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Jeffrey Phelps / AP
A gunman opened fire Sunday morning at a Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee, killing six people and wounding at least three others, including a police officer, before being shot to death, authorities said.
Updated at 10:36 p.m. ET: A gunman opened fire Sunday morning at a Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee, killing six people and wounding at least three others, including a police officer, before being shot to death, authorities said.
A mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisc., leaves seven dead, including the suspected gunman, and three wounded, including an ambushed police officer. NBC's John Yang reports.
The identity of the shooter was not released and his motive was unknown.
"We're treating this as a domestic terrorist-type incident," Oak Creek Police Chief John Edwards said at a late afternoon press conference. He did not elaborate.
It was not immediately clear why local police were classifying the shooting as domestic terrorism.
Federal law enforcement officials told NBC News the suspected gunman had no obvious connection to domestic terror or white supremacist groups and apparently was not on any list of suspected terrorists. The suspect was in his early 40s, and while he had an arrest record, it was for minor offenses, one federal official said.
Greenfield Police Chief Bradley Wentlandt, acting as public information officer at the scene, said the shooting was reported at 10:25 a.m. at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in Oak Creek, south of Milwaukee along Lake Michigan. The shooting took place shortly before Sunday services were to begin.
A police officer responding to multiple 911 calls came upon a gunman outside the temple and was shot multiple times, Wentlandt said.
The gunman shot at another officer, who returned fire, striking and killing the suspect, Edwards said. The wounded officer was taken to a hospital where he underwent surgery and was expected to survive, officials told NBC News.
Wentlandt said four bodies were found inside the temple and three, including the suspected gunman, were outside. He did not identify or describe the victims.
Tactical police officers swept through the temple several times and found no signs of additional suspects despite earlier reports of a possible second gunman.
Police officials says that they are treating the shooting by a gunman that left seven people dead, including the gunman, as a "domestic terrorist" incident.
Reports of multiple shooters “were likely reports of the same shooter from different perspectives,” Wentlandt said.
A law enforcement official told NBC News the gunman was dressed in a white T-shirt and black tactical-style pants, which had several pockets for holding ammunition magazines. He was armed with a single handgun, the official said. His name was not released but police say they have a tentative ID and were searching his home.
FBI and police converged on a duplex in Cudahy, south of Milwaukee and about six miles from Oak Creek late Sunday. Witnesses told NBC station WTMJ that neighbors and residents were told to stay away as authorities were investigating the home. An ambulance, armored vehicle and bomb squad were on the scene.
A police official later confirmed that law enforcement officials were executing a search warrant at the house.
Officials told NBC News the suspect, who served in the U.S. Army, had many tattoos. The suspect had some kind of radical or white supremacist views but, as far as officials said they had heard, he was not in any kind of radical organization. His previous run-ins with law enforcement involved traffic offenses, they said.
Tight-knight Sikh community shocked by shooting
A Wisconsin police official says that at least seven people are dead, including the gunman, in a shooting at a Sikh temple outside Milwaukee. Watch the entire news conference.
Edwards earlier praised the "heroic actions" of the responding officers. "They stopped this from being worse than it could have been."
The temple's president, Satwant Kaleka, was among those shot, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reported.
Sukhwindar Nagr, of Racine, said he called his brother-in-law's phone and a priest at the temple answered, The Associated Press reported. Nagr said the priest told him that his brother-in-law had been shot, along with three priests. Nagr said the priest also said women and children hid in closets at the temple.
A temple committee member, Ven Boba Ri, told the Journal-Sentinel that people inside the temple described the shooter as a white male in his 30s.
"We have no idea," he said of the motive. "It's pretty much a hate crime. It's not an insider."
Ri told the Journal-Sentinel the gunman walked up to a priest who was standing outside the temple and shot him. Then he went inside and started shooting.
People inside the temple used cell phones to call people outside, saying please send help, Ri said.
Three male victims, including the wounded police officer, were being treated at Froedtert Hospital in Milwaukee for gunshot wounds. All were in critical condition, hospital officials said. One suffered injuries to the abdomen and chest, one suffered injuries to the extremities and face, and one suffered injuries to the neck, Dr. Gary Seabrook, Froedtert's director of surgical services, said in a prepared statement.
Oak Creek police, the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department and other law enforcement agencies responded, the Journal-Sentinel reported. The FBI also assisted.
Watch US News crime videos on NBCNews.com
Authorities closed roads and set up a staging area near the temple, WTMJ reported.
Wisconsin state Rep. Josh Zepnick, who came to the scene, said he has been inside the temple many times. He described the shooting as senseless.
"On a beautiful Sunday morning, the absolute last thing you would expect is a place of peace and love and spiritual worship would be torn to shreds by gun violence," Zepnick told WTMJ.
"Our hearts go out to the victims and their families, as we all struggle to comprehend the evil that begets this terrible violence," Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker said in a statement.
"At the same time, we are filled with gratitude for our first responders, who show bravery and selflessness as they put aside their own safety to protect our neighbors and friends."
Police from Brookfield, Wisc., west of Milwaukee, were sent to a Sikh temple there as a precaution after news of the Oak Creek shootings spread.
President Barack Obama was notified of the shooting shortly before 1 p.m. by his Homeland Security adviser, John Brennan. In a statement, he said he and first lady Michelle Obama were "deeply saddened" by the shooting and that his administration would provide whatever support is necessary.
"As we mourn this loss which took place at a house of worship, we are reminded how much our country has been enriched by Sikhs, who are a part of our broader American family," Obama said.
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, in a prepared statement, said he and his wife, Ann, "extend our thoughts and prayers to the victims of today's shooting in Wisconsin. This was a senseless act of violence and a tragedy that should never befall any house of worship. ... We join Americans everywhere in mourning those who lost their lives and in prayer for healing in the difficult days ahead."
The New York Police Department said it was increasing coverage in and around Sikh temples in New York City as a precaution. "There is no known threat against Sikh temples in New York City, however, the coverage is being put in place out of an abundance of caution," the department said.
Sikh rights groups have reported a rise in bias attacks since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The Washington-based Sikh Coalition has reported more than 700 incidents in the U.S. since 9/11, which advocates blame on anti-Islamic sentiment. Sikhs don't practice the same religion as Muslims, but their long beards and turbans often cause them to be mistaken for Muslims, advocates say.
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Sikhism is a monotheistic faith that was founded in South Asia more than 500 years ago. It has roughly 27 million followers worldwide. Observant Sikhs do not cut their hair; male followers often cover their heads with turbans -- which are considered sacred -- and refrain from shaving their beards. They are neither Muslim nor Hindu.
There are roughly 500,000 Sikhs in the U.S., according to estimates. The majority worldwide live in India.
The Sikh Temple of Wisconsin was founded in October 1997 with 20 to 25 families, according to its website. It currently has 350 to 400 people in its congregation and has grown rapidly, the group says. The congregation started in rental facilities in Milwaukee and formerly established itself in a building in 1999. It later bought 13 acres in Oak Creek and broke ground on the current temple in 2006.
This article includes reporting by NBC station WTMJ of Milwaukee, NBC's Pete Williams and The Associated Press.
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Leave a Comment:
Terrorist.
Hillbilly homegrown type...
They need to add white males to the racial profiling list under most likely to go on murder sprees and commit murder-suicides
Look I'm dressed like a mass murderer! They look like everyone else.
TO POLARWARZASS---just dont add them to the most likely to be on welfare list
Too Late! The Department of Homeland Security has officially said the biggest threat to US Security is the WHITE, MALE, COMBAT VETERAN. Go to war for your country and what happens? The Supreme Court says that it is OK to protest at your funeral, and they don't want you back at "home". SWEET !!
Cheesehead Militia did this. The yellow cheese chunks hats should be a profile for incarceration.
You're an @!$%#.
Douche was probably aiming for Muslims and doesn't even know the difference between Sikh and Muslim. The idiot thought, they wear a head wrap they are all the same.
Another angry white guy doing a hate crime. Maybe the bigots are targeting the wrong groups.
We must follow Obama's lead in this;
A Man Made Disaster.
puhlease!
Michele o' Michele Bachmann... where can you be?
@TJ,
Actually there are hugely more white men on welfare than any other race. In fact the modal (average) person is a white female in her early 30's and 2.4 kids who has just been divorced by her white husband.
Yours is a racist comment --- the last refuge of the really, really stupid.
Is this the best you can come up with? The individual who did this is a low-life, scumbag, nut job supremacist. A s#!%head more than a cheesehead!
Chris,
You are correct by shear number.
However, as a percentage of a person's subgroup you are dead wrong. And that's an important point.
I assume a Michelle Bachman infused rage?!
yeah, and black men only eat the faces white men on florida overpasses...look people, if you are going to say statics, then quote your sources or shut the hell up.
Bigot: intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views...seems more and more both sides are the same..Gawd....
WCCO news MPLS just said at least 20 people wounded. Looks worse. Hope not.
Guns don't kill people. Crazy people with guns kill people. Good thing we have a lot of both in the US. U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
puhlease!
what the hell duse he have to do with this ?
The reason that's not an important point is because there is only one race and that is the Human Race, Period!1lov
Oh, and considering 72.8% of the population is white (2010 census) then yes, More whites are going to be on welfare and other things...but last time i check there is really only one race on the planet...I think they are called "HUMAN"...get over yourselves.
Hillbilly? This was in Wisconsin! Dumb-ass, white-supremacist Yankee, more likely.
@ Paul, there is a reason it's ex-military white males. Look into MKUltra. Yes, we've allowed ourselves to get really screwed by the selfish tyrants behind the world powers. Here's a thought, stop killing each other for love or money.........
GAdude,
You sure got that right!
Thank you Michelle Bachman for stirring up more hatred in this country with your evil bigoted rhetoric.Stirring up the loner,loser white man who has nothing going for himself so he is hating the world.Between you bitch and Sarah palin you guys have stirred up more evil and hatred then anyone since McCarthy.Your times will come
But but but, all the people in the north are anti racist...I mean NYC is the most accepting loving city in the world, that is unless you want to build a Muslim Rec. center anywhere within ten miles of Ground Zero. (blank stare)
This is just sad. Why would someone load up and enter a church to kill people? But the saddest thing is that we can't be surprised. We have politicians whipping up fear over "non-Christians," disregarding the 1st amendment to support people of all religions, but chest-thumping over the sanctity of the 2nd amendment. There's a lot of hate in this country, much of which is always reflected on these boards.
Another mass shooting... when will be grow a pair and start legislation smart gun laws?
@Paul,
The Dept of Homeland Security has never said that. You are telling a lie! What they did say that they were studying recent vets as a group because a) they have weapons training b) many have issues with PTSD/TBI and associated personality disorders that could lead to attacks, c) the military tends to be slow to discharge those to be found with various asocial personality disorders, hoping that they will "grow out" of it. and d) the sorts of attacks DHS is looking for are closely associated with suicidal behavior. The suicide rate among both active duty and vets is absolutely through the roof. Amonth recently-discharged vets not receiving VA care, it is the highest suicide rate for a demographic ever seen.
So, the DHS woiuld be incredibly remiss if they didn't try to understand a significant threat group, wouldn't they?
We have smart gun laws, the problem is criminals don't follow laws.
Ahh, the "Temple of Doom" is actually in Wisconsin...........I thought is was on the other side of the planet like the movie showed.
Some of today's white middle aged males who lack education, drive and ambition only know how to show their prowess when they are armed to the teeth. They have legal access to their own personal arsenals and they are licensed to kill.
They are using their own lack of intelligence and sanity to validate their reasons for intimidating the rest of society. Not all men are like this. But the ones who are seem to be growing in number.
Now...ask yourselves...Is this the example we want the next generation to emulate? Gun toting bullies who are addicted to their own venomous hatred and spew it on the rest of the people of this country?
If you are an adult...YOU and no one else is responsible for the country you leave our kids. You and no one else is responsible for the behavior you exhibit and our kids will copy. Are you ready for a generation of violence unparalled in US history? Or, are you willing to call a halt to the unacceptable vigilante behaviors spewing from the bowels of the earth?
Cniht @ 1.7
I'll bet your right
The condition of a society can be indicated by the action of an individual.
Yeah, criminals don't follow laws, so we shouldn't have them right? Then there would be no criminals and no crime! Wow! You're a genius!
Thanks to our nut case right wing governor and the other hypocrite right wing so called Christian haters I'm not surprised. It will be interesting to find out more, but I already blame Wacko Walker and the right wing republican nuts that have divided this state.
yay. another shooting, and everybody is going to say how horrible it is, and how it is just a lone lunatic acting on his own, just like the shooting last month, and the month after that, and the month before that.
and if anyone dares point out the right wing gun nut elephant in the room, then you are politicizing a tragedy and shame on you.
WOW, at first I thought I read several thousand...............but no. Too bad!
RabbitTrick hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter how many gun laws there are. Criminals don't let them get in the way. Hello Chicago. If you sit down and look into all of the statistics these gun laws are useless.
RabbitTrick
We have smart gun laws, the problem is criminals don't follow laws.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is the ease of availability of high powered assault weapons that are available to those who are not criminals yet but want to make their delusional statement.
How many of these mass murders have we seen being done by people who have minimal to know criminal history.
Why does anyone need an assault rifle ?
Dong,
You can get anything you want in Mexico. If there is a will, there is a way. Our laws are fine. I don't buy the pacifist BS about regulating my rights.
Scopata--you can't really be saying that it's too bad that several thousand people weren't wounded, can you?
Gun laws are not the answer because criminals do not care about the laws, what are you going to propose next, we throw out silverware since so many people are fat? As to the racist remarks, we have seen all races do hate crimes, no race has the edge on this one. Sadly today people are going to scream and yell and yet nothing will be done. What we need is to not post the perps face, his trial, and turn them into a non person, this way they get non of the moment of fame they are seeking!
Only when dangerous crazy people are locked up will we all be safe. We have confused free speech and the right to bear arms with the rantings of crazy people. Until crazy people or who we think are crazy people by their express desire to kill, injure or meim another human being we will not solve the violence problem.
Early intervention and evaluation is a solution and if that doesn't work - lock them up. I'd rather spend my tax dollars locking up crazy people than this situation or worse yet a prison population of about 50% who are mentally ill.
Chris, Where do you get your information from? #1.11
Chris, you are a freakin retard.
In reference to your welfare statement:
White 38.8%
Black 39.8
Hispanic 15.7
Asian 2.4
other 3.3
"To break down these numbers, we look at how many Whites are in the population as a WHOLE. If Blacks make up less 14% of the population and are almost 40% of all recipients, then they represent about 2.5 times their actual population. Since Whites are over 50% of the total US pop., they represent less than their overall piece of the pie, population-wise. Hispanics are at least 15% of the general population, so they take only about as much as what their population represents"
In reference to your "TSA lets Sikhs carry their weapons on planes""
TSA allows Sikhs to carry there weapon in their checked baggage in the belly of the plane just as they do a lot of other people.
Typical liberal spouting B.S.
Rabbit Trick,
I don't by the B S about my neighbor saying he needs to protect his property with an AK 47 either. Or the guys with the 100 round clip and automatic weapon in Colorado. Our founding father's never meant this NRA BS.
Sickening, and one more opportunity for the Gun Fun crowd to start whining about its rights. And I wouldn't even take the bet that the idiot who did this assumed he was firing at Muslims.
As fast as I'd criticize a donut swisher, that's one tough focused cop who prevented much more damage - and deserves acclaim for that.
clwyd - I would like to here your explanation as to the difference between an semi-auto AK-47 type rifle with a 20 round clip and a hunting rifle with a 20 round clip??? Other than the fact that an AK-47 doesn't shoot as high power of a round.
Please, do tell.
Where are all of the sniveling "gun enthusiasts" who usually say things at times like this such as, "If the Sikhs were all able to pack heat in their own church they would have been able to protect themselves from the white racist "gun enthusiast"?
Well, that's not exactly what they say at times like this but if they possessed even a scrap of humanity and integrity they would be demanding to know how we can regulate gun ownership as a first step to drawing down the horrendous 30,000+ deaths the US suffers each year that are a consequence of gun violence.
cheetah-822547 isn't it amazing what happens when you have another armed human being in the vicinity of a potential mass shooting?
