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Denis Poroy / AP file
A sign offers military financing at a used car lot in Oceanside, Calif. on Oct. 12, 2006. The lot is one of many businesses in downtown Oceanside that offer credit to Marines from nearby Camp Pendleton.
Nearly 36,000 active-military members who hold security clearances have recently sought urgent financial advice or aid because heavy debts and delinquent bills threatened to void their classified status, according to a nonprofit that helps troops and veterans solve money problems.
“You can lose that security clearance if you have credit or debt issues,” said John E. Pickens III, executive director of VeteransPlus. “If you lose that clearance, you can become un-promotable or you can be taken from your assignment. And, ultimately, you can even receive a bad-conduct discharge.
“If you’re going to be entrusted with national security,” he added, “the military figures you’ve got to at least be able to pay your bills on time.”
Pickens’ nonprofit has offered financial counseling to more than 150,000 current and former service members. Among that crowd of clients, more than half are active duty, National Guard members or reservists. And out of that portion, he said, 46 percent have expressed worries about their security clearances.
Approximately half of America's 2.4 million active duty, National Guard and reserve troops hold some level of security clearance, said Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. James Gregory. Most of those 1.19 million service members possess the second-highest security rating - "secret" - while the next largest portion hold a higher status: TS/SCI, (Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information), he added. The sensitive nature of certain military jobs typically dictate the security classifications.
“All military members know they are required by the Uniform Code of Military Justice to pay their debts,” Pickens said. “But right now, the Department of Defense says excessive and delinquent indebtedness is the No. 1 cause for denying or revoking security clearances.”
Asked to confirm that massive debt and late payments are, indeed, the leading factors in security-clearance terminations, Gregory said: “One reason (for concern) is that a person with big debts is more likely to accept money in exchange for revealing secrets. So that's why financial things are one of the biggest reasons that a clearance would not be granted or be revoked.
“That said,” Gregory added, “the military takes a ‘whole person’ approach. Finance is only one factor to be considered among many others when it comes to security clearances. The U.S. military pays close attention to debt and other financial issues when it comes to screening applicants for security clearance to handle sensitive information.”
Based on the financial counseling sessions provided by VeteransPlus, statistics show that service members and veterans who approach the nonprofit have an average debt-to-income ratio of 46.5 percent, Pickens said. According to “The Ultimate Credit Handbook,” by Gerri Detweiler, a debt load of 36 percent or less is healthy for most people to carry, but a ratio of 43 percent to 49 percent means that dire financial difficulties are probably imminent unless immediate action is taken.
The nonprofit’s counselors also see an average unsecured debt (such as credit cards) of $9,700 and an average secured debt (such as a home) of $16,500.
How much is too much?
“I wish I knew that number,” Pickens said. “But if you’re not paying your bills and your debt-to-income ratio is what the military would consider to be excessive, they look at you as a risk.
“Military folks are susceptible to the same kinds of pressures and economic things as everybody else,” Pickens adds. “Their spouses get laid off. They have foreclosures. The fact that they have to move around frequently means they’re often upside down on their houses when they have to sell.”
In April 1990, Derek Staden, then 19, learned he was about to be deployed from his Air Force base in Wichita, Kan., to the Middle East as the U.S. military launched Operation Desert Storm. Then a senior airman whose duties included refueling aircraft, Staden’s mailbox suddenly was flooded with offers for credit cards and high-interest loans.
“Just out of nowhere – all from creditors locally,” Staden said. “I guess they knew our base was deploying. All we had to do was endorse the checks and they would cash them for us. I was a young man and I’d never seen anything like that before. I didn’t know how the interest payments worked so I took them and took advantage of them. I bought some things I needed and things I didn’t need.”
When Staden returned to his base later in 1990, those same creditors demanded that he repay the loans or balances or they would report him to his commanding officer. He knew his security clearance would be at risk if his superiors learned of his unpaid bills. He had earned that classified status during basic training. He needed the clearance because he was involved in secret, Cold War practice drills during which he refueled aircraft.
“I had to keep those payments up to speed because the military frowns on having debt issues like that,” Staden said. “It wasn’t an option to call my parents and ask for help because they taught me growing up how to be responsible for your obligations. I didn’t want to call them to tell them I’d been duped by creditors.
“I just had to scale back, spend all my weekends in the dorms (on base). Those were some lean times for me. I was so embarrassed.”
Staden, who left the service in 1995 and now lives in New Orleans and is trying to get into the music-production business, estimates that his debt ultimately reached in the low $20,000 range.
"I felt like I didn’t have anywhere to go for help – outside of my parents. I figured if I went to the adjutant on base I would get myself in trouble,” he said. “It made me second-guess a lot of things. I thought I was more prepared for living on my own. That was probably part of the reason I didn’t re-enlist. It was very stressful.”
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When I was in my early 20s I didn't sign anything relating to money until I understood it. It's sickening to see these banks like BoA etc prey on the soldiers but in this day and age you should know better.
You SHOULD know better, and I'm all about personal responsibility, but it's awful for banks to prey upon military members. My husband is in the Air Force. We get AT LEAST 1 or 2 letters EACH per week from banks/companies offering us loans/credit/ etc. We just throw them in the garbage. But for a young kid whose parents maybe never taught him/her that those things are a bad idea... it could be very tempting.
why blame the parents? If you're about personal responsibility then you should research the info -- these aren't children they are young adults with access to the internet and other forums to decide if they should go into debt. You should be accountable for your actions and if you decide that what you "want" now instead of what you "NEED" then you deserve what you get. Some of us have to follow the rules and if keeping your security clearance was important to them then they should have done the responsible thing and not gone so far into debt they can't pay THEIR bills. Unlike the government of course.
If we started making the correlation that someone heavy in debt will take bribes then we've basically sunk the whole country. There are individuals in good financial situations that take bribes and partake in financial illegal activities every day (see Wall Street). Regardless of the 'personal responsibility' debate your personal finances shouldn't weight in on your ability to work. It should be ILLEGAL for companies to run credit checks for employment. Someone who's lost a job and had medical bills pile up doesn't equate to a thief. Again, big business and government gets away with masses of debt but when the little guy accumulates debt they are prevented from sustaining their lives.
Students, families, military....why would banks loan so much money to people who don't show the means for repayment? Of course, it doesn't help if suddenly the country enters a Depression caused by the very predatory banks that you owe. Job loss overnight and abrupt devaluation of all savings and assets does not provide the average person with a cushion.
Many of these people had good debt to income ratio before they were laid off and then couldn't find jobs or couldn't find jobs that paid a living wage. Of course, we only bailed out the Banks with taxpayer money; we let the American citizen sink.
because of all the cutbacks in active duty soldiers, starting with Clinton; we have fought two wars with Natl. guard and reserve troops; we pulled them out of higher paying civilian jobs, and have deployed them as much as 3 times overseas for as much as 4.5 years; most have seen their pay cut in half; now they are struggling to keep their homes, cars, and their credit is being ruined; great reward for our fighting men and women, Washington ,another name for incompetence.
