It's a freakin Eagle Scout medallion. BFD

I did some research and you are correct, some are more difficult than others, but they do take a great deal of commitment.

Collapse comment 1.1

http://usscouts.org/mb/mbindex.asp

I feel uniquely qualified to comment on this one- I received my eagle scout award in the area of the profiled eagle scout AND I have a gay sibling. Here goes:

The BSA is a private organization not receiving any federal/public funding. It's their choice to set the organizational rules and it's thier choice not to comply with any public or political pressure against them. If they aren't breaking any laws through their rules then they are fine to do as they wish. I'm sure the ACLU could file suit against them but purely on the matter of what you "have" to do, the BSA are fine in doing as they wish.

On the gay rights issue- The eagle scouts whom wish to return their medals are well within their rights to do so. Hey, if they feel that strongly then go for it. I find it very unfortunate that they are willing to disregard the years of hard work they and their families did to achieve that rank. It's been a long time for me, but I can tell you that I still remember all of the camping trips, all of the fundraisers, all of the meetings, all of the times I worked in public service for the Boy Scouts, etc. that helped me become the person I am today. I wouldn't give the rank away because I beleive it is inseparable from the memories. Yes, it takes a family commitment to make an Eagle Scout. If these guys want to walk away from supporting the BSA, that would be an easy way to do so- don't rejoin annually and don't donate your time to the organization. Enough said.

On the "just and eagle scout medal" front- Of the millions that join, just about 1-2% of us commit ourselves to working 4+ years to achieve the rank. We put in countless hours of donating our time to public service, learning practical life skills, and interacting with the public as representatives of an honored organization. It is a big deal to get the rank and it is a big deal to give it up.

On the "newsworthiness" of the article- Funny thing about that, this article has been reworked and new sources provided but it's based on an earlier published article from May. So MSNBC and others, in my opinion, so badly want to make the BSA look bad and promote a gay rights agenda that they are retooling their articles to put them out over and over again. Did you notice that it's an extremely small fraction of Eagle Scouts whom are returning their medals? A dozen from a million isn't a lot or a groundswell of action within the organization. Kind of reminds me of how there was a "mass exodus" from the Mormon church a few weeks ago, which turned out to be a small number of thousands of people leaving from an organziation of well over 10 million people. It was fun for the media to jump on and create the image that they were loosing members over their beliefs too. Why mention this? I think it's more an issue of media stirring the pot than a matter of news, creating a movement over respecting personal choice.

For those returning the medals good for them for the BSA keeping their convictions good for them. Sounds like its best for everyone.

Tim....- No where have I seen any indication that the gay rights protestors going to Chick-Fil-et(sp) tomorrow intend to "buy food". It's my understanding that they are promoting going to the franchises and putting on a diplay only. Heck, if they were buying food they'd be supporting the company. I wouldn't really have any problem with them sharing a kiss in public if they bought dinner from the franchise. It's unusual in public, but it's no worse than seeing a straight couple groping each other in public.

I'm happy to raise my kids with a reasonable perspective regarding homosexuality, but I'm not going out of my way to assist in creating an anything goes society either.

Hmm, not sure if the Boy Scouts have a spot on their application that asks for sexual orientation. If it does, that's news to me. So what does sexual orientation have to do with being in the Boy Scouts as a leader or a Boy Scout? So unless your advertising to everyone, how do they know? Do you have a right to be gay? Yes. Do you have a right to shove it down everyone Else's throat? NO. I for one don't care if your straight or gay, just don't advertise it everywhere you go and in everything you do. I don't advertise I'm straight and make sure everyone knows it when I'm out in public. I just do my thing and that's that. Besides, probably half the Boy Scout leaders are gay anyways, so what's the big deal?

DeVos will regret this. As the 20 year old pointed out, many have worked very hard to earn those badges just to give them back.

They didn't work hard for a piece of metal. Their accomplishments aren't undone simply because they sent the medal back. It is just a symbol.

JoeNY - So... because the CEO says that he does not support Gay Marriage, (Which by the way is his right as a citizen of the USA), You feel it's your responsibility to put all those workers out of a job to make the one CEO pay for saying something he has every right to say? When has it become illegal to not be Gay? Are you aware that allot of the employees of chick-fil-et (not sure of spelling) are gay? You will be putting them out of work as well. I don't care if your gay, but don't tell me I don't have a right to voice my disagreement if your going to shove it down my throat.

JoeNY,

Interesting perspective you have. I'm curious how, if at all, this impacts your relationship with your brother..? Seems to me you are telling him that you support an organization that has institutionally rejected him due to his natural state of being.

Lisa, what can someone say to you. Are you that clueless? The badge is a symbol of accomplishment and commitment. It seems like most people place value on these symbols, just like diplomas, wedding rings, military medals, pictures of loved ones etc. On the surface the monetary value is insignificant, but personal value is substantial. It's sad that you can't understand that.

Yeah I got that Realist. My point was even in the article Devos said it was difficult to get rid of the symbol of his hard work and accomplishments. Those were not my words. Heck, I don't get attached to much. I've moved around so much that I just toss stuff. I have everything I need in my head.

It's sad that you cannot read into these posts.

LeftLisa,

I'm glad you are not running the Olympics. "Congratulations on winning first... no medal for you, but the memory will last a lifetime".

Left Learning Lisa, did you read the article? Those medals were not meaninless to him. It is my opinion by what he said, that he will regret that. Worry about your own priorities and not mine honey.

JOeNY Interesting that the Boy Scouts would be wiling to strip scouts of these badges if they found out they were gay and are willing to disregard the years of hard work the eagle scout and their families did to achieve that rank. I think that is the other side of the story.

As for not taking federal money, true but we also must remember many cities give them free use of sports fields and town halls and camping grounds and of course I pay property taxes to those cities so I'll have my say against this private organization who use public facilities paid for by the citizens of the city.

However they are in their rights to take this stance and here in Washington State we are in our rights to ignore their charter, we have gay men and woman serving as leaders on out local scouts. Where we manage to teach the true meaning of leadership, lead without prejudiced.

In the end they are a good organization with a misguided rule which sets and unfortunate example of what true leadership entails to its members.

Hmmm... Someone made the comment that religion and scouting go hand in hand.

I wonder how many people in general, in scouting in particular, realize the King James, the famous Bible editor, was either an outright homosexual, or a very active bi-sexual. That is not my opinion - it is historical fact. People in doubt should read a comprehensive array of "History of Scotland," books to learn more about King James.

More likely than not, there are many people involved in scouting who are in the closet about their same sex preferences. The fried chicken store owner has a right to express his views. Other people who disagree with those views do not have to buy his food. In each case, that is freedom of speech.

RETURN YOUR BADGES. Who cares. Scouts knew years earlier the criteria to join. Don't want to follow the rules, DON'T JOIN. Scouting helps to make you a better person. It is not going to get you a special job or more money in life. It's just an organization for self fulfillment. Nobody cares about the badges and awards except those that earned them. Do what you want with them, they are yours.

So the scouts teach boys to grow up being confident, assertive, and standing up for what they believe in.

Then, when an eagle scout does just that.... stands up for what he believes in... the Republicans on here demonize him for it.

Yes, how dare those eagle scouts do what they were taught in the scouts. Oh the humanity.

"Scouting helps make you a better person", if that were true they would be helping teach freedom, equality and respect for all. Otherwise, they are teaching that only "certain" people are worthy of equality. Anyone know how long it's been since the ban was lifted for people of color? Just curious as I'm sure they were once disallowed too.

Doc Holiday Jerry Sandusky was straight, married and had children you Freakin moron! Just because he was fondling little boys doesn't make him gay. Perhaps it was repressed sexuality, but don't dare call it homosexuality, because that it is NOT! His stupid wifey still thinks he's innocent so clearly she bought it.

How is exactly do you define "earn" those rights? What did you do to "earn" your equality and the right to marry???? Please do tell....

Heartland25:

Not to nitpick, but I believe Sandusky's children were all adopted. (At least one has also come forward alleging he was the victim of sexual abuse).

And you claiming that Sandusky was straight is just as absurd as someone claiming he was gay. The man was a pedophile, plain and simple. To try and associate this type of predator with any 'normal' sexual orientation is beyond ridiculous.

If they want to hate, STOP MAKING ME PAY FOR IT!!!

And how exactly are you paying for it?

mguy who is demonizing him, you're correct it's their choice BTW how do you know what political affiliation anyone on here is? Doc, you are confusing pedophiles and being gay two different things

If the Boy Scouts didn't allow blacks, Asians, Jews, or boys with freckles, wouldn't you agree that they were discriminating and want to break all ties with the organization? Same with gays, then. People are born gay, just like they're born black or whatever, and excluding them from a organization for that reason is illegal and un-American. I also protest Scouting because they discriminate against atheists.

And for you knee-jerk reaction bigots, gays are NO MORE likely to be pedophiles than straights. Pedophiles are committing crimes and should be banned from involvement in childrens' organizations. Gays, however, are commiting NO CRIME: it's just who they are, they are romantically attracted to the same sex or are otherwise on the wide spectrum of sexuality that does not include molesting children.

WhistleBerries - King James 1 may have been homosexual or bi but he did not edit (or translate) the King James bible. That was done by dozens of biblical scholars who were funded through the project King James 1 endorsed in the early 1600s to retranslate the bible and hence the version was named for the king. Presuming your "facts" are true, once again, it appears God was able to use fallible people to accomplish His infallible will.

Mr. DeVos, appreciate your conviction and your right to legally and constitutionally express your opinion. As for me, as long as the BSA holds the course in this matter, my donations will continue.

If for some reason the BSA choses to abandon this policy, then I encourage the Eagles scouts who do not agree with the change to return their badges and stop donations but continue to work on the inside to have the policy reinstated.

PS: see you at CFA Friday. Eat mor chikin!

Applause to this man for standing up for what he believes in.

For the Boy Scouts, you may continue your discriminatory practices. However, you should immediately and forever, be cut off from any support from the federal government.

http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/articles/bsa.html

So all along this scout enjoyed the nightly visits of the scout master?

I respect people whose beliefs are strong enough that they are willing to pay a price to hold them. In this case, I respect this man for believing strongly enough in his convictions in support of gays that he is willing to give up his medals. (However, I doubt that the boy scouts will strike him from their "Eagle Scout" records or no longer consider him to be an Eagle Scout.)

I also respect the Boy Scouts for sticking by their core beliefs and being willing to endure the criticism and backlash that goes along with that.

Sometimes believing in something COSTS you something, and that's okay. If your beliefs can't withstand some testing or scrutiny, one has to wonder how strong they really are.

how is Sandusky not gay? I thought the definition of gay was having sex with people of the same gender as yourself.

So it shouldn't be called Boy Scouts of America. Homosexuals are just as much a part of America as any heterosexual is. Then why aren't they treated as such? Because it is an organization that is discriminatory.

BOY SCOUTS OF HETEROSEXUAL AMERICA-- that is what they should be renamed. BSHA.

They teach equality, freedom and respect for others? That is just BS, MS, PhD. They are teaching intolerance and disrespect.

What do they do if two brothers qualify for Eagle Scout but one can't become an Eagle Scout because he is a second-class citizen? Promoting discrimination? In other words, the one brother is better than the other brother?

@Heartland - Jerry Sandusky's 'repressed' sexuality was homosexuality as he repeated (and only) sought out young males and he is a male. There were no females that he sought out for his activities.

He may be in denial and lived the lie of a marriage, but Jerry Sandusky is a homosexual.

JohnnyOnTheSpot-3794903

Heartland

What would you call it? If a grown man sticking his penis up a child's arse isn't homosexuality then what is it, besides sick?

Just because he had fooled his wife and others for all those years, doesn't make him straight.

