I'll be honest. I did not see this coming...

Nothing todo with honor or Justice, plea deal in the making, no death penalty.

This also spares him the "life without parole" that is what happens when you are adjudged insane. You get treated a lot better in prison than you do in a "hospital" (warehouse) for the criminally insane.

Hannibal Lector.

I guess I like to think the best of people sometimes-- you're all probably right. Just business as usual in the justice system-- blech. Still-- glad for the families that they'll avoid a trial. May it somehow bring them some peace in a horrible situation.

DKJ-4 is right. As soon as the "I'm crazy" defense failed, he took the plea quick, and for that reason. He killed a lot of people, including a Federal Judge. When he was ruled competent to stand trial, I'm sure that was on the minds of him and his defense team. Lock him up and let him rot and be forgotten, and those who died and were wounded be the ones we remember.

An honorable move-- spares the families the pain of a trial. Glad to hear this.

Sorry to disagree Marla--but nothing about this person, nothing he can say or do, is "honorable."

I definitely did not expect this. I thought that his lawyers would try and get him off on temporary insanity. I guess there must have been some pretrial rulings that were going to make that extremely difficult to pull off. I can not see him getting anything other than life without parole. Since AZ has the death penalty my guess is that the plea bargain allows him to live out his life on the taxpayers dime in prison instead of being executed. At least it spares all of his victims and their families, as well as the families of those who were killed the trauma of going through a trial.

Sorry to disagree Marla--but nothing about this person, nothing he can say or do, is "honorable."

Well, I suppose you're right-- sighh. It's no doubt business as usual, as I stated above.

An honorable move-- spares the families the pain of a trial. Glad to hear this.

He blew away 6 people including a 9 year old girl. But now he's made an "honorable move" I guess we should all have sympathy for him. Now that I'm thinking about it Sandusky is probably just misunderstood and James Holmes was just having a bad day.

This evil jerk kills 6 people including a 9 year old girl and a Federal Judge and wounds a congress woman also...

Here is my personal opinion ....and let me be very clear....

Execute him and I can admit I do not want one red cent of my money feeding housing or clothing this person for any amount of time. We all know he did it.

Eye for and Eye!

Honor has absolutely nothing to do with it... the death penalty is off the table now. He is guilty, that much we know beyond a shadow of a doubt, so it is very likely he would have gotten the death penalty if tried and subsequently convicted.

His attorneys planned this very carefully to avoid the death penalty. I'm disappointed, because in my opinion, the death penalty is too good for this POS.

Let's pray your beautiful son doesn't get bipolar or some other mental illness. The situation is horrible, but Loughner himself is also a victim. If you and the State thinks he is responsbile for those deaths, why do you think the prison forcibly put him on medication????? Think dummy. Because they knew his brain is sick and the only way he could deal with reality is to be forcibly medicated....yes forcibly medicated. If he was forcibly medicated and treated as soon as his family, school, friends, neighbors, or colleague saw his behavior and atttitude started to change and become weird and stranged this could have been avoided. YOu are also responsible for those peoples deaths as a citizen ....why? because you did not do anything? YOu didn't practice your civic responsibility to help those who can not help themselves. Since one and four Americans are diagnosed with a mental illness annually let's pray then one one of your family members develop a mental illness you will have become enlightened and know what to do. If you son get's it pray it is before he become 18 years old so you can get him the help that his sick brain will tell him that he doesn't need. Loughner's parents should sue the hell out of Arizona. Not defending the young man, but he is a victim too let's not forget that. Those deaths and injuries are also a failure of society, the State of Arizona to provide adequate protection to all of its residents including those with mental illnesses.

Not defending the young man

Of course you are

monique, he was an adult, how do you administer meds to an adult that can choose not to take them???

when someone's not a threat, which he wasn't until he snapped, his parents, friends, whoever, can't force an adult to do anything they don't want to do.

it's a glitch in the system that needs to be dealt with.

Monique, Loughner will also be forceably raped over and over for decades. Mental illness is no reason to excuse someone for murdering all those people and a little girl included. You have a sick mind and need to take your meds voluntarily if you actually believe what you wrote.

Marla-3071717, I understand what you were intending to express. Unfortunately, as you can no doubt see from the posts to this thread which followed yours, it is pointless to express a civil thought, or attempt to engage in moderate dialog on Newsvine. It will only get you crucified and lambasted with incivility and insults.

I am afraid that nasty, aggressive rhetoric is a sign of our times, as well as being cowardly and juvenile abuse of on-line anonymity.

I don't know if I would take it as far as "honorable", but I do agree that it would be nice if he plead guilty, thus saving the victims from having to re-live the horrors they went through on the stand.

he look's like Uncle Fester's long lost son...

They could lock up him, Sandusky, OJ, and the Joker in the same cell for life. Now, that would be justice served...

Obviously you don't know anything about those kind of mental illnesses. So let me enlighten you a little....I am still learning myself, but what is why illnesses such as the one Loughner has developed is so difficult to treat and to get people with it medicated is that one of the sympton's of those diseases is that the people can't really see or understand that they are sick...the illness tricks them into thinking that everything they think and do is perfectly normal. They can't see or understand their judgement is impaired....that is a sympton of the disease. Call your local chapter of National Association of Mental Illness (NAMI) if you don't believe me. What do you think happened to the guy who shot up the movie theater? Unlike physical illnesses where symptons are often related to some kind of pain or discomfort that warns you that something is not right, mental illnesses such as bipolar and skisofrenia (sp???) tricks the mind into thinking that they are behaving and thinking normal and they are not. Loughner's illness left untreated for a long time turned him into a walking time bomb. Unfortunately, with his kind of illnesses the legal and medical system should have made it easier for him to be forcibly evaluated and then focibably medicated so they could explain to him his illness and how to manage it. Do you think it is strange the media chooses not to show you pictures of Loughner after he has been forcibly medicated? Why because you will see he is now behaving normal on medication. Of course he might plea guilty. On medication he would behave normal. He would have a conscience. You may not have to worry about executing him...if you left a gun in his room or poision he may even kill him ownself. Who could live with himself after such a tragedy or knowing the severity of the mental illness they have. Even though he may now understand what he did and why he did it he will also feel he was not in control. If he chose not to and many do because there is no cure and finding the right medication combination for a person that restores them back to a full life or normalcy is like playing lottery they should be place in a structured environment where their medication intake can be monitored and they can still live a normal life and not be a threat to themselves and others. Not all people who have mental illnesses become violent. Get involve...change the legal system and medical system to get help to people before these kind of tragedies occur...this one could have been avoided.

All he is doing is trying to avoid the hangmans noose. His lawyer told him that there are too many eye witnesses and if he tries to fight it, loses and found guilty he would get the death penalty. This way he stays off of death row. Such a coward. Too bad the guy coming out of the store with his concealed weapon didn't kill him when he had the chance. Could of saved us taxpayers a boat load of money that has been wasted trying this POS.

He looks even crazier than the Joker.

You know, Monique, I absolutely believe someone in trouble needs to get attention. But, honey, you're a bleeding heart. He, himself, probably knew something was wrong, and didn't STEP UP and seek help, no matter what his family or friends did, he knew something was wrong. Our society, especially in Tucson, (I grew up there), while being polite is very good at letting you know something is off.

Personal responsibility for our actions. When does that come into play? Even the most autistic child realizes that there are good actions and bad actions and they are shown from day one.

Also, how is that 9 year old girls family going to feel if he doesn't feel justice? That's also a LIFE LONG thing for them. I'd much rather err on the side of HER family, than give him a break.

And, our non-justice system strikes again. The shootings occurred over a year ago, and this turd hasn't even entered a plea yet. As in the case of thr Aurora incident, there is no doubt who did what to whom. This guy should have been charged, tried, convicted, and executed long ago.

@Monique:

That is a very dangerous way of seeing things. When people can be locked up, forcibly drugged, and monitored for life because someone like you suspects that they "might" do something wrong-- well, you yourself mentioned that this includes about 1/4 the population, which comes to about 75 million people. Are you suggesting that 75 million citizens should be treated this way because they "might" do something wrong? Do you know what it's called when you imagine that 75 million people are so potentially dangerous that they should be treated like that? It's called "paranoia" and is itself a mental illness. Get help before YOU hurt someone, please, by becoming a crusader for an idea so whacked out that even the dictator of North Korea would admire it.

You gotta love the 3 name address. Feeds right into conspiracy theorists dream juice IV tube.

