Seriously, what would we do without msnbc to tell us what we already know [?].

opps, I mean NBCnews.

I don't think you recognize the significance if he is indeed determined to be mentally insane/on a psychotic break. This could set up the defense for the insanity defense and acquit him of murder charges.

Here comes the (non) justice system's usual lawyer bulls**t. This bazztard was sane enough to carefully plan and carry out this massacre.....in front of dozens of eyewitnesses. He should have been executed a week ago. Instead, he now has become a celebrity, and a role model for other nut cases.

Aurora shooting suspect James Holmes mentally ill

Lets vote, is this fact of fiction ?

Yet he had the capacity to order the weapons and munitions, dress in full armor, and booby trap his apartment.

Oh, and he was studying neuroscience, so he has a very firm grasp on what is considered "mentally ill".

Now the surviving victims and those that lost loved ones get years of seeing this guy in the news.. and we get to foot the bill.

@Howard,

If a person is "acquited" of murder by reason of insanity, he doesn't just walk out the door --- EVER! He is immediately committed to a "secure facility for the criminally insane." These facilities are habitually underfunded and understaffed in every state in the country. So they "medicate" the "patients" with strong antipsychotics (which have truly horrendous side effects) to keep them docile. They are typically kept in solitary confinement with only very limited visitation. They stay there until they die. Few survive into their 50's because of the combined effects of poor food (baloney sandwitches and cherry kool-ade are popular), no exercise, and the effects of medications. It is a life sentence under the most horrendous conditions you can imagine.

That's why the Giffords shooter wants to go to prison for life as a "sane" person. You are treated a great deal better and are apt to live a lot longer.

The idea that somehow an insanity plea bets you anything good is pure myth.

Chris,

Except that when you are deemed mentally fit, you get to walk, as you were "not guilty".

Like the shooter in Arizona, they'll put this guy in a prison hospital, and fill him with enough psychotropic drugs that he understands what he did, admits to it and can then plead guilty and spend the rest of his life in prison. We'll pay for it but at least he be off the streets. Of course many people complaining about the use of their tax dollars are just fine with flushing them down the toilet in the Middle East.

Meanwhile the usual idiots sign on to NBC.com to let us know what they think about NBC.com and frankly we don't give a rat's ass about their opinion. They must be lonely with nobody to listen to their drivel about NBC.com.

No @!$%#..... No one in their right mind would ever do such a thing..... It still does not remove the fact the Capital Punishment Is Justified.......

There is no way that you will ever convince me that this guy is insane in any legal sense of the word. the amount of long range, detailed planning that went into this attack clearly demonstrates that this guy knew exactly what he was doing. The fact that he bought his weapons from multiple locations and also amassed the ammunition used from multiple sources shows a consciousness that what he was doing was wrong and that he as attempting to avoid detection. These actions clearly demonstrate that he is not legally insane. In addition, he exhibited a clear consciousness of guilt immediately following the attack and knew full well why he was being arrested. This guy was in a graduate neuroscience program, he knows full well what symptoms and actions to fake to pretend to be insane. I hope that the judge and district attorney handling this case do no fall for this nonsense, this guy is completely sane in a legal sense and is just playing crazy to try and get away with what he has done. I guarantee that if he is rules not guilty by reason of insanity he will miraculously become sane again in a year or two and start petitioning to be released back into society. The only thing this guy deserves is the same bullet in the head that he used to kill those people in the theater.

@SactoJD,

It never happens. Every state and the federal system all have mechanisms that prevent that from happening. No one every walks from an involuntary committment to a secure facility for the criminally insane. There is an exception and it is only very recent. Several states (including the one where I live) are currently releasing some of these peope into the community as a cost-saving initiative. This is only beginning and the community is up in arms about it.

A good example is John Hinckley who shot Reagan, Brady and two Secret Service men. If he had been convicted of four counts of attempted murder, sentenced under the existing federal guidelines at the time, he would have been out of prison in 1996 (and the federal system does not allow parole.) But, because he was acquited because of insanity, he is still a prisoner, though is apparently getting some day furloughs at 57. He will spend the rest of his life, or until he is aged and infirm, inside St. Elizabeth's.

In 1984 the Congress passed the Insanity Defense Reform Act which makes it virtually impossible for a person to successfully make an insanity defense in the federal system. No person has been successful in federal courts since that time as "not guilty by reason of insanity."

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Correction: Aurora Shooter CLAIMS to be Mentally Ill.

It's the standard defense of the indefensible. He took two months to plan it, set explosives in his home and left the door ajar while playing loud music hoping someone would come in and get blown up while he was busy shooting people. Pretty hard for an attorney to defend that so they're going for insanity. His bug-eye move at the arraignment was just the beginning of the charade.

When is criminal insanity acceptable .... I would say walking into a theater and mowing down Innocent people is not!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hang the MF ..........

It happens. How do I know this? My grandfather was a paranoid schizophrenic and shot his 10 year old son and killed him. He turned the gun on himself but it jammed. My aunt found him in the basement. He was found to be a paranoid schizophrenic and was committed to a State Mental institution. He was there for 20 years. He was then released. My father had put a restraining order on him so he could not have contact with my sister or I or my mother. He lived in several states and would occasionally show up. He died 7 years ago and never spent a day in jail for his crime. I refused to see him or let my son see him due to his crime. You take a life (no matter what your mental state) you should either be executed yourself or jailed for life. In cases that are so cut and dry with witnesses and a confession I have no idea why we even mess around with it. I have no doubt that this guy knew what he was doing, planned, executed his plan and then decided that he could get away with it because he has the knowledge HOW to get away with it. Each state is different, each crime is different however, those families lives that lost loved ones will never be the same. In fact, it may cause them to become depressed or have a mental disorder. It happens, don't kid yourself.

Duh. Anyone who commits a mass shooting or any shooting at all is mentally ill.

This guy meticlulously planned this, so he knew full well what he was doing and why he was doing it. Burn him and ambulance chasing lawyer with him.

We already know he's nuts and we don't give a damn, the question now should be; do we shoot, hang or draw and quarter the sick SOB.......

My vote is draw and quarter him, 1/8" per hour.

