Another redneck custody hearing.

"Shot dead with a gun". It's a daily thing in the US. Not even news anymore.

Another SCUM BAG that should be SHOT as soon as he is found QUILTY..... Capital Punishment does no good if not carried out.....

OHGuy

Another SCUM BAG that should be SHOT as soon as he is found QUILTY

Don't shoot him. If he is found quilty, he should be wrapped in cotton batting, and then sandwiched between two layers of fabric that are then stitched together.

Save the bullet and cotton just bury him alive in a cheap plywood box so he can think about what he did until he runs out of oxygen.

wheels I'll pay for the box if we can put a camera in it so we can watch him suffer..

This shooting is just one of the thousands ofsurburban killings that happen all over the U.S.A. each day, yet most people just want to talk about the much smaller numbers that happen in Chicago, instead. When a suburban thug goes wild, people dismiss it. Why? Suburban children and adults don't matter?

You people are sick. You think you're better than this man, but you're not. You want to torture him for your own sick pleasure. You're no different from the wack jobs that hurt animals for fun. Seek help. You guys and the man in the story are cut from the same cloth.

How do women find these guys? There is something seriously wrong with the mate selection process in the US. This is as bad as the guy that pushed his girl friend and baby out a three story window.

If he is found quilty, he should be wrapped in cotton batting, and then sandwiched between two layers of fabric that are then stitched together.

I don't get this. Little help?

Hahahah Angry Guy,

I thought the same thing. At first I thought he was going with a sandwich but then at the end I was lost. Put him in a quilt? Idk

Guns are made for the sole purpose of killing. They are "killing machines". What is the use of them? So any pathetic excuse for a coward who doesn't have any gall or guts can mow down whoever and whenever they want without physical consequence or getting their hands dirty? What happened to duking it out? You win some, you lose some. But, you get to fight another day.

Round up all guns and melt them down. All guns, illegal, period. Why not? Then, if you have or want or need a gun then your only purpose is to kill and you will be arrested for being a fkn killer.

So weird... Another article about GUNS.. What else can the media do to push an agenda? Give me a break.

It seems that whites with gun crime are more sensational than say the 37 homicides in Chicago of July this year alone. Meanwhile, more people have been stabbed to death in Chicago so far this year than in all of 2011.

source listed below

@The Angry Guy, dissapointed and ashamed,

I was just running with OHGuy's previous post (#1.3), in which he mis-spelled "GUILTY" as "QUILTY". If you want to wring all the entertainment out of Newsvine articles and posts, ya gotta pay attention.

Ok, you repiglicans have to go. Again, thanks to your support on guns, more innocent people are dead. When are you going to get it? We do not need guns. If they didn't exist we would be a lot safer than we are now. You cannot say that you having a gun makes you "feel" safe when you are also supporting all the idiots and crazies who want to use the guns to hurt others. You have to take full responsibility for supporting these killings. Wake up? you suck. Get out of my free and amazing country, so we can make things better. Us good people deserve it.

There is no way that repubs that own a gun support killers. Come on Zen, that's craziness. They hate hearing about this as much as we do. They know it negatively impacts the outlook of guns and gun ownership.

denver bill 2

Another redneck custody hearing.

Really? Funny, this guy looks well-groomed and educated -- definitely not lower-class trailer trash........

if he's found quilty then let him hang from the pillows...

dissapointed and ashamed

Guns are made for the sole purpose of killing. They are "killing machines". What is the use of them?

I stopped reading your comment there because it's easy to see where it was leading. Hey, how about if he had used a knife, instead, would it have been any less deadly? Maybe there should be a law saying that if anyone wants to have a knife -- ANY kind of knife -- they need to pass a NICS background check, just to make sure no crazy people are able to get a knife.

Just so you know, it is very easy to walk down a crowded street and kill more than 20 people using only a Swiss Army knife. Very easy, when the person doing it is desperate and crazy enough to do it. Making all guns illegal WILL NOT stop anyone from killing anyone.

Zen Love

Ok, you repiglicans have to go. Again, thanks to your support on guns, more innocent people are dead.

First, I am not "repiglican", nor am I Republican. Second -- see my above reply to "dissapointed and ashamed".

Agnon Mema, your argument is specious. If knives were as efficient at killing as guns, then we wouldn't have an NRA, would we? Admit it. Guns are really excellent at what they do: a shooter doesn't have to risk his own life (as with a knife) by getting up close and personal, he can do it from a distance and stay safe. It's also more impersonal, i.e., there's less chance of a gunman changing his mind or losing his nerve at the last minute because of personal contact with another human being. This distance element also gives him a better chance at getting away from the scene of the crime. And guns, of course, do so much more damage than knives, ask any ER nurse. A gunshot victim sustains much more tissue damage and is more likely to arrive there DOA than a knife victim. The whole point of this recitation is that you already know all this - in your secret heart of hearts. We all do. To argue the old knife-v.-gun position is hypocritical. Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people.

people with cats kill people...

well maybe we just need pre counseling for couples about when to start banging other people like when your divorce is final and there will not be so many of these killings , a la homicide detective retired now selling insurance , told me 90% of at home and work killings were adultry related , i guess we have lost all respect for one another

just take a look at this guy he is a skin head militia REPUICK

Again, thanks to your support on guns, more innocent people are dead. If they didn't exist we would be a lot safer than we are now.

You've got it wrong. Thanks again to not enough people being armed, more innocent people are dead. And if guns didn't exist, we'd all be a lot safer? Hmm...debatable, but even if true, how would you suggest we go about "uninventing" them? Or are you talking about simply making them unobtainable for law-abiding people? The consequences of that would be the opposite of what you suggest.

I got your joke denver bill 2. :)

He was talking about toliet paper people. lol

Ever see a tp commerical?

Yes, the guy never should have killed anyone. Or even harmed anyone. On the other hand when someone commits adultery and parades their new love in front of him something is probably going to hit the fan.

I don't know if his wife was unfaithful or not, maybe this new guy happened afterwards. Still, I'm guessing there is more to the story.

It is unfortunate so many people can't be rational or keep their emotions in check, I'm just not prepared to say his wife is totally innocent in all this.

Meanwhile a little girl is going to lose BOTH of her parents.

EVERYDAY is a CRAZY-DAY , When your CRAZY .

@dissapointed and ashamed , first round up all the gov't guns first ,then all the criminals ,politicians and throw in the"gustapo" then melt them all down ,before try taking away our guns

JOregon----Sounds to me like if your girl cheats on you homicide is somewhat justified? Maybe you need your guns taken.....I know you said that nobody should have been killed but then you contradicted yourself...That is what crazy people do...Just ask one about their inner demons fighting with the good side and sometimes the demons winning...It is a well known fact...Sounds like you are dealing with those demons....Swallow your pride and ask a professional for help in dealing with those demons(And not your protestant preacher who is likely to have the same views on wife ownership and the justified beating of a disobedient one) before they win out and you hurt others...

This actually happened 5 min from my home in Waynesboro, PA. I knew the Mother and her son that were killed. Very nice people, not rednecks, not racist, just small town folks. The couple was legally separated. No cheating involved. Just a custody issue. Sick, sick world when the violence leaves the big city and hits small town America.

wow, here we go again. turning 3 murders into a political debate and not assigning the blame where it belongs. he shot them. end of story. his fault. you can "melt down" or get rid of as many guns as you want, but people will just find some other way to kill.

p.s. the precious liberal media chooses who they report on. you should be angry at them for not reporting on crime in chicago. again, place the blame where it belongs.

SW Philly

Sounds to me like if your girl cheats on you homicide is somewhat justified?

Not At All!

It is just that; if you know your husband is coming to pick up your daughter, and you parade your new piece of meat in front of him, you should expect that something unpleasant might happen.

As I said:

It is unfortunate so many people can't be rational or keep their emotions in check

The fact is many people have problems keeping their emotions under control. If we all could there would never be such a term as "road rage".

He was a lit match and she poured the gasoline.

It sounds like what she did was cruel, and stupid.

What he did was emotional and incredibly stupid.

Yes, he was stupider, but there was plenty of stupidity to go around.

PS

I don't have a preacher, pastor, minister, priest, guru, or any other such guide.

It's not the gun, it's the person who uses it.

Wow. lots to respond to. Um, at least you have a chance to run from a knife. Gun and a knife? Two different animals. Compare the two and you are part of the problem. A knife was made for other purposes. You can kill people with fingers too. A pencil. A nickel. A rocket. Water. See where that goes. Don't be ridiculous.