Time to start the George Michael Zimmerman chant? I can hear the count & feel the rhythm.

Uh 1, uh 2, uh 1, 2, 3, 4...

But back on topic...

This is no surprise. Even the timing is right.

And just to finish pizzing some folks off...

Laughner is a product of Faux Nuze.

This guy really screwed up.... with that face, he could have made a fortune in horror movies!

It's painfully obvious that the majority of you people commenting have no clue how mental illness works. The only reason why this guy was forcibly medicated because he was found to be a danger to himself and others and it happened so he could be lucid enough and understand what was going so he could face his accusers. If he were allowed to sit in a hospital without it, more likely than not, he would never get to a point where he would actually understand what was going on.

When a person is found to be a danger to themselves or to society, they have no rights. They can (and should) be committed.

The problem here is that our system for treating mental illness is abysmal. You can't force someone to get help, even though they are clearly in need of help if they refuse to. You can have someone stalking you but you can't do anything about it unless they attempt to harm you or themselves.

Educate yourselves on mental illness before you play armchair judge and psychiatrist. Some people with certain types of mental illness either don't know something is wrong with them or don't think there is anything wrong with them.

Robert in Oregon-- thank you for your post. Yes, I'm aware of the goings on in here. My goal is to simply continue to engage in civil discourse. I can disagree without hate, debate without venom. I detest the cowardice, immaturity and hypocrisy of many on these boards-- but, I'm responsible simply for my little corner of the world-- so I'll continue to post my thoughts.

Attack at will, people-- what Loughner did was horrible. What would be even more horrible is dragging everybody through a trial. The honorable thing to do is take responsibility for your actions instead of forcing the prosecutor to prove guilt. I don't care his motives. I care bottom line-- it was more honorable than forcing a trial.

Marla, I don't think it is impossible that your first post was wrong. It may be that, with medication and treatment, he feels remorse for what he did. Even the worst people are not always 100% evil, just as the best people are not 100% good. We do not know what his motives are; perhaps even he does not know, completely, what his own motives are. But is it possible that he could feel remorse having obtained treatment? Yes, it is. I wouldn't be discouraged by people who claim to be 100% positive that it is impossible for him to feel remorse or have honor. Unless they have special godly powers, they do not know what he is capable of thinking and feeling anymore than you are, and all they can do is speculate and offer opinions like everyone else.

Mary, agreed-- I opined below that even the most evil among us is capable of an occasional good action. I don't know his heart. I don't know anything about him except what I read. I just believe that the action of pleading guilty is better than forcing a trial.

sane central claims he is a product of faux news but it has been reported from interviews with his friends that he is an independent who was infatuated with 9-11 conspirocy theories blaming George Bush. His friends also said his anger would well up at the sight or mention of Bush. Other friends all say the same thing about his use of LSD, marijuana, and various other drugs. He seemed to have some sort of infatuation with Giffords but when she wouldn't respond to his crazy emails he increasingly grew angry with her as well. Doesn't sound like a right winger to me.

Sounds like insane central is just another far left wing troll.

@ Seven2Seven,

Totally agree, the sooner the better!

Dave, I haven't heard any of what you are saying about Bush and 9-11, etc. I live in Arizona and haven't seen any of this in the local news. Would you please give some links to support your claims? If what you say is true then this guy is just flat out nuts.

Did the target that Palin put on Tucson influence him? That is the question.

If he was sick then he should not serve the time in a prison, he should go to a mental facility. His getting treatment and feeling guilty now will not serve him well in 1 year or 10 years from now. Im not saying I feel for this guy but if he was sick?

If our Government refuses to change the gun laws, then they need to open again the mental institutions for the ill. Having both on the loose will only create many more of these type of shooting events.

People with schizophrenia need to be medicated, or else, denied access to automatic weapons.Wishing death on the mentally ill does not accomplish anything. There are many homeless people out there that served our country, and are mentally ill.They served in the military, and many don't have proper mental care.

The NRA needs to open centers to help the mentally ill. They certainly have the money to do it. Of course, they never will.

If the judge accepts the guilty plea, then the sentence would be determined later, after another hearing.

and we wonder why our country is going broke...

Life, or life without parole: it does not matter. No parole board will ever issue an order to parole this man, any more than they would for Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, or any member of the Manson family.

No Monique, this is not a failure of society nor should his parents sue Arizona. You are wrong. His parents should have been using a condom.

Ok, so now it's time to kill him at a public hanging on TV at prime time so people,including children, can see there are consequences for thier actions....might make other future wackos reconsider.....Right along side this murderer should be the other murderer from Aurora.....NO question as to guilt..kill them now,and save us some money.............U.S. Army Disabled Veteran

They must have finally stuffed enough 'happy pills' into Jack the Ripper so he might remember that he's a human living on planet Earth. Something he didn't know a year ago. I'll bet he doesn't have that same sh-t eating grin on his face when they strap him to that table in the execution room. The sooner his DNA is removed from the planet the better.......

I agree with msannomalley, monique, and Irespond. Of course he did the act, everyone saw that and he admits it. And as much as it pains us, he is not guilty. The reason he is not guilty is because he is insane. He is not capable of doing 'honorable' things in the since that we know it. It's my opinion that he is even incapable of deciding whether to plead 'guilty' or 'innocent'.

What I see is a consistent pattern is human society in which one of these individuals are produced every two or thee years or so.Their easy access to high powered weaponry makes them even more dangerous.

As a society we must be more effective in identifying and treating these people before they can harm themselves or others.

Good, so put him away, and we will save more stupid government play on words in a trial,

So then we can move over to the almost 2000 people and children the USA police has shot and killed since then, let us get a new company with non police connections investigate (from another western country), and then simply show the facts in court, instead of coached special wording as usual, with rich peoples lawyers and police defence lawyers "fixing the trials" with "specific selected wording" almost always sounds the same in those trials.

Let us get them in jail instead of having a police state with 10 times more killings by police compared to most western countries.--

Or at least take all their "carry" guns away, like say the UK, and the police killing will drop dramatically!

@Marla

I understand what you were trying to convey in your first comment. "Honorable" may not have been the best choice of words to describe his "choice" to plead guilty, but I get your point. Finding the best word to describe the "good" or "glad to hear it" part about his decision is difficult at best. Especially when we want to be the first to comment about an article.

justwonderin

Ok, so now it's time to kill him at a public hanging on TV at prime time so people,including children, can see there are consequences for thier actions....might make other future wackos reconsider.....Right along side this murderer should be the other murderer from Aurora.....NO question as to guilt..kill them now,and save us some money.............U.S. Army Disabled Veteran

It is of course possible this guy was whacked out of his mind with paranoid schizophrenia at the time of the crime, and now after months on meds realizes what he did, and wishes to plead guilty, not only to avoid the death penalty, but because he knows it's the right thing to do. I have a brother with schizophrenia, and they do things off their meds that they don't control, often violent. It's a shame we don't have the ability in this society to keep them off the streets before they do something (after acting out, of course, at the onset of the disease). Instead we put them in prisons for their first violent offenses, don't actually treat them (although the system will claim they do), and then force them back onto the streets even if they beg not to be released, via halfway houses and families ill-equipped to deal with their illnesses.

Also, I think the people calling for public executiuons, especially in front of children, are sicker than my brother. In front of children? You need to have your kids taken away, clearly. You are sick. Justice is supposed to be about removing people from society that can't be trusted around others, not revenge. If it's about revenge, then why not bring lynching back? Of course some you would love that, as evidenced for your calls for it in the Casey Anthony case, this case, the O.J. case, and the Batman movie shooter case. How quickly we forget the last public execution in this country...where a lot of innocent people got hung in Louisiana because they were the wrong nationality (immigrants), and the real criminals happened to be their nationality.

There's a reason why civilized societies don't publically execute anymore...it's barbaric and sick. Just violence-porn for the disturbed bloodlust crowd. And there's a reason why many nations abolished the death penalty...it doesn't deter any murders (not anymore than a life sentence), and therefore is not a preventative measure, but instead a form of vengeance (they are no longer a threat to society once in custody, and it costs more to execute them than keep them for life - and surely we don't want to abolish the appeal system...if you want more efficient law, then end the state monopoly on it, and you'll see less 'lines around the block' in courtrooms), and serves as a bargaining tool for criminals and prosecutors which cheats victims' families of trials (that otherwise would occur in the absence of such a penalty) that helps the closure in the grieving process.