Ummm--what was their first clue? Wow those attorneys are right on top of things, aren't they!

He's certainly abnormal. He'd have to be to do what he did. But legally insane? No more than Crazy Eddie. Only his prices were insane. Eddie Antar went to prison for financial fraud.

As to the disclosure motions: people confuse the public's "right to know"--very limited--with the constitutional guarantee to the accused of a public trial. Criminal defendant can waive that right, agree to a closed--but not secret--trial with the public kept out.

But I don't see what more investigating there is to be done.

Being mentally ill and able to meticulously plan something -- those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Just because you hear voices telling you that you're the Joker or whatever, doesn't make you not able to plan.

I had a relative with schizophrenia who was in a nursing home. When that relative decided that the solution to everything that had gone wrong in life was to leave the nursing home, and go to a place in the next state over, this relative carefully saved up money until there was enough for cab fare to the station, then a greyhound bus to this other place. Didn't tell any of us, either, kept it a secret the whole time. Once there, happiness did not ensue, and this relative eventually died there, listening to the voices to the last and creating a wall of paper and clippings in the ratty motel room so dense, there was only a tiny trail to the door. It was a tragedy -- a really intelligent person, but with a mind that was overthrown with madness. Still capable of planning, though, but for irrational ends.

Chris,

In your false assertion, we would be never stop building facilities for these folks if they never get out.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

@ Never Stop #1.4

A psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath...whether it is manifest with automatic weapons or credit default swaps.

You do realize that this was only a result of Liberal Democrats messing about in the home loan market, don't you?

Standard verbiage across state laws:

"The Court may discharge a mentally ill or addicted defendant from the court’s period of

jurisdiction prior to the expiration of the period specified only when the Court finds that the

person is no longer mentally ill or addicted and that the person is no longer a danger to self

or others...."

Look it up Chris.. it's easy to do.

DRK has it right about the ability of someone who is legally insane to be able to meticulously plan a crime such as this. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Schizophrenics have the ability to follow instructions, perform complicated tasks which require planning. The ability to hold down a job, or go to graduate school and perform at a high level academically. Schizophrenics are often quite brilliant.

It's the thought processes which drive their desire to perform these kinds of tasks which is at issue here. The voices, the hallucinations, the distorted thinking processes which make the illogical seem logical. None of us understand because sane cannot comprehend the true power of a mental illness as horrible as schizophrenia.

It's funny, the differences between the Sikh shooting and this one. People understand (and sometimes *almost* empathize with) hate, but they don't understand (or empathize with) mental illness.

Actually, if any of you are familiar with the movie Princess Bride, watch the Wesley's "to the pain" speech again. This site won't let me post a link, but it's on You Tube. Just type in "princess bride to the pain." THAT is what they should do to him. Wesley got it right. If you kill him, he gets off too easy.

Did anyone expect anything else. I still say he's faking it. There are videos of children fighting falling asleep that look exactly like what he's been pulling in court. This entire affair was planned out to the minute. He knows exactly what he did and has no remorse in the least. He's following his game plan and the defense is going right along with him.

This guy is toying with the authorities. How can be "mentally ill" if he was able to wire his apartment with bombs, etc.

He is just trying to get away. Remember that he was studying human behavior.

Well, if he's not insane (and I am on the fence on this one) I'd seriously like to know what his reason is for doing this. I mean, if he did it to send a message, then he didn't communicate that message very clearly. He may have done it to gain fame, but why would a sane person jeopardize everything in their own life and kill that many other people for fame? The sad part is we will probably never know why he did it, and at this point, it won't make much difference if we do find out. Those people will still be dead, the other people present will still be traumatized for the rest of their days, and family and friends will continue to suffer. Still, it makes one wonder.

let keep airing all of this crap so some more insane people can buy guns and shoot more people standing on the street.As long as they keep putting this stuff on the news they are going to keep doing it!!!!

It's just fascinating how many psychiatrists we have here who have already reviewed Mr Jokers file and judged him to be mentally sound. Thank you, doctors. Thank you for clearing all this confusion up. I guess he's sane and we don't need to pursue this line of thought any further.

DRK-1183578

Being mentally ill and able to meticulously plan something -- those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Just because you hear voices telling you that you're the Joker or whatever, doesn't make you not able to plan.

I had a relative with schizophrenia who was in a nursing home. When that relative decided that the solution to everything that had gone wrong in life was to leave the nursing home, and go to a place in the next state over, this relative carefully saved up money until there was enough for cab fare to the station, then a greyhound bus to this other place. Didn't tell any of us, either, kept it a secret the whole time. Once there, happiness did not ensue, and this relative eventually died there, listening to the voices to the last and creating a wall of paper and clippings in the ratty motel room so dense, there was only a tiny trail to the door. It was a tragedy -- a really intelligent person, but with a mind that was overthrown with madness. Still capable of planning, though, but for irrational ends.

That's sad about your relative. The thing is, the only he hurt was himself. But what if his mental illness made him a threat to others and he carried out that threat? It would then be proven that he is a deadly threat, and the only thing that could be done to protect others would be to kill him (I'll be blunt - call it execute, eliminate, liquidate, whatever, it's all killing).

I don't think that Batman movie killer was insane, mentally ill, or whatever anyone wants to call it. I believe he's just plain evil, and is using that mental illness schtick to keep from being offed. But let's say for the sake of argument he is mentally ill. He still must be killed. He's a proven threat and to save the lives of others, he must be offed. It would be the same for your relative if he meticulously planned the murder of others. He would be proven a threat and would have to be killed.

just put a bullet between his eyes,and save the victims the aguish&pain of a trial and the taxpayers a fortune !!!!!

Seems to me that people on here are using "mentally ill" and "insane" interchangeably, they are not.

Being "mentally ill" and being "legally insane" are two different things. A mental illness is a medical diagnosis. Axis I Dx, more acute (usually treatable) Axis II, more lifelong (not so treatable). Being "insane" is a legal term that means the person could not distinguish between right and wrong at the time of the act. Being mentally ill does not qualify a person as insane, even a person with paranoid schizophrenia is not automatically insane.

Do I think he was mentally ill...probably, was he insane...probably not, there was too much time and too much planning to be insane. (Yes, that's an opinion, It's not like I have all the info to accurately make a judgement) Of course technically that's a judge's call and not a psychiatrist's.

