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Subscribe to RSSResearchers have discovered a World War II-era German submarine nearly 70 years after it sank under a withering U.S. attack in waters off Nantucket. NBC's Brian Williams reports.
BOSTON -- Divers have discovered a World War II-era German submarine nearly 70 years after it sank under withering U.S. attack in waters off Nantucket.
The U-550 was found Monday by a privately funded group organized by New Jersey lawyer Joe Mazraani.
"They’ve looked for it for over 20 years,” Mazraani, a shipwreck diver, told The Boston Globe. “It’s another World War II mystery solved.”
In the second trip in two years to the site by the team, the seven-man crew using side-scan sonar located the wreck listing to its side in deep water about 70 miles south of Nantucket.
Sonar operator Garry Kozak said he spotted the 252-foot submarine during the second of an exhausting two days of searching. Kozak said the team asked him if they'd found it, then erupted in joy without a word from him.
"They could see it with the grin (on my face) and the look in my eyes," Kozak said.
The crew had searched 100 square miles of ocean, the Globe reported. Traveling at five knots, the ship scanned the vast expanse for signs of the sunken vessel, a tedious process crew members likened to “mowing the lawn.”
Mazraani dove down to confirm the discovery with pictures, the Globe said.
On April 16, 1944, the U-550 torpedoed the gasoline tanker SS Pan Pennsylvania, which had lagged behind its protective convoy as it set out with 140,000 barrels of gasoline for Great Britain, according to the U.S. Coast Guard website and research by Mazraani.
AP
This sonar image provided by GK Consulting & AWS Expeditions/Joe Mazraani, shows a World War II-era German submarine U-550, found by a team of explorers Monday on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean 70 miles south of Nantucket Island, Mass.
The U-boat slipped under the doomed tanker to hide. But one of the tanker's three escorts, the USS Joyce, saw it on sonar and severely damaged it by dropping depth charges.
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The Germans, forced to surface, manned their deck guns while another escort vessel, the USS Gandy, returned fire and rammed the U-boat. The third escort, the USS Peterson, then hit the U-boat with two more depth charges. The crew abandoned the submarine, but not before setting off explosions to scuttle it. The submarine hadn't been seen again until Monday.
The U-550 is one of several World War II-era German U-boats that have been discovered off the U.S. coast, but it's the only one that sank in that area, Mazraani said. He said it's been tough to find largely because military positioning of the battle was imprecise, and searchers had only a general idea where the submarine was when it sank. Kozak noted that the site is far offshore and has only limited windows of good weather.
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The other team members were Steve Gatto, Tom Packer, Brad Sheard, Eric Takakjian and Anthony Tedsechi
Mazraani is cagey about the vessel's precise location, saying only that it's in deep water. Mazraani's said his best estimate was that the team spent thousands of dollars of its own money on the expedition. He joked that no one on the team, whose members range in age from the mid-20s to mid-50s, stands to make money from the find unless someone writes a book.
Mazraani said the next step is to contact any sailors or their families from the escort vessels, the tanker and the German U-boat to share the news and show the pictures. Another trip to the site is coming, he said, adding the investigation has just started.
"The history behind it all is really what drives us," Mazraani said.
This article includes reporting by The Associated Press.
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Leave a Comment:
It's laying next to Amelia Earhart's plane.
“It’s another World War II mystery solved.”
It's not a mystery when they knew everybody's shoe size.
Is this the submarine that give the US a reason to join WWII?
I am a little rusty on the history, but remember there is a boat that was going to Britain with the rumor of carrying weapons to help against the Germans.
Is this the one where it the starts for everything?
No. That was the Lusitania and it was a passenger liner that helped the US get involved in WW I when it was sunk by a U-boat; not WW II.
REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!! Seems that Nguyun has no memory of that event.
But that is understandable I suppose. He wasn't born in SE Asia it appears.
Otherwise he would remember the Japanese occupation.
@ slodon
It seems it didn't take you long before your racist remark show up.
Pearl Harbor is with the japanese, which gives us a legitimate reason to retaliate.
However, the problem is the US kind of stayed out of the war for a while and need a reason to join in if I remember it right.
In case you failed to understand with your racism remark going on. I took 4 years of high school just like you, 2 years for A.S degree and 4 years for B.S in Electrical Engineering.
History has never been my strong point, but I tried to learn more over the year.
However, it seems that even years wouldn't change your attitude and you didn't even give it a try from the way you talk.
Edit: It's also a common courtesy to spell someone last name right, which you failed to even do that. Is that how you were brought up?
For you idiots ... the U.S. was in war in the Pacific ... through a trick by the British ... Hitler declared war on the U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The British would never have survived had they not pulled the U.S. into their war.
Also ... kind of a weak story since they don't really say what happen to the Germans ....
There was a US supply ship for Britain sunk closer to there that brought about US involvement. The rumor was Churchill allowed it for that benefit. Slodon was being what the down home Americans call a 'dick'.
It's LAYING between my dog & your sister ...
how's THAT for funny ??
The U.S. went to war in the Pacific in retaliation for Pearl Harbor, and in response to Japan's declaration of war.
