How will this affect places that are fracked?

Since this is all about money, it would be very poor form to mention that the aquifers are being drawn down. It only took thousands of years to fill them, so no biggie, right. Of course, the gas frackers also need the water.

Hey, it's all about money. You can have cheap energy and you can have cheap food. Of course there won't be any water, but hey.......That's all right. This is America, where we're all dying for money.

Move to New York State. We have over 7,000 lakes and over 70,000 miles of rivers and streams. No water shortages here.

First, we need all the global warming / climate change hypocrites to stop burning all the coal with their electric cars, smartphones that burn far more electricity in the frequency of recharging than regular cell phones, buying cereal that is sealed in plastic bags to keep fresh, and being treated by medical equipment using plastic.

It is impossible to maintain the avg life expectancy and quality of life we all enjoy without using the earth's resources and putting out pollution.

Until you are willing to go back to an avg life expectancy of 35 years (which it was just 200 years ago), please realize you are just as much a part of the problem as everyone you point fingers at.

First, we need all the global warming / climate change hypocrites to stop burning all the coal with their electric cars, smartphones that burn far more electricity in the frequency of recharging than regular cell phones, buying cereal that is sealed in plastic bags to keep fresh, and being treated by medical equipment using plastic.

There were many predictions that the climate change deniers would move from saying that it wasn't happening to saying that it was too late to do it anyway and so there was no point in cutting into profits.

It looks like they missed one step: blaming everyone, including those giving the warnings.

vglance

Some energy resources are renewable, some are not. Your "sky is falling" scenario is unimpressive.

It's the reality Byron. What are you going to do about reality? Say it's only a select people who are at fault? The average person has either no idea or doesn't care about how much they benefit from the things they use every day. They don't want to know the math on how much health care costs, how international trade works, how we can actually reverse the debt clock....

You can sit there on your high horse pretending all you want. But you are a direct beneficiary of the very same products and services as everyone else. And yours didn't come from a magical place of free energy and no waste.

Can anyone else on this website take a moment out of their day to engage in a REAL conversation instead of being a pawn to either the right or left's propaganda machine and rhetorical talking points?

Anyone?

There is a lot I don't know, and I cannot do. I don't speak a second language. I don't play a musical instrument. But my passion, my hobby is spending an ungodly amount of time learning how the world works. History, politics, global trade, economics, finance, manufacturing, supply chain, logistics... I just love learning about how things are made and where they go.

It's not a very fancy thing to have as a hobby. It doesn't help pick up chicks. And there are very few people who care enough about these things to engage in a meaningful conversation.

But when I go on these threads, it amazes me that people don't even know the simple math (and not every equation involves money) on pretty much anything. It's the progressive movement and their idea that it's 'too difficult' to learn all this stuff even on a basic level so we need a massive central government (completely obviously to the corruption and inefficiency that causes) to take care of these things for us.

Give it a rest!

Move to New York State. We have over 7,000 lakes and over 70,000 miles of rivers and streams. No water shortages here.

Grow a lot of corn in New York do you?

Renewable energy? Of course. But your math, like everyone else that believes in renewable energy as the cure-all is off. No one cares to do the math on the square miles necessary to build wind farms enough to make a dent. No one cares about the issues with solar panels. Another government-subsidized company just went belly up (Solyndra all over again) right here in Vegas last week.

And it's been proven that the cost in energy to process corn exceeds the benefit you get from it and even the strongest advocates of corn are finally admitting to it.

We need to find energy solutions that work. We're not there yet. But you are doing the classic propaganda trick of misdirection. You are derailing the conversation off of the fact that we are all guilty in our consumption of resources and waste and need to demonstrate the humility in that by not pointing fingers at others, into a conversation of renewable energy resources.

vglance

It is impossible to maintain the avg life expectancy and quality of life we all enjoy without using the earth's resources and putting out pollution.

Until you are willing to go back to an avg life expectancy of 35 years (which it was just 200 years ago), please realize you are just as much a part of the problem as everyone you point fingers at.

So if I understand you correctly, if we move toward renewable energy resources and away from fossil fuels; begin replacing non-renewable conveniences with renewable conveniences and begin trying to limit our production of CO2...we're doomed to revert to a 35 y/o life expectancy? Are you a complete idiot, or is you last name Koch?

"When they show you who they are...believe them!"

vglance

Renewable energy? Of course. But your math, like everyone else that believes in renewable energy as the cure-all is off. No one cares to do the math on the square miles necessary to build wind farms enough to make a dent. No one cares about the issues with solar panels. Another government-subsidized company just went belly up (Solyndra all over again) right here in Vegas last week.

And the largest solar energy manufacturer in the United States (not government subsidized) is alive and doing very well here in Oregon...thank you very much! What exactly do you expect your children and grand children to drink in lieu of clean water? Or perhaps like most tea baggers seem to feel, they can rot in hell so long as I'm not inconvenienced?

"When they show you who they are...believe them!"

"How will this affect places that are fracked?"

Doesnt matter, the whole country is "fracked"

You can't blame the average person for pollution unless they're ramming around town in an SUV. Most of us have little choice in the matter of ecological responsibility. Sure, we can ride buses or bicycles more often, we can recycle our plastic bottles, and we can do other such simple things every day, but nothing much will change until we have more governmental regulations-- including population control, Chinese style.

No one cares to do the math on the square miles necessary to build wind farms enough to make a dent.

You haven't been looking very hard if you couldn't find that info, vg. It's everywhere.

In fact, the entire planet could be powered by wind, water, and solar, requiring just 0.5% of the planet's landmass. From Stanford University:

Providing all global energy with wind, water, and solar power, Part I: Technologies, energy resources, quantities and areas of infrastructure, and materials

@ Ol_Doc:

Yes, we do grow a lot of corn in New York. We have these things that are called "farms". Maybe you've heard of them. You do know there is more than just New York City in New York State, right?

Vglance,

We might be all to blame for using products that cause co2 emissions. Though, I think some more than others.

The biggest difference is that a huge part of the population has seen this problem coming for over a decade, 99% of the science community has been on board with climate change. Just the few scientist that were bought, like the ones that were bought by big tobacco in the past denied that it is changing rapidly. Then the republicans have been blocking and causing anything to remotely address this issue.

Gobal scale event can't be combated on a personal level, it needs to be adressed as a nation, then joined together with the international comunity to truely fix this problem.

we are in for a inflation in food stuffs, that will curl your hair;our contracts for grain shipments overseas, has all but drawn down all surplus we had, with this drought, our overseas commitments for sale and food aid to starving country's, will cause shortage, and a jump in prices of at least 30% to 50% over the next 10 months, we are heading into uncharted territory.

It is important to stock up NOW while the prices are still down. I will be buying flour (50-100 pounds) as it can be frozen for 2-3 days to kill any eggs/bugs in it, then stored in old popcorn tins. I make most foods from scratch and this will help. We also grow a garden and I can our produce.

People need to learn to PREPARE for the worst so they are not left to pay the hefty prices.

What do you want to bet that next year it will be a wide spread flooding year. There has to be a way to trap all of that flood water and put it into reservoirs so that it can be used in times like these instead of letting the water run off into the Gulf of Mexico. So to the Government why not spend all of that money that you donated to aids or these wars you just love to start to something more useful here at home?

I do not know how deep the water table is in the mid-west or west for these farmers to drill there own wells and place pumps and large water tanks all over these farms so that they do not have to rely on irrigation( I know it takes money to do all that). I mean is it not important to make sure that people have food to grow, to be sold to markets for others to buy so that they can have food? or is this just a way of making the middle and lower income people become poor and be the servants of the rich??

One cannot just simply say why not move here,because there is no shortage of water here, Well that is ail fine and good but some of these crops will not grow in these other places and it is not that easy or simple to just up and move. What I saw in the plains of Canada were farms that had these wells and water tanks all over their farm lands and there was no lakes or rivers/streams anywhere nearby. No one in government is going to stop and help you so it is up to you to find your own solution to the drought

This might be thought as foolish or whatever but what is your solution to the problem?

