I choke up when I think of the agony the parents and siblings and friends are going through, not knowing if the worst has happened. And the longer the wait, the worse the odds.

My cousin was gunned down in a robbery some decades ago and this bought back some bad memories. It's also been a year since the mass shooting in Norway. A lot of people are feeling renewed pain.

I heard Obama and Romney set aside campaigning for the day and that was the decent thing to do. More people should respect that position and set aside blame and bickering for now. The right thing to do is offer up sympathies and forego the blame for a later date.

I do not understand why it is taking so long to identify all of the victims. It should be a pretty straight forward thing to do. Having some confusion early this morning in the immediate aftermath is understandable with so many people hurt and them being sent to a number of different hospitals. However, at this point I would have expected them to have identified all of the people who were injured or killed in this tragedy and their families notified. There is absolutely no reason for the police to not have an electronic file with pictures of all of those who were injured or killed. The fact that there are people who still do not know the fate of their loved ones this long after the incident seems very strange and does not speak well of those managing the situation, after all they are only dealing with 59 victims, not hundreds.

Yes, I agree with JS in SD. And why on earth are there still bodies in the theatre some 18 hours later. I don't know what the heat is like in CO but in VA it would be an even more awful scene by now. I imagine the authorities want to survey the crime scene but please give the dead some dignity; remove them and ID them to their families. I hope this has been done by now for the sake of the anguished families.

There are bodies still in there, because it's a crime scene. Processing a crime scene this horrific is tedious and time-consuming. It's horribly painful for the families of the victims, but it is necessary. Bless them all.

We were living in Aurora when the 1998 Labor Day murders happened. 6 people were killed that day and at that time the worst mass murder in Aurora's history until today. Two teens in the house right across the driveway of our townhouse, 3 in a house down the street and one of the gunmen was executed in a field later that night by his accomplice. The day it happened, my husband and I arrived to find the swat team outside our home because initially they were given the wrong address. After my husband drew a floor plan of our house for them, they burst in to find no one there. My next door neighbor had witnessed the 4 people who pulled up to the house, two calmly got out of the vehicle & pulled shotguns out of the trunk and then turned to look at her daring her to do anything before walking into the house where they shot the two teens (the father of the one teen was driving home from a funeral on the East coast & arrived to find his son had been killed two days later.) Our house & the house where the shootings happened shared the same house number but had different street names. In her panic, she gave them the wrong street name. Once our house was given the all clear, I mentioned to the swat leader that maybe they should check the house across the driveway. They chose not to but came back 4 hours later and found the teens. After that, It took more than 24 hours before the bodies of our neighbors were removed from the basement as it was an ongoing investigation. One person was convicted, one is still on America's most wanted list and the 4th was never identified. I pray for the families still waiting for word on their loved ones & agree it should not take so long for them to hear whether their child is one of the victims, however more than anything, I want this SOB solidly convicted with no chance of errors because of a rush job by the crime scene unit.

I do not understand why it is taking so long to identify all of the victims.

Yes, I'm sure all of them were lined up in a row with their photo IDs in-hand. /sarc

As someone pointed out already (see comment 5.1 below), the fact that IDs may or may not be available for the victims is one, of many, issues that will frustrate efforts to ID everyone. There are many in the hospitals in various stages of health-- some may even be in comas. If they have no ID, then they are John Doe until someone identifies them, probably through fingerprints or dental records. They can't just let strangers wander in and out of intensive care wards badgering the sick and dying about where their loved ones are (or asking for exclusive rights to the scoop, pandering to act as their legal representation, etc). This is not a simple process, as much as you may wish it were. Each and every victim, living and dead, are entitled to their right to privacy. Everyone is acting in exactly the fashion they ought to be. Let the professionals handle their business.

@ruffmama,

How many of us thought we had a tough week or day or what ever. I'm sure this guy would would give anything to be in our shoes. I can't begin to comprehend his anguish.

dustoffdaughter, was this after or before Columbine? We have relatives in Aurora. Hopefully, no one they know had victims in this senseless tragedy. Where does a guy get a permit to buy 2 handguns, a rifle and an automatic weapon and not go on file? The NRA fights for gun law based on constituional rights, but our forefathers would gasp over what liberties we have taken from that. No one needs a AK47 to protect themselves. Something is wrong when the USA has one of the highest gun shootings in the world today. I, too, grieve for the families and victims of this horrible event.........I am just shaking my head and thinking, "Why do bad things happen to good people?"

"All ready democrats are calling for a total ban on guns."

Junkhunter, would you like to back that up with some news articles, press releases, anything?

GooGoo,

It was prior to Columbine. It was Sept 7, 1998 and Columbine was April 20, 1999. Sadly, I remember both days like they were yesterday. Let me just add that it happened in a nice, family neighborhood across from Overland High School and Utah park.

Parents love your children because you do not know what the world has in store for them. Step up and be good parents show them love and lead by example. My heart goes out to these innocent victims. You can never prepare for what is lurking in some peoples hearts.

A baby can sleep anywhere. So what difference does it make what time it is? Parents of babies have enough problem having a little non-baby time in their lives to enjoy a date together. A movie theatre seems OK to me. Why be so judgemental and blame the victim?

I am pretty sure I've seen Alex Williams interviewed on a tv news program today. Please pass this along to authorities.

slighty and been there, you might want to actually read what I wrote. I wasn't blaming the parents. I said they most likely never thought something like this would happen. But still that does not mean taking a child to a mid-night showing of any movie is ok. You call cranky kids whining because they are tired a fun time out? Maybe you have nice memories of that when you were 6, or maybe you were a bit older. As a parent I know how cranky little kids can get when they are up that late and tired. I wouldn't call it a fun time.

Once again, try actually reading what I post. Get it.

DTNICCo1............ Winner, Winner, chicken dinner.............. That's the same thing my co-workers and I, were thinking in your post #1.12.......... BUT ANYWAY, NOW is not the time for the PARENTING DEBATE, OR THE GUN DEBATE............ Lets pray for the souls we lost today, and for all the victim's of this crime........ AND yes, I even mean for the gunman........... He will be JUDGED ONE DAY, NOT BY YOU OR ME...... BUT BY HIS MAKER ................

Agree with the comments about Tom Sullivan, other families and friends who frantically looked for their loved ones. Tom's son, Alex, was at the theater celebrating his 27th birthday, and about 8pm tonight, the family's worst fears were confirmed. Alex died. RIP

First, I must say how sorry and disappointed I am that something like this happened. My heartfelt sympathy goes to the families, friends, and colleagues of those who were killed or injured during this senseless crime.

I believe there is a bottom line to this incident, and to similar incidents that have happened in the past; and, that would be cowardice. One might also toss in the word bully, but clearly this massacre was the act of a coward.

He picked on people who could not fight back. He selected targets who were totally innocent. He shot at people who had no way of protecting themselves. Yes, that is the work of a lowly coward.

In his mind, there must have been anger or hostility, or the need to avenge or take revenge for some perceived insult or crime against him.

Some say that he was a top quality student, and on track for major success in his life. However, something happened to derail all of that.

Only he really knows exactly how long he planned this event. More likely than not, it was not a spur of the moment detail - it probably festered with him for weeks or months.

In all probability, there will be a hew and cry to ban guns, and in all probability certain gun groups and politician will be all over that, quoting the U.S. Constitution and the right to bear arms.

What if guns were outlawed. Would it be true that only outlaws would have guns, in addition to the police and the armed forces? What if that dynamic was in place, and this creep went crazy with a machete instead?

Would we be hearing about a dozen people with their heads hacked off, and dozens of others with very serious hacking wounds caused by a machete?

Incidents like this make me question the principle of "innocent until proven guilty by a jury of one 's peers." The founding father's could not see into the future. They would not know about semi-automatic weapons, and weapons with the capacity to have multiple rounds in a clip or magazine. They did not envision mass killings and mayhem.

In the old days, a vigilante group would storm the jail, grab this prisoner, and either pitchfork him to death or hang him. However, instead of swift justice, this matter will fester and rot in the courts for many more years. Everyone connected to the case, will make sure to observe all of the political correctness niceties.

I would bet that in China, this guy would already be dead, by execution, with one bullet in the back of his head. Sometimes, the Chinese might have the right idea on how to handle matters like this.

In the meantime, I would urge all news agencies, all news sources, and all news people, to never mention this evil cretin's name again. He and his name should be shunned. Instead of using his name, it would be okay to use the term gunman or shooter, or coward. That would be like letting the air out of his balloon.

Let the police take their time gathering evidence. I think we'd all agree it would be aweful if this guy ended up being set free because of some technicality with the evidence!

How did this character, Holmes get so many guns without being checked out first.

Wouldn't the people who sold him the guns, and weaponry, ammunition be suspicious, or did he do the same thing as the Celebs obtaining illegal prescriptions of drugs; he a gun shopper at other gun stores--there must be some 'common" record on who purchases an Army's worth of Arsenal. Checks thru Computers?

If someone in the Theater did have a gun, they might have been able to stop this madman. Guns are also a self-defense weapon against an attack or murder.

It is the person behind the gun who is responsible. This was the most horrific mass murder in the US to date--

How will people feel when they go into a theater, or public place now--Paranoid. No place is safe.

The US is in trouble with so many nutcases walking the streets committing severe violence..

My condolences to all that experienced this terrible massacre, losing their loved ones--- to those who were injured, and to those who had to endure the nightmare--The Counselors will be busy with the theater goers innocently trapped in the theater, watching the Movie, Batman.--

Can anyone tell me why someone that does something like this would get a trial? There is no doubt he was the shooter, and yet he is entitled to due process? I suppose they could have gotten him confused with the other guys wearing bullet proof vests and gas masks with rifles in tow. Please tell me why time and $$ should be wasted on this? My thoughts and prayers are with all the families & friends of the deceased & injured. God bless you all

Patsy, the second amendment doesn't give anyone the right to do anything.

The way it is written, the right to bear arms is a God given right, and the second amendment puts a restriction on the government's infringement of that right.

Lots of people assume that the second amendment gives you the right to bear arms. It doesn't. It protects the right that you inherently have from being taken away.

The whole idea of including the second amendment is to protect the right of citizens (which were, effectively, all the "militia"), to have a fighting chance should their government ever become the tyranny that lead to the War of Independence in the first place. Regardless of how long ago it's written, it's still just as effective and important for the government to honor as it was back then. Just because technology has changed doesn't mean the protection has changed.

Unless some new additions have come out recently, I see nowhere in the bible where guns are mentioned.

Patsy, not affirming anything about God, just letting you know how it was written. This country has a Christian history, like it or not. If you like, you can just assume that the right is given from your "creator", whoever that may be.

And if you want to run the Jesus angle, we can, but that's a completely different argument that has nothing to do with how our founders wrote the backbone of our country.

Chris, you don't see anything in there about the Cuban Missile Crisis either.

@Brandon, Well said sir.

These anti gun people just don't get it. Colorado is a state that allows people the right to carry a concealed weapon, except they won't let you bring one into a theater. I bet the author to that provision of the law is feeling like a huge ass right now.

To all of you anti 2nd ammendment fools,

My 2nd ammendment right is protecting all of your other rights including your right to make stupid remarks.

Earlier this week a 71 year old man with a concealed weapon in Florida, shot 2 would be robbers in an internet cafe. One robber was armed with a bat while his accomplis was armed with a gun. He saved everyone in that cafe with his gun.

Brandon 2105659

I thought the same thing initially, if someone had been armed they might have stopped him. But reading your example of 10 people armed with 10 rounds each made me re-think my position. While I'm a gun owner (and very well trained) and a very strong supporter of gun owner's rights, I think 10 terrified & most likely semi-trained armed citizens opening fire in a dark theater would have caused many, many more casualties. While there are alot of situations where people being armed can & have helped, this was not one of them. Think about those 100 rounds being fired in the dark by scared people in a crowded theater and tell me that you honestly believe it would have ended better than it did. Where are they in relation to the assailant, each other & everyone else? Will they know if they're firing at the bad guy or another armed citizen? How much longer would the gunfight have gone on between the various good & bad shooters? I just don't see a scenario that ends well.

It doesn't have anything to do with what I believe. It's the mindset that contributed to the framework at the time.

That being said, do you believe that it is the government's responsibility to write a list of the rights we're allowed to have?

When you're born, do you believe that you should have no rights whatsoever, except those rights that the government allows you to have? I doubt it. It's much more believable that you're born with certain rights that no one can take away for any reason. You don't have to like it, you just have to believe that it is what it is. It's already been written, there's no point in debating what you would change.

If you make a time machine someday, make sure you stop off back then, and let them know how you feel about it. I don't think random acts of violence would trump involuntary submission to a tyrannical government.

