Wow, you took out of context statements in order to defame someones character. Typical right winger non-sense.

through exaggeration and distortion - which he does,

Only a sceptic would say that. No firm believer would say Al Gore exagerates.

He worked for the Cock brothers in an attempt to disprove global warming and found the same information that all scientists in the field find. That it does exist and humans caused it. Get over it!

Who cares whether or not he was a skeptic. The fact is he headed one more study that found a dramatic warming of the Earth's climate.

Ok, now everyone who thinks humans have caused climate change go to work in your four+ passenger car BY YOUSELVES and think about what you are NOT doing to change things. Most of you would rather die of heat stroke than ride public transportation. Hypocrites.

Yeah! Just look at the U.S. Drought chart. It says it all.

that essentially 2 words that show there is still some doubt to the subject.

What about the first 150 years of the 200.

What about the ocean sucking a large part of the CO2 up and then add in the plants that use it. Bet they take care of most of it

Amazing. Even when a scientist that was a skeptic changes his mind and blames humans for Global Warming the naysayers still keep their heads buried in the sand.

But, no matter. Whether you believe it was caused by humans or not really doesn't matter at this point. What matters is that even if we were to bring green house gas emissions to zero today it would be too late for the damage has all ready been done. We, and future generations, are going to endure the consequences of polluting our atmosphere.

It's not going to be a space rock that spells our demise. It's gong to be us, human kind, that will bring about our own extinction.

If we ignore it, it won't be real; and even if it IS real, it's natural, not caused by US, so there's nothing we can do about it except buy bigger cars, drill for more petroleum, generate more electricity, buy more and bigger televisions, and enjoy our march toward, if not extinction, a dieback; maybe the wealthy will survive!

Oh im sorry KaptainCrunch, only 95% of scientists. 100% if they aren't paid to disprove other scientific achievements.

And poptech and maybe HeartsQuest,

I wrote this earlier when addressing the same non-science you two are claiming disproves man made global warming. It should address your confusion in simple to understand terms.

Billions of years ago, when dinosaurs ruled the earth volcanoes erupted much more often, this was because the earths core was much hotter. You see, the earth formed over Billions of years, with rocks colliding with the molten lava that was to become our earth and creating extremely hot energetic reactions. These hot rocks eventuly formed into a sphere we call earth. The surface of the earth then cooled creating the crust we know today as terra firma. But energy, in the form of heat still remained in the earths core and needed to escape. That is why volcanoes exist, even to this day. Those volcanoes spewed molten rock consisting primarily of carbon. This increased carbon in the atmosphere that caused an explosion of plant life in areas that could sustain growth. Because plants breathe (inhale) C02, carbon dioxide, that is one carbon molecule and two oxygen molecules. They exhaust oxygen which we breath and convert into CO2 and so the cycle continues. But the core has cooled more now than it was way back in the time of the dinosaurs and that is why we see less volcanic eruptions.

Most scientists think that the dinosaurs went extinct because of an asteroid impact that caused the sun to be blocked out for many years. This ushered in a massive cooling period and caused the earth to freeze over, we call this the ice age. Sure these where all natural occurrences, but on a very massive scale. Today we are recreating these massive changes by taking the dead plant matter that turned into oil during the great extinction of the dinosaurs and placing it back into the atmosphere. Essentially recreating the volcanic atmosphere that existed during the time of the dinosaurs.

How do we know this? Well, oil is decomposed plant matter that has been fermented over millions of years. Plants, like trees, bushes, grasses and in the oceans algae, store and convert CO2 in the atmosphere into breathable O2. They use the Carbon like all living things to create tissue. All living things exist because we are made of carbon. When they died off the carbon settled into the ground and was kept away from the atmosphere. Until today when we began extracting the oil and burning it, filling the atmosphere once again with ancient carbon emissions.

This is why scientists are in agreement that we are causing global warming. You can deny it all you want but the fact remains that Carbon in the atmosphere causes heat to remain trapped in the atmosphere. I could go on for day's regarding the reasons as to the different environmental effects such as more rain and snow but I think your great education would have taught you something about evaporation and ocean currents. So I will for now say class is dismissed. Go forth with your new knowledge about the world and spread the word.

HeartsQuest, the cooling and warming trend you talk about varied within a few degrees and happened over hundreds of years. Our global temps are changing over a period of tens of years following a massive increase in CO2 in the atmosphere. CO2 and temperature relate exactly, so more CO2='s more heat. Get it?

I always get a kick out of the hypocritical Right Wingers, they don't want their kids to have to carry a national debt but heck who cares about an unliveable environment that poisons them. Doesn't matter the cause, if we can slow it we need to work on it. Doing nothing is not an alternative. It strikes me that nothing can change until you quit with the denial crap and pull your head out.

I must admit that this is all akin to "A Comedy of Errors." So, he is claiming that the man-made global alarmists are right in that man is THE cause of global warming. And, he says "the prior estimates of the rate of global warming are accurate." But, that he "remains skeptical of some climate-change claims." "Hurricane Katrina cannot be attributed to global warming. The number of hurricanes hitting the United States has been going down, not up; likewise for intense tornadoes. Polar bears aren’t dying from receding ice, and the Himalayan glaciers aren’t going to melt by 2035."

So, man's causing global warming but the results claimed by the global warming alarmists aren't true. WHAT'S THE POINT? So, man is causing global warming, but all the damage that the global warming people say is caused by global warming isn't happening. Well, that's good to know. So let's move on to other subjects, like why can't Johnny read?

FlyingEnergy,

You see, the earth formed over Billions of years

NO! NO! NO! The Earth was made by the Magic Sky Wizard in 6 days, 6,000 years ago. He also says it's ok to pollute as much as we want because his boy Jeebus or something breathes carbon monoxide.

Okay, I'm not a scientist, only a retired office manager, but if I can comprehend TIME is the debate, not the cause, then why can't these guys?

What causes global warming? Man or natural cycles? It's moot at this point. It IS happening...

But if man evolved, growing crops and domesticating cattle, because of the slow (10 to 20 thousand years) of warming from the last major glaciation, and the latest warming is happening in approx. 200 years, then the question begs to be asked...

How fast can humans evolve???

...but if you are a famous scientist, you can make a lot of money by selling your soul to the Koch Brothers.

basically that's the story of 'have your cake and eat it too."

What if it all stopped in six days? No, really. Like Star Nations landed and all mining and oil production stopped. All nuclear and coal stopped. All water polluting chemical productions stopped. What if it happens because it's either that, or the whole planet will have to pay for our sins with its destruction. What if? Tick-Tock.......

from: eceti@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eceti@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of jamesg
sent: sunday, july 29, 2012 3:22 pm
to: eceti@yahoogroups.com
subject: [eceti news] looks like he called it

*
we are having incredible sightings, mother ships, scout ships, and 30+ ships a night flying over eceti . the pleiadians are taking control but do not think they are going to do everything for you. it is up to all of us to do our part.

