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NBCNewYork.com
Lloyd Morgan, 4, was pronounced dead after he was shot at a New York City playground on Sunday.
A 4-year-old New York boy died after being struck in the head by a stray bullet on a Bronx playground Sunday evening, police say.
Authorities say gunfire erupted at about 9:30 p.m. at the playground in the Forest Houses in Morrisania, and the child got caught in the crossfire. According to the New York Post, two men, angry over a dispute following a basketball game, began firing at each other.
The boy, identified as Lloyd Morgan, was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital.
“When my friend didn’t see her kid, she panicked,” a woman who said she was a friend of the Morgans told the New York Daily News. “Then she saw him on the floor, shot.”
Lloyd Morgan Sr., the child's father, told the Post this is the second time he is burying a child.
"This is my second child that's been taken away from me," Morgan Sr., 26, told the newspaper.
According to the Post, Morgan Sr.'s then-girlfriend, Shelly Courcelle, was sentenced in 2007 to three to nine years for manslaughter after a medical examiner ruled that their newborn daughter found in a Brooklyn closet in 2006 had died from pressure to her windpipe.
Courcelle pleaded guilty in exchange for the sentence. Morgan Sr., who had been dating the woman for a year, said he had no idea the reportedly heavyset woman had been pregnant.
Authorities say two men were also shot on the playground on Sunday. A 27-year-old was shot in the stomach and a 21-year-old was shot in the arm. Both are expected to survive.
It wasn’t immediately clear whether the two men were innocent bystanders or targets.
Residents described chaos as people began running throughout the park and parents grabbed their children. About 100 people had gathered to watch a basketball game and enjoy a barbecue, the Post reported.
No arrests have been made. Police continue to investigate.
Lawmakers, clergy and residents in the community planned to rally Monday afternoon to call for an end to the violence that has plagued playgrounds and basketball courts throughout the city in recent weeks.
Bronx Assemblyman Eric Stevenson called the most recent incident frustrating and urged anyone who knows who pulled the trigger to step forward.
"We can't tolerate this any longer. Those who know these people need to step forward," Stevenson said. "It's not about snitching. It's about protecting lives of 4-year-olds. And those who know in this community need to step forward."
"Those who are doing these horrendous crimes are going to be caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law," he added. "You're taking the lives of young people. You will be taken out of this community."
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Leave a Comment:
Exactly what do they expect to accomplish with a rally. The thugs who go around shooting people are not going to be moved by such a display. Those who know who did this are not going to be moved by this display.
If they wish to get their point across why not sit in at home in mass for a couple of days. All the innocents sit in and let the police round up the criminals who will only have each other to target.
To stop the bleeding, you have to stop the breeding.
"Exactly what do they expect to accomplish with a rally." Really? you heartless creep, keep your criticism to yourself and show some respect!
They need to do what they need to do, when its your turn do what you feel you should do hope there is no one like you talking trash because it would only make things worse.
txmom32 you are a jerk and a piece of trash, who are you to say what will or will not help? is it your neighborhood? did you just lose your kid?
jburton81 - "a jerk, a piece of trash"? I've been banned for less. Moderator?????????
Gun control is working in the city I see. lolll
if only that 4 year old had a gun. that would have shown those thugs.
commie
Maybe it's because they are not as a big an A@S as you?
RIP you little Angel.
My condolences to family and friends.
unfortunately its too late...guns are already out there...very diffcult gun control or no control
I am pretty sure that people who have no qualms about taking another person's life have no respect for laws concerning the use of guns. You can write as many laws as you want and make it as difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase them as possible, but criminals don't play by the rules.
yea we need more gun laws!!!!!!! new york city toughest gun laws around. had a friend that screwed up took his gun to new york city it was packed in his suitcase. had been on vacation in conn decided to go into the city for an overnight. he was a state trooper from a different state! his suitcase was stolen if you can imagine that in such a fine city. not only was he cited he has been on a desk ever scince. and before you comment he was standing in a line with his suitcase right next to him.
You know, I miss the days when "gangsters" whipped out a knife instead of a gun in a fight. At least then, only those that were stupid enough to be involved would be killed and there wouldn't be any stray bullets for innocent bystanders to worry about.
USA! USA! USA!
How does one interpret the Second Amendment? Please note, it was an amendment to the Preamble and Articles of the Constitution stating the purpose and the structure and function of the new government. The first amendment, thus the most important point the founders wanted to make was regarding freedom of speech, religion and assembly. Why? It was the first reason they felt that they lost their freedom under European dominance. What was the second reason they felt they had to go to war? Tyranny of the government/monarchy. For that reason they insisted on the citizenry's right to have a well-regulated militia and to bear arms on its behalf. That is the right. It's not the right to own whatever you want to kill other citizens.
Maybe Obama should visit all the black neighborhoods in America and highlight the black on black violence that's going on in the inner cities. Don't bet on it though...it's not his scene anymore...too much of a risky issue for our brave president.
TXmom,
No one cares to influence the people who do the shooting, they are beyond help. What the rally WILL do, is motivate the people in these communities to stand up and speak out against the thugs responsible. Without witnesses, these guys walk.
I am a pro-gun supporter, because I want to be able to fight back when some miscreant starts shooting up my neighborhood. As a member of the US military, I have pledged to protect the United States against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. I further pledge to use my training and the knowledge gained from the Army to help defend my community in that respect.
Would the NRA like to explain again why stronger laws about fire arms shouldn't be enacted. First Co now NY and that's only what's been reported.
They are hoping to change this attitude of not being moved. If they can't change the attitude of those that perpetrate these crimes, they are hoping to change the attitude of those that may know something.
This is a sort of rally that helps build community connections - if you take the time to get to know someone and share something in common with them, you are more likely to care about them and speak up when something bad happens to them. Communities that know each other are more likely to notice when something is wrong.
They hope to bring changes to the community - those changes may not been seen immediately. But, they have to do something. It's either take back your community or give up. I think it's encouraging that these people putting on the rally and those that will attend are trying not to give up.
Precisely wrong. That is EXACTLY what this rally is for. So those who know but are too afraid to come forward can see the harm it is causing our communities.
Such vitriol from folks who've probably never faced the social challenges those who reside in housing projects do. For your sakes, I hope you never have to face the loss of a child. For your sakes, I hope you grow a conscience and learn to love ALL of your fellow Americans, not just those who share your skin color.
And 1.2 and 1.8, play nice, you will probably get popped for that, and you deserve to.
mj-1451595
if only that 4 year old had a gun. that would have shown those thugs.
If only you had a brain, maybe you might come up with a more original post.
Ron-975213
Oh no, you're not stating the obvious at all, and not a racist. Don't bet on it though........
lady cat do you think these were law abiding citizens
Lady cat; how much stronger laws can there be then in NYC, a total ban is in effect for the last 20 years, do you think the Gang-bangers get their guns from a legal source; the problem is the culture that the people in the inner community's are raised , they are totally disconnected with main stream reality.
Lady Cat
NYC has some of the toughest gun laws in the country. Gun laws don't apply to gang bangers. Chicago is another example.
What do you expect coming from these projects? Due to the lucrative drug trade in the area, many addicts reside in the community. Peer pressure among children who come from broken homes contributes to the high rate of usage.
Many households in the area are headed by a single mother, which contributes to the high poverty rate. Many of the families living in Morrisania have been in poverty for generations. Morrisania is home to a significant number of inmates currently held in New York state prison and jail facilities.
The majority of residents in the area are of African American, Puerto Rican, and a growing Dominican population. Maybe, they can invite President Obama & his family to rally with them. Gun laws don't apply to these thugs. These thugs should be labeled terrorists.
We all know the real problem is selfishness, human selfishness. Work on your own understanding of humanity as one Nation. Consider the human body, a collective of cells with the same intention and a cooperative nature. Every cell has individuality, an integral job, self determination with community support. Here is how wealth happens in the body, First, every cell gets what it needs. Then every cell gets wealthy together, once all cells have all the energy they want and can store, the rest goes into community reserves....we aren't even as smart as our cells....they don't typically go around gunning for each other or terrified of each other.........Simply, the answer is LOVE for each other, for this hosting planet, for the life giving star we call the sun, for all the living beings we share it with. We should start loving it and each other. We used to understand how to be stewards of this paradise.
I live in NYC. Believe me, we have some of the most stringent gun laws in the country. Sadly, the only people who are arrested under these gun laws are legal gun owners who travel here from out-of-state and aren't aware that their legal ownership carries no weight in this city or state. Criminal thugs laugh off these laws.
As for this sad incident and the call for rallys to combat such incidents, rallys may help coerce those with information who are afraid to come forward to actually do so. However, there is a bigger problem: those who have information who won't come forward simply because they have a sense of pride in not being a snitch. I think they view "snitching" as an even worse transgression than killing. And there tends to be an incredibly strong anti-police sentiment in these communities to begin with. People with those kinds of attitudes aren't going to be swayed by rallys or candlelight vigils.
So people don't want to be known as snitches but it is okay to be known as someone who protects people who shoot kids in playgrounds and use children as shields ?
The thugs don't give a rats a$$ about the law. If they did we wouldn't have any thugs at all. We have drunk driving laws, they don't stop the drunk from getting behind the wheel of a car and stricter laws aren't going to stop them.
I am a female and I am a gun owner, I don't go around shooting people up. I obey the law!
Why? Because ALL gun control laws are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment says that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". All gun control laws, by their very nature, infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms, and are therefore unconstitutional.
