thank you, IXLR8! finally, someone who believes he's NOT LEGITIMATELY CRAZY. A guy this smart would know to "act" crazy. Don't people watch Law and Order: Criminal Intent??? Anyway, I certainly hope he gets the death penalty! Even death by burning may be too swift, but he'll be punished for eternity where he'll be going....

The problem with your theory is that you don't really understand mental illness. Experts who have been following this and watched him in court have said that they would guess his mental illness is genuine. He was showing classic signs of a psychotic episode/breakdown (no it doesn't happen overnight, but over weeks or months).

How does someone go from a fine, upstanding student pursuing a PhD, to a cold blooded killer? Something doesn't add up.

There is no doubt that he is guilty and as far as I am concerned not doubt that he was not clinically insane at the time. He deserves a quick trial and, following the inevitable guilty verdict, a quick executions. I certainly hope that for once our legal system puts a stop to all the ridiculous legal maneuvering and endless appeals so that the sentence can be carried out relatively quickly. By relatively quickly I am thinking maybe within five years instead of the usual decade and a half or more that it takes to carry out a death sentence. The victims as well as their families and friends can not truly begin the healing process from this horrible event until all the legal maneuvering is over and the sentence is carried out. These people do not deserve to have their pain prolonged just so some lawyer can run up additional fees on the taxpayers dime trying to delay the inevitable. If ever there was a clear cut case for the death penalty, this is it. With the amount of planning that went into this horrendous attack, there is no doubt that this a first degree murder case with special circumstances warranting the death penalty. With the planning that he did, buying weapons at different locations and amassing large amounts of ammunition from multiple sources, there is no way that anyone will ever convince me that this guy did not know exactly what he was doing and that he was not clinically insane in any sense of the term. I say clinically insane because I feel that for anyone to do what he has done they must be crazy, but there is a difference from being crazy in the sense of departing from anything resembling normal behavior and being clinically insane by the medical and legal definition of insanity.

So this could have been prevented if the university would only read their mail????

IX, you know so much about the shooter, shame on you for not talking to law enforcement before the shooter went on his rampage, how do you live w/ yourself, how

I watched the courtroom proceedings where this guy allegedly 'looked' crazy. From start to finish, he rolled his eyes, feigned confusion and the rest of the crock to 'appear' to be a nutcase. Yet, if you were watching this carefully-you will see him glance down at his PD's notes. They were quick and careful glances, and anyone who studies this guy will see the same. He was calculating in his preparation of these shootings, and obviously (by the protective vest), knew what he was doing well in advance of this despicable and heartless shooting. I don't buy the 'crazy' act, and believe that is exactly what this was. Tragic for the families, and my heart goes out to them. Just another sociopath needing attention and thinking he can get off with an insanity plea.

@JS - executions? How many times do you want to kill him? :)

Sane or not, something got wired wrong in his head. Manson is insane IMO but serving a life sentance. This guy is no different but should be held accountable. He probably did lose touch with reality but a truely insane (mentally incompetent) person could not have amassed all the weaponry, body armor, home made bombs or IED's, or plan to get into the theater, sneak out to arm up and carry out his plan.

The man will be tried and hopefully punished, but how does posting your sadistic fantasy about how he "should" be punished help the families of the victims? All this post proves is how evil and sadistic YOU are.

I dont buy this insanity crap either. Its not hard to figure out that he is trying to act like a nut case now so he can get off on an insanity plea. He had this planned out for a long time then all of the sudden he just snaps? Please......this was planned and he knew exactly what he was doing.

MSN has painted this picture to make it look like this guy carefully thought out the entire scenario for what he was doing but wanted to kill more than he did. This is not the mind of a lunatic but a careful murderer.

I agree about the execution talk but what will really bug the hell out of this little punk will be to lock him up for life. And not in some seg unit but in gen pop.

He's not insane- I too saw him glance at his attorneys notes... it was an act to avoid the death penalty

You people don't seriously believe you can diagnose this guy from what you see in a court hearing do you?

No Joe Wallen we do not diagnose him based on a court appearance. We are basing it off of the fact that he planned this out for a long time and now he doesnt know where he is?

JS has it right. Whatever the case end the POS now. The only decent thing he could do is to just plead guilty and admit full well he new what he did in hopes to shortening the trial and getting down to carrying out sentencing (execution) in the near future not 20yrs from now after untold number of appeals.

Keen - While I support the right to own a gun, I do believe in limits or further certifications to own certain guns and training requirements that should come along with it. I also believe groups like the NRA have lost sight of the original intent and have to much influence (as do many other groups in their position, no more lobbyist and campaign limits will solve that). They have forgone common sense and practicality to letting political motivations control them. I'm glad for some of what they do mostly they are too far off the deep end as well (a flip side opposite, if you will, would be PETA, glad they want to protect animals but they are way off the deep end and doing more harm than good; more and more what the NRA is doing which is sad).

As for better access for mental care to those who need it. Yes it is something that I think needs work. The US is far better off than most but you are right, there are many who don't get the help they need do in large part to cost.

It is time

It would be better to just announce that he will be freed in a few days, then pick a day and name the exact time and place--just stand back and let nature take its course.

The debate on if the guy is crazy or not is moot. Anyone who decides to kill anyone in this fashion IS NUTS. However, I feel that where the legal system fails us, is that one can plea insanity and get away with it. I think they need to accept that the guy is insane, but go ahead and try him for the death penalty. Mental illness is not an excuse.

Why didn't the cops when they caught up with him,shoot the bastard and save everyone the pain and trouble.its a sad world we live in today.

This is a no-brainer, give him the death penalty!

They should let the parents of the victim have him for a few hours and we could save a lot of money from the court system.

Since we are all deciding this clowns fate.....why not drop him off to the Taliban and tell them he is a jewish-catholic-christian that eats bacon everyday. They will figure something out very fast.

and who would really want to be in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. He will always be separated from all other inmates because it is such a high profile case. If he is not truly a nut job now he will be in 20yrs. Look at Michael Carneal. He now realized he was wrong when he shot up his high school and 15 yrs later he wants to be shock parole. He too is living in confinement and nobody wants to be friends with him either. I'm sorry but if I go to prision for the rest of my life I would want to live among other inmates not alone. Jus sayin. Peace out Man

"What's to stop a domestic terrorist group from "arming up" knowing that their right to purchase an arsenal is protected by the NRA?"