Yup, that was some trick by the British, getting the Japanese to bomb our naval base. Who'd have thunk it. It's a good thing we have your wisdom to guide us.
...and then Hitler declared war on the U.S.
The U Boat was sunk of the Massachusetts coast. What do you think happened the surviving German sailors, swam back to Germany?
Iam sure they can use you in asia.making rice cookers.
Here is a brief history of U-550 from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-550
Stats of U-550 from a website devoted to German U Boats:
http://uboat.net/boats/u550.htm
Unfortunately, there isn't a website that possesses the techniques necessary to give slodon the 20 extra IQ points he is apparently missing that would bring him up to a nearly normal 80-90 points. He is forever doomed to imbecility.
The brits many times knew where the German subs were because they were at sea flying flags of neutral countries to avoid being sunk, in clear violation of maritime law, after knowing this and reporting U boat positions, the brits steered many American ships to their doom in order to have the US join the war, a tactic also used in WW1. As far as WW1, it is known that Winston Churchill, Lord of the Admiralty during WW1, had American ships, such as the Lusitania, guided towards the firing line of U boats to hurry the US involvement in the war, it wasn't a coincidence that the same U boat had sunk 3 more ships before the Lusitania in that same area, why would he not warn them or simply guide them away, another thing, the Lusitania sank fast because it was carrying armament for the brits (and it was a British ship by the way), a clear violation of neutrality on part of the US, since the cargo was undeclared. Last but not least, the Lusitania was sunk in 1915, the US didn't enter the war till 1917, so that was not the cause.
They didn't call England "Perfidious Albion" for nothing. Yep, them Brits was some lyin' sumbitches. The Lusitania was searched some years ago to settle the question of whether she was carrying arms (a violation of Neutrality Acts, making her a legit target), but I can't recall what the verdict was. Churchill was a bloodthirsty pig (see, Gallipoli), liar, and general Colonel Blimp. During the Battle of Britain, the Luftwaffe had figured correctly that the RAF didn't have enough fighters to defend England unless they could continue using their radar to co-ordinate flights. So, being good Germans, they began to systematically destroy every radar site in the UK. Churchill knew he had only one chance, and, knowing how squirrelly Hitler could be, he took it. He ordered the RAF bombers to fly over Berlin, at night, and drop bombs at random over residential areas. Now, this is known as your basic mega-war crime, but at the time nobody bombing at night could do much better than that anyhow (which is why nobody did). Anyhow, just to show that the devil really does run things, Hitler went bazonko, ordered the Luftwaffe to forget the radar stations and begin bombing Brit cities. Now, not only did German civilians get killed, but many thousands of Brits ended up dying in the Blitz as well. And they all owed it to Winnie. But, hey, the RAF did end up staying in the fight to build the Iron Curtain for Uncle Joe.
Hi, I'm just going to say one thing... did anyone read the article? Nothing was said about Japan or the Pacific war theatre.... It WAS ABOUT U-550 being sunk off the coast of ?????????? In deep water, the sub was hit where????? RE- READ THE NEWS STORY.............
Interesting account, Jacobite. I wonder if you've ever heard the phrase, "all is fair in love and war.".
If Churchill's decision to bomb Berlin resulted in staving off defeat, then he did the right thing.
War is not a game. It is a brutal struggle, and not all of the people who get hurt are wearing uniforms.
Amadeo: while you're castigating the British for flying neutral countries' flags, don't forget that the Germans were doing the self-same thing. Also, I have doubts about how good radio was during WWI, not to mention navigation.
Jacobite: How much do you know about the black side of WWII? I refer specifically to ULTRA, and Enigma. My guess is that there's a whole lot you probably do not know about what went on behind closed doors. But, judging from the tone of your posting, I don't think you care. You know only what some America- and British-hating teacher told you. Actually, and again this is from the tone of your posting, I think you need to adjust your tinfoil hat; loosen it some.
Cool find off the coast. Just shows they were that close with their submarines. Not bad at all for the time. Hey CuongDNguyen what was so racist about slodon's remark? I was just saying today that the word racist has no meaning anymore. Every time somebody tells a joke,a story,makes a comment,speaks out against something they don't like or think is right or says or does something that somebody else don't like or agree with the first thing they yell is racist. I'm sick of the word altogether.
@amadeo - the Lusitania was a British ship (your post says it was American and then says it was British - it was definitely British). It was carrying small arms munitions (not guns, rifles, weapons) and because they were non-explosive in bulk, were legal and did not violate US neutrality. When they investigated the wreck in 2007, the cargo holds were intact, so there was no explosion from these munitions that caused the fast sinking. Modern researchers and forensic marine investigators believe, from records and research done on the wreck itself, that following the single torpedo hit, there was a second massive explosion in the ship's steam generating plant that created a huge hole. That's why it sank so fast.
Also, the Captain was warned about submarines in the area, although not told there were other ships torpedoed. The Admiralty sent out warnings that the Lusitania received - twice on May 6, and again at 11 AM on May 7. The Lusitania was torpedoed at 2:10 PM, well after warnings were received. But Capt Turner was absolved eventually. No one truly knows what's what about the Admiralty and the Capt though because the full report of the inquiry done by Lord Mersey has never been made public.