Sane.......insane..............mentally ill.............who cares. Put him in a chamber and release the compressed liquid chlorine and forget about him.

Mabe the thought that he had to choose between Obama or Romney? And Ron Paul was considered wacky with all that anti war talk?

Mental illness or incapacity only works as a defense if you can afford a legal team which has sufficient connections to make it work. Don't believe me? Ask anyone who's been on the Texas death row....oh, yeah...you can't.

I do believe that even a du Pont and a Kennedy (Skakel) were unable to completely evade conviction, although their family connections and legal teams did buy them a great deal of time as free men. This would-be clown (no pun intended) hasn't got a prayer.

How do these sane people really know how the insane think. Because if they do think, they can plan and plan well. Holmes was smart enough to plan and carry out a successful attack being insane.

This crazy creep better start planning how he's going to stay alive, inprison or a mental hospital as I'm sure there will be plenty of folks after him wherever he's sent. I won't shed a single tear if somebody takes him out of the worlds misery. He has about as much of a chance as Dahlmer did. Nobody likes psycho's who kill kids especially for no damn reason.

Honestly, who gives a rats as- if he is insane, 15 years old, abused or sexually confused? WHat exactly does that have to do with guilt. We need to stop trying to find excuses for every freak in the neighborhood and start to thin the herd.

Take him out back, bend him over and shoot him in the back of the head... A $.25 bullet and justice is served. As our make believe liberal justice system is today, we will end up spending millions on this mistake of nature... good for the lawyers and "professional witnesses" and bad for all of us taxpayers.

Why is it nature will shove a half baked mistake out of the nest and we provide our species special protections... Kill the bastard and anyone who tries to save him. We will all be better off.

Hmmm it seems that half the people here are Doctors and have already diagnosed him as sane without even talking to him and the other half are just, if not more, as barbaric as the shooter.

"Why is it nature will shove a half baked mistake out of the nest and we provide our species special protections... Kill the bastard and anyone who tries to save him. We will all be better off."

You sound like a pretty violet person yourself. Should we kill you before you do something bad?

What's with everyone wanting to take our justice system back the the 6th century?

No sane person does this. But there is a legal definition The Houston mom who drowned her five kids knew she was doing wrong - she's the one who called the police. But the illness - postpartum psychosis - in her head told her that she was saving her children's souls from the devil. By the legal definition of insanity she was sane because she knew right from wrong. Her conviction was later overturned. If her husband hadn't been the male version of Nadya Sulemon...... When doctors told her after her fourth child she couldn't give birth to more children without incurring severe psychosis, he threatened to go the surrogate route - well, SORTA the surrogate route - he was going to knock up someone else. Proof that she was already mentally ill that she stayed with that douchebag after that, much less had another kid by him. I dont know if she'll ever live outside of a mental hospital, but once she was arrested and they were able to give her the right meds and right therapy and get her AWAY from her husband, she knew pretty early on what she had done, and she'll have to live with that for the rest of her life. And then you look at Holmes - as horrible as a crime as Yates committed there was at least some warped sense of good intent. What was Holmes trying to accomplish?

I have a theory about that. He wanted to be stopped. he told his shrink everything. He sent letters and plans and diagrams to the university. Somehow, whether through laziness or just a slow summer school mail system, this info didnt get into the right hands. I bet he did all of this to get attention - like someone who threatens to jump off of a busy bridge in the middle of the day. And when no one came running to him begging him to stop, he had to follow through with it. Or he may have faked it and is hoping some gullible juror will believe his sob story. I'm not an expert, I'm not a psychiatrist. But you don't have to be one to know that there is nothing about any of this that is going to be alright or just - especially for the victims and their families.

And if you're going to get on here and go all Tom Cruise and argue that PPD doesn't exist - go ahead. I don't troll these boards to argue with people or to see if anyone liked what I said. I just voice my opinions and let it go. If you want to bait an anonymous person on the internet into an arguement, you're probably used to arguing with yourself. I won't be reading it. Peace out.

I have a suggestion: Accept his guilty plea (Guilty, but innocent by reason of diminished capacity/insanity. In other words, he's guilty, but he's so nutty that he's legally not guilty. Translation: He did it. He's guilty. HOWEVER, he's so nutty that he can't be held legally responsible.) Have the judge tell him that "We'll accept your guilty plea. Now, we'll use your insanity plea to help in determining what we'll do with you." Then, commit him to a mental hospital until such time as he can be adjudged legally sane, that he has a legal appreciation of what he did, why he should not have done it, what the consequences are of his actions, and the penalties are for his actions; in other words, until he is legally sane. At that time, put him into the penal system for whatever sentence the court may impose. Hopefully, it will be the maximum possible sentence: the Death penalty, to be delivered switftly and without mercy.

I don't feel that your mental state at the time of a comission of a crime should have much of a bearing on your guilt. If you did something than you did it and you need to accept responsibility. The only exception in my book is if you are covertly drugged and coerced into doing something.

Charles Whitman had to conduct complex planning and preparation. Turned out he had a grapefruit sized brain tumor. You can't deny that. The ability to plan is not a determination of sanity.

Will somebody dye the Jokers hair Green for him?

I do not agree with this plea. I think he needs to be DEALT with permanently. Having all the time to plan and set up the explosives and he never once thought, this might not be right. There is too much evidence against him to be mentally ill.

Another thought.....Perhaps he's perfectly sane, and faking. He was a neuroscience major, and had a PhD, according to a previous report. If that's the case, could he be testing his ability to game the system? We knew a gal, that studied PTSD, and then was able to use what she studied, to get on SSDI. She succeeded, because she knew all the things to say and do. Could this guy have always had an interest in "what would it be like to kill?" If so, did he use his recent studies to formulate a plan to get away with murder?

i really do not care if the POS is sane, insane, suffering from some mental illness or whatever, his victims are dead and mangled......why? why does he get to live and they are dead? give him his fair trail , no appeal, with the insanity plea a non issue, and then take him out back and stand him against a wall and execute him. this is what he deserves no more no less. why does anybody want to have any compassion on a cold blooded premeditated murderer? give him the same mercy he showed his victims...................none.......