People people people, lets move on from the whole gun control issue. It doesn't work. It won't work, and its against my rights. NYC is the MOST gun regulated city in the country, and you know what, it has hurt more honest citizens than criminals. Its a joke. Figure out what makes a person want to kill another person and start there, that is the real problem. And if you can't figure a way to stop that, THEN WE DEFINITELY NEED OUR GUNS to stop them. This country would not even be if it wasn't for God guns and guts (some whiskey too), if you can't grasp that, or respect that, good bye. Your destroying our country.
Sorry f hill, but anyone who's been through basic training understands that they bear the ultimate responsibility for security of their weapon no matter what. I support your right to bear arms, but absolutely believe that these rights are forfeit for those who don't adequately secure their weapons. Could be a child who stole that suitcase. Your friend deserves his suspension to desk duty. Were it up to me, he'd never carry a duty weapon again. It's irresposible gun owners that put our right to bear arms at risk.
What's a 4 year old doing at a park at 9 PM? And the story indicates the mother was "looking" for her son. WTF?? I really now do believe the animal kingdom creates better mothers than mankind...
Personally I don't believe there is a call to collapse J Burton or any who feel the way he does or even those who choose to converse in illiterate speak and profanity. At least they stand for something and well perhaps they would be moved by a rally although I doubt those who know anything will come forward.
The folks with character are the victims and those who victimize them have been killing their children. A couple of weeks ago it was a young girl who was out in the neighborhood playing with her friends in the coolness of the evening and I am sure there have been others as well. So have they managed to stop any violence via rally? Have they had a good record of folks stepping up to say "Yes it was little Johnny or little Susie who pulled the trigger?" Do they have a track record of resurrecting the souls of young people involved in gangs and gang violence? I'm sure if there were some sort of positive return for rallies that it would actually be revealed as a sign of hope.
Military Man....first thank you for your service and a reasonable response. I truly wish something as simple as a rally would move people to conscience. Personally, I think they would have a better response with a memorial for the child where leaders in the community actually spoke on behalf of innocence murdered. Where parents of murdered children stood up to observe the lives of their loved ones who were callously killed by impassoinate murderers.
I ppersonally think that if they staged a sit in at home action for a 48 hour period these parents would receive more support from their city and community. Let the streets go quite of children for 48 hours. Let the criminals have a clear site for other criminals and let the police take care of civic business.
Poisonivy85...so I completely understand your point of view....I don't necessarily agree with it...I believe there to be a society, even in the poorest drug and crime infested areas of our country, of people who just want to live safely and afford their children every available opportunity to escape that environment and work very hard to do so. I know several people who have and they are growing out of poverty and raising their families in a safer community. Particularly, single mothers who have taken advantage of civic programs, in earnest, toward education and training and elevating their families from poverty. Even those who have clawed back from mistakes of drugs or crime to move forward because they have corrected their course in life.
Personally, I believe there is hope I just don't see how a small scale communtiy"rally" is going to make a difference. If NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, Kansas City, Houston or any other area where criminals are murdering children wish to stop these crimes then "the Rally" needs to go big. It needs to be promoted by City leadership, it needs to be coordinated to include large swaths of the larger community standing together, it needs to put the pictures and stories of the victims in the face of the criminals. It needs to include Star power, political power, community power to tell the criminals that they are outnumbered. Honestly, in many of those big Cities they are also out gunned.
These efforts need to be campaigns and the criminals need to know they will not get a pass when they steal the life of a child and in spite of some self-perceived sense of power through gang affiliation or illegal fire arms they are out numbered. If you want people to stepup and and turn these shooters in then they have to know that they will be better off for standing up and telling the truth. They need to be inspired by someone they consider a hero.
As for enhanced gun laws...that is just ridiculous...people have a right to protect themselves and their families. Gang thugs aren't buying guns legally. So laws are not at issue. For the person who wants to bring up the Colorado Theater massacre...how many lives would have been saved if someone in the theater had a hand gun in their possession? There were good people who died because they were cornered and unprepared.
@ K.Truant, I guess the ghetto kingdom isn't as evolved as the animal kingdom?
no.
I agree what is a 4 year old doing in at a playground at 9:30 Pm?
11B2EB4,
So by your standards a officer in uniform, get knocked in the head, gun taken/lost, deserves to be on desk duty...
I'm sure that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpass will be at this rally. Oh wait..... it was just another black on black crime. Nevermind
The tougher than @!$%# gun laws in NY are useless for losers such as these it doesn't matter... These Animals behave this way all the time in places like Chicago, NY and California and what do all these states have in common 8)
Tough GUN LAWS and they do not stop @!$%#s from killing innocence.
GUN LAWS are USELESS for criminals
Don't be ridiculous! Hand guns are illegal in New York City.
They are all run by Liberal moronic dictators that have their heads buried so deep that they need glass belly buttons to see the next stupid thing that they are going to do. Is that where you were going with that question?
@ gene, your point? Mine is that the NRA has misinterpreted the amendment and thus we have uncontrolled, unregulated weapons distribution and use...not what the amendment intends.......
Gotta love NBCSnooze. They didn't have time to research whether the other 2 guys shot were "innocent bystanders" or shooters but they did have time to research the father's other illegitimate child's death.
That's when the "good Johns" start coming out.
Or...You're right, don't his parents need to get up early to go to work in the morning? No. that's not it.
Fedup,I feel what you're saying.I am a retired EMS tech from Detroit and I worked what was then the most violent precinct in the country.I don't know what will stop these people from their violence when they refuse to understand that until they step up to the plate,noone can stop it.They refuse to "snitch" to the police,they refuse to tell the truth to police,EMS,fire,etc.The whole culture is a mess and I realized that as much as I wanted to help people,most of them were beyond help or only wanted handouts,not help to do for themselves."Getting over" and "gettin mine" are 2 big mantras in the inner city and amongst the black culture.I am not prejudice for saying this.These are facts.When people in that culture don't like something they threaten to "riot".And the good people of that culture are either afraid or refuse to turn in their own.Well,then what do they expect anyone to do.I left because of a back injury and I was tired of feeling like a target.I wanted to raise my children with an acceptable level of safety.Our ambulance was shot at twice and I was assaulted on the job twice.Thanks but I did my time in the warzone.Good luck to them but I can't help them,only they can stop the crap.
The slow decline of America brought to you by the Democratic party. enjoy!
K. Truant. Here we go again, blaming the parent. But, why always the mother. Where is the hell is the father.
To answer your question. It is very hot in New York. It is summer vacation. He was probably outside with his parent, one or both. When bullets start firing, it is not hard to lose track for a second or two.
Really geo, the Democratic party. lol. Who is the do nothing Congress. Who are the hateful Governors who sign away rights. Who are the hateful representatives going after the poor voters.
Republicans is the right answer here.
Blame the damn people who did the shooting.
The second amendment was for citizens to protect themselves against the government so is the 1st.
In past years the SC has changed the Constitution to meet the needs of the few (like the NRA). Unless we start talking a little more pleasant to each other, guns laws won't mean a thing.
4 year old, 930pm at a park. ANyone see anything wrong with the parenting here? How late were you allowed to stay up when you were 4 years old? 7pm at the latest? Yet this child is in the park at 930pm and gets taken by a bullet. The family screams about the violence in the area? What? Are you kidding me? they should be "fixed" so they can never have any children ever again!!! Society has gone so far downhill that this seems to be the norm now! Silly, so very silly. Sad that a child had to lose their life but the parents should be held accountable for BAD PARENTING!!!! Why would you have your child in the park at 930pm, especially if youknow it is a bad area? You are unfit and YOU ARE TO BLAME! Thats right, IT IS YOUR FAULT!!!
I hope you never sleep again for what you have done to that poor innocent child. You should have caught that instead of your child! you, are , a, FAIL!
Disabled Vet. In the summertime, school break, we were allowed to stay up until the sun was long gone. Didn't have to get up for school. Nothing wrong with a four year up until all hours. There are parents who work that keep their children up so they can be with them for a few hours.
The people to blame are the ones shooting.
Disabled Vet. Your head must have been damaged. But, if you are a vet, thanks for your service.
The NRA is just a LOBBY, nothing more. Why would you, anyone, think a lobby, any lobby has your best interests, or any citizens of a country, as being theirs? Their goal is ONLY to make money in order to remain in existance. It's called staying viable.
But this is not supposed to happen in NYC because guns are outlawed there.
Oh, that's right - Outlaws can still have guns - it's only law-abiding citizens that can't have guns.
All those racist comments about Black on Black crime, ghetto thugs, Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, etc. ad nauseum -- who was it that just recently shot up a theater full of innocent citizens? PHUCKED up people come in ALL COLORS!
For all you petty people who want to know why the little boy was in the park at 9:00 pm, although it is none of your business:
I do agree that a 4 year should not be out and about at 9:30 at night, but that is beside the point. Would you still talk that way if it had happened during the daytime? Berating the parents won't help the violence problem. Since they can't control who has guns, perhaps they could put metal detectors to prevent people from entering certain places with guns? They could use silent alarms to alert police and hidden cameras to take pictures of those people tripping the alarm... they could place them in playgrounds, public buildings, malls, etc.
It sure doesn't take long for people to lay the misplaced blame - "why was a 4 year old out at 9:30 at night?" If he had been in bed and then a 15 year old girl gets shot instead, somehow that makes it more palatable? The issue is thugs holding their communities hostage!!
When will the gangstas learn to shoot straight so that nobody else but them gets killed?
I was thinking the same thing. Not that it would change the culture of violence and disregard for human life that is dominant in some of these poorer, underprivileged areas, but a 4 year old should've been at home and in bed hours earlier. Proper parenting could've saved at least this one child's life.
Lawmakers, clergy and residents in the community planned to rally Monday afternoon to call for an end to the violence that has plagued playgrounds and basketball courts throughout the city in recent weeks.