WHEN WILL HOLLYWOOD GET IT!! You see all the crap movies and the B movies and you get sick fo them.

Now, 2012, we have the new movies that sanctify being a serial killer! Hollywood..., go blow yourself!! We want a movie that actually shows human compassion and human feeling!

Hollywood.... You used to be something special.. Now you're just old strung-out movies with crappy plots and massive explosions!.. WHAT A BUNCH OF PUNKS!! Do something good you little tools!

Ron D - you make excellent points. Bringing more guns into a darkened theater would have only increased the tragedy. Besides this shooter was garbed in bullet-proof vest/throat protector/etc. Who could have possibly been so well trained to somehow find his vulnerable spot? I'm a pacifist, a bleeding heart liberal who has never owned nor shot a gun, but this massacre had nothing to do with either. A crazed man decided to murder innocents.

May greatest sympathy to all the victims and their families and friends.

Just thinking, If you think about it, if the law allowed people to carry their ccw into a theater, the shooter may have thought twice about doing what he did because he would of been in a giant crossfire. Body armour isn't 100%. Just ask the Hollywood bank robbers. Yes they were shot with high power rifles but that was because it was at a distance and the cops had no chance of getting in close. This was a totally close in situation from the start and he wouldn't of had a chance. At close range someone easily could get a fatal head shot thru the unprotected areas with a handgun. He obviously didn't want to get shot himself because he went thru the trouble of getting suited up in body armour, picked a setting where people are not allowed to bring a ccw and then when he was done he put his weapons away in his car and waited for the cops to come and arrest him without resistance. That tells me that if he thought that if the probability of being shot was emminate then he would not have tried it in the first place. You should change your name to "Didn't think about that"

davefromdanapointca

As I said in my previous post, I'm a Marine a gun owner and strong advocate of gun owner's rights, so don't think this is coming from an "anti-gun" person.... It seems to me that he thought more than twice about it. You're right that body armour isn't 100%, but it's enough to keep the guy standing for quite a while against the most commonly carried handguns and the ammo that most people would be using. The "giant crossfire " would have also been filled with panicking bystanders, so I'm pretty sure that wouldn't end well. I doubt that the headshot would be as easy as you think, a handgun in darkness, while being shot at & with hundreds of innocent people running around in a panic, sounds like a damn tough shot to me. Lastly, your theory that if he thought he was likely to get shot he wouldn't have tried it would seem to be disputed by all of the protection he wore. It seems to me that he did indeed believe that being shot was inevitable, hence all the protective gear.

I have to disagree with anyone saying that its difficult to identify the victims. Anyone over the age of 15-16ish would most definitely have some sort of identification on them. Its ridiculous to say otherwise in this day and age. The families deserve to know IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

Has anyone on here heard the police chief in the interviews? This typical douchebag cop is one of the reasons why I despise most law enforcement officers. He needs to lose the arrogant, BS attitude and show a bit of compassion for the situation, meaning, answer the questions that are being asked, obviously not all questions can be answered at this point, but A LOT of the questions asked can most definitely be answered, but he always responds with a snide remark and acts as if NO ONE deserves to know details about the incident. Its BS!!! Everyone deserves to know, it happened to everyone, and above all, the families of the victims deserve an information update every hour. I wish so badly someone would have told him to "lose the sh** attitude super cop and provide the information that everyone has the right to know, especially the families of missing persons"..

God, I had to turn it off because I couldn't stand listening to another word come out of his ridiculous mouth.. Did anyone else notice his attitude? Did it piss any of you off like it did me?

I went to a theater yesterday with my partner. Nobody shot us. We rode the bus to a coffee house. There, on the bus, were an assorted lot of homeless people with acute symptoms of mental illness, and yet, none of them attacked us or threatened us. At the coffee house, there were the usual loners seated alone at their tables, listening to their MP3 players and tapping their toes nervously, no doubt because they suffer from social phobia. None of them hurt us or threatened us. On the way home, on the bus, were more people who were obviously among The Mentally Ill, and one of them spent about fifteen minutes chatting with us about everything from the Arizona monsoon to what he used to do for a living before he became homeless. At the bus stop, there was a familiar face-- another "mental patient" who lives in the apartment building across the street from me. He spends much of his day sitting on the bench, drinking soda and eating snacks, and again, nobody lunged at us with a weapon, hell-bent on killing us. Why is that, if The Mentally Ill are so god damn dangerous that they "should all be forced into treatment to prevent them from going ballistic on us"? Answer: Because a whopping two percent-- TWO PERCENT-- of The Mentally Ill, whether treated or untreated for their illness, are not violent or dangerous in any way, shape, or form. Compare that statistic of two percent to the general population, or the population of non-mentally-ill prisoners, and well, you might just find out how (ironically) paranoid and delusional we have become about The Mentally Ill.

Oh, and I might mention one more thing: My partner is mentally ill; she has Schizoaffective Disorder, and does not take psych meds for her condition. She prefers a more holistic approach to treatment. During the six years that I have known her, I have never seen her harm anyone, not even when she is delusional. So to those of you who are so terrified of The Mentally Ill that you would advocate forcing drugs on all of them, or even institutionalizing them, or otherwise violating their civil and human rights-- maybe you need to consider that your paranoid delusions about the tens of millions of people who fall into the category of The Mentally Ill, is itself a sign of mental illness, especially when you are willing to hurt them because you are so damn afraid that they "might" hurt you!

DTNIC01Why the hell was there a 6 yr old or an infant at a midnight showing of batman?

Unfortunately there are no longer any Drive Inns for parents to pack up their children in their pajama's, with their large paper bag of popcorn and drive off to the movie. By the time midnight came around the children were asleep and the parent had a chance to see a movie together. I am sure this is why they brought their children to a midnight showing, the children were probably asleep, at least the infant probably was, and they could sit and enjoy a movie in the theater.

I ask why in the heck are you criticizing any parent that was in the theater with their children regardless of their age. Its not the parents fault this happen, its the shooters. So lets put the blame where the blame should be.

tcola187I have to disagree with anyone saying that its difficult to identify the victims. Anyone over the age of 15-16ish would most definitely have some sort of identification on them. Its ridiculous to say otherwise in this day and age. The families deserve to know IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

Not everyone carries identification with them. And besides that, it may have not had anything to do with identification, but more to do with trying to find their nearest relative. Probably the majority of the individuals were single, living in their own place. They would have to try and track down a parent who would have possibly been living in a seperate place or city or state. Just because the news doesn't have the information for you, doesn't mean its taking a long time. Maybe the relatives have asked that the information be kept private until they can contact siblings, grandparents etc so those individuals don't have to go through more pain by hearing about it on the news or worse yet, facebook!!!

So to those of you who are so terrified of The Mentally Ill that you would advocate forcing drugs on all of them

Actually, many people would not be able to go on a daily basis without their meds. Just because your friend decides on a "holistic approach", does not mean that the numbers of people that need some sort of help with meds for their mental issues is very big.

Many people need meds to be able to keep their jobs. Anxiety, Depression, Post-traumatic Stress, etc. The problem is that most of those "homeless"people that you see would do anything to be able to get some meds, and help them to get on with their lives. The fact that they can't afford mental health is the problem. Believe me, they would rather take the meds than being in the park doing nothing.

First @ Chris from Yucaipa: Sorry for the foul language, I just get irritated when I read stiupid comments from ignorant people. It won't happen again. And the other part at the end, I stand my ground on this. To all of you who wish to take away law-abiding citizens firearms for their own personal prtection, you are no better than the predator after the prey. You think you are targeting the criminals when all you are doing is placing the victims in a small room just waiting for the gunman.

Second @ Ron D: I respect your comment and your service to our country to help defend our rights and freedom. But about your reply, I think it could have helped. I understand that most CCDW carriers are semi-trained and most should practice more.

I was at a theater that night, LEGALLY ARMED, (not in Colorado), and it's not totally dark with a 20' screen lit up. I could see everyone in the theater pretty well and it was a fairly large room. Also, I don't believe people would have a hard time shooting the only person walking the isles with an AR15. It was said that he used a S&W semi-auto rifle so I will assume its an AR15. It's not hard to mistake the sight or sound of one so that would be the target. If a would be attacker would've came into the theater room I was attending I wouldn't have felt like it was too dark to make a clear shot. Also, since people naturally run from danger I figure the area around him would've been clear of bystanders. I know this all assumptions because none of us were there, but I feel much better when I have my pistol with me. It's a peace-of-mind knowing that I have it if I need it, but I hope I don't have to use it.

Also for anyone who asks, the state I live in doesn't prohibit concealed carry in theaters. Only government offices and schools are off limits, (which is stupid), criminals can go ANYWHERE, but law-abiding, armed citizens that could protect innocent children can't carry on school grounds.... really. Smart choice.

And the thing about "times changing and we changed with it, and taking guns from everyone", well there's too many guns and people who want to keep them to try that now. That would cause another Civil War between the people and the government, here's why.................

It's in the Constitution that the people can overthrow the government if necessary. It pays to do a little research and learn about our county's history and have a little common sense too.

Again, my deepest sympathy for those affected by this tragedy. Learn from it, don't attack the good guys.

DTNIC01Why the hell was there a 6 yr old or an infant at a midnight showing of batman?

Let's just easily put this one to bed: Because there "ain't nothing wrong" with it. Period.

JS said:

I do not understand why it is taking so long to identify all of the victims.

If gunfire erupted in a movie theater I was in, my first inclination is not to grab for my purse/backpack/ID but to simply run. Who cares about a piece of paper or plastic when lives are on the line? Added to that, there were people who were shot in the head--that could make a mess of someone's face and render id difficult. Many of those injured were rushed into Emergency surgery--is someone going to stop an EMT to say "wait, before you take that one to the hospital we have to take a picture so we can identify them later?"

(And while we're at it...The President was informed about this at 5AM yesterday morning by Homeland Security. I heard about it nearly three hours before. It boggles the mind that we knew there'd been a shooting before the President even knew.)

There will be time enough later to analyze law enforcement response to the tragedy. Time enough later to point fingers, assign blame, say this should have been done, that should have been done. For now, let's just keep victims and families in mind and hope for a speedy recovery--and thank Law enforcement for their efforts, because while we may think that they aren't proceeding the way we think they should, it is better than having no law enforcement at all!

whistleberries said:

In the meantime, I would urge all news agencies, all news sources, and all news people, to never mention this evil cretin's name again.

In a nation of 312 million people, do you think there might be more than one person named James/Jim Holmes? Press could hardly avoid mentioning his name. In the weeks and months to come, his every move, every email account, every facebook/twitter post is going to be examined, reexamined, and commented on. You could hardly avoid mentioning his name again, and even if you did, not to mention his name, identifying him by an adjectival moniker, you risk the fact that he will be forgotten, and in order to learn from this, one needs to remember.

IRespond said:

There are as many guns in the US as there are people. How many people can be killed with one gun? Why is the selling of those rifles allowed in "sports" stores?

Are those weapons really used for "sports"? Nobody in either side, Republican or Democrat want to touch the sacred subject of gun control, for the fear of losing your precious votes. Instead, people are dying from rampant selling of guns, all the way from the North States to South of the Border.

Actually, back toward the beginning of his administration, President Obama tried to introduce a bill that would require dealers to register sales of multiple assault rifles and other similar heavy armament(handguns were exempt) to an individual or in a single transaction. Because it came out that people on our side of the border were walking into gunshops and making bulk purchases of (for example) 12 hunting rifles at one time, taking them home, taking them apart, sneaking the parts across the border in exchange for drugs or money, where they were then used to shoot at border patrol or kill innocents. In a documentary I saw on TV, a reporter asked a gun dealer in El Paso if he thought it was a good idea, and the dealer said no, it wasn't, it would cut into his profits if he had to report 'bulk purchases' of heavy weaponry--people wouldn't buy from him in bulk if they knew he had to report it, they'd go somewhere else to get those rifles. When asked if he was at all concerned that the Bushmaster he sold today might be used to shoot Border Patrol officer or a child in Mexico the next day, the dealer shrugged and said it wasn't his problem.

The NRA lobbied against passing that bill, and it was shot down. Honestly, I thought it was a good idea. I have a gun (an inheritance--my Dad's 1968 S&W model 39, first 9mm manufactured in the States since 9mils became popular in Nam--Dad was a Vietnam and Korean War vet) and I can honestly say I've never felt the need to use it or take it out or even to see if it still fires--and I live in a neighborhood with five different gangs! The one time someone tried to break in I met the would-be burglar at the door and encouraged him to wait for the cops with my sword!