John Cougar Mellencamp Scarecrow This is on my mind people

The crops we grew last summer weren't enought to pay the loan

couldn't buy the seed to plant this spring,so the farmers bank foreclosed.

This land feed a nation, this land made me so proud, son I sorry there just memories for you now.

This is most likely going to happen again and is that going to help our food shortages? No. I hope for their sakes it does not.

Give it a rest!

@ Ol_Doc:

Yes, we do grow a lot of corn in New York. We have these things that are called "farms". Maybe you've heard of them. You do know there is more than just New York City in New York State, right?

Golly Gee Farmer Greenjeans, I had absolutely no idea the great state of New York could take up the slack for the Midwest. That's good to know...roflmao.

Yes, LoriSm, and that is exactly what will drive prices up even sooner.

Killroy:

It is very excellent that you realize that we have a problem. Unfortunately, it is unwise to not allow water to flow to the oceans. We are between a rock and a hard place. As it happens, the Mississippi River drains great portions of the central U.S. Sadly that water is loaded with pollutants, not the least of which are nitrates. The Gulf is a disaster as a consequence, one of those very nasty secrets that no one wants to discuss. The damage from the BP blowout pales next to fertilizer pollution. Which is not to say there aren't plenty of other polluters.

I strongly urge you to read Cadillac Desert, an excellent book on water issues. Once upon a time the Bureau of Reclamation was headed by a fellow name Floyd Dominy. He believed that any water that flowed to the oceans was wasted. Today, we know that was horribly wrong.

As far as the water table in the midwest, it is declining rapidly. The Ogallala will not be with us very long at the rate the farmers are pumping and the frackers are not only decimating groundwater, but they're polluting it as well. It is a blatant lie to say that fracking does not pollute groundwater.

I also urge you to keep an eye out for Physicist-retired's posts. He is very much on top of the global warming issue.

Lastly, Ol_Doc is spot-on. You might ask him about why Oregon is REMOVING dams.

Droughts happen, floods happen, welcome to the planet Earth.

Thomas L. Friedman's "Hot, Flat and Crowded" is a fascinating read no matter what your political persuasion.

The climatic factions that are necessary to support human life on any planet must occur within an extremely narrow band of parameters. Go above or below this band for an extended period of time and life as we know it cannot exist.

Reducing debt and other important belt tightening we must do for future generations looks kinda irrelevant if we mistreat our planet and we die. Don't ya think?

Such a WWS infrastructure reduces world power demand by 30% and requires only0.41% and 0.59 more of the world’s land for footprint and spacing, respectively. We suggest producing all new energy with WWS by 2030 and replacing the pre-existing energy by 2050. Barriers to the plan are primarily social and political, not technological or economic. The energy cost in a WWS world should be similar to that today.

....This is from the abstract of your link Physicist-retired. You seem to have left some other facts out of your land mass estimate.

Read the whole thing, Kornfed. It's very interesting, and I assure you that the information I cited is in there.

It states that we are talking only a 30% reduction in demand with a requirement of .41 an .59 of additional world land area. That is different than saying it only takes .5% with a 100% reliance on WWS.

How many people remember the record flooding last year? Mkay.

You didn't read it, did you?

I'm not too surprised. We have the same arguments over and over, because the links never get read.

My information was from the abstract....answer the charge sir.

If we could only pipe over that melting ice from Greenland and spread it around it would be a win win.

some of the best inventions are from the USA... building water storage tanks tho out the US drought areas can solve alot of the high prices.. and durning the flood/spring seasons is the best time to start pumping .

these types are ,reverse osmosis filtrations systems and or mico/nano filtering systems ..there are other ways to save water.. stop with the end of the world BULL S.....and use the brain mom and dad gave you

i live inside the arctic circle alaska our winters are 9 months long we pump water into tanks using the above type units ..the cost is great but the benefits are we have save drinking water and fire surpression

@ Ol_Doc

Well, my lawn is green, I water it twice a day whether it rains or not. Most of my neighbors do too. God bless in-ground sprinkler systems and timers. I left for work this morning and it was pouring, I looked over at my faithful sprinklers and they were plugging away doing their job.

If I could direct some of the fresh water resources of NYS out west I would. But guess what, I can't. If the current conditions in the Mid-West last for an extended period of time there will be a migration of people to more hospitable locations.

New York State may not be able to make up for the entire Mid-West but at least I know our local food supply is in decent shape.

Give it a rest!

@ Ol_Doc

Well, my lawn is green, I water it twice a day whether it rains or not. Most of my neighbors do too. God bless in-ground sprinkler systems and timers. I left for work this morning and it was pouring, I looked over at my faithful sprinklers and they were plugging away doing their job.

Holy sh!t, I'm still trying to get my head around your comments. Ok, that's nice your lawn is green, so is mine but I'm not going to stick my finger in the eye of folks in the Midwest.

If I could direct some of the fresh water resources of NYS out west I would. But guess what, I can't. If the current conditions in the Mid-West last for an extended period of time there will be a migration of people to more hospitable locations.

New York State may not be able to make up for the entire Mid-West but at least I know our local food supply is in decent shape.

These two paragraphs more or less go together and pretty much negate one another. If there is a mass migration of people from the Midwest to ...oh...say NY, then the next sentence no longer applies. We can either look at the overall climate change effects collectively as a people, or we can pretend we're all Tea Party members and go by ammunition. Either we live together and help each other, or die in small desperate groups. I've seen both and can go either way, but I'd prefer solving the problem.

Those two paragraphs do not negate themselves. There is a large amount of fertile land left in NYS. If the population rises there will be much more incentive for people to grow crops on their land. As it is now many farmers can't make ends meet. If the farmers in Washington County, Saratoga County, Rensselaer County, Warren County, etc. can make money on their land by growing food instead of selling their land to condo builders it would be beneficial to all. And I'm certainly not sticking my finger in the eye of the folks in the Mid-West.

PS. Thank you for your military service. I respect that very much. I have two younger cousins that are active duty right now. One in the Air Force, one in the Marines.

And all of that Hot Air coming out of Washington isn't helping matters.

Give it a rest post 1.3...

yeh, and water still flows over the falls. Regardless, my mom's grass (in WNY) is so dry that it crunches under foot. Sure it can be sprinked, but the normal rainfall in the area usually makes it a non-issue.

BTW - The corn and soybean output in Iowa would usually make anything NY produces seem like a hobby farm. Then again, NY outproduces iowa when it come to fruits and grape for wine.

Move back to NY? NFW! Mom pays nearly 4x's more a year in property and school tax for property that is assessed within $3 grand of my own in Iowa. Then there is the increased local option tax boost in WNY. Amazing that so many years ago Buffalo/erie county just wanted a temporary local option sales tax. 30 years later it has only gone up.

Not even ted's hot dogs, bocces pizza, real buffalo wings or beef on wick can entice me to move back to NY

Physicist-retired

Just think. We could have put solar panels to provide electricity on half the houses in America with half of the money we wasted on the 'Stimulus Bill'. Look at all of those coal fired plants we could have closed down.

By the way - if the referenced study is accurate, the 'smart money' will invest in clean alternative energy sources because they will make money on it - that's how the free-enterprise system works. I'm sure that some very bright people are looking at any alternative that currently makes sense - the best thing the government can do is 'Get out of the way' and stop putting up regulatory roadblocks to discourage development. Unfortunately, much of the bureaucracy has the attitude that 'They have to review and approve anything', which is why new energy projects can take 10 years just to go through the review process, and even after years of review and approvals, they can be stopped at the whim of a politician (Witness the Keystone Pipeline that Obama blocked after all of the years of reviews, approvals and permits were obtained).

