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“I’m not hiding from this anymore,” Charlie Rogers of Lincoln, Neb., told KETV in Omaha.
Rogers told police three masked men broke into her home early Sunday, bound her wrists and ankles with zip ties, beat her and carved anti-gay slurs into her arms and abdomen.
The men also allegedly spray-painted a derogatory term for lesbians inside the home and tried to set it on fire, in what police in Lincoln, Neb., are investigating as a hate crime. Rogers told police she was targeted because she’s gay.
Lincoln police so far have no suspects, Officer Katie Flood told NBC News, leading some to question whether Rogers made it all up. Rogers says the doubters are making her a victim all over again.
“Being a victim in situation like this or a survivor and then having your integrity questioned, I guess, it feels very victimizing again,” Rogers said. “It makes an already difficult situation more difficult because my world has been changed forever by these events.”
Rogers said she hasn’t spoken publicly about her attack because she doesn’t want to affect the police investigation, but she says she wants her own voice to be heard.
“I understand that people sort of have a hard time wrapping their heads around the things that have happened, as do I,” Rogers said. “But I’m a person with feelings, with concerns. For people to think that this doesn’t happen here, it does. It did.”
"We are investigating all aspects of the case, including the possibility that it is a false report," Flood said. "This type of evaluation is not uncommon and is necessary in completing an investigation. This is a complex case that takes time. At this time, investigators are aggressively pursuing all leads in the case."
Rogers was a standout basketball player at the University of Nebraska, and she says she’s an avid volunteer and a small-business owner.
Vigils in multiple Nebraska cities were organized in the days following her attack and more are planned, though Rogers says she won’t be attending them because she’s still in hiding.
“I could never thank them in a way that I feel adequately expresses how much it has meant to me that people are standing with me and people are standing for me,” Rogers said. “ There is fear, but there is resilience. There is forward.”
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Lady, get a weapon, and when they invade your house next time - waste them, like the garbage they are...
It's time the so-called "leaders" of this country and it's churches to stand up and say "enough". Whatever your personal beliefs are this mob mentality has got to stop.
Unfortunately it is the church leaders that are encouraging this behavior.
yet another drama queen with a made-up story to draw "attention" to themselves. They are all such "victims"
Timothy you are the problem not the solution.
Sure Timothy she put herself out there in a very conservative state, leaving open to more hate crime but you call it being a drama queen.
Your family should be so lucky to have a person with that kind of courage. You certainly don't possess it.
This story sounds very fishy to me. Her statements make it seem like she is pushing an agenda rather than fighting for the truth.
For those of you that condemn Christian leaders, hardly. Most Christians live by the rule of hate the sin, LOVE the sinner. There are gay people that belong to my parish. We welcome them and allow the Holy Spirit to work in their minds and hearts. Happened to me!:)
granitejon,
I don't know of any Bible believing church that would encourage such an act. In fact they typically teach to hate sin but love the person and pray for them. We are all sinners and all need to be forgiven.
Timothy, this woman was always an active, exemplary citizen so I highly doubt she made up this story for whatever reason. I'm sure the police has enough clues to think that this event really took place. Lincoln, NE is not exactly a liberal town and I'm sure it has enough gay haters with too much time on their hands to do something like that.
Agree, I can not stand homosexuals, but in this case she was in her home, she needs to purchase a gun and shoot to kill and if they are only wounded shoot them again, that way no trial.
The question of whether it was faked or setup is for the police to investigate and decide upon, not the general public. Until they have investigated it thoroughly and announce the findings it is incumbent for us to beleive her and help her through this trying time. There are too many cynics out there that just love to play devils advocate without any regard for their opinions. Not only is Tim an idiot for his comments but so is granitejon...not sure which church he is going to that is preaching this kind of hatred but not all churches are doing that. We too often like to stereotype people...Republicans as hate mongering, poor hating, bible toting, tax evading, gun loving rednecks or Democrats as tree hugging, non tax paying, free loading anti religion idiots. Unfortunately the rhetoric is getting worse every year and there is a growing divide in this country. We were so close to coming together as a country after 9/11 but politics did its best to trash all of that within a year. Good luck to this young woman and I hope that they treack down the idiots that did it.
Tether: I'm a very liberal person that belongs to a very conservative church (what can I say -- blue person, red state), and I can tell you that most people in my church will 'SAY' love the sinner but despise them to death. And if I bring up that Jesus would show compassion to homosexuals and that we should be like Jesus, I usually get a shocked response.
Sorry, but conservative churches do not and would not support homosexuals individually or as a group unless they were a family member of a person in the church.
granitejon
“Unfortunately it is the church leaders that are encouraging this behavior.”
As with any population of humans, there is always a nut in the mix – that is true of all people. However, this type of behavior is NOT encouraged by any TRUE Christian church. A follower of Christ believes that ALL have value, ALL struggle with sin in one form or another, and ALL are loved by a God who understands our struggles but expects us to continue to try and walk away from sin. He knows that most won’t be completely successful but that doesn’t stop Him from loving us or forgiving us for our shortfalls.
Just as it is wrong to paint all people who choose to live a homosexual lifestyle as bad people, it is wrong to paint all of Christ’s followers as being “hateful.” We don’t hate, we just don’t agree. The concepts of hate and disagreement are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
That's the rule Christians should live by, not what most of them do live by.
Tether, you sound just like another rabid god botherer.
Westboro Baptist Church.
Linda M-331663, and just what agenda would that be? "This happened, it's hard to deal with, and those who say I did it myself are making it harder?"
Westboro Baptist Church are a bunch of loons. They are not true Christians as they don't follow what Christ taught and what the Bible says!
Jerry = bigot. You cannot stand homosexuals. What about black people? Mexicans? Other foreigners? A person who is charitable with their life and time you cannot stand just because of who they are? Wow. What would your impression be of someone who states "I cannot stand males"? Or "I cannot stand (whatever your race happens to be)"? Or "I cannot stand heterosexuals"? People like you are what's wrong with this world.
more guns?
Jerry, I'm sure the people that did this couldn't stand homosexuals either. Neither can Fred Phelps, Aaron McKinney, Russell Henderson, William David Brown, Jr., Joseph Bearden, etc. You're among the best of company, aren't you?
As far as those who have said the church does not promote violence against homosexuals: horsesh*t.
Pope Benedict made the proclomation that "protecting" humanity from homosexuality was just as important as saving the world from climate change and that all relationships beyond traditional heterosexual ones are a "destruction of God's work". But I'm sure he meant that in a loving way. The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle in Greensboro sure doesn't seem to mind a few beatings of the gay people, do they? Don't tell us the church loves the sinner but hates the sin. Many christians are the most hateful, most judgemental people I've ever met. They're also the ones who are most likely to smile in your face right before stabbing you in the back.
So, for those of you who "can't stand" homosexuals, please, contact Dennis and Judy Shepherd and tell them how much you can't stand gay people. At least have the courage to be the hateful, bigots you are.
Lets just give this situation a little bit to pan out. There are legitimate questions about her story that do seem a little far-fetched, but then again stuff happens every day that is surprising. None of us actually know for a fact what happened, so lets all try to hold our speculations to ourselves. I for one hope this was just a hoax and not some crazy bastards getting off on torture. But I'm at least intelligent enough to know that I have no idea what happened in that house.
Obviously Timothy1Mil, you consider homosexuality to be sinful. Surely though, you recognize there are many sins. Just as surely, there are some sins that you commit despite your best efforts to attain perfection. However, please feel free to tell us if, instead, you are without sin.
So, with all the world's sin and the sin you commit daily, why are you so obsessively focused and fascinated with homosexuality and homosexuals?
Would you not be a truer follower of Christ if, like Him, you loved (all) your neighbors as yourself and attended to the lumber in your own eye rather than focusing such obsessive attentions upon the motes in the eyes of others?
Take a look back at your comment history here on Newsvine: http://timothy1mil.newsvine.com/_more/users/comments
Do your words drip with hate? Do you mention your own flaws? How well do your cuts, slashes, and condemnations comport with the message of love, tolerance, and forgiveness Jesus Christ bestowed upon mankind?
There appears to be a dark hand upon your soul. Do not be deceived.
Its not a hate crime - its a CRIME. You know, assault. If she presses charges then the agressor should go to jail for assault -
Hate crimes are absolutely ridiculous = you need an actual crime before you get a hate crime.
How about instead of inventing new crimes to make people feel better - we simply enhance the penalty for the actual crime committed - then - the REASON the person committed the crime is only relevant in the sentencing phase when the standards of proof are much lower - then the accused cannot use the pulpit of being a defendant to rail against whatever free speech rights they claim to have - and we simply put them away for longer.
With the silliness over hate crimes a persons motiviation for committing a crime is not relevant to their guilt or innocence - its relevant to their penalty once they are convicted. All this is, is pandering to a group you want to placate.
If someone is assaulted, you arrest the perp for assault and convict them of assault and give them more time if they did it for reasons of bias - there is ALWAYS bias in a crime - in theft is they want what you got . . . in assault its they don't like you and want to beat you up. So judging bias is inherent in the crime . . .
A lot of those most vocal critics of homosexuality among the 'religious right' have turned out to be gay or crypto-gay themselves. 'Live and let live' should have been the first commandment.
When faced with things like Westboro Baptist Church and the offended Christians who pause to proffer the "No true Scotsman..." defense dreck as the excuse for the depravity of their fellow Christians, I am reminded of Ghandi, "I don't have any problem with your Christ, it's his followers that worry me." If your Fellow Travellers bother you so much, maybe you need a different road.
The Inquisition had the same sort of 'reasoning'.
In fact, they loved the sinners so much and hated the sin so vehemently - that they would lovingly torture the sin out of people in order to save their souls.
This special sort of 'love' of which the severely delusional are capable is unique to religion.
Something is not right with this happening.
Why did she not show her arms and abdomen to the Media that were carved by the brutes?
Could it have been her partner?
The true facts haven't come out yet; this is just the beginning of the Investigation. Preliminary accusations often turn out to be personal problems with people that one knows.
Now we have the Gun mentality to solve all defense problems. What if the gun had turned on her during a struggle.
Forgotten the pastor who told his congression to break the wrists of their child if they "gave them the limp wrist"?
How can you tell whether someone is a "TRUE" Christian or not? It always funny to see people defend others in the same faith.
I was a Christian for 20 years and I know all about it. You can't just say they are not "TRUE" Christian since they are as much Christian as you do.
I was shocked once when I asked in my Church how they respond to the victim of airplane crash. Guess what I got? They do not believe hard enough, that's why they died. And those are at the top of 2 churchs I went to.
That was the start of everything and a crack to my faith. Yes, those same people also hate homosexual.
Timothy1Mil Comment collapsed by the community
"yet another drama queen with a made-up story to draw "attention" to themselves. They are all such "victims"
Looks like Timothy is the one looking for attention.......grow up boy!
I want the Government to get over this 'Hate Crime' crap... When a crime is committed, it is a crime and the 'Stupid Azz Criminal' should be punished by the laws we already had on the books, just not being enforced.
One reason I retired from law enforcement with just 20+ years on, I was tired of the 'So Called Justice System' making the victims, victims again, and letting the criminals have most of the perks! If you think most criminals with a 'Public Defender' gets 'Rail Roaded', your wrong, their sentence is not as light as if they had a private attorney, they still get off fairly light..
JUST WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT CHRISTIANS DID THIS? WHERE? Maybe everyone on this site has a prejudice against christians and just refuses to admit it.
Just what does the Westboro Church have to do with this? Again, people on this site like to blame a group of people because they don't want to believe that other criminals might have something to do with this. Guess what? Last I heard, even atheists weren't 100% for homosexuality. And there is more of a possibility that one of them broke into the home, than one of the "christians".
Second, MSNBC has got to stop this. People everywhere are feeling less pity for homosexuals because they are leveling the playing field. No longer do we feel pity; because it is really hard to feel pity for someone who constantly shoves beliefs down your throats and even turns businesses against others in an effort to rally them toward your cause. For example, nobody cared about Chik-fil'a personal beliefs until Jim Henson decided that they are no longer going to give them their toys because they were against his homosexual beliefs.
Arsenic: NOBODY SHOULD BE QUOTING GHANDI. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT GHANDI WAS REALLY LIKE. HE USED TO REFER TO THE BLACKS IN SOUTH AFRICA AS KAFFIRS( AKA n*GG***) AND THAT CONTINUED UNTIL THE DAY HE DIED.
To clarify for those who do not understand what a hate crime is and why it is separate and distinct from other crimes: a hate crime involves not only the individual who was specifically targeted, but all the other people in the community to which that individual belongs; a community that the criminal, through his/her actions, has intimidated and caused fear and distress that has altered their ability to feel as free as those outside of that community. If this woman's story is true, then the perpetrators were sending a message to the rest of the homosexual community that they could be their next target. Threats alone are also crimes, you see. And their actions were not only against this woman as they were intended as a threat to the entire gay community. This is why a hate crime is on a different level than other crimes; they are against, and impact, an entire community.
Are you kidding me??? Why on earth should she be expected to show her arms and legs to the media?!?! And why do so many people here feel the need to question whether it was her partner, whether she just made it up, yada yada yada?? This kind of "blame the victim" mentality is exactly the problem. Her attackers feed off that kind of thinking. No doubt the police have plenty of evidence, including pictures. Why do you feel like YOU need to see that?? Would you ask a rape victim to show you the bruises between her legs? Come on, dude. What a horrific crime she endured, and then to be victimized again by people like you... it's disgusting and shameful.
Timmy, Timmy, Timmy, it's OK to come out of the closet now. It's not a big deal any longer, cause everybody's doin it. You don't have to show everyone how macho you are by bashing your fellow gay members, you can now show that you really do have a brain left and aren't just some bigoted, knuckle-dragging pinhead.
Christians are sinners too. Sin is sin and there is not one sin that is greater than any other. I white lie is just as bad as homesexual sin in God's judicial system. Also, sex of any kind outside of marriage is a sin. No christian should be advocating violence against anyone that does any type of sin. We should be loving the sinner and hating the sin (all sins) and we should be striving to live apart from sin with the full knowledge that we will never be perfect until we are in our glorifed bodies with Christ in heaven eiether after death or the rapture. This does not, however, give us a license to sin, because, our Father in Heaven will chastise us for the sins we allow in our life. The Holy Spirit is there to help us fight off the temptation, but if we do not listen to the Holy Spirit or Read our Bible daily to keep our minds and spirits fed then we will not be able to withstand the tempatations and will sin. Just because we sin doesnt mean we are not a christian!
Evolve people, there is no place for religion in a healthy and thriving society. All religion does is create hate, wars, oppression and fear. This hateful, egotist that you all believe in, is and has always been, a lie. Wake up!!
Marchant
I agree, this dosen't pass the smell test.
Attacks aginst gays usually don't happen in their home, and usually it's random.
This would have made more sense if it was only one or two attackers because as you increase the number of participants you increase your chance of getting caught.
Could it have been a jilted lover? Or it could have been someone (man or woman) who was interested in her and was rejected.
How did she escape?
Were the attackers people that had a grudge against her, and made it look like a hate crime?
Robbery gone bad?
Three attackers couldn't start a fire?
Show the arms.
No suspects five days later? The people who did this would have it made it known that they hated gays, in other words this attack would not have been the first time the attackers showed their hate.