What really ticked off the American public though was that 1) many of the lives lost when the Lusitania sunk were Americans since she was traveling from NYC to the UK; and 2) the Brits spread the rumor that the Germans were celebrating the sinking, with children given school holidays.
So it was British lies that inflamed American opinion, but a lot of the traditional Lusitania story (carrying arms, explosions due to munitions, deliberately sent in harm's way) just isn't factual.
Hey War Chief....Slodon WAS being a racist with his statement to Cuong! I am sick of racists remarks BEING MADE> There is no reason for it!
Nantucket eh.....Allow me....There once was a sub by Nantuckett....etc
Divers put listening devices on the sub and they heard voices from within....."Hogan!"...."I know...Nothing!"
"Apple Struuuuudel!"
News flash...sub is just another off shore account of Romneys!
Check out that photo...The "Yellow submarine!"
I know this might disappoint people but the Atlantic Ocean is littered with literally tens of thousands of ship and sub wrecks lost over past 500 plus years. Just what exactly makes this one so special.......... I'm just asking maybe somebody has an answer.
Actually the brits were not the first to bomb a population center during the conflict between the Raf and Luftwaffe. The Germans were the first when a flight of their bombers found themselves off course one evening and dropped their bombs on London. Thus started a new chapter of the war in which both sides lost lots of civilians to each others bombers.
All such finds are important, and interesting, archaeologically, historically and sometimes socially. This one is "so special", as you put it, because it was just found, and can be linked to an historical encounter.
Glad I could help.
I don't think you remember it right. Germany declared war on the US in WWII. No other reason was needed.
Guy's you are wasting your breath trying to have a rational or reasonable debate with "Jacobite" since his name alone clearly defines his position on England.LOL. I imagine in his own company he must run around the house in kilts,blue faced and wielding a sword.. screaming "freedom" .LOL. Even though the Jacobite uprising's and Scotland's sovereignty was decided centuries ago. Somebody who can hold a grudge that long,is beyond resonable debate.
It doesn't matter his "account" is wrong anyway. London was bombed first albeit by accident. The British responded and after that all bets were off.
Nice bit of revisionist history their Jacobite. Too bad it don't fly! Both the Germans and the British tried to keep to bombing military targets alone as far as possible at the beginning of the war. One night during a bombing raid meant for I believe the London Docks, a squadron of German Junkers JU-88 twin engine bombers, due to a navigational error on their part, bombed London residential areas by mistake. Only then did the British and the RAF retaliate and bomb Berlin. The rest, as the saying goes, is history. Try reading a real history book sometime. You might possible learn something real! Try William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" for starters. It is an older book, but still has lot of accurate info.
And it's where Nessie goes when she needs a break from the paparazzi. 'nyuk,'nyuk!
Long search for what? Will Germany will probably claim it...
Its in Willard country..go figure why its found now!
Just because it's off the coast of MA doesn't mean it's "Willard country" - people sometimes make mistakes, ya know, and I strongly doubt he'd get elected here again.
But if you mean it's in "Willard country" because it's far out at sea and in "deep water," then yes, that's absolutely "Willard country." And getting deeper by the minute!
How politics enter the fray on an article written about a WWII enemy sub amazes me. But, again, a democrat is in the White House and unable to protect the borders of the United States. They do say history repeats itself.
Tell us something new, huh?
I'm kinda amazed too how politics entered into this article and then I see someone like stinky making erroneous comments since Obama increased funding to border security after Bush stripped their funding and in light of the Ryan plan that strips 80% of border security funding and is endorsed by Romney. yep, really should study more before opening your mouth and showing ignorance
Good for Obama. I never thought we would find this watercraft. This is his greatest achievement to date.
the president had very little, quite possibly nothing to do with the finding of this submarine.
How sad and pathetic that some of you are so obsessed with politics that you have to drag your prejudices onto a topic that's totally unrelated.
These finds are amazing. The more tedious these hunts are the more rewarding it is when you make "the find". The ocean is a tumultous place as tides, winds, and geography can change in minutes making these hunts even harder even when you had good intel, which they said theirs was sketchy at best.
Kudos to you and your crew. Job well done.
It is like finding a needle in a haystack to locate a wreck like this in open ocean without having precise coordinates. It is always interesting when they find one of these wrecks, but I am not really sure what prompted the search for this one. Is there is no valuable cargo to retrieve and no significant historical significance to the wreck, there would seem to be very little incentive to spend the money searching for it. It is great for them that they found the wreck, my only question would be what prompted them to go looking for it in the first place. It would have been nice if NBC had thought to include this information in the story.
JS - because it is cool, that's why.
For this one, I am hoping for some serious NAT GEO Special, with many photos. Good find.
I just don't understand the point of it, though. Why they spend thousands and thousands of dollars to find it is beyond me. Okay, so they found it. So what? They can take pictures of it and they know where it is. Again, so what? I just don't see any real value in it. Everyone knows that it went down, and they all know the story of when and how. SO what does finding the actual sub add to the story? It lets them put a precise pin on the map where it is... A lot of wasted money and energy that really doesn't help mankind, if you ask me.
