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Subscribe to RSSLegal expert Linda Kenney Baden and psychiatrist Dr. Gail Saltz discuss suspected gunman James Holmes' bizarre court appearance and what his possible mental instability means to the efforts to try him in court.
ANALYSIS
While relatives of the victims of last week’s movie theater massacre in Aurora, Colo. – and the public at large – are understandably fixated on why the crime was committed, the criminal justice system to a large extent will ignore that question in determining guilt and punishment.
It appears that the alleged shooter, 24-year-old James Eagan Holmes, acted alone, so there apparently is no conspiracy or anyone else directly to blame. Nor is there any indication that this was the act of a terrorist organization or individual attempting to advance a political agenda of some sort. The crime allegedly was committed by a single human being who explained himself to police as being a character from the Batman comics – the Joker.
Theater massacre suspect appears in court
But in deciding whether a person should be punished – and how much – the law will inquire into a very limited set of questions.
The first is guilt. With a multitude of witnesses inside the theater able to testify about the black body armor worn by the gunman and Holmes arrested just outside the theater moments afterward wearing an identical ensemble, defense attorneys appear to have little chance of persuading a jury that their client did not pull the triggers of the weapons – all of which he had legally purchased – used in the crime. And the fact that he apparently booby-trapped his apartment immediately before the slaughter, with the apparent intent of creating a diversion, only adds to the evidence against him.
Wes Oliver is a professor at Widener University who teaches criminal law and procedure. This fall he will join the faculty of the Duquesne University School of Law as a professor and director of the school's criminal justice program.If Holmes is convicted in connection with the crime, an insanity defense will almost certainly be contemplated. But the legal question raised by an insanity defense is relatively straightforward: Did the defendant understand the difference between right and wrong?
Past aids Aurora response, but were warnings unheeded?
John Hinckley, Jr., escaped criminal punishment when he attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan to impress the actress Jodie Foster, but in the wake of his successful insanity defense, legislatures made it considerably more difficult for defendants to prevail on the grounds of mental incapacity. Under the law that existed at the time, defendants were not legally responsible even if they knew an action was wrong if they could show they were unable to resist the impulse to commit the act. After Hinckley's case, a number of states, including Colorado, amended their laws to permit a successful insanity defense only if the defendant did not know the difference between right and wrong. The upshot of this more stringent requirement is that defendants rarely prevail when they claim insanity.
James Holmes, the suspected gunman in the tragic Aurora movie theatre massacre was seen nodding off, glaring and staring blankly at a court hearing, leading many to speculate about an insanity defense. NBC's Kate Snow reports.
So, if Holmes’ attorneys pursue an insanity defense, the jury will be asked only one question: Did he know it was wrong to try to take the lives of scores of people? If the answer to that question is ‘yes,’ then the question becomes: What degree of homicide did he commit. To determine this, the jurors must decide whether he intentionally and deliberately killed his victims – first-degree murder – or whether he merely knowingly or recklessly killed them – second-degree murder. The degree of planning involved in this case, however, leaves no doubt that the perpetrator intended the results.
Photos: Shooting at Batman screening in Colo.
Best friends Allie Young and Stephanie Davies, survivors of the Aurora, Colo. movie theater shooting and whose courageous story was mentioned by President Obama, tell their story of meeting him at the hospital.
There will then be a final question about punishment. Colorado has the death penalty, though death sentences are quite rare in the state and there has only been one execution in 30 years. Nevertheless, there is the possibility of a death sentence in this case. Under Colorado law a jury may return a death sentence if the defendant killed more than one human being in a single episode. Almost certainly he did.
In a capital case – and it seems likely this will be a capital case – the defense is permitted to present anything in mitigation. That means that the defense may attempt to explain why the defendant attempted to take the lives of scores of innocent persons, but it is certainly not required to do so. It can focus on any aspect of his life in an effort to save it. And the prosecution only has to demonstrate that the mass killing occurred to obtain a death sentence. Nothing requires either side to present evidence of what motivated this man before incarcerating him or even executing him.
Read more legal analysis by Wes Oliver
We often think of natural disasters as tragedies that defy explanation. Tragedies caused by humans can most often be explained, though, and the criminal justice process often provides that explanation. Motives are often offered to demonstrate a defendant's intent to kill.