If you want to have less cushy prison stays (get rid of cable, make them labor, etc.), then I'm with you. But if you want kids to witness a person dying, you're a sick person. That will have lasting mental scars for kids...and not to make them less violent. Psychopaths either witness violence, are victims of violence, or perpetrate violence at young ages. You're making a recipe for more violent criminals, not less, to have kids witness executions. Go to foreign countries where children witnessed genocides and see how that experience worked out...they don't become less violent for it.

Some people are just stupid...plain old unintelligent. Read a child psychology book, dumbies. I'm tired of people calling for executions, especially public ones, and especially where kids view them. Get out of the Dark Ages, grow up, and get the vengeance out of your heart. And the fact you then tell us you're a Veteran tells what war does to warp minds. Your bloodlust is probably in no small part to the violence you've seen in your life. You're hateful and vile, and you make me sick. Your service to the state in wars that likely weren't in self defense (not many of our wars are) doesn't lay cover for your sociopathic cheerleading for murder by proxy (hiring the state to kill for you when it's not DIRECT self defense).

But I'm sure everyone thinks you're worthy of applause, as they worship in the same cult of death you do.

Mary and Marla, I must disagree with you on the points of honor and those not 100% evil. This was not honor, it was life saving for Loughner. He knew he was caught and cooked. This is the only way he could save his life. It wasn't honor, it was self preservation. Some people ARE 100% evil. I know this may be difficult for many to comprehend, but I have actually met some. They spend every waking moment planning, plotting and enacting some bit of meanness, violence, self gratification, vile behavior, nasty intentions and a whole other lot of badness. They have no saving grace, NONE. They are not insane or mentally deficient, they are evil; and there's a difference.

I respect that you have your points of view; but I think your scope may be a little narrow. Mine may be, too. I'm not fingerpointing. I would certainly wish that all would continue on a even and level-headed discourse, and that we all try to educate ourselves a little more. So many on these vines seem to lean toward the negative instead of the positive. I've read so many negative reactions, that sometimes I fear for all of us. The verbal attacks are certainly unnecessary, and it's okay to agree to disagree. Certainly, not all agree with me!

(Recently on a whole other vine, folks were trying to "legislate" how many times one could go to the restroom during work hours. Some of the responses were so "narrow in scope" that it boggled the mind. And the nasty remarks associated with discussion were just out there. So please Mary and Marla, don't take it personally, it's just people venting because they can't find a positive thought.)

As far as Loughner goes, the judge has yet to rule on his plea. The judge may determine that a trial is necessary, and Loughner may still get a death penalty. I don't know. I'm not in favor in housing this monster for the rest of his life. I think the death penalty is justified in this case. The same goes for the murders in Colorado. However, I have no authority over those decisions. I suppose we will all need to wait and see what our legal system decides.

justwonderin

Ok, so now it's time to kill him at a public hanging on TV at prime time so people,including children, can see there are consequences for thier actions....might make other future wackos reconsider.....

Or maybe not.

Capital punishment as a consequence of murder does not deter future murders, despite long-standing arguments to the contrary, said Columbia law professor Jeffery Fagan, who presented his findings on the deterrent effects of the death penalty at a Criminal Law Colloquium Series lecture April 6.

“I have some doubts about the validity of the causal story about deterrence, particularly given what we understand about murder, which is impulsive,” he said. “Murderers themselves often have cognitive impairments, the kind of impairments that could stem from organic brain damage, could stem from a lifetime of abuse, could stem from substance abuse, alcohol—any one of a number of factors.”

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2006_spr/fagan.htm

Public executions would blur the line between justice and entertainment. Haven't we already blurred that line enough?

Proindividual;...first off,..I realize you're a troll,and sorry about your brother,but......Having been a police officer as well as being in the service,I've seen life from the dark side,not from the flower-power side of mommy's basement,as you have....I have seen up close young kids,8 years old get picked up for pulling a knife on another,saying ;'I'm gonna stick you,and nobody's going to do anything about it".....all we could do for them is bring them to the station,and call thier parents,and hope they would get counseling,or at least,smack his ass....instead of a 'time-out'...as for causing childrens mental scars,..there was an incident at my grandaughters school , where a 12 year old brought a machete to school to get back at some kids who were bullying him...alot of kids had to witness the way the police had to stop him....I've seen kids who think life is a game of 'Grand theft auto"...and if they kill someone,they hit "replay"...life's not like that....I've seen men beat thier wives,and girlfriends into the ICU,....and the women don't want to press charges,because,"we love him".....then 3 weeks later,we're sending a rig to pick up her battered,dead, body,....and he goes and sits in a cushy cell,reading law books,and extending his useless life through appeals.....We are rapidly heading towards a society where criminals,..or sick patients,as you would like to call them,have more rights,and alot longer life spans than thier victims.........so...sorry,....if you end someone else's life for no reason,you should be removed from the planet too.............U.S. Army Disabled Veteran.....

I'm not a troll...trolls don't waste time on such long posts. Especially ones that aren't copies and pastes. Look up what a troll is before you label me so quickly. But thanks for starting off your response with an ad hominem attack (attacking the debater, not the debate in question...an informal logical fallacy). When you ad hominem in debate you raise a white flag of surrender immediately. In high school debate class such a tactic is not allowed.

Your opinion is not surpising...very authoritarian, and probably why you chose the job you did...sadism.

Your former job should be privatized so you'd have to compete in the free market with other providers of security...then you couldn't have depeneded on extortion (taxes) to pay your guaranteed salary...you'd have to depend on good customer service. See coerced monopolies have inevitably higher costs, lower quality service, and nearly no accountability, if any.

Now that is out out of the way...

I'm a libertrian, not a hippie, cop. I'm also more free market and small govt than you'll ever be. I've also carried more than one casket for children, adult firends who were murdered, and some who overdosed on drugs (legal and illegal). Don't dare assume you know so much about me...I've seen the hard part of life to, and survived it. But it didn't make me an authroitarian a-hole who pre-supposes people are "flower-power" hippies just because they stand up for ethics in philosophy. You know, ethics, aka morals?

Murder by proxy (hiring the state to murder for you out of revenge) is still murder.

I'm quite sure I've buried more friends to gun murder, knife murder, and by being beaten to death, than you have. I'm quite sure you have no idea that I live in my own home that I own and paid off in cash with poker winnings, as I'm a professional gambler. I'm quite sure i make more money than you, and I'm quite sure that drives your authoritarian, anti-liberty rear end crazy. I'm also sure that you enforce unconstitutional drug laws (there is no Amendment to the Constitution that allows federal drug laws), and fully support them out of pure ignorance. Did you know the flu kills 33% more people than all illegal drugs combined every year in this country? Did you know the flu kills 66+% more people in this country annually than gun murder?

I know you didn't, because you don't bother to look it up. You're too busy with your lack of logic and lack of reason, and the authoritarian lack of morals that results from it.

You talk about an 8 year old wanting to stab another kid...soundsl ike that kid needed to be separated from society until he was treated via therapy, and his parents needed investigating...as someone is usually abusing a violent child...hence, they turned violent. Look up psychology and the crime stats correlated to child abuse and child violence, cop.

You need better laws concerning HARM and FRAUD...nothing more. You don't need more funding. You don't need more authority to pre-empt violence before it happens. You need laws to force these violent people into therapy, and to be separated from society until they are well. My rule of them, presumptuous friend, is that if someone can't be released under their own control and immediately be restored to their full rights as a citizen, including buying a gun immediately after release, then they need to be NOT released, and kept away from the rest of society. The problem today is we release people who we can't trust to have a gun...as if that's good for society. If they can't be trusted to have a gun, why did you release them, geniuses? Also, if we weren't filling our prisons up with about half nonviolent offenders for drug "crimes", then we'd have room to keep the violent ones longer. But folks like you happily enjoy the job security making drug arrests on nonviolent people, neddlessly ruining millions ofl ives a year, instead of asking for something like ending the drug war, or ETHICALLY taking a stand and refusing to enforce unconstitutional and tyrannical drug laws on adults. If you had any ethics, you'd refuse to enforce such tyranny against your fellow citizens, even if it meant your job, or even jail time.

Real heroes aren't authoritarians working for monopolies...they're people who go to jail for Civil Disobedience (you know, like in the Civil Rights Movement, women's suffrage movement, etc.).

