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Courtesy U.S. Air Force
An F-22 Raptor fighter jet flies in a training mission over the Nevada Test and Training Range.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Tuesday lifted flight restrictions for a squadron of F-22 fighter jets that are being deployed to Kadena, Japan, within the next few days.
The F-22s were restricted from flying more than a half hour from any landing area and at higher altitudes after several pilots suffered in-flight symptoms of hypoxia.
The 18 Kadena-bound fighter jets will fly a northern route over the Pacific that will not take them more than 90 minutes from the nearest landing field. Additionally, they will fly at lower altitudes — nowhere near their 50,000-foot operational capacity. The lower altitude will not put pilots under the same physiological stress as higher altitudes.
Once at Kadena, the stealth aircraft will be put back into the current flight restrictions imposed against all other F-22s. Once again on a short tether, pilots will not be permitted to fly more than 30 minutes from a landing field, and must remain at lower altitudes.
Related: Air Force eyes pressure vests in F-22 oxygen deprivation problem
Flight restrictions will remain in place for all F-22s conducting training missions in the U.S. and those deployed to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates in the Persian Gulf region.
The restrictions will be lifted only when the Pentagon is satisfied the Air Force has positively identified the cause and eliminates the threat of hypoxia for F-22 pilots.
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Why are we discussing operation readiness, flight routes and procedures of military aircraft on NBC NEWS? This in my opinion is information that the majority of Americans and all of our enemies do not need to know.
Certainly anything that reflects poorly on the competence of the military/industrial/Congressional complex should be kept carefully hidden from American voters. If our "enemies" are so incompetent themselves that they don't already know all of the details, then they're little threat to the US, but an informed electorate is an existential threat to the powers that be.
Hold your breath.....
Do you really believe that other countries don't know about the F-22s difficulties/ shortcomings.
With 187 combat and 8 test aircraft and at least 4 destroyed It has the highest loss rate in the airforce inventory.
The greater problem may be with the 2443 F-35s which use tech derived from the F-22 including the oxygen system. The F22 program started in 1991 and the first operational airframe was delivered in 1997. The F35 program was started in 1997 and the first operational airframe expected to be delivered this year. The program is 1million man/hours over budget.
G suit theory is deflection from yet another problem with Lockheed Martin's designs.
There are still several USAF fighter pilots assigned to this aircraft who are not convinced that the oxygen system issue has been addressed and are still reluctant to fly it. That's a rare reservation for jet fighter pilots, who are typically willing to strap anything jet-powered that will fly onto their backs and pull out the stops. But in this case they feel that an ancillary support system is risking their lives, not the aircraft itself. They feel loss of control.
Tim
As a former member of the military nothing is more beneficial to the survivability of our troops in any situation than the enemy not knowing the exact status of their adversary. So telling the enemy that if you are engaged with an F22 all you need to do is to go to high altitudes or high G maneuvers and you will have the advantage. Letting the enemy know how many and where is also information they like so they can get a numbers advantage in the ambush they set up. As reported these planes will be flying with in 90 miles of the coast of the former USSR and China. The only thing not reported in this story is when but the enemy has means to sit back and wait.
I agree, I do not understand as to why, 1. the Military or the Government releases this information and does not impose restrictions on this information. And 2 why the media, if they and the rest of us are worried about security, releases this information so that the entire world can read it. I remember the days when this kind of information was privileged information. The media is stupid in the sense they do not care about consequences and they have no common sense. Remember when we invaded Iraq, all kinds of news people with the combatants releasing all kinds of information, letting the world know where we were and what we were planning and doing. I do not understand this. My personal opinion is that information like this and other sensitive information should carry a penalty of treason for releasing it to the public or media. Only Washington can do that but they don't. Meanwhile we have terrorists sitting back home reading all this stuff to gather intel. It is beyond my comprehension why the media has this kind of latitude in reporting this stuff. Can someone chime in and explain what I am missing here?
Do you wack-off to war footage or something?
Apparently, they may have the hypoxia problem nailed down to these pressurized flight vests that aren't deflating after a high 'G' maneuver which, while still pressurized, don't allow the pilots to hardly take a breath. This inability to breath, of course, leads to the hypoxia problem. My first question would be: Are the vests made in CHINA TOO along with our Olympic teams' uniforms?
Hopfully they are, China does an sxcellent job of keeping costs down (the single most important factor whenever I purchase something) while still doing an okay job in quality, (which would be my personal number two factor.) They have a lot to be proud of, as things built in the US are so very overpriced. I just wish the US would look toward China for future production modles, and learn from their very successful buisness model.
Thank you Comrade Joe TEA Party so instead of being made in the USA and costing taxpayers 50,000 per suit while providing middle class jobs they are made in China with poor quality control at starvation wages and still cost us 50,000 per suit and endangering the pilots while providing huge profits for the corporations to give outrageous bonuses to some draft dodger and huge campaign bonuses to other draft dodgers...
