themselves in being able to provide the basics, food, shelter, access to an education. A parents love was not measured in buying a child everything he/she WANTS. In fact, we had a derogatory term for that, SPOILED BRATS!! We had no soccer moms. If I wanted to play baseball, (here's the astonishing part) I HAD TO PUT FORTH THE EFFORT. I had to either walk or ride my bike to practice (oh the horror, lol). I did get to ride to the games with my parents though.

Before the "times are so much tougher for kids now" band-wagon gets rolling, let me say there are no more boogie men hiding behind trees now than there were back then. The only difference is it's reported more. Back then the news was boring, but it was news. I don't even watch local news anymore and national news less and less. A little news but mostly human interest stories to generate media hype all in the name of ratings. So parents, keep buying your spoiled brats everything they want. You have to keep your own ratings up, roflmao.

Also food for thought, look at what's going on with the Catholic Church - you are seeing incidents from 20, 30, 50 years ago. That's a part of like in 50's and 60's I think you're ignoring - people just didn't talk about certain things. Nowadays that attitude doesn't fly anymore.

It's just as safe today to let your kids roam the neighborhood, unless you're a helicopter parent or live in a gang zone. I live in a middling size city in Upstate NY, and my kids pretty much have the run of the block til 8 or so. I recall this being true for myself in the 80's and 90's as well, the @!$%# I remember getting up to...

People worry about abductions, when reality is the most danger to kids is probably back at home. That was true then, but like I said, people looked the other way and minded their own business, as if that was somehow virtuous. Go back far enough and they used to put children in mental hospitals and juvenile centers for claiming they were abused or raped by parents or other family members.

And people used to throw picnics under the bodies of men hanged without a trial, often not even for committing any real crimes, just breaking the local social code. I'd say, as a society, we've grown a bit more moral. I wouldn't want to live back then, anyway.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"

Thomas Jefferson

Not the NRA.

[channeling knee-jerk Leftist who blames Rush Limbaugh for the actions of a psychopath who may well have believed he was the Joker]

Mahatma Gandhi and Thomas Jefferson were Teatards!

Thank you Bob Fu!!

Because you carry armor-piercing bullets? Did you hear that he had on a riot-gear helmet and a bullet-proof vest? Then what?

Jason and Wyo Cat, You both are so frickin naive about what you can and can't do with a gun, please educate yourself about the use and capabilities in an urgent circumstance.

What a great idea! Everyone shoot each other in the dark smoky movie theatre. Yeee Haw! That would REALLY have saved lives, wouldn't it? //sarcasm off

Border, I assume you're qualified to take on an unknown number of shooters armed with unknown weapons in a dark crowded theater filled with running, screaming, panicked people blinded by tear gas, and that you can do it without injuring anyone but the shooters.

Apparently you're an ex-SEAL who holds the Medal of Honor. Congratulations.

Border's response comes from the same mentality as the shooters. Too much "Call of Duty" bravado....well I'll just whip out my Glock and take the bandit out.

sounds like you have hoplophobia.how do you know he was a responsible gunowner.for you to lump everyone who owns a gun into one category and say that at any minute they are going to go crazy and start killing is completely ridiculous. if you liberals with your bleeding heart aclu lawyers didn't dismantle the mental health system in this country decades ago you would see a lot less of this.

LN, I agreed with you right up until you started ragging on "you liberals with your bleeding heart aclu lawyers."

First, I'm a "bleeding heart liberal" as you so elegantly put it, and I support reasonably regulated gun ownership (yes, I own guns.)

And second, It was Reagan who dismantled the mental health system in this country. I remember that pretty well because at that time I worked for one of the organizations that got "dismantled" (read: defunded.)

And second, It was Reagan and the ACLU who dismantled the mental health system in this country.

Gun lovers:

"Live by the sword - dye by the sword" ...and so will your children.

How many times in the history of the US has the government turned it's arms on unarmed civilians...Is it really worth the lives of your family and friends to allow gun loving nut jobs in this county to own automatic weapons....in in this day and age? ...really?

Thank god I don't live in a Red state - where nut jobs are free to run around with automatic weapons and these types of incidents are way more common.

How many times in the history of the US has the government turned it's arms on unarmed civilians

Let's see:

Kent State, Jackson State, Ruby Ridge, Waco...

severed head. i grew up right outside chicago next to dunning which became michael reese and they were letting the kookabooks as my dad would call them back out into circulation in the mid 70's. way before reagans time in office.i'm not a reagan lover , nor a democrat or republican. i think both parties suck.this is fact.... aclu lawyers and bleeding hearts destroyed instead of trying to repair our mental health system in this country.let em go as long as i don't have to by them was and is their attitude.the system was tired of paying for the majority of them. they let'em loose on the public , theres too many of 'em.