They have rally after rally and yet nothing changes. Look at that poor child in the picture.
Why do so many wish to blame the parents for the death of their child when they in fact are victims of the criminal who decided to kill.
People in the United States should have a reasonable expectation that: theaters, basketball games at a local court, the streets in front of their homes where there children play, neighborhood parks, schools, malls etc are all safe places for families to gather or kids to play. I don't know the community but in principle it should not differ from mine. All children should have the expectation to be safe in their community. Not just affluent or middle class but also those living in poor communities. I can only imagine about 50 scenarios where it absolutely makes sense for children, even young children, to be out in the community in the evening...special event, how many people stay home when there is a fireworks display? If your home is not air-conditioned or you rely on a small unit to keep your apartment cool in the summer perhaps it is more comfortable to be out in the evening air until bed time. How about a community block event that is scheduled so that most in the neighborhood could attend. what about neighbors just out and keeping company so kids can play with adult supervision.
It really is time that we recognize the real criminals for murders and stop trying to tell parents that they are at fault. My thoughts and prayers are with the parents of this little boy and all other victims of sensless violence that takes the lives of babies.
I think a more viable conversation is to ask Eric Holder to explain why the American Government allowed guns to be delivered to Mexican cartels. I think it would be interesting to ask Eric Holder if he offers the same opportunity to American gangs.
Honestly, the NRA is not giving anyone guns. They are an organization that supports the rights of Americans to own guns within the laws of our Country and they offer opportunity for courses and competition.
@nc open heart #1.45
NO, the NRA has not misinterpreted the 2nd Amendment. The liberals have. They use their new modern definitions of words to distort the Constitution.
From the Kansas State Constitution:
Bill of Rights #4: A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, for lawful hunting and recreational use, and for any other lawful purpose; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.
Article #8 Militia:The militia shall be composed of all able-bodied male citizens between the ages of twenty-one and forty-five years, except such as are exempted by the laws....
This constitution was based on the US Constitution, so as of 1863, one should reasonably deduce that the right to keep and bear arms in defense of self or country is an individual right not of a collective militia.
I KNOW people aren't asking WHY a 4 year old was out at a "B-B-Que and B-Ball Game at 9:30" when a 4 month old was out a MIDNIGHT at a Movie Theatre when a MASS shooting happened on Friday!!! Stop talking about crap that doesn't matter for a change people! An innocent child has been killed. THAT is the ISSUE!
A six year old at the movies after 12AM and a 4 year old outside playing at 9:30 PM don't people know that children need to sleep and what time they should be in bed anymore?
don't bother these idiots are fat white trash trolls who never leave their roach infested trailers
posting hate on the vines.. to get a reaction.
An innocent child out with his parents at a Neighborhood BBQ was murdered. This is not, I repeat NOT an issue of Gun Control. This is most blatently a case of People out of control. Two thugs argue over a freaking Basketball game and pull out their guns. WHAT KIND OF SPINELESS PIECE OF DOG TURD DOES THAT? The only person lower on the evolutionary scale is the SPINELESS PUDDLE OF WASTE. that covers for the DOG CRAP. You are as guilty of this child's death as the DOG TURD that shot the small boy. AFRAID OF BEING CALLED A SNITCH ? OMG! Anyone who knows who murdered this child and remains silent should suffer the same punishment . You really think the Lord will forgive you? Good luck with that.
What about women and 18 year olds?
Where in my statement did you get the idea I was blaming the mother for the shooting? I do not! I do however blame the mother for poor parenting! Im curious what time his bed time is if he is still outside at 9 pm at 4 yrs of age, perhaps by 10 he doesn't have to come home at all. It's obvious you dont have children because parents that care for their chilfren have strict bedtimes and a schedule that keeps the child healthy and happy. Too many mothers treat small children more as fashion statements, they don't did't change their teenage (singke) way of live to raise a child, instead they just include the child into their single teenage way of life, this may be cool to them and their friends but its not the atmosphere for a stable unbringing. If you diasagree this is the norm then you are too young & naive to understand yourself.
Wait a minute now. I'm gonna tell Al and Jesse that you are being racist and I'll let Uncle Janet know that what you are doing is racial profiling. You is assuming that them there roaches ain't just the family pets. You just wait, yer gonna get it!
Dammit Debi, get back in the kitchen.
primenumbers
The trash are the ones that just because they cant afford a babysitter thinks its OK to take babies anywhere and do whatever they did when they were single and without children; REGARDLESS its bbq, REGARDLESS its a Ball game; REGARDLESS anything... Babies require an established regular bedtime; and if you as a mother CANT make a movie date with your cool friends because you decided to have a baby then believe it or not the baby's bedtime SHOULD be more important than a damn movie or BBQ. This is the difference between adjusting your life to RAISING a child and just having them then letting society raise them.
@K.Truant - Obviously you were never allowed to attend neighborhood parties. If you read the article you would know that there were lots of people there. The child was not out alone. You imply that it was a teenage mother. Again Read the article before you post. But perhaps you are too young and naive to do this.
Enjoying your 15 minutes?
Slightlyold: Please actually read the article!! A four year old being UP at 9:30 is one thing. A four year old being OUT OF THE HOUSE and his mother DOESN'T KNOW WHERE HE IS is completely different. There is absolutely no excuse for a child of that age being out of the house without his parent's knowledge at that time of night. Gross negligence if you ask me (and I'm not the only one who thinks so)
In the summer, we often stayed up till all hours or, if we went out later in the evenings, we were with our folks but if we were out playing in the neighborhood when the streetlights came on, three sets of feet better be hitting the front porch or we'd better have called to say why we weren't. Again, there is no excuse. Yes, the thugs pulling the trigger are mostly to blame, but if the child had been IN the house, where he belonged at 9:30 at night, he would not have been caught in the crossfire. Simple logic.
Ok, Ok jimreaper. I'll get back as soon as I finish polishing my Glock. Lol
My kinda girl!
ann anonymous
Our family was at every party and went to lots of events, and we camped all summer long... but at 4 of years old by 8 o:clock regardless what went on I was in bed! You missed my point, said look around at the teenage mothers, I didn't say she was a teenage mother but taking a baby out late is a teenage habit. Its still the difference of raising your kids or just adding babies to your teenage (single) lifestyle. The problem is these "mothers" are more involved in their social lives than the welfare of their children; I don't expect anyone under the age of 25 to agree with me, still doesn't mean I'm wrong on this one.
@usagi-sensei I think you should probably read the article again. It didn't say that the mother was in her house not knowing where the child was. She was with him at the park. What I got from the article was that after the shooting and chaos ensued, she couldn't find her child and then she saw him lying on the ground. Where does it say in the article that she wasn't there with him? Please don't criticize other people when your ignorance shows as well.
I'm also a bit curious as to what law requires children to be in their house at 9:30? There was apparently a large event going on. My parents occasionally took us to places such as to watch the fireworks on the 4th of July and to a laser light show that required it to be dark before it could be performed. On those special occasions, we weren't in bed by our bed time. We don't know that this wasn't a special occasion. Maybe the entire extended family was there and their kids were all playing together having a good old time. It's difficult to judge when we don't know. I for one cannot blame the mother for what happened. That's taking the blame off the criminals and putting it where it doesn't belong.
Debi-1314897
@Debi-1314897 #1.69
"What about women and 18 year olds?"
I guess the state of Kansas does not recognize them as composing the militia, they can still join the Army. ;-)
K. Truant,
you don't sound like a mother but if you are I feel for your kids. This mother did anything wrong, there is no laws on parenting or wrong or right, many mothers around the world raise their kids differently, I come from a culture where kids play until late at night, had dinner at 9pm and I never witnessed any type of violence, murder against young kids. once again, IT'S NOT THE MOTHER'S FAULT. Stop blaming her and her "parenting skills" . You think you aren't wrong but you are not right either. I'm sure that if you are a mother (I really doubt that) your parenting skills aren't perfect either. LOOK IN A MIRROR.
@ mo-563393 #1.68
YOUR ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! thanks for bringing a splash of reality to this discussion.
"What was a 4 year old child doing out at 9pm?" Probably enjoying some time outdoors when it's not 150 million degrees C outside, getting some exercise after being stuck inside all day. (Not sure how hot is was in NYC, but it was 106°F here in sunny Kansas.
And instead of talking gun control, how about talking "people control", that is to say, how about teaching good manners? respect? discipline? sportsmanship? since this after all happened at a sporting event. Maybe it's time to bring back corporal punishment in the schools, I don't recall anything like this happening in my youth. (which wasn't that long ago)
My sympathies and condolences go out to this "family".
Eve
You have reading comprehension problems; never once did I blame the shooting on the mother. You feel sorry for my kids because I love them, and as another one that slammed me said.. It OK for a 4 year to be out wandering because there is lots of people there.. If you cannot see the danger in that comment then I feel for your children's safety! Never would I let a 4 year old wander out alone, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, are YOU NUTS! I always knew where my young children were, remember we are discussing preschoolers here not teenagers! I can tell you are the parent that lets their children stay up as late as they want on a school night then blame the teachers when the child fall behind in school.. this is the difference between raising (teaching) a child and letting society raise them. Its selfish parents that believe their social life is more important than their children's well being... I knew where my children were all the time. What do you say to the thousands of parents that lost their babies because they had the same attitude; believing that a 4 year old is only enough to look after themselves in public because that's EXACTLY what you are saying! My kids had a great, fun and safe childhood... and guess what, I never had the attitude problems with mine as many do, because my kids life style was consistent, by the time school started, getting them to sleep was never a problem...