There is nothing to stop a decent honest hard working American citizen to buy/own and carry a gun of ANY kind, and we are NOT protected by the NRA. The NRA supports our very own United States Constitution that gives us that right to own guns.

So in your theory, you'd rather every responsible legal owner give up their guns and sense of protection; then only the LEOs, military, and criminals would be armed.

Now to me, that sounds like a scary situation! You already can't trust our failed Government and it's employees for anything, so then where do you turn for help and protection if needed, for you and your loved ones, the criminals???

So....did the package have a bomb in it? Or poisonous gas? Or just a message that he was going to kill people? From what I've read of this guy he seems to have a character fantasy about being the Joker. It wouldn't be very Joker like if he didn't send something deadly in that package.

I also think, playing off of the Joker role, that he will try to plead insanity, then try to escape from the asylum he is committed to so that he can plan more mayhem.

To Certain Posters:

I T-O-L-D Y-O-U S-O!!!!!

Look at that picture...that lunatics' eyes do not line up to pointing straight ahead! My highest regards and apologies to the late Marty Feldman, a wonderfully funny comic.

It seems in my opinion that too many are over thinking this. I actually think he's crazy as a loon but that he should be tried and executed just the same.

Unfortunately, I read somewhere that his trial can be expected to take months, if not years, which is ridiculous because if he killed only one person there wouldn't be any media sensationalism or lengthy proceedings.

Justice would be better served if his trial and sentence were carried out by year's end but the reality is that he'll spend decades on death row with the bleeding hearts filing appeal after appeal.

Insanity should not be a legal defense. Even self-defense requires a degree of temporary insanity. Personal responsibility is the bottom line & a threat to society should be taken out - immediatly, with extreme prejudice. But elrenno is right. Something about this tragedy does not stand the light of day.

Chicago gun laws are some of the strictest in the nation, but some have compared the south & west side to Baghdad. Every night & weekend, shootings in the double digits. So, more gun control isn't the answer. Who wants to be the only one in the room without a weapon?

He can never "escape" or "get off" via an insanity plea. If found to be insane, he can be held as a danger to society. They certainly won't let him go home, he'll be institutionalized. And then if he ever regains his sanity he will stand trial.

But dayumn! He looks like a space cadet in that picture.

Even if he will be given death penalty, doesn't fix the problem. The real problem is that people can get licence for gun very easily. Many people in the US have guns at their home which is not a safe thing to keep. Except for one person who was Asian and did mass shooting in Virginia Tech, all others have been western from families who have been keeping guns at home or have had friends who had gun and for sure it happened many times in their get together that they talk about guns and that way their kids get familiar to it and want to have and use it. That has been a big problem in the US where people are given licence to have guns. Since recent mass shooting, getting licence have jumped in North Carolina because of safety. This is not safety but more dangerous and threatening.

This is beside the point but I'm wondering if he was "acting crazy" or was just exhausted. I'm pretty sure he was probably questioned for hours on end (was it 2 days after the shootings they had the hearing?) and I thought he looked more like he was avoiding falling asleep in court. I'm not saying he isn't crazy... I lean more toward the idea that he snapped, planned, and followed through, obviously. I'm curious to find out WHY.

But I'm a why kind of girl...

i agree. this dude is super intelligent and a psychopath. he is going to run circles around most of us.

instead of helping us, he decided to murder innocent ppl. death sentence..

i hope they @!$%# him and then cut his head off in prison....

even those with mental illness, can learn to act even more "crazy" once they realize they have to suffer consequences. Trust me now, this was an act in court, he may be mental, but what you all saw was a pathetic attempt to plea to those who consider this possible only if your mental.....

im pretty sure i acted that same way when I ran away from home when i was 16 and did want to face my fathers wrath...boy howdy did i act like i had problems in school, blamed my friends, blamed my mom, omg did i blame everyone but myself....something bad did happen to me, but what my parents saw and what my family saw....all a damn act because my dad was "no spoil, just rod"....

all i see here with this "creature" who killed the innocent...a wussy attempt to plea to those who know someone who suffers from a mental condition....

we cannot allow the mental issues some face be to put in the same category as this life form (holmes)...even those with mental illness know right from wrong. He's not mental, not like depression mental...no no, this devil is clever...not mental

but i guess one has to wonder if being that cleaver is a symptom of psychosis

If he didnt go around hitting people, or show other signs of issues before he did this, then that should be what the court uses to prosecute. And if he didnt seek help, then all mental conditions should be eliminated from the defense.

Or.. diagnose anyone for anything. Not that i agree or disagree, but we have too many armchair detectives running around thinking they're Matlock.

ok were sizing this guy up.....maybe we should just ignore this and go back to facebook games, that way when someone else in our own communities is preparing for this...we wont even know what to look for....

were sizing him up, because we dont get it! Suggestiong this man could be this or that, is perfectly ok, I dont think any of us are seeking him out to do him harm...we just want the judicial system to work without the fancy work of some attorney to get him off scott free...he needs to be put away forever (what ever means ) and not just talked to like an infant who needs help.

It might surprise you all that most of the victims families and the survivors dont want him put to death. That is the problem with the death penalty. Closure for all of these people will be 20 years down the road. When you get the death penalty you sit on death row for at least 16 years with appeals, appeals and more appeals. Look at Scott Peterson - he has been there for many years now. And the alternative of 12 life terms in jail and probably more if you add the injured means he will die in prison so for the family's sake that will bring closure a lot sooner. After all the trial wont even be for at least a year. That is long enough for them to wait for Justice to be served dont you think!!! Yes I am from Canada and dont believe in the death penalty and we dont have it - but truthfully if anyone deserved the death penalty it is this guy and I would support it - but we have to think of the families and what they would like.

off with his head!

IXLR8,

"my crazy thoughts planned and the fake gestures in court planned."

But he can't fake those bulging eyes. It looks like he is either crazy or suffering from hyperthyroidism. Protruding eyes are one symptom of that (both craziness and hyperthyroidism).