We need more information.
Rick in SD,
You are 'Dumbing' down America, don't you think by just reporting the news and crime and catching and prosecuting the azzholes that did this, or anyother so called 'Hate Crime' the people get the message... I think so... I think the Blacks that lived through the 'KKK's' big bad era, and other people, got the message that they were hated by this outfit... It did not take a new 'Law' to tell everyone this... Did we sent out messages to the Jews durring WW II, to let them know they were hated, and a 'Hate Crime Law was Years in the Making... Did not think so.. Same thing with today's 'Haters', it does not take a new 'Hate Crime Law', to tell everyone... Just prosecute the 'Suspect' to the 'Fullest Extent of the Laws Already ON the Books'... Quit trying to play 'POLITICS' with Crime and Punishment...
Just watched the interview. Garbled, disjointed, nonsensical. She sounds a few bricks shy of a load, frankly.
I'd bet $10 this is either an outright hoax, or she's nuts and this is something she cooked up for some bizarre reason.
Hate to sound cynical, but something about this woman is just way off kilter.
CuongDNguyen
CuongNyguyen: Were you surrounded by teenagers? Those answers seem very infantile. Anyone who has 20 years of experience of being a christian would not have fallen for those answers. Unless of course, you too were just as infantile in your faith as they were. I suggest you seek out another church. I know that I would have.
Sorry, but this line is pure BS.
I have spent over 30 years in the Christian community, with extensive studies, and I will tell you that this is simply a way to justify the hatred in their own heart.
You see, Christians recognize that hate is bad... they know that Jesus taught against ALL hate. However, they faced a problem. They hate homosexuals, yet recognize that they are not supposed to embrace this hatred. So what did they do? Simple, twist the words around... find a loophole that allows them to embrace hatred while still claiming to embrace love at the same time. So, through simple semantics, they have found a way to justify the hatred that consumes their souls.
Anyone who has spent any time studying Christianity knows this. It's the equivalent of a child saying that they did not punch their brother, they were simply punching air and their brother walked into it. It's word-play... a loophole.
The ironic thing is that there are multiple lines in their Bible which deals with this very issue. Everyone is aware of the "judge not" line, of course this is routinely ignored in the Christian community. There is also the splinter in the eye, log in your own eye, analogy. Basically this states that everyone sins, and to focus on the sin of another is wrong, because you ignore your own sins. Again... ignored by the Christian community.
So don't let this word game fool you. Christians are not supposed to fill their hearts with hatred, they are not supposed to let hate consume their souls... regardless of how they twist their words in a desperate attempt to justify it.
Unhappy-1583758
So what is the right Christian demonination that CuongDNgyuen and the rest of us should follow? The one that supports your beliefs or another one? I am on the edge of my seat.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
sickning the laws need to be equal so people are treated equal.... these laws and churches give permission to act this way------Disgusting
Attacks against the LGBTQ people is nothing new, and it is sanctioned by the Church and its leaders since the forming of these religious institutions. So I don't find it surprising that it is still going on today, in this dire economy for millions of Americans, who are out of work, upset(Understandably) and, out for blood from the usual targets of their hate, fists, guns and religions!! The cowards have to be joined by others, to commit their attacks on innocent people, who are often alone or not expecting the hate that is boiling over by the hatemongers of the world.
UNHAPPY...
so if this had been one of you.. a bigoted, ..hateful, hypocrite so called christian... this article would be ok.. and you and the rest of your kind would follow suit.. so my suggestion is that you read the old testament the chaptert leviticus before you have sex with your spouse.. it has some very interesting facts and rules in it.. my favorite part of this is the bible forbids you to have sexs unless it is for procreation..so HAVE FUN
Yes Linda its "hate the sin and love the sinner"
That's the problem with religion .
You christians except homosexuals as long as they live like a hetrosexual thus you do hate homosexuals.
Why is it we have to hear about a crime on one lesbian? Why does this gather national attention? There are other violent crimes that occur everyday and it doesn't receive this kind of attention. Also why does the media point out crimes against a homosexual, but when they commit the act it isn't mentioned in the same manner. Look at all the boys that Sandusky molested. That was a homosexual act against a child yet it is not spoken of in those terms. It goes to show that the media is trying to push an agenda. When was the last time they reported with such zeal a racist hate crime against a white person? I have never seen it. They fan the flames for their own gain and it is shameful!
There are many twisted and evil people who call themselves Christians.... that does not mean they are. They are many ignorant people who cite bits and pieces of the Bible to justify their hatred and bigotry, that does not make their views righteous. Christ instructed his followers to love everyone, even their "enemies", as they love themselves. You can tell what a person is by their attitudes and actions, more than their words.
Comanchedriver........you said:
Clearly, you are not aware of the legal discourse which led to the creation of "hate crimes" categories. Here is some of the reasoning:
Take, for example, a simple act of vandalism. A delinquent throws a rock through a window or spray paints profanity on another person's property. In most jurisdictions, such misbehavior would be no more than a misdemeanor. Such a designation, and its prescribed penalties, are usually more than enough to dissuade the perpetrator from repeat offenses. After all, their motivation was simple mischief.
Now consider, by contrast, a seemingly similar act. A bigot paints profane and insulting words upon the personal property of a person who is the object of his/her hatred. Our legal system has learned (from experience) that conviction of a misdemeanor with its prescribed penalties is often insufficient to deter repeat (or copycat) offenses. So, we have codified a different crime (maybe a felony) and punishment for what, on its face, appears to be very similar (if not identical) misbehavior. Thus, our legal system now recognizes that a criminal's MOTIVATIONS must be considered so as to achieve the desired result: deterrence.
There is nothing new about considering the circumstances (i.e. motivations) when classifying crime. It has long been true that a person who kills another by accident commits one criminal offense (perhaps manslaughter) whereas a person who kills another with intent and forethought commits an entirely different criminal offense (murder). The victims are equally dead. The deadly weapon may be exactly identical. Yet, the circumstances and intent (motivation) lead to convictions for very different criminal offenses.....and seriously different POTENTIAL penalties.
double post website glitch.
Someone knows who did this----and it is wrong for you not to notify someone and you can do anonomously!
Do not let these dangerous perpetrators of hate prevent you from doing what is right for your fellow human beings.
The perps are monsters not friends, relatives or sons/daughters anymore. They purposedly carved into another's body to do damage and cause pains for a lifetime. These are not the sons/daughters that YOU raised, they are pure and simply minded Monsters and you need to turn them in!
TC what you said is illogical. Just because you don't like what someone does, it does not mean you hate them. I am a parent and my children have done things that were wrong and I hated it. That did not change my love for them. My love for them is unconditional. Jesus taught to love your enemies and do good to them. That didn't mean you have to like what they did to you or the wrong acts they commit. I don't see how you can possibly know what is in a persons heart with the thinking you have described. I have found the real hate comes from thoses who state we need tolerance, but are intolerant to anyone who disagrees with them. By the way, I have a brother who is homosexual. He knows I believe his lifestyle is wrong, however we still visit each other. He knows my love for him is unconditional even though I don't like what he does, my love for him will not change. I always treat him and his partner with respect. This is how you reach people. You show Christ's love and hope it will be change the hearts of others.
@CBurroughs, speaking of "dumbing down," let me try to explain it to you again. A hate crime involves a second crime, which is a threat to a wider community. There is the physical crime against the individual, and there is also the second crime: the threat being made to the community (black, homosexual, etc.). It's more than just a single crime. Get it? Probably not, but that's only because you aren't part of a community that's affected by these sorts of crimes, are a bigot and don't care.
JohnnyontheSpot:
You got my "drift" in my comments.
Excellent comments, and understanding the possible situation.
Why did this woman decide to come out now re: her "story". Agreed, 3 men tie her up?, brutalize her and then what?---Usually, an attorney is contacted right away to be her counsel in a hate crime. Who is representing her?
Still think it was a partner, or someone in her circle of friends. Jealousy plays a huge part.
There is no proof of the carving in her arms or abdomen. The "carved" arms would tell all.
CBurroughs
Being that you spent 20+ yrs in law enforcement, it's hard to imagine that you don't understand the rational of "hate crime laws". As you certainly must know, each state PC system is state regulated and say for instance in this particular situation, if caught, these individuals could face numberour charges being plea-dealed down to misdeameanors. Under the "Hate Crime" act (crimes due to Bias laws) no way you cut it, this is a felony with penalty enhancement. In your post, you stated you retired because:
In most jurisdictions, being prosecuted for a Hate Crime means you are still being prosecuted under the original statute of the law and the "Hate Crime" is an enhancement on your punishment and also allows the victim to gain an avenue for Civil cause of Action against you. So how do you, as a retired law enforcement officer see this as being useless? What kind of police officer where you?
Beating people up for what they do with their lives isn't called for, even if you don't agree with what they do.
LGBT will always fight one irreconcilable fact though, biology, men and men/woman and woman just doesn't work biologically, despite their most fervent protests and attempts to make someone who doesn't agree with them look dumb. They nor their sympathetic lapdog courts will be able to change the facts that e-coli exists and that an anus was never meant to have sex with. Same with the fact that two of the same gender will never combine their DNA to make their own children.
A woman's home was invaded and she was brutally assaulted by three people. Because of her sexual orientation. I cannot think of anything that would justify this type of heinous behavior. Yet, it's always a debate isn't it? We always make it personal as well.
I am a retired U.S. Marine. I have been married to the same woman for 25 years. I not only think it is acceptable, I encourage gun ownership/ education. I am a devout Christian who actively goes to church every Sunday. I get cast into stereotypical molds all the time. I've probably already been cast in some of your minds right now.
I've been called some quite colorful names and accused of having some rather ugly thoughts and ideologies based on those few simple facts, above.
No where in the story was religion mentioned, yet 30 comments deep what happened to this woman is not as important as suggesting I should either turn my back on my religious beliefs or embrace the practices of the Westboro Baptist Church? Because we are one in the same? If someone is of German descent are they a Nazi? If someone is of middle eastern descent are they a terrorist? Based on the above facts about me, am I some type of intolerant, narrow minded homophobe? Or is that just, an easy mold to cast me in so you can rationalize tearing up my religion or any of my other beliefs for that matter.
I am almost amused by the amount of respect so many people demand while they reserve their right to be so disrespectful.
Well they don't know who did it yet...so they can't say if they were religious...but common sense is enough to speculate that the perpetrators felt compelled and justified by religious anti-gay rhetoric.
They represent the worst of xianity. Self righteous evangelizers with an agenda of hate. They encourage violence against minorities with their insistence that god hates them....the natural conclusion is that to harm them would be to do god's work.
Why? Why is it more likely to be atheists?
There is no MSNBC anymore. It's NBC now.
What? I don't think you can speak for "people everywhere". I feel nothing but compassion for this woman who was brutally attacked by animals....and then attacked again by heartless, selfish people who are more concerned about their "group" looking blameless than the pain she suffered.
Do you mean the way JC Penny had Ellen Degeneres and same sex couples in their advertising and a bunch of theists had a fit and refused to shop there? Or do you mean the way Chick fil A announced that they were funneling money to anti-gay organizations and a bunch of people who support equality refused to shop there? Which side is "shoving beliefs down your throat"?
Not true. I've known about their beliefs for some time...and I'm proud to say I have never given them a dime of my money. We eat out frequently and drive right past them on the way to other restaurants because of their hateful views. Their founder and president Dan Cathy has been in the news lately (the real news) for his outspoken views against gays, so a number of people are learning about them for the first time. Jim Henson died over 20 years ago, but his company has the right to choose whom they do business with...and since the majority of American support equality, it makes good business sense to not do business with a company whose founder just made a public donkey of himself.
Kafir means non-believer.
mguy, Christains don't hate gays,they don't acknowlege them. I'll put it to you in the form of one of your child anologies. Johnny didn't want to play with Billy because he likes to climb trees and Johnny doesn't want to do that. Johnny doesn't hate Billy he just don't want to have any part of what Billy does. Or in the form of religion. Johnnies father forbid him to climg trees,but he can play with Billy as long as there is no tree climbing. Our Pastor preaches that just as Jesus over turned the token sellers tables outside of a Synagogue and proclaimed,"everyone is welcome". The tokens got you a seat in order to worship so only the rich would be close to God. So for Christians," EVERYONE is welcome" is just that. The gays always use this as an example of what would Jesus do. But Jesus wanted everyone who wanted to worship be allowed in, He didn't try to alter the Jewish faith.
@ Tether... Religion does encourage hate crime. Read the old testament and you will learn how one group elimated other groups because they were prospering better. So the people heard voices (God, angels) telling them to eliminate the other groups. That is hate! Those people back then needed psychologists.
And the Old Testament is and was used by Christians, Jews, and yes Muslims.
Well, they don't have any suspects and therefore she must be making it up? So if your child is murdered or someone runs you over or beats you (a hetero person) up and there are no suspects, then it means it didn't happen or you/the victim is lying and making it up? What the crap is that reasoning..or lack of reasoning? It could mean the perp was awesome at hiding his/her tracks, the police aren't doing their jobs, or both. Seriously, just because she is a lesbian and the alleged perp(s) got away people assume she made it up??? How bigoted is that? Do these same people say that if she were straight and got beaten or raped, robbed maybe? Amazing.
And no, she isn't required to show the public anything. Is that the new standard our society demands of everyone who is assaulted, even if they are straight? Do you people who are saying these things see how biased you are being? Sure, people have made up things before, but you can't automatically assume someone is lying because s/he is gay and the perp got away...for now.
Oh, and yes, some churches and some public figures (including clergy) do advocate for hatred toward gays. They may not say, "Go kill one!!", but when they say things like, "They are an abomination against God and will burn in hell", or "We can hate the sin, but not the sinner" they open the door for nuts or even those who are passionately trying to do what they think is right in their misguided reasoning to do something nasty. If your pastor is telling you that gays will will ruin marriage and may make your kids gay, that they have some agenda to take over your town or other nutty things, then if you are a card short of a full deck or just blindly following your church, then trouble happens.
And then we have the media and politicians adding fuel to the flames, and then of course those who simply hate the "other" for various reasons. And yes, there are plenty of churches around who do have preachers who preach right up to the hate line (or over it), and I see this in my area a lot. Does it matter if they are "true" Christians if they are doing this in the name of God in their minds? What is a "true Christian" anyway? Each group has a different definition for that label, and this isn't a contest.
Until it just isn't accepted anywhere to treat people unequally because of their skin color, religion (or not having a religion), gender, sexual orientation, age, or other factors this type of thing WILL happen. It doesn't mean that all Christians are guilty any more than all atheists are evil, dishonest, or don't believe in anything, but it's like saying, "Oh, blacks are people and we should love them since Jesus said to love everyone, but they're animals and go around having sex and robbing stores, so we can love them and hate their sins". That is disgusting to say, but things like that were said for years and still are by some, and those comments made it more okay to hurt or kill a black person than a white one in society. When comments like, "Love the sinner, hate the sin" are accepted as the norm, all a nut or hater has to do is say he was getting the sin out or some inane comment like that to minimize his crime, or say the gay person attacked him, and it becomes a free-for-all like this thread one how she wanted attention, she made it up, it sounds fishy, and she should have to show us her wounds. Do we say that to nice young, white, teary straight women who say a big many came in and beat her up? She has to show her wounds to the circus-goers? Or is that type of compassion saved for black, poor, inarticulate, socially unacceptable, or gay victims?
