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Subscribe to RSSUpdated at 1:08 p.m. ET: As details emerged from the scene of a shooting at a Sikh temple in southern Wisconsin, Sikhs around the country mourned the loss of their fellow believers, saying they are misunderstood minority.
"We are pretty sure that this is a hate crime because there is so much ignorance and people mistake us either being Taliban, or being part of Bin Laden’s network, or al-Qaida because of our turbans and beards," Rajwa Singh of the Guru Gobind Singh Foundation in Rockville, Md., told NBCWashington.com. The center held a special prayer Sunday for those killed in Wisconsin.
In New York, Sikhs gathered Sunday evening to mourn and try to make sense of the murderous attack.
"You cannot imagine how we loss, how we suffer," Gurdev Singh Kang, president of the Sikh Cultural Society in Richmond Hill, Queens, told NBCNewYork.com.
Kang said the uncle of the society's chairman was among those killed in Wisconsin, where a gunman opened fire Sunday morning at a temple outside Milwaukee, killing six people and wounding at least three others, including a police officer.
Alleged gunman, 'Jack Boot,' led neo-Nazi punk band
A police officer called to the scene killed the gunman before he could fire on even more worshipers.
The alleged gunman was identified Monday as Wade Michael Page, 40, a military veteran who served in the Army from April 1992 through October 1998. Page is the former leader of a neo-Nazi music group called End Apathy, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Sikhism, which emerged in central India and the Punjab region of India in the 16th century, dubs itself a "progressive religion." The Sikhs stress the oneness of God, emphasize the full equality of women and reject distinctions of creed, race or sex. Community service is also an integral part of Sikhism. According to the Association of Religion Data Archives, there are about 612,560 adherents in North America.
Male Sikhs grow thick beards and cover their heads with turbans. They are often misunderstood, labeled terrorists or mistaken for Muslims. Harassment against them has grown since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Jeffrey Phelps / AP
A gunman opened fire Sunday morning at a Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee, killing six people and wounding at least three others, including a police officer, before being shot to death, authorities said.
Shortly after 9/11, Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh gas station owner in Mesa, Ariz., was killed apparently because of his turban and his faith by an assailant who associated him with the terrorist attacks.
The Sikh Coalition, a community-based organization tackling discrimination, was founded in New York City on 9/11 as a response to the backlash violence experienced by Sikhs around the country. According to the organization’s website, an elderly Sikh and two teenagers were attacked in Queens that same night in “reprisal” attacks.
In a 2011 report to Congress on school bullying, the organization noted that "roughly half to over three-quarters of Sikh students" are targeted for bullying, harassment, or violence in New York City and the San Francisco Bay Area.
New Jersey resident Prabhujeet Singh, a software programmer, said several children have called him "Osama," NJ.com reported, and a drunk man confronted him in a grocery store, calling him the same name and growing violent.
Photoblog: Sikhs at the Golden Temple, their holiest shrine
"That turban has tragically marked us as automatically suspect, perpetually foreign and potentially terrorists," Valarie Kaur, a filmmaker who has chronicled attacks on Sikhs in the 2006 documentary "Divided We Fall," told the AP.
"We are experiencing it as a hate crime," she added. "Every Sikh American today is hurting, grieving and afraid."
Authorities said they were investigating the Wisconsin temple assault as an act of domestic terrorism. Sikh leadership condemned the attack, adding that U.S.-based adherents should consider adopting increased security measures at their places of worship, called gurdwaras.
"It is a highly unfortunate incident which has taken place in America leaving six innocent devotees dead. This is a security lapse on the part of U.S. government," Giani Gurbachan Singh, the head priest of Akal Takht, the highest Sikh temporal seat, told The Times of India. A delegation was sent to the United States to investigate the attack, he added.
According to The Associated Press, India's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, also a member of the Sikh faith, called the assault a "dastardly attack."
"That this senseless act of violence should be targeted at a place of religious worship is particularly painful," he said in a statement, according to the AP.
New York police said they would be deploying critical response vehicles as a precaution in addition to stepping up patrols at Sikh temples.
"That was miles and miles away," Gursharan Bharth said outside a temple in Flushing, Queens. "For a cop to come here and check on us to make sure we're okay, just kind of shows me that we live in New York and New York is a place where yes people rub shoulders and don't get along all the time, but we stand together still."
NBCWashington.com and NBCNewYork.com contributed to this report.
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Of course, these people were peaceful and worshiping however, if we recall history, Indira Gandhi was murdered by two of her personal Sikhs bodyguards....so, there evidently lies a violent side in that culture as well as ours and everyone else. If you are a human, you have that potential unless you are monks. They are truly peaceful beings.
I'd say we just saw the violent side of an American who was obviously quite disturbed in the head.
Sure!
I guess the moral of the story is if you're crazy enough to shoot up a bunch of Muslims as some warped way of getting back at them for 9/11, then at least make sure you're actually shooting Muslims. (This is sarcasm btw)
But at least we can take solace in the fact that the cops gunned down this sick individual before he wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on a trial/imprisonment. My thoughts are with the poor individuals who were senselessly murdered and with their families.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that a sikh has never committed an act of violence or transgressed before. To point out that a sikh once killed someone - well I'm not sure really sure what your point is! Did Gandhi's body guards kill her because she was hindu? No. It was political. Blaming that assassination on religion and culture seems pretty pointless and off the mark. Sikhs have a long history of being warriors, no one ever said they were monks!
If we are going down that road let's just count all the christians that killed someone over religion. Good lord, these were families preparing a meal at a place of peace. They never hurt anyone, nor would they have cause to. I know many sikhs and they are as American as any of us. They are good family oriented people and they are very open and neighborly - that's the only sikh culture I know. If this neo-nazi had a misguided beef with muslims, as I think is reasonable to assume, then his even more misguided attack on sikhs just demonstrates the connection between hate, violence, and stupidity. I know at least that I have always found stupid people to be the most prone to fear and hate. I am not surprised it was a neo-nazi. They are the dumbest of the dumb. A real scab on OUR culture!
What does the fact that Indira Gandhi was murdered by Sikhs have to do with anything? Nothing, that's what. It's completely irrelevant and so is the comment about monks. The fact that individual Sikhs have carried out acts of violence in the past does not somehow justify committing mass murder on a Sikh Temple. Are you somehow saying it would only be a tragedy if the Sikhs were monks??? Bizarre...
This is becoming very disturbing. The hate is everywhere against any religion that is not Christian. Just take a look at some of these newsvine boards and you will see the hate towards Muslims. It is becoming a very disturbing and terrifying trend. To vilify any people based on their religion is to vilify ALL people. The hatred has to stop. The Government needs to clearly monitor these hate groups that are defined in the Southern Poverty Law Center. They know who these hate groups are, so why are they not watched more closely. These are the American Taliban and they go about freely spouting their hate and phobia's of anyone who is different than themselves. There needs to be a crack down on the HATE GROUPS. It seems to be okay (even here on newsvine) to HATE at anyone who is Arab or Mid Eastern. It has to stop.