To: Obama, a failed experiment
And the President would have what to do with this? Like this hasn't been going on and on and on????
To NC open heart:
Study history. Man is a war making machine. Even those who call themselves religious and God loving can't seem to get along. It's sad but true.
K Truant, For the love of Mike! Go read the story! This baby wasn't alone. He was with his family at the Neighborhood BBQ ! Putting your children to bed at 8pm every night does not make you a good parent . Spending time with your children does. 26 years Providing Foster Care care 15 doing childcare. I promise I'm over 25. You teach your children by word and deed. The world has stepped away from raising children with love, respect and bounderies. Children need rules and bounderies. Most important children need role models. This horrible tradgedy could have been prevented by Scum walking away from a stupid game without the need to draw guns. The guns proved what? Only that these thugs had no self control, no self worth or respect for anyone. Blame them and the slime that cover for them. Snitch? How bout Hero. Someone needs to be a HERO.
MO, I have not once blamed the shooting on the mother, so get off your high horse. As for young preschoolers, teaching them is what they respond to, as they grow and understand situations more THEN role models are important but not before; A 4 year cannot decipher the difference between a good role model and a pedophile! Putting a child to be by 8 regularly gives a child a schedule, this gives young children a sense of security and better health. If they don't have a schedule you have an unruly child, this is a FACT! I agree with you, the world has turned away from raising children with love, even the women I personally know all had their first babies only because their friends had one first and received all the attention the first couple months, the babies were just fashion statements. I also have years of experience dealing with Foster Parents.. most I have seen collect their pay and shovel the kids along!
“When my friend didn’t see her kid, she panicked,” a woman who said she was a friend of the Morgans told the New York Daily News. “Then she saw him on the floor, shot.”
DIRECT QUOTE.
I say we ban playgrounds!
Who's with me?
Placing such places in such dangerous places! (hey, that's almost a Dr. Seuss!)
Might as well cover all of my bases:
Where's Jesse Jackson? Where's Al Sharpton?
My work here is done. Goodnight all.
My best to the father and family.
Record levels of gun violence in New York City, Chicago and Philadelphia. What do those cities have in common? They have some of the strongest gun control laws in the country. Evidence that gun control laws do not work. Pull your head out of your butt Bloomberg.
At somepoint in the future I hope the collective intelligence and reasoning of the populace and politicians of the United States realize the platitude "Guns make us safer" is as outdated as "seperate but equal".
sorry, "separate"
William - please, as if these are legal gun owners. Criminals have a funny way of not caring about paying attention to things like laws. So if people like you have their way, the only people who will be armed are the criminals. That's the way it is here in NJ, a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country.
So how is NYCs gun control laws making the streets safer? Most restrictive laws in the land and yet mayhem still happens. I know, lets put the shooter's in some special diversity program to make them feel better about themselves. After all they are victims too, right? Its the gun's fault.
Start your ban on Ford F-250s yet?
I've been waiting for it in the press in the last few days. In light of the Aurora thing, I told myself...SURELY my fellow Americans will understand that our gun-mad, gun-easy culture is killing people, and it's time to say, "enough is enough." SURELY we'll start to talk about how it can't go on this way. I was deluding myself, apparently. For a large majority of Americans, there is no body count too high to stop worshiping guns.
RIP Little guy.
Sorry city folk. You will never take the freedom of owning a gun away from country folk like me. You will need to put a fence around your city and declare yourselves a communist state and recede from the union. We will never let you take our guns away from us. Why is it in the country you never hear about this nonsense. It is because we do not live like animals out here. We know what it means to own a gun. We don't shoot where innocent people can be hit. We wear orange when we hunt in order that other hunters can see us so we don't get shot. The cities have gone crazy and we do not have to lay our guns down because you all are nuts. Sorry my freedom is more important than your city psychosis.
Who needs Al-Qaeda to bring us terror? Everyday, some American, thug or insane, brings it to your neighborhood.
While I don't like guns, there is a certain "urban inner city" mentality that also must be blamed.
In which direction should they "recede"??
Sorry, but somehow I doubt that this tragic murder was caused by any one of the 8 million men and women in the U.S. licensed to carry a handgun. Nor probably any other legitimate gun owner. I'll wager that when these thugs are caught we will find that they've already been convicted of other crimes in the past and that it isn't even legal for them to possess a firearm.
Gun control is not the answer - the answer is criminal control.
My most sincere and heartfelt condolences to the Morgans for this crushing, senseless loss.
I first want to say to the family of the 4 year old, my prayers are for you. Second, I wish to say when these people are caught, I hope they recieve Capital Punishment for this act. Third, being a gun owner, guns are only as safe as the people who are handling them. Alot of people want guns banning, I do not. If they ever banned guns, you better start banning cars next, cause these idiots would just start running you down in them. The Punishment does'nt fit the crimes anymore. This person, whoever he/she is, if convicted should recieve the Death Penality.
Clearly the problem is not guns, it's men. Get rid of those and all will be well......oh, wait.......crap!
Tracey, that doesn't seem to ever happen. When people get shot the cry is always that if more had guns we would all be safer. Sure. It would have been much safer if more people had been shooting. How sad another innocent life is lost.
Plaxico Burress got 2 years in jail for SHOOTING HIMSELF!!! NY gun laws are strict. Have they caused anything like this from not happening?
You gun people don't share a brain cell between you. You don't get it. We don't want to regulate the sales of guns, we want to ban them for anyone except the police.
Do you get that, you thimble wit? If no one had guns, no one would get shot.
At least you stand a chance with a knife or a club. You can outrun it.
Mj, you are shallow minded to think if guns were banned, and only cops and criminals had them, we would all be safer.
Because the criminals aren't walking into the nearest gun shop to buy weapons. These weapons were at one point purchased legally, then made their way to the streets. Stop the flow of weapons, and the criminals will have less access.
But like the tobacco industry, there is too much money involved to do the right thing and stop gun sales.
MJ---------Two things, first---according the National Association of, Chiefs of police, every jurisdiction, that has passed right to carry laws, the violent crime rate has dropped.
Not one, not some, in every case.
2nd---The Constitution of the United State guarantees citizens the right to be armed.
236 years ago, our founding fathers saw you quasi socialists coming and installed the 2nd Amendment
The leftys know they can never take the country socialist as long as the citizenry is armed, they will never quit trying
mj-
I am pretty sure that people who have no qualms about taking another person's life have no respect for laws concerning the use of or ownership of guns. You can write as many laws as you want and make it illegal for law abiding citizens to own guns, but criminals don't play by the rules. They will find a way to buy them illegally and use them in their asinine "turf wars". When an armed thug breaks into your home at 3 am and tries to harm your family, you will wish you had a gun. Did that get through your thick skull to your brain cell?
Gun control is ineffective at the local level if you can drive for half an hour to some other locality where handguns are freely available. Where would criminals get guns if there were not an almost infinite supply of legal gunowners they could steal them from? Manufacture them themselves in their basements? I don't think the majority of criminals have the required skill set or equipment.
mj-1451595
You and wor can share your collective brain cell all you want. But your naive comments isn't convincing anyone. Until the criminal and lunatic elements can be eradicated, I'll hold on to my guns.
Just in case, lets ban machine shop tools too.
I don't know how many guns are in my township, definitely more than the human population easily and we have not had a shooting accidental or otherwise. I am safe here. Maybe you Libby-ians should look at the problems. Lack of morals, jobs, education and criminals that worship thug life to mention just a few of America's problems. You want our guns-bring along plenty of body bags and people to carry your sorry asses.
MJ.. China has strict ban on guns.. as in if you are found with one and you're not police or military, you get life in prison. Funny how it never stops the Triad or other gangs there from having guns. Until you've live an extensive time in another country where guns are banned, don't even comment on how effective it would be.
I don't subscribe to the banter of the ultra right-wing, "you can have my weapon when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.", crowd, but as a member of the US military I can see that stricter gun control only limits what LAW abiding citizens are allowed to do. With all the illegal weapons on the streets, the equalizer needs to be the responsible citizens with the power to defend themselves, not to take the place of the Police, but who are able to respond to threats in an immediate fashion.
It's unfortunate that our society has bread the types of people who actively ignore the law, that's what greed and poverty will produce. The further widening of the gap between the extremely wealthy and the poor, along with the reduction of the middle-class will continue to errode the structure of US society and cause more and more despirate people to commit crimes in order to survive.
Now, we have the wealthy buying our government in order to make even more money. So far, there have been a number of extremely wealthy Americans give up their citizenship to move to other countries, so they don't have to live up to their obligations to the people they've built their fortunes on. This will continue to happen until the wealthy destroy this country and move on like a swarm of locust.
2kmaro - point made on the criminal control! If they ever catch the shooter he will probably have done time before. He will probably do 4 or 5 years in a nice climate controled prison cell playing ass grab with his gangsta buddies, eating food and wearing clothes that are all paid for by the taxpayer. Seriously, what would be wrong with a box of bullets and the old "thirty three cent solution".
MJ
It appears, as you so eloquently put it, that you are the "thimble wit". It does not matter in the least if you make it illeagle for anyone but military and law enforcement to carry a gun. I hate to tell you but there are some pretty "less than honorable" people who wear a badge. Not near as many as those who aren't but there still are. And guess what...the only difference there will be if they ever do take away our right to own a gun, is you won't be able to go to a sporting goods store to buy them...you'll have to buy them illegally. So there will STILL be guns and there will STILL be crimes committed with guns. Not to mention the fact that a lot of crimes are committed with illeagal firearms. So making all guns illegal will make no difference.
mj - Yeah! You got it! We see how well you and the police can control the flow of guns. "Fast and Furious" comes to mind first. A shining example of how well our government looks out for our health and well-being.