Jerry Sandusky is every thing that is wrong with the gay life style. I know gays for the most part are not like that, but JS was the worst of the worst. While all gays are not pedophiles, almost all pedophiles are homosexuals.

So heartland, take your views "Perhaps it was repressed sexuality, but don't dare call it homosexuality, because that it is NOT!" and shove them up your a$$. But you'd probably like it too much.

Johnny, you need to educate yourself before you rant. Same-sex pedophilia is not part of homosexuality any more than opposite-sex pedophilia is part of heterosexuality. Your ignorance is expressed with mean, narrow minded blowhard comments that have no value. Jerry Sandusky is not gay. Jerry Sandusky is a pedophile.

JohnnyOnTheSpot-3794903

Apparently, you do not know very much about law do you. What Sandusky did, is no different than any other adult that commits a sexual act on a child. We have laws in this country about this kind of behavior. If a female adult uses in aninmate object on a child ( you can use your own imaginatino here), in the same manner as sandusky did, they WOULD BOTH be label a sexual offense against a child.

What two consenting adults (of the same sex do) is not illegal. Lawrence vs Texas (2003)

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/27/national/27GTEX.html

If you don't like the gay sexual acts, then don't participate in them, simple right? But do not even try to attempt to equate what two consenting adults do to ANY adult that commits a SEXUAL CRIME on a child, they are not even in the same ballpark.

Stacey Peterson

The argument is irrelevant whether Sandusky's was straight or gay. The overall fact is he was a pedophile. He was a pedophile because he had sex with children not because he may or may not have been gay.

That is the only fact. Discussing his sexuality is merely conjecture.

Some of you people really need a lesson on the differences between a pedophile and a homosexual.

Sandusky is an abuser. It is well documented that straight men abuse boys, yet are not gay. They are not attracted to men. They abuse because of power not passion.

"But it’s more important for it (the badge) to do something good for others … I can look at it and be sentimental about it, but it’s what it does for others that means more."

The Boy Scouts of America actually not acting like Boy Scouts should. Why are all the false Christians, pretend Boy Scouts, and fake good people with their puss faced bigotry speaking for the actually good Christians, good Boy Scouts and actually good people?

I was a Boy Scout. And there is no way in hell my son will be one while the organization strives to hurt people rather than help them.

I count myself among those who accept the BSA stand on not allowing gays to join, and who support gay rights and who accept Mr. DeVos' right to his actions. I think the mission of the BSA to promote a attitude of self-reliance, in the company of all males, would be denigated with the inclusion of gay boys.

As an adult/boy sleeping issue, a local scout troop forbade anybody over age 16 (or maybe 18) from bunking in the same tent with someone under that age. Don't know if that was a BSA rule.

@Krestov - I'd agree with you if he wasn't selective with his victims, but over a long period of many years they were ALL males. Males were all he sought. Reports say his victims ranged from 10-17, a 17YO is not exactly a child.

Pedophiles typically seek either 'heterosexual activity' with their victims or 'homosexual activity' with their victims, but you rarely if ever hear of a pedophile (or rapist of adult victims) with both. Jerry falls into the homosexual camp.

I'll be holding onto my Eagle Scout badge, thank you very much. I'm not personally opposed to gay marriage, in fact I favor allowing it. But I don't see why their organization should be forced to conform to some politically correct ideology. They contributed a great deal to my development as an individual, and provided me life experiences that have made me a better member of our society.

No one takes issue with the Boy Scouts not allowing girls. If this was really an issue of discrimination, you'd think that would be the most obvious thing. And setting such membership criteria as the Boy Scouts does is completely understandable. The organization is designed to teach young men to grow into responsible and confident members of society. It's programs are all geared towards that goal. It is not set up to deal with the significantly different pressures and problems faced by young women, or even young men finding themselves with homosexual leanings.

The Supreme Court has ruled on this. All private organizations have the right to set out membership standards. The Boy Scouts are within their rights, as they are a privately funded organization. Of course, those who return their badges are within their rights too. . .but I really don't see the point.

I will encourage my son to participate in Cub Scouts, and Boy Scouts when he reaches the appropriate age, just as I did. It was a fantastic experience.

In 20 years, when the garbage of our society who look at gay couples with the same contempt and disgust as the bigots of 20 years earlier did with interracial couples, we will finally be able to look at these pathetic specimens and smile.

Sorry.

Civilization has passed you by, my friend.

Now go forth, recede back into your caves of false-doctrine and pseudo-morality.

The rest of us have gone about the business of creating a society based on human worth and progress. We respect ideas over beliefs. We respect reason over faith. And above all else, we respect human beings over dogma.

Just an FYI for people who dont think Scouts receive Govt funds. They receive numerous land grants and free access to Public land. There are plenty of scout camps using Public land.

tom marvolo,

"I don't mind the Boy Scout's ban on gays, even though I'm a supporter of gay rights."

Just how in the hell can you be for banning gays and being for their rights at the same time? You are either FOR or AGAINST them. No such "FOR-AGAINST position! Best hypocritical statement I've heard in a long time!

If the head chicken flipper has the right to speak his mind why not this guy? Oh yea I forgot, you disagree with him. They were his medals/badges and he has the right to do with them as he pleases. As you pointed out it takes a lot of hard work to earn them so I doubt that he is doing it lightly. Let's see if I have this correct. You can't let any gays in scouting or even the children of gays for that matter. Many catholic priests and evangelical ministers were convicted of being a sexual predators and yet priests and ministers are still allowed near kids? There were 2,000 US cases of abuse within the Boy Scouts of America prior to 1994, and one abuse incident was as recent as 2006 according to wiki. All the cases involved men raping boys. So why are lesbians banned. Seems to me they would be the safest boy scout troop leaders. Pedophilia is not exclusively a gay act. There are gay predators but the problem is pedophilia not homosexuality. A troop leaders sexual life, gay or straight should never come up in scouting life.

@ Tom Marvolo:

You said:"How many parents here with daughters would feel comfortable with a straight man sleeping in tents overnight with a group of 10 year old girls? The answer is not too many. Therefore if we extend that logic, it's not ridiculous to think that many parents wouldn't feel comfortable with a gay man sharing a tent with a group of underage boys."

So, I that was the BSA's motivation, then they would have no reason whatsoever to exclude that lesbian mother. Since she is obviously only attracted to other women, it's clear that she represented absolutely no danger to her son and his friends. Yet she got expelled. Can you explain that? See, that has absolutely nothing to do with protecting the children. That argument is pure BS.

UH..Newsflash...Rochester is hardly upstate NY...you can travel another 6-7 hours north within NY before hitting canada

That'll Show 'em!

@Stacey Peterson

I like your explanation thank you!

I think the problem is that some people are implying he was a pedophile because he may have been gay.

Richard,

I think Tom's point is that, while he supports Gay rights, he also supports the rights of private organizations to believe what they want, and to put forth policies they feel reflect those beliefs .... as do I.

Yes, these policies are based within ignorance and cultural relics that shouldn't be respected. However, the group (as a whole) has every right to have these policies as part of their personal liberty.

People need to stop confusing these issues.

The Boy Scouts have every right to be ignorant @!$%#s.

Just as I have every right to point out that they are ignorant @!$%#s.

The Left's hypocrisy is quite astonishing. Let's not forget, Obama himself didn't even come out for Gay marriage until a few months ago ... but I sure as hell didn't see anyone boycotting him.

@Tom Marvolo #1.7

I don't mind the Boy Scout's ban on gays, even though I'm a supporter of gay rights. How many parents here with daughters would feel comfortable with a straight man sleeping in tents overnight with a group of 10 year old girls?

So by your "logic" I gather you can't be trusted around underage girls.

Just how in the hell can you be for banning gays and being for their rights at the same time? You are either FOR or AGAINST them. No such "FOR-AGAINST position! Best hypocritical statement I've heard in a long time!

Richard: It is the same thing as Chik-Fil-A. People have the right to express their opinions freely. You don't like it, don't support them. Gays should know that freedom of speech works both ways. You cannot curtail the rights of the majority in order to make room for only those few. And since this was a private organization, no laws were broken.

@ Yashmack

I will encourage my son to participate in Cub Scouts, and Boy Scouts when he reaches the appropriate age, just as I did. It was a fantastic experience.

Unless he turns out to be Gay of course.

The Boy Scouts of America actually not acting like Boy Scouts should. Why are all the false Christians, pretend Boy Scouts, and fake good people with their puss faced bigotry speaking for the actually good Christians, good Boy Scouts and actually good people?

Derek: Just where did you get your values from? If you believe in Boy Scout "values" they were the same ones when you attended. Trouble is, back then you weren't ruined by all this PC crap. Children often have a better understanding than their parents when it comes to socializing. Despite what you might want to believe, kids are already uncomfortable with their changing bodies; having homosexuals in the mix, doesn't do much to help them.

Basically it's like their leaders are girls, which no boy really wants to aspire to.

Just how in the hell can you be for banning gays and being for their rights at the same time? You are either FOR or AGAINST them. No such "FOR-AGAINST position! Best hypocritical statement I've heard in a long time!

It's actually pretty easy. I support gay's rights to get married, adopt children, make health care decisions for their partners, etc. I don't support their right (or anyone's for that matter) to infringe on the rights of a private organization to make decisions on which members they want to include or exclude.

So by your "logic" I gather you can't be trusted around underage girls.

I'm not a pedophile if that's what you're suggesting, but I don't think it would be unreasonable if you didn't want me sharing a tent with your 10 year old daughter.

So, I that was the BSA's motivation, then they would have no reason whatsoever to exclude that lesbian mother.

I have no idea what their 'motivation' is and frankly, it's not my place to question it. I don't question why Augusta doesn't allow female members either. The people who are bothered by this will stop supporting the BSA and the ones who are not will continue to do so. That's what freedom and choice is all about.

It's a decision... Apparently it's his.

Unhappy-1583758 "Gays should know that freedom of speech works both ways"

However the main problem with chic-fil-a is not to do with freedom speech. I agree the CEO has the right to speak his mind and talk about his own personal values.

There are two main problems with Chic-fil-a, they have donated million of dollars to organizations who have the job of trying to defeat any measures of marriage equality and secondly through these donations Chic-fil-a is trying to influence the law of the land to come in line with their religious views.

This is about a private company using funds in the public political arena to prevent equality, that is when he stumbled from freedom of speech and blurring the line between religion and law.

There are two main problems with Chic-fil-a, they have donated million of dollars to organizations who have the job of trying to defeat any measures of marriage equality and secondly through these donations Chic-fil-a is trying to influence the law of the land to come in line with their religious views.

It's funny how when Google, Amazon, JCPenney, Hollywood, etc. gave all those donations, that no gays had a problem with them " influencing" marriage equality issues.

But I guess that is just the double standard people have for gays nowadays, right? Until gays refuse donations from these companies as well, no one will see your point.

There are two main problems with Chic-fil-a, they have donated million of dollars to organizations who have the job of trying to defeat any measures of marriage equality and secondly through these donations Chic-fil-a is trying to influence the law of the land to come in line with their religious views.

Who cares? The political views of any company are just an extension of those of their shareholders who have every right to financially support whatever political movement they chose. Didn't Oreo just come out with a 'rainbow' cookie recently in support of gay marriage? I don't have a problem with either scenario and neither should you.

Good!! I'm glad the FEW returned them! They know the "standards" and if they dont agree with them, well...they should have NEVER been IN the scouts! All of you weirdo's have YOUR weird "standards" and the straight community have ours. Keep to yourself and we will keep to ourselves. Problem solved! You can sleep with your own father or mother as far as I'm concerned. Just dont force your weirdness on everybody else! FREAKS!