The hate is everywhere INCLUDING against Christians.
So what are you saying? That Sikhs are as violent as the neo-nazi numbnut that took their lives, so we shouldn't be referring to them as peaceful people? If you tried to argue that thesis in any college course, you'd get an F. I haven't read about any Sikhs mowing down Christian worshippers or anybody else, have you?
No doubt, this guy would have gone after Buddhist Monks if they'd had a monastery close enough. After all, Muslim, Taliban, Indonesian--they're all the same.
@ alumette:
True, two Sikhs did do Gandhi in, after she ordered the shredding of their Golden Temple in Armistar.... that is like shredding the wailing wall, St. Peters, or the Ka'Baa. Not to mention the Hindus went on a rampage and murdered about 2,000 to 4,000? Sikhs in greater Delhi. That riot is often referred to as India's kristallnacht.
Sikhs, as far as I know, have no known trouble with the US.... Yet.... Their Beef is with New Delhi and Islamabad, Not Washington. so I agree with their community being at the breaking point. They are neither Muslim or Hindu. They all wear a special bracelet. And they are, by and large, good citizens. Some of their young men have served in our forces, which is quite something as they have to shave and get a haircut - both which are taboo in their culture.
The Nazi who perped this had to be a real loser and real ignorant. Those people honor vets. Sad.
This guy was not much different than the Tea Nuts that are still convinced that President Obama is a Muslim and is not a U.S. citizen. The difference of course is this guy was psycho enough to kill innocent people, but the hate and ignorance are the same.
And Timothy McVeigh killed lots of Americans. Why aren't we rounding up everyone in his religion?
Unfortunately, many of the misunderedumacated (thanks Bush) on the Right, unrefudiatedly (thanks Palin) do not understand the difference between Indian religions and Arab religions....or pretty much anything else at all.
Keep in mind, the Party of No of Texas is actively trying to restrict "critical and higher level thinking skills" in their school curricula.
Surprised?
I'm not.
Monks have the potential to be violent too. They are human and all humans contain the potential for violence, regardless of who they are.
This is a senseless tragedy, however, on that we agree. My heart and prayers go out to the victim's families and friends.
Peace,
James
Is this comment really necessary? And aren't you guilty of lumping together all 'Tea Partiers' as racist, bigoted psychos much like how the shooter managed to lump together any person with a wrap on their head as fanatical Muslims who want to destroy America?
I sympathize with the Tea Party on many issues and I take tremendous offense to your post. And frankly, I'm not entirely convinced that the percentage of conservatives who can't tell the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim is any higher than the number of liberals who can't either.
Senseless and uncalled for! It is extremely insulting that fringe extremist vent and rant and cause idiot children to take it upon themselves to start culture or religious wars on the words of Michelle Bachmann or Rand Paul. Extremist like Bachmann and Paul use words to incite deep seeded hatred in people who don't know the difference between Sikh's and Muslims. Now we have this hate-crime perpetrated on innocent victims by a deranged gunman. If you do not see the correlation, you are not looking!
Unless this guy left a suicide note that stated he was taking out a bunch of Sikhs on his way out, it's safe to assume he was crazy. If he took out Sikhs instead of the Muslims he meant to kill, he's stupid too. But carrying a weapon into a place of worship to kill anybody is just plain evil. So there you have it. Crazy. Stupid. Evil.
The terms "hate crime" and "hate" have pretty much lost all meaning. Nowadays anytime anything happens to a member of some group, it is immediately labeled as a "hate crime". Any speech that disagrees with the politically popular rhetoric is labeled as "hate speech".
Simply disagreeing with someone does NOT constitute "hate speech" and not every crime against a minority group is a "hate crime". Why don't we wait and see what led this person to commit this act before we all start jumping to conclusions....
No you're not and you're just the type of immigrants we want in the US. You try to fit in and want the American dream. You learn the language and after one generation your children have assimilated.
Never Stop Asking Questions,
Yo Pot the kettle's calling on line two. Hey Einstein how do you explain the OWS guy who shot up the movie theater in Colorado? Supposedly the guy was real smart too. I've talked to a lot of Leftist like yourself. Trust me they ain't the sharpest tools in the shed. And tools they be. How else to you explain the support of the Big Eared Jug Headed idiot residing in the people's White House. A guy who finished last in his class at Harvard and fraudulently completed financial assistance paperwork claiming to be a foreign national? Someone who lies every chance he gets. Talk about dumb. Rumor has it the Pop Press is done carrying the water for this Administration. The revelation that the White House is approving every story written by pool reporters is a huge embarrassment to the Pop Media. Proof that is the story by the Washington Post about White House adviser David Plouffe taking $100,000 from an Iran tied company. Here's the kicker. The Administration knew about it.
So here you have it folks. The White Christian Supremacists had a member go rogue and murder and injure tens of people..... on a Sunday...... in a holy building. Yet I don't see 1300 comments about how the Old Testament has tons of violent passages talking about killing all non believers, making generalizations about our religion and culture as a whole, then demanding we collectively do something about those dangerous Christians!
Even Alumette took this opportunity to pick the pepper out of the poop on a single incident of violence by 2 individuals who happened to be Sikhs. Yet now that there is a very strong & real example of a Christian Extremist who committed an act of violence base on his personal beliefs (that are rooted in religion), lets all make up excuses about how this shouldn't reflect poorly on all Christians! Because what would a tragedy like this be if people couldn't act hypocritical and fail to apply their same logic about Islam when the terrorist is one their own kind?
It is a fact that the police are looking at this as an act of terrorism. It is a fact that he was part of a Neo-Nazi group, which justifies most of their beliefs thru claims Christian morals, making them a type of religious extremist group. What other evidence do you need before you start comparing this to an act of an Islamic terrorist?
Are you ready to admit there is a double standard yet?
Alumette,
"If you are a human, you have that potential unless you are monks."
Unfortunately, monks are not immune to the disease of hatred and violence, either. "Saint" Bernard of Clairvaux was a monk, and he was one of the chief "rabble rousers" of the Crusades.
To the Sikh's,
I want to apologize for the actions of a the few or the one that have hurt you so. Like yourselves, most of America is tolerant and educated. Like you, we have among us a minority contingent that is not stable, that are prone to acts of violence. Like yourselves, they do not represent us.
Again, I'm sorry for what has happened.