Not even a good try Chris150. If you are going to bait you have to do it with a lot more flare and project knowledge of the subject.....sorry you get a 'D'...I would have given you an 'F' but maybe this was your first try and it showed, terribly......sorry..
where's
There is no such thing as a g-vest. They are talking about a g-suit. That is located around a pilot's lower half of his stomach area and his legs. It inflates to stop the blood flow to his lower extremities. So he will not black out during high G maneuvers. It would be stupid to have something to stop the pilot from breathing at any time during flight.
Chirs150 now help me out here, are you just stupid or a paid chinaborg? China is a 3rd world country with delusions of grandeur. They are insects and typically behave as such. Google "greater moon bear bile" and let me know how middle kingdom treats animals. Then let me know how they treat workers, Apple has very effectively shown that there is a slave labor system in China. Quality? I doubt the chinese even know how to spell the world.
@ flnobody:
The quote is from an NBC article. Try doing YOUR homework son..........
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48310628#.UBCS0aCwW3c There ya go junior. Read the article. I don't know if it's true but I'm not an expert like you, so I wouldn't know.
One of the most expensive weapons in the American military to date and it is a piece of nearly useless crap.... Yet the Republicans still think that DOD spending reductions (even after agreeing they would make them) are a bad idea? After all why stop lining the pockets of their super-rich donors when you can steal the food out of a senior citizens mouth instead.... or the education from children.
A flying piece of shyte tribute to GOP morons who hate teachers and would rather spend our money so they can (supposedly) more effectively hate foreigners, all the while padding their war-profiteers buddies' pockets. Remember in November, and vote for the party that puts working-class AMERICANS first, and the war profiteers can rot in Hell (as they surely will). We don't want another immoral government who can only offer jobs killing others while we are poorly equipped and far too likely to be killed ourselves. Fact is, Pentagon staffers HATE the d-bag Republicans who think they know better than professional soldiers and sailors, and voted for Obama overwhelmingly, and they will again.
your opinions are fine, but your stating as fact that the Pentagon votes overwhelmingly for Obama is very doubtful. Many military people voted Democrat back in the Sam Nunn days (and before) but Gore lost those votes forever when he tried to prevent military ballots from being counted, and it continues to this day.
Bring back the ME262. THE best fighter aircraft.
F-4 Phantom
Put 10,000 F-5s in the air run on the software in development for the X47B, no pilots. They could overwhelm any enemy. They would be cheap and expendable, the enemy would run out of missiles before the F-5s ran out even if they hit with every one. This would cost 1/6 what the 2443 F-35s cost.
I thought you were talking about the Blue Oyster Cult song
roc1960
That old 'BENT WING BUG EATER"?
If it aint leakin its empty, Thats the one! One Hell of an ole bird though.
At $350,000,000 per copy (10 year cost), you would think that they could installed time tested and proven systems. This is why we can militarily dominate but our nation's infrastructure is approaching third-world status.
Part of the scam that is defense spending is designing brand new equipment for every system. Of course, this includes costs of research and development, prototypes and testing. The F-15 is still a world class fighter, they could have updated the air frame with new materials, installed thrust vectoring engines and active counter-electronics equipment and bought many more aircraft for a much lower price.
To spend so much on a manned aircraft in this age is simple theft by defense manufacturers and the criminal congressmen that profit from lobbyists. Unmanned drones will rule the skies in the next decade, without risk to pilots and at much lower cost. Then it will be even easier to kill innocent civilians from the comfort of an armchair in Des Moines, thereby ensuring generations of hatred towards America and keeping the defense budget bloated.
And these machines will wind up attacking their human designers like Terminator 3.
The OBOGS used on this aircraft is the same system used on many of the new aircraft...
The same systems were installed on the F18 and AV8B/NA - 20+years ago...
The F15 was a electronics & wiring nightmare. With their cadmium-plating on its electrical connectors (Cylindrical D38999 and D Sub-Miniature M24308)...
The F-22 along with the F-35 was the product of the Clinton Admin. As far as teachers go we have a greater teacher to student ratio than we had in the 60's. How is that working for you. I guess the results speak for themselves. And if you really wish to believe the military overwhelmingly voted for O' get a grip. Your delusional.
They were a product of the Air force. No administration has much control over what is built, they only control the budget (sort of).
Wow, if I bought a new car and paid a relatively high price for it, I'd be pretty disappointed if it didn't work as advertised. What's really disturbing is that the aircraft (with obviously serious flaws) has been deployed. Why would anyone do that ? Seriously, we're not talking about "just pull over and call for roadside assistance", this is a big chunk of metal with our best trained pilots strapped inside. I understand that aircraft take time to move from the drawing board to the flight line. I also understand that every new system has problems that need to sorted out in the early phases, but C'mon man. CAD drawings, computer modeling, testing and scale modeling should have worked out most of these problems in advanced. But what do I know, I'm only the Common Joe, not an aeronautical engineer. But then I suspect the contractor had access to that kind of talent. Shame on them for not doing a better job and shame on Congress for letting the contractors get away with shoddy design and workmanship. Last note...it is very cool looking...a shame it does work.
Inorite?