Melissa-1175724-1762238,
Sailcat-2064101,
The NRA has contingency plans for when these things happen. They use their media connections and internet campaigns as a "quick response" in an attempt to keep public opinion swayed. But the more successful they are, the more guns are out there, and the higher the probability of something like this happening. So, their "quick response" may be getting more and more expensive to carry out these days.
clwyd,
I live out in the country and it would take the police 15-20 minutes to reach my land. Besides, black bears and rabid fanged animals do not really care about weapons as they are born with their own. It took 7 rounds from and M1A for me to bring down a black bear and my first shot was through the chest. You live your life, I will live mine.
Rabbit, good point...however you really need to break it down for these people.
I would have maybe linked to a picture of an M1A to show how super scary it looks and then proceeded to let him know that it typically uses the same ammunition as an AK-47...which is also super scary.
If you have a disagreement with someone, why on earth can you not talk about it? You might actually learn something by having a civil discussion. Why do you have to shoot a gun to get someone's attention? I suppose that the people who do these things are incapable of intelligent or even basic rational thought; incapable of communicating with another human being through normal means. But "by golly, I can get a gun to do my thinking for me." Cowards, all.
Rabbit Trick...No sane American asks anyone who lives in rural remote areas of the country to be defenseless. The minute that gun goes viral in public, then you have a problem.
Brian T.
As you can tell I'm anti gun and even had a relative stay in a motel when she unpacked a gun when she came to visit from California. We don't even lock our doors in our town. I know nothing about guns so when my neighbor said he had an AK 47 and showed me the clip I presumed it was the same as the clip on TV which held 100 rounds. all guns should be outlawed and to he// with the 2nd Amendment.
ewent:
I don't often agree with you...but your post on this occasion is outstanding! I hope the world hears you! Can't give you more than one vote up.
What the HELL, why all these mass shootings are happening.? Did We manufacture the huge lot of arms, and exported TERRORISM to whole of the world for this day that these are being used at home.???
clwyd-2621393 How can you be so blatantly ignorant about guns and call for them to be outlawed?
How astonishingly retarded. And you people call conservatives ignorant...
Dong Work 4 Yuda,
I will support your view on assault rifles when you support the return of prohabition. I did a quick google search and from what I could find, the number of people killed by drunk drivers is close to the number of people kill by guns. If we start using "need" as a basis for law, then lets ban booze. Lets also ban car with 300+ horsepower. The fastest speed limit that I know of in America is 85. You don't "need" 300+ horse power to do 85mph.
What we do not "need" is to infringe on the rights of law abiding Americans.
If this lunatic fired at Muslims, would that be ok? Am I misreading some of the comments here?
Sarcasticus...Thank you. The reality is that there are men who live in very rural regions like Montana, Wyoming, Idaho and other states where the population is relatively small compared to NY, NJ, CT, MA and CA. Their lives are lived very differently and very close to nature which sometimes can be amazingly cruel to humans. It's all a matter of looking at who really needs to be armed and who doesn't.
If you need protection from animals on your ranch or farm no American is going to be stupid enough to deny you that right. But, if you pack heat in public just to show ass...that's a totally unnecessary reason to be armed. That implies that everyone but the armed man is a potential threat. That's the reason arming everyone in the country is so wrong. All of us are not a threat. Those who believe that are too neurotic to be armed. And on the rare occasions someone is a threat, no one, least of all an armed man or woman, is going to know that unless they possess ESP.
You people are all so blind as to whats going on in your own country. OMG ANOTHER MASS SHOOTING BY A WHITE GUY AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you know that Chicago, a city with some of the most strict gun control laws in this country, as of June 15th had 228 murders in 2012. Thats worse than freakin Kabul, Afghanistan! Do you REALLY think it's a coincidence that one of the most liberal cities in the country, where your lord and savior Obama is from AND who's Chief of Staff is now the mayor, has some of the most horrendous crimes in this country?
Brian Turn,
As you can tell I'm completely anti gun. I even had my cousin stay in a motel when she unloaded a gun in my house while visiting. I know only that my neighbor told me that his AK-47 could fire up to 100 rounds and he needed it to protect his family. We don't even lock out doors here and he had just moved in from California. The 2 nd amendment should be abolished.
All of you libtards ALWAYS take the opportunity to slam the NRA and legal gun owners before you know any facts. You are consistent in your ignorant deliberations. A Muslim Church was attacked by who? Uh, we do not know yet do we? Do we know if there was a motive? Uh, we do not know yet. Was the attack religion motivated? Uh, we don't know yet. (I hope not, because Muslims love Martyrs) Are you people ignorant libtards? Uh, that we do know.
Lazarus
Brian Turnipseed,
You're really working hard these days, eh Brian?
T.J.McBearsofBrooklyn, A close family member works for our state DCS department. The overwhelming number of her clients are white. Single white women with their children. So you actually need the facts instead of your bigotry to speak with intelligence.
WOW, and to think, just one shot in the air would have likely scared it off. Big man, you are.
Chris: Actually there are hugely more white men on welfare than any other race. In fact the modal (average) person is a white female in her early 30's and 2.4 kids who has just been divorced by her white husband.
Actually Chris there are more Hispanics on Welfare than any other race. And oh yea 70% of them are here illegally. Check it out.
"All of you libtards ALWAYS take the opportunity to slam the NRA and legal gun owners before you know any facts."
Fact: In the news today Jared Loughner is pleading guilty for his mass murder, James Eagan Holmes is being held for trial for his mass murder, and today a mass murder occurred in a church in Wisconsin. Another fact is that well over 30,000 deaths occur in the US each year as a consequence of gun violence.
Those are some damned ugly facts, Larry.
Ahh, yes. I see all the sexist morons and hypocritical bigots have reared their ugly heads. Guess all those blacks and women filling up our prisons were all wrongfully accused, huh? Yup, uh-huh. As for the welfare statistics, that's way off. Just visit Camden, NJ once and see what a welfare city looks like. Yup...minorities. But you can always blame the white man for your shortcomings and failures. How convenient.
To add to your facts, Sailcat, a quick google of "child shoots self" paints an even more grim picture of what's going on this year as a direct result of the sheer number of guns found in the US.
pj,
Go back to watching TV. Fiction has no place when it comes to life and death out here in the sticks. Here, you are either quick or you are dead. Tell that to the rattle snake that got into my horse corral. The horses were injuring themselves trying to bust down the fencing. I am a good shot but luckily had a few spare rounds in the magazine because the first few were misses. It was good eats by the way.
This is nothing surprised.
The last time I drove through Utah, there are 3 guys at the gas stations who hand out pamphlets and told me to beware of "Muslim". They also carried guns and that freaked me out.
Larry,
Are you serious? Are you talking about today's event? These were not Muslims - they were Sikhs! These people are from India - not the Middle East.
Be careful who you call "ignorant". Too often, when pointing a finger at others, we're pointing fingers back at ourselves.
Since when did the gunman become the victim?
Sikhs are not Muslims. The shooter, driven by Anti-Arab Angst, might've made the same mistake.
Oh but Royalstar don't you know?! He can't be a terrorist because whenever it's a looney inside the U.S. it's always they're sick in the head. No way can you call an American a terrorist. Umph!
(for the slow ones, this is sarcasm)
A Black President. People, in country, wearing Turbans and beards, a large pile of native idiots with access to weapons, and a pack of "tea party" republicans fanning their looney imaginings. Death! Death, and more death. I'm sure there's about as many grinning approval as feeling shame and disbelief. After all, this is America in the time of the "Fool".
That's it! Armed guards everywhere! Piles of guns for everyone. Shoot em up! Woot woot!
Why? Wisconsin can handle their own problems with criminals. No need for any federal attention. Ooooh, that's right, so they can label him a terrorist and take all of his constitutional rights away. That's the only way they'll get a conviction, right? LOL, quick, to the Obamaphone!
Ok I will start this out by admitting I don't have a clue as to what the Sikh religion is and I tried to look it up. Now to the important part it takes a special kind of looser to shot and/or kill a priest of any kind (or Rabi) but to go into any house of worship is hate and should be dealt with severely. I personally don't understand all of the mass murders but a person should be save in a house of worship no matter what kind it is even if you do not believe in that religion. God bless the innocent victims and their families. I am not in favor of gun control but do not understand the need for assault weapons unless you are in war.
This killing makes no sense, and the ridiculous jumping to conclusions is sheer stupidity.
Bravo to all the empty-headed quick to judge with zero information dimwits.
I have piles of guns....I have no desire to shoot anyone. I do believe we need gun legislation. Bottom line, the world is not the same place is was when the bill of rights was written. Do not take away our guns, lets be reasonable about what we own.
Great . . dumass probably thought they were Muslims.Another point scored for Americas dysfunctional education system. Remember all . . America is all about no gays,no abortions, no education and no evolution.And remember kids . . books are like krytonite,don't ever be exposed to one.As long as America focus's on it's conservative values of Jesus and the literal translation of the bible and ignores the rest of the worlds religions and values such as treat others as you would like to be treated we'll continue to decline.Papers please . . will become our mantra soon I think.We will soon make the Gestapo look like armatures. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING . . . . . . . . .
Actually, "teaparty"and Mac, the Tea Party has been the most peaceful, law-abiding, political movement in our nation's history.
Do some research and look at the motives of the Ohio bridge perpetrators, the Va Tech, Aurora and Tuscon shooters - it is far more likely this murderer is either apolitical or a person of the radical left.
But don't let facts get in the way of your politcal bigotry!!
jungle jim-1365067,
If you have kids, please keep your "pile of guns" in a gun safe. Kids don't deserve to be surrounded by life-threatening objects. Google "child shoots self" if you think it won't happen to you.
vitvva and GADUDE...both of you shut the @!$%# up...it doesn't matter where the shooter is from...what matters is he obviously had some mental issues and for whatever reason felt the only way to do something he believed mattered was to murder.
Both of you get off your bigoted rants...THIS is what's causing all this @!$%# to happen. Bigotry mixed with mental illness is not a good thing.
Anyone out there that has some kind of issue with another person pr persons of a different race or religion...get some help. Don't you realize that to have this much turmoil and hate in your way of thinking is a sign of mental illness...get help before you hurt someone.
stop the hate.
http://washingtonindependent.com/73036/n-word-sign-dogs-would-be-tea-party-leader
Yes, this looks just like a thoughtful, reasonable teabagger. He is Dale Robertson, one of the founders of the Tea Party and operator of TeaParty.org. This country can do with fewer political movements like this one.
gone4now,
I know, it's weird to have a President that actually cares about ALL citizens. He is being proactive to help understand and rectify the situation unlike your boy Dubyah (GWB) who waited 5 days and let people die and rot to death (which you could watch on the news on a daily basis) in the sewage and heat while he, after 4 days, had dinner with the head of FIMA as a damge control tactic to talk about how to save face, while it was still f'n happening, for the embarrassment of Katrina. Obama, proactive, what a dick.
Of course cars can be used in crimes. Before I was allowed to drive:
So I assume you support all these same restrictions on guns as well? A required gun safety course, a test, insurance in case of misuse, a license to carry a gun, proof that I am fit to use a gun and a tag on the gun?
Keep in mind that all of this is acceptable within the context of the 2nd Amendment: A well-regulated militia, being necessary.
Currently, the gun laws in our country read the 2nd Amendment as: A
well-regulatedmilitia, being necessary.And, RobertKarma - remember that old timer who shot a security guard in a DC museum? He was a radical, left-wing enviro-nazi.
But of course, the old media never reports these facts. They're too busy Googling the person to see if someone with the same name belongs to the Tea Party.
But the insinuation is allllll they need!!
It doesn't matter which race, creed or gender of the murderer... murder is the culmination of hatred.
So you are telling us that you think there's some doubt that this guy used a gun to murder people?
Or do you think there's doubt that there's almost 10,000 Americans shot to death every year?
Or it just inconvenient facts that must be ignored?
Think it through. 30 people die because of guns every day. Almost four times as many as the 7 killed today by this maniac. About 2.5 times that killed in the Aurora, Colorado shootings. 30. Every day.
Very well said, Byron! Two thumbs, way up!
Hi Ewent, In regard to " the hatred spewing up from the bowels", it's a very good point. But, this evilness, this hatred, knows no color and it's not just whites it's all over. Some young people are bored and lack prospects and start pointing the finger of blame. This is a sickning horrible tragedy, Ewent, I feel so ashamed because I sit and bitch about politics like everyone else here on the Vine. We don't realize how lucky and blessed we really are because we are not going through what's happening in the homes of those victims tonite.
Its rare there was someone finally around with a permit to carry, glad tho..
I hate, hate.
Well, not wanting to pick sides, please forgive me for being a bit vague.
Some people have made some excellent posts here, but the bottom line is that there is no simple answer. Hell, I doubt there is a complex answer.
Just spit balling here off the top of my head.. Hmmm.. Well, if we take the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, the criminals win because it will just make it that much easier to break into a home and, (if you are lucky), steal your stuff... (and if you are unlucky, well... you get the idea).
If we don't take the guns out of law abiding citizens, we make it easier for criminals to ACQUIRE guns.
So, really there is no answer that I can see, (that's why I am not bitching, pissing, moaning and pointing fingers). Oh yea, and I am quite aware that everyone in D.C. has a price... and no, I am not making political comments. I doubt the person in the article on which I comment could even spell "politics".
Maybe, (like I said, just kinda spit balling here), if you own a registered weapon, (firearm of some kind), once every....say 6 months, you have to go have it certified at the local cop shop. Not go through all the paperwork again, just show up, they check the serial #, check your ID, and off ya go. If you cannot produce the weapon you have registered? Maybe an explanation of where it went?
Yea, I know, not a solution, just thinking out loud.
I love it! The story mentions the shooters ethnicity, the weapon used and the victim’s ethnicity and you yahoo’s turn this discussion into a racist, anti-gun political cesspool!
This deranged individual like everyone who commits these types of crimes are the equivalent of a rabid animal! There brain is squirming like a toad! Most of the comments I have read here seems to suggest your overall view of your surroundings! Racism, Guns and Politics Oh my! The ignorance is represented in a visual thought: A barefooted centipede on a hot rock!
Signed,
White guy that has a lot of guns and is a politician!
Big J-2023575
You make those kind of statements and expect us to take you seriously. You are so filled with hate it is seeping out all over your post. Talk about stirring up hate you have it down to a science like so many people do now days.
My thoughts and prayers are with those in Wi. I'm from Colorado and I know the pain this type of thing causes. Please everyone stop the hate and try to think of those in need.....
Sad, another mass shooting. We need to get to the bottom of what these mass shooters were into before they crossed that line. I'm sure there is a pattern.
Byron, short list compared to what you need to do to get a pistol permit in NY. I don't want more gun control, I want some gun control in the states that do not have it.
Wouldn't you say this is perfectly reasonable? nyfirearms.com/blog/nys-gun-laws/
Maybe even a little too cautious (not in my book). Still didn't stop this from happening in my town a couple years ago:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_shootings
We know gun control isn't the complete answer, but it's a good place to start.
If you are just here to brag about your guns and no nothing about the epidemic of gun violence that is sweeping our country, then you are part of the problem and not the solution. The Second Amendment does not exist merely to protect the pathetic fantasies of immature wannabe Rambos.
Sailcat, one derogatory term allegedly used by one Tea Party member does not malign a political group of millions of Americans.
Nice try.
Lets see here, CO, Wisc, Ill, NY. Tough gun laws! Where do the killings reside? CO, Wisc, ILL, NY.(big time)
Ya cant fix stupid. Oh and by the way, Classes in gun control or safety do NOT control killers (your sons and daughters that would never do that) Somebody's kid did.
Brian Turnipseed: In your posting #1.48 above, you make a reference to the AK-47 as a semi-automatic rifle. If I remember, it is a fully automatic rifle. It is the SKS that is semi automatic. Both shoot the NATO standard 7.62mm ammunition. I don't know which ammunition the M1A uses.
It was a racist term used by one of the founders of the Tea Party and a person who still operates the TP's web site. The man displayed the sign at a TP rally. It is a declaration of his movement's political agenda and our country could use a lot fewer political movements like this one.
Feed up (what?!?):
It's kinda like the global warming argument - no we can't fix the problem, but we can probably improve our situation. Can you imagine what CO, Wisc, Ill., and NY would be like if we had Arizona's gun laws? You're right, you can't fix stupid. Those intent on causing harm WILL cause harm however they can. Classes in gun safety are for responsible owners, how many mass shooters do you think take safety classes (LOL)? Gun control is necessary. End of story.