Why were guns made? To kill with the least risk and with most efficiency. It doesn't slice meat or hit a ball. It is a killing device designed specifically for killing. If you think knives and a bat are killing weapons genius then go hunting with them. Thought not. That argument of a stabbing spree is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I think if someone started stabbing people in a crowd most likely people would tackle them or run away. You can't stab someone 100 yards away. Idiot.

Mark S wouldn't give up his gun for the better of the country and the safety of it's citizens. Duly noted. Thank you Mark for representing the ignorant half of us. Your gun is more important than human life. We got it. What a guy huh? I bet their is a lot of Marks out there. "You ain't takin my gun outa my cold dead hands" Great. Guns have done wonders for the human race so far.

Tell me any one single positive for owning a gun. Just one. Besides killing and murder. Protection? Look, if someone wants to get you, they are going to get you. One way or another. Yes, maybe in the perfect scenario with the best of circumstances you might have a chance to stop an intruder with a gun. But, first of all you would have to be aware of the intruder, have a chance to retrieve the gun, aim, and shoot good enough to stop the attacker without shooting anyone else in the house.

You know, real men used to hunt with sticks and stones. That was when they had to hunt to eat and survive. Now it's a sport. No use in a modern society. Any wimpy shmuck can use a gun to kill. But it takes practice and skill to use a bow or a sling or a knife. You have to get hands on. That's how grown ups do things. You would rather shoot to kill from a distance. COWARD. Boys with toys. Sorry, and little girls with pink shotguns.

I fish. Maybe I should start shooting fish in the water. That's sport man! No worm, no dirty slimy scales.

I bet you think it's cool watching Sarah Palin shoot wolves from a helicopter with an assault rifle. Ugh, you people make me sick. Shoot em up!!!

dissapointed: your argument is good about the knife etc. honestly if someone wants to kill someone bad enough they more than likely could in many different ways but yes guns make it easier. the truth is though, if guns were banned, the only people that wouldn't have them would be the law abiding citizens. crime bosses, organized crime, an ever expanding military presence we have here in america, and drug lords just to name a few would still find ways to get them black market. it is just like the ridiculous "war on drugs," the people who want them, and want them for the wrong reasons, will still get them. also think about a robber; yes they do still break into homes but, the only thing keeping them from always robbing isn't a failing police system... it is the idea that maybe, just maybe someone they meet in the house will blow their head off with a shotty and rightfully so. i don't like what guns do, sure, but to ban them is even more ridiculous. and im a liberal btw.

and i hate hunting and sara palin so i don't fit your idea of a crazy cowboy lunatic idiot repub.

also the right to bear arms was originally created to encourage everyday citizens into starting a militia if need be against a tyranical govt. if the govt gets rid of our guns we cannot protect ourselves from a tyranical rule if need be. it might seem outlandish but it can happen. there are internment camps in the US look it up if you don't believe me. its called martial law and we as citizens and common can stand up to the govt and that is what that right to bear arms is all about. the truth is many of our freedoms are treaded on on a daily basis because of both bush and obama all in the name of "finding and killing the terrorists." people are surprised when some random person starts shooting everyone?! really?? im not. our society is full of hateful people and the world is cruel and doesn't need to be. some people get the super short end and in a way it is societys fault because of the way the system works. there are always going to be people that feel like outsiders. people are cruel to those that are different and look at every single gunman like this ever and you will see that they are castaways in society. especially columbine. honestly the blame lies in society as a whole. when greed and corruption and war and tyranny rule, there will be acts such as these and sadly there is no end in sight until we find what is truly important.

ashp,

I know what you're saying is true. I just wish it could be different. It's almost like we've gone beyond the point of no return as far as guns are concerned.

If I were the one in control of making the decision of guns or no guns, I couldn't do it. I couldn't tell a good, honest, law abiding person, to their face, to give up their guns. For one they'd probably shoot me, lol. I'm kidding. Two, they did nothing wrong.

I live in NH. Lots of hunters and fishermen. I fish. Don't hunt. I don't understand how they can do the hunting. You can buy most of the meats that they hunt for locally. Fish not as much. They don't sell brook and brown trout at the stores here.

Ugh. It's tough to see and read about gun violence and not blame guns. I know I'm wrong. I hate blanket rules and laws that we all have to endure because of one persons actions. It sucks. Repub or Dem., we are not the ones killing people. Something really has to break down mentally for someone to go and kill a bunch of folks.

What is the answer? IDK. I wish I did. My goal would be for everyone to be comfortable and happy.

As far as the Gubbamint is concerned, I think we are so far beyond the ability to defend against or overthrow the govmt that it's too late for that argument.

ASHP - a voice of reason. Thank you!

So long as there is hatred in this world, there will be a way to kill. Banning guns is not the answer. Guns make killing easier, yes. But, even without guns, someone somewhere will find an ever better weapon. Count on it.

I'm not a Republican but you will die trying to take my guns from me guaranteed. Guns allow innocent people to protect themselves from the police who can and do abuse their powers. It is our constitutional right to bear arms. If you don't like it then leave this great nation. We don't need your whining, scared little person here anyway.

Joe, if you intend to shoot it out with the Police - - - You Will Die.

JOregon, I support the police but if they went corrupt we would need to defend ourselves. It is true the Police have way too much firepower. But that is why we need more. I do not like the idea that our police force can take over our town. I do not think that is what their job is.

Joe

That is a really bad argument for guns.

There are many more arguments that make sense that one becomes an arms race.

Being 60 years old I remember that idea:

Get under your desk, put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye.

Disappointed: Just use a bow and arrow instead - then we will all be safe.

I am not supporting the killing, but why did this chick who was going through a divorce decide to flaunt the bf in front of the current husband and his daughter? That's a good idea if you want to possibly send someone over the edge. They haven't even divorced yet, but she wanted to make sure the husband knew what she was doing.

Again, I don't condone the killing, but I certainly understand that what she did was stupid and selfish. People do this all the time and it is dumb, dumb, dumb. My thoughts and prayers are for the little girl. Poor baby.

Right. Arming everyone will cut down on shootings. The proof is that gang members are all armed and you never hear about gang members shooting each other.

Ah yes, Archie Bunker strikes again. Arm everyone as they enter an airplane, so if any bad guys get on the good guys will have them outnumbered. The Ted Nugent idea that everyone in the Colorado theater should have been armed to prevent such a mass killing. Where have all the flowers gone?

Yes and i see how well waiting for law enforcement to save her really helped ...and since they cant and have no possibble way of removing the guns from our gang members on our streets no matter what gun laws they make ... yes i am seeing the big picture ... and the states and counties in the U.S. that allow their citizens to carry their fire arms have the lowest crime rates in our nation. so kevin you go ahead and base your decisions on your personal opinion ... personaly im going to base mine on the facts.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

You assume she wasn't armed. Apparently there were firearms in the home based on the outcome. Simply thinking having access to a firearm is going to save your butt is idiotic. Maybe simply having access to medical instruments will also allow you to do surgery.

Just by his picture alone he looks like he belongs in prison!

R. Scalzo,

Nice analogy. Having access to medical instruments doesn't mean you are qualified to do surgery, but it's pretty difficult to do surgery without them.

"and since they cant and have no possibble way of removing the guns from our gang members on our streets no matter what gun laws they make "

Yes because gangs are the only problem. I'm sure this guy belonged to one...

...and the dark knight shooter

don't see where any of this has to do with hangs...

however, I do see it as another case of white on white crime!

You want facts nicadem? Fact....a gun in the home is 40 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. But don't let facts get in the way of YOUR personal opinion.

I've been searching for any proof of your assertion that "states and counties that allow their citizens to carry their firearms have the lowest crime rates in the nation." Where did you get that "fact"? Please don't tell me Uncle Ted said so.

#2.9 meant "gangs"...not "hangs"

Or, if she had been armed she may have missed and hit her own daughter. See how that works? Being armed dose not guarantee survival, but it might just lead to more death.

USe some sense MUGTEC, you wouldn't do it on an airplane. Use some sense people, just because someone fires a round at an armed man doesn't mean "bullets are flying anywhere". Were bullets "flying everywhere" when that poor woman was forced to defend herself and her baby inside her trailer? You know what? We have nothing to worry about with the anti-gun crowd. They always shoot themselves in the foot with their own stupidty. Empowerment over helplessness. Bug off!

