I live in AZ and it's nice to see the Teabaggers on the losing end of yet another decision here. I hope it holds.

it's a crying shame to see reason and moderates actually standing up for someone's freedoms. What's going on here? We don't have a right to restrict the teabaggers right to boss us.

I live in AZ and it's nice to see the Teabaggers on the losing end of yet another decision here.

LOL! Gov. Jan Brewer must be steaming. Things haven't been going too well for her since she waved that boney finger in the President's face. Serves the old hag right.

Smokie,

The termination of a pregnancy is a medical decision to be made between a woman and her physician. Has virutally nothing to do with killing. One can only kill that which has already been born.

If you want to discuss this issue with me, please stick to fact, not emotional rhetoric.

Abortion is about killing babies and that is nothing to celebrate.

do yourself a favor and ask any woman that has had to make that awful decision and i'm sure she'll tell you that it wasn't celebrated. Also, i'm sure it doesn't bother you when our military kills innocent civilians in foreign countries such as Iraq. Collateral damage is the term that I think is used.

tonybeeerm

LOL! Gov. Jan Brewer must be steaming. Things haven't been going too well for her since she waved that boney finger in the President's face. Serves the old hag right.

Well the good news is, she can't run again. Now if we can get rid of Trent Franks (AKA Michelle Bachmann's lapdog) we might make some real progress in AZ. Not everyone that lives here is crazy... honest. LOL

Indeed DOC. Undoing the insanity from the right will be an uphill battle. I don't know what the GOP is thinking but I seem to be flashing back to the late 60s early 70s.

And then that lunatic you were debating earlier Mr. Dennis:. Good lord. I was at work so I could not comment.

Not everyone that lives here is crazy... honest. LOL

What i've seen of Arizona, and it's not much, I love it. I was married in Sedona and adored the place. We're thinking seriously about retiring there. Much saner and better than Florida, which sucks imo.

@tonybeeerm

An equally good point to ponder is why all of the reich wing nuts like to wave the Bible and act holier-than-thou but are unwilling to allow somoen to use their own conscience, a gift from God, and then to experience the consequences of their actions, for better or worse. If one truly had faith in God, I suggest they would be a bit more willing to let him handle things rather than acting like the Taliban. Before the Reformation, the attitude, spoke, of the Catholic clergy was that "the word of God goes from God to me to you. If you want to know what God thinks, you come to me. Only me." Clearly the rich has learned nothing from history. This was the attitude that drove people from the Vatican en masse.

Tomorrow Rep. Mike Kelly, Republican from Pennsylvania, will compare this decision to terrorist attacks on this country and the bombing of Pearl Harbor - like he did today regarding contraception.

Smokie- do you take antibiotics? If so you are killing life. It is all semantics. It is a woman's right and no one in the government or the church should have a bit of control over that.

The republicans are digging their own grave doing this. The deciders of elections are not conservatives / liberals but moderate swing voters. Moderates tend to be pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. You keep going around trying to outlaw abortions / gay-marriage eventually you'll piss off enough moderates that next election you and your entire entourage is voted out.

So, you think the termination of life is a good thing

Which part of "legal" do you not understand?

The Supreme Court ruled that restricting abortion is unconstitutional. If you don't like our system of government, get out.

Derek--

"Arizona = California in levels of stupid. The ACLU is a horrible organization. But every now and then, they get something right."

Please tell me how the ACLU is a horrible organization?

Juanita - Yes, just ignore the arguments presented in the article that the law as written for Arizona gives little to no opportunity for a medical professional to help a woman make an appropriate decision based on personal and/or fetal health issues. Great plan. Save the life even if you aren't actually saving the life right? Of course you don't believe that health care should be a constitutionally protected right either so why am I surprised? Choice is what you do with your body. If the fetus can't survive without the mother's body then the mother is still making a choice for her body and while I personally would hope that a woman wouldn't abort without medical reasons I also know that I'm not likely to understand another person's circumstances completely either. For that matter, with as many poor and hungry as we have in this country, giving birth to a baby grants no guarantee of health and safety for said baby (After all that baby shouldn't be fundamentally granted health care - right? right? No, really - right?)

Anyone who is against abortion should be willing to pay (via taxes) for pre and post natal care, and all costs associated with raising that child (by the birth mother or adoption) til it's 18. Otherwise you're a f$%^ing hypocrite.

No one is for abortion except someone that is in trouble. Conservative have affairs and get those ladies and girls pregnant, all the time. You can bet they make those girls get an abortion. Bob Bare comes to mind. Man I remember him going after Bill Clinton having sex outside of marriage. What a good Christen Bob was. But when his back was up against it, He chose abortion to keep his ass out of trouble. There are many more like good old Bob Bare. But they are the same ones that do not want anyone else to use abortion. They are also the same ones that do not want to help these women raise these unwanted children. So less see. Demand these women have these unwanted children, then don't help them when they need it. Let these unwanted children starve to death. That is a better way, Right. So soon the only abortions allowed will be for People in office, when they get there office help pregnant, or some young girl they find out selling themselves because her mom can't feed her.

And to those that say they ACLU is eval. All they do is fight for the Constitution. But the Constitution only means something when it favors what someone wants from it. It is cherry picked, like the right to bear arms. That law was made when we did not have a standing army. I like my guns, but these guns that are out there now just should not be in the hands of anyone but the Army and Police. Even Justice Scliea said some gun control was needed and totally within the law. The state has the right to gun control. I guess that brings up another point. No gun control at all, But these same people want to stop abortion.

Right wingers demand an end to abortion for unwanted pregnancies then bitch when they need food stamps.

@Reasonable & Chuck - my sentiments exactly - hypocrisy with blinders on. Anti-Abortion, but no support for the baby if it is born. Protect the innocent unborn baby - unless it is killed by a crazy SOB with a gun (because that's just a random event). Save the whales, but purchase crap from a third-world plant pouring toxins into the ocean.

As a moderate I absolutely boggle at the bat $hit crazy stuff I see from every corner / extreme. It saddens, disappoints, and worries me.

While the decreasing number of Americans who call themselves pro-choice is disheartening to hear—we’re one percentage point lower then the previous record low in 2009—only 20 percent of people polled think abortion should be illegal across the board. Fifty-two percent believe abortion should be legal in some circumstances, and 25 percent believe it should be legal in all cases. And when the polling questions are more nuanced than a simple dichotomous pro-choice/pro-life identification, the answers people give tell a much different story.

Republicans, get your hands off our women & quit trying to control their bodies, you disgusting bastards!

The Republican WAR ON WOMEN lost a battle today!

I think there needs to be more research for birth control, not more abortions. You can buy the fairy tale that abortion doesn't kill, but I NEVER will. The idea that an unborn fetus "magically" becomes a human infant at birth is nonsense at best!

I fully support any woman who has to abort a fetus due to her health, it has to be a very hard decision. But I have no pity for the ones too sorry to use any other form of birth control. 1,000,000 abortions yearly are not accidents! There are no data bases and no limit on the number of abortions a woman can have during her lifetime.