Also, Arthur, here is a slide show of racist and/or offensive signs carried at Tea Party rallies. The only things missing at these rallies are white robes, pointy hats, and burning crosses:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/10-most-offensive-tea-par_n_187554.html
Bryan - When the sh!t goes down you'll be glad I have my guns to protect our way of life!
There are some who want to outright ban guns. There are some who don't want any gun control laws at all. Both are out of their minds. In between is what will remain, thanks to sense prevailing.
Lets look at this logically, firearms are only a tool with which to accomplish a task, like a hammer, screwdriver or a wrench. A life can be taken with any of these tools. Obviously the perpretrator
planned this attack. If a person wants to kill people, he or she does not need a firearm, it is the
intent. The tool is only the means with which to execute the intent. People kill other people with
all types of objects; cars, hand tools(as described above),firearms or simple household chemicals, like
laundry detergent and gasoline. So what do we do? outlaw any object that could be used to commit
capital murder?
So somebody cooks the wrong egg for breakfast for this guy and sets him off. Great, at least two things about this pisses me off. First, these guys are going give loners a bad name, I'm a loner and I have guns, and the last thing I would ever do take out my bummer out on anyone else, correction, I would never hurt anybody over anything that happened to me, even if somebody did cook me the wrong egg for breakfast. Second, now the NRA is going to have to start arming the Sikh community, I guess that's okay because they are not Muslim anyway, and they even like America.
In reality, God bless that officer that responded to this latest American insanity, I hope he makes it, and to the Sikhs that died, may they rest in peace, and the wounded, hopefully they will all fully recover. And lastly, no matter what happens, for the truly wacko nutjobs that own guns, stupidity will never be a virtue!!
Sailcat, your efforts to besmirch 8+ million people from some blog few people have heard of about some random who may or may not be a part of that organization won't work.
Just as I don't believe all Occupy Wall Streeters are rapists, despite several alleged rapes in Zucotti Park, you shouldn't be so bigoted to a patently law-abiding and peaceful political movement as the Tea Party.
I'm not a member of the Tea Party. But when 2,000,000 can march in protest on DC peacefully, and pick up their own trash afterward, that is simply awe-inspiring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwoCJjH4gwQ
RabbitTrick:
Tell me the truth. 5 rounds is required from M1A to put down a brown bear? The first round squarely into the chest? Come on! I've heard better fish story.
No one mentioned banning silverware. What, are people spoon feeding people to death? That is one heck of a straw man there. Apples and oranges.
2 million teabags marched on DC????
ummyaright
Nobody knows who this freak is right now, but what are the chances he voted for Hussein Obama? Y'all best put on your deflectors cuz get ready here it comes...
Guns don't kill people. Crazy people with guns kill people. Good thing we have a lot of both! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
So many errors in reporting ....
Sikhism is a monotheistic faith - WRONG! They believe in all Hindu Gods.
that was founded in South Asia - Half Truth. Specifically the place is India.
They are neither Muslim nor Hindu. - WRONG AGAIN. They are practically Hindu although the intention was to create a separate religion. They openly and freely marry into non-sikh hindus and vice versa and both of them believe and celebrate Sikh and non-Sikh gods.
@Robert Karma #1.57: You are either quite naive, or an out and out liar. I have attended "tea party" meetings and rallies. Most, relative to reality, would have shamed a "craft class" in "Bedlam". "Tea party practitioners are both, exploiters of insanity among the certifiable insane, as well the acutely ignorant.
Why is it that when there is a violent shooting (Virginia Tech, Arizona, Colorado, etc...), Republicans and Gun Advocates are so quick to say, "Oh, that was the work of one, deranged individual...he doesn't represent all normal, law-abiding gun owners."
And yet, when one Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism, the same Republicans are calling for an American invasion of the Middle East and trying to ban Sharia Law?
It's seems like such an obvious double-standard.
Excuse me. Meant; Robert Karma # !.87: Sorry about that.
Robert, don't let truth get in the way of your lying.
Moozie-Mozzie- Whatever. You may want to talk a crazy guy out of killing you-good luck with that. What would you have done in the theater? Tried to talk to him or protect yourself and family if you could?
Very well said, Arthur66! Two thumbs, way up! And you know up where, Sailor!
LOL! Hey Larry be careful who you are calling tards and ignorant. You are making a fool of yourself. The victims weren't even Muslims.
C'mon, Arthur. You are hiding from the fact it is the TP's offical website and the guy is a founder of your "movement". Racism is a fundamental part of the Tea Party's failed ideology and the 8 million people you are claiming are teabaggers have been whittled down considerably over the last few years by their hateful antics. The numbers of TP chapters nationwide have plummeted from more than 1000 in 2010 down to 600 and the numbers continue to decline. Enjoy your "movement" while it lasts, Arthur, and next time you are at a TP rally, be sure wear clean sheets.
I can't wait til Louis Gohmert says that somebody should have had a gun in their turban.
Indians are Caucasian.
Sikhs are pacifists.
This is one ignorant country we've got going here.
WallStFatCat, You have to hit a charging Bear in the heart to drop him. Remember the TV show,"The American Sportsman"? They went Grizzly Bear hunting with Bow and Arrow in Montana. The hunter had a 45 cal side arm as well. He said it was to use on himself if he didn't bring the Bear down and it charged him!
Carl Heidelberg,
when what sh!t goes down? That's the gun carrying fantasy isn't it, when the world crashes, you'll go out guns blazing. Dude, relax. Rambo called and wants his movie plot back from you, lol.
Riled Soldier,
name just one of the items you mentioned, other than the gun, that was designed to be a killing machine. Oh, that's right, zero. Got any other pointless points?
Too late T.J.MCStupidofBrooklyn... there's always been majority whites on welfare.
And don't try to throw your "stooopid", racist BS out, about the %s on welfare, goober-trash! That mule died a long time ago, inbred!
The NRA has contingency plans for when these things happen. They use their media connections and internet campaigns as a "quick response" in an attempt to keep public opinion swayed. But the more successful they are, the more guns are out there, and the higher the probability of something like this happening. So, their "quick response" may be getting more and more expensive to carry out these days.
In todays news moron gets killed while committing hate crime on wrong people! Apparently death imitates comedy, in that his death is now a joke!
hey brian turnipseed, the "M1a" (civilian M14) uses the 7.62x51MM round (308 winchester), the ak uses the 7.62x39. most definitely NOT the "same ammunition"
and then you proceed to call others ignorant about guns.
I am sick of mourning the dead. I want our politicians to STAND UP TO THE NRA AND GET ALL GUNS UNDER CONTROL!!!!!
Sailcat- from your own article it says he was removed from the event, you should've read your own article all the way through.
These are the Republican (Repuicks aka Re-PUBIC-lican) SKIN MALITIA BAASTARDS
I did read it. Despite being invited to leave after that embarrassing episode, Robertson continued to operate the Tea Party's website and, as one of the founders of the TP, was expressing one of the nastier points of view held by too many people within the movement. See the links I provided to photos of the racist signs that are all too common at Tea Party rallies. This movement is only a sheet away from joining the KKK as a bona fide hate group. That is why it is fading away throughout most of the country.
larrys comment is so amazingly typical of the ignorant right wingers that don't know the difference between a sikh and a muslim.
"gollee skip, deys all got dem rags on der heads, so dey must be dem sand -(nwords)"
then they wave there guns around and scream about how great America is and how "christian" they are (Jesus would puke at the sight of them)
Mac Forrester, "Tea Party practitioners are both, exploiters of insanity among certifiable insane, as well as the acutely ignorant". Wow that's quite a psychological evaluation on your part Dr. Mac. Did you couch each one individually our do it in small groups to determine their IQ status? Or is it just the norm to assume with you left wing nut jobs? You can't help yourself can you? You can't help but use this tragedy as a sounding board for your own political agenda. What were you doing at those rallies anyway, these are people whom you obviously either despise or feel superior to? Your analogy of the typical Tea Party member could easily be turned around to the left wing voter who would vote Obama if Sarah Palin herself was his running mate!
WallStFatCat (1.118),
Sorry for my late reply, was out tending the horses. fenderbluesjr (1.127) offered you proof and that says enough. Adrenaline is a wonderous thing is it not? Stay in the city for safety's sake. You wouldn't last a day out here.
Hats off to this Hero Cop and deepest sympathy to the victims and their families.
As a means of establishing intelligence, the very fact these people are members of the Tea Party movement is more than enough to determine they are all light by a couple of dozen IQ points, not to mention they lack any perceptible integrity and moral character. By the way, you wouldn't happen to be a Tea Party member by any chance, would you?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/10-most-offensive-tea-par_n_187554.html
People are dead, and this thread quickly morphs into a white/conservative/Tea Party/NRA bash fest. Just another day on Newsvine in libland. Meanwhile these same liberals engaged in the attacking hysterics completely ignore the latest statistics out of so-called gun free Chicago and Washington DC. Laughable. See you left wing emotion-driven drones at the polls in November when my vote cancels your Obama vote.
@Chris, comment 1.11
You're wrong. I get your point, and I in no way condone the racist comment that prompted your response, but facts are facts, Jack:
In FY 2009, white families comprised 31.2% of TANF families, black families comprised 33.3%, and 28.8% were Hispanic.
From: Characteristics and Financial Circumstances of TANF Recipients Fiscal Year 2009
As someone else pointed out, the fact that Blacks are just 14% of the population makes their use of welfare disproportionate to their demographic's representation in overall population. There are a number of social reasons for this, however, and only a fool would indicate that the color of their skin was the cause of it.
As to the case at hand, sadly, this is almost assuredly the work of a racist. I just don't see it coming out any other way. What a POS. I hope the community of Sikh's can rebound from this intolerance-- which (and I stress this) is not representative of the majority of Americans. This is not representative of American gun owners, the GOP, the DNC or any other major demographic. The only punks that celebrate horror such as this are fringe lunatics that make up (I'm guesstimating here) less than 1/2 of 1% of all Americans. Maybe less.
At least this f*cktard is dead. Saves on a trial and all the loony BS that accompanies one.
Ethnicity has nothing to do with this. A very troubled individual that went off the deep end. It's happened before with white people, black people, teenagers, postal workers etc. etc. etc. If you want to find out about a religion that respects all forms of life, google the Jains. I believe it's the oldest organized religion on the face of the Earth, or something like that. They don't even step on an ant or a cockroach. Imagine that. Can Catholicism, Judaism or Christianity make the same claim?
Well Sailor there you guys go again with your pigeon holing reverse bigotry. You are either a left wing nut job or you are obviously a member of the KKK! Oh but with all that intelligence you nut jobs posess that us right wingers are so slow to comprehend remember this. Wisconsin baby! That little recall you and your arrogant posse had in the bag! That backfire had to sting but nowhere near as it will in November! JANUARY 20, 2013 THE END OF AN ERROR! And no, Sailcat, I'm a Conservative with liberal leanings, by that the Gov should provide for those in need and not enslave them for a voting base. Like your party did in Chicago and continues to this day and that stench has worked it's way to the White House.
Local news in Mn had it 20 people shot, national news reported 30 people.......?????
Well people like Bachmann spouting off like a dog whistle for those who feed on her nonsense. When Bachmann goes off making hate stuff up her campaign contributions go up. What do you expect would happen? Palin did it, didn't take long and Gabby was shot.
captn curtass,
That's the problem with religion. You have to really search for one that doesn't have followers that think they should control everyone else's lives, dictating laws and policies, and frowns upon everyone that doesn't agree. They think "oh, you haven't seen the light" or "you haven't gotten it yet" or "you haven't been enlightened" or "have you listened to jesus". Everyone thinks their god or religion is the right one when they are all fairy tales full of oppression and death with sugar on top to sell it to kids and impressionable people. Insanity.
Sorry, random rant, lol.
So let me get this straight, this guy is considered a terrorist, but the idiot who shot the folks up at the movie theater isn't a terrorist? I'm confused. Why can't the guy at the movie theater be one too? Did he not terrorize those folks as well?
fenderblue...you.......liberal leanings..?..yah....too funny.....I believe that like I believe Romney is not hiding his income tax documents.
How do you like those voter suppression laws repubs put in place because of ALEC. Repubs meet twice a year with CEO's and plan laws they can pass for them for their greed. One of them is voter suppression laws. 758,000 people in Pennsylvania removed from the voters while Penn, repub bragged voter suppression law, done deal, now Romney can win the election. Repubs rigging the elections by removing elderly, poor, and the young from being able to vote....THERE IS YOUR STENCH fender, every time you post the stench of voter suppression follows you! Some of the people removed are repubs too! You repubs don't care about Americans, only the greedy rich!
I'm sort of on two minds about this, on one hand with the shooter being dead we won't have to listen to his ranting or his council trying to get him off on an insanity plea. But on the other hand, we can't question him to find out if he was alone in this.
Yeah, and Sarah Palin got Gabby Gifford shot, right starsailing?
The fact that we have 10 times more guns per capita than any other country on earth can have nothing to do with this.
The fact that the vitriol of our politics and religion has reach heights never seen before in our history can't be in play here either.
Must be the f@#king weather.
Geeze, it's not difficult; turban and beard, sikh. Rag and beard, muslim. The sikhs are alright; next time look for the CAIR sign....
I guess we'll just have to get used to having mass shootings every couple of weeks or so. That's the price we must pay so that gun fans can have enough guns to protect us from Barack Obama's storm troopers and black helicopters.
CNN just reported that the gunman used semi-automatics. I kind of suspected that would be the case, given the high death toll. If your a crazy person who wants to kill the maximum number of people in the minimum amount of time, semi-automatics are your weapon of choice.
@ danwill 1.137 --thank you for setting folks straight.
@Fred Craven
Brian Turnipseed: In your posting #1.48 above, you make a reference to the AK-47 as a semi-automatic rifle. If I remember, it is a fully automatic rifle. It is the SKS that is semi automatic. Both shoot the NATO standard 7.62mm ammunition. I don't know which ammunition the M1A uses.
since the AK and the SKS originated in the former Soviet Union why on earth would you assume that they shoot a NATO cartridge? they were the folks on the other side of the Cold War, remember?
7.62x39 is not the same as 7.62x51 (7.62 NATO)
PJ-1795048, you are misinformed about the belief system of Sikhism. Sikhism, in fact, is a monotheistic religion and does not believe in any of the Hindu Gods. Sikhs are NOT allowed to marry outside of their religion. Sikhism is a distinct religion, separate from Hinduism and Islam. As a matter of fact, the Ninth Sikh Guru, Guru Teg Bahadur, sacrificed his life to protect Hinduism. Sikhs have always supported and fully advocated freedom of religion.
Sikhs have been a common target after 9/11 because of the close outward appearance similarities with Islam. Sikhs wear a turban and keep their hair unshorn for identity purposes; this was decided in 1699 by the Tenth and the last living Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. Sikhs stand out in a crowd of millions because of their identity and let's hope that we don't need more tragic incidents to learn the differences between Sikhs and Muslims.
Or it could just be, you know, the fact that most civilian firearms are semi-automatic. Do you even know what the term means?
When someone who is not the police, military or some other security firm begins to purchase tactical armor for themselves, maybe a bullet-proof vest (but fully body armor?), their paranoia should be the first tip that there's not something quite right with them. Look at Joey? Got himself several semi-automatic rifles and pistols and a ton of tactical body armor - I sure feel sorry for those deer! Hey wait, deer don't shoot back!
The trolls (Rpgs) are out there today. Always got to politicize every @!$%#ing thiing, don't you. And your poor excuses for candidates are another incredible sign that America is in serious trouble. Voter suppresssion laws, no less, espoused by the very people who are trying to claim a monopoly on patriotissm and Americanism. The founding fathers would puke.
WMG-21
Excuuuuse me! I just didn't know that there were so many civilians hiding guns holding 100-round clips that fire 50 rounds a minutes in their pockets like the one used in Aurora. I learn something new every day. Too bad so much of it is B.S. like what you're slinging.
direct1 (1.161),
You got it. My rounds are all FMJs with no modifications.
WMG (1.162),
If he had only a pair of my grand-dad's Navy 6s (1851 Colt Navy - Cap and Ball, 6 shot), he still would have taken out quite a few. I know Wild Bill Hickok loved them.
TheKahnKubla (1.163),
You may be on to something there. It would be good to at least question those that want body armor.