He only killed 3 people. That's hardly news these days

Arguing is the reason Cleeves shot them!! Really!! People can't argue or have a conversation without being shot! This is 2012, not the Wild West era!

Kevin

What's your point? A family member is 80 times more likely to be stabbed by a family member, 150 more times more likely to be beaten by a family member and 250 more more likely to be poisoned by a family member..

My point is that domestic violence is the problem, not the method of the violence.

nicademud007 everyone seems to think that more guns are the answer to all lifes problems but think about this. This man was not a gang member nor a criminal, he was an average guy who purchased his gun legally. I'm not saying ban all guns because yes gang member will still have them but please dont try and say this is evidence that we need MORE guns. guns should not be illegal to have, but they shouldnt be so god dam easy for everyone to get.

I'm thinking that with every gun sold/used there should be a mandatory requirement that the gun owner/bearer should wear a mood ring. That way everyone is happy, NRA gets to protect the wackos and the people that have some common sense can look at the wacko's mood ring in order to see if........................ awe, never mind!

gone4now: I was just quoting Archie bunker and Ted Nugent, showing they are similar idiots.

When someone wants to surprise you with a gun there is no defense against it. If someone wants to shoot you in the head, you WILL die. It doesn't matter if you're carrying an assault rifle at all times. Ban guns. All guns need to go.

BLS,

Your logic is similar to that of the fatalists I served with who said, "The one with your name on it is gonna get you, no matter what you do." My reply was, "You may be right, but what about all the others coming this way addressed 'To Whom it May Concern'?"

Bonos_rama, they matter... its just not the type of news most white people would rather read or hear about. Most would rather read/hear about black on black crime. so that they can feel better about themsleves. It makes most whites able to live with the fantasy thoughts that crime is only a black or minority-race thing. But, everyday you have whites committing some of the most ugly and sickening crimes in this nation. Blacks' killings are mostly by stupid, ignorant drug dealers, shooting at other stupid, ignorant drug dealers. They kill one here and one there, including innocent bystanders once in a while. But whites kill in mass killings. They go out looking for ways to kill innocent people in mass numbers. They take the troubles and stresses of their lives and attempt to place them on the shoulders of society. They want to die and become martyrs. So, they kill mass numbers of innocents to get into the National news.

And yet, you will still have whites crying they have a constitutional right to keep more and more guns. Guns don't kill, humans do they say. I say humans don't usually kill in mass numbers unless they have GUNS.

-

You couldn't have said it any better. You ever notice when whites committ a crime the comments are never negative towards all whites? It is seen as an isolated incident. How many isolated incidents do you need to make a generalization? Do you also notice how many comments will include a link to homicide statistics or mention what is going on in Chicago to make themselves feel better. Yet they never include links of statistics that show which crimes are mostly committed by whites (e.g. child molestation, child endangerment, domestic terrorism, mass shootings, or meth related crimes)

George---Right on...And yes gangs kill other gang members and rival drug dealers...Yes sometimes innocent bystanders...But even them are usually gang members family and if they didn't want to be shot they should stay away..But they love the money...

I did not want to make this a racial issue. But I have noticed quite often that when a sick black person commits a crime, the entire African/American population is criticized as criminals. When a black is founded for welfare fraud, the entire African/American community is found guilty of welfare fraud. But, when a white does these things, they want to point it as an idividual crime act. Whites commit as much crime as any other race in this country. I'm sick of reading blogs where racist whites are tagging me, my mother, my brother for the crimes of some black in some part of this nation I may never have even heard of. If Tyrone shoots his girlfriend, that's a crime Tyrone did against his girlfriend. It has nothing to do with the other 45 million blacks in this nation. I admit to the fact that we have a crime/murder problem in this country, but its not just a Black crime/murder problem, its an American crime/murder problem. And it starts with the prolifiration of guns in this nation. I don't care what the Gun Rights people say, this country need to do something about the guns in everyday citizens hands. If I'm not a law-keeper, I should have no right to a weapon. How many times have you read about someone who protected themselves from another because they were able to get to their gun first? Not often!

I've always said I would rather live near colored people then anywhere near WHITE TRASH

George---This is why I teach my children nothing about black and white until they are told about it by the public in school and the like...Then I teach them that we are all the same and not to describe people based on their skin color unless asked....Ever notice how some people say " That white boy " when not even asked what " HE" looked like? I won't allow this and don't do it.....We are all Americans and humans....And most of us are mixed racially anyway....You are spot on...It is an American problem...I wish the segregators from all sides would stop and all people would raise t heir children properly...

" Colored People " huh? How about you just stop labeling people....We are all from the human race...And that is the only acceptable label...Unless you are asked your heritage keep it to yourself.....And don't assume other humans heritage because you really don't know...People are labeled " Black" even if they are 5% of African descent because it is enough to be considered less than by the bigots...How come you aren't labeled White if you are 5% Anglo-Saxon ?

@denver bill 2 "when seconds count ,the police are only minutes away" ,thats if they ever arrive in the first place !i seen them take 5 hours to come on scene do a police report ,or just never bother to show up in the first place

Homicides with firearms is the big crime issue in this country. I guess the liberals and the media love it when a white guy without a criminal record kills someone. Then they can say "See, see, White people murder too".

Facts are facts. 95% of all gun related homicides are committed by Blacks, Hispanics and people with a criminal record. That means out of around 11,000-12,000 homicides, 500-600 are committed by people that don't fall into those 3 categories.

There's a small percentage of Blacks and Hispanics who commit these murders, and it's mainly street gangs.

The way to solve a problem is to first identify it and try to stop the biggest cause of the problem. When the LA police went after the gangs in the early 1990's, there was a huge drop in murders and crime. People in high crime areas were able to walk the streets in relative safety. That's the best way to go about it, go after the reasons for the bulk of the murders. The ACLU and liberals didn't like it though. They though it was racist of the police to do what they did. The police had to back off. The liberals, in their feel good delusional thinking, brokered a truce between the Bloods and the Crips. That didn't last too long and crime went right back up to where it was. That proves that going after the largest cause of a problem brings immediate and drastic results.

You want to drop the homicide rate drastically, go after the Black and Hispanic street gangs and people with a criminal record first, and then concentrate on the rest of the problem. It does no good to do it any other way.

We're talking about guns and murders here. If you want to talk about other crimes, start another discussion.

So go ahead and rant about the two White guys who are responsible for killing 15 people recently. It's a rarity. Play it for all it's worth, and keep sticking your head in the sand.

Someone posted they would feel safer living with Blacks than Whites. Come on over to Chicago and I can find you some cheap housing in the Englewood neighborhood. We'll see how long you last there.

Roodles ...Facts are facts. 95% of all gun related homicides are committed by Blacks, Hispanics and people with a criminal record. That means out of around 11,000-12,000 homicides, 500-600 are committed by people that don't fall into those 3 categories.

Where did you get your facts from FOX.......... please

I double dog dare you to provide a citation that is from a respected source. You sir are a racist liar and people like you are the reason this country is being divided why don't you back to Europe

ibjonnyc,

I'm glad you are extremely amused while people are being shot dead by your fellow gun owners. Keep shootin em up tough guy. Go kill something you awesome human being. Kill kill kill. Maybe your kid will be the next mass murderer. That would make you proud huh? I bet your first thought would be, "how many did ya git son"? You people suck!

Roodles.... You say that the two recent shooting by Whites is a rarity. Your head is the one that's in the sand.

July 20, 2012: At least 12 killed, dozens more wounded in mass shooting at movie theater in Aurora.

January 8, 2011: U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, 18 other people were shot during a public meeting near Tucson, Ariz. 6 die.

Nov. 5, 2009: 13 killed, 30 wounded in a shooting rampage at its Fort Hood base in Texas

2011: Let's not forget about the guy in Seal Beach, CA. that walked into a beauty salon and opened fire and killed several innocent people because his ex wife worked there.

I didn't even include the number of Whites that have been in the news for possessing child porn or the teachers that have sex with their students. How about the guy that killed his 4 year old step-son and his body was found under the porch about two weeks ago. How many people have been caught mixing meth in Wal Mart stores lately?

What do they all have in common. WHITE.

The thought of living in a country without trial, and defense is a scary thought.

The same people screaming for their Second Amendment rights are so quick to give away others Fourth Amendment rights.

these same people are NEVER guilty of anything yet quickly determine everyone else is based on a simple article. I'll keep the constitution we have and let this case be judged in the courts.