ZfromAZ said:

When you're born, do you believe that you should have no rights whatsoever, except those rights that the government allows you to have? I doubt it. It's much more believable that you're born with certain rights that no one can take away for any reason. You don't have to like it, you just have to believe that it is what it is. It's already been written, there's no point in debating what you would change.

And that's where you are wrong. No matter where you live, you only have the rights the government allows you to have. We like to believe that there are such things as 'inalienable human rights' but the reality is that you only have what the government allows you to have. There is a subsection of people around the world who are considered 'stateless'--the more common term is undocumented. These are people born in areas where things like birth certificates aren't automatic; in industrialized countries, the undocumented are mostly children who have been abandoned with no documentation. These stateless/undocumented individuals are vulnerable because they have no rights anywhere, are under no one's jurisdiction, don't exist on paper so they aren't potected under any laws.

And I know this because I was undocumented; I was abandoned as an infant with no birth certificate. Though I was legally adopted (internnationally) later, my adoptive parents didn't tell me before they died, and when USCIS found out they' lost/misplaced/misfiled my adoption paper and I couldn't give them a copy because I didn't know, they decided that made me illegal and placed me in deportation. Since I was undocumented and there was no 'home country' to deport me to, I was told I'd remain in detention indefinitely until I provided them with a copy of my adoption paper. In the meantime, as an 'illegal' (ICE doesn't make the distinction between 'illegal' and 'undocumented', and most Americans don't either) I had no rights. Inadequate food and clothing, sleep deprivation, unsanitary conditions, physical and sexual abuse were rampant in the deportation camp but none of it was illegal because, being undocumented and a citizen of nowhere, I had no rights, not even those 'inalienable human rights' our founding fathers spoke of in the Constitution.

There's a piece of legislation currently coming up through Congress called the Enemy Expatriaton Act that will allow the US government to strip you of your US citizenship if you are suspected of acting or encouraging any act that runs counter to the US interests or the interests of any of its allies. (Note it says 'suspected', the government does not have to prove it, no charges and no trial is needed.) If you're naturalized, you'll be deported to the country you came from; if you are a natural born citizen, you'll be held, per the NDAA for FY2012 that was signed into law on December 31, 2011, in indefinite detention without charge or trial in a military prison (like Guantanamo) as a 'illegal terrorist' until the War On Terror is over.

So yes. The only rights you have are the ones the government allows you to have.

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A FRIEND AND CANNOT REACH THEM - BEST INFO I HAVE AT THE MOMENT

I have been frantically trying to reach a friend who lives in or near Aurora - Jason Page, married, age 39.

Hospitals who have patients:

(720) 848-0500

(720) 777-1234 Children's Hosp. admits people up to 31 years of age, I think they have a comprehensive list

(303) 436-6000

(303) 788-5000

Uninjured survivors were taken to a High School to be interviewed by the Police, they are NOT allowed to turn their cell phones on but if you can get through, (I haven't been able to yet), they will tell you if the person you are looking for is there, that number is (303) 739-1862

What a tragedy for so many people...and hard on those of us waiting to hear about friends.

JS in SD

I do not understand why it is taking so long to identify all of the victims. It should be a pretty straight forward thing to do. Having some confusion early this morning in the immediate aftermath is understandable with so many people hurt and them being sent to a number of different hospitals. However, at this point I would have expected them to have identified all of the people who were injured or killed in this tragedy and their families notified. There is absolutely no reason for the police to not have an electronic file with pictures of all of those who were injured or killed. The fact that there are people who still do not know the fate of their loved ones this long after the incident seems very strange and does not speak well of those managing the situation, after all they are only dealing with 59 victims, not hundreds.

Maybe, just maybe the police or law-enforcement officers are being considerate to the families of victims by allowing professionals to alert these families about this tragedy. Rather than offering out a list of the names of victims to the Megaphone Mouth media (like MSNBC) who feed off of, and are are always eager to print-out this kind of stuff in the front page, so that they can feed the curious weirdo's who are overly-eager to read about someone else's problems. And maybe, just maybe it's better to have a professional explain this kind of tragedy to the families, rather than have someone who might know them, call them to tell them how bad they feeeeeeeel for them.

It's weirdo's (like you) who help to boost the ratings of the Megaphone Mouth media, which in turn brings in their advertisers, which in turn puts money in their pockets. Imagine that, making money by feeding off of, a dead carcass, and making money off of someone else's WORSE NIGHTMARE, so that freaks can read about, make comments about and argue about someone's personal loss. While the Megamouth gets rich off of it.

Enjoy your read SD.

Angers me that this person would shoot innocent people, killing children and young people, injuring many.
To adorn himself in a costume to act out a fantasy to harm others is a cruel act of self indulgence.
He should be responsible for this horrific act, and for booby trapping the apartment.
Makes one wonder what else he has done to others in his past.
His mother didn't seem too surprised by her response.

Puzzles me why there isn't more accounting/reporting to law enforcements of those who purchase arms and ammunitions.
Why is there not an "Alert" system in place nationally? Is that considered too much governmental interference?
The DEA tracks who purchase certain pain killers. One has to sign for certain drugs, it goes into a data base.
If there's any discrepancies, patterns, an alert is activated.

May all those who have been injured and lost loved ones, be comforted.
May you find peace and healing during these desparate times.
Many pray for your well being, you are lifted up to Christ.
May you find strength while grieving over this senseless act of cruelty.
Remember, you are not alone.
There are many who care about you.

God did not create this mess.
The ugliness of a fallen world did.

after all they are only dealing with 59 victims, not hundreds.

JD - they are dealing with hundreds, 3 packed showings of the movie, just because a person walked out of that theater does not mean they are not a victim - they are being processed at a High School, so the police have a better idea of what happened and who was were, etc.... they are dealing with many more people than the dead and physically wounded.

I have to agree with Duphus on this one.

Amanda, your comment was very well thought out and written. Clearly your struggles have made you stronger and wiser.

There is hope in your story for others who are similarly disenfranchised.

OK, this may sound weird;

RIGHT BEFORE HE STARTED SHOOTING, there are two witnesses who saw him answer his cell phone, talk for a few seconds, calmly put his phone in his pocket, and then walked in and started shooting, almost like he was programmed, no mention so far in any news about this, but I have this on good source; something strange is going on!

GHOST-1325176, #1.18- Please, absolutely no offense intended, I BEG to differ with you on a "perspective", not the actual content of your speech in your post. Also, it's a gorgeous Saturday Summer Morning where I am, about to soon be picked up to go along with my Daughter and 2 small Grandchildren for a picnic at a little Kids' wading pool and this may very well be my only opportunity to also get a "peep" out before LIFE going on and not being able to return to this subject which is right now at "raw" perspective.

I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you about NOW, if not also ever (as to my perspective) not being the time for "debate" on who was at the Movie Theater and whether or not they should have been there, because it is "irrelevant" to anything, either now or later; BUT, (and I did warn you that it was coming :), I do also believe and know, to my perspective, that "Judgment by one's Maker", as another "debate" is also irrelevant to the here, the now and the later; and to me, only continues to distract from the one and only "Relevancy", as to evidentiary "debate" to and of Societal mores here and that is the tangible, central and "undeniably" arguable and debate-able issue of "GUNS" and access to GUNS, and as of there being "no better time than the present" for the speaking out against, by whomever would, by not just what would immediately be classified to be "a-non-PC-peep" here and there. Sentimentalities, Sympathies and Condolences all go without saying as a relevantly "raw" perspective, here; UNFORTUNATELY, what also "literally-goes-without-saying" (goes away) is the only "Relevant", undeniable, central issue.....GUNS and the sanctified hideous misuse and AB-USE of them by purposefully hideously misrepresented and misdirected "sanctified access" to them. period

Not the time? UNDENIABLY, Anger and need to speak out about that ANGER (not sanctified and minimized to only be called frustration) IS also a part of the 5 stage grieving process. AND IN NO PRESCRIBED ORDER, before the 5th and final stage, which is "acceptance". HAS AMERICA REALLY ACCEPTED that what has happened here, AGAIN, is ACCEPTABLE????????????? This IS NOT just another TRAGEDY! IT'S ANOTHER SANCTIFIED MASSACRE in the United States of America, INC.

Saxon I will make a comment relating to your post. But first my heartfelt sympathies to the familes.

I served 20 years in the military, retired and I felt it was important to defend our Constitutional rights to include the Second Amendment. I feel very strongly about this. There are many here who advocate a ban on guns and so forth but I support that amendment just like all the other rights listed in our Constitution. I don't think that any gunners would like to see their rights of free speech eliminated. I think that many liberals cherry pick those things they don't like and push for their elimination. The Constitution is not something one cherry picks. It's there, it's written, live with it.

Now saxon I heard the same comment elsewhere. The shooter's demeanor and calmness are not normal in a situation like this. There is way more to this story than meets the eye way more under the surface it's almost like he was trained and coached and programed. In a situation like that the shooter's adrenaline would be at a very high level something is way wrong and off. Repeated reports state the shooter was totally calm like he was on a beta blocker.

Something is quite murky about this incident. I would like to add that the CIA was into drug experiments in the 50s; the US Army did drug experiments as well as docucumented by CNN. Was this a carefully planned event? By who? Something is not right about this.

Warner Brothers has decided to allow the screenings for the movie to go on, albeit with heightened security at movie theaters to prevent a copycat scenario, and the Paris premiere for tonight has been nixed. I wish the premiere had been allowed to go on, and the money gained from it donated to the victims.

I think that part of the proceeds from ticket sales should go to a victims fund, to help with funeral costs for the deceased, help with medical costs for those physically injured, and counseling for those who escaped physical injury but will suffer emotionally and mentally for years to come.

Yes, I realize it is NOT the movie producers' fault, that they are not in the strictest sense responsible, but as fellow human beings who (hopefully) put other human lives ahead of profits, I feel it is the right thing to do. The actors who give so much to charities--this would be the greatest charity these people could ask for right now, after all, they paid for tickets to see the move that cost them their lives. This will be a 'refund' so to speak, with (human) interest.

Does anybody else feel this would be the right thing to do?

what happened to 'turn the other cheek'? was Jesus being subversive, or has his message been rewritten to conform to the 2d amendment? the Constitution was written, according to itself, to form a more perfect union. more perfect certainly does not mean that it was perfect at the time it was written. last time i checked, it was nigh unto impossible to read anyone elses' mind, and i would imagine that would apply to plumbing the original intent of the founding fathers 225 years after that intent was formulated (except for Scalia of course). or maybe Christianity in America has just been watered down to Scalia's meet Mr Justice Scalia's determination of what Jesus' intent was in his admonition to turn the other cheek some 2,000 years ago. the whole idea of 'original intent' binding us is simply a ploy used by it's proponents to avoid responsibility for their determinations, in the face of the ideas of self-government -- that the people have the duty to form a more perfect union. ditto the impingment of states' rights argument. the Constitution was written in part to curtail states' rights. state supremacy wasn't working under the articles of confederation. ditto that pernicious argument that the commerce clause has been abused to create law which is unconstitutional. The Constitution was written to curtail state power in matters involving interstate commerce, so that it, commerce, could flourish in the face of satraps trying to make money at every turnstyle. indeed the 2d amendment is not the keystone provision of a contract of adhesion which limits and restricts all other provisions of the Constitution and the idea of self government.

toyrslfbtrue: Yes, I agree with JS in SD. And why on earth are there still bodies in the theatre some 18 hours later. I don't know what the heat is like in CO but in VA it would be an even more awful scene by now. I imagine the authorities want to survey the crime scene but please give the dead some dignity; remove them and ID them to their families. I hope this has been done by now for the sake of the anguished families.

Few people understand all the aspects and technicalities of a crime scene. A homicide scene, multiply those aspects by a factor of 10, at least.

Many are calling for the suspect's head, or at least 20 life sentences. The best way to guarantee this guy would WALK AWAY free would be to rush through the crime scene in order to get the bodies out quickly. Sorry you don't like the way it's handled, but it's absolutely necessary.

Also Bernitch, regardless of how many people won't like the way this sounds, that while the suspect is responsible for all the deaths, they need to know how many were killed directly by him, and how many were killed by people stampeding them to death. Many have already admitted to stomping on others on the ground.

@ GOOGOO

1) Where does a guy get a permit to buy 2 handguns, a rifle and an automatic weapon and not go on file?

2) The NRA fights for gun law based on constituional rights, but our forefathers would gasp over what liberties we have taken from that. No one needs a AK47 to protect themselves.

3) Something is wrong when the USA has one of the highest gun shootings in the world today.

4) I, too, grieve for the families and victims of this horrible event.........I am just shaking my head and thinking, "Why do bad things happen to good people?"