In the case of James Holmes, it seems likely that circumstantial evidence alone will demonstrate his desire to take an extraordinary number of innocent lives, and that his motives will defy any traditional explanation, such as personal animosity or greed. But the law does not require prosecutors to show motive, merely the intent to kill. And that may be all that anyone will be able to show for this senseless act.
As a result, any trial is likely to leave victims, and their families, with nearly as many unanswered questions as they have now.
Related content from NBCNews.com:
- Lessons learned aid Aurora response, but were warnings signs unheeded?
- Aurora shootings: 911 dispatcher recalls night of horror
- Lung transplant didn’t come from Colo. victims
- Hero amid the bullets: The power of female friendship
- Shocked Aurora vows, 'We will remember' victims of theater shooting
- Will Colorado shootings suspect James Eagan Holmes ever stand trial?
Leave a Comment:
Typical for NBC to say He acted alone,,,,,,,,,, WHAT ?
It will take WEEKS to go thru the mountains of evidence the police gathered from his apt.
Forensic analysis of the hard drives will take a week alone
motive? what motive. what could drive someone to kill innocent people? its hard enough to pull the trigger in combat. this guy is nothing but a coward that got pissed for what ever reason and decided to kill helpless people. how long before its confirmed that he used his government grant money to buy his weapons. maybe when the government awards grant money they should see where its going! he alsoknew what he was doing why pick a place that posts no weapons allowed!
Insisting upon calling insane people cowards is what causes the government fools to release them to the streets. Locking them away before the kill dozens of people is much more effective than brainfarting coward, coward, coward.
Unless this @!$%# decides to explain himself, which seems highly unlikely based on his actions so far, I doubt we will ever know why he did it. Personally, I really do not care all that much. There is no doubt tat he is guilty and as far as I am concerned not doubt that he was not clinically insane at the time. He deserves a quick trial and, following the inevitable guilty verdict, a quick executions. I certainly hope that for once our legal system puts a stop to all the ridiculous legal maneuvering and endless appeals so that the sentence can be carried out relatively quickly. By relatively quickly I am thinking maybe within five years instead of the usual decade and a half or more that it takes to carry out a death sentence. The victims as well as their families and friends can not truly begin the healing process from this horrible event until all the legal maneuvering is over and the sentence is carried out. These people do not deserve to have their pain prolonged just so some lawyer can run up additional fees on the taxpayers dime trying to delay the inevitable. If ever there was a clear cut case for the death penalty, this is it. With the amount of planning that went into this horrendous attack, there is no doubt that this a first degree murder case with special circumstances warranting the death penalty. With the planning that he did, buying weapons at different locations and amassing large amounts of ammunition from multiple sources, there is no way that anyone will ever convince me that this guy did not know exactly what he was doing and that he was not clinically insane in any sense of the term. I say clinically insane because I feel that for anyone to do what he has done they must be crazy, but there is a difference from being crazy in the sense of departing from anything resembling normal behavior and being clinically insane by the medical and legal definition of insanity.
jeffd i can see brainfarting is something you know about?
He was only 24, I'm sure his apartment wasn't full of that much evidence,
he had no life other than school, no girlfriend, no hiking, no bike riding, no camping etc.,
either his parents didn't teach him about failure or they wouldn't accept it.
How do I know a little about this ? My son is the same age taking the very same classes but, he has a wholesome life behind it..
Motive is irrelevant.
Contrary to popular belief, being a cold hearted killer does not make one insane. It just makes you a killer.
Whether he planned it for months or not, he is clearly insane. I don't believe in the death penalty and think he should spend the rest of his life incarcerated and being studied. Knowing the why part is important in preventing people like him from hurting other people in the future.
Keeping someone in jail for the rest of their life is A WASTE of money. Obviously the death penalty means that what they did is so heinous that they deserve to never be out in society and be put to death. I will never see the rationale of paying to keep someone alive who will NEVER be free in society essentially dead to the world and free society so why not execute them and get it over with.
We do know why - mental illness. The red flags were up. He was withdrawing from PhD program - first his parents should have stepped in, second his adviser, third the graduate school. A little bit of attention to mental health issues would have prevented all of this. Intervention is the key to prevention.
Lusitania; His apartment was loaded to blow. There was plenty of evidence . Also, eye wittness to what he had done. The time it took him to set this all up is enough proof that he planed this whole thing. To walk into the theater wearing street clothes and jar the exit to go gear up and reenter the place with tear gas and start shooting ,shows thinking and planning. He should be put to death. Although I think slowly. Sounds bad? Well, what he did was bad. Maybe stone him,like the olden days.
