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Pastor Jack Schaap's profile has been removed from the web site of the First Baptist Church.
CHICAGO - The former pastor of an Indiana Baptist megachurch is being investigated for sexual relations with a teenage girl, and the church is cooperating with authorities probing whether any of the behavior was criminal, a church official said Thursday.
Jack Schaap, 54, pastor for 11 years at the First Baptist Church of Hammond, confessed to having sex with a member of the church when she was 16, said Eddie Wilson, director of public relations for the church.
The church, located in the Chicago metropolitan area, has 40,000 members and typically has 15,000 people in church on any given Sunday, Wilson said.
Adultery is grounds for dismissal under the church's bylaws, and Schaap was fired on Monday following an internal investigation, Wilson said. Schaap and his wife are trying to reconcile their marriage, he said.
The age of consent in Indiana is 16. FBI became involved because Schaap is accused of taking girl across state lines to Illinois -- where the consent age is 17 -- when she was 16, NBCChicago.com reported.
"It was starting to be a difficult decision, but when we found out the facts, we had no choice. We had to do what was right," the NBC affiliate quoted Board of Deacons Chairman Jerry Duff as saying.
The deacon's board reported the information to Lake County Sheriff John Buncich first thing Tuesday morning, Wilson said. Buncich was not immediately available for comment.
Watch US News videos on NBCNews.com
Schaap, who could not be reached for comment, had been employed by the church and associated Hyles-Anderson College for about 30 years, Wilson said. Wilson said the ex-pastor was "in seclusion" with his wife, Wilson told Reuters.
Schaap's wife is the daughter of Jack Hyles, the pastor who built the church, NBCChicago reported.
Trisha Kee, who said she is a victim advocate for people abused at Independent Fundamental Baptist churches and had attended Hyles-Anderson College, told Reuters that Schaap's behavior was discovered accidentally at a youth conference last week.
More on this story from NBC 5 Chicago
She said Schaap left his phone on the pulpit. A deacon found it, and a text came through from the girl that revealed the relationship, said Kee, who runs a Facebook group for ex-congregants.
One parishioner told NBCChicago that while he was heartbroken he would not hold a grudge against his leader.
"I know God put him in that position for a reason and what he did is a mistake, and God will forgive him," parishioner Jesus Perez said.
Reuters and NBC News staff contributed to this report.
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Look out for the bible thumper scum! Good example of a Christian.
What a disgrace in a religion that preaches such reverence for the bible.
Power corrupts. Organized religion concentrates power and uses a person's faith as a weapon against them.
What are you talking about? It's from the Bible. Women have no rights in the Bible. We should be glad he didn't haul her out in the public square, brand her a harlot and stone her when he was done with her.
Or maybe he could have called her a witch and burned her at the stake.
You just said what I was talking about... we hear so much on "good/traditional christian values"... and that the BIBLE supports it. :-)
Mr. Cathy, the owner of Chick-fil-A, was talking about fools like this guy when Mr. Cathy stated the "wives" comment. In other words, Mr. Cathy loves and respects his wife. A lot of men don't respect their wives and this fool is a perfect example.
According to the Bible, he should have paid her father 30 shekels of silver and then married her. And it's OK that he already had a wife. That whole "marriage is one man and one woman" thing is not at all Biblical. After all, Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. So much for "traditional" marriage.
flbikerchick
Nothing but applause from Texas. Love the comment.
Tax all Churches and Religions to the fullest extent of the code.
I am tired of subsidizing their profligacy and zaniness.
And what are you a good example of? An ass?
Why do so many idiots group all pastors and CXhristians together when one person falls? That's like saying all gay people have aids because one does. Don't you see your foolishness, hatred and bigotry? Or is because you hate yourself so much that misery loves company?
I say amen to that, it's time for religion to pay. If I have a group of pegans gather in my home
do I get tax breaks??
I find it hard to believe that Gays wanting to marry is a bigger crisis than heterosexuals committing adultery, let alone while having sex with a minor.
of course he's forgiven, it was just one mistake that he did over and over and over and over again.
im sure, after some deep reflection and leaning on GOD, he'll be a changed man and it wont ever happen again.
oh but the gays, they are destroying america...the fabric of good christian homes, it's all the gays fault.
christians, they just crack me up.
Jessica-1170252
Thanks for saying exactly what I have been thinking. The "faith" always does better when it has something to 'hate' and rally people behind. As someone else said on this article, if we just eat chicken sammiches, and apologize to god, all of this man's crimes will be forgiven.
Timothy "Why do so many idiots group all pastors and CXhristians together when one person falls?"
it's not just ONE person Timothy. you want to act like it is, but it's millions of christians failing every single day in every single way...and all the while, those same christians are pointing fingers at gays calling them the real sinners who dont deserve any rights.
when will the REAL CHRISTIANS call for a ban on adultery? revoke all marriages of people who cheated and remarried. ban all liars, cheats and thieves from marrying...that kind of sin shouldnt be accepted and promoted by allowing sinful people to marry and flaunt their sinful lifestyles...no more than the gays should be allowed.
when will the real christians ban rich people from marrying? after all, god said "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"...so if they arent going to heaven, why would we want them to get married and promote that disasterous lifestyle? rich people, by marrying, are causing other people to want to be rich and end up in hell...cant you see how horrific this is? far worse than gays - why? because there are more rich people than gay people! (and more adulterers, liars, cheats and thieves!)
but no, christians only care about making sure gays have no rights...while all the other sinners get the full freedom to marry and pass along their sinful ways to offspring. it's just horrid.
"That's like saying all gay people have aids because one does. Don't you see your foolishness, hatred and bigotry? Or is because you hate yourself so much that misery loves company?"
no, i like to point out the hypocrisy...and you clearly dont like to see it. how about you go eat a chik-fil-a sandwich and thump your chest like a true proud christian? sing a little God Bless America while you're there, cause thats how a real christian behaves...and this guy, he's just ONE GUY who failed, he doesnt represent anyone...no, there arent any other hetero's failing miserably every single day. NOPE. nothing to see here.
50% of marriages end in divorce, and GOD hates divorce. you guys suck at life. admit it.
flbikerchick, you mentioned things in the Old Testament. Jesus Christ came to make things right, hence the New Testament and in the New Testament Jesus Christ speaks how "traditional" marriage should be.
People who make fun of or criticize the Bible really don't understand the Bible. It shows their ignorance.
I notice that Jesus had a wonderful traditional marriage one man with 12 other men.
Jesus also speaks out against adultery and divorce. I don't see anyone in the Christian community demanding an end to their civil rights. Jesus calls for people to be peacemakers. I see very few evangelical christians speaking out against the USA war policy. Jeus never mentions homsexuality. So I assume he had no problem with it.
Dennis, again this is what Mr. Cathy was talking about. Yes Jesus speaks out against adultery and divorce and He is displeased and rightfully so. This is why Mr. Cathy said that God is shaking His fist with anger. He is shaking His fist at a lot of things happening in this world.
You think God was happy in what this pastor did? No way and look at him now, the fool got caught. God does make someone pay, if not now then later. This man will pay for what he did.
True that Jesus never mentioned the term "homosexuality" because it was a term that didn't exist back then but Jesus did speak of unions and it is between a man and a women as Jesus clearly stated in the Book of Matthew.
Jo Ann-666954
Since this man committed a 'sin' in accordance with the new testament and a lead chicken flipper, should he immediately LOSE all of his civil rights? Does this same 'sin' apply to all heterosexual couples that commit divorce as well?
Why do Christians run from the old testament when you site examples of its violence, bigotry and and lack of common sense, but use the same old testament to justify their attitudes about homosexuals? Can anyone help me understand that? If Jesus made the entire old testament null and void, take it out of the bible and with it, your judgement of gays, 10 commandments, laws forbidding the mixing of fabrics, etc. It's 2012.
