And this woman is your typical spiteful ex-spouse who just wants her own way and doesn't want to have to cooperate or compromise with the other parent.

In most of these cases it is the other parent who would be best having custody.

.

Elder bull@!$%#, I hope you try it too. You'll have friends in jail.

The only sexual deviants are those people who agree with what this horrible Kenneth Miller, Lisa Miller and Mennonites did to this poor little girl. You should all be ashamed of yourself.

Double damnation upon that disgusting Lisa miller as you can tell she USED Jenkins to get $50,000 to get inseminated. You can bet that is all this horrible, disgusting, vile woman wanted, a baby and someone to pay for it. It could have been a man for all she cared as long as she got someone to pay for it. But it is so much easier to get bigoted religious people to help you out if you can con a Lesbian or Gay person to into getting you a kid.

1776 -

which one are you talking about???

Sexual deviant=linda.

"Lisa Miller wrote a pleading letter to a Vermont judge, explaining her position . . ."

What that letter comprised was a load of cr@p dumped on an innocent child by a spiteful, self-serving woman. A child has a right to a safe, secure childhood not one in which judgments and fears are heaped on her head. The emotional abuse to which Miller subjected the child is grounds for the girl to be taken from her.

It won't be that many years down the road before we are reading how Isabella fled from the repression in which she was held captive. She will be the one doing the renouncing. . . of Miller.

Elder Verdell, don't you have a box of snakes to play with?

Who gave birth to the child? Who's the girls father? I'm damn sure the other woman isn't the babies daddy. The child should go to the one that gave birth. Did both adopt this child? We need more info.

poisonivy85 - The child should go to the one that gave birth.

The court disagrees with you.

Nicaragua, will not send them back. So the court lost.

I think children should have to wait until they are 18 to go to church. Society protects them from dangerous things like alcohol, drugs, driving, loans, driving, sex, tattoos, fatty school lunches, why not the brainwashing of religion too? If the model is to protect a child from something that, when used irresponsibly, can lead to harm of themselves or others, then religion should be on that list. Teaching children that they, and the people they know and love, will go to hell as sinners to burn in eternal torment is child abuse, in my opinion.

"Gay "marriage" does not work. "

What a profound statement since approximately half of all hetero marriages end in divorce. Add to that the numbers who end more than 1 marriage in divorce.

Let the biological mothers keep the kids and cut the fathers out of the picture? I expect fathers have an opinion on that.

What a numnutz.

Church is what does not work.

The bible's definition of marriage does not count in the real world. In the US we are not bound by law to follow the bible, thank god, pun intended.

Interesting statement given that religion has been around for thousands of years, and a society based on homosexual marriage wouldn't last beyond the first generation.

Nobody is advocating that society be "based on" homosexual marriage, only that the rights of all citizens are observed equally. But I'll agree that church does work. That is if you're objective is to exert control over as many people as possible by spreading misinformation and fear.

blessed in MYTHICAL eternity - another fuc king LOSER mentality, eh?

"a society based on homosexual marriage wouldn't last beyond a generation"

No sh1+. No one is saying we should base society on homosexual marriage. But people should have the right to CHOOSE homosexual marriage if that's their preference. Who are you or I to tell them who to love or how to conduct their lives.

And obviously allowing homosexuals to marry doesn't really hinder the reproduction rate, because these two women managed to have a child with the help of a sperm donor. Reproduction achieved. You don't have to be married to someone to reproduce and/or prevent your 'deviant' lifestyle from flourishing for generations to come :P

I love how many pro GLBT people tried to point out all of the problems that a hetero marriage can have, but yet fail to realize that ANYONE can have those problems.

Throw the book at this pos and lock him away for 30 years or more.

The Christian church is the principle enemy of morality. Lisa Miller actually referred to their daughter as a "Christian child". There is no such thing. There may be a "child of Christian parents", but NO child is able to choose his/her religion before the age of 18. Taking any child to a church is nothing less than child abuse, and should be prosecuted vigorously.

The "other mother" has done everything according to the law, and these vile Christian nut zingers have violated state and federal laws repeatedly - and continue to do so.

The only truly immoral people in the world are those that use their faith to harm to others.