R. Scalzo

While I also agree with the sentiment you express, there are times when things are shall we say overwhelming. Although, while expressing outrage, with few exceptions, like retiredsgt above, the vast majority of people, including myslef, a strong 2nd Amendment proponent, will still demand a trial before a jury of his peers.

However, that always begs the question;

Would a jury of his/her peers be other murderers or criminals? Law abiding citizens don't murder or kill others.

You and your goddamned "hard earned money" whiners make me sick. At most you are personally having to put out maybe $5.00 total per year for the entire criminal justice system and yet you want every criminal taken out with a 50 cent bullet just so you can save a couple of bucks.Then you'll turn around on a dime and whine about abortion services and the sanctity of life. Sickeningly hypocritical and totally useless in terms of solving anything.

This guy has male rejection issues and that's what got everybody killed. Working on that part of American male psychology and the perpetual violence it leads to would be a lot more helpful. Damn dudes, learn to let go.

culheath

Mornin Culheath.

Very unlike you to be so critical. You usually have the more thoughtful philosophical post. Haven't had your morning coffee or tea yet?

XDm9mm

culheath

Mornin Culheath.

Very unlike you to be so critical. You usually have the more thoughtful philosophical post. Haven't had your morning coffee or tea yet?

morning...I've had enough coffee trust me...sometimes the philosophy fails and I'm left with nothing but contempt for the willful ignorance of cheap ass and cheap talk types that are as likely screwed up with the male bravado thing as this killer.

GRRRRRRRRRR....

:)

Fact: The last 3 massacres all within 3 years were committed by young, white males. Start with Columbine. Add VA Tech, the AZ massacre and now CO....not a single shooter was a woman, a minority or a member of a gang.

According to the last US government report on gun proliferation in the US...there are 200 million in circulation. Notice how the scumwads who sell mini arsenals never puff out their chests and play Mr. Hotcha Gun Runner? Oh no...not when they know they fly all of the gun control laws right under the radar making those billions in profit...That BS about how licensed guns don't kill people? More thug BS than long horns in TX produce. All these little slime buckets care about is getting THEIR way. Someone shove a foot up their behinds so they can return to earth.

All any woman has to do is take a good long look at the puss on this thug. He reeks of male intimidation. What's with the angry white Middle Aged Males in this country lately? Gentlemen is a word that must have gone out of fashion with these thugs of society all pushing, shoving, grunting, bossing and bullying. Not exactly a irresistible to women. Add their paranoia over self-protection, they insufferable, pathological need for massive doses of constant attention and who'd ever believe these Lords of the Universe are human beings?

So this is what American testosteronies come down to these days? A bunch of bully thugs? Great commentary on a classy society..or should that be classless society?

EWENT-----Va tech guy was an Asian if I am not mistaken...

sw philly...And your point is? One minority out of 3 ....keep trying. The Columbine shooter was white and middle class. So was the CO shooter.

EWent----I agree with you so stop arguing...I was just pointing out that you were wrong on one point so some idiot who read your post didn't take it as fact.....I agree with your thinking....Like I said I just was politely correcting your falsity....Sorry if I wasn't polite enough...I was trying to turn it into a "I am smart and you are stupid moment".........Peace,pot,microdot.....

And I think you owe me an apology for your rudeness....With your " Your point is" smartass comment...

Meant to say I wasn't trying to turn it into a " I am smart and you are stupid moment"

The Virginia Tech shooter was Korean, and one of the Columbine killers was actually Jewish, if I'm not mistaken. The point is, ewent, you've got your facts screwed up.

The POINT is your a idiot... lying to make a point.

ewent ,cho seung ho was "a angry asian man"

There is no common denominator here. Only that a handful of PEOPLE who were at the very least, mentally unstable, at most psychologically demented. It could happen to someone any color, race, sex. Don't bring politics into this. That's just plain ignorance.

GAdude Jews are White dude and Asians are not considered minorities if you use a global scale

Never said anything about whether Asians are minorities or not, I only said they can't be lumped into the "white" category, as ewent would like to have it. And technically, I believe Jews are considered Middle Eastern, like Arabs.

Most Jews have nothing to do with the middle east and are European in background.

Since this is supposed to be a Christian nation, why not lump all of them as Christians. Christians did kill their wives over here too.

Well, most American blacks have nothing to do with Africa, but we still consider them "African" Americans. By the same token, even though many Jews' ancestors have lived in Europe for centuries, as long as they identify themselves as Jews, they're still Europeans of "Middle Eastern" descent.

It's called schizophrenia. That isn't a race or ethnicity.

When you were growing up, like me, you weren't bombarded with the 24x7 news cycle. We read papers and listened to the evening news. The Morning news was usually local stuff and the weather forecasts.

Today, you have 24hr news channels, the Internet, Twitter, Facebook, cell phones and too many others to count.

In reality, all crime including violent crime is actually down in the United States per FBI statistics. It's just that now, you hear about every incident anywhere in the country or even the world.

Quite frankly nothing has changed except the ability to disseminate this news all over the world minutes after it happened. Years back you never heard of these incidents unless they occurred in your own area.

XD,

I kindly disagree. You are accurate in your analysis about the advances in communication and access to news but we are not getting all news. Yesterday, in my rural area, a man stabbed to death his girlfriend, the mother of his child, while she held his infant daughter in her arms. The victim' brother tried to save his sister but he too was stabbed to death. He then tried to kill his own child by stomping on her as she laid helpless on the ground in the arms of her dying mother.

That one has not even made regional news nor, I doubt will make National News. The media seems to shy away, in my opinion, of Black-On-White crime.

well folks I'll ghet blasted for this.. but isn't it time to reign in the NRA and make adjustments to all state's gun laws.. I don't buy the fact that if someone in the house had a gun this incendent would not have happened..

proudamericanveteran

OK... you got me.

The media DOES show a particular bias. I won't get into the racial elements of their bias, but we recognize that already.

Of course, if there are firearms involved, all bets are off. We all know the media has a field day with that. Especially if it's involving one of those scary looking "assault rifles", which in fact aren't assault rifles, but civilian versions that LOOK LIKE military assault weapons. However, we also know that unless the killing is done in an especially heinous manner, say total dismemberment, if it's a run of the mill knife murder, or a brick, stone, baseball bat, or similar, possibly a strangulation or other type of asphyxiation, the "national media" will ignore it.... it's not controversial enough, nor will it play into their political or anti-gun anti-2nd Amendment bias. (As long as no one mentions curtailing the first all others are subject to the whim of the media and how they see it.)

My heartfelt sympathy to the victims and families, esp. the daughter.

@ JG: I agree and today I'm not so sure how many realize that death is final and there's no turning back.

Obviously this man loved his daughter and I applaud him for that. Obviously he lost his temper and did something very deadly, stupid and damaging to his daughter.

What I read on many of the posts is anger and death also; are you really any different from the shooter? Many say in a fit of anger/rage, "I'll kill you!" Maybe it is time to stop the violent verbiage so law enforcement doesn't have to waste tax payers money on deciding if it is a valid threat or not.

If the majority of gun homicides are commited by people who are familar and socially-related to their victims, and whites make up both the majority of gun owners and the majority of white-perpetrated gun crime then why is it again that the media needs to be more focused on black-on-white crime which is statistically much rarer than white-on-white crime? Whites also make up the majority perpetrators of numerous categories of vice from drug dealing and teenage alcohol abuse and DUIs, property theft and destruction, arson, vandalism, child molestation and abuse, spousal abuse, etc. (all of which is easily verifiable from numerous non-partisan governmental and academic sources including the FBI's UCR) but we're conditioned since the 1860s to believe the only crime that ever goes down in this country is that of black-on-white crime. Hell, whites used to say the exact same things about other European groups (Cockneys, the Irish and Italians, Eastern Europeans, Jews, etc) before they magically became white (mostly through marriage and interbreeding) and thereby socially-acceptable to OG white peoples like the Germans, English, and (as Romney loves to point out) others of a shared "Anglo-Saxon heritage".

All yall so desperate to make white alright and black constantly on the attack should really read up on the actual crime statistics before droning on with that standard "black-on-white crime" hypocritical paranoia crap. If national police resources were allocated equally among predominately white neighborhoods and predominately minority neighborhoods, if we stopped-and-frisked white kids like we are institutionally conditioned to do with kids of color, if we prosecuted white druggies and alcohol abusers on par with their actual offense rates then we'd be calling that spade what it really is and be as nationally freaked out about the overwhelming instances of white criminality like we are always freaked out over the perceived criminality of other groups who have always been denigrated in our collective culture.