Just love how he's already forgiven by the church goer. Well, that worked. That girl is somebodys daughter.
Cappy, I can try to explain. In the Old Testament there were priestly and moral laws. In the New Testament Jesus fulfilled the priestly laws by dying on the cross. The moral laws are still intact because it is a reflection on God, for example the Ten Commandments.
The Old Testament is part of the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible consists of two parts: The Old Testament and The New Testament. You cannot take it out of the Bible. It's really difficult to discuss this on the internet.
Jesus Christ never shows hate towards anyone. He is a loving God. He does say to ANY and ALL sinners, "Go and sin no more". And all sinners include you and me.
Mr. Cathy never announced hate in his opinion. The media and the gay organizations twist things around to make it seem like he did.
What about all the parts of both the old and new testaments that were edited out of the bible? They were written, there is proof, but they were removed when the current bible was compiled. I thought you couldn't take things out of the bible?
Where did the gospel of Judas go? Or the story of Adam's first wife, the first woman called Lilith?
The bible today is nothing more than a book that was compiled by people that wanted to control the population as they saw fit.
But it's all ok. Christians can just do whatever they want to, good or bad, and they say "Oops, sorry God", and they're back to being pure as the driven snow. Then they can start all over, screw someone else - literally or figuratively - and say "Oops" again.
Hypocrite. And you wonder why church attendance is at an all time low. This crap about committing a sin and then having a 'imaginary person in the sky' forgive you is BS.
But God forbid two people of the same sex want to marry. A**holes
It's funny how all these stories generally come out just when christians are having their highest point, huh?
GOOD JOB MSNBC. UNFORTUNATELY NO ONE FALLS FOR YOUR GARBAGE ANYMORE. Perhaps its because the pro-gay stance against CFA isn't getting as much steam as you think it should get?
What this pastor did was wrong, and I'm glad his congregation removed him from the pulpit. But that just goes to show you that NO ONE IS PERFECT. No amount of good deeds you do will make up for the sin you commit.
So why do a lot of people think that God will listen to them when they do good deeds?
Jessica,
You are awsome! Your posts speak for millions.
Thank You
I'll bet this guy was up there every week preaching brimstone and fire and family values. Now he will see the errors of his way, since he was temped by satan, and God will forgive him for his sins. Yada yada yada. Same line of crap we've seen over and over again. I'm surprised people keep falling for it.
Unhappy-1583758
It's SAD that these stories continue to emerge in this country at anytime. How is christanity at a high point? You mean when some (who are of the Christian faith) continue to force their beliefs down on everyone else is a high point?
As for NBCNEWs, if you don't like it, don't read it, simple. This story technically has NOTHING to do with CFA, although its interesting that people forgot what the lead chicken flipper really said related to "first wives". Its called HYPOCRISY.
What this pastor did was definitely wrong. However, the christian world 'will' forgive him, because its not as "HIGH" of a "SIN" as being gay.
Jo Ann-666954
The christian right and the lead chicken flipper LOVE to quote the bible when it suits them, but when one of their own makes a mistake, its "oh.... well that part of the bible was in the old testament and it doesn't apply. In short, they are hypocrites and unless you "follow" their beliefs, then you are a liberal or a non believer.
He financially donated to an organization that supports HATE and lobbys congress based on his religiuos beliefs. Its FACT not twisted opinions or anything else. Its absolutely no different than any other organization (as a whole) that lobbys congress to "sway" things there way. THe only difference here is, ITS FOR HATE, not for Financial gain.
Probably a Boy Scout. And probably participated in the Chick Fil A eat in.
Unhappy-1583758... If you're so unhappy why don't you just change the channel? MSNBC won't miss you, trust me. But, then you won't have anything to be unhappy about, huh? Do you want to "cast the first stone", oh judger of men? Oh, and about "God"... Did you know that she's black?
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
It's ABout Time: Actually that is where you are mistaken. God will forgive him, but only if he asks for that forgivness, just like God will forgive gays if they ask God as well.
The difference is will this pastor continue to stay in his sin. A lot of gays make that choice to stay. You can't separate the two and say "I will only obey God on this and not that".
No, ADULTERY IS FORBIDDEN IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT, JUST LIKE BEING A HOMOSEXUAL. In which case, christians have the right to chastize him. And don't worry, I'm sure his congregation is doing it.
Sam: Are you trying to infringe upon my first amendment rights of free speech. I thought we covered all that with the CFA incident.
"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, and said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
Child molesters, a doctrine of hate and judgment, vaults of valuables, a Bank on the property, Is there really any doubt what Jesus would do with the Vatican?
signed: A recovered Catholic.
Jo Ann: My problem is not your beliefs.
My problem with religion has more to do with how our laws are written, and for financial reasons.
Your religious beliefs need to not have any affect on my life, be it through the laws I must live by daily and the financial contributions everyone, including religions, should be responsible for and pay (taxes).
Unhappy... You are one confused person. I don't know which version of the bible you read but, if you don't understand Hebrew, you're barking at the moon. Being an Oriental language there is no literal translation. So, if you're gonna' get down to brass tacks, I'd say you've got your work cut out for you.
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
Clearly these clowns don't believe the nonsense they sell. This is the most egregious kind of predator out there - preying on a young girl who is member of the flock he's supposed to protect and guide. Of course he'll be forgiven - he's told them that that's how it works, right? She, on the other hand will be shunned and treated like crap. It's the christian way, doncha know.
As for all this bs about "God shaking his fist" at the world - what kind of cartoon dieties are you simpletons buying into these days? The history of the world is blood-soaked and filled with atrocities. If you think that old white man sitting in the clouds is worried about a few of his creations being gay when he hasn't given a rat's a$$ over anything up until now, you need your head examined.
Unhappy... I'm not trying to infringe on your anything. This is, after all, America and you're free to talk as much nonsense as you like.
Why are so many evangelical Christian leaders caught in scandalsYou'll like this video on youtube about church "scandals"...and all the other misc. crap that comes out of those places. It's a powerful video.
1. Everybody Hates John Edwards
2. Gary Hart Blows His Shot at the Presidency
3. Obligatory Acknowledgment of the Monica Lewinsky Scandal
4. Clarence Thomas, Anita Hill, and Pubic Hair on a Can of Coke
5. LBJ's Top Aide Caught in the YMCA Men's Room6. Eliot Spitzer's Very Expensive Taste
7. Sexy DC Blogger Reveals Way Too Much
8. Congressional Page Scandal Pt. 1: Dan Crane
9. Congressional Page Scandal Pt. 2: Gerry Studds
111. Facing Prison, the D.C. Madam Hangs Herself in a Shed
12. Jeff Gannon: Male Prostitute & White House Correspondent
13. Crystal Meth, a Male Prostitute, and the Fall of Pastor Ted Haggard
14. Bob Packwood's Bizarre Diaries Used Against Him
15. Gary Condit Damn Near Charged With Murder
16. JFK and Marilyn Monroe
17. Jack Ryan, His Hot Half-Borg Wife, and Public Sex Clubs
18. Bob Bauman and a 16-Year-Old Male Prostitute
19. Mayor James West, AKA Cobra82 on Gay.com
20. No One Wants to Skinny Dip With Jon Grunseth0. Segregationist Strom Thurmond's Mixed-Race Love 21. Mark Foley Gets Caught Sexting Underage Pages
22. Larry Craig's Wide Stance Gets Him in Trouble
23. Playmate Paula Parkinson: 'Washington Is Basically a Very Horny City'
24. Alexander Hamilton's Very Modern 18th Century Sex Scandal
25. Bob Allen's Men's Room Misadventures
31. Before Jerry Springer's Name Was a Chant
32. The Don Sherwood Chokehold
33. Grover Cleveland's 'Mamma Mia' Lovechild
34. Governor Paul Patton Gets Dumped, Closes Home for Elderly
35. Duke Cunningham's Randy Appetite
36. Proof That Gavin Newsom is Kind of Sleazy
37. Allan Howe's Indecently Low Proposal
38. Neil Goldschmidt Beats the Statute of Limitations, Still Remembered as Child Molester
39. Warren G. Couldn't Keep His Harding In His Pants
40. Wilbur Mills Throws It All Away for an Argentine Stripper
41. Antonio Villaraigosa's Real Life Telenovela
42. Jon Hinson Gets Caught in the Men's Room
43. Vito Fossella Bailed Out of Jail by the Wrong Woman
44. Jim McGreevey's Gay, but That's Not the Problem
45. Brock Adams' Senate Career Ended by Accusations of Harrassment
46. The Hypocrisy of Newt Gingrich
47. Wayne Hays' Girlfriend Goes to the Press
48. Sol Wachtler's Boots Were Made for Walking Into an FBI Sting
49. Mel Reynolds Just Won't Give Up
50. Thomas Jefferson Honors Promise to Dying Wife... Sort Of
This guy has the same problem as Slick Willy - once his tallywacker is on the beat he wants to stuff it somewhere - the younger and more easily deceived of his congregation become that much more tempting.
