Yeah, Brian. Stop saying bad stuff about those religious people that have, over the course of history, killed and brutally murdered hundreds of millions of people because God told them to.

I believe in the spaghetti monster...is that ok Texson?

God gives us free will. If He were to take away one person's free will, He must take away all people's free will. Unfortunetly, some people use free will to hurt others.

Texson, On the contrary, it has historically been those that put their faith in imaginary beings that have caused the greatest harm to society. Imagine where we would be today, as a society, if Christianity had not oppressed science for 1000 years.

Get over yourself. Your god is not all he's cracked up to be. Any god that is so weak to allow this to happen to his devout worshipers is definitely not enough of a god for his followers to judge me.

Texson55 - Believing in nothing is nihilism. Atheism and agnosticism are something different entirely.

"So you find this comical, do you Brian? Those who believe in "nothing" are the real tragedies of society."

Oh please, give it a rest. Religious fanatics are responsible for far more misery than us non-believers. And, oh by the way, your God has a lot of blood on his hands as well, if you regard the Old Testament as an accurate record.

Well, whether you're religious or not, you're dealt a certain set of cards in life, and that's that. Has nothing to do with religion, or a G(g)od, or lack of thereof.

Face it, it's HUMANITY that's responsible for most of it's misery. To pin it on anything else is a cop out.

“The question we all probably struggle with: Why did God allow this?

Not all of us.

I'm going to go with: Your imaginary friend has no power except in your mind.

How could god allow this? It's summer! He's on Holiday!

Man is the author of evil!!

He's been busy protecting 2nd amendment rights and keeping marriage defined as a union between one man and one woman. You want God's protection? Buy yourself some magic underwear.

GOD? - but my savior comes when I spell 'GOD' backwards, you get -

DOG - that is what I get consolation from!

cats and dogs go to heaven, pigs go to hell. Pets are smart - this is not an advertisement for PetSmart.

Some people believe in God(s) and some don't. We can still be respectful of the choices and beliefs of others, and we don't have to bash each other. I don't really get how this story is news whether you believe in God or not, though. I would imagine that many pastors in many churches were talking about this and that many who didn't go to church were mulling over the horrible things humans do to each other.

To each his or her own...can't we just get along?

God didn't allow it. Someone who doesn't exist can't "allow" anything to happen. Get real, people!

Brian,

"I guess reality is too difficult for some feeble minds to accept."

It is not the feeble minded who find it difficult to accept. A universe that is devoid of any inherent meaning is difficult for any thinking person to accept. If it is not difficult for you to accept, perhaps it is because you have never given it sufficient thought. Nihilism is not easy philosophy to live with.

We should be respectful of others choices unless it interferes with my choices.

Religions that seek to limit our freedoms should be stopped !

ram - I defend and respect your right to believe in mythical powers but I don't respect the belief itself especially when that belief leads to misery.

I really don't understand society today people scream out "why did God allow this to happen" when they should be screaming out why did we allow this to happen. Why has America taken on such a role that we are wanting metal detectors, more gun laws, more armed patrols in movie theaters now. When will we learn that the government will not be the answer. God will not rain down and stop all the evil in our world. We the people will some day come to the realization that an outside control will not help. If as a Nation come to the understanding that these events will not stop and will not subside but only grow in numbers maybe we as individuals will take the actions to stop the enemy from harming our friends, family, and children. Shame on US Shame on the individuals who think this could have been prevented and shame on those who are not willing to fight for each other.

oh-oh, ah. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMuDtfxAIKk

Toredown

Guns are neither good or evil. In the hands of good people they do good thing. In the hands of evil people they do evil things. Just hope there are many more good people then evil.

If the the people that support the right to bear arms were as voracious as the ones that want to ban guns, there would be no gun banners.

Curious...why are so many "god-less" people attracted to commenting on msnbc.com ?

not attracted S#$t happens

why are so many "god-less" people attracted to commenting on msnbc.com ?

Personally speaking, I'm oddly amused and somewhat intrigued by stupid comments like yours, and you can always find a plethora of them here because the Faux News website doesn't have comments.

Ah yes, and the call goes out for gun control. Well Deon, do you mean like the gun control in the crime free city of Chicago? Or perhaps like the gun control in the crime free cities of Baltimore, NY, Wash. D.C. Or maybe gun control like they have in the crime free nation of Mexico? If somebody wants to commit a heinous act, no amount of "control" will stop them. Remember 9/11? No guns. Remember the riots in Watts, Detroit, etc. No guns. The OK City bombing? No guns. It's time for people to get their heads out of their rectal orifices. Evil will find a way, plain and simple.

mj899: You can't believe anyone, even gun advocates, could take your second second sentence seriously. The NRA and its legions of worshipers make mince meat out of gun control advocates.

@Jamie R:

What's wrong with mj899's second sentence? You don't believe that "in the hands of good people guns do good things" is true?

By the way, just so you and any other people who read this understand: Gun control is not about guns. It is simply about "CONTROL".

Charlie451,

I am glad you are 67 years old and you are a happy soul. You said: "...Now there are some good Christians etc but more bad than good..." First, please tell me how you came to that conclusion. Second, when you say "good" what do you mean? Since you have no moral basis to life (as an atheist who believe that there is only material existence) then how can you even judge and say there is good or bad. Thank you.

Ah yes, and the call goes out for gun control. Well Deon, do you mean like the gun control in the crime free city of Chicago? Or perhaps like the gun control in the crime free cities of Baltimore, NY, Wash. D.C. Or maybe gun control like they have in the crime free nation of Mexico?

I notice one example you didn't state: Japan has very strict gun control laws, yet has very low rates of gun violence. Even their criminal gangs usually resort to other methods of fighting, due to their inability to get guns.

You've got cause and effect reversed. Where is there a strong push for gun control laws? In places where there is a lot of gun violence, not in places were gun violence is rare.

It isn't gun control laws that cause gun violence, it is gun violence that causes gun control laws.

Jamie R

That was not the point i was making

gun control freaks are more hostile towards people that own guns then gun owners are towards the freaks.

If we were like the freaks ,there would be no freaks left.

let me know if you now understand

God had his back turned away at those gun stores when evil made the purchase with the intent to kill. it is still a truism "guns dont kill people*** people with guns kill people" i think perhaps even God believes that to be true.

haluk, Who are you to tell another they have no basis to moral Life?

Romans 2:1

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.

So you find this comical, do you Brian? Those who believe in "nothing" are the real tragedies of society+

I believe in something called reality and thoughtful process. It has gotten us pretty far while the believers in what ever their church/mosque/temple/etc. refuse to grow up. You can be a spiritual and good person and not follow any of the prescribed religions. In fact, I see more agnostics who have a spiritual self than I do someone who has jumped on the bandwagon of what ever religion they are brought up in.

Texson55 Comment collapsed by the community

So you find this comical, do you Brian? Those who believe in "nothing" are the real tragedies of society

.......Wow Texson, when did you get all that power to pass judgement on others like Brian? By the way, not believing in God does not mean you believe in nothing, there are plenty of things to believe in this life, including the capacity of people to be helpful and generous to their fellow human beings who have fallen on hard times and need help. You don't need a God to be that way, just basic human kindness.

csmithers, if there is a God he also created "the evil one". Now why would he do that? People who continue to believe in a book written by men as mind-control over the peasants really haven't evolved and are a huge part of the problems we see today. Why are pastors questioning this when thousands die in natural disasters every year? Because a man caused it? If anything a natural disaster would be more god-related if they actually believe in a god.

When one's mind is closed off to the infinite possibilities of the universe, one only sees their own ego, and ego is a dark, shallow little place.

How could God allow this you ask? Well, there are two possible answers that I can think of: Either God does not micro-manage the universe, or there is no God.

Haluk- I'm pretty well used to the outrageous level of sanctimonious puffery that comes flying from the fingertips of ardent believers, but you've just registered the new high-water mark on the talking-through-your-hat meter.

Where in the world did you get the idea that people who decide not to believe in magical fairy tales as the basis of all reality are incapable of being moral? What-do you think that until the talking burning shrubbery dictated the 10 commandments to Moses that it never occurred to anyone before that it is inherently wrong to kill another person? That until those sage words of authority (only a couple of which by the way are actually used as a basis for any real laws) were handed down from on high, everyone thought it was perfectly acceptable to take things that do not belong to them? Please. Nobody can be that simplistically stupid.

Two words.....free will. God did not create robots. We all have choices and how we decide to live will follow us into eternity. The good pastor should at least have that understanding if he wants to lead a flock. For those of you that make fun of Christians or even worse, of God, my heart feels for you. May you someday be blessed with the peace, joy and love that surpasses all understanding found in one that worships our Risen Lord.

this is why i like the batman comic books.

Whether you believe in god, or not, it all comes down to "free will".

Even the bible says so, and for the non-believers like myself, it's the same.

childofgod:

It saddens me even more to read the negative comments about God from people that clearly do not know him and have not bothered to find out who he is. I dare you to find out! I dare you to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and to confess that you are sinner (as we all are) and invite him into your heart and to change your life, to read his word and have relationship with him.

The evil in the world is not God's doing it's Satan's doing. He roams the earth seeking whom he may devour.

I wonder that reasonable, logical comments (like the first few from Deon and Brian, etc.) are collapsed and nonsense like this poster is let stand. It shows how intolerant of others' opinions we have become. This is one of the reasons some of us find it difficult to function rationally in the world and go on shooting sprees.

Is he not Gods (I assume Yahweh) envoy to this speck of dust in the universe?

If he can't understand Yahwehs will, he shouldn't be preaching to the masses.

This has nothing to do with god, religion, or any supernatural being. This has to do with someone who has a serious stitch loose. So far, the reports in the American news media make the guy sound like he's fairly normal (at least up till the incident), but foreign newspapers paint a different picture and make him sound like he could have benefited from some therapy early on. Also, why didn't bells go off when he bought all those guns and ammunition? There should be a national database that tracks that kind of thing. And why does anyone not in the military need an assault rifle. These things should be outlawed. Whatever the case, I feel very sorry for those involved and their lives will never be the same. If Colorado can do anything for them at all, it is to have a speedy trial so this tragic event can be put behind them and they can go on with their lives.

First off, to the media, can we please stick to the issue at hand? Report on in and do some more in depth stories but like always this is starting to go way off subject. We don't need to know what every Tom, Dick, Harry, and self proclaimed expert think about this. It is only giving this guy what he wants and needlessly stirring the pot (the religion pot in this case) for those who seem to have a loose grasp at best, of understanding this event. Otherwords more influence for the weak minded who depend on the media to think for them. There was just an article about Heath Ledger's dad and gun control, really WTF does he have to do with this or why does the media feel his input is needed? Yes I know I posted to this article so blah blah and sorry for the rant but I'm just so tired of how the media milks events like this for every last drop of sensationalism and then some. Off my soap box.

Otherwise, as far as to why this happened, we still don't know yet, end of story. Let's just focus on what we do know, pay our repects for those lost, hope for those wounded a speedy recover, and hope that our justice system does its job in the end and removes this guy from society.

It is time

Susi - no bells went off because there were no reasons for them to go off and people buying several guns (good or bad) at a time or close in time to each other is not against the law, or for responsible gun purchasers/owner not a big deal (though something needs done about this thanks to the straw buyers on the border but they don't fall under the heading responsible buyers; only responsible for fueling drug war violence). As for ammo, you can expend easily, a few hundred rounds when target practicing (far more than what this guy did). Yes we need to go back look at some our laws as well as how they are enforced, includes telling the NRA to shut up, but we can't let these events be the reason to pass knee jerk reaction laws that just limit law abiding citizens more than anything.

Deon StupartRestored

I am tired of people thinking that God is there to rescue us from every trial and tribulation.

First, there is no god, and all these pastors have jumped on the bandwagon to try and get people to follow their ideology of the invisible man in the sky is going to save you.

Lets say that all 12 of these people were religious and believed in god. Then why didn't this almighty and powerful "god" of yours protect and save them? Oh, the excuse for that will be, "GOD" needed them, and took them out in a violent way.

Give me a fukkin break. There is no god, there is no heaven or hell, you make your own heaven or hell here on earth.

Learn it, live with it, and just accept the fact that we have a bunch of loony people in the world that uses violence against innocent people, just as religions create wares, famine, teaches and preaches hate, bigotry and evil to the core.

Tax all these goddamn church and religions or shut them all down. They cause more harm to the people than they have done good.

These people unfortunately happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and this religious nut decided to send them to heaven sooner than they wanted to go.

I think it's funny how everyone just can't wait to jump on the "I believe" or "blast God and religion" bandwagon. You all can't wait to either mock believers or slam those who think there is no God. I personally know that God exists and I believe that Jesus Christ died for me. But no matter what side you are on, I guess we'll all find out when Jesus returns and the world ends. As for me, I'd rather believe that I am going to heaven with Jesus than be reduced to ashes and have the birds pick my bones. So mock God if you like, but this is only our temporary home. Satan was thrown out of heaven and lives and rules this earth. So for right now Satan is in control. There is no blood on God's hands. God didn't kill and torture thousands of people (as in the Dark Ages), a certain church did. I take offence at being called an idiot because I believe in God. I have a college degree in science and after much research, I know that God created this world in seven literal days.

Isn't the simple answer to this that there is no god? That's why these things are allowed to happen.

Pony....can you please tell me how you 'know' that god created the world in seven litteral days? I suspect that there is no god at all, but I don't 'know' it for sure. I suspect that you have the same analytical skills as I do, regardless of your degree or not. Therefore, I think I can safely assume what I have always suspected....that the truly religious do not 'know' anything more than I do....they can only 'assume' there is a god based on their individual beliefs. There is no proof of either the existense of god or the non-existence. Therefore, anybody that portends that they 'know' either way is a fool.

There is no God Or Gods ...religon has been the CAUSE of so much death on this planet throughout existence...Wake up you Bible thumping Hypocrites. OH and shove a stick up your ASSES you anti gun pukes.

from Ponylover7 -

I have a college degree in science and after much research, I know that God created this world in seven literal days.

A degree in science? Ya gotta be kiddin' me. Then please explain how the plants survived without photosynthesis, since they were created before the sun. And while you're at it, please explain why the sun was created 3 days after "day and night" were created; in your answer, please include your analysis of what a "day" was before the sun existed.

from Linda M-311663

Two words.....free will.