You tell me a story about a violent child at a school...and blame it on video games like millions of other kids don't play the same game and yet don't do violent things. It never occured to you as a law enforcement professional (again, this is why we need your job privatized, as in the market competition you'd be forced to be better educated at your job, or lose it) that the violent child is likely being abused, witnessing abuse, or already a perpetrator of abuse because he's a sociopath. You don't even know almost every single sociopath (2-5% 0f the population of citizens) are abused or witness abuse as kids. You just chalk it up to a game that millions of people play and yet hurt no one.

You going to blame suicide on Ozzy Osbourne and Judas Priest next, genius?

I have two huge scars on my ribcage from a month in the hospital...two puncture holes. Save the stories about ICU...I lived it. That's why I bothered studying it. Maybe if your job was like every other industry, you would too...so you could keep your job.

If you want the jail experience to be less pleasent, then start asking your police union to focus on getting cable TV revoked from prisons, and forced labor to be apart of prison...to pay some money to victims hopefully, along with paying for some of the costs of their imprisonment. If they want books to read, they better work. If they want commisary, they better work...period. Instead your union is busy extorting the taxpayer for more money...even though there is no profit margain in government for you to get a "fair share" of, and even though private security in a free market would do what you do better, and for less. If private security is good enough for Brinks Trucks, it's good enough for me.

If you don't want an appeal system, you don't believe in having a system where we'd rather have 100 guilty men go free rather than imprison 1 innocent man (which we already fail at miserably, as I've seen one man go to prison twice for 2 years each time for crimes I KNOW he didn't commit, because I was with him when they said he commited those crimes, and we were far away from the place they said he was at...and instead of believing me and a dozen other witnesses, they tried to charge us with perjury - unsuccessfully - for testifying on his behalf). We developed this ystem of law in critique of ENglish law and the witch hunts that occured in the early colonial period. How quickly we forget John Adams defended - succesfully - the English soldiers at the Boston Massacre. He was hated for it at the time, but later resapected for being a man who believed in justice in law. You need to focus on jsutice, not revenge and lynch mobbery. Ot's clear you as a cop want to speed up appeals prcesses, as do I. So privatize that system too...because there is a reason Soviets stood around the block for hours for toilet paper and food...because the state had a monopoly on production and distribution of those services and goods. If the state coercively monopolizes law, you will always have a slow and inefficient, expensive, and unaccoutable system with bad service. If privatized, the system would never be as bogged down as it is now, and therefore appeals processes would go faster by a matter of years.

You want people to have no rights because they're criminals...and i agree they deserve less...but to say they shouldn't have any, like you are, or to say they should't have rights to due process (appeals are due process as well), presumption of innocence, or access to therapy if they aren't sociopaths (who are incurable), is tyrannical nonsense not befitting a free society. if iwas your boss I'd fire you for such comments against the fundamentals of our justice system and laws. It doesn't suprise me thoug...everything you've said is authoritarian.

Guess who else are authoitarian like you? Criminals. They wish to force people to do things against their will, like you. Did you know police are disprortionately sociopathic when compared to numbers in the general population? Did you know politicians are as well? Did you know people join your line of work when they're sociopaths precisely because they want to laud power over others and abuse authority? Did you know essentially that cops and crooks come from the same psychological pool? Authoritarianism is a mental disorder...hence why so many authoritarians are violent sadists.

Now for more facts, you obviously don't know:

Vioent crime is down in this country, both per capita and in total, even in the recession. So is nonviolent crime. So is property crime. Life spans at are all time highs (so there goes your victims' life spans are suffering argument). All crime is down, gun ownership and permit to carry issuance is up, and yet lifespand are rising. But to you we need to take away due process in order to solve problems your inept employer (the state) is causing to begin with. You think more statism and authoritarianism is the answer to every problem...because you have no real ethics beyond the statist law. You probably haven't a clue about natural law, utilitarianism, the relationship between philosophical ethics and lega ltheories, etc.

Facxt is, you aren't too bright and you like force to solve problems. You can't understand why society can never be safe if it is to be free, and that freedom is worth more than safety...because nothing makes us less safe than authoritarianism seeking safety...because that's when people like you run things. It doesn't work out so well...police states, like we're approaching (if not already living in), end in fascism, and are born in populism....and then people like you kidnap us and take us off to death camps. No thanks. I'll take a justice system over a revenge system. I'll choose ethics over statutory law. I'll choose liberty over safety, every single time.

Your cheerleading for the death penalty shows a fundamental flaw in your ethics (or lack thereof). It's logically just murder by proxy (hiring the state to murder someone, no longer a threat to society while in custody, for you). That makes you a proxy murderer. But I'm not suprised..again, you come from the same psychological pool as the murderers. You're a sadist.

And again, stop using your status as a veteran as a signature. You probably fought in a war NOT in self defense of this country (I'm just playing the overwhelming odds because most of our wars by-far are not justifiably defensive, but instead are interventions abroad in other nation's affairs), so it's not some grand thing to be. You witnessed or perpetrasted horrible violence because the state (likely) sent you to die or watch firends die for no good justifiable reason. That made you a monster at an impressionable age, clearly. That's a shame. You require therapy...or is it too late for you? Either way, it skews your point of view. I'm sorry the state brainwashed you into believing you were "defending our freedoms" and that is was "heroic" to kill people who are no threat wahtsoever to our people....but that's no reason to keep buying that BS. If you, by chance, actually fought in WW2 or Afghanistans first 2 years (the only operations that were justifiable self defense of the country's populace), then you deserve my thanks and everyone's admiration...but if not, you got suckered into a traumatic even through state brainwashing, like lots of other yound men (and now women) do. It's not something that makes your opinion valid by sheer virtue of announcing it. If anything it shows why your opinions are skewed and flawed by the very trauma the criminals you hate were created by.

Violence creates people who think violence is okay.

This is why in order for libertarians like me to see a better world we have to encourage others, and do so ourselves, to raise kids without violence and threats. We shouldn't threaten kids with physical force or emotional abuse if they do bad things...we should rationally give them choices, and if they screw up, take away that which is a privilege (like TV, later bedtimes, their favorite toys, play dates with friends, outside time, etc.). They can choose to behave, or to face logical penalties. That's how you raise rational andl ogical nonviolent children...not by threatening them with spankings, timeouts, and screaming. Not by threatening them with myth stroies and eternal punishment via some angry man in the sky. I'm no atheist, but telling kids they need to do things or go to Hell is emotional abuse and a threat. Threats and physical abuse leads to violent adults.

I've raised kids this way. So have many of my libertarian firends...low and behold, our kids know how to defend themselves (my daughter, for example, has permit to carry a gun and is well trained in gun use and responsibilty), and none of them have violent criminal records...not even theft (as we view theft as a form of violence).

I'd bet dollars to donuts you weren't raised this way. I'd also bet you didn't raise your kids this way, if you have kids. I'd als bet you aren't willing to accept the truth in anything I've said...as your preconceived conclusion is I'm a "troll"...and as an irrational, illogical authoritarian, you'll just ignore any facts that disproce your worldview, and only accept that which re-enforces your conclusion.

I used to bel ike you...I changed. I used to be a violent criminal in my youth, although I was far too smart to get caught. I saw friends murdered, and I wanted to hate the world, grow cold, and retaliate. I suffered because of my actions. I almost died. And then I realized...I was wrong to be a statist, an authoritarian, and a criminal who took what he pleased by force. I educated myself, won a college scholarship (Iwas previously a high school dropout), and started working for a living. I then quit and started my own business (as a professional gambler). Decades later I'm still doing it...succesfully. I stopped listening to naysayers, critics, and know-nothing fools. When the state outlawed online poker I didn't go back to crime...I simply left the country. I'm leaving permanently in December for Uruguay (a country with no drug war, btw). I may even renounce my citizenship, as I'm tired of paying taxes to this murderous state who doesn't appreciate me or my career and the taxes it gets from that career. If they legalize poker in the next few years, I'll reconsider. Otherwise, as Ben Franklin said "Where there is liberty, that is my country." I figured out the world before it killed me, and it's unfortunate you haven't. It's figured you out instead.

BTW, I don't use drugs. I don't even eat sugar or drink caffeine...so save the next ad hominem attack for someone who doesn't know what they are.

U.S. citizen (for now), professional gambler, and proudly NOT a Vet of a foreign war that wasn't at all in self defense.