XDm9mm,

I agree completely with your last two posts and would just add that much of the media's or even the public's interest in a news item is based on an "up the ante" mechanism when it comes to the sordid or violent.

Also, though there are some outlets that are liberal in slant, I would argue that most are actually conservative especially since radio and newspapers are for the most part owned by conservative people. Think Clear Channel...not exactly a bastion of liberal philosophy...owned by Bain Capital it hosts such liberal wonders as Limbaugh and Hannity and has a huge market share.

Fox is obviously the largest cable outlet so I don't see where all this media is liberal biased idea stems from at all.

That's because at one point, being on the outside was more appealing to them. Everyone's moving into apartments, that's freaky. The next step down is the streets, and jail is better. I'm going the other way, I'm working to adapt with our new economy and I'm buying a house, anyway. And it will be fortified.

Maxgiver: Yes, yes and maybe.

Ciewywtb42mh6sps-23'

Great post. Thanks.

All guns are assault weapons when used to harm or kill another person. It is not what a gun looks like that makes it an assault weapon.

As sad as it is, you will likely see much more of this type of crap from people. Most fathers don't get a fair shake in the system after a break up. Put that fact together with a man over the edge with easy access to guns ( or any weapon ) and you will get this crap.

Our society has some rethinking to do on how it treats its own. It also has some rethinking to do on how we define personal safety and the value of life. Access to a weapon dose nothing to answer the question of what we can do to keep this from happening.

Go ahead society. Keep your hardcore attitude towards guns. People will keep dieing, but that is ok as long as your still alive. Go ahead society, make every dad beg to be a father, but dont be surprised when someone just plain loses it and starts blowing holes in family members.

There is no excuse for any of this. I would take ( and have taken ) great pains and suffering on myself before I would ever hurt a soul, let alone family or former family. Problem is that not everyone deals with this pressure in a human manor.

We must identify the people most likely to do these things and intervene. We can not do that if the only answer we have is the one where everyone cares only for themselves.

Ciewyt...Simple answer to that one...Because all the angry white males in the US are becoming as hostile as Middle Eastern Terrorists with axes to grind. So rather than put the focus on their own behaviors in public and society...they put the focus on minorities...These are not men...these are creeps who can't accept responsibility for their actions. McMommy and McDaddy failed them miserably. Worse, they grew into uncontrollably angry men who can't accept the rights of others much less admit others do have rights.

That Second Amendment BS they slather about is an excuse...Anyone who has actually read the Constitution would read further on that the right to bear arms was intended for a government paid militia....Now you have all these hoochies coos substituting guns for the inoperable Johnson rod in their jeans. IF they are vying for classless, useless societal twerpage...they've achieved their goals.

JG-...I think what's happened to our society stems from the constant barrage of blood, guts and gore. It's huge profit. The more buckets of blood that's viewed, the more the vampires in our society get their jollies.

Remember when a Vincent Price, Bela Lugosi or Lon Chaney movie was considered the ultimate in terror? Now compare that to freaky ass movies like "Fargo" or "Texas Chainsaw Massacre"...this has value? To whom? Cannibals salivating over a blood feast?

QE137: "As sad as it is, you will likely see much more of this type of crap from people. Most fathers don't get a fair shake in the system after a break up."

Yeah. The perpetrator in this case sounds like Father-of-the-Year material, doesn't he? Have you ever wondered whether many of the fathers in these custody cases absolutely, positively don't deserve custody? Because they are often unstable, violent and have anger management problems that the mother and the judge are able to identify in advance.

Jodeen, you said, "Give him credit for loving his daughter". I beg to differ. Most of the time it's the parents way of getting back at each other. If he loved his daughter, he would not have killed HER mother. It has nothing to do with love, kids are the little pawns.

I think they should teach more anger management, etc. in school. Women should marry the first available thug that comes along. I'd rather never marry than to marry the wrong man. That can be hell on earth and dangerous!

EWENT-----These movies you speak of are designed to do exactly that,satisfy blood lust in a fantasy way....Not for people to emulate it...Just like a driving/racing game is designed to satisfy a craving to drive super fast and reckless or a shooting game to allow you to vent and shoot the bad guys/zombies etc. But people who emulate that behavior in real life would do it regardless if these movies,songs and games existed....I think that these movies and games actually help keep the violent incidences down by allowing people to vent in a make believe setting.....But you think otherwise....And I don't want to live in your censored heavily regulated society.....Maybe you could move to the middle of nowhere or an island because we are never gonna change society to fit your non-violent Utopian idea...sorry...

PEACE POT MICRO-DOT....

It's not the movies, video games or guns. People have a choice to side with evil or to do what is good and right. Unfortunately many are choosing evil. Stop making excuses for their choices.....Evil is prevalent and more is yet to come.

Those who seem to think you can make the violence stop by getting rid of the guns, do realise that people were very happily butchering each other long before guns were invented. It isn't the gun that is the problem. The problem is the idea that it is some how acceptable to use violence to solve a dispute. We are a violent critter, race gender or religion makes no difference.

Ciewywtb: Simple answer to that one. Because blacks comprise only 11% of the population, so on a per-capita basis, their crime rate IS much higher than that of whites.

TraceyS

QE137: "As sad as it is, you will likely see much more of this type of crap from people. Most fathers don't get a fair shake in the system after a break up."

Yeah. The perpetrator in this case sounds like Father-of-the-Year material, doesn't he? Have you ever wondered whether many of the fathers in these custody cases absolutely, positively don't deserve custody? Because they are often unstable, violent and have anger management problems that the mother and the judge are able to identify in advance.

I guess you did not read my whole comment. I never suggested he was dad of the year. I did suggest that you will see more of this happening. There are instances where a mother or a father are not fit to be around children or their ex. In a case where a mother or a judge can see this clearly coming then, yes, there needs to be every effort to protect the children and the parent that is potentially in danger.

Family matters are often hard on everyone. Now imagine that you are a hard working, upstanding person who finds themselves in a position where your child is taken away simply because the break up of a relationship. Not because of anything you did wrong or any threats you made, just because you where not awarded custody. No think what would happen if time after time after time the custodial parent block, sabotaged, and spoke lies about you to who ever would listen, sometimes including your own children.

With all the other things going on in your life and all the normal hardships you now find yourself seeing your kid 1 time every 2 weeks if your lucky. No one wants to hear your complaints about how you dont see your kid enough, The state wont do anything when she disrupts your custody or when she moves to another state because some how putting a mother in jail for obstruction of parental rights is not in the best interest of the child, but if dad dose not pay he is carted off to jail because that is best for the child.

Can you see how that attitude by society might lend its self to pressurize a person so much that they would snap?

None of this is an excuse for taking the life of another, let alone 3 other people, But lets not pretend that every father over 85% of fathers that is, is incapable of caring for children or are emotional unstable. 85 to 90 % of custody go right to the mother. Are you telling me that 85 to 90% of American men are not fit for 50/50 custody?

Society must change, or perfectly normal looking people of all races and genders will start cracking more often.

Exactly.....add the corruption and bias in the family courts along with the courts that will do absolutely nothing if a mother is engaging in parental alienation and it leads to people snapping. The government is more concerned about making money of divorce and families via Title IV-D and the lawyers will do and say anything to lobby legislators to not change the laws so there is equality with both parents and conflict is reduced. The current winner-take-all family courts create these tragedies and its all so the family law lawyers can continue to bill hour after hour after hour off of not only the conflict that is inherently set up by the courts, but also their own lawyer created conflict. The system is destroying our society and ruining our families all so people n power can profit off of destruction of our families.

See, now that was philosophical! :)

No.

what thing?

His wee-wee maybe ?

wjme

My condolences. I don't know if you personally knew anyone involved, but that's immaterial. It affects you and the rest of the community as I'm sure you know someone who was affected personally as most others do.

Good luck to you and yours.

Thanks, i don't know him or anyone involved that i am aware of. I think they should turn him over to some of our good ole boys around here, give him a little hometown justice. This probably would not have made national news if not for the colorado shootings. It is a shocking thing to have happen around here, where is still safe to sleep with your house unlocked and the biggest news is usually farm stuff and high school sports.