The dead end sexual deviants are out in force again. Suppose the mother remarries a heterosexual male and he becomes the woman's daughter adoptive daddy, as life is normally meant to be and provides a stable male figure in the marriage what then? One thing is to go give the sexual deviants rights to enjoy themselves as couples another thing is to support a mistake of nature.

And what if the new heterosexual adoptive daddy meets a Hot heterosexual man-trap like Kim Kardashian, and decides he likes Kim's hills better - and leaves (which happens A LOT in contemporary heterosexual culture).

What happens to the little girl's "stability" then??

"The dead end sexual deviants are out in force again. Suppose the mother remarries a heterosexual male and he becomes the woman's daughter adoptive daddy, as life is normally meant to be and provides a stable male figure in the marriage what then? One thing is to go give the sexual deviants rights to enjoy themselves as couples another thing is to support a mistake of nature."

Oh, lordy. Another ignorant moron barely capable of stringing together a coherent thought in English chimes in a pretends they have the wisdom and knowledge to dictate to others how to live their life. Big surprise. It is always the ones who appear to have the lowest IQ's and the biggest collection of bibles who think they know how other people should live their lives.

Here's a news flash for you: There are a lot of people out there who were raised in absolutely horrible heterosexual households who would probably given anything to have, instead, been raised by a pair of loving homosexuals instead.

And the trauma of being ripped from the life of a mother who loved her and dragged off to Nicaragua was very likely FAR more traumatizing than being raised by a pair of lesbians ever could have been for this little girl.

Who cares about a hypothetical father figure who may or may not have materialized in the future? The true villain in this little girl's life is a mother who traded her child's security for a relationship with an imaginary sky-daddy. What a joke...

eilsen896 try learning sociology, biology and the rules of nature. Stupid asinine comments like yours are right out of the liberal manual.

Nature has made two sexes. It was never intended for two men or two women to raise children. Nature is far from perfect but it is the majority and wisdom which has created a heterosexual society.

It is no surprise to me that you liberals, pro homosexuality bleeding hearts are out in force with your asinine trash. Go down the animal kingdom and you will find that there are males and females and there is no strict homosexual behavior. When it is mating time, males and females come together to mate. Period, that is it. Survival of the fittest. Get the DNA mixture so that nature can select the best of each species to survive and reproduce. Show me where nature can take the best of the homosexuals and make them reproduce? Go argue with nature and tell nature it got it wrong and that lesbians and male homosexuals should be the dominant sexual orientation and then explain it to me. Your completely ridiculous nonsensical, prattle demonstrates a complete lack of intelligence and learning.

Go through 12 years of education, study, readying and understanding why humans were chosen after the destruction of dinosaurs to dominate the planet. Matter of fact go back to the dinosaurs and find out if there were homosexual dinosaurs. Of course not. They were heterosexual and by breeding and having nature do the selection they became the dominant species. No lesbian or homosexual is going to find another lesbian or homosexual to breed with and extend their failed mistake which was caused by nature. Go look up all the lesbians and homosexuals who were geniuses and famous people and find out how many produced children which were able to carry forth their DNA. The answer is simple 0. You are too wound up in you pitiful desire to protect nature's mistakes lesbians and male homosexuals to even begin to understand the necessity of heterosexuals and the scarcity of nature's mistakes. 98% of human women are heterosexual. 96% of human males are heterosexuals. AND according to you, the GREAT EXPERT, there is no reason for that.

eilsen896 You are trying to use pop instant fantasy to drive your inability and lack of intelligence and study. Go back through history thousands of years and read what the experts have published about our ancestors and competing man like creatures and find out why our ancestors won out. It wasn't because of homosexuality and lesbianism. Then go to college, take courses, read books on known written history and the religions and how marriages between men and women came about, arranged, and designed and why. Nature, biology and the environment pushed the best, brightest and most successful of the heterosexual men and women together to form a family to have even more intelligent and successful children. Are you that insipid that you can't do research, read, study conclusions of well known scientists and authors to understand what is human nature and to understand that lesbianism and male homosexuality are nature's errors either through DNA or environmental factors? Nature can not influence, affect or select their spawn to help the human race progress as there is no spawn. Even if 50% of the parents are dysfunctional, that means that 50% is functional in raising children that were chosen by heterosexuals to be born. Having a lesbian go to a clinic and read through a book as to which sperm she wants to buy to be inseminated with is ridiculous. That is not nature, that is a department store. There is nothing in nature in that and then raising the child not as nature intended is even worse. People with your attitude are blatantly ignorant, immoral and unintelligent.