Full body armor, he'd been buying his guns over a few month period, he was willing to gun down unarmed civilians, but not willing to risk his life in a gun-fight against police. That shows he has some bit of sanity when it comes to risking his own life! Now it's time to send a billion bolts of electricity through his body and see how that armor fairs!

...shooting spree in an Aurora, Colo., theater that killed 12 people and injured 58 others.

Holmes is charged with 142 criminal counts, including 24 counts of first-degree murder...

Not defending the guy in any way, shape or form, I'm genuinely curious how he is charged with 24 counts of first degree murder for killing 12 people.

Those who have posted since my last posting (#1.48) have, for the most part, supported what I suggested. If he tries to plead insanity/diminished capacity, whatever, put him into a nut house for treatment until he is legally sane. At that time, let him endure whatever is the greatest penalty Colorado can asses for however many colunts of first-degree murder he pled guilty to. Hang him! Fry him! Juice him! Kill him! And yes, I hope he suffers through it all.

Prosecuters are charging him twice foreach count of murder- as a back-up plan if the defense is successful with the insanity plea. Charge one- "murder with deliberation" Charge two- "Extreme indifference to the value of human life". Its basically to give the jury different "avenues" towards a death Penalty sentance under Colorado State Law. SOURCE: US News-"Prosecutors pursue two-track strategy against James Holmes in Colorado massacre"

Prosecutors knew this was coming thats why they went with double charges- For people calling out Holmes' defenders - seriously/?? Theyre just doing their jobs as PUBLIC DEFENDERS. They really have no choice in the matter-Poor Bastards at that morning meeting probably had their name drawn out of a hat. And for them not to try to "win the case"- would be illegal and unethical.

I have to agree with Audra Ann above. Can you imagine being the person that has to get this guy off of all of those murders and attempted murders. Not a very popular person right now - but the law is the law and even this evil monster is entitled to a defence. And we may all want to draw straws to see who gets to shoot him in the head or whatever all the other ways people suggested but everyone knows it isnt possible. There is a process and we have to abide with it - so all this talk about killing him is a waste because we dont live back in the days when executions were carried out by many different methods. I will agree that he is definitely mentally ill but as far as being insane - I really dont think so. He knew at the time when he was in full armor so as not to get killed himself and as he was sending of rounds of ammunition as fast as the automatic weapon would send them - he knew he was killing people. And he came there with tear gas which he first dispersed knowing the people would not be able to see or breath well with it before he began the shooting. But he obviously went there to kill people - that he knew he was doing. When his gun jammed he grabbed another one. And now they have him heavily drugged with side effects like you are seeing in court. When they take meds for his kind of mental illness they become zombies and most of the time dont know what planet they are on - but they dont hear the voices. But notice that unlike Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman who both killed people there is no high priced attorney running to this guy's defence pro bono like they got because the publicity that they so search for in doing this would have a negative effect on their lives. Anthony got off with the murder and Zimmerman probably will too but I really doubt this guy will ever see the light of day again. Beyond being mentally ill or criminally insane this guy is pure evil. And all I care about is that he never sees a minute of light ever again - off the street - gone!!! Doesnt matter how they do it.

He planned, executed a mass murder then plans on pleading insanity. I mean it isn't like he studied mental illnesses and their symptoms for years....oh wait, yes he did! Yes, he is crazy.... crazy like a fox! He thinks he has commited the perfect crime and I'm sure he has plans to profit from it as well.

Does that mean that Holmes is going to get off the "Wrap" for the Massacre?

That is how crazy these Criminal Defense Attorneys are----they really believe it!

What is there to gain by pleading Insanity----Taxpayers paying for his "hotel" and special Security to keep him from getting killed in jail---the end for him will be the same as for the people who innocently died by his guns.

Marchant ^^^ - It's his Public Defenders JOB to try to win the case (not guilty by reason of insanity) I honestly don't think they "believe" it. It's the only option they feasably have in the defense of their client. I'm not saying it's right or fair. It is what it is because in this country, you are entitled to legal defense (and in this case YES it's paid for with tax payer dollars).Those PD's took an oath to tirelessly defend their clients to the best of their ability for the best possible outcome. In all honesty If they were to go all sheister and not do their jobs 1. they could lose their jobs and be disbarred 2. A mistrial could be filed by Holmes on the basis that his Attorneys did not properly represent him, which would lead to more tax payers $$ going towards this case. It's a s**t situation but it just has to run it's course.

Folks, this guy has had issues long before the massacre. His professors and colleagues have hinted that something wasn't 'right' about him. Something began to ravel for him as he was withdrawing from the neuroscience program (AFTER doing poorly on an oral exam). You DON'T get into a neuroscience program without having done a lot of things right along the way as a student, and having the ability to think and communicate your thoughts. People aren't always 'mentally ill' from birth. Things happen along the way. He was known long ago as nice, but reserved. That should have been a warning sign.

What is at issue here isn't that he is sane or not, as clearly no sane person would do what he did, it is did he know what he was doing was wrong, and so far I have seen nothing to indicate he did not know what he was doing was wrong. He planned this out, he booby-trapped his apartment to kill police (and his neighbors), he had multiple guns with more rounds than most service people carry into battle... This shows he knew what he was doing, knew it was wrong, and did it anyway. Legally, he should be held accountable for those actions, and whatever the punishment is, it is - end of story.

Shame on NBC for the headline though, as being mentally ill does not mean you will go out and do such horrible things. I've suffered from anxiety induced depression since I was a teen, and I'd never even think of owning a gun, much less using it on any living being, especially my fellow human brothers and sisters. Technically I am mentally ill, but I am also sane. His lawyers are trying to claim he is insane under the law, not that he is mentally ill. We know he suffers a mental illness as he was being treated for it (obviously very poorly treated as the Dr didn't catch any warning signs), but all the evidence released shows he is intelligent, and had a plan. Frankly, I'd be surprised if his playing up his illness wasn't part of his plan.