Then could you please explain why your god cares more about the "free will" of the shooter than he does about the "free will" of the shooter's victims that wish to continue to exist? What about the "free will" of the victims?

Jim,

"Then please explain how the plants survived without photosynthesis, since they were created before the sun. And while you're at it, please explain why the sun was created 3 days after "day and night" were created; in your answer, please include your analysis of what a "day" was before the sun existed."

You ask too many questions, and there's your problem right there. It's no wonder you are a unbeliever! No one can ask so many questions and still maintain a healthy fundamentalist faith. The same thing happened to me. I was brought up young, dumb and happy believing all those things Ponylover7 believes until I went to college and got into the habit of asking questions. What happened then? Poof! Just like that my faith was gone! Nothing will destroy a world of fantasy faster than asking questions! Don't do it! Ignorance is bliss, you know. :)

"You ask too many questions, and there's your problem right there. It's no wonder you are a unbeliever!"

Yeah. Just shut up and drink the damn Kool-Aid already!

lokay5,

"Just shut up and drink the damn Kool-Aid already!"

Yup! That's it. That's the only way to maintain a firm fundamentalist faith. Just start questioning, and it's all over! I think it's what the Catholic Church calls the "authority principle". They are the authority. It is not you position in life to question authority. :)

God did not allow this to happen.

A society that would rather build prisons that invest in mental health care for its citizens allowed this to happen.

Besides, God was busy helping the Pope cover up all the pedophilia in his churches, and making sure Pat Robertson was still getting rich off of donations from old people's pensions and blood diamonds.

If the the people that support the right to bear arms were as voracious as the ones that want to ban guns

Why is it that when people want better control on guns all of a sudden it turns into wanting to ban guns? Controlling a gun or ammunition purchase hurt no one except the arms merchants. I can go out now see a gun I want do the paper work and have the gun in my posession very soon. Why the haste since with the proper gun controls we can eliminate people who have a problem dealing with life. Life means potential for harming themselves or others. The NRA and the arms merchants have brain washed people into believeing that anyone who opposes their point of view is hell bent on removing all firearms from the hands of all citizens which is an out and out lie if ever there was one. Another thing was a cooment that guns do good things or bad things. A used gun except in target practice or competition ends up killing or maining someone or something when it is used so the sombody or something that dies from its use would shurley disagree that guns have no good use. Colorado has one os the loosest gun laws in the States. where wer the CC people when this happened that were supposed to come to the rescue and save us if we let them carry?

And I'm even more tired of people who think that I'm a bad person for being an atheist, when all I want is to live and let live. I don't care what people believe in as long as nobody gets hurt (no live sacrifices, no scams, no abuses of any kind) and as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat.
Just let people be and keep your faith to yourself.

Try being a post-theist. That gets the religious folks a scratchin' their heads. They don't even know what to make of that one.

I don't care for the term Atheist very much. It implies there is a god and I'm just too stubborn to believe in him. I prefer anything that suggests there is no such entity.

mj-1451595 Finally the voice of reason, thanks for putting my thought to words.

So what good is this life? What is it? Get born, work to survive, then die? Kind of depressing!

Aaron, why should you care what other people think. Do you have a complex?

NFIL, you make good points. Whether a person goes to church or doesn't, whether s/he believes in God or gods or not doesn't make him or her any kinder, nicer, compassionate, or intelligent. It isn't the measure of the core of a person or how trustworthy s/he is, either, and until that aspect of life isn't held as some indicator of "goodness" or honesty, there will be fighting in our society about who is better or more wonderful, or even worthy of being a person's friend.

I don't stick my person beliefs in anyone's face and I expect the same from others regarding my face. Let's just get along and treat each other with respect. Christian doesn't necessarily mean a wonderful person and Atheist doesn't necessarily mean one either since we are individuals and responsible for our choices. Don't hurt people or force your beliefs on others, whatever they are, treat others with respect and compassion, and let's just get along.

ProFreedom-5130956: So what good is this life? What is it? Get born, work to survive, then die? Kind of depressing!

What's even more depressing? Lost, mindless, brainwashed people who spend their lives living for something after death -- something that has never been proven, some cult beliefs that have Absolutely No Evidence to support the claims.

Even more depressing than that? Those same people who think that you can only live for the cult and cult beliefs, OR the only other option is to Get born, work to survive, then die. Pretty sad mindset!!

@ ProFreedom...

The point of life? The point is to continue, to evolve, to change and become something different. We're doing that right now. Our species is slowly changing. Becoming something much more different than even what we were 10,000 years ago.

Now, we're on the cusp of becoming a multi-planetary species. Eventually, humans will explore, colonize, and raise families on Mars and elsewhere off planet from Earth. They'll actually be a different species than the Earth-bound variation of humankind after only a few generations.

The purpose of our species is to continue and to spread. Look at what we've done so far? We exist in the deserts, the jungles, swamps and arctic tundra of this planet. We can fly through the air, dive beneath the waves, and we're currently living in an orbiting outpost circling this planet.

10,000 years from now (if some ridiculously insane religious sect doesn't figure out a way to kill everyone on this planet), we should have a good portion of this galactic arm in our neighborhood of space partially colonized across mutliple different solar systems. This is all very exciting stuff.

True, we as individuals live and die in a relatively short duration; however, it's inspiring to be a part of the "human story" and living with the knowledge that we've made some small contribution to our species eventual exodus onto other worlds and other places to live.

ram: Christian doesn't necessarily mean a wonderful person and Atheist doesn't necessarily mean one either since we are individuals and responsible for our choices. Don't hurt people or force your beliefs on others, whatever they are, treat others with respect and compassion, and let's just get along.

Nice idea. Now, if only christians in America would simply mind their own goddam business and stop trying to legislate certain, specific scriptures from their cult beliefs, in order to force everyone to follow them. It would be a great stride toward treating others with respect, compassion and getting along.

I am in my eighth decade, and I have a few disappointments, but I have enjoyed all of the decades for the most part. Man builds on knowledge learned in each generation, and the sky's the limit as to the future. I am too impressed to be depressed.

NFIL

And I'm even more tired of people who think that I'm a bad person for being an atheist, when all I want is to live and let live. I don't care what people believe in as long as nobody gets hurt (no live sacrifices, no scams, no abuses of any kind) and as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat.
Just let people be and keep your faith to yourself.

Actually, NFIL, I doubt whether anyone really gives a rat's ass that you are an atheist. If you want to 'live and let live', just (to paraphrase your own lament) 'keep your faithlessness to your self.

As for you religion-haters. I seriously doubt whether any of you can back up your flatulence that belief in God or Christianity has led to more deaths than any other cause. But it does make for grand hyperbole, if not intellectual reasoning.

When are people gonna wake up to the fact this killer was a product of a country that feeds on violence and hate. Batman has loads of violence that gets spread out to young children. The Media, the Government are also responsible. Change the gun laws and we wouldn't have lost so many great people. If people who are responsible and want a gun they will go through the loops to get one if they made the law tougher.. rather then making it easy for ANYONE to get a gun.

On that note...bring back public hangings to show people no one should harm another human being. Take him to a field in Aurora and hang him high! the people who died deserve this and the families. Its not violent and it teaches children to respect life rather then believing in a false god that shows nothing and does nothing.

When are people gonna wake up to the fact this killer was a product of a country that feeds on violence and hate.

And a little later:

Take him to a field in Aurora and hang him high!

Yup, that's the ticket for addressing violence and hate in this country. Why not burn him at the stake? Draw and quarter him? Bring back the rack?

"bring back public hangings to show people no one should harm another human being."

LOL. Um..... never mind.

It always irks me when I hear someone ask "How can a loving God let this happen?" especially when infants or very young children are killed or injured. This had nothing to do with God. The bigger question should be why would an adult bring an infant/young child to a movie that starts when most children are asleep in bed at home. Is the cost of a babysitter too high? Or are you too cheap to pay for one? But that's not going to stop the parents going to the movie. You see, with this "ME" generation you do anything you can to satisfy your desires. Furthermore, we have free will. That means we are responsible for our actions, not God. So don't blame God. Blame the self-centered people who unfortunately seem to be running our world.

last I checked Jameso545. The parents are responsible for the children, So the parents decide when the children sleep, not you. Im not a parent myself but you honestly think your way is the only way?

What if the kids were excited to see batman and they behaved and did good, the parents might of want to reward the children by taking them to the movie, so what if its at midnight. If the parents brought the kids to the theater you don't have any right to moan about why they aren't sleeping.

Ps. If god is real, why let innocent people die? The only reason would be that god is just some higher power playing a sick game, OR he doesn't exist. but that's my opinion, you probably believe its all in gods plan which is to recruit children to fight in his army.

Was this god's will too? Or only good things are attributable to your god?

J Camp: I seriously doubt whether any of you can back up your flatulence that belief in God or Christianity has led to more deaths than any other cause.

I'm sure you do doubt that. But, if you had gotten a real education, instead of the brainwashing BuyBull-Home-Schooling that you were saddled with -- then you'd realize the statement was an accurate one.

Cheers!

brian-1903576 Comment collapsed by the community

It has nothing to do with parsing the supposed intent of an imaginary supernatural friend.

brian,

If God did not exist, our world would be even worse.

You do not realize it, however, this very day, God has protected you from dangers seen and unseen.

Life is a "human condition."

If one believes in scripture, the word of God is clear...because of sin, we are a fallen people.

brian, have you noticed that every day, the sun rises in the West and always sets in the West?

Have you noticed that the planets never rotate off of their axis and collide with each other?

Have you noticed that earth is the only planet that can sustain human life?

Have you noticed that an elephant never gives birth to a giraffe?

The human body is the greatest testimony to God.

Most of us are born with not only the organs that we need to sustain life, but with sensory organs that give us "gifts." That is, eyes to see, ears to hear, a nose to smell, a tongue to taste and the gift of touch.

The universe and the human body are too precise, for the existence of both to have randomly "evolved."

There is a God...you just do not know this being...

typo:

brian, have you noticed that every day, the sun rises in the East and always sets in the West?

25Walker: If God did not exist, our world would be even worse.

And yet, you still have no proof that your cult-god exists! You babble about it, you claim it does, you assert it does, you even screech that it does... But you don't have one shred of evidence to support your silly, outrageous claims.

So, don't whine at other people for simply being factual in their statements.

Cheers!

25Walker: Have you noticed that an elephant never gives birth to a giraffe?

Wow. OK, now I know who we're dealing with here.

Mayor of Whack-Job City!

Dasvet: Aaron, why should you care what other people think. Do you have a complex?

Seems that you care about what Aaron thinks -- so much that you have to comment back to him.

Hypocrite much?

@25walker. If your god wants humans to believe in him, all he has to do is reveal himself to us like he did to others.

If god exist then why do people suffer? Why do we doubt him? Why does he get to judge us? We didnt ask to be born, so why is it we were forced to be born and then some of us made to suffer eternally? Your god does not make sense, because he does not exist.

to clarify, by reveal to others, I mean people like jesus, the phophets and all the other people. Not the brainwashed people that are raised into religion like today.

Another way to put it, reveal to us like he did before to adam and eve.

I personally don't believe. But for those who do, let them be, especially at a time like this.

There are proven psychological benefits to prayer. I believe the prayer helps them to clear their mind which is a form of meditation that affects alpha and beta waves in a positive way. They get some sort of mental equilibrium that affects the entire body.

As long as they mean well, aren't pushy, or threatening me with "eternal damnation". I can deal with that. I often think inside that the foil hats are going to come out any minute, but whatever. Live, and let live right ?

Having said that, if there is a god or not, it still is the same; "free will".

Profreedom- 5130956 -

You left out the most important thing. (Procreate)

Our world would be even more sad and depressing if we were a country without laws or the teachings of Jesus. The 2 greatest laws, "Love your neighbor", "Love your neighbor as your yourself". As far as religion is the cause of all war? Go study history. The costliest war ever (for loss of life and in today's $$) was our U.S. Civil War. Crazy kamikaze pilots bombing Hawaii? Are you saying that if everyone was atheist, that Japanese would not have bombed us? If everyone was aethist, are you saying that the Korean war would have never happened?

Don't blame God for the evil that man does. If everyone was atheist, violence and evil would not cease. What can we learn from this? An alarm should have gone off when the exit door of the theatre was opened. A theatre employee should have then secured the door after the alarm sounded to prevent someone coming in through the exit door.

This Pastor is showing a general misunderstanding of the Christian God. If you believe in the God of the Old and New Testament, you need to understand that we live under "free will". In a system of free will, God does not claim credit for all the good, nor does He "let bad things happen". We, man, are fallen. We can restore our relationship to Him only through His Son and His sacrifice.

For those who think this is a free pass, think again. If God is God, He's not dumb. He knows our heart, knows the con's from the genuine, and we as people accept that this fallen world is filled with all kinds of evil, in and outside of the church.

Believe or not, that's up to you, but this misunderstanding of God and good and evil still surprises me, especially when it comes from a pastor.

Thank you, Mister Wonderful, for your comment explaining the general misunderstanding of the Christian God; that's why I joined on because of that misunderstanding. We do live with free will as we are created by God who made us in his image - not as animals with only bodily instinct, not as angels with only spirit but as human beings with intellect to choose through our free will to seek Him ... or not. All of creation starting with our bodies as male and female reveal God to us. And yet in this great nation where the very foundation and its Constitution are built on Religious Liberty, we have become a nation that is eradicating God from our daily lives and yet He remains ever present to those who seek Him now in the face of tragedy. Thank God that He is there - He does not desert us even though we desert Him. (For those who don't know Him or don't know that He is there, I urge you to find out what you don't know: the factual history of the Bible itself is an amazing compilation of the different accounts of the one God and of God's resurrection from the dead as our promise of Eternal life because He overcame death and sin. He gave His life for us. It's amazing to hear of the individuals in Aurora willing to do the same in terms of sacrificing their lives to save their loved ones.) God did not "let bad things happen" but He is ever present when they do for those who now seek Him - He is there in the good times and the bad ... for all. All glory and honor is His; if only all our choices through free will were made to give glory and honor to God instead of continuing in our fallen state propagating evil whether in a theater shooting, in aborting the lives of unborn babies, or in the killing of our elderly and helpless, to name just a few. God doesn't "let evil happen" - that's the result of our choices through free will.

