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Subscribe to RSSIn a city with one of the largest gay communities, the Vatican on Friday named San Francisco's newest archbishop: a man who is a strong opponent of same-sex marriage.
The central governing body of the Roman Catholic Church picked Bishop Salvatore Cordileone, who is currently the bishop in the Diocese of Oakland, Calif. Cordileone, who will soon govern more than 432,000 Catholics in San Francisco under his new title, has publicly backed bans for same-sex marriage.
Cordileone, 56, supported California's controversial Proposition 8, the San Francisco Chronicle reported. During the state's November 2008 election, Proposition 8 barely passed with a 52 percent vote and contradicted the California Supreme Court's ruling that had legalized same-sex marriage just five months before.
When interviewed by the Catholic Radio Network around that time, Cordileone characterized same-sex marriage as a plot by "the evil one" to destroy morality in the modern world, according to the Chronicle.
Friday's appointment comes after the resignation of San Francisco's current Archdiocese, 76-year-old George H. Niederauer, who held the position since late 2005.
"I look forward to assuming my new pastoral responsibilities with and for the priests and people of the Archdiocese of San Francisco," Cordileone said in a press conference statement.
"This isn't a marriage made in heaven," Tom Ammiano, a gay state assemblyman who represents San Francisco, told the Chronicle. Ammiano did say he's willing to discuss gay marriage with Cordileone.
In February, a federal appeals court found Prop 8 unconstitutional, but the U.S. Supreme Court will probably have the final say in its constitutionality.
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Leave a Comment:
This is a guy who plays dress up in order to believe in fairy tales...WHO CARES what they think.
This is America where freedom rings, remember freedom?
If one group has rights, all groups have the same rights, regardless of which fairy tale they believe in.
I fully support the right of homosexuals to be as miserable as the rest of us.
WOW?
Unless they disagree with we the corporations that is.
You have every right to disagree with me, doesn't make you correct, but you have every right.
Again, who cares what people who play dress up and believe in fairy tales have to say about the rights of Americans.
I know right? That people still care about what a church says is hilarious huh?
Yup, the guys that wear dress like cassocks,embroidered mumus, red shoes and beanies have a problem with "gay" things. Yup guys that think sex is icky and must be given up unless it is with little boys have a problem with "gay" things.
so those hopeless altar boys are condemned to be victims and have no hope of patrimony?
A conservative for Bishop of SF and a university in Peru getting its Catholic identity pulled by the Vatican. Oh life is going to be interesting. Georgetown you may be next.
KKKaptain,
I just opened another Amazon account and bought 4 books on logic, reason, and reality. For every one of you, there are 5 gay guys with more money, plus a couple straight ones who think your small mindedness is funny. Bigotry is dying, evolve or get out of the way.
@ We the Corporations #1.9
Funny you should mention evolution...
Do you know what the first Law of Nature is? Survival of the individual.
Do you know what the second Law of Nature is? Survival of the Species.
Now, not that the human species is endangered or anything, but from a strictly scientific point of view, a homosexual relationship violates the second Law of Nature.
Funny isn't it?
BTW, I was raised Catholic, but I gave it up for Lent.
Oh and by the way. . . a HUGE CONGRATS to France, Scotland and New Zealand, the latest countries to say YES to marriage equality this year ! We luv 'ya ! ! ! Wishing you all the best ! ! !
But what they don't want you wankers to know is: Does the Pope Masturbate?????
Dumbfarmboy, there have always been gays and lesbians you silly silly man. There are also thousands of other species where homosexual behavior has been observed.
JimD, if he does, he's going to hell. . .says so in the bible.
what's (not so) funny is that people would actually force their religious superstitions onto others using the force of law
DumbFarmBoy,
Do you have a point? If marriage was strictly about pro-creation and the survival of the species, we'd deny it to everyone who's infertile or too old to have children.
Everyone Else,
I'll pay someone a million dollars if you can come up with a logical answer to this question, which by the way is the legal answer to continuing the ban on same sex marriage...
Point One: Marriage is not to be confused with Holy Matrimony. Marriage is a legal contract, governed by contract law, predating organized religion. This is why people get married everyday without stepping foot in a church. That's also why the church doesn't oversee the divorce, or child custody issues.
So, here's the question -
If the sole difference between a heterosexual and homosexual marriage, is the gender of a single party, what is inherent in that party's gender that would lead to the downfall of society?
Now, remember, before you start with the strawman arguments, we already have laws on the book prohibiting all of the following, necrophilia, pedophilia, polygamy, beastiality, and marrying inanimate objects. Ergo, if any of those are your reasonings for not accepting gay marriage, you have to show a link between the only difference between gay marriage and straight marriage (that party's and gender) and those things.
Anyone???
Got a better question: Where in the bible does JESUS say homosexuality is a sin? (This is usually where the bible-quoters disappear from the dialog.)
Watching,
Or they start quoting Paul. They're big fans of quoting him and calling it Jesus.
Bet any amount of money that little boys are eye candy for this guy who lokes to play dress up!
What I don’t understand is why being gay has to change things there are many people out there with sexual strangeness some people like sex with feet or with dogs or like blow jobs or pearl necklaces‘. So why would that change anything to be honest I don’t what to know if some one is gay I don’t see people I first meet and shack my hand and say hi I like blowjobs would seem kind of weird if not outright rude to me so why would gay people be any different I’m not saying they cant do it by all mean have fun but I don’t really want to know. I don’t go around insisting that people except me for wanting nothing but blowjobs when having sex in fact I most likely would not say anything less I was about to have sex with that person what is really interesting to me is why do they want everyone to know so bad seem really odd. do they feel guilty so they need everyone to make it ok who cares what everyone thinks just do what you want in your bed but we all don’t want to know what you do in bed.
So what?! It isn't like he's the first bigot to live in San Francisco, and most Catholics ignore the Pope when it comes to most issues anyway.
Everyone is not on planet earth to procreate. Some of our assumptions are wrong. Plus, why do heterosexuals use birth control. Perhaps homosexuality was meant as birth control. I believe everything we need already exists in nature. And where in the Bible is marriage defined? It is a social institution?
Tough city in which to take such a stance.
1) You just made up these "laws"
2) Homosexuality is found in many species and has an evolutionary advantage in each case (social cohesion, care for related young in resource scarce environments, etc.)
QUOTE:
"Got a better question: Where in the bible does JESUS say homosexuality is a sin? (This is usually where the bible-quoters disappear from the dialog.)" END QUOTE
In answering a question about the resurrection of the dead Jesus answered with a quote from Exodus 3:6 and focused on the present tense of the verb (Matt 22:31,32). By implication of what was said, Jesus showd scripture can answer questions even when the topic is not being obviously discussed.
When Jesus quoted Genesis and creation He said God made them male and female and the reason for marriage was the creation of male and female (Matt 19:4-6). The only way homosexuality can come about is through corruption; something must go wrong in order to get other than male and female. Jesus upheld creation of male and female as well as that creation being the reason for marriage. So in the same manner that Jesus used scripture to answer about the resurrection, by pointing to the implications of scripture, so too Christians point to Jesus' answer on male and female and marriage in reference to homosexuality.
So yes, Jesus did (and does) say something on the topic. The words of Jesus, the Old Testament, as well as His creation are all in agreement (and if you believe who He says He is, He is the author of all three).
Homosexuality is sin, it could be nothing less, as it needs corruption in order to exist. It is an aspect of the corruption of the world and so is not from the Father (1 John 2:15,16).
Do you know what the second Law of Nature is? Survival of the Species.
Don't worry we've got survival of the species covered. We just keep getting straight people to have us.
I say SF should pass a law making the Church subject to taxation and all of our laws; tax them and lock away the child predators and the Church administrators that enable and/or shield them.
Religious folks are crazy. Completely and utterly nuts.
I'll support their right to be nuts, however, just keep your craziness out of my secular laws.
Catholic priests, the world's foremost authority on matters of human sexuality. OK then.
Thankful, great post. I will add 1 Corinthians chapter 6 and 7.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6:9-10 (KJV)
Good for the Archbishop, standing up for the teachings of Christ.
Oh. So let's understand this. The Pedophile Catholic Cult, who has tens of thousands of raped, molested and abused children in the US alone (that we know of) to be blamed for... who then protected all the rapists, and still protects them today. This filthy, goddam Pedophile Catholic Cult is going to NOW give us lessons on sexual morality?
Get real.
the jesus-myth is not quoted in the BuyBull as saying ONE WORD about Homosexuals, Linda. So, stop lying -- because i understand your mythical jesus creature didn't care for liars much.