He's intelligent enough to know if he acts insane, he could get away with what he did by being sent to a mental hospital where he can, and likely will, one day get out. So mentally ill, yes. Sane, as defined by the criminal justice system, yes too. Go directly to jail and never get out (I'm not a proponent of the death penalty as it isn't a deterrent, nor does it bring back those the murderer killed. Better he/she rots away in prison for the rest of their lives. Only I do think they should pay for their "room and board" by working every day, and their "wages" going to pay for their incarceration costs. Prison is a punishment, not a reform method)

They make a place for mentally ill people who commit mass murder. It's called prison.

Is that a clinical diagnosis, or just pretty much what everyone else already knows?

Take him to Yellowstone and dip him in a geyser a few times, then feed the remains to the bears.

Panic Moon, #1.47- Nice post! (for whatever the reason/s in my mind, including, if not most especially, your obvious willingness to postulate theories, beyond "He's guilty until impossibly proven innocent by a 'Defense' team that just wants to win!") I think this one is "TOTALLY" on Society; and BEGIN, again, with the syphoning "misinterpretation-of-convenience" Circus Media aspect of this article that claims that [the Public's right to know] is not being satisfied to "Cognitive" Behavior Modification (also "conveniently" minus the "Cognitive") to serious-serious questioning on my part, as part of the Public, anyway, how the Prosecution is going to muster around a blatantly, illegally biased "double jeopardy" standard when anyway you slice and dice it 12 People murdered does not (cannot) equal 24 People murdered. There is no such thing as concurrency of an actual, physical, tangible Human body. period (except, of course, in this typical-of-these-days highlighted "Prosecutorial" Behavior Modification, again, less the "Cognitive", which has been eradicated and obviously replaced with "Presto-Change-O ~ Because we say-so! (and here are the 12 other "tangible" bodies we're pulling out of the hat?) This one, "this case", I believe is SOooooo "all on Society", in every aspect; an also including, if not also beginning with not a "two-party" Political System as problematic as much as a 2 Branch Government instead of 3. "Judicial" as a Branch of Government is to the totality of "Government" as "Cognitive" is to the totality of "Behavior Modification". And "prove-able".

Can't wait to see what the latest genetically Engineered PEEP (that would be color-dyed-marshmallow) from the ACLU on "Likes" , from a headline that I just saw, is trying to render and yield!!! And whom for!

The Public's RIGHT to know is satisfied by the presentation "of facts", not inuendo, in "Open Court", is it not? Hey, Media- Pony-up, hire some real "Reporters" and "Investigative" Journalists and satisfy the Public's "REAL" RIGHT to know the difference between Fact and "unsupported, theorizing OPINION" and "INNUENDO".

Just flog him 50 times, drawing blood profusely, with alcohol liberally splashed in the wounds, every second day until he stops breathing. Televise it so other potential demons out there can see what is in store for them!

Not buying the schizoid defense theory. He had his stuff together when he was planning all of this killing, knew just what he was doing by booby trapping his apartment, and all of a sudden, he has mental illness that caused him to do this. No. Delusional perhaps, but then that all seemed to happen after his arrest and arraignment. First degree murder is the only thing that I feel he should be tried on. He planned every little thing, every detail.....

This guy is pitiful, shoot him now! Constantly using this excuse is a crutch that let's people get away with murder .... Why drag this out anymore; just get rid of him.

Diminished capacity is as over used an ADD diagnosis. In all seriousness does anyone think he has full functioning faculties? He obviously has some mental stability issues, unless I'm the only guy that thinks it's abnormal to storm a theatre taking random lives. What will be impossibly difficult for his defense to prove is that he had no understanding of what he was doing. Now I am not a psychologist but it's pretty obvious it took quite a bit of planning and preparation from Holmes to not only perform the attack but to booby trap his apartment as well. Mental instability? I say absolutely, YES. Diminished capacity to the point he didn't know what he was doing? C'MON, MAN!

the guy is nuts but not insane! as said in earlier posts..bought weapons and ammo over a period of time from different vendors, boobytrapped his apartment and left music on loud hoping some poor bastard would walk in and blow themself and the building up, surrendering without a fight because he was NOT ready to die for whatever cause he was doing this for.

IMHO punishment as follows...spread eagle him to a target...one bullet in each wrist, elbow, shoulder, ankle, knee and hip which equals one for each he killed. this part should be spread over a period of time so he can suffer a little for each dead victim, then strap a bomb to him and set the timer in his line of sight so he can watch it count down to end his life for the ones he maimed!

believe it or not i am not a violent person but this guy is dumb like a fox. he knew exactly what he was doing and now is hoping his charade will spare his life. i do, however, believe in punishment fitting the crime and carrying out that punishment fully with malice!

I say pray for this guy and pray that guys like this stop existing. His life isn't worth anything at this point. Pray for those that died. And let the court decide his fate because he has no fate at this point. Whether he dies or lives his life is over. He will never live within society again. That is most important and I am sure the justice system will see to that.

And while your thinking about all this get some mental health opportunities within this country that work to keep people like this from acting. Track some weapons vs mental health issues. This should never have happened in the first place. People need to seek help that is not available and all those in the menal health arena need to keep a close eye out for people that have problems.

Ask what happened with the doctors he was seeing. Where did it fail our society? What happened to the talk of data bases that keep up with health care and mental health issues? There is no doubt this person had problems long ago that should have been caught. Get some of our high technology working for this nation.

Mentally ill? Well you don't say?? No worries though I have just the thing to take care of that. Let me go over to the cabinet here and get it. Let's see extra strength, got that, one or two rounds of medicine, better go two, want to make sure we get this illness taken care with no doubts. Ok now let me just load it into my medicine dispenser. Whats that? Yup once I administer this you will be better before you even know it....

Ill or not this guy was not insane as to he didn't know what he was doing. He knew damn good and well. The POS is a poster boy for the death penalty. End of subject.

Furthermore I do hope this is a wake up call that helps to maybe get more ways for people with these issues to find help before they do go off the edge. Another reason we need national health care, whether or not the current system being put in place in the final answer, ehhh save that for another day, but you get the point.

One more time RIP to those lost, condolences to their families, and quick recovery for those wounded.

It is time

In most criminal jurisdictions, Legal insanity requires a degree of mental malfunctioning considered to be sufficient to relieve the accused of legal responsibility for the act committed. One can me mentally ill without being "Insane". Otherwise every person prescribed an anti-depressive would be unable to buy a house, drive a car or obtain a credit card.