ofcourse1

It is always humorous to me to see/hear obvious bible thumpers try to quote science and nature. The fact of the matter is that humans have EVOLVED beyond the point of having to rely on natural selection and other evolutionary premises to thrive. We have, with our medical meddling and other intervention, made these kinds of primal evolutionary obsolete in our modern society. There is absolutely no need, with the population that is on the planet, for every fertile man/woman to reproduce. In fact, it is highly irresponsible at this point. Overpopulation causes more socioeconomic problems than homosexuality ever could.

And the fact of the matter is that I have never said that people should be gay or that there is something inherently wrong with heterosexual relationships and lifestyles. They are perfectly fine if that is what the people involve choose. However, it is also fine for people to choose to be homosexual. It's none of your business, nor is it any of the government's. These women, who chose artificial insemination to reproduce did nothing wrong, illegal, or immoral. No more so than an infertile couple utilizing IVF to have a kid. The immorality began when one mother kidnapped the couple's chile - not when the child was conceived.



The man helping her may face prison in this world but will be blessed in eternity for doing the right thing.

And that is why people fly airplanes into buildings.

elisem1896 You are part of the assume group. Ass u or me. In this case you are the ass. You can't read and what you do read you can't assimilate. I never mentioned the bible I said NATURE! The two are intertwined and you need to take a course in comparatively religion. You can't discuss something you have no knowledge of and are completely ignorant. Get really enlightened about religion and take courses on the different religions and study how they are similar and different. Study why and how religions came about and why different ethnic groups developed religions and why so many of the thousands of religions are so similar. Just because something is written down to express, maintain and revere thoughts and ideas, does not make it wrong but on the other hand it doesn't make it right. What studying religion does is make a person more aware of history and why there is heterosexuality and its role in human history.

Your lack of insight and outright denial of what the human race has endured and became, heterosexuality, demonstrates your straight jacket mode of thinking. Nature made and makes mistakes with over 7 billion humans, there are genetic and environmental flaws. Lesbianism and male homosexuality are two of them. There is dwarfism, Lou Gehrig's Disease, and a million other genetic errors that affect the human race.

Instead of recognizing and understanding, you applaud and support it. If you are not a homosexual, you are otherwise ignorant. Definitely you are not impartial and support this deviant behavior.

There is nothing wrong with bible thumpers as long as they do it in a manner that does not affect me. I want to hear anything new that someone has to say. BTW I am an agnostic libertarian. So you stretched and badmouthed yourself by assuming my beliefs and knowledge were not the product of education, study and long insight. When the lesbians and male homosexuals yell and scream and make insane statements and carnival side shows caricatures of themselves then I have to wonder why they are not content with their lives and live it to the best of their ability. Can you enlighten me as to why lesbians and male homosexuals have a significantly shorter life span? I know do you?

elisem1896 Your denial of the facts and twisting of history, truths, reality and nature is really laughable. That you go so far to defend an untenable position and resort to insults and personal attacks only demonstrates you inability to clearly think and you lack of intelligent positions to put forth. Its back to the cave to you and your cave drawings. By the way the next time you look at the cave drawings, ask yourself why they are so sexual and why they dwell so much on the pregnant female.

There was no in vitro fertilization in those days (SARCASM) so our ancestors were highly heterosexual.