Why is this news since the church preaches this anyway? What was he supposed to say if he wanted to be a priest? I can't personally imagine why anyone would want to be, and I don't agree with him at all, but the Catholic Church has a long history of condemning gays while sheltering pedophiles. Why is this news?
I just checked with Jeff Bezos (the CEO of Amazon). He doesn't care about losing your account. All you ever bought there was a pair of nose-hair-clippers, and those were on sale. Jeff seems to be doing fine even after you've left their customer base. Now, they just have 133,665,862 - 1 = 133,665,861 customers with verified Amazon Accounts.
Gee, over 133 Million customers. I think they'll get over losing you. The LARGEST INTERNET RETAILER IN THE WORLD -- they can handle it, punkin.
Justifying something because it is "found in nature" is a ridiculous argument. So are murders, thieves, liars, bigots and the list goes on.
Evolution is not always a positive thing.
Do you know how evolved Germany, Iceland and Italy are? The age of consent is 14. In Japan it is 13.
Personally, as a Christian man I feel no need to pass laws restricting others behavior. I do however wish we could use the language properly. Heterosexual unions throughout history have been called marriage. A homosexual union should have a different word, because it is a different thing, kind of like how we use other words to help us differentiate similar things. The proper use of language helps with understanding.
My personal belief is that a traditional marriage / home is the healthiest method of raising a family. That however is not the only reason for marriages / unions. I don't know if homosexuality is a choice or a disposition. I do know that it is defined in the New Testament in unambiguous terms. Whether or not Jesus concurred I don't know. Do I think that homosexuals will make it to heaven? Yes I do.
Here's why - if you believe God is God, and if you believe Jesus is God's Son, and that Jesus died on the cross and was raised from the dead to pay for our sins, and that forgiveness is granted through grace, no sin is any worse than another. Unrepentant sin is an issue, but I see nothing that tells me I have to be "pure" at the moment of my death in order to be allowed into God's Kingdom.
For those without faith, this issue is simpler yet - how about we let each other be as happy as we can be, and stay out of each others private lives?
First off I don't give a rats ass if you are gay or straight. What I do care about is if you are going to purposely run around shoving it in every ones face. Would those of you who are gay, appreciate it if all the heteros ran around flaunting their hetero-ness all the time? I doubt it.
Now. A lot of people on here seem to claim homosexuality is normal in animal behavior and therefore it is okay in human behavior. With animals, normally it is done to establish dominance over the others of their species pack/group. It is not done on the basis of love as in the case of humans. An alfa male dog will do it to let the others know he is the pack leader and chief breeder to the females and not to challenge him. It is also seen in ape and monkey packs. So please don't try and justify it because you saw a male dog being plugged by another male dog. Otherwise the next thing some of you will want to normalize is humping someones leg or worse yet interspecies sex, like when the dog tries to hump the cat. Look on youtube. Someone probably posted one of those videos up there.
BTW, the definition of marriage is.... "When misery triumphs over loneliness"
Sarah,let me get this straight; so because there are exceptions and not all couples can reproduce we should throw out the rule? marriage is to protect children. france did studies on these they are very secular.
Here on Saturday morning we have the standard Newsvine pro/con arguments on the issue of same-sex marriage:
1. "I hate the Catholic Church therefore anything written about it should be condemned by non-religious bigots."
2. "Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, therefore it must be okay."
3. "I hate being married so gays should be allowed to be a miserable as me."
4. "I hate being me so therefore everything should be mocked and ridiculed."
Entertaining enough with my morning coffee I suppose but not really related to the article. The article is about the naming of a new archbishop for the archdiocese of San Francisco. All this does is report a fact. The reporter thought he would make a few points by trying to introduce controversy into a non-controversial story. Why would anyone be shocked or even mildly surprised that a Roman Catholic Bishop opposes same-sex marriage? What exactly is the story here? Also Mr. Reporter, Catholic Bishops do not "govern" the members of their diocese, they advise, guide and "shepherd"; hence the shape of the Bishop's staff (symbolic of the staff carried by shepherds).
Melisa,
Wrong. Marriage is a secular contract we enter into that comes with over 1000 benefits. If it was just about "family", well then, how about all those people who choose NOT to have children.
And we should change it, because it's unconstitutional. That's why.
Over half of Americans still believe in marriage between a man and a woman. Why is it surprising that a Catholic Bishop would feel this way as well? The real bigots are those who don't recognize the deeply felt religious beliefs that many people in this country still have.
Sarah ... your million is safe. The same-sex opponents have never come up with a defensible argument against same-sex marriage that didn't require them to start quoting bible fables. Even at the Prop 8 trial, the "expert" witnesses were unable to name one societal downside to same-sex marriage and, in fact, one of them recently switched his position from being against to being in favor of same-sex marriage.
Those beliefs are irrelevant when discussing civil marriage because that's a matter of the state, not the church.
Well, Sarah, I'll say first that I do not have strong feelings one way or the other regarding the legal recognition of same sex marriage. If society wants to recognize unions between a man and another man, or a woman and another woman, as equivalent to unions between a man and a woman, then that should be the law of the land.
But, respectfully, I do challenge almost everything you say to Melissa.
Marriage was originally about the raising of children, and less happily, about the possession of women, by men. A man was legally responsible for the children born out his official union to his wife. A woman was supposed to love, honor and obey.
Today as we achieve greater equality between the sexes, when many forms of contraception make child-bearing more a matter of choice, and when the paternity of a child can almost always be established, these aspects of marriage are fading in importance. But they do still influence our attitudes and form the basis for much of marriage law.
I'm also unclear on from what source you derive the 1000+ benefits of marriage. While I'm quite sure there are major benefits to marriage, I suspect that they do not number in the 100s, or 1,000s.
These points, however, are largely side issues.
I have biggest issue with the above claim.
I do not believe that the promise of equal protection under the law guarantees that society must recognize any and all commercial/romantic unions between two or more consenting adults as constituting a marriage. If two men [or two woman] can claim a constitutional right to have their personal relationship recognized as a marriage, than why cannot a union between one man and two women, or between one woman and two men make a similar claim?
Because many of us find such unions morally repugnant?
Such attitudes were prevalent towards same sex unions less than a generation ago. Today such opinions are considered almost medieval.
Tomorrow?
The same might be said regarding marriages between first cousins, which is legal in some, but not all states, or between two 17-year-olds: legal in some states, illegal in others.
In many cases, the laws regarding marriage may be well-thought out: we probably do not want to allow a brother and sister to marry, or two 13-year-olds. In other cases the reasons for these laws may be outdated and need revising. But, just because a law is nonsensical does not make it unconstitutional, and society as a whole should share in the decision as to which unions constitute a marriage, because society as a whole will bear the burden, in terms of tax law, divorce law, and child custody cases.
So I am very resistant to the notion that homosexuals have a Constitutional right to marry, and if the issue is settled in a court case it will open a Pandora's Box of logically linked cases, as all manner of unions between two or more people seek the same protection under the law accorded monogamously inclined homosexuals. If you don't think such unions exist out there in meaningful numbers, I think you'd be surprised.
Such a decision would also [in my view] further weaken the Constitution, making it a document whose words may be interpreted in almost any manner in response to public opinions, or the opinions of the 9 supreme court justices. A garment which fits all shapes and sizes, in fact, fits none, and a document suited to any legal interpretation, is in fact suited to none.
Davefromdanapoint-
Heteros DO flaunt their hetero-ness. It's pushed it in our faces every day. When you hold hands in public. When you give you husband/wife a little kiss on the cheek. When you enjoy any of the rights afforded to you by the secular institution of marriage. When a widow or widower inherits their join property. When you can visit your loved one in the hospital without securing a power of attorney to do so.
And that's why gays seem so "in your face" these days. We're sick of it. We've been here for all the same thousands of years that modern man has existed, and unless another Hitler with a social/master race genetic engineering agenda rises to power, we will always be here.
And YES, homosexual behavior is seen in nature in HUNDREDS of species. It IS part of nature, and it always will be.
To Bruce-308647,
As stated earilier in this thread, marriage has NOTHING to do with religion. It is a government contract that has changed many, many times over the past several thousand year and will continue to do so. You say we're bigots for not recognizing "the deeply felt religious beliefs that many people in this country still have." Sorry, but we DO recognize it, and we say you can keep it. No skin off my nose what you believe. But your beliefs should not be forced upon me/us, any more then the Taliban forcing their beliefs on women or those they deem 'infidels'.
That's the whole point. If you don't like gay marriage, don't have a gay wedding. But that doesn't give those with "the deeply felt religious beliefs" the right to force those beliefs on ANYONE, or to deny the GLBT community that most basic SECULAR right. The right to enter into the SECULAR, non-religious, legal contract of marriage.