LouK2k12; Normally I would agree with the study of this guy. And we should study him.But after his should pay for what he has done. Not by living out his full life at the expense of the taxpayers. Send a message that this will not be allowed anymore by anyone.
Sanddune; I realize his apartment was loaded with weapons and explosives and maybe even violent video's and batman collections but motive, I wasn't thinking along those tracks, he was intelligent and busy being a student up until he snapped..
Motive "is" important if we're not as a society willing to curb gun control laws then we have to work on other means. He failed as a student, some part of his life at only 24 was extremely heroin built up rage.
Lusitania -- all of the guns were legally purchased. They were 'controlled.' Gun laws are in place, more laws will make no difference. I know it's cliche' but banning guns means only people that don't care about the laws will have them.
You can't legislate crazy.
Maybe, just maybe, this newest tragedy will let us have a reasonable conversation about gun controll. The constitution gives us each the right to bear arms, but NO civilian needs semi-automatic weapons.
It amazes me when hunters say they need these things. A responsible, trained hunter does not need a semi-automatic - they should take their one clear shot. Let's get these semi-automatics with 100 round clips OUT of the stores, for crying out loud. If this shooter hadn't been able to shoot off 60+ rounds in a few minutes, a lot more people would have survived this.
@Kristil90 GOOD point. Ask the NRA about how many people who hunt purchased AK-47s and you will get a used car salesman's comment
dudeinqueens.... the appeals process associated with capital punishment cases is far more expensive than keeping a prisoner incarcerated for life. Every study done on the subject has shown that.
It's costs the State millions to try death penalty cases and all the subsequent appeals. Life in prison is far cheaper than the death penalty.
In this case though, it would be worth every penny. And I'm mostly against capital punishment.
Kristl90.... I support some gun control, but I believe getting rid of semi-automatic weapons is a pipe dream that will never happen. Banning semi-automatic weapons is not the solution. Banning 100-round clips IS.
No hunter needs a 100-round clip. 100-round clips serve 1 purpose.... killing multiple people at once.
I know there are republican "hunters" out there who will say they need 100-round clip. Fine. Go find me a republican police officer who thinks 100-round clips should be legal. Good luck with that.
Obviously insane.. just like the two boys who in the name of "gothic blackness" killed all those students in Columbine.Violent tv. videos sms texts.and these mostly young people cross over into obsession.fantasy life and fantasy heros.They become pyschotic.And they become terrorists killing in the name of batman.taxi driver,or whatever the latest electronic monster is Give them access to guns and these massacres will continue and increase.And the NRA contributes to this terrorism.People are beginning to call them a terrorist group. See you on newsvine after the next cartoon character murder with VERY real deaths!!Get rid of the guns at least.!!
Guns aren't going away, not in this neck of the woods. For better or worse, they're part of American culture, and the fact is that most gun owners don't kill other people.
Besides, it's clear that many Americans derive their whole sense of identity and personal value from owning a gun. They may not have decent educations, health care, or public infrastructure, but they need the guns. So forget about comprehensive controls.
The issue is that of how to make sure that guns (or ammo) don't fall into the hands of the homicidal minority. This orange-headed creature in Colorado had a clean record, so even a background check wouldn't have kept him from going to the big gun bazaar.
Google "assault rifles for sale," and you might as well be getting ready to order a paperback from Amazon. He probably wouldn't have been nearly as deadly with a knife or a ball bat, but he, like many a thug or career criminal, was able to acquire a whole bunch of guns without even standing in line. That is truly impressive. Freedom in action, one might even say.
Any solutions out there?
@JSinSD,
The reason that we take so long to execute people is quite simple. About 15% of people who get the death penalty are innocent of a capital offense. That compares to about 18% overall who are convicted of serious felonies. Rapid execution is a good way to kill a lot of innocent people. And I would point out that a number of states, such as Texas, have so-called "rapid execution" laws. But their executions are no faster, but because of limitations on new evidence, such as exculpatory DNA evidence that was not available when the person was tried, they execute the highest percentage of innocent men in the country.