@Starsailing, Gabby was shot by a democrat. The last 3 mass shootings were by democrats, does Palin have that much influence? No one knows much about the shooter yet but there is a 55% chance it was another dem just by demographics alone. So keep running you're unimformed mouth.
dissapointed, right on. Religions are like farts, yours is ok, but everyone else's stinks. The world is a wonderful place.
Houston,
Easy now, from the story:
I have an 8 shot M1911 pistol. It takes all of 2 seconds to reload with a fresh magazine.
Probably an ignorant red-neck (otherwise they would have identified him by now), who believes Sikh's of South Asia, are really Muslims from the Middle East. His ignorance probably tells him, they wear turbans, and have beards, they must be Muslim.
Fred Craven, Ak-47's that are made in the US or are imported into the US are semi-automatics only. The production of fully automatics for civilian population ended in May 1986. There are only about 230k fully automatics that can be legally sold in the US. So chances are the Ak-47 he is talking about is a semi-automatic only version of it.
Or a pump action shot gun.
I dont see a problem with the current gun laws, the problem is punishment. When the punishment is life in prison thats 3 meals a day, ac, free health care, drugs, sex, ect.. ect.. there is really no punishment . We have laws that let criminals get away with the crime without severe enough punishment.
Make the punishment for murder with a gun so severe that no one will want to do it. In both the Arizona shooting and the Col. shooting they were caught with the gun and should have been executed on the spot. this may sound cruel but what they did was just as bad and I for one feel no compassion for them.
Maybe they haven't identified him because he is a liberal asswipe and they are trying to hide it(just about as stupid a statement as your moron)
You are totally correct rmc357, With those kind of laws implemented you would be reading a lot less of these horrible stories!
Lil' Debbie, you know how to spot the trolls too. Cool. Now can you help me with a problem that's bugging the heck out of me? Should I vote for Obamney or Romama? What do you think? Or should I just do the best I can to can all those a$$holes in Washington?
...yet just last year, a man took down an attacking Brown Bear in Alaska, with nothing more than a .45 semi-automatic pistol.
I wonder if you are as much of a shot as you say you are.
@fenderblueetr#1.143: I suspect you are defending "tea partyism" because you are either an instigator or believer of that irrational bullsh^t. While it is your choice, it is not your right to exaggerate the delusions of fools. Course fools don't know that, therefore, responsible people must call such people to account whenever and wherever we note their rantings. Might not effect the fools, but might reform the ignorant. Just as with your post, when tea party people speak, the lucid and honest, don hip boots and raise umbrellas. I will add here; your attempt at analogy was rather silly.
dman (1.176),
Why are you coming after me? Google "How many shots does it take to kill a black bear?", will you? I am not here to educate you. Plenty of stories out there other than my own.
The first eyewitness said there were 4 shooters dressed in black who entered the temple. Police at first reported 2 shooters. Later the police changed it to 1 shooter but, in the meantime, other eyewitnesses came forward and said there were 4 shooters. I'm of the opinion it was a government controlled shooting as this is a Socialist gov't that's bound and determined to erase the Second Amendment and this is a part of their agenda. In the Aurora shootings there were eyewitnesses who claimed there were 2 shooters and that gas cannisters were rolled across the floor from 2 sides of the theater. Both these disasters smell to high heaven and I believe if you follow the odor it leads right back to the WH.
Mac, I don't see anything irrational about the Tea Party(although there are extremes in any group, a lot less in the TeaParty than ocw), I would like to submit to you the VERY irrational bull@!$%# from the ocw morons. Just do a search and see which group is the most irrational. I can see you are the delusional person between the two of you, some of the most ignorant people are from the left. Wether you like Fox news or not try watching it sometime when they talk to the ocw people or even the general population in Ca. its laughable, and you call TeaParty people fools.
AK-47 fanatics, et al:
Please spare us the usual jingoisms - "When guns are made criminal, only criminals will have guns", etc. In almost every instance of this type, the assault is being committed by a (up to that moment) law-abiding citizen - someone who is permitted to legally purchase as much firepower as his imagination will allow. And you, dear NRA member, not only defend and applaud the purchase, you encourage it.
"But (you'll object) we don't want crazy people to buy them." At the same time, you don't recognize mental illness as a motivating factor in mass killings: "Don't waste my tax dollars on treatment. Fry 'em now!"
If the NRA does not institute a method for sorting out the starry-eyed gun nuts from those who are clinically gun crazy, and is not willing to articulate the difference, then the NRA will eventually die.
Reasonable people will not put up with this forever.
You know Mac your rhetoric sounds a lot like Jesse Jackson Sr. It doesn't make any sense,just a bunch of nonsense. Like I explained to your peanut gallery, what makes you so damn intelligent, with your hubris power of psychological evaluation? And what the hell was a genius like you doing at those rallies? I don't believe you were at those rallies. You are a dyed in the wool, left wing nut job bigot, you should revel in that you are a great one. You are so holier than thou you couldn't stand to be around those whom responsible people like yourself showed the error of their thinking.But hey, gotta go,my BBQ ribs are ready and I love you Mac but you aint worth a dead pig! :)
rtsob, I will agree that in almost instances like this one the guns may have been purchased legally, that being said MOST of the crimes committed with guns ARE by criminals. You try spin the position of the NRA, they have never advocated anyone but legal citizens own guns, and by them pushing this you seem to think they are ok with crimes with guns. I nor the NRA will object to not wanting crazy people to have guns, but there is no way for anyone to tell who is GOING to be crazy enough to do something like this. So by stating that it is the resposibility of the NRA to institute a method for sorting this out is ludicris.
Reasonable people do not put unreasonable request on anyone.
You misunderstood my post. I did not have a disagreement with this person. There is no need for your sarcasm.
Sailcat: You have got to be one of the dumbest most insensitive asses I have seen post here. No need to discuss gun control and gun ownership laws. We will never convince each other to change our views, it just won’t happen. To think because I support our second amendment rights that I don’t care that people were injured and killed is moronic. I care a great deal about anyone that is a target of senseless violence whether is with a gun, a drunk driver, or a suicide bomber. The people who are hurt and killed have families and loved ones who will suffer a great deal because of this tragedy. We just went through this ugliness a few weeks ago in Colorado and I don’t feel any different today than I did then. So if you have the ability to think or maybe you could rub a couple of brain cells together you will know because some one elects to own a weapon doesn’t mean they aren't caring, loving and compassionate people. You need to grow up and see thing for the way things really are.
We are finishing our last few weeks of a 2 year commitment in Mexico, A beautiful place with no hope. You can't have guns here, but all the wrong people do.....even children. Keeping guns from good people means only the bad will have them. These kids won't live to be 15 years old.
ewent - Great posts, thank you. You are so right about the ignorant, white male and their guns. I believe they think having a big gun is an extension of their manhood. A perfect example of this is Larry on the thread above who thinks the victims of this carnage were Muslims. Sad...
Joan,
are you insane? Obama is staging these mass shootings to justify banning the 2nd amendment? You are a complete nitwit. That's just as bad as saying that George Bush let 9/11 happen on purpose. Don't be psychotic. You are embarrassing everyone with that ridiculousness.
this is nothing out of the norm for our increasing population and divisiveness, we just hear more of it for many reasons. do you hear about all the mass murder that happens in africa or south america? not really. but i can assure you that mass murder happen a lot more in other hell holes so be thankful you live somewhere where you not likely to get pulled our your car, raped and beaten to death all while people walk by and stare, its pretty common in some countries. this guy is a criminal not a domestic terrorist, maybe someone can grab a dictionary and actually learn the definition instead of letting the government and media tell you what 'is' is.
i bet most of you dont even know why we have the second amendment, it has nothing to do with being able to hunt or protect yourself from other citizens and animals, that was common sense back then to allow hunters and homeowners a means to hunt and defend. we have the second amendment to protect us from government enslavement. our founding fathers knew at some point the government would try to enslave its citizens like most governments past and present has so they put the second amendment in to allow citizens a means to protect themselves in the event that the government at any level ever became all powerful and started taking GOD GIVEN rights away. we have the right to abolish the government and start over stated right in the declaration of independence.
that was the idea at least, it still didnt stop the government from trying and succeeding in taking away rights given by god and expressed in the DoI, preamble, articles and bill of rights. government allowed slavery, discrimination, unfair trade practices and many other things that were forbidden already in the original constitution. when the DoI says "..all men are created equal" it didnt say 'all white men' or 'all men but blacks.' so how did the courts allow slavery and why did we fight a civil war over things that were already defined in the US constitution like commerce, equality and states rights? when the original DoI said "...life, liberty and property" why did it get changed to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" is or was happiness guaranteed or even obtainable to each? the government has been manipulating our contract with them since the beginning until they have full power and they will enslave us. you think counties like what the EU consist of or any country in asia, africa, south america have free citizens? no they do not, they are not free from government control and neither are we.
our fathers tried an experiment that has failed countless times prior but they thought they had created the right path for success but failure is too easy for the masses. we cannot self-rule.
@fenderbluestr#1.182: You might want to consider cooking those ribs before you eat 'em. Be careful!, might bite your tongue.
Srich (1.186),
Great example of a failed social policy. Amazing how something so obvious eludes so many people.
Swagganaut (1.189),
Well said!
Too bad that we let the 2nd Amendment overrule good judgement and allow these things to happen. 50,000+ American lives wasted each year so some people can have their toys.. Amost none killed in the UK this way and knives don't count for many either if you right wing nuts want to use that lame excuse.
disappointed and ashamed.
Are you a sane indivdual?
Swag: thank you. Your last sentence is so true, the reason is the people forgot WHY they fought for their freedom from England. "Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it".
Crinimal don't follow the law, thus they are criminals. This is where law enforcement comes in. Laws are only as good as enforcement. Let's try enforcing our current laws and see where that gets us.
We could add a bunch of new laws to the books but if they are enforced as poorly as the current laws then what would be the point?
Byron (1.93) - "So I assume you support all these same restrictions on guns as well? A required gun safety course, a test, insurance in case of misuse, a license to carry a gun, proof that I am fit to use a gun and a tag on the gun?"
In the Peoples Republic of Maryland, you have to take a required gun safety course (and pay the state $40) for EVERY hand gun you buy, regardless if you have taken it in the past. You must have a license to carry the gun. If you are convicted of certain crimes or are diagnosed with certain medical conditions, you loose your right to own the gun. And each gun is test fired (at a cost $50 to the buyer), with the State retaining a fired shell casing matched to each gun serial number. So, to answer your question, the state does require safety classes, a test, a license to carry, proof of fitness, and a registration to own the gun.
Looking at all you are required to do to own a gun, it seems daunting. But I enjoy sport shooting. Yes, there are deaths resulting from the misuse of guns. Even with all the safety procedure you mentioned that are in place for driving, 10's of thousands die in car accidents each year. Dunk drivers kill thousands, speeders kill thousands more. All are supposed to go through all the hoops you mentioned, yet unlicensed drivers kill on the highways every day. You can't stop them anymore then you can stop someone who is bent on killing with a gun It's just that the gun is an easy target for liberals and gun deaths are reported nationally while car deaths are reported mostly locally.
This is what happens when you have ignorant people like M. Bachmann and R. Limbaugh stirring up hate in this country. Intolerant ignorant fools that they are.
clwyd,
I'd like to think I am sane. Why do you ask? Should I really believe Obama is staging these mass shootings? I don't get your comment. Do you have a point? Did I say something to make you think otherwise?
disappointed and ashamed,
I apologize completely for not reading close enough. It is Joan who I should question the sanity of!
deging,
It is the law that allows all these guns into our hands that cost the lives of 50,000 that were mostly killed by other family members, neighbors and even soldiers. Multiply that times 10 years and you get 500,000 lives and times 20 you get 1,000,000. All because some want their toys. Add to that that many states have added "Conceal and Carry" and "Castle Laws " and things will only get worse.
@imho
don't see too many females in full body armor, armed to the teeth, boobytrapping their apartments, spraying bullets around do ya?
Sailcat:
"Racism is a fundamental part of the Tea Party's failed ideology"
This statement is carved out of pure fantasy. Your left-wing blog of a handful of signs from a rally of 2 million does nothing to prove anything. There were more anti-Semitic signs at "Occupy Oakland"!
"the 8 million people you are claiming are teabaggers"
Easy with the homo-erotic fantasies, pal.
"the numbers continue to decline."
Hahaha, tell that to Ted Cruz! Plus all 66 Tea Party Caucus Members won their primaries. If the Tea Party continues to represent the US Constitution, individual liberty, personal responsiblity and free markets - the #'s will only increase.
"next time you are at a TP rally, be sure wear clean sheets."
You're referring to the Robert Byrd wing of the Democrat Party, actually.
But "racism" is often the retort of the anti-intellectual who is unable to argue the merits of his case.
5.56mm, it's a 243.... Fail to see the point... A Guy not half a mile from me was killed when his son accidentally discharged a BB GUN, into his eye. The ammunition is not the damn point. You can get yer head blown off by a browning .50 cal, or get it bashed in with a meat tenderizer...
Pfffttttt, this is Wisconsin people.
Probably just another typical Liberal finally exploding from all that rabid secularism, hate, anger, rage, bigotry and racism they project on everyone else. Just like Loughner and Holmes this will be another disaster cause by Liberalism.
" ... Guns don't kill people. ... "
Um, let's see here .......
You take away this nuter's gun and how many dead people do you have? Take away the guns from the last nuter and how many dead people do you have in that theater? Hhhhuuuuuummmmmmm ......... ?????
Answer: NONE!
So guns don't kill people? Yea right. You just keep lying to yourself and everyone else like that. But in BOTH cases .....
NO GUN, NO DEAD PEOPLE!!
You can argue all you want. I own a gun. It's made to kill people. Nothing else.
And no you can't have it. I need it to protect myself, IE: kill people, from arseholes who say .....
" ... Guns don't kill people. ...
Gun enthusiasts, Let me say once again, I am not for taking guns away from law abiding citizens. But I think you should consider something, when is it that people get all hot for overhauling gun control laws? It is when someone goes berserk and shoots up a bunch of people. When there aren't people going crazy with guns, they tend to forget about it and leave you alone more, am I correct?
Seems to me, that the gun lover's worst enemy is guy causing all the concern. Fix that problem and you don't have to worry about people trying to come between you and your guns.
Just my two cents.
George - there are 4 hand guns in my gun locker. Not a single one has killed anything. None of my guns can shoot bythemselves. It takes a finger to pull the trigger, and a conscious thought to control that finger.
You asked; "Take away the guns from the last nuter and how many dead people do you have in that theater?" Said "nutter" also had explosives and incendiary devices to use. OJ killed with a knife. Ted Kennedy killed with a car. McVeigh killed with fertilizer. If a person wishes to kill, they will find a way.
Many people are killed in auto accidents, and many are run down on purpose. Do you wish to outlaw cars, fertilizer and kitchen knives? Why not get to the root cause and outlaw lawlessness rather than celebrate it in music, movies and books? You see inner city kids (and many surburban one too) glorifying "gansta rap" and wish to live that life style. Why not make it less attractive?
Hal - You may not wish to outlaw leagal ownership of guns, but many liberals wish to. And it is funny if you ask them why. Most say you do not need an assault rifle, and they may be right. I enjoy sport shooting, and do own what Libs would call an assault rifle (an M1 Carbine). I have no intention of giving up my rights to legal gun ownership.
People who want to kill will kill with what ever is available to them. They will kill with cars, rope, poison, bombs, or anything they can. You can not stop someone who wishes to kill from killing all the time. The ONLY reason people go after guns is because it is politically correct for libs to do so. Why not go after cars driven by serial drunk drivers who leave young women to die in the bottom of a river? Why not outlaw cars, or at least put a 7 day waiting period on them? Everybody has a doctor, and malpractice kills people every day. Are the Democrats, by forcing Obamacare on us, trying to kill more people each year due to medical malpractice? If you folks wish to blame the NRA for gun violence by sick people, should we blame the AMA for each and every case of malpractice that results in a death? Using your "logic" we should.
Leaving many comments collapsed for derailing.
Chris-749391, Brian Turnipseed, larry-5534379, rbjk0174s, you are all suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Address the issue, not other users. Thanks.
scopata messico banned for death wishing.
RabbitTrick
The gunman killed 7 people, wounded 3 other civilians, and shot the officer who finally killed him 9 times. That's at least 19 rounds fired. You nuts aren't so good at arithmetic, so I guess I have to explain to you that 19 is a bigger number than 8. I from what you've posted, I think you should keep your bullets in your pocket like Barnie Fife so that nobody gets hurt.