An incredible amount of ignorance on display here. A former neo-nazi rock group leader turned crazed gunman is no more closely associated with the Tea Party (or Republicans at all for that matter) than he is with OWS or any leftist movement. This was not political speech folks....and it probably wasn't "hate speech" in the popular sense of that word either. It was an act of violence committed for a reason that none of us will ever know, unless as has been suggested above he left a very detailed note outlining his motivation. Hateful and unbalanced people may cite political motivations for their hate and violence...but it's a stretch to say that the political positions of either the left or the right are the "cause" of the violence. People cause hate and violence...not political rhetoric.
I'm sorry, but through history so many people have been bought off to either do the dirty deed, or allow someone else to be failing to do their jobs. Choosing a couple of losers who allowed themselves to be bought to represent an entire culture or group of people is very narrow minded, even if they did.
"I sympathize with the Tea Party on many issues and I take tremendous offense to your post."
I am a Sikh, and I am not feeling any hatred towards another community because of the Wisconsin tragedy. I would instead, request the readers to go to a a Sikh temple in near future and see the Sikh community, talk with them, and share the free vegetarian meal with them. That's a good way to make them welcome. They would love it and you would too. We are all here for such a short time, why are we fighting and instead spend some time getting to know other cultures? people? Peace.
Charlie-1915998: Then who filled the Colorado shooter with hate? It certainly wasn't Beck, Palin, Bachmann or Limbaugh. He apparently was from the left. Just like the shooter in Arizona and the violent G20 protesters, and.....The guy was nuts, he snapped. End of story. Yet folks like you just want to bring politics into it. For all anybody knows, right now, he was cut off in traffic and followed somebody to the temple. Maybe not, but it isn't known yet what really triggered it.
In US Most of People with Turbans are not Muslims but Sikhs. Baring that one incident of Hindu - Sikh violence ( in which both ends were are fault and not just sikhs ), they have lived with peace and harmony with other communities. Even world Muslims are now divided into 2 sections , 1 being the under educated ( who believe in only mosque education and primarily lives in Islamic countries ) and other being the modern Muslims ( educated ones and living primarily in secular or developed world ). Before marking any person terrorist by their attire and religion , People should talk to the person for a while and then try to frame their opinion. Extremist can be smelled easily and can be found in every religion.
@Singhs,
I for one would enjoy the religious and cultural opportunity of visiting a Sikh Temple. I found one in my area at 38 Tarbell Ave. , in Cleveland (actually Bedford I believe) Ohio. When I was little my family had friends from Egypt some Muslim and some Christian. I promised back then never to judge anyone based on religion, race, or nationality. In fact I chose to embrace and rejoice in our differences as I feel that it can add color and joy to life.
@Vivek,
Your words are so very true.....beautiful post. Have you noticed a trend that regardless of the religion it seems that the more education people have. The more inclined they are to ask questions of their own religion and be open minded (or tolerant) to other religions and cultures. Its not always true but it seems to occur more often (that I've noticed) anyway.
My heart goes out to the victims and all of the others affected by this tragedy.
Yes Education is the Key to Eradicate Violence. Today Most of the Muslims are on Wrong Track because they are deprived of the Modern Education. In Islamic countries , they are forced to go for Muslim Radical Education (Madrasas) and Modern Education is considered as Taboo. They are taught that Muslims are the supremeist of people and Jihad is all about killing non-muslims for glorifying their own Religion. Whosoever goes for such radical education fell into their trap. Whereas Muslims moved to secular / developed countries upon getting the modern education and upbringing have a different mind set. But Sadly they have to suffer because of Ills by the foolish ones.
They may not be Taliban or any terrorist group but after 9/11, Islamics have kinda built that reputation for themselves on the American people. I'm pretty sure it would be the same thing if Americans did something like a 9/11 in Afghanistan, and we had a Christian group over there, there would be a shooting from an Afghan because we would have built that reputation on their people.
@GOArmyIowa Which part of THEY ARE NOT MUSLIM do you not understand?
Obviously, none.
Wow, the whole article is about how Sikhs are not Muslim but goarmyiowa doesn't get it. ...
He doesn't care. They're non-white non-Christians; that's all he needs to know.
Honestly, I am more afraid of the mindset of some of the people on this thread than anyone. I am becoming more frightened of the people in THIS COUNTRY. Terrorism...that is what this attack was...terrorism. I live in TN and we just made the national news AGAIN because of the ignorance of people here and what they don't understand. Sad, sad, sad. Muslim, Atheist, Catholic, Baptist, Buddhism, Hindiuism, whatever...live and let live people. If you are afraid of what you don't understand, look around, study some of it and realize that people are pretty much the same. What a tragedy.
So what if they are not Muslim? A lot of people keep saying "They are not Muslim."
Please be careful. Some nut might read into that that it's OK if this was at a mosque.
I'm sure many, many Fox Fans are scratching their scabby heads over this one...
I'm pretty sure it would be the same thing if Americans did something like a 9/11 in Afghanistan
Ummmm? we didn't perhaps you should read and UNDERSTAND the news.
@GoArmyIowa is typical of the ignorance that pervades this country and gets people like Michelle Bachmann elected to office, resulting in diplomatic disasters, and tragedies like this. It amazes me that there is so much ignorance about who Sikhs are. I remember some rightwing congressman from the South, after 9/11, talking about men "with diapers on their heads." He, too, didn't know the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim. (And also didn't seem to understand the difference between a Muslim and a terrorist.) And this was an elected official, a man who came to office thanks to the support of folks like GoArmyIowa. I believe in democracy, but an unfortunate consequence of democracy is that ignorant people also get to vote, and ignorant people elect equally ignorant people to represent them.
GoArmyIowa: "But they're brown, and wear turbans, what do you mean they're not Muslim?!?"
/palmface
Sikhism is not an Islamic religion. And it is NOT OK to do this at a mosque, a temple, a church, a synagogue, a revival tent, your living room, a storefront church or where ever people worship/congregate. It's just not OK to do this ANYWHERE.
I don't want to have to share my country with people like GoArmyIowa. Ignorant, paranoid bigots who somehow think it's patriotic to be violent and stupid.
GoArmyIowa #2
you didn't do the Army any good, Iowa any good or yourself with your post!
We are prone to take the words or deeds of an individual and apply them to whatever group the individual is affiliated with. There is some merit in this, especially where religion is concerned, but once again, labeling entire groups based on the action of an individual or a small group is a lazy way to reconcile what we don't understand. labeling entire populations or countries, or religions, or races, or sexes, this way is the very heart of ignorant, hateful behavior, like racism, or sexism.
We owe it to ourselves and the rest of civilization to try to be more watchful of the way we form our opinions. It is easy to jump to conclusions when we are anxious to gain perspective, but patient consideration and study can bring understanding.