I know the media must use "alleged" in describing the killer but it's beginning to piss me off! He's guilty as all hell, everyone knows it, and no one posting uses "alleged"... We can save lots of time, money, energy and anxiety if we just put the SOB in front of a firing squad...
Go ahead libbies... chew on that for a while.
Calling this 'senseless,' is an act of self delusion. I would call it 'tragic', but not senseless. Don't understand, ready to throw a thousand quips and jabs - go back and read through these comments.
Seemingly random acts of violence make a lot of sense in present day America. It just becomes more and more of a tragic failure everyday.
@ Sandune, how should he pay for his crime if not sentenced to death?
It may be time to have a new 'category' created for crimes like this - ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT. If someone kills people and there's ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT they did it and it's clear they knew right from wrong then execute them. They get ONE APPEAL. If it fails then they go directly to the gurney, gallows or chair and the deed is done. It's about justice and common sense. To think the familes of those who died and all those who are wounded physically and psychologically for life will have to "subsidize" the food, clothing, shelter and such of the person who did it is ridiculous. Why did he do it? Any reason provided will not justify the action. He probably did it for the same reasons others like him do such thing... to become famous... and we and our media are all too glad to oblige.
BSTheCLown:
You have presented a valid issue; it may indeed be time for a new category of criminal charges. 'ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT' could be a rational way to bypass all the legal bs that usually surrounds such bizarre cases.
Also, in cases like this one, it seems irrelevant to bother about whether the perpetrator knew right from wrong. Society in general (whatever that is) knows that this type of crime is wrong.
We've come a long way in developing a legal structure which attempts to apply justice fairly, and we still have a long way to go. But along the way, we need to remember that there are crimes which fall outside of the realm of justice. Nothing can atone for the crime committed in Aurora. If it is established that there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that this person committed this crime, then the law should provide for his elimination. (Or should we 'rehabilitate' him, and then send him back into society?)
Along these same lines, if such a catagory was created it should be mandated to all states. I am not in favor of govt. telling everyone what to do, but cases like this there should be NO state that should allow this to be tried differently. Add child molesters and rapists to the mix and I believe there would be adeqaute public support for a new "catagory".
Few cases are as clear-cut as this one. So yes, there should indeed be a new class of capital crimes.
the forensics might not be about his apartment and the crime scene. maybe this guy was trying to send a particular message about the dangers of certain psychotropic drugs -- a unabomber kind of thing. maybe even about the need for funding of myeline degeneration or something. the whole event seems so scripted to trump ordinary expectations
Look at the JetBlo pilot - some decent people actually lose it. The death penalty has to be perfect when applied and it simply can't be.
jet blo pilot didnt commit murder. he flipped the f out and will get help. THIS is WAAAAAAAAAAY beyond flipping out and WHY THE F does it take almost 10 years of BS to kill someone on death row? Unreal
Seriously?
The answer is painfully obvious; the movie goers knew they weren't doing anything wrong, therefore they simply walked through the entrance normally, didn't feel the need to wear bulletproof vests, nor gas masks, nor to hide the fact that they were going to watch a movie, nor to use the exit door to get in (or get weapons in). If he didn't know what he was doing was wrong, why didn't he calmly walk through the entrance with everyone else, with all his gear visible, including his guns and everything else? why didn't he just tell all his friends (whom I assume were not crazy nor criminals) "hey guys I'm going to shoot people in a theater"? Why didn't he just tell the gun store owner what he wanted to use the guns and ammunitions for?
Because he knew very well that he was planning to do something wrong (and "wrong" is a pretty weak word to describe what he did).
Anyway, if you don't know that getting in a theatre (or anywhere else) and shooting a bunch of innocent people is wrong, you are a danger to society and you should be put away.
BSTheClown
" If someone kills people and there's ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT they did it and it's clear they knew right from wrong then execute them. They get ONE APPEAL. If it fails then they go directly to the gurney, gallows or chair and the deed is done."
Yea he did it, but was he coerced, or was some other force compelling him to follow thru with this?
-Anna-
Best argument I've heard yet.
When prosecutors push for a conviction they pound the jury with how quickly the human mind can form intent - it's not necessarily formed over time. Given that, it must also be recognized that the minds of good people can flash in any manner - which doesn't preclude isolation but should not automatically include death as punishment.
He better keep up the "I'm crazy" act real good cause when he gets to prison he's gonna find some truly crazies that will stick him like the pig he is over and over and over.