Even if it didn't to her, I assure you who don't believe it that it happens a lot more than people realize, and it is wrong. The police will investigate this and we won't know what happened until then if ever.
Marchant, I can't believe you are asking who her attorney is. Have you no idea how the justice system works? As the victim of a crime the state or county prosecutor is representing "the people" (i.e. you and me) if the perpetrators are caught and brought to trial. She didn't go out and hire a lawyer and report the crime to him or her. Now the perpetrators, on the other hand, will need to hire a defense attorney to try to get them off or reduce their sentence. If they cannot afford an attorney one will be provided by the court (i.e. tax payers). Most crime victims don't run out and hire an attorney unless they are bringing a civil suit. Criminal trials are left up to the D.A.'s (that means District Attorney, an elected official)office. Get off of the internet and read a book.
@fenderbluesjr...When Jesus turned over the tables no where in the Bible does it state he did it for Gay people.
It was done for the poor, weak, and sick. Please correct me if I'm wrong I only started reading the Bible when I was 9 yrs. old. Yes reading not listening to others. I don't hate gays but Don't mix Jesus with the table part because that part is mixing up history for Gay benefits using Jesus and that is not in the Bible.
It's a horrible thing when hate rises to the surface, from the bottom of the pond. This is an abhorrent attack on a woman who was not only minding her own business, but actually going out into the world and tying to make it a better place.
She's a fine example of a wonderful human being, even having gone through what she did, she still refuses to become a reflection of the hate that she became a victim of. It would be in the best interests of all of those who support her and the LGBT community to follow her example.
Spewing your own hate at all Christians/Conservatives only lowers you to the level of the ones who hate you.
It's important to remember that there are a lot of people from both sides of the issue who do not comment on blogs and do not fit the stereotypes that get flung back and forth over the fence in these cyber-stoning circles.
May the grater good which all living things are a part of have mercy on humanity.
Notkidding....that was an excellent response. Unhappy is a great moniker for that viner....he/she is obviously very unhappy, but of course, it's easy to see why. You can't make things up in order to fit your view of a situation, and to say some of the blatantly stupid things that were said here, they should be called out. Nice job.
Rick & Lorraine,
Nope not a bigot, and a good cop... You two still do not get it, hate crime laws we still do not need... It was a Political Stunt, to satisfy persons and morons like you two, in special interest groups to think a criminal may get a worse sentence... Therefore, another useless law on the books and time and money spent to write it.
Justme....as a bible afficiando, could you please state exactly where in the bible it states that Jesus hated homosexuality? Also...as a secondary thing, could you please state where exactly in the bible it states that marriage is for only one man and one woman? Actually....anybody please. Oh....one thing...you can't use Leviticus (because he was obviously deranged and has waaaay more stupid rules than the gay thing). Thank you.
fenderbluesjr
I was referring to the Christina statement of "we hate the sin but love the sinner". As anyone can see, this phrase is admitting that Christians fill their hearts with hatred, but they use a loophole to justify this hatred.
Christians have NEVER said "we don't acknowledge their lifestyle" or "we don't agree"... they use a very specific term: HATE.
Your analogy does not work because it does not include the "hate" concept. To be more accurate, you should have said
You see, no matter how you justify it... no matter how you twist your words... no matter how many loopholes you use... at the end of the day, YOU Christians are still filling your hearts with hatred. You are still letting the emotion, the SIN, of hate consume your entire soul. Every ounce of your being is plagued with this emotion. You HATE... and you justify it with a pathetic play on words.
She certainly may very well be a "drama queen" and making this whole thing up. As many pointed out, If she were armed she would have had the opportunity to provide evidence to the contrary in the form of a wounded/killed intruder.
Justme, I'm not trying to mix words or offend anyone most of all the Lord. And I am well aware of the passage. But, I'm stating that this is the preaching of my Pastor. And as you might know there is a growing seperation in the Lutheran Church in regard to homosexuality, one Synod is for it, the other is not. It looks like mine is for it with it's interpretation of,"everyone is welcome". My post was in response to nguy statement that Christians hate Gays, which is ridiculous.
mguy let just apologize to you then. I am truly sorry.
NotKidding: I suggest you look up the word Kaffir.
Second, are you saying that it is only the homosexual population that is allowed to spew hate towards christians( and you know they do) while we are expected to just sit back and allow you to blame us for offenses that we might not have committed? Really?
Unhappy....hate? Strong word. Do you have any instances where gays were spewing hate towards Christians? I can provide you with numerous instances of the reverse.
Michelle:
You are correct. The Prosecutor defends the victim.
Mia Culpa moment. Thanks.
God, true believers say you hear all prayers. I pray that the people who did this be caught, have their balls cut off while they're awake and shoved straight up their a$$es.
Amen.
Stevefoo: Haven't you ever heard of Chik-fil-a? Or didn't you notice that homosexuals are now spewing hate towards christians? Like I said before, homosexuals are leveling the playing field. It's really hard to invoke pity when even homosexuals don't realize that they are doing the exact same thing.
I know some people like to paint the picture of homosexuals as being anti-bias, but let's face it, that's not realistic anymore.
Movingout.....yeah, but most times the answer to your prayer is 'no'. Since the answer is so random (absolutely no rhyme or reason for it), then why do it? Also...(never understood this either)....if god's plan is already in place and everything happens for a reason (as most all Christians will attest to), why bother praying? Aren't you indeed asking for god to change his well thought out plan?
Unhappy....they are not spewing hate at Chik-fil-a at all....they are expressing their opinion as consumers on what they will and won't purchase. I haven't seen one article from gays saying that they hated Dan Cathy and wanted to have him killed. Pretty much the same philosphy as the consumers that are boycotting JCPenny because they have Ellen as their spokesperson. Try again, please...remember....the key word here is 'hate'.
So many unhappy people on the vine. So makes you unhappy people's world turn?
@stevefoo- during the Prop 8 issue- it got ugly on both sides. LGBT gathered and protested churches everywhere in many different states and while on film- the things they said were mostly bleeped out. On the other hand, many people of faith (not just Christians) did and said things I believe they are not proud of either. It still happenes today in various places. Neither side is innocent.
Bigotry happens in all corners- sad but true...
Lookforthetruth....you are probably right about that. I think that I was more opposed to the word 'hate' that was mentioned. Christians are actually taught to 'hate the sin' (they don't seem to have many problems with other sins, though....I don't see them burning down houses of people that didn't remember to keep holy the lord's day). They espouse the word hate and brandish it like its a sword used to fight the demon gay front. I still contend that there is nothing in the arsenal of gays that remotely comes close. It's semantics, but it's really important to make that distinction.
Marchant, Thank you for your "sort-of" correction. The D.A. does not defend the victim, he defends the people against those believed to be criminals to thwart further criminal acts by said perps. (thats why, in court, cases are titled The People vs So and So) The victim needs no defense unless she did something wrong. If she did commit a crime here she will be prosecuted by the same D.A. you state is "defending her", and will then need to hire a lawyer as she would be facing criminal charges.
WOW is Unhappy ever Unhappy!
@Unhappy: You have a corrective suggestion and admonation for about everybody, don't ya! Even the other Christians that aren't Christian enough for ya! Ya know, Charlie might even be Christian too. I hope that she recovers as well as she can from that affliction too. I would know, being "Born Again" in 1974, read every Bible and Apologist text I could get my hands on for 6 years, still have a 3" thick concordance on my shelf. Then I returned to my senses, because, of course, Religion is a Choice, and God is Make Believe.
I don't hate Christians, I just hate their inhumanity. Kinda like Ghandi did. You know, pushing an global agenda of superstition, persecution, exclusion and, well, outright lies. Actions that have resulted in the needless deaths of millions. You know, like when the Pope said condoms won't stop the transmission of AIDS.
So when ANY Christian wants to step up and voice Moral Superiority in a news item involving people doing something Biblically Correct...
First its Comical. Second, its completely offensive to the non-delusional. Stay Unhappy, please.
stevefoo,
I believe that sin is sin and there is no one sin that is worse or better than the other. The main reason you see more people speak out about homesexual sin and abortion for that matter is that these two are being put in the limelight by politics, media etc..trying to make these sins Legal or Non-Evil, or not sins. Murder is sin, homesexual acts are sin, lying is sin, pre-marital sex is sin, etc.. Yes, I understand that lying is not illegal to some extent, and gay relationships are not illegal as well, but forcing people that do not believe in same sex marriages to allow that marriage to take place on their private business is not right and should not be allowed and this is part of the big stink that christians make because the LGBT associations are tyring to push that lifestyle on us. Also, forcing our children to learn about homosexual sex as an alternative lifestyle in sex education classes is also wrong. It is the parents' responsibiliaty to eeducate our children about sex, not the government/dictarship ran school district. These are just a few examples of why you see Christians speaking out more about this specific sin than you do others. also, stealing is a sin, and the law punishes you for that sin. The constitution is supposed to protect us in the free exercise of our religion, when the government tells us that we have to do business in a way that goes against our religion, that is infringing upon our rights to the free exercise of our religion.
Unhappy wrote "Second, are you saying that it is only the homosexual population that is allowed to spew hate towards christians( and you know they do) while we are expected to just sit back and allow you to blame us for offenses that we might not have committed? Really?"
Didn't Jesus Himself say, "Turn the other cheek"?
I smell hypocrisy.
So, unhappy, you also make the claim that a person can never make a valid point if they do or support something most consider evil?
Idiocy.
Here we have all the religious bigots anti-Christians. Call for tolerance but you are even worst. Justice have to come , and the perpetrators of this crime have to pay for their fault. The people that blame Christian Church for encourage this kind of behavior are a bunch of liberals atheist haters have an agenda is take the Christians out of their way, and declare the government their own God.
ks1971....I realize that you are trying to be respectful and appreciate that. However....what you and the Christian right do not understand, is that while you object to the intrusion of 'their' lifestyle on you, you don't realize that you are at the same time forcing 'your' lifestyle on them. All they are asking for is the same exact respect shown to them that is shown to you. I know you haven't given it any thought, but what exactly makes you 'right'? Why are Christians right? Because you read it in a book? That is unbelievably unfair....and pompous, and arrogant. I don't believe in god at all....but I at least give credence to the fact that I might be wrong.
ks1971, yes, the Consttutution does protect your right to practice religious freedom. It also protects my right to not engage in the same religious beliefs as you. A private company and private indidviduals can support whatever cause they chose regardless of what that may be. However, according to the same constitution that protects your religious freedom US laws are to be based on secular reason and not religion. Chik-Filet can do what they want, haters on either side can scream all they want. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again, tax-paying and law-abiding citizens deserve the same rights regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation. Thusly it stands to reason that under the law (and I'm not talking about religious law but the legal kind of law and the First Amendment) that gay people deserve the same rights as straight people, black people deserve the same rights as white people, poor people deserve the same rights as rich people, Christians deserve the same rights as Jews, Hindu's, Bhudists and Athiests, etc. No more, and NO LESS.
Stevefoo, sometimes I understand you and sometimes I don't. The statement above (#1.90) is one of those times I understand. Thank you.
Thanks PistolInstructor....appreciate the comment.
Tether, Thank you, i couldn't have said it better. In case anyone else missed it, comment 1.7...
granitejon,
I don't know of any Bible believing church that would encourage such an act. In fact they typically teach to hate sin but love the person and pray for them. We are all sinners and all need to be forgiven.
stevefoo,
The Book that you are referring to happens to have many times over been proven by science and history to be correct. It had 333 prophecies of Jesus Christ's first coming that were literally fullfilled to the letter and these were written many years before he came, and written history has it recorded as a fact. That alone gives the book credence as being right!
CBurroughs is a lost cause. Stupid is as stupid does.
ks, nothing in the bible has ever been proven, either scientifically or historically.
It's nothing more than a book of fairy tales.
ks1971....sorry....science will NEVER agree that the earth is only 6000 years old as attested to in the bible. And....again....sorry, but science does not agree that the bible is proven to be historically accurate of anything. I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but I'm afraid you have been duped. Now...do I believe that Jesus existed? Yes....I do, because we have a calendar based on his life. Do I believe he was the son of god. Nope....and there is no way science could ever prove such a statement. I choose not to believe in god because my choice is that either he is unable to do anything to prevent evil or he can prevent it and doesn't, which would make him a collasal prick.
I think the reason the lady came forward is looking for a web site to send donations.
Don't get me wrong I hope the people that did go to jail for life.
On her arms and torso eh? Sounds fishy to me too! All the places she can reach. Why not carve on her back where they would have a better canvas as it were? Also three men TRIED to burn her home down with her in it? What idoits if they couldn't start a fire. Also if they were going to kill her, why not just do it outright. Also why write on her body and paint her walls just to burn it all away? Something isn't right here!
I'm well aware of what it means...and it does not mean what you originally claimed, nor do you know in what context Ghandi might have meant it. Yes, it is derogatory....but when have theists not been derogatory about anyone who doesn't believe as they do?
I'm not gay, but I have heard the religious community vilify gays all my life. They have a book written about 1500+ years ago that they use to justify their vilification, and have been doing it at least that long. So if we want to reduce this to "who started it"....that's not in question. In fact....if theists hadn't spent the last couple of millennia vilifying gays...they wouldn't be in the situation they are today...where they are treated like second class citizens and being attacked in their own homes...just for being gay. I think some push back from them is long overdue and completely understandable.
As for all the "blameless xians" who claim they are not prejudiced and that the current face of the religion in this country that is publicly opposed to equality doesn't speak for them...why then, do you add your silent numbers to it? Where are the xian campaigns FOR equality? Where are the xian boycotts of churches that preach hatred and intolerance? Where is the organized xian support for political candidates that support equality?
They don't exist.
It's just too easy to do nothing and allow hate to carry on in the name of the religion you ascribe to...and then deny you are a part of it. If you don't agree with them...and do nothing....then you support them. So don't complain if you are considered part of the problem.
stevefoo,
Sorry, but you are the one that has been duped by atieistic evolutionist's ignoring the science that goes against their beliefs.
Example: All of the best and the majority of scientific evidences indicate that the Earth is young, not old.
"There are 100s of different 'clocks' by which we can estimate th age of a rock or the age of the Earth, and almost all of them seem to give young ages for all of these things. There are about 5 or 6 however, that seem to give old ages. it's interesting that my evolutionary colleagues will always choose those old ones." (John Morris, Film, The Evolution Conspiracy) Calculations based upon the rate of influx of helium into our atomsophere, the decay rate of the earth's magnetic field, the imbalance of Carbon-14 and CArbon-12, the decay of theEarths Spin, ocean checmical concentrations, continetal erosion rates, ocean sediment levels, and many other evidences all point to an Earth just a few thousand yeas old. Calculations based on the rate of sun shrikage, llnar ga levels, micrometeorid levels, large star shrinkage, the decay rate of Saturn's rings, the decay of the Moon's orbit, comet decay, short-lived lunar isotopes, the incresing spped of cosmic dust, the decay of Galactic Clusters and Spiral Galaxies, and many other factors all indicate a relatively young solar system and universe
Then there is the missing link in Evolutionary Theory
There is no evidence for Evolution in the fossil record of the Past or present. Evolutionist do not have one real or proven exampl of evolution between any two species in the entire fossil record, ont one! Professor Louis T. More, a vocal evolutionist states, "The morew one studies palentology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone." (The Dogma of Evolution, p. 160) "The known fossil record fails to document a single exampl of evolution.." (Evolutionist Steven M. Stanley, Macroevolution: Pattern and Process, p. 39)
Evolutionists appeal to the idea taht evolutionis too slow and gradual to e observed. However, if there is not evidence for evolution in the fossil record and no evolution being observed today, one may reely choose to believe evolution by faith, but he shuld not try to call it science, which deals entierely with what can be observed.