This whole economic meltdown by Wall Street has cascaded all over the place.
People lost their jobs, then couldn't find a new job, then got into foreclosure, then eventually had to declare bankruptcy.
So then what happens. Stupid employers start refusing to hire people with bankruptcies or foreclosures.
GET A CLUE EMPLOYERS !! These people didn't cause this economic meltdown. Wall Street did. And cost 10 million people their jobs. Forget whether people have bad credit reports or foreclosures or bankruptcies. You are wasting good and valuable talent that is needed by the country.
.
While I fully support our military I am sick of these articles that try and portray irresponsible people as victims. Anyone with a brain knows what credit is and that you are going to have to pay back that money you borrow. People know what an interest rate is and that a high one is bad. This is not rocket science. They guy in this article admits to buying things he knew he did not need on credit - this is the definition of irresponsible behavior. When I was in college and just out of school I got numerous credit card deals in the mail. When I started working I was getting at least two or three a week. You do not need to be a rocket scientist or even a college graduate to know that buying something you can not afford on a credit card with double digit interest rates is a bad idea. The military is actually pretty good about counseling new recruits about financial matters, it is just that many of these young adults are arrogant and think they know better. They do not want to wait and save up for the toys, they want them now. They spend a fortune on big screen HDTVs and of course they must have the latest iPhone and other electronic gadgets. As for the comments in the article about the military having to sell houses when they are often upside down I say that is their fault. Anyone knows that a home is not meant as a short term investment. If you know you are going to be moving every three years then you really have no business buying a home. The odds on a home appreciating in value enough just to cover all the closing costs and selling costs in that period are slim to none. Being in the military on active duty is just not conducive to being a homeowner in most cases. This is a fact of life. I do not have any sympathy for military personnel who complain about losing money on homes they bought because they were reassigned when the market was down.
I know people in the military who bought homes, but most of them did so with the idea that when they were reassigned they would turn the house into a rental, not try and sell it. They knew that they would not be able to get out what they put in if they sold in three years. They bought in areas with large military populations like the DC metro area, Norfolk, VA, and San Diego, CA and did a lot of research on prevailing rental rates before they bought so they knew they could cover most if not all of he mortgage with the rental income. One advantage of owning in a place near a high concentration of military is that there is always a steady stream of people moving into the area looking for a rental. They also bought in a place where they intended to live after their military lives were over with the intent of eventually moving back into the homes. Buying the home was part of their military retirement planning, not a short term investment.
The toddler-like Party of No runs up debt.
Then, Democratic adults have to clean up their mess.....over and over and over and over.
If only the Reichwing actually cared about our troops.
It must be a slow news day, because this isn't anything new. I held a TS/SCI for most of my 26 years on active duty. I don't think it's so much that debt makes a person more succeptable, I think mostly it's viewed as an indication of the individual's maturity and responsibility. Many people who have trouble with debt brought it on themselves. Like the guy mentioned in the article- he made a financial agreement for a loan he really didn't need, and didn't bother to ensure he understood the terms. How mature and responsible is that? You could say someone took advantage of him, but that's the catch; if someone can be easily be taken advantage of, do they merit a clearance?
its obamas fault..he cares nothing about our troops..why dont he give our soliders a break and bail them out?? are our troops to big to fail....
YES, all people should be aware enough to have some fiscal sense. But, how much responsibility should be shouldered by the predatory banking industry? I'm tired of people screeching about personal responsibility, then giving the banking industry the green light to engage in some of the most scrupulous, nefarious and underhanded methods possible.
Is everything supposed to be "buyer beware?" I'm very intelligent and well-educated, but I'm no CPA or economist, and I still have a hard time deciphering the junk that comes from these corporations.
Is it no surprise that the major banks specifically hit college-age people for credit offers ad nauseum? They KNOW that younger people are far less savvy with finances, and do not readily understand the fine print that gets squeezed into the forms. It is cruel, predatory and immoral.
Plus, we live in a nation where the standard of living is practically royalty when compared to less developed nations. There is an extreme amount of pressure socially to "keep up with the Joneses", despite the common argument against the notion. While this does not absolve anyone from mishandling their finances, take notice that our country is very expensive to live in in the first place!
As for the soldiers, I feel sad that they have so many rampant financial problems. We ask these young people to stand in harm's way and be treated as cannon fodder as they shed blood for us. But we treat them as sheer pawns, pay them meager wages for the efforts, and withhold adequate funding for appropriate VA services after the fact. To top it all off, we ask them to bend and bend until they break. It is NOT FAIR, and these are OUR CHILDREN!!!!
Both political parties are to blame. Both are corrupted. Both cater to the large moneyed interests that prey on the uneducated. Shame all around.
Dave -
I had always heard that the first rule of having a security clearance was not telling complete strangers that you had one.
Never Stop Asking Questions
The toddler-like Party of No runs up debt.
Then, Democratic adults have to clean up their mess.....over and over and over and over.
If only the Reichwing actually cared about our troops.
#1.8
Never,
You might need to check which party had pretty much been in charge of passing legislation, i.e., congress, since about January, 2007. Congress generally controls the federal purse strings.
F&B666
Personal Finance needs to be taught at the grade school level.
No one gets exposure to it so no wonder companies prey upon our ignorance.
Never Stop Asking Questions:
Yes those damn Republican MADE this soldier (and many others like him) spend more than he earned! He had direct, peer pressure from President George H. W. Bush (than President, 1990) himself to buy all those items.
Turing off the sarcasm now; it's party line idiots like you that paralyze our political system. Your finger-pointing is ABSOLUTELY ABSURD. Take that bull-dung elsewhere. If anything you should thank the "Republicans" as they tend to keep more soldiers employed.
People like you want don't know what the hell accountability is and always look to blame the party across the isle.
Troops shouldn't have any more issues than members of Congress......
People in debt cannot be trusted with the security of this country? Nothing compares to the debt our Government is in. Can we no longer trust national security to our government?
US military is signing up even illegal aliens - any problems with security clearances for them?
More fallout from the oligarchy.
As long as we continue with the obscene wealth imbalances in this country (the top 5 percent own about 2/3 of everything), wages will remain flat in the face of inflation and people will remain in debt to the robber barons at the top, who write their own laws.
Crime and desperation have been on the rise for many years, thanks to supply-side economic policies and greedy, self-serving corporations. The politicians they own are the enablers of such a system. That must change.
I see a lot of "take responsibility" garbage on this forum, but one thing we need to think about is that these are not the guys serving up fries and burgers. These are our troops. If something like CC debt is starting to affect who gets security clearances then the issue needs to be looked at. Maybe this is one more freedom members of the military lose, the freedom to have debt. Or maybe the government should offer them up somekind of CC that will teach some of them to be responsible.