An inmate just released from the prison there says all the inmates there have it our for this shooter. The newly-released inmate said that the other inmates have said that the minute they get a chance, it's absolutely certain the shooter is not going to make it to trial.
I agree totally. To intentionally take the lives of dozens of innocent people unintentionally- who did nothing to deserve it- deserves swift and certain punishment. There is no doubt he did it. He planned it out meticulously- including the intent to kill or maim police when they entered his apartment. He knew what he was doing, and wanted to make the most of it. The only way to slow down copycats is to show them that the reward for such actions are swift and certain death for them. You want to make a name for yourself? Fine, but you won't live long enough to relish the intention. He and others like him have no place in our society.
Experts will spend months and years searching for the motive for this crime, when it is a plain as day the man is just mentally deranged, which is not to say he's innocent by reason of insanity.
So, by all means study the heck out of the case and the alleged perpetrator. But do not expect to find some hidden, deep motive, other than emotional isolation and anger against the world at large.
Crazy people do crazy things.
"I don't like Mondays" by the Boomtown rats was a song relating to Brenda Ann Spencer, an American serial killer. When asked why she killed she replied, "I don't like Mondays."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer
Not everything humans are/do can be put into a nice little box and labeled.
Amazing song. And your avatar, Marvin is my favorite.
...and I believe that Brenda Ann Spencer is yet incarcerated, having spent what should be the best years of her life viewing the world through iron bars.
I wonder how she likes Monday's now.
It said "it appears he acted alone". Why do you Blame NBC for reporting the news?
His strange behavior in court was most obviously part of his well planned defense. Crazy eyes might land him in an asylum where he will be much safer.
His strange behavior in court was most obviously part of his well planned defense.
I agree. I think that he is preparing to "outsmart" the courts by pretending that he is insane, and his first appearance was just an act. I hope that he lands in a maximum security prison and not in an asylum, where he will be fed and clothed for free for the rest of his life, thanks to taxpayers.
Also remember he is in solitary and on suicide watch. He may also be on enforced medication to keep him from harming himself until he can face justice, so this might account for his disconnected demeanor at the court appearance.
I was thinking the same thing when I was watching the hearing yesterday -- 'is he putting on an act to bolster the insanity defense?'
He looked really dazed and out of it. How much was real and how much was acting?
I also think he was putting on an act. He planned all this way too well to not have known what he was doing.
Well as my wife has said a couple of times in cases where the accused tried the insanity act "people don't realize that malingering is a full time job, you can't let up for a second."
He can act nuts in front of his defense team and in the court room and fool some people, but he will not be able to keep it up 24/7 and the shrinks will catch it. The competency evaluation for the Chuck E Cheese killer, Nathan Dunlap, took 5 months. Dunlap is now sitting on death row.
http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/press_releases/2010/08/24/082410_dunlap_habeas_opinion.pdf
It's more likely that he is on "medication" - they did that to the guy that shot the representative in the House from Arizona. Doubt it is to protect him from killing himself though - maybe someone doesn't want him speaking. I'd wager though that this guy's motive isn't political - maybe like the asian guy in the university he was tired of the ladies turning him down.
That was involuntary medication done by the doctors where he was being held. Places like that have procedures/guidelines that they follow when they have an inmate-patient that is a danger to himself or others if not medicated. His lawyers appealed and had him off meds for a while and over the course of a few hearings he is back on the meds. In addition to the danger issue the meds can make a difference in his competency to stand trial, I believe that he still is not competent.
With Holmes who knows if he is or isn't but his court room behavior was completely different from what was reported about how he was acting in jail.
Since there's no political motive (or should I say GOP political motive). No blacks were killed. Or gays and lesbian rights activist killed...
NBC will give this story about another week before they drop it....
The contemporary legal definition of insanity makes no sense. The guy is clearly insane. Someone needs to hang the jury on this one. Jury nullification is a powerful tool.
He is very warped, but that is not the same thing as insane. Did he know right from wrong? Did he know what he was doing? It seems pretty clear he carefully planned and carried out his crime. An insane person would not have the capacity to do what he did.
We all want answers, but I think the writer of this article is correct that the answers won't necessarily come from the legal proceedings.
No, it's just easier to stamp "insane" on something you don't understand than to try and figure out "why" it happened. People do it every day.
kaybeetoys
Yes he did. That's why he didn't tell anyone what he intended to do with all these weapons and ammunitions.