I like your good ole boys comment...here in AR we post a sign in our yards, ARMED & DANGEROUS...kinda keeps the rif raft out :)

willow...Until one of your kids comes in late one night and ends up dead. So much for that bravado chest pumping "I gotta a gun...Now I'm a man." BS. What? Owning a gun is the rite of passage for the mentally challenged?

wjme...Congratulations..Now ...if you lived in NY City, Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, Atlanta or San Francisco? On a hot crowded subway just trying to get to work? In your living room watching TV? In your police car on patrol?

Your town hasn't had any problems not because there are guns all over the place...it's because thus far no one has had one too many to drink and argued with a neighbor and allowed things to get out of control...When it does, your town becomes another statistic.

Now your town has had a shooting and since only 80 people live there per capita it is one of the most dangerous places to live....With or without the guns....Its that redneck my wife is my property mentality that is the problem....And you voting for politicians who have the same mentality and think they can force women to have ultrasounds and not be able to get easy access to birth control since the almighty male is to make that decision or he will shoot you and your brother right in front of his daughter that some one above thinks is him loving her.....

Ok well i am not some naive backwoods bumkin who is oblivious to crime and the problems this country has, but thanks for prejudging me. i dont vote i refuse to waste my time and energy on choosing the lesser of two evils, and both sides are equally evil, deny it if youd like but obama is bush is clinton is romney, etc. I happen to be female, so your arguement about possessive men is right on with me, i hate that type and think they are the most disgusting kind of person there is. My town does have problems, we do have some crimes, we do have some domestic violence issues, just like every other town in the U.S. Its not friggin mayberry lol. And we arent all rednecks and republicans. I dont even know why i am defending myself, bottom line is 3 people are dead and a little girl is scarred for life and all people can do is use the situation to argue politics, and try and get their agendas across as usual. I still believe is he had used another weapon this wouldnt be more than local news, a few years ago we had a man kill himself and his two kids via car exhaust, no uproar there, no newscasters, no comments on nbc, no call for banning cars, the problem isnt guns, or knives, the problem is people and if someone wants to kill someone they will find a way.

EWENT, I live in this community as well. The reason our crime rate is so low in Franklin County, PA is because of the people who live here respect each others rights. It is true that most of us are gun owners, it is a big hunting state. However, unintentional shootings here are virtually non-existent because we also know to use our weapons responsibly. The shooter was not from this area, he was from Maryland.

I knew the mother and son that were killed. I do echo the previous posting, however, bring Mr. Cleeves back to Franklin County. I know several neighbors of the victims who would be more than willing to save the state a lot of money.

These situations always cause debates about gun control.

You guys look at the picture and see some heinous red neck, gun crazed, Ted Nugent wannabe. I see a man who worked hard to support his family, only to watch his wife commit adultery and destroy his family. I wish these situations would cause debate about no-fault divorce. A woman leaves a man for a new boyfriend and that man loses his kids and has to move out of the house while the new boyfriend moves into his home to spend 5 days a week with HIS kids. And there's virtually NOTHING he can do to stop it. This situation happens FAR TOO OFTEN for poorer families that can't afford to take a divorce case all the way to trial.

The unfairness breaks men down to the point of despair. Obviously the dude should have killed himself instead of the three people he killed. Obviously the families of the dead deserve FAR MORE sympathy for what happened. However, knowing first hand what this guy is going through, I have some sympathy for him. Not much, but some.

I refuse to call for his torture or execution. Let him rot in jail.

The Cyanide guy should win "Solution of the Year" award!

ewent, why dont you leave this country... there are plenty of countries that probably support all your liberal beliefs. Thats not what this country is based on.

proudamericanveteran

Proud, I posted the below in response to another noting basically the same thing. And I ask you, have we really changed, or is it that now, with the 24hr news cycle, that's all we hear about?

When you were growing up, like me, you weren't bombarded with the 24x7 news cycle. We read papers and listened to the evening news. The Morning news was usually local stuff and the weather forecasts.

Today, you have 24hr news channels, the Internet, Twitter, Facebook, cell phones and too many others to count.

In reality, all crime including violent crime is actually down in the United States per FBI statistics. It's just that now, you hear about every incident anywhere in the country or even the world.

Respectfully disagree. See my post above. The statistics may show a decrease in violent crime (little dubious since FBI reports are based on information sent in from localities) but the heinousness of the crimes has seemed to have reached new heights.

P.S. Keep posting. Like to read them even if we not always agree.

Proud...

While we might not agree entirely, in the broad sense we generally do. It's just the specifics where we might get bogged down. But isn't it amazing that even though we might not entirely agree, I don't remember a time when either of us denigrated the other or devolved into the name calling.

That being said, if you note my post above, things really haven't changed.

Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Jeffery Daheimer. Ted Bundy. Zodiac Killer. Son of Sam. Let's not forget the guy in, memory is failing me here, was it Wisconsin or Minnesota that killed using a wood chipper?

The difference today is the national media grabs the story and puts it out for the world to see. As some like to say "back in the day", when it was papers, radio and two or three local channels, it was the editors decision what to run and that was dependent on when it happened to hit his desk. The viciousness of the crime really isn't any greater, it just how much broader an audience is made aware of it. AND how much the media wants to cover it, exaggerate it, or blatantly speculate or lie about it.

As well there's the "up the ante" function I mentioned earlier. Both the killers and their imagined or real audiences are subject to and ever increasing desire for stronger stimulus...it's no different than the junkies need for increasing dosages. Roman coliseum spectators were always clamoring for ever greater spectacles and human carnage.

Rural people who are not confronted with the day to day rapid and massive movements of whatever sort that happened in large urban centers can easily be overwhelmed and shocked if they should visit a city. But should they extend their stay they will, like everyone else living there, eventually become inured and start looking for the very excitement that at first overwhelmed them.

The effect is true whether you are talking about level of warfare, street and domestic violence or the media reporting on it or the expectations and tolerances of those consuming the media. People who pine for a more bucolic and rustic America will never find it as long as they stay connected to the 24/7 global media.

Proud - I'm a pathetic Christian, if even that. I don't go to church and I really don't know what to believe thoelogically. You could probably almost call me an athiest. But I do follow the principles of the Bible, mainly because I believe that it was written solely to bring order from chaos, and it was very well written (some things maybe not so good). I was raised with it, and I'm very glad I was. Yes, I'm the guy you'll hit with your car and when you apologize I'll be helping you take the dent out. I do believe that losing religion is a mistake for most of us. I truly believe that if religion had more prominence in today's society, murders and crimes against others would be significantly lower. And I also believe that other little things that contribute to keeping the masses sane have also been stymied by bad people and government. At one point, there were more guns than "crazy" people (you know, the people who are on anti-depressants to control their energy A.K.A. so their docs can get kick-backs from Pfizer) but now I fear it's the other way around.

One does not need religion to lead a spiritual and/or ethical life. When economy and social status become all consuming, other elements of living a good life take a back seat.

The US has become the Second Coming of the Lawless Wild West. That's exactly what was planned by the swaggering boom booms of the last decade. Some of us are getting fed up enough to demand an end to the NRA with its billions handed to politicians to give the NRA members more a right to live than the rest of the people in this country. Take out a few dozen here and a few dozen there...and sooner or later, you've got the remaining citizens living in mortal fear of walking outside on the streets our taxes all pay for. But NRA members taxes are the priority ...not ours. Right?

Silence is all we get from the 3 CO gun dealers who sold that shooter all that ammunition and those guns. What's with these cowards? Big time talkers when it earns them a profit off the deaths of innocent people. Then, comes time to man up and their manhood turns to raisins.

Oh, please. Religion is the answer? Ultra-religious societies and people are some of the most violent around. If there was a connection between believing in God and good behavior, prisons would be full of atheists, which is patently NOT the case. This country needs less religion, not more.

Tracey---I respectfully think you missed the point....It is not organized religion that is the solution, it is the problem like you correctly stated....But if people just lived by the morals taught by Jesus then no doubt we would have a great society....I mean how can you go wrong with " turn the other cheek" ? His whole thing was to throw out the old testament......And the organized churches have used just that to justify all of their heinous crimes against humanity...Like the inquisition, Salem witch trials, last but not least the southern Baptist slavery excuse where they edited in translation of the King James Version about Noah's Black son Ham being cursed to carry water and haul wood for him and his descendants( Which they say is where all dark skinned people come from, forget what every anthropologist in the world says...Remember to them the earth is roughly 5 thousand years old) for eternity for looking at him naked( NO B.S. look it up I did and it is only in that twisted translation of the bible) which is totally made up....Bottom line do what Jesus said and forget the old testament and treat others as you would treat yourself or your own and if you choose to study his teachings with family or friends fine....But stay away from preachers and churches, they are only trying to make money and control people to their very own nefarious ways....Best is to live your life as close to Jesus as you can though you don't need others to do that...