There are plenty of deviations of nature. Being fat is actually a deviation. It used to be rare to see someone so fat, so rare in fact there was a fat lady at the circus. It's pretty common now. There have always been gay people, there have always been little people and extremely tall people. If we all looked and behaved the same it would make for a boring though more peaceful world since the fear that so many of you have against anyone who is different wouldn't be there since we would all be the same. Of course there are deviants, so what? You talk about the lack of intelligence of others when your own mind can't comprehend or accept a difference in others. The people who speak of the bible have only that to back it up and that had whole books taken out of it not to mention it's been translated so many times by so many people and we KNOW people would never, ever be corrupt enough to add or remove parts to serve their own agendas. (That was sarcasm for people who lack a detector.) This whole argument is pointless. No one's mind can ever be changed here. Either you hate the gays because you have secret proclivities and are afraid they'll lure you in or you think it's a sin or both. The fact of the matter is that justice was served here. She took this woman for a ride, got her to pay for her insemination then broke off and ran with the girl. Nice, I'd say the same thing if she'd done that to a man. Find her and get that girl out of her evil clutches. I was raised by religious nuts, who enjoyed whipping children for even giggling at the dinner table, religion is the only evil in this world.

ofcourse1,

Procreation is not a requirement of sexual activity, nor does being homosexual prevent one from having sex for procreation. It merely defines their natural attraction.

Because homosexuality has been demonstrated in 1500+ natural species (it would only take 1 to prove the point), and such practice was without human interference, it is by the very definition of the word natural.

That you go so far to defend an untenable position and resort to insults and personal attacks only demonstrates you inability to clearly think and you lack of intelligent positions to put forth.

Have you read 1.31? How is that any different?

our ancestors were highly heterosexual.

Citation? Or just a wild guess?

The biology part of the picture is unimportant here.

These two people agreed to become parents. Both of them have equal parental rights under most state laws.

.

I believe that under Vermont law, they were recognized as being in a civil union. Most likely, they both went through adoption proceedings for the girl so that both could be legal parents. And that's what the issue is. It's not a matter of who is the birth mother.

Momofspecialneedschild,

So adoptive parents cannot have custody of their children just because they did not give birth to them? What if a couple who adopted a child divorce. Gotta hunt that birth mom down and return custody to her? You make no sense.

Isabella had a relationship with Janet throughout the formative years of her life. Miller illegally severed that relationship because it did not serve her needs. It was also immoral to separate Isabella from someone she loved and then to tell the poor child that person was going to hell.

Miller is building some seriously bad karma.

I sincerely hope that this criminal Mennonite is introduced firsthand to the tender ministrations of a large gay cellmate.

Poetic justice, eh?

Who knows ... maybe he can be converted.

Why would you wish rape on anyone, Jim? Think for a moment.

Also, men in jail are not "gay." They simply assault others sexually.

It would be interesting if the article included what the Vermont laws are in defining a family. As it stands the courts ruled and it was imprudent for the woman to run or for the pastor to aid her in running with the child.

If the non-birth mother had a legal document of adoption that defined her as a second parent or guardian then the child was stolen and the bio-mom should return and abide by the courts. This is a legal matter not a religious matter. The church should have stood back and accepted their portion of separation of Church and State.

If no such detailed legal arrangement were made then the birth mother should have all rights to raise the child in any way that she sees fit and should be free to take her daughter anywhere she wishes and to determine for herself what level of contact, if any, the ex-partner has with the child.

This situation would equate to a step-parent situation. If an adoption does not exist a step parent has no right or responsibility to a child from outside the marriage.

I though it interesting that the author stated that the non-birth parent financed the invetro...that would have no bearing as those would be shared assets of the marriage and so would not be attributed totally to either partner rather to both. It is unreasonable to believe that the non-birth mother has any claim to the child by virtue of the cost of invetro. One cannot "purchase" a child in the United States. Giving birth to a child and adopting a child are the only options that would give the non-birth mother any legal right or responsibility over the child.

I suppose the only other way I can think of that would give the non-birth mother any say over the child would be "if" the birth mother tried to petition the non-birth mother for child support. That would indicate that both women were primary in the child's life.

If you did a search of the names of the parties, you would find earlier articles on this matter, including ones about the original custody battle and the battles in the Virginia and Vermont courts. When the custody issue was first raised in Vermont, the judge (I think his name was Cohen) told Miller's side that, since they were married in the state of Vermont according to its laws, the child is considered a "product of the marriage," just as with any other married couple, and that Jenkins would not have to formally adopt the child in order to be considered a parent of that child -- just as a husband in an opposite-sex marriage is considered to be the "father" of a child that is conceived through IVF or AI, although he may have no biological connection to that child.