Bernitch, just because you can't find conclusive enough proof for yourself doesn't negate God's existence. You prattle on about your disbelief with so many comments when one is sufficient. You're only a burden on Christians because you are one more to pray for, not because of your supposed wisdom. The personal problem that some Christians face in praying for someone like you is staying strong in faith. On a human level you simply don't seem worth the time it takes. However we do know, notice I say know and not believe, that God does accomplish miracles and loves disbelievers as He loves his closest followers. People tend to look for answers when there are things they don't understand but often when it comes to God some find it much easier to say "I can't see Him or understand what it's about so therefore none of this exists." I hope when you meet Him it's in a good, happy and peaceful way.

As I set here this morning, looking at all the post. I must say that I am amazed! Life is what we make of it. The everlasting struggle between good and eval. God through his son Jesus against Satin. You see every person has there own God, and they call him by many names. But there is only on Satin and he has bet that more people will chose his way over God and Jesus's way. Satin thinks man is to Self centered and greedy, and easy to corrupt. Satin has bet on man to fail. In Satin's bet with God and Jesus, Satin said Jesus, if you think man is so good, then give him free will to chose right from wrong, and Jesus said Ok, As he love man so much and believed in us so much that we would make the right choices. But Jesus did or didn't know that Satin would do anything to win. Satin offered up sin to exploit mans weakness's. Sin like Greed, witch is man's greatest weakness. Taking the easy way out no mater who it might hurt. We all know sin, so I don't have to spell it out one by one. And you know, there are times Satin is winning. Yes Satin thinks he is winning. And then when Satin Lets hell go like he did on Friday, or 911 or any other times he has played HELL on us. There has always been those that will gladly give there lives to save others. Some times its a Police man or woman, Fire man/woman, Its them people that join our armed forces. And yes, sometimes its just a guy that jumps in front of a bullet and gives his live so someone else can live. You see, We" Man " make it so easy for Satin, We are week and most of all lazy. I say this to the Baby boomer Generation. This generation was the first generation to let Satin take over. They were the Me first generation. They think they should get paid and have to do nothing for it. Just give me, give me, give me. Look at Walstreet. Can't make money honestly, so they have lay, cheat and steel. They have to have there huge bonuses, keep those big houses, Cars, boats....... And the beat goes on. These are the people that start wars, because they have given there soles to Satin. They have taken the easy way, witch is cheat, and still from others, so they can live the High Life at others expense. Jesus talked about this. He went after the High Priest and called them out on it. He asked, How can you live like you do as a man of God, while so many suffer with so little? So they had him crucified, because he talked truth to power. So like Jesus, there is always someone that will stand up on the side of right over wrong. There will always be a fireman that will put his live on the live to save another. Satin just can't win. And Why Can't he win? Because although we don't always do the right things. In the end we all know right from wrong. Like the song says. "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything." I say believing in God, means believing in yourself. Ourselves. We may stumble sometimes, but in the end, people will do the right thing.

I think these things have to happen, to remind us that we are butter then this as a people. We have to stand up as a people and say enough, stop the madness. Stop taking the easy way out. Start doing what is good for America and Americans. Not just what is good for the Gun makers(NRA) We and have forced the car makers to make safer cars. We can force some control on Gun makers also. There is no reason on earth for a gun that can hold 100 rounds. A hand gun that holds 30 rounds. These are only made for one reason, killing people, Lots of people at one time. How many of these things have to happen before we wake up and do the right thing. We can have reasonable gun control, and not give up peoples rights to own firearms. But we can and must put limits on what firearms can be sold. Most of have no problem with hand guns, but have a problem with magazines that hold more then 10 shots. Same for long guns or rifles. My shoot gun holds 6 shells. My rifles about the same, with the except of my 22 that holds 10. That is more then enough for hunting. If someone breaks into my home, I can kill them dead with that for the most part. If I want to buy a hand gun, 10 rounds are more than enough, I can buy extra Magazines if I want. Our army's don't even use clips that hold 100 rounds. Why in the world would we let every day people have guns that can hold 100 rounds. We can and should have some control of what people can buy. It is the right thing to do.

curt, what you claim to know is BS. you have faith and nothing concrete or you would be able to show unquestionable proof.

chuck, your spelling isn't helping the argument that religous people are ignorant. i don't think Satin is causing any problems for us, it's actually a very soft fabric.

The lawd works in mysterious ways. Sorry, that's not a crutch that I lean on.

Bernitch, what proof do you have that He (God) does not exist?

Jesus against Satin.

Sounds like a fetish.

Can you say "satan the devil" do you think he might have a hand in this? Location - do you think that has something to do with it...come on this is a high drug trafficking area; drugs, thugs, guns you name it; you're living it there. Can you say sodom and gomorah? Remember what happened there...it wasn't God it was people. God doesn't cause bad things to happen...God is there to lean on and learn from. People make bad things happen depending on which way they choose to go in life. Those born into such an environment have no choice..and we can thank our capitalistic ways for that..they are trapped! Oh let's see maybe you want to blame that on people's beliefs too! Maybe you should take a look at your rightous self. (and don't forget the greed) Right.

mija, it's hard to prove a negative.

Mija-2089568

Bernitch, what proof do you have that He (God) does not exist?

How do you prove something doesn't exist? Hmmm.... I've never actually seen a zombie, but I've seen lots of movies that show zombies. If I had captured a zombie, disassembled it, and it still attempted to eat me, then I think I would have conclusively proven it's existence. To prove it doesn't exist...

First I'd have to search this entire planet. If I don't find a zombie, maybe they exist on other planets. I'd have to build an interstellar spaceship and visit each and ever planet orbiting every star, in every galaxy throughout the entire universe. Wait... That doesn't rule out the Multiverse (infinite number of universes). Now I'll need an inter-dimension, interstellar spacecraft and perform the same survey I conducted in my universe across all the universe.

Dang it... I'm going to find a zombie somewhere around here...

Point of fact. Stating "Yeah... But prove something doesn't exist" is a two year old's response to a father saying, "There are no monster's under your bed" and the kid replies, "Yeah, but there was one there a minute ago, and he'll be back once you're gone".

It's a false argument of logic to request that people prove that something has nonexistence.

If the thing does not exist, there is no proof of that non-existence (unless you want to count all the inconsistencies in the Bible which clearly show it to be a fictional work of art rather than a truly historical document about the history of our planet from the creation until the supposed life and death of Jesus).

"I'm tired of people perceiving things differently than I do and formulating opinions that are different from my own." That's basically what you mean, right, Aaron?

No... I think what Aaron meant, Alphonse, is these people's absolutely false perceptions which exist outside of science, reason, and fact. It's almost like a disease of the mind that may require treatment up to and including lobotomy's and electro-shock therapy. It's a horribly debilitating condition that is just wrecking havoc with our society.

Bernitch

And yet, you still have no proof that your cult-god exists! You babble about it, you claim it does, you assert it does, you even screech that it does... But you don't have one shred of evidence to support your silly, outrageous claims. So, don't whine at other people for simply being factual in their statements. Cheers!

Bernitch,

This will be enjoyed!

Sorrowfully, either you never had a connection with God, or you did have one and lost it.

You rant about "babbling and whining."

Yet ostensibly, you FAILED to disprove every statement that was made:

Ok, "Mr. human beings evolved from monkeys," you and your fellow atheists can tell this forum :

Why does the sun always rise in the east and always sets in the west.

If the sun's cycle and precision were disrupted, a physicist can deluge you with the catastrophic results:

Frozen and uninhabitable lands, frozen rivers, destroyed and depleted crops and famine for mankind!

You and your fellow atheists can tell this forum why the earth and the other planets never jettison off of their orbits. Why? Because God, the most supreme being, created and planned the sustained order of the universe.

What God has planned, stays in place.

What mankind touches, overwhelmingly is ruined...look at the big hole that we have blasted in the ozone layer, the extinction of animals that we have caused, the greed and division that we have erected among ourselves.

Bernitch, disprove that you cannot live on the Mercury.

Because of the extreme heat of Mercury, your can would literally burn up into obliteration.

Do not forget that there is no oxygen on the above planet.

You can try living on Neptune. However, on this planet, you will freeze.

All planets except Earth are unfit for human habitation. Why? Because that is how God planned it.

Disprove that we expel carbon monoxide, that trees need. Disprove that trees give off oxygen that human beings need.

Bernitch, tell us where else in our solar system that the above exchange of oxygen/carbon monoxide takes place.

Contrary to all of the genetic engineering, scientists cannot make a lion give birth to a bear.

Why? Because God planned each species to reproduce according to its "own kind."

Disprove the magnificence of the human body.

Why are being born with lungs to breathe, a heart to pump blood and provide oxygen to all of our organs, a liver to detoxify chemicals, a stomach to start the acidic process of digestion, small intestines to absorb vital nutrients, a colon to eliminate toxic waste, kidneys to further rid the body of toxins, a pancreas to produce insulin for proper food digestion, a brain to think, contemplate, reflect, feel, plan, and love.

There are many animals that have organs for basic existence. However, many of them do not have the sensory pleasures of sight, hearing and smell. Why? Because God made human beings to "have life abundantly."

The fundamentals of the electrical and magnetic system of your computer was created by God.

Pitifully, you have failed to realize that the very fingers that you typed your "evolution theory" with, were given to you by God.

Bernitch, have you ever thought about jumping off of a building? Do not do this!

Unlike birds and majestic eagles, you will not fly and soar.

Quickly, the above reflection should cause you to appreciate the wonders of GRAVITY.

You do not see gravity, but you know (it is hoped) that this force exists.

When the astronauts go into space, so that they will survive in space, they have to recreate as much as possible earth's environment.

The famous and outstanding astronaut, Jim Lovell, can tell you how good it feel to be on earth!

You and your fellow atheist speak against God. But not one of you can disprove the superb splendor of his creation.

Bernith, "Someone is trying to make a monkey out of you."

Proverbs, "It is a fool that says there is no God."

If you have manage to get a P.H.D., with respect to our superior being, it is hoped that one day...you will elevate yourself to "Passed Having Doubts."

You state, "cheers,"

To you, it is stated...

"in spite of your rejection of God, you have been blessed."

Wiz-3385151

@25walker. If your god wants humans to believe in him, all he has to do is reveal himself to us like he did to others.If god exist then why do people suffer? Why do we doubt him? Why does he get to judge us? We didnt ask to be born, so why is it we were forced to be born and then some of us made to suffer eternally? Your god does not make sense, because he does not exist.

Wiz,

God has revealed himself.

Our supreme being surrounds you.

He demonstrates himself in his flowers, rivers, lakes, forest, moon, and the necessity of his rain.

Because of sin, people suffer.

Many or our heartaches are self-created...envy, selfishness, hate, etc.

Because he is our creator and righteous, he "gets to judge us."

We didnt ask to be born, so why is it we were forced to be born

We may not have been asked to be born. However, life comes from God.

and then some of us made to suffer eternally?

Scripture is clear on this...

"the day will come when every tear will be wiped dry and suffering will be no more."

...our president also referenced the above scripture.

We do not understand every aspect of God. If we did, we would be his equal.

Thank him that we are not his equal.

Your statement, that he does not exist, is refuted by all of his creation.

Sorrowfully, either you never had a connection with God, or you did have one and lost it.

What does this mean? You go outside, commune with nature and think some magical guy in the sky is whispering in your ear? In a quiet room, you mistake your own inner monologue that your consciousness and subconscious has as the word of God? You see a guy on the street with a sign that says, "Will work for food", and think to yourself, "Yeah, God let's me work for food - He's talking to me". I swear to God (ha ha) some people are just daffy as hell.

Why does the sun always rise in the east and always sets in the west.

If the sun's cycle and precision were disrupted, a physicist can deluge you with the catastrophic results:

Frozen and uninhabitable lands, frozen rivers, destroyed and depleted crops and famine for mankind!

You and your fellow atheists can tell this forum why the earth and the other planets never jettison off of their orbits. Why? Because God, the most supreme being, created and planned the sustained order of the universe.

How do the laws of physics and Kepler's laws of Planetary Motion indicate that there is a God? That's not proof you dolt.

You and your fellow atheist speak against God. But not one of you can disprove the superb splendor of his creation.

God has revealed himself.

Our supreme being surrounds you.

He demonstrates himself in his flowers, rivers, lakes, forest, moon, and the necessity of his rain.

When my children were small, they always assumed there was a monster under their bed or hiding in their closet. They had active imaginations. Because they were little, not very mature, and had limited capacity to understand the world around them; they saw the Boogey-Man wherever they looked.

Again, you just can't be a simpleton, point at everything you see and say, "Look at that flower. God! Look at the grass. God! Look at the sky. God! That lake. God. That bird. God.".

That's not proof. It's simply disingenuous and intellectually lazy. The equivalent of saying, "I don't like to think for myself, so my imaginary friend, God, is the answer for EVERYTHING". Get your nose out of that damn Bible and read a couple of science books.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Your next statement.

We do not understand every aspect of God. If we did, we would be his equal.

Thank him that we are not his equal.

More proof that your are indeed a bit of a simpleton and extremely intellectually lazy. "We do not understand every aspect of God"? Sounds like we need to accelerate and advance our science even more. But then you say, "Thank him that we are not his equal".. Ah ha... Bet I know what you would say about advancing our science to understand the universe better: "Who are we to mess with God's Universe?" Science needs to stop doing what they're doing!

You're one of THOSE people who prefer keeping yourself and those around you dumb as dirt. Dumb people love God and Jesus. They don't have to think. They don't have to reason. God and Jesus answer all their life questions. Guess we could say that God and Jesus are the patron saints of stupid people everywhere.

Anjisan1963

Sorrowfully, either you never had a connection with God, or you did have one and lost it.

What does this mean?

Anjisan,

The sentence means this: along with you, Bernitch has rejected his creator.

You go outside, commune with nature and think some magical guy in the sky is whispering in your ear?

No one has to "go outside" to communicate with God.

From your "library of mankind's accomplishments" you breathe our supreme being's air.

The pages that you scan came from wood. The wood came from the trees. God gave us the trees.

Only because God was gracious enough to give you a pair of optic nerves, can your brain transmit signals from the brain, through the optic nerve, to the eye. This transmission allows you to ascertain the visual images that are in your scientific books.

your own inner monologue

"inner monologue?"

You have just described the wonders of prayer.

that your consciousness and subconscious

God instilled in us a conscience.

Your spelling is errant.

Morally, this conscience (or should) tells us what right and what is wrong.

The sub conscience is instinctive.