1) If one lives in a free country(state), one does not need permits. I live in Kansas and I could legally purchase 10 handguns at one time if I had the money and passed the ATF background check. But I could not purchase an automatic weapon aka a machine gun, without paying a transfer tax($200+the cost of the gun {approx $20K for a cheap one) and registering it with the FBI. (and the 1934 gun act that created this restriction, i.e. infringement is technically unconstitutional, but what are your going to do with people who can't read a piece of paper, or understand history, i.e. the SCOTUS)

LET ME EXPLAIN (if it has not been done so further up in the comments) TO YOU DOPE SMOKIN' HIPPY LIBERALS.

AN "ASSAULT RIFLE" IS BY DEFINITION "BASED ON A CARTRIDGE OF MEDIUM POWER, (more than a pistol, less than a rifle) AND IS CAPABLE OF AUTOMATIC FIRE.

THE AR15 THIS GUY USED IS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE, IT IS NOT CAPABLE OF AUTOMATIC FIRE, IT IS SEMI-AUTOMATIC ONLY!!!. IT IS WHAT IS CALLED AN "assault style" RIFLE simply because it LOOKS like one, just like an actor playing a Doctor on TV. It looks and sound like one, but I would want it performing surgery on me.

And one more thing, it seems that the tighter the gun controls the higher the crime rate. Witness Chicago, Detroit and Oakland.
Also: Wikipedia - Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England 1999,

2) You are absolutely correct when you say "but our forefathers would gasp over what liberties we have taken from that" but not for the reason you think. You evidently don't understand the US Constitution. The 2nd amendment is their to protect me and you from our government. "To keep and bear arms" is not to carry guns for hunting, it is to bring revolution against tyranny and usurpers. (To paraphrase Jefferson) According to the Constitution, and our founding fathers, I have the right to own(if I can afford it) anything in the Military's arsenal up to and in including Atomic weapons. (granted the last is a bit extreme) And while I'm on the soap box, and according the Kansas State Constitution (and several others) "A standing army in time of peace is a danger to liberty and shall not be tolerated" WE are not at war or at least not a declared war, How is it we still have a standing army? (Author's note: I fully understand the need for a professional army today given the technical demands and training, and I fully support our military (although not always the CIC) but we should amend our Constitutions to reflect the changing society. (and to wit - abortion, ACA, etc.)

3) And you are absolutely correct, something is wrong. And it is very easy to see: No fault divorce, abortion, welfare, Social Security, Medicaid, EEOC (w/ Affirmative Action), i.e. NO CONSEQUENCES, SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT, and an ARTIFICIAL PERCEPTION OF FAIRNESS.

What happens when you deny or something impedes a undisciplined, spoiled, or unruly child? They throw a temper tantrum, (OK in PC terms, they act out)

I blame no one but the shooter here. It is he alone, who is responsible, not the gun maker, not the movie maker, (however, the theater, in denying Conceal Carry on premises, should be held liable. {By denying me the opportunity for people to defend themselves, the theater accepted 100% responsibility of their patrons}

4) DITTO, (and no I don't listen to Rush, he is after all only an entertainer)

Bob people must read the 2nd amendment in its entirety. It does not grant unfettered rights to gun owners at all. It only limits the federal government from limiting gun ownership rights to WELL FORMED MILITIAS The wing-nut interpretation exists because they can't read.

Farmboy, the Constitution does not grant any rights, it limits federal government intrusion. The 2nd amendment does not grant anyone to rights of gun ownership. It limits the federal governments right to dictate laws to WELL FORMED MILITIAS only.

I'm so sorry to hear that a 6 year old girl was among the victims.

This morning some defense lawyer was speculating that the punk who did this could possibly enter an insanity plea and be institutionalized rather than face the death penalty. Now that a small child is among the victims, I think that lessens the chance of a jury buying such a defense. Anybody who kills children deserves all the hell they can get.

Prayers and sympathies for the victims' families, and prayers for the injured as well.

Wait a minute here. There was a shooting in a theater by a guy who legally bought and owned an assault rifle, among other weapons. And some of you think having even MORE legal guns in there could have prevented this tragedy???

WTF is wrong with you? If there were ten other guns in that theater, all it would do is increase the chance of violence by ten. Period. I understand where you're coming from, but you are assuming that those ten other guns are held in the hands of experienced, rational shooters. There is NO gurantee of that at all. If upstanding citizens with the proper marksmanship and safety training were there with firearms, chances are they would be negated by twice as many idiots with guns...legally. It could have turned into the OK Corral in there for no good reason whatsoever. People hearing gunshots, seeing someone with a weapon out, and firing. "Oops, he was actually a good guy, shooting at the real perp. Now he's dead. My bad, so sorry."

Please use your heads. As far as I'm concerned, if you advocate for more weapons in a movie theater, particularly after this incident, you should not be allowed to own any firearms AT ALL. I mean that attitude is simply and plainly IGNORANT. Seriously. NRA be damned.

Not sure how I managed to do that, but I apologize for the duplication of the comment.

Let the police take their time gathering evidence. I think we'd all agree it would be aweful if this guy ended up being set free because of some technicality with the evidence!

Set him free, please !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Squid, before you go back to the ocean, you had better read this. You are totally wrong.

First of ALL, this is all off topic and I was just trying to clarify a couple issues I had, and answer the question raised by GOOGOO.

Again, I wish to offer my sincerest sympathies and condolences to those affected by this horrific event.

I would question, {given what I have seen (which is little, as I no longer subsidize the Anti-American propaganda machine, That they call Hollywood, by going to movie theaters) of the other "Dark Knight" movies, "What was a six year old girl doing at this event?" Personally, I find it a bit inappropriate, and perhaps a sign of "What's wrong in this country", but that's just me.

@ Squidword,

1)"Farmboy, the Constitution does not grant any rights, it limits federal government intrusion. 2) The 2nd amendment does not grant anyone to rights of gun ownership. 3)It limits the federal governments right to dictate laws to WELL 4)FORMED MILITIAS only."

1) You are absolutely correct, the US Constitution's only purpose is to spell out the Federal Governments LIMITED POWER and how far it can intrude on personal freedoms and rights endowed by your creator. (whom ever that is)

2) You have evidently been drinking the Kool Aid. If you read the history behind the constitution, quotes from the people that actually wrote the Document, stories from the time period, or maybe even the "Anti-Federalist Papers", perhaps even your own State Constitution, And given the context that all the Amendments in the Bill of Rights are individual rights, one might conclude that the 2nd Amendment is after all defining my right to buy and use ARMS, not just rifle, shotguns and pistols.

3) According to the Kansas State Constitution: "The militia shall be composed of all able-bodied male citizens between the ages of twenty-one and forty-five years, except such as are exempted by the laws..." I AM THE MILITIA, a Minute Man if you will. If you understand history and not the Politically Corrected version.

4) And it is "A well regulated Militia", which in those days meant "to meet regularly, well trained, etc." Not restricted, governed or controlled, that applies to a standing Army.

1.13

@slightlyoldDTNI,

"I went everywhere with my parents, no matter where. In bygone days, children roamed the fields all day when they were not working with dangerous machines. You can only hope that come tomorrow you have your family. Sometimes you don't."

Yes, but my parents would have never let me see a PG-13 movie at age six or even 9 or 10, even though I operated heavy and dangerous machinery, (My brothers and I was trained on how to operate it safely, and never had an accident requiring more than an ice pack or couple of stitches)

OK. Can we just shoot this guy now? He's obviously a monster. He shot and killed a six year old kid! For what? The thrill? It's obvious he did it. So just shoot the P.O.S. or hang him then shoot him! hang him up and have pinata party! There is NO reforming some one this sick!

Where do I get to reply to a post way back there?

The Enemy Expatriation Act was introduced in the House of Reps. on Oct. 11, 2011 by Rep. Charles Dent. R-Pa.

"to add in engaging in or supporting hostilities ( as in any conflict subject to the laws of war) against the US to the list of acts for which US Nationals would lose their Nationality"!!

It was referred to Committee and is still there. It has been given a 3% chance of passing a full vote of the House of Representatives. In other words Amanda, it is a long way from ever becoming law. So relax. If you can.

@ 1.72 aquatone

Wait a minute here. There was a shooting in a theater by a guy who legally bought and owned an 1)assault rifle, among other weapons. And some of you think having even MORE legal guns in there could have prevented this tragedy???

WTF is wrong with you? 2) If there were ten other guns in that theater, all it would do is increase the chance of violence by ten. Period. I understand where you're coming from, but you are assuming that those ten other guns are held in the hands of experienced, rational shooters. There is NO gurantee of that at all. If upstanding citizens with the proper marksmanship and safety training were there with firearms, chances are they would be negated by twice as many idiots with guns...legally. 3) It could have turned into the OK Corral in there for no good reason whatsoever. People hearing gunshots, seeing someone with a weapon out, and firing. "Oops, he was actually a good guy, shooting at the real perp. Now he's dead. My bad, so sorry."

4) Please use your heads. As far as I'm concerned, if you advocate for more weapons in a movie theater, particularly after this incident, you should not be allowed to own any firearms AT ALL. I mean that attitude is simply and plainly IGNORANT. Seriously. NRA be damned.

1) Evidently you failed to read the post at 1.68, or perhaps you fail to comprehend the English language as is a common problem among liberals.

2) I have to take exception to your math at this point, one would have to assume, from your logic then that having 20 police officers with guns would increase violence by 20, that is more guns equal more violence. My point is, from my experience and my knowledge, the gun owners I know are as responsible or maybe even more so, than some police officers. I fail to understand, why it is that you people believe that by putting on a uniform some how makes an individual better than some one without it. "Well it the training", maybe for some. But I have known some sheriff's deputies and officers that are just down right scary. OK.

Also you are assuming that the typical gun owner is NOT AN EXPERIENCED, RATIONAL SHOOTER. Quite the contrary, every Conceal Carry has to (at least in Kansas) pass something of a test and have some training. And, if they are like me, which most of them are, they train with their guns regularly. And as with most gun owners, they are also hunters, they identify the correct target before firing. (Also, not say they aren't human and make mistakes.)

3) And it could have ended before it got started. We will never know.

And riddle me this Aquatone, since 9-11, how many successful hi-jackings have occurred? How many would be hi-jackers/ terrorist have been severely beaten by the passengers? To wit, the people have learned to fight back and not do what the nice criminal tells them. Had the US adopted the practice of denying the hi-jackers in the 1970's and telling the passengers to rise up instead of sit down, maybe there would have been no more hi-jackings.

4) And I do use my head, for more than a hat rack and a knee jerk reaction. And I did it all without swearing.

Piers Morgan said -no, today is not the time to talk about gun control. The time to talk about it was before this shooting.

@DumbFarmBoy----Do you really thing the authors of the Constitution were that bright? Some of the signers couldn't even write. We have the highest murder rate of any "civilized" nation. Conflict resolution is at the end of a gun barrel, as opposed to give and take.

While you profess that the NRA is a lobby protecting the rights of gun owners, it's well known that they are no more than a marketing arm for gun makers. We keep having these National tragedies by "law abiding gun owners." If you people put your guns in a forgery and make monuments to all those that have died by guns, they would finally have a meaningful use.

Thanks for being a shill for the evil side of our society.

I agree we should take all the guns away, cause i know for certain after we do that the violence will just cease to exist... everyone knows there was no violence before we had guns. Oh after they do finally take away the guns we need to take away baseball bats as well. So lets get rid of baseball. Sport are too agressive anyways.

And as far as you wise folks saying we should blame God for not protecting all his children. Interesting, your probably right. I am sure those who agree follow thier children around everywhere they go even after they turn 18 and leave the house.... and if you tell me you dont.. and if your child has ever gotten hurt in any way then YOU obviously dont love them, and they in turn should have nothing to do with you. Just like you want nothing to do with a God who lets his children get hurt.

I love the lack of thinking the majority of people on this planet do. This news doesnt shock me when people think the answer is taking away a tool to get a purpose done will simply eliminate all agression or crime. I am not even sure why i wasted time posting this. It's not like most of you will understand logic.

The violence will NOT cease to exist because the criminals will ALWAYS figure out a way to get guns in the black market. Law abiding citizens should not be punished because out of millions of people there are several who are mentally deranged and should be institutionalized.

I am so sorry for all the people who were killed in this insanity. I find it incomprehensible.

alfred Newman said:

The Enemy Expatriation Act was introduced in the House of Reps. on Oct. 11, 2011 by Rep. Charles Dent. R-Pa.

"to add in engaging in or supporting hostilities ( as in any conflict subject to the laws of war) against the US to the list of acts for which US Nationals would lose their Nationality"!!

