Im for better gun control, but not in the way of taking away peoples fire arms. I do however strongly believe that you should not be allowed to own a firearm unless you can show that you know how to operate it correctly. I know this is not a complete post and leaves room for counter points. I just don't feel like typing everything out for the millionth time.

You are very wrong, Marla. The last thing we need is liberals and conservatives having gun fights in the streets. But it may be coming to that.

Just a question Sam, but you have a point and what I'd like to know is why shouldn't we feel the same way about voter i.d.'s? Both voting and the right to bear arms are both Constitutional Rights, but shouldn't some reasonable measures for prevention of abuse of the system be allowed in both cases?

Agreed Sam. It amazes me how many people don't know how involved the NRA is in pushing for and helping narrate these laws. Waiting period for handguns, banning fully automatic weapons, etc....those were all supported by the NRA. Nobody thinks everyone should have a bazooka and oozie at home.

Mr. Burke, happy to hear I'm wrong.

Sam-- I hear you. Arguing the same thing over and over is tiring, for sure. I get your point-- thank you.

I'm really not Republican, here-- but I am conservative. I hope I'm wrong, and people here are proving it. I'm cynical for sure-- hard not to be these days.

Getting a grip, though-- :)

Marla, the fact that there are violent extremists in all political directions does not change the fact that they all use guns.

I'm sorry that the security guard got shot. My condolences to his family and I hope he recovers. I hope this incident shows that gun violence happens to everyone, even to conservatives. The man got shot because where he worked. I would like to think that something like this would be a wake up call to everyone that we need better controls on who gets guns and what type of guns. I'm in a state with very little restrictions on who can get a gun. You more or less just need to show a driver's license, not have any felony or multiple misdemeanor charges, and you can get a gun permit. There needs to be more than that. You should have to take gun safety classes and actually prove that you need a gun for either personal safety or for hunting purposes. After the recent violence, you should also have to prove that you are mentally able to handle the responsibility of gun ownership as well.

no, I know that, Jock-- thanks for the reply.

Yep, you're wrong.

I'm happy to hear it, PA-- while I'm not a proponent of stricter gun control, I detest hypocrisy. I'm very gratified by what I've seen here.

I know there are hacks out there-- really impressed by those that have responded. Thank you, all.

Unfortunately there are some attempting to justify this attack as OK...because they do not like the position of the FRC....

I'm liberal but I don't know that gun control is the answer. However, I can tell you that no one I associate with, liberal or conservative (and I hang out with a lot of different types) wants anyone's office shot up, no matter what they believe in. And I'm not sorry that the security guard got shot - they shot him in the arm and stopped him. Good. That's not vigilantism, it's just what police must do sometimes. He's not dead, so maybe he can say WTF he was thinking, and we can prevent this kind of thing.

O'Reilly said it best about the killings and shoots:

By Bill O'Reilly

"Bad things happen to good people all the time. Nobody knows why. It's just the way life is. Once again, we have mass murder in America and the killer is a young man who was simply out of his mind. It's nobody's fault. There is no policy deficit. It's just an atrocity that's impossible to explain."

Oops, sorry, I thought that it was the security guard who shot at the office! I should learn to read...

Ed Burke-3968875

You are very wrong, Marla. The last thing we need is liberals and conservatives having gun fights in the streets. But it may be coming to that.

Yes my worst fear is that if people can't find some civil way of dealing with thier differences that violent rhetoric will become just plain violence. No matter who was killed this is still a tragedy. I don't stop having compassion for people just because I may dissagree with them politically.

CNORTON:

An idiotic statement, probably from an idiot. Except for constitutional stated, there is no correlation between the right to bear arms and the right to vote Give me just one incident that voting has ever killed an individual, let alone MASS murder. Your statement is just plain stupid. Now, about the voter IDs. I have no problem with the idea as long as those that proposes such restrictions don't wait until a few months before an election trying to implement such a rule. Also the rule should apply to all citizen of America. The people that proposed the ID rules did not impose their rules during their primary elections. They also picked and chose the people they would make the requirements for. Yeah, yeah, I know, you don't find anything wrong with any of that, of course???? An ignorant statement does not bring enlightment!!!!

WinWin and Charles: Let's just say for the sake of argument that voter fraud is so rare that it hasn't hurt anyone.... yet. Why not go ahead and put reasonable measures in place while the issue is on the table? If there's no reason to be alarmed then what's the harm? As far as voting being harmless..... you ask about how many thousands of people are affected by gun violence? How many tens of millions of people could be affected by the wrong person or people in office? How many millions have been killed? Ask any Jew that last question or you can check out Iraq, Iran, Egypt, or any other number of war torn countries or previously war torn countries in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. You can't ask a Chinese citizen how dangerous a corrupt government can be though, they'll be jailed and shot for answering you honestly. Remember the former U.S.S.R.? Italy in the 30's and 40's? Politicians have killed more people than guns ever will. If you need a more modern, homegrown example, then see LBJ and Vietnam for reference. A vote can be a much more deadly thing than a gun. Take a look at any country that has had to deal with massive voter fraud and rigged elections and then try and not be so naive as to think it couldn't possibly happen here.