TFNJ. To reply to your statement. No, it was an intelligent man who walked into the gun store and bought guns, and took them to a theater. Don't have to be a criminal to use guns, until they are used for that purpose.
mj-it's too late to put that into place. You would have to get rid of all the guns first, and it would be impossible to do so. Many people (law abiding and otherwise) would hide their guns-plus if the guns were collected by registration number, well then only the properly registered guns would be collected. The rest would remain on the streets. No matter how one went about doing this, thousands of guns would slip through the cracks.
But let's say somehow you could take everyone's guns away and only have police with guns. Are you saying that all police officers are not corruptible? Is it not plausible that someone would become a police officer with the intent of hooking up their gang-member friends with guns? It would only take one, and then we'd be right back where we started-with the criminals with the guns.
@mj-1451595 #2.15
And just exactly how am I suppose to out run a criminal with a knife or club, since I no longer have an ankle in my right leg? I stepped on a land mine in Kuwait in '91 putting out oil well fires. (I was lucky it only fractured my lower leg and didn't do worse damage, I guess it was a dud) Oh, I still get around pretty well, but I sure as heck can't run. I am definitely the "I have to stand my ground type". Or perhaps, you don't consider the handicapped or crippled worthy of self defense?
Talk about not sharing brain cells, and you hippy liberals claim to be such humanitarians. I call BS.
Probably one of Bloombergs under cover people shooting at shadows.
You people need to stop blaming the mayors, the politicians and society and blame the aholes that are doing this!
Who the hell does NY city think they are.............CHICAGO?
Is that location gang land ghetto ? bullets fly...inside and out. People are lucky if they miss them.
unbelievable.. we blame the mayors and politicians because of their ineffective solutions. They refuse to see reality and only pander to public for votes. If even one came out and truthfully say what need to be said about current thug and gang culture that continues to prey on these communities, they be kicked out of office. How can they be effective when political correctness prevents them from doing or saying anything that may be misconstrued as racism.
Nope, he won't let 'em touch guns. They're baaad!
Okay . . . I'll ask the glaring question . . . why is a four year old out on a playground at 9:30 p.m.???
Here comes the "blame the parents" crowd!
My first thought.
Because the weather has been very hot and this was in a project (poor residential area of the Bronx) where not everyone can afford A/C. It might be a glaring question for someone who doesn't live in a large hot city but the "real glaring" question is why people have guns in an urban environment? I see this as a legitimate question but I always asked a similar type question of why Sarah Palin could stand on the tarmac of JFK at 20 degrees with a challenged baby in her hands at midnight giving a political speech? Sorry to drift from the sad topic here but we all seem to have questions when it comes to stupidity. Like why wasn't Child Services called on Palin?
Think Wise, you are not correct. I grew up in NYC without A/C. My parents would not have taken me out at 9:30 period. They were good hardworking people who understood about rearing a healthy child.
"blame the parents". Of course the parents have some culpability!! How could you say otherwise?!? They weren't at curch when this happened - she didn't even SEE her child get shot-just the aftermath. She wasn't even WATCHING her 4-yo, while she had him out at night, in a park in one of the most dangerous areas of NY....
The mother will live with this guilt for the rest of her life. It is sad and terrible, but her guilt is justified.
I am truely sorry for your loss but I have the same question but what was a 4 yr old doing out at 930 at night? I'm not blaming the parents for anything I'm just wondering. When my kids were that age they were in bed at that time.
Yes Jenn, yes Corgi, it's all the parent's fault...
Same reason there was a 6 month old in a theater at midnight.
Why are they out at 9:30? Probably just getting started you can do that when you don't have to work in the morning.
I'm confused by most of your posts, so please explain. Is 9:30 PM so astronomically late to most of you? Are most of you asleep by then, so that this time seems so amazing?
Its summer time, and plenty of activity outside in the city. Its not so amazing that someone was outside with their kid at 9:30pm. But please clarify where some of you see such a glaring problem..
"why is a four year old out on a playground at 9:30 p.m.???"
Isn't this a free country? Nothing in the constitution that says you have to be smart.
Let's blame everyone else, except the parents.
A 4 year old being out at 9:30 pm does seem odd to me. But, that's me and it's based on my life experiences and my family's schedule. I have to get up by 4:30 am, my boys get up by 5:30 am - which means they do need to be in bed by 8:30 to 9:00 and asleep by 9:30 (though, they do better if they are asleep by 9:00 pm).
I don't know this woman's schedule. If she works, perhaps she gets off work late, and this is when she has to spend time with her son. Now, I know some of you will say that she wasn't watching her child - yes, the article says when she didn't see her kid. However, this comment was about the aftermath of the shooting. Shootings are chaotic. It is just as likely that she was watching her son, and in the chaos of the shooting lost track of him and couldn't see him due to having lost track of him during the chaos. It happens, we would all like to think that we keep perfect focus on our children at all times, even through chaos and extreme stress, but the reality is that sometimes we don't. Maybe she wasn't keeping perfect attention on him before the shooting, maybe she was - we just don't know based on the comments because we don't know exactly where everyone was in relationship to each other, park equipment, the shooters, etc., etc.
Regardless, the ONLY person(s) to blame for this are those that did the shooting. I feel badly for the family of this innocent 4 year old child that was killed.
My thought exactly; Why the hell is a 4 year old outside at that hour????
Another senseless death by people who could care less how many innocent bystanders get caught in their gunfire.
And trying to enforce additional/harsher gun laws won't make a difference, because criminals don't abide by the law. If they did, they wouldn't be out killing innocent people just because they're pissed at another person. Doesn't anyone use their fists anymore???
Hey thepunisher, just heard on the news here that the courthouse is under lockdown, and the local and state police are looking for a murder suspect. there are officers outside the courthouse with rifles right now. Its 1024 am. Earlier a state trooper stopped a car next to my house. after he got done with the car and sent it on its way, he went around to his trunk got out his shotgun and put it inside the vehicle. I thought that was odd. now i know why. still dont have much information. BUT in reference to why is the kid outside. well maybe there was nothing going on, no danger. so i could understand. also there is a reference that after the guns were fired the mother could not see her 4 year old, so she was watching the kid. sad thats all. Oh BTW, i have my kids in the house and they will not be going out until they catch whoever it is. Sumptins up. I live in the middle of nowhere, as i nearly fell off the earth once, but maybe we are catching up to colorado and new york. Hope not.
Hey since the police know who the gangmembers are, maybe, just maybe, they could outlaw gangs as terrorist organizations. Guantanimo and hell aint half full. nah forget that, most gangs are blacks, mexicans, puerto ricans, etc. I can hear the libs now, screaming about racial profiling, and racists laws.
Well maybe at some point in time they will get over being labled a snitch is a bad thing. and you never know they might get tired of their kids being murdered.
What they need is some really old guy or girl, to start taking pot shots from the inside of a third floor window at the gangs on the street corners selling drugs. Teach them about the working end of a gun. May not get rid of em but should run em somewhere else. Hey maybe the gangs would get the idea that the population is tired of their block wars and become productive citizens.
the whole thing is just sad. My condolences to the family.
Since all of your want to blame parents instead of the shooter. I would like to know why Elizabeth Smart and the others were taken out of their homes with both parents inside. Must be bad parenting if they didn't have bars on the windows and many locks on the doors.
Get off the parents people. 9:30 is not late. And, a baby asleep in the arms of the parent is not wrong either. At least the parent was there, holding onto their child.
To ask all the holier than thou people here, should we lock our children up in a steel room with no windows so maybe, just maybe, they might be safe.
And to poster who have his children up by 5:30 in the morning. Why, sounds like bad parenting to me.
When my kids were in little league, their games sometime lasted until after 11:00 pm. Just to put things in prospective. This child was in the park with his parents (where about 100 people were in attendance) for a basketball game and a barbecue.
You people make me sick. Worry about your own children and stop trying to parent everyone else's. I am sure there are plenty of things that you do that other parents will question.
Read more: #ixzz21T4yeQMx
Projects, gangster rap killin, this is normal for them. How about you cut the welfare and housing benefits, if, they get caught gang banging.
TFNJ: the BIG difference between these two incidents is the 6 month old was WITH A PARENT in a setting most people would consider safe. The four year old was out by himself on the playground and his mother didn't bother to look to see where he was till she heard gunshots and then, it's too late.
Most people don't expect there to be actual gunfire in a movie theatre no matter what time of day or night, a playground in the middle of NYC (where the criminals abound and they ALL have guns) is a WAY different matter. All the gun laws in the world won't stop the people who don't abide by the laws, which is why NYC and Chicago (which have the most strict gun laws in the country) are such hotbeds of gun related incidents. The outlaws JUST DON'T F-ING CARE ABOUT THE GUN LAWS!! GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, MORON!!! Having a child of that age out at night, in an area where drugs and thugs are rampant, even WITH your knowledge, is negligent. PERIOD!!
B/c day care opens at 6am. You know, that place where working parents take their children to spend the day so that working parents can work.
Working parents now have *bad parenting* skills? Here I thought it was just the ones who didn't work who got that label slapped on them.
9:40pm isn't *late* for a 4 yo to be out, but arising at 5:30am is *too early* & therefore some form of child abuse?
[shakes head in incomprehension]
usagi-sensei , Doesn't Sensei mean teacher? Parents take small child to a neighborhood BBQ where 2 scum bag thugs start shooting. Let's see poor kid probably slept all day because it was to hot to do anything else and this was an opportunity to run and play as 4 yr olds love to do. How is it the parents bad the two Aholes had so little self respect or self worth that they had to get out their guns? They weren't either one real shooters as neither of them was shot. They proved their manhood by murdering a 4 yr old. Read, child was with Parents. Lost in the chaos when shooting erupted. Stop the HATE.