**first contact*** on saturday august 4th - london olympics

pleiadian channel
by glr micah

friday, july 27, 2012

it is now established and was decided as of earth date, wednesday july 25th, 2012 by the pleiadian high council in alliance with four other galactic councils, under galactic codex guidelines that we the pleiadian family of light will now intervene fully into gaia's ascension.
furthermore it has been decided that we will make full contact with earth beings in eight days from this transmission on august 4, 2012 at the world olympic games in london england for the entire world to see! this will be for our introduction as well as our first efforts to work directly with you in the correction and ascension of gaia and to assist with your own ascension.

this galactic intervention has been ordered for the following reasons:
sophia-gaia's sickness has reached a critical stage and must be cleaned up at once.
the light quotient on earth is not high enough at this stage to affect a mass global ascension let alone to help move an entire planet to the next dimension.
planet terra (earth) is scheduled for a transition into the fifth dimension on 12-21-2012.
we are well pleased to see that the efforts of many beings on earth have eased her suffering however due to the imminent upcoming galactic cycle and the amount of work and healing that needs to be done for gaia cannot be completed by earth beings on schedule.
we by no means are dismayed at the good efforts made by so many for so long and are greatly honored by all the actions taken to raise the vibrations of gaia and to clear the negativity that surrounds her.
understand that we cannot wait any longer and we are only stepping in to help!
what happens on earth now affects the entire universe, so this is pretty important!
sophia-gaia-terra's immediate cleanup takes galactic priority number one.
this involves the complete removal of all archontic cabal remains.
the cabal-shadow-mind-parasites cannot be cleared by earth beings fast enough and are halting gaia's ascension as well as the infected living beings themselves!

we have a vested interest in gaia-life because we created it with you eons ago!
that is why we say we are your family!
you will not be shocked at all because we are very human just like you. we are more highly evloved spiritual beings and have advanced technology but we do not see ourselves any higher than any other, for we are all one!
we are all individuations of prime creator experiencing itself!
we are family and we love you very much as you will see.
it is know that we will get this job done together, so you can relax!

we instruct you not to spread fear as many still do. this is no false flag but an actual event that will take place and it comes only from good and for good!

many light beings of earth from our quadrant have been on gaia for several decades and have helped out tremendously. it is known however that all your incredible efforts could not get this done in time! we do not blame any living being on gaia for this. the light quotient on earth has grown to incredible levels over the last two months! be proud of the work you have done and continue as we join with you for sophia-gaia's correction.
the crime was committed by original negative archontic beings that enslaved this planet 300k years ago and all the associated bloodlines and clones which have been cleared out!

there is a time written in the stars for december 21st 2012 which cannot be stopped
it is the day that gaia becomes free and begins ascension with its people! this will be processional and will be stepped up in phases beginning on 12-21-2012

we come to work hand in hand with all light workers on gaia to aid in and complete this mission.

with our galactic orders established we now proceeded to begin phase 1 for our first major modern day contact and reunion with you to do this final work.
we had to descend so that gaia and you can ascend!

we began phase 1 two days ago!
on july 25th in the pm hours est our orbiting pleiadian fleet opened a super portal on gaia's inner atmostphere in the pm hours est.
a super portal was opened on this day out of time spoken of old in preapration for our landing on gaia! yes that's right dear ones! now is the time!

this dimensional doorway we opened is a 5d to 4d vibrational step down gate used to decloak and lower the density of our smaller ships and our light-bodies from plasma-light to 3d elemental vibration and earth resonance.

as our main ship from erra which is 4 times the size of your earth descended 300 miles down to the base of the inner atmosphere to open this portal, the plasma field around the ship interacted with earth's magnetic field in a strong manner.
there was no damage done to gaia or its beings as we calculated however many highly sensitive earth beings felt this jolt when our ship touched your inner atmosphere.
many of these higly tuned earth beings' magnetic fields were grounded out!
there were minor reports of ethereal explosions and electrical disurbances, ball lightning, obe's and translucence matter sightings. a few highly evloved and very senstive earth beings lost consciousness for nearly an hour but again no serious damages were done! most earth beings never realized anything at all happened!
this first phase had to be done to open this stargate from the higher dimension to yours to prepare for the clean up of gaia and for her ascesion and for the ascesion of her sentient life.
this phase was an intricate and advanced task for us because earth is so fragile and this is the first time in the known history that we dematerialzed our main ship and brought it this close.

this operation was completely successful!
the opening of the portal was for the merging of 5d and 4d, a bridge between these two dimensions and is now fully open!
this is the final gate where you will leterally walk from earth into your heaven!

our disclosure date has been given to you and has been imprinted into the ground and literally written in the earth at manton drove and windmill hill as our message to you for our reunion earth date: saturday august 4th, 2012!

welcome to zion, the city of your creator gods, dear ones!
on this earth day july 27, 2012 we say to you, let the games begin!

we have sought the best world-wide event; your olympics where many earth beings around the globe will get to meet us!

we know this sounds incredible to you but you will be able to confirm it from many other sources, many of these are our earth allies!

we are meeting with high level earth ambassadors (the good guys) today and we have successuflly negotiated our reunion with you to take place at the 2012 olympics!

that disclosure and our reunion with you will take place in 8 days!
as it is decided and written in the council records, so shall it be done!
all eyes will see it!

there is absolutley no need for anxiety, however know that this is a critical time for earth and it's beings as we have watched and prepared long in advance for this time!

we have said that we will not land until the cabal is removed! we told you on july 4th , independence day, that the physicla and non physcal cabal was removed and so it is!

dear ones here is the reality. you are no longer in true 3d! you are in upper 4d, bordering 5d. you have recreated 3d `the matrix' for a time longer now until this great work is done and for the purpose of transmuting all lower negative vibrations.
anything appearing to the contrary is a fictional shadow imprint remain of the archontic-le 3d matrix program still running.

our smaller ships will appear above the stadium in london as our second and most un-mistakable low-fly-over event!

we have made plans to land directly on the olympic field with your earth leaders as well and we will show you what the 4th dimension and the 5th dimension looks like!
it will be a true display of light and sound and energy! do not fear this! what did you expect?

we have been in negotiations with your leaders for some time now but there are still some of these who have been dragging their feet on our reunion with you!
we are now going to force this to happen for the highest good because there is no time left!

we have given your world leaders until august 4 to move out of the way or they will be moved out of the way between you and us!

they have interrupted our disclosure since april of this year and we have waited until this, the very last moment doing all we could to stop the destruction on earth without direct intervention!
that time has now come to its end!
in 8 days all world g20 leaders will announce us and we will appear or they will not and we will appear anyway!
those leaders opposed will be removed and will not be part of the good work we will do with you through the rest of 2012 and beyond!
the door is now open and we are coming through!

the false authority cabal trace remains still infecting the minds of many causing them to believe they are enslaved by some political-military authorioty or god will be terminated.
the federal resrve will now be completely dismantled and the un will work with us or not! they have 8 days!
all debts of the people of earth will now be forgiven and prisoners will be released on earth and re-organized accordingly!
all technology will be given to the people for instant healing of the body and for things that cannot be imagined!
dec 21 2012 is the first day of this great ascesnion and all negativty will be completely cleared from this realm!

the matrix will now be completely dissolved forever!

this will be done by both you and us working in tandem!

we thank you for your bravery and courage for coming here decades ago and later to do this great mission!

we will see you on saturday august 4th!

goodwill to all the earth and those who dwell with her.