One other thing we all tend to do is become defensive of our considered opinions. Defending our thoughts will many times cause us to become ever more staunch in our beliefs. While standing our ground can be appropriate, we all should try to open our minds and really listen to different opinions. There is NO shame in rejecting a belief we hold if we become convinced our original conclusion was incorrect or hastily reached.
Hate, has its origins in ignorance, and stubborn adherence to opinions formed in haste or adopted from so called experts who, quite often, haven't done their homework before promoting their opinions. Consider certain radio talk-show hosts or political pundits who speak authoritatively while ruminating in front of a microphone or camera. Listeners or viewers tend to buy in to the views expressed, especially when the views align with their own. We all should seek to understand just how educated the talk-show host or pundit is on the subject he or she is addressing before we blindly accept their ideas.
Individualism should be our mantra, judge, label, reject or accept individuals based on their behavior.
My heartfelt condolences to those who follow the Sikh religion, and to the families and friends of those whose lives were senselessly taken by a hateful, ignorant, evil man!
Rick in SD, not sure what Michelle Bachman has to do with this tragedy, but if you are going to talk about stupid people, lets not forget those who elected the likes of Pelosi and Reid, and their tragedies known as Obamacare, and the Federal budget.
I've not seen any indication of political motives in this shooting. Unless someone who can prove it says it first, let's not make things up.
Condolences to the families of the victims.
@willowbrook, your comment suggests ignorance about "Obamacare" (and the federal budget, for that matter). The core principles of Obamacare came from Republicans. I don't know how old you are, or how long you have been voting, but if you have voted for Republicans prior to 2009, you most likely voted for people who were proponents of what wound up being Obamacare. If you are planning to vote for Romney, then you are being a hypocrite, just as he is. Just three years ago, he wrote an op-ed encouraging the Obama Administration to essentially nationalize his Romneycare, rather than adopt universal health care or a public option, as Democrats were proposing. In introducing Obamacare, in an effort of bipartisanship, the Obama Administration did exactly what Romney had encouraged. But the Republican party was so hellbent on defeating Obama, they turned against their own proposals and voted against the bill -- going against ideas they had invented and had been promoting for two decades: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/graphics/2010/022310-bill-comparison.aspx
Now back to my comment. What Michelle Bachmann has to do with this tragedy is that she had been on a constant witch hunt for anyone that doesn't think like her. People in Congress who do not share her beliefs she thinks need to be investigated for being anti-American. She has publicly stated this. Very recently, she's leveled completely bogus, unsubstantiated charges against an aid of Hillary Clinton because of her muslim background. This sort of behavior, in my estimation, is the epitome of being un-American. And people of her ilk, like Harry Reid's opponent in the last election, Sharon Angle, have gone further by encouraging "Second Amendment remedies." Now we have this tragedy. This evil man shared many of the same ideas and ignorance of the likes of Michelle Bachmann and Sharon Angle, people who are constantly riling up their "base" with hatred and anger. They may not be as direct and blunt in their hatred, choosing coded language instead, but the similarities in belief are there, even if it is not as deeply hateful or overt. But it's equally ignorant. And yes, this man has now been identified as a neo-Nazi. I'm not saying Michelle Bachmann is a neo-Nazi, but her rhetoric does encourage this type of person. And I've never heard her say anything that would discourage the anger of someone like him. And now we have the consequence of that festering anger, which was enough to push a clearly unbalanced individual over the edge and commit murder against good and innocent people.
Well said Rick! When politicians push their 'not like us' views, they are a dangerous breed and should not be holding public office.
So she doesn't really have anything to do with this.....The majority of Americans have no clue what Michelle Bachmann is saying, and don't care. It's only folks like you, with an ax to grind that tracks her like you're some hunting dog. How about your opinon on some of the more "intelligent" things Pelosi and Reid have said....like "we have to pass the bill so we can know what's in it" and Harry's personal vendetta against Romney on the Senate floor. Allegations he has no proof of, let alone, have nothing to do with the election....(chirping crickets....) yea, thought so...
You are giving the Republicans more credit for Obamacare than they're due. They voted against it because the AMERICAN PEOPLE were against it, and still are to this day. (Too bad the Democrats didn't listen to their Constituents!) Let alone, there are so many negatives in the bill that far out weigh the "positives" by a long shot. And don't forget, there is the cost, the element that will ultimately cause this bill to fail. We will never be able to pay for it. That's why the Republicans didn't vote for it.
@willowbrook, it's funny you that say that the majority of Americans don't care what Michelle Bachmann is saying. This is a woman who a few months ago WAS RUNNING FOR THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, for crying out loud! That's why her words and actions matter. I don't know what the majority of Americans are doing -- probably watching the Kardashians or "Dancing with the Stars" or similar crap -- but there are many Americans who do listen to her. As for me "tracking her like some hunting dog," waaaaah! Poor defenseless Michelle. That's hilarious! Ms. Bachmann spends her whole career tracking people who don't share her wacky beliefs, "like some hunting dog." Just ask Huma Abedin. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. As for your comments on Obamacare, nice job showing us you're a sheep who goes by the latest Republican talking points of the day. You're giving me no substance here. Tell me what substantive changes were made to cause Obamacare to be significantly different than what the Republicans had been pushing all those years. How is the mandate Republicans backed for 20 years any different than the mandate that's in the law? Did you vote for Republicans before they did an about face on all this stuff? Are you supporting Romney, one of the original proponents of Obamacare? As for most Americans being against the law, I'm one of those against it because I think we should have universal health care. But at least I recognize that this better than the status quo.
You notice she didn't last very long. Duh. You can blame the Republicans all you want, I notice you continue to ignore the FACT that the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare. Like I said before, you have an ax to grind with Republicans.
And no, I'm not a sheep, I'm an HR manager for a small business who has been struggling to even keep a health care policy since the bill was signed. Just finished my 3rd renewal, and these last 3 were the worst in company history. We virtually have no care now. Only preventative care and catastrophic, since we have to pay the first $5000 single/$10,000 family before our benefits kick in. (This is in rural Ohio, not the East Coast.) Those in the industry knew it was not going to go like those with the talking points said it would, but no one listened to them, or small businesses. No protections were made for the small businesses in the plan, essentially, they were the first to be attacked, or "weeded out," as the case may be. I believe we need health care reform. Obamacare is not reform, nor will it solve our problems.
Don't blame all birds for the one that pooped on your car.
It's what you do that matters, not whose Name you do it in.
"not sure what Michelle Bachman has to do with this tragedy, "
These particular people are peaceful members of the community as most of us are but isolated criminal elements occur in all races, cultures and societies for various reasons. I recall history as Indira Gandhi was murdered by her two Sikhs bodyguards, so these men were not peaceful. The only peaceful people are likely monks, whether Christians or Buddhists. They never kill anyone, maybe themselves as a statement to society.
sorry, I am repeating myself. These comments were intended for different sites.