Hmmmmmmm......No response ?

China owns perhaps 10% of US interests. Not to worry.

Guns are an efficient short term problem solver for impatient, angry people.

They suck at long term problem solving though...sort of like suicide.

1st, American woman have their fair share of violent child/family killing problems as well. If you do some research you will find plenty of examples.

#2. Take a a bit of time to get some statistics on how American men are treated in the family court system. The vast majority of custody is given to mothers with no logical reason for 50/50 custody to no be granted. When men go to see their children or pick them up from mom, many times they are stonewalled, interfered with and their rights are not respected by the mother who has the backing of the court system. When dad fails to pay support, he goes to jail. When mom fails to let dad have his children par court order, they are slapped on the wrist at most in many cases. Why do the courts not put mom in jail for breach of order? Because it is not in the best interest of the child..

None of this is a reason to blow anyone away, but when you have a society that will go after "deadbeat" fathers in an instant but leave Morally bankrupt mothers alone when they defy court orders you are just asking to set some of those fathers off.

In my mind, anyone who commits this kind of crime deserves no excuses, but let us not deny that family matters pressurize people, and that pressure will crack some.

Pattie...No matter how many strict laws our government provides to keep men from abusing women and children...these men just feel it's their right to do whatever they please. I always opt for taking out their family jewels when they get too mouthy. It's an old trick of self-defense my 5 brothers taught me. A swift kick where it hurts the most. Just one more useless Johnson rod out of commission for a while.

QE137-----You are correct in your assesment.....I believe that if you want the child you should support said child....See how many of these mothers want their child then....I call child support ransome and I don't think hostage takers should be negotiated with...I personally and I know others that this happened to was allowed to have my son full-time and my wife didn't visit with my son except maybe for a total of 40-60 hours a year as long as her payment arrived on time....When I didn't pay she had the cops as her back-up come and take him( I didn't pay just to test my theory) Now do you think this payment has anything to do with raising him? No since I am the one who had him....And what about the cases where a father has to provide for her home for the children plus his own place for the kids to come to...Why should a father have to pay for both? I thought women were equal ? Like I said if you want the kids pay for them....All of this child support stuff needs to go away .....I mean we realized debtors prison was stupid a thousand years ago...Why did we bring it back? Ironically The Delaware Family court is modeled after English courts of the fifteenth century of there abouts...

Custody stuff is really hard to judge because it depends so much on the individual people involved and their behavior in their interactions. It also is based on the traditional pattern that it is the mother who provides the physical care of the child (i.e. baths, chasing after toddler, wiping bottoms, doing laundry, doctor's appointments, drying tears, talking to teachers, etc.) and the father who provides the money necessary to finance this endeavor. How well the legal system is adapting to changes in this stereotype is a matter of opinion. But the system is supposed to determine the "best interests of the child" so the behavior of the parents--both of them--is totally important; how well each of them provides the physical care, whether he or she has exposed the child to something bad (like being drunk or high or cursing) or harmed the child. This makes it damned difficult to judge whether discrimination plays any role in custody determinations and, if so, to what extent.

In any event, at least one of the two cop-shooting incidents involved a shooter who already had done something that made his ex-wife apply for a restraining order, which leads me to believe that either he wasn't managing his dispute with her very well or he was either (or both) the "my way or the highway" type or the "if I can't have you, nobody else will" type--both of which are irrational and involve threats to the other person.

ewent - jeez , i have been reading your post and was just wondering if it would be possible for you to be creative and find even more ways to talk about cock and balls? its like you have an obsession, a very tired obsession. you Have White Men issues, we get it already. its All our fault, and i would like to apologize, but i cannot bring myself to do it. the reason ? well i'm glad you ask... its because you Dear, have all the "Swagger" and "Bravado" of the type of men you like to trash, not to mention an unrestricted, prejudiced, Texas Republican size Mouth. my God you are an obnoxious character (I'm not saying you are Redneck Texas Republican, just that you are equally willing to Regurgitate an impossibly Narrow minded and prejudicial, not to mention self serving point of view... and it just occurred to me, Basically YOU ARE a white Male !... Ahh.. i really enjoyed sharing that small revelation, and the Laughter ! ... thank you) I'm sure you are probably very nice most of the time, just not when you are Drinking.

well, i feel better... and really, reading what you posted was Quite the Thrill Ride, but now its got that "been there, Done That" feel. so i guess I'll see you in the funny papers... Have a Better Day !

If you remove the catalyst - everything would be fine!!! That catalyst is WOMEN!!

Don't forget it is women who are raising these violent men.

But it's the men who are perpetuating the violence. So let's take a hard look at how they are being raised and whether they are being taught that violence is the answer to every problem they have. Women get angry, too, about domestic matters, infidelity, political issues, and just about everything else, but we don't seem to be hurting and killing people over it to this degree. And since there are so many men who don't engage in violent behavior, it would be worth researching the difference in their thoughts and upbringing. This appears to be a cultural problem of not being taught how to handle anger properly, not being taught a basic respect for others, and of having unrealistic expections. If a child isn't taught to respect other people at an early age, it seems the child will never learn this most important of lessons and will remain antisocial. It would be interesting to compare American behavior to Canadian society, for instance.

Maybe they needed a good strong male role model in helping raise them too.

Sorry. I don't accept blame for something I haven't done. I raised 2 sons...Neither one knows how to shoot a weapon...They know how to defend themselves with bare knuckles and have when it was necessary. As for needing a strong male role model...that's BS too. Most of these 30 somethings came from families far more affluent than the Baby Boomers of the '60's. Those strong role male role models? You mean like Sandusky? Madoff? Nixon? The suit a man wears is no indication of his capabilities to live up to his manhood.

What I think is hysterically funny are the angry white Middle Aged males who go off on the president. You want to know what their greatest fear is? A man who comes from humble roots and a single Mom and ends up president...think about it...The same Clinton bashers are out in full force with this president and the only link between the two presidents is being raised by single Moms..according to these male mentalities that's a no no that makes their egos deflate faster than their Johnson rods.

The real problem with the younger men today? Overindulgences...ageing out at 35 and then culture shock when they enter the real world of adult responsibility.

It has nothing to do with them being single parented by their mother... maybe thats ahy they think they need to "mother" the american people and tell us what we can and cant do.

If you look just at the top of head , he looks like Zimmerman...just sayin'.

Segdirb..More women than men choose single life after they divorce. Marriage is something you only need to do once. Fail at it and then admit the failure and move on. Don't talk about women and drama...what's more dramatic than a bully taking out 12 innocent people in CO? Try again.

If you look just at the top of head , he looks like Zimmerman...just saying'.

LOL...that is JUST what I was thinking...

@Segdirb...are you one of those "See me!, Feel me!" dudes?

In Holmes case maybe the bullets wouldn't have "penetrated" his armor, but, if he had been hit by just one qualified persons bullet , he most likely would have been knocked off his feet or severely distracted.

Having access to a gun is different than having one when it comes to defense. Having one at hand doesn't guarantee survival, it just means that you might have a chance, where being unarmed means you and maybe others are slaughtered.

There are more guns then ever and still in the U.S. gun crime keeps going down. Accidental child death is one of the lowest reasons for child death. White on black crime is much lower than black on white crime same for white on Hispanic crime, it is much lower than Hispanic on white crime. Black on Black crime and Hispanic on Hispanic crime is off the board.

A few years ago a women committed mass murder in Santa Barbara, Ca. Like Purdy the mass murderer that caused the beginning of the California attack on "guns'. They attacked guns because of this instead of the reason he could do this. This lady and Purdy couldn't purchase guns in their own states because of mental problems, but, because of the privacy act, their mental health problems were not in the records the law checked before issuing them a permit to buy a gun. I am not sure that this issue has been corrected as of now.

Yes , it is proven that the death penalty doesn't prevent these crimes, but, it does stop these murderers from ever harming another person, in or out of prison.

car31...Sorry...the problem with the gun nut mentalities is they simply do not want limits to anything that might save other peoples' lives. This, they don't admit because they know how obvious their lack of responsibility would be to the world they live in. Gun crimes have increased...with 200 million guns in circulation in the US? And the population at just 230 million plus?