Muller was never a skeptic

@ Poptech

Although it seems difficult to pin Muller down to one side or the other, your first two quotes don't seem to prove anything.

Quote one only states that Gore communicates his message well, even though Muller feels that the message is distorted.

The second quote is hardly any better. It simply states that most people consider global warming to be real.

Only the third quote can be construed that Muller supports the global warming theory, based on what he had read and studied. Apparently now from the research he has been involved in he does support the idea, and that it is from carbon emissions.

Also consider the fact that the Heritage Foundation used Muller's opinion to back their own anti global warming position.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/03/17/the-lefts-war-on-science-continues/

@FlyingEnergy #1.11

I wrote this earlier when addressing the same non-science you two are claiming disproves man made global warming. It should address your confusion in simple to understand terms.

Billions of years ago, when dinosaurs ruled the earth volcanoes erupted much more often, this was because the earths core was much hotter. ...

Maybe you should have done a little more research in the time you wrote this earlier and posted it now.

"BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO, when dinosaurs ruled the earth..." Really? and you say you are refuting "NON-SCIENCE"

Was that when Gay Dinosaurs were roaming free? ;-) (and I apologize if you were being facetious, as I was just now, and I missed it.)

Pigotry # 1.16

...but if you are a famous scientist, you can make a lot of money by selling your soul to the Koch Brothers.

basically that's the story of 'have your cake and eat it too."

But there is much more money in research grants from the World Gov'ts.

****

Now as I understand it, depending on which scientist you believe, the most recent Ice age ended about 15,000 years ago. I am still a little fuzzy on how they define the “End” of the age, but let’s just take their word for it at the moment.

Now let us consider, some of those same scientist say that dinosaurs roamed the Earth from about 165 million to 65 million years ago, on a super continent called Pangaea.

That is an era of 100 million years, or about 33 times longer than the first none Human Ancestor and about 6700 times longer than the time from the “End” of the last Ice Age. Or about 670,000 times longer than the industrial revolution.

Now let us consider what type of environment was necessary to sustain the dinosaur. Given the vast deposits of oil and coal the world over, one should conclude that this was a heavily vegetated environment, much like today’s jungles and swamps. And one could then conclude that temperature necessary to sustain such vegetation, as in a jungle, would be high. Let’s say 95°F on average.

So for a 100million years the Earth’s average temperature must have been close to 95°F. Therefore, if I were a scientific man, I would deduce, that the natural ambient temperature of Earth is about 95°F, but for the sake of argument, let’s call it 85°F

The current average temperature is 70°F give or take. Could one conclude then that we are not suffering from global warming, but recovering from global cooling? And that in fact we have not really seen the end of the ice age, but are, in fact still in ending stages with say 15 degrees to go.

Could one conclude then that, as we approach the true end of the ice age, i.e. Earths natural ambient temperature, the temperature will rise faster?

Do a little experiment. Place a cup of ice water on a counter, measure the room temperature (that is what they call “ambient temperature”. Now, place the thermometer in the water and check it every half hour. When you graph the results, you will get a line that steadily increases, then begins to rise faster as more of the ice melts. And it will continue to rise faster the closer it gets to ambient temperature. (something to do with the laws of thermal dynamic)

Al Gore was correct in his movie “Inconvenient Truth”, the glaciers are in retreat, but they have been for 15,000 years. And the polar caps are receding at a faster pace but that is simple physics not CO2.

Now I know I made a few assumptions here, I am no government certified scientist, but I believe it is reasonable alternative explanation of the data.

But I could be wrong. After all I am just a dumb farm boy from Kansas.

The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and length of time spent there in. Robert Reedy 1980

His conversion was more likely caused by constant bullying from BERKELEY profs. And for the record, I think CW IS happening, humans MAY be making it worse and letting the socialists control every aspect of our lives is NOT the fix.

Hey peanut... Are you a McCarthy throw back or what? You casually toss out terms like "socialist", "marxist" and "communist" when talking about OUR country. Please specify the things that make you believe that we are repeating "red scare" Joe McCarthy was so afraid of? And no, Rush limpbags, Karl Rove, Palin, etc. are not CREDIBLE resources.

The Koch brothers must be PISSED that they funded this guy.

DumbFarmBoy,

in my original post I had said millions, I just fumbled through this one to change things and mistakenly changed that to billions instead of millions. I had caught it, but ran out of time on the edit clock. Good job spotting it.

To your theory, I must add, just as I had said in my above post, high temperature was caused by greater volcanic activity. More CO2 in the atmosphere. Humans evolved in much cooler times and the earth's core has cooled much since the dinosaur's as well, hence the reason for less volcanic activity. Saying that the earth should be like it was when the dinosaur's where around is like saying mars should be green because it has an atmosphere and water. It may have supported life but geological and atmospheric events caused it to change. Geologic and atmospheric events caused the earth to change as well. We are causing it to change back because each of us drives a mini volcano around.

If we had thousands of volcanoes erupting every day I would say increasing temps would be due to natural causes, but since they are not and the only massive source of CO2 is coming from humans then I would say it is due to humans.

mj899

that essentially 2 words that show there is still some doubt to the subject.

What about the first 150 years of the 200.

What about the ocean sucking a large part of the CO2 up and then add in the plants that use it. Bet they take care of most of it

Just how much CO2 do you think that the plants and the ocean can take before it cant take no more. It would also be nice if people in South America would just stop burning the rain forest and let it do its job also.

Really NC open heart?

Aliens are coming and they sent you an e-mail letting you know? What happens when the 4th comes and they don't show? Prepare the Aliens are mad at us speach now, because that day is fast approaching.

@Flying Energy 1.23

DumbFarmBoy,

in my original post I had said millions, I just fumbled through this one to change things and mistakenly changed that to billions instead of millions. I had caught it, but ran out of time on the edit clock. Good job spotting it.

To your theory, I must add, just as I had said in my above post, high temperature was caused by greater volcanic activity. More CO2 in the atmosphere. Humans evolved in much cooler times and the earth's core has cooled much since the dinosaur's as well, hence the reason for less volcanic activity. Saying that the earth should be like it was when the dinosaur's where around is like saying mars should be green because it has an atmosphere and water. It may have supported life but geological and atmospheric events caused it to change. Geologic and atmospheric events caused the earth to change as well. We are causing it to change back because each of us drives a mini volcano around.

If we had thousands of volcanoes erupting every day I would say increasing temps would be due to natural causes, but since they are not and the only massive source of CO2 is coming from humans then I would say it is due to humans.

I wasn't sure if it was a typo or just a comment to catch attention, but I just had to rib you a little about it. I do like a person who can actually, parry back and forth with out getting personal as so many of the these small, weak minded, thin skinned, people with no self esteem who take offense at everything. And can only respond with verbal abuse. Having said that...

I do have one problem with your theory. As I said, and I was only saying what I was taught in school, (so if this is wrong then I have been misinformed.) the "Ice Age" ended 15,000 years ago. So something has been causing the Earth to warm up again, and that started 15,000 years, long before the Industrial Age.