Rule of Nines:

Which ass did you pull that one out of? The one on your hips or the one on your shoulders? Would be interested to find out!

I am a conservative who is all for the idea of a more indepth background check on gun purchasing including any mental problems.

But, then what? John Smith passed his psych exam 5 years ago when he got his permit to have a gun. Since that time his wife left him because he started drinking heavily. He's drinking and growing more and more depressed. His job becomes affected because he can't stop drinking, so now he's lost his job as well. Now he STILL has his gun permit, but now his mental health has gone down the tubes.

Will the fact that he passed his psych exam 5yrs ago matter any when he goes back to his former place of business and blows away his boss and 4-5 former co-workers? Or he goes to his ex-wife's house and kills her, their 2 kids, and her sister just to finish the job?

So many things can happen to a person from one year to the next, that unless we're planning on giving yearly psych exams on gun holders I don't see how those background checks will accomplish much.

Charles-1820634 - Give me just one incident that voting has ever killed an individual, let alone MASS murder.

I will mention one name - Hitler, but of course there is also Stalin, Mao......

@WinWin4All

Voter ID laws can stop millions of eligible registered voters from voting, all in the name of preventing a problem that does not exist.

And this is based on fact or what is perceived to be fact? Because the results of a study can go either way depending on who is paying for the facts and who is reporting it For instance Obama claims to have created all these millions of jobs and the liberal media reports it as gospel truth but yet unemployment continues to grow without even factoring in the amount of people who's benefits have expired. So tell me who are these millions who will not be able to vote? Illegals and minors? because most everyone else has I.D how are they cashing their paychecks,unemployment checks, welfare checks, etc

Hey LookingForward, don't quote Billyboy O'RealY. Lies and distorts facts all the time. Yea bad things happen to good people but when someone has a semi-auto assault weapon thousands of rounds of ammo and a 100 round magazine. ALOT of bad things happen to ALOT of good people.

to boredofitall: Give me just one incident that voting has ever killed an individual, let alone MASS murder.

The Voting in the 2008 election killed our whole country; not just one person.

(Im going to respond to two people with one point)

@Allen- The waiting period (background check) is rather useless in telling if someone should be allowed to operate a gun. For example, I purchased my first hand gun online(shipped to my local FFL). Went in and filled in some minor paper work and 3 days later walked out gun in case. As far as anyone knew, I had never shot a gun before, and yet was able to walk out w/o a care in the world. Luckily i'm not crazy, and have been going once a week to the range. Although im happy to own my first gun, im just slightly afraid at how easy it was to obtain it. I stand by my point that you need to show that you can operate a gun correctly before being allowed to take it home. (Continued in 2nd reply)

@CNORTON- Comparing the right to own a gun to the right to vote is a non-substantial comparison. Voting doesn't kill people (alteast not in the USA). I would compare owning a gun to that of owning car. Except owning and operating a car is far more regulated than anything else we do or own. Ive never walked onto a car lot and purchased a car w/o showing that I have a valid drivers license and insurance. Personal sales are still somewhat regulated, but I don't think the owner is gonna let you test drive w/o a drivers license.

I didn't really want to get into all this, since we still haven't talked about criminals (using guns an cars). Thats a entire discussion on its own.

When you keep attacking someone, sooner or later, that someone will react.
The FRC has been attacking folks for years, maybe this is the start of that reaction. If the Family Research Council would just mind its own business and not try to screw with other people's unalienable rights, maybe they wouldn't even feel the need to have security guards in the first place.

Ok people this should send out a very clear warning as to what is going on in this nation. We have always been looked at as the Nation to immigrate to. Why? Because the USA has always been known for being the freest place on earth. A nation where you can come here with only a dream and the clothes on your back and make your way here. Over the decades we have fought for fair civil rights for all races, gender, religion,etc. We have always been somewhat divided over ideology from the left to the right.

What we need to ask ourselves today. Are we more United today then we where only 3 and half years ago, or are we more divided. I say we are more divided since Obama has become President. Obama goes to all black conventions and gets the race card going and brings more hate and discontent than any other President has ever. He has divided this nation right down ideological lines and race lines. I live in Portland, Oregon. I have witnessed an outright attack by African Americans on White Americans. One instant a black man reached in a white business man's suit pocket and stole the guys wallet and no one did anything about it. In fact the Police never showed up on the call. It happened on a Public Transportation system Tri-Met. What Obama is doing is causing a class warfare and he doesn't care who he hurts to keep the Presidency. Your Choice this November is an obvious choice. Do you want Freedom or More Govt. Regulations which leads into Socialism or Communism. The Choice is ours. Do we want this nation to be destroyed by the likes of those who hate what this country was founded on. Do we want to keep the Greatest Most Free Nation Alive! Like I have always said, its stupid people with weapons that kill people, not the weapon.