So people aren't allowed to spend their own money if it doesn't, in the mind of someone like you, help mankind?
Quote from Bruce308647: "I just don't see any real value in it...a lot of wasted money and energy, that really doesn't help mankind."
This find is fantastic realia...something tangible that can help others, especially the younger generations for years to come learn about our world's history...how is that a waste of money? It was not your money, so why would you care how it was spent?
Well I'm sure a number of people were employed in the course of the search. That in turn is a contribution to the economy. Just gaining some knowledge of this piece of history is also worth something.
Something that might be interesting to find out is how many people actaully escaped after the sinking, did any survive? This story doesn't even mention that part, but I'm sure those who were searching for it were well aware of that aspect. Clearly some got out of the scuttled sub and survived at sea for at least a little while.
Seems to me that there is some money making potential out of a documentary on the incident. But why does everything need to be some money making venture? "Value" doesn't always need to be measured in dollars. There are a lot of history buffs who would love to understand more about what happened here. Salvage is probably unlikely, but documenting the detail can be interesting history for future generations. There are many things in past history that we wish we had more information about. This may seem insignificant to some, but obviously it wasn't insignificant to those who were looking for it. The money spent wasn't burned, it went back into the economy with people they paid to help and the equipment they purchased/rented. In many ways it is searches like this that fund the development of new technologies.
Value? I guess that's all in the eyes of the beholder.
From the internet. Kind of sad.
The attack severely damaged the U-550 and forced the Germans to surface, where they manned and began firing their deck guns. The Joyce, Peterson, and a Navy destroyer escort, the USS Gandy, returned their fire. The Gandy then rammed it abaft the conning tower, and the Peterson dropped two depth charges which exploded near the U-boat's hull. Realizing they had little chance, the U-boat's crew prepared scuttling charges and abandoned their submarine. The Joyce rescued 13, one of whom later died from wounds received during the fire-fight. The remainder of the U-boatmen went down with their submarine. Joyce delivered the prisoners of war and the Pan Pennsylvania survivors to the authorities in Great Britain.
There is a grisly postscript to the sinking of the U-550. According to the Eastern Sea Frontier's War Diary account of the sinking of the U-550, some of the crew actually survived the sinking and were trapped in a forward compartment of the U-boat. The survivors apparently attempted to escape from the U-boat as it lay on the ocean floor using their escape lungs. At 1515 on 5 May 1944, the Coastal Picket Patrol CGR 3082 recovered a body from the sea in 39° 51' North x 71° 58' West, about 93 miles ESE of Ambrose. The body was clothed in a German-type life jacket. From the markings on his clothing it was possible that them man's name was "Hube." A German escape lung was found near his body as well. An autopsy performed on the body indicated that the individual died only five days before his body was discovered -- the U-550 had been sunk on 16 April and the body was found 19 days later. Two other bodies were subsequently found. The first, picked up by another picket boat, CGR-1989, at 1730 on 11 May, was fully clothed, had an escape lung and life jacket on. He was found in a rubber raft. Identification marks indicated the man was a German sailor named Wilhelm Flade, age about 17. The body was transferred from CGR-1989 to CGR 1338 on the morning of 12 May 1944 and was brought to Tompkinsville. On 16 May a third body was sighted and picked up by USS SC-630. It was stated that the uniform and insignia indicated the victim had been a German crewman, although he carried no identification; that he had been in the water more than 18 days.
Coral Taxi, agree with you 100%. Based on the location of the wreck, I'd say this was probably a Type VII C class boat of mid war production. Type VII A's and B's did not have the legs to make it all the way across the Atlantic unrefeuled. I'm glad the crew got out safely as the boat would have to be left alone as a war grave otherwise.
As Coral Taxi said above, congradulations to the discovery crew. Look forward to seeing more photos.
ed
U-550 was a Type IXC/40 U-boat
http://www.bing.com/search?q=U-550&FORM=MYMSNA&mkt=en-US&mymsn-headersearch.x=115&mymsn-headersearch.y=24&qs=n&sk=&sc=8-5
And here I am watching DAS BOOT on the military chan.
Its amazing how fast google can make people seem like they got a PH.D!
Flnobody, I was coming back to amend my original post after doing some more research but you beat me to the punch. You are absolutely correct regarding U-550. . The U-552 and U-554 were both Type VII C's. The Germans, like other navies, did not always follow sequential hull numbering of different classes of boats. The type VII B and Type VII C's were identical except for the number of bow torpedo tubes but had the same range. Type IXC's were improved follow ons of the Type VII's and were usually encountered more in the Southern Atlantic waters as far as the Indian Ocean. My thanks for your correction though. Always nice to converse with other history buffs. I learn new things every day. I think I'll go watch the movie myself. Regards.
Mike for President.
Hey Mike, got anything useful to contribute? In actuality, I do not have a PHD. I do happen to have an undergraduate degree in World History with my area of specialization being World War II. How about you?
What's wrong with using google? It's a viable research tool.