So, it wasn't the Earth's core which we each agree is actually cooling to the laws of Thermal Dynamics. (although some scientist say it should be cooler, unless you take into account a certain amount of radioactivity)

And it wasn't CO2, because there weren't enough volcanoes or humans to cause either.

And I agree, that continental drift (geologic change) had and still has a dramatic affect on climate. My guess is that is what caused the beginning of the Ice Age, a land mass moved in such a way as to change some thermal current, e.g. the gulf stream, perhaps in combination with a volcanic eruption. (One should note that Volcanoes also cause cooling by emitting tons of dirt in the air, witness the year without a summer following the Krakatoa) The land mass moved on enough to allow a restoration of the thermal flow and "ended" the Ice Age. Maybe?

Just like pulling an Ice tray out of the freezer and placing it on the counter, it is going to start warming up. And it is going to happen no matter what we do. AS I pointed out, the natural ambient temperature of Earth, based on the evidence is about 90°F. And driving little volcanoes around isn't the cause, although it may be an accelerant it is not a cause.

What if you pull that Ice tray out in space? Or in Antarctica? Ambient temperature is related to the environment. There is no set temperature for the planet.

The haze effect is only temporary. The greenhouse gasses stay in the atmosphere far longer than the micro dust particles ejected by a volcano. So yes volcanoes cause temporary cooling but over time they cause warming. We eject over 150 times the amount of CO2 than volcanic eruptions these day's, so it's clear we are having an effect on the temperature in the atmosphere.

What if you pull that Ice tray out in space? Or in Antarctica? Ambient temperature is related to the environment. There is no set temperature for the planet.

Please, don't be asinine.

Well if there is no set temperature for the planet, why are we discussing global warming? It is what ever it is or will be. And your discussion of CO2 just became moot.

Evidently, you never took a physics or chemistry class other wise you would understand the theories and laws of Equilibrium. All things remaining constant, a balance will be achieved.

My argument is this, for a 100 million years a balance had been reached, and the suns out put, the rotation and axis tilt of the the earth, the convection currents of Earth's atmosphere and oceans.

65 million years ago something upset that balance, a meteor, comet, Volcanoes, take your pick. Killed the dinosaurs. I have never seen any solid explanation of events from then until 20,000 years ago and the time line picks up again. (I don't think the scientists have a clue as to what happened in the between times) I have seen some articles on the cycle of ice ages over the last 100,000 years, which is only about 1/1000 the time of the dinosaur.

The haze effect is only temporary. The greenhouse gasses stay in the atmosphere far longer than the micro dust particles ejected by a volcano. So yes volcanoes cause temporary cooling but over time they cause warming.

And I said: My guess is that is what caused the beginning of the Ice Age, a land mass moved in such a way as to change some thermal current, e.g. the gulf stream, and let's include Jet Streams, perhaps in combination with a volcanic eruption. Yes I understand volcanic gases may lead to warming. however, you should know that many scientist will also tell you the the sulfur, especially Sulfur Dioxide(I think) will cause cooling, and some environmentalist think we should administer it to the atmosphere to compensate for warming(evidently they forgot about the acid rain from the '70s.)

Unless I am missing something, you are still basing global warming on CO2. correct? Global Warming started 15,000 years ago. Not as many volcanoes as according to you and not human either.

My proof: According to scientist, there were glaciers (You know Ice sheets hundreds or thousands of feet thick) in Kansas. (The north east region of Kansas is known as a glaciated region), but let's say for the sake of argument they only made it as far south as NY and the great lakes. Where are they now? back up beyond the Arctic and Antarctic Circles. Something is melting the ice, and it is called warmth, or some call it the big heat tab in the sky, others call it the sun.

We eject over 150 times the amount of CO2 than volcanic eruptions these day's, so it's clear we are having an effect on the temperature in the atmosphere.

And I said: ..volcanoes around isn't the cause, although it may be an accelerant, it is not a cause.

Stick to the argument. WHAT CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING STARTING 15,000 YEARS AGO?

Something else for you dope smokin, brain dead, liberals to cogitate upon. In 1984, my freshman year in Engineering, I do recall reading an article in a scientific journal, (I found as part of doing research for another topic). The article was titled, "The Concerns for The Artificial Acceleration of Global Warming do to Rising CO2 Levels". (Also note, T-shirts of the day read "If I flunk out of engineering, I can go into Business" and business students replied with "If I flunk out of Business, I can go into Journalism"

So, if I understand the logic correctly, most journalism majors are less smart the business majors. Which definitely sounds logical to me. Now given the limited intelligence of the average journalist or liberal for that matter, the above headline it too complicated and difficult to pronounce, it contains some fairly large words after all. My theory is this. They abbreviated it to read, "Global Warming do to Rising CO2 Levels"

So, until someone can prove to me that the natural ambient temperature, that is, the temperature that the Earth is balance with the sun given our distance from the sun, rotational effects and axis declination, is the current avg 70°F, then I am going with my theory that it is apprx 90°F and it is going to get a lot hotter,- CO2 or not.

FarmBoy.... In engineering WE learned that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction, correct? In addition, the concept of "nothing is free" (kinetic energy turns to heat energy due to friction, lift something up and you convert kinetic energy into potential energy, etc...)

ACTION 1: Cut down ENTIRE rainforests and emit increasing amounts CO2 into atmosphere in a short (geologically speaking) period-200 years thereby overwhelming the natural CO2 sinks.
ACTION 2: Oceans absorb more CO2 due to deforestation and therefore become more acidic (see coral bleaching). Entire ice cover in Greenland melts in 4 DAYS. Antarctic ice sheets splitting off (See Ross Ice Shelf).

A perfect analogy of the potential bad effects of high GHG concentrations is the use of the ocean as a dump for toxic industrial materials during the first half of last century (aka dilution is the solution). What we have found is that tuna and other top tier predators have such high concentrations of mercury, PCBs and a variety of dioxins that pregnant women should not eat it. What if we are wrong about climate change and that we are in fact causing it? What then? Do we start living underground/water?

WHAT CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING STARTING 15,000 YEARS AGO?

Your right about equilibrium (entropy) in that respect. However the earth is not a closed system so entropy is hard to imply with respect to the earth. The earth is a certain distance from the sun, and it's atmosphere allows us to enjoy a relatively mild climate. The key word here is atmosphere. Some event, I think an asteroid, but we will say some event, caused the earth to rapidly cool. It was obviously a natural cause yet the earth recovered at some point from this ice age, I suppose 15,000 years ago. The problem is that the earth warmed rather slowly. About 1 degree every century, now we are on track to see 4 degrees or more in a century.

If we continue to assume that some abnormal yet natural force caused the ice age, how can we believe that some abnormal force is not causing the rapid change in earths temperature? If atmosphere plays a large part in our relatively mild environment and CO2 causes heat to become trapped in the atmosphere, how can we say that we are not that outside force causing the rapid environmental change?