Unhappy-1583758
So.. according to this view of Christanity, you can basically commit any sin you want, and if you ask for forgivness, you will get it???
Can you answer this for me:
I hear from the lead chicken flipper and others that the bible expressly forbids divorce and it's a SIN. Does the divorced person just go to God and say "Please forgive me for this SIN', and then all is forgiven? What if they stay divorced? Are they still committing a SIN and have to god again to ask for forgiveness? What about if they re-marry? is that still a SIN?
Also, you commented that being gay is expressly forbideen in both the old and new testament. I assume you also believe if you are gay (and act upon it), that you are committing a sin. I think you probably believe based upon this that gays/lesbians cannot be legally married in the United States. So... if a heterosexual individual commits a SIN, do they also lose any of their civil rights as well? Just seems odd that if being gay is a sin and they cannot get married, heterosexuals who sin should't get to keep their civil rights?
Wow...I'm reading these posts and it amazes me...how much finger pointing gets done by both sides. How much anger & hatred comes from both sides. Whew!!! I'm not perfect by any means, never will be. The best I can do is aspire & try to be a better person, one that has lots more empathy for others (for gays, Christians & you name whomever you like), encouragement and kind words. I wonder why gays want to be married, if the divorce rate is 50% then why would it be desirable to be a part of an ideology that only has a 50% success rate? For those who don't know part of what Jesus said in the Bible about marriage...here's what I just looked up...
---Amuzgo de Guerrero (AMU)--- Amuzgo de Guerrero ---العربية (AR)--- Arabic Bible: Easy-to-Read Version Arabic Life Application Bible ---Български (BG)--- 1940 Bulgarian Bible Bulgarian Bible Bulgarian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version Bulgarian Protestant Bible ---Chinanteco de Comaltepec (CCO)--- Chinanteco de Comaltepec ---Cakchiquel Occidental (CKW)--- Cakchiquel Occidental ---Kreyol (CPF)--- Haitian Creole Version ---Čeština (CS)--- Bible 21 Slovo na cestu ---Dansk (DA)--- Bibelen på hverdagsdansk Dette er Biblen på dansk ---Deutsch (DE)--- Hoffnung für Alle Luther Bibel 1545 Neue Genfer Übersetzung Schlachter 1951 Schlachter 2000 ---English (EN)--- 21st Century King James Version American Standard Version Amplified Bible Common English Bible Complete Jewish Bible Contemporary English Version Darby Translation Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition Easy-to-Read Version English Standard Version English Standard Version Anglicised GOD’S WORD Translation Good News Translation Holman Christian Standard Bible J.B. Phillips New Testament King James Version Lexham English Bible The Message Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament New American Standard Bible New Century Version New International Reader's Version New International Version New International Version 1984 New International Version - UK New King James Version New Life Version New Living Translation Today's New International Version Worldwide English (New Testament) Wycliffe Bible Young's Literal Translation ---Español (ES)--- La Biblia de las Américas Castilian Dios Habla Hoy Nueva Biblia Latinoamericana de Hoy Nueva Traducción Viviente Nueva Versión Internacional Nueva Versión Internacional (Castilian) Palabra de Dios para Todos La Palabra (España) La Palabra (Hispanoamérica) Reina Valera Contemporánea Reina-Valera 1960 Reina-Valera 1995 Reina-Valera Antigua Traducción en lenguaje actual ---Français (FR)--- La Bible du Semeur Louis Segond Nouvelle Edition de Genève – NEG1979 Segond 21 ---Κοινη (GRC)--- 1550 Stephanus New Testament 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament 1894 Scrivener New Testament SBL Greek New Testament ---עיברית (HE)--- Habrit Hakhadasha/Haderekh The Westminster Leningrad Codex ---Hrvatski (HR)--- Croatian Bible ---Magyar (HU)--- Hungarian Károli Hungarian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version ---Hawai‘i Pidgin (HWC)--- Hawai‘i Pidgin ---Íslenska (IS)--- Icelandic Bible ---Italiano (IT)--- Conferenza Episcopale Italiana La Nuova Diodati La Parola è Vita Nuova Riveduta 1994 Nuova Riveduta 2006 ---Jacalteco, Oriental (JAC)--- Jacalteco, Oriental ---Kekchi (KEK)--- Kekchi ---Latina (LA)--- Biblia Sacra Vulgata ---Māori (MI)--- Maori Bible ---Macedonian (MK)--- Macedonian New Testament ---Mam, Central (MVC)--- Mam, Central ---Mam, Todos Santos (MVJ)--- Mam de Todos Santos Chuchumatán ---Plautdietsch (NDS)--- Reimer 2001 ---Náhuatl de Guerrero (NGU)--- Náhuatl de Guerrero ---Nederlands (NL)--- Het Boek ---Norsk (NO)--- Det Norsk Bibelselskap 1930 En Levende Bok ---Polski (PL)--- Nowe Przymierze ---Português (PT)--- João Ferreira de Almeida Atualizada Nova Versão Internacional O Livro Portuguese New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version ---Quiché, Centro Occidenta (QUT)--- Quiché, Centro Occidental ---Română (RO)--- Cornilescu Noua Traducere În Limba Român Romanian ---Русский (RU)--- Russian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version Russian Synodal Version Slovo Zhizny ---Slovenčina (SK)--- Nádej pre kazdého ---Somali (SO)--- Somali Bible ---Shqip (SQ)--- Albanian Bible ---Српски (SR)--- Serbian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version ---Svenska (SV)--- Levande Bibeln Svenska 1917 Svenska Folkbibeln ---Kiswahili (SW)--- Swahili New Testament ---ภาษาไทย (TH)--- Thai New Contemporary Bible Thai New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version ---Tagalog (TL)--- Ang Salita ng Diyos ---Українська (UK)--- Ukrainian Bible Ukrainian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version ---Uspanteco (USP)--- Uspanteco ---Tiêng Viêt (VI)--- 1934 Vietnamese Bible Ban Dich 2011 Vietnamese Bible: Easy-to-Read Version ---汉语 (ZH)--- Chinese Contemporary Bible Chinese New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version Chinese Standard Bible (Simplified) Chinese Standard Bible (Traditional) Chinese Union Version (Simplified) Chinese Union Version (Traditional) Chinese Union Version Modern Punctuation (Simplified) Chinese Union Version Modern Punctuation (Traditional)
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Matthew 19:1-12
New Living Translation (NLT)
Discussion about Divorce and Marriage
19 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went down to the region of Judea east of the Jordan River. 2 Large crowds followed him there, and he healed their sick.