Evolutionist still have no working theory of how evolutoion axtually takes place. There is stillno known mechanism for evoluton. All proposed mechanisms for how evolution actually takes place have beenn discredited and most of them have been discarded. The theory of the passing on of acquired characteristics or Lamarkism was disoproven by Gergor Mendel's genetic studies in the 1850s and 60s. Darwins Natural Selection indeed proosed a theory of the Suvical of the Species, but it never proposed any mechanism ofr the Arrival of the Species. Genetics likewise discredited the theory of sexual drift. Mutations have been shown to be regressive, not progressive. Neo-Darwinism only combines two earlier discredited theories. punctuted Equilibrium only claims that evolution happened rapidly; it proposes no real theory of how it happened.
and lastly, Evolutionist conviently ignore the fact that creatures from the top to the bottom of their evolutionay time table have been found in the same strata of the so-called geologic Column, indicating that triolbites, dinosaurs, and man all lived simujltaneously. This alone proves that the Flood mentioned in the bible happened because the massiveness of the flood would have caused these creatures to die together and their fossils to be found in the same strata. Hydrology experts on the power and products of massive water movements tell us that hundreds of feet of layered strast is exactly what would be expected after a global flood.
notkidding,
Christians feel that homosexaul sin is no different than the sin of a man cheating on his wife, we villify(as you put it) that sin just as much as homosexual sin. Again sin is sin is sin , it does not matter which pet sin you have, if you are sinning against God, we want to see you get saved so that you will not be damned to Hell, if you are saved and our sinning against God, we want to see you get right with God, so you will not suffer chastisement from God. It is all done in Love for you, just as Jesus died on the cross because of his love for you! It is not done to villify anyone!
ks1971: no where in the bible does JESUS the CHRIST say that homosexuality is a sin. You can't point out the quotation from him, because it does not exist.
That is the real problem, so called Christians, taking a word or a phrase, which may not even be a correct translation, out of context and turning it into the whole purpose for their existence. The degree of hatred of homosexuals spewed from the mouths of so-called Christians is disgusting.
Christ taught that love is the proper response, not hate.
How does allowing people to exercise the rights they should already have at all diminish your rights ?
Why should anyone have the ability to take away the rights from anyone else ?
1) How did this get turned into a rant against religion and Christians? There is nothing in the article about them or any evidence they were responsible. Did they: Leave a Bible? Chant or write religious slogans? Make a cross or crucifix? I don't see any of these things mentioned in the details. And I've never heard of any religious group in Nebraska that spray paints hate slogans or carves them into people's arms and abdomens. This sounds more like the actions of a gang or cult or someone acting out.
2) Except for sexual orientation, gays are the same as the rest of the human race. Being gay does not vaccinate you from having all the vices that the rest of humankind is heir to. The LBGT community has as many haters in it as any religious group I've ever seen.
3) If this woman is upset about the police having some doubt about her story, she should think of the parents of missing children who are suspected. Their suffering is much greater. And if she is an athlete, why didn't she fight back?
4) Why do alleged hate crimes against gays get so much press? FBI statistics show that, among hate crimes, crimes agaist gays are relatively rare. What about the other people who are victims of hate? How about the people who are harassed by the gay community because they disagree with their tactics?
ks1971....I'm sorry....I didn't realize that I was dealing with such a delusionary person. And, I am absolutely afraid that you are incorrect. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 97% of all scientists believe in evolution, and you giving one quote from one person doesn't change that fact. I am just sure that you believe that all the dinosaur bones that have been found have been faked, and that the earth really isn't on tektonic plates, and that man hasn't landed on the moon, and maybe even that the earth is flat. However, I am not going to change your mind about anything in this vein, so it's rather pointless to go on. I am going to quietly believe science (which you are badly, badly misinformed about) and continue with my understanding of the age of the earth and you can continue to believe that the earth is a new planet. Fortunately for me, aethism is the fastest growing 'religion' in this country, with a 16% increase over the last year, while Christianity is losing members at a rapidly decreasing rate. I won't see it in my lifetime, but eventually, people will realize the bible was a nice story and nothing more. It is absolutely and completely NOT scientific.
BTW: what does evolutionary theory have to do with this woman being attacked because she is a homosexual ?
Unless you are saying she could not possibly have been attacked, because, under your theory, all people are created by God and therefore she could not be a homosexual and therefore not attacked.
Or are you alluding to the fact that anyone who attacks someone because they are homosexuals are, in fact, acting like cave men or animals ?
Maybe she was attacked by dinosaurs since they existed at the same time as man. Maybe we missed some. You know, like the bible missed them. Why would a comprehensive history of the world like the bible include silly things like giant lizards perhaps (or perhaps not) covered in feathers that could stomp on villagers and attack and eat you if it was the carnivorous kind. Was there just not room for them on the ark? Is that why they're extinct? Can biblical experts tell us if in fact dinosaurs did have feathers?
Michelle....you're right! I forgot all about that!! I was too worried about the craziness of anybody believing in 'the flood' (isn't that like calling 'The National Enquirer' a newspaper?) that I forgot that if dinosaurs existed with Noah, then wouldn't he have been required to include one of each on the ark? ks1971....care to field that one?
Oh, how about the one in Greensburg IN that made headlines a couple of months ago for the four-year-old who sang "Ain't No Homos Gonna Make It To Heaven"? And then the good, buy-bull loving Christians cheered.
Or, are they not, as others have qualified, "True" christians?
CBurroughs
One would have to highly suspect that you never where what you claim. Any law enforcement officer in this country knows that penalty enhancement is the biggest deterrent to crime and your remarks calling people "morons" is just your ignorance coming through. No one called you a bigot and when I asked what kind of law enforcement officer you were, it wasn't meant to question your ability, but by your comments....one would question what you say your experience is. For instance...if you were a detective, you would understand the benefit of walking a case to the DA under the hate crimes statute and what effect that would have on the filing and the possible outcome for your victim (who I assume you are working the case very hard for since you compellingly told your story of leaving your career in law enforcement after 20+ yrs because:
This statement alone tells someone that you really cared for victim rights, so why would you be against the penalty enhancement. The same laws exist, the hate crime act simply allows the Justice system to help the victim seek appropriate restitution by civil cause of action against their perpetrator and allows for a heavier sentence because the crime was based on bias. So simply put...your assault case, can't be pled down to a misdemeanor because it is a felony under the Hate Crime Act - and that is non-negotiable. There are no new laws, no extra paperwork other than the PC filed with enhancement due to being a hate crime (if proven), and why would a law enforcement officer NOT want a perpetrator of such a crime punished by the same Justice System you said worked against victims. And as a police officer you would also understand that the hate crime statute allows for DOJ and FBI uniform crime reporting. What you say does not make sense coming from someone with a law enforcement background.
ks1971
notkidding,
There you go...right there. You think it's a sin, and they are sinners. In your religion, they are vilified just for being who they were born to be. If you want to believe that....that's up to you. But in a SECULAR society we do not vilify or punish people for what they do between consenting adults...provided no one is harmed.
A man who cheats betrays the person he's supposed to love. There is harm. Still...it's no one else's business, except his and hers.
Do you? Where are the xian campaigns to outlaw adultery? Did you vote for McCain....or did you refuse to vote for an unrepentant sinner?
That is your religious belief...not fact. You are free to believe it, and to live your own life according to the things you believe. What other people do...is none of your business.
There are hundreds commandments in the bible...are you seriously planning to save all of humanity from breaking any of them? I'll bet you break several of them yourself every day. Do you wear blended fabrics? Eat shellfish? Ham? Every embarrass someone or hold a grudge? Ever get drunk, or spend time with someone who did? Ever get angry? Bitter? Are you of the 'same mind' with every other xian? (with over 30,000 different xian denominations...seems no one is keeping that commandment) Do you murder your disobedient children? Sleep outside the community during menstruation? Stone your neighbors who work on Sundays? Every one of these commandments is as "valid" as the one regarding homosexual sex and every one is completely ignored. Please don't think the rest of us are stupid and believe that you genuinely think all sins are equal. Everything you do proves that's a lie.
So....you think treating millions of people like second class citizens...calling them sinners who will go to hell and fostering a climate where idiots think it's ok to beat them up (since they are unworthy sinners, after all) all in an effort to force your religious beliefs (which vilify them) on them....is showing LOVE?
I hope no one ever inspires your hatred.
Pandora66
Where in the world did you get your information. That statement sounds like "oh, it's not as bad as you think" kind of thing. Your statistics are wrong Pandora. The DOJ and FBI uniform hate crime reporting bulletin released for 2011 shows a steady 6% increase since 2006 through 2010. And of all hate crimes, crimes against gays and lesbians make up between 16% - 18% consistently since reporting began in 1999. As a matter of fact, it runs parallel to hate crimes against religious bias as well. Race is still the #1 reported hate crime at just over 50%, but to say crimes against gays are relatively rare is not supported by any reporting by the Dept. of Justice or the FBI statistics.
and nothing points to a "great flood" or the earth being 6000 years old
young earth creationists are the most delusional people in existence.
Notkidding: Do you think it is wise to have a campaign to encourage sexual sin? Afterall, why don't christians everywhere campaign for incestrous relationships as well in the spirit of fairness?
This is where christians and homosexuals don't see eye to eye. They don't see their lifestyle as sinful, much like a pedophile or someone who is in an incestrous relationship; all they see is that it works for THEM. Christians don't see these relationships as being equal, so why the need to campaign?
Would you campaign for those rights? No! People would think you were sick.
When you claim prejudice are you claiming that because we don't agree with your relationships?
I tend to see liberals as children who can't understand the word " NO". No matter how many times you explain it to them, no matter how many times you tell them it is not good for them, no matter how many times you tell them it won't make you happy, they still refuse to listen.
Laughing so hard at ks1971's post at 1.102 I am literally crying right now. Thanks for the biggest belly laugh in months.
Well LorraineH, you just verified what I said. And hate crimes against gays are probably over reported as opposed to those involving race and religion (which are under reported) because many of the racial and religious minorities don't complain as much or have as much access to the media. And how about hate crimes by gays against heterosexuals? They can't even get reported but they probably exceed any hate crimes against gays. Gays complain more and right now it isn't politically correct to criticize them in any way. Certainly all gays are not this way and I do not mean to stereotype them in any way. What I'm saying is being gay makes one no less susceptible to hate than any other members of the human race. Self-righteousness is a heady brew to quaff.
Notkidding really has to stop throwing out these off-hand absolutes such as, "Well they don't know who did it yet...so they can't say if they were religious...but common sense is enough to speculate that the perpetrators felt compelled and justified by religious anti-gay rhetoric."
Wow. Thank God for "common sense". We should just do away investigations and evidence and just force the Christians to cough up the perpetrators. They are probably hiding out in a Christian safe-house, or maybe the local Catholic Church has granted them sanctuary? Better hurry before they use their diplomatic immunity from The Vatican.
Using this "common sense" we should be able to figure how this went down then. Is there some firebrand preacher in Lincoln, Nebraska who asked, "who will rid me of this turbulent lesbian?" Following this "common sense" deduction, three drunken members of the congregation then interpreted this as a call to murder her, so they set off to do the preacher's bidding. Wait... that was the story of Henry II and Thomas Becket.... So, were these three guys part of a bible study group? Were they just sitting around and talking about lesbians and got amped up? Were they in church when they all got the idea and looked at one another and said, "we know what we have to do"? Were they part of a secret church sponsored anti-LBGT terrorist cell and received their instructions from the Christian "Pentavlet" which consists of The Mormons, the CEO of Chick-fil-A, Glenn Beck, Ralph Reed and the Pope? I mean, "common sense" has already brought us right to the perpetrators....
There is no such thing. There are crimes, and there are instances of harming others...but sex between non-related consenting adults are neither of those things. Nor could you "encourage" nor discourage others to have sex. What you think, do, or say will have no effect at all on how much gay sex is going on in the world. All you can do is prolong their struggle for marriage equality. You can prevent them (for a while) from marrying the person they love and having a family. That's it. You can't "save" them, all you can do is hurt them.
Here we go. Can't discuss the merits of gay marriage on it's own...since there is no harm in it and no reason to withhold it...so you bring in some entirely unrelated issue instead. If you want to marry your brother you will have to campaign to change the laws yourself. Expect to spend about 30 years and hundreds of millions of dollars...and then you might have to address the actual genetic harms involved to any potential progeny of the union....so you'll have a much higher bar than LGBT.
Pedophiles too...of course. Bestiality and marrying inanimate objects can't be far behind. None of these things have anything to do with the subject...they are what is called "red herrings". Pedophilia is illegal if acted upon...because it victimizes children. Incest does the same if it results in children with genetic disorders. Homosexuality hurts no one and is none of your damn business. You don't have to like it, or approve of it, or indulge in it. It doesn't effect you.
Because they hurt people. Can you see the difference here? What non-related consenting adults do, or who they love....is no one else's business. Do you want us to police what goes on in your bedroom? Make sure you only have sex in the currently approved fashion? If you have a right to police the private and intimate lives of others (and you don't) then they should have the right to tell you what you can and can't do between the sheets. Only fair.
Prejudice is when you determine a group of people don't deserve the same treatment, rights or freedoms as everyone else...just because they are a member of that group. I am accusing you of being prejudiced against LGBT because you claim they shouldn't have the right to marry the non-related consenting adult of their choice. Not that it matters of course...you are free to think what you want...but perpetuating this type of hateful rhetoric contributes to the kinds of horror stories that this article is about. It encourages the weak-minded to take matters into their own hands and carry the cruelty and abuse a few steps further...so be aware that your prejudices are contributing to the mistreatment and abuse of innocent people.
Is that how you justify trying to interfere in the lives of total strangers who have never harmed you? I'll bet you feel all parental and mature as you take it upon yourself to tell the rest of the world how to live. From this vantage point, it looks more interfering, dysfunctional, obsessive and just plain nasty. The constitution guarantees that people like you don't get to go around saying "no" to the rights of others just because you aren't emotionally mature enough to deal with the fact that we aren't all the same.
And you know that marriage equality won't make LGBT happy because.....? I'm sorry....but you are the one acting like the spoiled child here....you know nothing about these people (how could you, they are strangers) and yet you claim you know what is best for them? That kind of magical thinking and center-of-the-universe ego is generally only seen in the very young.
Notkidding....once again, all excellent points and very nicely put! These morons that insist on dictating what two consenting adults do or don't do is becoming very tiresome. And even more disturbing is their willingness to lump in non-consensual acts like pedophilia. To reiterate what you have said, it is their extremism that is unbearable here. These anti-gay people...actually, the religious fanatical fringe included, are quite honestly, some of the scariest people on the planet. As witnessed in some of the posts above from Unhappy and ks1971, their delusions extend far beyond simply not allowing people to live as they want. I'm not sure people like that will ever get it.