Me, I live in Europe. There is no credit system here to speak of like that of the US. If I want a car I take my bank account number, my work contract, my lease or mortgage agreement to the bank and they determine if I can afford it or not based on my debt to income ratio. I give the bank loaning me the money my bank info to make automatic withdrawls on the account, and if I don't agree to that then I'm always free to pay cash for the car. I still haven't met anyone with a credit card repayment problem, or someone massively in debt.
Never Stop Asking Questions....."The toddler-like
PartyMr. Obama of No runs up debt. Then,Democratic adultsRomney-Ryan have to clean uptheirHIS mess.....over and over and over and over. If only the Reichwing actually cared about our troops. "Never Stop telling Never Stop Asking Questions the TRUTH....he/she rambles a lot.
First, Mr. Obama and his lemming in the Senate, Congresswoman Reid, is the Party of NO. No working across the aisle....my way or the highway....just ask Congresswoman Murray....."Either the Republicans pass our TAX on the folks making $ 250,000/year or more OR America can just go over the Fiscal Cliff". And, Mr. Obama has run UP the debt MORE than any other President in history....over $ 5,000,000,000,000 in 3 1/2 years.
Second, Mr. Obama and his Liberal Cabinet members have done more to screw up EVERYTHING with Executive Orders or NEW Cabinet regulations, it will take years to un-screw what they have done to Main Street America.
Lastly, your use of "Reichwing" properly identifies the Democratic Party. I am Independent and leaning right, have served 34 years in the military, and see that this Administration "talks" about supporting the troops but just does the opposite (like, suggesting our brave men and women pay for their own medical bills). What have you DONE for your country ?
Ah, good ol' capitalism. Send them off to war to die for profits for the Military Industrial Complex, and if they survive, foreclose on them when they get back. It's a real win-win for Wall Street.
Saxon - 1.5 - Clinton is the one who started cutting back on active duty soldiers? Really? That's funny, because I remember lots of RIF notices going out to active duty personnel under Bush Sr.
Yes, there most certainly was a draw down under Clinton, which began around 1991; I saw it firsthand.
What does President Obama, have to do with these soldiers running up huge debts, and failing to pay them back? These soldiers spend more than they make. They deserve no special treatment. How are we to trust them with national security if they can't pay their damn bills?
Brian,
You are absolutely right.
Many of the problems with this issue is because of how today's society and those new to the military have been raised with the "I'M ENTITLED" attitude. At the end of my husband's military career, we were stationed in Hawaii. Although things could be more expensive off-base, it wasn't a drastic difference. Even though we were senior enlisted & were given COLA (cost of living allowance) we remained careful with our money. We considered COLA a bonus, & did not include it into our monthly pay so we knew we could live on our income if it ever was taken away. We lived in base housing which was covered by our housing allowance. It wasn't top of the line, yet it wasn't horrible either. We were grateful to be provided with a place to live. We had one car between 3 drivers in our family and lived within our means.
It frustrated me when I would see young airmen right out of tech school & their spouses (many didn't work, but stayed home with the kids) each had brand new cars plus every electronic gadget known to man. To top it off, they would complain about their "sub-standard" housing conditions, medical care & other available services that are provided to the military community. Then when they would PCS back to the mainland, they would lose that COLA & realize that they couldn't pay their bills based on their pay grade.
1st, the military should teach them a course in basic training on financial responsibility & not to live beyond your pay grade. At their 1st base assignment or when they marry, it should be mandatory for their spouse to attend a fiscal training class at family services.
2nd, no soldier new to the military should have an overseas assignment as their 1st assignment so they do not become accustomed and dependent on COLA to pay their bills.
Now issues involving the housing market & spousal lay-offs are a completely different issue & I feel for those that had no control in situations like that. But those that abuse the system & claim ignorance I have no sympathy for.
it's just like the government; send them to war and if they survive that, well then we'll f--k them someother way,peroid!
@Mike-32658799 - I understand where you are coming from but, you probably did not server so you do not understand the implications and great responsiblity of have a security cleanance entails. While you may not lose or be denied due to debt, financial irresponsibilty carries a heavy price. Each case is weighed accordingly and looked at carefully. Consider the type of information some have access too and you would see why have a big temptation to get more than enough cash to remove all your debt would be of concern. It is difficult for people who have never been in the military to understand the doctrine or why things are done the way they are. Suffice it to say, these same men and women defend this nation everyday and most have the highest integrity but remember, they are also human. In the case of national security, why tempt fate.
Maricopa County Resident...
What did you see first hand? A military draw down or Clinton as president 2 years before he took office.
I'm all for personal responsibility and yes, one of the guys interviewed admits he bought things he really didn't need. But let's think about one other thing he said: He was 19 at the time, and had no idea of how interest rates worked. A lot of people don't, and find out through painful experience. Credit is not a bad thing if handled responsibly, so stop with the "if you can't afford it, don't buy it. That applies,only to credit cards. But who pays cash for a new car or a house? Your mortgage is basically credit without a credit card. And let's be honest - understanding finance, compound interest, finance charges and all of that is not the same as not basic math. So isn't it time we taught some basic finance in school and relating it to real world experience? Some high schools do, with programs that are very successful. Would be interesting to see if kids who went thru programs like that get into the same kind of financial trouble.
All of these sad sacks who blame the victims... What twenty year old has the savvy to avoid traps designed by generations of 'marketing' psychopaths whose only goal is to influence the naive human mind into optimism regarding how much of its financial future it can sell now and still get by. Once that is done, the trap closes and desperation and digging deeper into the trap just to stay 'afloat' ensues. We parasitize our students, our soldiers, anyone we can, so as to suck them dry. The Military allows these parasites to congregate around military bases like missionaries from Hell. If it were STDs, something would be done. But these psychopathy-innocent young people fall victim to a far worse disease, the American 'free market' which is allowed to enslave the youngest, most innocent, of our citizens.
You pontificating sociopaths who see 'personal responsibility' as some sort of guiding principle and not the primary target and victim of all sales pitches are liars and hypocrisistic fascists who completely ignore the profound damage our elite is doing to us, America. You would blame these same young naive people if they caught smallpox and you somehow didn't. "Oh, they weren't careful enough..." and would not care how horribly they died because our 'ally' deliberately loosed this horror upon them. "It was their own fault", you would say.
These are our innocent young and they are being preyed upon by the pure psychopathy of our elite and we hear voices here condemning them instead of condemning their predators whom we will eventually have to kill because they will only get worse. We see here the Military essentially assisting the predators by abetting their predation of our children. This is not an issue of individual responsibility but an issue of National Security in many more ways than the story above points out. We must soon remove all of these rapacious parasites and their progeny and their tools (e.g. the fed, goldman-sucks, the public stock corporation, the credit score) or hand on to our children and grandchildren slavery and economic hardship of an order now unimaginable but on the horizon of America.