3 Some Pharisees came and tried to trap him with this question: “Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 “Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’[a]” 5 And he said, “‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.’[b] 6 Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together.”
7 “Then why did Moses say in the law that a man could give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away?”[c] they asked.
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended. 9 And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful.[d]” 10 Jesus’ disciples then said to him, “If this is the case, it is better not to marry!” 11 “Not everyone can accept this statement,” Jesus said. “Only those whom God helps. 12 Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry[e] for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”
Maybe because they are in love and want to spend the rest of their lives with someone? Yes, the divorce rate in this country is sad... but that doesn't mean it will end up in divorce for everyone.
One can only hope when this paragon of virtue gets fed to the lions, the lions will say, MMMMMMM, tastes like Chick-fil-A.
No doubt you'd be far more condemning if the victim were a boy.
At least then you'd be able to express your irrational homophobia rather than pretend to be someone who opposes stereotypes.
I'm sure that this pastor is a fine, upstanding Chick-Fil-A-Hole
Jo Ann-666954: The Old testament is a history of the Hebrew people prior to the advent of Jesus. Every story in it was a reaction to an event or people with whom the Hebrews came into contact. It is a judgement to keep the Hebrew people free of other influences and pure. Jesus is the way, nothing else. Not even the Old Testament.
It seems to me, over many years of observation, the Baptist Church is one of the most biased institutions for quoting Scripture that is tailored to suit their present need or opinion, often taken out of context to extoll guilt, and to place blame and damnation on almost everyone but themselves! Perhaps they should buy and use a devise called a mirror!
Sam-3910152
What is that nonsense about Hebrew being an Oriental language? It is actually of an Afroasiatic language origin. Which are languages spoken in the Middle East and northern Africa. Another Fun Fact- the books of the Old Testament of the Bible were written in Hebrew and Aramaic. Many believe Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic and Greek. The New Testament was written by his disciples in Koine Greek. Most of the people in the known world at least spoke Greek at the time.
Yup... that is the loophole in Christianity. Commit any sin you want, ask for forgiveness and BAM, you get it.
This is why so many Christians commit the sin of premarital sex... because they know that they will EVENTUALLY get married, and thus no longer live that lifestyle. So they ask forgiveness each day, do it again, and are content with knowing that they will eventually change their lifestyle permanently when they marry.
That is the trick they use for homosexuality... they claim that continuing to live that lifestyle is a sin, and thus forgiveness is not given. Even though Christians will continue to commit sins themselves, like lying, cheating, lusting, etc. Of course, they use another loophole by claiming that they will "try" not to commit these sins, even though they continue.
Stuckatwork... Okay, you're obviously a scholar (thank heaven) but, you misunderstand. I was replying to an incredibly confused person who keeps quoting (thumping) the "Bible." I just want to know which version they get their misinformation from. As you must know, most Oriental, or "Afroasiatic" languages form a series of pictures in your mind and cannot be translated literally. You know, one way to say things, unlike English which seems designed to confuse. It's working out quite well, don't you think?
"it's not just ONE person Timothy. you want to act like it is, but it's millions of christians failing every single day in every single way"
Why do they fail Jessica? When you are taught by the church from the start, that if you have questions, they are the only ones you must seek the real answers from, and no one else, that is why they fail. They are not you or I, and have no idea what answer will work for each person as an individual. The Bible is a book of allegories, not stories to be read and taken literally, and sold to the people as such by the heads of the churches. You have to think for a moment, what if the people were to understand the real meanings behind the symbols in the Bible, what would happen? Those running the church would end up being on the outside looking in. They would lose their power and influance over their followers, and most of all, their funding. It's not hard to figure it out, or even understand it. They try their best to sell it to the masses, that to find the Christ, you have to look everywhere else but one one place, within.
He’ll
be okay. All he has to do is repent and try not to do it again. A few posters
brought up Christians views on homosexuality in comparison to what he has done.
Remember all he has done is commit statutory rape, lie to his wife, and commit adultery.
Everyone knows God will forgive him if he asks. It’s not like he had sex with a
consenting adult of the same sex or fell in love with someone of the same sex. That’s
far worse and the Old Testament offers death for those sins just like it offers
death for anyone working on the Sabbath. His sins were not an abomination the way same
sex, eating shellfish, or being with a woman during her mistral period is. Homosexuals
will not inherit the kingdom of God the same way liars will not inherit the kingdom
of God. But then, depending on whose researches we go by, humans (Christians
included) lie between 1 and 13 times a day every day of their life. Oh well, I
guess all Christians have to do is repent and never lie again the same way they
expect homosexuals to repent and never fall in love with a person of same sex or
have same sex again. What? I know it doesn’t make sense and you might think it’s
a double standard created by a pick and choose belief but it’s complicated. Trust
me! That’s why Christians love the sinner but hate the sin. Otherwise they
couldn’t love each other and rally to eradicate consensual loving relationships
between same sex adults the way they must someday strive for the death penalty
for sinners working on the Sabbath. It’s complicated like I said and you have
to be a Christian to fully understand and respect its complexity. In other
words, it’s above your head and below your knees and all sarcasm is intended
where double standards are concerned.
When you follow the Whore Church and her Ways you will become like her, a Whore! Read the Book. These guys are not what G-d intended to be his Church here on earth established by his Son the Messiah Yeshua HaMoschiach. They align themselves with the Mother of Harlots and so why does it surprise you when she goes a acting like a harlot.
Let's play BURY THE DEVIL... now spread your legs...
There is this thing called Prosperity Theology. Kenneth Copelands ministry is widely held as the model of
prosperity theology. Oral Roberts and T.D.Jakes practice9d) this type of ministry.
Prosperity Theology: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
The dominionists
are also part of this movement in that it is their goal to "gain
dominion" over the earth (and therefore, the people on the earth) by
controlling the "seven mountains" of culture.
FROM:
www.reclaim7mountains.com/apps/articles/default.asp?articleid=41538&columnid=4347
"God’s purpose for humanity was to bless a people so that they could possess and bless the earth.”
(1) God’s covenant people taking dominion of the earth has been the main theme of every covenant that God has ever made with mankind. The New Covenant for the church is no different with its expectation of dominion by making disciples of all nations.
(2) The Dominion Process is two-fold.First, human beings are blessed by God.Secondly, these blessed human beings are given a mandate to take dominion of the earth for the purpose of blessing it.
(3) The first advent of Christ was for the purpose of creating a blessed seed upon the earth- the church.The second coming of Jesus will take place after this blessed seed has completed the Dominion Process upon the earth by making disciples of all nations.
FROM: First amendment to the Constitution of the United States:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
How did this conversation drift away from the fact that a child molester committed a crime. It is not about gays. It is not about religion. it's about some old guy having sex with an underage girl. Could we please leave gays, God and the old and new testement out of this. I'm sure there are other articles in which pr and anti gay, god and religion opinions can be expressed. The guy committed a crime. Put his sorry ass in jail period.
Jo Ann-666954
The difference between the priestly and moral laws in the Old Testament is the Levites added "The LORD commands" before they wrote the law THEY wanted the uneducated, superstitious, mostly polytheistic Israelites to follow. And, just in case any of the uneducated masses may have gotten wise to it, the Levites wrote into The Law that Yahweh (God) said they should be put to death.
The very facts that the majority of biblical scholars say the Exodus probably occurred between 1350 and 1200 BC and the fall of Jericho at the end of the Exodus, when radiocarbon dating on charred grain at the site shows the city was destroyed between 1617 and 1530 BC, say that stuff in the Old Testament should be taken with a grain of salt. The destruction of Jericho happened way before the Exodus even began.
And then you couple those to the fact that extra-biblical historians place Moses (who mentions him having a brother named Aaron) in Egypt around 1100 BC. That would be 20th Dynasty.