Mayor Bloomberg is right and he's trying to make a difference. The rich NRA and the trash that support them need to be stopped. The trailer parks and ghettos continue to thrive and rural America is suffering from random shootings. Make drugs hard to get, consumption suffers. Take away guns or making them hard to get will result in less shootings. Within a few days, the Colorado shooting, a copy shoots his son Upstate, NY and now this...... there will always be the clowns who refuse to connect the dots and realize that we don't need guns. If I feel threatened and I can call 911, I'll do it. This American will not have a gun in my house. To hell with the 2nd amendment and the rich lobbyists for the NRA. Our society is more important. No more senseless loss of lives due to stupid people who shouldn't have guns or the NRA getting rich off them. If you want a gun, join the military and go overseas to protect our country. We talk so much about terrorists but we've got our own here killing our own.
911? when seconds matter the police are just minutes away.
Move to the country. If you choose to live in the city then you are idiots to leave your appartments when there are guns. If I were you I would stay home. You will never take my guns away from me. I am way to smart to let that happen. The only way you will take my guns from me is to steal them. Too bad you are scared of them. My freedom is more important than your fear.
ThinkWise " To hell with the 2nd amendment and the rich lobbyists for the NRA. Our society is more important."
The preservation of our society is exactly why the 2nd Amendment was included in the Constitution. Those wise gentlemen who put it together realized that a disarmed populace was a populace of slaves subject to the whims of the government who does have arms. Please review the gun control laws in place in so many other countries, such as Germany and Poland, and see what gun control and registration did for them --- "Resistance is Futile, we have the guns and you don't", said the powers that be.
And while you are at it, check out the (non) Gun Control laws in Switzerland - every citizen serving in the military is issued a weapon that they are required to keep in their home. Switzerland, armed to the teeth with military grade weapons, has one of the lowest death-by-gun rates in the world. It is not the guns that are the problem, it is the people with them. In this case, and in Colorado, and Columbine and in so many other instances, they are in the possession of someone who probably had to obtain them illegally. And anyone who wants one bad enough can probably get one, just like they can get drugs.
The police chief in Aurora, CO even commented that if it had not been guns, it would have been something else there - since that nutcase had his apartment boobie-trapped with explosives. So when gun control becomes 100% effective (Bloomberg is an idiot for thinking it will ever happen) what do we do next, move on to "bomb control", or perhaps "knife control", or "baseball bat control"??
I've done my time in the military. There is no reason for law abiding citizens to have their second amendment rights taken away. I agree with you, HATR. Think Wise, you need to think harder. There are multiple millions of firearms already out there in the USA. Just how do you figure you will round them up??? Guess who will be left with firearms- not the responsible law abiding citizens. The problem goes way beyond confiscation.
My freedom is more important than your fear.
If you choose to live in the city then you are idiots to leave your appartments when there are guns.
sounds like fear is the reason you have a gun.
"The rich NRA and the trash that support them need to be stopped."
That's right, because all the thugs and criminals are NRA members. Gosh you are a genius.
"To hell with the 2nd amendment"
Yes, let's just burn the constitution too. Who needs all those pesky rights. Let's start with your 1st.
Do you think you are wise?I guess you would just stand by and let a killer kill you family or some one close to while you tried to call 911.When law abiding people can't have guns then thugs ,killers and evil people will be the ones with guns. You will never get rid of guns. Use your brain to think before you critisize!
Don't you mean, that your fear is more important than other people's freedom? Your the one that thinks you a gum will make you "safer".
The NRA has talked much or our nation into believing that more and bigger guns for all is a good thing. Some how, it just hasn't worked out that way. The US looks more and more like "Blade Runner". Compare that to someplace like Japan where owning guns is a very hard thing to do. There are about a hand full of shooting incidents per year, Nation wide, and Japan has about half the population of the.
So, OK keep the second amendment. I still don't think that we need semi-automatic weapons. And many of the guns that the "thugs" have are stolen from people who have bought them legally. Most of the rest I believe were bought "legally" by the thugs or the Loonies.
Back in the day, when gun mostly enthusiasts bought guns, things seemed a bit more balanced. Now this newer, hysterical modern gun culture in which guns are flooding our communities, bad things are happening. Some people shouldn't drive. Some people shouldn't have kids. some people shouldn't drink, and here it is, some people should not own guns.
Looks to me like the NRA has created a market based on "fear", and that fear is perpetuated by a whole new breed of gun lovers, who really believe that every hot head with a gun is creating a safe situation. Sorry, but I don't get it. And no, I don't feel safer when going into a movie, or bar, or play-ground knowing that many of my fellow citizens are packing. Mistakes happen. Remember Trayvon Marten? Remember the police officer that shot his own son? Even if you can positively identify the shooter, you have situations like this one where someone gets hit in the cross fire.
Too many people have guns, and it is very scary. But this situation was created buy the NRA and the gun manufactures that they lobby for. These companies are profiting from our fear. and they are also the root of the problems in Mexico and now even Canada. Both countries had tougher laws on guns than we do, but our lax system makes it easy to buy in the US and take them across the border. Go USA!
Ditto for NYC. If you can buy guns in other parts of the country legally, and if the NRA is fighting tooth and nail to open up new markets, then yeah, guns will come into the city, no matter what the law is.
I think that the comparison between cars accidents and gun deaths is kind of silly, but OK let's have a go.
It is easier to legally carry a gun, than it is to get a diver's permit. So, why the NRA is so against over-sight and accountability. The only reason that I can come up with, is that they can make more money if there are no rules. Sadly, too many gun lovers have bought into this, and are being used as sorry to say it "tools".
Think about it.
Here we go again. the bad nra. If all guns were outlawed then there would be a massive market for gun running. the gangs would still have their guns. they are not smart enough to make them but they are rich enough to buy them outside the US and transport them in.
We have some of the toughest DRUG laws in the world. Now thats really stopped the marijuana, meth, crack, heroin, and all the designer drugs from flowing into the US.
NRA aint the problem. Gangs who care little about life or the law do.
Also in the past there were numerous countries that still do have gun laws that state nobody but cops and the government can have guns. CHINA, NORTH KOREA, CAMBODIA UNDER POL POT, HITLER, MUSSOLINI. Get the picture. Guns aint the problem. Gangs are.
Now otoh, i would have no problems with persons who have been in prison for violent crime, or people who are mentally ill and dangerous to themselves or someone else not being allowed to own guns. But again, It is illegal to have inside information from the company CEO and then make a trade that makes you big bucks. The law dont stop that. They just keep on doing it. Its illegal to cook the books, talk to lay, whoops, he died. You get the idea. you can make any law you want. The only people that will obey the law are of course law abiding citizens. The idiots killing all the kids are not law abiding, they could care less.
Whats funny is that the gang members do their thing on the street and everybody fears them. When you pick one up and you got him dead to rights, for say a shooting, they start crying and calling for their mama's. Bunch laughable spineless idiots. Moron this later.
Not everyone in this country lives in a city where humans are the top of the food chain...For example..I live in Alaska. Take my guns away from me...OVER MY DEAD BODY!!! There is a huge safety issue with the thought of going anywhere into the wilds without one. I am a law abiding citizen and a former Marine. I fought for your rights as well as mine. I will hold my right to bear arms no matter what and taking that right away won't make anyone safer no matter where you live. Especially when you look at how many guns are already out in criminals/bangers hands.
Bloomberg is NOT right. Bloomberg, due to his limitations can never be right. He is the Napoleon of our day. A balding, immoral short man with deeply rooted prejudices is never right. Not even by chance.
Bloomberg is a current day gangster masked by his wealth from the old days when five bucks bought every politician and judge in sight.
This nation is the worse for having this mutant being involved in politics of any sort.
First of all, the government isn't going to come and take away the things you NRA nuts hold dear. Not your guns, god nor gold.
Second, look at the times the 2nd amendment was written. Flint locks ruled the day.
Third, the first amendment is freedom of speech. Yet there are limits to that freedom. You can't yell fire in a crowded place and you can't joke about bombs at the airport. likewise, the second amendment has restrictions. You can't own a nuclear bomb or an F14 fighter plane for example.
So what is so wrong with putting assault weapons on that list with missile launchers and battle tanks etc? Assault weapons with huge magazines are good for one thing, killing many people very quickly.
Handguns are getting out of control. Many in circulation are from pawn shops, second hand stores garage sales, gun show parking lot, craigs list etc as well as all the high profile sporting goods stores.
Handguns cannot be taken away from the people and I'm not so sure it should be. But we can have a national buy your gun program like many cities do. I think it was Tacoma Washington that got thousands of hand guns off the street in one year alone.
Ahhh, more gun violence. So sick of it. Let's arm everyone, right? Perfect solution.
So you want to follow the Switzerland model.............interesting.
What, you get shot at every day when you walk out that door? or are you just pulling that from your arse?
Well, I know I can, along with many others in the backwoods of fly-over country, that can and will make small projectile motivators if nesseccary.
It just goes to show that you should NEVER allow four year olds to play in the playground unarmed.
Sorry but four year old dying is not a joking matter. Certain subjects are not amusing. Unless of course you can spare a four year old in your own family, Leroy. We will all join in and mock the death.
But it's okay to mock the thirteen people killed last night in the truck crash, with the sarcastic "Let's ban pickup trucks, no one should be allowed to drive a car that can hold that many people" or "Blame the inanimate object, not the people." As long as it supports the NRA's agenda, its allowed.
dave, maybe we SHOULD ban pickups that hold that many people, IF we can find any that are actually designed to hold that many people. this was a ford f 250 which isn't designed to hold more than 6 or 7 people but had 23 in it.