Oh yeah, I am no fan of Obama but, all of these paid karl-rovian Corporate propagandists who attempt to turn every comment page on the internet into an attack on Obama with their planted comments, innuendos, and outright lies are also our enemies, the little helpers of our predator. Were these same poisonous people working for Obama, they would need no lies, no distortions, no twisted truths. They would just have to ask their readers to visit Wikipedia at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Debt_Trend.svg. The explosive increase of federal monies pouring directly into the elite, and who is responsible, will be very clear to anyone.
You can't just read the one example the article gives and then dismiss all of the rest of these people as irresponsible. Look at the companies that are duping these people into these bad situations. The banks continue to rip people off and yet many stand up for the banks and blame the victim. Members of the military are generally more responsible than the average joe, in my opinion.
Cow..: It is not the govt that is screwing them, it is predatory, ungrateful businesses--- that post signs saying "We Support Our Troops".
There is a very good reason why clearances can be lost by because of debt problems. Going back years and years, one of the ways the other side has gotten our secrets has been by paying for them. If you are desperate because of debt, you are vulnerable to exploitation.
Saxon: Your whine about deployments for the NG and RC folks is simply crocodile tears. It is an all volunteer force - no one forced these folks to join the military - free choice. Most of those folks did not have high paying civilian jobs they were leaving behind, many if not most joined the guard because they needed the money, Deployments and a regular pay check saved many of those folks their homes, cars, put food on the table etc. So before shooting off about something you obviously know little to nothing about try researching the topic next time fool
Santanik: Banks duping anyone? Get real, these folks should be able to READ and comprehend before they sign anything. Its not a buyer beware scenario - its about very stupid, immature people making decisions based upon wanting the latest toy and not worrying about how they are going to pay for it. Stupid is as Stupid does.
Ternan must work for Bank of America.
No Ternan is a retired Army officer not a freeeloading welfare reject like you are Satanick
Ironic don't you think. That these young men and women could be stripped of their security clearance when we have a Commander-in-Chief who has increased our debt by almost six trillion in four years.
You may be a ProudAmerican but that type of logic, based in 100% FACT, could brand you as a racist on these boards. Be careful to NEVER disucss facts when discussing this commander-int-hief.
From one veteran to another: thank you for your service.
Just because you're a veteran doesn't mean your snarky comment is relevant to this discussion. Congress, not the President, decides how much our national debt will be.
thats what obama wants..to tear down our military,,,any way he can...he could help,,,but is he going too...doubt it..he hates the troops
Hates the troops?? Oh brother.
So Reagan's TRIPLING the debt must be terrible too?
Obama increased the debt by 16% and most of it was fulfilling Bush's unpaid for programs: 2 wars, a huge tax cut, and the medicare drug benefit.
If you're going to throw stones, throw them at the correct people
Regardless of what section of the government is responsible it's still ironic.
Neither party really makes moves to rein in the debt. Both of them are behaving like drunken frat boys with their parents' platinum Visa card. As long as people aren't willing to commit to smashing this cycle of corruption it's just going to be more of the same for generations to come.
So how do you end it? By forcing the do-nothings on both sides out of office. Stop pandering to a party. Stand up for the people by voting for the people and not a R or a D.
Bart, Tell me what choice did Reagan have? Carter destroyed the military. He left the country defenseless.
The problem I have with this story is that if he re-enlisted I believe there is a bonus and that would help pay down his debt
Are you implying that no other commander in chief in history ever increased our debt by trillions???
@!$%#ing be real.
Sounds like more simple one sided hate to me.
These soldiers have no problem buying rims, going to strip clubs. They spend above their means. I've seen E-1's driving cars you know damn well they can't afford. I've seen them spend $3000.00 on rims, and then go over to the food pantry and get food for family. Those, that fail to pay the debts back should be kicked out. Who signed the loan papers or credit card documents? No special treatment shall be given.
east coast, you're right, except I think they're behaving more like children fighting in the sand box. Our elected representatives keep all their perks etc., while the rest of the population is slowly heading down the drain. The Dumbocrats are jerks, the Repuglicans are jerks and the Pee Potty is not a viable alternative. This time I will vote for anything that is not D. R. or P. (except the obligatory communist party candidate). It's the only way to send those butt heads a message, short of armed revolution. All this finger pointing and blaming that's going on between both sides of the aisle reminds me of some words from an old Brewer and Shipley song, ".....everyone knows how the puzzle was laid, but can anyone recall the solution?"
Totally agree...the money could be much better be used helping these servicemen and women out. Here is a wonderful opprotunity for Mr. Obama to show some leadership which most all of the country would agree with and also show those people that claim that he hates our military that they are wrong. Why not, he spent hundreds of millions of dollars on refurbishing old mosques out in the middle of some asian desert, certainly he can show a little humanity to our troops after keeping them in so many wars for so long(plus the ones that we haven't been told about..)
art, yea, and he don't need a security clearance to do it, either!
Larry, that re-up bpouns was taxed to the max. been there done that!
Art
So your choice is to bury your head in the sand and let others determine the fate of this country. That, sir, is cowardice in spades.
Good point Proud. I kept my nose (and everything else) clean for 20 years in the AF and maintained a very high level cleareance. Now we have Obamanation and his Mrs who think the POTUS is a blank check to spen what ever they want. I don't make in two months what she spent on that jacket. Need to cut up their credit cards.
Bart Conner
NEXT...REAL NATIONAL DEBT STATISTICS
President Barack Obama - (the numbers are WORSE now!)
President George W. Bush
President Bill Clinton
President George H.W. Bush
President Ronald Reagan
President Jimmy Carter
President Gerald Ford
President Richard Nixon
President Lyndon B. Johnson
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10959884/7/national-debt-a-look-at-presidents-tabs.html
@ Justoneguy
So what we can conclude from your little list is that every president, regardless of their party affiliation, has been steadily increasing the debt at ever greater rates. (Clinton being the sole exception).
Make your own conclusions Satanick....are you capable of that? lol
SANTANIK: The lesson from those numbers is that none of those Presidents increased the national debt. You do remember a course called civics in high school where you were supposed to learn something about how your Government operates (well most of us did anyway)
The Congress and the Senate control the purse strings of the nation not the President - Presidents submit budgets but not one budget in the history of the United States has been approved as submitted. Congress and the Senate have the right to change any budget submitted since they are your elected officials.
Of course one very important consideration for the last 30 years every budget deficit has been expanded by a democratic controlled Congress and Senate. The only time the United States achieved a balance budget (this does not mean eliminated the national debt) was under bill Clinton with Republicans in control of both the House and the Senate.
The list was compiled according to Presidents not Congress majorities. By the way, the President has the final say over the budget. They could veto it if they want or threaten a veto to cut pork.
I would argue that the lobbyists and special interests who sponsor our elected officials control the purse strings of the country. You must have only made it through high school civics to have such a naive view of the government.