Having just returned from the BWCA on Saturday, I know what it is like in the "sticks" and I know what black bears are like. I said nothing about a rattle snake. I said one shot in the air would likely scare the bear away and killing it was not necessary. If you are so afraid black bears, maybe you should take your own advise and go back to watching TV.
RabbitTrick can't keep his arithmetic straight when counting bullets after reading the story. And his fish story about requiring 5 rounds from a M1A to bring down a brown bear is preposterous as well.
Then he talks like he's some kind of 'mountain man' living in the wild wilderness. I wouldn'be surprise if he's a city-slicker living in the heart of some big city with a fast cable internet connection but wants to project himself as a 'natural survivalist' living in the woods.
What a crock of crap.
"Do some research and look at the motives of the Ohio bridge perpetrators, the Va Tech, Aurora and Tuscon shooters - it is far more likely this murderer is either apolitical or a person of the radical left."
So, did any of these four actually state they are liberals?
The Ohio Bridge Perpetrators were self described anarchists, which generally doesn't have any ties to anyone, liberal or conservative.
Seung-Hui Cho was mentally disturbed when he shot up VA Tech. No known ties to the "radical left."
In the case with Jarod Loughner, why would a "radical liberal" shoot up a democratic rally? They just got him sane enough to plea 'guilty,' yet he hasn't explained what his motivation was.
What political party or ideology would drive James Holms to shoot up a movie theater? Not the first place a radical liberal would prepare a mass murder for three months for if you ask me. His targets were pretty random and there may not even be a message to convey.
Further examples:
The Oklahoma City bombing was done by far-right extremists who were anti-government and sympathized and likely became inspired by with the Branch Davidian cult's (the "wackos from Waco") shootout in a poorly planned raid that took place on the same day that would later become their anniversary, an ideal time to blow up the federal building. Sure, this wasn't a shooting and McVeigh didn't act alone but an act of terrorism is an act of terrorism.
Anders Behring Breivik was so far the only one who gave an explanation for his bombing a building in Oslo and shooting anyone on site at Utøya island a hour and a half later. He was quite open about his right- wing agenda and hated immigration and Muslims. He held nothing back, using his court appearences to explain his militant far-right beliefs to the media and promote his manifesto. It seemed to work as there was a boom in membership in far-right groups in Norway. Yes, he was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and was believed to psychotic when he commited his attacks, but he insists himself to be sane and most of us are inclined to believe he knew exactly what he was doing. He is going to be sentenced on the 24th of this month from what I read.
Last and not least, Wade Micheal Page, who shot up this Sikh temple, was a Hammerskin -- a hardcore neo-Nazi group with a reputation for violent attacks over the years. Now, is that Radical Left or Radical Right? You tell me!
@Houston
Semi-automatic refers to the mechanism by which the firearm loads a new round and resets the action. It has absolutely nothing to do with the capacity of the magazine.
As far as your comment at 1.210 regarding "arithmetic" and 8 being lower than 19, I should point out that #1 9mm rounds are smaller than the .45 ACP round of an M1911, so the difference in capacity is predominantly controlled by the physical limitations of how many of what sized bullet you can fit into the handle of the handgun. #2 The trade off in capacity using a 9mm is that it has less stopping power than a .45 ACP. #3 a semi-automatic handgun (or any firearm) can accept magazines of various size and it is unlikely that the individual in this case fired all 19 rounds from a single magazine. Most 9mm have a capacity between 15 and 17 rounds. #4 there are revolvers with similar capacity -- a particular french-made revolver had a 20-round wheel magazine.
The statement regarding 8 rounds in one magazine of a M1911 had more to do with the fact that a magazine change is quick (2 seconds or so) and suddenly you have 16 rounds, or 24, etc. The same can be said of a 9mm or any magazine-fed firearm. However, there are "speed loaders" for all manner of firearms, from revolvers to bolt action rifles.
I think your confusion stems from a considerable misunderstanding of what a semi-automatic firearm is, what it's capabilities are, and what sorts of limitations it has. You might be surprised to know, for example, that the highest number of hits at 300 yards from a bolt-action rifle (notice that is hits on target, not shots fired) in 1 minute is 38. It was achieved during a military training exercise of yester-year known as "The Mad Minute." So, basically, restricting semi-automatic firearms in no way restricts the capacity of a skilled shooter to send lead down-range.
I suggest googling "semi-automatic" and learning a thing or two, rather than loudly exclaiming pronouncements about them that are misleading at best, and completely false at worst.
Freaks
What the HELL, why all these mass shootings are happening.? Did We manufacture the huge lot of arms, and exported TERRORISM to whole of the world for this day that these are being used at home.???
hererere we go again. blaming everyone except the person responsible.
BIG J: blaming michelle bachman and sarah palin? seriously? your comment is also threatening and i have not idea why it hasn't been collapsed. oh wait, i know. you said something derogatory about conservatives. fair and balanced as usual nbc.
First off as far as I know none of the pass several mass murderers have been former United States Military. Second, do any of these people know why they came to America, have they ever heard the saying "when it Rome do as the Romans do". As far as I am concerned when you took the oath to become Americans citizens that means you should blend and adapt to America. If you want to practice a godless religion then you need to do it after dark and underground. Of course thats the way I feel about homosexuals to except I can tolerate these people more. Serious people why did you come here and stake out a section of America to start your own Cuba, China, Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan, Mexico, you would have been more readily accepted if you had not done this. You come here and refuse to celebrate our traditions for our independence and you attempt to install your laws of which is a mixed government/religion. You refuse to solute our flag and want to raise your former country's flag. I tell you if you do this you need and are encourged to return to where you came from, True Americans do not want you here. The muslims need to read this more than others because they are very anti-American and seek to have their shariah laws take over our laws. Their government/religion is the most hatefull and violent that there is. Their islamic gov./religion calls for everyone to except their teachings or die and it does not matter if they are women and children. They use their own family members to commit suicide for their religion. They even murder their own race because of their religion. Christians of different beliefs have learned we can still live in peace as pur core faith is the same., but not the arabs. In Africa the so called true muslims kill and murder men and wome and children in the black race that had excepted the islam religion and became muslims and call them monkeys. What is most disturbing is that the blacks in America embrace this religion with no reguard for their brethren in Africa. I am truly sorry for these familys that were killed and hurt I pray that God will give you peace in the days to follow. This is claimed to be a hate crime even before anything is found out about these murders. I suggest we wait and get all the information first, and do not pay attention to the news media they never tell it like it really is.
Jerry, what are you talking about?? These were not Muslims--they are Sikhs! And perhaps you should ask yourself why your family came to America too, because we are all descendents of immigrants, remember? Unless you are of the First Nations. America has freedom of religion, which means exactly that--people are free to engage in whatever religion they want, as well as to not engage at all. Sikhism is not a "godless religion;" it is an extremely respectable faith with members of the highest integrity. They have every right to be Americans and practice their faith, the same as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and followers of the Spaghetti Monster. What is most disturbing is people like you who express bigoted opinions that are not even based on the facts at hand.
I have a hard differentiating hate crimes or rather crimes in the name of some cause or Religion. I do think our Political leaders and TV Personalities should be held responsible for their speech. History has shown no weapon is more deadly then the spreading of fear.
"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice go hand in hand" -NP
Well said, woodrat!
@ Jerry: So sad that you took the time to actually type out all that hate. I wish I could get back the time it took me to read it. smh... Peace be with you.
Signed,
A Proud Christian Lady
Proud Christian Lady, you must have a stronger stomache than I. I read about four lines and gave up. Here it goes again. Perhaps our next deranged mass murderer wannabe.
Jerry, you are a christian pig. Take your god and stuff it. Please move to the America in your head and leave the real one. This is a country of amazing people, with many varieties of cultures and religions. That is what the founding fathers intended. Not your twisted christian views. The time of the fat cat white bigot christian are OVER. So, you will wither away into history with your racist pig caveman ideals. Bye now!
d&a you can't be serious, you talk of a country with many cultures and religions and advocate tolerance for them, but then you totally disregard the Christian faith. You are the poster child of the liberal left, you only tolerate what you want and criticize the rest, this in my opinion is the main reason why this country is going downhill as fast as it is. The left are the racist, the bigots, but I have some good news the general public is begining to see what the liberal left is all about and they don't like it. It is you and your ilk that will wither away into history the only differance is no one will remember you.
Ok.
Oh, rmc357,
Christians have killed more in the name of god throughout history than any other religious cult. Even more than Muslims that you love to hate ever have. Sorry. The christian faith is the worst of them all. You have the most blood on your hands. Metaphorically speaking.
Jerry you had good points though I don't agree with everything you said. I have to admit, I had to look up the definition myself........
Disappointed and Ashamed- I think you are confusing Christianity vs Religion. Your final statements are nonsensical. Christianity itself goes back 2000 years, and people were murdering one another way before that. I am a Christian and I subscribe to a belief system, but I will not honor any physical church, unless it can remain a beneficial weekly gathering without prejudice and self servitude. I believe your comments were directed in general at the Catholic Cult and it's reign of terror which has switched from murder to child rape as it's forefront. I personally prefer to not be categorized with them as a Christian. I can't give you actual statistics for murder in the name of Christianity, but in general real Christians don't subscribe to it.
Where are all of you anti gun nuts shouting your rants of indignation with Fast and Furious? I have seen racial comments on here about the “white guy” and if guns were banned this wouldn’t have happened and on, and on and on. Yet the same liberal anti gun nuts do nothing but make excuses for Obama, blame Bush and support Holder for their actions. I guess the deaths of many Mexican nationals and a Boarder Patrol agent doesn’t matter. The current administration put weapons in the hands of criminals and you are worried about me legally obtaining a gun; are you nuts? You are the ones that we should worry about. Make up your mind; you can’t have it both ways. I know it isn’t ALL Democrats or All Liberals that are making the noise, that would be as ignorant as saying only conservatives and Republicans believe in the Second Amendment and gun ownership.
Jerry. FYI, Sikhs have been among the world's worst victims of Islamic extremism. They are not Muslim. There have been patriotic Sikh immigrants in the US since the late 19th Century, in my state, for example.
Whatever the murderer's motives, my guess is that'll involve three factors: the heat, poor education, and mental health issues.
when are people going to stop the hate? No-matter what their beliefs or country of origin should Anyone be treated like that. Especially in America. Political hatred on this posts are no better. Shame.
Show an ounce of decency folks.
Comments like the ones from Jerry are the precise reason why we have these lunatics running around with rifles and assault weapons...damn straight this is an act of domestic terrorism!! If it was a brown guy shooting up a church, we wouldn't be hesitating about calling it terrorism would we?
Where are all your religious nuts right now? You know, the ones that cling to your gods and guns!!...that is except when the victims are brown people that you don't like. There is so much cultural ignorance in this country and an obvious lack of understanding the world..hell, based on Jerry's comments, he has no effin clue that freedom of religion means .....freedom of religion (not freedom of christianity and screw everyone else)...yet he's the type that will follow the teabagger line of returning to the Constitution...that is unless a bunch of darkies get shot up in a place of worship...how effin sad are we???!!!! No wonder we've become the worlds laughing stock and get shoes tossed at us.
my diepest sympath to thos peopel from the sighs church!!!!pray for all! elisabeth from canada
disappointed and ashamed is obviously a self-loathing bigot
Red Herring anyone? While this is truely a tragic event, I notice that the feds are quick to say Domestic Terrorism like event. We do not have any info on this crime. Why the jump to that conclusion? I worry that with the NDAA in place, are our freedoms being systematically taken away with possible false flag actions. Scary times. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims.
I went to Wikipedia to enlighten myself on Sikh's and Sikhism. Sad I had to learn about them this way and hope a lot of good and mass enlightenment will come out of such a tragedy.
I don't make this stuff up folks.
Read the bible. Both versions. Not just the nice one. The history of religion is out there to be discovered by anyone who wants to look for it. It's awful. It isn't me. I don't subscribe to it.
It's you Arthur and people like you. If you believe in Jesus and the King James version of the bible then you have to believe in the Old Testament too. Can't have one without the other. Talk about a fascinating read. It's full of violence and destruction. Worse than any Hollywood script.
So don't start calling me out unless you look at the religion that you tote as your guideline. I'm sorry Srich, Christianity is what most ignorant white bigot racist liars use as there shield. I know it hurts to hear it, but let me know where i'm wrong.
I myself can't understand why we haven't left religion behind. It hasn't really been the highlight of human history by any means. Maybe, honestly, we can just be proactive intelligent human beings that are color blind and take care of each other. This could be a beautiful paradise for all of us to enjoy. But, religion killed that idea.
Maybe when pmsnbc and the rest of the state-run liberal media stop making martyrs out of these @!$%#s they will quit the copycatting.
DJ0123.....What the HELL, why all these mass shootings are happening.? Did We manufacture the huge lot of arms, and exported TERRORISM to whole of the world for this day that these are being used at home.??? ..... Relax larry the liberal, it was a freakin handgun..sheesh ya big wussy
Can we please stand united as Americans to help to educate the ignorant?? We have to be the change we want to see in the world, and clearly we have to start now. Please pass on the infomation you have learned about Sikhism to someone who doesn't know about it. Lets celebrate the diversity that makes America so beautiful and unique. Every day we fight to live a healthy lifestyle and increase our longevity, but what does it matter when we are killing each other because of hatred and ignorance?
First of all, I pray for the families of the people who were killed in this extremely unfortunate incident. Seems like all the evidence is pointing to a hate crime. Evil at its height.
d&a - talk about ignorance... You obviously have a completely warped view on what TRUE Christianity and the Bible is all about. I suggest that you read the Bible again (I doubt you've read it cover to cover even once based on your ignorant comments) and next time pay attention to how things from both books (New and Old Testament) connect and what the actual purpose is for all that talk about violence and destruction. Jesus is the epitome of peace, love, and equality. He is also our only link to everlasting life. His teachings and the actual meaning of the Bible go against the selfish, power hungry "religion" that you ignorantly placed in the same catagory. You seem very confused because you talk like a life without Jesus is a better one, but you couldn't be further from the TRUTH. Living without God's guidance is like betting your entire life on a game that you don't know how to play...or even care to learn how to play. Its astonishing how many people are out there starting a fight AGAINST OUR CREATOR. So true how the Bible says "the road to Hell is wide and the road to Heaven is narrow"... Sad but so true.
okay here is some correct info about Sikhism
(p.s. PJ-1795048 your totally wrong)
if you dont know what your talking about PLEASE dont write it because people like you are the ones spreading this false information of the real identity of SIKHS causing even more confusion and hatred
1. Sikhism is a monotheistic religion believing in one supreme power (GOD). (Again PJ-1795048 you where totally wrong) We do not believe in any Hindu God or Gods, but do believe that the Hindu and any other religion have the full right to worship them or who ever they worship.
2. The religion was actually founded in what used to be combined Pakistan and India, before they split, mainly the region of Punjab (Once more PJ-1795048 your HALF wrong because India is in South Asia)
3. Most importantly we are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RELIGION {SIKHISM} with our own ideologies and beliefs.
WE are NOT MUSLIM NOR HINDU!!!! WE ARE SIKH!!!
Sikh people are friendly with all religions and have a positive attitude toward the customs and rituals that other religions practice and sometimes take part in them to honor and respect them. This doesnt mean we practice them and are considered the same
Doing so does not make us part of them or them part of us. We are still devoted to our own thoughts and customs
We congratulate others for what they believe but at the same time dont think that our religion is superior to theirs. (PJ-1795048 your totally wrong once again DO YOU SEE A PATTERN!!)
4. Sikh people are not supposed to marry Hindus or Muslims or anyone outside of Sikhism, but as in any religion people do what they want to in order to live a happy life.. I am not saying that those who marry outside of their religion are wrong because who are WE to judge someone about their life and tell them who they should spend the rest of their life with.
5. A Sikh is characterized as someone who wears a head covering, has long not cut hair, and full not shaved beard AND mustache. Sikhs are not allowed to shave or cut their hair and the turban that we wear is sacred to our identity.
WE ARE ALL CREATION OF GOD
I am no better than you as you are no better than I.