Here is something to consider. CO2 levels in 1995 ~360 ppm and today they are ~390 ppm. How in the world can all global warming since 1995 be pinned on CO2 emissions? Especially when looking at a trace gas increase of about 30 ppm. I went outside yesterday with an Infrared thermometer and measured the asphalt pavement surface temperature @ 5:00pm when the air temperature was 100ºF in the shade. The asphalt pavement measured 148ºF and the adjacent concrete parking lot measured 127ºF. Considering 94% of all roads in the U.S. are asphalt then we are significantly increasing air temperatures across the U.S. by using asphalt instead of concrete. I think there are many factors involved in warming trends not just one gas or collection of greenhouse gases. What about black body solids/semisolids with high surface area coverage? How about we look at all factors not just one?

G.C. Your reasoning is so wrong-headed that I simply have to laugh at your stupidity... HaHaHaHa.

notliborcon or I'll just call you Con for short. The polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) in asphalt binders absorb tons of infrared radiation just like your precious CO2. Why? Double covalent bonding - pi bonds. Each benzene ring in PAH's have 3 double bonds compared to 2 in a single molecule of CO2. How many benzene rings are in asphalt PAH's? Dozens! There is more infrared heat trapping capacity in a mole of asphalt than a mole of carbon dioxide. CO2 is beneficial in that it abosrbs infrared radiation before it reaches the ground. Who's stupid now?

I actually think that GC has a point. We call that point Heat Islands. Buildings and asphalt hold in heat which in turn increases local temps. Im sure at some point that could lead to higher over all temps around the globe.

Thank you Mr. Chemistry. If you read the study by Dr. Muller or, as I did, listened to him speak about his methodology and results then you would understand that they investigated the effects of "concrete jungles" and found them to be negligible.

I did not study chemistry so i cannot rebutt your assertions on pi bonding nor on the capability of these bonds to capture and store IR radiation but I can and will say that at night these materials re-radiate the heat in an attempt to achieve equilibrium. This heat then gets trapped by the GHG in the atmosphere (CO2, methane, water vapor, etc.) aka the greenhouse effect. The amount of energy from the sun doesn't drastically change in any given day so it does not matter whether concrete, sand, dirt, asphalt, your car's interior, roofs, etc. absorb the heat (from IR, UV or VS light) because this trapped heat energy cannot escape the atmosphere and thus temps rise... albeit at a glacial pace (no pun intended) but none the less.

CONT'D ....

There is an argument that can be made concerning the reflective capabilities of roofing and paving materials. We already know that ice sheets and clouds play a large and important role in reflecting the sun's energy (VL spectrum and some IR) away from earth so why could we not utilize these concepts in the future construction of roads and buildings?

I am guessing he checked his wallet and found it was more profitable to be receiving Gov't grants, in stead of fighting them.

Consider this, this guy is a flip flopper, he's on one side of the issue, he's on the other, he's on the East Bank, he's on the West Bank. And How do liberals normally treat a flip flopper? So...

Why is it OK for this coward to cave to liberal pressure and change his mind, but it is not OK for Mitt, to wake from his liberal fog that is Massof2shaets (did I spell that correctly)? And I thought liberals were supposed to respect both sides of an argument and have open minds, oops, your Freudian slip is showing.

Could reverse that question as well - why is not OK for this guy to change his mind, but OK for Romney to change his mind. Have to admit though, it's encouraging to see that Conservatives can sort of defend the right of someone to change their mind. I don't see that very often.

What to do? For starters, face up to the probable consequences of long term warming and face up to the fact that solutions won't be painless for anybody.

Give me a path to solution, jack. No bull@!$%# dodge hiding behind a platform!

What to do?

Disgusted, there are thousands of smart people that have been working for years on "what to do." Open your eyes. We know what to do, for the most part, and most of the technology is available or soon will be. All we have to have is the will, and to sideline the knee-jerk, partisan deniers with a laugh.

Yes, Leatherneck, we will all die in 5 billion years, which is obviously meaningless to how we choose to live today.

And earthquakes do not move the axis enough to hardly detect, let alone change the climate.

Now, do you have something relevant?

Oh my! Thanks Leatherneck.

Whenever I read about real Science -- I always come back to the Newsvine to listen to people like you, who are clearly the experts in Physics and Climatology, who have obviously spent years and careers studying this.

Thanks for straightening everyone out!!

Now all we need is ROY WILSON to come in, and take a moment away from being a Foremost Expert on Politics and Government, to put his Physics and Climatology hat on, and help us out with HIS endless expertise and knowledge!!!

jock59801: Really earth quakes cant change the earth axis or rotation. I see you changed your sentence to what it is now.

http://www.voanews.com/content/japans-earthquake-alters-coast-line-changes-earths-axis-117857349/167173.html

Fact is JOCK how do you know this. More sun on a area= more heat hitting that area. More heat= Higher temps does it not. So even a slight change in the rotation or axis or both can have affects on the weather. Affects your so called scientist have failed to even bother to look into. Ever hear of the domino effect?

Whenever I read about real Science -- I always come back to the Newsvine to listen to people like you, who are clearly the experts in Physics and Climatology, who have obviously spent years and careers studying this.

Well got a very good lol on that.

Sun is gradually becoming more luminous (about 10% every 1 billion years), and its surface temperature is slowly rising. The Sun used to be fainter in the past, which is possibly the reason life on Earth has only existed for about 1 billion years on land. The increase in solar temperatures is such that in about another billion years the surface of the Earth will likely become too hot for liquid water to exist, ending all terrestrial life.

What about previous warming periods of equal or worse severity? I am of the belief that the private market will find a profitable alternative to carbon based fuels before this so called crisis becomes as horrible as some doomsayers are predicted. Additionally, this scientist also states that we aren't going to see the hurricane apocalypse as predicted by Al Gore, so I wouldn't exactly take a victory lap around this article if I were a climate change whistleblower.

Thanks to all of you that reinforced my earlier statement. I'm LOL and pitying you poor sods all at the same time.

Leatherneck, my sentence stands as I first wrote it. I am well aware that the biggest earthquakes an result in a barely detectable and obviously insignificant axis shifts. 8 cm is, essentally, nothing.

Yes, I have read what the scientists have to say who have spent years studying this, and they are increasingly confident that AGW is real and serious, and they just have to shake their heads in disbelief at the deniers who keep spewing out the same anti-science nonsense.

The changes in solar output you are referring to occur over many millions of years and are irrelevant to the types of climate change we are discussing.

jock59801:I have read what the scientists have to say who have spent years studying this, and they are increasingly confident that AGW is real and serious.

Really NAME THEM...

Leatherneck: Fact is JOCK how do you know this. More sun on a area= more heat hitting that area. More heat= Higher temps does it not

No, L, that is NOT what it means. So many other factors affect surface temperature! One simple example for you. Mt Rainier has an elevation of 14,410 feet. While a lot of the Seattle area is under cloud cover, half of the mountain is above the clouds most of the time. It is constantly being hit by the sun. Constantly. Yet, it is always colder than hell up there...

So, there is one quick example where your "whatever logic" (above) doesn't work AT ALL. And there are MANY MANY more.

Again, I defer to my earlier sarcastic comment about you and your uneducated approach to Science and Climatology. Stick to watching episodes of South Park and forget about the rest of this stuff that is way over your head. Mmmmkay?

If you analyze nothing more than carbon emissions and temperatures within the last 50 years, then it would appear that humans are the cause for global warming. But if you take into consideration all of the world's climate change patterns, and the changes in the sun, etc. then humans being the cause of the latest climate changes is the height of arrogance. Contributing factor, yes. Cause, no.