Gays are not looking for "special rights". We just want the same rights that evey other American has; the rights that should be guaranteed to us by the US Constitution. Yet, it's those with a religious agenda that are most vocally and vitriolicly standing in the way of Freedom, Liberty, Equality, and Justice of ALL Americans.
As usual, the left-wing loons spout a bunch of crap that they KNOW are lies. But, they don't give a dam* about the TRUTH. If a LIE suits their agenda, they will continue to espouse it despite all evidence to the contrary.
According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the incidence of pedophilia in the Catholic Church is no higher than that of any other religion. There have been more lawsuits filed against the Catholic Church, but that is because of their deep pockets.
The sad TRUTH is that the organizations with the HIGHEST incidence of pedophilia are the TEACHERS' UNIONS.
Of course, you'll NEVER see that trumpeted by the media since those groups are such staunch supporters of the Democratic Party.
What exactly is "forced" on you, myname123?
No, it isn't. There is no requirement in the United States for people to have children/procreate in a marriage, so don't tell lies by trying to suggest marriage is for protecting children. Marriage is a civil, secular agreement entered into by the two adults getting married. There is no further requirement for them to procreate once married. Having children is voluntary.
france did studies on these they are very secular.
myname123: So isnt canniblism, filicide, geronticide, infanticide, parricide. So i guess we should legalize everything that you see in nature? I wouldnt mind being able to whip it out and piss whereever i desire.
DMORGAN: That's nice, myname, but the point being -- it's the Right Wing that keeps saying it's "unnatural" -- when that fact is, it occurs in nature. Nobody is just making the stand-alone statement that "homosexual relationships in humans are validated because these relationships are also documented in thousands of other species all over the planet..." The factual statement is simply being made in reply to the WRONG assertion by right-wing liars who keep saying "it isn't natural" -- when, in fact, it is.
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myname123: You mean what liberals, including gays, do every single day?
DMORGAN: Again with your lies. Is being dishonest the only way you can make an argument? Nobody is forcing you or anyone to be gay. Nobody is forcing you to attend a gay wedding or even go near one. Nobody is forcing you to say hi to a gay couple. You can still sit in your cult building and hate gay people all ay long! Which you'll probably do anyway... The ONLY thing that is being sought is EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW, where adult gay consenting couples are allowed equality for entering into a marriage together by the government (not by your filthy goddam cult -- they can continue to discriminate just like the do now!) So, nobody is forcing anything upon you...if your own argument has ANY merit at all, there is no reason to lie and suggest otherwise. Stick to facts and debate honestly, unless you're simply a coward and incapable of being honest.
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myname123: Well lets start with all the things libs are banning right now. Including free thought.
DMORGAN: Wow, you still cannot be honest. What a cowardly position to keep taking, when your own argument has no merit. You continually have to stoop to lies. Seriously, here has Free Speech been banned? Nowhere!
Wow -- your pathological lies do you no favors whatsoever.
@Dman ... you're trying to use that discredited "slippery slope" argument. The basis for arguing that bans are gay are unconstitutional is not that different forms of marriage are equally valid, but rather the basis is "equal protection." Gays are denied the right to marry the consenting adult to whom they are emotionally and sexually attracted, something that heterosexuals may do. Since no one can have legal multiple spouses, there's no discrimination against people who believe in polygamy. They are certainly free to agitate to change the laws, but they can't rely on the Constitution.
Chik fil a wasn't banned from Boston. The mayor said he didn't like it, but there's is nothing he can do about it if it chooses to open there.
Where was soda banned?
You still haven't named a place where free speech has been banned.
myname, banning chik fil a goes too far IMO, (new york) but boycotting it doesn't. just as an example, several posters on newsvine said they would close their amazon accounts because the ceo supports gay marriage.
so tell me, if "christians" can boycott a company they don't like, why is it so wrong for free and open thinkers to boycott a company that supports policies they don't like?
Ok - Jesus did not specifically say Homosexuality was a sin. Neither did he discuss Child abuse, pornography and drugs. Maybe he felt he did not have to. I don't know. He did say that He and God were together in thinking and since God said Homosexuality is a sin - it remains a sin. Period.
Jesus did turn over the reigns of his church here on earth to his Apostle Peter.
Read this and then tell me if you think it is"alright to be a homosexual and that it is not a sin."
http://bible-truths.com/homosex.htm
Sorry Gilligan/Bob Denver. But you cannot even prove your cult god exists, or that the divine claims about your mythical jesus creature are real. Therefore, it will not be sanguine to affect our legislation and preempt the civil rights of millions of Americans based upon your silly, unprovable cult mythology.
Cheers!
myname123: Banning soda, that wasnt a liberal move?
Banning chick-fil-a from doing business in you city, that wasnt a liberal move and policing thought?
Sorry bud, but because you dont like the truth, doesnt make it a lie.
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Wow. Substituting real education with BuyBull Home-Schooling seems to have messed you up.
1. Soda isn't "free speech". And it's a mayor/council issue if it has happened in a city.
2, Any city, county or state has the right to ban ANY business which openly discriminates against American citizens. That also isn't free speech, that is simply operating within a number of Civil Rights Acts, laws and Constitutional provisions which ban discrimination.
I'm not going to outwardly call you stupid, though I think I might be well within the realm of reasonableness to do so. Nevertheless, if you can't grasp these simple facts, then BuyBull Home Schooling has really damaged you!!
Chick-fil-A has not been banned from any city. Find something else to blame on liberals.
Robert, I do not believe it has been discredited, although you view it as such.
When you say "Since no one can have legal multiple spouses, there's no discrimination against people who believe in polygamy.", you are making exactly the same argument made by opponents to same sex marriages. With equal moral and logical justification, I could make a similar statement , "Since no one can legally marry a person of the same gender, there is no discrimination against people who believe in same sex marriages.".
The only difference is that, in your mind, and that of some other Americans, you are willing to allow people of the same sex to marry, but not a man and two women, or two women and two men, or...any other configuration of consenting adults.
In so doing, you've made the implied decision, not anywhere ensconced in the Constitution, that marriage can only be a union between two consenting, unrelated adults. Any other arrangements, you imply, are outside of the traditional bounds of marriage.
Well, 25 or even 10 years ago, the overwhelming majority of Americans would have said almost the exact same thing, but with one additional requirement. They would have said, "Marriage can only be a union between two consenting, unrelated adults of opposite genders".
Times change. The Constitution is a constant, at least in theory.
Same sex marriage, polygamy, polyandry and marriages between close relatives have all, always been outside the bounds of tradition western marriages. Maybe some of those laws need to be adjusted, but there is no more a constitutional guarantee that two men be allowed to marry, than there is that two men and a woman be allowed to do so.
ie the catholic church is doing its best to be irrelevalent in the bay area.
Um those of you bringing up jesus? My guess is you get mad whenever some person brings up mohamed. So stop already.
Bruce:
What do you mean by "recognize"?
If someone proved they were god (maybe walk on water or get the sun to chang color on demand) and announced homosexuality was unacceptable, only then would the myth become a reality to be heard.
I thought I would weigh back in. (not that any of you dope smokin, hate spewing, hippy liberals will understand what I am about to say or even read it, most of commentators here have moved on to something else do to their short attention spans) (and do please note the satire and sarcasm, as just mentioned)
@We the Corporations # 1
1) Way to show respect for your fellow man. Denigrate them, so you don't feel so bad about yourself.
2) Unless you disagree with a liberal, then you are a racist hate spewing anti-freedom conservative. And you really don't have a right to free speech.
3) Really? Women have the right to control their reproduction. Yet, even if I take all the precautions, if I engage in sexual activity and we get pregnant,( I am not going to say, "Get her pregnant", because that implies she had no control over being inseminated) do I have the right to demand an abortion? Nope, my options are to pay child support or go to jail. Can I stop the mother of my child, even if she is my wife from getting an abortion, because I would like to have a kid? nope. Remember it takes two to do it, (unless rape is involved), It should take two to undo it.
@deecee10000 #1.13
No s**t Dick Tracy, I was unaware of Greek history, thanks for the update. There has also always been murders and thieves in history, doesn't make it right. "There is...documented proof of cannibalism and rape in the animal kingdom, but that doesn’t make it right for humans."
And growing up on a farm I never saw one steer riding another one...DUH However, the human is the only species that is self aware, and therefore, aware of morality."Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity."
And that number is about one and half thousand, not thousands. Care to miss lead the audience a little further?
@ Sarah-3043284 #1.16
The point was and it seemed you all missed it was that the homosexual violates the Second Law of Nature. (Which is discussed in Philosophy and Ethics classes, which again I am guessing, non of you have taken) Which leads me to believe I will be talking over your heads.