PJ-1795048 your totally wrong and get your facts straight because people like you cause confusion and hate crime like these to spread from false and unsupported information based on your bias or thoughts
They are SIKH
SIKH
NOT MUSLIM NOT HINDUSIKH
NOT MUSLIM NOT HINDUSIKH
NOT MUSLIM NOT HINDUand once more SIKH TOTALLY DIFFERENT RELIGION
hope all the ignorant once can see this instead of reading huge paragraphs describing the difference
MY GUESS IS MAYBE THEY DON'T LIKE READING!! HOPE THATS THE RIGHT GUESS OR THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO HELP THE POOR SOULS THAT HAVE TROUBLE READING AND USING THEIR BRAINS
GOD HELP THESE PEOPLE
ONCE AGAIN THEY ARE SIKH
GET IT RIGHT SIKH
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS LOOK IT UP (CONSIDERING THE IGNORANT ONES STILL WON'T)
getting tired of all the ignorance and hatred people have they need to notice they are not the center of the world
When I was in high school, shortly after 9/11, a Sikh temple in my hometown was burned down with people inside because a group of ignorant thugs thought they were Muslim. I worked on a committee to help raise money to rebuild the temple. During one of the fund raisers, I met a man that lost his young daughter in the fire because she was hiding and they couldn't find her. Though he had tears in his eyes talking about that day, he was the most forgiving person I've ever met. I am currently serving our country, deployed to a Muslim state, though extremism is prevalent it also does not encompass a majority of Muslims . There are good and bad within any group of people. It is our responsibility to be educated enough to know the difference of each group and the difference between good and bad people, embrace the good and eradicate the bad. I am also a police officer and would like to thank the brave officers that put their lives at risk to protect their community. I hope all the victims have a speedy recovery and my thoughts and prayers go out to all involved in this tragedy.
I think that main problem in this country is the lack of education I agree with 19am19 people need to learn and need to be educated about different religions. I mean before this horrific event I bet 99% of people had no idea what or who a Sikh was. I think that this should be addressed as a major problem in the US to educate Americans on different religions most importantly Sikhism because ever since 9/11 Sikhs have been falsely targeted and represented as being Muslims which should and should not have been a problem until soon people considered as being a Muslim to being a Terrorist.
So basically Americans need to be educated and need to refrain from being ignorant minded and accept that they are not the center of the universe and let go of all the feelings of ego build up in them that they are superior to any other because ultimately WE ARE ALL HUMAN.
Comment # 2 restored for clarity.
Comment # 3 deleted, derail.
@SinghSher1 - if you are so right then why write it as if you are doing propaganda?
I already said that Sikhism was meant to be a separate religion just like jainism and buddhism - but over time it hasn't been able to shed vedic influence and ALL sikhs I know believe in Hindu gods. Sikhs holy scriptures contains praises of Lord Krishna and Ram. So what are you talking about. The focus on sikkhism (just like buddhism and jainism) was more about improving then existing vedic religious practices. They had to give a name to the new religion and they did. But eventually all those religions as well as the religion they revolted against (i.e. Vedic religion) all adjusted themselves and what we have is a beautiful mixture of various religions called - hinduism.
You don't know your head from your ass. Stop the propoganda and start reading. Also stop talking like all those anti India canadian fanatic sikhs otherwise just STFU.
You would think that SinghSher1 would know more about his own religion than you do. What next, are you going to give a Jew a lesson on Kosher butchering?
First of all I am a hindu .... so do know a thing or two about my religion. Secondly since when the qualification to talk about a religion is to be born in it. So why do nonmuslims and non-catholic people critique/criticize those religions? Third - if you actually read my posts - you wouldn't have had asked the question you did.
PJ-1795048 : You are a member of RSS in USA ? because only RSS hindus talk the way you do. The problem with you guys is that you think of sikhs as a branch of hinduism and that's just not the case. The holy book of the sikhs contains verses from muslim , hindu and many other scholars and saints of that era. The Golden Temple's foundation was laid by a muslim.
The Indian govt. also now recognizes sikhs as a minority of India with a separate marriage act called the Anand Karaj Act.
Please know your facts and also read up on Sikh history.
Wild guess here... um, guns again? Thought so. Nope, no gun problem here in the USA.
We DONT have a gun problem ...We have an IDIOT problem. Both with the idiots who use guns to hurt others and idiots who think that new legislation would change anything!
It is not the gun problem it is the gun control people they maybe staged this stuff.. Is there no other way to get the gun problem taken care of if they use the laws inplace and stop blaming the law abiding people who have guns?? I wonder how many of the gun conrtol people have weapons in their house..Let us know with a post if you have a pair''...
Taking away guns will only remove them from law abiding citizens, not from criminals hell bent on mass murder.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people... (and not just any people but mostly the mentally unfit to own a gun).
I'm almost willing to bet that this guy didn't have a CHL. If he did maybe they should tighten up the CHL owners background checks and stop handing them out unless they can legitimately pass tests to get certified (I did a group certification and I can't tell you how many they just put through the training class because they couldn't pass the end exam). There's a reason why the CHL exists, it's no fault of the gun's if the owner didn't have the proper training or had a lousy instructor just hand them the CHL.
Don't be ignorant. A raging hate filled gun didn't hop its way into the Sikh and start shooting people. A stupid hate filled human did.
Would you be saying the same thing if this bastard had planted bombs at the temple like the Colorado jackass did for his own apartment?
(2010%E2%80%932011)
The media needs to stop giving so much damn attention to these psychotic freaks - now we're all inspiring them to go down the wrong way in history. That's exactly what the Norway freak wanted.
Outlaw guns and only Obama and the New Black Panthers will have them.
Feel safer knowing that?
I wonder why Candidate Obama wanted a National Police force equally as equipped as the military?
You got that correct !!!!!
The bad things is that they are Sikhs. Pretty much blows holes through the gun nut argument that things like this wouldn't happen if everyone was armed. Every Sikh adult male is always armed. It is a key part of their religion. Sikhs are even allowed to be armed on flights because it is such an important part of their religion.
And Sikhs are NOT Mslims --- they are a separate religion that is a kind of blend of Buddhism and Hinduism. (Don't take that for theology --- appearances only.)
Time to start outlawing people...after all, it was the PERSON who highjacked the gun and forced it to shoot other people...
Anti citizen one and others there is a solution and it isn't gun control. It is crazy people control. If you want to do mass murder, have sex with children, rape women, etc. you are crazy and EVEN if you haven't committed mass murder the fact that you have expressed it should be enough to warrent an eval with a 72 hr hold. If you are tested and considered a potential danger you are held indefinately until your med's start working. If med's don't work then you stay locked up.
We are approaching this issue from the wrong direction. Even in prison up to 50% of those in prison have a serious and dangerous mental health disease. If you want violence to stop start locking up those who say violence is an answer. Then no gun control laws will be necessary. Therefore no NRA necessary.
Jim you and Industrial strength are true bigots! You must be talking about that new group that Faux News and Rush limbaugh made up who really were only a few people standing around dressed up. You righites never cease to amaze me with your bs defending idiots like Zimmerman and defending scumbags in the Tea party who are really the new Nazi party!
@Suzanne,
It was neither a raging hate-filled gun nor a raging hate-filled human. It was a raging hate-filled human with a gun. It take two ingredients and pretending that only one is involved is a false argument. This is a great example of how the gun nut arguments fall apart when examined.
All adult male Sikhs are ARMED all the time, every day. Always. Especially at Temple. This is because it is a key part of their religion, so much so that they are allowed to be armed on flights by the TSA. And the reputations of Sikhs is that of a heritage of the most fierce warriors on the planet --- ever.
Do you honestly thing that a raging hate-filled man without a gun would havbe had any success with a bunch of armed people? Maybe he wouldn't have tried at all? In order to avoid becoming mincemeat?
I wonder why Candidate Obama wanted a National Police force equally as equipped as the military
go stick your head further up your beep
@Cris-749391: Where do you get your information - Rush limpwrist? NO ONE accept Federal Law Enforcement Officers can carry a gun on an airplane. Male Sikhs occasionally carry a ceremonial knife - not much use against a gunman.
Why is it always the white guys??????
Americans are going to need a national police force as well equipped as the military if this sort of thing keeps happening. We seem to be awash in terrorists targeting innocent people. How would the "New Black Panthers," however many people there are in this organization, have them if no one else did? Would these antii-government white militia turds also still have them?
i dont blame the law abiding people who covet their guns and scream freedom at stake, etc etc. but i do blame these same people who should be able to divert this awful direction that this "freedom" has now taken all of us to. have some sense of responsibility and go after your own nra and demand some common sense changes in direction for this country.
HOW DARE YOU SIR
guns were clearly made for planting flowers and singing peaceful love songs all thru the night..
NOT MAKING KILLING QUICKER AND EASIER.. i mean, by your post youd think guns were made specifically for killing things and nothing else!!
oh wait...
Chris--you are so smart. I think I'm falling in love with you:)
Jim...It's always going to BE the white guys...they believe the color of their skin is an entitlement to their rage at anyone who doesn't fit their picture of what this country "must" be. How many men in this country today refuse to listen to reason? How many even bother to try?
Sorry, but the world of males I've lived in has a natural born instinct to go deaf the minute it's something they don't want to hear. Normal rational human beings know the value of reasoning things out with each other in a constructive manner.
Some men just don't care...they just want their way or no way. Remember? "My way or the highway?" In a country with over 200 million people, it cannot be "your way or the highway." That premise omits the rights of others to exist in a cooperative, ordered society.
Chris-749391: Misinformation. The kirpan is a knife. It's a traditional object. Sikhs don't carry guns.
White Males doing all the shootings in lets say Chicago?
roc...We are discussing mass murders. Why do you bring up Chicago specifically? How many mass murderers are there in Chicago who killed 12 people and injure 52 others? Nice try at making more excuses for your gender.
How about drop the violence and focus instead on peace?
Industrial Strength Comment collapsed by the community
Outlaw guns and only Obama and the New Black Panthers will have them.
Feel safer knowing that?
I wonder why Candidate Obama wanted a National Police force equally as equipped as the military?
***************************************************
Racist eff....
WE ALREADY DO HAVE A NATIONAL POLICE FORCE...ITS CALLED THE NATIONAL GUARD
ewent..
I am a white guy and I listen. There does need to be gun legislation and by the way, I do own a pile of them
@EWENT- Kiss my white ass
USMC28
___________________________________________________________________________________
Just want you to know my grandson is a proud Marine and he thinks you are only posing as a Marine and put out a lot of B.S.
Again thoughts and prayers to all in this horrible tragedy. Hope for peace and love to come back....
mike.. GROW UP!
Count this as another white guy with a stack of guns who's for more gun control. It's about time we require a mental evaluation before you can purchase a gun, and only purchase from authorized dealers. You must prove sanity, responsibility and tolerance of others.automatic 10 year prison for even possessing a firearm illegally, automatic life for using it in the commission of a crime. It won't solve everything, but it can help stop some. If you don't think one possible saved life is worth the hassle, you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.
Holy crap Matt...There is another of me out there. I feel like I just found life on another planet. Good job!
Race has nothing to do with histories biggest mass murderers. Politicians do.
The short list:
Get the picture...
Oh, Wait! The other thing these megalomaniacs had in common was their love of "Gun Control."
GO FIGURE!
Comment # 4 restored for clarity.
USMC28, TFO-killswitch, you are both suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
A Sikh is no where near a muslim dumbass.
I would want a Sikh fighting next to me when we inevitably have to go to war against Islam.
My guess is the dumb SH_T thought they were Islamic.
knowing the media they probably have the facts wrong, as usual.
absolutley correct american patriot. the biggest problem is the acceptance of more and more of people that look like they may be muslims into this country without any research done by the perpetrator. the bottom line is the government is somewhat responsible for this happening. their are many muslim extrememists in this country now.i believe more and more of this type of thing will happen as time goes on.
I agree with everyone who says that it's not gun control that we need, but rather people control. My solution... First off, they need better accountability with the purchase of guns and ammunition. The license registration system needs to be nationwide, and all gun shops should have access to check the activity of a person with a license. A person who buys a certain amount of guns and/or ammunition within a 30-day period should be the target of investigation and suspicion. Secondly, tighter grips on ammunition should be practiced. A gun is useless (well, for the most part) without ammunition. Ammunition, however can be used in another gun or another way. Back in the 60s, when gasoline was becoming scarce, they didn't ration how much people could drive. They rationed how much gas they could buy and on which days they could buy it. The most important thing we need is human accountability. People need to be kept accountable for what they do and how they do it. The moron in Colorado planned out his attack and prepared for months. That's not grounds for insanity. He was also a Ph. D. candidate. How can that leave the door open for him to claim incompetence to a trial? Man up!! If a person is coherent to walk into a public place, aim a gun at another human being, and pull the trigger, they are not insane or incompetent.
Agree. The people who hate and fear Muslims probably know very little about who they are. And they probably don't hate Muslims only but also any foreign dark-skinned group that is not Christian. Michelle Bachman, enjoy your $1 million.
Please note Sikhs are not against muslims or any religion per se.
I disagree with your version of sanity. I also don't think insanity can be a defense to avoid incarceration or the death penalty for the rest of their lives. What I do know is that if people really understood mental illness and we could lock those up who have confused free speech and the 2nd amendement with the right to be crazy were locked up alot of the violence would go away. We screen students for a whole bunch of things medically why not screen them for mental illness and get them treatment. If someone expresses a need to kill anyone because they don't agree with them they get put on a 72 hr hold and get evaluated. This would mean that if they are found with guns they can be prosecuted.
Now even if you believe that someone has the capability and is a real threat you can't even report them because of their free speech rights - it isn't free speech it is the ranting of a crazy person. If you have an anger management issue and you don't get it under control you can't have a gun because you are crazy.
What the HELL, why all these mass shootings are happening.? Did We manufacture the huge lot of arms, and exported TERRORISM to whole of the world for this day that these are being used at home.???
Can anything good be accomplished by such an act? This was terrorism plain and simple. Sincerest condolences to those who lost friends and loved ones.
It's terrorism only if the shooter is muslim. says a lot about US society and stereotypes doesn't it ?
When it comes to religion all you can say is
Don't hate the player, Hate the game !
PJ-1795048, you are misinformed about the belief system of Sikhism. Sikhism, in fact, is a monotheistic religion and does not believe in any Hindu Gods. Sikhs are NOT allowed to marry outside of their religion and Sikhs believe in equality regardless of gender or race. Sikhism is a distinct religion, separate from both Hinduism and Islam. Sikhs have fully supported and advocated freedom of religion and as a matter of fact, the Ninth Guru, Guru Teg Bahadur, sacrificed his life to protect the Hindus from being forcefully converted to Islam.
Sikhs have been a common target of violence and hate crimes since 9/11. Yes, there are some OUTWARD appearances similarities between Sikhs and Muslims but Sikhs wear turbans and keep their hair unshorn for identity purposes; that was decided by the Tenth Guru, Guru Gobind Singh, in 1699. A Sikh can be pointed in a crowd of millions because of his/her identity and Sikhs always stand up for equal rights for everyone, regardless of where others come from.
Let's hope we don't need more tragic incidents, like this one, to learn the differences between Sikhs and Muslims.
I'll just let you go to war against Islam. I'm going to sit down and have a beer instead.
Swan37,
you mind if I join you for that beer, and then watch the nut-jobs blow themselves up? I'll bring some pop-corn.
Make that three of us....so far.
There are at least a billion non-crazy muslim, many of which are just at afraid of the radicals as everyone else.
Vikramjit Singh--"It's terrorism only if the shooter is muslim. says a lot about US society and stereotypes doesn't it?"
I think it says more about your stereotypes. Or your reading comprehension.
"We're treating this as a domestic terrorist-type incident," Oak Creek Police Chief John Edwards said at a late afternoon press conference. He did not elaborate.
Typical ignorant xenophobe.
Thinks he knows enough about Islam to go on what he thinks is a righteous killing rampage, yet can't even differentiate between Sikhs and Muslims. Apparently, the sign on the front of the building still wasn't enough of a clue. Just more evidence that bigotry and acute stupidity go hand-in-hand.
tom2222. So the shooter should have researched better before he started killing people?
Fox fueled hatred.
@AKaur - Hinduism is a collection of religions which include people from various religions (mono or NOT) aethists. In fact Hinduism includes people who do not believe in God as well. Sikkhism, buddhism and jainism were all founded as a protest against vedic tyranny against masses. They were all founded by warrior classes/kings. In the passage of time they all came to coexist with vedic religion and with each other and the result is what we call Hinduism today.