Ol_Doc, the mere fact that you resort to the vile and disgusting term 'Tea Bagger' immediately eliminates any and all credibility because it proves you are not only grossly immature, but also allow emotions to rule your decision-making. You are unable to engage in any meaningful debate. So while I can easily shoot down every point you make, it would be lunacy on my part to bother.

And it also speaks volumes about the character of anyone who adds a check mark to the posts of someone like yourself.

This happens every so often, I wish Obama would stop giving away money because we are going to need it and no one ever helps the USA when we are in trouble, When Kennedy was president he started a 7 year grain reserve program to cover this type of disaster what became of that did someone give away our reserves? India has mountains of grain piled up and rotting maybe we can make fuel out of that, looking at the corn crops that only half developed, can still be used for ethanol so that really should not impact fuel. as for food well you are all to fat anyways go on a diet, now as for all the Al Gore followers do you still want to breach all the dams that we built to hold the water in the first place. there's no hope for this country its to divided to function any more. yep the O Mighty is going to dry it out and set it ablaze. you know man is to blame yes we contribute about 3% now where does the other 97% come from? not nature or any thing like that, I know its like the idiot in a previous post said its people with smart phones versus cell phones having to charge them longer, damn why could we not see this coming. I can't believe I'm stuck on this rock with these Idiots, $hit happens live with it. what you need to do is prepare for times like this, because its going to happen every few decades, and it can last for several years, whiningand crying and pointing fingers wont prevent it, what might help is if those piss ants grow up and deal with it. you think this little 20 to 30 year drought is bad wait till the hundred year drought hits its due in about 20 years or less. maybe we can blame this on a president take your pick which one Bush for not telling Obama to read the Farmers Almanac or Obama for just not reading the Farmers Almanac. one thing we have established is its a drought year.

Physicist-retired.....

Your tactics of cut and run are eroding my respect for you. I am realizing a pattern of neglegence when a response does not suit your Liberal gravitas.

....and pull the article...well played.

Give it a restdoc Well the cornfields in Kansas,Nebraska and Iowa that are lost would cover NY 4 times over so unless you can make up enough crops to feed 310 million people We have a problem. To add to that the pasture land lost means trouble for ranchers and dairy farmers. Got a lot of ranches there too. So start putting cows in Central Park dude.

Another one that thinks that New York City is all that New York State has to offer.

Kornfed,

The article is still there, and you still haven't read it.

I've no interest at all in discussing something with a person who refuses to read the information provided. I have no experience with that sort of mindset, not do I care to have. Simply put, an uninformed 'opinion' is meaningless in a scientific discussion.

Roy, once again you assume way to much in the time and cost that government policy adds to development,(with no legitimate backing, except The Chamber of Commerce, Heritage, Cato, and all Republican /Conservative "think tanks"). You are one political hack at ANY subject.

Indiana is one State that has depended on Coal as a major part of their Electric supply because the cost was less. Now they are playing catch-up with many of their neighbors who had the foresight to develop other means of clean electricity. This had nothing to do with Federal regulations, Indiana decided to fore go the cost to the consumer until now. Electric rate increases of 40% are not unheard of. Natural gas ,solar and wind Plants in neighboring States have lessened the dramatic increases, and lessened the pollution.

It is up to the State's to enforce regulatory rules, and if they do not or are lazy, the consumer pays in the long run. Indiana by the way is a Conservative/Republican legislated State.

I see the same problem with the implementation of A.H.A. by Republican States, as their political leadership will not accept funds and implement rules because they want to "dummy down their constituents", as to the long term benefits of progressive laws. Contrary to their political objective.

Perfect example, the implementation of CFL bulbs in Wis., Ill, with incentives from government to the electric company's, far surpasses Indiana's meager attempts. Each bulb more than 1/2's the power used. Yet Indiana's Electric Co-operatives are now on a campaign to stop further reduction in pollutants released by their antiquated equipment.

The ball does not stop at the Federal level but is much more dependent on State level, and the Republicans/Conservatives fail to acknowledge that, as they have for many years...West Virginia, coal mining laws were so lax that the Feds. had to step in because of inaction on the State level.

Illinois has a huge supply of dirty coal, yet they stopped the use for the betterment of their people's health, and enviornment. Now Illinois rates are less than Indiana for electricity, with out the hazards.

David Walker

Killroy:

It is very excellent that you realize that we have a problem. Unfortunately, it is unwise to not allow water to flow to the oceans. We are between a rock and a hard place. As it happens, the Mississippi River drains great portions of the central U.S. Sadly that water is loaded with pollutants, not the least of which are nitrates

Mr.Walker

I never said to stop all the water, (just some of it) there is far to much to do that during a flood. And yes there are pollutants in that water as you say. But there are ways to remove them from the water as they do in sewage treatment plants. To reuse that water elsewhere. I was suggesting that the build these reservoirs to take advantage of all that flood water. When I lived in Sacramento Ca. in the late 60's on the ranch we stayed had concrete reservoirs with walls about 4.5 feet high by a 100 feet long. They filled theirs with well water not flood water. I see no reason that the same could not be done with the flood waters. Just have to do a Little more filtering and neutralization and reverse osmosis to that water. No I am not a water treatment chemist or have much training in that field. I just believe that it is worth looking into and I think it is not that hard to give it a try. If we can desalinate sea water and sewage water how hard can it be to filter out flood waters?? but like I said I am no chemist or water treatment expert but I like your post and what you said. I mean if they want to drag icebergs across the ocean to have water, what is cheaper?

What is the hourly rate to troll right wing ideas?

Hopefully, whomever is paying you is providing medical insurance and retirement plans.

C'mon, working for the right, He's lucky if he gets toilet breaks, but I think he was being sarcastic.

Read about the turn of the century labor conditions, that is the GOP agenda.

And probably Mitt Romney's agenda, too.

I recognized the sarcasm, Kevin.

The UN and the anti-American left really hit a home run with global warming. In one fell swoop, they found a phenomenon that can cause intense heat, extreme cold, unemployment, racism, droughts, down-pours, blizzards, hurricanes, eating disorders, tornadoes, inflation, deficits, rising oceans, sagging boobs, dying polar bears, earthquakes, tsunamis, homelessness, depression and the common cold.

Relying on solutions from Washington, in fact, may be the very thing that generates dangerous unintended consequences. If you think politicians will help you get ahead then you'll be less likely to take action on your own to make yourself better off.

What politicians and policymakers really ought to be telling struggling Americans is this: You're on your own. The government is running out of money and is borderline dysfunctional besides. Instead of new policies that will make the economy more fair, we need more self-sufficient workers who aren't looking to government for answers.

Right off of MSN Money.

Funny!

How do you people continuously turn nature and other non-political issues into political ones? Is your focus in life really that narrow? We get it, Republicans are evil and Democrats are bitter little people that were abused as children. Who cares? All you people do all day is lie about the other side in failed attempts to look intelligent.

Lets see, when Katrina hit you global warming clowns said be prepared for more frequent and stronger storms, has not happened since and their frequency have declined. Last years tornadoes and again it was climate change because there are too many people leaving carbon footprints. Drought comes this year and it is again climate change. I seem to see a pattern here, every time some big weather event happens it is automatically called global warming/climate change. Oh yeah and the Colorado wildfires was climate change too. You people are no better than the fanatic religious ones saying Jesus is returning on such and such a date then change it when it does not happen. Tell me something Kevin and the rest of you who believe this, WHAT have you given up to reduce your carbon footprint? What have you changed in your lifestyle to help? Nothing? I thought so.

Yes. you can explain each one of these away individually. The real problem is that in order to explain global warming, you have to explain statistics and that apparently seems too hard for the average climate denier to grasp.

Gotta love the clowns who say, "what have you done to counter climate change" when their corporate masters massively fund anything that denies incentives such as solar hot water heaters.

Amazingly the funding for arguments against climate change are...........energy companies. Imagine that!