If your caught committing the crime,end it right then and there.End of problem,Cheshire,Ct. home invasion,Aurora Co,and the Gifford shooting.These killers are probably laughing at us because they are living free,no taxes,free education,medical,room and board.If it was my family I would do every thing I could to get them put down ASAP

I agree gunsafety, but those wacky killers won't find prison a 'bed of roses.' There are guys there crazier than them and after looking at the pictures of this idiot and the red haired clown in Aurora I would bet that they get the living hell beat out of them in prison. They WILL wish they had taken the death penalty if both are given life sentences. Both of these defects killed children. THAT doesn't sit well with prison inmates. Maybe both will finally meet their Maker at the hands of other Killers.

One can only hope.......

Monique and pro-individual make great arguments for putting this guy out os society's misery. Like the dog who mauls a child, some just aren't worth keeping. No matter the excuse.

6 people's lives ended that day. Gabby Gifford will never be the same. Kill him and be done with it. He's broken.

In reading these comments I have become very disheartened. Once again people are labeling everyone who suffers from Mental Illness into one big barrel and the stigmatism continues on. One of the things I feel as a person suffering from a Mental Illness is that people really need to get better educated about it. Just because you have a Mental Illness of any kind doesnt mean you are a potential killer, or mass murderer or anything of that nature. So when people such as this guy and the guy who shot people at the movie theatre etc. are labeled insane they attack all people suffering from Mental Illness. And that is wrong.

For starters dont get me wrong - as someone here said there are evil people in this world - just pure evil and I dont understand their head space at all. And in no way do I excuse this guy from any kind of punishment because he is mentally ill - I feel he is evil. But firstly he knew full well that taking this plea would get him off the death penalty. That is why he did it - no honour for him there. The second myth is that it costs more to keep people in jail than it does to execute them. While they sit on death row for pretty much 20 years with appeal after appeal after appeal waiting to be put to death the cost of that far exceeds life in prison. I am Canadian and we dont have the death penalty and in the beginning I agreed with that cause a lot of innocent people were being put to death for crimes they didnt commit. But now with DNA I would agree with the death penalty for people such as this guy. But we are way too easy on crime here so we will never see the death penalty again. But I do understand what that woman is trying to say about the people that do suffer from Mental Illness that do kill people. I suffer from Clinical Depression which is bad enough but is completely treatable with medications and I have had a fairly normal life. Mainly because I have had help for 40 years which keeps me stable and has allowed me to hold down a job and raise 3 kids on my own for 26 years and they turned out to be wonderful kids. But Bi-Polar and Schitz (spell) are a whole other ballgame and I have witnessed many people suffering from those first hand and it is terrible. People walking hearing voices in their head until it almost drives them crazy and yes there are medications for it but they usually go off of them because of the side effects - when taking the meds they are like zombies unable to function much at all. And in my case I dont have that but mine cause tremendous weight gain so I too have foolishly gone off them because of that but have learned my lesson. And how does a person - a parent, a doctor whatever make a grown person take their meds. You cant. As a parent you see the signs, you know your child needs help, you reach out and try and get them help but they will not get it. My son has Clinical Depression too at 33 and it took me years to try and get him help and finally he did and he will never not take his meds again because he sees the difference on them and off them. I have seen Bi-Polar people in action and when they are manic they are they suffer a great deal and they go for days without sleep and then they crash. And usually they too dont like the side effects of the meds so they go off of them. So how as a society do we fix this. I wish I had the answer - but the whole point of my post is to say to not label every person with Mental Illness as a potential killer or a threat to society cause that just isnt the case. Some slip through the cracks and this happens so where does the blame go. I dont tell people that I have Depression only my family and close friends know and I dont tell anyone because right away I would be stigmatized and couldnt get a job and people would see me coming and say *oh here comes that crazy woman* - and I have always lived under that umbrella for almost 50 years which I dont think is fair. But suffering from a Mental Illness should not mean that a guy like this should ever be put on the streets and that he is curable cause he isnt and he should pay the ultimate price for his crimes. Just dont lump me in the barrel with him okay.

After the guilty plea is entered, push a button and make this guy go away !

Also include the poster " ProIndividual-3906907 "

so all those people going...oh it wasnt a politically motivated shooting because the guy is crazy...this is my i told you so dance.

now sit down, shut your mouth, and contemplate your beliefs. people like you arent fit to participate in a democracy.

SHar, everyone is not putting everyone in the same barrel. Once you have killed a child as this monster has, you are no longer human though. I don't care if he claims remorse or is soooo sorry for what he's done. He no longer serves a good and useful purpose in this world and should be removed from it. Most people with mental illnesses would never do this, most people with his, supposed, mental illness would not do this but he has and he is not honorable as Marla stated. He is doing it to save his own skin. It would have been more honorable for him to have blown his head off after he murdered those people or even better, to have never shot eighteen people. There is no excuse for what he's done, not mental illness not anything nor should he be given sympathy, he is a monster. I feel sorry for his victims and their families and I even feel sorry for his family but not him.

@Marla, Monique and whomever else thinks this guy has a mental illness....

So every person who kills another person now automatically has a mental illness and should live out their lives in a prison cell while the person(s) they killed lays dead in the ground? I could believe the mental illness thing if it wasn't premeditated, but he was aware of his actions before he did it. What he did was not honorable nor is pleading guilty honorable (I'll give you a hint, he pled guilty to spare himself from the death sentence he'd get since he wouldn't make it through a trial un-convicted of the crime he commited... any sane person would have done the same).

I agree, he's got issues (don't we all), but I'm sorry, if it was my 9 year old daughter that he pointed the gun at that day and pulled the trigger on... that man would not still be alive! I have the right to protect my family and wether he's insane or the next person that wants their 5 years of fame does it.. call it crazy, vengeance, justice or even an angry father's wrath someone should have taken him out at the time of his killings (why bother with the trial or wether he's guilty or not he's the one standing there holding the smoking gun).

Our society is going down hill fast, I'm honestly scared to see what my daughter will have to face when she gets to be my age. We are living in different times than what we were 50 years ago, maybe we need to go back to our roots and figure things out, there's a reason why things like this happen and I don't think it's mental illness... I think we were better off with prayer in schools, pledging allegiance to the flag and better discipline of the morals we are teaching our kids. If this offends you why are you living here and not some other country?

Crossix-- I never said I thought he had a mental illness. I think he's a disgusting murderer who must take responsibility for his crimes. Seems he has, to some degree. I'm not totally Pollyanna-- I know there is a legal motive. But, it still spares family members from a trial.

Beyond that-- I'm in agreement with you, pretty much across the board. I'd have loved to have seen someone in the crowd beat the life out of this man that day.

This young man suffers from a mental illness.I would not wish that on anyone.

The price tag to the taxpayer is cheaper for a life sentence than on death row...especially this one. I can't even BEGIN to imagine how long this would languish in the court system if he were put on death row.

Well you may find out what it is like......should you get a mental illness....such as Loughner. One and four American is diagnosed with a mental illness each year. Let's hope the odds are in your favor...insensitive and ignorant one. Then we will see how you cope with a mental illness that leaves you unaware that your judgement is becoming impaired and your behavior becoming weird and irrational....that could leave you falling out of the graces with society, unemployed, homeless, or even violent as the disease takes over your mind because you are not on medication and no one can get you to volunteer to take medicine because your mind keeps telling you are ok when everyone knows your brain is sick.

You ever wonder why MSN is showing pictures of him of what he looked liked after shooting untreated and not after he was forcibly put on medication. Because if you saw the before and after pictures of this young man you would see he had a mental illness that was left untreated... and people would question why wasn't he treated. Oh yeah that would be a different storyline and we would have also blame someone else for those people's death and injuries. While we can't bring back the people that he hurt, we have to also understand that the State of Arizona as well as Gifford herself who didn't fight for the rights of Arizona residents with mental illness are also equally responsible for these deaths for not giving this young man the help he needed. We need to make sure more Americans are helped and protected against their brain if it gets sick causing people to do things that they are not responsible for. His getting bipolar is no difference from some one getting leukemia, cancer, dementia, or high blood pressure. Let's pray you will know what to do if one of your love ones gets a mental illness and you will see how much help is out there for you in the medical, legal, and health institutions. Loughner's parents should sue the hell out of the State of Arizona for them not helping their son, for the deaths that resulted as a result and destroying their 23 year old son's life.