To stabilize our body and avert serious injuries, when we physically fall, immediately we try to grab an object, such as a stairwell handle. How wonderful God is!

You see a guy on the street with a sign that says, "Will work for food",

Your perception of the above scenario is seriously flawed.

There is enough food to feed the entire planet.

However, mankind's greed and selfishness does not permit the fair distribution of food.

Facts confirm the above fact.

How do the laws of physics and Kepler's laws of Planetary Motion indicate that there is a God?

Your "intellectual integrity" is low.

Kepler, an astronomer, did not make the laws of astronomy. Nor did he make the laws of physics.

Kepler only explained God's order in the universe.

Because mankind cannot decipher our creator's unsurpassed intelligence, does not mean that any man or woman is responsible for his genius.

that's not proof you dolt.

Anjisan, tell this forum what the odds are for the astounding precision that we see in the solar system randomly occurring.

The odds are incalculable.

You will holler, "the Big Bang theory."

Provide irrefutable proof that the big bang theory exists.

They had active imaginations...they were little, not very mature, and had limited capacity to understand the world around them.

Our imaginations are another wonderment of God.

As human beings, we first image, before we bring to fruition concepts and ideas.

Examples...the positive use of radio waves, electromagnetism and sound waves in the use of medicine.

Do you know that by watching the birds, mankind devised the airplane? Do not be arrogant and say "no."

Anjisan, watch a bird.

Watch the bird "take off." He will move his legs backwards, tuck them underneath him and spread his wings. For a smooth "landing," he will outstretch his legs and glide downward. With tons of more mechanics than that of a bird, airplanes simulate the same procedures and motions for successful flights.

you just can't be a simpleton,

You are spiritually blind.

God's wonders surround you. Yet, you and your fellow atheists reject him.

It's simply disingenuous and intellectually lazy

The intelligentsia have tried to explain the wonders of "the grass, the sky, the lake and the birds."

Their theories are incomplete.

Get your nose out of that damn Bible

On a night stand, the bible is kept.

A copy of the bible is always available and easily accessible.

There are even several digital copies.

Use the link below to get a free bible mailed to you:

http://christianity.about.com/od/practicaltools/ht/freebible.htm

2 Tim: 3:7 [You are] "Always learning but can never arrive at the truth."

read a couple of science books

He is gracious enough to allow us to learn about his scientific principles.

extremely intellectually lazy

Job 11:7 "Can you fathom the mysteries of God?"

"Who are we to mess with God's Universe?"

Anjisan, do you know that there is debris that has been left on the moon?

You're one of THOSE people who prefer keeping yourself and those around you dumb as dirt

Fruitlessly, you have wasted your time trying to dispel the word of God.

Are you aware that God also made "time." We have had to move back our spring clocks earlier - to keep pace with his cycles.

Dumb people love God and Jesus.

Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart there is no God."

Science has proved that people who are correctly spiritually connected are healthier and they live longer.

Arrogantly, you have advocated Darwinism.

The "principles" that you laud drops a person into a higher probability of poor health and early death.

Now!

Who is the "dumb" one!

On Sunday, you will be prayed for.

...say your prayers tonight...you will sleep like a baby!

You go ahead and pray for me if you think that will help. Meanwhile, I'll continue to worry and fret over the continued existence of mankind on this planet knowing that there are people like you wandering over the face of this Earth contaminating it with your falsehoods and wishful thinking.

I love that you just KNOW. What do you know? Don't tell me your beliefs, tell me what you absolutely, categorically know positively and uniequvocally!

By the way...

God instilled in us a conscience.

Your spelling is errant.

No, my spelling is fine. Conscience, Consciousness, Unconsciousness, Subconscious. I guess if these words aren't in the Bible, you have little need to learn them, hmmmm?

...but back to you telling me all about your factual evidence you have that proves without any glimmer of doubt that there is a God. I am really quite excited to be converted by the glaring light of your righteousness.

You say things like:

Because mankind cannot decipher our creator's unsurpassed intelligence

and:

Kepler, an astronomer, did not make the laws of astronomy

and:

Are you aware that God also made "time." We have had to move back our spring clocks earlier - to keep pace with his cycles.

etc, etc, etc...

None of these things prove anything. Of course Kepler didn't make the Laws of Astronomy. Are you two? He was a scientist. By direct observations and empirical experimentation he simply noted the laws, confirmed the laws, and published the laws. Laws of PHYSICS. If you read any science book, and if you look up Kepler's laws, I don't think you're going to find a footnote that says, "These laws of Planetary Motion are brought to you by the Supreme Being, Zeus". (It is Zeus we're talking about here, right? He was always my favorite God).

Back to your absolutely nonsensical ravings. God did not make time. Just because you read that he might have in one book (the Bible) are you telling me that this is the extent of your studies? The reason we "Spring Forward" and "Fall Back", genius, is because of the US Government. Yep, in order to make more efficient use of summer daylight hours, our government adopted this practice and it was first recommended by Benjamin Franklin. Not the Bible.

Holy cow... Do you ever listen to yourself. Google something every now and then. I think you have a computer; otherwise, how could you post such nonsense on the web... Unless... You're doing it with your mind bolstered by the power of GOD!!!!

OOooooOOOoooOOoooohhh... Some people need to get out from under the rock every now and then.

One last thing... My spelling is errant... OOooooOOOoooOOoooohhh is spelled OoOoOoOoOoOOOOOhhhh!

...and now for some levity (because 25Walker has drank the koolaid, has his purple sneakers on, and has driven me a little insane with his insanity)...

A bit from Monty Python, livened up for this particular audience:

GOD: Old woman.

Me: Man.

GOD: Man, sorry. What priest lives in that church over there?

Me: I'm 37.

GOD: What?

Me: I'm 37. I'm not old.

GOD: Well I can't just call you "man".

Me: Well you could say "Anjisan".

GOD: I didn't know you were called Anjisan.

Me: Well you didn't bother to find out did you?

GOD: I did say sorry about the "old woman", but from behind you looked...

Me: What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior.

GOD: Well I am God.

Me: Oh, God eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the feeble-minded believers. By hanging on to outdated religious dogma which perpetuates the economic, social, and religious differences in our society.

GOD: I am your God.

Bystander: Well I didn't vote for you.

GOD: You don't vote for Gods.

Bystander: Well how'd you become God then?

[Angelic music plays... ]

GOD: The Lake Lady of Unfounded Hopes, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft special "Jesus Juice" from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, God, was to create the Universe. THAT is why I am your God.

Me: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' Holy Power is no basis for a system of religion. Supreme Universal power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

GOD: [Impatiently] Yes....

Me: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme galactic power just because some watery tart threw a bit of magical ju-ju juice to you.

GOD: [Impatiently] Okay....

Me: Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was The Lord, just because some moistened bint lobbed a little power my way, they'd put me away.

GOD: [attempting to smite me with lightning] I've had enough of this....

Me: [dodging] Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

GOD: Bloody atheist!

Me: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn't you?

Anjisan1963

You go ahead and pray for me

Anjisan,

You will be prayed for. 1 Timothy 2:1 "I urge that prayers be made for all people."

This above scripture is a directive, to also pray for you.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to worry and fret over the continued existence of mankind

You should be concerned.

Our planet is stockpiled with nuclear weapons.

One of the scientist that created nuclear weapons, became grief stricken after seeing the devastation that nuclear weapons cause. Unfortunately, man has used God's great creation of "nuclear fission" to master mayhem and destroy the planet.

there are people like you wandering over the face of this Earth contaminating it with your falsehoods

You have described the darkness of Darwinism.

tell me what you absolutely, categorically know positively and uniequvocally!

That you absolutely, categorically, positively and unequivocally speak against the word of God, you deny his existence and that you are 100% wrong.

No, my spelling is fine. Conscience, Consciousness

Your grammar is improper.

Conscience and conscious are commonly confused words.

The noun conscience means "the sense of what is right and wrong."

The adjective conscious means "being aware" or "deliberate."

Refer to your books of knowledge.

I am really quite excited to be converted by the glaring light of your righteousness

You are free to reject God's word. You can follow the ways of man. You will be disappointed.

If you or one of your loved ones becomes gravely ill, you will be the first to fall on your knees and cry out to God. Proverbs 3:5 "Do not lean on you own understanding."

If you read any science book, and if you look up Kepler's laws, I don't think you're going to find a footnote that says, "These laws of Planetary Motion are brought to you by the Supreme Being, Zeus"

In your atheist angst, you have failed to make an important distinction:

Kepler did not create the laws of the precision and the motions of the planets.

Kepler did not create the laws of physics.

God gifted the above scientist to a degree that allowed this man of knowledge to understand, an infinitesimal amount of our solar system.

The God Zeus is an ancient Greek God. Zeus is a false God...stay away from him.

Greek mythology is not a favorite subject.

God did not make time.

If God did not make "time," who did?

On your watch, see the seconds turn into minutes. Watch how the minutes turn into hours, how the hours blossom into days. With each passing day, you will see the seasons change. Observe how the Summer will sway into the Fall; how the Fall will turn into the Winter; how the Winter will shift into the Spring. Notice that strawberries are grow best in Summer season and that beets and squash grow best in the winter. If a superior being is not responsible for this magnificent time and healthy food harvest coordination, then who is?

Yes, we all know about greenhouses.

the extent of your studies

Higher education delves deeper into our existence and the universe.

Intellectually acuity confirms the existence of God.

The reason we "Spring Forward" and "Fall Back", genius, is because of the US Government. Yep, in order to make more efficient use of summer daylight hours,

As the seasons change, the days become shorter or longer. When the days become shorter, we have less daylight. As our carbon footprint is already hugely large (think about the big hole that we have blasted in the ozone layer,) our government rightfully wants to conserve energy. We also need more daylight to be productive. You keep supporting scripture:

2Thessolonians 3:10 "A man that does not work, shall not eat."

it was first recommended by Benjamin Franklin.

Againk you are wrong.

William Willett introduced the human concept of daylight savings time.

Do you ever listen to yourself

It is prayed: Psalm 19:14 "Let the words of my mouth be pleasing in your sight, O Lord."

I think you have a computer;

Are you aware of the computer's chassis, motherboard, heat sink, optical drives, RAM, and switches?

Do you know what the above parts of a computer do?

You're doing it with your mind bolstered by the power of GOD!!!!

All gifts come from God.

Some people need to get out from under the rock every now and then

Finally, you are correct.

You need to extricate yourself from your self-imposed evolutionary Ice Age!

One last thing...OOooooOOOoooOOoooohhh is spelled OoOoOoOoOoOOOOOhhhh

The anxiety of the godless!!!

In this "debate," why did you not ask Darwin to help you? You cannot.

As the bible tells us, he has returned to dust.

Anjisan, a prayer chain will be requested for you.

Anjisan1963

...and now for some levity (because 25Walker has drank the koolaid

You feign humor.

You are hiding confusion.

Find a bible-based church...there, you will find true answers.

When you speak about the "Darkness of Darwin" you are speaking out against knowledge. Darwin's theories have been proven and demonstrated in the lab and field, time and time again. His theories on natural selection are probably one of the most tested theories of all time.

When you refer to it as the "Darkness of Darwin" you are actual saying, "Knowledge is bad". You continue to make statements which are just so glaringly incorrect and lacking any factual data that you really come across as a bumpkin. Let me key you in on some thing.

A couple thousand years from now, IF we survive this period of time where we have people who think like you while the planet is stockpiled with nuclear weapons, there will be a word in human language which will be banned.

It will be the most reviled word known to man, it will be a word associated with the most grief, and known to cause the most harm. That word is "Faith". Any human, in the future, will know that when someone says "Have faith in me", they are about to be swindled, confused, or manipulated in some way.

Should I believe the Used Car Salesman when he say, "Have faith - this little baby was driven by a little old lady from Pasadena, and only on Sundays"? Should I believe the politician who says, "Trust me - I have your best interests at heart"? Should I believe the Nigerian chap who sends me an email telling me to trust him on this business deal that'll net me a million bucks if I just allow him to transfer some money through my bank? Should I trust any purported religious man who tells me to have faith in their unsupported belief system?

Faith is an absolutely insidious evil word that should be eradicated from human language. It sounds so wholesome and good. It suggests the very best of mankind. But, what it sounds like and what it suggests are not what it brings. About the only proper use of "Faith" is "Faith through Verification".

Do I have "Faith" in Darwin's studies? I absolutely do. His theories have been substantiated and verified. Wait. You discount his theories. But his theories have been proven through scientific experimentation and testing. You speak out against that which is true. This means that you are speaking falsehoods. More empirical testing. If you're speaking a falsehood about Darwinism, then the entire content of everything you have written is suspect.

You have now proved yourself to either be a liar (at worst) or a very deluded man (at best).

In this "debate," why did you not ask Darwin to help you? You cannot.

What? Are you nuts? Darwin was a man with a theory, who died, and is no longer with us. He lives on in our memories and the wealth of scientific information he gathered and left behind and that is it.

Why would I ask a dead man for help? It'd achieve the same results as asking a fictional man in the sky for help. Zero help.

Frankly 25Walker, you seem to be saying throughout your posts: Forget about all that science stuff. Trust only in the Bible. That worries me. When people are opposed to education and knowledge (or reject knowledge when it doesn't jive with their faith and what they want to believe in [Sorry Darwin was right - get over it]). I'm going to end this conversation now because I'm tired of the falsehoods your spewing to support your unsupportable view. But, I am going to end this conversation with this:

Christianity in our country is trying awfully hard to impose themselves into our government. In order to ensure they have lots of potential voters to pull from, the far-right, very Christian, Texas GOP stated the following in their 2012 Platform:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

I can only weep for the future as I ponder the exact meaning of what the Texas GOP is trying to accomplish. Your goals 25Walker. You should be proud of yourself.

Anjisan,

"Do I have "Faith" in Darwin's studies? I absolutely do. His theories have been substantiated and verified. "

Maybe you should read the book Darwinian Fairy Tales: Selfish Genes, Errors of Heredity, and Other Fables of Evolution by David Stove. Believe it or not, there actually are legitimate philosophical and scientific objections to Darwinism, although the theory of evolution is usually taught in our schools as dogmatically as religion. It is not only religious fundamentalists who question it. Philosophers and even some biologists also question it. This is, in part, what the back cover of that book says:

"Stove is no "creationist." He is not a proponent of "intelligent design"." He is a man of "no religion", a theological skeptic who admits Darwin's "great genius" and acknowledges that the theory of natural selection is the most successful biological theory in history."