But in essence, (AGAIN, FROM A STRICTLY SCIENTIFIC STAND POINT, {I make no personal moral or ethical judgement}) the Homosexual is a defective human, as the normal human has an innate desire to mate with the opposite sex to procreate regardless of marital status(and to all you idiots, yes I know there are exceptions, infertility etc, etc) And just as society denies certain members of society certain rights and privileges based on Mental or Physical Defects, society has historically denied the Homosexual certain benefits based on this defect.
We do not let the physically handicapped or crippled become Police Officers, Fire Fighters, or join the Military for obvious reasons. We do not allow the Mentally Ill / Impaired or convicted felons to own firearms, again for obvious reasons.
Now then, if we follow this logic, and I am sure that most of the people who oppose Homosexual Behavior are not even aware of this basic tenant of society. They instead are focused on Religious Mythology that are based on the basic tenants of Natural Law which were the basis for modern (and I say modern in the sense of it is only 5000 years old) society and civilization.
@DMorgan #1.58
And you can't prove that Gilligan's God does not exist. The only thing either of you can say is, "I believe, one way or the other". However, it is equally sanguine not to affect our legislation and preempt the civil rights of millions of Americans based upon your silly, unprovable cult mythology either. (i.e. That socialism works)
And before you post a rebuttal to this comment, night I suggest you read or study a little history, sociology, Philosophy, Ethics, and Anthropology and not the modern, politically corrected version of the texts. See if you can find one written before 1980.
Yeah I know, "These times, they are a changin" I heard the song too, and lived through it. They ain't changin' that much, (The more things change, the more they stay the same, is an absolute truth)
Boy that Vatican, always in touch. Talk about a tin ear. I used to call myself a recovering Catholic but now I'm completely healed.
Yeah, it's like they want to bang their heads against an Abrams tank.
(Really, all that does is make the tank crew hit the gas.)
Republicans: Jobs Jobs Jobs. Catholic hierarchy: Love Love Love. Reality check, please.
Since when is it news that Catholics don't believe in gay marriage?
azliberal--
Being liberal, you were never a Catholic in the 1st place, so there's 0 to talk about.
Liberalism is inimical to Catholicism. To call a liberal a Catholic is to name the wolf protector & best friend to a lamb.
Maria Julien--
Seems to be for homosexuals who think they're entitled to the sacrament of marriage...Thank you for a comment that makes sense.
I'm a liberal who was raised Catholic, Laureen. Thankfully, I was reprogrammed and don't practice Catholicism any longer.
BTW, there are many churches that welcome homosexuals and will perform gay marriages. And homosexuals are just as entitled to be married as every other citizen. Unfortunately for you christo-bigots, legal marriage in this secular nation is strictly a civil contract, not a "sacrament". What your cult, or any other, chooses to do regarding marriage is its own business, not the government's.
Erin - I am sorry that you had a need to be "reprogrammed".
I have found Protestant churches that focus on our relationship with Jesus to be very nurturing, healthy and positive spiritual entities. God is the same, yesterday, today and forever regardless of the failings of the church, God loves you and wants a relationship with you.
Keep your God to yourself, Rational Poster.
Is this supposed to be a revelation?
laureen, apparently you are incapable of telling the difference between the religious "sacrament of marriage", and the non-religious, legal fiction of a judicial marriage.
nobody is telling you that your church has to perform gay marriages, gays can get married by a court justice of the peace, no religion involved, and no so-called, ridiculously named "attack on marriage"
Don't get married by a preist. Today marriage is just a legal contract anyway & used to get family benifits. I don't see why there's such a fuss over gay marriage in the first place since most modern day marriages end in divorce soon or later. And society doesn't seem to look down on children born out of wed-lock anymore as when I was child.
You just stated the problem in a nutshell. Our morals and the very things that make humans more than the animals are being worn away by 'secularists', atheists, etc. If there are no rules, then anything goes, right? If you can say Gays can marry, why can't a redneck own a tank? Come on. There are certain things that should not change, and marriage is one. We have already weakened marriage and the family unit enough without adding Gay marriage to the mix.
DKJ-4
Using your logic, what's the point in continuing to live? 100% of the people alive are going to die eventually.
Curmudgeon - please explain how "we" have weakened marriage and the family unit and how same-sex marriage would weaken it further.
Joe .. don't bother asking him to explain this assertions. He's just parroting the Catholic Church and Fox News. The Catholic bishops tried that line about "stressing marriage" in their fight against same-sex marriage in New York last year. Of course, they never explained it because they couldn't. It just made for a good sound-bite.
If marriage shouldn't change, Curmudgeon, then I guess we need to go back to the times when Adam was banging first Lilith (who then spewed forth masses of children) and then Eve. Or better yet, let's go back to the Old Testament standard of multiple wives for each simpering male. First learn your bible, and then maybe you can blather on and on about morals espoused by the Judeo-Christian-Islamic faith.
the only basis of morality is " do no harm to others", and it doesn't come from some fictional sky-fairy
Right? And the Vatican can't understand why their membership is in decline. When the response to a civil issue starts with something something evil, you know you've worked yourself into a corner. A rather trite, lonely corner.
Hey we never considered this a popularity contest those people leaving ain't really Catholics anyway you can have them.
But forty or fifty percent of humans seem to absolutely need somebody to hate. The Roman Church opens its arms to them.
It's funny to watch the institution that produced men who were in the forefront of the resistance to the useless war in Vietnam devolve into a bitter, snaggletoothed troll living in a hut with billions in gold.
Tax the church. Tax the churches.
The Catholic Church does NOT hate gays. They welcome them. No, they do not support gay marriage but it has nothing to do with hating gays. It has to do with keeping the integrity of the teachings of Christ and the covenant of marriage intact and unviolated.
The hatred I see here towards Catholics or any religion for that matter is quite sad. Non-believers seem to be the ones filled with hate and anger.
Oh, Linda, what I see as really sad is that you seem to believe what you just said. You honestly think gays are welcomed in Catholic churches? Umm...sure! They can come sit in the pew and kneel like good Catholics, fill the collection plate, and then be denied sacraments like communion or marriage. That seems very welcoming to me. I'll come sit in a church and give them money, but know the whole time I'm a second class citizen and can't participate. Come to the party, but there will be no ice cream and cake for you because you dare to be who that same God the church worships made you to be.
The hatred I have seen tonight toward gays and those who just ask for equality and stand by them is quite sad as well, and I have seen plenty of believers filled with hate and anger as well. It's sad that the whole situation exists in the beginning since simple equality is the issue and not religious beliefs.
thanks lonereb. we'll take them.
Meanwhile, you can sit back and defend this pack of Child Rapists. You people seem to stick together. You're thick as thieves.
The Vatican is in decline? So is society, and economic health of most nations. There are many things in decline. Be careful what you hope for as a world without Catholics and Christians may not be the utopia some believe it could be.
What really irks me about the religious bigots is that they freely point out the failings / failures, while not recognizing the billions of dollars and billions of man hours these organizations have provided for hospitals around the world, and food for the poor.
Using the dimwit logic of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, I hope ragers like DMorgan also condemn all schools, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, childcare centers and everywhere else we have found child molesters.
And you better add Germany, Iceland, and Japan to your list, as their age of consent is 14 for the first two and 13 for Japan.
I dont care about all the soup kitchens and immunizations that you claim the Catholic Cult provides.
The price tag it comes with -- tens of thousands of raped and molested children -- is too high. Period.
A rager? Call me what you like. With an organization that BRAGS about its superior values, and BRAGS about being the one path to god, how many children need to be raped before YOU get pissed off about it? Does the proven number have to hit a half-million children?
jesus h nipple, what's wrong with you people?
If you want to see hatred, mention your BELIEF that Gay Marriage is wrong, and see the GLBT people come out and SHOW the hatred. They are quite good at that considering they are some 2% of the population, but are heard so often hating those that have any opposing beliefs.
DMorgan, There is absolutely nothing wrong with many of us so try to put aside your hatred and anger for just a couple minutes.
To provide context I was baptised a Catholic as an infant (no one is actually born Catholic) and I have attended the Catholic Church since. I'm in my mid-50's. I was never abused, sexually assaulted nor ever been the victim of any sexual advances by a Catholic priest. Those statements are true for the vast majority of children raised in the Catholic Church. Less than 1% of priests have been accused or implicated in the sexual abuse of children. In all likelihood, pedophiles are present in the Church in numbers greater than the general population; but that is probably true for all organizations that give pedophiles access to children (like college football programs).
There are a couple of reasons I have not left the Church:
1. I am able to separate the bad actions of people (pedophile priests and the officials that covered up those crimes) from the essence of the Church.