Maybe he has had odd twisted thoughts for a long time, but was able to hide them. Something triggered him to go from thinking about doing bad things, to planning and executing those thoughts.

The fact that he planned this for a long time means what? Can a cold bloodied killer ever be considered sane, or the fact that somebody killed so many innocent preclude him from ever being deemed sane.

Sanity is hard to measure. I know many folks I honestly think are very strange, but they manage to exist in life. Some hold down jobs, but most don't.

It would seem to me that anybody with just a morsel of decency left, or the ability to know right from wrong would the following day after such an event be so racked with horror by their actions that they would just want to die and be relieved of their anguish. We see shooters often killing themselves after killing innocent friends or family members. So clearly they were insane to kill, but living with their actions was too much.

Did his family wonder about him? Did they ever try to get him help? Did he try to get help? Even if people thought he needed to be institutionalized our system doesn't make that very easy.

We had a crazy doctor in our neighbor. He shot at our neighbor and tried to drown his wife. We called the police. They came and saw about 25 loaded guns in the home and signs that there was heavy drinking and the garbage was never taken out. They took him to a holding cell to dry out. He was then put into an institution that our community demanded. Keep in mind he had insurance. He was kept there for a few weeks and then released. What was wrong with him was never going to get fixed. So he lived back with the population and kept us all scared to death. BTW, he got to keep his guns.

I have walked this path through the court system. I am telling you that committing somebody that is clearly a danger to society is extremely hard.

Punishment? Since he looks more like Carrot Top, let be in room with him while he does his act. If the guy doesn't want to commit suicide after that, then find another means of execution.

People can make a legitimate argument that he is mentally ill and I would agree with that - you have to be to commit a crime like this. This wrong can not be righted by a guilty verdict by reason of insanity. As sad as it may be for his family, someone like this isn't deserving of our tax dollars funding his incarceration and medical care for the rest of his natural life. An officer should have just put a bullet in his head at the scene - nobody would have questioned it if he claimed he pointed a weapon at them.

Sadly, this is the type of case that is deserving of the death penalty. Whether he is sane or insane, he is as evil as Timothy McVeigh. The real tragedy is that he is still alive. He has destroyed many lives and families - including his own. I feel sorry for his family as they must be grieving as well.

Fire in the hole,

"An officer should have just put a bullet in his head at the scene - nobody would have questioned it if he claimed he pointed a weapon at them."

Did you really mean to say that? It sounds like you are condoning police brutality and dishonesty.

off with which head?

What i don't get about this dork is he goes into a theater shoots children and people he don't even know but he warns the cops that his apartment is rigged. The cops would have been the last people i would have warned of anything in a case like this. Piss poor excuse for the joker.

I'm over hearing about this creature and hearing about him, as well. He is beyond contempt. Just let me know when the verdict is in.

He has all this planned to try to escape via the insanity plea, don't buy it. The shooting planned, the apartment rigged and planned, now a package detailing my crazy thoughts planned and the fake gestures in court planned.

Being crazy is not the same as being stupid. He may not be crazy, but the fact that his actions were carefully planned, and included the booby-trapping of his apartment does not prove or disprove his sanity; it only give an indication of his intelligence.

There are forms of psychosis which still allow a person to function at a near normal manner in society. Delusional disorders, of the type popularly referred to as paranoia, are a good example. Those with these disorders frequently believe they are the object of some vast conspiracy, or that a movie star is secretly in love with them [despite letters from lawyers, multiple arrests, and the complete indifference of the object of their obsession]. Such people may feel compelled to act in accordance to their paranoid beliefs, by attacking some public figure, stalking them, committing a killing spree, or, less harmfully, by filing an endless series of meritless lawsuits. But they don't see or hear things which are not there; they are often still able to plan and act and may even be gainfully employed.

Yet, they are quite insane.

I don't know what motivated this man to strike out at people he had probably never met. It might just have been narcisistic rage at society for his own unhappiness, which is not the same as being insane, or he may believe that everybody in Aurora CO is an agent of an alien invasion invasion force, which would be evidence of insanity.

I'm going to wait until a little bit more is known about this latest spree-killer. Insane or just evil, either way, I'll be happy if he never walks free again.

Regardless of what the publics opinion of this individual is he will go through the system and sometime down the road a decision will be made as to what to do as far as punishment which will in all likely-hood be appealed and this matter will be drawn out over the years and will be replaced by other future horrific events. Our society I'm sorry to say has deteriorated over the years thanks to the flaming liberals, the ACLU, that have brought us to the point where we are in a self destruct mode.

These acts will continue as long as the media continues to give them the attention they are so desperately seeking. Instead of naming the killer, just refer the them as that, "the killer". Maybe we could prevent more of these senseless killings if they aren't given what they are seeking. Let's keep the focus on the victims and their grieving loved ones.

Fine line between sane and insane.

Guy was obviously competent enough to plan as much as he did.

Though he seems deluded enough to think that he is some mastermind like "joker" (grandeur)

His egotistical delusion is only supported by people claiming how "smart" he is. Not that he wasn't smart, but let's forget about this otherwise average guy, whose only distinction is his sadistic disdain for life. No more attention! Going to ignore all further news on the subject unless it centers on remembering those who are no longer with us or on legislative action concerning the gun control debate.

Spread the word!

dman,

"Those with these disorders frequently believe they are the object of some vast conspiracy, or that a movie star is secretly in love with them [despite letters from lawyers, multiple arrests, and the complete indifference of the object of their obsession]."

Yes, and that's a perfect description of John Hinckley, the guy who shot President Reagan.

Mickey-1983943,

I did say that, fully aware that many would take issue with it. I understand your point - this is just how I feel.

Yes, and that's a perfect description of John Hinckley, the guy who shot President Reagan.

...and probably many others.

@KeenInSight - If he wanted to die why was he wearing body armor and a tactical helmet?

So, they're saying because this guy is now acting nutty that he may be insane and incompitent to stand trial? Um, this guy was going to college to become a neurosurgeon or something else in neurology, not the lightest of subjects. Did he have all of these people fooled while going to school, maybe acting like a normal sane person but really, inside, he was a nut-case all that time? Either he has a history of craziness or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then he had full knowledge of what he was doing as he made his plans and killed all of those people. I say give him an Emmy then lock him in the gas chamber with it.