Texan,

I'm straight, but I find you more disgusting than anything I've ever heard that goes on inside the bedroom of a homosexual couple.

It's actually pretty funny you brought up incest ... maybe you should actually read that little book you clutch so tight?

And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

Who's the weirdo now, hillbilly?

You're the one that actually believes this stuff. Now go smack your sister in the eye for me.

To those who say the Boy Scouts have every right to ban homosexuals, as they are a private organization, yes. They do have that right. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

To those who say "if you're gay, don't join" - do you realize boys join Cub Scouts at ages as young as 5 or 6? They most likely aren't aware of their sexuality at that point. Then as they grow older and do become aware, they are cast out of a group that has become a second family to them.

And to whoever said "do you want a gay scoutmaster sleeping in a tent with young boys" - you obviously aren't aware of the Boy Scouts policies on child safety. Leaders do not sleep in tents with boys. And you always have to have two-deep leadership, so there is more than one adult present to ensure safety.

Oh, and Boy Scouts do allow girls to join. After age 14, there's a branch called Venturing Scouts. Any camping trip that involves girls has additional rules regarding the need for appropriate numbers of chaperones of each gender based on the number of boys/girls on the trip.

truetexan: I'm straight and don't ever speak for me.

Tex,

Something tells me you have a strong habit of looking at dongs on the interwebs.

Have you hired a friend to wipe your computer's history if (god forbid) your obese heart gives out on you?

Something to think about ......

Unhappy-1583758

This is different than CFA. The Boy Scouts 'claim' to be a private organization, but they still receive taxpayer support. CFA does not receive tax payer support on anything. If the Boy Scouts want to remain a private organization, that's fine. However, they receive NO federal funding/support at all.

P.S. CFA donates to an organization that is labeled a 'HATE" group. That hate group lobbies Congress to not "condemn" the killing of innocent gays in Uganda. All American Corporations (like Google etc) probably have their lobbyists (which is also wrong), but show me one of them that supports an outright hate group.

Like I said, you are what you support.

whwm, I didnt speak to you in the FIRST place. I dont think either of you are straight. Just to ashamed to come out of the closet! AND you should be! I dont go for porn either einstein! Thats just as sick!

@Tom Morvolo

Just saying, one's sexual preferences do not make them a pedophile. My son's 5th grade teacher was gay, but I had no issue with him taking the class on overnight trips. As I understand the psychology, pedophiles, even those that like young boys are very rarely homosexuals, and homosexuals are rarely pedophiles. The issue is about trust rather than sexual preference. I would be suspicious about any adult wanting to share a tent with children that were not their own.

I dont go for porn either einstein! Thats just as sick!

Whoa ... now I KNOW you're into some sick @!$%#

Like I said, you are what you support.

So, since you support the bible, does that mean you support Incest, slavery and genocide?

Oh and don't let the BSA know you believe in the WICCA religion and not a christian one. (or an atheist)

The BSA is a private organization not receiving any federal/public funding. It's their choice to set the organizational rules and it's thier choice not to comply with any public or political pressure against them.

If it was true that they didn't receive any public support, I'd say let them do what they want. But, in 2010, their jamboree was held on an active Army base. This article points out how they are coordinating for their 2013 jamboree with public agencies: http://wvgazette.com/Outdoors/Recreation/201207140024

Another slow news day I guess. Gotta push the agenda though, no matter what. Okay, some no-name guy who could be anything and no one ever heard of somewhere in Upstate New York goes to the mailbox and mails his Scout stuff to Texas. Next: The President watches TV and claps. Weather? First a word about a new car ... then some cosmetics because you're worth it ... then a lawyer asking if you've been in an accident. Pacing myself here ....

Stan, I know, god!

I'm so tired of people pushing their agendas down my throat.

Why just the other day I was watching this TV show and two straight people were kissing!!! We get it people, you're straight ... can you please just keep it out of my face!!!!

CFA donates to an organization that is labeled a 'HATE" group.

Do tell..... what organization and who gave them the label? The government? United Nations? Gay activists? Rachel Maddow? Catholic Church? It makes a big difference......

Captain Krunch:

Whats next? I figure in another 30 years people will be upset because they cant engage in bestiality?

Maybe have a protest because they can't marry their pet?

It is a legitimate question you pose. Now that the line in the sand over right and wrong has been erased and moved, just who gets to decide how far it should be moved?

Many people have made the same analogy as you have and although it would seem to be abhorrent to the "majority" at this point in time......it's only a matter of time before this issue arises.

Opposition to those in favor of interspecies sexual intercourse and marriage will also be painted as hateful in nature and discriminatory. But is it really so? No, once again, disapproval, disagreement or even digust is not the same as hating.....Simply, one's wrong is another's right.

Back to the strictly human focus.......there has already been the question of why can't girls be boy scouts and boys be girl scouts, which also logically lead to further questions:

If a private organization such as the boy scouts is not allowed to decide who their doors are open to,...... then is it fair to block a 60 year old man from joining the girl scouts? Unless that is, age discrimination will be given an exemption to the moral cleansing and reshaping of everyone's brains.

Maybe the answer is create one's own organization instead of bulling ones' way where one is obviously not welcome for whatever reason. These are all very important questions for our future. There is no such thing as total freedom. For one's "freedom" will eventually impinge upon that of another.

No I am not "against" the LGBT community and the predictable attacks labeling this writer as an intolerant bigot shall fall upon disinterested ears..... That tactic has been so overused it has become a joke. I do wish you all a happy life and equal consideration under the law.

However, as usual, I am simply asking questions.

Really if those readers who are at present seething with anger like a volcanic buildup before an eruption, can just get over themselves and think..... about the questions..... Where do the new lines concerning morality get drawn and by whom?

Once your very much hated arch enemy and scourge of humanity, the villainous Christian/Conservative/Republican demographic has finally died off,....... how will you answer to those who will inevitably make the claim that their preference for necrophilia and or beastiality is no ones business?

Wow another Gay rights article.. Very looooooong article. If MSNBC was concerned about real issues like homelessness, starvation, corrupt politicians (instead of brown nosing them on air), environment, they might actually make a difference. As it is they have a steady stream of gay/black/jew/gun stories in a loop daily. Do they actually still call themselves journalists instead of a liberal PR Firm?

Tom Marvolo

I don't mind the Boy Scout's ban on gays, even though I'm a supporter of gay rights. How many parents here with daughters would feel comfortable with a straight man sleeping in tents overnight with a group of 10 year old girls?

The answer is not too many. Therefore if we extend that logic, it's not ridiculous to think that many parents wouldn't feel comfortable with a gay man sharing a tent with a group of underage boys. Yes, the policy might be discriminatory but frankly this is a private organization that should be allowed to dictate their own rules and policies.

#1.7

Tom,

Unfortunately your logic here is a bit flawed. If BSA were that worried about contact between contrasex scouts and leaders, then why wouldn't they have gotten rid of Den mothers before now? There are plenty of straight women making contact with those boys. Is it only not okay if it's an older man and a little girl as you keep saying?
And if Den mothers have no overnight alone time or risk of personal contact with little boys then - again, based on your logic - why was that Lesbian Den Mother kicked out of scouts triggering this entire debate??? You really think a woman who has no interest in the male gender is a bigger threat than a straight den mother?

You may think your logic is being applied both ways but there are more than 2 directions that you must consider in order for it to be sound logic. Once you start looking at other directions your argument loses steam, my friend!

Tom Marvolo

Who cares? The political views of any company are just an extension of those of their shareholders who have every right to financially support whatever political movement they chose. Didn't Oreo just come out with a 'rainbow' cookie recently in support of gay marriage? I don't have a problem with either scenario and neither should you.

#1.72

Tom,

I don't think you understand the larger issue. Which is surprising since you've presented yourself on this forum as someone who is the firm believer in the rights of the people. When you allow the beliefs of the shareholders who use company profits to funnel into pockets of the people who write our legislation, you take the power away from the people that were MEANT to influence our lawmakers. It is unbelievable that people are blindly condoning a corporation's ability to donate to political activist groups who share their beliefs, who then turn around and give that cash to Political campaigns in exchange for an elected official's action in Washington on those said beliefs. That is called an indirect bribe!!!!

So rather than debating CFA's right to do this we should be prohibiting ANY corporation's ability to literally buy politicians. Be it Chic-Fil-A, Nabisco, Starbucks, Walmart or Target. Be it pro or anti gay leaning Executives & shareholders. Capitalism can be a beautiful thing for the free market. But it is meant as a right to allow anyone to turn a profit in this country. That is a far cry from the right to impose personal morals. CEOs shouldn't have a voice that trumps the masses, and the current laws leave the door wide open to do just that!

If a politician takes a position on an issue it should be because millions of people influence them, NOT 1 person's million$. That defeats the entire purpose of having the right to vote and takes away the individual rights that you supposedly stand for. Kind of a contradiction there!

It may be easy to not be bothered by that now, but come the day when a law is passed in Washington that personally effects you, your family and your assets, I guarantee you will be singing a different song! It can just as easily work the other way around.

Unhappy-1583758

Obviously you've lost the understanding of how equality works and how preventing equality is not the same.

In granting rights to marriage equality Mr Cathy's marriage will not be harmed nor will it change in a single way. Granting marriage equality however will improve the lives of millions of people in loving relationships.

Criticizing companies who give money to take away rights and applauding companies who give money to expanding rights is not a double standard.

You can't equate something that will prevent rights as meritorious as something that will grant rights. It is like saying we should throw both the victim and perpetrator of a crime in prison.

Ponderthis,

Your analogy, (not that you thought of it all by yourself), is and will remain ridiculous. Marriage, whether you believe in same sex marriage or not is a consent in both religious and legal circles. A contract that requires legal standing of the participants. Children below a certain age have no legal right of consent. Adults that have been deemed unfit mentally to make decisions cannot legally consent to marriage. Animals are not persons, but property and therefore are not able to consent to marriage or any other legally binding agreement. Same for inanimate objects.

Stop the BS. If you have an adversity to Gay marriage, you are well within your rights to voice your opinion, but really stop with the terrible analogies.

Ponderthis1

It is a legitimate question you pose. Now that the line in the sand over right and wrong has been erased and moved, just who gets to decide how far it should be moved?

No one thinks you and captain crunch are bigots. You both simply lack the mental capacity to think critically.

NO one should have to spell out the differences between homosexuality and bestiality to you. But I am afraid if you sat down and thought really REALLY hard about it your head might explode!

It's the same as the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality.

That lowest common denominator goes way beyond defining "traditional marriage".

Still not following me? Just google the word "consent", and then get back to us to see if the light bulb has turned on yet...

@brenda1964,

Your post (1.20) shows how much you know about the BSA. Scout leaders are required to take the boys on overnight camping trips and wilderness excursions. The leaders that participate in this part of scouting are men and the reason they are men is because they sleep in tents with these children. They also use the same bushes to relieve themselves. Why subject any child to that type of behavior when it comes to opposite sex. These children almost all of them are just about to or reaching puberty and don't need this injected into their lives just to comfort an adult that doesn't like his/her sexual orientation. The BSA is the last place children should be subject to sexual harassment or embarrassment of any kind. This rganization was set up so fathers would get more involved with their sons not so the mothers or want-a-be fathers could participate in those types of outings. I never made it to the boy scouts but was in the cub scouts and at that age den mothers wear fine but I enjoyed doing things with my father. It is a big deal to a child to get this type of experience with their father or boys and men they can relate to. Lets leave your sexual orientation out of a child’s development or if you still feel the need to belong to a group, create one that allows the type of participants you want. Stop forcing your sexual behavior on others.

The BSA has been getting Public money for MANY decades. Back in my day (the 1960s), they were given free use of National Guard Armories, received most of their tents, sleeping-bags and other paraphernalia), and even a lot of surplus food (Korean War and later... (remember Government Cheese Bricks?) from our Military Spending.