Funny thing is the number of women with children who file for government help keeps going up despite the legalization of abortions, so do the cases of child abuse and child murders.... so just who, besides the medical community are benefiting from abortions? Certainly not those fetuses who were conceived in the wombs of selfish, self-centered, self-indulgent females.

@Battsman

Thanks. I find it hard to accept that there are people in our society that would put so much emphasis on procreation, yet little on 'post creation' support. Post creation support is considered 'socialist' (welfare), but aren't the very laws that attempt to dictate what a woman (or couple) can do in regards to abortion equally socialistic? I see many posts that state outlawing abortion is for the good of society as a whole. To those that believe this I say you are, in fact, a socialist.

Socialism: A theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

@blondeness032

Part of the problem is that those who are against abortion are also against birth control. Look at the recent articles today. Today was the first day that health insurance companies had to offer free birth control, and it has been vilified by the very same people who are against abortion. these are the same people who are against teaching anything other than abstinence. There is idealism and there is realism.
I don't think someone's idealism should take precedent over reality.

blondeness said:

But I have no pity for the ones too sorry to use any other form of birth control.

What if they did? What if there was a tear in the condom? What if she was the victim of incest or rape? What if carrying a baby is perfectly fine but she's told the child will be born with something horrible like TaySachs and live two years in agony and die before their third birthday?

You can't make blanket generalizations like that. Every situation is different. A decision like that should be left to the woman and her doctor and (if applicable) a life partner/spouse who will be helping to financially support the child until it's grown.

Government needs to leave some decisions in the hands of the people. We here in the US vilify China for governmental interference in womens' reproductive rights--this law isn't any different, it's just in the opposite direction.

The so called right to lifers want to have their babies and kill them too....seems to be OK to have them slaughtered on the alter of the Second Amendment or for the profit margins of the Military Industrial Complex but damn the very idea of it being done to protect the mother's life????? Go figure.

40 years ago,abortion was illegal in colo. i was 18 and not married.i tried to get a therapudic abortion and was denied.if abortion had been and legal i know i would have had one.my daughter turned 40 this year and she is a blessing and so are my grandchilren,who would not have even been born.i cannot imagene life without my daughter.yes it was tough,really tough to raise her by myself,but i'm glad i did.just something for all you pro choice people to think about.

At what point do you decide its not a "Fetus" and actually a life?

20 weeks is five months.

Don't you think five months is more than enough time to decide whether or not to kill the child you've been carrying for five months?

How about the Civil Liberties for those that are not able to defend themselves?

www.lifenews.com/2012/02/28/ethicists-in-australia-call-for-after-birth-abortions/

maybe the USA some day

What should one expect of an extreme law, run my an extreme government in Arizona and a extremist party verging on Nazi like rule!

Here we go again. It's the 9th Circuit, the most SCOTUS overturned circuit. I wouldn't be surprised if the 9th Circuit supplies 20 - 30% of the SCOTUS workload.

Snakea

That's sick!

It is good to see there are some people sitting on the judicial bench that have some sense and not ignorance about them. This is more vote for point for reproductive rights instead of the emotional rhetoric espoused by the Believers. The same Believers who are more than ready to kill real children in wars and call it collateral damage. I will never be able to figure that one out unless it is all about controlling the little woman's mind and decisions.

Aside from not making exceptions in cases of rape, or even incest in which deformity is more probable and not detectable until later term, criminalizing abortion is beyond the pale. The Teavangelical Taliban are one of the many reasons the GOP may disappear like the Whigs. Enough!

Re@son@ble in MD

Anyone who is against abortion should be willing to pay (via taxes) for pre and post natal care, and all costs associated with raising that child (by the birth mother or adoption) til it's 18. Otherwise you're a f$%^ing hypocrite.

Strangely once the baby is born, its horrible to kill it, but a few weeks earlier while the baby is in its mother's womb then its ok to kill it, as if it was some kind of tumor ... Just because you don't see it doesn't mean he/she is not there, alive, and feeling the pain when he/she gets killed. It is strange how important - and human - the baby is for a woman who is happy to be pregnant, while reduced to the state of an "unwanted growth" when the mother doesn't want "it".

Personally I feel it is exactly the same human foetus/baby, and that its life is as valuable, whether the mother wants "it" or not.

This is a 20 weeks old foetus:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/06/25/article-1289430-0A316FCE000005DC-907_233x375.jpg

And a lot of people would be willing to adopt those little ones, including myself. I don't see your point about paying taxes for the adoptive parents, the adopted child is their child just as a biological child, and they pay their own taxes just as everybody else. My husband's son is adopted, and he always paid his taxes and put him through school just like any biological child, and he loves him just as much as if he was his biological child. I realise you can't (and shouldn't) force a woman to have a baby, however I cannot help feeling very sad for those little ones who lost their lives. I wish women who are thinking about abortion would get an ultrasound first, so they could at least see the human being in their womb before making their final decision.

Note also that while it is a difficult decision for many women, for others it seems to be their main contraception method (I knew a girl who was 17 and already had 4 abortions). I don't think there should be restrictions if the mother's life is in danger tho.

My opinion has nothing to do with "tea bagging" nor religion.

OneOfTheSane -- It would be nice if there was a Democrat who could win Kyl's seat. Originally Gabby Giffords was going to run for it, but apparently the lack of gun laws has it's benefits for the Teapublicans, eh?

-Anna- -- Life is life when it can live independently--not at conception. Now some would say modern medicine changes all that, but we are learning that preemies have health problems the rest of their lives. Nature is what it is, and that goes for reproduction requiring the opposite sex that doesn't change if you're gay.

You are so right, DB Akron. I read the article Snakea posted the url for, and it is so disgusting I can hardly believe it. Even those who are pro-choice will be moved by the lack of ethics and the lack of humanity in that article.

TruePatriot-445959

-Anna- -- Life is life when it can live independently--not at conception.

This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I obviously disagree, life is life, right from the beginning. The foetus is alive and feels, it is not a tumor.

To answer your question, David, it is a fetus until the day it is born. It then becomes a neonate.

A fetus has not achieved independent life. If the host dies, the fetus dies. It is dependent upon the host in every way.

It may represent the potential for life. However, it is not independent life until it has been born and takes it's first breath.

Pro-choice is as much about having the right to choose not to have an abortion as it is about having the right to choose to go through with an abortion. It's also just as much about the right to choose to raise the child or the right to choose to put the child up for adoption.

I don't know why these devout Christians don't go by the definition in the Bible: Life begins at "the Quickening," that is, when the fetus first moves. Before that it is nothing.

Abortion is legal. But yet anti-choicers. Kill abortion doctors and bomb abortion clinics. Terrorism.

okie joe:: Are you sure? Who wrote the bible? Some human males-- and God didn't tell them what to write. So the definition in the bible is what some human males wanted it to be. No, the guy in the sky didn't write it.