Satanick
Let's see ..... Obamacare, GSA scandal, Secret Service scandal, 23
other Federal department investigations, Fast & Furious, Higher taxes,
Solyndra, High unemployment, No Federal Budget, Under-the-table deals, Suing
states for enforcing Federal laws, SCOTUS, Gas prices more than doubled, More
regulations, No voter ID (?) endorsed, Shovel Ready Jobs that never
materialized at the cost of billions of dollars, Black Panther voter
intimidation, No Keystone pipeline, Massive deficit spending with NO RESULTS,
Over 5 trillion added to the national debt, No plan for anything except the
"Buffet Rule", Speech after speech with no follow-through, and on
& on & on.
Is this the direction our country should be heading? Aren’t we a
better country than that?
Satanick: Lord you are one simple minded person. A President never has the final word Go back and actually read that book on civics
Thus, the president has the final say. Thanks for playing.
Proud American -- couldn't have said it better! Thank you for your service!!!!!
I hope someone is educating the soldiers that one of the freedoms they are fighting for is the freedom of corporations and banks to steal money from ignorant people.
Indeed, and another freedom is to not do one's homework, and to be unable to do simple math to figure out one's ability to meet loan obligations. And I think it VERY IMPORTANT to emphasize that members of the military automatically get my utmost respect and gratitude until they do something to lose it, but by the same token, they have the responsibility to THINK, as we all do, when it comes to borrowing. So it's not just the big old, mean old banks. My opinion, nor more than that.
With all that, any loan officers who could clearly see they were dealing with a military or ex-military customer, or any customer, for that matter, who did not comprehend the scope of responsibilities associated with going into debt, that loan officer should, well, undergo despicable punishment. That borders on a rant.
F&B666
The loan officers who cut corners and look the other way.... get the promotions.
Wakefield: the freedoms those young men and women are fighting for includes the right to make an informed decision. They are engaged in adult-like careers perhaps its time they start acting like adults when it comes to decisions that will impact their financial future. They should be able to handle their own finances using something called intelligence and common sense. If they get in trouble its no ones fault other than their own caused by poor decisions.
The Republican way: privatize everything and pay people peanuts for their services, including our military.
A nation of poor people is insecure to begin with, and that is where we are today, thanks to the republican ideology of "NO".
Or, put a chicken in every pot, and don't worry about debt on a national scale instead? Doesn't seem all that logical. And, no, I do not agree with your stated opinion about the so-called Republican way.
F&B666
As usual, neither end of the political spectrum has the answers. The real answers to the real problems exist in the Center, where very few politicians are brave enough to tread.
EL RE: You are simply clueless about the military - The average pay for an E-1 with less than a year in service without any of their other allotments such as housing, clothing, food rations or combat pay is $18,000 per year. A E-5 with 3 years in service without including any other allowance makes $30,000. The fact is they are entitled to those allowances which adds several more hundred dollars per month. Ask yourself how many folks with nothing but a High School diploma makes more? Then add in the fact these men and women in uniform also have free housing, free food, free medical, 30 days paid leave per year and retirement at half of their base salary after 20 years of service for the rest of their life.
Tell me another career field offers that to a kid with a high school diploma or a GED? Then add in they also qualify for the GI bill which is essentially pays for a 4 year college degree, low interest rate hme loans and low cost ($496.00 per year for a family) medical care.
Those folks do well with a military career. I know I retired as a LTC - next time do some research moron.
Our military need help, and if they get into financial trouble they should be given that help. They should be put in another job untill they can get thier financial house in order.
Once you lose a clearance it is very difficult to get another one and that is what the military will do with those in financial trouble, take away their clearance.
De2Or2010,
"They should be put in another job untill they can get thier financial house in order."
By "put in a different job" I assume you mean put in a job that does not require a security clearance, am I right? I'm thinking that is what you mean because all jobs in the military pay the same. The amount of your pay depends on your rank; not on what job you do. There are, of course, extra bonuses for certain jobs such as flight pay and combat pay, but otherwise it depends on your rank.
You people talk like each person in the military has a clearance .Only the ones with high level jobs have clearance.
mike ritter deerhunt1,
"Only the ones with high level jobs have clearance."
Yes, it does depend on your job. I had a Top Secret SBI clearance for 20 years because I worked in intelligence. Not all jobs in the military require that high a level of security clearance. Many require no higher than a Secret clearance, and some require none at all.
ritter: Wrong on the high level jobs. Clearance is based on position sensitivity. It is true that those with higher grades will tend to be in positions where they have access to sensitive info because they lead more and more soldiers that might need the info and will know more about the org and the mission, but a fairly senior level NCO could be a cook or a mechanic MOS that required no clearance at all, where a low level private might be in a very sensitive weapons or intel program that may require a very high level of clearance. Also, there is a difference between an investigation and a clearance. All soldiers coming in will get a basic investigation, where required more intensive investigations are done. Clearances are granted based on position sensitivity, the background investigation is reviewed before granting the Clearance. For high level clearances are required, much more in depth investigations are done.
Clearances can be revoked if someone catches the eye of the military for blatant behavior, otherwise investigations are renewed periodically where new derogatory info could come out.
As for predatory lenders, for years there have been groups of sharks waiting just outside the gates of military installations. They know there are a whole bunch of young kids who just left home, many from homes where incomes were low, so many of these kides have never had much of anything, and never were taught the nuances of managing money. The sharks, on the other hand, are pros at getting kids to sign on the dotted line. This is the first time many of these kids have ever seen these apparently big paychecks of their own, who can blame them for believing the slick salesman who convinces them that they can afford that shiny convertible? They charge usury interest rates on rent to buy schemes, knowing that they can get lots of pressure on the kids to pay by contacting the soldier's unit so have few concerns about letting the soldier borrow far more than they can really afford to pay.
In a perfect world people are responsible for their own actions, but there should be some accountability to the people who are willing to take advantage of young soldiers who have committed years of their lives to serving their country. Further, I think it is a little cold that the same people who will wave the patriotism flag are not willing to cover the back, just a little, for the soldiers who take it to heart and are willing to risk their lives so that those back home making the dollars don't have to.
By the way, the pic for this post fits exactly the typical shady business I am talking about. Military Financing E-1 (private) and above. We Support our Troops. Blah, Blah, Blah.
De: The military has many organizations that assist folks that get in over their head financially - the loss of a clearance though is a clear indication that the person can not be entrusted in a position of responsibility. Kicking a person out of the military is always the last choice a commander makes and only taken after every other avenue has been exhausted. There simply are some folks that are not responsible and it is simply not theUS military responsible to clean up the mess you did raising your kids.
If people aren't smart enough to manage their finances, who could you possibly trust them with your life? Of course, high personal debt should be a negative on a security clearance report. There maybe mitigating circumstances but the lack of common sense and the lack basic fiscal responsibility are not the negatives I would trust America to. Of course, this identifies Obama who has leaked security information that will result in bad things. Maybe Obama's clearance should be pulled!!!