Ok, so based on the actions of two people, who happened to be Sikh, you have decided that Sikhs, in general, are not peaceful people. And Indira Gandhi's approval of a military attack on a Sikh temple didn't have anything to do with her assassination?
I don't know of any Sikh gangs in this country. I don't know of any threats by the Sikh community towards their neighbors. I have never seen a Sikh who wasn't excited to get to know someone and share with them. Does that mean that I think all Sikhs are always peaceful? Sikhs are human beings and I think we all know the answer to that!
Pointing out some one-off contradiction is useful to this conversation how?
Yes, and an Albanian guy once mugged my grandfather. Dog-gone-it, it's time to put all Albanians into national guard lock-down! (Right wing logic at its finest.)
Alumette, let me pull your coat about something. Those comments aren't worth posting on any site. They make you look like a fool and have nothing to do with explaining anything. Do you think someone is going to celebrate your brillancy and applaud?
These "peaceful" Sikhs murdered 329 innocent people when they put a bomb on Air India flt 182. That was the worst airline bombing in history.
so the sikhs in wisconsin murdered 329 people?... I doubt it typical ignorant, blanket, worthless neo-con statement....
I'll defer comments back to Michelle Bachmann since she is so intelligent to be part of some intelligence committee. Oh wait, this just in... she is not?
"When hatred is spread by the path with which bigotry walks, there is no reasoning with those that willingly walk on it." ~Louis J
I hold the Beck-Palin-Limbaugh-Hannity-Bachmann cabal responsible for fomenting this Reichwing, xenophobic, anti-intellectual hatred.
Heck of a job, Reichwing.
He is clearly a Left-wing, Communist, Socialist, Atheist, Muslim, Kenyan, Mau-Mau, Fascist, Nazi, Public-Sector, Teacher, Pensioneer, unemployed, EU-loving, anti-Keynesian, Greenspanian, John Galt, Randian, Faux News-watching bastard.
My beliefs forbid hatred. But, it's difficult when a skinhead calls himself "American" and doesn't adhere to the principles on which this country was founded. Freedom and Equality. There is no description, for the way I feel about this murderer of these REAL Americans. NO skinhead is American!
Why be so politically correct in the article? After 9/11, a turbaned Sikh man was shot dead because the shooter thought -wrongly-that the victim was Muslim. American muslims do not wear turbans. You would think that muslims would have the guts to go on TV and say so. Sikhs often wear colorful turbans like high headresses--in different colors like blue, pink, black, etc.... along with either Indian or Western garb.
Sarabjit converted to Islam, has a Muslim name Sarfaraz: Surjeet
HE Special Correspondent from Lahore | 29th June, 2012 :: This question is haunting many of the Indians today when it is well known that an big numbers of Hindu and Sikh prisoners are being converted into Islam and the Pak authorities deliberately serve beef to all prisoners not considering the religious bars of anyone. Reports are in the air that Sarabjit Singh, the most highlighted convict in Pak Jail had been converted to Islam and was now known as Sarfaraz and another Indian prisoner on death row in Pakistan, Kirpal Singh, had also been converted to Islam and had given a new name Mohammed Din.It is interesting to study why patriotic Indians refuse to kick out our Jihadi terrorists from our midsts. Indian citizens (Hindus) are the only group in the world where they stand still and act like zombies and behave like addicts as mute spectators while Indian justic system and internal polices are turned into unwise compromise, irrational tolerance, corruption and three monkey syndrome. It can frustrate fairness and reality and truth. Healthy, normal people will not compromise with a burglar coming into our house with a knife to behead us and to steal all we have. Those who are concerned about our society, justice, fairness and human welfare will join together and fight against corruption, injustice and Jihadi terrorism.
As per report, Hindu and Sikh prisoners are considered as the slaves of the Muslim Prisoners in Pak Jails with an exception of some political and classified prisoners of bilateral relation with the other states.
http://hinduexistence.wordpress.com/category/attack-upon-hindus-sikhs-by-muslims/
Not all Americans are so ignorant of Sikhs or filled with hate. These Americans including myself sympathize with the loss felt by the Sikh community and harbor no ill will. May you find a way through this tragedy to help yourselves by using this platform to educate the ignorant so they too may understand who you are and what you believe.
thank you Mic from Cleveland!!!
A voice of reason and tolerance on the vine....I'M SHOCKED!!!
Going with you on this one. I still don't understand why it is so hard for some to comprehend that Sikhs do NOT practice Islam. I am so tired of the ignorance of some people.
and even if THEY did practice Islam that is still no reason to murder them.....
I'm still betting this neo-nazi just saw them, assumed they were an "Islamic enemy", and decided to start executing them without even knowing who they really were. I know being a Nazi is a "freedom" in this country, but there is a reason it is illegal in Germany.
Yes, alumette, you are repeating yourself. And it makes no more sense the second time around than it did the first. You should be ashamed for even considering making such a statement twice.
As a general rule, Neo Nazis hate everyone who is not white or non Christian, including Jews and Catholics, hence, the name Nazi.
I think KeenInsight said it best. If this guy was really a Neo Nazi, then hate for anybody but his own was what was really happening here.
Exactly KeenInsight. Everyone is talking about mistaking Sikhs for Muslims (which certainly happens and might be true in this case), but maybe he knew exactly what they were and they were just the closest, easiest/softest, non-white target. We don't have enough information at this point.
No doubt the shooter was mentally ill. He killed people with no forethought or investigation. He's no different than the Aurora, Colorado shooter. Somewhere a mental breakdown occurs and they do unjnustifiable and unfathomable things. Hopefully the community will heal soon.
The mental break occurs the minute the decision to acquire a gun is made. Often it is simply that the human allows a demon to take over, giving their will over to evil. The thought to get a weapon meant to kill is just the opening evil needs, the rest is just so simple that it does not need explanation.
Got my first gun in 1974 after getting out of the army. Haven't shot anything but paper targets. So you will have to explain it to me.
headkick,
"So you will have to explain it to me."
I would sat that either your gun is defective or you might be a good person that doesn't want to hurt anyone.