Erin I would think that fair and reasonable that both mothers should share equally in raising a child. If the precedent has been set and a standard exists for IVF then that is the law. The bio-mom is certainly guilty in the courts of kidnapping the child. She and the child should be returned to the state of Vermont and the bio-mom should be held accountable. The other mom should receive custody of the child.

What a sadness for this child and any others who are at the mercy of a parent who cannot think beyond their own benefit to consider first and foremost the benefit of the child. I hope the other mother can do a better job of parenting on behalf of the child first.

Momof... Your selfish, homophobic opinion, which you're absolutely entitled to, makes me cringe. While you are asking for prayers so that the child might continue to be held in hiding thereby giving her time to decide whether she wants a relationship with her other "mother" (yes, as she is known to the child) showing great, motherly concern for the child's welfare, you apparently condone the multiple violations of state and federal laws by a "pastor" and her biological mother to defy court orders to do what they want to do. These are not the kind of people I would want ANY child in the custody of EVER or exposed to for any amount of time!

I realize it's a real issue with many "Christians" and other organized religious groups, especially those I know personally who tell me how "good a Christian" they are. Apparently whether the child was adopted legally by both women in their state of residence means nothing because of both being female. So the non-biological mother, as recognized by law, should have no parental rights in the eyes of (pick one) the church and the drastic actions taken by some religious zealots is completely justified. Yes?

This child has already been exposed to a lifetime of grief and psychological damage by her biological mother and church members at the ripe old age of 10. I try not to assume anything but I have a pretty good idea about this one. Without even having ALL the details regarding this case, seeing what biological mom has put her daughter through (again, I don't know how much, if anything you know about all of the details available), used the church to further her mission of denying Janet joint custody at any cost, would you be able to sit with Janet and make YOUR case to her justifying your statement of "I would have done the same thing in her case..."? Could you honestly look her in the eye and tell her she's unfit to be the adoptive mother because of her sexual preference, regardless that the courts originally granted joint custody and were about to give Janet full custody because of "biological" mom's behavior refusing to obey the laws and conditions laid down by the court.

Forget about the "moms". Think about the child's welfare and try to leave any religious bigotry out of it. What is best for the child? With the choices available in this situation, with what you know about it, you honestly could deny, not just Janet, but the child some sort of a stable life she's been denied up to this point because of her biological mother's actions. Without ever having met her, talked to her, researched her in any way, you'd rather hide the girl with lawbreaking religious fanatics or put her into "the system"; a life of foster care and no stability or sense of family to look forward to after all of this. This is why I walked away from organized religion years ago, when I was finally old enough to think for myself and start asking questions. I wish more people would and not just impose their blind faith on others regardless of the consequences.

Sorry to babble, but you're it, got me started. Best wishes. Maybe something to think about, or not.

Religious people are some of the most gullible when you play to their religious beliefs and misconceptions.

Too true Sandy! I use that trick against the thumpers all the time. You can say the stupidest thing with an invocation of jebus and they all say AMEN!

@Maxine - you come off as such an idiot on paper. Keep trolling!

This is an example of what religious people do to children. And they claim that gays and lesbians are unfit. Give me a stinking break.

She should've just taken the $50 g's and ran. Bought her a little Russian kid for $1000.00 been on her way to Nicaragua with a pocketful of money, got her a maid and cook living like a Queen over there for $300.00 a month.

Maxine, your comments are unintelligible. May we take it that English is not your first language?

Not that it is germane, but every time I see that picture of Miller I want to smack her. I swear I can hear her snivelling, whiny voice.

In fact Miller has already lost legal custody.

Exactly, skrekk. That is what this is all about. Miller played games with court ordered visitation until the judge got tired of her violating orders and awarded custody to the child's other parent. That is when she took off with the assistance of this so-called "pastor". She is looking at jail time too, if they find her and extradite her. Custody orders can be enforced across international lines.

Miller lost legal custody when she refused to allow the other PARENT to have time with the child. That's why she ran.

I hope Pastor Miller gets along well with his cell mate.

Gibberish.