"Anything that can make abortion more rare, I think most people will agree upon,"

Really? Like say making contraception available at no charge? The same people screaming against choice are also screaming about contraception...and the health reform that makes it affordable. And planned parenthood prevents millions and millions more pregnancies than it performs abortions, and they want to defund it. So, your theory that "most people will agree" doesn't hold water. Sane people believe that the best way to decrease the number of abortions is to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies. The others oppose family planning and want to probe your vagina until the baby is born. Even Ron Paul supports this. It should be obvious that this is nothing more than politics dished up for the evangelicals. Praise Jesus and send me your money!

"Anything that can make abortion more rare, I think most people will agree upon,"

Actually according to Gallup, more people believe that abortion should be legal under all circumstances than those who believe abortion should be illegal under all circumstances. If you look at all of the abortion polls you'll probably find it split pretty evenly or pretty close.

okie joe:: Are you sure? Who wrote the bible? Some human males-- and God didn't tell them what to write. So the definition in the bible is what some human males wanted it to be. No, the guy in the sky didn't write it.

Susie-2759697

Just ask joe to provide proof. We tend to rely on facts not opinions.

If you take Bible and religious opinion out of this, what reasons would they go after a women's rights?

And here you say that this is not a "lite" version of Muslim society?

Thomas Blue, actually, the Reich wing IS acting more godly in their pursuit of forcing their will on others. Fortunately, they aren't quite as godly as the Taliban, who follow their god's Draconian laws to the letter. Christians pick and choose which laws they will follow because they've been influenced by a few hundreds of years of rational secularism and capitalism. Secularism gave them a moral base, and capitalism gave them a preference for capital gain over Biblical law.

The governor, Mrs. Wrinkles, and the Sheriff should burn in H!

It's a slippery slope and beyond all the cries of "what about the baby" it comes down to choice and what you do to your own body.... Funny how it also seems to be the same people crying about how the individual mandate is so terrible that in this case say they want the government to tell you what to do with your body in the case of a pregnancy?

The main concern I have is once the government has control of your body and can tell you not to have an abortion, what's to stop them from later telling you that you must have one because you're XXXX (for XXXX insert; a cancer risk, mentally challenged, fat, you've had 2 kids already, at a lower economic level, etc.) and you won't have the kind of kids "they" want; the kind that can perhaps later be a "benefit" to society. And if you have a kid with downs... what's to say they don't just decide that child should be aborted for the "good" of the nation?

Anyone stupid enough to think they WON'T do that once they have the power over your body is an idiot. Any vote to allow them to make this decision is the same as a vote to give them full clearance to tell you anything since you are saying the government knows better than you what to do for your body!

If Conservative Christians (especially males) keep their noses out of my private & personal business (translation: what I do with MY body is NONE of your business) I promise to avoid theirs like the plague!!!

why is anyone still living in this State?

Because somebody has to house these nutjobs, and California was already full!

All of you calling the baby a "fetus" and not a baby will answer to God for your words and actions. An abortion KILLS a baby and it is murder.

I think the ones saying that this will kill the republican party are in for a shock in November. The silent majority will vote and the libs may be the ones in for a shock! BTW, did you notice how crowded your local Chic-Fil-A was yesterday??? Couldn't get even near the place yesterday!

"PRO LIFERS": Is it ok to kill people after they're born with war? If yes--not so pro-life now, are you?

Or you also "pro-gun?" People with guns kill people. If you answered yes--again, not so pro-life now, are you?

What about "pro-capital punishment"? That definitely kills people, are you for it? If you said yes--aha! So much for "pro life" b.a. again!

And are you willing to pay for prenatal and postnatal care for the baby & mother? What about welfare? Food stamps? No? So much for your "pro-life" b.s.

Get back to me on those questions, and then we'll know how really "pro-life" you are, ok?

How can any woman support the right of the state to control their body ?

What next, the state deciding whether or not you can have contraceptives... Oh, right, they are doing that too.

Republicans are an absolute joke, they LIE with everything they do or say.

@Walks-upright:

Because the ACLU is full of racists who say they want to fight against racism. They are cut of the same cloth as the Arizona governor, even if they think they are on opposite sides of her issues.

GOP is all about "Freedom" except when it comes to a woman's womb and people in bed. Just a bunch of hypocrites.

All this discussion about the morality of abortion is moot. ONE IN THREE WOMEN had abortions. That's liberal AND conservative women

It's NOT going to go away if you try to restrict it. It's been around since the beginning of time.

I went to a museum and saw abortion instruments from Roman times.

So, doesn't the idea of free birth control to prevent abortion sound better now?

It' s funny in a very sad way that someone who supports life is called a sick bastard and other lovely names, a Nazi really for supporting life .It's not up to me although I'm against it as my ex-wife had one without consulting me. I'm sure for some women it's a tough choice and they have to live with it, but why can't we disagree without the childish name calling

Hooraaaay! Arizona can kill more babies. This is a great day for America. Women of Arizona, feel free to have your brains F'ed out, there is no consequence for your actions. We taxpayers will gladly subsidize your selfish, irresponsible lifestyle choices, right up to the point we're totally fiscally and and morally bankrupt. You don't have long to wait though so you better get that johnson while you can.

God help us all.

Wait until the majority of residents are Hispanic in AZ. How much do you want to bet the t-baggin rethugs will switch their tune and become the most ardent supporters of abortion since Roe v. Wade? These scumbags only work to support their agenda, which is to support white people and keep them in power. Right now, birth rates are in decline. Their "struggle" to save the baby is totally about self-preservation, nothing more.

Smokey's Mom, loved all the name calling and assumptions, I'm sure you'll be a great mom, I'm just glad you weren't mine

Linda: yes indeed I will answer to God and God alone ( that would be the God of my understanding - Not the God of your understanding) I do NOT answer to you or your conservative friends. Too bad for the American Christian (?) Taliban that we live in America-every one of us has the FREEDOM to choose what we believe and how we behave. The republican party is so divided (thanks conservative christians) that the moral majority is no longer a majority......and quite frankly not so moral. I'm not sure what you mean by the silent majority-if you are referring to yourself then you might need to practise being silent.