Der Film "Das Boot" ist interessant, aber nicht komplett historisch korrekt.
Agree that the plot, final scene with the bombing raid and its timeframe are not accurate. But the set's detail and attempt to make it as historically accurate is why it remains one of the best war movies about the Battle of the Atlantic - and one from the aspect of the German Navy. A classic war movie - and one that shows how regardless of what uniform people wear, Sailors are Sailors and the sea is unforgiving.
History channel had 1 hr show on German subs years back. Might be on line some place. Showed Germ subs off coast of South America too. Those guys really got around. Mn boys fired the first shot in WWII with the Japanese and sank Japanese mini sub before Pearl attack......Just bragging about the MN swabbies!
Love history and find this fascinating. But: what happened to the submarine crew?
Second to "Das Boot" is the Mick Jagger produced film "Enigma" which gives a sorta fictional account of the super secret efforts used by British, American and Polish cryptographers to break machine generated military code used by Germany. If the U-550 was scuttled after being shelled and rammed as described in the article, the Germans would have done there best to make sure their Enigma machine and code books were destroyed. They would have also done their best to make sure it happen in deep water.
As an aside, when I joined the army in 1962 during the "Cold War," the Eastern European counties were still widely using Morse code for all kinda official communications. Just another bit of info that historians should make note of.
Navy Doc,
From accounts after the incident, some crew members went down with the boat. And in the following days a few bodies were found with life vests and escape lungs. The belief is that after it sunk they went out the torpedo tubes or other hatch. I don't know any details about escape provisions on this boat, but obviously an escape was attempted and at least some did get out. At the time, evidence suggested that some had likely survived for a week or more.
I think this is an interesting twist to the story and I suppose it could have some impact on the war grave aspect. With the captured crew and recovered bodies could they account for the entire crew? Did some remain behind with the intent of potentially later trying to escape? Were they just trapped when the boat was scuttled? Did they choose to go down with the ship? Is it possible that some escapees survived? All interesting questions. Seems to me there is a good documentary here in not only documenting the wreck but also maybe trying to answer these questions.
1NewDay, good points and good post. My thanks to you for bringing them up. I absolutely agree that it would make a very worthwhile documentary.
I wish they would spend time and find the SS-133 sunk of Oahu Hawaii. The story at the time she didn't have the right code to get through. Now they say it might be mechanical failure during a training exercise. BS. I would like to know the facts and it would be money better spent. My Dad had a cousin on her.
@ ednavdoc; Yes even though they were the enemy at the time, I was glad to hear they had time to get off the sub, otherwise as you said it would be hallowed.
The Germans, forced to surface, manned their deck guns while another escort vessel, the USS Gandy, returned fire and rammed the U-boat. The third escort, the USS Peterson, then hit the U-boat with two more depth charges
.........Ok, I was in the Air Force, not Navy, but still, how do you hit a U-boat with depth charges after it has surfaced. Now if it submerged again after being rammed, ok, but who took her back down if the crew had already abandoned her, and set off charges to scuttle her? Something doesn't make sense about the sequence of events.
That caught my eye as well.
The answer gentlemen lies in modern day journalism...if there's no prize potential for the writer do they really care about facts, accuracy, research, caring about historical fact etc etc etc? Too many hacks in journalism from the bottom to the top (george stephanopolis and the tea party/holmes connection. It all equals sloppy journalism.
To honor my father, WW11, Submarine Service, maverick officer, THE Gato 1944-1945. Like his fellow WW11 submarine vets...they respected what "enemy" submariners went through, as what our submarine corps went through...Highest casualty rate per size of service...lest we forget.
Dear Greenbear, history is history and I think this is a big find, I am a history buff expecially regarding WWII, my dad to was in the war a Marine he fought in the Pacific, so any discoveries are a WoW to me.
Wil....I think I read or saw show where they did not set off charges, just opened her up to take in water and started sinking. Maybe it looked like it had crew left on it, escaping?
Depth charges are set to explode at different depths....I guess thats why they are called depth charges...If you can set them to explode at 200ft, why couldnt you set them to go off at 20ft?
I have worked with and deactivated both American and Japanese WW2 depth charges. The pressure sensitive detonators are not precise enough to select 20 feet from the surface. There is a minimum pressure to set at, considering these things were either tossed into the air by explosive charges or rolled off the deck of a ship, there is a certain amount of shock, water slamming into the depth charge, a minimum that must be maintained to trigger the pressure switch. 20 feet depth is too sensitive. If they were that sensitive they would go off when first flung or dropped. Some charges had a time delay detonator.
Most news stories are technically worthless, ignorant people expounding about something they have no or worse little knowledge about. The ignorant leading the blind. As it is said, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Not MeEither -
I always thought depth charges were set by time. You estimated the time it would take for a depth charge to reach a certain "depth" (fly time included), the trigger would arm and BOOM! Using timing seems more reliable to me then pressure. Pressure sensitive triggers would seem to have too many variables. 200 pounds of depth charge hitting the water might throw off the pressure switch. Am I wrong on this?
As far as news stories and technical data, I totally agree. Name the subject and they are clueless.