"But Stove also thinks that Darwinism is one of the most overblown of contemporary scientific dogmas. In Darwinian Fairytales, he provides a penetrating inventory of what the "unbelievable claims" of Darwinism, from its classic formulation in the nineteenth century through contemporary variations of neo-Darwinism such a E.O. Wilson and Richard Dawkins."

"David Stove as born in 1927 in Moree, New South Wales, Australia, and taught philosophy at the University of New South Wales and the University of Sidney. He was an expert on the philosophy of David Hume and a widely published polemical journalist. He completed Darwinian Fairytales shortly before his death in 1994."

So you see, there are educated people as well as religious fundamentalists who are skeptical of the theory of evolution. Not all biologists accept it without question, although it is hazardous to one's career as a biologist to deny it. Science can sometimes be every bit as dogmatic as religion, and dogmatic scientists often become furious at anyone who dares to question their "scientific" authority. They can be as bad as the Catholic Church in that respect.

Ya see... Here's the deal... If someone with a biological, biochemistry, anthropological background or any of the other life sciences wanted to write a book about whether or not the biological theory of evolution and natural selection was flawed, then I would pay a great deal of heed to that author.

"David Stove as born in 1927 in Moree, New South Wales, Australia, and taught philosophy at the University of New South Wales and the University of Sidney. He was an expert on the philosophy of David Hume and a widely published polemical journalist.

David Stove was a philosopher. Nothing more. He was not a scientist. He simply spent his life contemplating his navel, wondering about human nature, and pondering whether thinking really meant that he was. All David engages in are name games. Because Darwin chose the unfortunate term "Selfish Gene" to describe the successful gene as the gene that can gather the most life sustaining capacities for itself; David wrote an entire book about "How can a Gene be selfish, it's not like it has the capacity to carry this emotion". Brilliant, and academically shady on David's part.

Your post actually give David Stove away as an untrustworthy point of view when, within your text, it states that David was a widely published polemical journalist.

Polemical is defined as:

1. A controversial argument, especially one refuting or attacking a specific opinion or doctrine.
2. A person engaged in or inclined to controversy, argument, or refutation.

So, David Stove was a non-scientist who like to generate a lot of controversy by refuting specific opinions or doctrines. Sounds to me like you're defining just about any religious nut who denies science simply to deny science.

Anjison,

"David Stove was a philosopher. Nothing more. He was not a scientist."

I expected such a reaction from you, and that is exactly how science becomes dogmatic. You forget a few things. First of all is that science itself is an outgrowth of philosophy and is still subject to philosophical criticism. That is why we have a branch of philosophy called "the philosophy of science". Secondly, you forget that no scientific theory is ever beyond criticism. Science does not deal in absolute truths. That is the realm of religion. All scientific "truth" is a matter of probability and is subject to change as the evidence supporting it changes. You might want to check out this site for a list of 10 scientific theories that were once accepted as true, but have since been either totally rejected or modified:

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-famous-scientific-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-wrong.php

That is just a short list of 10 such theories. There have been many more than that. I am not arguing the pro's and con's of the theory of evolution. I am simply pointing out the fact that it is generally assumed that anyone who has objections to it or who rejects it outright must be some sort of ignorant religious fanatic. That is simply not true. There are many educated people who have reservations to the theory of evolution, and if you do not, one has to wonder how truly educated you are or whether or not you are simply accepting something that has been presented to you dogmatically as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Your low opinion of philosophy only adds to any suspicion about your education. The fact that David Stove was a philosopher in no way detracts from the validity of his criticisms. To think so is to commit the "ad Hominem" fallacy in logic. Science itself is based on certain philosophical assumptions, and no one is in a better position to criticize those assumptions than one who is trained in philosophy. Nor does the fact that David Stove served as a polemical journalist detract from the validity of his arguments. No argument is invalid just because it is controversial.

I do accept that there may be variations in how evolution and natural selection works. There has been a lot of work towards integrating the Chaos Theory of mathematics into explaining some components to Darwin's theory.

My main objection to David Stone is not his background in philosophy. It is his background as a Polemical Journalist. Someone who takes a controversial stance simply for the sake of generating controversy. Anyone who approaches an issue to generate controversy rather than generate useful data regardless of how well crafted their argument may be should have their data considered with the utmost suspicion.

Anjisan,

"Someone who takes a controversial stance simply for the sake of generating controversy. Anyone who approaches an issue to generate controversy rather than generate useful data regardless of how well crafted their argument may be should have their data considered with the utmost suspicion."

I would agree with that. I don't like arguing just for the sake of arguing. But I don't know that he was just generating controversy for that sake of generating controversy. He was a Darwinist himself; he did not reject the theory in its totality. I think he just had serious reservations about the theory.

The theory of evolution is the most fully supported scientific theory in the biological sciences. People are making new discoveries based on evolutionary science every day.

People are suppressing these new discoveries based on religious dogma every day..... until they need a life saving medical procedure, then they seem to accept the science of it.

primate guy

The theory of evolution

primate guy,

Evolution is "a theory." It is a false theory.

supported scientific theory in the biological sciences

If evolution was valid, you would be in a constant state of evolvement. From last year, have you evolved into a more "superior and fit state?" Absolutely not. In fact, your physical being was probably better last year, than it is this year. Mankind and the galaxy are in the foundational physical states that God wanted these entities to be in. Scripture tells us about further refinement in our existence.

People are making new discoveries based on evolutionary science every day.

Mankind's positions are constantly changing. Some of the above discoveries are valid. Such validity can be found in improvements in medical diagnostic imaging, fuel efficiency and food production. Regarding evolution, any expansion of this false theory is an extention of a Big Lie.

suppressing these new discoveries based on religious dogma

There is nothing scientific about evolution. Evolution is science fiction.

until they need a life saving medical procedure,

Amazing! You speak of saving life.

God created life. Without the life that God created, there would be no life to save.

then they seem to accept the science of it.

Our supreme being is a God of science. Our physical beings, the oceans, the lakes, the rivers, the forests, the birds, the skies, the clouds, the water, the rocks, the marine life, the vegetation, are replete with science, his science. What mankind knows is the science that God created.

Do not confused the ability to understand his wonders with the ability to create his wonders.

Evolution is the religion of atheists.

koo koo... Just plain koo koo.

25Walker has entered the Twilight Zone where everything is backwards. Truth is lies, lies are the only truth, and belief in make-believe is more powerful than belief in reality.

Okay... Past my slacked jaw disbelief at the incredibly inane statements 25Walker has just made. Not just inane, bordering on the completely retarded. Here is my actual response to his ludicrous load of manure:

It's painfully obvious that 25Walker barely got out of third grade. Had he make it to fourth grade, he might have learned the difference between evolution (changes over a long period of time) and mutation (change over a short duration of time). Mutations are sporadic accidents that happen, and could happen any time. Evolution though the designs of natural selection take many, many, many generations to affect. We are pretty much as we first were 60,000 to 200,000 years ago when we walked this planet with at least two other species of humans (Neandrathal and Cro-Magnon). Still, over the past couple of hundred years we have some slight changes. For instance, today's male and female are slightly taller than our predecessors from 200 years ago. This is because of better medicine that allows us to grow up healthier.

The faithful like to argue about the impossibility that human life evolved from lessor lifeforms. They like to argue creation theory about everything: Where did the ground come from? Where did the sky come from? Who made the laws of physics? Who created life?

There's always gotta be a source? Here are two explanations of how the universe came to be:

#1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. In this theory, God is a supremely powerful "All-Being" possessing Omnipotence (unlimited power), Omnipresence (existing everywhere at once), and Omniscience (knowing everything about everything).

#2 - 12-15 Billion years ago, the Universe existed in a nearly infinitely dense, hot state which experienced a singularity which caused the rapid expansion and cooling of the universe. This is the Big Bang theory which most people in the scientific community accept due to its ability to accurately and comprehensively explain a broad range of astronomical phenomena.

These two explanations for the existence of the Universe are what 99% of this planet believes. One or the other.

Occam's Razor is known as the Law of Parsimony, Economy, or Succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select from among competing hypotheses THAT which makes the fewest assumptions.

Extremely religious people like to do the backwards logic thing.... If our planet was formed because of the formation of our sun, what formed our sun? If our sun was formed out of our galaxy's gaseous states, then what formed our galaxy? If our galaxy was formed as a result of the expanding universe, what caused the universe to expand? If the universe is expanding because of the Big Bang, what caused the Big Bang? What? Don't Know. I do. GOD!!!

The Universe evolves too. Here's the thing. The universe tends to run from simple mechanisms and processes to more complex mechanisms and processes. For instance: Hydrogen is the most abundant element found in the universe. It was estimated that Hydrogen was the first element to form after the big bang (within seconds). Also, it is estimated that for about 20 minutes after the big bang, the entire universe as it existed was in a universe-wide state of nuclear fusion producing deuterium, helium, lithium elements. As time passed, these elements coalesced and formed into enormous primordial clouds. Due to their mass, these clouds started to compress in on themselves, and the first stars were born as a result of gravity, pressure, heat, and fuel (the first elements). As stars burn through their fuel, collapse in on themselves, and burn-out, they make other elements. Everything single atom in the universe (including the atoms you are made of) were manufactured in the heart of an ancient star somewhere back in time.

Simple to complex. What caused the Big Bang to occur? Some suggest that a black hole in an alternate universe sucked in so much matter over time, that this trapped material caused a singularity to occur which initiated the formation of our Universe. Others suggest that like the expansion we're seeing with our Universe, older universes start to experience contractions which result in a universe collapsing in on itself until it's no bigger than a dot on the head of a pin whereby the infinite amount of mass in a tiny amount of space explodes outward creating a brand new universe (theoretically, our 13.75 Billion year old Universe may be on it 100 Billionth expansion outward after experiencing 99,999,999,999 contractions... (or more). Whatever the case. Simple to complex. One day we weren't here, and then boom. An event took place that has been building complexities into the universe ever since.

...Or... An infinitely supreme being with all knowledge, all power, and existing everywhere at once created the Universe, just for us. He made us in his own image, and we're his special pet project. However, we're ascribing the creation of the universe to what can arguably be stated as the most complex thing in the entire universe. And, if this God existed prior to the creation of the Universe, then where was he residing? Would this be Heaven? Where does Heaven exist in relationship to where we exist in this universe? Many people state that God has a direct line of communications with them, and they with him (through prayer). How is this information transported to God?

The concept of a God makes people feel good. Here's a fella who has your back. He's thinking about you, even when times are bad. He has a special place for you when you die if you're good, and a not-so-special place for you if you're not good. God is also convenient as hell...

• Why are we here? GOD!
• Who made us? GOD!
• Why is the world the way it is? GOD!
• Science, Physics, Astronomy, Archaeology, Anthropology, Philosophy - These are all really hard subjects. Can't someone explain the world to me? Yes. GOD!

But your religious logic fails when it's applied back on you:

• If God made us, then who made God: GOD was always here.
• Everything has a beginning and end, what is God's beginning and end? GOD is timeless and eternal.
• If God exists, then how many God's exist in his line of people? There is only the one and only GOD, there are no others!
• But God had a son that he sent down to Earth, If God had a son, then he should have parents. Who are God's parents? GOD doesn't have parents. GOD is GOD!!! End of story.

Logic and reason clearly suggest that if our Universe has a creator, then our Creator must have a Creator? Nobody likes to talk about that though. GOD is GOD is the extent of that conversation. The scientists view? A singular event, a massive explosion, the creation of Hydrogen, followed by the other elements. Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon forms. Hydrogen and Oxygen bond together to form water. Elements form molecules. Molecules start to clump together to form matter, and based on the types of molecules chemical reactions start to take place. Stars are popping up everywhere. Matter that isn't dense enough to form a star tends to clump together in swirling masses around the host star and form planets. Earth is formed, and comets and meteors bombard the planet bringing material and water together. Chemical reactions start to take place amongst organic molecules. Chemical reactions become biochemical reactions. Life takes root. 600 Million years later, here we are. All because of a few bits of chance, and the steady progression of natural selection.

I've had discussions with very religious people who claim the only evidence they need to prove God's existence is the human eye. "Look how complex it is. It's ability to differentiate between light and dark. It's ability to discern millions of different colors. How could this just miraculously appear? Some intelligent source of creation must be behind this vastly incomprehensible organ". To these folks, Darwin is nothing more than a snake-oil salesman from the old west. They don't want explanations, they simply want you to accept that God designed these eyes and that was it.

A very clear violation of Occam's Razor, and completely ignoring evolution and natural selection. Eyes have been evolving, on Earth, for about 500-600 million years. That's a lot of time for trial and error. The first forms of eyes were nothing more than photoreceptors which could tell the difference between dark and light. This was useful for setting daily rhythms, and photoperiodism (develop response to judge the length of a day). As species started to differentiate and form new species, those creatures with the newly formed eyespots could now sense the direction they were traveling in as well as the intensity of light. Next came eyepatches where the creature could determine the differences in direction of light. Pits were also forming under the eyepatches to shield some of the light sensitive cells from being overexposed.

Slow, natural progression from simple to complex over a great amount of time... That's how evolution works. Not in the blink of an eye, and not as our educationally challenged 25Walker states: "If evolution was valid, you would be in a constant state of evolvement. From last year, have you evolved into a more "superior and fit state?" Absolutely not."

One last thought... If anyone agrees with 25Walker that evolution is false because we're no different than we were last year, please sign your name to this post.

We're taking names, and trying to figure out how to get all you people into therapy.

Old testement had GOD as a real creep vidictive over bearing and mean. Did not set well so along came THE NEW TESTEMENT and the new GOD bewcame a softer more likable GOD. With his hand he inscribed the ten commandments and said thou shall not have any gods before me...Wait say that again....back up where did these other Gods come from if God is the only God and since he is perfect how did he create the Devil....and why must all thos Chinese people and the indians in the Americas who at the time had no way of knowing anything about Israel and the middle east go to hell because they were not included in the game? Me thinks the Rev here is finally waking up and putting two and two together. I think when we die thats it. We get the same thing the Muslim terrorists get when they blow themselves up hoping to find the elusive 72 virgins that also do not exist. Me I am in tune with Deism. Most of the founding fathers were Diests. They believe that something created the universe but has nothing to do with its further evolution...Since the light we see from distant stars left those stars a billion years ago something is wrong with the seven day thingy becauis that only works for the planet we sit on....