It all points to the possibility of a group of educated people sensationalizing the events of the Exodus and making a hero out of one of their group (Moses) to get the uneducated masses to blindly do whatever they said.
I was told from early in my life you need to believe the whole bible or you believe none of it. I, in good conscience, can't believe the Old Testament up to the books of the prophets. So, I guess, I can't believe any of it. But for those of you who can and do. I have a question for you. Do you follow the scriptures or do you follow the church? And by "following the church", I mean unquestionably drink the koolaid your religious leaders serve you as I strongly suspect the ancient Israelite's did where their priests (the Levite's) were concerned.
Do you know that Yahushua's (Christ's) followers asked him what days were they supposed to observe? Do you know he answered them saying that they were to observe the Sabbaths and holy feasts he observed? That's all in the New Testament.
Yahushua kept a Saturday weekly Sabbath (not a Sunday) and all the Jewish feasts. Do you wonder why the church keeps a Sunday sabbath and observes Easter and Dec 25th among other holy days as being sacred? You can find all of that in ancient "pagan" mysteries.
The church wants you to believe, unquestionably, that Emperor Constantine, the founder of the Roman Catholic Church, was the first Christian emperor. History shows that there was nothing Christian about him. His mother was a Christian. But he, himself, was a devout follower of Mithra, a sun god, until his death.
Mithra, as all sun gods, was born on Dec. 25th. His weekly holy day was Sunday. A symbol sacred to him was the cross (there are even some depictions of Mithra hanging from a cross). Mithra died and resurrected on Easter Sunday.
Church doctrine says that Yahushua (Christ) partook his last supper on Thursday night (Maundy Thursday), was crucified and died on Friday (Good Friday), laid to rest, and, by the time the women came to His grave on Sunday morning, He was no longer there. Yahushua said that he would spend 3 days and 3 nights in the grave just as Jonah spent 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the fish. THAT'S 72 HOURS!!!!!! How can you possibly get 72 hours between just before sunset Good Friday to before sunrise Easter Sunday? I'll tell you. You can't.
Yahweh supposedly said that his followers were to be set apart from the rest of the world. So why does the church insert Yahweh and his son into, and emphatically embrace, the "pagan" holy days?
If you question my stance on the possibility of the priests (the Levite's) duping the masses in some of the Old Testament. Ask yourself this: the one's that Yahushua really offended while he was on earth was the Temple leaders. Yahushua's message would have essentially put them out of business. Think that was a good motive to want to see Him dead?
Yahushua taught the Golden Rule: Do to others as you would want to have done to you. That pretty much ripped the heart out of the priestly rules. The Levites were the ones encouraging wars to keep their own pockets lined. They would rally the masses up saying the enemies were worshiping idols and making themselves an abomination before Yahweh. Yahweh commands their destruction. Yahweh commands that you give the booty to the temple (Levitical pockets).
I'm not saying this to insult, or offend, anybody. I grew up in the church. I graduated from a Christian based high school. I've studied the Bible. I love studying ancient history.
Don't take what I said as gospel truth. I urge you to study your scriptures and ask questions. If YOU think what the Bible says is accurate, then that's between you and Yahweh. If you think what the church teaches is accurate, that's between you, Yahweh, and a 3rd party.
I feel as though the church wants you to believe what they're selling you for the sole reason of lining their own pockets and, in some cases, to keep preaching intolerance. CLEARLY going against Yahushua's preachings of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "Judge not lest you be judged."
Peace be to all of you.
@WCF1957
Agree 100%!!!
Surprise! Another church leader taking advantage of his flock.
Good people do good things and evil people do bad things. But to get good people to do bad things, that takes religion.
Maybe god told him it was okay.. and since there is nothing in the bible that says this type of perversion is wrong... <-- Sarcasm
Great Post Rillibtowb
I'm glad our laws are not based on religious doctrine.
It'sAboutTime - well, for a heterosexual it probably feels like our laws arent based on religious doctrine, because all the ways heterosexuals sin arent cause for a lack of rights and freedom.
but gays, our laws are based on religious doctrine...we just arent allowed to be sinners and have equal rights like the hetero sinners.
im going to start a campaign to make sure ALL LAWS are based on religious doctrine, maybe the rest of the hetero sinners will see the light when their freedoms and rights disappear...
It clearly states in the Bible "Do not spare the rod.. he that spareth the rod hateth his child". He was just trying to apply that biblical mandate to a nubile nymphet in his flock that needed some "correction".
No, that pastor committed a sin. And if you think the christian community would just excuse that type of behavior then you are wrong.
I am glad MSNBC brought this to our attention. However it is not new since it was already broadcasted in the "Christian Post", which I am beginning to suspect where MSNBC gets all of their news.
You must be kidding. What a howler. I really don't think MSNBC gives two sh!ts about the "Christian Post" or anything in it.
MSNBC likes to copy their news from other newspapers. You don't remember the story they did on TBN. They copied it from the NEW YORK TIMES. And that was only 2-3 months after it happened when NYT posted it.
They do copy from other newspapers.
So the christian community isn't forgiving? Funny, their book says they should be...but they're not hypocrites, right?
It's not up to the Christian community to provide foregiveness, that's what the minister sells. You need to call his toll free number and you can buy foregiveness by providing your credit card number.
You don't even have to leave your sofa, you don't even have to get out of your chair, just phone the number as it flashes on your TV screen.
For $100 he will get you a place in heaven......prepaid.
Call in the next 5 minutes and he will throw in a free copy of the bible autographed by God.
Nah, it's just that when good people do bad things, it makes news.... I'm only a Sunday School teacher, and no, I'm not perfect, but I hold myself to a standard of behavior that I don't have to apologize for. This pastor was weak, we all have moments like that -- still NOT excusing him. There are sinners in churches.... To find someone self righteous, you just have to look outside the church for an extended index finger.....
Sure, "GOD put him in that situation and the members should not judge what GOD did". Talk about brain washing in a religious cult.
Anyone who would make a statement to that effect and believe it, is so indoctrinated it would take a lot of therapy to "see the light".
Every religion has their pedophiles, abuse and adultery. The preachers always take advantage of the flock.
That is what religion is all about. Control and power over the masses.
Steven100
I couldn't agree more with your comment. However, I am sure the bible thumpers will be out in full force today and provide a long winded response on why religion is not based on control.
Remember when they used to say, "The Devil made me do it?" Now they blame everything on God...
No, that's like saying " God made me this way".
It's no wonder that the pro-gay stance against CFA is losing steam.
But if everything is God's will then God willed this pastor to get this girl on her knees.
I know, Unhappy! It's like...no gays are out today counter-protesting. They're keeping totally silent today and I'm sure they'll continue to do so because this two year protest they've been carrying on by NOT eating somewhere sure is exhausting.
The important thing is that you send your dollars to Geezuzz.
.....or just call his toll free number and pay by credit card.
What's the difference between control & discipline?
C.A. Norris: Do you have a dictionary?
"I know God put him in that position for a reason and what he did is a mistake, and God will forgive him," parishioner Jesus Perez said.
Another case for atheism; we know how to self regulate and don't "reason" things away with ridiculous notions of the unknown.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Denver Bill, you made me snort my coffee! Thanks so much!
Rillibtowb: God will forgive him, but only if he asks for forgiveness.
However, I doubt he would become the Pastor of that church again.
Maybe not THAT church, but since there's practically one on every corner, he'll soon be employed again.
God put him in the missionary position...
That pastor is every bit as good an example of Christianity as Anthony Wiener is of the Democratic Party.
Kind of like all of these republicans who were also 'big proponents' of Christianity.
http://badmouth.net/top-five-republican-gay-sex-scandals/
I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to pull in politics and of course, ignore the hypocrisy of the GOP.
I hear you..
Politics are separate in this issue. This pastor was not a member of Congress or any other part of the Govt. Both of you should refrain from linking the two.