I'm failing to see your point Hatr, might be due to not enough coffee on my part.
leroy brown
It just goes to show that politics are more important to people like you, when people like you can take a death and turn it into a political statement.
political statement? isnt that what this rally is for?
my point was whoever you quoted as saying "Let's ban pickup trucks, no one should be allowed to drive a car that can hold that many people" was an idiot since this truck wasn't desigened to hold that many people. hell, the number of people in the truck may have contributed to the flat tire that caused the wreck cause of the extra weight.
Look at these people trying to take the moral high ground.. Seriously? "when people like you can take a death and turn it into a political statement." is the dumbest thing i've ever read..
When a 4 year old kid dies from something preventable.. you can and SHOULD make a political statement... If a 4 year old falls down a sewer drain and dies... you should look to make sure the city keeps covers on their sewer drains.. when a 4 year old kids killed by random gunfire... you should see why there's so many guns in America, kids playing in the park are getting shot by random bullets... When someone dies in a way that is preventable.. you need to find out how to prevent it from happening to more kids... not just talk about how tragic it was.... morons.
It makes you wonder, the odds of getting hit by a stray bullet are so astronomical that you may think it was just his time to leave this world, as sad and wasteful as it is. How do you explain things like this other than bad luck, divine intervention, fate, etc....
I'll skip the magical thinking, and stick with the statistical fact that in the US we have about 9,500 gun deaths/yr, and Germany has about 200. And the most powerful lobby in US politics, the NRA, is devoted to free access to weapons of war, usually justified by flagrant paranoid delusions and rampant misanthropy.
Also blame the "urban" thinking that goes along with shooting. Look at Chicago for instance. Gang violence etc. Bullets flying around. It was not the boy's time to go!
(@ Tim H ; actually, I'm pretty sure the most powerful lobbies in this country are pharmacalogical companies... NRA comes after a few of those....)
And let's not forget, banning guns will do very little to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals - these guys ALREaDY own their guns illegally. Limiting gun ownership may have prevented the Aurora shooting, but would've done nothing to save this poor child.
@Jenn S - If by your own argument, restrictions on gun ownership would have prevented the Aurora shooting (the reasoning of which I'm not arguing true or false), that wouldnt be enough for you to support limiting gun ownership? Even if it would save the lives of even just 12 innocent individuals?
The Aurora shooting would've still happened... just with illegal guns.
smeado, probably not as the shooter had no criminal background except for a speeding ticket and probably wouldn't know where to get the guns.
If he couldn't get any guns, he would have just blown up the theater! MORONS!
Trigger Locks, Seatbelts, Fluoridated Water and Other Communist Plots
NYC - strictest gun laws in the nation where citizens cannot have a gun by law! And yet, the criminals carry and use! How's that law working out for your liberals?
Better than permissive laws work in idiot cracker states like mine where the gun death rate is usually 2-3 times New York State's. Much better in Germany, where the gun-death rate is almost twenty-times less when the laws are entirely rational and not continuously frustrated by paranoid death-worshippers like the NRA and trolls like you.
Tim,
My delusional friend...if you think gun crime is high in your area, try living in the Bronx or Brooklyn, NY where gun deaths are a daily occurance. The Bronx is not called "Fort Apache" for no reason, dumbazz!!!
Tim- move to Germany.
@Tim H - Rallyforge wrote "NYC", which means New York City. You cited (I use that term loosely) "New York State". There's a big difference between New York City and the rest of the state. They're practically different planets. If you're going to do an apples-to-apples comparison, compare your specific city with New York City.
"Much better in Germany"
Then move there if it's so much better. You are like the idiots that got free school lunches and then complains about it.
I mean.. that's an ignorant argument after this Colorado shooting... Colorado.. one of the least strict states in terms of gun control laws vs New York with one of the most strict... Go on.. compare the two incidents. And owning a gun in NYC isn't illegal.. so don't lie either.
Legalize marijuana and make gun control stricter with harsher penalties...the wrong people are filling up prisons, and the government will make a crap load of revenue to pay down this outrageous deficit. To those who keep defending the NRA and 2nd Ammendment, you need to acknowledge it's not about these extreme cases or mass killings, it's about the murders (and injuries) taking place every single day...so is your gun hanging in the back of your pickup or dresser draw more important than 9500 people KILLED each year in this country (not including how many are injured)? We have the highest murder rate of all civilized countries, see the statistics in the link I've attached below, then tell those families and survivors their lives don't matter but your rights do...
#!/photo.php?
fbid=506296326052231&set=a.214517761896757.71416.212374612111072&type=1&theater
Will all the criminals turn in their weapons? You can guarantee that? Of course not. I'm keeping my gun, and from now on, I'm taking it with me when I go to the movies.
Criminals, murderers, rapists, thieves and gangs will ALWAYS have guns, so why deprive law abiding citizens the right to keep a gun and defend theirselves if someone who is armed breaks into their house? Once it happens to you I think you'll wish you had a gun in the house!
Liberals are more responsible for the high murder rate than the NRA is. They refuse to face the facts on gun violence. Around 95% of all murders are committed by Blacks, Hispanics and people with a criminal record. I'm not indicting all Blacks and Hispanics. The ones responsible for the high murder rate are a very small percentage of Blacks and Hispanics, but facts are facts. To control a problem, you have to first identify the cause of the problem. The cause of the high murder rate isn't the 80 million legal, law abiding gun owners, it's the gang members and criminals. Passing more laws will not stop the problem.
Before anyone brings up that James Holmes is White, so what. He falls into that other 5% or so of murderers. We need to stop that too. There might be 40-50 people that are mass murdered like the Colorado shooting in a year. Where should the emphasis be if you want to drop the murder rate drastically?
There's only one way to stop these gang members and criminals from committing murders. And that's with aggressive police tactics that will end up infringing on some innocent peoples constitutional rights. In the early 1990's, the LA police department went after the gangs, specifically the Bloods and the Crips. They were raiding, locking up and taking away guns from the gangs. Crime dropped dramatically. Then the ACLU and the liberals stepped in and started crying racism. The police backed down. The liberal do-gooders brokered a cease fire between the gangs, thinking that's all it would take. It worked for a short time and crime rose again.
People have to make a decision. They can choose a high murder rate with innocent kids being killed or they can cooperate with the police and also leave themselves open to MAYBE being being hassled by the police while they root out the criminals. I know what I would choose if I lived in a high crime area.
The liberals don't like that though. They would rather see ineffective laws passed for everybody. They would like to see raids and aggressive police tactics in lily white mayonnaise eating suburbs, just to stick it to the White people too so they know what it feels like, even though it would do nothing to reduce violent crime. Just like the TSA treating everyone like a terrorist instead of profiling which is a proven method.
Law Enforcement has data bases on street gangs and of course on anyone with a criminal record. That's who they need to go after. You get convicted of a violent crime or you're a member of a violent gang, you should lose some of your constitutional rights.
Are we going to put the colors at half mast for him? Where does it stop!
Another tragedy no doubt however...4 year olds should be in bed by that time, and if not in bed definitely in their jammies getting ready for bed not out on a playground
I personally know a man whose 15 year old son was killed in his bedroom at about 10 at night about three years ago by a stray bullet. He was doing his homework. He was a college-bound student in an Atlanta home doing the right thing with a loving family. That was one of the 9500 gun deaths/yr that happen in this country, about 9100 more than should, that we all suffer so thanatophoric paranoid crackers can order 6000 rounds and 100-round clips on the Internet.
A lot of those numbers are gang members, druggies, crooks, and the slime of humanity. So what?
Tim, good point. A few years ago in my city, the same happened to a teen here. She was getting really to go to a prom and was dressing in her bedroom and a stray bullet found her. My sister's best friend was asleep in her bed with her husband when a stray bullet killed her.
Kim, NY news say they were at the playground with a 100 other people to watch a basketball game and to participate in a BBQ. Not that any reason is really any of your business.
kim-720188
too bad obese white trash scum like you never leave their roach infested trailers.. because someone shooting you would be no tragedy
primenumbers banned, death wishing and personal attacks everywhere. No, thank you.
ban all guns from civilians. if you wanna hunt use a bow and arrow. let every house hold own one gun for the protection of family and home. if you are a civilian and you are caught with a firearm outside of your home you will be sent to prison for the rest of your life. there, i said it...
Better yet....let's execute ALL who are caught with a gun right on the spot. No trial, no jury....bullet to the back of the head. I'd be all for that. Then I would agree about laws preventing people from owning guns because then i know criminals will be executed too.
Mike, ban guns from civilians? Yes that makes perfect sense. Lets take away guns from law abiding people so the criminals are the only ones that have them. I think you are an idiot. Oh and by the way, I am a law abiding person, I own guns. I have been around them my whole entire life. Not once have I ever tried to kill a person with one, never even thought about killing someone. Heck, I know tons of people, not a single one of them have ever tried or thought of killing someone either.
Mike you are most certainley an idiot. If we take fire arms from the law abiding citizens then we will be sitting ducks.
Use your head the only way that these criminal's are going to listen is when the citizens in the neighborhood make it so uncomfortable for them that they leave.
How are you going to do that you ask? Well for one people have to get off their frightened Iphone distracted arhrses and participate. Hound your local city council,police chief, Governor,etc. set up neighborhood watches and REPORT criminal activity. Make sure that street lights are working . KEEP YOUR POURCHLIGHTS ON. PUT UP SIGNS THAT STATE: GANG-FREE,GUN FREE AREA. THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH AREA.