That fact is a clear indication that Holmes would not meet the legal definition of insanity.
He is responsible for what he did, legally, morally, and in every other way. He could have sought treatment for whatever emotions drove him to do such an unspeakable thing. Had he done so, this tragedy could have been avoided.
What motive? The guy is a sociopath. He should be brought before a judge and found guilty today; executed by firing squad (or hanging) tomorrow. Done.
John, you have my vote to be the next Attorney General of the United States.
It just gripes my ass that even if he gets the death penalty (in a year or two from now), he will then live out most of the rest of his life on the taxpayers dime while his lawyer files appeal after appeal after appeal.
This insanity needs to stop.
An inmate should get 1 shot at appeal to the appellant court for that district within 1 year of conviction and if he looses, execution within 30 days. Death row inmates can wait up to 25-30 years just going through the endless appeals process.
I am just surprised so many people want to give the easy way out ( death) That is surely what he wants. There can be no other conclusion. Life with no possibility of parole would be far worse for him.
put this mass murdering guy who also seems to be great at putting on an act in a stephen spielburg movie and give the proceeds to the victims family. this wont bring their loved ones back might help financially though. and then let us give him a permanent vacation in Abu Grabe(sadaam husseins torture prison)it would be much more engaging than a death needle.
Who gives a sh!t what his motive may have been. He's guilty, expedite the execution of this piece of sh!t just like Timothy McVeigh. No sitting on death row for years for his sorry azz!
Even "fast tracked" it took 6 years to execute McVeigh...
Timothy McVeigh was a true patriot.
I sure hope that was sarasm HoHum, I can sympathize with McVeighs supposed "motives," but his heinous actions were in no way patriotic!
Timothy McVeigh was the Tea Party movement with a backbone.
Timothy McVeigh was a bomber who killed innocent people.
timothy mcveigh was in the branch davidian cult. he was a mass murderer.why did he become anti american. who knows the answer to this one?
The motive seems simple to me, he wanted to be a "super-villain", he wanted to perform a heinous crime and walk out the back door like the joker would have. Im not blaming entertainment or video games, because i think thats idiotic, but emulation seems to be the obvious angle he was taking, make a 'big name' for yourself and get away with it.
and walk out the back door like the joker would have
I guess he thought that he could get away and never be caught. The police was there really soon after the shooting. So much for his "escape"plan, if he had one.
Total speculation here, but maybe his choice of study 5 (+) years ago-neuroscience- was an attempt to figure out what was wrong with his own wiring. When he wasn't getting any useful answers he went for "the record" instead.
Since tighter gun control laws aren't a likely outcome of mass homicide, maybe we could have tighter media laws instead. The immediate community can have as much coverage as is helpful for them; do the rest of us really need 84 hours of continuous media coverage and repetition?
The trial might not bring his motives to light, but I hope there will be some answers as to why an intelligent young man decided to throw his future away by murdering innocents.
Whether he is sick, evil, or just twisted, he is not the first to do something like this, nor will he be the last. We need to understand him if only to try to prevent this from happening again.
He's not crazy, most likely he wanted fame. Of course a legitimate defense, which would be accepted widely, is that the shooting of the six year old was necessary cos FoKKKs Nooze told him Obama would take his guns and ammo away from him.
I guess this will labeled "justifiable homicide", cos you know, Obama made him do it, cos you know, Obama hates America. Don't you get it people??? James Eagan Holmes was merely exercizing his 2nd Amendment rights ... with a 100 rounds-''drum magazine''!! Which sooo totally trumps the rights of a 6 year old girl to reach age 7, that much is clear! Why? Well FoKKKs told him he was under attack! Did he act alone? NOooooohoooo, you commie-loving-atheist! GAWD was on his side of course!! (<<<< gotta love that free speech thing, eh?)
And the media is giving him exactly what he wanted. Fame.
Wow, you got issues
Stay in Europe Observer- you've clearly lost all grasp on reality...
Clearly you're insane.
obama brought osama bin laden down. he is affording healthcare for all americans. he is bringing jobs market and manufacturing back to america.no we put romney in the white house send all the jobs back overseas. seniors will get voucher for healthcare if dont cover too bad.working poor will have no healthcare you dont make enough money. you can go on slapping burgers on a grill for us though. we need strength to take care of our mansions,mercedes and yachts.and spend the taxpayers money on more elaborate distractions.