It all comes down to who is selling these guns. The gun control laws we have won't and cannot work if gun runners ignore them. So who really is at fault for guns getting into the wrong hands?

Ted Nugent (an real idiot) Not that he isn't an idiot but if you are gonna call somebody one at least use proper English...." An idiot" like I typed would be okay but when you added" Real" you needed to drop the "N" as in " A real idiot " I see this all of the time by educated folks in the media so I see where you got it from..They are always saying " An historic moment " When it should be " A historic moment " you only add the "N" when there is a vowel at the beginning of the next word...Like idiot as in " An idiot "

I am only correcting you respectfully not to insult you and as a service to any body reading your comment so they don't think it is correct..... And I am by no means perfect, feel free to politely correct me also...........PEACE POT MICRO-DOT

ewent - i am not without sympathy to the Family's of crime victims, who suffer for the loss of a loved one, i am a Hospice Nurse by Trade, i understand the Grief behind losing someone. but i think that with the EXCEPTION of making sure the Mentally ill are not purchasing Guns, that letting our Government Decide what Freedoms we can and Cannot have, might Be... oh, i don't know... IRRESPONSIBLE ? i own a couple of pistols.. I'm not sure that Qualifies me as a "Gun Nut"... but you might not be totally accurate regarding the reason that a number of Folks Resist Gun Control. my point of View has always been that the "powers that be" Know they could not get away with an Abrupt Decision to Disarm the Public, and they would not bother to try it, as much as they would like to. but by implementing Gun "control" laws, they can start small, Banning the more obvious choices in weaponry and licencing restrictions, a start to setting a precedent for the continued action of Deciding for us "if and when" the public is ALLOWED... (you see what I'm getting at ?) and of course the "little by little" approach Softens the public, to the idea that Big Brother is Taking Away our BIG STICK... and I'm thinking that an ARMED REVOLT (should our Government go too far dictating our "freedoms" to us and "Customizing" our Democracy, Not that they ever EVER WOULD Do such a thing,.. UH HUH !) would no longer be perceived as a threat to those A-holes in Washington (you know the ones, they work for lobbyist, big corporations... sometimes even us) And That would likely turn out bad for us.. it would JUST be ignorant and careless not Believe that they can and possibly Would, use gun control laws to Erode our right to bear arms, and Relieve us of OUR DUTY to protect the Hard Won Freedoms we take for granted, by taking away our ability to at least make a Small but credible Armed Resistance. Every Single time we discount the seriousness of Giving Up just a little bit of Freedom.. you know just a little bit here, and maybe just a little bit there, THEY KNOW they are a bit closer to holding the keys to the kingdom (so to speak)... and Since You are Very Concerned that GUN OWNERS have no interest in the Rising Body Count you speak of, please indulge me in one more important and Relevant Fact.. The Cost of Freedom, is Very High... SO MUCH Has been paid Already... the COST OF FREEDOM IS BURIED IN THE GROUND. and they Have Names... my families name, probably yours too. And THAT is a Body Count that I Remember First, and Foremost.. i will not SACRIFICE the freedoms won by Americans who laid down there lives for us. even though i am sorry for today's crime victims... i suggest protecting yourself from Violent People, and Guess What ? a good Firearm in the RIGHT Hands, is the Best Deterrent. even though YOU WON'T ADMIT IT. (see what i did there ?... ) thanks for considering both points of view. And Have a Better Day.

I hope you aren't using that as an argument against speed limits.

Once again the media got it wrong. Head line should have said, "3 Murdered in Pennsylvania"

The death penalty is not a deterrent because they know if it is carried out, it will tak 20 years. That's 20 years of 3 hots and a cot, cable, computer access, health care...a quick death penalty is much more of a deterrent.

"a quick death penalty is much more of a deterrent."

It's also against the Constitution.

So what your saying is you got some guy that walks into a 7-11, planning on robbing it, and meets a cashier with a 380 on her side and 3 dudes with 45's on their side buying beer and nachos and changes his mind??? Who'd of thought??

Some people are just a little slow willow.... they take time...

What are the statistics in those same right to carry states with regards to accidental death by firearm? What are the statistics in those states for children killed by accidental discharge of a firearm? . I could keep listing things for you to look up, but I think I would have no keys left on my keyboard.

When you give stats on the positive effect guns have in a given area, please make sure you give the negative effects in those areas, because we both know there are negative effects.

one sec! ill check buddy!(:

Here we go! this is from the U.S. Census bureau, its a little old but best chart i could find! oh an it's all by year

Accidental death by motor vehicle or traffic: 43,649

Falls: 14,968

Random ones in between....

Firearms: 1,134

So theres the negatives... it makes me much more afraid to walk in the road, stand in the shower, or walk down the stairs than keep a gun in my house... and good practice btw always can prevent gun accidents, my son knows that guns are not pointed at people at all, on one condition, his nerf gun may be fired at a person if he is fired upon

Im asking for the statistics between states with soft gun laws and those with more restrictive.

Example If Pennsylvania is soft on gun ownership and Virgina is more restrictive, Dose PA have more gun accidents then VA?

You went out saying that those states had such and such % fewer robberies, but you did not say if they had more gun related accidents.

Look I'm a firm believer in people responsibly arming themselves. Statistics do, in fact, show that those states have less violent crime. It's a fact. Or, as Al Gore would say, an inconvenient truth. But if we're looking at absolute values, you've got to remember that more people drive than carry weapons, more people shower (hopefully!) than carry weapons..etc etc. So I'd like to see the RATE of deaths from negligent discharges. I bet it would be higher than those numbers imply.

Just the same, the benefits outweigh the negatives. It all comes down to training with firearms. I'll wager that lots of these accidental deaths are from people who simply have no idea what they're doing. Firearms are 100% accident proof; the people who handle them are not.

Suicides accounted for about 58 percent of gun fatalities, or 17,000 to 18,000 deaths, another 11,000 deaths, or 37 percent, were homicides, and the remaining 800 to 900 gun deaths were accidental. For rural areas, the big problem is suicide; in cities, it’s homicide.

I can't find anything on the state to state ratio but im working on it guys!(:

Sorry i couldn't find anything that had straight up facts on the differences between states with strict laws or not! maybe you should try and make an un-biased site about it! that would be cool

liberals will never want anyone but government to have guns - because stealing a working man's money is much easier...

Tim---What about the remington shotgun with the defective firing mechanism that they know about and refuse to fix that has maimed and killed lots of weapon savvy people? Bottom line you can't say 100%....Not if you are concerned with being factual anyway.....You could always get a job with Fox and Friends.....

The Remington 870 shotgun has a trigger safety on it. It keeps the trigger from being pulled. You should never keep a shell in the chamber unless you are ready to shoot. If there is a round in the chamber and the gun is dropped or is hit very hard, it might fire. Savvy gun people know this. Anyone who keeps a shell in the chamber is responsible for what happens to them. It evens says in the 870 manual not to keep a round in the chamber and to unload it when you are done shooting before entering your car, tent, home or whatever.

SW philly: couple notes for you:

1) I made a generalization so that I wouldn't have to write 500,000,000 disclaimers on a freakin MSNBC post. This ain't the supreme court, hot shot.

2) The fact that you attacked a technicality in my statement means you don't like what it represents but know it's correct therefore you try to "disqualify" it on a technicality. Super job

3) Here's a technicality for you. If the gun goes off and hits someone...that's the person's fault. Rule number one of firearms: every gun is loaded and will go off as soon as you point it at a person. NEVER allow the barrel to face someone....ever.

Have a great day. Hope you're not aspiring to be a lawyer.

Tim - Well Done ! i love it when you know that folks DO understand that Basically, you make a Reasonably accurate point... but will Sidestep any way they can to avoid conceding or even compromising a little bit,.. as if there was a large cash prize at stake... the art of "Give and Take" in civilized conversation.. Has become a rare phenomenon! too bad, there is no longer any of the subtlety and nuance that keeps the mind open to possibility, and facilitates an open discourse..... SO F*** EM'... LOL !

Fair enuff?

Midnightridr - i Believe you Have Achieved Wisdom, in Recognizing Futility, and ignoring idiocy, until there is enough of it to Really Bludgeon Someone over the head with it. Minimum waste... Maximum Grace... (and a maybe little Spattered blood... life is messy)