Anjisan1963

When you speak about the "Darkness of Darwin" you are speaking out against knowledge

God is a superior being of knowledge.

Knowledge has not been spoken against.

The falseness of evolution has been exposed.

Our life-sustaining planet, and its astounding order and variety, confirms the existence of a higher intelligent being.

Darwin's theories have been proven

Darwin's "academic acrobats" failed to prove the evolution.

Darwin misled himself. Scientists have only explained the God's scientific laws.

His theories on natural selection

Accurately, scripture describes "natural selection."

Natural selection is greed. Psalm 74:9 "they take possession of the earth."

You continue to make statements which are just so glaringly incorrect

With not one fact, have you successfully refuted an opposing statement.

Poster, Mickey, secularly challenged your Swiss Cheese and ad hoc "intellectual inventions,"

In an illuminated fashion, cowardly you ran!

It will be the most reviled word known to man, and known to cause the most harm. That word is "Faith

If you did not possess faith that gravity would keep you on the ground, you would not leave your home. If you did not have faith that there was oxygen in the outside air, you would not leave your home. You are unable to see these 2 elements. Yet, you know that they exists.

In spite of your baseless rants, you are "a man of faith!"

Faith: Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

they are about to be swindled, confused,

Evolution has "swindled, confused" and led many astray.

Should I believe the Used Car Salesman, politician, Nigerian chap

If the above 3 are speaking the truth, fine. If not, God does not like liars.

Psalm 101:7 "The lord hates lying lips."

You will be forgiven for the lies that you have spilled on this forum.

unsupported belief system?

Creationism is supported. You have willfully chosen to reject it.

Do I have "Faith" in Darwin's studies? I absolutely do.

Do I have faith in Darwin's conjectures? Absolutely not.

You have now proved yourself to a very deluded man (at best).

If there is delusion, then factually prove the posts to be wrong.

Darwin was a man with a theory, who died, and is no longer with us

You continue to support the bible.

Psalm 146: 4 "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish."

When poster, Mickey, secularly challenged you, like a coward you ran.

Forget about all that science stuff

Your above "command" will not happen. To dispel the "science stuff," would mean forgetting about biology, chemistry, physics, botany, archeology, anthropology, astronomy, algebra, probability, logarithms, entomology and mammalogy, all of which God created.

Your attempt at diversion failed.

Christianity in our country is trying awfully hard to impose themselves into our government

Like you, such above Christians are misled. God never forces himself upon anyone. He gives us free will.

Texas GOP

The GOP and Texas are shinning examples of extremism and failure.

I can only weep for the future

Tears should be reserved for those who remain in self-imposed spiritual darkness.

NASA is an astounding agency.

Yet, NASA cannot calculate the odds of all the amazing order that is in our universe, randomly occurring.

You should be proud of yourself.

For not turning away from God, I am...

Anjisan1963

koo koo...

Anjisan,

You do not have any facts. Your only option is to "call names."

Anjisan1963

Okay... Past my slacked jaw disbelief at the incredibly inane statements

No proof have you submitted refuting creationism.

You are lost in mankind's total confusion.

Your "post" is a sorrowful wailing and a descent into diatribes.

You are free to take your Valium or Xanax, which your psychiatrist prescribed
"for your episodes of heightened stress."

Scripture is medicine...

Giantego

Old testement had GOD as a real creep vidictive over bearing and mean

Pity the man that believes in himself.

You both have grand achievements in the scientific field of "lacking accurate knowledge."

Evolution, the Atheists' religion!

Wow... Could my jaw fall any lower towards the ground. All your arguments are circular. There is not one single shred of any logic or reason within the statements you are making. You know what...? I'm just going to throw out various pieces of evidence that promote my view of our place in the universe, and I'm just going to answer for you since I've finally figured out the "intricacies" of your reasoning

Various forms of Man (Field of Anthropology): Australopithecus, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis, early Homo sapiens sapiens [Cro-Magnon], present-day Homo sapiens sapiens [Us!!!]

Your answer: Put here by the devil to lead us away from Christ as described in the only book I ever read.

Various Artifacts left here by Previous Civilizations and Human Ancestors (Field of Archeaology): Cave Paintings in Lascaux, France [contains no images of the Judeo-Christian God] created about 17,000 years ago; Cave Paintings in Chauvet, France showing now extinct animals that died off over 20,000 years ago [contains no images of the Judeo-Christian God] - these paintings date back 30,000 to 35,000 years ago; Earliest evidence of Christians in China - Between 600-700 A.D. [Da Qin POagoda - Note: Christians, not Christ himself. Christ apparently was confined to a 60-100 mile radius of where he was supposedly born, lived, and died. For a deity, he wasn't well traveled]; Earliest evidence of Christians in the Americas - 1490's with the arrival of the Spainards - The non-Christian indians began a 500 year long period of time where their cultures are destroyed by Christians who are convinced of the righteousness of their cause; Evidence of Moses? Nothing ever found in the Sinai Desert. Evidence of Noah? None - No description of this epic flood has ever been described in ancient chinese or egyptian civilizations

Your answer: Fake evidence placed into the ground by the devil himself to lead us away from Christ as described in the only book I ever read.

Confirmed Evidence that Evolution and Natural Selection are REAL (Field of Biology, Microbiology, Anthropology, Paleontology, Botany, Oceanography): Study of DNA Genetic sequencing and matches between similar and past life forms; analysis of the fossil record; evolution through common descent as studied through the geographical distribution of plants and animals (Why is Noah's Ark story WRONG? Marsupials in Australia, Big Game in Africa, Bald Eagles and Bison in America, Panda's in China, etc... Noah did not make multiple stops dropping off various species on a round-the-world godly trip); The development and spread of antibiotic resistant bacteria, like the spread of pesticide resistant forms of plants and insects provides evidence that evolution due to natural selection is an ongoing process in the natural world; Endogenous retroviruses (or ERVs) are remnant sequences in the genome left from ancient viral infections in an organism. The retroviruses (or virogene) are always passed on to the next generation of that organism that received the infection. This leaves the virogene left in the genome. Because this event is rare and random, finding identical chromosomal positions of a virogene in two different species suggests common ancestry. AND OF COURSE this again: Australopithecus, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis, early Homo sapiens sapiens [Cro-Magnon], present-day Homo sapiens sapiens [Us!!!] - We were not always in this current form, we have been linked to previous versions of mankind. Matter of fact the Basque people of Northern Spain and Southern France still have some genes they've inherited from their Cro-Magnon ancestors.

Your answer: Lies and deceit generated by the devil himself to lead us away from Christ as described in the only book I ever read.

Well, there's some of my evidence. I think I've talked long enough, I would go into the whole cosmology thing to discuss the age and evolution of the Universe and our world, but I suspect I'm just preaching to a black hole of ignorance here. Let's briefly examine some of your statements:

Your "post" is a sorrowful wailing and a descent into diatribes.

Is it? I post evidence. You post feelings, scriptures, denouncements of knowledge, and appeals to that very shady word: Faith.

No proof have you submitted refuting creationism.

No? What about all the evidence I just submitted above? Oh, that's right. Put there by the devil. Somehow, along the way, God and Jesus just neglected to hide their own pieces of evidence.

Scripture is medicine...

No it's not. It will not heal. Your scripture is a piece of historical fiction that ties together a lot of fables from a lot of civilizations and a lot of beliefs from the time. Read up on the story of Horus, Mithra, and other previous Gods who share a very similar story to the tale of Jesus. By the way... You're healing scripture has a huge hole. There's no mention of Jesus as an older child, teenager, or young man. We only catch up to Jesus following his early childhood when he's about 30. I suspect that your historical Jesus, may have been doing what a lot of us did from age 15-30: Out partying, hooking up with the ladies, tearing up the town, and having a generally good time. When he hit 30, he had a certain level of regret over the life he led and turn to preaching. The whole preaching thing apparently worked out for him, because THERE YOU ARE!!! A true believer.

Evolution, the Atheists' religion!

Not at all. Evolution is science. You do know the difference between science (fact-based opinion) and religion (faith-based opinion) don't you? Evolution is a theory, which has been gathering data since it was first conceived in the late 1850's by Darwin, and with every experimentation and test, the theory continues to achieve more and more validity, while your God of Gaps (which is a religion based on faith) is finding fewer and fewer gaps to hide in.

You do not have any facts. Your only option is to "call names."

When you present someone with facts and they insist on denying these facts while calling these facts lies; and, when clear and overwhelming data hits someone in the face and they say, "no, no, no, no, NO!!!", then, there is something definitely wrong with that person. Perhaps it's a lack of education? Perhaps they were abused as a child and are emotionally crippled. Perhaps whatever it is they're clinging to is their only support system (no family, no friends, etc...)? Whatever the case... When a person is presented with clear, concise data and they continue to refute data, then they definitely have mental capacities equivalent to a person suffering from mental retardation.

Do I have faith in Darwin's conjectures? Absolutely not.

Damn you're an idiot. Whoops. Sorry. Please see previous post.

Creationism is supported. You have willfully chosen to reject it.

Not once, in all your disjointed, rambling, incoherencies have you ever provided one single shred of evidence for Creationism. Outside of your single source of material (The Bible) which has only existed for the past couple thousand years, you have presented absolutely zero support of creationism. Look at all my data above. Tell me again who has willfully chosen to ignore and reject data?

You will be forgiven for the lies that you have spilled on this forum.

Again. My posts have science backing them up. Your posts have only your single source of material coming from a Bronze Age document that has been acknowledged as having multiple authors, multiple revisions, and multiple edits performed on this document over the past 1,500 years. That document you keep referring to has also had multiple chapters (Gospels) removed by the various Christian men of Power over the past thousand years.

Unfortunately, I am not a Christian. This means I am unable to forgive you for the lies that you are spewing; however, I am an empathetic man, and I do pity you for your lack of vision.

Faith: Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Again, Faith is one of the most insidious and horrible words in the Human Language. Nothing leads to more confusion and more swindles than people who use the word Faith. Just so we're absolutely clear: When you say the word "Faith" to me, this is what I hear: Don't think, just accept what I'm saying. What are you doing? Don't look it up. Just trust me. I know what I'm talking about. No, no, no... This car is 100%, no need to look it up on CarFax. Where's your Faith?

Stop trusting that someone else has done your thinking for you, and start doing your own thinking. Stop being a blind lemming.

Anjisan,

Scriptures and proof of creationism have been given to you. The wonders of God, now have you wondering. This is good! By the lies of evolution, you have been philosophically treaded upon; through evolution's falsity, you have become spiritually bereft. Your confusion can be turned around.

Daily reading of the bible and developing a personal relationship with God, can extricate you from mankind's self aggrandizement, evolution.

The bible will set your feet upon "solid ground."

Secularly, you were not even able to establish any facts. Understandably, from poster Mickey, you ran like a coward.

Stop trusting that someone else has done your thinking for you, and start doing your own thinking.

Psalm: 3:5 "Trust in the Lord and do not lean upon your own understand."

Mark 4:22 "All things that are hidden, will be brought to the light."

Evolution has been exposed.

You are the first poster and the first atheist that has "achieved" the ignore status.

You will be pray for.

Evolution, The religion of Atheists!

Anjisan, Stop trusting that someone else has done your thinking for you, and start doing your own thinking.

Your above statement is why you should not rely on Darwin for your "thoughts."

Psalm: 3:5 "Trust in the Lord and do not lean upon your own understanding."

Anjisan, Stop trusting that someone else has done your thinking for you, and start doing your own thinking.

Your above statement is why you should not rely on Darwin for your "thoughts."

YES... YOU GET IT...

Darwin, Einstein, Hawking, Professor Donald Johnson, Jane Goodall, Gregor Mendel, James Watson and Francis Crick, and so on...

My information is culled from many, many sources. From many scientists under many disciplines. Darwin is not my sole source as so blindly state.

But listen to this...

It is impossible to prove that the theory of evolution is absolutely true. (that must make you feel good) The theory maintains that plant evolution, animal evolution and the major geological changes to the earth unfolded over billions of years. Thus, the full theory cannot be demonstrated in the laboratory. Processes like the rise of mountains and erosion are simply too slow to be observed during one person's lifetime. Elements of the theory (e.g. species evolution of fruit flies in the laboratory and of Tilapia fish in East African lakes) have been observed. But nobody was on hand to observe what the world and its life forms looked like hundreds of millions of years ago.

However, sufficient evidence exists in support of evolution to convince 99.85% of America's earth and life scientists that the theory is valid. Evolution is the key unifying theory that unifies many different branches of science, from cosmology to biology.

Evolution has SUFFICIENT evidence as to prove itself as the most probable reason why life is here on this planet. Tell me again how a 2,000 year old Bronze Age book detailing one of many other religions of the time is the one true path of truth despite all the blatant falsehoods within these pages?

THIS IS WHY... YOU SHOULD NOT RELY SOLELY ON THE BIBLE AS THE ONLY SOURCE OF INFORMATION YOU NEED. It makes you sound like a bloody idiot.

This conversation is OVER go back to the institution where you belong you poor, pathetic deluded man!!!

Because you are on "ignore status," your comments are deservedly collapsed.

I do not know what you have said, nor do I want to know.

Evolution, The Religion of The Atheist!

Ah... Sign of the truly religious. When life gets to real...

- You squeeze your eyes shut.

- You stick your fingers in your ears, and say, "nuh, nuh, nuh, nuh, I can't hear you, I can't hear you"...

The ultimate place of safety for the disingenuous spinner of farcical tales of imagination.

.

What the...? I thought you were ignoring me? Yet, you feel the need to put a no-word response to my last statement?

...Oh... I get it. It's one of those... "I was arguing with this guy, telling him how God was real and stuff, and yeah... I GOT THE LAST WORD. It was easy, his position was just indefensible"

Is that it 25Walker? A last word kind of thing. That's fine. Except.. Um... Whoops... Looks like this is the last word.

Yeah, I could have taken the higher stance, but I'm not opposed to dropping down to an 8-year-old level if that's the proper intellectual stance I have to reach through the ironclad falsehoods that you follow.

Anjisan1963 Ignoring author

.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

Oh my god... That is the FUNNIEST thing ever. For a short while there, I actually thought I was speaking to a person of intelligence. Instead, it's a two-year-old who's got to have the last say... Is it that important? To have the very last word? Wow... It was funny for a bit, but have at it... The last word is yours. (I've no doubt that your last word will be incorrect as is everything you've said, but still... It is yours.)