Ditto advice to the churches.
Denver Bill 2, your analogy doesn't make sense because we know that politicians are liars and crooks. The clergy, ordained by God, are supposed to be above that. Not to mention, I dont know a single person who identifies themselves as a Christian that actually follows the teachings of Christ. Your true religion is what you do, say and think, not what you claim to be.
Just because one man doesn't live up to the bible, doesn't mean the message and the Savior are not true. It is ingrained in you to know that God is the Judge, and His Son is still the way.
They tried to ingrain it in me with their brainwashing, but it didn't hold up to even the most cursory comparison with reality. Ask questions. Think about the answers. When they start to contradict one another you will begin to realize you have been lied to.
Well Heshimu Colar, this is one man right now. There have been plenty. Why is it when it's only one man now everything else doesn't count? There is plenty of abuse, scandal, and lying going on all around the many Chrsitian churches.
That is true, but only because men don't live up to the expectations of God. Not the other way around.
Would you judge other religions on the actions of one individual. Unless that is what they preach, you can only assume that it is that one person and one person only.
In the case of Christianity, that is not what the bible says. This former pastor committed adultery...... the bible expressly forbids it.
Trust me, if anyone ever gives him a chance to preach again, I think the message he gives on adultery will aquire "new meaning".
Especially those verses about running from sexual sin.
So not all christians are adulterers, but all Muslims are still terrorists, all homosexuals are still deviants, all liberals are lazy?
See, there are no absolutes until you're talking about people you don't like.
I am offended by comments like the Baptist parishioner who is trying to blame God for the brokenness of the pastor. These church members should start examining their own willingness to "worship" pastors who covet work-wise power and control. The HUGE symptom in this dysfunctionality is the fact that a man could "inherit" the control of a church from his father-in-law. A sign that this church had by that time already taken a deadly turn into pastor-worship. It never EVER turns out well....
see.... even Jesus said god will forgive him. ....we're all good now.... well, it may have been Jesus Perez, but no matter
I wonder if his middle name begins with "H"...
So So sad, so many people in the world all beleving in a god and all of them brainwashed into beleving in it, I know the truth about your gods open your eyes and ears don't let other men tell you that you are going to hell, it's all BS Don't waste what little time you have on our world letting other men tell you what to do,
A married man in a position of power that should have known better than to do something like this and the parishioner says God will forgive him.
Maybe it's not God this guy needs to ask forgiveness from...maybe it's the 16 year old girl that the creepy guy took advantage of and the wife he betrayed that he should be begging for forgiveness from...just saying.
It doesn't take a "creepy" guy to desire a 16 year old girl. But it does take some common sense and maturity to leave her alone!
If your 54 and you desire a 16 year old.... yeah your creepy.
"If your 54 and you desire a 16 year old.... yeah your creepy."
Bwaaahahaha!! With the overt sexuality that teenie boppers are taught to display today?? Beauty is beauty, Einstein. You'll see when you grow up.
"It doesn't take a "creepy" guy to desire a 16 year old girl. But it does take some common sense and maturity to leave her alone!" 100 per cent correct. His failure was in lack of self control. It's called sin, and if he "goes and sins no more" then he can be forgiven. As a non-"christian" I don't like the whole forgiveness thing sometimes, but it is part of their beliefs.
For the rest of you PC bigots, the difference in what this idiot did and homosexuals trying to force their lifestyles on people who don't want it... is that he has admitted his wrong doing and the church has fired him. Get it? WRONG DOING. FIRED. He hasn't picketed and held a kiss-in with 16 year old girls to get everybody else to change so he can continue his own ways.
Not taking up for what he did, just pointing out your own hypocrisy and bigotry. Oh, I forgot, that's "enlightened", "inclusive" and "I'm smarter than you because I don't believe" hypocrisy and bigotry, so it's the good kind.
Beauty is beauty, Einstein. You'll see when you grow up.
I'm 49 years old there genius.
And yes it is creepy that a man older than me has desires for a high schooler.
We are not talking about just admiring beauty bonehead, but having sexual desires for a "teeny bopper".
There's a bit of a difference there. Or can't you tell?
cc,
hmosexuals trying to force their lyfestyle on people who don't want it? really? I must have missed that congressional bill that requires men to marry men
"I'm 49 years old there genius."
I doubt it, judging from your posts. Yep, I can tell the difference between what's inappropriate and what's natural. Too bad you can't, Einstein. It's perfectly natural for a grown heterosexual man to recognize an attractive female body regardless of age, and by 16 most females are physically mature. "Creepy" is when they get excited over undeveloped children.
Where he failed was in not controlling himself, forming a "desire" and acting on it. I find it hard to believe, unless you're not attracted to females, that you haven't seen and recognized an attractive 16 year old girl. Hopefully you've controlled yourself.
Agreed, Lori. And CC, the only lifestyle they're trying to push is that they be given all the civil rights that you and I have - like filing married on taxes, receiving social security benefits, receiving spousal survival benefits and property, being able to adopt or foster as a couple, being able to determine medical care of a partner in an emergency situation, having insurance benefit rights. Damn, even common law (ie unmarried) heterosexual couples have the rights denied to gay couple of 20, 30, 40 years. Divorced couples and adulterers have these rights. Something's not right. And don't throw you Biblical phrases out there. This country is NOT a theocracy. Our laws are based on civil rights, not judgements from any religious book - whether it be the Torah, Old Testament, New Testament, Quaran, or other. And gays are not being treated equally under civil law.
I've had gays force their lifestyles on me. Let me give an example. Oh, wait, it was a fashion style not a life style. My bad!
cc, PLEASE tell us where you are. So I can notify the authorities and make sure that the neighborhood can be on the watch for you. You are a pedophile . And the good paster should be charged with Rape.
To all of you who "believe" you can sin and sin again and ask for forgiveness you will be forgiven. I doubt that the Lord will forgive you. You know what you are doing, you know right from wrong and if you choose to continue to sin, why would the Lord God put up with you. And the belief that you can be on your death bed after sinning all your life and you "accept" the Lord God and ask for forgiveness, that you will be forgiven. Dream on. The Lord is not in the business of letting you sin all the time and then forgive. Once you are of the age to know what sin is you have one forgiveness, not hundreds and hundreds. Get real conservatives Christians. God has your lying numbers.
Sanction the football team, eat some chicken sandwiches, and God will be appeased. Better yet, prosecute the pastor, investigate the church's oversight committee, impose jail time and fines, and make sure that all of the children's parents who's offspring participate in the church's youth groups are aware of child sexual abuse laws.
LOL.... great comment, and make sure you don't eat shell fish. God does not approve of people who eat shell fish.
Get off your comedic bigotry IAT, do a little research and you'll find there were reasons for some of those old laws. Also, some written in the bible were cultural, and others were written as specific commandments from God. The cultural stuff can be changed. The Jews have done so over the centuries. The commandments from God are considered "eternal," or until the "fulfillment of time." Jesus came along, fulfilled the Law and freed the gentile from having to obey the works of the Jewish Law. That's call The New Testament. Now, where did it say in the New Testament not to eat shell fish? I can show you where it says not to lay man with man.
You people will be the first to accuse Christians of being ignorant of Islamists when Christians say something against them. But all of you constantly display your own ignorance of the Bible and its divisions with your "I'm smarter than you" bigotry.
Thing is, you're free to not believe. And they're free TO believe. You try to step on their toes with what you believe is a worthy cause, and they do the same. It's tit-for-tat and you "enlightened" ones are too closed-minded to realize that. This type situation doesn't solve anything. Being the smarter, enlightened, inclusive gang that you are, you should know better.
CC GW, clearly Itsabouttime was being sarcastic. We all know jesus made the old rules go away in your faerie tale, but since so many of you people quote the old testament when discussing gay rights, it is cheeky to bring up other old testament rules.