2. My personal experience of the Church. The parishes to which I have belonged have been filled, for the most part, with loving caring people trying hard to understand their place in the world and follow the fundamental beliefs of their chosed faith tradition.
The worldwide Roman Catholic Church has over 1 billion members. It is by far the largest Christian demonimation in the US, having more members than the next 5 Christian denominations combined. If you gather than many people into a "group" you will inescapably gather "bad" people into that group and some of those bad or misguided people will end up as leaders in that group. Understand that being Catholic does not mean getting a lobotomy and losing the ability to make choices for oneself. if fact the Church has always held that we are each, individually responsible to Christ for the conduct of our lives. I do not support, condone nor personally believe all that the Church teaches. You will not find many of us that do. Were you to read many of my past posts you would know that I am a strong supporter of individual rights and the ABSOLUTE separation of Church and State. Therefore, I strongly support the right of same-sex couples to marry. I think prohibiting women from becoming priests is mysogenistic in its origins, short sighted and designed to concentrate power in the all-male hierarchy. I also think that them ain't the rules in the club I joined, so I can either accept those rules or join another club. I firmly believe that the Church has done a horrible job of uncovering, reporting, punishing and stopping sexual abuse of children and that the Church should be held responsible for those actions by civil authorities.
The Catholic Church almost never brags about anything it does nor does it brag about is moral superiority and I was pissed off when I heard about the first abused child. You rage against an institution you don't understand and don't want to understand.
Those who are trying to intimidate people into accepting same sex marriage are the only ones i have ever seen that exhibit hatred. Sounds like they espouse "My way or the highway". i have a right to my beliefs without attack as those who think same sex marriage should be the "law of the land" should expect to exercise their beliefs without hatred. Maybe since the new archbishop does not believe in same sex marriage he should be vilified and hated and demonstrated against just as much as the short sighted people who think Chick-fil-A needs vto go away. You cannot have it both ways. I staunchly support Chick-fil-A and will patronize them as often as I can. i no longer shop at Target or JC Penney. That is my choice and nobody has the right to tell me I am intolerant. I do not approve of homosexual practices, but that does not say that i hate homosexuals. You are the ones who put words in my mouth that have not been said.
Jean you are absolutely correct that you have the right to have and to express your opinions. I also have the right to express my opinion if I believe you to be intolerant. I could give a rat's a$$ whether you approve of homosexual practice or not; and I would imagine that most homosexuals could care less about what you think too. What is important is that governmental bans on same-sex marriage violate the equal protection and dues process clauses of the US Constitution as well as the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Civil rights belong to people because we are human beings and whether or not any group of people HAVE civil rights is not a matter of opinion nor is it up for a vote. If you don't approve of homosexual acts then don't engage in any. If you don't approve of same-sex marriage then don't marry someone of the same sex. What you approve or don't approve of is not sufficient cause to deny the civil rights of others.
Isn't that nice for you. I've interviewed families whose lives have been destroyed because one (or more) of their children had been butt-raped by a priest for years and years. But -- how nice for YOU that YOU are able to separate all that.
And please -- spare us the "comparisons" to teachers unions and football programs. The Pedophile Catholic Cult spare no time or effort too remind everyone, whenever they can, that they have the Superior Family Values, that they are the True Path to God, that THEY hold themselves to a higher, more godly standard -- but every time something happens there, the first thing they (and their defenders, like you) do, is compare themselvs to the general public and say "whoa! See? they do it, too!!"
You can't have it both ways. If you want to enjoy CLAIMING that you have a Higher Standard and that you Live by this Higher Standard, then OWN IT, and stop the cowardly nonsense of abandoning it whenever people HOLD YOU TO that Higher Standard of yours. Have some goddam integrity for crying out loud!
Right there, you are 100% correct.
Yes DMorgan. I am able to put horrible events that didn't actually happen to me into some sort of perspective, see the bigger picture and not be consumed by hate and anger. Hopefully some day you'll be able to do that also. If I had been the victim of priest-abuse I would undoubtedly have a very different perspective. I would also have a different perspective on the death penalty, which I oppose, if my wife had been raped and murdered. That's why our society, guided by the rule of law, doesn't allow victims of crimes to decide the punishment for those crimes.
I'd respond to some of your statements about the Church but there is no point. There is nothing that anyone can say that will penetrate your wall of hate and allow you to engage in a rational discussion. I would imagine that every priest on earth could commit ritualistic suicide and your hate would still not be satisfied. Sad.
You're biased becasue you're a brainwashed member of the cult. And I understand that. It makes you feel better about yourself and the filthy, vile Pedophile Cult which you defend, to label me with "well of hate" and so on, well then -- good for you. Whatever it takes to keep your mind secure within the cult, go for it. I know a lot of people who cannot navigate through life without that crutch to lean on...and I can understand why you'd still want to defend it to the bitter end. Which is why nobody can ever have a rational discussion with a brainwashed member of their own cult, even when it has ruined the lives of so many people.
Cheers!
I think the only thing that might fit here is, wow. Just wow. Maybe some therapy would help you but I think it would take a really long time. I'm not brainwashed, the Catholic Church is not a cult, I've never needed a crutch, I've never defended the Church's role in covering up sexual abuse nor protecting the priests that did so. You know nothing about me and what you "understand" would fit on the head of a pin. Get some help dude before its too late and cover up, your biases are showing too.
joemike,
it sounds like dmorgan is stuck in a rut. he's so angry at what the priests have done that he is blind to reason. i think what a lot a of people are really upset about is not just what these men did, but the fact that the Church tried to hide it by just transferring them from one parish to another. they tried to handle it internally instead of turning them over to the authorities. and for alot of people, including me, that makes the Church culpable.
having said that, i understand how if you had only had good experiences with your church then why shouldn't you be able to enjoy your faith just like anyone else? i think we have become a people who believe that we have the right to dictate to others how they should live their lives while all the while saying we don't care.
but, if dmorgan really wants to discuss churches who think they are superior, steal peoples' money by lying to them boldface and are actively and opening trying to take over this country and turn it into a theocracy, it isn't the Catholic Church. look no further than your friendly neighborhood conservative prodestant (sp) church-the fundamentalists! God help us all and save us from them!
the truth (to me), is that God doesn't care who you marry. remember Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven. there is no man and woman. sexuality is strictly a human(or maybe i should say, sensient being) thing. Dmorgan and all of you who are so staunchly anti-gay-God cares about how you treat one another and when you fill the universe with negative feelings, you upset the harmony of that universe, and That is God. the consciousness we call God is no less that the living universe. what else could be "the alpha and the omega. the beginning and the end?" the universe works in perfect synchronicity, perfect harmony. when you spew hatred or negative thoughts, you work against that harmony.
live your life however you choose. just stop trying for force others to live by your standards. my life is not of you business. so, you know, if you don't agree with my life, my beliefs, my lifestyle, then just leave me alone.
Same-sex marriage is impossible because marriage can only take place between opposite sex couples.
Man was made for woman and woman made for man. Why people try to resist truth is beyond common sense.
First, man wasn't made, we evolved along with women.
Second, cause this is America and we have freedom, freedom to throw off the millions of years of evolution or the chains of oppression forced on people by religion. Don't like it, I hear there are some great theocratic countries in the middle east that love to force beliefs on people. But if you want to stay here, you have to accept FREEDOM for all people.
No Truth Here
There are six states where the definition of marriage includes same sex marriage. More are sure to follow. Surveys show that a majority of Americans favor marriage equality. In twenty years, this won't be an issue and, eventually, even the Vatican will adapt.
Haha, you said "adapt" and i said "evolved", maybe these fundies will learn a thing or two about evolution.
Arnold there are thirty where it doesn't your six don't outweigh the thirty that don't believe as you do and have codified that belief. The Vatican will not change a fundamental belief so don't hold your breath. I for one am happy they are drawing the line in the sand.
And there will be 50 in a few years when SCOTUS rules.
Psst, "We the corporations?", Catholicism actually accepts evolution.
Lonesome wrote:
"Same-sex marriage is impossible because marriage can only take place between opposite sex couples.
Man was made for woman and woman made for man. Why people try to resist truth is beyond common sense."
To resolve your quest for common sense and put your mind at ease: the reason is that what you wrote is not the truth. It really is that simple.
LoneReb,
"Because I said so" ceases to work with people after the age, of oh let's say, eight.
Emdfa Are you so sure? You were so sure the Obamacare was set and a judge in Denver put a restraining order on HHS there today.