Would someone care to translate that post for me? Never mind. I don't think I want to know.

What exactly, are you an expert in? LOL

She's definitely not an expert in the English language.

What kind of "professional" are you?

Where did you get your education?

W T F did she just say?

You have to ask yourself, how does someone like Maxine get access to, and figure out how to use, the internet...? I just went to her page and clicked ignore.
I am less impressed with many of my fellow human beings on a daily basis. Thank goodness we have the Web to open our eyes to a sad truth... people like Maxine (and these religious zealots who think they are above the law) get to vote... no wonder we are where we are today. (No politics intended folks - just a commentary of the intelligence level of many we see on these pages daily.)
Who's up for a trip to Nicaragua? Bet we could find her!

Maxine:: What planet did you come from? Whichever it is, evidently they don't speak English. If you are a native of America, you must have dropped out of school in first grade.

LOL

Court papers naming them as legal parent does.

It has nothing to do with paying for it. Did you even read the article? Under the law, they were a couple after 2000, and therefore were both PARENTS in 2002 when Isabella was born. Whether you agree or not, they were legally a couple in the eyes of the law.

Lisa Miller and Jenkins entered a civil union in Vermont in 2000. According to court records, Jenkins paid $50,000 to facilitate in vitro fertilization, which led to Lisa Miller giving birth to Isabella in 2002.

Exactly where in the Bible does it say, "Ye shall assist in kidnapping a child and violating court custody orders"?

Different points in this discussion - 1: Taking a child to church is child abuse? I have met parents who take their childreon to a bar - a Honky Tonk. So taking a child to a synagogue or mosque or temple would also be child abuse - 2: Lisa Miller used the other woman for artificial insemination? Could Lisa not have a child biologically any other way? Do we know that information? Why wasn't Janet ever inseminated? 3: Lisa Miller became a Mennonite in Nicaragua just to have her way? I've been to Nicaragua - they are just beyond the stone age compared to the States.

I agree with you up until you get to the point of saying that our SECULAR and CIVIL government operates under ANY divine authority. Your are incorrect in that. Our government is not tied to ANY religion and the founding fathers did that deliberately. They were NOT Christians - they were Deists who believed in a higher power but they did NOT hold with the Christian faith. Nobody's god has any business in the governing of our country - not yours, not mine (and I have more than one), not the Muslims', not the Jewish god, not Buddha, NO god.

Agreed. Let's not forget that separation of church and state is there to protect religion, including Christians. They will appreciate that when the time comes that Christianity is no longer the majority religion in the United States.

PD, you NEED to read the OTHER part of the scriptures. Apostle Peter addressed this when he said: "We'd rather obey God than man". Yes, Christians are supposed to obey the "law", BUT if those "laws" interfere with God's laws and commandments, then God's laws come first. The scripture that I just quoted, clearly shows this. And to the person who thinks that I am scared of jail, I could care LESS. The apostles went to jail AFTER they were TOLD not to preach the gospel. They were in essence "breaking the law". I could care LESS about breaking the law, if it interferes with God's commandments then guess what, jail for me !!

Elder ... go ahead and try that. I'm sure your cell mate will LOVE you.

Elder:: I'm still trying to find out something and noone has explained it to me. Who wrote the bible? It was some mortal men. The book was written thousands of years after. How did those men know just what happened and who said what thousands of years before they wrote the book? And don't tell me that the guy in the sky told them just what to write.

Elder, would you mind pointing me toward the passage in the Bible that says, "Ye shall assist in kidnapping and violation of court custody orders"?

How is different from breaking the law when any illegal entering this country can get a job and a driver's license and medical coverage?

At least this woman moved away to get a second chance in life, kudos to her on wanting to raise her daughter away from such perversions.

Leslie, first learn the difference between their and they're. And what does the Catholic Church or Jerry Sandusky have to do with this? No child has ANY business being put in a sexually PERVERTED relationship. If you REALLY "believe" that, then you need MUCH prayer and counseling. The wrong people are being put in jail. Now use a little COMMON SENSE along with some COMMON DECENCY! Remember those words ?!!