Let me get this straight. The damn thing costs 350 MILLION dollare and can only be used for 30 minutes at a whack at vastly lower operational altitudes without the pilot passing out and the DoD is actually putting lives at risk in the POS. Wish it were a two seater big enough to get Panettas fat ass in with Moochelle in the rear. Sad state of affairs we are in these days. Hopefully Nov will bring a bit of scrubbing to the White House.
Rediculous to try to pin it on Obama, laughable.
The military controls it, the government writes the cheques.
Did everyone forget about Eisenhower's warning?
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132942244/ikes-warning-of-military-expansion-50-years-later .
Yes It take time for a weapons system to move from the drawing board to actual use,and there will be problems,but a lot of the problems with U.S weapon systems are caused by politicians requiring the latest gee whiz stuff,made in their district, to be added on.Case in point The SGT YORK anti aircraft gun designed to shoot down attack helicopters.Idea was to take an existing platform, design a different turret,fit the turret with a rapid fire gun,and use the weapon to defend against hostile helicopters.This was in the late 60's early 70's.When the politicians got through adding all the gee whiz stuff the gun would shoot at raindrops leaves or anything but helicopters.The system was dropped after wasting several billion dollars,it just would not work.
Lockheed martin received a $24 million contract to study the oxygen problem in a plane they built. Not suprisingly, they conclude it's not their fault.
AHHHHH!
It`s not the bird it`s the suits...geez, go by a clue or something.
You're serious, aren't you? Try to follow along... The suit, and the bird go together Brian, that's why they're referred to as weapons systems. Is that a little more clear for you?
Uh really?
The suit ties into the aircraft via quik-disconnects.
The suit is designed to keep the pilot going, not the aircraft.
The suit stays on the pilot, not on the aircraft.
What exactly is your expertise in this area?
Brian
The g-suit has nothing to do with the pilot breathing. The g-suit is located around a pilot's lower half of his stomach area and his legs. It inflates to stop the blood flow to his lower extremities. So he will not black out during high G maneuvers.
How about 20+ years working on fighters! What's yours?
30 years in the aircraft industry as a mechanic, QC, tech. writer and manufacturing engineer.
The suit I`m referring to is not just the G bladder. I`m referring to the flight suit in general.
However early reports suggest that the G bladder may indeed be the culprit as it`s not inflating and deflating properly.
By the way did you switch avatars on the fly or just butting in here?
Yeah, just as I thought...
Crickets, LOL!
Well... the sound of crickets means that you've lost your audience, usually through sheer boredom. And an LOL, really? Is this how you communicated as an "engineer"? Or did you just wake up from a 20 year coma?
Touting unverifiable credentials of your so-called expertise on the internet shows a desperate need to seem authoritative in the face of criticism. It's a common tactic employed by those to whom no one listens in real life, so they assume an internet identity in an attempt to satisfy their craving for attention and relevancy.
Add to this the fact that you still seem to regard the suit as independent of the airframe, apparently not catching on to the fact, or unwilling to admit that systems within the aircraft control the suit.
Maybe you are indeed an expert, but nothing you've contributed here makes you seem as informed as you claim to be.
There is something truly awe-inspiring about the physical form, the aesthetic of the F-22 fighter. It looks like it could have been born in the design studio of Ferrari.
While admiring it's physical beauty, it is so easy to lose sight temporarily of the amazing performance specifications and frightening destructive power of this aircraft.
Agreed. As an air superiority fighter it has no equal. In dog fights it "kills" all the F-15s and F-16s before they even know it's there.
Congress is scared of going after Lockheed for producing junk. We cannot allow Lockheed to put our brave pilots in danger. They have to fix this jet at their cost.
HEY! If you people keep @!$%#ing us we will kill you.
This OBOGS has been installed on numerious aircraft types for over 20+years...
A U.S. Air Force Accident Investigation Board (AIB) report is blaming the Nov. 16, 2010, crash of an F-22 Raptor on Capt. Jeff "Bong" Haney - despite a malfunction of the jet's bleed air intakes, which caused an automatic shutdown of multiple aircraft systems including the primary oxygen system.
An aircraft's engine bleed air system extracts air from a jet engine's compressor section to generate power and supply gases for an aircraft's life support system, among other systems.
The AIB report confirms Defense News' Sept. 8 report, in which an industry source and a pilot both said that a bleed air malfunction had caused the crash by shutting down the oxygen system. The AIB, however, places the blame on Haney for not reacting quickly enough to activate the jet's emergency oxygen system or recover from a dive he inadvertently entered into as he struggled to regain his air supply.
reference - http://www.defensenews.com/article/20111214/DEFSECT01/112140302/USAF-Board-Blames-Pilot-Not-Oxygen-System-F-22-Crash
Thank you AC. Finally, a post with something more informative than anecdotal evidence or supposition. Well done Sir.
It's not surprising that such a severe systems malfunction on a new fighter was ultimately chalked up to pilot error, anything else would cast an unflattering light on Lockheed's engineering.
I hope they're still under warranty.
Well i am sure all the A-10 drivers will appreciate having all these F-22 jockeys buzzing around at low altitude with them,better hustle on this one,because right now its the worlds most sophisticated paper wieght,or low level bomber??.