IMO the fact that he had a therapist would indicate that he had som eself awareness that his thought processes may not be "normal". He knew enough to be aware that if he was caught he would be in trouble. If he had taken steps to stop himself and was failed... if during the months leading up to the shooting he had taken himself to an ER and told them what was happening for example, and the system failed him and dumped him back on the streets.... then I could give him a small amount of empathy for trying, maybe agree to have him hospitalized for the rest of his life. But I don't think that happened.

Honestly I would rather that be the case. I would rather not think that someone would be evil enough to do something like this for no reason. At least when it's hate related like 9-11 or the Sikh shooting, you can understand it even if it's horrible and sad. This was completely random and there seems to be no reason at all for it other than he wanted to watch them die.

Of course, one could also argue that most serial killers are "mentally ill" psychopaths. Does anyone think that Ted Bundy was sane?

God bless America, where crazy people can buy 6000 rounds of ammo,on-line, thanks to the criminals who run the NRA...the blood of the Aurora victims and the hundreds of thousands of other victims of pervasive gun madness in the USA is on the hands of anyone who belongs to or contributes to the NRA and its policy of madness.

five years ago. my sons European girlfriend wanted to buy fireworks for a birthday party in Hawaii, but was told that they can only se sold and used for New Years Eve in Hawaii *. "Starnge country, this America,...you can buy guns and ammunition anyday in a Walmart, but no fireworks.

Mr. Binkie....to the vast majority of us it does seem that anyone who commits a mass shooting is mentally ill. Unfortunately it is not true. Doctors and criminal experts who have studied serial killers have determined that only a very small percentage are truly mentally ill.

That's even scarier to me.

Liam, don't you and your fellow libtards ever get tired of blaming incidents like this on the NRA? You all have the simplemindedness of children. I'll bet you, your son, and his European girlfriend feel oh so superior to those who believe in the 2nd amendment.

Liam,

You have a lot of nerve (or more likely lack thereof) blaming me for the mass shooting in CO. 6000 round of ammo is nothing...it's a weekend of plinking. You obviously need an overbearing government to take care of your needs rather than exercise a little personal responsibility for your own actions. Last I checked, fireworks are not a protected right under the Constitution of the US. Using your twisted logic you should be lobbying to outlaw forks as they are the obvious reason for the overwhelming obesity rate in this Country. I've owned guns since I was old enough and have never shot anyone; or even committed a crime for that matter. You sound like a miserable creature that would have no chance at living free if not made and kept so through the exertions of better men than yourself.

Spider,

mentally ill does not mean he is retarded. There are many different forms of mental illness ranging from retardation to psycho-somatic breaks, to inability to tell right from wrong. Being smart does not exclude the possibility of being mentally ill. But at the same time mental illness should not apply to murder cases.

But at the same time mental illness should not apply to murder cases.

The reason mental illness is considered a mitigating factor for murder cases is because of diminished capacity to know right from wrong. In Andrea Yates' case, as an earlier commenter said, she killed her children because, in her mind, she was saving their souls. What good mother would not want to save her kids from Hell? She didn't want to do it, but she had to. People wanted to execute her for killing her children. Yet she had thought she was saving those kids. In a way, she is as much a victim of her illness as they were.

Many people with diseases such as schizophrenia have a condition called anosognosia. They have no insight that they are mentally ill. It's not just denial --it's more akin to stroke victims who lose half their field of vision, but don't really seem to understand that it's gone. To these schizophrenics, their delusions are reality, they themselves are not mentally ill, so they don't need treatment, and anyone who doesn't believe those delusions is himself deluded, or part of a conspiracy of deception.

http://www.xavieramador.com/files/Aviv,%20The%20New%20Yorker.pdf

I have no idea if Homes is mentally ill or not. But if he is, it is possible that his condition is much like Andrea Yates' condition was at the time of her homicidal behavior. Ultimately, she was judged to be not responsible for her actions; I doubt if she will ever be released, however. She is a danger to society. Perhaps a similar future awaits Holmes.

I don't think that by escaping the death penalty to live out his life in a state mental hospital or a prison will be a particularly kind fate.

DRK,

imo the motive for a murder does not matter. You are culpable for killing someone, even in self defense. The only mitigating factor should be sentencing. I am not saying murderers who are mentally unstable get the axe, more that they should always be found guilty for their actions but their sentences altered to reflect that they were mentally insane when they carried out the act.

The case you mentioned, the woman killing her kids to safe their souls. She should have been found guilty of murder but sentenced to a mental health facility instead of jail or death row. We should not have criminals able to walk from a murder conviction because of their illness. Since we consider murder to be our highest offense it should not be something you get a free ticket out of in any case.

Not everyone believes in hell, not everyone practices a religion either. To anyone on the jury or in the public that does not believe in those religious constructs her actions and her motives for those actions have no justification nor offer any kind of reasoning for why she did it.

All actions have consequences, part of being a human is taking responsibility for your actions even if you personally think that they are the correct actions. Just because she did think she was saving them does not make it so. Bin Laden though he was doing the right thing by destroying the World Trade Center, should we have given him a free pass as well (not really a free pass but you get what I mean I hope)? What about someone that is hallucinating that someone is attacking them and kills them when in fact they were not, how would the trial be conducted for this individual?

Actions are actions, just because someone kills someone else under the influence of a delusion does not mean that it was not murder. When you start giving verdicts based purely on motive we end up allowing people like the couple in CA that killed their daughter's pimp in cold blood to have a chance to walk with no conviction.

We should not allow insanity or mental illness pleas to remove the possibility of conviction for murder but they should have an affect on the sentencing if they are found guilty, that is all I am saying with the above wall of text/the part you quoted.

I am in agreement with you, actually. Sadly, we do not have a "guilty but insane" verdict in this country. What you have described is what has happened to Andrea Yates. She's in a low security state mental hospital now. If there is such a thing as a high security state mental hospital, it may be that that is where Holmes belongs. The main thing would be to remove him from society. I am not saying mentally ill people should not be tried, but I do think their mental state has to be taken into account on the sentencing side.