Mic in Cleveland,
Wonderful post
Sikhs are the gentlest of the gentle, and the most honest of the honest, anywhere they go. I am disgusted at the ignorance of that madman for attacking such kind people....and yes, I know they were kind, because they are ALL strong adherents to their religion and their religion revolves around being kind and humane to all living things. Fortunately my son and daughter grew up where there is a lot of cultural diversity and learned so much about the different peoples of the world. A Sikh gentleman gave my son a stuffed Elephant off his store shelf to reward him for starting kindergarten. Fifteen years later my son still cherishes it, smiles and greets any Sikh person (or Hindu for that matter) that he sees, because if the fine examples of this gentleman, and his brother who made pizzas and fed all the schoolkids free after school to make sure they all got a hot meal that day. (Incidentally the turban is usually used to cover their hair which is never cut, and roped around their heads....may not be the case for some more "modern" gents but that is why the turban was originally used, so my friend explained).
satan doesn't play favorites. "The thief comes to steal, to kill and to destroy." John 10:10
Sikhs, you don't need any stinking turbans in America. Get rid of them. Or go back to Punjab. Why did you come to the U.S.A. if you wanted to stick to your unnecessary customs? Even in the rest of India, Sikhs are somewhat frowned upon for their turbans. Essentially they are isolating themselves. Nothing else will stop the hate. In America, even obese people are biased against. Turbans are out of the question. This is the politically incorrect fact that nobody wants to face up to. Sorry.
Seems I have a much higher opinion of most of my fellow Americans than you do...
Yes, you are...quite sorry! It is a head turbin...for crying out loud. Get over yourself.
AB-1981 - The turban is one of the central items of faith for Sikhs. Asking them to take it off is like asking a Jew not to get circumcized. I'm not a Sikh, but I understand that wearing the turban, growing their beard, not cutting their hair are hallmarks of their faith. It sets them apart and shows their devotion. A Sikh man without a beard or a turban is not a faithful Sikh. Even the US Army allows them to keep their turbans on duty.
Educate yourself and don't be a hater.
You guys wake up to reality. Don't you see what's happening. They're getting killed.
Why do you think they chose a non-bearded non-turban-wearing Sikh to represent their community on TV?
So, your logic is Turban equals target? Several years ago now there was a massive shooting at New Life Church. Let me guess, they were targeted for wearing crosses? Oh yeah, and the movie theater shooting was because of what? Your logic makes no sense. Acts of violence such as these are not going to go away just because they take their Turban off or shave their beards.
Your attitude is appalling. You are blaming the raped girl for being raped. You are saying she shouldn't dress that way if she doesn't want to be attacked.
Has any community immigrated to America and done away with their culture or customs? Where do Christmas trees come from? What kind of American drinks wine with dinner? Did you eat a bagel this morning? Sushi? What about St. Patrick's day? Should America be a nation where we should be forced to adopt one single culture? If so does that mean cowboy hats for everyone, or cowboy hats for none? You do realize that herding cows from horseback started in Spain right? Rodeos too!
Likely because he was standing there when the reporter asked him to comment. Not all sikhs wear turbans all the time, there are many levels of devotion just as all Jews don't always wear a yarmulke.
Please get off the Vine for a day and think about the comments you have made and why they are misguided.
AB, if people's head gear sends you into such a tizzy, I suggest that you need psychological help and deprogramming. You sound like you're filled with hate and paranoia, coupled with frightening ignorance.
AB-198whatever....what in the hell are you talking about? Are you for real?
AB - Immigrants have been coming to this country for a couple hundred years, and none of them have left their culture at the border.
your comment was stupid and ignorant and people have the right to dress and celebrate there culture and customs i.e. mardi gras, carnival, st patty's day, cinch de mayo, etc. this is america how about you leave and come back when you can respect people that aren't like you
Laughing at these peeps who are using the actions of 2 Sikhs in 1984 to justify their bigotry against Sikhs today.....SMFH!!!
Well, thats the history of racist white people.
Ted, being racist isn't exclusive to white people! I realize the idiot who shot the people in Wisconsin was white but there are racist in just about every group of people!!
What a shame that the average American is ignorant of almost every religion and culture in the world. We spend a lifetime hating and precious little time trying to educate ourselves.
But...but...but...we're the UNITED STATES. We don't to know anything about other religions and cultures. It's their job to adjust and conform to us. Fox News tells us that.
We're Number One!
USA!!!....USA!!!....USA!!!....USA!!!....USA!!!....USA!!!....USA!!!....USA!!!
Is it not a little disturbing that people keep commenting on the difference between Sikhs and Muslims? If this would have happened at a Muslim mosque, and the shooter known the difference, would it make the shooting more understandable? Either way, people are being murdered for their beliefs.
totally agree with you.....
True, but the fact that the ignorant, violent bigoted filth who did this got it wrong adds an extra element of sick irony to the whole tragedy.
But, TracyS, what if he didn't get it wrong. Perhaps to him, white American purity is being polluted by all these darker, foreign, & non-Christian groups. The Sikh's, the Muslims, the Taliban, they are all a proxy for his twisted beliefs.
Keen, you are probably right about that. He may have simply been out to shoot people who were supposedly "different."
No, the people who died in yesterdays shooting died because the shooter was angry at someone else's beliefs, not theirs.
The people who died yesterday were at the wrong end of a gun. Their beliefs did not sever the vital organs from their bodies, that was done by bullets emanating from a gun. In this case, just as in every other situation where a person dies from gunshot wounds, the gun really did kill them.
Actually the republican party shares more of the Taliban ideology. like hating gays and anyone who doesn't share their religeous beliefs, than the Sikhes do.
You mean the extreme far right of the Republican party. When the Republican party stands for fiscal responsibility, freedom, etc. it's all to the good.
The caveat, there, of course is that too often "freedom" is defined as the freedom of more powerful entities, such as banks or employers to exploit people, which in my opinion is corruption of what the Republican party is supposed to stand for.
Byron: The things the Republican Party stood for 50 years ago are long, long forgotten, and those who espoused moderate Republican views have been silenced and shuttled to the sidelines by the current GOP, which is reactionary, ignorant, crazed with religion and fueled on hate.
Byron, don't forget their definition of "fiscal responsibility" means "enough tax dollars to beneifit themselves and whatever they support and calling everything else a waste".
Taliban treats women badly too,the same ideology as what the religious hate Republican did to American's women.
Sikhs, you don't need any stinking turbans in America. Get rid of them. Or go back to Punjab. Even in the rest of India, Sikhs are somewhat frowned upon for their turbans. Essentially they are only isolating themselves. Nothing else will stop the hate. In America, even obese people are biased against. Turbans and beards are out of the question. This is the politically incorrect fact that nobody wants to face up to. I am not a hater - just a realist. I know it is an item of their faith, but all religious faith is irrational in itself. Why do you think they chose a non-bearded non-turban-wearing Sikh to represent their community on TV?
[This post was edited and intentionally repeated because the previous post was collapsed.]
So let me get this straight, if Christians were being killed in the Middle East because they had crosses on its okay because they are wearing crosses which are isolating them?
No, of course not, but if I was in a Middle East government, I'd still deport them forever. It's more about practicality.
it should be collapsed why you don't have to give up your culture why should any one else this is america and they are americans whether you like it or not
Maybe the US has become too much of a melting pot.
We are starting to resemble a chamber pot.
Are you advocating ethnic cleansing?