Generally speaking, people who capitalize whole words in their rants to make a point are considered childish and idiotic. Elder Verdell, your comments only helps strengthen the image of the preachy religious nut who demands the world share his rules, and who's aggressive behavior tells of a bizarre jealousy of his opposition.

Abducting a child and violating a court order is "doing the right thing"?

Breakiing the law and violating child custody orders is doing the right thing?

Hope you have friends that will visit you in jail.

Breaking God's laws and DECENCY and MORALITY is doing the "right thing"?

You WILL have friends in HELL. Remember that place? Because that is where people who break God's laws will end up. Read your Bible. If you don't have one, I will gladly send you one for free and I will highlight the relevant scriptures so you won't fumble in your attempt to grasp the basics of RIGHT and WRONG, HOLY and UNHOLY.

Then I will send it back with verses highlighted that contradict every verse you had highlighted. The Bible contradicts itself so much it's not even funny. Also, a single verse taken out of context doesn't mean anything.

Elder:: God's laws? I don't find a thing that says that the guy in the sky wrote that book-- or he came back thousands of years later and whispered into the ears of those mortal men just what to say and who and when something was said.

So far, Elder, I can count at least 6 times that you have been amoral and indecent in your posts.

How many people hire illegal aliens even to do odd jobs here and there, it's still illegal, at least the Pastor helped the woman and that was brave.

This is the reasn I believe we should not have same sex marriages. I tried to explain it to a family member who had become quite upset with me for having this opinion. But this is exactly the problem. Who gets the children? The partner who bore the chikd? Was the sperm from a family member of the other life partner? If so, does that give equal right of parenthood? Write in the agreement---Whichever person bears the child (if males, whichever one donates the sperm) has dominate rights of parenthood. No, not the one who gives money for the 'event'. No, it is not quite right, but---?

This is the reasn I believe we should not have same sex marriages.

This is idiocy. Laws already exist to determine who has rights to children. Because these two were legally in a civil union and both were legally equal in standing to the child, there was no question under the law, hence why both courts ruled as they did.

Sperm donors sign away any rights to children conceived by their sperm, as do egg donors. Surrogates also sign documents detailing their status in regards to any children they bear for the purpose of surrogacy.

Breaking God's laws and DECENCY and MORALITY is doing the "right thing"?

Sure, considering your god is one of the most indecent and immoral characters imagined!

You WILL have friends in HELL.

Good. Then we'll have a party. I'll bring the beer! See you there.

Because that is where people who break God's laws will end up.

That's nice. prove it!

Read your Bible. If you don't have one, I will gladly send you one for free and I will highlight the relevant scriptures so you won't fumble in your attempt to grasp the basics of RIGHT and WRONG, HOLY and UNHOLY.

No thanks. i already have enough books of fairy tales.

oh oh oh !!! i want one !!! pick me !! give me one !!

but wait.. which one ?? aren't there a bunch of different books and versions ? there's the old testament.. the new one.. king james version... and that's just the tip of the iceberg.. there's many versions !

which one is supposed to be correct ? is that the one your sending ? the correct one ??

I'm really sorry to see people poke fun at the Bible or take it lightly! All these "natural disasters" happening in the world today are coming for the end...read Revelation in KJV only! GOD predicted all these things would happen years ago and here they are!!! Wake up or you will be HOT....FLAMING hot for eternity. My dad is 80 years old and I finally woke up and started to believe him and the word! It took some time.....but its worth it. Be Blessed.

! All these "natural disasters" happening in the world today are coming for the end...read Revelation in KJV only!

It's statements like that that causes people to poke fun at the bible or take it lightly. because that's completely ludicrous!

GOD predicted all these things would happen years ago and here they are!!!

Natural disasters have always been happening. thanks to the information age, we simply are more aware of them.

Wake up or you will be HOT....FLAMING hot for eternity.

And fear mongering is neither convincing or persuasive!

I finally woke up and started to believe him and the word!

That's your perogative. I don't buy into such nonsense however!

Irresponsible birth mothers lose custody of their kids every day in courts across the country. This case is no different, except that one parent chose to violate numerous court orders, chose to abduct a child, and chose to become an international fugitive.