That said, while actions should have consequences, we do recognize that there are groups of people in this country who are just not responsible for their actions. Children are not held to the same standard because it is recognized that their ability to tell right from wrong is not developed. If a five year old kills someone, even if she does so deliberately, she is not sent to prison, but rather to intensive therapy. Mentally ill people are not children, but they, too, sometimes have impaired judgment.

Children as young as 14 have been tried as adults. If this guy is found not guilty by reason of insanity, he should never be determined to "be better" and released. Regardless of his mental state at the time, if he committed a heinous crime, he should be locked up forever.

lol you beat me to it by a minute.

fry him

Of course he could be termed "clinically insane". You or I could be, with the proper coaching.......It's really a non issue here. He was toally lucid, and able to carry this elaborate and sophisticated mission to fruition. Declare him guilty, put him on death row, and advise him he will be executed within 5 years. One night the warden and chaplin shpuld appear at his cell and say; "It's time, Mr. Holmes." Left him squirm every day for 5 years, not knowing when his number will be called. Now THAT'S punishment that should be meted out. Pure and simple.........................

Good plan there! However, he should be liberally flogged regularly, with plenty of alcohol splashed in the wounds to keep the germs out. Would not want him to become infected!

No s#!+ Sherlock...shocked isn't the word for it.

You could say anyone who shoots another person for no reason is mentally ill.

You could say anyone who rapes another person is mentally ill.

You could say anyone who molests children is mentally ill.

You could go on and on but is that a defense? Lock him up and throw away the key. It would be cheaper than going for the death penalty and dealing with all the appeals and make some very sleazy lawyer very rich. Not to mention a book deal which could mean millions more and movie rights to boot.

My mother was in the theater that this lunatic went crazy on. Two of the people she was with ended up in the hospital, one of them was just released only yesterday. My mother has been having to go to therapy everyday because of this. She is terrified to leave her house and any popping noise she freaks out thinking its a gun. I don't care if he is declared mentally ill, this a** hole should get the death penalty either way, 12 times if it were possible.

Yes you can. Numerous soldiers and airmen have done so. I once worked for the bombardier at Nagasaki, LtCol Kermit Behan. He was as sane as they come and had absolutely no misgivings or guilt from dropping the second atomic bomb.

We live in a society where some mass killing is okay and some is not. It makes it easy to see how a mentally ill person might have trouble determining the difference, especially in this country where the gun culture is so vocal and strident.

i completely beg to differ with you, sir. Sure dropping an atomic bomb, killing many people may be deemed horrible by some, or most, but that doesnt mean the man that did it was insane. This was a duty not a personal choice. This guy isnt crazy its quite obvious he is doing this for attention. why doesnt everyone take some time and read about this fool before stating pointless opinions that are OPINIONS and not FACTS. i have no idea how a person can perceive this "mass killing" to be deemed ok? jesus christ people.

In my opinion dropping a WMD on major cities should amount to a mass war crime, regardless of who is doing it or why. Tactical weapons are one thing but to use a strategic weapon on civilians is atrocious regardless of the outcome..

To accept such a sortie would be ethical suicide in my opinion. That's just me. I realise times were different and all sides were killing civilians , but that doesn't make vaporising cities OK... regardless of the outcome

This was a duty not a personal choice.

No. You always have a choice. He knew what he was doing and did it. That was a choice. Killing people does not make one insane...period.

A simple and concise explanation on the issues leading up the dropping of the atomic bomb

IMO, Truman made the right choice.

link got stripped... (Trying again)

wiki (dot) answers (dot) com/Q/Should_you_have_dropped_the_atomic_bomb

@Chris-749391

Right, I'm sure that the liberals who oppose the Japan bombings would have volunteered to be the first off the boat to invade Japan, right? Bunch of cowards.

Also, if you want to talk about mental disorder how about the moonbats who want to strip us of our right to bear arms and defend ourselves from both criminals and a tyrannical government?

Japan got what they deserved in WW2 and so did the Germans, including the bombing of Dresden. Both the Japanese and German citizens were overwhelmingly behind their leaders and what they were doing. The German and Japanese armies committed the most heinous atrocities known to man. There was no uprising of citizens to try and stop their leaders. They, and anyone else who might try and do the same thing in the future, needed to be taught the lesson that their country can be wiped off the face of the earth. The lesson learned in nuking Japan was probably the biggest reason there has never been a WW3.

Japan and Germany have been well behaved, model countries since WW2. They weren't that way historically before WW2.

I personally believe that what turned Germany and Japan from war-mongering states into docile allies isn't the bomb itself, it was the fact that they lost a majority of their adult male population.

Love of war, killing and death is a tradition propagated strictly along male lines, from one generation to the next.

Look at the Sikh shootings. I can guarantee you Mr. Page picked up his prejudice and willingness to kill from the men in his life. It may not have been his father, since he had family issues, but someone early on instilled that "hate is ok" message in him.

It's amazing how long a 'violence tradition' can run within a society. We have one here in the states. It's not looked on negatively because we haven't been over run and slaughtered in a war yet. When we lose a war, lose our entire male population, and have some other country writing the history books about us, I bet it will mention something about those "misbehaving, war mongering Americans".

I tell you what, I'll agree to you infringing on my constitutional right to buy a firearm when you agree for me to infringe on your right to vote by requiring ID in EVERY election done. Sound good?

Agreed x 1000! Legislatures must be slightly mentally ill themselves not to force a Mental Health Evaluation as a requirement of owning a lethal weapon! We should be making it HARDER to get a gun, not easier! And plenty of good, decent gun hobbyists will still be allowed to keep their weapons - owning a gun is a privilege and a huge responsibility at that.

Why is it easier for me or anybody else to get a gun then it is to get a drivers license? Makes no sense.

ViPeR-6546652

I tell you what, I'll agree to you infringing on my constitutional right to buy a firearm when you agree for me to infringe on your right to vote by requiring ID in EVERY election done. Sound good?