Road Warrior-252445

The UN and the anti-American left really hit a home run with global warming. In one fell swoop, they found a phenomenon that can cause intense heat, extreme cold, unemployment, racism, droughts, down-pours, blizzards, hurricanes, eating disorders, tornadoes, inflation, deficits, rising oceans, sagging boobs, dying polar bears, earthquakes, tsunamis, homelessness, depression and the common cold.

Approximate World Population represented by the United Nations: 7,021,836,029

Approximate Number of Republicans in the USA: 55,000,000

Approximate Percentage of Climate Scientists who believe Global Climate Change has human component: 98%

Approximate Percentage of Climate Scientists who do not believe Global Climate Change has human component: 2%

Human cost if you're wrong and we do nothing: possible extinction

Human cost if you're right and we reduce CO2 output: inconvenience

And your post is really the best you can do? Please step away from the keyboard and go get your FOX fix.

Never Stop Asking Questions: Trolls earn $4 a day and live in Mumbai. They promote pro-American ideas as non-Americans, just like the anti-American Chinese make our pro-American Olympic uniforms.

Ol_Doc: Wow. I am in awe at the logic of your post. Very nice job. But since you didn't use a "$" sign, deniers won't understand.

Lynyrdsky, there are many of us who have changed our lifestyle to reduce our carbon footprint, but you don't wait for a response, you sit in your little hole and complain this is all a hoax. Well the solar panels on my roof reduce my carbon footprint and I sell the excess to my Public Utilities, however it gives me little relief in costs. I do this becuase it helps. I no longer drive to work, but ride my bike. I do this not for exercise but because it helps. I bought Cisterns to store rain water for my gardens that grow the fruit and vegetables my family eats, giving the rest to neighbors and Food banks, because every little bit helps.

What do you do?

So what you're saying Ol_Doc, is that 0.78% of the worlds populations is holding the other part hostage in denying global climate change, and stopping any meaningful discussion on it.

They threaten the world, and at the same time believe they are going to be saved by a higher power.

Sad how they take the words of talk show hosts over those of real climate scientist. If you can't take someones word for it, look up the data. It is overwhelming. You'd have to be a fruitfly to not get it.

At some future point when there is massive crop failure and many people start to starve pointing fingers won't feed anyone.

A disaster is coming folks. It may take awhile but it is inevitable unless some serious changes are made. Since those changes cost money, we're doomed. People are too short-sighted.

Taishmoser - Yes. It would appear they believe that their invisible, omnipotent, mythological deity will miraculously (I mean...how else) deliver them and their home-schooled progeny from what's left of our world after they plunder every ounce of profit available. I'm quite sure their invisible, omnipotent, mythological deity will reward them for their stewardship of his/her/it's creation. He'll probably reward them by converting them into 72 virgins for his other worthy children.

Common Sense Ed

A disaster is coming folks. It may take awhile but it is inevitable unless some serious changes are made. Since those changes cost money, we're doomed. People are too short-sighted.

Nope...the guy with the most high caliber rounds wins.

Worst drought since 1988

Did global warming take a 24-year vacation to cool off?

What's funny is the climatologists are mostly physics majors who couldn't get a job on the weather channel and latched onto a gravy train of endless grants from people like George Soros as long as they crank out data supporting global warming and hiding negative data as Dr. Phil Jones at the University of East Anglia had admitted. If you talk to people in any other scientific field, very few go along with the man-made global climate warming change nonsense. Your typical global warming worshipper are liberal arts majors with little technical background who get their information from Wikipedia.

Road Warrior-252445 - Yep there's a fortune to be made by selling Global Climate Change. I'm glad we have an objective, facts driven group of people on the other side of the issue. People who couldn't possibly find financial gain in denying Global Climate Change. Folks like Charles and David Koch (you know...Koch Industries).

Road Warrior?...really? I'm thinking Corporate Toady, or Shell Shill, or perhaps Exon-Mobile-Mouth.

PS. Even Wikipedia indicates a minimal amount of intellectual curiosity...as opposed to a FOX News clone.

Road Warrior, you amaze me. You should be thankful for global warming as it gets you closer to your dystopian namesake.

Lemme guess - you're the guy with the chaps holding the leash of your bitch?

LOL. Good luck, buddy!

enuf-uuu

Road Warrior, you amaze me. You should be thankful for global warming as it gets you closer to your dystopian namesake.

Lemme guess - you're the guy with the chaps holding the leash of your bitch?

LOL. Good luck, buddy!

I'm thinking he's the guy in the chaps...no pants with the leash around his neck.

Road Warrior, you have the right to iinsult anyone you want to; and, hey, if they disagree with you, they should be insulted, tight? But I do take offense at the insults and character assassination of scientists who you have never met and don't even know who or where they are. That is shameful.

Nobody has hidden data, much less committed any kind of fraud. I know you really need to believe that in order to support your own preconceived biases, but frankly it is getting very annoying.

I promise you that anthropogenic global warming is real, and eventually you will realize it, so in the meantime maybe you should consider not saying too many things you have to apologize for later.

ol doc...

Nice post of population numbers and scientific opinion. However it is a complete failure at connecting any dots. 55 million republicans have such an astounding impact via world policy vs a world population of 7 billion?

98% of scientist say that there is a human component to global warming? So what? Does that mean that humans affect 98% of the environmental changes? If so, we need a serious reduction in the 7 billion inhabiting this world.

BTW, if one were to look at a river flowing past you any changes upstream will effect the flow past you just as any changes downstream will also effect the flow past you. The point being that we all impact the world around us and that the vagaries of nature also changes regardless of human actions. Now what, fall back on the hockey stick argument?

Well all you liberals I'm sorry to tell you the drought is here now. This is the second time in my life. So if you have some miracle you better pull it out of your hat now or figure to pay higher food prices next year. And those mega farms you hate they will buy up the little guys who can't make it because you fought the crop insurance. This is what crop insurance covers- lost crops

It won't be nearly as bad as you think. Farmers are pumping the aquifers 24/7 here in Kansas. They'll make plenty of money. Of course, soon there won't be any water. If you're planning on praying about that, ask Rick Perry how that worked out.

David - This story is not about political or religious, why inject those here?

Yes, I hope this breaks soon enough to give them a productive year.

David, praying is an expression of spirit. Besides, there are not that many other ways to make it rain... :)

I come from a farming family and I know how it feels when crops fail.

It will rain again, but the rates of droughts will only go up. This is a political conversation because it is the republicans that have been stopping any meaningful discussion on what to do about these changes. At the very least they could make a contingency plan on how to deal with it. No, they choose blindfolds for their followers and reap what profits they can. Their motto: I've got mine!!

Water conservation in general is still very inadequate in most areas of our country. We need to hold more water inland, preventing it from running off to the sea. In turn that leads to more evaporation and eventually more rain. I have built a small one acre pond on my land many years ago and that pond has definitely helped to hold more water in the adjacent soils and created a better micro climate.

David-

Look at the drought monitor in Texas in 2011 (almost the whole state was "exceptional"), and look at it now. Houston is up more than 2 inches of rain than the average year, San Antonio is up over 6, Austin over 5. So..."ask Rick Perry how that worked out". Or, you could just ask me. I spent hours spraying thousands of dollars worth of hay with a water hose last year, because ashes started raining down from fires less than a mile away...this year, my parents yard is flooded, and has been for about 3 weeks.

:)

in the middle-2260511

David - This story is not about political or religious, why inject those here?

I can't believe just how wrong you actually are! This is absolutely about politics. Once upon a time it was about science. The Koch brothers and their ilk's money changed that. Just ask Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann (two people from whom I would certainly seek sage advice based on their scientific prowess). They'll be happy to tell you all about how much money the liberals will make off global climate change. Of course they won't mention how much the Koch brothers stand to gain from changing the discussion.