Actually lonereb - Jesus had picked Mary Magdalen to lead his Church on earth - She was brighter and smarter than these so called fishermen and even Jesus said "she knew his heart"
John said "Lord why do you love her so much?" She was the first to meet Jesus on the path after he left the tomb
But the boys wouldn't have any of that especially Peter and the woman hater Paul
So the Catholic Church made her out to be a whore - and since then we have had the Church considering women as second class citizens
Just think what a better world this would have been if wives and mothers were in charge
By the way lonereb - I know you won't believe me - but pick up the book MARY MAGDALEN by Susan Haskins - Myth and Metaphor
Plus all you people if Mary Magdalen was such a whore why are churches throughout France and Italy dedicated to St Mary Magdalen?
I actually have been to a few
Pssst, nick, don't confuse the people that hate the Church, LOL. Science and religion cannot be at odds if it is the truth. Many Catholics along with recent Popes believe that some sort of evolution is obviously true.
Isn't it a shame that they never drew that line in the sand (or perhaps there just wasn't any sand in the room) when it comes to RAPING and MOLESTING and ABUSING CHILDREN.
Ah, the Pedophile Catholic Cult. And you remain one of its biggest defenders... No surprises here!
Don't count on it. It took them over 300 years to admit that Galileo was right.
Right on that, Barry!
The church has violated its own tenets.
This has nothing to do with non-religious law or what the general public chooses to do... but does speak to the collapse of the Catholic Church as prophesied.
Arx Ferrum,
After you and I are long dead, if the earth is still here, so will be the Catholic Church.
People committ sins institutions do not. Get the two straight in your head. Just because we are trying to live by the rules of the Church does not mean every man or woman will succeed all the time. But of course you are perfect and have never made a mistake in your life. I forgot liberals are perfect and godlike in everyway.
fredystairs - Like biscotti, fruitcake and roaches.
YOU people in that filthy goddam cult of yours are the ones who claim you have the True Religion, the One True Path to God. And yet, you have the fact that tens of thousands of children (that we know of) have been raped and abused and molested by your Cult Leaders, and the conspiracy that followed to protect the offenders, a conspiracy that goes right to the top...? Don't whine at others with your "oh, you never made a mistake, you're perfect" crapola. If YOU want to lay those kinds of claims at other peoples' feet -- that YOU have the better values, that YOU are the one true way to God, that YOU are the Family Values people --- then you should expect to be held to that standard that YOU all keep bragging about!! If YOU claim to live by a Higher Standard, then for shat's sake, LIVE BY IT!! Stop comparing yourself to every one else (who, by your owns claims, has lesser values than your own) every time you people rape a child, every time you screw up, every time you fall short... Stop being cowards. Live Your Values Every Day, or GTFO!
Stop trying to have it both ways -- that's a coward's retreat!
No, really?!? I'm shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED... Imagine my surprise?!?
I'll try to sit down and pull it together... Wow... A guy from the Vatican who is more interested in playing dress-up and pushing ideas and bigotry that went out with the invention of the wheel?!?! Say it ain't so?!??
Bigot COLOMTN, you are the VERY definition of the word, along with the others who call those that DON'T agree with them BIGOTS:
bigot big·ot NOUN
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views
It's not your views we don't accept. It's your attempt to invade our secular legislature, with arguments that are illogical at best, in order to ACT on those views.
Think whatever you want about gay people or gay marriage, they cease to be just thoughts when you try to pass or uphold unconstitutional laws.
aquarium, you logic is perfect from the point of view of the bigoted. What we have now that if you call a racist a racist, or a racist political party a racist political party, you are by definition playing the race card and therefore a racist yourself. And if you call a homophobe a denier of human rights and a bigot and you refuse to accept their bigotry, you become a bigot yourself. That is what you are saying.
The only problem with this logic is that it is based on lies and proceeds through lies to a conclusion of lies.
Someone who denies other people their basic rights, rights guaranteed by our constitution, should not expect their "view" to be accepted by anyone who can think dispassionately about the question. You don't become a bigot by refusing to accept "the view" that denies other people their rights. What you become is a simple defender of the values that all Americans endless claim they believe in, but many, in fact, do not believe in. A bigot is someone who asserts "this group, or that group, is less than me and my group and therefore does not deserve the rights and privileges that we have and we deserve." Anyone who accepts "the view" of such people is fundamentally unamerican.
Most people forget or refuse to research that George Washington dedicated this country to God and the whole legislature, executive and judical system on the Bible. Washington D.C. where prayer began the day.
George Washington made that dedication in N.Y. close to ground zero. Interesting
Apparently you forgot that George Washington wasn't a supreme leader. He was one of many founding fathers who had a hand in shaping our nation.
Sorry, it's indisputable that, while the founding father's may have had some sort of religion in their personal lives, our NATION is secular.
You aren't going to fill another whole thread with your definition of bigot, are you, aquarius? I admit I like aquarium better, but I'll try to be polite.
Glenn. Most people refuse to acknowledge that our Founding Fathers wrote FOUR PRIMARY DOCUMENTS when they Founded the United States: The US Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights.
The Founding Fathers put all of their most cherished values and hopes, their most trasured beliefs and intents into those Founding Documents.
Not one of those documents -- NOT ONE OF THEM -- contains any of these words: christ, bible, jesus, christianity.
They barely make mention of any god, and what reference they do make (like in the language of the Delclaration of Independence -- "and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them…” ) the language they use is very Deist in nature.
I know that's not what you like to hear...but, it's the truth.
Cheers!
The founding fathers were atheists if the actual truth be known. No one dared to admit being atheist in those times so atheists took a "deist" stand.
DMorgan, thank you. This is very well and accurately stated.
Of course many will continue to believe what they want to believe, or rather more accurately, what they have been told to believe.
No News here the catholic church is nothing more than a corupt corporation of criminals with thousands of years of blood on there hands remember in 2000 the pope raped even there own nuns repeatedly in Africa who continue to rape the minds and other body parts with there poison and greed and power over easily swayed bots who refuse to think on there own two feet
"New SF archbishop a strong opponent of same-sex marriage" while he's bending his altar boys over... The Catholic Church is the very EPITOME of hypocrisy.
No a LIBERAL is the very definition of HYPOCRITE. You say everyone is free to say what they want, have different views on things, be OPEN minded. Then when Chick Fil A Says they don;t support homosexual marriage, you proceed to try to destroy their business.
Amazon contributes to homosexual marriage issue in Wash state, and HE'S A HERO!! HYPOCRITES!!
BIGOTS, yes BIGOTS. The definition is:
You are the VERY definition of the word, along with the others who call those that DON'T agree with them BIGOTS:
bigot big·ot NOUN
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views
Aquarius, are you saying that people don't have the right to not eat somewhere?
Rejecting bigots is not bigotry, sorry Quarry.
aquarus - If you have a problem with Amazon - don't buy anything from them. Get your angry, little friends together and get a movement started to not buy anything from them. Pull up your big girl panties and take a stand if you're so angry. I don't plan on having a Chick Fil A anytime soon. Sue me. I choose not to support angry, bigoted, right-wing people or corporations. Oh - by the way, where did you get your definitions from?
@ KimH - I wondered the same -
As far as I can tell, its not a 'dictionary definition' (as in written by a lexicologist) but rather a 'web-def' that seems to originate on a Wikipedia disambiguation page.
ODDLY - if you Google it, you will find a pattern - (hold your breath) many times cited in anti-same sex arguments.
Go figure - I don't have an explanation for it that makes a lot of sense, other than it spread that way because 'some one saw it, and those of like mind adopted it to bolster their opinion'.
I'm just waiting to see all of the people who will stop buying gasoline because the companies are run by OPEC & OPEC countries suppress (i.e. - kill) homosexuals & women. I'll never have to wait in line to fill up again.
After all, you can't give up the cause just because you're inconvenienced. That would make you a hypocrite.
That's not the whole picture, punkin. WHAT YOU and your FOUL PEDOPHILE CULT do further is to try and force their bigoted, religious interpretations into our secular laws. THAT is bigotry.
I don't give a goddam what you people believe, worship -- I don't care if you hate gay people all day long. BUT, when you try to force it all through legislation, THAT is bigotry, it hurts other people, and it's filthy.
And, with regard to your bigoted company -- in many states and cities, there is anti-discrimination legislation to protect EVERYONE. When a business comes in with DISCRIMINATORY LANGUAGE, they can expect to be excluded from those areas. It doesn't destroy their business (as you tried to dishonestly suggest) it just disallows them from going into area where their kind of discrimination is illegal. That's their own fault for being hateful goddam bigots!
Big E,
I'm just waiting to see all of the people who will stop buying gasoline because the companies are run by OPEC. Because many (most) OPEC countries are run and populated by those horrible Muslims that everybody on the right seems to despise.