I don't know whether depth charges can be set to go off at 20 feet or not, but even if they can, using them to sink a surfaced sub wouldn't make any sense. On the surface, the escorts' deck guns, or ramming, would be much more effective at sinking the U-boat quickly.
I LOVE INTERNET EXPERTS, THEY/YOU CRACK ME UP..
You want an OFFICIAL explaination on how they work, well here ya go...
OFFICIAL government manuel
WHAT THEY ARE
1 THE MARK 6 DEPTH CHARGE
1. THE MARK 6 depth charge consists of a 300 pound charge of TNT which is
fired by a hydrostatically operated pistol through the usual detonator booster
train. The Mark 6 pistol has a depth setting range of 30 to 300 feet.
2 THE MARK 6, MOD, 1
2. THE MARK 6 MOD. 1 depth charge is identical to the Mark 6 except that it
is fitted with a Mark 6 Mod. 1 pistol which has a depth setting range of 30 to
600 feet.
http://hnsa.org/doc/depthcharge6/index.htm
SOOOOOOO, ONE they can be set for shallow waters, TWO, a surfaced sub CAN be sunk/damaged by depth charges....
I didn't say it wasn't possible, I said that using them against a surfaced sub would be illogical because there are much more efficient ways of sinking the craft, and the captain of an escort ship would be well aware of that fact. Furthermore, I believe the usual way of employing depth charges involves getting the ship up to a fairly high speed, launching the charges from the stern (rear) of the ship while passing over the target area, and getting the heck out of there before the charges detonate. Having them set to detonate at 20-30 feet would give the launching ship barely any time at all to vacate the area before the explosion, and would, I think, likely result in major damage to the ship.
Another thing I don't understand: How could depth charges have been used at all in this case, even when the U-boat was submerged? From books I've read, trying to hide their sub under an enemy ship, as this U-boat's captain did, was common practice at the time. The sub would typically stay at a fairly shallow depth, just beneath the hull of the ship. The benefits of the tactic were : It sometimes enabled them to avoid detection by the escorts' sonar, and even if detected, it made using depth charges impractical or impossible because of the damage it would cause the the ship above the sub. In these cases, the only thing the escort ships could do was try to wait the sub out, as they knew the diesel-powered sub would eventually have to surface to recharge its batteries. Sometimes the escorts' patience would pay off, but just as often, the sub would eventually be able to slip away undetected.
Wil, it depends on what depth the charges were set to explode. The charges could be pre set to explode close to the surface and the resulting concussion wave severely and shrapnel damaging or sinking a vessel if it is close enough to the charges going off. A hull would still buckle like a beer can.
I always find these underwater discoveries so fascinating...very exciting for those who have invested not only their money, but their time!
Agreed. Fascinating find. Looking forward to reading more news regarding this. The article reminded me of the string of towers along the Delaware coastline that was set up as a defense during WWII.
http://www.aboutmybeaches.com/3292/delawares-world-war-ii-towers-delaware-beaches-south-bethany-dewey-beach-lewes-rehoboth-beach-history-buffs-fort-miles-re-enactment-artillery-demonstrations-102410/
Two towers left, all in the name of progress...
amjustsayin
I agree but add with their lives! Read Shadow Divers for the same story just a different East Coast location.
To the Disovery Crew - Welll Done! You show what tenacity will get you. The excitement when you found her, probably could have cut it with a knife! Again Well Done.
In regards to all what happened to U-550 - rammed, depth charged, scuttled - found in one piece? Hmm
way to go history is still being written ...
think some one will float this boat again ?
Danyou are correct they can be set for shallow. I don't remember just how deep that is but the ship (USS Kretchmer DER 329) I was on in the early 60's could not go fast enought to drop them on shallow with hurting us.
Who gives a crap about an ol U-Boat, just part of the military complex that needs ended period.
Good, then save the rest of us who do care the misfortune of having to listen to you! By the way, this is a German vessel not an American one in case you did not figure that out!
The same Military-Industrial complex that helped to win World War II and defeat the Nazis and Imperial Japanese, and prevent Europe from being overrun by the Soviet Union. I guess you would have preferred to speak German, and be part of the Nazi's Third Reich. How is your goosestep?
I think Spot is right we should get rid of our military(rolling eyes)and the rest of the world will follow in our footsteps.No military means no wars and everyone will live in peace and harmony.
I knew it was a German U--Boat. I am talking about getting rid of the Military Industrial Complex period. And as far as the U-Boat goes I don't give a dam what is done with it , to Ed and Arch. All military weapons and machines need to be destroyed period. Stop all the dam wars,
That's a great idea you have there, Spot. Please tell us who will defend you when the country is invaded by others who have not dismantled their military.
Stop living in a dream land Spot, there are alot of bad folks out there that would love to take us over.
People are violent and evil And that will never change.
Chefaz and MadNinja, Spot thinks he's got it all figured out. Let's not confuse him even more with facts and reality!