Jessicalc

David-

Look at the drought monitor in Texas in 2011 (almost the whole state was "exceptional"), and look at it now. Houston is up more than 2 inches of rain than the average year, San Antonio is up over 6, Austin over 5. So..."ask Rick Perry how that worked out". Or, you could just ask me. I spent hours spraying thousands of dollars worth of hay with a water hose last year, because ashes started raining down from fires less than a mile away...this year, my parents yard is flooded, and has been for about 3 weeks.

Well praise the lord...hallelujah! It's called climate change...(read: change). Do you read or just watch FOX news? Check out the forecasts for you part of the country...not encouraging. Oh yea, you'll have heat and drought like you've never seen before, but also life-altering storms. Perhaps Mr. Perry can pray you out of it...but I doubt it.

My neck of the woods looks as though it might not be hit quite so hard. Milder/drier winters, some drought, severe wildfires, little to no insect die-off in winter, decreased snowpack (won't be pretty here either). Good luck to Texas though, hope you at least made some money off the fossil fuel industry.

Ol_Doc:

Wow, aren't you a sweetheart? The forecasts for TX, especially Houston (my area), are wet as ever. It's been raining for weeks here. The south east has had much more rain than average years. Did I deny climate change? My whole point was that "ask Rick Perry how that worked out" is a moronic statement, considering we're looking a hell of a lot better than we were, and a hell of a lot better than most of the country.

Oh, and yes, NY does grow a lot of corn. Not as much as Indiana, but they grow their fair share. In fact, my work just flew in a bunch of it for a party this weekend. It's quite delicious, I recommend you try it.

Oh, I'm making PLENTY of money from the fossil fuel industry. We make valves that PREVENT rigs and natural gas lines from building too much pressure and blowing up, causing more pollution.

Have a good day. :)

in the middle wrote:

"David - This story is not about political or religious, why inject those here?"

If you really believe that, you aren't paying attention. Of course it's political. Is there or isn't there a law that protects frackers from ANYONE knowing what they're putting in the water? Is special tax treatment available for the production of ethanol from corn?

As far as religious? You must be joking. I stopped counting the acolytes of Invisoguy who spew the, "Don't worry. He's gonna fix everything." nonsense.

And Jessica - REALLY? Do you honestly not grasp the idiocy of flying corn to Texas? Who wonderfully efficient. Further, you really must learn the difference between sweet corn and feedstock for cattle and energy. Pray for enlightenment. Pray that you get a dictionary so you can learn the definition of stewardship. Invisoguy is big on that, I hear.

David-

Of course I know the difference between sweet corn and feedstock. What I said to Ol_Doc, is from another post I saw him make "Grow a lot of corn in NY?".

The corn was flown in because our company is based out of there, and it's for our customers, at a customer appreciation party. The corn is actually much much better than what we have here. It was flown in via FEDEX...no different than getting something you ordered online via "Next Day Air".

I will pray that you either learn to type, learn proper sentence structure and grammar, or even that you figure out what you were trying to say, because "Who wonderfully efficient" is nonsensical. I have plenty of enlightenment, thank you for your concern though.

I did see that you did not comment on the fact that you said "ask Rick Perry how that worked out", but yet we are doing so much better than last year, and far better than most of the country. Nothing to say about that? I'm not directly attributing the result to praying at all, it could be, but it could also be just the weather. I'm just pointing out the idiocy of saying that, when are in such a better situation right now.

Jessicalc - I wasn't talking about the "10 day forecast", but what the hell...believe what you want. As to corn in NY, yea, I get it; we grow it here in the Willamette Valley as well...but like NY, we won't make a dent in the loss in the Midwest.

And no...I'm not a sweetheart. I'm an old, retired Army Non-commissioned Officer with a very low BS tolerance level.

You have a nice day yourself!

Well, Ol_doc, as a 21 year old with great respect for those who have served our country, Thank you for your service.

I believe in climate change. I never denied it. The ONLY thing I was trying to get across, and I believe I originally had done so in a polite manner, is to say "ask Rick Perry how that worked out" is a really really stupid statement. If anything, it did nothing but do the opposite of what he wanted...we got rain. We are still getting rain. There is no indication that this season we will stop getting rain. Hurricane season is here. Next year may be a different story.

My point is, one year after Rick Perry prayed for rain, and the whole nation laughed and mocked us for it (which really, who did it harm praying for rain?), we are doing exponentially better. That's all. I'm not sure how my post can be considered BS, since all of the information I provided can be proved if you look it up.

I really hate typing things out sometimes. See, I'm actually quite nice, and when I say things like "Oh, and yes, NY does grow a lot of corn. Not as much as Indiana, but they grow their fair share. In fact, my work just flew in a bunch of it for a party this weekend. It's quite delicious, I recommend you try it.", trying to be sincere, people think I'm trying to be sarcastic or rude, but I'm not. I was serious when I said I recommend you try it. It's the best corn I've ever had.

Jessicalc

Word!

Give it a rest!

Jessicalc

Word!

Ohhhhhh...give it a rest...come get you some!

Here I am, I'm waiting for you... If you are too old to figure out what "word" means let me know. However, I don't believe that you are that old. Old people have no idea what "rotflmao" means.

Did I just piss in your cornflakes?

No...my mess kit, but I'm sure you're too young to know what that is.

You have a nice day.

Word.

PS, My grandfather and four great uncles served in WWII. My family has a long history of service, including the current engagements.

Old people do so know what "roflmao" means.
We sometimes even add an F, as in "roflmfao".
Don't be so hard on old people.
You may be one some day...

Oh boy, ol doc and david walker thinks that the politicians or koch brothers can make it rain. Wonder where their heads are buried?

Poor david walker even goes as far as discrediting the faith of others, while spouting off on the advantages of his own brand of faith. Sorry david you are still spouting off on your idea of religion is better than anothers.

american-2051576

Oh boy, ol doc and david walker thinks that the politicians or koch brothers can make it rain. Wonder where their heads are buried?

I'm curious as to where you got the impression I believe the Koch brothers can make it rain. Pissing on the American people is NOT making it rain. Perhaps your handle shouldn't be american-2051576, perhaps it should be corporate-2051576. Although I suspect you believe the words American and Corporate are synonymous.

Wouldn't doubt it for a second.

Paranoid Alex Jones follower?

Now that you are done posting the truth,myth or whatever and I'm done reading it, we can both stick our heads back in the sand and think "Cool" thoughts :)

ooooh....yeah much better now :) Got sand in my eyes though:(

Says the person who feels it can't be true. This is a hugely significant issue, there has been data all over the world taken, 99% of scientist in the field have sided on it happening and almost as many also side on that it is human exacerbated.

Pull your head out of the sand. You listen to politicians and talk show host over experts in the field? Their data is readily available on-line, do some research.

@Taishmoser,

Are you just ignorant or drunk? Both maybe? Are you familiar with skyking or myself? No I didn't think so.

Are you making stupid assumptions again and attacking blindly with zero information. Why yes you are.

Before you assume that someone is in denial and choose to be an A$$ do a little research yourself. Try taking the mouse and pointing the itty bitty cursor thingy over the "Targets" screen name. Then with it in your "Gun" sights right click the little mouse and choose open in new window. Then read little one. Just read.

Skyking was being Facetious - (not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark. or amusing; humorous) Snarky (look it up your damn self), Sarcastic (yeah this one too) and I was just doing the same and going with the post. I looked at Skyking's other posts before I made mine so as not to cause this kind of B.S. good job effing it up genius.

I was probably a member of Greenpeace and the Planetary Society since before you were born judging by your tone (see I can be a moron and assume things too). I'm wiiling to bet that I've talked to more experts at seminars than you have junior.

The second part regarding politicians and talk show hosts just increased your level of ignorance. I hope you wake up one morning in Vegas and find yourself married to Jabba The Rush's daughter.