You can tell a person who has never served a mile away
like obama?
and Romney?
Are they all that stupid in texass?
dave-sunny,
Or Arkansas or, later, of DC. As in, a former president who allowed to be put into a compromising position by acting recklessly with more than one female? As in, be in a blackmailable spot? No? That was one of the issues raised re the secret service fiasco in Colombia. But I'm off point. The first part of J. Alvarez's point seems valid. The second is an unproven allegation.
F&B666
Alvarez: But we DO trust them w/our lives... then sell them out and leave them on their own the moment they get sucked in by vultures? But hey, they weren't responsible....
I do agree that people do need to be held accountable for their obligations, even if they don't yet have the proper tools as young adults to make informed decisions. We are typically not talking about 150k or higher student loans, at worst it will be a 30k car. It could be painful, but they can likely recover and learn a valuable life lesson. Also, many of the soldiers are young with a limited credit history, they should be able to buy on credit to get necessities starting up, and all of us have probably gone through that stage before we became better credit risks and had disposable income so we can afford to pay cash or get low interest rates. HOWEVER, it is horrible that we are allowing the military to be the credit enforcer and collections agency for these businesses.
If the businesses want to extend credit to soldiers, they should have the same avenues for redress they have with any other consumer. Report to a credit agency, send letters, etc. If a company notifies a unit their soldier is not paying, the response should be "you extended the credit based on a credit eval and your intent to make a profit, you deal with getting payment" rather than threatening the soldier w/clearance stuff or UCMJ action. In addition, the Commands should put out lists of predatory lenders to their soldiers and advise them to avoid or bar them from using these companies. They already do the same w/bad bars, night clubs, etc. Clubs and such hate to be on these lists, the Command then is helping the soldiers by encouraging companies with better ethics and forcing the companies to change their ways or not do business with soldiers, rather than being used by the bad companies.
The effect in the end will be the same, if the soldier does not deal w/his debt issues it will show up in credit reports, this will show up in reinvestigations, appropriate Security Clearance actions will be taken. Contrary to popular belief, the military does not preclude a clearance, even high level clearances, for folks with a bad credit history- they recognize unfortunate things happen to good people. They look at the persons character as a whole based on ALL the facts, and how people dealt with the problem. If you have a bunch of speeding tickets or unpaid bills that you just ran away from and never paid, you have a problem. If you made some stupid mistakes or had personal situations so declared bankruptcy, but then went on to fulfill the terms of the court, no problem.
The housing crisis and inability to sell homes has hit military members hard.
How has it hit the military hard? Don't they receive a housing allowance?
poisonivy85,
"How has it hit the military hard? Don't they receive a housing allowance?"
Yes, they receive a housing allowance, but I think what Rllynn means is that if they buy a house in a particular assignment, they may have trouble selling that house when they are reassigned to somewhere else because of the housing crisis.
Why would anyone in the military buy a home? They are never at a base permanently. I was in the military, my dad retired from the military, never did he buy a home until he retired.
My brother in law is a LTC in the Army in DC area and his allowance is $2300.00 a month.
Housing allowances are different from place to place. You may have purchased your home in D.C. where the allowance is high ($2500), then be relocated (not by choice) to somewhere like Mississippi where the housing allowance is very low ($1100). Your allowance is based on where your assignment is, not where your purchased home is located. Prior to the housing crisis, you usually didn't have to worry about being upside down because it was easy to sell to another incoming military person & you would come out pretty even. So yes, it has hit military personnel hard.
KevinT,
"Why would anyone in the military buy a home?"
That's a good question, and I suppose the answer depends on the individual military person. But many military people do buy homes. I bought mine while I was in the military because it was a good tax shelter since interest on mortgage loans is still deductible on your taxes. Now that I am retired from the military, I am living in that home I bought while on active duty.
Yes the military does get a housing allowance - why the housing crises has significantly impacted the military is simple - the military comes into an area and can expect to remain on station for 2-3 years- barely enough time to build a little equity up in their home before a a move to a new assignment - if the market for home sales is bad their is no equity and the house is sold at a loss or at break even.
The reason people in uniform buy homes is very simple- they want to own a home just like civilians. moving every 3-4 years does not limit ones ability to build equity and sell the home at a profit. What is critically important for a military member to remember is to buy as new a house as possible preferably new construction, also buy what the local market is, most markets are 3-4 bedrooms and 2 1/2 - 4 bathrooms, 2 car garage, eat in kitchen, dining room, family room and deck and a yard. Then in 3-4 years plan your PCS move by prepping your home for resale, be prepared to leave the family in place as you move to the next duty station looking for the new home your family will be moving into. That plan worked for me during the purchase of 3 new construction homes, the resale of those homes 3-4 years later with sufficient equity to increase my down payment for each subsequent home until i bought my 4th home at my last duty station- that home is where i live now - it was paid off in three years. Military service does not limit your ability to own a home if anything it offers you an incredible opportunity using a VA loan for your first purchase and then using that a launch pad to buy your second, third, fourth home. Home ownership offers many advantages such as a tax write off, building equity etc but keep in mind it is always your home and should not be considered your "investment"
Well, Paul Ryan is one of the members of the budget committee, and he proposed "kind of shutting down the govenment" and he forgot his own congressional office and his paycheck and his staff and his own benefits.
Where do you people come up with this crap? Ryan has never said such a thing. Maybe you should listen to him instead of left wing slanted news. He has stated that medicare is in trouble if nothing is done to correct it. The country is in a mess, democrats do nothing to correct the massive spending problem because the massive spending buys votes. That will all come to an end one way or another.
REALLY? You want to bring President Obama into this? Let's just remember who had 2 wars OFF THE BOOKS! Tax cut's, medicare part d etc all not paid for which is a huge part of our debt! Ok lesson over!
My parents taught me about credit, took me out and co-signed for a credit card Sears, explained when I bought something you paid it off, and that is how you develop credit!
But these credit card Co's and rent to own Co's, payday loans etc prey on people, they make it sound so good, but charge outrageous interest and fee's!
Not 'OFF THE BOOKS'. 'Off-budget', yes, but the expenditure and impact on the National Debt have been there for all to see. Literally. On the Web.
Ok lesson over? in your 'just remember', you drastically limited responsibility for the Nationa Debt. There I go again, off-point.
What about that quiet little war over in Africa that our troops are involved with...do you not count that ???
hummbird,
"But these credit card Co's and rent to own Co's, payday loans etc prey on people, they make it sound so good, but charge outrageous interest and fee's!"
Yes, and many of these "pay-day loan" joints that charge an arm and a leg in interest are conveniently located right outside the main gates of military installations. The lower ranking military members really don't make all that much money and often find it necessary to resort to such loan "services" to make ends meet from one paycheck to another, ending up deeply in dept.