Barf to the Cleaning Lady and Monique. The only help he needs is a bullet to the brain but that would be far to nice. Are both of you F'in serious?? This guy like the other planned and MURDERED many people. I am not sorry for your individual mental illness or your familes mental illness. The Health section is a great tab to blog your issues. I wish him misery in prison beating his brains out on the cement walls....

One and four American is diagnosed with a mental illness each year. Let's hope the odds are in your favor...insensitive and ignorant one.

One in four Americans don't go on a killing spree. The odds are in his favor .... stupid and deceitful one.

Well now we know why in dealing with mental illness is not giving the same attention and respect as physical illnesses in the legal and medical systems ..because of ignorant and uneducated people such as yourself. The best way to protect society from these kind of tragedies is educate and make Americans aware of this growing health crisis and what they can do.

Mental illness means impaired judgement...and abnormal behavior...it doesn't mean theyl are stupid and can't think. You are right that everyone that develops a mental illness doesn't become violent. Actually is not very common but when it happens it is headline news and another reminder that there are flaws in our medical and legal system.

Monique must be IN LOVE with that LOW LIFE!! Maby someone can make araingements to have her show her UNDIEING LOVE for him!! The cleaning lady can be the MAID OF HONER!!

Monique...yes, we do leave our mentally ill people behind...just as we leave our physically ill people behind. It's cultural.

You said it yourself in this post...."It doesn't mean they are stupid and can't think"

He has a brain....he was an adult, therefore responsible for his actions.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

Monique I prefer to think that morons such as yourself are the real problem. There are a lot of places in the world were family deals with sick and disabled relatives. However here in the US idiots like you can't be bothered to take care of their family members. You would rather foist your family problems on the government and make the tax payer pay for them. Because of your stupidity you also fail to realize that the vast majority of people who are mentally ill do not go around killing people and those that do often show few warning signs in advance. However once it has been determined by a person's actions that said person is a danger to society, it's better just to off them and save the rest of us a lot of time and money.

@Monique:

You claim that a "sick brain" caused this. Can you please so us an MRI scan of Loughner's brain to prove your hypothesis? No, the MRI scan of the brain of a stranger will not do as evidence, nor will the dissected brain of a dead schizophrenic person in some lab on the other side of the country. Come on, please-- show us the medical evidence. Surely there is an established medical test to prove this sick brain theory on a patient-by-patient basis? What?? There isn't?? Gee golly gosh, Monique! Maybe you need to quit talking science until you can come up with one?

Ok, so we forceably medicate an adult that we have deemed to have a mental illness. What is next? Forceably medicating someone that votes for the wrong party? Where does it end?

The shooting of Gifford’s was just a cover-up of the intended victim. That intended victim was a Federal Judge named John Roll. He was about to issue two decisions which would have impacted the lives of two dishonest people severely.

There was a man lingering with this Jared weeks and days before the shooting. They met at a Denny's and they were seen at a Motel 6 on two occasions. It can be assumed that this unknown person provided the money to Jared with which he bought the expensive weapon and ammo plus the camera with which he photographed himself wearing bikinis and the motel bills and the food costs at Denny's and paid for the cab fare to and from his house and to the Safeway where he deliberately murdered people.

And never forget that this beast looked into the eyes of a NINE YEAROLD girl and shot her point blank in the chest. She died in the hospital without seeing her Mom or Dad before she left.

There can be no mercy for this beast. And there must be a renewal of the investigation because the target was Judge Roll not Gifford’s, she a just a convenience.

Why o Why is this SCUM BAG still alive..... Can anyone say CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.....

Ok, so we forceably medicate an adult that we have deemed to have a mental illness. What is next?

Hopefully the awareness that we need to be more vigilant with the mentally ill. The police has absolutely NO TRAINING in how to deal with mentally ill individuals. Why don't you read something about that? Stop trying to make this some sort of crusade for civil rights.

The fact is, that nobody forces medicine on you, unless you KILL PEOPLE.

http://www.cableweb.org/resources/the-dutiful-mind-police-training-in-dealing-with-the-mentally-ill

The shooting of Gifford’s was just a cover-up of the intended victim. That intended victim was a Federal Judge named John Roll. He was about to issue two decisions which would have impacted the lives of two dishonest people severely.

There was a man lingering with this Jared weeks and days before the shooting. They met at a Denny's and they were seen at a Motel 6 on two occasions. It can be assumed that this unknown person provided the money to Jared with which he bought the expensive weapon and ammo plus the camera with which he photographed himself wearing bikinis and the motel bills and the food costs at Denny's and paid for the cab fare to and from his house and to the Safeway where he deliberately murdered people.

And never forget that this beast looked into the eyes of a NINE YEAROLD girl and shot her point blank in the chest. She died in the hospital without seeing her Mom or Dad before she left.

There can be no mercy for this beast. And there must be a renewal of the investigation because the target was Judge Roll not Gifford’s, she a just a convenience.

Let me introduce you, conspiracy nut, to proabaility in mathematics. See...follow me now, don't get distracted by Alex Jones...it's far more likely the man was mentally disturbed and not a hired killer shooting a 9 year old and a Congresswoman to ge to some no-name Judge. Afterall, he's caught...so no amount of money is going to keep him from snitching now...conspiratard.

The fact is, that nobody forces medicine on you, unless you KILL PEOPLE.

Completely false. My brother has paranoid schizophrenia and is forced, by law on penalty of being jailed, to take medications for it. I'm not saying he shouldn't, but he never killed anyone. Tens of thousands of non-murderers in America have to take medication on the threat of being jailed if they don't.

Go look up the real facts, or go ask a mental health professional. Whatever your link says that conflicts with that reality is WRONG.

The fact that he's still alive explains the reason there are so many incidents of 'random acts of killing'. If the intention of the justice system were to discourage other cfriminal minds doing it in the future, he should have pied a horrible public death, much like his victims did. But here he is, after over a year, living a public life getting medical care, lawyers' advice food and bed without doing anything - prizes for his act!

Good point. I was also thinking that lawyers will lose a lot of $$$$$ not defending him and state prosecutors will also lose a lot of visibility...........Taking bets on whether he is allowed to plead guilty because too many have too much to lose.

The shooting of Gifford’s was just a cover-up of the intended victim. That intended victim was a Federal Judge named John Roll. He was about to issue two decisions which would have impacted the lives of two dishonest people severely.

There was a man lingering with this Jared weeks and days before the shooting. They met at a Denny's and they were seen at a Motel 6 on two occasions. It can be assumed that this unknown person provided the money to Jared with which he bought the expensive weapon and ammo plus the camera with which he photographed himself wearing bikinis and the motel bills and the food costs at Denny's and paid for the cab fare to and from his house and to the Safeway where he deliberately murdered people.

And never forget that this beast looked into the eyes of a NINE YEAROLD girl and shot her point blank in the chest. She died in the hospital without seeing her Mom or Dad before she left.

There can be no mercy for this beast. And there must be a renewal of the investigation because the target was Judge Roll not Gifford’s, she a just a convenience.

Josh: Who were the two people that Judge Roll was close to sentencing? What was their crime? Sounds like another conspiracy theory to me.

You dishonor all of the victims of this attack with your CT nonsense. He shot Giffords first at point blank range. She was the only target he knew, the rest were virtually unknown to him. We already knew he had a grudge against Giffords because she hadn't, in his warped opinion answered his question from a year before. The fact that doesn't make good sense to the rational mind is what distinguishes us from monsters like this killer.

Amazing that someone would attempt to use a conspiracy theory in this case. This is the story of a broken mind with a weapon and plenty of ammunition. The bottom line is that he will never see freedom, never return to the streets. No such killer ever has before. You don't shoot this many people including a liitle girl and elderly victims if you are some hired killer. Someone this sick could never be used in such a way. Mental illness is rampant in America and there are plenty of potential Loughner's out there. The key word in that sentence being "potential". Most never act out such lurid fantasies.

Josh will soon be hitting the whack job midnight radio show ciruit with Rosie O'Donnell as they both advance their theories on why crashing a jet full of fuel could not have brought down the World Trade Center. I agree with Vox - don't dishonor the fallen with this tripe.

antgne-- nothing will ever change what he's done. But he could have made it all worse by professing "innocence" or mental illness, et cetera. His actions have devastated many forever. I'm just glad he did an "honorable" thing by at least taking legal responsibility for it.