I can be liberal in some areas and conservative in others. This issue transcends politics, religion and anything else for that matter. If we get Climate Change wrong I doubt that we get a second chance if we have one at all. Better to try and at least contain the situation besides I prefer to not just give in and go quietly into the night like a little @$#!%^

Taishmoser

Says the person who feels it can't be true. This is a hugely significant issue, there has been data all over the world taken, 99% of scientist in the field have sided on it happening and almost as many also side on that it is human exacerbated.

Pull your head out of the sand. You listen to politicians and talk show host over experts in the field? Their data is readily available on-line, do some research.

Ah..Ha! I caught one. Another of those liberal/socialist/communist lies! It's not 99%, it's 98% of scientists in the field...ya just cant trust them hippies...lol

Oh and Taish..........For the record if my reply to your post is to confusing:

Those Were Clown Comments Bro

Yeah, well this one might be. You might have to take off your blinders, though.

brian

Considering the first dust bowl was caused by man made global warming....oh wait.....

Your comment is closer to being right then wrong.

Considering the first dust bowl was caused by man made

It was cased by drought and what man did to the land.

"The phenomenon was caused by severe drought coupled with decades of extensive farming without crop rotation, fallow fields, cover crops or other techniques to prevent wind erosion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl

dumbster... what about the record floods all over asia russia this year...climate shifts happen all the time...hmm...and that fact that mars and other planets in our solar system are expericing a worm up has nothing to do with it (i guess there are cars there too)? ever though about weather being cyclical and affected by sun output intecity, earth tilt and orbit? Ever put the 2 and 2 together that ther aweath system i a lot more complex then a simple c02 levels.

"Not to metion the fact that CO2 absorbs IR, pushes an electron into a higher shell, where it emits the same IR, but less of it, in all directions when the electron returns to its lower shell, During this time, the molecule does not heat up. However, all gases radiate IR proporsional to their temperature. All 3 phases of water absorb IR, but only the liquid and sold phases heat up. The gas phase still follows the Bohr model above. Is the greenhouse gas effect a fairy-tale and man-made global warming a scam?

It's all about taxation and government regulation. Just the fact that Gore is the man behind this sham ought to be a clue(gores net worth icreased 5000% since he started the global warming crusaide)...

But for the clueless they ought to try a little real science. It makes it pretty clear. CO2 levels rise as a result of temperature rise, not the cause.

The hockey stick graph is used to incite fear so that we will say, "Yes big Brother, I see that this is a problem I need you to help me with. Yes of course I'll pay a tax. If we don't threaten people with high costs we will not be able to ensure compliance and the world will come to an end, so I will gladly pay your tax to save the world."

If the agenda does advance as far as martial law herding people off to FEMA camps, these bozos who fell for the lies ought to get on the first train.

Sorry... I've had a long day of reading comments on a few sites from completely ignorant people who need to turn off their tv's and turn on their brains instead, so I'm not feeling as diplomatic as usual."

Head...Sand... Stick in and Ignore.

When will everyone realize there is a problem? when the water supplies dry up?

andrey

hmm...and that fact that mars and other planets in our solar system are expericing a worm up has nothing to do with it (i guess there are cars there too)?

No they don't have cars. But they (mars) have global dust storms that hold in the heat of the sun. Does earth have global dust storms too? NO. Earth just has global pollution caused by man. Try to go and read what nasa has said about the other planets warming up. Instead of the right wing nuts interpretation of what they said. You just may learn something.

yes pick one part of my argument and make it fit the sheep c02 THEORY. And yes i
did read original nassa published papers on this, not the news bids you are
reffering too. No one at NASA wants to be the first to say the sun is at least
a part of the problem, you cant tax that, we cant controll that. Oh and by the
way no one ever said moving away from fossil fuels is a bad idea, it’s a very
good idea, yet somehow after 20 years of "real" talk about going
green we still burring nothing but fossil fuels and continently plan to tax
them aka tax YOU and ME, bc the cost will trickle down to the end consumer.

While we certainly have an affect (and we should try to minimize that), at least a large part of what we see is normal climate variation. For the dust bowl, poor farming practices caused most of the dust blowing around, but the drought came on its own.

As far as this summer is going- we got lucky here today. We got a little rain this morning (still lots of cracks in the ground though), and have been cloudy most of the day. We're even only a few degrees above average for our high today!

I have an idea. Instead of bickering about flawed and impossible to prove theories, why don't one of you experts do something productive like start a web site and start taking donations for the farm families impacted by these conditions? Or, you could research growing crops under dry conditions so we can be better prepared for these issues.

Come on and do it. Surely, since you have all the answers you could have it done today, right?

But, no, that would be productive.

I'll add to that bickering comment. Why don't we all stop fighting and start doing our part to be better stewards of our planet? Why do we have to wait for a disaster to happen? Man influence or not why is it bad if we try to develop alternative energy sources? What so big coal and oil will lose their power and control? So consumers will have more control? So we can jump start a whole new industry and get more jobs? I'm just tried of people fighting. If we are or aren't causing issues conserving more energy and doing things to take better care of our planet is still a win win. Doesn't mean drop FF's tomorrow but does mean making good investments now so we can get the technology where it needs to be and ween ourselves off FF's. That's my question. Yes there are some economics with it and costs right now are high for some stuff but that will change the more we develop the technology. The biggest problem is it has become so political its almost hopeless trying to get anyone to at least work together on the issue now and those who have the money are doing what they can to keep that flow of money coming in. The fact is climate is changing, and if we do not adapt, which means using other energy sources and looking for ways to be more sustainable and use less resource we are going to be in deep $hit. So why not make some changes now before it gets to late?

It is time

*start taking donations for the farm families impacted by these conditions*

Why?? I'm sure these stalwart citizens from the "conservative" heartland of the good 'ole US of A will be petitioning the Feds for some sort of Government help...bank on it. :)

Socialize the losses and privatize the gains...

Hey thanks for the reference but you might notice I made no mention of man made soil destruction.

Thanks though.

What if all those that say Climate Change is caused by humans just give in and decide its caused by nature instead (since the right now admits change is occuring but believe that its cyclical)? Then can we all get along and work together?

WTF CARES WHATS" causing it. It could be both and we are the proverbial straw that broke the Camel's back. Its obvious that we won't deal well with the weather changes as a society, physically or economically. So shouldn't the question be how can we interfere with whatever is occuring and mitigate the damage and eventually maybe reverse it. No one side is likely to succeed on their own and second place is probably just as bad as last place. Besides anything less than a win is never acceptable anyway.

It Is Time................Ummmm "Hey what are you doing the next 4 years" :)

andrey

And yes i did read original nassa published papers on this, not the news bids you are
reffering too

I wasn't referring too anything other than nasa it's self. As I stated in my comment. Unlike you. Your comments were right out of the gop/flox no news handouts. Here I will give you the link so you can really read it. Or you can go back and put your head in the sand again and try to bulls@it others.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/2007/marswarming.html

tmc...using that logic, I suppose we just let the next Katrina type victims deal with it themselves too. We should not send supplies, and invite them into our communities and homes?

Why do you hate conservatives, have you met all of them? Impressive.

You logic goes something like this:

"There was once a wildfire caused by a lightning strike; therefore, this wildfire was not caused by human beings but by a lightning strike."

Brilliant.

I wish. Just not old enough. Believe me I honestly think I could do better (can't do any worse). But man o man, I would have to bring one massive shovel to clean up the mess that been created over the last 40+ years. Wanna help?

Thanks though :)

in the middle-2260511 - *Why do you hate conservatives, have you met all of them? Impressive*

Hate conservatives?? That's a pretty long leap of logic to make off my post...

I don't hate conservatives at all......I hate hypocrites.

It Is Time,

Ya need a whole bunch of those shovels and some pressure washers to clean off the stench of things as well. Judging by your comments I think you would do very well indeed. I wish that I could help as well. As sh!t storm jobs can be awesome and Washington has the Perfect Storm brewing (kinda like our very own Jupiter's Red Spot:) To much baggage on my end though there is still things that can be done locally and such.