Just think of this for a moment. Do you want a civil war? Because that is what Obama would like to happen, then he can use Executive Powers to remain in office because of a National Emergency. I have said this will be his last ploy. I still believe this and that Obama really wants this nation to fall! You don't believe me then stay tuned. You will see as we get closer to November's election.

Allen968499: NRA supported ban on fully automatic weapons

False. First, fully automatic weapons are not banned; possession by private U.S. citizens is allowed by the National Firearms Act of 1934. Secondly, NRA has never supported a full-auto ban because owners of the over 180,000 registered full auto weapons have proved themselves to be the most responsible of all gun owners. Since 1934, there have been only 2 (two) homicides committed by NFA weapons (one was by a police officer).

Janine-1645002

I see what you are saying. A lot can happen in a few years. Maybe mandatory gun training and mental evaluation every, say, 2-3 years? I don't know what the answer would be.

I believe it should be illegal to buy a gun online. Just my opinion. There need to be better background checks in place and maybe a longer waiting period? I know that doesn't solve the problems, just brainstorming. It's a tough subject but one that needs to be addressed. I whole heartedly support the right to bear arms, but some things need to be re-examined and better laws protecting the public in place.

I would compare owning a gun to that of owning car. Except owning and operating a car is far more regulated than anything else we do or own. Ive never walked onto a car lot and purchased a car w/o showing that I have a valid drivers license and insurance. Personal sales are still somewhat regulated, but I don't think the owner is gonna let you test drive w/o a drivers license.

You don't have a Constitutional right to drive; you DO have a Constitutional right to bear arms. And with the SCOTUS's recent ruling in "D.C. v. Heller," you will have a much harder time putting any kind of restriction on gun ownership - like telling someone "sorry, you're too mentally disturbed to own a gun." You could say that to anyone about anything. Psych evaluation before purchase? Likely overly burdensome. Be able to operate a gun??? I don't think the gun accidentally discharged, so what does THAT have to do with anything? Personally, I think the security guards are the BEST solution, instead of taking guns away from the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners who aren't psychotic and won't go postal in a pubic building, maybe we should look at what those security guards did RIGHT and see if we can implement THAT on a larger scale. As for the Batman shooter, putting restrictions on high-capacity clips is not an unreasonable infringement. AR-15's are actually pretty hard to get already, requiring a specific license, AND they are pretty expensive. (If they weren't, I'd probably own one myself.) Don't know what kind of gun the FRC shooter used, some type of handgun I believe, but "D.C. v. Heller" already said banning an entire class of weapons (i.e., handguns) is unconstitutional, so THAT idea is out.

My daughter would like to "have a conversation" about the possibility of gun control legislation, just to see if any good ideas can come up. I say it's impossible for this country to "have a conversation" about ANY subject; we're too divided and hate each other too much. We'd rather blame and flame than even TRY to talk. As long as everyone is shouting (mostly insults) at each other, there's no possibility of a "conversation" taking place.

A liberal with a gun? I thought all libs were too chicken sh** to go out of the house. Where are all you wacko's who like to blame everything on the tea party? I blame this on Obama and Biden and their campaign of hate. Whenever you libs decide to take it to the next level though, we are very ready.

Whenever you libs decide to take it to the next level though, we are very ready.

Follow us any time you think you have the stones to!

This doesn't change my stance either way. We still don't need assault weapons, 100 round drum magazines, 30 round magazines for handguns, or any other foolish thing that can only be used to perform a mass shooting.

To those people that insist that their assault rifle is better for hunting, I invite them to come hunting with me. I'll take that elk at 400 yards with my bolt action while their rounds are landing in a 10' radius of the target. I'll take it with 1 shot, too, unlike palin, who couldn't hit a moose with her first 3.

No one is coming for my guns, but then, I don't buy guns that are made to fight a war either.

I do, however, invite the kooks with their assault rifles to put up a good fight when the Feds show up to ask them why they have cases of assault rifles. The sound you just heard was an fa-18 dropping a 1000lb smart bomb on your compound.

C Norton, don't worry, the Florida Supreme Court will straighten it all out and see that your candidate wins!

Ok Another Deadbeat Texasan get through with your words , there is nothing wrong with being conservetive,I've been around libreals and they claim to be kind and generous but instead they were the meanest people i've ever met and they don't mind curseing you either. they want to be heard, want things their way. well can't have everything your way.

CNORTON and others,

In the last 12 years something like 10 people have been caught voting in person illegally. 10 cases divided by 12 years equals .833 of one case per year. .833 case per year divided by 50 states equals .016 cases per state per year. LESS THAN TWO HUNDREDTHS OF ONE PERSON PER STATE PER YEAR. Illegal voting almost always is done by people with valid ID issued to them by the state:ie drives licenses. They vote illegally because they don't live where their license address says they do. Like in Indiana where a GOP state politician was caught voting in a district where he did not live but his ID said he did. We have had voter ID for some time here. So one voter ID laws don't actually catch anyone. Two, most vote fraud occurs in early voting absentee ballots where no ID is required and no one actually shows up to vote. In Indiana my state we can get our licenses on line and by mail so no one really checks on the address information being accurate. All one needs is the ability to get the license mailed to the fraudlent address and the ID check at the polls is beaten. In person voter fraud is a myth. It's about supressing the vote of those you don't want voting for your opponent. Just like poll taxes and literacy tests.