I have never seen a larger gathering of idiots pretending to know . . . anything. Not an expert among you on the subjects of the insanity defense or of mental illness. Typical Americans. A$$holes and opinions - everybody has one. I've just never seen such an exercise in voluntary stupidity. By the way, Khan, a history of mental illness, or the lack thereof, means nothing. Except that the guy WAS or WAS NOT sick at some time in the past. When did logic become the enemy of the common man?

So...back to the topic, just how in the hell long had that package been sitting there?!!? It could have been the difference between life or death for the unsuspecting citizens of Aurora that night.

When trying to determine the sanity of a defendant, the judge and court appointed shrinks usually analyze whether or not the suspect knew the difference between right & wrong and if they were aware of the situation when they committed the act. Based on this sicko's actions it is YES to both.

If he didn't know what he did was wrong, then he would not have informed police upon his arrest about the booby trapped apartment. The package, depending on what was in it, was most likely a cry for help or a last ditch effort to warn someone.

Add to this all of the meticulous planning that occurred prior to the shooting and not only was this guy fully aware of what he was doing, but knew it was wrong. I don't think the insanity plea will fly here

By the shooter now telling authorities about the package a few days after the shooting, says to me that he is trying to get maximum exposure in the public eye. I wouldn't be surprised if the package contains his manifesto of sorts, similar to the Unibomber. Why these nut jobs seek out attention in this way is a mystery to me, but all I know is that we must not give it to him. Lock him in a cold dark cell until his trial, and the only thing I want to hear from the media is whether he will be given life without parole or the death sentence. I don't want to be hearing his name every day and I definitely don't want to hear his thoughts on life or why he felt the need to kill innocent people. If the press wants to report on something, let's hear how the survivors are doing!

I was going to say, you cant rely on the colleges for anything they're just worried about taking your money, with online courses they don't even have to leave their homes, they're scarce with no support the students do all the work. It reminds me of that song "money for nothin" Dire Straits.

I could go into why this Guy did what he did but it would be speculation just like everyone else. No doubt he is very smart maybe even Genius. But that is always one step away from insanity.

Even if found to be unfit for trial. He will not be let loose. He will be locked up for the rest of his life. You cant be so called normal. Plan for 6 months or more to do something this Insane. Then carry it out without remorse. No Sane person could. Many a person could be capable of a crime of passion like murder if pushed over the edge. But not mass Murder. Something is definitely wrong with him. He may be smart but that does not mean he is not Insane.

From reading these comments, most people are uninformed about mental illness. You can be aware in minutes and other minutes hear and see things. It is like a flux of being in and out and trying to make sense of the confusion. Lets see what the professionals have to say after they examine him. They will be doing brain scans, spinal fluid taps, blood testing to rule out everything that could cause a psychotic break from reality. Once they rule everything out, then you people feel free to go on with the mob lynching mentality.

Anyone who can declare that Larry Holmes is as sound as a drum is as nutty as a fruit cake. They are in heavy duty denial. All of them are talking pots that call Larry's kettle black. What a pity.

He looks so sad in his picture. I feel bad for him just as much as I feel bad for the victims.

If everyone in the world had compassion like yours Bella, we would never have headlines with shootings. :) (or any other crime, for that matter!)

bellavidamoriah,

"I feel bad for him just as much as I feel bad for the victims."

I share your sentiment. When you stop to think about it, most criminals are also victims of their own crimes. In most cases you can't do harm to others without also doing harm to yourself in the process.

bellavidamoriah,

"I feel bad for him just as much as I feel bad for the victims."

You will likely receive a great number of hate posts, but I find it refreshing to find that there are some people who are able to keep the best part of their humanity even in the most difficult situations.

There is no doubt in my mind that this person had to have been possessed by evil. This is not to excuse his actions, for which he is responsible. It is simply that he chose to allow the evil to overtake him.

I find it rather amusing that there are so many people on here with bachelors degrees in psychology. dman gave the absoulte best statement aboutt he sanity of this person, and the most revealing thing he said was that there is still to much to know and find out before a diagonsis can be made. Surely there is something wrong with this guy and mental illness is not something that just come on, it has to have a catalyst in some cases and there are genetic factors involved in others. So untill we know what the outlying factors are (which is what the psychologists that are involved in this case are doing), then we will know if he is "just faking".

Clinically...ummmmm,

"dman gave the absoulte best statement aboutt he sanity of this person, and the most revealing thing he said was that there is still to much to know and find out before a diagonsis can be made."

I agree. Dman's posts are usually pretty sensible.

I have no training or expertise in psychology; just "gut feeling". While I watched Holmes' behavior in the televised parts of his first court appearance my gut feeling was "he's acting." It just didn't look real, to me. Something seemed amiss.

Then when I read about his repeatedly spitting on jail employees and now this tidbit he dropped (for the FBI to pursue) of his writings he sent to a campus psychiatrist, .... it all seems too pat to me. It appears to me that he is trying to lay plausible foundation for a "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense.

My gut feeling is that he's a very intelligent young man, and that the events we are watching unfold now are still all part of his well-thought-out plan. My gut feeling is that he is "playing" the system, and having a good time doing it.

I am also of a mind that he is faking a mental illness. Formost is right in his school records, he was studying neuroscience to be more exact bioneuroscience. He knows just how someone would act if their neurology was messed with in a chemical/emotional manner. He wasn't just starting the studies he was well into it.

neu·ro·sci·ence
[ nrō s ənss ]

1. scientific study of nervous system: a scientific discipline that studies nerve cells or the nervous system, e.g. neuroanatomy or neurophysiology, or all such disciplines collectively
2. molecular and cellular neurology: the scientific study of the molecular and cellular levels of the nervous system, of systems within the brain such as vision and hearing, and of behavior produced by the brain

Jeepers, Joy. That was helpful. Not.

His studies make me think he may have noticed he had a problem and tried to heal thyself. And failed.

A lot of people who are professional specialists in neuroscience don't necessarily know how brain disorders affect the everyday behaviour of people who live with them.