Neo-Nazi style of advocating ethnic cleansing,that's why the World really Piss-off.
It's being reported that the shooter was an Army vet just back from overseas, I'll bet he had PTSD and was having flashbacks. I'm not condoning what this guy did I'm just saying we will see more of this when all the troops come home unless they get treatment.
BTW: I know a couple of Sikhs and they are friendly-peaceful people, not all of them adhere to the long beard and turban tradition.
dude he left the army in 1998....
try reading the article before you post
queenie
he got a dishonorable discharge, hence he was thrown out of the military. he didn't leave. Looks like he had "problems" for quite some time.
More importantly, why would anyone sell guns to someone who had been dishonorably discharged from the military? Is that information sealed?
TraceyS
It's called the second amendment. The right to buy and use a weapon is more important than even the token of background checks. People with dishonorable discharges lose some of their first amendment rights (the right to vote) but not their second.
(That was sarcasm to the gun-huggers out there.)
Thanks for clarifying, Alverant. I'm convinced at this point that if I gave my 5-year-old $2,000 in cash and sent her into a gun store, she'd come out armed like Preschool Rambo.
he was kicked out of the army over a decade ago you are really misinformed, uninformed, or you really don't care what the killer did....but its one of the three
About ten percent of the American people are so dumb they think any one who wears a turban is their enemy.
More than that these days, I'd say.
I think you're being overly optimistic with that 10 percent figure. How many people still vote Republican in this country? That's a better number to hit for.
Ever since 9/11 there will always be profiling. I am guilty of it. But not enough to ever hurt anybody. This wacko is evil but in his feeble mind he thought he was doing something right. It wasn't and innocent people were changed forever. So sorry for the horrible outcome of one man's demented mind.
Here's a short and very informative video about Sikhism, produced by the Chicago Police Department. We need to be better educated about Americans of different faiths and customs, and this is a good start:
OK, the website won't allow me to post the link, so if you're interested, Google "Chicago Police Department video Sikhism," and the first hit (at archive.org) will take you to the video.
Oh Mae, now you're trying to educate people who want to shoot first and ask questions later. That's not very American of you. /s/
Again, it seems the point is being missed. This is just another incidence of the escalating gun violence in the U.S. (and no other industrialized/civilized country in the world is even close) that is directly related to the proliferation of and accessibility to guns. We've had this dialog many times in the past year. Guns do not kill people, people kill people, but in the U.S. people kill people with guns. Gun control is the only likely solution or gun violence will continue, daily and dramatically. There is no equivocation for this, the 2nd amendment has already been interpreted in its 300 year old context to outlaw modern firearms. We don't need a citizens militia. In the strict sense, does it mean that only muskets should be obtainable? Point blank, guns do not make us safer. They simply increase the means for lethal violence and again, it is not a matter of IF these incidents will occur, only when and how often.
Forget about it. You only think in the very short-term. Wake up to how tyrannical the government is becoming. The people should be able to have weapons of any kind that the government can.
So that must mean that you rhink you're entitled to have tactical nukes.
Yes, people should be able to band together and own WMDs, as long as they can demonstrate safety and mental stability. There is no saying that the government won't use it against their own people.
AB, you must be writing satire. No one is that stupid...are they?
That statement, AB, in and of itself is a demonstration of a lack of mental stability.
Sorry, but no amount of gun control will ever stop violence or hate.
Even if we had no guns at all, would that have stopped this person?
No, he'd have taken a crossbow, molotov cocktails, IED's - whatever he could have gotten his hands on, and we could well have an even worse situation instead.
Just imagine what sort of damage this guy could have done with nitrate explosive (aka Timothy McVay), or even a few beer-bottles full of gasoline and some burning rags.
No, Gun Control is NOT a solution.
Advocacy of Gun Control is akin to urinating on the grave of Thomas Jefferson. You can take that sort of behavior and thinking right the f--k out of my country - you're not welcome here.
DOCJT, you're naive. You don't know what evils the government is capable of. Already they've destroyed the nation by putting it in enormous debt, destroyed the planet with CO2 emissions, destroyed the environment with fracking, took tax money from me and given it to evil Wall Street merchants... the list goes on. Feel free to live in your "all is well" pipe dream.
AB, there's rather a lot of space in between saying "all is well" and "people should be able to band together and own WMDs." Idiotic hyperbole certainly won't make "all well."
Indigo Rage-Have to disagree with you in that statistics prove that Gun Control is extremely effective in preventing gun violence everywhere in the world. Other weapons like bombs, or molotv cocktails, do not offer the convenience, effectiveness, or empowerment for the kinds of violence and massacres commited with guns in this country. We have embraced the culture of the wild west, but in the process, we have abandoned civility and safety. Gun Control is already here in our schools, airports, municipal buildings, etc. and that has nothing to do with Thomas Jefferson. Again, no need to raise a militia or arm ourselves with muskets. Times have changed, weapons have changed. I respect the liberal views of those who defend gun ownership, but let's be clear that the cost for this freedom is random gun violence. We don't need to rationalize it, just accept it or do something about it. Gun control is an option and it is up to the majority to decide the issue. This is also my country where tolerance of respectful viewpoints is also a freedom we all enjoy. You offere nothing constructive, so lighten up with your rhetoric and hyperbole, it is un-American in the extreme.
Picture this:
You wake in the morning, and discover there are no more guns in America. No one can explain how, or where they went, but they're gone without a trace.
What happens next?
Mexican cartels roll in across the boarder, because they still have guns. Tens of thousands in boarder towns are murdered, their heads set on each street sign until you can read the mark of whichever cartel has claimed that area from the sky.
Jihadists invade from all around the world, all to glad to simply blow themselves up in public, because they can.
And worse yet: Our elected officials, with the backing of the corporate sponsors declare martial law, at first, under the guise of "peace-keeping" while the Jihadis and the cartels are rounded up... except...
half the Jihadis are here for their wall-street earnings, the cartels have afternoon meetings with Big Pharm, and we're still under martial law oh, and now they're levying a fee on us, to keep soldiers in our streets, to give us the illusion of safety, while our "leaders" make themselves richer and richer because they now know we are disarmed and unable to fight back.
And now it's Wednesday.
The reason for the second amendment isn't to ensure we can hunt for sport or food. It's not so we can join our soldiers when our enemies are on our shores. It exists because our Founding Fathers realized they would not live forever, and the wisdom they tried so hard to pass down the generations would fail, and some day our government would, like old yeller, need to be put down. And we can't rightly put down something as fat, bloated and cancerous as our government without firearms.
But let's go pay another visit to pansy-land...
This time, a disgruntled fellow with a grudge decides today-is-the-day, and someone-is-going-to-die...