Peace, equating Christians with the Taliban might be fun for Liberals, but highly in accurate, when all else fails revert to name calling, and I thought Liberals were the educated ones

Wlee: You haven't a clue what kind of person I am or mother I am, but you had to personalize my comment. Well, here you go: Just like the typical judgmental right-wing nuts, like you, to think you're superior to me. You're a sinner just like all the rest of us, even more so!

hardtostarboard - how exactly are you subsidizing a woman having sex? This court ruling allows prevents AZ from outlawing abortions in certain circumstances. It doesn't force any tax payers to pay for them. And, by the way, who do you think those women are having sex with (or using your vulger ways, f**king?). Are you celebate? Why is it OK for you to have sex, but not women? And if you don't think women should be allowed to have sex, I'm guessing you must be gay? Not that there is anything wrong with that - I fully support all gay rights. Just saying...

wlee: equating conservative christians (?) with the Taliban is NOT fun. It's the truth. Two sides of the same coin. Conservative Christians are very, very good at casting stones so if I wanted to name call I would say "Stone Casters" or "self righteous, holier than thou, spiritually proud, self congragulating, back patters" But then Jesus says "Peace-leave my dearly beloved stone casters alone! Look to your own heart and choose LOVE-and then I say "Prince (of Peace-get it? gentle reminder and establishes the relationship) if you've told me once you've told me a thousand times ....Love God and everybody else!!!! (but I have to admit the conservative christians (?) are a challenge)

Smokey's Mom, wow did I say all that? Going off your comments and nastiness was enough for me to say I'm glad you weren't my mom and I'm sticking to it. Peace, I know you are smarter then what you are saying as the rest of your comment is well thought out. A real Christian does not judge and loves his neighbor, they also don't execute non believers. Peace be with you

Sally Lu, I would hazard to guess they're having sex with men since that would be the means of getting pregnant. You asked so I told you! I'm married, 25 years to the same woman, we have sex when both of us want it. Not 1 single conservative TeapartyRepublican is saying, "women cannot have sex". We are saying go ahead, have sex as often as you want, but be prepared to pay the consequences and don't expect me to help pay for it, UNLESS it is me who is responsible for your condition, then the burden should be shared equally. Along with that, we say abortion is not appropriate for birth control, period. And don't kid yourself, plenty of tax money goes to subsidize abortions.

Life begins at conception. Tens of Thousands of living, breathing, productive, human beings have been delivered by various means prior to full gestation. Some were months in advance others just days. Some needed extensive incubation and medical care, others no more than would be afforded a full term baby. So the argument that life begins at birth is ridicules. To abort a fetus is to kill a baby. Late term abortion is an absolute abomination that should never be used for birth control, but is. In virtually all late term cases, the baby or fetuses (to use your language) could be incubated to full term if the parent ('s) wanted. Furthermore where pregnancy must be terminated for legitimate health reasons, there is no issue what so ever with abortion in this case.

wlee: and with you...............

DOCJT

A fetus has not achieved independent life. If the host dies, the fetus dies. It is dependent upon the host in every way.

It may represent the potential for life. However, it is not independent life until it has been born and takes it's first breath.

Whatever makes you feel better about it I guess ... Sadly tho, a foetus is not just the "potential for life" as you said (the "potential" for life is the ovule and the sperm), it is very well alive, it feels, it hears, it even dreams, it is not a tumor. While once born a baby can survive outside the mother, he has not achieved "independent life" either (as per your definition; being dependent), he still can't survive if no one takes care of him and feeds him.

I don't think forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want would be right, but I am for total consciousness before making a decision (i.e. hear the baby's heartbeat, and look at the ultrasound), so not only the doctor will have to see this tiny human being who just got killed.

Even at 2 weeks old you can already see that it is a human: http://www.stmary.ws/highschool/science/humanbio/q4/unit_11_reproduction_and_develo_files/image009.jpg

I will spare you the pictures of an aborted foetus, it is difficult to bare, at least for me.

a foetus is not just the "potential for life"

Yes it is! It's a potential human.

it feels, it hears, it even dreams,

Not in the early stages of pregnancy, especially before the brain forms.

it is not a tumor.

It's more of a parasite.

While once born a baby can survive outside the mother, he has not achieved "independent life" either

But it has achieved autonomy from the mother.

but I am for total consciousness before making a decision (i.e. hear the baby's heartbeat, and look at the ultrasound),

Do you think most women are idiots, or that they don't already know what's going on when they decide to abort? It's not something most women take lightly.

Even at 2 weeks old you can already see that it is a human:

BS! At 2 weeks, it's little more than the size of a blood clot resembling little more than a raw shrimp. It is nothing remotely resembling human at that stage!

Life begins at conception.

A lifeform begins. That's about it. And there's no guarantee it will survive gestation, as many pregnancies end in miscarriage.

To abort a fetus is to kill a baby.

Merely your opinion. But the law disagrees!

Late term abortion is an absolute abomination that should never be used for birth control, but is.

Where do you get that crap from? Some pro-life propaganda machine? Late term abortions is never used for birth control. A woman doesn't wake up one day in an advance stage of pregnancy and suddenly think: "you know what, I don't a baby after all. So I'll just get an abortion, la de da." Late term abortions is illegal in most states except in cases of fetal demise/abnormality or threat to the mother's life.

Furthermore where pregnancy must be terminated for legitimate health reasons, there is no issue what so ever with abortion in this case.

Health reasons is the cause for late term abortions.

We taxpayers will gladly subsidize your selfish, irresponsible lifestyle choices, right up to the point we're totally fiscally and and morally bankrupt.

Taxpayer money is not used for abortions, per the Hyde Amendment!

All of you calling the baby a "fetus" and not a baby will answer to God for your words and actions.

Spare me the threats from your cosmic boogeyman. It only makes you look foolish!

An abortion KILLS a baby and it is murder.

The law disagrees with your opinion!

gordy327

it is not a tumor.

It's more of a parasite.

I will not address all the BS you just said, only the part I quoted. Repulsive statement. We are talking about a human being in the early stages of his/her development, not about some kind of virus or parasite.

I am glad my stepson's biological mother respected life, contrary to you.

Here is a picture of one of the "parasites" you mentioned (Warning, very graphic) http://amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion05.jpg

I will not address all the BS you just said,

Maybe because I haven't said any!

We are talking about a human being in the early stages of his/her development, not about some kind of virus or parasite.

It's an organism that feeds off its host (mother), absorbs her nutrients, grows, and gives nothing in return to the host (except for possible medical complications). Sounds like a parasite.

I am glad my stepson's biological mother respected life, contrary to you.

What makes you think I don't? I just play into the emotional drama some prefer to inject in the issue. Besides, I also respect a woman's right to choose, just as your stepson's mother apparently did.

Here is a picture of one of the "parasites" you mentioned (Warning, very graphic)

Let's see, your source is a religiously biased site with an obvious agenda. You're not doing your credibility any good. Besides, most abortions are performed in the first trimester, long before any features develop. You can google embryonic development at those early stages and see it's virtually indistinguishable from other embryos from different species, and nothing resembling human.

Anna: Do you have any proof that that picture is even real?

Even if it was, again, that would be very late stage which is illegal in this country.

Here is a picture of what most abortions look like (Warning, NOT graphic AT ALL) http://www.thisismyabortion.com/

Anna: Do you have any proof that that picture is even real?

Doubtful. It looks like something from a pro-life site showing propaganda pics. Certainly nothing to prove the veracity of the picture.

I will not address all the BS you just said, only the part I quoted. Repulsive statement. We are talking about a human being in the early stages of his/her development, not about some kind of virus or parasite.