After all, you can't give up the cause just because you're inconvenienced. That would make you a hypocrite.
I didn't know Venezuela and Ecuador were muslim countries.......
That's why I said "many (most)".
Reading comprehension... look into it.
Total hypocrisy. Sure, makes sense - instead of facing the reality of gayness (which isn't going away, sorry to tell all you bible thumpers), the church wants to condemn it while its own repressed clergy are molesting BOYS seemingly constantly!
Luckily, people are finally waking up to this nonsense and walking AWAY from religion.
Evil and stupid make a dangerous combination.
@Mike VL
Is that a knockwurst in your mouth or are you just happy to see me?
It will eventually go away MIKEVL. Homosexuals can'r reproduce and are subject to multiple diseases which will cause their demise.
No a LIBERAL is the very definition of HYPOCRITE. You say everyone is free to say what they want, have different views on things, be OPEN minded. Then when Chick Fil A Says they don;t support homosexual marriage, you proceed to try to destroy their business.
Amazon contributes to homosexual marriage issue in Wash state, and HE'S A HERO!! HYPOCRITES!!
BIGOTS, yes BIGOTS. The definition is:
You are the VERY definition of the word, along with the others who call those that DON'T agree with them BIGOTS:
bigot big·ot NOUN
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views
Nice post auarius, just goes to show just how out of touch most "conservatives" are. If the "Very definition" of HYPOCRITE is a liberal, that would put conservatives and liberals under the same roof. Please explain why the right is SO against something like abortion, but yet oppose all safety nets/programs to help bring that child up to be a productive member of society? Just like the Catholic's, hate HOMOSEXUALS but LOVE SEXUAL CHILD MOLESTERS and protect them instead of the innocent child. Just goes to prove that your side is a bunch of hypocritical scum bags too.
Lol! Sorry, I can't take you seriously. 1) Homosexuals do reproduce, 2) homosexuality is older than our species and hasn't been breed out yet, 3) mortality rates of today's homosexuals is higher than the general population, but not much so.
If you want to be taken seriously, stop spouting off ridiculous comments.
Please tell me that all you atheists aren't going to the movies.
What does your vague reference to the Aurora shooting have to do with an organization that protected and enabled child rapists for decades, if not the better part of a millennia, criticizing the sexual and life choices of loving adults as abnormal?
Catholic pedophiles, and those who enabled them-which is a pretty big swath of your Catholic upper leadership-belong in the hell you believe in.
A Bible verse applies here- you'll like it! "Cast the beam out of your eye before you talk to your brother about the speck in his eye."
I didn't know Penn State was a Catholic University.
Does anybody know of any CHURCH that practices what it preaches. Most of these religous nuts will be the first in line at the gates of hell. Jesus is only their whore to make money and control the masses, All organized religion is nothing more than a pimp! Would love to see Jesus come back, cause I'm thinking he would not have nice things to say or do to those within these organizations!
It didn't need to be. Jerry Sandusky is a right-wing christian republican, and personal friend of Rick Santorum. Is anyone surprised? Answer: Nope!
Why? Do you plan on shooting any who do?
I'd like to think that there was some hope that, like Hercules' Augean Stables, someone would come along and "drag" the institutional Catholic Church back into conformity with the Gospel. That possibility becomes more remote with the dumbing down of those put in leadership positions. I am actually Catholic, and a convert, but am certainly aware of the "Emporer has no clothes" aspects of this convoluted church. While I accept the doctrine and my local community, the institutional church leaves me cold. Since I will be living in this guy's new diocese, and he seems like possibly one of the worst choices to head a diocese which has long since made peace, on the local level, with our LGBT brothers and sisters, I guess we take a wait and see attitude. I know that all of you outside the church probably don't get it, and that's okay, because you don't have to, but I still hope for the day when there will be GREAT BIG APOLOGIES (even bigger than the ones John Paul II already delivered...go ahead, check it out) for a lot of dumb sh** that has nothing to do with the real church or God, for that matter. Some days are just like this one.
We did not change the gospel we still have all 73 books in our bible. You dropped 7 of them not us. And we still say the Lords prayer exactly like it is in Matthew. You added stuff about kingdoms and power and glory not us.Sue maybe it is you that needs to come back into conformity.
lonereb. where in the BuyBull does it talk about raping children and protecting the rapists at all costs, and moving them around to new parishes where they can continue to rape new children in fresh, new hunting grounds?
The Catholic solution to gay is to become a priest or deny who you are your entire life. Whether or not you support same sex marriage, you should realize the Catholic solution is far more dysfunctional and unnatural than same sex marriage could ever be.
If you really want to know what we believe about gays then read the catechism it is free online at the USCCB website. But if you are going to argue with me you will have to debate the actual beliefs and not what you think we believe. The same goes for christians and atheists. Your silly comments have no effect on someone who has studied their faith. I'm not one of those cafeteria Catholics.
oh no, your defend the Pedophile Catholic Cult right to the end. forget the cafeteria!
I realize there are a lot of loving people of faith who have things to say that make their arguments sound well intentioned, but I've already had hours of those conversations, lonereb.
Just because the nicest people in the world are espousing these beliefs doesn't mean their any less wrong or creepy when they try to use US law to affirm what their faith says is "natural" or "good".
If you're either a practicing Catholic or protestant I have a pretty damn good grasp on what you believe. Church teachings were drilled into me for decades, several hours each day. I'm not making any big assumptions here. Hell, I'm not kidding myself and pretending to change your mind. You'll sleep well tonight because you believe you have a monopoly on the truth. "Faith" is a powerful thing in that respect.
Catholic clergy ought not moralize or opine on the sexual behavior of others. Pot calling the kettle black.....people who live in glass houses throwing rocks.....just saying.
That is quite an inane statement. A large majority of priests DO practice what they preach. The evil committed towards our children was not the norm by any means and an honest person would realize that fact. There ARE sinners within any religious organization, sadly.
Sorry, Linda, but your reply is both inane and cowardly. I'll say again what I said above.
YOU people in that filthy goddam cult of yours are the ones who claim you have the True Religion, the One True Path to God. And yet, you have the fact that tens of thousands of children (that we know of) have been raped and abused and molested by your Cult Leaders, and the conspiracy that followed to protect the offenders, a conspiracy that goes right to the top is a proven FACT. Don't whine at others with your "oh, you never made a mistake, you're perfect" crapola. If YOU want to lay those kinds of claims at other peoples' feet -- that YOU have the better values, that YOU are the one true way to God, that YOU are the Family Values people --- then you should expect to be held to that standard that YOU all keep bragging about!! If YOU claim to live by a Higher Standard, then for shat's sake, LIVE BY IT!! Stop comparing yourselves to every one else (who, by your owns claims, have lesser values than your own) every time your people rape a child, every time you screw up, every time you fall short... Stop being cowards. Live Your Values Every Day, or GTFO!
DMorgan, I'm on your side with this one, believe me, I really am, but is it necessary to repeat "filthy goddam cult" and other such disrespectful language in every post? It's getting difficult to even consider your point of view when you come off as more intolerant than that Aquarius a-hole who keeps posting his crap BS about bigots. I understand and support your anger, but your unbridled and undisciplined vitriol isn't helping, man.
Linda M: Whether it was one or one thousand, pedophilia is/was an unspoken, but accepted practice in the Catholic Church.
Those who choose to stay and support the church, are just as guilty by association.
It doesn't matter what the churches "approve of" or "endorse" - they are deservedly fading away, an old set of superstitions and myths we no longer need...
See 10.1
How many times in 2000 years has that been said? Then you do something like what has been happening in this country. Catholics look at their faith the weak leave the strong decide to stand and the Church in the end becomes stronger/ You have done us a favor. Maybe you are part of God's plan to strengthen His Church. It is His after all not Pope Benedict's. We are just sinners on a journey towards Him.
Amen, lonereb. The Church is actually growing in many parts of the world with over 1.2 BILLION members.
a FRACTION of the times that we've heard, for 2000 years, that:
-- the jesus-myth ic coming SOON
-- the world is going to end in this lifetime
-- anyone who doesn't believe in the Catholic Cult is going to Hell
-- no, seriously, christianity HASN'T killed more people in the name of god than anyone else.
-- the pope will be sainted because of all the miracles he's performed
and on and on and on...
why are people suprised at this ? in the bible this is a sin.every church should be against same sex marriage.
will that stop it no . the world is set on fire to get to hell as fast as possible and they are doing everything in there power to get there as fasr as they can.
Happy to see the Catholic Church refuse to give in those who are determined to have immoral behavior recognized as "normal". As long as there are still churches that uphold and proclaim God's truth, there is still hope that SF will turn from it's wickedness.