Does he deserve the death penalty? Almost certainly, yes. But I hope his life is spared long enough to study and, hopefully, understand what caused him to do what he did. His is not the first case of mass murder but it's the only one I can think of in which no motive was offered. Perhaps by discovering the cause and what warning signs might have been missed, we can prevent similar acts.
kaybeetoys, your comment apparently came up as I was typing mine. Great minds, and all that... ;-)
The problem is, the FBI and other agencies have been studying and profiling serial killers for years, and while it can help to catch them, I don't see how it will help with these people who go along quietly for years, flying under the radar, and then suddenly go ballistic. Yes, some of them have obvious motives...workplace shootings...going after bosses and coworkers for perceived wrongs, "family annihilators", etc., and after the fact friends and family comment on how "he" got very quiet, started keeping to himself, became solely focused on something, etc...but everyone has 20-20 hindsight. Even after these things happen, over and over, no one expects the next one. I say give him as little publicity as possible...because I'd be willing to bet that's one of him motivations, and either execute him as soon as possible with as little fanfare as possible, or stick him in a deep dark hole somewhere where he will be forgotten, which, I suspect, would be his most feared punishment...total obscurity.
Unless the FBI and local governments can detain anyone who think has these tendencies, crazy and homicidal people are going to be a ticking time bomb UNLESS something is done by someone elese. You have to allow spying,tapping,internet tracking etc similar to how they would track terrorists, the mob (back in the day),etc to avoid another catastrophe and prove intent. This SHOULD happen b/c eg if I called the police and said one of my family members has been really going downhill and I have physical proof of something wrong then WHAT does the FBI,police,etc do then?
O don't forget about the ACLU.. they would LOVE to defend someone who is insane b/c they like to help sex offenders get "back into society"
First, it would help if mental illness and treatment were destigmatized. It would also be useful to know about other people who were courageous enough to seek counselling for their senseless rage, people who might have hurt others but were stopped in time, either by themselves or by the influence of friends, family, employer, etc..
It's like stopping terrorism...we don't hear about all the attacks that didn't happen, that were prevented by taking measures to detect and apprehend potential terrorists. In the case of someone like Holmes, if we had a ban on the internet sale of ammunition, or at least a system that had raised a red flag, this tragedy might never have happened and we would never be the wiser.
I bet that is he was black, they'd be saying he was on 'bath salts'.. If he was Hispanic, that he was an illegal alien that is a threat to the country, which most of them do.. If he was Muslim that he was a terrorist and he did not acted alone.. and if he was one of those, he's be DEAD by now... No question about that. But he's white and I hear is how an amazing student he was, and stuff. This guy is not crazy, he studied the brain, obviously he's gonna play his little part. I still wonder what was his motive. He is sane.
Motive? Is being off your rocker crazy a motive? Although I may not agree with it, I can understand a revenge killing or something, but shooting a bunch of people you don't know for no reason just because you can is pure insanity and there is no reasoning behind it.
A civilized society does not execute, nor even imprison, the insane. The only appropriate response to someone this insane who has done something this violent is institutionalization.
Yet everything he did was calculated. Why are people already making excuses for him?
Oh and crazy or not, who cares, he's a danger forever, he needs to be put down sooner than later.
I thoroughly agree. With Shandril.
The only appropriate response to someone this insane who has done something this violent is institutionalization.
That is exactly what he is hoping for. I am not sure that the families of the deceased would agree.
Shandril---Your gross ignorance in message after message simply makes you look like an arrogant fool. The entirely false attacks you make upon other people makes you look like as obsessively hateful as Ku Klux Klan leaders in their moronic costumes.
Taking advatage of the deaths of the innocent people in Aurora to promote your highly warped concepts of history is purely disgusting.
We humans are at times barbaric, it's who we are, and I can live with that. Execute him!
Where does someone like this get their money? The guy graduated from college in CA, then moved to CO to go to more school. He had an apartment, transportation, obviously lots of guns and ammo, so who was funding all this stuff? I have seen no mention of a job, so where does the money come from? If mom & dad were the money tree, did they suspect or event question where their money was going? Guns aren't cheap. I wonder if people close to this guy (family) knew he was "...odd...", but looked the other way hoping he would mature/get over it/etc. and kept sending him money instead of getting him help. Basically funding his activities rather than deal with his problems. I suspect there are some great feelings of guilt/responsibility in his family due to his actions.