Scientifically, it is a parasite. Its utterly dependent on another lifeform for sustenance, incapable of survival without the mother or a substitute. It's physically inseparable without extreme damage to its stability.

Scientifically, it is a parasite.

[in my best Arnold Schwarzenegger accent] But it's not a tumOR! It's not!

LOL

I revisited my old post, to see if there was more replies ... sadly there is.

Mandy-2148207. Its nice not to see the foetus/embryo isn't it? Makes you wonder why the woman got an abortion, since there was no foetus there right? just a cup of blood. It makes it so much easier to forget you just ended a life. And for your information, the abortion method varies according to the foetus' age, obviously the result of an abortion of a 2 weeks foetus won't look the same as a the abortion of a 10 weeks old foetus.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/abortion.htm

Tell a happy pregnant woman that her unborn child is a parasite, see how she feels about it. To think you once were at this "parasite" stage yourselves ... lucky for you, your mothers didn't think of you as "parasites".

Honestly I can understand your position about letting the "mother" choose if she wants an abortion or not, as I also think we shouldn't force "mothers" to give birth to a child they don't want, but I don't understand why you feel the need to call a human embryo a "parasite", and why you seem so indifferent to the death of these tiny human beings.

Day 22 (from fertilization): the heart begins to beat.

Day 29: the child is already 10,000 times larger then it was on day 1.

Day 43: Brain waves are already detectable.

I guess believing that the foetus (or embryo) doesn't feel anything when it gets killed makes you feel good about the idea of abortion, but you can put it any way you want, it is still a human foetus/embryo.

I sincerely wish that women would only become pregnant when it is what they want, then we wouldn't be having this heartbreaking (for me) discussion.

Brain waves, heartbeat, and size do not a human being make.

What's more, you continue to ignore that the procedure for abortions requires stopping their heart with a drug. Used on a full adult it wouldn't even cause pain.

Anna, you can skip the education thing. I'm very knowledgeable

Makes you wonder why the woman got an abortion, since there was no foetus there right? just a cup of blood. It makes it so much easier to forget you just ended a life.

Trust me, you don't forget. And the reason, is so that it doesn't turn into a screaming infant you don't want/cant afford/threatens your life.

And for your information, the abortion method varies according to the foetus' age, obviously the result of an abortion of a 2 weeks foetus won't look the same as a the abortion of a 10 weeks old foetus.

Well no Sh-t Sherlock! The point is that MOST abortions happen before week 12. But what anti-choicers tend to do is tout the rare 24 week abortion photos and act like that is reality.

I don't understand why you feel the need to call a human embryo a "parasite", and why you seem so indifferent to the death of these tiny human beings.

A) I didn't call it a parasite in my last comment and

B) I'm not indifferent. I just think that children should be wanted, and that the life of the mother is more important as she is actually living.

I guess believing that the foetus (or embryo) doesn't feel anything when it gets killed makes you feel good about the idea of abortion, but you can put it any way you want, it is still a human foetus/embryo.

Thats because it DOESN'T feel anything.

I sincerely wish that women would only become pregnant when it is what they want, then we wouldn't be having this heartbreaking (for me) discussion.

Yea, exactly, but sometimes it happens and you still dont want it.

but I don't understand why you feel the need to call a human embryo a "parasite",

Parasite is an apt description of a fetus.

and why you seem so indifferent to the death of these tiny human beings.

You presume too much. Some of us happen to think a woman's rights/choice is paramount.

it is still a human foetus/embryo.

But it's not yet a human being!

I guess believing that the foetus (or embryo) doesn't feel anything when it gets killed makes you feel good about the idea of abortion

It doesn't feel anything and abortion is a woman's right to choose, plain and simple.

I sincerely wish that women would only become pregnant when it is what they want

That would be ideal. But reality is quite different.

What ever happened to "smaller government, less intrusion". What would it be like if it were as hard for James Holmes to buy all of his weapons as it is to get an abortion?

Stand and Deliver.

Thanks I couldn't say it better. I can't stand the crowd that wants government out of our lives until of course some bug gets up their butt then they want government to stop it.

Many of the same people against abortion are pro death penalty, figure that one out.

And vice versa cgtrav. Look at the people who are pro abortion yet against the death penalty. Where the unborn have less right to live than Ted Bundy.

Larry,

Let me simplify for you they aren't children.

See how simple. Just because you say so and believe otherwise doesn't make it true.

If I've made this too complicated let me know.

Larry:: Please explain one thing to me. You say that the parents are too lazy or irresponsible to prevent pregnancy in the first place. Yes, they can do it. But I have read about a woman being raped and as a result of that rape became pregnant. How the flip could she prevent a pregnancy that was the result of having been raped?

Nobody is Pro Abortion....it's Pro CHOICE.

Maybe there should be a Pro Abortion group, that says all babies must be aborted. I'm sure they would be considered far left wing, and the Anti Abortionists would be the far right wing. That would put the Pro Choice right in the middle, you know, mainstream America!

Larry Larry Lazarus (you "died 3 times?" hmmmm...):

1st you say: "I wonder if someone can please explain to me the logic and rationale of killing unborn children because the parents are too lazy or irresponsible to prevent pregnancy in the first place."

2nd you turn around and say the opposite: "I feel that taxpayers should NOT be held responsible to pick up the tab for either the birth control pills, day after, etc."

You can't have it both ways. If you really ARE a man--just keep it zipped. Then no one will need to explain anything to you. If you can't get pregnant--then what's your problem?

SUGGESTION: Why don't YOU volunteer to help unwed mothers or providing teens with sex education or helping the poor and the homeless or educating men so that they are more responsible with their penises--do something POSITIVE & CONSTRUCTIVE--instead of getting so angry and complaining about what others choose to do with their bodies. Why don't you LEAD BY EXAMPLE?

cgtrv, so because you say it makes it so, great reasoning So who wants to house all these dead fetus's, what do we do with them?

wlee,

Science says so, I don't need a belief.

cgtrav

Many of the same people against abortion are pro death penalty, figure that one out.

A 4 year old could figure it out, here is a very simple example: Ted Bundy committed murders, a foetus didn't.

cgtrav

Larry,
Let me simplify for you they aren't children.

They are human beings still in the womb, not tumors. A week before birth, a week after birth; same human being, different stages.

See how simple. Just because you say so and believe otherwise doesn't make it true.

They live, feel, hear, and even dream. Deny all you want if it makes you feel better about it, they are still human beings at different stages of their evolution.

One can only kill that which has already been born, Smokie. Join a study group and engage in a little learning if you want to intelligently discuss the issues.

Join a study group and engage in a little learning if you want to intelligently discuss the issues.

Aw c'mon DOCJT. He goes to church every Sunday and the preacher gives a sermon on how they should all practice abstinence, then passes the basket around to collect his fee. Talk about sheep.