Wow.Such a complex case.Could it have all been avoided if people in our society, including those who are now coming out of the walls to support the survivors-as they should-took some initiative to help when they see another person showing symptoms of out of control depression,anger,chemical abuse,delusions such as conspiracy theories that interfere with their ability to function,ect? And could damage control have been done beforehand if people were just kinder to each other in society?

I'm sure that those things would cut down on some of the homicides and suicides that happen every day but I don't profess to know what's going on with Mr. Holmes.

Making an educated guess based only on what we know about Holmes thus far though I'm wondering about a new onset of bipolar disorder and also malingering in court-unless he was given some type of heavy duty sedative at the jail. I wouldn't think that that would be done just before a court appearance.

Bipolar disorder might explain the new irrational decision to drop out of school,the new onset of extreme anger,the distorted thinking even if he was able to plan clearly.It also might explain a dive into clinical depression when he was arrested,charged with a lot of horrific crimes,despised by the whole world,ect.However clinical depression does not normally make someone too sleepy to stay awake during a court session,even though people who live with it may sleep excessively,

@kcstrawberryblonde1

" ...if people in our society, including those who are now coming out of the walls to support the survivors-as they should-took some initiative to help when they see another person showing symptoms of out of control depression,anger,chemical abuse,delusions such as conspiracy theories that interfere with their ability to function,ect? And could damage control have been done beforehand if people were just kinder to each other in society?"

You're absolutely right, of course. It's just very unfortunate that it is so complicated to get a legal adult committed to mental health care without their cooperation. I think the article says this man, Holmes, is age 24.

I don't know the laws in Colorado regarding involuntary commitment of a family member. However in Oregon a mentally ill person almost always has to first run afoul of the law in order to be taken into custody for a commitment hearing and adjudged a danger to himself or herself or others

So as obvious as it may seem that those who love and care about someone who is struggling with mental illness should step in and take control, if the person is a legal adult then family members are often helpless when they try to get the state system's help.

kcstrawberryblonde1

Your message is like a breath of freshness. Its rationality gives me hope. Thank you for that!

Or he could have just been taken over by a demon.

I wasn't talking about getting someone involuntarily committed to a hospital for a long term.We all know that is highly complicated.I was talking about less complicated things that people can do when they witness someone withdrawing from society.Examples of red flags are: No longer interested in the things that they used to enjoy,no longer wanting to engage in conversations,poor concentration,not wanting to leave the house, a person who used to be well dressed now be showing up in dirty jeans or sweats and a wrinkled,smelly t-shirt,no longer smiles or laughs,may be extremely angry,all body/thought processes slow so the person may start being extremely late to appointments,or a previously dependable person may be a no call no show,a woman who put a lot of effort into her appearance previously may now not wear make-up or style her hair,taking a lot longer than they used to to get things done,no longer following through with promises (e.g."I'll call you tomorrow") but never gets around to it. The person may look like they've been crying or are about to cry,may be abusing alcohol or other drugs,may gain or lose a lot of weight,may sleep excessively in the daytime and stay awake at night-to name a few.

Too often when people see some of these things going on they normalize it.In fact, if the person in question continues to show big behavior changes for more than a few weeks, people around them need to know that what they see is usually the tip of the iceberg.

With an extremely intelligent person who is good at covering up the fact that something is wrong,who also happens to be single,live alone,not have especially close friends,and not have a family nearby problems can be harder to spot.But I would think that by the time Mr. Holmes, a previously excellent student,just walked away from his doctorate program,that there would have been something someone should have seen, because it saw them.

People who have brain disorders often think something may be wrong but don't have insight to know exactly what is the problem.Also they are rightfully leery of seeking medical attention because of all the ignorance,bigotry,and intentional abuse toward people with brain disorders,as well as too many so-called "health care professionals" in this field who do more harm than good. Getting someone to a physician who knows what they're doing and will treat the patient with respect,and then getting the patient to comply with the treatment are huge challenges.In my previous post I was trying to point out that we can often make a difference even if we can't accomplish all of the above.

People whose lives are one torment after another,who have nothing left to make them go on,and who are too emotionally exhausted by having everything important to them in their lives taken away one at a time-to start picking up the pieces by themselves-may well be out of reasons to not end their own life or not end someone else's. We could,however continue to initiate contact with a person showing warning signs;Just enough to send the message that we still value hearing what they have to say, We can continue to treat them as someone who deserves respect.We can send the message that we believe that they have something unique to contribute to society.We can refrain from criticizing or talking down to them for things that happened because of biological brain changes that are beyond their control, such as not attending things that they said they would or not being able to concentrate well enough to complete their personal business on time.Alternately,if they do have family who seem like reasonable people we might express a concern to a close family member of theirs.

If that is too difficult,members of society could simply refrain from being unnecessarily cruel to others just because they can. Doing any of those things may well make the difference between life or death,or may prevent an illness from progressing to the point that the person completely breaks from reality,or sustains permanent brain damage.

If simply being civil to vulnerable people because it's the ethical thing to do,and because being cruel may do more harm than we thought,is out of the question for some "people" perhaps those "people" need to come to the understanding that if they keep being a jerk to others someone with nothing left to lose may take a shot at them.(Or at some innocent bystander.)

If we have a relative who is losing ground to a brain disorder and doesn't want to accept help,I agree with Robert about how hard it is to get something done.IMHO,if they're saying that going to a certain hospital,certain therapist, certain psychiatrist,or taking a certain medication,does more harm than good, they might accept help from another source.It may be that what they're saying is right on.

If someone is a threat to themselves or others you can intervene without going to court and having them declared to be in need of commitment.At least in Missouri(which has some areas that aren't the most progressive places around so I imagine other places have more options) if you witnessed someone saying that they're going to harm themself or someone else, you can call 911 give the medics an affidavit stating what you witnessed when they arrive,and the person will be involuntarily hospitalized and evaluated for 96 hours.

"Crazy" by Pete Earley is about a father's struggle to get help for his son in the situation Robert is describing,and is a good read.nami.org has some good resources.While I know of cases where some NAMI (National Alliance For The Mentally Ill) offices haven't delivered everything that they promise,their Family To Family class is excellent and I've never hear anything negative about it.

Hope this helps.

The red flags that I listed in my last post would likely indicate someone sinking into a Major Depressive Episode.A person going into a manic state is also in distress and they might be angry,and might be abusing a substance,but otherwise most of their red flags would be the opposite-all systems would be in high gear.