The men also allegedly spray-painted a derogatory term for lesbians inside the home...Isn't lesbian a derogatory term?
Stevefoo....thanks for the kind words....much appreciated. I am constantly amazed at people like this who cheerfully go out of their way to hurt others on a regular basis, then cry like overgrown babies when they are called on it. They seem to think it is their "right" to harm anyone they disapprove of and that anyone trying to take that "right" away from them is showing hate.
The incident in this article is the unacceptable result of their insanely hateful beliefs and rhetoric. A young woman is attacked, bound and tortured in her own home....just because some ignorant animals can't deal with the fact that she is a little different from the majority and have been told by others that she is less worthy because of it. The hate crimes won't stop until the hate does. Of course, we can't stop the hate, but we can at least do everything in our power to call people on it and stop letting them think it's socially acceptable to spread that manure and call it "love".
They may be able to delude themselves...but the rest of the world needs to stop humoring their delusions and demand that they stop fostering a climate of abuse. This especially applies to those theists who do nothing...and claim they aren't part of the problem. If they are rational enough to see how very wrong this is and don't demand that their religious leaders stop promoting hatred, then they share the blame for what happened to this poor woman and every other innocent who has been brutally harmed by that hatred.
dirtydog....something that simply identifies a natural and harmless orientation is not derogatory....but "ignorant bigot" is....especially when it accurately identifies someone who makes the conscious and deliberate choice to be one.
I'm not ignorant, I know what a lesbian is. I'm not a bigot either. I have no hatred for the homosexuals, I just feel much more comfortable when they're not around.
can ANY of the religious on this board justify how who marries whom is ANY of their GD business?
Thanks for proving my point dirtydog.
I imagine the animals that committed this crime felt much as you do....they'd be "more comfortable" if she wasn't around.
Oh no, you misunderstand me. I don't want to see the them harmed, I just don't hang around with those people. If you're a homosexual, I hope I haven't hurt your feelings. If I have, let me apologize, please forgive me. My neighbor is a homosexual and I always kiss him on the cheek and tell him how marvelous he looks.
Oh...I see.
Trolling.
My mistake.
You should ask your mom for a new video game if you're bored.
Just one more argument for the legal possession of firearms in the home! If she had a gun and knew how to use it, this report would certainly read differently.
I believe that firearms are legal in every state in the country. A shotgun is a firearm and much more effective than a pistol.
Yeah they would probably lock her for murder
Maybe she has a gun, but could not get to it. We don't know all the facts. Why should it be on her for not having a gun in the first place. Probably now what people on here mean, but the reality is these people chose to invade her home and attack her. They are the ones to blame 100%.
Problem is liberals don't like guns. The vast majority of homosexuals are liberal.
Liberals want our guns taken away.
Paul, this liberal doesn't want guns taken away. Guess what, most liberals don't want guns taken away (yes, there are those that do). Most liberals want reasonable restrictions on guns - primarily by better enforcement of existing gun laws and requiring background checks on all gun purchases.
Gun laws in the US are largely unenforcible anyways.
@Paul As a liberal, I'll be happy to lend you my shotgun so you can stick it up your arse. :)
Paul Liebe: I agree with Summer. I'm a liberal but own a small armory and would fight the government if they tried to restrict my right to own firearms.
But why not let the government register the owner or run a waiting period? I've gone through two FBI background checks and conceal carry to this day. It's really not a big deal.
@Paul Liebe
The vast majority of people with really really high IQ's are liberals, and Godless too. ALL of the founding fathers were the most liberal thinkers of their time. Our country was founded on a liberal, secular basis.
And this liberal burns a thousand rounds a year in pistol and 7.62x52 ammo on casual target practice and supports reasonable gun registration, purchase, and exclusion zone laws. So there. Wrong again Paul.
For the record I very much enjoy my varied gun collection . And Im a liberal .
Im more opposed to the use of the word " gun " They are weapons . Because my Uncle Sam taught me that . My gun is whats dangling between my legs .
And conservatives want every citizen to be required to own an RPG launcher.
See, liberals can generalize too.
The end all game with liberals is to take away guns.
Socialist don't like guns, the dems prove it everytime they turn around.
Obozo wants guns taken away, that's why they are signing the UN treaty yesterday or today to give up our gun rights.
Joining the Progressives around the world, giving the United Nations the power to come in the US and take our guns away.
Do a little research, you will find out this is true.
Obozo and Hillary are behind it.
As for the vast majority of high IQ's being liberals, well so much for education.
IQ puts you in the book smart catagory.
Now get some intelligence, that's not from books.
Jesus loves guns, right? I could just see Jesus with an AK47, couldn't you?
Paul...that myth is the dumbest fuc*ing thing I've ever heard and just goes to show how many liberals you actually know in real life. Every single liberal I know own firearms including myself. In fact, if more people had weaponry stuff like the Aurora, Colorado incident wouldn't have happened.
You guys LOVE to remind us how little got done during the two years the Democrats had total control but you never seem to mention how they took away your guns since they had two years to do anything they want. Funny...you're either too fu*king stupid to think about it or a hypocrite. Either way, you're a fairly moronic person. But keep talking...it amuses us...kind of like monkeys in a zoo.
Paul,
Time to get out teh aluminum foil. The Black helicopters are coming by for their brain wave scan of your neighborhood. They didn't find any brain activity last time. Keep wearing your tinfoil. It's working!
One other thing, smart people - in general, tend to do things better than less smart people. That includes thinking about issues and making deductions. It's just a fact. Apparently one you can't get over. Why is that?
"Now get some intelligence that's not from books."
Wow...I mean...wow...that would include what? Intelligence you gain from having your head entirely up your ass or what? I'm astounded, truly astounded, at your complete and utter lack of any sort of intellect whatsoever. I've heard a lot of stupid being flung around but you win the lifetime achievement award for stupidity. Please, PLEASE try for a Darwin award next...thinning the herd is a marvelous idea in your case.
@Paul
...need tinfoil?
Care to cite sources for this UN treaty where the UN comes and takes guns away? By the way, the names are spelled Obama and Hilary Clinton. They are the U.S. President and the U.S. Secretary of State, respectively. You don't have to like them, but if you're as patriotic as you portray, you sure should respect the offices they hold.
zephyr99, your comment was PRICELESS. Love it.
Liberal doesn't mean I won't protect me and mine, if you break into my home and I'm there, you'd better believe it will be your very last break-in.
I'm liberal and I support gun rights. I would oppose any effort to repeal the 2nd amendment. I know of no reasonable liberal who would argue otherwise.
I think the NRA has been fighting a phantasm for years.
Arsenic .. thank you for pointing out that our Founding Fathers were the radicals of their day. The far right may view them as icons of conservatism, but in reality they were huge disruptors of the status quo with viewpoints that lead, rather than followed, the population at large.
Actually, you will find those which you refer to as "liberals" to be pretty evenly split on guns - and to be honest, out of all the Viners I come across on here - very few are vehemently anti-gun; most just advocate a more measured approach to gun laws.
The old fearmongering "they gunna take err guns!" strawman only serves to display your ignorance and hypergeneralization.
This evil librul atheist goes to the shooting range every Sunday with my evil atheist librul neighbors.... we call it 'going to church.'
Barry,
You know how old John Hancock was when he signed the DI with that huge flourish - 23. Way ahead of their time those me, and brilliant enough to know their limitations, and write an adapatable document. A document that now says it's never OK to hurt someone because of how they think!
I like to remind "conservatives" of that every day. They are the ones with the radical adgenda. Conservatives, in general, have no need for new information, this means the world has no need for conservatives.
Certainly if she always had her gun in hand with her finger on the trigger. Sounds like a great way to live.
Aresenic: Actually most gun control laws are passed by liberals, not conservatives so stop generalizing that conservatives are the ones with the radical agenda. Therefore, the founding fathers probably had more in common with the conservatives of our time in the "right to bear arms". I just love the way, liberals like to rewrite history in order to suit their need. It really is funny.
YEARS ago, in a small town called Houston, Texas, some foreigners robbed some pawnshops, one on the same street as ours. Well, one manager, a Vietnam Veteran and Purple Heart recipient, was robbed. The other, also a Vietnem Vet called and decribed the "perps."
BOTH men, former trainees of mine and good managers, knew how to handle weapons and the one nearest me said he had several "locked and loaded" and READY, should the gentlemen with the strange accents return.
Well, we all knew that corporate policy precluded having loaded weapon in ANY of the stores. The robbers , somehow, maybe through the "street grapevine" also knew that! Thank GOD, Our Heavenly Father, those thugs did not rob us at GUNPOINT, slap our customers around and ruin our entire Saturday.
This issue is NOT ABOUT GUNS
A gun did not carve into and permanently damage her body---a man or woman did!
"The vast majority of people with really really high IQ's are liberals,"
eh......IQ <> Smart : IQ = Read books
Liberal OR Conservative = single minded + bias
Standing with a different animal, doesn't make that animal's turd smell like roses.
"Joining the Progressives around the world, giving the United Nations the power to come in the US and take our guns away.
Do a little research, you will find out this is true."
Getting your facts from Jesse Ventura eh?
Actually I wouldn't want them shot dead. I'd want them in prison where they would be on the receiving end of all the attention.
no shoot em dead dead dead, why pay to incarcerate trash like this
I lived the first 25 years of my life in Omaha and Lincoln, NE (recently re-located to Central IL) ... hate crimes such as this are rare (or least ones categorized as such). I hope people do not categorize the state or even the region based on this action.
And I certainly do hope that they catch the people who did this to her and lock em up for a long time! This shouldn't happen to anyone, period.
Hate crime in NE is rare cause, who make up the majority of the populace? You can't hate those that are just like you, or else you be hatin yourselves. NE is pretty arse-backwards racist.
Wow, a brutal hate crime and the answer is more guns.
Brilliant.
Exactly...what ridiculous thoughts...
I don't EVER want to have to "buy" a GUN...
Let alone USE one....
William - Would you rather run your attackers off with a shotgun or be tied and beaten?
Jo-An - I don't want to have to use a gun either. But I don't want to get tied up and beaten more than I don't want to use that gun.
Your pollyanna mentality may make you feel good but, please realize this: it also makes you the ideal victim. One who is unarmed and cannot imagine defending herself against multiple attackers with a tool that is actually effective. You and your safety are worth more than that, just like the woman in this story.
No one's forcing you to do so. You're content to be a victim; so remain a victim. Just roll over, do as those criminals tell you and everything will be fine.
I hope you never need to use one Jo-an. A gun is a tool - like any tool it can be used to self defense, or in the commission of a crime. That choice is up to the user. Guns are not of themselves evil, nor are they used specifically for evil.
For all of you anti-gun whackjobs, I hope you never need one. History is something you know nothing of - Like Hitler disarming his country. "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilised nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" Adolf Hitler
If we as Americans allow ourselves to be disarmed, we will face our own Holocaust.
aceman, you could not of said it any better or truthfully! Im glad there are at least a few intelligent people still out there like you.
Luckily I don't live my live in fear...
I'm NOT a victim...YOU are victim of FEAR...NOT me...
If I owned a gun, I'd better be able to pull the trigger...
Since I'm unable or unwilling to pull the trigger, I'd likely be killed by my own gun.
I prefer living in my "pollyanna" world, surrounded by my family, and dogs...doesn't hurt to own a pit bull and a doberman.
I choose positive energy, not fear...
Jo-An ... I think you miss the point. I own a gun (more for sport such as deer hunting and trap shooting, than protection) and I do feel safer with one. Because I have something to protect myself should the occasion arise. I do not live in fear. If something happens, it happens, I agree that you cannot be paranoid about it. But, should it happen, I'm prepared the way I would like to be.
If you don't want a gun, cool. I completely respect that. But it isn't fair to categorize me or anyone else who does as paranoid or anything else. There are plenty of people who do not own guns who live in fear.
And I completely agree with aceman above ... a gun is a tool. The person behind the tool decides whether or not it is dangerous.
You hit the nail on the head. "Postitve energy" is all you need. If only Ms. Rogers had more "positive energy" she never would have been attacked by three people. Brilliant. Oh, and the pit bull idea is awesome too. Everybody knows that pit bulls are 100% reliable and never bite people (kids) unprovoked. In fact, I bet you'd say that the pit bull that was just put down here in New York last month by the police (the one that was attacking a three year old) was the exception that proves the rule or their reliability, right? Of was it the three year old's fault? Not enough positive energy?!?!!?!?!?!? As an aside, woning a gun for protection is not about living in fear. I have an alarm on my house too, so does that mean I am living in fear? There is a difference between living in fear and being prepared for trouble.
That's entirely a state of mind that you can choose, whether or not you own a gun. Owning a gun does not mean that fear rules your life any more than owning a dog.
By the same token, not owning a gun does not mean you live as a victim. That is also a state of mind that you can choose.
Jo-An: More accurately stated: "Since I'm unable or unwilling to pull the trigger, I'd likely be (insert here - tied and beaten, raped, stabbed, etc.). If you have nothing to fear, why the pitbull and doberman? Don't they serve the same purpose as a shotgun insofar as home defense?
Here's the other side of the coin. Bet those people were happy somebody had a firearm: http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx
Pit bulls, like any dog, require training. Any poorly trained attack dog can be dangerous. Pit bulls get a bad rap - they are often bought and trained as attack dogs and so people assume they are naturally dangerous. Same goes for dobermans.
The truth is the blame is not on the dog. It's on the owner.
Lastly, sarcasm does not encourage productive debate.
Sorry William----correction Brilliant Ignorance!
Wow, the fear mongering is just ridiculous. What do you care if Jo-An doesn't want to own a gun. That's her choice, just as it is your's to own one.
Jo-An doesn't seem to be pouring it on thick, about how people get killed by their own legal guns all the time, so why are you trying to scare her.
Sheesh.
Thanks Sarah,
My point is people shouldn't have to own a gun, if they don't want to....and I don't want to...
My dogs are family pets, I was raised with dobermans and so were my children, the pit bull was a throw away and we've had her 8 years. We didn't get them "for protection" but if it works that way, GREAT...
I don't understand all the FEAR out there...
This girl shouldn't have to arm herself JUST because she is gay...
Jo-An,
I get it entirely.
I can only speak for myself, but it isn't really the guns I have the issue with, it's the false arguments and fear mongering. If you wanna own a gun, own a gun, but please don't spout off about self defense, crime prevention, or ensuring our freedom. Those arguments don't hold water.
Crime prevention needs to be looked at through the lens of a hybrid social science that includes criminology, victimology, sociology, and psychology. You can't simply say, "Guns make criminals think twice." No, they don't. Crime is motivated by all sorts of different social and cultural factors, by all sorts of different individuals, and each crime comitted by each criminal is different. Guns would only make them think twice if each criminal and each crime was rational.
Self defense also needs to be taken a case at a time. There are only a few instances, under an alignment of a perfect set of circumstances where a gun would work. Think about it... Timing, location,the circumstances of the crime, the mental capacity of the victim, the lifestyle of the victim, the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator... I could go on and on. An example, drive by shootings, a completely innocent person caught in one, is dead, long before they could pull a gun. Rape? Most rape is acquaintance rape, where victims tend to freeze or not even realize what's happening until it's too late.