The wars have very little to do with the debt. Compare how much money is spent on military during peace time to war time. You will find there is very little difference in the amount of money spent. The tragedy is in human life.
What is Obamas reason to keep the war going in Afgahnastan? Tricky Dick Nixon just pulled the troops out of Vietnam. Obama could do the same.
Well then our government should wake up and realize that our military personnel should be the highest paid government employees in the nation! Tell Congress they will need to take a pay cut so the men and women who put their lives on the line for the rest of us will get the pay and benefits they deserve and will no longer be treated like slaves or third class citizens! Our service men and women deserve much more than they are currently paid!
mathuin, You obviously do not understand the military, period. If you actually have served, you must have spent the time in a coma. This is an all volunteer force and the difficulties of life in the military are told to recruits very early on. As for their being treated like slaves? That is the natural consequence of civilian control of the military (a concept I embrace whole-heartedly). Civilians determine how much money the military gets and how that money breaks done into pay, benefits, material, etc. Our service men and women may deserve more money, but they knew the rules going in and volunteered anyway. Sounds like a personal responsibility problem to me.
These people know that Bush entered his presidency not only solvent but with a surplus. Republicans pushed for 2 wars financed by the Chinese, a lousy prescription drug benefit that was a throwaway to the insurance companies, and of course the brilliant Bush Tax Cuts. Then he hightailed it out of office so he could blame someone else.
KeenInsight,
No, not all These people. The national debt at the beginning of B43's administration was about 5 Trillion. Even if other action had been taken post 9/11, it would not have been done for free. And, of course, once again, it is congress that controls the purse strings. If you want to play reps vs dems (I simply say a plague on both their houses), we need to remember how much succes in ramping up the debt the blues experienced in recent history. Very recent.
Right. I forgot that it's all Bush's fault.
F&B666
And from 2007 thru 2010 a house and senate controlled by democrats. Lest you forget, Bush had to get the cash from the house. And with the exception of one, all the dems in the senate voted for each of those wars. This broken record blaming bush thing you dems do is childish and shows little thought.
Republicans voted for the the Bush tax cuts using the "evil" reconciliation that conservatives now scream about. Obama and the Democrats did not do that.
Republicans voted for unfunded Medicare Part D prescription plan, not Obama, not the Democrats.
Republicans and a Republican administration started two wars of choice without providing any funding, even keeping them off budget. Yes, some Democrats were tricked into voting for these wars and pressured by the patriotic rage of the American public, but they would not have happened without the total Republican support.
And conservatives always seem to forget about The Great Republican Economic Collapse of 2008 - or else they blame the wrong people, like Barney Frank, who held zero power in the Tom Delay house at the very time he is accused of blocking regulations that the Republicans supposedly wanted.
It takes a whole lot of cognitive dissonance to believe that Republicans wanted more regulations. Just more proof that all conservatives are dishonest. Their ideology requires and rewards dishonesty. These morally corrupt people actually believe it is wrong NOT to employ deceit and dishonesty in pursuit of their agenda.
Amminadab,
"Just more proof that all conservatives are dishonest. Their ideology requires and rewards dishonesty. These morally corrupt people actually believe it is wrong NOT to employ deceit and dishonesty in pursuit of their agenda."
All conservatives bad. Presumably all liberals good. Perspectives like this are good examples of why discourse is often so useless.
The Great Republican Collapse of 2008? Oh, how convenient. It cocurred before a democrat president was in office, so gee, we get to blame the president. Let's forget the congressional makeup. While we're at it, the years that this particular problem had time to grow, fertilized from numerous sources.
'cognitive dissonance'? I don't know about anyone else, but please, give me a break. Not impressed.
I know some young people who were talking of joining the military to make more money. I pulled up the Military Pay schedule and explained how it works. As a E-1 they would make $7 or $8 an hour based on a 40 hour week but obviously would be working double or triple that. Then after a school if all went well they would be a E-3 and actually do only 40 or 50 hours of work day but the pay doesn't climb much until after 3 to 4 years of service and a E5 or 6 rating. They had no idea. Maybe they would have learned in the military from others. Unfortunately State Legislatures and Congress have approved laws for usury or the practice of making loans with excessive or abusive interest rates.
Yank
For your information, base pay is only one component of military pay. All members are provided either housing(base housing, barracks housing) or a sum of money to obtain housing. They are also fed 3 squares a day or an amount of money for food depending on their marital status. They are given health care as well. During my service I received the entire gamut at one time or another. My bas pay in 1967 was $100 a month as an E-2.
Good comment proud American, Another thing they can do is get our younger troops off minimum wage. I'm sure their will be comments about that, and another thing they can do is shorten their deployments when they are overseas. it isn't easy to support yourself, and your family when deployed. Especially when your housing allowance is shut down when your deployed because the government has seen fit to put you up in a tent, and that leaves their family short back home to pay bills, rent, and or mortgage.
Nun Ya, recommend you get your facts straight IOT ensure you or your family or friends continue to receive their military benefits. For example, your housing allowance does not shut off for Soldiers upon deployment as you've indicated. That is patently false. Secondly, I enjoy my family time too however, even my spouse understands that I gave my oath to the country and don't get much say in deployments. PS: The Army shortened deployments; 12 months to 9 in most cases.
Poor people may be willing sell secrets to eat? It sounds to me like the CIA understands that desperation bleeds in every corner of the planet now. Thanks in large part to our elephants and donkeys selling out our core for their own gains. Forget the banks: Without the legislation in place that allowed those bankers to become thieves, none of this crap would have ever come to pass!
DC: District of Corruption.
Democrats and Republicans are both sailing on the same yachts while we - the people who elect these thieves - sit here in the middle of the ocean on cardboard boxes just hoping the sharks don't eat us! This is a joke!
I'm surprised you don't have 160 hits. You are so right. I like that. District of Corruption. Very good, I hope you don't mind if I use it in the future.
2000, 2004, 2008, 2012 You make the decision to vote for the lesser of two evils, again and again.
A someone who held a security clearance while serving in the military and later pursued a career in financial services, I can see how having excessive debt can tempt a service member or employee to commit a criminal act that could result in damage to the nation's security or a financial loss to their employer.
As a small business owner, all of the employees I have had to terminate for dishonesty over the years had one thing in common: financial problems.
And of course once you terminated them they really had financial problems.
Well done!
Yes, because only people with financial problems are dishonest. Puleez. Then explain Cheney.
Explain tax cheats John Kerry, Rangel and kickback Dodds.
And why is Mitt Romney hiding his tax returns from the voters?
Amminadork - why is Blowbama the only president (if that is what you can call him...) in HISTORY to have all his records SEALED...?
Blah blah tax returns blah blah...Pure feckless Libtard rabble.
If interested, see #149. My post ended up there, and I don't know why. General comment on site performance: I find this site incredibly slow in response. My connection is high-speed, and I have 4 gig of RAM, so it is reasonable to expect better responsiveness. Undoubtedly a lot of the lethargic behavior is due to the ads, but it just seems to be a very lag-prone site.