I look forward to reading your posts in the future and what year will you be running Mr. President? :)

tmc - not that long of a leap in logic. "I hate hypocrites." Now, I know that not all hypocrites are conservatives, but you have to look long and far to find a conservative who isn't a hypocrite. "Government needs to stop giving all those lazy bums a handout. What, me? No...I have a genuine hardship."

Andrey Andre'y

It's all about taxation and government regulation. Just the fact that Gore is the man behind this sham ought to be a clue(gores net worth icreased 5000% since he started the global warming crusaide)...

And who is the man behind the financing of the scientists (all 2 % of them) who deny a human component to global climate change? Come on, you can say his name...it's easy, only four little letters. Come on Andrey...say it.

in the middle-2260511

tmc...using that logic, I suppose we just let the next Katrina type victims deal with it themselves too. We should not send supplies, and invite them into our communities and homes?

"...and so many of the people in the arenas here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this (as she chuckles slightly) is working very well for them." - Barbra Bush

The remarks generated controversy. In 2006, it was revealed that Barbara Bush donated an undisclosed amount of money to the Bush–Clinton Katrina Fund on the condition that the charity do business with an educational software company owned by her son Neil Bush.

Conservative Humanitarianism is absolutely remarkable.

... During this time, the molecule does not heat up.

That misses the point. When molecules absorb thermal radiation that was headed from the ground to space, and radiate part of that energy back to the ground, it causes warming. The Earth is over 50 deg F warmer with the greenhouse effect than it would be without it.

Thanks Howard. I will try not to disappoint. Not always right and maynot always agree (I don't deny that) but most importantly I try hard to cut thru the BS, stay away from any party specific kool aide, and use a little common sense and practicality.

See ya on the vine

I guess you must be having dreams. I haven't heard ANYONE denying that the weather has/is changing.

Tune into Fux News when they cycle the same five 'scientist' on to tell you that the presecne of 6 billion people on the planet has NOTHING to do with the climate change...

So rick: They ARE saying there is climate change?

skyking says, people are saying it's NOT changing.

Everyone I've heard says it's changing. The argument is what is causing it to change.

Rick, you're delusional, and a bit immature. But hey, whatever floats your boat Dick......I mean Rick.

Fox is not afraid to give their opposition air time, and no one is saying that the population is not contributing to these issues..

@in the middle-2260511,

Pssst! You shill is showing.

in the middle of what? Are you denying that there have been psuedo scientists on Fux claiming this is all natural or are you too dense to understand the point that they trot out the 1% who think climate change is bunk...I never see the other 99% on Faux News for nitwits...

Arizona, a lot of people are still denying the climate is changing, and others have moved on to deny we have anything to do with it. Some have even given that up and gone onto denying we can do anything about it. The funniest part is when they get confused as to which part they are denying, and it gets all mixed up.

in the middle-2260511

Fox is not afraid to give their opposition air time, and no one is saying that the population is not contributing to these issues..

Horsecrap! If you have 10 USAF Generals all warning the US President they've detected incoming ICBMs, and one who says "Na...don't worry about it, it's an atmospheric phenomena." Are you going to give that one General's opinion the same weight as the other 10? Apparently if you're FOX News you do. If 98% of scientists say one thing and 2% say another; giving the 2% argument the same weight is NOT FAIR AND BALANCED...it's all FOX'd up!

Perhaps you should water your lawn.

At least you were doing it in your yard. Some geniuses are out there starting fires in the national forests.

You were tossing smoke bombs and sparklers around the yard in these dry conditions? With your kid, no less? Brilliant.

Wow...just wow...

That is an out & out LIE.

I've hauled water to many well sites for fracking. 10 to 15 tanks. Each tank = 400 barrels. Each barrel = 42 gallons.

Get someone, (not stoned), to help you figure the total gallons.

Arizona - depending on the well it varies. Some do use alot more than others but I think the greater point is we have major water shortages and is using it to get gas the better option? Then the water is contaminated and can't be used again for the most part.

I'm all for alternative energy but I also understand we have to use FF's in the short term, not going away overnight, and of those natural gas is the best option. But we do have to be 100% sure we aren't screwing up needed water whether its what they use to drill or during the drilling itself and contaminate even more sources. Fracking can be done cleanly as long as the driller follow the rules, some do but many also don't and that's the problem. My understanding is there are some potential new technologies that will further clean up fracking and greatly reduce the water usage just whether or not drillers will adopt (when ethically they should) or go with the status quo.

The way I see it is in a time like this we are wasting good water (can't drink gas) no different than we are wasting energy that could be for food crops but instead making ethanol. Both ways we further strain two essential things we need to live, clean water and food. To make something that strains the other main thing, clean air. Not to bright if you ask me.

It is time

Arizona, that's up to 252K gallons. Do I get a prize?

Ugg, so am I hearing that it is now the oil companies that are causing the problem now? My god people. The solution to every problem only creates another problem. Seriously, even large wind farms are now causing higher temperature recordings. I think our population has reached critical mass, and nothing short of a catostrophic event will fix it.

Astronauts are the only ones that can remove water from this planet. ALL water can be recycled. All water has been recycled.

In natural evaporation, ONLY water will rise to the skies. Fracking water remains about 8000 feet down. The government requires the holes be filled back up, when we remove the gas/oil. The water that does come back up, in returned to the bottom again.

The bull-chit you've heard about fracking, is just THAT.

Do you believe, the water you are drinking today has not been drank before? Or that it won't be drank again?

In 2010, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimated that 70 to 140 billion gallons of water are used to fracture 35,000 wells in the United States each year. This is approximately the annual water consumption of 40 to 80 cities each with a population of 50,000. Fracture treatments in coalbed methane wells use from 50,000 to 350,000 gallons of water per well, while deeper horizontal shale wells can use anywhere from 2 to 10 million gallons of water to fracture a single well. The extraction of so much water for fracking has raised concerns about the ecological impacts to aquatic resources, as well as dewatering of drinking water aquifers.

Arizona Tumbleweed

That is an out & out LIE.

I've hauled water to many well sites for fracking. 10 to 15 tanks. Each tank = 400 barrels. Each barrel = 42 gallons.

Get someone, (not stoned), to help you figure the total gallons.

And how much of that water is usable after the fracking chemicals (propitiatory formula) are added? And what do the companies do to clean it up? And how do they clean up the contaminated water table?

doc: All of it. Please read #11.4

Mother nature has a way of recycling water. It's called evaporation. A lot of oil field water is put into evaporation ponds. The same process as used by your sewage plant.

Some oil field water is pumped down into dry wells, about 8000 feet deep. Well below the drinking water table. This is done to fill the holes caused by the removal of gas/oil.

In the course of pumping oil/gas out of the ground, water is brought to the surface. This water has been down there for as long as the oil. The oil companies separate it and put it into tanks or ponds at the well site. My job was to go out there and get it. I then took it to a waste station where it was FILTERED, and then pumped back into the ground.

Too bad the USA comprises only 5% of the world's population but consumes 25% of its resources.

Oh...don't worry, that'll change. We're rapidly headed for 3rd world status. None of the countries in the 3rd world consume that massive amount of resources, and we're headed there.

Education: Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math.

Income Equity: 42nd

Health Care: 37th

Infant Mortality: 30th

Life Expectancy: 49th

Upward Mobility: 9th out of 12 industrial nations

See, we're moving in the right direction. Another generation and the middle class will be living in mud huts eating boiled manioc root and grubs...ummm.

doc: You are assuming ALL of us are stupid and unable to adapt.

Hi, I'm David Koch and I approve this message.

A group of Conservatives wanted to prove climate change wasn't real. Their study confirmed that it was. They tried to bury the report. This was funded by the Koch brothers.