And the government, really? First, who are these people, that we voted into office I might add, that want to usurp our liberty? Why would they want to destroy the very system that gives them their power? Why wouldn't checks and balances stop them? How would they go about doing this? Would they get our military to join them? If so, why would our military WANT to? If not, why wouldn't we use our military to stop them? Think about it. The 2nd Amendment was written when a red coat or "injun" could literally show up at your door, with zero notice, and kill you, while help was days, if not weeks, away. Now we have radar, cell phones, police, national guards, and we're all pretty much crammed into cities or suburbs.
We're not trying to scare her. Of course it is her choice. Some of us just want to provide a little info to rebut the "ridiculous thought" that a home defense firearm might have prevented this poor woman's ordeal. I can only hope the dogs will provide a similar defense should this horrible situation arise in Jo-An's house. Nobody deserves to be beaten and tied up. And we support for the legitimate use of firepower for anyone who wants to resist such criminal treatment. Cheers and positive vibes to all.
Sarah, see my link above in regards to your argument. Regardless of the knife-wielder's motivation, any hybrid multidisciplinary social study hogwash, or the perfect confluence of events, he was persuaded to cease his activity when confronted with a firearm. Your case is dismissed with prejudice.
WilliamOfRites
Wow, a brutal hate crime and the answer is more guns.
Brilliant.
Well genius, are you going to smart these thugs away?
Jo-An-4354969
Exactly...what ridiculous thoughts...
If any thug ever terrorizes you like this, you can regurgitate those exact words.
FactCheck,
You say that, yet look at the wording of your posts. Do you honestly think that Jo-An, or myself, aren't capable of weighing the pros and cons on our own?
I don't know if you're a guy or a gal, but I have this problem with a lot of guy buddies saying similar things as you. It's almost patronizing, the way some men specifically target females with what I consider fear mongering arguments. As if we aren't aware of the criminal aspects of society, and if you just inform us of them we'll run out at purchase guns.
ThePunisher,
Yeah, because guns are the only thing that can keep her safe and she's compeletly unaware of crime or how to defend herself, and she needs you and the rest of these strangers telling her how she's going to be raped or beaten because she doesn't own one. And, it is inevitable, that all of these horrible things will happen if she doesn't immediately join the NRA and carry 8367 hand guns at any given time.
OR....
She's come to a logical conclusion in her life, that you are NOT privy to, that gun ownership isn't for her.
Which one sounds ridiculous to you?
Of course you are both capable, I am just adding a little more info to your weighing scales. Disregard it if you find it inapposite. This is how persuasion works. And you are doing the exact same thing in the opposite direction.
You may have a problem with men targeting females with fear mongering. I have a problem with men targeting women for violent sexual hate crimes.
Your answer is to weigh the pros and cons, and decide to not carry a gun because you don't think it prevents/stops crime and that, in order for it to work, it would require the perfect confluence of events. If you were this woman in this story, you are beaten and tied every time.
My answer is to weigh the pros and cons, and decide to carry a gun because I would like to be able to stop my rapist - if the perfect confluence of events arises - or to at least try if the circumstances aren't perfect. If I am this woman, I have a chance to resist being tied and beaten.
Results. Under your scenario - 100% rate of being beaten and tied. Under my scenario - less than 100% chance of being beaten and tied, if circumstances arise such that my gun would prevent it.
All I am saying is I like my odds better than yours. I'm sure that man in the supermarker in my link, and many others in that market, apprecieted not being stabbed, even if it was preventable with a gun only under the ideal set of circumstances that just happened to arise that day.
Here is another story involving the perfect set of events, where an elderly man prevents more violent crime using his legal firearm: http://www.complex.com/city-guide/2012/07/customer-defends-internet-cafe-from-two-thieves
But, do what you want. You're a grown up. I can only hope to persuade for your ultimate benefit. I want everyone to have that chance of avoiding being the victim of a violent crime if the circumstances are right. You can intellectualize it all away if you want though.
Sarah, ok, I'll bite. You are correct, guns aren't the only thing that can keep people safe. But what jo-an and william fail to realize is that not everyone lives in their perfect worlds. But you are correct, I couldn't care less what they do with the safety of their lives as long as they don't tell me how the world turns and anyone not living in their utopia are riduculous.
Sarah made my point perfectly,
I realize not everyone lives in a perfect world...
I just don't happen to believe the answer to a violent crime is MORE violent crime. This was about a person getting attacked BECAUSE she was GAY...and people NOT believing her....the very FIRST comment was:
Nobody is going to intimidate me into buying a gun...I don't really care if YOU feel the need to own one... I don't...
I don't know if people saying she should have a gun are advocating for mandating guns; I think it was just more of a strong suggestion.
Did you know in some areas they are trying to outlaw certain dog breeds (like pitbulls)? Seems ridiculous, since with the proper training and the right person, these breeds can be extremely useful and not dangerous. I see guns the same way. If you don't feel comfortable owning a gun, don't own one. However, if someone is comfortable with guns and wants one for protection, own one.
Can't we just live and let live? Why does there have to be a right person and a wrong person here?
OK Jo-An. We are only attempting to persuade, not intimidate. The decision, absolutely, is ultimately yours. Pleasant chatting and have a good one.
It used to be Dobermans, and now it's pit bulls....I've never had a mean dog, but I don't mind people wondering...
Thanks, you too.
We can point to political rhetoric and religious fanatics for these increases in hate-crimes.
Christianity does not support this type of behavior.
Nor do any of the Christian churches I am aware of encourage such hate crimes.
Really? Them point to it or shut up liberal hater. Why are the police questioning this?
The police aren't "questioning this".
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
"Lincoln police so far have no suspects, Officer Katie Flood said, leading some to question whether Rogers made it all up"
The police aren't questioning it. "Some" idiots like you want desparately to blame the victim.
Is it made up? I don't know and neither do you, but the police have NOT said they suspect ANYTHING.
Tether: Actually, Jesus does not support this behavior; many Christians do.
In my church, they had a very public discussion on this topic and the decision was that if a homosexual came to our church to join, they would be escorted out the door because of their bad influence.
Here's a good example: http://carm.org/christianity-and-homosexuality
Tether...Westboro Baptist is a christian church. As well as Abiding Truth Ministries, Coral Ridge Ministries, Dove World Outreach Center, and Faithful World Baptist Church. These are hate groups. In fact, Fred Phelps has been quoted as saying that for every one verse that speaks of God's love there are two that speaks of God's hatred. This is the modern christian world view, one of exlusion and hatred. Hating the sin and loving the sinner is still hatred...although I think most that spout that crap still don't "love" the sinner. We don't exclude and deny rights to people we love.
jrae - you just stereotyped both camps.
"We can point to political rhetoric and religious fanatics for these increases in hate-crimes."
Increases in hate-crime? You must have been born yesterday. Hate crime use to be called "cleansing".
Yeah, here's the thing. U cannot, CANNOT, discriminate against someone because of their religious beliefs, ethnicity, ETC.
That MEANS YOU!!, and those who tried to say they would PROHIBIT Chick Fil A from locating in Boston, he has NOW RETRACTED that statement AFTER HE WAS INFORMED HE COULD NOT Legally PROHIBIT them from locating in his city, NOR construct BARRIERS that cause them to meet A STANDARD THAT IS NOT EQUALLY APPLIED to others.
See, that's DISCRIMINATION. That makes you and the rest of the HOMOSEXUALS trying to PROHIBIT Chick Fil A from doing business, RELIGO-PHOBES, A BIGOT in other words.
So I guess that makes U a HYPOCRITE, doesn't it??
Here's that FALSE report from the HOMOSEXUAL who said some MARINES attacked HIM. He wasn't prosecuted either as the POLICE were probably INTIMIDATED by the LOBBY that supports PERPETUAL VICTIMS:
Charges dropped against local Marine in alleged attack
Judge's ruling cites lack of evidence against Orefield native.
September 17, 2010|By Pamela Lehman, OF THE MORNING CALL
A judge has ruled that Keil Cronauer, a Marine corporal from Orefield accused in an alleged attack on a gay man in Georgia, will face no charges.
After reviewing a security video, Judge Claire Williams said Thursday no evidence against Cronauer existed and dismissed all charges against him in the June 12 attack in Savannah.
A security video shows Cronauer only pointing at Daly, but not involved in the attack, Masenheimer said. During a recent court hearing, Daly testified that Cronauer became agitated and uncomfortable when he found out Daly was gay, but that Cronauer did not physically assault him, the Savannah Morning News reported.
"
If you had accepted the fact that beavers and wood were made for each other before this happened you would've avoided all this, if it happened at all.
EggsCalibur, that comment is ignorant on so many levels. Nothing like blaming the victim.
You are a bigot and an idiot
EggsCalibur -
You and your homophobic attitudes are the root of the problem NOT the solution.
This lady deserves much kudos and support for having the courage to come forth.
Remember, homophobia lives just across the street from racism (and a multitude of other "isms".
Makes for an ugly society.
Eggs
This isn't the place for you to come out. But I give you credit for doing so.
Why don't you back in your bedroom in your mom's house and pop your pimples.
The Hetero-phobes are coming out of the woodwork! Just like the cockroaches (pun intended) that they are!
Hey Eggs .....
WHAT ?????????????
Always three sides; waiting for the other shoe.
Religion creates bigotry and homophobia, period. I love how the christians will claim the bible is against it. Well the bible also says dont eat meat on friday, women shouldn't wear pants and we are all suppossed to sacrafice animals to god. Why aren't all these rules followed then? They ARE IN THE BIBLE! Chrisitans pick and choose the rules they want to follow to fuel their bigoted aganedas...
Sure, blame religion. You have to "blame" someone for your choices... I guess every single person in the world that's against homosexuality is religious. What an intolerant, hateful nutjob you are.
projecting again Timmy boy? Maybe you're right but for centuries the church has lead the way for persecution of gays. I'm sure that didn't mold people's thoughts. Not at all. What a dolt.
Dan, every religion has a fringe group of radicals. We shouldn't demonize an entire group for the actions of the minority.
Pot - meet kettle.
So Timothy if it's not religion based then tell us why your against homosexuality Einstein.
Anyone who truly lives in faith knows that Christ was about love and forgiveness and he would be the first to speakout against that deplorable act. In the book of Acts, Peter has a vision from God that basically states that nothing is to be considered non-kosher or halal. Also, Christ sacrafice was the last one! To Charlie, no true Christian would ever vistit this heinous act on another human being and still profess a love of Christ.
You are at least an ignorant idiot or just plain stupid. Worse than that you are probably just an Christian hating bigot.
The Bible never says any of the things you stated. Women are only told to not try and look like men, not to "not wear pants". Context and meaning apparently are not your strong suit, but I can tell you have never actually read the Bible at all and only spout off the stupidity you heard from others about what they think they thought it might have meant maybe at some time. LOL!
Being "agains homosexuality" is like being "against gravity", or "against water", or against soil. Religion is a choice. Homosexuality isn't. Now thats "Truth" you can live by.
juststarting--
Maybe it is because homosexuality is just not natural! Two gay people can't procreate. That is not based on religion but just the way we are as humans. But that being said, I am saddened that anyone would beat another human being for whatever reason. I personally don't care what two people do in the privacy of their own home. But I don't like how it is being promoted on TV. Seems like Hollywood promotes homosexuality in almost every show. How things have changed from "Happy Days" to "Glee"!
As usual, what "Christian Values" are, and what the "Bible says", depends on which "Christian" you talk to.
Menonites, Pentecostals, Amish are Christians, right? No pants allowed. Just one more good argument for the separation of church and state.
@ Just as mad as you
And if you really studied the Bible then you would know that Pauls gospel was considered heritical by all of the apostles that spent a year with Christ rather than an hour. In fact, Peter's first disciple, The First Bishop of Rome, wrote a 1000 page tretise called "The Pauline Heresies." No, the Gospel of Paul is pretty well considered by those in the know as an afterthought to avoid adult circumcison. Probably written just before the first conference at Nicea, you know, the one where a bunch of iron age fleabags got together and decided what would be in your precious inviolate Bible. In fact, they rewrote it so well the first time, that it was at leasts 10 years before they got together and rewrote it again. Apparently, you don't know dink about Christianity. This atheist knows it better than you.
Sooooo....I bet you have a pretty explanation for why "believe my way or be tortured for eternity" is love.
Having studied the Bible extensively, Dan makes a good point which people choose to attack on minor issues without really addressing his point. The Bible does have a lot of requirements which are not followed by Christians. Most Christians would say most of those requirements are part of the OT and no longer applicable. OK, then. So, where does Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Or abortion? Or any of the other myriad of things today's Christians judge other's on? He didn't! In fact, He explicitly says it's not for YOU to judge! He wants you to worry about YOU.
Of course there are wonderful, true Christ like examples in Christianity today. They are getting rather hard to find, though. It seems it is easier to find Christ like examples in non-Christians. That is a serious problem for Christians and yelling at those who would hold up the mirror in no way solves the problem. In fact, the more Christians attack those who would point out the error in thought, the more people leave Christianity. The fastest growing segment in the US is the non-religious. People are disgusted by the hypocrisy of religion and twisting of Jesus's message for political propaganda.
It seems to me that the time has come for the real Christians to take a stand against the false prophets who speak for them out of hatred and bigotry.
Gandhi was talking about Timothy1Mil when he said this:
So let me get this straight...If ANYONE disagrees with the left on A given issue, they're HATERS, part of a hate group, a religious fanatic??
As far as this story goes, there is an expression of doubt from the POLICE investigating it. I give her 5 pinnochios, just another activist trying to push an agenda using profarications. How many is that now of these FAKE stories planted in the media now??
And about Chick Fil A, are they NOT entiled to express their opinion without being called HATERS??? Each and EVERY AMERICAN is permitted to express their opinion, and they shouldn't be demonized for it, This I guarantee u will BACKFIRE on the left as people will see what HYPOCRITES u r.
We are 'open minded', everyone can express their opinion, says the left. UNTIL u say something that DIFFERS from their latest cause celeb...then it's WAR.
Not too good at reading comprehension are you? The story says because the police have no suspects, there are some (as in people, NOT police) that question wether it happened. It does not say anything about the police themselves doubting it.
All of this left vs right crap is whats wrong with America today. We can't simply agree to disagree. I can't speak for all but I'm more left on some issues and more right on others. As an American I believe in the Constitution of the USA. I believe in the right to bear arms, (though the arms the founding fathers had are nothing like the ones of today. You had one shot and it took 30 seconds to reload if you were fast) I believe in a secular society and a wall between church and state as described by T. Jefferson, I believe in the First Amendment, and I believe all tax paying and law abiding citizens deserve the same rights regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation. Seems to me that most of those who are "anti-gay" use the bible to justify their stance. They have a right to believe. They do not have the right to pass laws or restrictions based on religious views. That is according to the first amendment, the part that says, "Congress shall recognize no religion." It's good reading and a good reminder of how our country was founded and the principles it was founded upon. The one's our forefathers faught a war for. Many claim to be Christian's and hide behind the moniker to justify their angendas of control and intolerance. What a person "is" is stated clearly by their actions, not by their words.
"Being "agains homosexuality" is like being "against gravity", or "against water", or against soil."
Huh? What's against water or soil? Comparing biological nuances to one of the law of physics is just plain ignorant if not dumb.
Sam: "Menonites, Pentecostals, Amish are Christians, right? No pants allowed. Just one more good argument for the separation of church and state."