I wouldn't advise anyone of ANY political persuasion to try and "take it to the next level" with me, and I don't need a gun to make that statement. I'm sick as Hell of those who can't be reasonable in the discussion of important issues regardless of which side of the political aisle they reside on.

Exactly what did this F**KING MORON hope to accomplish in attacking the FRC?? Did he think he was going to enlighten closed minds by killing INNOCENT people ??? I'm thankful this incident was no worse than it was, and wish for a speedy recovery for the guard who was DOING HIS JOB, not representing any political viewpoint.

I personally feel we are long overdue for a serious discussion on limiting military style weapons and accessories like high capacity magazines, as well as having some reasonable regulation of internet commerce when it comes to firearms and ammunition. I strongly support the Second Amendment but with that RIGHT comes responsibility.

Federal officials said the suspect was carrying a backpack containing materials related to Chick-fil-A restaurants.

Well it will be really interesting to see if a crime by a black man against a conservative group will be considered a hate crime. This one is REALLY going to put the principles of liberals to the test. He had literature in the backpack which would seem to indicate he was driven by hatred toward the ideals of the organization he walked into. BUT, he's black and the organization he attacked was conservative.... What to do, what to do......

i was on another page and there were two comments that were on there and they had a very interesting point. All of these shootings cannot be a coincidence. They had listed some political reasons as to why these shootings keep occuring. And one of their main reason, which I agree wholeheartedly, was that an anti-gun organization could behind all of these shootins doing their best to get their agenda accomplish as to where we cannot own guns as citizens. And I more convinced now more than ever that they are behind these shootings. Which this is really sad. Because we need our second amendment and every citizen derves to have the right to defend theselves. And if they keep this up then their mission wii get accomplished. For then it will be very hard to own a gun and not only that they may make dangerous changes to the second amendment. But my thing is if you hate the fact that we have the right to bear arms so much then why not move to another country where they dont have that right and let the rest of us enjoy our right and our freedoms.

If I recall, DC used to have a handgun ban until the court struck it down, though it's hard for a city to enforce a ban on something that you can easily get just by crossing over into a neighboring state or setting up a meeting on the internet.

As for this man, violence is never a justifiable reaction to speech. Even the vile speech of a hate group is protected by the first amendment, and no one should ever have to fear for their safety because they choose to speak their mind. FRC has a right to be wrongheaded, and we have a right to oppose them with our own speech, but not with guns or rocks or fists.

Take a look at any country that has had to deal with massive voter fraud and rigged elections and then try and not be so naive as to think it couldn't possibly happen here.

A) There is no "massive voter fraud" in the U.S.!

B) If anyone is trying to rig elections by limiting who can vote and who can't it's the GOP.

I don't mind showing my ID for anything- and I sure's a hell don't mind showing it to vote- nothing to hide? Show your ID. Can't afford one? I call BS- but nice try......

@DG_W

A) There is no "massive voter fraud" in the U.S.!

B) If anyone is trying to rig elections by limiting who can vote and who can't it's the GOP.

The only thing harder to prove than voter fraud is voter suppression via ID laws. Funny how you are against one since it can't be proven but you state the other as if it were fact even though there is even less evidence to back that.

Well FRC is an anti-family hate group so I guess they got whats coming to them. This is what happens when you try to take peoples rights away.

I wish this post wouldn't of been collapsed, I think everyone needs to see what many of these sick F k$ think.

No, I disagree with group but you should never use violence.

No, this guy doesn't represent what we stand for.

No, although I disagree with the group I'm glad no one was killed.

Nop, you all just continue to spew your junk and hate like any other day. Pathetic.

On its website, FRC, founded in 1983, says it advocates "faith, family and freedom in public policy and public opinion."

What they mean is bigotry, hypocracy and control...too bad he didn't make it inside. F@ck lobbyists.

Gee Allen,

When RW NRA supporters say that if the victims of a shooting would have survived if they had been armed, or that college students should be armed to protect themselves, then I would think that they think EVERYONE sould have guns. Of course I am sure that they would prefer that liberals and colored folk didn't have them.

Well it will be really interesting to see if a crime by a black man against a conservative group will be considered a hate crime.

Why drag race into it?

This is a beliefs crime. The shooter didn't like a religious based group nosing its beliefs into politics. While that in no way makes the shooting right, and this person should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, we can't just lump this into a racially motivated crime.

This was a crime based on the fact that this person didn't like the beliefs of a group. Had the guard been Black, Asian, or otherwise, they would still have been shot trying to detain the shooter. His end goal wasn't to shoot a guard.