Leatherneck: regardless of the rate of spin, the earth will receive the same amount of sunlight. The sun doesn't turn off. A slower rotation indeed means that areas receive longer sunlight, but they also receive an equally proportionate increase in the length of darkness.

By the way, the 2004 Indonesian quake actually sped up the rotation of the Earth.

That you fail to grasp these concepts pretty much destroys anything else you might have to say on the subject of global climate change.

What to do?

Live smaller. I have been in houses that are enormous and serve no purpose other than to stroke somebody's ego.

Ever been in a 13,000 sq foot house for a family of 4?

That is an extreme but all of us need to learn to downsize. When you down size you pick what you own a little more carefully. You get less crap.

I have seen too many 2,000+ square foot homes occupied by couples. Rooms overflowing with junk.

Last Friday I visited a retired couple. 3 bedrooms upstairs, master downstairs, office, family room, living room, large kitchen and the garage was so full of crap they couldn't park a car. All of the bedrooms were overflowing except the Master. I don't even know how they got to the desk in the office. Nice people but WHY?

We don't need all that crap.

Who needs scientists when you got bloggers with all the answers. Bloggers are obviously better qualified.

/sarc

Guess Koch brothers wasted their money. They'll have to go buy themselves a new scientist to prove their old scientist wrong.

Leatherneck918

JackBNimble1: What you fail to realize, lets say Global climate change is MAN MADE sorry got to LOL about that but lets say it is.

Wow! Three million sperm and you had to be the one that came out!

Why don't you take a good look around you one day and see for yourself. The U.S. has a drought over 56% of the country. There is a glacier the size of Manhattan that just broke away from Greenland and is heading into the ocean. Not to mention that Greenland is warming at a alarming rate. In Antarctica, there are ice packs the size of New Jersey that is going to brake away and go into the ocean as well. With all this, it will make the oceans rise and all the islands that are just a few feet above water will be asking for snorkels pretty soon.

Take a look at Glacier National park. Nice place execpt for one thing, NO GLACIERS! Thats because most of them are all gone. In a few years were going to have to rename it to No Glacier National park.

Just how many sticks of dynamite will it take before your head clears?

Warmachine2012- Wow! Three million sperm and you had to be the one that came out!

You sure use that one a lot.

When you are talking about CO2 emissions. China and the US together put out over 40% of the world wide total. China does emit more than we do, however on a per person basis, we American individuals put out close to 3 times as much as individual Chinese. On a per person basis, Canada, Russia and Australia are fairly heavy users, but considerably less than us and as countries, they don't put out 10% of what we do.

No doubt that China has become a big contributer, mainly from the high number of coal fired power plants they have been building at an enormously fast rate. However, China is also building far more wind, solar and hydrodynamic plants than we are too. China is even building some next generation nuclear too. The point is that we are big contributors and we aren't really doing many of the right things to reverse that. All 27 member countries of the EU together don't produce as much as we do in total or on a per person basis.

No doubt, everybody needs to look at reducing emissions, but arguably, we in the US actually have more opportunity for reduction. If we alone, reduced our emissions by about 20% we would just about stop the growth of CO2 emissions. If we went 30%, we would reverse the trends and still be among the largest per person users.

The US uses about 20% of all energy produced world wide. On a per person basis we far exceed anyone else. More than twice as much as all of the EU and close to 5 times as much as the Chinese.

When you look at these numbers, although we aren't the sole source of the problems, we definitely play a huge role and by all logic, we should be leading the way. The sad thing is the only things we have been doing to reduce emissions and energy consumption has been exporting industry, mostly to China. But regardless of those reductions, our individual consumption has risen by more than enough to cancel out and reductions and still be on the increase.

It is a world wide problem and everybody does need to play, but by all rights, we should be playing a large role. But instead we're in denial and demanding the rest of the world go first before we even think about it. The fact is that a lot of the rest of the world has been at least working on it. It's just that the amount of impact they can achieve is relatively small in the big picture.

The thing is that it doesn't necessarily need to be painful. we can make a lot of gains just by improving efficiencies. Becoming more efficient saves money too. However, most of us won't do it unless we have to. People want to start a revolution over things like abandoning incandescent light bulbs! They last longer, work better and use far less energy. The save a lot in the long run. LED lighting will be a quantum leap above that. Things like improving your insulation, better doors and windows, etc. have energy savings payback over time and the efficiency gains are immediate. These are just simple things that we all can do. And there are plenty more. But if we as individuals don't take the initiative, how do we go about making any progress? The first thing we need to do is admit there is a problem, but clearly, we are still far from step one. We can do this, if we want to.

I have seen too many 2,000+ square foot homes occupied by couples. Rooms overflowing with junk.

Seriously! Ever check out the garages? If not for a huge invasion of privacy, thought it'd be a cool art project to snap photos of garages piled so high with crap and put them all into a coffee table book, college assignment, or something. What the heck is in all those boxes, anyway? And it's not just a few houses anymore, but many! Gives me the creeps to think of all the bugs and mice....

Disgusted,

Forget the Kyoto treaty or anything similar. China and other up 'n coming countries won't conform. The good 'ol USA will bow and fold in the hopes others follow suit. BS.

Of course, if China won't do the right thing, why should we?

It's like what we heard from Republicans who supported the Iraq and Afghan wars (until Obama became president, then they opposed it) saying "They don't fight fair, so why should we?"

The answer to both is the same; Because that's what makes us a great nation, we do the right thing, even if all the other countries don't want to play nice. It's what gives us the moral high ground. How can we complain about the pollution produced from China or Mexico if we don't do something about how we pollute? Just like saying how can we criticize our enemies for not following the rules of war if we torture POW's?

Look, you can deny global climate change and man's involvement all you want, that's not going to make it go away though (I wish it were that simple, to just wish it away.)

You have no proof to substantiate your claims that it's not real, I hope you don't have kids because taking a gamble on their lives and their children's lives seems awfully selfish to me. The scientific community is nearly unanimous on this topic and the dissenters are usually well paid for their dissent. I will not take that gamble on my daughter's future.

Leatherneck: Even if an earthquake changed the speed of rotation of the Earth by a small amount, that would not change the amount of sunlight striking a given area. While it would receive more sunlight for half the rotation, if the speed was decreased, it would also be in darkness for an equally changed amount of time. Net sunlight received per rotation would be unchanged.

skrekk

Warmachine2012- Wow! Three million sperm and you had to be the one that came out!

You sure use that one a lot.

Can't help it if it's true!

Wrong. CO2 has been rising rapidly since the early industrial age. More rapidly than at any other time we've been able to find in history.

Granted, we are on the back-end of coming out of an Ice Age from about 110,000 years ago, but we are adding CO2 at unprecedented rates and it is causing greater warming than would have naturally occurred.

1POV -- CO2 has been part of our atmosphere for billions of years, since the beginning. It's fluctuation is one of many drivers of climate change, and always has been, We have known this for over 100 years. Many lines of evidence continue to confirm it.

Glacier layers? You mean the ones we used to take core samples of to see ancient history?

Yeah... well those all melted a few years ago.