Good question, I have been wondering about that myself.
Supposedly he spent almost $11,000 buying all of those weapons and ammo. No doubt he had some sort of stipend or fellowship for being in the PhD program, but the amount you get for being a graduate student isn't very generous, especially in a state school. Basically enough for living expenses and school costs.
So who was footing his credit card bills? Mom & Dad?
Good lord, this kid is SO crazy...how can that not be obvious?
The DP will make everyone feel good no doubt.
For a minute.
DP wont make anyone feel good, it will however insure that he will never harm anyone again.
But lets institutionalize him so you can feel better about yourself because youre against the DP.
We need to quit spending all this money on this piece of trash and just throw him in the wood chipper.
if that was your son would you say the same thing, by all you people saying kill him, put him in a wood chipper ill take care of him hang him from a tree, that really makes him no different then you are with all the violent things you people have in your sane or maybe they are insane heads, I believe its the pot calling the kettle black.. although you all hate him and loathe him remember he is a son and has family, and what if your son or daughter did something like this, IM sure you wouldnt be saying hang em shoot em kill em like a rabid dog.... you never know his parents never expected it..
don't be a hypocrite let the system work and it will prevail..
just sayin..
It wouldnt be my kid, and had he done this, im not sure id fight really hard to keep him alive for id never want to see him again. But again, it wouldnt be my kid, so i agree throw him in a wood chipper.
I do love you libs that are so compassionate to monsters though.
honestly i don't know what a lib is and I don't follow the government, I'm really not into politics but I'm not giving this guy compassion at all im just saying that all these people screaming kill him kill him and you put him in a wood chipper whatever that makes them crazy to, I believe to wrongs make a left and he will get his in the end but im just saying that he has a family and im sure they don't want to see there kid dead as i have kids to if they ever did something like this i would not want to see them dead but your right I would never acknowledge them again also..
hey to each is there own I respect the way you feel .
I do feel for his parents, and having had experience with dealing with children with mental illness, it is very difficult in every way. It's not as simple as "get them help" especially after they are 18 and you can not do anything against their will. I also feel he should be studied, although even then, you would need his co operation to do it. I think we really need to try to figure out why our society is getting so full of mental illness. Is it a pollutant in the air, water, or what is it? Something is altering our brain chemistry somehow, because we are really having a lot of this.
Of course, it still could come out that he was horribly abused or something by his parents so my sympathy for them is tentative.
If it was my son, I would be as grief stricken as the other parents, because they have lost their son too. Actually, they lost him months ago, they just maybe didn't know it.
Motive means, A reason for doing something ,that is hidden or obvious. well i think his motive was obvious he wanted to act out like the villain he assumed he was there is your motive I think its pretty obvious. I believe his motive was to be obvious he said im the joker, and if you read comics or watch the movies the villain usually does not die and goes to jail, so with said it may be hard to comprehend but I believe his motive is just that and he is doing some type of experiment, as always maybe he withdrew from school because it was not challenging enough and remember he just started his PhD so maybe he wanted to do his own work and he was the example, remember he might be a genius they say he was quite well maybe he just did not fit in with the other kids due to his brain, and we all know geniuses that are scientists are a little different as his school official said they are all a little quirky.. So lets sit back and let all these professionals do there thing and we will see how james plays this out, its funny but he is the one in control ..
just sayin
If you look at the Batman criminal characters you will find a character call the Scarecrow. Scarecrow was a professor of Psychology he was interested in Fear and Phobias. In Batman his name is Jonathan Crane. Jonathan Crane hair color is the same hair color that James Holmes has in his hair. I believe this is the character that James Holmes is trying emulate. If those that are in charge pursue this line of questioning they will find out the real state of this monster mind.
I just googled that and saw the images and its about the exact same. young smart highly educated, dorky quite recluse, person, then he has the other side with the orange hair... you might be on to something..
just sayin.
Interesting, but, the Cesar Romero's TV Joker had hair that certainly looked red on tv, and there was always a plot twist. If that's what he was emulating, the massacre wasn't the ultimate goal and the booby traps were merely a time consuming diversion. Is there a part two? Or have his plans been foiled?
Good preview and framework for what is to come in court. Thanks.