It was referred to Committee and is still there. It has been given a 3% chance of passing a full vote of the House of Representatives. In other words Amanda, it is a long way from ever becoming law. So relax. If you can.

Actually, if you read under it, section 2 of the EEA makes changes to Section 349 of US code 1481, and Section 351 of 1483:

Sec. 2. Loss Of Nationality

(A) in each of paragraphs (1) through (6), by striking ‘or’ at the end;

(B) in paragraph (7), by striking the period at the end and inserting ‘; or’; and

(C) by adding at the end the following:

(1) in subsection (a)--

‘(8) engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States.’; and

(2) by adding at the end the following:

(a) In General- Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481) is amended--

‘(c) For purposes of this section, the term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war.’.

(b) Technical Amendment- Section 351(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1483(a)) is amended by striking ‘(6) and (7)’ and inserting ‘(6), (7), and (8)’.

Here is section 349 of US code 1481. I have made the changes to this section of code according to the terms of the EEA:

Sec. 349. [8 U.S.C. 1481]

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality-


(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if


(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or

(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

(4) (A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or

(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or

(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, United States Code, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, United States Code, or violating section 2384 of said title by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. or

(8) engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States.’; and

(c) For purposes of this section, the term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war.

(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after the enactment of this subsection under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.

Here is section 351 of US code 1483:

Sec. 351. [8 U.S.C. 1483]


(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (6) and (7) (6) and (7) and (8) of section 349(a) of this title, no national of the United States can lose United States nationality under this Act while within the United States or any of its outlying possessions, but loss of nationality shall result from the performance within the United States or any of its outlying possessions of any of the acts or the fulfillment of any of the conditions specified in this chapter if and when the national thereafter takes up a residence outside the United States and its outlying possessions.


(b) A national who within six months after attaining the age of eighteen years asserts his claim to United States nationality, in such manner as the Secretary of State shall by regulation prescribe, shall not be deemed to have lost United States nationality by the commission, prior to his eighteenth birthday, of any of the acts specified in paragraphs (3) and (5) of section 349(a) of this title.

Then you go back and look at paragraph 7 of Sec. 349. [8 U.S.C. 1481] and you see other articles in US code referenced there, so you have to dig a little more to find those referenced articles:

section 2383 of title 18, United States Code
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

section 2384 of title 18, United States Code
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

Section 2385 of title 18 United States Code
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

This last portion of text is most important because in sections 2383, 2384, and 2385, the penalty for those is no longer fines and imprisonment, but stripping of citizenship/naturalization. And then after you're stripped of citizenship and are classified an 'illegal terrorist' the conditions of the NDAA for FY2012 kick in; mandatory detention by the US military without charge or trial until the War On Terror is over. The controversial sections of the NDAA for FY2012, 1081-1083, were given a 9% chance to pass, and yet it did.

On the face of it, the EEA looks deceptively simple. It's only after you go and research the articles of US code (and then the corollary sections) to which the EEA makes changes do you see the big picture. And that picture is troubling.

And the final piece of the puzzle; a list of the things DHS has classified as indicators of terrorism:

Alternative media

Anarchist extremism

Animal rights extremism

Anti-abortion extremism

Anti-immigration extremism

Anti-technology extremism

Aryan prison gangs

Black bloc

Black nationalism

Black power

Black separatism

Christian Identity movement

Cuban independence extremism

Decentralized terror movement

Denial-of-service attacks

Direct action (including lawful acts of civil disobedience)

Environmental extremism

Ethnic extremism

Extremist groups

Green anarchism

Hacktivism (technology-enabled social/political activism)

Hate groups

Jewish extremism

Leaderless resistance

Left-wing extremism

Lone terrorists

Mexican separatists

Militia Movements (including conspiracy theorists)

Neo-Nazis

Patriot Movement

Phineas Priesthood

Primary targeting(directly supporting/funding terrorists)

Puerto Rican independence extremists

Radical Norse mysticism practitioners

Racialists

Right-wing extremists

Single-issue/multiple issue extremist groups

Skinheads whose ‘dress may include shaved head/short hair, jeans, thin suspenders, combat boots or Doc Martens and a bomber jacket’

Sovereign citizen movement

Tax resistance movement

Violent anti-war extremism

Violent religious sects (includes those who stockpile food and weapons)

White Nationalists

White Power advocates

White Supremacists

Can't believe it would be a bad thing if someone happened to nail this @!$%# in the back with a large caliber firearm. Just sayin'.

Against Union Thievery

The violence will NOT cease to exist because the criminals will ALWAYS figure out a way to get guns in the black market. Law abiding citizens should not be punished because out of millions of people there are several who are mentally deranged and should be institutionalized.

I am so sorry for all the people who were killed in this insanity. I find it incomprehensible

Was it that way before the introduction and glorification of gun ownership? I think not. Growing up, my father had a British Enfield Rifle for deer hunting. He stopped hunting so he gave away his gun when I was a child and never owned another. People weren't lugging around concealed weapons in herds like now. All of those "illegal guns" in the hands of criminals----where did they come from? If there are indeed, millions of "illegal guns" on the streets, they were legal at some point. So, who's selling firearms to criminals?

At some point, they are stolen or sold, knowing that the person is a criminal and skirting laws. I shut down every gun show in the US. I watched the way it works. I bet a friend in S Dakota that I could buy a gun with no paperwork at any gun show. 3 show in one weekend, I had the chance to buy many weapons from many vendors with zero paperwork. I also saw a fair share of Nazi memorabilia and other creepy stuff. Guns are not properly regulated and everyone should have to go through a rectal check.

Your username--"against Union Thievery" I'm "against Corporate Thievery" which is far more prevalent and damaging to the average citizen. Wake up. Less than 10% of people belong to a trade union. How bout you change that name to "I couldn't come up with a name that would resinate with anyone."

No doubt, this is senseless tragedy. But, you will find more and more of these examples of timebombs going off in the not-to-distant future. Our young people today, I find, are becoming more and more detached from reality. With their preoccupation with texting, video games, cellphones and the like, they are increasingly becoming encased in their own worlds. While mom is chatting with friends on her cellphone, and dad is surfing the Internet looking up--- whatever--- the kids are finding their own ways of passing the time. Case in point- some of our troops serving in Iraq came to grips with reality when they discovered that the situations they were in were NOT like those in a video game. Once the opposition started shooting back, they quickly realized that you cannot die and reset the game. Reality came as a big surprise to some of our troops. When they returned back home, they soon discovered the difference between killing someone in a game and killing someone for real. The evidence for this lays in their nightmares. This person in Colorado had not given any reasonable clues ahead of time that he was going to go off. But--- somewhere along the line, something happened to him which provoked this action. It would be interesting to find out what made him snap. Check out the Frontline television program on PBS--- go to the archives. Look up the one on a person named Westley Alan Dodd. He was executed for a child murder. If you watch the program, look at his photos from elementary school. One year he is smiling and happy. The next year he has a scowl on his face. No doubt something happened to him that changed his way of thinking. The same may apply to this shooter in Colorado. I am NOT defending his actions. But I am rather interested in what made him do this.

Looks like everyone had better stock up on their guns and ammo. The wild west is in full swing.

As always, the historically illiterate jump in to tell us what the founding fathers intended.

For the record, their intentions are pretty clearly cataloged in the various documents that were preserved for posterity. They wanted the citizens of the United States of America to be well-armed in the event that their government turned wholly over to tyranny. Their desire was to empower the people and give them the authority to depose their government. This is fact, it is not disputable, and is rather well-covered by the extant source documents. I encourage you to read them. The Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers are a great place to start.

The second amendment in particular assumes that the right to bear arms exists as part of the basic human right to self-defense. For example,

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; ." Samuel Adams

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence . from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." George Washington

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton The Federalist Papers at 184-8

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." Thomas Jefferson

Again, these things are a matter of record and are not disputed by any scholar with even a cursory knowledge of the constitution and its drafting. For those who wish to contend that the 2nd amendment preserves the right to bear arms only to the militia, you are incorrect and your grammatical comprehension is poor. The militia exists because the right of the people to keep and bear arms is barred from infringement by the government. It is a by-product of the right, not a prerequisite. Here's a handy link that will show you a complete and thorough breakdown of the grammar inherent to the amendment:

http://constitution.org/2ll/schol/2amd_grammar.htm

@Sandtrich

Do you really thing the authors of the Constitution were that bright? Some of the signers couldn't even write.

Name one.

As for the others who think the fact that modern firearms have a higher capacity for ammunition would have altered the opinions of the original drafters of the constitution, you would do well to realize that repeating arms were in development at that time. In fact, an early form of a fully-automatic firearm was developed as early as 1558-- well over 200 years before the constitution was drafted. (These were known as "Superposed Loads" and was a development of ammunition, rather than a wholly new firearm). Another early development was for multiple barrels to be used to fire in rapid succession, such as the "Duck Foot" pistol or the more popular double-barrel shotgun. We have examples of these sorts of firearms going back to the 1500's also. So, to be sure, the founding fathers were not only aware of the advances of firearms, but also the ongoing potential for them. Remember that at the time they drafted the constitution, a rifle-barreled musket was the assault rifle of the era. Grenades, cannons and other arms were also used and kept by the early militias.

The constitution was not drafted in a vacuum. The people that wrote it were well-versed in history and often contemplated the future-- including technological advancements (both Jefferson and Franklin were inventors and often mused about the future capabilities of mankind-- both were also staunch advocates for the 2nd amendment and the liberties it guaranteed). To suppose that they wouldn't contemplate the advancement of warfare is to suggest that they lived in a bubble of delusion wherein their time period was the culmination of mankind and that nothing would exist beyond it. That, frankly, defies belief.

Again and I reiterate, this is all off topic and I was just trying to clarify a couple issues I had, and answer the question raised by GOOGOO.

Again, I wish to offer my sincerest sympathies and condolences to those affected by this horrific event. Nor is this the time to be discussing gun control, but I will not tolerate idiots, and I have a low threshold for stupid.

#1.74 @ sandtrich " @DumbFarmBoy----Do you really 1)thing the authors of the Constitution were that bright? Some of the signers couldn't even write. 2) We have the highest murder rate of any "civilized" nation. Conflict resolution is at the end of a gun barrel, as opposed to give and take.

3) While you profess that the NRA is a lobby protecting the rights of gun owners, 4)it's well known that they are no more than a marketing arm for gun makers. We keep having these National tragedies by "law abiding gun owners." If you people put your guns in a forgery and make monuments to all those that have died by guns, they would finally have a meaningful use.

5) Thanks for being a shill for the evil side of our society. "

1) Yes, I really thinK the authors of the Constitution were that smart, and just because someone can not write does not make them stupid, just as graduating from college does not make someone smart. Some of the dumbest people I have met have PhDs, just as some of the smartest people I know never set foot on a college campus. Knowledge is not the same as intelligence. "The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and the length of time spent there in". Robert Reedy 1980

2) Check out post #1.68 bullet #3, and I try ever so hard not to be a bigot, but you may want to reference the population that is causing such a high rate of crime. The USA is not a homogenous society, like all the other "civilized" nations, we have a very high percentage of our population that descends from "uncivilized" (as one must presume they are since they are not "civilized" as pointed out by sandtrich) nations. You may call that racism or bigotry if you wish, but that is a fact. All one needs to do is look at the Educational scores the Liberals keep posting, Six of the top ten nations are in Northern Europe, Two are SE Asia (Japan and S. Korea), Australia and New Zealand. All relatively homogenous and well civilized societies, now lets visit Africa, shall we? let's visit Mexico, and South America shall we? Now, I am sure that this post will get me banned or collapsed or something, but I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

3) I do not recall professing that the NRA is doing diddly squat. I was responding to GOOGOO (post #1.9 who's original statement I included as Italicized and itemized, just as I did here) I am guessing that you inferred that I support the NRA because I didn't say I did not. Please remove your cranial region from your rectal region.

4) Well known by whom?, what are your sources? "I did not know that" Johny Carson. Perhaps it is only a well held belief by the dope smokin' hippy liberals? The last time I checked the NRA's primary goal (or mission statement and this dates back to the beginning) is gun safety, not marketing.

5) If you really want to know evil, let's take a look at the Liberal Philosophy, 72% of all black children in this country are born to single mothers. It has become this way because, the liberals have led these people to believe that is the way to salvation. You don't need a husband, or father, the government can take care of you. And for generations, the males in the black community have been taught, by example, you don't need to be responsible, just get her pregnant and leave. We don't want you to have anything at all to do with rearing this child. And now, 92% are registered Democrats. A ready made voter pool, wholly dependent on the government. To me that is pure evil.

Name one.

Only 1? OK--Button Gwinett of Georgia.