Only the deranged and those that would have their businesses affected deny or lie about it.

If you have enough money you can buy the truth.

I'm amazed when some think climate change can be solved over a three year period when it has been many years in the making. Man made or natural something better be done soon.

They dems did not have a super majority...they still needed some republcian to step forward but they all fell in lickstep with their leadership

Rick...are you for real? Legislation is passed by a majority vote. If the Democrats have the majority in both the House and Senate and the President is a Democrat..........get it?

Holy christ.

@turnipseed

Only the US Constitution requires a majority vote to pass legislation. The Senate has decided not to follow the US Constitution and is requiring a SUPER majority of 60 votes to pass legislation. Gridlock.

Every single Senator should be impeached, every one.

Gridlock is much better than a single party Democrats or Republicans ramming whatever the hell they want through with no checks or balances.

Checks and balances........they are called elections.

So your answer is disregard the US Constitution?

Holy Sky Zombie.

Try again Brian..its takes 60 votes in the senate to go to the bathroom...the dems were never there...the point about any single party rule is well taken though...

Cap and trade was a bipartisan idea until the GOP turned into the GNOP. It was filibustered. All climate change legislation is blocked.

Brian Turnipseed

Rick...are you for real? Legislation is passed by a majority vote. If the Democrats have the majority in both the House and Senate and the President is a Democrat..........get it?

Holy christ.

Holy Christ is right Brian...you know absolutely nothing about the United States Government, specifically the Congress! Ever heard of the Filibuster?

Since 2006, the number of cloture motions filed has exploded, from 68 just four years ago to at least 132 motions in the 111th Congress, according to Senate statistics.

Since you are going to lecture others on inner workings of the Legislative Branch, perhaps you should consider a remedial US Civics class...if the right wing hasn't removed them all!

The Demo's have not proposed any climate change legislation.

Wally-1853299

The Demo's have not proposed any climate change legislation.

Ah, isn't that nice. Another Republican utilizing doublespeak to rewrite (sorry, reorient) history. Hey slick, ever hear of Cap and Trade? ...it was a huge climate change proposal!

Oh, sorry you must have missed that decade.

Shhhh.... Don't give them any ideas!

Seriously, don't.

The trend will continue, when it starts to get bad and not just inconvenient, migration will likely go north over time.

Hey...keep that stuff quiet. We may all end up moving to Vancouver (and I don't mean Washington). Don't want to tip off the Canucks.

Now THERE'S a neat theological conundrum. If God only answers prayers that are his will, the event prayed for would occur without prayer... because it was His will all along. Prayer, however fervent and frequent, will not bring about any result unless God ALREADY made up his mind to do it. I will pray for the wisdom to understand this.

God I love conundrums. Ok, if prayer works that would mean God is open to suggestion; which in turn would mean God isn't really omnipotent; which would suggest he really isn't God. Or it could mean he is a mean little boy with an ant farm and a magnifying glass and likes to hear humans grovel; which in turn would explain a lot.

lol

Water at $95-$110 a gallon sounds about right.

Well Rick, you have to understand that these morons don't believe in ANY science soooooooo.

Kinda like expecting a monkey to learn heart surgery!....

You are not going to convince them by stating FACTS.

That's why everyone laughs at them, and they are even too stupid to notice THAT.

You didn't mention the 1.5 trillion tons of methane trapped in the arctic tundra. Methane is 25 times the greenhouse gas vs. carbon dioxide. Once all this methane is released into the air, that is when true runaway global warming will occur. Life on this earth will be devestated by this effect. The human species may or may not survive.

"Current methane release has previously been estimated at 0.5 Mt per year. Shakhova et al (2008) estimate that not less than 1,400 Gt of Carbon is presently locked up as methane and methane hydrates under the Arctic submarine permafrost, and 5-10% of that area is subject to puncturing by open taliks. They conclude that "release of up to 50 Gt of predicted amount of hydrate storage [is] highly possible for abrupt release at any time". That would increase the methane content of the planet's atmosphere by a factor of twelve."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_methane_release

I promise everyone it is going to be your worst nightmare if we don't do something major VERY FAST to stop global warming!

I'm in. What should we do?

Based on an interview with Igor Semiletov, a professor at the International Arctic Research Centre in Alaska, the article details how his research has found large 'plumes' of methane bubbling up from the sea bed of the Arctic ocean:

"This is the first time that we've found continuous, powerful and impressive seeping structures, more than 1,000 metres in diameter. It's amazing," Dr Semiletov said. "I was most impressed by the sheer scale and high density of the plumes. Over a relatively small area we found more than 100, but over a wider area there should be thousands of them."

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2011/12/drop-the-methane-bomb

Brian, we can buy ourselves time by locating a reliable volcano (Hawaii?), and then dump large amounts of sulfur into it, while at the same time heating the rising volcano plume with large nuclear powered arrays of lasers from below, and also using large orbital solar mirrors in geosynchronous orbit to heat this same rising volcano plume from above. This will send these sulfur compounds high up into the stratosphere, which in turn will give us the same ability to cool our global climate in much the same way that super volcanoes do. In the meanwhile we need to put this valuable time to good use with a massive global building project to build large solar energy arrays and large geothermal energy projects around our world, while at the same time building thousands of hybrid nuclear / thermonuclear power plants worldwide, which can not only use large natural resources and large stockpiles of breeder fuels Thorium and U-238, but which can also burn up most nuclear waste for future energy production, too. We also need to convert the world over to electric and methane fuel based cars as well, while also generating synthetic fuels (primarily methanol and biofuels) for home and commercial / industrial heating purposes, too. Finally we need to install solar energy on every house on the planet in one form or another, while also developing low cost super insulations at the same time. There are actually a thousand and one projects which can augment all of this, but these are the major projects which we need to devote ourselves to right now. - Rick Carter

Well Rick Carter, just what do you propose to do to mitigate this alleged threat? Right now you seem to be in the grip of a sever attack of hysteria. Counseling is recommended.

Sounds like the future is just going to be AWFUL!

Brian-1075075

I promise everyone it is going to be your worst nightmare if we don't do something major VERY FAST to stop global warming!

I'm in. What should we do?

I'm glad you asked...
1. Perform an IRS audit on Koch Industries with the back taxes going to alternative fuel development.
2. Tell Rush Limbaugh to STFU
3. Tell Glen Beck to STFU
4. Tell Michele Bachmann to resign and STFU
5. Tell the rest of the Tea Party to resign and STFU
6. Tell Grover Norquist he's fired
7. Tell everyone who signed his pledge, they're fired
8. Tell Al Gore to send us the memo and STFU

9. Tell Wally-1853299 to STFU

Well, I think that would do for a start.

Bull-chit. We don't need your help.

Tumblweed,,,, careful what you say.

Increasingly it is still raining, but it is so hot that either most or all of the rain evaporates before it reaches the Earth. But eventually it comes down in torrents once it builds up so much, which in turn causes massive floods. - RC

Nice hypothesis, but the relative humidity generally reaches the dew point every night. Any moisture in the air should drop out as the temperature drops to the dew point. You have not explained why the moisture shifts to other regions.

You dummies really don't have a clue as to how weather works do you Road Warrior and Rick Carter. Too funny! LOL!

The weather moves by means of the upper winds and the Jet Stream. But you would not understand that so I won't waste time trying to explain it.

Saddam Hussein learn the technique from us. It's called reverse osmosis. We already have a RO plant in Tampa and one San Diego producing fresh drinking water from salt water. Chicken little will always see the sky falling.

Clearly desalinating and shipping enough water from the ocean to mitigate a drought covering 80% of the country is a sustainable endevour. A few billion trips will clear this up and no one will have to do anything silly like address climate change! Hell, so what if the country becomes a wasteland. I'm sure the free market will work itself out and the best part is, we can just keep doing whatever we want and have our grandkids fight over the scraps.

//sarcasm