Methane gas perhaps? There is an article today about the southern ocean gyres trapping carbon at the equivalency of one Japan's rate of emissions per year. Once that carbon is in the ocean I suppose pressure has something to do with its escape.

Assuming that the world temperatures increase and the polar ice melts, that would be more water in the oceans meaning more water pressure, meaning a limiting of the escape of methane from ocean deposits. On the other side of the coin, an ice age would lock up liquid water, lowering the ocean levels, creating less pressure on the oceanic methane deposits, which once released would enter the atmosphere to cause it to warm again thus limiting ice ages in length. So the cycle of ice ages may have more than one cause.

I would think however that as land erodes and the sediments enter into the oceans to provide nutrients to the plankton, which then die and fall to the ocean bottom, this would put more carbon on the ocean bottom and out of the atmosphere than any ocean gyres in the south seas, but this ocean gyre idea is just new.

Personally my vote for the end of the world as far as humans go will come in the form of lung and heart disorders, asthma and emphysema to name a couple, before excessive heat dries up our last drop of cooling sweat. Those atmospheric particulates would come in the form of dust and ash as well as fuel emissions. That's just an opinion of mine, and would be based on air currents rather than water currents, as there might not be adequate rainfall to remove dust from the atmosphere in time to prevent lung damage in children especially.

C'mon, dickweed!

Give us a solution, not a complaint.

Wow DC! You sound like Mitt and his Magic Underwear -- shrieking at everyone else about problems and demanding THEY come up with a solution, but you have ZILCH of your own!

Are you part of Mitt's speech-writing staff?

DC, you are a real piece of work. I don't know what world you've been living in, pal, but for at least the last decade there have been thousands of articles written on what can be done to slow the effects of GW. Btw, if you've got any other childish names you want to throw my way please do. They reflect much more on you than me.

Still waiting for a solution...

Disgusted -

That is the problem with whiners. You just keep saying "still waiting for..." as if you expect work to be done for you. If you actually wanted to know something, you would go find it. But even though we have given you pointers to many solutions, you can only come back with your inane parroting as if it some how gives you the excuse to be ignorant and selfish.

DisgustedConservative

Still waiting for a solution...

.......Okay, keep your mouth closed.

But I wonder if your change in opinion is not being affected by the desire for a paycheck?

Ka-ching!

Keep up the propaganda though.

Wow! Sounds like you're projecting-- Just because your professional principles may be easily bought, don't assume others are as quick to sell out. Sheesh!

Ron, learn some science please.

He'd have to put down his BuyBull, first, and denounce his BuyBull-Home-Schooling past.

Not gonna happen!

Ron: "But I wonder if your change in opinion is not being affected by the desire for a paycheck?"

If you had read the article, you would know that his study was funded by conservative deniers who were hoping for the opposite conclusion.

Question stands. What to do?

sam, your garden is not the globe, and people are already starving because crops in the tropics do NOT like it warmer.

@(clueless)DisgustedConservative: You keep yammering about what to do? Other than magazines like "The Outdoorsman", "NRA Today", or any book by Glenn Beck have you ever taken the time to read any of the following articles?

IN DEPTH: BIG PICTURE SOLUTIONS TO GLOBAL WARMING

• Increasing
  Public Understanding of Climate Risks and Choices
• AB
  32: California Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006
• Western
  Climate Initiative
• Existing
  Cap-and-Trade Programs to Cut Global Warming Emissions
  

OUR ANALYSIS OF BIG PICTURE SOLUTIONS TO GLOBAL WARMING

• Allowance
  Allocations in the 2009 Senate and House Climate & Energy Bills
• The
  Economic Impact of AB 32 on Localities: A Look at Chula Vista
• The
  Economic Impact of AB 32 on California Small Business
• UCS
  Analysis and Recommendations for Electric Utility Allowance Allocations Under
  Climate Legislation
• Climate
  2030: A National Blueprint for a Clean Energy Economy (2009)
• Growing
  Crops in a Changing Climate (2008)

GLOBAL WARMING SOLUTIONS POLICY

Regional
Greenhouse Gas Initiative

• The
  Role of the Union of Concerned Scientists in International Climate Meetings
• Key
  Elements of Effective Climate Policy
• Senate
  Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee Climate Change Assessments
• American
  Clean Energy and Security Act
• Policy
  Solutions from Climate 2030 Blueprint
• Cutting
  Global Warming Pollution in Oregon
• Cap
  and Invest: How a Cap-and-Trade Program Can Reduce Energy Costs, Create Jobs,
  and Improve Energy Security
• Global
  Warming Compliance Offsets and Air Quality in California
• Economic
  Facts Support United States Action to Curb Global Warming
• Sound
  Climate Legislation Must Respond to Emerging Science
• We
  Need a Well-Designed Cap-and-Trade Program to Fight Global Warming
• How
  to Solve Our Energy Crisis and Global Warming
• Massachusetts
  Global Warming Solutions Act
• Pennsylvania
  Global Warming Legislation
• Federal
  Climate Research, Adaptation and Oceans Bill
  

GLOBAL WARMING SOLUTIONS CAMPAIGNS

• Economists
  Letter on the California Cap-and-Trade Program
• California's
  Proposition 23 - The Dirty Energy Proposition
• The
  Most Expensive Thing We Can Do is Nothing: An Open Letter on Clean Energy and
  Global Warming from Economists
• Texas
  Oil Company Backs Ballot Measure to Block California’s Clean Energy Policies
  
• U.S.
  Scientists and Economists' Call to Action
• Indiana
  Scientists and Economists' Call for Action
• Pennsylvania
  Scientists and Economists' Call for Action
• National
  Call to Action on Global Warming
• Why
  the Time for U.S. Leadership is Now!
• U.S.
  Business Leaders’ Call for Strong, Science-Based Global Warming Legislation
  

I don't suppose so. Multi-syllabic words are probably a bit too much for you to handle.

"we are adding CO2 at unprecedented rates"

"we exhale CO2 for god sakes."

"Question stands. What to do?"

everyone hold your breath !!!!!!!!

The CO2 we exhale does not apprecialbly affect climate change, because that carbon came out of the air in the first place and is just being recycled.

And you realize the CO2 you're talking about came out of former plants/animals that were recycling too. (Coal/Oil/forest fires/etc). For a science guy, you're long on hot air and pretty short on science.

And the solutions you propose will have a significant impact on GDP in the west (developing countries don't have to worry about it) - which means you and yours are very poor after implementation. But you won't figure that out until after it's waaaaay too late - and there will be no turning back.

Typical short sited political hack - not concerned at all about unintended consequences, and so in love with yourself that you can't question where your "opinion" might go wrong. And you have to post 25% of the messages in any discussion - people like you make me want to puke - and no - I don't feel better.

DC and Sam, yeah...just go for it! What to do? Really?

Its man made. Burning nicely for forty years now. No one has attempted to cap it. There is another one just above the Margellus bubble in PA waiting to be made where you know-it-alls insist on fracking your asses off for a profit. Buy up all those mineral rights and then take a long look down...and explain this before you take your next flying leap.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2179622/The-Door-Hell-Giant-hole-Karakum-Desert-40-YEARS.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

@Ryan Quinn: Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. Why don't you state the obvious: YOU simply don'e understand what causes changes in weather.