Can I get an amen, Brother?

.

.

In science, there is no more well supported concept than a theory.

In religion, a concept needs no support.

That is why 25 walker can, with a straight face claim that evolution is not a well supported theory by showing a complete lack of understanding of the theory.

In the field of physics, it is common to re-evaluate the very nature of the universe itself. If physics was a religion, they would all sit around explaining why the One God made it all, yet was not made himself theory is the only true theory, or risk going into an alternate universe in which they are eternally punished that nobody bothered to prove exists. Those doubting that place exists, will also go to that place.

I guess I am on ignore now. I suspect I have been on ignore since I typed the word "Darwin"

shhhhh....

It's been a few days... I suspect 25Walker had to return to his institution, or, hopefully, he's back on his full dose of Thorazine. I was just kidding about giving him the last word. No sense giving the last word to the lunatic running the asylum, ya know? That'd be just giving in to the crazies.

Oh, and I think we can all agree that he was battier than a bat in a belfry.

Primate Guy - Gotta agree with you. Our concept of a theory and their concept of a theory are two completely different things. (1) We believe in a theory that begins its life as a hypothesis, goes through a series of evaluations, perhaps some peer reviews, goes into a lab, gets tested there, may be tested out in the field, is once again evaluated, and tested over and over again. (2) The religious lunatics believe in their theory - they have a book (bible) and that is the end of questioning.

Period.

So they look at us, and say, "Hey Mr. Science, we have theories. Our theory of Creationism is just as valid as your theory of Evolution, and we have a right to teach in the classrooms"...

Um...

No you don't. What you have is a bunch of unproven, wishful thinking that has not even come close to being proved as an actual scientific theory.

Lunacy is all around us. It makes one weep for the direction the human race is going sometimes.

Finally somebody understands this. I've always been fascinated with weapons but does anybody really need an M16 with a 100 round drum mag?

I could live with less than a 100 rounds so is 15 ok? You see just about the time we settle on 15 and 12 people got killed we would question if 15 was too much then we only allow single shot rifles and so on.

Since there was 12 killed and 58 injured...

...and the assault weapon with the 100-round mag jammed which must have saved a few lives...

Yes lets control wether you can have a 100round drum for your M16's! Then this idiot can roll in with his ar15 and kill people. But back to the point. a 100 round drum or a few clips holding 20 rounds, would have made all the difference. His clip size had nothing to do with this event. Neither did the gun choice, he had two handguns and a 12gauge shotty too.

Limit his clip/drum size, he just bring extra clips.

Ban that assault rifle, he brings a rifle, another handgun.

So yes, banning your m16's(which he didn't have) and their large drums would have prevented this. Not.

Do you liberals eat this @!$%# your forcing down our throats too? Your so clueless it's funny. Guns dont kill people people kill people. I could kill someone with a pencil, should we ban those, oh and scissors. Get rid of em!

If we ban guns, DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THIS GUY WOULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED? Ban guns, then all law abiding citizens will get rid of them, leaving only the criminals to carry them.

Sincerely,

Your all too dumb for your own good. Do the world a favor and shut the @!$%# up. Thanks.

Why did God allow this? My response is:

Raises hands like the picture - I know - I know ......

You have been duped by the biggest scam in all of human history.

Why did God allow this? My response is:

Raises hands like the picture - I know - I know ......

You have been duped by the biggest scam in all of human history.

What!? I bet I won't even get the free $10 gift card he promised me. Genesis 2-10 "Yea, and God said, Let there be light...oh and also everybody gets a gift card for signing up.

Do you liberals eat this @!$%# your forcing down our throats too? Your so clueless it's funny. Guns dont kill people people kill people. I could kill someone with a pencil, should we ban those, oh and scissors. Get rid of em!

Why so angry?

You see, if I knew you, I would seriously be concerned that you own a gun. I get the impression if you could turn your automatic weapon on the people on this group that disagree with you, they would be history.

People can't kill people with guns if they don't have them. Ask the Brits. It worked great for them for years until they became so widely available elsewhere. It's a lot more difficult to sneak up on someone and take them down with a knife or a club. Have to get up close and personal rather than standing across the room. I mean if you think about it, guns are really a cowards way to kill, aren't they. A real man would get up close and personal.

In short, you aren't doing your cause any favors by your attitude.

@bchandl

You have reading comprehension issues... Banning 100 round drums would not have prevented this from occurring, nobody said it would have. However if all he had access to was 20 round clips he would have had to reloaded 5 times to use the same amount of ammo. In the time it would have taken him to reload 5 times that would have given more time for people to escape.

There is no civilian practical use for a 100 round drum.

Im not angry and I don't own a gun. Its the principle behind it, the idea that taking guns away from law abiding citizens, which leaves on crooks and cops with guns. And there isn't much of a difference between a cop and a crook, they're both a bunch of cowards, one just hides behind a badge and files taxes.

If we had a zero tolerance policy on guns(theoretically) do you think this would have stopped this? Hell no. He would find ways to get guns and ammo, easy. Crack is illegal, does that stop anyone who wants it bad enough? Obviously not.

People want to leagalize drugs and prohibit guns, what is this world coming too?

"No practical use for a 100 round drum" ??........great for hunting and instant processing of deer burger...........That is for the NRA.........but I really agree with those who question how anyone can justify such easy access to a lethal attachment to a lethal weapon.

Canada has very strict gun controls and it solves nothing. Just allows criminals to be armed against unarmed law abiding citizens, In Canada you can't carry a hand gun except to a gun range & you can't load it until you get there !

I had a few hand guns including a black powder cap n ball 44 Army Navy Colt, a model 39 Smith & Wesson semi auto & a 22 cal revolver. I loved shooting them but the strict laws made it impossible to own them. Very few registered guns are used in crime like this sick Colorado jerk ! If he didn't have a gun he would probably have used a bomb which he had several of !

thank you charlie! Restricting access to law abiding citizens will leave guns in only cowards hands, aka cops and crooks.

My point exactly!

Ban the 100 clip, and then select the next size clip to target. That is the way of the anti-gun crowd, who will never be satisfied until only criminals have the ability to own a gun.

Wow, the gun-nut lobby will never cease.

I'm a retired cop. I have my own cache of guns here at home. But nothing crazy...

It amazes me how irresponsible and absolutely idiotic the gun-nut lobby is.

A 100-round clip??? You people have lost your goddam minds.

@ bchandl

Limit his clip/drum size, he just bring extra clips.

Ban that assault rifle, he brings a rifle, another handgun.

So yes, banning your m16's(which he didn't have) and their large drums would have prevented this. Not.

Multiple clips instead of a drum translates into having to reload multiple times to achieve the same throughput. Time spent reloading is time spent not shooting, and also provides a window for the shooter to be incapacitated. So yes, prohibiting excessively large clips and drums would be a logical answer.

Do you liberals eat this @!$%# your forcing down our throats too? Your so clueless it's funny. Guns dont kill people people kill people. I could kill someone with a pencil, should we ban those, oh and scissors. Get rid of em!

Do you really think that Liberals are the only people who are concerned about who has access to military-grade weaponry? Based on your choice to wallow around in FOXNews-esque rhetoric, I'm guessing you're of the mindset that someone can't be a Liberal without a coat-hanger in one hand and a joint in the other, and a Conservative has to stand in front of a dramatically billowing American flag holding a machine-gun and a bible.

If we ban guns, DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THIS GUY WOULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED?

No, he probably would have gone through with the attack anyways. But if it were more difficult for someone to legally purchase an assault rifle, maybe he would have tried to buy one illegally. Maybe he would have been caught in a sting, or found in possession of an illegally-obtained weapon and put on a watch list, or maybe he would have decided just to use his handguns and shotgun. But hey, maybe he would have used explosives instead. Conjecture can go either way.

Ban guns, then all law abiding citizens will get rid of them, leaving only the criminals to carry them.

Well, criminals, and the police/military that we pay to carry the weapons so that we don't have to. This argument is dumb. Responsible people may buy assault rifles and never use them, but then you get the crazies who buy them and use them against innocent people.

Sincerely,

Your all too dumb for your own good. Do the world a favor and shut the @!$%# up. Thanks.

You're.*

For those abysmally ignorant people who don't know first hand, to change mags requires you to hit the mag release, and while the empty mag is falling to the ground, slam a full mag into the weapon with your other hand. Total time, under 1 second. Continue aiming and deliberately firing. (You swap mags when the last live round from the current mag is chambered, so the gun is never empty.) This is second nature to anyone who is practiced with their weapon. Rifle or pistol, same drill. Never let the weapon run empty, change mags while continuing to fire.

Drum magazines are notorious for jamming. That's why our military doesn't use them. Straight mags are much more reliable. Swapping mags takes almost no time at all. Anyone who has actually been in combat knows that it doesn't matter how fast or how often you can miss. Only hits count. Deliberate aimed fire is what wins the day.

"Guns don't kill people; people do."

But I'm fairly sure the gun had something to do with it. If I pointed my finger at you and said "bang" I think you'd survive to tell the tale.

So easy for mentally-ill civilians in this country to get their hands on combat assault weapons designed for heat of the battle in a war zone.

And some of you wonder why this tragedy happened.

No evidence that God had anything to do with this. But easy access is given to people in America for getting lethal tools designed for just one thing alone.

When the Bill of Rights was written "arms " meant a single shot blackpowder rifle.

Do you really think that the Founding Fathers would have allowed people to be running around with an AR-15 and a Glock .40 cal?

I imagine that they thought that we would have enough sense to limit the lethality of weapons the average citizens would posess.

I am pro gun but with more and more nuts causing mayhem and pain, I am worried that not allowing SOME controls on what the general populace may posess, we are going to end up with a knee jerk reaction that in the end will mean banning guns in America.

Yes John Carter, you are right, someone who has trained to fire his weapon and change mags it's second nature, but I'm not sure if this guy was a train shooter. With small capacity clips; you do have to change more often, one might jam, with small capacity mags; you have to carry more stuff, maybe your more noticeable, with a gas mask on it's harder to see, making harder to change clips, since we are not ever going to do anything to prevent people from buying assault rifles, rifles that sole purpose is to kill people, maybe at least, we can try to make it harder for gunmen to wound and kill people so many so easily.

does anybody really need an M16 with a 100 round drum mag?

Not any civilian. Its a damn good thing that rifle jammed or many more probably would have got killed.

The only ones that could use that weapon are our military, fighting the al Qaeda and Taliban thugs.

If there was no difference in the kill rate of different types firearms, the military would still be using sharps rifles and colt singl action revolvers. Anyone who thinks he or she needs high capacity magazines in order to protect their home, their person, or put food on the table needs a psychiatrist more than a high capacity magazine. It is beyond reason. Should every citizen have a bazooka on the odd chance that they are mugged by a thug in an armored vehicle? The 80s are over. Arnold and Stallone never needed that much muscle, and nobody needs that much firepower, unless they live in a barracks.

If the military needs them, then so do the citizens who may have to rise up and resist tyranny. That was our Founders' idea. Jefferson said that from time to time the Tree of Liberty has to be watered with the blood of Tyrants and Patriots. The Second Amendment isn't about sporting goods. It isn't even about self-defense. It is about REVOLUTION. The threat of the whole body of the people rising up in rebellion is the final check on government's abuse of power. Our Founders had recent first hand experience with this when they wrote the Second Amendment. They well understood that for the people to be on an equal footing with the Tyrant's army, they had to be as well armed. THEY defined the militia as "the whole of the people capable of bearing arms." They weren't talking about the National Guard, which didn't exist then, and is currently a tool of the very federal government a people's militia was intended to hold in check.

Exactly which militia was Mr. Holmes a member of again?

It seems that this country is not even run by a government any more. Rather, it is run by many overly powerful corporations supplying funds, support, and influence to the pawns which do their bidding.

Pawns = congressmen/women = best government money has bought

Whoever is the manufacturer of that 100 round mag. should get sued and shut down. If its Smith and Wesson, so be it. They should be held liable.

You'd think his admission that "he doesn't know" might lead him to the inevitable conclusion that his imaginary friend in the sky isn't real, but I guess that's too big a step for the delusional and gullible.

The pastor should have stated the obvious: god is a sadistic bastard.

At least the Pastor admitted he didn't have a clue.....

Tells you something.

Ah, yes. Sheep. The Dumbest animals on the planet.

Reading all of these stupid comments is hilarious. You people should do something constructive with your time. Quit slamming people who happen to believe in God. If you don't, go have a good spiritual time worshipping the idol on your mantel.

Quit slamming people who happen to believe in God. If you don't, go have a good spiritual time worshipping the idol on your mantel.

OK. So, it's bad to slam people who believe in YOUR cult-god. Then, in your last sentence, you slam others for their beliefs, even if it's an idol on their mantel.

It sounds like you're a lowlife hypocrite, who is no better than the people you are berating. You sound like the typical christian to me!

By the way -- the amount of evidence that YOU have to prove your god is real and that your god exists is exactly the same amount of evidence for the idol on the mantel: ABSOLUTELY ZERO!

So ----- grow up, Rick. Your unprovable, mythical cult and its cult creatures is no better than any other unprovable, mythical cult and its cult creatures.

Cheers!

Why, oh why, did the Giant Invisible Spaghetti Monster let this happen? Why?

Is saying "i don't know" a good excuse when you claim to have a direct line to the allmighty?

When did he "claim to have a direct line to the almighty?" Pastors are regular people, and none I know have claimed anything otherwise.

You forgot "Oklahoma City"-------we have our own home grown terrorists!!

Don't forget about slavery; African Americans and Hebrews which God detest but man allows. Evil will remain as long as man allows is for it is God who has given us free will to do what is good and right or what is wrong and evil. On this earch we have the free will to make that choice. When we ultimately leave here, it will either be hell or heaven. Make your choice now to choose because later, it's to late.

Hey, I was going to say that! Great minds think alike...

Wow CM, you thought the very same thing as "BeerMug" did?

Great minds indeed!

Yes, that would make perfect sense if nobody died. Ever.

Sure would be a shot in the arm for the space program!

It could be that what some of the founding fathers believed is true---as "Sophists" they believed that after God did his thing, he then said, OK, you are now on your own and left!---makes a lot of sensed!!

Just pray and ask him. If you receive a reply, post it here. If not.....well, let's just assume you won't.