Not sheep just have a differant opinion than most of you. heard it all before. it is not human till its born. thats your pov. how about all the collateral damage in iraq and afghanistan. Well it aint hit 40 million yet and far from it. I get a kick outa you liberals. when the opinion is not yours then you have to name call. teabaggers. love it. well i am not one of those. the party of no. You people are hilarious. When you run outa points you start your name calling mantra! Hey i will save you the trouble! RACIST! ABORTIONAPHOBE!. Hey answer me a question. The only group i can figure that done have their civil rights are the pediphiles. When you gonna start backing them?

Must be the heat.

thomas-819915

I get a kick outa you liberals. when the opinion is not yours then you have to name call. teabaggers.

FYI... The term "teabaggers" is what they called themselves until they realized what it meant on the street. Talk about clueless.

As for your argument regarding pedophiles (which I spelled correctly for your future enlightenment), the only people who support that appear to be Catholic bishops.

Sam -- to your point above--

So, you think the termination of life is a good thing

I wonder how many folks disagreeing with this decision here ----do agree with capital punishment?

Hardcoffeeat6am

First you will need to grow some balls and we all know none of you Socialist Libtards have any

Thanks for proving thomas' #3.4 post just above yours is total hypocrisy when he stated about liberals "When you run outa points you start your name calling mantra!"

In any case, you are both clowns.

I promise you, not everyone here in Arizona are right-wing loonies. There are still some of us left trying to protect the constitution from our psychopathic Tea Party colleagues.

i guess its only killing if its a fetus right? screw the women, heck i bet they are hoping more women die- that way they get to marry their high school sweetheart, get a couple of kids and kill her with a third and replace her with some hot young college co ed who has never given birth. rinse and repeat until death do we part, right fellas

Smokie , Here in the civilized part of America we eliminate political threat by voting them out. Killing is for the red

If it's not human till it's born, then legally if one kills a person who is also pregnant they should not be charged with double homicide, right?

One cannot be charged for the killing of a fetus until the point of viability has been reached.

Doc, you can kill that which has not been born. What are you basing this on, the constitution. You know the constitution and most of our laws are based on social acceptance and not on science, right? The supreme court justices do not have science backgrounds.

One of the sane, I guess you ran out of points too "clown" good argument. Gee wouldn't the world be wonderful if everyone agreed with you

Or, maybe their God just finally said, 'Have you lost your ever loving minds?"

You're a devil, turn around and be gone you wicked one. God is going to deal with you and the ACLU.

You just miss the point. roe vs wade has been in effect since 1978. From the supreme court. cant be overturned. And the conservatives barf about abortion to get votes. same way the the liberals barf about protecting womens rights. roe vs wade is not going to be turned over and there is no chance any conservative congress senate and president will do so. When a law goes into effect the conservatives have NEVER overturned that law. So it will be there for however long this country lasts. Which wont be much longer. So quit with the liberal name calling and getting all stewed up for nothing. OH BUT THE TEABAGGERS ARE TRYING TO CHANGE, THEY CANT CHANGE SQUAT. So quit getting worked up because the lib powers that be dont want you to actually notice real issues, like the millions outa work, and the national debt that is gonna put us under, or the fact that the US is no longer a superpower. Calm down. roe vs wade is there. right there look X. and you have the audacity to call conservatives sheep. you are barfing about something that will never be changed, which that is what they want you to do, so you dont realize that no matter what republican or democrat, they are like baby diapers and need to be change often for the same reason.

I used to donate to the NRA and the ACLU. Now I just donate to the ACLU. Their stance on the second amendment is the only thing I've ever disagreed with them on.

I hate Rush Limbaugh, but the ACLU did the right thing when they fought for his right to privacy over his medical records.

I hate the KKK, but the did the ACLU did the right thing when they defended the KKK against government discrimination because of their political beliefs.

CIVIL LIBERTIES = FREEDOM

I could spend a few hours explaining why the ACLU is a noble institution but I think I will let Michael Douglas do it for me. Look up the American President and watch the speech about Advanced Surveillance.

I have served in the military, and I take my oath to support and defend the constitution seriously, how about you?

Thanks for the laugh, 644. LMAO

DOCJT Right? You should look up 644's profile and read some of the crap he's posted on other threads. It's hilarious.

Yeah, a baby that may be in agonizing bad health for its' short life. That's the problem with you guys, you don't REALLY care about the baby, you care that the baby and family SUFFER, because you think your god tells you so. Sick, sick, sick...

Love says I sacrifice myself for the good of the other person. Abortion says I sacrifice the other person for the good of myself." (Author Uknown)

Whoever said that must have been a man who has no idea what a woman goes through when making an agonizing decision about abortion. I'm tired of some pompous, smug, self-righteous jerk determining what woman's motivation is about such a personal matter.

And how many sacrifices do you make on a daily basis to care for the sick, the disabled, and the horrendously poor, cnbradley? How many of the unaborted babies of 14 year olds do you personally care for?

You can be almost entirely confident that any abortion after five months of pregnancy is performed because the woman or the fetus has extremely serious, often life-threatening, health issues. But for those who people who would outlaw abortions even in the case of a child who is the victim of incest or other rape that argument probably makes little difference.

Where did the number 55 million come from?

The abortionist are the ones trying play God and dictate who lives or who doesn't. It's that old diabolical ways of the pagans and those who love the debauchery of the world and think just cause a child is born with a defect, the child should be killed. The ACLU and those who promulgate abortion are nothing but a bunch of "intellectual barbarians". God will deal with such deciet and debauchery. You mockers and scoffers, enjoy you're debauchery while you can, cause it won't last long, but the impending gloom and doom belongs to you and you will spend eternity crying and gnashing you're teeth, shoulda, woulda, coulda won't cut it.

6448092 - So you must be against war in all its forms, since that's the most disgusting and degrading thing humans do to each other to kill and maim innocent people, both children and adults. You certainly could not have felt anything but revulsion when W did his "shock and awe" thing in Baghdad, since that killed tens of thousands of truly innocent babies, women (both pregnant and not), children, and men in that one night alone, along with millions more in the months that followed. Are YOU willing to do something about the debauchery of war? I've tried to do all in my power to stop it for over 40 years. What about you?

The answer to the question "WHEN DOES HUMAN LIFE BEGIN?" is important to this discussion. The answer, whatever that answer is, is opinion, not fact.

If you hold the typical fundamentalist Christian opinion, life begins at conception. And you want the rest of the country to live by rules that are based on that unsupportable opinion, acting as if your opinion is actually a scientific fact.

You cry for the "babies" killed by women who can't afford them but cry against paying taxes for food stamps, medicaid and welfare to insure they aren't raised in abject poverty.

Don - Why don't these fundamentalist Christians just reference their Bibles on when life begins? The Bible says that life begins at "the Quickening," that is , when the baby first moves in the womb. If God says it, it must be true, right?

okie joe:: Did the guy in the sky really say that? Did you hear him-- or did you read that book that was written by human males thousands of years after the things were supposed to have happened.