Speaking of relying on the Federalists Papers--it widely known that Hamilton wrote the vast majority and even forged Jay's and others names on his own writings. Historians, through forensic examination of the signatures show that over 75% of the "opinions" are that of one man--Hamilton. These people weren't immortal, and, by the bye, they declared themselves "Proud Liberals." At one point of your life did you not understand that it flies in the face of humanity to make legal the ownership of another human being? How about the majority--women? Those fools, exempting Franklin, just pieced together pieces of English Common Law and French philosophy--not split the damned atom. They did what I'm doing now. Do a little research. You write a well organized opinion, but the facts just aren't all there.

Button Gwinnett:

After attending The King's School, Gloucester he started his career as a merchant in England.

...

He served in the Georgia state legislature, and in 1777 he wrote the original draft of Georgia's first State Constitution.

He could write. Try again.

He could write his name beautifully, but he could not read. If you can, google the question of a list of our founding fathers could not read.

Washington, for instance, took a test to be a surveyor and the score was never released and he never became a surveyor. That man owned slaves and had to leave them behind because the Capital was a slave free setting. Jefferson was a drunk that died so in debt that all of his land, slaves, everything had to be sold to cover the debt. I'll speak of the wisdom of Ben Franklin all day long, but most were not anywhere in the area code of being scholars. They actually had to bribe low level royalty and successful merchants with massive parcels of land to get them to move here.

"Literate--educated, well-educated, well educated, well-educated, well-read, widely read, scholarly, learned, knowledgeable, lettered, cultured, cultivated,sophisticated, well-informed. antonym ignorant."

Having the ability to sign one's name is not literacy.

@sandtrich #1.97

"Speaking of relying on the Federalists Papers--" Hamilton, Madison, Jay

Perhaps I speak out of turn, and you may be referencing someone else, But I said "The Anti-Federalist Papers" which is the other side of the argument presented in the Federalist Papers. They supported the republican style of government we used to have.

"The Anti-Federalists demanded and got a promise of a Bill of Rights so that Ratification of the 1787 constitution in 1789 would not be stillborn (a political reality reluctantly recognized by the "father" of the US constitution: James Madison.) These collections are their unabridged arguments against a strong central government. "from Wikipedia"

And I would give a spit for Hamilton, Madison or Jay. Yes they were liberals, they wanted a strong central government, which is what we have today. It was SCOTUS Chief Justice Jay that started us down this slippery slope of federal government intervention at every turn.

@Sandtrich

Nothing you've said indicates that Button Gwinnett was illiterate. He was educated in England and wrote the first draft of his state's constitution. That seems to defy your assertion.

I googled your recommended search parameters. Nothing came up to suggest any of the founding fathers were illiterate. I went through the first five pages and stopped there. Here's a link. You can see for yourself that no such list appears from the google search. By all accounts, Button could do a sight more than just sign his own name.

And you like Ben Franklin, eh? Great! He was a staunch supporter for the 2nd amendment:

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the issue." [1759]

You want to live in a bubble?

Just what we all need, knee jerk reactions to a psychopath hell-bent on mayhem.

Think about that ever time you're subjected to probably unneccesary searches from TSA.

Don't get me wrong. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. It just seems that this sort of tragedy brings out the worst in people thinking that we need fundamental changes to protect ourselves.

Billie, Billie, Billie............. You may need MAMA GOVERNMENT TO TELL YOU....... WHO to believe in....... WHEN to believe in him........... WHERE to believe in him........ ( and ) HOW to believe in him........ BUT, don't Impale ME, with YOUR, GOVERNMENT KNOWS BEST IDEAS............. Government is an INSTITUTION......... MADE BY MAN........... NOT BY GOD............

Back in the 50's, 60's & 70's take a look at all the killing that was done by John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, James Arness portraying Marshal Matt Dillon. I saw a lot people shot back then, but never made me think to go out and kill and hurt people. Blame on the NRA and the Batman movie is asinine

Brandon and Z, I am a gun owner but if you pulled out a handgun against this guy you would be dead right now, he had body armour covering 90% of his body. A handgun without armour piercing amo would have only drawn attention to yourself. nevermind the innocent people you would hit with all the craziness going on. I think you guys watch to many movies. I am ok with you guys playing Rambo but I believe you should be held accountable for any innocents you hurt. My prayers go out to anyone that has been effected by this.

Actually that is quite wrong. Bullets do not simply bounce off body armor, they simply do not penetrate. On shot from a 40 cal and the shooter would likely go down, suffer a few broken ribs, and have a feeling akin to a baseball bat landing a kidney shot. He may not bleed, but that is about it.

Blame on the NRA and the Batman movie is asinine

I guess your statement is correct. We are a society that proudly sends young people to kill innocent people to the other side of the world with unprovoked wars. We have more weapons in the military alone than any other nation in the world.

You can blame it in the false pride that we must kill to feel that we are still # 1 in the world. Never mind that our youngsters are also buying drugs at a record numbers, and we have fallen to # 25 in Science and Math, compared to other nations.

Hollywood keeps the legend of the Wild West alive with so much violence. And to think that the critics that said that the Batman movie was too violent received dead threats.

Only in America!

Don't even bring CONGRESS into this. They all bicker, point fingers, lay blame on the others party. Its all about votes for their party. We will get thru this tragedy, like all of the others. 9/11 for example.

Columbine, the rampage at Mc Donalds in Texas, many others, I can't think of right at this moment.

We take away mental health facilities, and wonder why the deranged do this. I can't wait to see his parents interviewed. They must be up in arms...(no pun intended)

FORGET THE SOCIOPOLITICAL PLATFORM!

Forget the labels of red, yellow, brown, black, white, bi, gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, and whatever else we like to label ourselves and each other as. Those are intangibles, and irrelevant.

The simple fact is that people died who didn't have to. People who were minding their own business going out to see one of the most-anticipated move debuts of the year and were gunned down, had their lives end horribly, tragically, for no apparent purpose that we can see. If you have a Deity that you believe in, ask that Deity for strength, ask that Deity to help those injured, the children most of all; ask that they be healed quickly, body, mind and spirit. Step outside of yourself and your life for once and give your most sincere prayers/thoughts/wishes to the victims of this tragedy.

The person who did this is as much a victim as anyone else, the victim of a twisted mind and skewed logic that made this senseless act make sense to him. He is to be pitied; if you believe in a Deity, ask that Deity for wisdom, for tolerance, for patience and forgiveness. The person who can commit this kind of outrage is truly ill.

His family is as much a victim as those shot; they too are shocked, stunned, horrified at this senseless act of violence. Keep them in mind as well, for he was their son, their brother, cousin, nephew, maybe uncle. He was once an innocent, as the children he shot were innocent.

Keep those victims in mind; for the ones that died, hope that their passing was quick and they did not suffer. Hope that their families ill be able to celebrate the lives they lived, however long or short; that they can remember their loved ones as they were, instead of as they are. For the victims still alive, hope for a speedy recovery, for full recovery in body, mind and spirit; hope that they will not succumb to their injuries.

And lastly, hope for yourselves, your fellow man, and your nation. Never forget the horror you felt when you heard the news; remember that we are all human and we are all united in shock and horror and sadness in this one moment, and remember the unity in days to come as more details of the lives ruined bring their humanity before our eyes.

There will be plenty of time, in the days to come, to point fingers, assign blame, claim that it was this political faction or that political faction, that this was not done right, that that did not happen. For now, let us simply unite our voices in a single call for support, sympathy; support those who will need healing, and send good wishes after those who left us too young, too soon.

(As WB has elected to allow the screenings to go on, I think at least some of the proceeds from the sales of those tickets could go to a victims' fund to help those injured, funeral costs for those passed on, and to help with counseling for those who may have escaped physical harm but will suffer mentally for years.)

Fox Newser i think you need to go and watch the video of the L.A. bank robery where those guys had body armour, over a hundred Police Officers could not stop those guys until they got assault riffles from a gun store. The shots from their handguns barely slowed them bank robbers down.

Ah yes. Guns are our salvation.

And these events will continue to happen.

Patsycamoure3, don't you think the founding fathers were aware of how weapons had evolved through the ages? I like to think they were people with vision, and not so ignorant to think that single-shot muzzleloaders would be the peak of weapons technology.

Feel bad that a 6 yr. old was killed, but what was she doing at a pg13 movie?

Feel sorry for the people, BUT...... half mast? a serviceman died in Afghanistan"defending our freedoms", and a sailor died in a movie theater ........the sailor in the movie theater gets honored by half mast flags......the serviceman that died in afghanistan.....1/2 a column inch on the 8th page

If service men dieing in Afghanistan is not as important as a movie theater death, then we should not be in Afghanistan.

San Francisco has laws banning toys in Happy Meals and the rapid change magazines on assault weapons. However, the gun industry has gotten around that with bullet- changing magazines instead of finger-changing magazines. Currently they say Holmes was firing 50 rounds a minute.

I'm not even sure what station I saw it on, but on t.v. yesterday they were showing a cashier shooting back at a robber from a surveillance tape. The cashier narrowly missed a baby in it's mother's arms. Can't imagine a movie theater full of guns !

What is the purpose of 6,000 rounds ?

Because the bodies have not been ID'ed (?). Anyone can go into a room and count the number of people not moving. People should stop calling and let the authorities do their work....

Hey Mother:...This a department that has been cut to the bone....by-guess -who?

I'm sure this is on their list.

I'm with you, Mother, these other 2 guys are morons.

Well it was a midnight showing so chances are many of the dead are in the preteen-teen age range and may not have ID's on them so they would have to run finger prints or dental records to positively ID them and that can take time, it's a crappy situation but thats where technology is these days, since the government doesn't have every single persons finger prints on record (only people with arrest records and in the military would be in the fingerprint system) they aren't about to plaster up photos of the dead and say "does anyone know who this is?" it maybe a quicker way to find out but its not how things are done.

some of the dead were shot in the face. How easy do you think it is to id them? Wouldn't you want to be sure before putting a family member through that?

Rom1 - This was not a Department "cut to the bone" Within 90 seconds there were 25 police officers there and within an hour there were 125 law enforcement people there plus Home Land Security and the FBI - the response was instantaneous

An ex-FBI agent was interviewed on MSN and said this was the best response he has ever seen- like a well oiled machine

If you watched the Chief of Police's interview - this man could hardly hold back the tears and he has - as previously said a well tuned response program

I suppose Columbine - had something to do with it

Plus you have a Democrat for Governor - we do not cut our police - unlike the Southerners

On IDing...as many of them may have been women with IDs in purses, I doug they grabbed their purse as they ran in panic to avoid getting shot, or held them as they fell dead.

They had to get the injured out.

Protect the evidence

and Remove the victims after slowly and carefully documented

I go with the cops on this part.

Rom1: Hey Mother:...This a department that has been cut to the bone....by-guess -who?

Send your THANK YOU cards to Dumbya Bush for tanking this country's economy!

"frankly true" is correct. Is the police don't spend the proper amount of time painstakingly processing this Homicide Scene, they will guarantee that the suspect walks free. Homicide Scenes require the most succinct, detailed processing you can imagine, and more. Let them do their jobs and deliver the verdict this POS deserves.

Processing a mass casualty scene is not as easy as some of you may believe. There are many factors to take into account. First, police make the notification after the medical examiner has positively made an identification. So now the medical examiner and his staff, who probably handle a few deaths a day, is dealing with multiple deaths in several locations. On top of this the ME and his staff are inundated with calls from friends, relatives, law enforcement, hospitals, etc.

Because men carry their ID in their wallets they would be the easiest to initially identify. But if the person suffered facial mutilation then they have to rely on other means, such as dental records or DNA. More time.

Women typically carry their ID in purses, so in a situation like this they can easily be separated from their ID. Or worse, maybe they have more than one ID. Is the person Jane Doe 17 or Mary Smith 21? What if two casualties were both named Jane Doe? The last thing anyone wants to happen is make a false ID. It's happened before.

Also consider only ~8% of the US population have their fingerprints in the FBI database, so unless a victim has gotten into trouble in the past, or applied for a job where they had to submit their prints to be entered into a database, you're out of luck trying to ID them through prints.

This isn't even taking into account all the forensic evidence that has to be collected and processed, witnesses to be interviewed... you get the idea.

This isn't ncis on TV, this is real. You people complain all the time about police and government being to overzelous, but then later they have to prove to a jury (just like you) where every body was positioned when found. If they don't you will cry there was not enough evidence to convict. Yes, budgets where cut everywhere, but you turds still want the same level of service you see on your TV shows. How about become a volunteer at your police department and get a bit of experience to see first hand how all your "tax dollars go to waste". You'll be suprised at the all limited equipment, basic computer systems and young officers. After ten years most officers just give up and find other better paying employment.

ya right Laz (NOT) : line them up so family members can see them and perhaps ID them? are you for real? do you have any idea how horrific and sickening that sounds?