My husband and I completely agree with you. He bought all of this stuff legally. How often do mass shootings occur in countries with stricter gun laws, I ask?

Perhaps we need stricter body armour laws, or stricter tear gas laws, or stricter trip wire laws.

This has nothing to do with gun laws. Most people who own guns aren't mass murderers.

No, but all mass murderers own guns. He bought all of these things with our tax dollars. He was given 26,000 per year to live on so he could concentrate on his education. Instead, this is what he used that money for.

My heart and prayers go out to the families in this tragedy but gun control is not the answer. Enforcing the current gun laws and stiff penalties for violators.

Here is some interesting info about gun control and the results
www.saveus.org/docs/factsheets/intlgunfacts.pdf

Well how about this - the Theater had a no firearm policy. That means that citizens concerned with following the rule and laws of the establishment left their firearms in the car. Perhaps an armed citizen could have reduced the carnage. So that rule established by the theater did nothing but give the shooter a pretty good idea that he would be facing unarmed citizens.

Now I'm not an attorney - but I'm pretty sure that shooting up a theater full of people is illegal in Colorado. So there is another rule or law that was ignored.

See - the thing is that folks that want to kill can always just load up a rental van with easily obtained - legal to have fertilizer and damn near knock down a building. I'm pretty sure there is a law against that as well.

In a free society, there will always be whack jobs that will use all sorts of lethal weapons (airliners, bombs, vehicles, knives, baseball bats, poison, hands, feet, stones and rocks) to kill people. In fact I'm also pretty sure that evil men have been killing folks with anything at their disposal since day 1. Restricting the ownership of firearms through additional legislation will do nothing to make anyone safer except for the evil folks that wish to do harm on a large scale.

If the shooter had been restricted to buying a handgun instead of assault rifles and other weapons of war, he would have had to at least point and shoot instead of just loading 100 bullets, pulling the trigger, and spraying bullets all over the place. Whether you shoot one person or 100, you are still a danger to society.

But I guess we should follow the advice of the NRA and all buy guns and carry them with us everywhere so if someone begins shooting we can all shoot back. Sure, there'll be collateral damage...but we have to protect that second amendment.

What evidence are you referring to? In fact, I think you'll find the evidence shows quite the contrary. Violent crime rates in the U.S. have been in a constant decline for a couple decades now, gun laws be damned. Besides, stricter gun laws will only impact the law abiding citizens who would never do anything like this anyway. Those with criminal intent will always be able to get around the law.

Blackhaart01, that's about the LAST thing that was needed. Let's see, dark theatre, people running and screaming, trying to get away. Complete chaos. And you want other people joining in the crossfire??? Even more would have been killed.

I support people's right to own a gun. I do NOT support people being allowed to stockpile a huge arsenal of guns and ammo. That's what needs to change.

NRA just makes excuses for legally having weapons. "Right to bear arms for protection." Ha. Having a huge NRA / Forest Service problem up where I live in the Colorado mountains by a small town. Groups of people coming up in the middle of the night with flood lights shooting .5 miles from homes, bullets have been hitting houses at times. These fanatics have threatened lives. Govt not doing anything about it because pressure from the NRA. Could tell you years of stories. Not impressed with the NRA. My observation is that every Tom, Dick, and Harriet can own a gun and fanatics teach even their small children to shoot. But you all know this, nothing new. It is shocking how gun shops and the internet, with such lack laws, make it possible for anyone, and I mean anyone, to own guns that are made to shoot other humans. There isn't even any law for a limit on those kinds of guns, specifically how many one person can acquire. Crazy human race and society.

"How often do mass shootings occur in countries with stricter gun laws, I ask?"

Not very often, and certainly not once a week like they do in the USA. I've had it with protecting the rights of gun owners. It's at the cost of a lot of innocent people (including very young children). I'm sure I'll receive replies with the same old lame arguments. [My proactive response]: No, if people would have been armed, they wouldn't have been able to stop this psychopath from killing the people he had killed. It's too late to have any kind of real protective gun laws in place. The hicks, psychos, and gang members are already armed to the hilt. The second amendment should have been rendered obsolete decades ago. The NRA whack jobs make me sick. It's been proven that our society is not responsible enough to be toting guns. How many more people need to get killed for the majority of Americans to understand that guns are lethal and irresponsibly used. Some of the desensitization to gun violence comes from irresponsible movies and television shows. America is sick with it. And before you tell me to "love it, or leave it", I'll tell you that I pay more taxes than most Americans do. This is my country, too.....even though I think guns suck. How about you "leave it" and all go to some huge island and shoot each other to death?

Penelope2, "all mass murderers own guns."

Thats like saying all drunk drivers own cars... should we outlaw cars? Cars kill more people in a year than guns.

Penelope2,

Not all mass murderers own guns. Many mass murderers kill by other means.

ALL mass murderers breathe oxygen but that is one of the very few things that they all have in common.

Blackhaart01-

I agree. How much more devistating would this tragedy have been if he would have used a home-made chemical weapon.

My point being, he is a nut-job who wanted to kill lots of people, and if he were not able to obtain guns, he would have found another way to fulfill his demented plan.

Blackhaart,

So your suggestion is to do nothing? You should be a member of the Federal House of Representatives.

How many more people need to get killed for the majority of Americans to understand that guns are lethal and irresponsibly used.

You know the same thing can be said about automobiles which by the way kill scores more Americans than guns do so do you suggest we outlaw cars also?

Gun laws would prevent shooting sprees?

Please tell me more about how criminals follow laws!

Let's see, dark theatre, people running and screaming, trying to get away. Complete chaos. And you want other people joining in the crossfire??? Even more would have been killed..

That statement is a theory and in the given circumstances I'm not sure what the outcome would be or how it would play out. Thousands of rounds to freely spray a crowd of people vs someone in that crowd attempting to stop the threat?

I have my concealed carry license and have wondered if I was in the situation how I would have reacted if I had my firearm on me. To obtain a concealed carry permit in the great state of Oklahoma you must pass a course to prove you can handle a firearm SAFELY. You don't have to be a great shot but you must prove to the state certified instructor (since everyone is into LAWS) that you will not be a risk to yourself and others while handling the firearm. We are not advised to shoot at will or play the police but to STOP THE THREAT.