Sorry you were unable to comprehend that. We should have explained it better, but you know what they say:
CC GWRider
Oh I am so sorry if I offended you with my sarcastic humor.... I shall say 5 hail marrys, run to the nearest Chik Fil A and eat a sandwich, and promise to NEVER offend you again.
"Sorry you were unable to comprehend that."
I comprehend humor but what he said is a tired old argument. Sorry you get your panties in a wad when somebody contradicts you with truth.
It's okay IAT, no apology needed. You didn't offend me because I don't consider myself a "christian." You have a right to speak stupidly and I have a right to call you on it. It's all good.
If you comprehended his sarcasm you would not have answered as you did. Let me make this excruciatingly clear to you:
Your bible is a bunch of old myths that have zero bearing on "truth" or reality. We are not making an "argument" by bringing up old testament prohibitions, but rather pointing out the stupidity of relying upon them to justify anything, or any of the bible for that matter.
*sigh* see, the joke is now officially dead.
Good, because I wasn't really going to apologize to someone. Its clear that some do not have a sense of humor and are the personality of a dialtone.
Not sure what a Bible thumper is but you can not convict all the people(Christians) for a single persons actions. The Bible tells us of these things happening and warns us to watch out for it to happen and flee from it. Unfortunately a lot people worship the messenger(pastors) instead of the Creator(GOD) and become blind to their actions.
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
—Matthew 7:15
Well guess what? These sorts of scandals pop up all the time so it isn't only a single person that we are using to convict the obvious perversion that organized religion has become.
But once again you are judging all for a few that have done bad. I in no way protect or condone the wrong they have done. When one football player rapes a young girl do you dislike or condemn all football players?
I play volleyball every Sunday morning in a public park near a mega-church, from 9:00AM till 12:00, and that church is always emptying out after 3 hours of service when I am going home. It just amazes me that people are willing to give up so much of their irreplaceble time and money to a profit-making enterprise that sells myths. That church and another sit on some of the most expensive land in my county. That's no accident. If you want to make money, go where the money is.
Hmmm. Did you go see the latest Batman movie? Sorry, Mikey, your comment failed.
They use their time to pray, worship, donate their money to needy, etc. for 3+ hours a week. What do you do with your "irreplaceable time"? Oh, wait,... VOLLEYBALL!!!!!
Right on Mike! The sheep are led to the slaughter- they go willingly- they're told not to question- they give their money to their rich leaders who align themselves with Jesus(how about this clown Joel Osteen?) and then they head back to their humble homes and try to figure out how to cover that electric bill. I think if Jesus were around today and given the choice- he'd be out there playing volleyball and from time to time he'd look over at the church and just shake his head...
Who was it that said "I like your Christ, just not your Christians." Or was it crustaceans...
Sorry CC Rider it's your comment that failed- don't get so wrapped up in popular culture and contrived thinking. The earth is not flat. Free yourself!
If Mike chose the right mega-church, he'd have access to volleyball right in the complex. There might be a special ministry to people who like to swat ball of different kinds, and the volleys might count as prayers. all the advantages of a well equipped health club in exchange for 10-20% of your income.
And all the pious jocks, recalling the fun times at Promise Keepers rallies or FCA meetings, would snort and call it the "Grow a Pair" Service.
Maybe the right mega-church has morphed into its latest, greatest incarnation where if one doesn't care for volleyball they can nail sixteen year old girls. What a church!
It was not the Lord that placed the pastor in that position it was Satan. The Pastor was given a choice when tempted and he failed God, himself and his family by being tempted and his making the wrong decision to sin and commit adultery with a teen who may have been vulneerable. Preachers are tempted just as each of us are and each of us have the freedom of choice. Yes God will forgive him , but since he had been neither the salt or light as Christians should and viewing so many of these comments it is cler he has done more harm and good and should be banned from any further leadership in any church. God will judge him double for what he has demonstrated to others since he is a leaader in a church and he had acted hypocritcally. Praying for you brother.
blame on satan? what a hoot
God's love in action. It is alright for a pedophile to molest young girls, but if it were a boy, everyone would be saying he was a homo, not a pedophile. The parishioner who spoke up for him said God will forgive him. I am sure that all of the Faithful blind within the christian community have already forgiven him.
Lazarus
I tried working on a television and stage lighting system for a Southern baptist church years ago, at the invitation of a young engineer member of the church. When I went for a meeting with him, and elder, and the head minister, it came out that I was raised Catholic. The elder and the minister stopped speaking to me and walked away and I was dismissed from the job. the younger one apologized and said he should have warned me. So yeah, I think they're a profiteering sham who abuse the words and intentions of whoever Jesus was. So I play volleyball with frinds, get excercise, and I donate my money directly to causes like the Red Cross, Johns Hopkins, and Clean Water - not some some megalomaniacal fraud with capped teeth and a hairhat on his lying head.
Why would a 16 year old want to be with a balding old man? She is old enough to know what she is doing unless he used his position to intimidate her. Wow wife must be a real moron too, if she thinks this is the only discretion she really must be stupid. Hope no one gives him another job, he is not worth the risk of scandal.
The power of eternal damnation to a weak and ill informed mind? Pretty sure this guys "pathway to heaven" cut through the bedroom.
Maybe he was good in bed and she was a s l u t? Doesn't necessarily have to have ANYTHING to do with religion, just good old fashioned lust and licentiousness maybe.
CC,
Maybe he's the S L U T. I see you're blaming the TEENAGER not the adult! Unbelievable! He took her to a state where she was too young to give consent, or did you miss that part? It's called statutory rape! And by the way, what on earth do gay people do to "force their lifestyle on people who don't want it"? (from your earlier post). I have never once seen a rational explanation for that statement. Just because they want to live their lives exactly like everyone else and don't sit down shut up when they don't get equal rights like being able to get married?
Oh yes, religion has NOTHING to do with it! /s
The guy is worshiped by thousands of people every week. This girl is a stupid teenager. It's like how teens want to sleep with rock stars or movie stars without any regard to their age or appearance. If you ignore this basic motivation you are blind.
There are many young women who find older men attractive. It's especially true if the man is powerful or has some charisma that is incomprehensible to outsiders.
Her desire intersects with his lust. She may not know it's not a good idea, but he certainly ought to--even if he's not in a position of authority--especially if he is--and particularly when he's supposed to be upholding rules and regulations that apply to sexual behavior. Of course, if this pastor is more influenced by the Old Testament than b anything "Christian", he's merely claiming what belongs to him.
younger women and older men have been getting in relationships for thousands of years. It was no big deal, even just 100 years ago, for a 16 year old girl to be in love with a man double her age, perhaps a little older.
It's funny how America is the only country on earth with a "legal age law" and yet so many kids under that age are having sex anyway. Shouldn't they be arrested? They are all breaking the law, right? Just get rid of that legal age law. It has done no good at all.
Obviously most of the outraged people here haven't observed our teenage population. Sadly, 16 year olds who haven't had CONSENTUAL sex is the minotirty. Most powerful people exude some sort of charisma and he's not completely unfortunate-looking. As for taking her across the state line, I would guess he did that to avoid being caught and had no idea that IL's age of consent was 17, not 16. Either way, the girl was clearly up for it and he undoubtedly couldn't believe his luck - getting in the knickers of a teenager who probably hero-worshipped him and was just as eager as he was.
Don't lose sight of the fact that had he stayed in Indiana there would be no legal infraction. I agree with Nick1970-3617005 that the situation has been going on for millennia. My own husband is 26 yrs my senior though there's nothing 'senior' about him.