Amish are Menonites. They are actually proof of the Constitutional separation of church and state and liberty in this country because they are allowed to live outside of the mainstream in peace. As we live in the secular (including the political realm) and treat religion as an individual, private affair, they live in a religious community and consider the secular realm to be "outside". As they are a religious minority community, there is no danger of them imposing rules on anyone. As they are homogenous, there isn't a "minority" to oppress. Those that don't want to be Amish leave the community. But before you point out that the Puritans or their fellow "Pilgrims" had similar communities and were all about repression, I will remind you that the Puritans were the "State" in Massachusetts Bay Colony while the Pilgrims were the same in Plymouth Colony. The Amish are more like the Pilgrims when they were in Holland. I don't see how their shunning of pride and praising of humility can be considered "bad" qualities. If anything, the Amish would be the antithesis of what you fear. No Menonites are going to force you to grow a beard or wear a dress, nor do they care what you do in the privacy of your home (or anywhere outside of their community for that matter). Unlike many religious sects which thrive on self-righteousness and wish to "convert the wicked", the Amish sense of humility prevents proselytizing.
If it happened, please catch and prosecute these guys. I say if, not because I do not think it might have happened but we have all been pulled into people swearing on every thing they hold dear only to find out later that it was all a lie.
Religion and the little minds that misinterpret its meanings are responsible for these acts.
That's the spirit DANNY..blame those who had NOTHING to do with it because it DIDN'T HAPPEN. See how the hypocrites scapegoat ANYONE who doesn't AGREE wiht their agenda.
And I QUOTE:
"Lincoln police so far have no suspects, Officer Katie Flood said, leading some to question whether Rogers made it all up."
Because there are no suspects people think it is made up? Last I read, those 2 girls who were shot in Texas, there were no suspects. I guess it never happened?
The people who question wether it was made up or not, are probably people who don't mind too much that it happened. Hell, they may even think she kind of deserved it because she is a lesbian.
aquarius,
There are literally thousands of crimes committed that never get suspects. Does that mean they never happened?
Grow the @!$%# up.
Signed, a gun-wielding moderate.
That QUOTE was from the POLICE OFFICER. It won't be the 1st time an ACTIVIST FEIGNED a crime to get attention for their cause. Remember that poor homosexula who said some Marines BEAT HIM UP???
never happened! Then that homosexual who said HE was a hermaphrodite to get married, and was then found to be a liar and trying to FORCE his 'I CAN GET MARRIED IF I WANT' agenda onto the Catholic Church???
Or Dahmer, etc.
aquariaus: there was not a finding that the crime didn't happen, just that there was not enough evidence to support finding the marine guilty.
You may not realize there is a difference, but there is a significant difference.
EggsCalibur -
You and your homophobic attitudes are the root of the problem NOT the solution.
This lady deserves kudos and support for having the courage to come forth. I hope she knows she's not alone.
Remember, homophobia lives just across the street from racism (and a multitude of other "isms".)
Makes for an ugly society.
Sure JL, u on the left AGAIN, show how u support 'live and let live' don't u? Someone is PHOBIC becuase they don't buy into the obvious propaganda the left spews. This story is a FAKE, it didn't happen. wHEN IT'S FOUND TO BE FALSE, WHEN CAN WE EXPECT THE HATE mongers on the left to post their APOLOGIES???
Will you be posting your apology when they catch the people who did this? I highly doubt you will.
Yeah, here's the thing. U cannot, CANNOT, discriminate against someone because of their religious beliefs, ethnicity, ETC.
That MEANS YOU JL, and thos who tried to say they would PROHIBIT Chick Fil A from locating in Boston, he has NOE RETRACTED that statement AFTER HE WAS INFORMED HE COULD NOT Legally PROHIBIT them from locating in his city, NOR construct BARRIERS that cause them to meet A STANDARD THAT IS NOT EQUALLY APPLIED to others.
See, that's DISCRIMINATION JLman. That makes you and the rest of the HOMOSEXUALS trying to PROHIBIT Chick Fil A from doing business, RELIGO-PHOBES, A BIGOT in other words.
So I guess that makes U a HYPOCRITE, doesn't it??
There is no such thing as "homophobia", unless you refer to a psychological condition which is characterized by an irrational fear of men. Even stretching "homo" to mean "homsexual" would imply that someone becomes paralyzed with fear around gay people. Arachnophobia (spiders), acrophobia (heights), hydrophobia (water), Triskaidekaphobia (number 13) all provoke irrational fear, panic, agitation. You are thinking of a condition that would engender a purposeful hate, and that would be "bigotry". What you've done is created a nice, politically correct term which neatly describes "everybody and everything with a contrary opinion to pro-LBGT political agenda." This is great, because it somehow means that those who disagree with the LBGT political agenda can be tarred with the same brush as those who are bigoted or those who disagree with the physical act of homosexuality or those who object on religious grounds. Calling everyone who does not agree with every aspect of the LBGT agenda a "homophobe" is the same as a conservative labeling liberals, homsexuals, Black Panthers, OWS supporters, BlacBloc members, secularists and atheists all as "anarchists" because they wish to upset the conservative concept of social order. In other words, by calling everyone a "homophobe" and attempting to demonize and dehumanize them, you are no better than that which you claim to abhor. Enjoy the title of "anarchist".
ho·mo·pho·bi·a
[hoh-muh-foh-bee-uh] Show IPA
noun
unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia?s=t
I don't believe it happened. Seems like she just wants some media attention.
Based on what Sherlock ?
Why, based on the voices in his head!
Cd,
Bill and his ilk don't use facts it takes to much time to find out. He would rather have others think for him.
I bet you that if she showed you the scars you would not believe it anyway.
Bill, What convinced you...Glenn, Rush, Sean or just DumbFux News in general?
The Police Woman quoted in the article convinced me, along with the many other FALSE claims made by homosexual activists over the past few years:
"Lincoln police so far have no suspects, Officer Katie Flood said, leading some to question whether Rogers made it all up."
By the way, where's the carved in message ? I don't see it, u would think she would display some portion of it. But NOT so. Like the story ITSELF, no evidence aside from her story itself.
Officer Katie Flood said, "Lincoln police so far have no suspects." That's it. Sometimes trails go cold and the bad guys get away. To conclude that because no suspects have been named that the report is false is a reach. To my knowledge, no suspect has been named in the murder of Mollie Olgin either.
If the woman in question made up this story, she should be charged with filing a false report. If not, she should be defended like any other victim. 'Innocent until proven guilty' applies to everyone.
You all sound like fools. Do any of you live here and know what's actually going on? You're basing your information on media reports- even her interview here was not the full thing. Did you hear her repeated statements? Did you hear any questions? You don't know WHAT was ASKED or SAID in the interview. The media wants to to hear only certain things and there's a huge debate on GUN control over this. Really? Why don't you wait for the police to finish their investigation?
I don't believe you actually feel that way. Seems like you just wanted some newsvine attention.
Where the emphasis is, the truth is. And little emphasis is made by her on the physical attack or the attackers... just on her belief others are doubting her story.
There is a political party that seems to hate everyone not 'just like us'. They spread lies and fear to get people to vote for them. They want to create laws to prevent everything 'not just like them'. This behavior has become more apparent with the last election and some real loonies that were voted in. Think a second about which party that is. A recent presidential woman candidate comes to mind as a good example of hate, lies and ignorance.
Your comment just proved it to be democrates.
'Partys' define all people in America who disagree with you? How convenient. And astoundingly oblivious.
What are "democrates"?
Agreed CHANGE, it's the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. They seek to marginalize free speech, religion, anyone or anything that THEY DON'T agree with. While portraying themselves as open minded, freedom lovers, all INCLUSIVE.
Seems like a tragedy that they once were that way. Now they are a collection of special INTERESTS who cater to any & I MEAN ANY fetish that will get them a FEW MORE followers. They just aren't good at math. MOST AMERICANS don't support using the COURTS to overturn something that the PEOPLE of a givens state have by referendum voted on and REJECTED. Even in Cali, they rejected homosexual marriage, and San Fran is in that state!!!
THAT PUTS THEM IN A perpetual minority! Which is fine with me, as I wouldn't vote for anyone who elevates a small groups PRIORITIES to the LEVEL OF A RELIGION and have LITMIS tests that require u to recite the agenda of homosexuals, abortionists, and every other faction they have latched onto to raise money.
I don't like the use of the word "alleged"...I live in Nebraska, and this DID happen, and it sickens me.
Any you know it "DID" happen how?
Sure Crazy pants the NB police are in cahoots with the vicitm just to forward their Liberal agenda.
Yikes you will forward your agenda of hate and ignorance at any cost >
NB is a territory is Canada
Province. New Brunswick is a province. Our only territories are Yukon, Nunavut and Northwest Territories.
This is a hate crime that needs to be investigated. Someone involved will run off at the mouth and they will get caught. People this stupid don't know enough to keep their mouths shut.
Maybe u should READ the story:
"Lincoln police so far have no suspects, Officer Katie Flood said, leading some to question whether Rogers made it all up."
Pardon me, E=MC4, at least I had the country correct and didn't call it a state.
Hey, guess what? That "some" they're talking about? Regular people, not the police. The police would have seen all the injuries and damage, otherwise they would've charged her with filing a false report.
Are you seriously this dense or are you just maliciously trying to twist to your own agenda?
They may file false report charges as well, but that would depend on weather they will pursue it or not. Those on the left will try to say she's being made a VICTIM if they DO file charges. It's happened b4, they cry victim in either case.
Recall the case of the one who said some Marines attacked him because he was homosexual??? They didn't file charges due to PRESSURE from the homosexual lobby. Care to google it???
Actually, they didn't file charges because the attack did happen. What could not be proven was who did it.
I guess all of the multiple break ins, robberies, hit and runs, purse snatches, pick pockets, muggings, drive by shootings, murders, arsons and every other crime for which the police have no suspects don't happen either.
According to your theory, aquarius, if the the police have no suspect, the crime didn't happen, right ?
You must have a really low crime rate (and a really crappy police force) in your world.
Why are you homophobic if you disagree with homosexuality? If it is natural, and homosexuals feel that the majority shouldnt dictate what one does given that they are naturally programmed to be gay, then why do gays disagree with other natural things?
Public nudity? Urinating in public? Defecating on your lawn? Farting and burping at the dinner table? Picking your nose?
ALL of those things are absolutely natural. Yet, we refrain from them in society. Why?
Because these gay people are self-hating and by calling other people names who disagree with their choices, they feel slightly better by directing their hate away from themselves... even if momentarily. "Misery loves company" is abundant among gays, so they try to spread the misery as far and wide as possible...hence all the name-calling and hissy fits at the slightest perceived "wrong."
Rob and Tim - you're both idiots.
If they are self hating, then they really don't need your hate, do they?
Oh Timothy, you're an adorable troll. I'm about as gay as one can get and I'll tell you, I love myself and I'm having a blast in life. I think it tends to be this Puritan suffering that people latch on to that causes the self-hate. Is that it? Do you hate the gays because we're just doing our thing and enjoying the world?
Well, I'll go enjoy what's out there. Enjoy hiding under your rock.
Well, since people like you insist on making their lives miserable, why shouldn't they be entitled to feel persecuted?
Self-hating? I don't think so. The hate's external. You and Rob are classic examples.
No idiots say they're not that stupid.
Rob, you don't have to accept it. That is the American way. Its also the American way to equal rights to all citizens. Your comparison is terrible also. How do you rationlize comparing "Public nudity? Urinating in public? Defecating on your lawn? Farting and burping at the dinner table? Picking your nose" to homsexuality? Are gays having sex in public? I don't think you understand this concept. Go back to Nascar. thats your speed
I use my comparison in a very simple but effective manner. These acts I spoke of are completely natural, but outlawed and frowned upon by all (gays included). They are outlawed because the majority find it repulsive, immoral or adverse to the propr functioning of a society. Why should homosexuality be omitted from the majority rule?
Seeing two men kiss or two women kiss, gazing into one anothers eyes or sharing stories about their love looks odd to most heterosexuals. In fact, it is odd. Just as odd as it is to see someone running around naked, despite the fact it is perfectly natural. So, Im asking for justification.
Also, I have yet to get an answer from ANY gay person on this. Since the line in the sand that opposers of homosexuality draw is considered bigotry...where is YOUR line in the sand? Where do you draw the line on decency in a society?
I say that, because it is obvious you are bigots of MANY natural humans acts and functions.
Also, for the record, Im neither conservative nor religious. Im an atheist, hold not political party affiliation and Im a 12 year active duty veteran.
An outstanding example that it's not just the religious who hate gays; it's also people who just think it's "icky."
Rob, it's obvious that it's not the acts you find repulsive; it's also the whole idea. My brother is gay, and he and his life partner never "kiss or two women kiss, gazing into one anothers eyes or sharing stories about their love" in public.
I draw that line when you want the government to treat the people you hate as 2nd-class citizens, and deny them equal treatment under the law.
I'm not gay, but I suspect many gay folks would say the same thing - they really don't care that you're an ignorant bigot, but they do care that you want to harm gays and that you want special rights which are denied to gays.
Rob, that is an invalid comparison. You are comparing actions a person does, to something a person is.
First--i hope they catch the people who hurt this woman and put them in jail. Second--not all Christians are bigots--mind you some of them are really nasty bigots with really nasty attitudes, but not all Christians are bigots. I am a Christian -- but I know the Bible is a book--it has some good ideas to follow and some not so good ideas--but in the end the Bible and what's in it was written by man and interpruted by man which makes it fallable. When I die I will stand in front of God knowing I did my best to be a good person to all of his creation (that includes, gay and lesbian people, muslims, jews, hindu's and all the other cultures and religions out there) Now I'm sure there will be many who cut me down and tell me I'm no Christian and what not and if that is you--you are entitled to do so. But in the end -- this story is about a woman who got hurt at the hands of another (or others) and whether you agree or disagree with her sexual orientation (which really is no one elses business) she has the right to justice and to live safely in her community. Now begin the cut down...... Have a nice weekend everyone:)
You are no Christian, you are bogus. Try actually reading the Bible and understanding what it says. It is very apparent that you have either never read it all, or maybe skimmed over the few passages you like and totally ignored the ones "you don't like". Try again Judas Iscariot. Calling Christians bigots is a sure sign you are the bigot and hypocrite, and then denying the Bible is the written word of God spoken to men who all said it was God that told them to write down what they did over time periods spanning hundreds of years is further sure proof you are not a believing Christian at all. Christ himself said the law would not pass away, not a jot or tittle, and yet you say it is not the word of God at all but the words of only men. You are a carnal Christian, and that is explained in the Bible also but apparently it is one of those parts you don't like so you ignore it.
The Facts R - and you hateful posts show that you are no Christian either. Now go off and iron your sheets for your next Klan meeting.
Thank you--you are proving my point for me--I don't even have to try. you are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine--and i ask you--were you one of those men God spoke to so you know what he said???? Were you there when they put pen to parchment? I have read a good portion of the Bible--and it's a good book--but that's it a book. Enjoy your name calling and hate spreading -- you will have to answer for your sins as will we all in the end.
No, I think Happy was calling Christians like you bigots. And who are you to determine who is or isn't a Christian?
It's obvious you don't understand the Bible.