While we are on this Earth, God/The Universe allows us to make a choice - YES or NO. Don't allow someone else's NO to take away your YES. Job didn't let the satan's NO take away his YES. Jesus didn't let our NO take away his YES. As long as we have free will, there is no power in this universe that can take away our YES.

From all accounts, it sounds like all the victims said YES, and nothing can ever take that away from them.

And if you do receive a reply from god, please check in to the nearest mental health clinic pronto.

That's what Ted Haggard had to do. (OK, for completely different reasons... he liked Crystal Meth and loved his male masseurs who gave him non-BuyBull-approved Happy Endings!)

I am sure that in the days prior to guns----murders were perpetrated, singularly and in multiples!!

Responsible gun owners do not carry out these hienous crimes. no amount of gun control will deter them

Oh whatever... Every person is a responsible Gun Owner, UNTIL they do something like this. Then it's "oh, HE'S not a responsible Gun Owner, like us!"

Remember how responsible of a gun owner Dick Cheney was? They were cowardly hunters, and Dick couldn't even get thru their LAME "hunting" trip without shooting someone! And yet, the right-wing gun nuts still line up behind him to kiss his behind and lick his shoes... Ugh -- conservatives in this country are so goddam filthy and dishonest, it's unbelievable...

"There's pickles on my McDouble!? Why did God allow this?"

If you really knew God, this is not a question to ask Him as it has already been revealed. If we remove evil from us, God will have a whole lot of room to work with.

Bingo!

Especially if (a few millenia ago) you got so pissy about how they behaved, you mass-murdered them all with a flood. Because THAT was the reasonable, thoughtful, caring solution that a wise universe-creating god would conclude. (!)

But, OH YEAH, you care...you love these people, and you care about them.

Right...

Go smoke another bowl, BuyBull-people!

Ken, you make an odd sort of sense.

Bernich, your comment made no sense in relation to Ken's comment. (no Bingo there)

Maybe some people are just so terrible at hunting they need 100 rounds. In that case, you could just pick up one of these weapons which are completely legal under the current gun control laws:

http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m134-minigun-e.html

“When our world goes periodically crazy, a flood of questions can come into our minds,” Noble said during his Sunday morning sermon. “The question we all probably struggle with: Why did God allow this? My response is: I don’t know."

There is the answer about god, I don't know...we don't know if there is a god and if there is one we don't know anything about him or his intent.

As for this incident it is not the first time nor will it be the last. Each time such things happen it hurts and there is great sorrow and sadness but there is nothing we can do that we are not already doing...we are doing our best, sh$t happens and we move on. More people are killed by drunks and texting but we don't come to a stand still, we move on.

I am not against owning a firearm but there should some common sense.

But if we don’t act responsibly these tragedies will continue to happen.

We have gun control up the ying yang but the only thing people like you really want (lets be honest) is to make it illegal for the common citizen to own and carry. At one time fully automatic rifles were ok but someone like you said lets show some common sense and now you are working on semi automatics. If we were only allowed to have a single shot rifle and a few people got killed with it you would question the common sense of owning a single shot rifle.

The technology for making a gun and ammunition is simple and known and if the criminals could not buy one they would simply make it and where would it put us common folks.

Your comment is just emotional and not based on common sense.

Oh_no:

Well said. If the anti-gun nuts have their way, all civilian ownership of guns, including the criminals if they can find a way to do that, would be banned. Then the price of a bootlegged gun would be astronomical. Guns would find their way out of police evidence rooms and military armories into the hands of those with the money to buy them.

Assuming gun leakage from these sources didn't happen, machine shops across the country would start bootlegging guns because of the profit.

Guns are here to stay...at least until something better comes along.

Otsoko: Maybe some people are just so terrible at hunting they need 100 rounds. In that case, you could just pick up one of these weapons which are completely legal under the current gun control laws

I'm sure Dick Cheney's friend is happy that Dick (terrible at hunting) didn't have 100 rounds!

I tried calling, but I only got his voicemail. Apparently, he won a cruise to the Bahamas or something.

Yea, I was on that cruse ship and I kept hearing some gal say oh god oh god I am coming ..... one of his followers I think, she was happy to see him I guess.

Hopefully you 2 are not part of the entertainment venue on the next cruise I take.

Ther's no "maybe" about it!!!----The God thing was a method of control of the masses by a few!!---it was a brilliant idea!!----"you put the fear of God into them!!!"----no better control!!! We human animals need to be controlled, that is why we have laws to protect us from each other!!

In my opinion, religions were created as a method of outlining some guidelines that people could live by which would allow them to coexist peacefully. Eventually, people started taking it too far and began explaining anything un-explainable with, "God did it." Since then, people have continued to take their respective religions so seriously that rivalries have developed (as they eventually would with any groups) and wars, genocide, and crusades have resulted.

Having said that, I still respect peoples' rights to have a religion, however, I believe that it is better to take good things from that and apply it to their lives, rather than idolizing something or someone that may or may not exist.

God was purposely created for a lot of reasons, some mentioned above but also for profit.

Man's greatest creation.

Man's greatest creation.

One word: Bacon.

In the beginning man created god.

In their descending order of sadness: those who (with a small degree of comprehension of an infinitely complex universe of which there is no explaination to be found in nature for its existance, origin and continuation); those who choose nefandous crimes against their human family; those who teach the Word of God and cannot answer this simplest of philosophical questions.

God did not stop this evil man because we have all wanted to know evil. Evil knows us, now we know evil. Theodicy is the word to begin an understanding of why God does not stop things like this.

The sadest of the sad, however, are the minds volitionally closed to a belief in the Almighty because they come to know what they want to know and then find it repulsive. God is not cruel. He is allowing what every sinner has wanted; to know evil.

If you want a solution, know His Son, Jesus, the Christ.

The sadest of the sad, however, are the minds volitionally closed to a belief in the Almighty because they come to know what they want to know and then find it repulsive. God is not cruel. He is allowing what every sinner has wanted; to know evil.

If I had created a creature (humans, for instance), this would have been my thoughts before creating them:

Since I have unlimited and absolute power over literally everything and I'm not bound by any rules, I think I will make a creature to inhabit this place. I should probably make him have free will so it won't be boring, but I should make him unable to be corrupted by evil and unable to murder, steal, cheat, rape, plunder, shanghai, pillage, or any other funny, bad-sounding verbs.

Since I have unlimited and absolute power over literally everything and I'm not bound by any rules, I think I will make a creature to inhabit this place. I should probably make him have free will so it won't be boring, but I should make him unable to be corrupted by evil and unable to murder, steal

First, you would be OF your nature and create consistently with your character. The Almighty God had done just that when He created this universe. It was of His character; pure and perfect.

Giving your creation free will and denying it the choice to know the antithesis of you is a contradiction. God is consistent with His law of non-contradiction. I'm glad you are not God. You'd have messed everything up before you began.

Actually, I'm surprised that none of the deluded sheep here who run their mouths about their false dead god haven't blamed this on an even more ludicrous and laughable charater they call "Satan."

If you want a solution, know His Son, Jesus, the Christ.

That is just another unprovable, mythical cult creature. Your preachy comment is not germaine or meaningful.

Cheers!

charlesmarten2.

I really enjoyed your above entries. Powerful writing. Everything in response to it fell flat

I would like to hear more.

The score-

charlesmartel2........................................................... 1

Negative replies to charlesmartel2.................................8

Common sense will tell you that these weapons will never go away.

And regulating them (like was done before) only makes these more readily available to criminals with ill intent.

There will always be shootings like this.

This one was dramatized because so many were hurt or killed in one spot.

HUNDREDS are killed everyday.

And not all by way of the gun.

While we are posting this, magazines, weapons and the like are being bought, and stockpiled.

Prices will go through the roof.

But the criminal will always have the money for them, AND they are buying them as we speak to sell.

Gun control is NOT the answer.

Really, well when your lights go out and suddenly come back on.

Try explaining that to the man who stands before you.

I would try calling the power company. They specialize in that sort of thing.

Viewer - know anyone with experience?

No, but if you atheists don't worry about death either, why worry about death and guns?

No, but if you atheists don't worry about death either, why worry about death and guns?

Death is a concept universal throughout society whether religious or not. I don't want to die because I like living, I mean it's a good portion of what I do every day. I also quite enjoy not having my arm blown off with a shotgun. That would be rather upsetting...

Viewer - logic has befallen you.

What has the man who stands before me have to do with my desire to live or die? I am not worried about dying, it is inevitable but I would like to stick around for a while and I am not worried about guns, if I am the one holding it.

When your lights go out and do not come back on...

well, I guess it's over, isn't it.

When my lights go out and don't come back on, I fire up my Onan.

"You are worming your way around it"

There is nothing to "worm" around.

There are responsible people, and there are evil people.

Do not lump us in one bundle.

Agree. God's greatest gift to us was and is free will. And when something likes this happens on a large scale or a smaller, personal issue, we are either being taught a lesson or are the tool in some one elses lesson. If we use our free will to be open to the lesson, to learn and grow, things work out in ways we could never imagine. It has for me. And if we believe in a god of goodness, then there must be the otehr side of the coin. An evil in the world. From this to wars, to greed, to corruption, evil manipulates. And evil manipulates becasue we of free will allow ourselves to follow it's will and not God's.

There is no such thing as evil. Evil is a construct dreamed up to support religion.

What there is are people who will do anything to make the pain go away. Even if it means opening up on a theatre of hundreds of people.

Man is an animal and as such behaves as an animal. Nothing he does is inherently evil, but everything he does is inherently selfish.

If you don't believe there is evil, you must live the majority of your time under a blanket in the corner of your bassinet. You can really consider this mass murder and you don't think there is evil? There must be some easy and effective way to let the excess gas out of your head without perforating your skull.

"No such thing as evil". The history of the world is a litany of good and evil. There are people out there who could so quickly convince you there is evil. Face to face.

If you don't believe there is evil, you must live the majority of your time under a blanket in the corner of your bassinet.

A comment like that, coming from a thumb-sucking cultist who needs the crutch of cultism just to get through life, is rather hilarious.

Cheers!

It is always a puzzle to me that people who are not friendly towards God feel a need to bash someone whom they say doesn't exist. (Which they themselves cannot prove as well) When someone who mentions God, which by the way, is the basis for the above article and this conversation, those who have given up on this concept suddenly appear out of nowhere with contradictory comments about His existence. There's an equal amount of evidence for anyone to exercise thier faith for or against Him. If God were to produce irrefutable evidence that He exists, then freedom of choice is eliminated, we would be bound under the death penalty to obey Him. But thank God , He doesn't work that way and never forces, but allows for exercise of our freedom to choose just as in the garden of eden.

Here's the deal, believe or don't believe I'm fine if you chose either. But don't make fools of yourselves by trying to discredit a concept you don't believe in. It actually gives MORE credibility to the concept that you dispute! It's a waste of both of our time and only makes you look idiotic for bashing what you already claim is a non-entity, because now you are making it into an entity.

There are many good thoughts that have been presented but have been bashed and ignored, I'm going to restate two of those, only to those who are sincere in trying to make sense of this, in the light of the existence of an all mighty creator.

haluk

Charlie451,

I am glad you are 67 years old and you are a happy soul. You said: "...Now there are some good Christians etc but more bad than good..." First, please tell me how you came to that conclusion. Second, when you say "good" what do you mean? Since you have no moral basis to life (as an atheist who believe that there is only material existence) then how can you even judge and say there is good or bad. Thank you.

This though is expressing the idea that even though men may denounce God even the lowliest of men have a moral sense of what is right and what is wrong. Further testimony that we are created beings with a conscience.(this applies even to the cannibals of the jungle.)

Some of those who also resist the existence of God say, "I'm NOT an Atheist" are to a large degree even more cowardly than anyone else as they want to be defined down to nothing so that they can throw stones at others ideas and not have their own glass house broken down.

Another good thought I saw was this;

csmithers Comment collapsed by the community(NOTE:any comment "collapsed by the community" is probably a God hater who doesn't want to respond with an inteligent comment but choses to sit in front of his computer screen and hate.)

Can't believe someone who calls himself a pastor would not know the answer to such a simple question. "Why would God allow this?" 1 John 5:19 says "We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one." God is allowing Satan's government to rule the earth because he challenged Gods right to rule when he asked Eve to eat the apple. The bible also says that the devil is “misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (Revelation 12:9)

The reason I believe many faiths of the world continue to ask this question, CSmithers, is that we as humanity have gradually lost sight of the nature and character of God through our neglect to spend time with Him in prayer and Bible study. Don't forget, in the garden of eden God's character and motives were called into question. Satan basically said, "God is a liar and is selfish,He does not have your best interests in mind".

As Eve listened more and more to Satan the fruit became more and more inviting and lost it's taboo(some scholars say it was a Pomegranate and not a apple but, that's beside the point).As our neglect continues any one of us can fall prey to the Evil one,Satan or the Devil. Any one of us could be Holmes living next door one year and the next year through our neglect or gradual rejection of God fall under the total influence of Satan. Don't forget, Christ made it very clear why Satan does best; Steal, kill and destroy. He knows he's doomed and he wants to take as many human beings with him to the lake of fire as he can.

People like to think they harbor some sort of control over their lives, and to some extent we do by exercise of our will, but, all during our lives, we are either under influence and control of the devil or Christ, there's no middle ground.That's why Christ spoke of Peter as having been given a Divine revelation one moment and the next moment he was called Satan, and these were disciples in Christ's presence, how much more vulnerable are we ?

This is the conclusion; we have all asked ourselves at some point why is Christianity symbolized by a CROSS? It's almost like having a guillotine or some other torture weapon hanging around your neck. The reason is this, at the cross it was forever revealed what God is like and what Satan is like. Up until that point no one, including the Angels, really understood how much God loves mankind. After the cross, the verdict is in, SATAN = Liar, thief, destroyer and... most of all, Murderer. And Christ proved once and for all according to scripture that he does in fact have our best interests in mind and His love is real and aialable to all men.

I'm not shocked to find that a teacher of God cannot understand why God allows this to happen. God didn't man did. We each have been given a gift from God; a revelation of who He is and the free will to do and be a follower of Him or we have the free will to choose to be a follower of Satan. Ultimately, when we leave here, the choice we made of where we will go will be our choice of these two options.

you tackle this problem by always keeping the hammer back.

cocked and locked is the way to travel in this country.

Stay off the freeway Andy.