Rev Larry Robinson
We welcome you in the fight my brother. Stand by your beliefs as I will stand by mine we have more in common than you think. May He guide us, Strengthen us, May His will be done.
Boy, this guy sure got assigned to the wrong city - San Francisco - city of gays! Bet he won't last there long- he'll say the wrong thing and all the PC gurus will jump all over him. But good luck. At least he has the man upstairs on his side.
Well since his boss lives in Rome I don't think he cares what the political gurus say. That is something you have to understand we never vote on moral issues. Our bishops can advise but not change assingments.I think since his last assignment was Oakland he knew what he was getting into. Our bishops do not get together once a year to make drastic changes in tenents of the faith or liturgy. The last change was VaticanII in the 60's and they are still trying to get the english translation into perfect alignment with the latin. If the Catholic Church moves it moves like a glacier. The ruling on divorce is the same as during the reign of Henery VIII. BTW all of the English church left then and they didn't change the ruling.
lonereb - Do you belong to Opus Dei same as Santorum?
But it is ok to molest little boys, FU and your NAZI pope.
I dare you to go to pavethewayfoundation.org and see if after you read what is online there you are as sure about that Nazi Pope crack. Pinchas Lapide Israeli Ambassador estimated Pius XII was instrumental in saving 700-860,000 Jews. I think those estimates are a bit high. There were 477 Jews hidden in the Vatican and 4,238 in monestatries and convents in Rome. Check records of the Trujillo government they were pressured out of 12,000 visas The US by way of the Dominican Republic. There were falsified baptismal certificates issued to allow emigration as Catholics to Brazil. One Hungarian church went from 5 converts a year to 300 in a month. More ink than holy water flowing there. And just for an added thought there were 40 babies born at Castel Gondolfo during the occupation.
AND THEN, when the Nazis surrendered WWII -- guess what.
The Pedophile Catholic Cult created, maintained and managed the European ratlines, enabling scores of Nazi War Criminals to escape to countries, and to never be found again.
Yeah, you guys were not in cahoots with the Nazis??? RIGHT! And, before you make yourself look REALLY stupid by trying to debunk what I said, your filthy Pope has already apologized for what I just mentioned. Another empty apology, happening decades after the crime occurred, and with NO remuneration to the victims.
Oh yeah, that sounds like a completely non-biased source! LMFAO!! No propaganda there!!
Wait a minute...
If you`re gay and want to get married you wouldn`t do it in a Catholic Church anyhow, right?
I mean if the Catholic Church is no longer relevant, hateful, out of touch, etc. what would a gay couple want to do with them? And if the gay community could really do without the Catholic Church what`s all the hubbub about?
Catholic Church = no gay marriage here.
Gay community = we`ll get married somewhere else, thanks anyway.
So again, what`s all the nasty comments for? Gay people go one way, Catholic church goes another??
I was thinking wait a minute myself. 432,000 Catholics in San Francisco? I think someone is cooking the books. With the scandals as of late are you sure that people admitting to be Catholic along the west coast aren't confined to the bay area, but instead this figure represents a population from Vancouver, BC well into the Gulf of California. If the Catholic Church supplied this information, you really don't think it is suspect? Then again, there could be 200,000 Catholics in Provo, Utah as well.
San Francisco has a large Itallian population. Got it.
Even at a large Italian population, and counting everyone as Catholic below the age of ten, disenfranchised one time church goers, and any drunks you want to sign up at the missions for a place to sleep overnight, 432,000 is an awful lot of census data normal stats wouldn't consider valid numbers. I'd give them maybe 50,000 practicing adult Catholics at best, the majority of them being above the age of 50.
This is a Catholic Arch Bishop. This would only be news if he supported, or even tolerated, same sex marriage.
I think it's news whenever ANY organization (such at the Pedophile Catholic Cult) has such a horrible history of raping, molesting and abusing children --- then it comes out trying to suggest what Sexual Morality is all about, and trying to hold itself up as the Moral Compass for, well, anything and anyone.
The Catholic Church doesn't only oppose gay marriage. They oppose most human sexual expression of any kind. They hold that even teenagers can go to Hell for anything sexual outside of a 'valid' Catholic marriage. Sexual fantasy, gay sex, straight but unmarried sex, masturbation---all punishable by eternal torture in Hell, according to the kind folks at the Vatican. Expecting compassionate support for gays from the RC church is a lost cause.
Patrick,
Is your comment in response to mine?
If not apologies, if so are you saying the gay community generally opposes the Catholic Church over "human sexual expression of any kind"?
If so how magnanimous!
Brian,
No, I hadn't seen your comment yet. I was raised as a Catholic and I remember only too well the constant threats of Hell that even young teens get from the Church over their totally normal adolescent behavior (fantasy, self-exploration, etc.) The official disapproval is just as strong for any sexual expression of gay or lesbian love. There are gay and lesbian people who (for reasons that I personally don't understand at all) consider themselves Catholic and want recognition and compassion from their church. I'm afraid however that they're never going to get that understanding from the Catholic Church. Better to worship somewhere else.
yeah like the altar of Baal?
Nothing sacred about a man marrying a man or woman marrying a women.According to scripture thats and abomination.In fact GOD has turned them over to a reprobate mind.Our Goverment is so stupid trying to promote that mess.Abomination and reprobation is the down fall of any nation.America is not excluded in that.Ameria is the Modern Ninevah,Jonah preached to.Americas people need to repent of this anti Christ movement called same sex marriage.Living in abominations is gross sins,God hates the workers of iniquity everyday.Same sex marriage is nothing but iniquity.People that do these things will in the end have their just reward of unrighteousness.It's a shame They are so blinded.Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.Serpents always are testing the air,the Lords people better always be testing the spirits wether they be of God Or not.
Another judgmental christian speaks as if he were Jesus.............judge not , lest yee be judged sayeth The Lord !
And according to may farie tale bigots are an abomination. In fact my imaginary diety turned them over to a reprobate mind.Our Government is so stupid trying to promote that mess.Abomination and reprobation is the down fall of any nation.
Fortunately, Grand Slam, it doesn't need to be sacred. Just legal.
Glad to hear the church is standing up to sexual deviants.
Agreed Common. We have to stand up to these hypocrites. They're OK with those who have speech that CODONES homosexuality, BUT NOT those who AREN'T willing to ENDORSE deviancy.
No a LIBERAL is the very definition of HYPOCRITE. You say everyone is free to say what they want, have different views on things, be OPEN minded. Then when Chick Fil A Says they don;t support homosexual marriage, you proceed to try to destroy their business.
Amazon contributes to homosexual marriage issue in Wash state, and HE'S A HERO!! HYPOCRITES!!
bigot big·ot NOUN
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views
lol they denounce this but turns out they approve being pedophiles. go figure.. 432,000 Catholics.. a bunch of hypocritical moron's
Oh and by the way. . . a HUGE CONGRATS to France, Scotland and New Zealand, the latest countries to say YES to marriage equality this year ! We luv 'ya ! ! ! Wishing you all the best ! ! !
I don't believe u deecee10000
BIGOTS, yes BIGOTS. The definition is:
You are the VERY definition of the word, along with the others who call those that DON'T agree with them BIGOTS:
bigot big·ot NOUN
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views
DEECEE1000, is LYING New Zealand DID NOT PASS THAT BILL about same sex marriage, nor has France. See how the left LIES, just OUTRIGHT LIES to try to further their AGENDA???
Prove me wrong DEECEEEE1000...I'm waiting. I invite everyone to google the terms France, new zealand, and Scotland same sex marriage and see that He/SHE is a LIAR
Typical gay propaganda...............
Status of gay marriage in mentioned countries:
France: http: //tinyurl.com/c96fjlv (remove the space after "http:")
New Zealand: The 2005 Civil Union Act allows same-sex and opposite sex couples to have a 'civil union' which under the law is identical to a marriage, with the exception that same-sex couples cannot jointly apply to adopt.
Scotland: http: //tinyurl.com/c2pswp5 (remove the space after "http:")
To save you some time going to the news links, here are the headlines:
France: "Gay Marriage Will Soon Become Legal in France, Big Win for LGBT Rights in Europe" Dated June, 2012
Scotland: "Gay marriage to be introduced in Scotland" BBC, July 25, 2012
There's your proof, aquarius_1958. Sorry you had to wait. It may not be law yet, in two of those countries, but it's on the way.
And TWO of the THREE have said "YES", so deecee10000 is correct on those two countries. New Zealand is moving in that direction, which you can read about in this New Zealand news article...
Sorry, aquarius_1958, you're wrong too.
How many more links would you like to see?