As far as the moral issue goes, he's just a guy that gives biblically referenced speeches at a specific building. Anyone who looks at a pastor or priest as heroic beings above us all - or worse, with a hotline to God - and expects them to check their human nature and libido at the door is being unrealistic. It's my belief that monogamy is a romantic and lovely ideal but not terribly practical. He'll answer for all his actions some day so all the God-botherers out here should stop all the shouting and look to their own values and police themselves. We're all human - all of us. That includes our religious 'leaders'.
That loving, forgiving attitude that the parishioners have toward their lying piece-of-crap pastor: Why don't Baptists ever express that attitude toward any of the many people they categorically hate (a list too long to include here, but one that includes gay men, lesbians, Muslims, people who drink, liberals, people who oppose wars, people who abhor censorship, etc., etc...)?
Thank you! I can't tell you how many times I've said this! It's easy to forgive when it's "people like them" ... Btw, I'm a "recovering" Independent Fundamental Baptist - Thank God, I saw through their hypocrisy!
I am not condoning what this MAN did. He CHOSE to abuse his position of authority, now he will suffer the conciquence for HIS actions. Would I be upset if that was my 16 yr old daughter???? I would be FURIOUS!!! I'm talking, "the cops better get to him before I did" kinda mad. I have 4 beautiful daughters, ages 20, 7, 2 and 9 months. My heart is burdened and heavy though when people make comments about "christianity" and how God is fake and bring politics into the mix blah blah blah........All I can say is this, EACH AND EVERYONE OF US IS A SINNER AND NEEDS A SAVIOUR. Therefore, Jesus, the perfect and sinless sacrifice paid our debt on death. The Lord of lords and the King of kings. This, and every other act of HUMAN UNrighteousness for that matter, is NOT Jesus' fault! I have to keep in mind, that my sin is NO DIFFERANT then this mans. And if you were honest with yourself, you would say the same thing. God says SIN IS SIN.......PERIOD. WE, as HUMANS classify it as "levels" of sin. If you murder, its a sin, if you steal from the bubble gum machine, IT'S A SIN! Now back to Jesus. Ask yourself this question; What kind of king would CHOSE to wear a crown that bleeds and scars just to gain YOUR heart??? A TRUE KING THAT'S WHO!! Put YOUR faith in Him, He loves us with a love that goes far deeper then we can understand. He wants us to walk in HIS WAYS, NOT ours!! I'm sure i'm gonna get slammed by others for what I wrote, but that's ok, Jesus doesn't change, He still loves you, and as a follower to my Lord and Savior, I love you too :) Have a blessed day.
"livingsacrifice" - why do I need a savior? And if Jesus was sinless, then why did he repeatedly condone slavery? By the way, your silly god also says that men shaving their beards is a sin, eating shellfish is a sin, and women wearing cloths of mixed types is a sin. So, next time you wear lycra/spandex, you're only cementing your fate in hell.
By the way, the second half of your post was incoherent and delusional. Your Jesus-juice got really fired up somehow. I'd suggest you google "logic for beginners".
Mr. Sacrifice, you just plum dumb sum..
Speak for yourself dude, I don't need a mythical savior.
The quote at the end from Jesus Perez - "I know God put him in that position for a reason and what he did is a mistake, and God will forgive him," parishioner Jesus Perez said." That's right, it all happened for a reason, and he'll be forgiven. So the victim shouldn't be upset at all about anything I suppose.
Attitudes like that are symptomatic of the support network and the acceptance that sustains all these molesting religious leaders.
Another bible thumper bites the dust...
But these bible thumpers want to tell me how to live. My heathen children have a better moral compass
Hey, this dogma preaching bigot was just trying to get himself a piece of Chic-fil-a-poontang.
Give credit where it is due. The board of deacons – which is the ultimate authority in a Baptist church – conducted an internal investigation when suspicion arose. When they concluded that wrongdoing had occurred and it was illegal, they reported it to the police the next day. That is quite a contrast to some of the recent sex scandals.
They didn't report it because it was the "right" thing to do. They reported it because they didn't want to get sued.
What he did is wrong by today's laws, but rape and sex or abuse of a child is not wrong in the Bible.
And this is precisely why posters keep reminding that the United States is a SECULAR COUNTRY, and not governed by biblical truths, biblical laws, or just plain biblical bunk. The faithful of any denominational belief are governed by the laws adopted by the legislative processes in this country...that's it. This item in the news is about an adult having sex with a minor. The fact that he's a pastor, a plumber, or a post office pedophile is not relevant. In another case he might be a judge or a senator. Adults are not to have sexual relations with minors.
So why all of the diversions in the conversation about the subject? This is clearly a case where an adult in position of authority, abused his trust, to have sex with someone defined as underage for consensual sex. If it were a case where a minor was having sex with another minor, or an adult having non consensual sex with another adult, that would be a different legal issue.
So the Bible is not relevant to this case. One can pretend that it is...but it's not. What if this holy man was a Hindu? How would you use biblical law to prosecute this case in this country? You couldn't. So would you as a society allow Hindu holy men to have sex with minors, and prosecute all other religions for the same crime.
So instead of saying, " What is wrong with today's laws...", should be changed to read, " What is wrong with Bible verse as it applies to sexual crimes against minors in the United States." Then you carry on with your conversation, remembering that the purpose of this conversation is to protect minors from adult sexual predators.
Oh how shocking! Who could've predicted this? Oh yeah, everybody.
Religion = tax-exempt scam to part the gullible with their paychecks
To: brian-1903576, JJISNO1, johnny_concerned My the God of Heaven and earth BLESS YOU!!
I realized years ago, the mega-ministiies were handed down to members of the immediate family, they are the equivalent of the royalty of old, look at what we just witnessed at the Queen of England's Jubilee. No difference of Oral Robert's handing down his kingdom to Oral Robert's Jr, Robert Schuller;s ministry to his kid's, Jerry Falwells ministry to his son, Billy Graham's to his son, Pat Robertson to his son. Just substitute the Crystal Cathedral, Megachutch's, the Vatican for Castle's of old, and the serf's who brought their food to their king, and labored in the field's, modern day equivalent is tithing 10% to these Kingdom's. Their children are worshiped the same as Prince Charles, Prince William. Even Michael Jackson's kid's are raised up like royalty, he even named one son, Prince. People have a natural tendency to follow Charismatic people, that's why the USA has so many cult's from Polygamy, to Aimee Semple McPherson's following in the early century (Milton Berle's is said to have had an affair with her) , to Jim Jones Jamestown.
It's called keeping money coming into the family. Nice job, ain't it.
I have to agree with this. But what you describe is an abuse of what was originally intended to be honest and pure. I've always looked at the multi-million dollar buildings these big churches "worship" in and wondered at the waste and senselessness of it, knowing that the same millions could have fed the needy, given medicine to the poor, bought clothes for the indigent. Greedy people have hijacked the good message and victimized so many honest and sincere people.
@cc GWRider Thanks for the post I think you were pretty spot on!
I have never been a fan of "mega-churches". Especially those that are constantly asking for money for this or that. My advice regardless of denomination find (or start) a small church where you can know nearly everybody , where you can know your church leader (pastor) more closely where there can be honest decent where you can participate directly in church affairs. Where when you go to the mall or out to the movies and you see your fellow congregant you can share a level of fellowship you can't find in a church with 10,000 members.
remember God is love ...not hate!
They are following the teaching of the Sanherin crucifying Christ in modern times leading followers to the gates of hell no the gates of heaven.
Yes, Franklin Graham has taken up the ministry for Rev Billy Graham but if you'll read their story Franklin strayed away from God for a few years. He became a motorcyle riding, druggie but yet he knew what he was doing was wrong so he asked God and his father, Rev Graham, for foregiveness. You have to want foregiveness, in order to receive it. I'm still not a perfect person but I asked God for foregiveness and truly believe I've been foregiven.
Ed: Where in the bible does it say motorcycle riding is a sin?
I think Ed got it from the movie Easy Rider.