The NRA perspective: We need more guns! Then more guns after that. If we start arming the 4 year-olds, this might be prevented in the future.
Can you gun loving morons see what your selfish demands are doing to society? Support SENSIBLE gun control;s now and help save the lives of our children.
Pretty sure a law abiding gun owner didn't shoot that kid. Million dollar bet???
I hear this same idiotic comment over and over. But guess what! Plenty of children of "law abiding gun owners" die every year by playing with guns. Guess what! People's houses get robbed and guns are stolen. Guess what! "Law abiding gun owners" have relatives or teenagers who aren't so law abiding.
You people, like all conservatives just don't get cause and effect.
Get rid of guns=no more shooting. No more dead children.
LOL!!! I would bet my life savings that if all guns were removed from the planet, it would not put an end to people killing each other. Those bent on ending other peoples lives would resort to bows and arrows, knives, car bombs, ect. Hey man, it's people who kill each other!!! Wake up America!!!
@mj - And you're going to get the many, many illegal weapons already out on the streets away from criminals how exactly? Guns don't just disintegrate after a few months.
@Valid,
Please define sensible gun laws. How can we make gun laws more effective? The guy in Aurora had a legal right to purchase the guns he had...hell he had no record. Let's stop the pretension of calling it "gun control" laws and call a spade a spade....an outright gun ban.
Sensible gun laws mean no assault weapons, large capacity magazines, steel-jacket bullets, etc. We have screwed up the US by allowing these as long as we have, and we should start immediately to rmeove them, one by one. Sure, people will find other ways to kill each other, but these sensible limitations would prevent many of the large scale massacres. But you gun lovers will never sit still for any sort of limits, since all you can think about is yourself.
Chuckzul, first think about what you're saying before putting it out on the internet you big dope. When your house gets invaded by 3 guys at 2:30 in the morning and all you have to defend yourself with is your farkin' pillow you'd change your mind quickly my friend. Bans don't mean jack to criminals and crankheads. The nonsense you have spewed only shows that you are just a future victim. Have fun with your pillow.
And to the man who lost his son, I'm so sorry for your loss but your child not have been outside at that hour in what apparently is the ghetto.
Bad as Baghdad,Bad to the BONE!
no one is gonna mention trayvon martin?
You just did. Congratulations.
4 years old and out at 9:30 on a playground. Ahhh....parenting. Remember when there was such a thing.
Amen!!! I'm only 46 years old and have 2 children and feel as if I came from a different planet when I see the lack of parenting skills of alot of people around me!!
Parenting skills is such a relative term. But I guess being ethnocentric makes you feel almighty doesn't it?
phazerman. Yes, I remember when parenting was such a thing. In the summer time out under the stars, listening to the night sounds, listening to the soft voices from the house. Ever smell the fields on a warm summer night (no school the next day)?
The only difference is that everyone one didn't have a gun and the night was safe. Parents are doing a good job now. Things are different. If a person is going to shoot at a crowd. it can be anywhere anyplace. Cannot live your life by fear. Children died all the time on the farm for many reasons.
Shawn, perhaps I would not agree with your parenting skill. It is your choice not mine and certainly not yours to condemn another parent. Shame
Condolences to the family and friends of this little boy.
Sad Sad story. Yet it will be repeated again and again until people start turning information over to authorities instead of trying to get revenge themselves.
Cowboy, no one is trying to get revenge. My goodness you all are silly. If you go to the authorities and someone can figure out you were the one that spilled the beans, they will come after you. Now unless people are going to be relocated with the police covering the COST, there is no way you feel safe doing this for fear of retaliation. Get a clue, get a brain, get a life.
This is so sad!! Shouldn't a 4 year old be in bed at 9:30 at night or at least indoors and not out among the gangstas? The situation surrounding this child's death death was totally avoidable had the child's caregivers been acting in the child's best interests. This is very similar to the death of the 6 year old girl at the Colorado movie theater. Once again why was a 6 year old child at a midnight showing of a violent movie like Batman?
Shawn to answer your question of why. To be with the parent(s), not left with someone else. Enjoying a memory until a man with a gun decided only his life was important at that moment. No one else is to blame.
Batman is no more violent than anything else out there today. Including prime time tv.
You know, you all are such hypocrits!!!!! In the South where I reside, I see WHITE families out past midnight at softball and baseball games, country music concerts in the park, etc ALL SUMMER LONG!! And you know what, it is perfectly okay! These children are with their parents and it is the summer vacation. Perhaps you all live in colder climates where no one has anything to do in your asphalt jungles? Since when is 9:30 late?!?! Down here in the country, that is not late and there is so much more for kids to do --swimming in fishing holes, family concerts in the park, ball games, jazz festivals in open fields, etc. And also, did you guys ask that same question about the young kids and teens that were out after MIDNIGHT at the batman showing?????? Did you question why the 6 year old child that was killed was out so late? Perhaps not because you can't, seeing as though many teens and kids were out with their parents and most were white--and you find no fault when you do something. You all are immediately calling these idiots thugs, AND YOU SHOULD, but over on other sections of this site, you all are implying that the Joker was "mentally ill", "perhaps he didn't have a father", "maybe he was molested as a child", "did his mother hug him enough", "was he lonely", blah, blah, blah, blah...and all of these questions for the Joker could also be asked of an inner city youth that kills. These monsters were THUGS, and so was the Joker--but seems that only blacks that kill are thugs, and when white men kill---"they are pitiful head cases that weren't hugged enough." Oh good hell...........
MasonandDixon,
I stand corrected. You make some very good points. I think I allowed my emotions to take over and did a little to much judging. Thank you for pointing out a few things to me:)
This is why I'm for the death penilty. When idiots shoot themselves...fine. But when the innocent are killed...especially the young...there's no excuse. How many lives must a person take before they forfeit their own?
AHMEN!!!
I agree oxman, except you forgot the shooter was probably from a broken home, dad beat the tar outa him, mamma was a drunk, never got enough to eat, was abused by uncle jimmy, etc etc etc.
thomas are you talking about the NY shooting or the Colorado shooting. One you may be right but the other you are wrong.
no one is gonna mention trayvon martin?
No. You already did.
Go away troll! I'm proud that the people of newsvine didn't take your bait.
Why?
Trayvon the Thug deserved to die.. this kid didnt he was innocent..
I don't mean to mix topics / situations but just a point on gun control -- you have idiots like George Zimmerman riding around playing Law and Order (cop and jury) shooting an unarmed person, then say it was God's decision and that didn't regret anything that night and would do it all over again
Your point is what exactly?
Actually, Thank, Tonesmom8 made her point. And it is appreciated.
Trayvon attack Zimmerman he didn't have to. he could of just ran off instead he attacked him and now the fool is dead.. i would expect some one to do the same to me if I attcked them
A rally ?.....that's the answer right there.....you idiots, the answer is for people to rise up, vote the people in who want to get the HUGE number of guns off the street....the NRA is outta control....some of these automatic pistols are like cannons.....the jail term for carrying an unlicensed weapon should be a flat 5 years....if you shoot somebody with it, 10 more......
A rally ?.....give me a break
Gang thugs don't follow the gun laws!!! It's the bad people making bad choices, when will people accept that a gun is not a decision making device???? The person holding it is!!! Hold the people that did this responsible. Only way to get the HUGE number of guns off the street is to remove the thugs from the street. Vote the people in that will do just that!! It's no gun's fault if an outlaw uses it to commit a crime... Oh, the NRA shot this little boy? Really.... NRA is just against crime as we are. Not their fault a weapon ends up in the hands of a felon or soon to be felon.
When my son was little (3 or so) he started getting into guns etc. I was very uncomfortable with it until I overheard him (at 3 mind you!) tell his teacher who was claiming that guns are bad tha "Guns aren't bad - they are just metal. PEOPLE are bad."
If my 3 year old can see that, why can't all these people screaming for gun abolition see it?
Please tell us why ordinary citizens need AK7's and 100 round clips?
The single biggest threat to the NRA and honest gun owners are the criminal misuse of firearms and liberal illogic. Until we find a humane way to detect, institutionalize and treat the criminally insane, within the framework of the Constitution, we will suffer. Until we hunt down, arrest and imprison criminals (and keep them there) we will suffer. The solution seems beyond our reach. While our overseers flop around, like beached carp, all we can do is arm up and take care.
bobr50,
Why? because those who kill innocents have them. Man is born with a right to self defense and he deserves armed pairity with killers.
That's why.
That's an ignorant and NRA-ordered reply. "Man is born with a right to self-defense." Which amendment to the Constitution says that? When everyone has a gun, deadly crossfires are pretty much guaranteed. Just ask the ghost of Lloyd Morgan. Back in "West Side Story" days, when rival gangs fought it out with knives and brass knuckles, the newspaper stories didn't include the deaths of innocent bystanders - including small children who "just happen" to get in the way of a stray bullet. More guns does not lead to "self-defense"; more guns lead to more death. Period.
In the Bizarro Dimension of the NRA, "self-defense" means that if a guy punches you in the nose over an argument, he deserves to be shot to death. Ask the ghost of Trayvon Martin.
Double AMEN, Just like the two idiots who thought the internet cafe would be easy. That is until Gramps came around the corner. He could use some practice though... now we have to feed them even longer....
Just in case you couldnt tell.... My response was in regards to gila ll ..... not to jockmama who doesnt have a clue about gun control. Just another sheep who will be begging for his/her life someday.
How many innocent victims do you suppose were saved in the cafe?????? jockmama would be the one under the table..
Rest in Peace little man.
As far as the savages responsible for this - ROT IN HELL.