Added to that, today, they have Air-force Flyovers, Corps of Engineers help, and God knows what else in the mix. They even have their own abandoned Army Base (which the Military still keeps up).

They also use HUGE tracts of Public land (Federal and State), free of Charge. (It's still "Public Land"... but most of us have to pay Camping Fees to use it, since we aren't the BSA !)

Conservative estimates put the Taxpayer load at well over $1 Billion/year. More accurate estimates put our Taxpayer Support at around $3 Billion !!!

Just because the SCOTUS has declared that the BSA is a "Private Organization", doesn't mean it IS one. And yet, individual Troops are forced to sell overpriced Chocolate-bars to the Public to make ends meet. I guess it's expensive to buy off the Supreme Court !!!

As an Eagle Scout with a gay brother who is also an Eagle Scout, both Order of the Arrow brotherhood members, I fully understand his symbolic decision.

BSA's membership policy will do more harm to America's boys than good. The Scout Law, Oath, and other tenants of scouting instills positive values and life-lessons in young men, and it's unfortunate that a policy of discrimination will prevent some young men from this experience.

Krestov

Unhappy-1583758

Criticizing companies who give money to take away rights and applauding companies who give money to expanding rights is not a double standard.

You can't equate something that will prevent rights as meritorious as something that will grant rights. It is like saying we should throw both the victim and perpetrator of a crime in prison.

Although we share the pro gay stance, I have to call you out on this point. It very much is a double standard. Saying it's okay because it expands rights vs limits them only opens the door for people to lobby for rights that shouldn't be granted as well. What if the Man-Boy love organizations managed to acquire enough cash to buy a few politicians? Would you feel the same way as long as the rights of pedophiles were expanded?

And judging whether or not a new law harms a whole group isn't always clear. It can be downright subjective!! Sometimes it isn't even foreseeable immediately. So your logic would need to hold water outside of the Gay rights argument too.

You are just as guilty here of seeing an action as okay as long as it falls in line with your personal beliefs. Making exceptions for your opinions isn't the correct route to compromise. That is simply forcing your belief down someone's throat in the other direction!

Corporate donations to politicians should not be allowed PERIOD. EVER. Shouldn't matter what their position is. It is the job of the masses to support their candidates, not the entitlement of a few rich guys sitting in their corner offices!

Any boy can earn the badge. The difficult part is actually being an Eagle Scout. The man chose not to be an Eagle scout. Turning in the badge is probably the right thing to do.

The article doesn't say IF this guy is a PICKELSNIFFER !

KaptainCrunch, that was hilarious and will probably be true! Spider737231, great comment. I agree the media is milking this whole "issue."

The argument is in circles, good luck everyone and remember it'll all change for equality it just might take some people some time to get over it.

This is different than CFA. The Boy Scouts 'claim' to be a private organization, but they still receive taxpayer support. CFA does not receive tax payer support on anything. If the Boy Scouts want to remain a private organization, that's fine. However, they receive NO federal funding/support at all.

It's ABout Time:

They recieve federal funding only in the form of being able to use public land( parks and recreation). Last I heard, gays were allowed to use it too. Along with the police dept, the fire dept, etc. It is not so one-sided as you claim. Their parents help pay taxes for that, so for you to say it is only for gays' use is wrong.

It is also a known fact, that most gays like to sue churches and other private organizations who don't conform to their beliefs. This is something the public is waking up to. We are not so naive as you might think, that we are not seeing a pattern.

Well i just can't agree, they were not born gay, it's a choice. And policy is a policy , a woman being in the boy scouts? to me that for boys now the girl scouts ok i'd rather be in the girl scouts where it's all girls. I'd be unconfortable for being in the boy scouts. I know some is going to have a say, oh well we are all in title too our say. God didn't make Adam and Steve he made Adam and Eve.

You know what gay people you have a million things that are gay that straight people dont try to muscle in on. Just @!$%# off and leave it be. Scouts are supposed to be a way to help teach boys things that MEN do. Building things, hunting, shooting. Its NOT a place for dancing and prancing around and looking at each others hair, butt, finger nails or fashion. Why do you think you have to be in EVERYTHING? Scouts is for sraight boys who want to grow up to do MAN things. If gays want to do some scouts thing may I suggest girls scouts? Or start your own gay scouts club where you can go do gay things. This isnt a homophobe thing, its not to exclude you, it IS to teach boys how to become men, not male women. The world has accepted gays, being gay is just fine, so stop trying to pollute non gay things with gayness. DO YOUR GAY THING AND LET US DO OUR STRAIGHT THING.

dclady

Some of you people really need a lesson on the differences between a pedophile and a homosexual.

There really isn't much difference except the receiver of the phallus is a minor. Gays have convinced themselves by fallacious logic and preached to themselves for long enough that they believe all the lies they peddle to justify their perversion.

The biggest thing the gays blatantly ignore in their arguments is that biologically speaking they are fighting an uphill battle against their own bodies. E-coli is the most glaringly obvious 'stop' sign in the equation, when you get a raging infection from it, you deserve it, you shouldn't be in that hole to begin with! That hole also is medically proven to not self lubricate and deliberate unnatural lubrication must be used to accommodate the activity. These things can never be changed, regardless of their arguments, beliefs or court rulings sympathetic to their activity.

To JohnnyOnTheSpot - I just want to throw this at you because you represent the majority of people who stereotype gays and pedophiles:

The link between pedophilia and homosexuality is completely unfounded. A 1998 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association notes one study that determined that 90 percent of pedophiles are men, and that 98 percent of these individuals are heterosexual. Michael Stevenson, Ph.D., a psychologist at Ball State University, explains this statistic by noting that "gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults." Stevenson observes that cases of pedophilia by adult lesbians are "almost non-existent." Two other major studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1 percent in one study and 0 percent in the other were lesbian or gay. These studies were published in Pediatrics and Archives of Sexual Behavior, respectively, two peer-reviewed, widely respected academic journals. Preventing gay men and lesbians from becoming adoptive parents or foster parents does not protect children from sexual abuse. It simply perpetuates anti-gay prejudice.

There is a common misunderstanding that the BSA is a wholly separate and private organization and receives no public support. These are the real facts:

CONGRESS:

The BSA was granted a Congressional charter in 1916, now codified as 36 U.S.C. Chapter 309,^[41] stating that their purpose is to:

promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

SUPREME COURT:

Desenting Stevens:

Stevens ended his dissent by noting that serious and "ancient" prejudices facing homosexuals could be aggravated by the "creation of a constitutional shield."^[19]

PRESIDENT:

Finally, since the founding of the BSA in 1910, thePresident of the United States has served as the organization's honorary president during his term in office.^[42]

The BSA is not wholly independent: it has a Congressional Charter; it has a Constitutional Shield as stated by Justice Stevens, and the President of the United States is the Honary President of the BSA: hardly an "Independent, private, organization."

A Scout is... Brave.

Agree with them or not, sending one's Eagle Scout badge back takes a lot of guts. If you aren't one, you might have a difficult time understanding. It would be like sending your childhood back. For me, it represents my relationship with my dad, every time I've slept outdoors, every meal I've cooked outside (and plenty I just ate there), the friends who understood, the faults I have overcome, the great people I have met, the stories they'll tell if you listen and the lessons I have learned. It is the bond that unites me with my brothers, with my mom, and my sister, too. It represents how I coped when I moved away. And it's a symbol of all the times I've been right and alone, profound regret for the all times I've been wrong and with company and a reminder to be humble because it's so easy to convince myself that I am right when I am actually dead wrong. A reminder I need to reflect on more often.

It isn't just about a badge. And no, I don't carry it around with me in my pocket. It isn't even in the same state as me right now. But anyone who says that these men are fools for doing this don't get it. Indeed, these men who have the guts to put that medal in an envelope with a note saying "return to sender" may be among the few who truly get it. I am not one of them because I cannot wrap my mind completely around the notion of sending it back.

This isn't about the rightness or wrongness about why they are doing what they are doing. This is about respect for their courage to do what they are doing.

The BSA holds to the same policy as it has for years. If he opposes BSA's policies, then why did he work so long and hard for his medals? The BSA hasn't changed, he did. And 60 returns out of millions of members isn't worth mentioning.

Unhappy-1583758--the BSA has received "sweetheart" deals from various governments for eons. In fact, when they lost those sweetheart deals due to their choice to discriminate, they sued to get them back.

I was under the impression that Boy Scouts were supposed to be trustworthy--there is no way in Hades that there are 50K boys, per year, achieving the rank of Eagle Scout. I would be terribly surprised if there were more than 50K boys of the right age to become Eagle Scout who are actually in the Boy Scouts--or, perhaps, every boy who is of the right age is now granted Eagle Scout rank automatically so that they can keep the number artificially high.

It has already been demonstrated that a great number of the boys theoretically in Boy Scouts, aren't. The leaders list children who aren't in the Scouts because if the United Way and other organizations that give them money found out how few children were in the groups, they wouldn't get a significant amount of money.

The BSA may very soon become extinct. Only people who are foolish enough to risk the future of their sons will put the son in the BSA. Within 20 years, it could become a badge of dishonor that would keep that son from being able to run for office, to achieve rank in many organizations, or even to get employed. The clearly evasive and hard-to-believe answers from the BSA make this extremely clear.

Look, the number of registered Cub Scouts (all of them) is only 1.5million (and a lot of that is already faked). Divide that by 5 (because Cub Scouts is a 5-year thing), and that's about 500,000 Cub Scouts per year. In 2010, there were only about 200,000 members between the ages of 14 and 20. Even if we presume that the majority cluster around the ages of 17 and 18 (when they become Eagle Scouts), there simply are not enough members in the Boy Scouts that 50K are becoming Eagle Scouts each year unless they suddenly started handing out Eagle Scout rank to every boy of the proper age.

Membership has dramatically declined (by 25%) and is continuing to go down. Very much like the conservative fundamentalist evangelical churches which admit to 0% growth (which means that they actually have negative growth), the BSA is going to at some point realize that people are voting with their feet.

I think it is fine for both BSA and Chick-fil-a to decide that they want to discriminate against gays or to give money to organizations that have encouraged the murder of gays in Africa. They can do that--it's legal. But, it is also fine for other people to, as they say, admonish anyone who would associate with either group. If it's fine for ya'll to "admonish" people for what you think it evil, it is fine for others to "admonish" you. You don't get to act without others getting to vote with their feet.

Chick-fil-a will enjoy a brief bit of extra business--and that's fine--but in the long run, they already know, this is going to cost them the ability to expand beyond the Deep South where bigots are thick on the ground. The BSA has been suffering for decades--and are already pretty well irrelevant. I still say that they can do as they please--but they can also deal with the ramifications.

I insist, however, that no taxpayer money goes to the BSA (and, yes, it still does in the South) if they are a "private organization based on religion." Until gay people can stop paying taxes, at least, no taxpayer money should go to them. Fair's fair. I thought that was what BSA stood for.

The Boy Scouts of America is one of the few organizations left in this country who is still trying to build strong character in our young people. Those in this discussion who have stated that people are born gay surely have been misinformed. Homosexuality is generated by environment and is not a hereditary trait. It is indeed a malfunction of behavioral characteristics brought on by a failure to correct certain actions during the preschool years. Discrimination you say? Then who or what is going to start demanding their rights next? The crossdressers? The degenerates who have sexual relations with toddlers? Maybe these people can complain that they have rights, too- under the heading of sexual preference. The BSA has been trying (successfully, I might add) to keep our young men focused on a wholesome, straight-forward way of life, and not to build a character that is contrary to the intended purpose of sexuality in the human species. As for the lesbian mothers of scouts, yes, I believe that they also should be banned from this organization due to their influences in the direction of homosexuality. You may think that my opinions are from the Dark Ages, but if we do not realize that homosexuality is a malfunction of human thought, then the door will open for other types of behaviors which are not of the norm to be accepted in our society.