Mark my words. I've been saying for a while now that, given the lefts historical propensity for physical violence, we could expect this from them when things don't go their way politically. Their intolerance is monumental (heavy on the "mental") and extremely vicious towards any one that crosses their ideological threshold! We need to be prepared for major leftist/liberal Democrats "hateful disturbances of violence" when barry obambaloney loses in Nov.

rae-1629223

On its website, FRC, founded in 1983, says it advocates "faith, family and freedom in public policy and public opinion." What they mean is bigotry, hypocracy and control...too bad he didn't make it inside. F@ck lobbyists.

See what I mean - thank you rae-1629223 - your post validated my point posted at #3.53!

Keep in mind that the constitutional right of individuals to own guns is a very recent Supreme Court interpretation. Previously the Supreme Court interpreted the right to belong to militias. True, reversing SCOTUS interpretations is rare and often takes several generations (Plessy vs. Ferguson followed decades later by Brown v. Board of Education) but is not impossible--which, of course, is what pro-lifers hope for.

The immediate connection between individual and harm is much clearer in the case of guns than for voting--and I find it ludicrous to believe that voters without ID would be numerous (or organized) enough to create a Hitler. (Sidebar, the claim that Hitler took away guns is incorrect, he actually restored gun rights, except for Jews, after the WWII armistice agreements disarmed Germans.) I think it would make sense to require liability insurance for gun ownership, and I do not see that as unconstitutional ("well-regulated", what?). As for the "driving is a privilege" argument, it wasn't initially, and I expect licensing had a lot to do with creating revenue to build better roads. Plus, many interstate roads require one to be in a vehicle to access them. And the people who oppose voting rights claim, as part of their argument, that to function at all in society you have to have ID--and they pretty much assume that anyone without a driver's license or a social security card in their possession must be a parasite moocher--even while arguing that people have an alienable right to live off the healthcare grid.

Now, if the guy who tried to assassinate Andrew Jackson in 1835 had had a semi-automatic, he probably would have succeeded. (His gun jammed, twice, and of course he had to reload--most likely powder, wadding, and lead bullet, although I don't know the specifics there. BTW he was acquitted on grounds of insanity in a 5-minute jury session, although he spent the right of his life in institutions for mental diseases). I wonder how the country would have responded then regarding the right to bear arms and insanity.

@Marlar, seems odd, isn't it? All we saw were conservative gun lovers went into abortion clinic and shot the doctors and workers over there.

I think this whole hatred from liberals against conservatives is way out of control. I mean, for crying out loud, you accuse conservatives of hatred, and you liberals display pure venom hatred toward others solely due to their beliefs.

And 'liberals' are the ones with the nerve to cry 'hypocrite'?!?

War of ideology going on. Math is the tool, neuro psychology, teLIEvision, takewaynology... these are the tools. Hasn't the system gone too far? Read in between the lines and don't always believe what you read and decide who is feeding you the information. These are tense times we are living in and the government is robbing the people everyday.

Trayvon Martin case was in the media longer than the batman massacre. Maybe they decided to stop reporting since everyone was asking where is the video?

I think this whole hatred from liberals against conservatives is way out of control. I mean, for crying out loud, you accuse conservatives of hatred, and you liberals display pure venom hatred toward others solely due to their beliefs.

You are joking, right?

I don't see highly funded liberal groups dedicated to spreading lies and misinformation about Christians and trying to enact laws to ban Christians from marrying and to make it legal to discriminate against Christians... because that's what the FRC does to gays.

And if you want to see some serious hate, go on over to stormfront's website - come back and let me know if they are Obama supporters.... lol

@Shuklack

I don't see highly funded liberal groups dedicated to spreading lies and misinformation...

http://mediamatters.org/

one security guard, an adult male, was shot in the arm at about 10:40 a.m. ET inside the building and was conscious and breathing after the shooting.

Today could still be your lucky day, I think he's going to be okay

Too many guns. Too much power to the NRA. Too much Conceal and Carry! Too many assault weapons out there! Too much 2nd Amendment!

maybe it's the blonde hair-- confused. Linda? Why the Fox reference? What could Fox possibly have to do with this story??

*shakes head*

clwyd-2621393

Too many guns. Too much power to the NRA. Too much Conceal and Carry! Too many assault weapons out there! Too much 2nd Amendment!

How many legal gun owners shot at or killed noone today? Assault weapons are illegal already anyway. Besides, banning guns will turn out like banning marijuana. We all see how well that's working. The current restrictions are fine. We need to focus on the unstable idiots so full of hate that they would use them for illegal acts.

clwyd,

I'd urge you to look up how many CWP holders have committed violent or firearm related crimes nation wide over the last 5 years. It's not even a percentage point. Concealed Weapon Permit holders are some of the most responsible people in America. I'd also urge you to look up the number of crimes committed where "assault" weapons were used. Not even a percentage point there either. Tactical weapons are too expensive, large, and bulky for the average thug committing a 7-11 hold up. Small, cheap .38 Specials and 9 mm's are used and obtained by criminals in the bulk of those instances. The problem isn't too much Second Amendment, the problem is too much liberal ideology and too may people letting isolated incidents reported by the media shape their entire world outlook on everyone else in the nation who didn't commit a crime today.