Okay once again PJ-1795048 you are totally wrong
1 Sikhism was not founded to protest against vedic tyranny but the tyranny of the Mughal rule against Hindus.
Sikhism was not to protest Hinduism but rather protect it from the forceful conversions into Islam. That is why Sikhism has a belife that no one should be forced to believe in a specific religion through force but it should rather be through choice.
Again there is a pattern in your responses YOUR WRONG
again im pretty sure your not SIKH so dont post anything you don't know about
P.S. IM SIKH so you really can't tell me that I'm wrong or your a really ignorant b@st@rd
one more thing Sikhism was not founded by warrior classes/ kings but rather Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Sikhism is and was a very peaceful religion
if you dont know don't say it
While it is true that Sikhism was founded By Guru Nanak as a reformist religion in the 15th century.
The visible Khalsa sikhs with the turbans and beards are a warrior class founded by the tenth Sikh Guru , Gobind Singh.
The hateful and illiterate who can't tell the difference between a Hindu, Arab, Turk, Persian, Muslim or Pakistani are alive and as evil as ever. As shame that our country was founded on religious freedom and diversity and these types go after anybody that's no the typical WASP. If you're Gay and a WASP, they'll get you too. It's disgraceful to see the rest of the world moving towards equality and our society is going back to the Salem Witch hunts.
Totally agree. Very sad what some of the USA society is becoming.
Vote progressive!
Just read the comment directly below to see your point illustrated.
Hinduism and Islam are religions. Turk and Persian are ethnic groups. Pakistani is a nationality. They can overlap, but you will seldom find any that are Sikh, also a religion. Looks like you need to educate yourself before you go condemning others
Add in the Self-Righteous and so-called "Christians" who believe there's a war on their freedom of religion, all the while waging a war all their own against the rest of us to force us to believe as they do or, at least, to be legislated the way they see fit, and you have what I like to call: Homegrown Theocratic Christ-Insanity Terrorists. They're free to do as they please because, you know, they own the red phone to God. The rest of us are wholly disposable and incapable of governing ourselves and/or making decisions about our own lives, bodies and spirituality. Is it any wonder their numbers are in decline while they wax poetic about how great they art?
The only problem with your statement is that "the rest of the world" is not moving toward equality. Ask any woman in Afghanistan, non muslims in the middle east and north Africa, Uyghurs in China, etc...the list goes on and on. Pull your idealist head out of the sand. "The rest of the world" is no better than the USA. If you think it is, you are free to move there.
You sound like you are the one conducting witch hunts. There are evil people everywhere, not just the US. Even scarier, there are mentally deranged people everywhere as well.
When did Sharia Law become about equality?
Sounds like there is some subjective fact evasion going on.
When was the last time you heard about anyone floating on a door to get to Cuba?
Think Wise: Sikhs are typically Indian and, with the possible exception of Hindus (different religion, same nationality), they have nothing to do with any of the other groups you mentioned.
Think Wise...Now ask yourself why all of sudden this intolerance of others in this country is now at fever pitch. Was this same intolerance alive and breeding such hatefulness and violence before 9/11? These insane individuals lack the ability to be tolerant human beings. As soon as their neuroses takes over, they believe they have rights that really don't exist without the heavy burden of responsibility attached to those rights.
I am absolutely appalled at this grotesque breed who are salivating over a Civil War in this country, promote anarchy and all for what? To get their way. Whether their way is right or wrong...they just don't care.
We went from a generation in the 1960's who stood shoulder to shoulder with fellow Americans to fight for Civil Rights to a new breed of hateful thugs so willing to destroy the peace and order in our country. WE cannot and must not allow them to degenerate our nation for the sake of future generations.
ewent - I don't agree with you regarding standing shoulder to shoulder for civil rights. The crazies you see now are the same that fought aggressively against civil rights down to passing out axe handles to use against blacks in the capital.
waukone...You are wrong. In the 1960's, many white Americans joined Civil Rights protest marches because we knew it was wrong to allow the KKK and other bigots to treat our fellow Americans like second class citizen merely because of the color of their skin. The crazies today are not 60 year olds who protested FOR Civil Rights. Admit it. It's a younger generation out of control.
Those 60-somethings now have grandchildren. The only people who EVER passed out axe handles were bigots of the worst evil breed. And I find it strange that the KKK was ended completely in shame, disgust, revulsion and scandal when the then KKK chieftain was charged with savage cannabalism, rape of a minor and fraud.
No one who is a 60-something will ever forget what happened on that OH campus...when their own government shot college students to death for protesting for Civil Rights. There is NO comparison to that and the self-appointed militia bullies out there in the woods practicing for the Civil War they are praying they will get to ignite.
And we have the REPUBLICANS to THANK for that!
ewent - I lived in the south during those years and being over 60 I remember it well. Many more white people in the south didn't want blacks to have civil rights. In 1958 4% felt that blacks and white could marry - all southern states had it as illegal. Most felt that they should vote (poll tax/tests only given to blacks), blacks were still being regularly killed for being uppity.
It was bad and in some area's it is still bad. Hang out in a southern rural area and it will be very obvious.
ewent, I'm going to guess you weren't round in the 60's. You didn't see the fire hoses, police clubs and dogs turned loose on peaceful protesters. Even a majority of those whites who favored civil rights did not stand "shoulder to shoulder" with blacks.
As I look back on the 60's now, I realize just how close we came to a modern civil war and the total destruction of our nation. If it weren't for Dr. King and his peaceful protests, we never would have survived.
We have come a long way since the 60's but, things (race relations, acceptance, and understanding) still have a ways to go. There are still way too many of us who paint entire groups with the broad brush of hatred due to the violent actions of a violent minority.
Please, do not ever believe that the 60's were the good old days of civil rights support! Believe me, I was there and they weren't.
wow to much curry in the sauce , it'll do it ever time , hope the cop is alright, you know with walker taking is health care coverage away and everything
So, Scooter, when will you start a national movement to abolish the Republican Party and similar thinking Americans?
All those that have forgotten history the KKK was a democratic movement in the 1860s, Honest Abe was a republican. Most of the south voted democrat during the days of "jim crowe laws". The GOP is for smaller government, they think like Clinton that welfare is out of control. The dems are going to spend this country into a third world country.
Finally some truthful comments!
Frank Funny now its the Repubs/Teas that act like Klansman. How the two have switched roles...BTW
Clinton is a Dem, in case you forgot. Bush is a Rep. Mitt is a Teabagger and your leader Rush , Norton, John Bohner et all are Blow hards and liars. Like living in la la land..don'tcha? You betcha!
Of course i know Clinton is a dem but he seen the writing on the wall and did welfare reform. The democrats are the leaches on America. They will ruin the economy if not stopped. I have moved most of my money out of America, if Obummer wins in November i'll leave America.
"if Obummer wins in November i'll leave America."
Oh wow, Franks--is that a threat or a promise?
Maybe the campaign should amend their slogan to "Forward--and no Franks"!
Talk about luring people to the polls!
Asknrecieve: That is the most racist statement I have heard yet! Since when did this become christians fault?
Why is it that whenever an atheist or an agnostic( one step above atheism) it is somehow christian's fault?This gunmen probably listened to your stereotypical garbage about how evil religion is and decided to retaliate against it.
In which case, people like you like to screw up others. When was the last time you heard christians going into a crowded building to shoot? Not someone who labels themselves as agnostic or "spiritual"? Because as you know, that is just another name for "homemade" religion crap and really means nothing.
Since when did "Christian" become a race? Yours is the most idiotic comment I've read to date, Unhappy. Try again and do read the comments prior to mine in order to understand context.
Frank: Southern Strategy, Dixiecrats, and the CRA '64 - read about them.
Franks. Why are the wingers so obsessed with the possibility that maybe some of the poor are getting more benefits from the government than they deserve when the one-percenters, multinationals and crony capitalists are stealing billions of dollars from us with bribery, influence peddling and sweet-heart deals? On top of that is their arrogant condescending attitude toward the suckers and chumps that actually do the work and create the wealth.
Comment # 7 deleted for death wishing. robert jackson-1152912 banned.
Comment # 8 deleted, derail.
We can only pray and hope that they are okay. I have heard Sikh practicioners concrned that they get mistaken for being Muslim. Not sure if this is the case, but I do wonder. Could be anything at this time.
It looks like it was a case of mistaken identity, and the shooters thought they were Muslim...
Yep, appears he shot the wrong ragheads.
Minuteman81, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
Don't make racist remarks.
uthinkuno banned for death wishing.
uthinkuno-version2 banned, re-reg of recently banned uthinkuno.
Another white terrorist. When are we gonna start treating THEM like the other terrorists in the world?????
We can't, because they're usually American citizens so they have constitutional rights. Foreign terrorists and enemy combatants don't.
Hey, guess what, GAdude, those foreign terrorists and enemy combatants are protected by our Constitution if they are being held by our government under our laws. Not as fully as they once were thanks to the previous administration and genuinely unbelievable legal contortions by the Supremes, and shamefully continued almost completely by the current administration, but nonetheless they are still protected.
CindyJW...When Pearl Harbor was attacked, as I'm sure you are aware, thousands of Japanese-American citizens were interred in prisoner of war camps right here in the US. My point is that reaction to a senseless terror threat like 9/11 often breeds fear and retaliation that regurgitates itself into loss of freedom.
One day at a time midnightman. First we have to kill off the liberal Marxist who support domestic terrorism so they can, "feel good about them selves."
Sail Naked...The same breed who believes they have a right to kill others. Do any of them possess any human instinct for shame? Or is that bravado all there is to exist on.
We feel good about ourselves as opposed to what? Your hateful brand of feeling hateful about yourself?
Ever notice how nearly all of these mass murderers hate themselves more than they hate those they kill?
GA Dude & Cindy, you are both waaay wrong. Actually, since the recent passage of NDAA even US Citizens can be drug off to GITMO if they are believed to be terrorists and can be held without charges or legal council Indefinitely. So in all actuality, it is the opposite, not even US citizens are safe or protected under the constitution if suspected of being a terrorist. I guess Fox non news failed to cover that.
"Obama’s use of signing statements has clearly shown his willingness to continue the George W. Bush legacy– not only of torture and illegal detainment, but in the dangerous trend of de facto rule by “executive fiat.” Worse, such signing statements put in place a precedent for future presidents to follow– or expand upon. -
I feel horrible - I just accidentally "liked" Sail Naked's comment when I was trying to report it!
Are you referring to a specific "liberal Marxist" or all of them, Naked? One way or the other, it's not the wisest thing to use a public forum to threaten murder.
Sail naked - The human pretzel - going by his twisted reasoning ....
If it wasn't for all that hatred by the far right ,this bullsh-t wouldn't of happen......PERIOD!!
Comments # 12 and # 13 deleted, derails.
Sail Naked banned for death wishing the POTUS.
Reported to authorities.
shame
Guess he thought they were muslims
ignorant fools who do not see GOD in every person usually do irrational things like this. his bad that he was not given a chance to repent. no matter what your religion, see others as human beings and not your enemies. Let GOD be the judge cause he has reasons for sending us where we belong
Exactly. He sees people who wear turbans and look different from him and thinks they must be Muslims - and everyone has given Muslims such a bad name, he probably thought he was being a patriot. All the hatred in our country right now is bound to explode into incidents like this.
Again, Sikhs are not muslim or islamic.
Get an education.
Another copy-cat, anti-social idiot with nothing to lose.
A copy cat, but only if we say it is a copy cat like the Ronald McDonald shooter,... ie. government mind-control stooge as patsy for government operation aimed at easing gun control legislation.
Yes, in those terms (only) is it a copy cat...
yep, that tin-foil hat of yours is way too tight
One always thinks that these kind of things couldn't happen in their state.
Time and time again, we're proven wrong.
Hearts go out to everyone involved.
I join you in expressing my sincerest sympathy for the victims and admiration for the great Police Officer. one can see how little the self-proclaimed anti-gun libs care about their followmen. They are trying to use this tragedy to rile on the Teaparty and everyone else who does not agree wth them. Despiccable people !
While it is true that these mass murder are mainy brought about through the ignorance, which is clearly displayed on this board, it also painfully clear that a restriction on arms sales will not prevent these tragedies from happening. Europe has very tight gun laws and they, too, have their mass murderers. If it is not a gun, it is a hammer or a bomb.
What is to be done ? First and foremost, we have to keep guns out of the hands of distrubed , sick minds. i have no idea about how to do this.
Again, my apologies and deep regrets to the Sikh community around the world.
One thing we have to do is get rid of that weak and totally rotten straw man: people can kill with a knife, a baseball bat, bomb, or breathing on you???? Let me ask, how many mass murders have the United States of America experienced of late with anything but a gun???? I'm not a rocket scientist, but is able to reason, sometimes!! Now if I see a majority of mass murders committed with a gun, I am not foolish enough to think the mass murders I'm witnessing is caused by a car. I can too deduct that the weapon of choice seems to be a gun. I have enough experience to know that most car deaths are because of an accident. I am just as smart to realize that when some nut with a gun steps into a public place and open fire with said gun, this is no accident. So, my final rationale leads me to realize we have a gun problem and not a baseball bat problem. So let the old straw man die a sudden death!! Peace and love!
Sikhs would come into my place of work 30 years ago to shop, down in Milwaukee, wearing turbins and donning beards. They're alright, no harm to anyone. But an ignoramus could mistake them for Muslim, I suppose, but even then? Is that what happened or is it some dispute in their own community?
Comment # 20 deleted, derail.
Why can't we just respect each others religion or non-religion, but its not going to happen with so many uneducated people around. Too much hatred too.
catherine- you are right. best post yet. to each his own and everyone should respect everyones own will. That is really the way of this lost America.
A lot of good things have become lost in America!
AGAIN - we can THANK the REPUBS for ALL the hatred & bigotry here!
Gotta love people who live in their own world....strangely, the people who commit these senseless acts of murder also do the same.
To answer your question Catherine, Islam will never accept any other religion but their own, their belief system is such that they, according to Allah and his messenger, cannot accept any other religion.
That they kill within their own master religion, because one sect doesn't like the way another sect believes, is what is expected of them. Their obligation to Allah is to destroy the un-believers and nothing less.
Those five daily prayers that a required of 'true Muslims' begin with the obligatory 'I testify that there is no god except Allah and I testify that Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.' and, that they are required to repeat this at least five times a day, every day it becomes very easy for us to understand why they cannot accept any other's beliefs.
While the rest of us might get along, it isn't going to happen with Islam and the west.
So, Scooter, when will you start a national movement to abolish the Republican Party and similar thinking Americans?
Much the same could be said for Christians.
The Protestants and Catholics in Ireland did their best to blow each other up. It's not exclusive to the Islamic faith. We as a species need to stop looking at others with hatred because they call their God by a different name.
It's what you do that matters, not whose Name you do it in.
Only the extremists believe that everyone is an infidel; most Muslims believe this to be their 'Golden Rule' (Quran, chapter 5, verse 48, the Sahih International Translation:)
"And We have revealed to you, [O Muúammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth.To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."
If that's a little obscure for you, try this interpretation (Mohammed Sarwar:)
We have revealed the Book to you (Muhammad) in all Truth. It confirms the (original) Bible and has the authority to preserve or abrogate what the Bible contains. Judge among them by what God has revealed to you and do not follow their desires instead of the Truth which has come to you. We have given a law and a way of life to each of you. Had God wanted, He could have made you into one nation, but He wanted to see who are the more pious ones among you. Compete with each other in righteousness. All of you will return to God who will tell you the truth in the matter of your differences.
In other words, live a clean life, do good deeds and let Allah judge you when you get to heaven. Allah/God could have made all of you into the same nation, the same religion, but he didn't because he wants to see who will do the best 'Compete with each other in righteousness.' The Qu'ran is quite firm on this; God made different religions on purpose, and it's not for you to judge, but God's when you get to see him, and he'll tell you the truth.
Oh, and nowhere in the Qu'ran does it promise a martyr will get 72 virgins.
The extremist, fundamentalist Islamic movement began in the desert areas of the Middle East, where in countries like Afghanistan, only 30 percent of the people can even read their own language. Thus they depend on their imam/priest/holy leader to tell them what their Holy Book says, and those preists, wanting to keep the blind faith in their followers going, will tell them anything just to keep them in line and retain power over them. It's why none of the people going to American mosques are coming out with a desire to murder people. We have had Muslims in our country for all 200+ years of our nations histiry, and when the attack occurred, it came from without, not within.