@Phil-4041053

For someone who seems to hate gays, you sure seem to have a certain fascination with a certain 'hole'. And fun fact: there are actually certain nerve endings in that hole that cause, brace yourself, pleasure and make the 'hole' erogenous. So if this 'hole' that you talk about so much, wasn't meant for anything, why would there be such nerve endings there?

Homosexuality in the Pauline epistles

[edit] Romans 1:26-27

In the Epistle to the Romans 1:26-27 (English Majority Text Version, EMTV), Paul writes

“

For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

Timothy 1 1:9-10

King James Version (1611): "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"

Chad---you and what you support are SICK! Go ahead and live your perverted life. Enjoy.

dclady...thats just sick!

To everyone claiming that pedophilia and homosexuality are linked, that is not the case. Pedophilia is the attraction to youth regardless of gender, whereas homosexuality is attraction to phisically mature members of one's own gender.

It makes no more sense to have a gay male in the Boy Scouts as it does to have a straight female in the Boy Scouts. Know what I'm sayin'?

Come on, people, you're missing the point. Nobody cares if your gay or not... just don't shove it down our throats, yes? This INITIALLY originated from a gay CUB SCOUT Leader attempting to force 'normalness' of being gay to CUB Scouts. Not older BOY scouts. I have gay friends. Probably make great cub scout leaders, as long as they kept that crap to THEMSELVES! Tell me, exactly WHY should I have to explain what homosexuals are to my seven (7) or eight (8) year old son... because of some gay rights zealot conditioning my 8 year old, when, hell, let's face it, we should let the 8 year old be an 8 year old, and they should not even know about HETEROSEXUALITY at that age, much less homosexuality. There are homosexual scout leaders, always have been. The tolerance IS THERE for them... but not for the self aggrandizing, scream it from the rooftop freaks who think it is their right to let CHILDREN know about that private business, and allow this to run amuck. Seriously, for all of you people screaming how bad this is of the organization: do you REALLY want to explain male-male anal sex to your 8 year old son? Me, I believe you shouldn't even explain male-female sex to an 8 year old. Again, you're gay, your my kids scout leader... who cares? I certainly do not! But I have a huge 'bone of contention' that you are taking it upon yourself to 'parent' and 'educate' my 8 year old about homosexuality. They are 8! Let them be 8!

@ dclady: you wrote "

dclady

@Phil-4041053

For someone who seems to hate gays, you sure seem to have a certain fascination with a certain 'hole'. And fun fact: there are actually certain nerve endings in that hole that cause, brace yourself, pleasure and make the 'hole' erogenous. So if this 'hole' that you talk about so much, wasn't meant for anything, why would there be such nerve endings there?

Well, lady, my guess is that the nerves are there so that you can, on occassion, experience a really 'more than normally' pleasurable bowel movement. However, that's the perspective coming from a normal male. With your being female, and your self admission to the world that you find it "erogenous"... well... that's your right, but still doesn't give you the right to tell that to my 8 year old son, and get him all confused. Understand? There's always been gays in scouting. No problem, just keep it to yourselves, is all that's being asked of you.

Pedophilia is the attraction to youth regardless of gender, whereas homosexuality is attraction to phisically mature members of one's own gender.

I'm not certain that sounds believable. Most pedophiles appear to be attracted to children of a particular sex, not both sexes. Sandusky, for example, did not get involved with females - only males.

The only hate here is AGAINST the scouting program. The only intolerance is AGAINST the scouting's membership policy. The scouting program is heavily intertwined with one's religious beliefs. Despite the Supreme Court's ruling allowing a private organization to have it's own membership requirements, people continue to attack the scouting program for the principles that it teaches. If you don't understand that scouting is about teaching citizenship, leadership, and personal morality to teenage boys, then please give your Eagle award back, you don't deserve it in the first place.

To those that are angry with scouting or chick-fil-a, you need to take a step back and allow people to have their free speech and their opinions, even it if differs from yours. The LGBT community is the most intolerant group around. They will not allow anybody to freely have an opinion or belief that differs from theirs. Please be aware of your own bigotry and hate before you start calling out others.

ioh: do you understand irony?

The First Amendment protects against government censorship. BSA and CFA can say whatever the want, but in return, the public also has the right to agree or disagree as vocally as they like.

Only rebellious children, and in this case the rebellion is against God Almighty, throw a fit when the parents say,"No you can not do everything that comes into your head."

Eagle scouts of any merit should be able to understand fundamental authority and reasonable submission, along with a healthy dose of discipline.

Man is made in the image of God Almighty. Marriage is also clearly His design and is possible only with a union between one man and one woman.

Jesus Christ said this, so take it up with the Lord of ALL creation.

Boy Scout Oath

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

You throw the word "Bigot" around quite a bit. Please check the definition. If I don't agree that homosexuality is OK, by definition I'm not a bigot.

Bigot -

It would seem if we're human, we're bigots.

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Nope. Sorry MDRW-753848. You are a bigot. Live with it or CHANGE!

Herald - Jesus NEVER said anything of the sort. Look it up.

Herald....no one speaks for God except God.

he scouting program is heavily intertwined with one's religious beliefs.

Which is why half the time their ceremonies are based on pagan native American beliefs...real religious.

Good for these people to actually stand up for freedom and the American way even though the Boy Scouts won't...

rlr-570744

why are you such a bigot toward motherhood? are you a woman hater? apparently you feel that mothers are nothing more than a "body" to bear children since you imply that mothers bring nothing of value into raising kids and that any guy can take their place. That's a rather sad thought.

Personally, I feel sorry for any child that is raised without a mother's love and a father's love and support because they are missing something (or someone) very important.

I guess being a bigot toward motherhood is acceptable to you? Funny, how those who are so anti mother&father throw the word "bigot" around to those who disagree with them and yet refuse to see their own narrowmindedness and intolerance?

Yank their tax exemption. I am sick and tired of supporting ignorant, intolerant Taliban jerks like these people, the Catholic Church and every other tax exempt organization that uses MY MONEY to fight for stupidity and hate.

And ANYBODY that claims to speak for god is a LIAR. If god is so all-powerful, why can't he even SPEAK for himself? If god is so powerful, make the CHURCH and the BOY SCOUTS pay taxes JUST LIKE THE REST OF US. GOD will bail them out...

I love how people are trying to say that the LGBT community hatred towards intolerance is somehow intolerance. Sure, if you want to look at it that way, ok. It's fine for groups to have their own belief about whatever they want. Fighting for equal rights is less intolerant than fighting to control the lives of other people. A gay person says to an anti-gay person that they should be able to live their lives the way they want to live their lives, and that's intolerance? An anti-gay person says to every gay person out there that they should not be living their lives they way they are living them... THAT, is intolerance.

The LGBT community is not trying to tell other people how to live their lives. They are simply telling them to stay the hell out of their own lives, and stop trying to control what they are allowed to do with their own lives. How is trying to control someone else's life, NOT intolerant? Gay people can tolerate others not agreeing with their view. They are only intolerant of others' intolerance.

Only rebellious children, and in this case the rebellion is against God Almighty, throw a fit when the parents say,"No you can not do everything that comes into your head."

Eagle scouts of any merit should be able to understand fundamental authority and reasonable submission, along with a healthy dose of discipline.

Man is made in the image of God Almighty. Marriage is also clearly His design and is possible only with a union between one man and one woman.

Jesus Christ said this, so take it up with the Lord of ALL creation.

No one even said anything about gay marriage. This about whether or not the boyscouts are correct in their policy of keeping homosexuals out of their organization. Where in your precious bible does it say anything about discriminating against gays in this way? I thought Jesus said to treat others as you want to be treated. I am pretty sure the boyscouts currently in the organization wouldn't enjoy getting kicked out.

LeftLeaningLisa,

You can't see the intolerance of the LGBT community? I suggest you open your eyes.

Equal rights as in the ability not to be harrassed because of their lifestyles and choices and to live their life in peace then yes I agree with you. I believe everyone should live in peace without fear.

However, that's not what the LGBT community has been doing. You are not allowed to have the freedom to disagree with the LGBT community. You are not allowed to have freedom of religion if your religion disagrees with them. You are not allowed to have freedom of speech if what you say disagrees with them.

And of course, the LGBT community has been telling people how to live their lives - they are also telling people what to think and what to believe. And God help the person who publically expresses a PERSONAL opinion that doesn't agree with the LGBT community like the Cathy family - among others - did because then they are open to bullying and intimidation.

A church in Massachusetts that posted a sign giving their religious views of a man and a woman is a marriage was subjected to THREATS of harm and vandalism from the gay supports. So please, don't tell me that the LGBT community is not trying to tell people how to live their lives. Not only are they trying to tell people how to live, they are also telling them what to think and what to believe - OR ELSE.

Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are the first mentioned in the bill of rights which the gay community wants to suppress. how anti-American!

Since they like to throw the word "bigot" around, I suggest you look up the word "bully" because that is exactly what they have been doing.

Lisa, OK, if what you say is true, then the LGBT community isn't intolerant, but then, based on the comments here, its supporters are intolerant. Voicing an opinion that you feel that the gay lifestyle is wrong for whatever reason, isn't trying to control anybodies life. It's simply voicing an opinion and voicing that opinion will result in very hateful and intolerant responses from somewhere. If, as many say, the gay lifestyle is not a choice then it must be a result of genetics. If you accept that premise, why is it not possible that a revulsion of the gay life style is not a choice, but rather a genetic mechanism intended to ensure the propagation of the species? Both side are equally intolerant because it's genetically programmed.

SRS-798254:

If god is so all-powerful, why can't he even SPEAK for himself?

He did. And we thought His words so important, we wrote them down. They're in a book called the Bible. Every word is important - we don't get to pick and choose which parts we like and which parts we don't. It's an all-or-nothing deal. No one will force you to accept His word, not even God Himself. But don't expect God to accept you if you don't accept His word.

LeftLeaningLisa:

The LGBT community is not trying to tell other people how to live their lives.

Well, other than telling an organization what its membership policies should be.

How is trying to control someone else's life, NOT intolerant?

Indeed.

They are simply telling them to stay the hell out of their own lives, and stop trying to control what they are allowed to do with their own lives.

The BSA is not trying to control the LGBT community in any way. Maybe the LGBT community should, in turn, not try to control the BSA.

SRS, Taliban really, do any Liberals think before they speak. I know there has to be some out there

Does anyone think its strange that he was OK with their policies for his entire life up until now?

All this name calling Wow so I don't agree. I'm a Bigot. That Hurt. I'm a Homophobe too. That hurt. I guess can be called just about anything & it won't hurt my feelings. But one thing you can't call me is Queer. None of the names hurt my feelings & my butt don't hurt either.

John-

so every word in the Bible is important?

Do you follow the words about divorce being forbidden, as is shaving your beard, eating shrimp, having a tattoo, having sex when a women is having her period, and wearing polycotton?

My guess is you pick and choose as you see fit for you...

Everybody talks about what God said. My question is-- did anybody record it when He said something? Or was it a bunch of human males who, thousands of years later, decided to write a book. I doubt if any male thousands of years later actually heard the guy in the sky saying things-- so they wrote fictional stories. It does make for good reading if you are into fiction.

If they recorded Him saying things, I'd like to know what make tape player they used to do it-- and what brand of batteries. I need a good setup like that-- but make mine a CD for recording.

Susie,

Got that right except for the thousands of years later. It was hundreds of years later.