Given how many people are killed by cars "for no good reason" every day, it seems like you'll be waiting awhile ... at lesat until cars are banned

The gun ban idea simply doesn't hold water, it's just the easy answer for those with no clue.

Linda,

You are trash. This is not the time or place.

Too many guns! Even a security guard with a legal gun can't protect himself!

@clwyd-2621393

Too many guns. Too much power to the NRA. Too much Conceal and Carry! Too many assault weapons out there! Too much 2nd Amendment!

Well the Second Amendment will never be repealed but fortunately for you there is another freedom you could use if these things really bother you so much. You have the freedom to pack your bags and move somewhere the laws more suit you. Or of course you could just stick to pointlessly bitching about things that you can't change. See, freedom really is a great thing!

For those that want to smear legitimate gun owners, it wasn't the NRA or their members giving untraceable semi-automatic weapons to the Mexican drug cartels. You'll have to ask Obama appointee, Eric Holder, that question.

@Another Deadbeat Texan

According to Backcountry....(and the GOP/Tea Trash, White Aryan, Anglo-Saxon ,Teuton Supremacist Party).

I'm not GOP. In fact I am 100% in favor of gays being able to marry (and not just some civil union BS either) and consider the opposition to such to be blatant discrimination.

So do you hate being wrong all the time or have you gotten used to it by now? I assume you're used to it since most of your posts have zero substance and are little more than borderline psychotic raving.

Backcountry,

Those are the same words that the Nazi's used in Germany to get rid of those who didn't agree with them in the 30's. Nice you used the comparison to show how Un-American you really are and how we may be headed in the same direction.

@clwyd-2621393

Those are the same words that the Nazi's used in Germany to get rid of those who didn't agree with them in the 30's.

Really? Telling people to move to another state with stricter laws was what the Nazis did?

Nice you used the comparison to show how Un-American you really are and how we may be headed in the same direction.

ROTFLMAO!!!! The only one using "un-American" comparisons is YOU my friend! Nazi's! LOL! Too funny!

My friend they told people to leave the country if they didn't agree with Hitler and the move to arm Germany in the 30's. That is the comparison my right wing nut !!!!!!!!!!! Lol! Here too! Of course, other countries have stricter laws compared to us. name one that doesn't. Castle Law, Conceal and Carry, Florida's law that if you feel threatened-shot to kill! 50,000 die a year and only 10% from robberies. Most now dying are from some nut, neighbor or family member. times ten years is 1/2 million times 20 is 1,000,000. Just so the NRA can have their toys. Now including AK-47's.

I'd rather stay and bitch. Also, work towards a change, but knowing there is too much money out there to expect much change. also, too many people who like to play with guns.

clwdy-2621393- Your very first comment that I read I thought it was very idiotic. And I competely disagreed with it. For one, everyone desrves the right to have a gun for self-protection and defense. For 2, if the security guard had been allowed to havea gun there is a huge possibilty this would have been a completely different story. And to a certain extent I do agree with back country. If you sincerely hate the fact that we have the second amendment then move to another country or find a state with very strict gun laws (and i doubt seriously you'll find one). You cant get mad at him for expressing his views and we cant get mad at you for expressing your views. Like one of the posters said, just like they can change or abolish the second amendent they can also change the first amendment. You dont want that and neither do we.

And for your other comments, I didn't like them either. Nobody has a problem with you disagreeing, just if you're going to disagree please do so with intelligence. Honestly how do we have too much second amendment? I mean really. And obviously you know how strict other countries are so you're going to stay here in the United States where your freedom is not limited. So since you have made that decision then enjoy it. Let us fully embrace the second amendment along with all of our other rights granted by the constitution. Thank you.

Sweetcancer,

How nice to have a voice of reason expressed here. I know I get carried away, but when you have a relative shoot his family of 4 and kill them all before taking his own life you question the words you said about everyoene having a right to own guns! I still don't! Guns are out of control in America. Oh, the gun was a semi automatic with a clip of 100 rounds. Not something you need to hunt or to protect!

Amazed at how strange the mind of liberals works. They seem to forget that the last three major shootings Gibbs, Colorado Theater, now this, are all done by liberal leaning crazies. They seem to think it's OK for them to resort to violence when they don't agree with others opinions, example-read some of the above posts. Where's the vaunted liberal tolerance????? Oh, I forget, it's only tolerance for their opinions not for other peoples.

As for gun control, it wouldn't stop criminals. Most crimes are proven to be committed with illegally obtained guns. Very simple - criminals don't care if it's the law not to have that gun. Duh.