Hey Spot 1951183 do us all a favor and let us see spot run the hell out of here ! If it wasn't for our government and military, you would not be able to run off at the mouth like you do. You would not have any freedom of any kind if it wasn't for them ! Our country puts out more money to try to assist so many other countries it is unreal, and we spend very little on the military. Most branches of the military enlisted personnel that have one active duty person, and one other working spouse, still have to get food stamps and other assisted living just to get by. It is the people of our government, every level and every branch, that are extremly over paid and only work approximately one third of the year. You probabally think that this healthcare thing is good too, and you are stupid if you do. Those that still will not make enough money to pay for their fees and deductables, that amount of people is getting higher every day, and the illegals that are here and need medical attention, that do not pay medical bills because they are not citicens, will all have their bills paid by us. So, that only means that we will still be paying for medical care for everyone else,but we will be paying a hell of alot more. So since you cannot handle reality, go hide in a closet with your special blanket and suck your thumb until things calm down. The waves will start to calm down after the elections, and then you will be able to come back into reality and change your underpants !!
naw let Spot stay.
I want to give him a couple of tools tho, A hammer, a Chisel, a pick, a rope, a knife, a fork, a wire, a needle, a rock, some sand, a shoe ( heel included), a phone, and a plastic bag. Now the question is, Which of these weapons of Mass Destruction would you like to replace the industrial military complex with? It's ok, take your time.
People will find a way to hate, and to kill. Even a paper cut can do the job if you really need it to.
I still want to see the photos and film footage when its completely documented. Will be an interesting NAT GEO Special on the sunken u boat.
Maybe what spot is saying is to down size . There is no need for a dozen aircraft carriers when we can fill the sky with cheap drones and get the job done.
There is a truism that many seem to forget over time: your enemy won't attack you when then know they can defeat you - they attack you when they THINK they can defeat you. That can be a considerably sized leap between the two. I for one, love the idea that the U.S. has superiority in that which can protect its citizens, its way of life, and the freedom to complain that those that provide the protection are evil and sinister. Without those protections, complaining could be hazardous to your health (if you exist at all).
stillamotormouth: It's true the US needs a military just as all nations do. However, the US spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. To you that may be "very little" but to most people it seems excessive. The US has close to 1000 bases scattered around the world, and it's hard to justify that on the basis of defense alone.
If there is anything of value the goverment will force them to return it to germany.
Spoils of war right?
I would guess, anything of value will go to Museum's. I'm not sure on maratime recovery, but aren't the owners, the FINDERS in most cases?
If I remember correctly, (see above about those with a little knowledge), military ships' ownership is retained by the counry of origin forever.
Sure worked for Spain when Obama gave them every thing of value brought up from the bottom by Odyssey in international waters a while back! Although it is still questionable whether that galleon was a military vessel or not.
Obama had nothing to do with that.
Didn't he? He had to have approved it, as the highest levels of the Spanish government were involved. Secretary of State Hilary Clinton was certainly involved and she would not have authorized it without Obama's approval. So yes, he did have something to do with it especially when it was the Spanish Air Force that came to demand and collect the treasure in Florida! Obama and his minions agreed to the Spanish demands rather than risk what they saw as an international incident.
No, he did not "approve it" - he had nothing to do with it. Try informing yourself before displaying your ignorance and prejudice for all to see.
Gumps, sorry that you have problems with differing opinions than your own and have to be insulting to prove you point. Prejudice? Please be so kind as to state what I said that you take for such. Please be careful and be specific. By the way, just for the sake of discussion, please tell us who you think ultimately approved this.
The problem I have with your differing opinion is that it has no basis, other than your displike of Obama. Regarding your prejudice - an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge. That pretty much fits your "opinion" that Obama approved the return of the treasure to Spain.
I have plenty of grounds for which to dislike Obama, therefore my adverse opinion was not formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge, and thus does not prove prejudice as you stated. And yes, it is my opinion that I am entitled to, just as you are to yours. Also as I stated above, I at least can get my point across without the need for insults and innuendo, unlike you. I see you still neglected or forgot to tell us who you think ultimately approved this. Have a nice day.
You may indeed have many reasons to dislike the president, but there's no need to manufacture any. Your claim that Obama was involved in this matter is false - I challenge you to show otherwise. If you bothered to research this subject then you would know that it was U.S. Magistrate Mark Pizzo who ruled that the treasure belonged to Spain. I leave it as an exercise to you to find out the basis for his ruling, though I doubt that you'll bother as it doesn't support your dislike for Obama.
And how do you know that the U.S. State Department did not pressure Judge Pizzo into making that ruling? It has been known to happen before. You dot know and to be honest I do not either and I'll admit that. I have in fact researched this case and too many things just do not add up. You appear to be blinded by faith in the current administration so why should I go to the trouble of bringing up anything further that you do not want to listen to anyway. Again, I have my opinion and you have yours and neither of us is likely to change our minds so we may as well just agree to disagree and let it go at that. Again, have a nice evening.