Your mental status is questionable Marla?. Do you understand the word honorable.I don't think so.That animal who according to you did so call "honorable"thing should be dead long time ago, by shot slowly from toes to head one by one until the end. I don't give a sh...(sorry) if his sick mentally.He is not he knew what he was doing. Now he is laughing and our taxes go for his good live in prison. This makes me sick how stupid people are .

I'm just wondering if someone shot the kid in your icon (your son?) in the head and spattered his brains all over the wall would you be calling the killer honorable if he pleaded guilty.

Maryla-- what makes me sick is how rude people are. You are capable of civil discourse, no??

As for Loughner, even the most evil among us are capable of an occasional good action.

I don't know why he plead guilty-- I don't care. The end result is an honorable thing to do, regardless. It spares his victims publicly reliving the horror. whether it was his lawyers plan to avoid death, blah, blah, blah-- I don't care.

Swan-- yes, I would. What I detest is guilty people wasting time and money pleading "not guilty" and forcing prosecutors to "prove" it beyond a reasonable doubt. That's crap. He's guilty. He knows he's guilty. He's pleading it. I call that the honorable thing to do. Attack me all you want if it makes you feel better.

ibjonny-- I won't disagree with you-- he is a piece of excrement-- except suicide is for cowards. Prison is no day at the beach. Even dishonorable people can behave honorably now and then. I'm not assigning any honor to the person, simply the actions of his plea.

But, this I've already said.

I was dying to see Gomez and Lurch as character witnesses. ;)

Shandril, you are a psycho biash. Half your posts claim all kinds of religious BS and the other half are like this one... crazy in a whole different way.

What a shame. It would have been one hell of an interesting trial to watch on CNN.

I would have hope that only the victims -or the families-were allowed in that court. There is no reason to sensationalise these crimes on TV. More people would be tempted to have their 5 minutes of fame.

Yeah so we can pay more taxes and they will enjoy happy life in prison.BS

Actually, life in prison is cheaper than execution because of the legal fees that come with the appeal process.

You're one sick puppy.

Of course one had nothing to do with the other. CNN and the News Networks call swing states in elections "Battleground states" all the time but it involves voting contests, not killing people. Seriously, let it go. Trying to smear politicians you don't like with it cheapens it.

I'll pray for you Nevada. You should seek a doctor.

No need...anyone remember what happened to Jeffrey Dahmer?

Navadaj,that BITCH PALEN should be in prison for doing that! If one of us done that,we would be in prison for ENCOURAGING someone to commit MURDER!!

Who said anything about turning anybody loose . . ?

The shooting of Gifford’s was just a cover-up of the intended victim. That intended victim was a Federal Judge named John Roll. He was about to issue two decisions which would have impacted the lives of two dishonest people severely.

There was a man lingering with this Jared weeks and days before the shooting. They met at a Denny's and they were seen at a Motel 6 on two occasions. It can be assumed that this unknown person provided the money to Jared with which he bought the expensive weapon and ammo plus the camera with which he photographed himself wearing bikinis and the motel bills and the food costs at Denny's and paid for the cab fare to and from his house and to the Safeway where he deliberately murdered people.

And never forget that this beast looked into the eyes of a NINE YEAROLD girl and shot her point blank in the chest. She died in the hospital without seeing her Mom or Dad before she left.

There can be no mercy for this beast. And there must be a renewal of the investigation because the target was Judge Roll not Gifford’s, she a just a convenience.

There has been no evidence whatsoever that he shot Giffords because she was a Democrat. I read speculation, not evidence, that he felt that he was slighted by her after he had some sort contact with her. At the time of the shooting liberals everywhere were crawling out from under rocks to loudly blame some printer's marks on maps on Sarah Palin's website. There was and has been no evidence that Lougher or any one else for that matter ever looked at that website. Liberals were intent on viciously smearing Palin and anyone else for political purposes. They didn't care about the victims. Just the politics. The liberals have never apologized for all the hate they spewed out in the days after the shootings. They believe their own lies.

The saddest part is he took the lives of totally innocent victims. He had to be deranged.

I guess Hilter was just deranged too. The saddest part is he also took the lives of totally innocent victims.

Maby he's in love with sara palin and wanted to make her HAPPY

As it turns out, it is red states that are overwhelmingly the Welfare Queen States. Yes, that's right. Red States — the ones governed by folks who think government is too big and spending needs to be cut — are a net drain on the economy, taking in more federal spending than they pay out in federal taxes. They talk a good game, but stick Blue States with the bill.

Take a look at the difference between federal spending on any given state and the federal taxes received from that state. We measure the difference as a dollar amount: Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes. A figure of $1.00 means that particular state received as much as it paid in to the federal government. Anything over a dollar means the state received more than it paid; anything less than $1.00 means the state paid more in taxes than it received in services. The higher the figure, the more a given state is a welfare queen.

Of the twenty worst states, 16 are either Republican dominated or conservative states

Our founding fathers really screwed up when they wrote the Constitution didn't they . . .

Sure did,Patrick, but in their defense, they were new at the game.

No our founding fathers didn't screw up. The idea was to make sure everyone got a fair trial not get away with murder. In their days this would be done & over with instead of glorifying such monsters.

Attorney's & their greed is what ruin our justice system.

Agree 100%

Execution is bloodlust revenge, not justice. Clearly, once the person is no longer a threat by being in custody, execution is purely murder by proxy (hiring the state to murder for you to satisfy your need for revenge). That's you lack of morals (ethics), and it does little or nothing to make society safer.

See, justice systems aren't popular. If we put it to a vote, people like some of you would vote to lynch everyone. That's why law isn't a democratic exercise in courts. Even juries have to be unanimous in guilty verdicts, or the defendent is let go. Why? Because the founders didn't want democracy (mob rule, polling a lynch mob) in courts and law...they wanted justice. It will never satisfy your bloodlust...and it's a shame the foundwers allowed death penalties at the State level. But they also owned slaves (many of them, especially the famous influential ones like Washington, Jefferson, etc.), so they aren't grand examples of ethics (morality).

I know this idea isn't popular, but argumentum ad populum (appeal to opiniuons of the crowd) is an informal logical fallacy. The fact it isn't popular usually signifies it's not only logical, but right. What is right is often not popular, and never easy. It's not popular or easy to let go of hatred and vengeance, and instead go for justice and a better society.

Agreed! Just like the rest of them who threaten doing harm to anyone David.

Great, more lynch mob cheerleaders. This is a good argument against democracy. Glad to see two sick individuals agree...yikes.

In a true democracy there are a set of laws to which all must abide. When someone violates those laws, or in this case demonically incinerates those laws, they should be put down like a dog. Hanging would work as well. The point is that these types of horrific murders will continue until bleeding heart pushovers realize that sometimes to clean up you have to thrown out your own trash.

So, the next time she's off her meds, pop her in the head with a claw hammer.

I agree that people with bi-polar should be forcibly treated because as you know they don't know what they are doing and don't think they need to be medicated when they are not on medication. I don't they think they should be placed in a mental institution if there are medicines that can help them live a normal life in a structured environment where their medication intake is monitored. HOwever, I realize that there are some and often rare that will need to be institutionalize because of the severity of their illness where no amount of or combination of medication can stabilize them enough to live in society again without being a threat to themselves or others.

I have a family member who has depression, PTSD and borderline personality disorder, all of it untreated. The dominant one is BPD. She stalks another member of her own family and does all this crazy stuff and she sees nothing wrong with what she does. We get frustrated because we've had to basically wash our hands of her because she refuses to get help. It's sad it has to come to this, but there isn't anything else we can do. She needs some extended in-patient treatment for all of this, but we can't force her to go. The way the system works is that you have to wait until she commits a crime, tries to harm herself or someone else, but by then, it's too late.

People with Bi-Polar Disorder aren't dillusional...so what your describing sounds morel ike schizophrenia, or something similar. It soundsl ike your sister was misdiagnosed.

Sorry, but when I read big dave's comment, I almost spit out my drink laughing.

It was just the way he put it.

The news says that he was incompetent at the time he did this crime and that he was mentally ill, ok don't get me wrong when I ask this because I would want him dead if it happened to my family , My question is If a person commits a crime but is found incompetent to go on trial , to me this means you didn't know what you were doing your crazy , so how can you really be tried on a crime you didn't know you did because you were crazy at the time. this is just a round about question doesn't even have to do with this man it could be anyone that commits a crime when incompetent

He will spend his life in a mental health hospital the same as Hinckley.This is another waste of a life that could have been if not for the mental health laws and treatment in the good old USofA.People do not chose to be mentally ill.