Voter ID??? Why not??!! EVERYONE by the age of 18 has to have some form of ID. Simple fact. Even if you don't drive you have to obtain state provided ID. You have to have it to get your welfare, your cigarettes, alcohol, etc. And for all those idiots who think voter fraud only happens 10 times in the past 10 years, please. It was a proven fact that ACORN registered everything from dogs to dead people. That is not right and it was done to skew the vote in a certain parties favor. Of course liberals don't like the FACT that almost all voter fraud is committed by their party. Proven. What's so difficult about the concept that you must prove you have the right to vote. You already have the ID if you are a legal citizen.

Lastly, prayers going out to the guard shot at the FRC. And a thank you for his heroic actions that may have saved alot more lives. And for those of you scumbags that think he deserved it, remember, we have to tolerate your stupidity so you should have to respect differing opinions. But until libs develope some class and respect for others, the hate they spew is going to continue to further divide our nation. Sad

Too many guns. Too much power to the NRA. Too much Conceal and Carry! Too many assault weapons out there! Too much 2nd Amendment!

I am not a huge fan of guns, either, but I am a huge fan of our constitution. If you (or others) don't like the 2nd amendment, then get it changed. There is a process for doing that. Yes, it's hard (because the founders wanted it to be hard), but that is the PROPER way to eliminate guns if it is going to happen. Our constitution has been changed and amended, so it CAN be done. Now, however, our microwave society has no patience for things that are hard or take time, so we are constantly looking for ways to bypass the proper channels to try to make things happen..... So instead of letting the legislatures being allowed to make the laws, we have judges handing them down from the bench. We have a president who picks and chooses what laws of the legislature will be enforced. And we have executive orders steering our country left instead of forcing our politicians to get their acts together and do their jobs.....

I am afraid it's all crumbling before our eyes.... Sadly, this is exactly what hope and change was MEANT to look like.

No this is not Hope and Change it is a Congress that has done nothing for almost 4 years and had the worst production of legislation in our nations history. Toss the do nothings out!

@clwyd-2621393

My friend they told people to leave the country if they didn't agree with Hitler and the move to arm Germany in the 30's. That is the comparison my right wing nut !!!!!!!!!!!

I tell some they are free to move somewhere the laws are more in line with their beliefs, you use the most extreme and ridiculous analogy you could possibly come up with and you think I'M the nut? Now that's funny!

As I've always said, if you have to use gross exaggeration to make your point you obviously never had a valid point to begin with. Comparing what I said to the actions and motivations of friggin Nazi's is as gross of an exaggeration as you could possibly make and is a clear indication of exactly who the nut is.

And FYI, not everyone who disagrees with liberal nonsense and drivel is "right wing". In your haste to label me a a right wing Nazi you somehow failed to notice that in the post directly above I clearly indicated my support of gay marriage, hardly a "right-wing" stance.

clwdy-26221393-Ok. you do have a point on the semi-automatic weapons. I do agree with you on that. People should only be allowed to own handguns and hunting rifles. That much I do agree. Now on the Congress thing I disagree to a certain extent. I think the Bush administration was the worse legislation this country has ever seen. And thats exactly why we are in the state that we are in and it seems like they can't get anything accomplished fast enough. It really isn't this current administration's fault nor is it this current congress's fault. They are trying their best but it is not easy especially with the fact that they still have to clean up what Bush messed up for eight years. And you have republicans that want to run American the same way he ran it while he was in office. Which is right into the ground with absolutely no change but a recession.

No this is not Hope and Change it is a Congress that has done nothing for almost 4 years and had the worst production of legislation in our nations history. Toss the do nothings out!

Yes, and the Dems controlled that do-nothing Congress for 2 of the past 3 1/2 yrs and the do-nothing Senate for all of the last 4 yrs. What I find ironic is that during what the libs call the worse recession in over 75 yrs, Dems controlled both the Senate and the House! But, of course, they bear no responsibility whatsoever!

clwdy-26221393-Ok. you do have a point on the semi-automatic weapons. I do agree with you on that. People should only be allowed to own handguns and hunting rifles. That much I do agree. Now on the Congress thing I disagree to a certain extent. I think the Bush administration was the worse legislation this country has ever seen. And thats exactly why we are in the state that we are in and it seems like they can't get anything accomplished fast enough. It really isn't this current administration's fault nor is it this current congress's fault. They are trying their best but it is not easy especially with the fact that they still have to clean up what Bush messed up for eight years. And you have republicans that want to run American the same way he ran it while he was in office. Which is right into the ground with absolutely no change but a recession.

I am just completely bewildered by your assessment and really wonder if you are really believing the things you type.... Unless the president rules by executive order (as Obama does more and more), the president does NOT legislate. The president does NOT spend money. Congress is the body primarly responsible for the money we spend and the laws that are enacted. Bush had a split congress and was not able to pursue "anything he wanted". Are you aware that our Senate (led by Harry Reid) is REQUIRED BY LAW to submit a budget annually, but they have NOT submitted a budget for some TWELVE HUNDRED DAYS now?! The House continues to pass LOTS of legislation which they send to the Senate, but 99 percent of it is deemed "Dead on Arrival". The house sent a budget, but it didn't see the light of day. People LOVE to talk about republicans being the obstructionists, but if you look up "obstructionist" in the dictionary, it says, "See Harry Reid". If the democrats had taken heed after the 2010 election and put a new majority leader in charge of the senate, I have no doubt that congress would be working much better today than it is now. HE is the problem.