I'm no sonar expert but the hull didn't look crushed so it was full of water when it reached it's crush depth or where it is sitting is not too deep unlike what Mazraani said. What possible good could be accomplished by trying to surface this U-Boat? Clearly it was on a dangerous assignment this close to the USA attacking well guarded convoy's to Great Britain but no real coup about that. For me to know that it was blown up, rammed and scuttled about 70 miles south of Nantucket is enough for me. I know what a U-Boat looks like so what could be so important about this U-Boat for guys to spend their own money to find it? Remember, Mazraani is a lawyer so he's got a motive to spend other peoples money but his own money? Must be gold or Nazi porno with farm animals or something on that boat thats worth some serious coin. I GOT IT!!! Evidence of Hitlers sex change operation and his plan to live out is life in Iowa as a innocent farm girl.
Now Robert let's be nice
We go after that sub for the same reason we went after the Hunley! It's history. Especially a part of history an awful lot of people in this country don't know about. The challenge of lifting the sub alone is worth it. This is discovery is so exciting plus one thing many of you might not be thinking of - when Civil War vessels like the Hunley for example are brought "home" it gives the families of those servicemen closure.
In response to your Hitler as an Iowa farm girl please .....the man didn't have the legs for it.
Maybe not the legs, but the mustache was about right.
From the uneducated, lame comments, it sounds like most people have no clue about WW2 and how it shaped the world of today.
I would say if you were to look around at the real world we live in today and say that our reality is all because of the outcome of WWII, well, speaking German doesn't sound that bad now does it?
Robert, you might want to think about your comment a little. Think about what Germany was like. Think about their idea of human rights. Think about the ability to make anti-government comments. There would have been a lot more than just speaking German, for us to be concerned about had Germany won the war.
The world would be a living hell my friend. How does no human rights sound?
Say goodbye to the constitution!
laguna
I have to agree with you.
Did you really read what I posted or not? If you were to say that the Korean war, the Cold War, the Vietnam War, The Gulf War, terrorism running rampant, The Iraqi War, Afghanistan, The Taliban and so many other horrible situations our world has been in and say that all this history was caused by WWII, well, I would have rethought that war entirely. And hey, we could have been speaking Japanese. By the way, we are saying goodbye to the constitution as we speak so do we blame WWII for that now or something else? Laguna says WWII shaped the world we live in today and if that explains why the French love us so much then I would understand that. If that explains why a circus chimp can pass high school or why organizations like NAMBLA exist, so be it. WWII temporarily stopped evil from both sides of the globe and kept it from moving into our near future and then was replaced by many other wars and threats as I mentioned above. If WWII was so great then what credit does the Great War (WWI) get? My point is I don't think that WWII has caused us all the problems we have today but if it did......
Wpw. this is like finding a needle in a haystack, or worse! Congrats to the finders; I imagine that 90% or those involved on the U.S. ships at the time are now deceased, after 70 years. Quite an impressive find, with considerable world war 2 historical facts for posterity.
Der Fuhrer will be pleased.
Die Fuhrer
Maybe it has Obama's college records and real birth certificate on it?
Troll much?
I'm sssssuuuuurrrreeeee.
Since when do rightwingers like yourself care anything for education?
I for one did not realize the Germans made it so close to our shores. Did the German crew make it out or did they perish? I think it would be interesting to see if there were survivors and are any of them alive today?
Historical indeed
44 dead, 12 survivors
They made it much closer to our shores than that; several of our ships were torpedoed on the East Coast within sight of land. The Caribbean, too, was frequently infested with German U-boats.
There were a number of attacks within sight of U.S. shores, all up and down the East Coast.
There were German subs off the coast of Texas also.
I find it frightening that the Nazis were so close to the US shore. I know of rumors and stories my parents told me from when they were growing up. I even remember the sub that made a 'guest appearance' off of Rockaway Beach in the movie "Radio Days." Still, it is frightening!
There is one U-boat that didn't get away. The U-505 was captured by the U.S. Navy under the Command of Capt. Gallery (USS Guadalcanal) 2 days before D-Day in 1944. After several attacks she surfaced and the crew abandoned ship. My father was flying air support in his PBY about 150 miles off the coast of Recife, Brazil and guided in the Hellcats and radioed back info on the operation. The U-505 was towed to Bermuda where it sat out the remainder of the war and then was towed to Portsmouth Navy Yard in 1946. A few years later it was towed up the St. Lawrence then thru the Great Lakes to Chicago where it was donated to the Museum of Science. My father would take me to see the boat many times over the years and tell me the whole story. It was the first enemy vessel captured by the U.S. Navy since the war of 1812. R. Admiral Gallery attended a re-union on board the sub at the museum in 1964 with surviving members from both sides, including the U-505 Commander. It was pretty interesting to see these guys sitting down to lunch who only 20 years earlier were shooting at each other. War is strange, isn't it?
Well they where both forced to fight so.
Thanks for your post, Mark. Very interesting. Do you still have your father??? Mine was stationed in the Pacific Theatre on a destroyer and Thank GOD he's still with us but most of his service talk has just been quaint or comical stories. He also has a wonderful scrap book with many photos, letters, notes from shipmates, etc., that he has shared with us. Other than that, he says very little about the war.
I toured the U-505 exhibit a couple of years ago. It's totally AWESOME!
Mark, Thank you so much for sharing that story!
You can just barely see Hitler