Pathetic, go and get injured or shot up in some stupid war and come home to "we support our troops" bumper stickers, but we are not going to hire you because your a bad credit risk. Next time we throw a war people should wise up and say you go and be the hero.
The risks come with the job which the service person volunteered for. The rules about fiscal responsiblity also come with the job. Act irresponsibly and pay the consequences regardless of being in or out of the military.
No compassion from Neal.
maybe if the economy was better, like maybe the congress could pass a bill other than anti health care and anti women health - maybe if they worked a bit more - something could get done. maybe if the American people and our people in uniform were important to the radical right - maybe we could recover and move on
You do not seriously wants us to believe that the radical left cares one little bit about our people in uniform. Do you? Oh, wait, is that a cup of Kool-Aid in your hand?
I see you are brainwashed as well. Please tell me how free BC and free at will abortions are integral to womens healthcare. They should have to pay copays like anyone else. This anti female rights is a huge bald faced lie by the Dems.
@Dennis... There are no free at-will abortions. As for BC pills, I do pay a copay for insurance which covers a variety of medications in full. Now, that 'variety' includes BC pills for other women who, like me, have to depend on them for a normal life.
Back when I had to take them for severe dysmenorrhea, it was $30 a pack with insurance. Since I had to skip the week's worth of placebos, I ended up paying about $60 a month with insurance. That translates to $720 a year which is a nice chunk of change in my book.
To a lot of women, BC pills are as necessary as insulin or antibiotics or any other medication that is covered by insurance companies at no cost.
None of this is free; I - and everyone else who participates in my employer's plan - pay for this via our premiums. Incidentally, my insurance plan has been covering erectile dysfunction pills like Cialis, Levitra and Viagra for over 6 years at no cost. No one has raised a peep about this.
for ever dem,for ever dem and liberal idiots scum are the garbage of the world equal to communist and islam radicals.anyways this is for all the liberal idiots,my 2 dogs need surgery tomorrow,do you liberal idiots think i can get obame or sandra fluk to pay my bill for my 2 dogs?,i mean the liberal idiots want the tax payer to bail everyone out maybe the liberal idiots can pay for my dogs surgery
LaDolceVita1,
I'm curious as to what percentage of BC users you think are using them for non-medical reasons.
Viagra at al? No, not everyone. "Peep". There.
Did you miss the brouhaha over the Sandra Fluke business about so-called "free" BC?
F & B666
Not to worry! Obama will bail them out. He makes sensible people pay for the non-sensible people. Why do they buy homes when they know they will most likely have several duty stations during their service? Makes no sense. I respect and admire our military, and wish them well but, common sense tells one what they can afford and not afford. I am a little tired of all the people who cry over their debts. They made them and should pay them.
These banks and credit card issuers put Guido The Loan Shark to shame. "Hurry, hurry... take our money... PLEASE! But when you can't pay, we'll make it our mission to ruin your life."
What will happen is that the debt load will get so high, and the economy so poor... massive defaults will force these lending vultures to dine on their own greed.
When everyone stops paying - what the h*ll can these Bankters do?
Too bad they aren't a Bank, they would get bailed out so they could go out and do it again.
I am in debt to our troops.
As the conservatives would say to a soldier. Personal Responsibility.
True....only in their speech, not in action.
A left wing liberal idiot has no idea what personal responsibility is. The only thing I see that left wing liberals understand is filth, smear, lies and the gutter.
Dennis- I'll put my credit score up against yours anytime! This left wing flaming "LIBERAL" has perfect credit.! LOL
Dummingbird...you only have perfect credit in Blowbama's eyes....500, just enough to get you on Welfare.
Yeah, I will put up my 800 credit score up against a conservative anytime.
Go to any military town, and you'll see that military bases are virtually surrounded by seedy used car lots, high-interest loan businesses, and pawn shops. These buisnesses all have one purpose: To separate the young, impressionable (and often desperate) servicemembers from their paychecks! Their commands should work harder to ensure and emphasize education about personal finance, and lawmakers should go after those scam-artists that target servicemembers and their families. It's been a problem for decades and nobody ever seems to do anything about it.
Bill is 100% correct.
You are 100% right on this one. Where you see a military base, you see a payday loan $hithole on every corner. They're the number one predator feasting on military personnel. The education process should start when the enlistee shows up at the recruiting office, not after they're already in the service and potentially compromised by one of these bull$hit artists. They should be required to attend financial literacy workshops prior to the test battery, and financial literacy should be included in the test battery.
The truly sad part: payday loan operators have a more influential lobby than soldiers and their families.
I can only speak for my husband's part, but he has personally taken his young soldiers back to these car lots you speak of and made them return their vehicles, and then he goes after the businesses he finds to be unscrupulous and threatens to have them black listed if they continue.
Also a lot of the pay day loan places are closing down because the Army has started doing a "no pay day loan" policy for active duty.
Command can only do so much, you know the whole you can lead a horse to water thing.
I live in Tucson, the area around the air force Base is all Pawn shops and easy credit places, and junk used car lots.
Around ours I see in this order, pawn shop, car dealer, tattoo shop, bar/strip club.
Well, at least the city on the other side of post our side isn't like that
So you have to drive to the other city for a car?
:P
Pretty much we have one or two dealerships but then our city isn't disgusting like the "one on the other side"
good comeback. ;)
BTW this is not just an active duty problem and people can't blame all of those predatory businesses for the problems the reserve component troops have with security clearances. Get a divorce, lose a job, declare bankruptcy, default on a student loan etc. and you can find yourself in the same predicament.
This article makes it sound as if the banks are praying on memebers of the military but this has been taught to hese people as the way to live (in debt). The next big housing market like fiasco will be student loans and it is not banks doing the loans it is tax payers. The federal government is doeling out money by the barrels many times 3 to 4 times what is needed for tuition and books. The students are buying new cars and clothes with the access with many no hope to pay it back, maybe unless they join the military.
Most students are simply trying to get an education which gets more expensive every year.
Students are being pushed into going to college! It is insane
I think we should do a lot more than just revoke their security clearances, because when you think about it for a while, what type of military is going to have soldiers who do things like borrowing money, using credit cards, and buying houses?
Not the type of military our great nation needs!
The audacity of these soldiers who think they somehow are entitled to have their own cars and houses!
They have Humvees, tanks, and barracks, and that is plenty good for them!
I say the best thing to do is to fire all of them and to hand them dishonorable discharges on the way out the door, so that they never will be able to work in our great nation, again!
What we need are more gay soldiers who are debt free and ready, willing, and able to bend over for Uncle Sam, which is fabulous . . .
Fabulous! :-o
P. S. Miley Cyrus' new haircut looks really stupid . . .
Maybe you can lead the way on this and show us how it's done.