Chris - What did I post that was "hateful"? LOL! You are the one that cannot stand the truth. Carnal Christianity does not stand on the word of God, this person does NOT stand on the Word of God because they do NOT believe it is the Word of God, and I will not even try to explain to you anything else because you don't have a clue about what the written word of God is you would never accept that the Word of God was made flesh.
So, you are the one spewing hatred, not I. Get a clue Chris if you can.
The Bible very plainly states the Carnal Christians such as you all will profess one thing you like and ignore what you don't like about the Bible. You are living testaments that what it stated about fleshly driven carnal Christians is true. Try reading it sometime.
Christ said he came the bring a sword, but you all would not understand it, so why should I try and explain it.
LOL! You people call anyone "hateful" that does not "bow" to you and your opinions. You are not God, and I will not "bow" to you. Try and read the Bible at least once before commenting on it.
Wow--The Facts R--you are one very angry individual. I feel sorry for you--all you have done in every single post is be hateful and why because you disagree with someone??? Say what you want but you are a very sad person and I feel bad for such a hateful human being such as you.
Yeah the fact is all people of race, color, ethnicity, religion, politics, etc are equally f***'ed up.
Trying to stay on point with the story...I lived in Lincoln, Ne for almost 10 years. It's a college town with the U of N right there. There is a large LGBT community in town. To MY knowledge most people either excepted it or if they didn't they just looked the other way & "tolerated" it. You have to know that there would be some in the community with a strong hatred & you get a group of them (& too much alcohol) and God knows what people are capable of?! Remember, the state of Nebraska also brought us the Tina Brandon murder. She was killed by some rednecks who felt threatened by her! I for one, believe this lady was victimized & tortured & I hope they catch the creeps that did it!!!
I am perhaps one of those religious fanatics.. I have an understanding of what Scripture calls sinful - and that includes the issues in my own life, areas where I personally fall short. I don't have enough time to keep track of my own shortcomings, much less the vices in someone else's life.
Having said all that, the persons who committed these wrongs are not acting Christ like. Jesus NEVER taught physical abuse or derision. He was kind to all, showing mercy even to those who would eventually murder Him. St. Paul makes it clear that one who hates someone else is a murderer.
I do not approve of the gay lifestyle, based on what God has written. But the same God would find it vile and repulsive to be abusing persons because of orientation. He asks for gentleness in how we treat others. If one claims to follow Christ, then they will see these despicable acts for what they are.. acts of hatred. The perpetrators need to be caught and prosecuted.
Well, he wasn't exactly kind to the people who made their living selling sacrificial animals and other things at the temple in Jerusalem! And I believe he even took a whip to them....not exactly sweetness and light!
What a miraculous recovery. This "incident" stinks of deceit. I will bet you a dime to a dollar that this is a total fabrication.
Time will tell - and if you are wrong, will you apologize? I doubt it.
Will You Apologize for being an idiot Chris? Like NOW?
Charlie, please do not be making this up.
This dingbat should just get a Mossberg 500 pump 12-guage and a 1911, learn how to use them. Then when a bunch of idiots break into her home she could fire a few warning shots thru their chests and all will be well.
Great, now you want to be arming the dingbats. What about the idiots, the dumbies, the trolls, the tards, the numbskulls ? Or are you planning to discriminate against the stupid ?
I wonder of the use of the Obama/Socialist slogan "Forward" is deliberate or coincidental?
The full quote: “ There is fear, but there is resilience. There is forward.” is phrased awkwardly.
If you read that quote without context would you guess: 1) It was a new Obama campaign slogan, or 2) the words of the victim of a hate crime?
I hope the police solve this crime quickly so that justice can be served.
Sorry but often these type of bizarre scenarios tend to be a staged event. I am not claiming that she is lying based on just the info in this article but publicity stunts similar to this scenario are all too common. Leave it to the police and forensics to decide.
This is what happens when gays start marching in parades, want there own holiday and protest that they can not incorporate marriage into their life style. I am not for violence in any matter against anyone for what they believe in however, if you want to live this type of life, stop advertising it and constantly asking for more rights. You should have no more "rights" than anyone els in this Country. There will always be hate crimes against race, gender and life styles. People who commit these types of crimes are the same ones that bust down your door in a home invasion or rob banks, they are nothing but thugs. The Bible has nothing to do with it. As long as gays keep protesting and asking for more than the next guy, there will be attacks on them. My advise is to keep your mouth shut.
Just what rights do gays have that the rest of us don't?
Keeping your mouth shut is excellent advice. Please follow it. What about churches being tax exempt - is that not special treatment.
Matt1006 - "You should have no more "rights" than anyone els in this Country."
Would you agree that they deserve the same "rights" as everyone else, then? I believe that sentiment is at heart of the parades and such. To suggest that they be happy with less or limited rights and to keep their mouths shut in attempt to get anything otherwise is abhorrent advice and contradictory to the very foundation of our country.
They simply want the same rights we all have, no more; including being able to specify their sexual orientation in public without verbal or physical assault.
I'm gonna type real slow so maybe you will read real slow and for a change be able to understand what is being said to you.....
I don't want more rights or even special rights. I DEMAND the same rights. Did you get it that time? I don't really care for the parades and such as for me they are no longer appropriate for me to even bring my child too. I also feel they no longer serve the purpose of raising awareness and to obtain EQUAL rights so my family does not attend. I do not want a holiday. I want to be able to marry the woman I love and to raise our child with the same rights and guarantees heterosexuals have. That is the actual issue. Marriage is not a religious right. You do not have to declare a faith when applying to the STATE to get married. Notice I said state and not church as you don't have to apply at church to get married. Heck, you don't have to even know the person you are marrying you simply must be heterosexual. In some states there is no waiting period. You can meet someone and go to a chapel etc and get married. In some states it's legal to marry your first cousin as long as it's a man and a woman. I don't see anyone voting on whether either of those rights should be allowed so why on earth should someone else get to vote on me having the same rights that you enjoy and take for granted. I don't "advertise" who I am but I refuse to hide it as I am not ashamed and no amount of rhetoric from you or anyone else is going to change that. I don't wish to change how you feel about homosexuality. I am perfectly content to let you live your life as you see fit and ask the same in return. Did it ever occur to you that maybe homosexuals are being so loud about these issues because we are fighting so hard to obtain rights that so many take for granted? Rights that as AMERICANS we are entitled to based on the constitution. The same constitution that gives you the rights you seem to openly exercise. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion etc. That constitution is for EVERY american. It says nowhere that it only applies to heterosexuals.
Funny, I have never heard of homosexuals (or any sexual orientation for that matter) asking for their own holiday. They are not asking for more rights then anyone else just the same rights, no harm in that.
This is why there will never be world peace. People need to mind their own business. She was NOT bothering anyone or doing anything other than living HER life. If you do not like it then move on. Not a single human being was put on this earth to judge other people. It is her life to live and not one single person lives their entire life the way that other people think it should be lived. Grow up and take care of your own and stop worrying about what other people do as long as they are not a volatile threat you or your family directly.
Whether it's true or she's making it up, it's not right that someone physically harm someone else for their sexual preference. I do however think that these matters need to be investigated privately. All it does is fuel the fight between those for and against homosexuality. Think about how much less drama there would be in this world if people lived according to how nature intended (sexually speaking of course)!!
Living how nature intended is debatable when speaking of sexual orientation. If homosexuality were actually unnatural would we see any cases of it outside of humanity? Research that a bit and I'd bet you'll be surprised how many documented cases there are in the animal kingdom.
Really?? What case would they be Son?? We need ACTUAL scientific DATA, not propaganda from pro-homosexual web sites. The APA recently RETRACTED their prior view that homosexuality was GENETIC, didn't they?? Because they KNEW they didn't have the EVIDENCE to substantiate that insinuation, and were CALLED on their 'SOURCES AND METHODS'. Is that CORRECT Son??
Really Shawn? Do you honestly think anyone would choose this lifestyle. It's horrible. Fear of who you are, many lost years coming to terms with who you are, coming out to family, worried about the workplace, I could go on and on. Some of these battles end in your life such as coming out to your family but many go on forever. Nobody would choose this - a world where the majority of the world hates you and wants you to burn you at the stake simply for who you are without even knowing you. You have no insight into what it really means to be a homosexual therefore you know nothing about it. Homosexuality isn't about gay sex - the media just puts its focus there because everything else is normal life stuff that would just bore you to death.
Here's one for primates:
www .springerlink.com/content/t18t2213605303j7/
The statement from the APA has generally been:
While specific causes are unknown, you cannot therefore declare that sexual orientation must be a matter of choice. That would run afoul of the Argument from Ignorance fallacy. The last line of the statement bears repeating, however:
This suggests that, while the specific causes are unknown, the end result is nonetheless a classification of people that deserves protection.
@son prime
Living how nature intended is debatable when speaking of sexual orientation. If homosexuality were actually unnatural would we see any cases of it outside of humanity? Research that a bit and I'd bet you'll be surprised how many documented cases there are in the animal kingdom.
that tired argument again? and how many of those instances in the animal kingdom are viable groupings within their species? or do they just die out as the aberrations that they are?
What a bunch of 'Hetero-phobes" posting here! This reeks of fraud through and through!!! Being a homosexual is nothing to be proud of, on the contrary, being a sexual deviant is a source of shame for most normal people.
how is it any business of yours what other people do in their bedroom. as long as it doesn't involve children or people being forced it's none of anyone's business what others do in their homes.
OK, so you've been given ultimate authority to determine what's a "sexual deviant?"
You can put your putz in a gopher hole for all I care, just quit telling everyone how proud you are to be a deviant!
If you stop telling people how proud you are to be a bigot.
Doubt that's going to happen.
But they want you to be "proud" of them too for having put their putz in a gopher hole, and if you are not then you are arrogant, a homophobe, bigot, hater.
J J, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Yeah-----what he said. thanks Jim.
Yeah, the first thing that came to mind was the boy who claimed he was living in the woods for five years. This looks scripted. Sorry, i question everything....even religion!
The Facts R- first off I don't have a "putz" and even if I did I wouldn't put it in a gopher hole. I can tell you that I don't want, need or request you be proud of anything. I'm not "proud" to be gay but I no longer feel ashamed. I'm not going to discuss with you or anyone else whether it should be "ok". If you don't approve I don't care. If people call you arrogant, a homophobe, bigot or hater it isn't because you aren't "proud" of them it may be that you're arrogant because you feel as though your opinion should matter on this issue because you are heterosexual and part of the mainstream. They may call you a homophobe, bigot and hater because you actively seek to deny fellow americans equal rights. No one asks that you bow to anything other than to bow out of issues that do not pertain to you. If you aren't gay then gay rights really aren't any of your business but seeing as you feel that it is then I think it is pretty accurate to call you arrogant. Just an FYI these rights that you cherish, this freedom of speech, freedom of religion as well as the right to make your own choices in life came from soldiers defending those rights maybe you need to remember that some of those soldiers were and are gay. It's ok for them to defend this country and make sure you go to bed everynight with those rights intact but they somehow aren't entitled to those same rights. Shame on you for thinking you are "entitled" to anything while at the same time trying to keep things from others. Shame on you all.
To all those GLBT types who say "Why do you care? Its not infringing on you...." The fact is that it does, even if it is indirectly. Teenagers are growing up in a world where Homosexuality is considered an acceptable alternative. I speak from personal experience - a lot of our sons and daughters are going down this path - not because they have some genetic inclination to the same-sex - but rather because like a lot of us at that age, they have trouble getting dates and/or relating to the opposite sex. They are lonely for intimacy and social acceptance. In days gone by your parents would have said "You're a beautiful person, and you will grow out of this like all teenagers do. One day, you'll find that special person of the opposite sex and you will be happy. Just concentrate on your studies, and your success, and these other things will come". Homosexuality in my day wasn't even an option. These days - if it ain't working with the opposite sex, why wait? Just hop on over to the other side, and these days you won't even be socially mocked for doing so. Homosexuality is a perversion. It should be tolerated becuase we as Americans have the right to do what we want with our bodies. However, it should not be encouraged.
Um.....I know many heterosexuals who enjoy stuffing it in their woman's gopher hole and have their woman stuff things up their own gopher hole. Homo's don't corner that market.
Charlie,
I am sorry this happned to you. I also am alarmed rom the religious comments made here, and the simple politics that this is wrong.
I also a sorry what you went through.
I served 25 years in the serice, have many gay friends, and for that matter, gay family.
Log story short my friends, this lady is a human being. That is so simple to understand.
Those against gay politics, IMO, you will go to hell.None of you have a right to agree or disagree with what happened. This women was attacked, what does he sexuality have to do with this?
In my retirement years, it is this crap, that makes me vomit.
And to those negative here, especially the religious ones. Let me educate you . There is no heaven, we are going to dust, when we pass on. So mind your own business, take it elsewhere.
Charlie, there are millions out there, that admire, work with you in all facets of life.
Even in the military. Stand up, be strong, and go forward.
I advise to arm yourself, just to piss off some activist. Buy one gun, you will know it well.
God Bless you kid, again, sorry about this, many postive people for you in the world, do not let the few bits of trash harm you verbally.
Good Luck
Hey David, would you rather your child be who they are and want to be, or who you want them to be? You said it yourself "Homosexuality in my day wasn't even an option". So the question is would you rather your son grow up to have a wife and 2 kids that he didn't really want for the simple fact that he had no other options - which is the case for homosexuals in the dark ages. Think of the countless number of people in relationships they never wanted producing kids they never wanted. That's how you dealt with homosexuality prior to modern day tolerance. Not very healthy. We should embrace the fact that our kids can grow up and discover who they are and what they want and be confident in doing so - rather than hiding who they really are only to emerge later in life with permanent problems. But than again this is about you not about them.
The FALSE REPORT by that HOMOSEXUAL:
Charges dropped against local Marine in alleged attack
Judge's ruling cites lack of evidence against Orefield native.
September 17, 2010|By Pamela Lehman, OF THE MORNING CALL
A judge has ruled that Keil Cronauer, a Marine corporal from Orefield accused in an alleged attack on a gay man in Georgia, will face no charges.
After reviewing a security video, Judge Claire Williams said Thursday no evidence against Cronauer existed and dismissed all charges against him in the June 12 attack in Savannah.
WAAAAA! I deserve special treatment cause Im a freak.
WAAAA WAAA WAAA
I should get tax breaks and hold everybody els hostage because Im choosing to be a freak.
WAAAA WAAA WAAA
I should be able to adopt babies and convince them that being a freak is normal even tho they werent made that way
WAAAA WAAA WAAA
and if you dont pay attention to me Il lash out in some petty penal way that cost your company or society as a whole lots of money and brings everything to an inefficient grinding halt
mike-32658799 - What I don't want to see is someone turning to homosexuality because they don't get enough attention from the opposite sex, and they feel lonely for some intimacy. Do you think this is a good reason to be a homosexual!?
What stupidity! People don't "turn" to homosexuality, David; they are born that way. The choice can be made by them to live as heterosexuals -- thus living a lie. Many of them discover, after years of living those lies, that they cannot live that way any more, and they come out of the closet.
Please tell us what you think is a "good" reason for being a bigot.
david, it doesn't happen that way. my teens and early twentys were bereft of female companionship (I'm a hetero male) and I never felt like turning to guys for sex, it was always women that I wanted. if you ask a gay person, they were always attracted to people of the same sex as them.