A fetus isn't a baby. Some would even argue that it isn't even fully human yet, much less a thinking one.

timetraveler, my wife and I had to make that VERY decision. We could let a badly malformed fetus develop into a horribly deformed baby or abort. If you think ANY woman takes getting an abortion lightly, you have never had to make that call. It doesn't matter if the reason is medical, that they don't want another unwanted kid running around the world, or they were raped and everyday of the pregnancy would be another day of reliving that trauma. It is NEVER a casual decision. The bottom line is women should have the ability to make that choice, not YOU, or anybody else.

Hell, half of the pro-life people on here aren't even fully human yet, much less thinking ones!

Well, it is far to common and I believe the cause is following ancient texts written by men to serve men and allow zero evolvement in the species, the basis of discrimination, they keep women in the dark ages. These books insult women 99.9% of the time and you can tell by these comments that these are unevolved humans that refuse to see the light of day let alone the realities of our current society. It's pathetic and I console myself that they will leave the gene pool, recognized as unevolved byproduct, without having left any of their ignorance behind. Self-serving, they are takers and not givers.

American-American-2390509

Well, it is far to common and I believe the cause is following ancient texts written by men to serve men and allow zero evolvement in the species, the basis of discrimination, they keep women in the dark ages.

You wouldn't be referring to that book of fairy tales they plant in hotel rooms, would you?

To the ACLU - keep on sluggin'

To the ACLU - keep on sluggin'

They're on the tea-con hit list just as unions are.

Teabaggers bring up the constitution as mandating defense spending but only required to promote the general welfare not provide it. Under their interpretation the government shouldn't provide any assistance to it's people yet they hate the ACLU who's only mandate is to insure the government follows the constitution. My guess is they really want the government to accept their version and not the intent of the framers as the ACLU do.

One of the sane ,we get it you don't believe in God, so why do you keep insulting those who do. It just proves the point you have no argument. Larry do you know for a fact that all Tea Party members hate the ACLU, if not quit generalizing

Then, should a man have to pay for a child after it is born if he doesn't want it either, but she wants to continue through?

Legit question.

No frickin' kidding!

The reason the people don't really care about children is that they are blindly following their Man-made god. They have no care for reality, only their Man-Made god's statements, those that men wrote on to create subservient fools.

With the exception of your name, you have just described me! I totally agree with you. The tea party extremists have taken things way too far and this needs to stop. Let's take care of the children that are here now and let women take care of their own bodies and make the decision that is right for them.

Because they don't want them aborted doesn't mean they want to pay to feed them. We'll demand your right to live but demand our right not to help feed you. Eliminate food stamps and school nutrition programs.

I love the way some people state, "WE Demand you don't Abort!" We are willing to take your rights from you but don't you dare, "demand we help you feed your bastard kids!" For they are your problem! Don't you dare demand take OUR RIGHTS FROM US!" Well people you can't have it both ways!

Well people if you want them here. They are going to need feeding and you might as well get used to it! It's going to come out of your pocket! Teach you for sticking your nose in our peoples business!

Welcome our Nazi nation and Arizona is leading the way. Oh and before some idiot decide to say, "If you don't like it go back to your country!" You first! Especially since I am Native American!

Jessica, being born here also qualifies me as NATIVE by definition. If you don't want to get pregnant either use something to prevent it or oh my gosh refrain from having sex. Love your Nazi reference, always used when you have no argument

David: thank you.....I'm always confused by that very same thing-what about all the children in this world who are starving to death? Abused & living in poverty? There are plenty of children who need love and food and shelter today -Be Here Now kind of thing..........

I agree with this, but the bottom line is that there is a law on the books that says abortion is legal. Women have the absolute right, without interference of crazy people or their religious views, to decide what is best for them.

I don't disagree with you, but that explosive population growth is not happening in the U.S.

If it weren't for Catholic Hispanics, we would have negative growth. The third world is where birth control is needed.

And what do you think will happen when we only have 500 million people and Mexico has a billion?

When millions of people are starving in one country and its neighbor still has food there will be wars like we have never seen before. That will be Armageddon.

jnap: Please keep your word and promise to stay away from Arizona...you are not needed or wanted here in our beautiful state.

If all the morons move to Arizona, Texas will be pretty much empty.

Florida would be a wasteland!

AlaskaGirl-Well, we would at least be Governorless!! Have any of you ever seen a picture of our Governor? He looks and acts like the dumbest dork you have ever seen. Every one of the ridiculous laws he has passed has been overturned by the circuit courts, and then he wastes tons of tax dollars on appeals (which he also loses). Hey at least we didn't expose the world to Sarah Palin!

FlaNative and yet you elected him.

Anita, I was adopted!! How many babies have you killed in the name of "womens health"!

OK Anita, you have 4 groups of babies there.

1. Did not plan (who's fault is that?)

2. Did not want (like it's a store and you can take it back and get a refund)

3. "horrible and killing disorders" (yes there are those kind of kids out there)

4. Products of rape or incest

Can you put a percent to each one? Then get back to me and we will talk. Most likely 80 to 90% are the sum of number 1 plus 2. But the way that you write, it sounds like all that should be aborted are freaks of life.

The law that the screwed up right is trying to pass where it would be illegal for a woman if she is raped or a victim of incest to have an abortion just pisses me off to no end. Do they have any idea the emotional trauma that is involved just to be raped and then the woman is told when found to be pregnant that she must now carry her attacker's fetus to full term and give birth to said fetus? The absolute cruelty that these people want to inflict on a woman is beyond me. Jan Brewer is a witch to the core and she and those like her should rot in hell.

I absolutely support contraception (birth control pills, rubbers etc)...but it's not my responsibility to pay for it.

Juanita-Did someone ask you to pay for an abortion, or do you just like to whine?

No, smokie, this is about women's health. Killing babies is called infanticide.

I am curious. Would you support a woman choosing an abortion in the case of rape, incest, or a certainty that the fetus is going to have severe, debilitating developmental issues?

if that is your truth, than you must be willing to adopt all of those babies that the birth mothers, and fathers can not afford, and all of the ill babies that may not survive long. You can also pay for the funerals of the birth mother who is forced to have a child even if it costs her her life or the teenager whose parents disown her for being pregnant. This is the choice for a woman and her Doctor, not you or anyone else.

Actually moronic is not knowing where or why to draw the line. You want to throw the baby out with the bath water, yes pun. While at the same time accusing your infidels of having no discretion over medical decisions.

This is not a simple concept medically but it's a real simple concept about power. Your logic to support banning abortion and calling it murder is as graceful as a bull in a china shop.

So, having said all that of which you won't get any way, take your theocratically based desire for power over my body and shove it right up your rosy red rectum.

Its funny how the right/conservative side cry on about abortion and personal accountability, but refuse to answer any questions when asked directly.

Smokie, can you respond to any questions? Or do you just copy/paste the short sightedness on this board?