Considering the perpetrator was wearing (supposedly) protective gear I don't know how effective 13 rounds of 9mm would be but I don't think I would have hesitated to at least try to protect myself and others. My concern is, and has been, if you are in a situation such as this and choose to discharge your weapon YOU are now target #1.

I suppose now I will wear a bulletproof vest every day to go along with my pistol JUST IN CASE I have to act if found in a situation.

Let us not take away the weapons of law abiding citizens that might just be able to stop the attempted mass murderer from fulfilling their plan.
We are not the enemy. I wish some people could see that.

anon... think with whatever brain cells you have, just try. i know its hard but try.

to all you would be heros... please do not fantasize that you could have stopped this killer. If you had a concealed weapon you hardly could have done anything more than endanger more lives including your own. He threw a gas canister into the theater first. that alone would have been screening him and rendering your eyes useless, it was dark as is. Then you would have had to had tremendous luck in finding a spot that he didn't protect with swat gear to even have an impact on him. So if you even tried a shot, you most likely would have hit an innocent, or if you hit him would have only pissed him off more to the effect of him shooting even more people aiming of course at you first.

danimyl - I'm so sick of hearing this arguement:

'You know the same thing can be said about automobiles which by the way kill scores more Americans than guns do so do you suggest we outlaw cars also?'

Of course people die in car accidents, because they are accidents. People die from eating too much, or sitting in the sun too long or diving into shallow water.

The intent of these activities are not to harm or kill, but it does happen.

Carrying a gun has only one purpose; to harm or kill. Whether you are the instigator or the defender, the intent is the same. So stop comparing gun deaths with everyday tasks that we all do.

QuigleyGal Not taking sides on the gun issue

But you asked a question About countries with stricker gun laws. Try looking at Mexico Guns are illegal for an average Citizen to have. You would go to prison for it. Yet Mass shootings due to the Cartel happen allot.

to all you would be heros... please do not fantasize that you could have stopped this killer. If you had a concealed weapon you hardly could have done anything more than endanger more lives including your own. He threw a gas canister into the theater first. that alone would have been screening him and rendering your eyes useless, it was dark as is. Then you would have had to had tremendous luck in finding a spot that he didn't protect with swat gear to even have an impact on him. So if you even tried a shot, you most likely would have hit an innocent, or if you hit him would have only pissed him off more to the effect of him shooting even more people aiming of course at you first.

I believe he was probably "pissed" to begin with hence walking into a full theater auditorium and attempting to murder as many as possible.

It's not about heroics. In no way am I attempting to play the role of law enforcement or Wonder Woman. I believe I have a right to attempt to protect myself and others if given the opportunity though. If someone would have shot him or not his goal was to shoot as many as possible.

Wish they had allowed the link to post! :(

Exactly!!! I wish we would see more headlines saying "disgruntled guy kills self, before killing others" instead of the other way around.

People with bipolar disorder are far less likely to commit violent crimes than someone with a psychotic disorder. During a manic episode there wouldn't be enough organizational skills to do something like this, nor would his erratic behavior go unnoticed. During an episode of depression, more likely to self-harm than to harm others. Even with a mixed episode or rapid cycling, still not likely. Yes, it is possible that this is the case, but not probable. I have bipolar disorder and wasn't diagnosed until late 20's. I earned my MA and PhD during the time I was diagnosed and finally maintained beneficial treatment, and I had several major episodes during this time. I almost ruined my chances of getting a PhD a few times. Anyone around me could see at the time I was pretty much in and out of reality. It's completely noticeable, and I have watched many, many others go through similar situations. Academia is rife with mental illness. The difference here is I never lost touch with reality enough to want to do something like this. And if I had, I wouldn't have had the structure to follow through with it. Whatever is going on with James Holmes is severe and is some form of mental illness. Even if he has a sociopathic personality disorder (which I doubt), it's still mental illness. You don't plan out and commit a violent crime of this magnitude without there being something askew (mentally, emotionally, physically, biochemically, hormonally, etc). But no one knows enough about him or this situation to make that diagnosis. Yet.

Well put. Obviously was not trying to make a diagnosis rather just a suggestion. Obviously this would be a subject where you would be better informed than myself.

neu·ro·sci·ence
[ nrō s ənss ]

1. scientific study of nervous system: a scientific discipline that studies nerve cells or the nervous system, e.g. neuroanatomy or neurophysiology, or all such disciplines collectively
2. molecular and cellular neurology: the scientific study of the molecular and cellular levels of the nervous system, of systems within the brain such as vision and hearing, and of behavior produced by the brain

this is what he studied, he was well into it.. he knew what he was doing.

You don't know exactly what he studied, for how long, or how in depth or how well he understood the material. Nor does his knowing what he was doing negate the possibility (or outright certainty) of him having a diagnosable mental illness. By that logic any college educated person diagnosed with a mental illness who happened to take a course in psychology (which are often offered as part of an elective curriculum) must also be faking it.

aaaaand thats reason number 234 why i HATE texas.

Texas has had their problems, too. David Koresh comes to mind and so do the murders at the military facility.

Because you can't get away with crap in Texas? Move to Vermont.

Yep TexasDan, that's why we killed probably 5 or 6 innocent in the last 10 years. But hell we live in Texas it's alright. Right??

No, every major college does not have a full slate of summer classes, and staff is also minimized, even at large universities with large departments. So it's easy to lose mail. It depends on the size of the department, staff, whether the professor is teaching that term or not, how often the professor gets to campus, and so on. It also depends on what that department's mail room looks like, how it's set up. You would be surprised how easy it to misplace, forget, or otherwise lose campus mail. And not just in the summer. Student work goes missing all the time, class projects, library books, and so on. And that's from teaching for ten years at one of the largest land grant universities in the US, in on of the largest departments, and five years at one of the oldest private art and design colleges in the US. Mail is mail. It gets lost and neglected everywhere.

You are a moron!

What rich said x2.

@ boe-1363655

What comic book are you reading from? You're probably the type that watches the news & thinks everything is a conspiracy theory against the "white man". Like that idiot poster "Seriouis Bizz" (who probably isn't black, just a troll trying to start race crap. GET OVER YOURSELVES!