People it is a crime scene. that is why it took so long. you think they can just scoop up bodies? Do you really think all the victims had ID's on them?

My sympathies go out to all of the victims, injured and their family and friends. I can't imagine the grief.

Unlike TV shot murder victims are not always recognizable. Suppose they die of a head shot and are not recognizable?

Ok s1489198 but at least they could take photos, maybe not of the faces but of tattooes and or piercings and have family members identify them from that .LOL what is your problem. The families have my deepest sympathies for their loss but to be able to say whether their loved ones were laying in the morgue or not by photo I.D. would ease their grief somewhat don't you think? Have some sympathy for these poor people who don't know where their relatives are.!

I want to scream, "WHY????" I want to take this little piece of crap out into the middle of a parking lot and torture him to death! I want to give everyone back what was stolen from them--their lives, their health, their security, their safety. I am totally helpless to do any of it.

May the families learn the fates of their loved ones in a quick and speedy manner. For the families of the lost, please accept my heartfelt sympathy and condolences. For those injured, may you recover quickly and well.

I refuse to blame the victims, the NRA, The Constitution, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, the movies, movie/book fiction, history, or anyone else--except the shooter. It was his finger alone on the trigger. No one "made" him do this heinous crime.

We can't prevent these terrible deeds from happening, but one thing we can do is tell our loved ones how much we care about them. I tell my very adult children to "drive carefully." I know they drive carefully, but I still tell them. I don't want it to bother me in case they were in accident. I tell my grandkids how much I love them, because (heavens forbid) that anything should happen to them. I know that they know. I communicate my feelings and happy wishes for them on a regular basis because I don't want it to haunt me that maybe "they didn't fully know." Perhaps that's a bit selfish, but everyone profits. Share the love you have others, do it loudly without embarrassment or shame. In the end, that's all we really have. It's the important lesson that we need to learn about one another, and it doesn't cost us a thing.

I still want to scream, "Why?!!!!!" I don't want to hear any worn out, threadbare excuses, either.

Zapper - best post I have read - there is only one person to blame - the shooter.

I hope he goes in the general population in prison, I hope the guards are at the other end of the room, I hope he dies painfully, I know it's not a nice comment to make, it won't bring anyone back, but I can't find my friend, there are hundreds of people who are affected by what this man did - of his own accord, I'm sorry that I'm not feeling very "forgiving" today.

Zapper, I feel outrage too, Colorado has the death penalty. I hope the perp is sentenced to death, then may he spend 3 times the full life spans of his victims in torment, back to back, in real time.

s-1489198 - I was referring to patients in the hospitals who are unconscious and not able to identify themselves, NOT the deceased.

It's not a simple issue. The first priority for victims is medical attention and with such a large number of people wounded and injured, medical staff as well as police and detectives are probably stretched thin.

As far as IDs, often men carry a wallet but women carry a purse. In the chaos there most likely were a lot of purses left behind and with them a lot of phones. And in the rush to care for victims, personal items can get misplaced. There is also a privacy issue. You can't just let anyone roam from room to room. You'd have fakers, lawyers, news reporters, and in short a massive amount of people with a massive potential for abuse clogging up halls and rooms and violating the individual privacy rights of victims.

Then you have the problem of the crime scene. It is the responsibility of law enforcement to protect the crime scene so evidence can be properly gathered and investigated. And there will be more than just the charges against the assailant. There is the potential for several law suits. The courts need the crime scene handled with diligence and care because lawyers will be out to discredit anything the police do if it helps their client. The police themselves could be sued for a faulty investigation.

And finally one of the worst things to happen would be for someone to get the wrong information about their loved one. Yes it is excruciating and even maddening for them to wait. But unfortunately that is what has to happen until a positive ID can be confirmed and passed on to the family.

Does anybody know how this guy got into the movie in the first place, I thought all the Exists were suppose to be LOCKED!!!!???

He bought a ticket & entered like everyone else. Except he went out the back exit, jimmied the door so he could come back in, went to his car & got the guns before re-entering. Absolutely horrible & heartbreaking.

I understand he jimmied the back door, but around our area the theaters have employees who check the doors before the movies start, right after they start, and then right after a movie. I cannot imagine the heartache for everyone involved. The scars, mental and emotional it will cause not only the family and victims, but especially the children involved.

@gwen

Emergency exits would be woefully dangerous if they were locked. What happens if there's a fire? Legally, emergency exits must be unlocked at all times-- but only from the inside (i.e. a push release). In this instance, your question was answered in one of the other articles about this horror. The gunman bought his ticket, went inside and sat down. When the movie began to play, he used the fire exit and propped it open (so he could get back inside). Then he went to his car, strategically parked right behind the exit, and donned his gear. After that, he reentered the theater and enacted this senseless carnage.

@SprDg

Well said. As horrible as it is, everyone just needs to be patient while this investigation continues.

seen of of the 1999 massacre. Really? Don't these people proofread for goodness sake? my 8 year can spell better.

I understand that the emergency exits should remain unlicked....but they should have alarms that sound when opened to alert management.

Emergency exits should only be accessible from the inside. They should also have a small metal or plastic lock ring like a power box, and be wired to notify local management and emergency services when opened. They should also be inspected at the end of and just prior to the beginning of every show. It's not like the staff aren't in there cleaning already.

I ran a movie theater, the emergency exits frustrated me to no end. People opening the to try to sneak people in, you cannot afford to have people on each door throughout a film. And alarms would go off all the time, many leave by these other exits...You would have to have a staff member assigned to turn off alarms over and over...not to mention the complaints form theater goers as the alarms interrupted films. People do leave theaters in the middle of movies--especially bad ones. With all you have to watch for you would need so much security and it wold cost so much that you would have to raise ticket prices by over 100% (Remember the theater makes very little on the tickets, it is all about the concessions. But nightly we had to deal with talkers, people sneaking in liquor, cell phone uses, ticket thieves sneaking in, People going out with 4 stubs ad sneaking 3 others back in, theater changers seeing two fins while only paying for one. People who harass others, fights, drugs, sex, whining babies, you name it. Plus we were a heavy cash business, a possible target for robberies, so you have to make constant cash drops into a safe, Security has to be there for that. We could have used 2-3X as many security..especially since civility is down.

But remember the Studios get about 90% of the ticket proceeds the first two weeks, that is why the tickets cost so much, 90% vs a guarantee. The theaters would prefer the prices are lower, they would sell more concessions.

And it is the suborn locations that were the worst--I managed one in a city and in a suburb, give me the city location--we had a lot less problems--and NO parking lot to deal with.

Imagine a sixplex That would be 12 emergency exits to watch, plus the bathrooms (the crap that happens in there is amazing), the concessions and box office..we could use 16 security men there if there is no parking lot,add 2 more for that, You wold not pay to come if that cost was added in.

We did our best, you can help.

Don't come drunk or drugged

Sit down and shut up during the film

Leave the baby with a baby sitter

Turn off the cellphone

Dont sneak in food

Put your trash in the trash cans

Everyone will have a better experience -- simple common courtesy

Lower costs mens we could concentrate on making it even better and keep costs down

Many nights I really enjoyed it, but a first fun of a comic book movie was always hell

But I now , years later, have a hell of a collection of Movie Posters!

The thing to remember/understand is probably many of the shooting/trampled victims were not able to tell the Medical Staff who they were, which means they were "john/jane Doed" immediately by the Medical Staff in order to treat them. The Staff MUST (Federal Law) start documentation immediately i.e. order medication, get them into the OR, order blood etc.... once a patient is 'doed', they cannot be 'undoed' until there is a %100 certainty of their identity because it can/will affect their medical treatment (slowing it down). The Police are not granted access to the OR to ID these folks...they have to wait. Yes it is very frustrating for all involved!! I know this because I work with the ER every day.....Trust me when I tell you the Police and Medical were not dragging their feet! It is a painstaking process to get a positive ID on someone who is doed.....no one wants a mistake there!!! Also, if you 'undoe' a Patient too soon, places like the Lab have to start all over again with that Patient, a very time consuming issue! There are no assumptions/easy fixes made in the ER, ever! And the pure chaos as I am sure there was, slowed the process even more.It is little comfort to those waiting, but rest assured, nobody wants to give incorrect information to family members. you cannot simply walk into a ER/ICU/OR and say "o ya, that is my family member", at that point, all anyone wants is to treat them medically, get them stable medically, then ID them!!

The main concern about an emergency exit being locked from the outside is to keep punks from sneaking into the movie without paying. All of this talk about "there should be alarms when the door is opened and they should check the doors periodically" is ridiculous. There is nothing inherent about a movie theater that would make anyone think it's a prime place for a massacre and thus should have high security. Like I said, the main point of them being locked from the outside is to keep non-paying patrons out, not psychos with a car full of assault weapons.

Besides, most movie theaters are mostly employed by teenagers, do people really think they're going to be diligently checking the emergency doors all the time?

koda9 Again Wrong - the Management has been commended for getting people out - these so-called

teen-agers did a hell of a job saving lives

God help us now.............TSA screeners will be next!

It should be somebody's job to be taking pictures of tattoo's, piercings, anything identifiable about the dead, and make those available to those looking.

I'm in a holding process - waiting to hear from a friend there.... I'm comfortable that they are doing a good job in a terrible situation.

To everyone who wants a "rush" of info. right this second before ALL the information is gathered...you are wrong, it's a frustrating, horrible wait, BUT if the police botch anything, this POS could be a retrial or sit in a cushy psych ward..... give the authorities time to do it all correctly to get the shooter in Gen. Pop.

@Mother from M..

That is exactly what they did! At Gateway......As I said previously, most gunshot victims require surgery, which means EVERYBODY has to wait until the PATIENT is in post-op recovery to ID them! It is a imperfect process to a horrific situation. the Medical Staff cannot risk further injury/infection to their Patients by having people parading in and out of recovery rooms!!!!

My heart breaks for those who are greiving.....

Short answer is you can't just walk through and ID victims. Anyone you move before properly documenting them, their possessions and their surroundings discredits the investigation and could have your job on the line and the department open to criticism and law suits.

These days police departments and the number of detectives on staff are stretched thin due to budget cuts. They have trouble keeping up with day to day cases so something of this magnitude is easily overwhelming.

And how often do moderate sized cities encounter this kind of crime scene? Imagine if it was your job where you got maybe two or three murders a year and suddenly you have 10 to 12 in a theater packed with rows and rows of tightly packed seating. Bullet holes are everywhere. Personal items are strewn all over mixed with concession items. A woman's ID may be in a purse that is not next to her. Everything has to be documented in place. From an investigation standpoint it is a massive task to properly sift through everything and not corrupt or overlook evidence.

Also there will probably be several law enforcement agencies involved: city, state, federal. Each will want to do their own part of the investigation and gather their own respective evidence. It is a mind boggling task and unfortunately identifying victims is just one part of what will be a painfully slow process.

@ diegomom57,

Mr Sullivan needs to know. Have a heart.

So simply put. Thank you.

You can't just have the detectives stomping through the movie theater, which is now a crime scene, and possibly destroy evidence that can be used against the perpetrator... People need to use common sense! There are processes and protocols that must be followed. The bodies do not belong to the police department, they now belong to the medical examiner's office, who is in charge of identifying the bodies. Cut the police some slack...

guenavere

She will maybe be the next nut job to commit such a crime, she looks the part to me.

Maybe.. just maybe.. she's smiling because this person is alive and they've found that out and she's glad to be watching the reunion? I'd surely be smiling if I found out that someone I cared about has survived something horrific.

REALLY you two? Aerdran is correct...you have NO IDEA what's going on...and I highly doubt her smile has anything to do w/what you think...

I've been wondering the same thing ever since I saw this same picture plastered on every news article about the tragedy. Supposedly the girl that is smiling was inside the theater and the woman is her mother hugging her friend who was also inside during the shooting. Kinda scary that the girl can be this calm and happy after being involved with so much death and mayhem.

I believe that she is smiling because she is watching a family member reunited with a survivor.

Wow really? I hope your stupidity is rare guen and freem but probably not. Severe shock and trauma causes many reactions that are extreme, even laughter. To say this poor girl that witnessed something first hand that you can't even imagine, might be the next nut job, shows some people need to keep there mouth shut. And sunny, it's a common shock response to be very calm if that helps you understand.

I believe that it is none of your Fv({IN business why she is smiling. PTSD maybe, jubuliation at seeing that a friend/relative survived. There may be 100 reasons why she may be happy at that particular moment in time and for you to express concern or outrage is totally uncalled for.