No, D Gant, locking him away forever under medical care is NOT justice.

It boils down to this: Do we really give a flying f*** why he did it? And the answer is (or at least should be) NO!!!! Does it matter whether his dog told him to do it? NO. NO. NO.

He was on scrips and he CHOSE not to take them. Just like CHOOSING to drink and drive.

The fact that the DA's office is even entertaining the idea of a plea bargain suggest that it's time to vote that lazy SOB out of office.

people do not choose to be mentally ill! the reason why they call it "mental illness " is because their brain is sick ...not functioning well, etc. people's judgement become impaired. some mental illness, individuals can't make rational decisions.....like choosing to take their medicine.....that is why it is call it mental illness. they have a human right to be protected and treated when they are sick. society has a right to be protected too. sending him to prison or to be executed is like sending an individual to prison or to be executed because they developed leukemia, heart disease, or high blood pressure.

if it pleases you loughner is already in prison. he has already been punished for a crime he had no control over.....developing a mental illness.

bipolar left like other mental illnesses if left untreated is a death sentence in terms of never having a productive or good quality life and condemnation from america's most ignorant, uneducated, and uninformed citizens. hitler came to power because of these very same kind of citizens that just talk, curse, and blah blah instead of getting involved in passing laws, supporting policies, and developing institutions that takes care of and protects all of us.

When a person is deemed to be a danger to themselves or to others, they lose their rights and can be forced into treatment against their will. This is for the public's safety and their own safety. This guy committed a crime. They have to see if he will ever become competent to stand trial.

I can see Monique's and other people's point.

The state of mental health care in this country is abyssmal. I genuinely feel sorry for people afflicted with mental illness and their families.

That being said, I find it very difficult to excuse anyone who goes on a shooting spree and randomly kills and maims innocent men, women, and children.

He should have been executed already.

You are exaclty right, Madjayhawk. Of course, they never learn. When James Holmes went on his killing spree, Brian Ross reported on George Stephanopolis's show that "a James Holmes of Aurora ,Colorado has recently joined the Tea Party". Of course, it was a different James Holmes, but they were so quick to shoot from the lip. They would never look to see if he was a member of OWS.

Mad Jayhawk

One of these days maybe all the liberals and the media will apologize for libeling Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, and a host of others after the shootings in Tucson in a tawdry and failed effort to politicize a tragedy for so many people. There was no evidence at the time that connected any conservative or conservative group with the shootings yet that did not stop the wild, out-of-control accusations and innuendo. There is still no evidence. The liberals should be ashamed and should have learned from their rush to judgement in this case but they didn't. They piled on again after the Aurora shootings.

What is wrong with these people? Are they just as crazy as the people doing the shootings? Do they have to try to take political advantage of every disastrous situation in this country?

The liberals owe a lot of people apologies. We know we will never see them because they have no remorse and no class. What the liberals did in both situations is uncalled for and disgusting.

Pot, meet kettle.

Maybe all the conservatives owe Obama an apology for all the birther and Muslim BS libel. There is still no evidence or proof of that either.

But I get what your real point is... "You'll pry my gun from my cold, dead fingers!!" I sense no remorse on your part for the shootings of either Ms. Giffords or the Aura victims... only Mrs. Palin.

I think the "Mad" part of your nickname refers to insanity, not anger.

Uh, MJ? The kid spouted Tea Party propaganda all over his psycho YouTube videos. Why should anyone apologize for calling a spade a spade?

Why do you tell such lies ? you need medical and psychiatric care at once.

Attributing the words or actions of an individual to an entire group of people is absolutely irresponsible. Liberals did this, conservatives did that, tea party members think this or that. Blanket statements about entire groups of people are born of lazy minds. Individuals make comments, or take actions. Individuals may be identified as liberal or conservative by their words and deeds. Taking the words or deeds of an individual and applying them to a broad group of people is at the heart of racism, sexism and a whole host of other, ignorant behavior.

Strong opinions, coupled with strong emotion, are sometimes the motivation for actions that hurt others. Some of the venom put forth in posts here could easily be attributed to unstable minds.

Perhaps painting entire groups with a broad brush is a mental illness born of a lazy mind?

But I get what your real point is... "You'll pry my gun from my cold, dead fingers!!" I sense no remorse on your part for the shootings of either Ms. Giffords or the Aura victims... only Mrs. Palin.

Criminals don't abide laws. As guns and gun permits have increased in America, gun murders both in total and per capita have decreased. Look up the facts at the CDC and DOJ. Gun murder kills less than three times fewer people in the USA than the flu. Guns are not a major threat to life in the USA. In fact, among arthritis patients alone 15,000 die of SAIDs (anti-inflamatory drugs, some over the counter and as weak as asprin - yes, asprin is deadly) in the USA annually. Guns murder kills far less than that (under 10,000). So your medicine cabinet when you're an arthritis patient is 33% more dangerous than gun murder.

You're problem is you don't look up the stats, gain perspective on the actual numbers via comparisons to other causes of death, and therefore realize how small of a threat it actually is. You instead make policy decisions by emotion alone (which is not rational at all). You don't look up murder rates and gun permit issuance rates, and see as permits to carry rose, crime fell. You don't care. It's all about emotions and forcing people to live how you want them too...because you're a tyrant. You're not a logical, rational human being. You can't hold the opinion you do about guns in America and be informed and rational simultaneously.

Stop forming opinions by sensationalist media reports, and start having a rational perspective via studying the stats (which aren't up to opinion and emotion).

I have all the empathy in the world for the victims and the sick man who commited this crime when out of his mind. I'm even against executing him (or anyone), because ethics prevent me from cheerleading for murder by proxy (hiring the state to kill for me out of need for revenge). But I'm never going to be against self defense in society and gun ownership over some risk to our lives that's tiny...so tiny the flu should make you three times more afraid.

If you don't run away in fear when someone coughs and sneezes while looking feverish, then why are you so afraid of someone carrying a gun? The chances the flu from the first person will kill you is three times higher than the guy who carries the gun will shoot you dead. Facts are facts...get used to them.

The whole Act isn't bad. Repeal certain parts...and only the parts that force VIOLENT mental patients to take medication...not everyone. And we're overmedicated. Most violent mentally ill people need therapy to work through traumatic childhood abuse they endured, witnessed, or perpetrated. Most do not need meds (although this shooter did...and he may of needed more). But we can't go around letting psychology (a soft science) turn into another rleigion in it's own Inquisition.If people don't act violently they shouldn't be assumed to be so. period. If you can't handle that tiny risk, then leave the country. Liberty comes with risks.

I'm all for forcing violent people to be separated from society...but not non-violent people who are ill. And I'm not for medicating people who need therapy and not medication. Stop falling for the drug companies' BS...we're already overmedicated and dying in droves because of their legal drugs. If you made it legal for them to put people on meds who haven't acted out violently yet, then they'll have anyone who argues with their wife on meds (and the wife too).

You're just going to have to accept a certain level of risk (to remain free) in society. The Batman movie theater shooter had no violent record. There was no preventing that. And to ban guns, limit normal people from buying them and any size clip they wish, as much ammo as they wish, and being able to carry guns, let alone medicating non-violent people preventatively, is overkill. The flu kills more than 3 times as many people in this country annually as gun murder (ignore the sensationalist media and go to the CDC and DOJ and look up the facts). There is no risk vs reward ration there to ban or limit any of those things, or to medicate nonviolent people.

MRZ- What the hell kind of meds are YOU on? Or off? They didn't have to hunt this bunghole down.

big dave,

HUH? Are we talking about the same thing? Also, your "forum rage" is not very becoming.

Don't worry, Greg, he'l get it. Probably a lot faster this way.

Attention,They are famous now, everybody talking ,long long trial , stupid lawyers , ( such a good person but mentally sick),biography , movie and a very good time with all God believers in prison. Why should they worry now?We are paying

Hammerhead...Automatic weapons are illegal to own or sell without a special license,Gun control is not the answer ...wacko control is what's needed.

I agree, kpatte... the man was diagnosed with mental illness and the only thing making him competent are the medications which were not given to him until after this tragedy. Yes, the events were horrific... but our society's lack of focus on mental health issues were an indirect cause of these events.

His needs, his needs, his needs.......

Hey - the dead people need to come back to life. Get over "his needs".

If his need for treatment had been addressed, those people would not BE dead.

Touchee