Umm, the Constitution states the importance of maintaining a militia, and "the right to bare arms." I seriously doubt The Framers meant, "Even bat$#it out of their F'ing mind persons shall be guaranteed access to armor-piercing mini-bazookas." So I understand why the paranoid-of-government-conspiracy crowd might get worried about who defines a "sanity" check, but really, you're going to advocate even the craziest mother-F'er on the planet should be guaranteed access to guns? Me thinks someone worries they won't pass.

I tell you what, I'll agree to you infringing on my constitutional right to buy a firearm when you agree for me to infringe on your right to vote by requiring ID in EVERY election done. Sound good?

Yes. If you're not mentally unstable then you would have nothing to worry about. If you ARE mentally unstable, then frankly I don't want you be able to legally buy or possess firearms. I own several rifles myself, partly because of people like this. The 2nd amendment was intended to keep a well regulated militia in place for national defense. It says as much and does not arbitrarily guarantee your right to bear arms. That said, the supreme court ruled that private ownership for private legal use was okay, and I support that decision. So since that decision was made to expand on the constitution, adequate controls also need to be implemented to make sure the mentally unstable and convicted felons can't get access to firearms too. I'm also in favor of voter ID laws. You have to show an ID to buy a pack of cigarettes but not to vote for president... That makes no sense to me.

Sully, you can make a fashion statement if you like. The rest of us will be keeping our right to bear arms, f'g deal with it.

Good to see you have no idea how the current laws work Sully. To be clear, I'm not advocating that every mentally ill individual, or every individual for that matter, should be allowed to buy guns. What I AM saying is that the 2nd amendment says I have the right to bear arms... extrapolating on that, that means I have the right to buy a gun without having to go through any hoops. All I'm saying is, I'll agree to go through those hoops, if we require the same of our voters come election day.

And, for the record, I don't know of anyone who can buy a "armor-piercing mini-bazooka".... but, if you could, and if someone had one in that theater, the idiot would be dead and we wouldn't be out all the money it will take to house him and then possibly execute him.

"What the hell are you talking about?"

I don't know if he's insane in the true legal sense. I think of him as crazy like a fox. He knew exactly what to do and how to do it without raising any alarms. Aside from being morally bankrupt, the best i can say is crazy like a fox.

It isn't just that they are out there. It is also that new ones are developing every day. It is well-established that psychosis is very prone to develop in late teens or early twenties. Perfectly normal kids just go apes++t for no apparent reason. The military is incredibly sensitive to this and routinely discharged people (including the Aurora shooter) for any continuing pattern of asocial behavior. Universities also are always on the watch for these people and try tio handle them as well as they can.

One problem is that people so discharged or who withdraw from college are not tracked as they try to enter society at large. A better job could be done of monitoring and helping them. But this is not likely in these days of medical cutbacks in states.

A lot of mental illness is treatable, and needs to be cared for with respect. But at some point, especially when they start to randomly KILL their fellow human beings, it's time to go. I'm for the Geneva Convention, much of Amnesty International's causes, etc., but this is like trying to make-nice with cancer. It might have been a nice part of you before, but once it starts eating you alive, it's got to go.

Very well put, Sully.

Thank the Gipper for that one.

Pathetic that he can be considered mentally ill enough to possible get out of this, but all together enough to pre meditate everything that he did, set everything up to kill more, in his apartment, and have the mind set to tell police about where things were waiting for them, but NOW he is mentally ill........right!!

I really don't care if he was whacked out of his mind, and thought he was Jesus on Jupiter at the time, if you show a propensity to do this kind of damage to the rest of society, I think it's a safe argument that society shouldn't gamble on having you around anymore.

Sorry, Australia has banned private ownership of most weapons. And since then their violent crime has skyrocketed. Proving once again that gun control only effects the law abiding.

A better idea would be to stop electing rich, entitlement minded career politicians that create problems just so they can lobby against them and only care about their own well being. Then get some people in there that will actually take on the problems in this Country without slinging mud at everyone that doesn't walk lock step with them.

You have it wrong Watergy - every country in the world with strict gun controls has a far lower violent crime rate than the USA. More guns equals more violence, no question about it.

Lawyers will protect their client as long as our money is available. Judges need lawyers to extend the length of the trial and pick-up their lunch bill at the club.

People have already come out of the woodwork saying this guy had gone insane long before he killed anyone.

Crazy + easy access to automatic rifles = tragedy.

to clear up some of the comments....Mentally ill and mentally incompetent are completely different. Hitler was a psychopath, sociopath and was able to organize genocide, buy weapons, and command a country. Insanity doesn't mean that you can't be calculating and exact, it simply means that the person is not rational in any normal fashion. Reguardless though, I say fry em!

T Overseas.....why don't you ponder how our legal system works...his lawyer gets no wage from him...he has a court appointed attorney who has little to no choice in the matter. That lawyer must perform to the best of his abilities to defend his client....even if he detests him. Most lawyers are good people....the haters seem to be the folks who came out on the losing end of a legal case.

Oh..and really...stop putting on airs...you don't look intelligent and sophisticated....you look like a pompous arse.

There is no way he'll get the death penalty. He didn't steal from the federal government or kill muslims..

this is the american system..racist, if the killer will be black or hispanic, no body will be interested in proven that the guy is mentally ill, just they will put him to death in death row

Toneil - you sir are a moron. What does this have to do with racism? I say shoot the criminals - black, white, red, brown or yellow. Get a firmer grasp on the English language before any future posts. Moron.

Em Bradt, true enough about right or wrong, but there is more to it than just that. If he ACTUALLY believed he was the joker at the time of this crime due to illness/psychosis and that his planning was based on this delusion then he is mentally insane because he would be unable to determine right from wrong due to his compromised state of mind. You also need to show that he had the ability to form intent at the time of the action. If he were so compromised as to believe he actually was the joker then he could not have formed intent either. Do you remember the Yates lady from Texas? She was the lady that drowned her kids in the tub. A horrific crime. She was found not guilty by reason of mental defect because she actually believed she was talking to God and that God told her to kill her kids so they would be in a better place at the time of her crime. Her family knew she was sick and they had planned to never leave her alone with the kids. Her husband left one day late for work. The mother-in-law was on the way to their house but had not arrived. Yates seized those few seconds and killed her kids. And after she called the police and said, " I killed my kids." Planning and a confession and still in her second trial she was found not guilty by reason of mental defect.