My take on the bible is that it is a human being generated document expressing what these humans thought or were told through verbal history of the events in religious history. It is not a text of the events as they happened by people who were there. Furture generations interpreted the bible in reference to the world at their time.

Question? Or should I say Query? Is Bill advocating for men with homosexual tendencies to be around teenage boys? Religion aside, I would say that would be like putting the Fox in the Hen-house. Temptation is more a human trait for those of you who don't believe in God. What's next; is there to be no distinction between men and women? There will be "No" seperation in clubs, groups, bathrooms, and showers.

Give the Badges back and move your ass along.

Also don't eat at my Chick Fil-A

Bob-2476682: Are you trying to say that all homosexual males are pedophiles, too? Last I checked, as a scout, you have to be "out" by the time of your 18th birthday. Granted, the legal age of consent is different in all states, but come on, now you're lumping homosexuals in with people who can't control their urges around children. No way, man.

As a former Scout, I understand where they're coming from, however, it doesn't make it right. The only policy the Boy Scouts should have as far as who can and can't be in it is are: age and gender. Are you trying to tell me that because you're gay, you can't be "morally straight?" Creed and sexual orientation should play no part. That is flat out discrimination on a level along with racism.

I am a straight, white, Roman Catholic male who understands that the Bible is meant to be a guide, not something to be taken literally. Use your brains people. This policy is just as ridiculous as the policy before it (of not allowing black males to be in Scouts) and I, for one, can't believe this is where our society is. Aren't we supposed to be more advanced than this?

Hey, Y'all eat all the chick Fil A you want! Obama care will take care of your heart disease!

If the boy scouts do not agree with your beliefs then leave them alone and let them have theirs . Start your own group if you think you can do more good than they do.

Wow Bob-2476682 ... way to go for the most absurd stereotype ever invented.

Contrary to popular belief, being gay doesn't turn you into a child molester. In fact, it is well known by anyone who looks at crime statistics, that the overwhelming majority of child molesters are straight guys.

Plus, among those child molesters who go after young boys, they aren't gay. Why would I say that? Because those sick individuals have no desire to have sex with consenting adult men. If they did, they'd be hooking up with said consenting adults. No, these sickos are only attracted to underage boys and girls.

So, don't be lumping gays into the same pile as child molesters and rapists. They are not even remotely the same. I say this as a victim of a child molester, so I KNOW that I know more about the subject than your bigoted arse ever will.

I did not imply anything about child molesters. What I stated was "A fox will only watch the chickens until he becomes hungry." It became apparent with the responses that I have received that some people do not realize I was pointing out a natural reaction would be aside from religion. Cynical and satirical are closely related. P.S. Stehen thinking you have lived a fuller life than myself is no reason to call me a bigot or anything else. I am not impressed with your exploits.

Chad, not everyone who does not approve of homosexuality is a Christian.

not everyone who disapproves does so out of hate and/or fear. Some simply find the lifestyle disgusting and would rather not even think about or see it.

It is only fair to remind Christians once again that cherry picking between old and new testaments is opening yourself up for logical questions. this however does not excuse the hypocritical intolerance on the part of those who "think" they are on a crusade to promote the same.

I'll say it for u. More HOMOSEXUALS are apt to be pedophiles than hetersoexual, that a FACT accoring to the NIH.

The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex offenders against children: an exploratory study.

Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually.

Also, why a FULL PAGE devoted tp 60 BOY SCOUTS in a country of 360 MILLION??? Becuase the LEFT has an agenda. And they will DO WHATEVER thay can to keep any story about homosexuals in then news.

Realist: Very well stated, there really is no logical response to it in defense of the hypocrisy.

Lisa, OK, if what you say is true, then the LGBT community isn't intolerant, but then, based on the comments here, its supporters are intolerant. Voicing an opinion that you feel that the gay lifestyle is wrong for whatever reason, isn't trying to control anybodies life. It's simply voicing an opinion and voicing that opinion will result in very hateful and intolerant responses from somewhere. If, as many say, the gay lifestyle is not a choice then it must be a result of genetics. If you accept that premise, why is it not possible that a revulsion of the gay life style is not a choice, but rather a genetic mechanism intended to ensure the propagation of the species? Both side are equally intolerant because it's genetically programmed.

Daryl: I pondered a seanario out loud. I made no judgement whether it was right only a sequence of events that might happen if it came to pass. Again it was on the Naturalist level at which I thought.

That would be scenario above. The other is a band in Calf.

Boys are molested at a much higher rate than girls and almost all Pedophiles are male.

So, how is it that a male pedophile, having sex with a boy is not a homosexual or having sex with girl would not be a heterosexual? Possibly bi-sexual at best............

Its an easy distinction, think of it as; A goat is an animal, but not all animals are goats. It's like saying if your a heterosexual you molest little girls. A pedophile may also be homosexual, but not all homosexuals are pedophiles. See, two different things.

Ponderthis

not everyone who disapproves does so out of hate and/or fear. Some simply find the lifestyle disgusting and would rather not even think about or see it

That seems pretty close to hate and fear, certainly ignorance unless perhaps they were doing "it" on your doorstep.

It's called tolerance, people. You don't have to like it but you shouldn't take away the rights of another group just because you don't like them. Hell, if anyone on this page, extreme left or extreme right, ran this country then we'd all be boned because we'd either be smug hippy idiots or roving gangs of skinheads, respectively.

SRS-798254

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Nope. Sorry MDRW-753848. You are a bigot. Live with it or CHANGE!

Uh, you are wrong yourself. Disagreeing with someone does not make you obstinate or intolerant. It is YOU who are twisting the terms around.

“It is not an easy thing to give up your Eagle. It sounds silly, but it’s very emotional, you know, if you’ve been in Scouts as long as most of us guys have … it just means a lot,” DeVos, an architect from Rochester, told NBC News. “But it’s more important for it (the badge) to do something good for others … I can look at it and be sentimental about it, but it’s what it does for others that means more.”

Bill De Vos, stop sniffling like a little beech because nobody gives a flying rip that you turned in your medal. You knew when you joined the scouts that certain behavior was not permitted. In fact, you took an oath by raising your right hand and speaking those sacred words about god, country, flag, etc... You cannot have gay men teaching scouting to boys in their teens. Just looked what happened in Portland, Oregon where they said the mayor groomed a 17 yr old boy for his future toy. It is bad enough that the public and scouting as a whole has to worry about pedophiles in the mix, now you want open homosexuals to be allowed. And since they cannot be allowed to join, you get your sissy-ass feelings hurt. Well isn’t that too damn bad. Remember, it is a private club that is open to public membership on their terms. Now that you got your three minutes of fame and no one really cares now what?

Realist-1226632, oh, please.

Let us say that Bob, the KKK leader and restaurant owner, says that blacks are subhuman and he will not allow them into his business. Let us say that I tell Bob that his views are repugnant and call on others not to frequent his place of business in order to make the point.

I am a bully? I am intolerant?

The mentality of the conservative right wing now is to play with words--they are "Christian" and "religious," but people of other religions who believe in Christ and are tolerant of gay people are not. They are being "oppressed" when they are told that they cannot openly discriminate against others. They can lie (saying that gay people are pedophiles, which they are not), they can cheat (saying that they believe in the literal word of the Bible, but then promoting the acquisition of wealth as well as tolerating repeated divorce and infidelity), and they can steal (taking money from the government to provide services as an arm of the government, theoretically to all comers, but then refusing to provide services to everyone because of their own easily damaged faith which must be protected).

Look through this thread--people who are gay are called pedophiles (which they aren't), comparable to those who favor beastiality (which is legal in many states, by the way), and everyone assumes that they engage in anal sex (only about 45% of gay men prefer anal sex) which is in some way "dirtier" than what straight people do (about 45% of straight men have anal sex). Heck, people assume that only gay men have sex with other men (about 25% of all men report having had sex with other men, though only about 4% are gay--meaning that there's a good bit of straight males engagin gin man-on-man sex). But, admonish an anti-gay person, and all of a sudden, that person is being picked on.

Apparently, then, the only way that one can call oneself "tolerant" is to stand by why people who are anti-gay lie. If I call you on your lies, then I'm not being "tolerant."

Fine--I do not suffer fools gladly, and I will not tolerate a liar. You can call me intolerant all you want--but you cannot call yourself oppressed, nor a truthteller, nor a true Christian. Have a great day.

Did you know that discrimination is a part of the human experience?

When we get a speeding ticket from the police, is this discrimination if we are guilty? You might argue that it is, since none speeders don't receive speeding tickets. Without standards for society, anarchy and lawlessness results.

God Almighty discriminates between good and evil. We take our standards from Him, not from human beings that are driven by emotion.

America can get back on track when more Americans love the truth more than themselves.

America used to love the Truth more than tolerance. Now the reverse is the new norm.

God created gays. God does not discriminate. Why do the Scouts discriminate?

I know eric,

Only an imaginary god would create gays then punish them for being gay...sounds more like a power hungry oppressive person than a god

Because they want to. You have the freedom of association and on the flip side of that coin is freedom to not associate.

herald9:

YOU are the intolerant one. Non-religious people tolerate others that are different. "RELIGIOUS" people hate them.

DISGUSTING. yank the tax exemption from all churches. I am sick and tired of paying for these ignorant haters!

herald- you pretend to know the "Truth"

You are so, so wrong.

Only truth and equality are true.

SRS, I know a few non religious people who don't care for gays, and I know a lot of religious people who do. You need to get out more,and take the blinders off

And I also know a TON of religious people who follow the love thy neighbor and Judge not rules and love gay people as they are.

And I have heard of a lot of religious people who follow the "love thy neighbor"-- and the neighbor ends up losing his wife to the religious guy who scratched her itch. Yes, he loved his neighbor alright.

I guess it all depends on which part of the bible you want to follow.

If you take the bible verse by verse you can make it say whatever you want it to. Does that mean we do not need to read it? I would say NO! We need to read it all and pray and ask God for guidance on what we need to take from it and use it in our lives. I think all of us are being punished because we do not read the bible more. Read the bible and pray for Gods help. He will be there for you. Give it a try.

Evidently, God's phone and internet connection has been down for over 2 millenia. Really needs to get a new service provider.

I am a Christian, and I have no problem with gays. In fact, I work with a gay man and I get along great with him.

Kj, then I guess that makes you a true Christian. Not a lot of those around.

Annefl - Tell that to women in some states who can't make decisions about their own bodies without faith-driven lunatics meddling.

Daryly, are you saying that because The Boy Scouts of America have a different view or opinion than you or the Gays and Lesbians - they area against free speech?

Why are you and the gays trying to change their policies when they only affect those who are part of the organization- which NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO JOIN?

Are they keeping you and the gays (maybe one in the same) from starting your own youth organization or joining another?

Protesting is inherently a hateful action. Be aware that anger and bitterness doesn't follow good behavior.

ioh, I was taken aback at your comment about protesting being an "inherently a hateful action," because it did not make a bit of sense. Do you live in a world that is perfect and treats all fairly? Say those words to Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Lech Walesa and to the millions people their protesting helped......non-violent direct action has been a great tool in protesting injustices all around the world.

Great. I will protect your freedom of speech BUT DON'T MAKE ME PAY FOR IT. If you want to spew hatred, do it on your own dime. Don't claim a tax exemption and MAKE ME PAY FOR IT!

How about no tax exemptions for anyone for any reason at all. Why does anyone deserve to not pay their fair share?

Sandy, I agree with you, ioh needs to clarify his comment, I recall protesting ardently as a kid about eating my liver

Ann,

The real issue here is that we can't seem to peacefully respect other peoples right to an opinion any longer.

SRS,

Calm down some, you're not paying for anything if you did not write a check to them. In contrast, BSA is just NOT being forced to pay your welfare check. I hope for your sake that no gay groups receive government money or tax breaks to function. That would just mess up your argument.