The jury didn't take custody from the birth mother and give it to the non-birth mother. A family court judge did, based on the fact that the birth mother repeatedly broke the law by violating visitation orders. She is a criminal. And now she is a fugitive. And she is selfishly taking any chance her child has for a normal childhood by making this child a fugitive as well.

custody trials are not tried before a jury

You have taken both stupidity and the bastardization of the English language to unseen new heights with your posts.

I can only hope you are not registered to vote.

Maxine:: " She is old enough practice on her brother or sister". You mean you let your daughter practice having sex on her brother or sister? That's what it looks like you have said. But then, I speak and write English. What language do you speak?

@ Susie-2759697 Grow up. I see you throughout this whole argument just placing idiotic comments to try and stir up trouble. You probably think you are being cute, but it truly is juvenile.

What the hell was that?! Put down the crack pipe before posting!

If we are lucky he will become someones bitch toy while he is in there and learn the error of his ways.

nate-731844 - This guy will serve 6 months and be out and back to his normal life

For the international kidnapping of a child and aiding a fugitive? He'll likely get 3 years on the first count alone (18 USC 1204).

25 years? did you even read the article. He is facing a MAX of 3 years. dummy

Hey Sandy,

just like a liberal to promote rape and anal sex. go enjoy a turkish snowcone

He won't even go to prison.

poisonivy85 - He won't even go to prison.

LOL.....what are you smoking?

Its Vermont, lmao child molesters get probation in Vermont. He won't go to prison. They'll release him from jail time served.

yeah, they will make him go work at the build a bear workshop. which could ctually be worse than prison

Nate, it's not a liberal position but an eye for an eye position. This guy raped and stole this poor woman's and her child's life from her. So he should have the same thing done to him so he can feel similar devastation and loss. It's the christian thing to do.

You're gonna have to back that one up with some actual cases of convicted child molesters, poison ivy. Otherwise, I call BS.

What are you smoking Sandy?

The pastor didn't rape her, maybe the butch woman she was "married" towas abusive and he saved the woman and the child from the lesbian "spouse".

He did the right thing and now the woman is going to raise the child in a normal healthy environment, kudos for him and for the woman to change her ways.

Another victory over evil.

Judge Edward Cashman look up his cases.

@ Sandy, Missouri - You are one sick woman. I am amazed that you would actually encourage and hope for the rape of another human being! With your kind of thinking I think we are all better off that you were made a woman. Had you been a man you might be in prison now for rape yourself. The degradation of man never ceases to amaze.

You've been doing way too much crack.

STFU, seriously.

Put the keyboard down and back away Maxine. You're going to hurt yourself with all those random letters you're stringing together in a futile attempt to approximate written thought.

Some times it's better to just admit defeat and go back to something you CAN do...maybe stack blocks? (not the kind with the alphabet, though)

the lesbian will never get the girl. she is in Nicaragua and even though it has a extradition treaty with US it does not have mutual assistance treaty with us. That means that the Nicaraguan govt isnt going to help us. She is safe as safe can be.

And you don't think that some "Dog the Bounty Hunter" type isn't already down there looking for them, Nate?

Whats he gonna do when he finds them? Nicaragua, will throw his a$$ in jail. I don't think the jails in Nicaragua, are as comfy as ours.

Extradition treaty is all that's necessary. The mother is guilty of international kidnapping. She took a child she did not have custody of and left the country.

And, there are other ways to get children back. Plenty of custodial parents have, with government assistance, gone into other countries and retreived the children they have legal custody of.

How does this differ from a heterosexual couple where the man is infertile?

Fortunately the courts don't share your ignorant bigotry.

you know there are other terms we can use for Skrekk that end in "got"

Nate, you sound scared. It's interesting how often those who would curse another person for their lifestyle choices tend to be the most outrageous hypocrites. Sinners in priests' clothing.

yeah....im real scared...lol WTF By the way..we are all sinners. however some sins are worse than others. just remember when you call people names, be prepared to be called one back and take it like a man who pretends to be a woman.

Nate seems to think that only gays support gay rights. What a bigoted nutball.

shrekk, truth, times two.

I see the homophobes have come out from under their rocks to voice their ignorant opinions.

I'm sure you would. When was the last time you got laid? 2005?