Awh, come on. You need to come back to reality. I wondered why she was smiling and attempted to post a msg but it didn't take. I've worked in mental health for years and years. Her smile is not normal and is not PTSD and is not relief. It is sick and twisted.

Some people have nervous smile.

Wow! Talk about judgmental. Really. She survived and apparently just learned someone else near to her did as well. I guess you wouldn't be happy unless she was tearing her hair out and screaming.

not our place even to wonder about it

Really!

I agree with Pamela Elgart.

My own thoughts at a time of tragedy is that it is not the time to critique the behaviors of the victims or survivors or society.

But after a time of mourning has taken place, there are some tough questions that need asked about the movie makers, the media , the movie goers, the evil hype put out ahead of this dark movie, the question of parental oversight, our society and where we want our society to be in 5 years, and even questions about ourselves and our own part in what happens in our society.

According to a news report the infant and six year old are same family and the father put them on the ground and lay on top of them. The mother was injured.

Save the country the pain and expense of a trial. Put this monster out now. He had better not try to us the insanity plea. There was far to much premeditation his all of his actions.

WTF Columbo??

Bandit i agree with you at least terrorists usually have a reason to kill people this guy who calls himself the "joker" did this for no reason if not for his amusement. Instead of tattoing him i would strap him in the old electric chair or do what they did in salem chain his limbs and throw him in the ocean.

bandit........... AH NO........ This young man wants to die........... He stated, "he's the joker"...... Well, Keep him ALIVE........... Don't give him an easy out............. Let him remember for the next 60 years of his life, what HE HAS DONE........... WELL, THE JOKE IS ON HIM.................

By the looks of it, the crazy guy wanted to have the "record" of how many he could kill. There really is no other explanation. The police is not disclosing the motive, so there must be a dumb reason, or a political one.

The guy was not stupid, and he methodically planned this. Since he was failing in his personal life, he was probably going into the hall of fame in some way or another.

Maybe Obama can use his EX POWER so things can move faster .

Join the NRA,NRA,NRA

And by the way people kill people not guns.

Yeah, mike ritter, I'm really sure everyone is going to "celebrate" this tragedy by running out to join the NRA. Talk about inappropriate posts!

Not sure getting his head sawed off with a dull blade was in his plans, and as to throwing him in the ocean, drowning is not the worst way to go, I still say removing his head slowly would fit the bill.

Your idea of what you think about kids going to a midnight showing is none of your business.

slightlyold - that statement doesn't even make any sense.

And yet another mass tragedy caused by the NRA-philosophy that citizens have a "right to bear arms". The NRA should be disbanded as an organization that espouses violence and killing and the only people in the USA who should be permitted to own and carry firearms are the police and the military. It was all too easy for this lunatic to buy his guns.

The influence of the NRA makes it all too easy for anyone to purchase firearms in certain states. The "right to bear arms" was specifically drafted by the founding fathers for the revolutionary militia prior to 1776. It has no place in today's society.

@Stan W.-2317709, if we didn't have the right to bear arms this evil a*hole would still have been armed with assault rifles but you gun control nuts don't understand that. The right to bear arms does have a place in today's society and if you don't like it then move to another country.

I lived in California for many years. Was married for 23 years to a nut case whi "collected" illegal weapons. He had numerous assault rifles nd would buy rofles amd modify them so that they were automatic weapons. He also bought cases of hollow point and armour pearcing bullets. I finally left him and notifed the ATF. Did they do ANYTHING? NOPE!!! My father who is an ex marine and retired police officer even talked to them, confirmed what I had told them and asked them to do something. They did nothing! Everytime I hear about some psyco killing people I am just waiting to hear that it was him! There definately needs to be some reprting system for someone who purchases bumerous weapons etc.

Stan are you a Nazi?

"The influence of the NRA makes it all too easy for anyone to purchase firearms in certain states."

In the state of Vermont, if you pass the background check, you can walk out of a gun shop, with a gun and carry it, open or concealed. Shouldnt the steets of Vermont be running red with blood because of this? But, they are not. In places like Camden NJ or Detroit or Chicago, it is all but impossible to legally carry a firearm, but those places, amongst other gun controlled cities, have the bodies pile up every year. Can you explain this?

I agree with you markusb...One or two good guys with guns could have saved many from this nut-job!

Yes. One or two people with guns could have saved the day against someone wearing protective gear from head to toe. In a dark theater. With the smoke from tear gas obscuring the view.

How many more dead people did you want there to be? Seriously.

...who they said started shooting during a shooting scene...

DUH

Yeah guys, another person or two shooting in a dark gas filled theater with people running around trying to hit a guy wearing a bullet proof vest, tactical helmet, groin and throat protection would have ended this without anyone getting hurt...sarc

The bullet proof vest is all hindsight, that means nothing. Decent people with guns could have made a difference. The bullet(s) that could have hit the shooter wouldn't kill him but certainly knock him down an stall a few seconds to get more people out.

marksub - You sound like Gomer Pyle in Texas - and when Gabbie Gifford was shot there was an armed man and he said afterward "Thank god I didn't pull my weapon and used my gun because I was aiming at the wrong man"

You and your shoot outs at OK Corral - the theatre was in total darkness and if some other idiot start shooting it would probably shot or killed some one else

This is not the Wild West - although it appears to be happening except the Wild West didn't have assault weapons

Be Accountable and heck the ones that missed him would have killed others either directly or ricocheting.

No biggie there huh?

More Guns. More Bullets+ More deaths and Injuries

I'm with you markusb, a trained person with a concealed weapon would have improved the odds of less people being killed. Period. Gun control nuts would have us give the world over to the crazies where the crazy ones would be the only ones who are armed.

Ya, a gun fight in a dark crowded movie theatre would have improved the odds for more death, idiot. This coward should be executed immediately by firing squad.

People who have no experience with firearms make and have all kinds of assumptions. The chief assumption is that anyone with a badge is a firearms expert and any civillian with a gun is an un-trained hack. I can tell you for a fact, that most citizens who legally carry and follow firearms law to the letter, are in most cases, as good or better marksmans than many police. I have seen police on the range who could not hit the side of a barn with a bolwing ball shot out of a circus cannon. We are good shots, we have to be. If a police officer hits an un-intended target(person), he gets desk duty until it all goes away. If a citizen hits an un-intended target, we have a massive problem. It`s in everyone`s best interest that we are accurate.

Another grossly incorrect idea, by people like Frankly True, is that firearms carried by the common man is an out dated and un-needed practice . WRONG! You dont know as much as you proudly think that you know. First, it is my right, within the law to be armed. It`s interesting how Libs only support the laws that they find accomodating to them. The U.S. is a Republic and in a Republic, the law is respected and the highest law is the Constitution. It is our RIGHT to own and carry. Liberals will often say that they have "...the right to FEEL safe.." If we talk about rights, we are talking about the Constitution. Show me anywhere in the Constitution the "Right To FEEL safe". You cannot. However, I can show you "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." Libs are always functioning around their "feelings". Your feelings mean nothing. Placing a ban on firearms will only make you "feel" safe, but it has NO basis in reality. There are places in this world where citizens may not carry a gun and the people there get murdered just fine, every day.

The removal of firearms mandates rulership by the young, the strong and the many. One man, with a gun, can defend himself or his family or even someone he doesnt know, from multiple attackers. Guns protect, defend and support life, in the hands of civillians, more often than in the hands of government agents. Taking away my weapons wont make you any safer, as I dont intend to harm you in the first palce. Putting a gun in the hand of a person does not make them evil or more prone to harm someone. If a person uses a gun for an act of evil, then were evil long before they obtained that weapon. Disarming they general public only increases the boldness of criminals, as they are aware that an un-armed public are easy prey. My uncle was a corrections officer. Over the years he had many conversations with violent offenders. He was told, by the criminals, that they dont necessarilly fear the police, but they do fear the armed citizen.

If this guy wanted to kill people and he no firearms, he still would haveaccomplished his goal. Standing in the theater, with a paperboys canvas bag over his shoulder, he reaches into the bag, pulls out a homemade gasoline bomb, flicks the Bic and starts throwing. After 7 or 8 molitovs explode in the crowd, people are burned to death. Entering the lobby, he casually looks around, the pulls the starter cord on a fuled up chainsaw and starts working. How many children can he butcher in 60 seconds? Waiting outside of the theater in a 5000 lb van, the movie goers emerge from the show. He floors the accelerator and plows into a group, cracking bone and splitting internal organs. Then, he backs up and does it again.

I am walking alone, coming home from work one night. A group of thugs approach me. They make demands that I am unwilling to meet. Following Liberal guidelines, I attempt to reason with them and show them the wrongness of their ways. This does not work, as they become more aggressive. Then, further remembering my Liberal instruction to "just give them what they want", I comply. Unfortunately, what they want is to make my heart stop beating. The massive attack on me begins. However, a police office chances by and the street thugs run away, before they could complete my murder. Months later,as I lay in a hospice bed, unable to walk or see, I am sad and annoyed by the fact that I am no longer an asset to my family, but a financial burden, for the decades that I will remain alive.

I am walking alone, coming home from work one night. A group of thugs approach me. They make demands that I am unwilling to meet. They become more aggressive. Remembering the handgun on my hip, I push back my cover garment, put my hand firmly on the grip and stare at them. Suddenly, they realize the wrongness of their ways and quickly depart from my company. Later that week, I enjoy a cool glass of lemonade, while listening to a ballgame.

Get the picture?

I have a few comments/Questions to make:

1) Why would you take a 6 year old kid to a R rated flick at midnight?

Answer: Babysitter and if you can't find one you don't go!

2) Why jump on the gun control band wagon? Why not censorship? I mean the guy dressed up as the Joker and killed people. Obviously watched a lot of TV and had it been censored would this have happened?

Answer: If your going to blame guns then you HAVE to blame the violent movies and video games that are being produced. Guns are produced for protection, it's your right to have one or not to have one. Movies are produced for entertainment, it's your right to choose what you want to watch and what not to watch. Our kids are not separating reality from fiction. Perfect example: The other day I had a person (adult probably 30 yrs of age) in my store that stated " I don't know why all these farmers raise cattle, I just go to the store to get beef" She was dead serious, she had no clue where the meat at the store came from. We have created a fictional world about how we live and it is getting scary people!

@ andyt3300 I agree 100 percent. Some people will never understand the way this stuff works. They're just blind to it, and the sad part is, they always will be blind.

And how many innocent people would have been caught in the crossfire? Do you know what tear gas does to the body or should those who carry concealed weapons also routinely carry gas masks?

I agree... with today's technology there is no reason that at least some of the injured couldn't have been identified.... pictures with a list of identifying marks...tattoos, birthmarks, whatever.... could have been passed to the families. In the interest of privacy they could narrow things down before they showed the pictures. If your missing person is a male, for example, you'd only see those pictures.

Some of would think that, but look at Bid Laden and all the people that were bent out of shape because they felt he deserved a fair trial.. There are still too many people that live in a fairy-tale world were people believe in Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and Obama.

Not sure why you listed Obama but you forgot to list God...

I listed Obama because I wanted to :o) I have heard of people praising this God thing you speak of, but so far it appears to be a myth.

Any tabloid that even tried to get pictures or do a story on this should be shut down. Too many times they make money off of peoples grief. Everyone, celebrities or not, is entitled to some privacy. Too much anymore does our society care about private pictures and information whether it be sexual or death.

First off, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims. What a horrible and tragic event.

As a liberal, who also supports the right to own a gun, and happens to be a freelance writer for DC Comics, I find this entire situation absolutely awful! I don't believe that taking away our right to own guns is the answer so much as better monitoring gun owners and gun locations. This man was obviously mentally ill and therefore unpredictable. It is neither the fault of the gun, nor those who created the character he claimed to be, but the lack of oversight on gun ownership. I will never understand the need to own assault rifles, which seem like gross overkill and far exceed the needs represented by the gun owning community, but I will not dispute our right to own them. These discussions seem a bit off-topic to me, when the real issue is that as a society we seem to seek to control every scenario that might occur out of fear of its happening. The truth is; we can't control insanity. By its very nature, it is unpredictable. Arguing constitutional rights is clearly a way for society to feel like they can somehow gain control of chaos. Acting irrationally and reactively by yanking our constitutional freedoms everytime an even occurs that can't be predicted is not only unwise, but incredibly dangerous to this country's future.

This is just my opinion and I do not presume to speak for anyone affiliated with the Batman label, but I do know that all in that community share in the sense of loss in the face of this tragedy. We create heroes to inspire and sometimes to entertain and the fact that such a horrible event has occurred in connection with what we all love, saddens us all.