Ryan, we know a great deal about how the climate system works and we are learning more all the time. ANd yes, climate scientists are well aware of past climate changes, the study of which has helped them learn more about how the system works.

Ryan, the so-called Medieval Warming Period is very well understood. And most of what we know about it comes from the very people who are most convinced of the reality of anthropogenic global warming.

You sound like a guy telling medical doctors: "Hey, have you heard about blood-letting?"

John, you sound about as mindless as your cousin Ted. If our forefathers had shared your outloook on life the good news is that you would have never existed. Damn.

Consensus does not make fact, but sometimes it's a pretty good clue. Especially when evidence contunues to support it.

But when virtually all the scientists in the world have the opinion that something is a fact, it pays to listen to them.

DC, thousands of people are working on solutions and have been for decades. They are analyzing the best mix of energy portfolios to make the most efficient, fair, and environmentally sound energy policy. Others are working on new technologies, and others are working on ways to encourage international cooperation. People are devoting their careers to this because they no it is important.

And all you can manage in your ignorance of all this is to whine, goad, and insult.

Blah, blah, blah. If I wanted to hear exfoliating crap from the media I'd tune in to MSNBC.

GIVE US A PATH TO SOLUTION FOR THE PROBLEM!

Otherwise, get the hell out of my way.

Your tirade doesn't even make sense. There are many proposed solutions. But if your only goal is to justify your selfishness, why do you care what the solutions are or even if they exist?

Allright Disgusted, ask and you shall recieve. The heating of the planet will be uncomfortable but tolerable for life to exist for quite some time. Food to sustain that life will require far more thought. Heat tolerant food needs to be developed now in order to perfect it and produce it in sufficient quantities to feed a population that is starving today. The very first thing you MUST do is control population growth world wide. Given that the republican and religous agendas both rely on population growth it would seem your future is already predetermined to extinction. That does not need be the outcome if we learn to change our mindset and think for a change. If we do what we can we will at least mitigate the damage and extend the timeline for adaptation to new normals.

Hay, DisgustingConservative.

Google is your friend. Do your own research, and implement what you can.

Be sure to not tell us what you find.

Here is the plan. All nations with nuclear weapons will form an alliance and wipe out the rest of the world with conventional weapons and without fear of nuclear retaliation. After the population has been reduced there will be many fewer CO2 producers, more food and water for all, large amounts of land returned to nature, climate change will be averted, and we survivors can all do as we like.

People, DisgustingConservative is obviously trolling, best to ignore him.

anopinionatedsob;

There will be population control in the African Continent and the Middle east by the Muslims. Those are the areas of least abundance for growing crops and the most warfare today. The Muslims are slowing advancing on the Christians in the south of Africa and in Europe. The Ivory coast has gone Muslim from the north, Nigeria is fighting for the oil in the south with their Muslim brothers in the north, etc, etc, etc.
Muslims are slowly taking these countries by attrition through stacking the votes with new Muslims from the north and then warfare when the vote is not agreed to by the Christians.

The West, China and India are ready to take them all out.

Just look at a map to see where the Muslim countries are today and where the nukes are in relationship
to those nations that either do not have nukes or are infighting amongst themselves.

Start in Malaysia and work west. You basically see a hop scotch of countries with their enemies on both sides all the way across to Portugal.

India and China have over 50% of the Earth's population and are fighting the Muslim faith, while Europe and Africa losing out to the Muslim faith, both are in decline and America is fast becoming a second rate country with only the nuclear arsenal protecting it.

It won't be long.

Rather a stupid thing to say, don't you think, an hour after Jack has given you a long list of places to find solutions. Apparently, you don't want there to be solutions, becuase then you would have to get off your whining butt and do something.

Choices? Believe humans are responsible for global warming. Or don't. Neither will matter when all Greenland's ice cap melts and the cities on are coasts are underwater.

DisgustedConservative, I have the solution, only it is a solution that you will not want to hear. As long as our population continues to climb, any attempt to control our pollution and CO2 emissions will only delay the destruction of our ecosystem. The ONLY real solution is to reduce our world population by at least half. Maybe more, but I don't have any data to base that on.

We are not going to do that willingly--no nation will voluntarily reduce their population by half, so what is going to happen is that nature's checks and balances will do it for us. Things like farm land turning to desert, food and water shortages, disease, world war. Our population is going to crash. I just hope we don't become extinct.

Thanks, alan. A poignant answer to my question. I'm convinced that some time a mass plague will envelope the human race and reduce our numbers at some point. Nature's answer to overpopulation, I guess.

After which our numbers will again grow. The question remains.

Not an answer I don't want to hear, only nature in progress.

If you yourself cannot offer ANY kind of suggestion--if all you can do is whine - then maybe you should remove yourself from the conversation- and let grown ups converse. (allow me to explain -Converse--to talk informally with another or others; exchange views, opinions, etc.)

Shove it up your ass, you moron. Look at all the scientists being paid indirectly by oil and coal companies. Denying GW is making billions for corporations. That's where the real money is today.

Or the others being given govt grants only if they agree with the conclusion that liberal academia want. Financial Selection works both ways. The problem is that we dont have any scientists with public crediblity. No "Einsteins" who can talk convincingly on may subjects. Right now the msg is coming from unknown, unproven scientists, liberals wanting to tell us how to live and corporations trying to save their profits. Not a very trustworthy group.

Yes. The irony is palpable.

"farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt !! "

A solar storm is large and packs a lot of energy, but most of it is deflected by the magnetic envelop around the earth and has very little to do with warming of any sort, the type of radiation is wrong it's not heat and it's mostly charged particles.

It's really obvious that most posters on here are science illiterate to an astonishing degree. Comments like CO2 is normal because we breathe it out and good for plants simply don't understand the carbon cycle. If you think CO 2 is a harmless gas, put a plastic bag over your head for a couple of minutes and see what happens....actually don't...you will begin to suffocate. There's nothing wrong with CO2 when it is in balance. That environmental balance is maintained by several mechanisms like the excess cCO2 being dissolved into the ocean then and then stored in the sea bed in several ways.

The point is that so much CO2 has been produced in an ever increasing amount by man's activities that the environmental balancing mechanisms simply are starting to break down in a serious way and the result is impending large scale global warming.

It's likely that our generations won't see the full effects of what's coming but your grand children and their children certainly will and it will be devastating in many respects. If you don't care about that, well, that's your choice to remain willfully ignorant, but some of us have a conscience about the future and are already trying to find ways to mitigate the changes and ameliorate the damages coming. Moving to other energy sources other than carbon based ones is already in the works. People who claim that nothing should be done because China, Korea or other upcoming nations won't do anything are wrong and just trying to shut down the conversation with cynical doom talk.

The science is clear to anyone who has actually bothered to study it , scientist or not, and to do nothing is simply slow suicide and not an option. It's important to remember that the climate change deniers are a tiny but vocal minority and tuning out their distractions would be a good idea for the time being.

If ppl so choose to survive! As far as I am concerned, once I am dead, buried, and forgotten... the world and all it's inhabitants will be on their own. I won't have anything to worry about after that.