Another mass shooting another man dressed in tactical gear...Stop allowing the cowards to buy tactical gear....no civilian should be allowed to have it period! Its a simple way to stop these nut jobs from thinking they are invincible. It won't solve the problem altogether but will help.
Uh...Sikhs are NOT Islamic. In fact, Sikhs are frequently victimized by Muslims in various parts of the world.
MSN: "Sikhs don't practice the same religion as Muslims, but their long beards and turbans often cause them to be mistaken for Muslims, advocates say."
...because guns don't kill people, trousers kill people?
Do something about the actual weapons involved and don't worry about the fashion statement.
Tim, its quite apparent that these nut jobs seem to think what they wear gives them some sorta super powers or they wouldn't be wearing them. The gun (s) aren't the problem and Ill be damned if they take mine away. You don't hear or read of these problems back in the old days when every person was packing a gun on their hip.
Amanda, the quote you gave, I know exactly how my co workers would have interpreted it - the exact opposite of what you take it to mean. That they were meant to Judge others based on the truth that has been revealed to them. That we were meant to be one people, one religion. They are being tested to see if they are worthy.
How far back into the old days do you want to go? Ever hear of gun fighters and gun fights? How about the shoot out at the Ok Corral? Every body having a gun is not the solution, just more body bags. After the first mass shooting at Virginia State, they approved everyone for carry. Guess what???? They had another mass shooting and the carriers did not stop it!!! The only way to stop it is control the thing that's causing the problem. Notice I said CONTROL!!! Too many people equate controlling with banning!!! They are not the same.
My prayers go out to the families of this horrific event. We are all equal.
Really ... You're going to compare the OK Corral gun fight to nut jobs that shoot up a church, movie theater and schools? Not sure if that works. At least both sides had guns. These people were not outlaws either (like at the OK Corral) just normal everyday peaceful people. I don't ever recall reading in history of people getting shot up for NO REASON at all back when EVERYONE had a gun on their hip, if I'm wrong please feel free to post the link to the story. If you read my post 21.9 I am all about control even down to tactical gear that should not be allowed to be sold to the public at all. That seems to be the first sign that a civilian is up to no good in just about every case of a mass shootings and large scale bank heist.
A muslim commits a terrorist act and we take away all muslim rights, a black man commits a crime and we punish all blacks, but a white man commits a mass murder and we give them more guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah? What's your point? ROFLMAO
Where do Muslims have less rights? I have many black friends and not is being punished, your hate filled rhetoric is exactly what feeds the hatred.
Name me one murderer who has been given more guns after their crime, any race or religion... i'm waiting?
Zimmerman shot and killed a 17 year old and the police gave him his gun back and sent him home.
midnightman.......Are your eyes brown? If so, it is because you are so full of $hit. No doubt about it.
Just like I thought most of you fools missed the point, and yeah my eyes are brown just like these nuts
Deb
Zim didn't murder anyone.
I missed the part where the police gave him his gun back.
@debdem --- Zimmerman was using his weapon in accordance with the law and in self defense......the rest will come out in court ---- in spite if the racist blacks who characterize the violent aggressor and probable burglar as a 17 year eating skittels and mindng his own business. Tf that were the fact- why was he BASHING Zimmermans head in the pavement and breaking his nose? Is that the roper response to a concerned neighbor who is asking about your presence because you are NOT from that neighborhood? I have had the EXACT same experience while riding my bike in a new neighborhood in a gated community in Florida and checking out a new home under construction. A neighbor came out - confronted me - and I explained - NO PROBLEMS. I did not punch him in the face and try to kill him by bashing his head in the concrete!
Piloti.. Exactly the same experience I had in Utah visiting my sister in a gated community. I was actually stopped and questioned 3 times by the inhabitants on who I was and why I was there. I never run, I answered their questions and they welcomed me to the neighborhood. By the way Deb, the gun was taken from Zim as soon as the police arrived and was never given back to him.
As Forest Gump might say "stupid is as stupid says" or types on the internet.
ahhhh, ok, your sarcasm escaped me, please dis-regard my other inflammatory comment.
I think perhaps midnightman has been misinformed.
K Truant, your second question,
"Name me one murderer who has been given more guns after their crime, any race or religion... i'm waiting?"
Just look at the daily news, We all know that it is, just 'a few radical Islamic militants that murder hundreds of people, per day, around the world in the lands they intend to control, and they continue to be given more weapons and more ammunition by their most exalted leaders of that religion. I don't believe it would be difficult for you to begin compiling a list of names. So, there are exceptions.
Ordinarily though, this would not be a common occurrence in the United States... I'm just sayin!
Pilot maybe you should get your facts straight, when asked Zimmerman said he never identified himself and never talked to Trayvon. He followed him, now I ask you if someone was following you at night and you didnt know who he was and you werent doing anything wrong wouldnt you defend yourself? Or would you just run away?
A whiny,ignorant, racist, yahoo who reacted to the slur "towelhead", not knowing the difference between them - the Sikhs, and the Muslims he really hates. Makes me ashamed to be a white male in this country sometimes. When they cathc this douchebag I can't wait to see his expression when someone explains that to him - although I would expect that expression to be very dull.
I would think that all the idiots OF ALL COLORS would just make you ashamed to be an American -- whatever one of those is or looks like.
Now, if we could just round up all these idiots of any shape, color or creed, and exile them to their own island where they can treat each other in the way they want to treat each other.
To us it would be heaven here, to them it would be the hell of their own making.
I'd just be ashamed to post generalizations as stupid as yours, Paul.
Anything intelligent to say?
timmer
You can't change your race, but you can change countries.
I'm no expert on the subject, but when I look at a Sikh's turban, it's pretty obvious to me that it looks nothing like the head garb a Muslim wears.
mike--are you sure you are not a (white) towelhead???
Apparently Mike N didn't read the article because if he had he would know the shooter was killed.
Ummm, yeah, it's dull alright. Third paragraph...
I'm grateful to be a white male in this country. It makes life a lot easier.
Hey Kai,you stupid dull internet flaming prick...the copy on my browser didn't include that detail, like a lot of breaking stories, but feel free to jump in and be a flaming @!$%# on the internet, because you have nothing else to offer.
Real class act, Mike. I almost pity you...almost.
So I guess you don't like getting flamed, eh, Kai? Neither do I. So think about it the next time you want to just snark at somebody.
oldgringo-3942199 and Mike N-366459, you are both suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Why not suspend Kai? It was an off-topic insult and started the whole thing.
Condolences to the families of the deceased, evil comes in all shapes and colors and the resulting losses are the same for all families.
Well said.
Well said.
"evil" ............... no need to look into it further ? it's just "evil" , case closed.
I think gun laws could help reduce these incidents. Many individuals will not act on their thoughts if it is not practical for them. Today they go get a gun and do it. This can be prevented, or reduced if guns are harder to get. Only organized gangs and the like may be able to get guns, not deranged individuals.
Yeah, let's introduce MORE gun laws, so the perps can violate them, also. (Dumb f*ck)
@Mikem2
Is your post meant to be a joke or are you "challenged" in everyday life to rational, intelligent thought. You want Organized Gangs to have easier access to firearms than deranged individuals?
@Daniel'#24.19: First of all, my sincere condolences to the family of victims. Secondly @Daniel, it does not say the shooter was 'caucasian'. He is described as a 'white male', therefore he could be from a number of ethnic backgrounds. ie: The United States recognizes Arabs as being white etc. I suggest you do your research on the subject. Also, it amazes me that so many people are jumping to the conclusion that the shooter must be a Christian based solely on his description. (Shaking my head is dismay!)
@DavidN.-246637
Hey David what do YOU think "Caucasian" means, a "Green Male"? White Male = Caucasian. Invest in a dictionary. Shaking my head in dismay, that there are those that are still illiterate, yet think they know of what they speak.
Why are they holding back the identity of the shooter?
The police said he was a white male, not an Arabic male.
Chances are strong that he could be a deranged fundamentalist Christian whose mind is stuck in the modern version of the Crusades. Why in the hell did mankind ever start with religions..boogeymen...spirits and all assorted bullshyyyt??
@DavidN.-246637
Noun 1. Caucasian race - a light-skinned race Caucasoid race , White people , White race race - people who are believed to belong to the same genetic stock;
This is not intended to be an indictment of White People, I am a White Male. Just an attempt at accuracy and information for the misinformed.
Great response! Does it really matter the race/ethnicity of the individual? The shooter was obviously deranged and full of evil to do something like this. I pray for the victims and their families. We have terrorist among us that are our next door neighbors and we don't even realize it until something tragic like this happens.
We are evil country, just relax the gun control laws further, so every crock pot have access to firearms.
it's a shame that one person wants to be so judge and jury this is not what americas is about it's called freedom toleration and fairness i fill sorry for those family's who lost loved ones
Comment # 24 deleted, derail.
@Daniel #25.11: Then tell that to the Americans, who BTW have classified ''white' to include many ethnic groups. Stupid isn't it, but typical of an American like yourself, and as stated before he was only described as a 'white male'. No mention of Caucasian like you insinuate. That was my point!
Namaste and hello,
This tradition these souls are from, have honorable tradition of dying to protect others freedom of religion. Meaning those from traditions that would condemn them. Some of the saints within this tradition, their stories in this regard are so inspiring.
Perhaps here in West, we need to quit squabbling regarding guns as there are a myriad of issues and go to the core. We blush regarding somethings and celebrate violence. Not all, but as culture we sure do. We, via entertainment media that we are huge consumers of, complicitly support what leads one to objectify what we call, another. To desentisize a being to anothers personhood if you will. This manifests itself in many ways, one of which as what is witnessed via these comments shown here.
Regardless, to those who suffered so much through this violence, my heartfelt prayers go out to you.
Jai Jai Hanuman, please lead us out of ignorance.
Om Namah Shivaya.
Friend From the West
Tragic! folks think they are in a safe place, a religious temple & their lives are changed forever!
My thoughts and prayers go out to the Sikh community. Honestly grwoing up I thought men with turbins on their heads were middle eastern, I didn't know they were from India ( region) . I grew up in the mid-west , I was a white girl from a middle class family. I had no idea about Sikh religion and culture. Finally my ignorance was abolished when I went to college and my roommate was Sikh.
I found the Sikh community wonderfully embracing and kind. They are firm believers in education ( and have a long history of educating women--when other cultures surrounding them often didn't) My roommate would jokingly scold me for studying on the floor "Don't you realize how much time and energy went into creating that text book---get it off the floor !", she would say. All the Sikh I know were well educated, throughtful and kind (and vegetarians) I also later learned that Sikh are one of the largest financial donors to the poor throughout the world.
I have one more favorite story about a friend that was Sikh. I ran into an old friend that I worked in research with and gave him a big mid western hug and his sister who was visiting let me know that married Sikh men don't hug other women . He said "its okay--we're in America now and I am an American ,,,,,you all hug so now i do too!" --and he gave me a big hug right back. i have never met a group of people that are more than willing to adjust to American culture. I am so sorry this happened to the Sikh community. Much love and blessing across the miles
Well said Kallie
Maby your story will enlighten come of the red-neck haters on here.
So what's your point? Could you elaborate a little more. I got lost at: Honestly grwoing.
Classy, foe. Really, what was your point in making sure you commented on a simple typo? Yes, I would say you are lost since all you got out of that post was that one typo.
Moron.. yep he is a moron! The guy probably thought Muslims before he went on his shooting spree, when in fact Sikh has nothing to do with Muslims. In fact Sikh means to learn. I hope they catch this moron, and put him away for a long time.. unfortunately he will get a 1 second reprieve when they put a bullet into his head....
Guns don't kill people. "described the shooter as a white male in his 30s" kill people.
Comment # 28 deleted, derail.
Re: "The guy probably thought Muslims before he went on his shooting spree..."
I seriously doubt that he thought of anything outside of his psychological programming.
Jesus Peace Be Upon Him said Love Others. Really ? I dont think so this act was an act of hatredIt is a shame that we have people like this in our country. Even if this moron think those innocent people were Muslims still that wasnt a valid reason to go on a shooting spree. They are just people like you and me. Would you like if that happens to your loved ones. I dont think so.
We people need some common sense which is not common after heard about this horrific act of cruelty.
I am a muslim my self and i condemn any act of hatred towards any human being. We are no different from others besides color and faith.
We are Americans we should know better. Save and God Bless America
Why is someone who looks different, goes to a different place of worship, of favors a differnt candidate for office always a target? Haven't we learned yet that the differences between us make us individuals? Why do we all have to be "cookie cutter people"?
I guess people forget this country was founded on "Freedom of Religion"
We do have "Freedom of Religion," provided it isn't Christian!
Ahh, I understand now, foe, what your viewpoint is.
be glad its guns killing people and not bombs killing more than guns. besides that people kill people not guns or bombs
Don't Sikhs always carry a blade? Hope the trigger happy a@#$*le lost a couple of parts.......
My Sikh friend in highschool always did... I hope that SOB did lose a few parts... :D
It's not just a blade, so to speak. It's one of the 5 articles of faith in Sikhism and it's a called a kirpaan. The general Sikh population doesn't wear it (even though they should), but the one's that get "baptised" always have to wear the 5 articles. They wear it for the protection of the weak or anyone being oppressed and it can be used as a last resort to self-defense purposes.
Didn't understand the difference between sikh and islam no doubt. "dey all lok alik"
The Sikh religion is centuries older than Islam. They originate in different parts of the world. You are commenting here. Don't you think it would be wise to find out before you comment and show your ignorance and intolerance?
the sikh religion is not older than islam. its actually a relatively young religion... founded 5-6 hundred years ago. but... the sikhs fought against islamic rule in india and drove out the muslim mughals and stopped them from forcibly converting hindus and budhists into muslims.
Read Marian, it was quite obviously sarcastic statement. Hatred is generally directed towards the muslim religion in totality in this country, these days. Very few of those I know who practice blind hatred as a way of life have the basic intelligence to discern sikh from islamic culture.
Sikh, Muslim, Buddist, Islam, JW's, Mormans, Hasidics......They're all the same thing.
Oh yes, foe, to you they are "other". More explanation on your viewpoint.
If by 'same thing' you mean man made BS, I'm incline to agree with you...
Wow, I hope everyone injured survives and has a speedy recovery.
The story is still incomplete, but sounds like a hate crime fueled by ignorance and hate. I know Minnesota and Wisconsin have a large amount of Middle Eastern immigrants and unfortunately for those that are afraid of the unknown or anything different from themselves, this represents an undefined threat. Very Sad and Un-American
Re: "...but sounds like a hate crime fueled by ignorance and hate."
That's how it is supposed to look. If you look at it realistically, it looks much more like a staged psy-op to aid in getting controversial gun control legislation through.
Multiple witnesses are saying there were DEFINITELY multiple shooters. The "official story" is one, lone, white-supremacist gun nut; so you won't read lame stream media reporting on the Truth that it was done by several individuals.
Obamas gun treaty with the UN doesn't go through then suddenly there are shootings going on everywhere.
Obama should worry about the gangs with guns not the lawabiding people. Think about knowing the neighbor and keeping the peace with each group....
Yep, people using something designed for killing to kill...
truly a conspiracey that reaches the highest level of government and society to take your metal baby away from you...
What else would one use it for? It is a weapon, it has a purpose. In this case the person using the weapon seemed to know its operating function quite well as did the policeman who killed the gunman, was his weapon any less deadly?
Sniffing too much gun powder, Brian-2973558? Time to up the dosage of those meds you got at the clinic. Or else, tighten that aluminum skull cap.
The only dangerous people in America are christian zealots with their ammo and guns, ignorance so deep it can't be measured, and tuned to talk radio with Limbaugh and Palin shrieking into their ears. Haters need someone to hate. Vote Romney and get a cult leader you can relate to. But be prepared to serve your master 'cause the 1% know how to play you like a fiddle.
Darwin smiles.
Despite what Bill-Austin (asleep) says, you are right on target.
It's not a Romney thing or an Obama thing. They both have the same OWNERS. The two party system in America is to give the illusion that there is freedom of choice. Look at Obama...it's been four more years of Bush. This is BY DESIGN.
If the gun legislation doesn't go through, THERE WILL BE MORE (SUPPOSED) LONE NUT GUN SHOOTINGS. This should be obvious.
Look at both the Ronald McDonald shooter and this case... in both cases witnesses are SURE that there was more than one shooter. Yet, the "official story" is one, lone, nutjob; so that's the story that is sold by the presstitute media.