He doesn't pack up his bag of guns and head to the theatre, because he has no guns. So instead, he fills last night's empty beer bottles with gasoline, stuffs a rag in the bottle and shoves his lighter in his pocket, buys himself a ticket to The Dark Knight Takes a Day Off, and from the balcony of the theatre he lobs and entire twelve pack of flaming death-from-above.
Now we don't have a dozen dead, we hundreds dead - not just the folks in the theatre with him, but in conjoining theatres, and even the building next door, as the fires rage out of control. Oh, and being a particularly hot, dry summer, this sets off a series of wild fires that wipes out 1/3 of the state.
Still think guns are so bad?
Indigo Rage - You are either a true paranoid or a certifiable sociopath. In either case, you are not in touch with reality. Your scenarios are ludicrous. Your sense of proportion and history cannot be substantiated. The absurdity of the violence you imagine as resulting from gun control is happening now with guns and lack of control. There is no logic to your analogies or visions. My point is not that gun control is a guaranteed solution that will work in this country. It is that if we don't opt for it, then we must accept the escalation of the current violence here. One way or the other. But you can't argue that gun control doesn't work elsehwere, it does. You can't argue that guns make us safer, they don't. You can't really stand on the 2nd amendment, because it has already been selectively interpreted to exclude firearms. We already have limited forms of gun control at airports, schools, municpal buildings, it is unchallenged and it works. Understandable that we are attached to owning guns, but if you don't want them controlled, then provide a solution that has not already been tried. What is it? What works? What have you got? No more paranoid delusional scenarios please. Either offer something constructive or remain silent and accept things as they are now.
well said ecoman and I doubt the mexican cartel would want to take on the national guard or our armed forces, or , our police
welcome to america! where idiots abound, and misunderstanding reigns supreme!
Yeah, like I said before, "We're Number One!"
welcome to America! where idiots abound, and IGNORANCE reigns supreme!
Are some of you implying that it would have been okay if the victims were Muslims? I can understand why a Sikh would say, "hey, don't attack me, I am not a Muslim", because he/she knows that the target is actually Muslims. However, that should notmean that it's okay to target a Muslim just because he/she is a Muslim. And please do't tell me that teh man has PTSD or a just a sick individual. Is that not the same excuse many of the so called Muslim terrorists use? After all they are just as disgusted and even moreso, because of the sheer number of their relatives or country men, women and children that continnues to be killed by US soldiers, Israelis soldiers etc., and all by and with US made weapons.
Let's call a spade a spade. It's terrible when so many of us are all so gung ho about killing other people just because of their religion or color.
Of course there are ignorant individuals that think Muslims would have "deserved it" if this would have happened to the Muslim community, even to American Muslims with absolutely no connection to the events of 9/11. Most don't even have an idea as to why most foreign Muslim extremists dislike our government in the first place--forget that we have occupied/supported war in/fought against countries like Afghanistan for nearly 3 decades, if not longer. When they do what we want, we deem them "Freedom Fighters". When they put their own country's interests over OUR interests, we deem them "terrorist militant extremists". In America, we need to stop being so trigger happy and biased and start becoming more educated and tolerant.
No one is implying that. What people are saying is that attacking people on the basis of religion is evil enough but at least make sure the people you're attacking of that religion first.
What?? Why in the world would one make ANY kind of condoning statements regarding the killing of ANY religious group? How about we not target religious groups at all. It's just flat out irrational to deem a religious group or any group in it's entirety as any one specific thing anyways.
has absolutely no bearing.....i mean really 14 years ago? and NO combat, but he did get a DD. this only serves as sensationalism and is extremely detrimental the the US military.
So who do you think taught him how to use a gun like he did?
No stinking turbans please, thanks. And yes they do stink. I of course don't advocate killing, but how would you like your community to be filled with them?
Wouldn't bother me at all...but then, I'm comfortable anywhere in the world.
Spend much time smelling turbans, do you?
AB 1981
I'm sure you aren't just against the smell of turbins...I bet you don't like the smelll of blacks, hispanics, jews or anyone or anything else that isn't like you!
I bet you mantra in life is the only sh*t that doesn't stink is your own!
I'd worry more about my community being filled with people like you.
AB-1981, anything else you're smelling besides turbans?
wouldn't bother me sense I respect humanity and cultural differences....living in america must be rough for a bigot
There are people everywhere who are disturbed, unhappy, and aware they are losers. If sufficiently aggravated, they will kill anyone who is not them (see: Aurora, Oklahoma City, etc.). Color, religion, really doesn't matter. Unsettled minds will take to shooting their boss, or their co-workers, or throw acid on a woman they can't have. The moral compass breaks. It has always been thus.
We're not that far removed from the chimps. We just have more advanced weapons.
They are definitely not Taliban... LOADED with cash sure, but not Taliban.
Unfortunately however they are living among a sea of angry backwards thinking individuals who don't have the education to know the difference. Seems to me that hate begets hate... and we're all swimming in it.
Mass shootings are ramping up here in the States again, yet another cycle in our culture. And as always the lesson is simple, you can't control others around you but you can control and protect yourself.
Exercise your civic duty folks... in this country that is our right.
Foster an atmosphere of hate and intolerance, throw in a measure of hopelessness, and this is the inevitable result. As long as we allow the media to guide us down the path of divisiveness in quest of more clicks it will continue to get worse.
AB-1981
You truly are an ignorant @!$%#. People like you are the reason this world is so @!$%#ed up.
Nanette-1534512, you confuse me with a fundamentalist religious nut. I believe in "live and let live". Unfortunately for you, I am the only one here who proposed a simple and effective solution to the problem of ending violence against Sikhs. The beard+turban is really very unnecessary, and it makes them desirable targets. Would you go out wearing gold chains and expect to not be mugged? Of course not. Or would you get some sense instead and not be flashy?
Religion is the main problem here.
Nanette -
Perfectly timed. Thank you for making my point so succinctly.
The irony here is that the founder of the Sikh religion specifically choose the turban as a counterpoint to the muslims who were oppressing and persecuting his followers....
The idea is that dress should not be monopolized by a particular religion.
See
Apparently someone said, we have to be careful how we dress, so we do not get shot ?/
Oh well this is America the land of the free...actually no you cannot have freedom without cutlure and when you allow the freedom to own guns for criminals who aim to destroy the world because they have mental problems no one has freedom.
We do have a culture of death and people do hate themselves...being American does not feel so special anymore with these lunatic firing on innocent people...are they crazy or just cultivated as children of a racist race of white people who think they are special and own the country.
many sick people in this country have to kill to feel alive, they are dead people walking with no love or connection to anyone or anything that has meaning
If you are God's children than act like that and let go of hate and begin to have empathy..
Nice talk, Nanette...clean up your own house before condemning anyone else. You have a dirty mouth- not exactly attractive nor intelligent.
hell she was only telling the truth