Everyone else,

When will gays stop hating everyone who holds a different opinion than them? It seems we would have more productive conversations if everyone would stop being so ignorant and nasty about these topics.

Protest by a group being discriminated against is how society has evolved all over the world.

Even America grew out of protest against British treatment. Remember the real Boston Tea Party?

Are you saying our founding fathers were hateful?

I love how so many thing that the first amendment basically protects everything they want to say or do. In fact Free speech is limited. For example Hate speech is not protected under the first amendment. Religious practices that interfere with the basic rights of others are also not protected. The first amendment only guarantees that the government will enact no laws that prohibit the practice of religion. Example, Gay marriage does not prevent anyone from practicing Christianity. One may disdain the practice and has every right to voice their disdain, ala Chick Fil A.

This applies to all companies and organizations operating within US Constitutional jurisdictions, and is not only applicable to organizations that receive government support. Select membership in religious churches is the one arena that, so far has not been challenged, but this only applies to recognized "religions and churches". Boy Scouts are not a religion, or church, and have no right to discriminate. If you support discrimination in any form, you open yourself to being discriminated against. Imagine in another Universe, Obama is secretly a Muslin and trying to force Muslim law on the United States. It is the Constitution that will protect all non-Muslims from this attempt.

daryl,

Hate speech is indeed covered in some circumstance other than coercing others into violent act etc..

"Limitations to freedom of speech may follow the "harm principle" or the "offense principle", for example in the case of pornography, religious belief or hate speech." ref. Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. 17 April 2008. Also see Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).

Granted however not all hate speech violates constitutional rights.

..........Until everybody is a homosexual , they will never be satisfied.......

Just imagine, ..two Eagle Scouts married to each other and having a bunch of little cubs at home...."playing" with one another...sickening !

What the He!!?

When will gays stop hating everyone who holds a different opinion than them? It seems we would have more productive conversations if everyone would stop being so ignorant and nasty about these topics.

in the middle-2260511 - Because that is what they are and how they are "bigots" to the core of their pathetic soul! I am never surprised at the hate they spout off when someone or group disagrees with them on marriage or openly gay topics. If you read this blog and others you will notice when dealing with homosexuality topics you get a flood of bigoted comments from the gays and their supporters. It is like the pot calling the kettle black. Gay bigots are calling you intolerant because you refuse to budge on your individual principles and values. You cannot change their irrational belief system that thinks they are normal and we are abnormal in our way of living and thinking. So by making you feel guilty about your sacred and so-called outdated values they go on the attack. The trick is to get you to eventually cave in to their belief system. There is nothing worse on this planet to them than not having their lifestyle be acceptable as normal behavior.

Remember, acceptance to them is everything; they do not like to be judge by those outside their value system. That is understandable since children fight all their life for acceptance in society whether it is work, friends, family or combination of all three. To be gay is equally hard if you cannot understand how and why it happened - just that it happened and there is no turning back. It is a double edged sword in that they did not ask to be gay, but since they are who are we to judge! It is Catch 22 that never ends. As for the gay marriage situation, there really needs to be one federal law making it legal or illegal throughout the land. You cannot have individual States making up their own rules. Once this has been done, perhaps, we all can have peace at last.

It's equality - Equality is not and never should be considered "political correctness"... it is the law.

PS - In my mind, "nothing against homosexuals" means "Ick, homosexuals." It's like saying, "I'm not racist; I have several black friends."

There's a big difference between the blacks not being able to join the BSA and the gays. The blacks are a race, and gays choose a lifestyle to live that way, and yes, it is a choice, not a race.

If someone is so willing to give theirs up for what amounts to being politically correct for the times we are in, then it must not have been that important to begin with. You probably shouldn't have been in there in the first place.

Or, perhaps he is willing to give up his medal because despite the fact that his Eagle was immensely important to him to begin with, standing up for what he believes is right is even more important.

No stretch, homosexaulity is NOT a choice. That is what the evidence supports and there is no credible evidence disproving it.

Great logic. Segregation was in place for decades too. Does that make it RIGHT?

Equality is NOT the law for anyone else other than the government. The government is to be blind. The people can do what ever the hell they want. I don't have to let anyone on my property, in my house, my club, etc. Neither do private organizations and I would argue neither do any other companies unless they are agents of the government. unforutnatly we don't respect freedom in america. The first amendment is a two way street yet many people only like it if you're on their side of the street.

I don't understand the bigotry towards gays but I'll fight tooth and nail for someones right to be a huge bigot, even if it is against me and my kind. The only exception is if the government is involved. They have zero right to be bigoted and any agent of the government must follow that in the execution of their official duties.

Segregation was illegal because the government must see all men as equal. It wasn't illegal if any other entity did it and it shouldn't be illegal today except by the government. I don't see many businesses going too far if they ban blacks or latinos or whites or .... We have a inherant inaliangable right to not want to associate with others no matter how stupid we are for doing so.

Stretch- you may claim that blacks and gays are different, yet the BSA had the exact same policy--forbid them.

luckydog:: So the name they call themselves, BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA, is a LIE! It should be Boy Scouts of Heterosexual America.

Homosexuals are a part of America, like it or not. So if they aren't allowed to be a part of an organization that other boys can belong to, then that organization is discriminatory and bigoted.

Totally agree w/you daryl. You can't keep out a protected class of people and then be tax exempt. If you want to keep them out fine, but pay all taxes on everything you own and every bit of income you make.

stretch222 when did you make the choice to be straight? What about in other animals? Do they make a choice too? You don't know what your saying.

Ted,

While you do have the right to keep anyone off your personal property, many other public an private organizations are subject to federal anti-discrimination laws. Many "private" clubs that only allowed men as members have been challenged due to gender discrimination. Same with minorities and sexual preference. Many have lost. Anti-discrimination laws do not just effect the government. All US private employers are also subject to anti-discrimination laws. Go check out the multitude of case law on the matter.

Greg-2438150 - For the record, I do not think it is a choice in 95 percent of the cases on being gay. Science is now saying that evidence leads them to believe that whatever causes it, the womb and the outside environment may determine homosexuality. But what the hell do I know!

agreed

Scouts are reverent... Please do not confuse that with having a belief in the bible. I earned my Eagle in 1976, I was not a Christian then. I'm not one now, but I am reverent. BTW the isn't an admonishment on homosexuality in all religions either. Just saying. My medallions are with my parents, or they'd be going back. This discrimination isn't what I learned in Scouting. It certainly isn't what I wan my grandchildren to learn.

They claim to believe the Bible but many ignore the things that are forbidden: divorce, shaving beards, having tattoos, eating shrimp, wearing polycotton, etc.

They pick and choose.

Sure, don't participate if you're not allowed, but they must be ridiculed just like groups that used to not allow women and blacks...

mojo--I agree with you 100%. And I am not against homosexuals. I do not hate homosexuals. I do not however, approve of their practices. Do not put words in my mouth that i do not say or endorse (not speaking to you, mojo). Just because I do not approve of something does not mean i hate it. I applaud Mr Cathy and the boy scouts for their public positions. And by the way yesterday went, I'm only one among millions.

Because you can't have a lifestyle and an agenda based on the way you were born.

Because - for the same reason girls are not allowed to go camping with boys.

So you say thenamesdave, not much evidence of that except for a few tilted studies. Putting that difference of opinion aside. I wouldn't want my son in the scouts with a gay leader regardless of whether a person was born that way or chose to live a lifestyle. People are born with schizophrenia, and I wouldn't want my son to have a leader suffering from that either.

@ioh

"But then liberals have generally never been good with math and science."

You must be joking. Conservatives are the ones lacking the skills of logic and observation.

Source: http://www.livescience.com/14950-state-science-education-ranks-announced.html

Ioh, I think you got that wrong. It's the conservatives who want evolution stripped from the textbooks and want creation science in. It's conservatives who refute any notion of climate change. It's conservatives who are quick to quote the Bible to prove their point. Sorry, you lose that argument.

There are 11 states above average and you some how think that translates into conservatives lacking logic?

What? You do realize most of NY state, Ill, Minn, virgina, maine, new hampire and vermont and even NJ is republican right? Only MD is mostly democrat..

Ted-

Your claim: New York, Illinois, Minnesota, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, and New Jersey are "mostly republican"

By what measure? Do you live in an alternate universe?

These states have more registered democrats than republicans, and majorities in all of these states vote for Democratic Presidential candidates.

Why do you think these states have mostly republicans living in them?

Nearly all of the states with the worst science and math results are in the deep red south. Would you like to claim that most of the south is full of democrats?

Oh my god. The area of the state itself ( you know school districts) are mostly republican leaning (and by a lot)

Why is it that so many ignorant people have to be democrat?

Take the freaking time to google before you post.

http://mattstil.es/images/nysenate-party.png

It is you who is confused, Ted. Those maps show geographical districts. The large red swatches do not mean there are more republicans in the state than democrats. They show that the vastly underpopulated areas of most states are the places where conservatives live. You know, the boonies.

Typically, large population centers, places where people are forced to interact with each other and it is harder to avoid information, tend to be Democratic.

There are more democrats in New York, by far, than republicans, and that goes for all the other states we are discussing. The democrats mostly live in cities, while republicans, on average, tend to live in more rural areas where the space between people is much greater. That is what you are looking at when you see a red map of New York districts.

Do you still think there are more republicans in New York than democrats? We are talking about actual people, that can be tested on math and science, not "republican acreage".

Did I ever say most of the people are republicans or did I say most of the state is republican. Yeah I think I said state. I'm not confused at all, you just can't read english, got it.

All those vast swatches of virginia and Ny are they not in the same state? Oh yeah they are, are they not testing higher? Oh yeah.. Funny how that works.. but to you its NYC that making the difference. Hum.. here sort by city and then realize that the red areas are ranking higher in NY state and then STFU..

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/NY/schoolrank.aspx

oh yeah and get off of the first page before you start jumping up and down making claims. NY state rural schools far exceed the national average while NYC schools do far worse than average and that's by per cap. Why is that? hum maybe because in the most populated parts of NYC you wouldn't want to walk.

It's conservatives who refute any notion of climate change.

Conservatives DO NOT refute the notion of climate change, they DO question whether it is a man-made phenomenon or part of the naturally occurring cycle of the planet.

Conservatives don't refute Climate change????? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Of course they do and they have for the last decade.

Now that climate change is irrefutable, the line is becoming, "It's here but it's not manmade...."

Thank you for posting a source that supports my position so fully.

Top ten schools in math and science on the list from New York State:

9 out of 10 are in New York City or in democratic districts adjacent to New York City

Worst schools for Math and science in New York State(ranks #2281-2287)

All of them are from Rochester and Buffalo - Republican districts

The link you provided goes even further than that to prove you are incorrect. If you click on any on the cities listed in the rankings a map will appear on the bottom of the page. If you zoom out on the map to show the whole state of New York the view then shows a "Heat Map" showing the highest concentrations of high scores in math and Science in the state. It looks like New York City is on fire, while the rest of the state is nearly empty.

Ready to concede? Or shall I post a screenshot of the heat map?

ioh and youenjoymyself, I guess I'm glad I'm an Independent and would explain why I'm good at both. There's room for both of you in the sandbox

Ted:: "Did I ever say most of the people are republicans or did I say most of the state is republican. Yeah I think I said state".

How can a STATE be republican and the people not be? I think YOU are confused-- you don't know that PEOPLE are the ones who populate a state.

Childish personal sniping Daryl. Please do better if you wish yo be taken seriously.

Bart, a NATURAL change in the climate would logically be in the same direction, colder , hotter etc.

The weather all over the world has been completely erratic and is increasingly so. It is caused by humanity .