@ LJ: DITTO! Could not have said that any better myself!

"The real morons are those that continue to say that the life they hold in their bellies do not count."

No, the real morons are people like Smokie who know nothing about reproductive biology. The life that women hold in their bellies is almost entirely the bacteria necessary for the digestion of food. Babies aren't brought to people by storks and they're not conceived or carried in any ones belly. It's called a uterus "moron" and if you don't have one you should SFTU and mind your own f...ing business.

If you're opposed to abortion don't have one, it's that simple. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion.

Sorry Hoodie, us Pro Abortionists believe that everyone should be forced to have abortions. You middle of the road Pro choicers kill me (pun intended!), trying to give women a choice of what they want to do with their own bodies, what do you think this is... a Democracy or something? And of course we can't forget the Anti Abortionists, who are farther to the right than we are to the left, because they believe a Big Head in the Sky, who tells them what to do via an old book written by old men (many who had had abortions themselves!). Men should be making the important decisions!

LJ, what makes a person crazy because they believe in life? It seems to me that taking a life would be the crazy thing

Well actually since abortion is a liberal mantra thats 55 million liberals you dont have now. So therefore without roe vs wade you could have swept the white house senate and congress and the progressives could all decide how we should live.

the problem is when you decide someone should not be allowed to live, then the mantra increases. Of course with the cost of health care, what about all those people in the nursing homes, sitting in wheel chairs. whats their quality of life. you know when you walk in the say HI! HI! HI! and thats about it. Why should someone with altzheimers stage 8 be allowed to live? Thier quality of life is bad. how about stage 7 what about 6. Its been done before. President Kennedy and somewhat Johnson pushed federal laws for the civil rights of blacks. But all those bad Jim Crow laws were pushed and put into law by the liberal democratic party in the south. OPPS! DEMOCRATS! WHO KNEW! Well thats changed. How about those people that come down with multiple sclerosis. lot of money involved keeping them alive and they will eventually die. When will the progressives come up with the mantra of why waste the money,euthanize!

In Der Hitlerland starting about 1933, it was decided that retarded people should be neutered so they would not reproduce and make more retards. course then Adolph decided to kill off millions of Jews, and then they added Gypsys, homosexuals. And then entire areas of "normal people" as the aryan race needed room for expansion. Just history. hang on. we did it first. bet you did not know that.

Could not happen here right? We have our rights? Try looking up Eugenics. Early 20th century. One of the great prodiginators of this movement was Charly Darwins son. Seriously look it up. We were sterilizing minorities and people of lesser intelligence before Hitler.

Based on a task force recommendation, the North Carolina legislature is
considering paying $50,000 to living individuals sterilized by the state against
their will or without their knowledge. North Carolina reportedly sterilized
7,600 individuals between 1929 and 1974. However, other American states also
passed laws legalizing sterilization; the first was passed in Indiana in
1907…

you started with abortion. Where does it stop?

Lol I love the old

"abortion is racist" and "only liberals get abortions" arguments

ED another mature comment

Just what we need now, 40 million more Americans who would be unemployed and not paying taxes.

The government does not pay for abortions.

I would venture a guess that the women getting "preggers" as you say, are in a poverty zone with minimal access to health care and education.That's a readers digest of a complicated situation.

Consider this, if the GOP strives to ban abortion, how does that play with them also striving to eliminate women's access to health care in poverty level zones? Ya know, for education and contraception?

What liberal stupidity are you referring to?

To thomas""""

Wanna cut down on abortion ..wrap it up first

Amunaka: ABSOTUDALUTELY AGREE! As they say it takes two to tango. And seriously, there is a lot said of women who go looking in bars for a one night stand, However, and there is the however, there is little or nothing said about the man waiting with two (lite) beers and no condom. WOW! you and me must be related or something. i am Huron. you indian by any chance?

So Thomas, since you think that abortion should be outlawed, what do you say the punishment should be a for a woman who has an abortion once it's illegal?

"Just what we need more murder. Opps forgot womens rights to choose. Well women have chosen to kill 40 million americans who would have jobs and paid taxes."

Or 40 million babies and children living in abject poverty because republicans oppose any spending on food stamps, school nutrition programs, medicaid or welfare.

To..thomas"""

Whoa....

If you don't like civil liberties, there's a country called Saudi Arabia where you're more than welcome to emigrate to.

Hey Tim, it's actually AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION. Do you have some sort of objection to AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES, i.e. your right to bear arms and the rest of the guaranteed rights in the Constitution? Or do you prefer IRANIAN civil liberties?

Grab a clue pal, YOU'RE NOT an American or a patriot, you're merely an uneducated simpleton. If you want to live in a theocracy move to Iran and see how that works for you. What an ignorant fool.

Hoodie, I gotta say it, you rock. I've "liked" every one of your comments. Keep up the good fight.

Hoodie, you forgot right to free speech, or do you prefer Iranian civil liberties?

jstdafacts, race really

jstdafacts, got to love Liberals first race then Sarah boggles the mind

There's no such thing as an extreme anti-abortion law. Abortion is extreme.

No, trying to impose your beliefs on strangers, people that you don't know is extreme! So grab your version of the bible or whatever you pray to, and go wail in private. What goes on between a woman and her doctor, does not, will not, nor ever concern you.

If you dont belief in abortion, great, practice your beliefs relative to yourself or your family. Im so sick or the self righteous.

major2, could you possibly be one of those self righteous,or is that only people who you disagree with

Well, some of us believe in Equal Rights For Unborn Females... and Unborn Males, of course. Mommies Dearest exercised their Equal Rights when they chose or allowed the activity that creates embryos which are human... not alligators, not monkeys, but humans.

Today's global human population is in excess of 7.03 billion, an exponential escalation defying nature's balances, but anyone who argues that killing helpless humans is the answer flunks Logic 1A-1B from the git go. The answer, the Watsons among you, is integrity, self-discipline, wisdom. We control our behavior in today's world. It's idiocy to blame a helpless unborn human baby.

The self-indulgent deterioration of value systems should frighten us. Or are we so selfish that we promulgate the easy kills instead of following the honorable standard. You can find the answer in the fundamental survival skills for humanity that has not changed in some 50,000 years as historical science indicates. It's been enscripted as early as the 17th Century; the era when the written word ultimately became favored by civilization over oral tradition.

The skill is No. Six in a small group of dogmata; there are only ten, all told, but they combat man's inhumanity to man. Do not resort to foolishness saying an embryo is not human.... take a look for yourself:

"Thou shalt not kill" is not defined by whether the human is masculine or feminine, intelligent or challenged, perfect or imperfect. If you justify assassination of any human being from his or her inception, you justify killing humans for convenience. And when that human cannot defend himself or herself, and depends upon us for protection, our decency and safekeeping of the helpless ones are irrefutable facts.

Not to do so reveals the mentality of those who will destroy any of us of any age at the drop of an inconvenient hat.