If you need a bible to tell you the difference between right and wrong, is it ok to go out and shoot people or is it not, then YOU are who we need to worry about.

Cute considering most wars fought are religious in nature.

When i look in the mirror i just get turned on.

scotty- yeah the fact that he was able to get a weapon that could spray a hundred bullets in a few seconds - yeah some kind of control would be nice, but the ones who hold your silly book so tightly hold on to your firerams tighter - listen your book is a bunch of nonsense , i also do not need it to tell me right from wrong - how simple minded are you that you can not figure that out for yourself - i and millions of others do not believe in your silly stories and i and millions of others would not ever do what this guy did - so now whats your point

Many Muslims and Christians say they are religious or spiritual and are not, 75% to 80% people say the are Christians because the were born in the USA, or go to Church by the way most live thier lives they are not. The Catholic Church has been corrupt since its beginning. Read "The Two Babylons. Christian means to be Christ like or little Christs read what a Christian is in the Bible. So you are misinformed

I'm guessing you didn't read Anders Behring Breivik's manifesto huh? Christians do crazy violent @!$%# all the time, Even God did his fair share of killing, encouraging rape, abortion and slavery.

Scott, the reason why these people don't understand is that they are "of this world"....

You are preaching to people who reject Christ. Who do not believe and disregard the Holy Bible as "silly".

I suppose people will feel "silly" when they are being consumed by the fire in the end...

Oh well. You can't change an unwilling heart. All you can do is spread the Word, the rest is up to them.

God, help us all...

Took me two weeks to get through that book. He put a lot of thought into it; I must say that.

Wrong Duckie. I'm an atheist but I don't "reject" Jesus Christ, at least not as a person. I believe he was a person in history that had some great ideas for how everyone should live their lives but he wasn't related to any gods. He was just a man with ideas that were ultimately corrupted by those that saw religion for what it truly is; a way to control the masses, a way to make loads of money and a way to get people to fight their stupid wars. If I remember correctly, Jesus was against organized religion. That is what I reject; organized religion of any flavor. It breeds corruption, extremism and causes people to put the responsibility of everything they do or say into the hands of a make believe "god" instead of taking responsibility for themselves. If everyone was just spiritual and didn't try to force their personal beliefs down everyone elses throats or try to create laws based only on their religious dogma, the world would be ..... a happier place.

oh please the silly book has already caused enough confusion and chaos - no but you scotty you have it right, you have the answers , you are on the right path - who cares - enough preaching already - man you think people would realize by now what a crook it all is - just do your best and be nice to people - thank a god for life once and call it a day- another words keep it simple

That or he is looking for an insanity sentence in a hospital where he will undoubtedly write a book .. something on the line of " Inside the mind of mass killer, Joker style"

Well, the stamp on the box will only tell you what date it was postmarked by the Post Office, for one thing. This does not indicate what date it arrived at the college. And while we can 'guesstimate' it 'should have taken about X number of days' based on where it was sent from, USPS only guarantees a delivery timeframe on Express Mail, folks.

he lived on or near the college.. the post office can tell you just how long it takes for a package to get there.. most likely one day.

It could be cost effective if we did it the way they did in China - single shot - bill to the family for 89cents to cover the execution.

YOU are living in a fantasy land. There have been no confiscations of guns/rifles from any law abiding citizen no matter which isle their senator or congressman sits on. I hope you were trying to be funny because your statement is pure and utter bullsh!t.

Where did you get that ridiculous piece of information from? Turn off the fox noisebox and get with the program. We aren't discussing politics at the moment and it's sad that it's so ingrained in your mind that you don't realize that.

After this, that may all change

Hey they, "they" tried to say that when Obama took office too. Never happened though. But hey, gun sales went through the roof just like with this. It was a great ploy to get the dumbas$es of the country to go buy more guns. "They" duped a lot of people, didn't "they"?

You are an even bigger MORON. The Obama administration has not confiscated anyone's guns or ammo.

"Deh plane!! Deh plane!!

@who cares - you serious or just joking? i really cant tell.

I wish you were right, but his parents have hired an lawyer and it will be delay, delay, delay. It will cost the state of Colorado a fortune. He will probably either get the death penalty or spend the rest of his life in an insane asslym.

Lawyer here. It's done partly to avoid any potential civil litigation. Contrary to popular belief, saying "alleged" does not totally shield a party from being sued. However, it does reduce the chances of a lawsuit by friends or family members.

Also, as a legal reality, he is still presumed innocent. As overwhelming as the evidence is, the United States system of justice presumes that he is innocent until he waives his rights or loses at trial. Just like George Zimmerman, he is not a "murderer" as long as he is presumed innocent.

You think he was a victim of mind control?

Absolutely a victim of mind control. when he was growing up his parents did not control his mind. Enough. obvious lack of teaching right and wrong. I really dont see anyone going off the deep end unless they have been at it for a while.

Perhaps we should re examine the insanity defense as well as the mental deficiency defense. Our laws allow this defense to save the criminal from execution but the ultimate truth is he in fact did the crime. We put dogs down for far less.

Why are you reading and posting on this article if you're bored and not interested?

Do you not believe that mailing a package, perhaps detailing his intentions is not a major development? If you are tired of this story, don't open the links.

Legally, it makes a difference. A person who is legally insane (see the link below) has to first be rehabilitated and restored to legal sanity, before they can stand trial or knowingly enter into a plea.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Legal+insanity

Also, be aware that an insanity defense can be waived by the defendant. I think John Lennon's killer, Mark David Chapman, waived further evaluations against the advice of his lawyers.

Clotho- I agree that criminals need to be restored to legal sanity for trial, however there are two problems I have with this plea-

1) The defense can use this plea almost indefinitely, since in the legal system the accusatory side of the trial cannot monitor or control how evaluations are made over insanity. In other words, the defense holds a monopoly on evaluations, and a good lawyer can easily make evaluation results confusing and undetermined.

2) In many cases, when insanity IS concluded, they push to ensure punishments are lenient and/or prevent the death sentence, since in most (if not all) states, it is against the law to serve the death sentence to a mentally impaired criminal.