If this continues, and there is no evidence to suggest that it will return to normal, then inevitable the crop failures will become critical...

If and when the food runs out, we will see just how far "WE" have come as a species. There are always comments made about how much more "evolved" the left is than the right..... When mass famine sets in and the thin veneer of civilization is stripped away from EVERYONE, including your highly advanced "US", you will see just how close we ALL are to being much worse than the knuckle dragging beasts you consider those who hold perspectives which differ from your own to be..

All of these issues you are so passionate about now will be meaningless as you pillage your own community for food for your "own" and defend to the death your newer slimmed down "US" against the resurgent, and much more plentiful and diversified "THEM"...

whoo-ahh not every conservative is a follower of organized money sponging cabals.. also known as organized religion. Don't stereotype is makes you a hypocrite black-belt notwithstanding.

I agree. I am an Eagle scout. NEVER, not once did that discussion come up. I look back and I believe we may have had some boys may have been gay. No one cared. We were busy with more important things at that time.

Actually, it's the BSA that implemented the no gays rules. Gays don't want attention, they just want equal rights.

If you want gays to shut up, what are they supposed to say to the question, "What are you doing this weekend?" If it's going out on a date, should they LIE? Lying isn't something the BSA should condone.

It was the same with the military's DADT--it made gays lie everyday.

Bart......really?????......no, they want the attention.....and your post is proof of it.....just go on your date and shut up because no one really cares if you're gay, just that you don't need to remind everyone of it every two minutes.....your sexual proclivities do not belong as a topic in a BSA meeting.....expand your narrow mindedness.....

Bart Conner, there are all kinds of organizations that don't allow this or that, find one that does and join that. Nothing to do with equal rights

so when the BSA forbid blacks, would that have been your answer: go find another organization?

Suppose they said, no one from NYC allowed or no one with the name "lee"
allowed--you guys would be whining up a storm!

What other organizations don't allow gays, please educate us...

wlee:: WTF do you mean by :nothing to do with equal rights"? It has EVERYTHING to do with equal rights. A gay person as just as much right to live on this planet, in this country, as you do-- and by denying them the right to belong to an organization that claims to be Boy Scouts OF AMERICA is just a bunch of crap. Those boys belong to America-- at least they have since I can remember. Bet I can remember homosexual boys belonging in America a few years longer than you can.

They can join the military, fight and die for this country-- but they aren't good enough to belong to an organization that claims it is for boys of America. BTW-- there have been gays in the military for years and years.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there weren't "diddling" going on between straight scout leaders and some of the boys.

It's still a PRIVATE organization. It's their own business. It's the "Boy" Scouts, the people who do not wish their children to be around homosexuals have that right.

Just start an LGBT Scouts of America and then everyone should be satisfied, that is, unless they are trying to exercise so much "freedom" that their own "freedom" impinges upon the "freedom" of another.....

This attitude is just evidence that the anti-equality movement is losing, and losing BAD. Enjoy the last few years of legalized bigotry in this country Dick. They're running short.

No, Toasty McGrath it's why people have attitudes like Dick's. They are constantly called bigots and intolerant because they think the homosexual lifestyle is wrong and get tired of having the agenda shoved down their throats (no pun intended). Just because I don't agree with you does not make me a bigot or intolerant--please check your dictionary.

I think a good point was made when one person commented that it's the same reason boys and girls don't camp together. Can you imagine if a straight man was allowed to camp and shower with the girl scouts? Give me a break.

There is no "anti-equality movement." If there is any movement, it is from a bunch of whining, attention grabbers that can't stand that there are people and groups out there that have different beliefs and opinions.

Read a bit of of history and see what happened to the ancient greeks because of their gay movement. See how that worked for them. Same gender attraction isn't new, and always leads to demise of a civilization. Enjoy that movement as long as it lasts.

bigotry has always been legal, Don't like blacks joing the KKK don't like whites join the panthers. Nothing will ever change the inalienable right to be a bigot.

We don't want people with sexual attraction to others in the group to be together with children. PERIOD. That's why we don't let boys go into the girls bathroom or showers.

I wonder if you called blacks and women attention grabbing whiners when they fought for equal rights?

my opinion1

LeftLeaningLisa,

You can't see the intolerance of the LGBT community? I suggest you open your eyes.

Equal rights as in the ability not to be harrassed because of their lifestyles and choices and to live their life in peace then yes I agree with you. I believe everyone should live in peace without fear.

However, that's not what the LGBT community has been doing. You are not allowed to have the freedom to disagree with the LGBT community. You are not allowed to have freedom of religion if your religion disagrees with them. You are not allowed to have freedom of speech if what you say disagrees with them.

And of course, the LGBT community has been telling people how to live their lives - they are also telling people what to think and what to believe. And God help the person who publically expresses a PERSONAL opinion that doesn't agree with the LGBT community like the Cathy family - among others - did because then they are open to bullying and intimidation.

A church in Massachusetts that posted a sign giving their religious views of a man and a woman is a marriage was subjected to THREATS of harm and vandalism from the gay supports. So please, don't tell me that the LGBT community is not trying to tell people how to live their lives. Not only are they trying to tell people how to live, they are also telling them what to think and what to believe - OR ELSE.

Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are the first mentioned in the bill of rights which the gay community wants to suppress. how anti-American!

Since they like to throw the word "bigot" around, I suggest you look up the word "bully" because that is exactly what they have been doing.

Back then, it was dangerous to be out of the closet. Now that the world has moved towards equality, BSA should too or become obsolete.

Also, he was a boy at the time. He might not have understood the situation or formed an opinion on the matter, yet.

Exactly. He was a boy and that is the body of the BSA. Boys. They haven't formed an opinion and you should make it as neutral as possible for them.

And therein lies the truth of homosexuality, "They are just boys, and haven't formed an OPINION yet."

If fags were born that way, they wouldn't need to form an opinion. I rest my case!

No, jim. I meant he hadn't formed an opinion on injustice and civil rights. Don't be absurd.

But having straight women is just fine? Most of my den leaders were women.

Steve--that was in the Weblos or however you spell it. Not the scouts.

Have you seen all the reports of straight women teachers having affairs with their students???

Don't blame gays for something straights do far more.

Homosexuality and pedophelia are two different things. If you really, in this day and age, think all gay men are pedophiles, then you are less than uneducated.

don't lie yourself !

They have a right to set their own rules and we have a right to disagree vehemently. There's nothing in the Constitution that says people have to respect someone's stance, just that the government can't stop them from having it.

There is your problem, Steve...you don't respect others. If you don't respect the rights of others who think you are wrong, how do you think others will respect you. No respect = hatred. Hatred = dehumanization. Dehumanization = murder. It's funny...all of you gays dole out the mantra of tolerance...you actually have none!

If they are a private organization they should quit accepting federal dollars.

@Peter Jenkins from WA

^ Why can't gays be more tolerant about my intolerance? WAAAAAAAAH!

Black Man: Why can't you be more tolerant and let me be who I am?

KKK: You are a bigot for not being more tolerant of my position that you are less than human.

Whoa.. When did the BSA say gays are less than human.. Strawman..

As a private organization the Boy Scouts can pick and choose their membership but if membership is not open to all boys then they should receive no federal assistance. By receiving government assistance they would be getting monies from the people who they barre. I don't want my tax dollars to fund an organization that discriminates against a segment of the population.

The fact that BSA discriminated directly means gays "are not the same and are less than." So, if you believe this country is based on us all being created equal, they must be subhuman.

Blacks had to deal with the exact same nonsense for centuries.

nikki:: Then they should change the name of this private organization to reflect the true nature of it-- the Bigot Scouts of America.

You are funny Peter....you call people who disagree with you disrespectful, intolerant and hate-filled and you then make a nasty gay joke that shows your true colors.

I would like to quote you, with one small change..."No respect = hatred. Hatred = dehumanization. Dehumanization = murder. It's funny...all of you gay bashers dole out the mantra of tolerance...you actually have none!"

joe:: The Girl Scouts of America is NOT a bigoted organization. Unlike the Bigoted Scouts of America.

Yes VBD. How about that group called the association of Man Boy Lovers (not sure I got it right on the name, but yes they exist) I guess you think their "Lifestyle" is OK too?

People shouldn't be allowed to choose any lifestyle they like. I guess you're ok with Jeffrey Dahmler's lifestyle too?

Give me a break?

Peter and MDRW until you two can demonstrate informed consent you don't have points.

Peter, is your dog able to understand your intent? And most importantly, is your dog able to give his/her consent? That argument is an absolute failure and anyone who brings it up demonstrates an absolute unwillingness to have a reasoned debate.

Religion is a lifestyle choice. Being gay is not.

MDRW:: At least that organization clearly states just who it is for-- not like the Boy Scouts of America, who makes people believe it is for "boys OF AMERICA". When in reality it shouold be the BSA-- Bigoted Scouts of America.

If a boy lives in America, he is a "boy of America"-- he is just as good as any other boy in America. Heck, he is just as good as the Romney boys.

Peter:: You want to have sex with your dog and marry HIM? Isn't that homosexual tendencies? Hope when you do he bites the crap out of you-- kinda destroys your brain.

Hummmmm seems to Me someone changed Sanduskys life style

I think it's childish that the BSA won't accept gays just as it was when they wouldn't accept blacks.

Prejudice is prejudice.

You're blaming those who are being discriminated against just because they're complaining. I bet if you weren't allowed something just because of the way you are, you'd be complaining too.

I have never been denied anything my entire life. I'm gay. I keep that to myself and my partner of 20 years except with a very small group of close friends. We are blissfully happy and do not feel the need to carry on like the homosexuals do these days. They are mad because the boy scouts won't let them join. They don't want to eat at Chik-Fil-A. This is all just idiocy.

Nothwithstanding the freedoms previously discussed, I honestly do not wish to go around announcing my sexual preferences, positions or anything AND I don't care what anyone else does. That is the most distasteful thing a person could do and it isn't my business. Mostly children don't need to know about it. They don't even grasp how babies get in mommies' bellies. HELLO! Why does this have to have anything to do with scouting? Or anything. It is someone personal choice. There is nothing wrong with your choice but enough with the coming out and exposing so children can't even join in on scouting.

If someone feels strongly about turning in their badges then that's there business. It is their right but don't destroy something that millions of boys have enjoyed people. Scouting.

Because they are TWITS!

@jammatmil I agree - If they don't like the BSA because of it's stance on gays let them start their own organization allowing gays. What's the problem? Use the BSA's basic principles but allow gays. LGBT can get these people who send back their badges to run it - they have been in the BSA along time. And as some people are saying get with the 21st century and change I disagree - only 42 states allow same sex marriages and even the ones that allow it get challenged and voted down - the majority of the country does not want same sex marriage as the media and Liberals would like you to believe.

I disagree. The majority of this country has no problem with same sex marriage. You know what is so interesting....the history of marriage. Marriage was done by match makers. Women were pieces of property, sold and bargained for. (Still done in many countries) Women had to marry because they could not own property nor work so were totally dependent on the males in the family or community. Only in the last half centruy, were people actually marrying for love and companionship. So the glory of marriage is not all what the Christians are telling us.

Americanway:: Then the BSA should rename themselves-- Bigoted Scouts of America. The way they have it now, the organization is for BOYS OF AMERICA. And that is a bunch of crap. A boy down the street, for instance, lives in America and is a boy of America. So why can't he belong to the same organization that my neighbors' son belongs to? Because that organization is bigoted.

Following the bible and God's law is not a bigot attitude. Forcing everyone to believe the way they want you to believe or tolerate even if it goes against one's believe is a bigoted attitude. If I believe Gays/Lesbians bi-sexuals are living in perpetual sin that will lead to dam*tion it is my right.