@sweetcancer2485

It really isn't this current administration's fault nor is it this current congress's fault. They are trying their best but it is not easy especially with the fact that they still have to clean up what Bush messed up for eight years. And you have republicans that want to run American the same way he ran it while he was in office. Which is right into the ground with absolutely no change but a recession.

Ummm, apparently you've somehow failed to notice but Barack Obama is George Bush on steroids. The republicans, while failing to acknowledge the fact that they started this ball rolling, seem to be the only ones willing to try to stop it. They'll make a half-assed attempt at best but it's slightly better than the alternative of doubling down on 4 years of epic failure.

Stupid comment...can't you erase it?

WomenOnGuard,

It is very telling that you think the FRC is a government organization. Has the far right been so fully co-opted by the religious organizations that it thinks they are synonymous with government?

ghult - All you morons calling FRC a "hate group" are delusional. Typical liberal view that anyone that disagrees with their moral views is either ahteful or a racist.

Colorado-Man - All you morons calling FRC a "hate group" are delusional.

The FRC lobbies to criminalize homosexuality, lobbies against the civil rights of gays, demonizes gays and spreads disinformation about them, supports the "Kill the Gays" bill in Uganda, and wants to restrict the 1st Amendment rights of Muslims and prevent any more mosques from being built in the US.

The Southern Poverty Law Center knows what it's talking about when it comes to hate groups, and the FRC is most definitely a hate group. They even share a mailing list with the KKK.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners

FRC has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center

Not surprising. The southern poverty law center should be called Southern Deviant Proponent Center.

This was a hate crime against Christians. It's time for Christians to rise up and decry it loud and clear.

Disagreeing with their lifestyle doesn't qualify them as a "hate group". Running in with a gun and shooting people does. Who's the hate group now?

Which "Government Officials" are you talking about? This was NOT a Government office!

the only hate group have members like skrekk ... the FRC is the farthest thing from a hate group .. just because Christians still believe in a real and living God doesn't make them people who hate .. skrekk and his ilk have been led astray and their delusion thinks they can kill God .. my faith in this God doesn't mean i hate it means i believe in his word and the ultimate end to all this ''' over the rantings of the immoral

Coolorado Man -

By definition, if you disagree with the liberal/progressive posters on this vine, you are a hateful racist. Might as well ge used to it.

We don't even know that this security guard was shot because of his job or affiliation with this group. It could've been personal, or random. (It didn't say so in the story I read - may have been updated since.)

Sorry winwin4all-If a gay is attacked, it's called a hate crime, even when the motive is not known. When a muslim is attacked, it's called a hate crime, even when the motive is not known. Therefore, ergo to wit, when a Christian organization is attacked, it is a hate crime.

Don't worry. When they kill all the idiots that are against any form of gun control, we will finally get what we need. For all the gun nuts, why when someone says gun control you automatically ascent to banning of guns. You do know the difference, don't you????

Supporting children be kidnapped from their families just because it is a same sex household is hate. Supporting Uganda's killing of gay people is hate. Generating propaganda that is false or misleading in order to suppress women and gay people's rights is hate.

They are a hate group, and horrible people. This does not mean they should be shot at, and the shooter should be tried to the full extent of the law.

"Running in with a gun and shooting people does. Who's the hate group now?"

As far as we know so far, it is a group of one.

" just because Christians still believe in a real and living God doesn't make them people who hate .."

If it stops there, no. But then there would be no need for the FRC. You don't need an organization and lobbyists to "just believe in God," You need them to change the behavior of others. Whether the latter becomes hateful depends on motive and methods.

Steve West-1303645 ... the FRC is the farthest thing from a hate group

Right......they're not a hate group, they just think gays and Muslims should be 2nd-class citizens.......just like the Council of Conservative Citizens thought blacks should be 2nd-class citizens.

They're not a hate group, they just think Muslims have no 1st Amendment rights and shouldn't be allowed to build mosques in the US.

They're not a hate group, they just think homosexuality should be a criminal offense.

They're not a hate group, they just think gays in Uganda should be killed.

They're not a hate group, it's just a coincidence that the FRC shares a mailing list with a KKK grand wizard.

They're not a hate group, Tony Perkins simply didn't realize that he was giving speeches to white supremacists at the Council of Conservative Citizens.

Sounds like rather typical "Christian values", not hate at all. Not one bit.

Tell me more about how stupid criminals follow the lAW!!! You are SOOO smart!! NOT!!!!

Charles

Here is a list of BANNED Handguns in Ca. Notice that these ARE NOT Saturday Night Specials or Assualt Weapons. Why are they banned? Well Ca. has a Gun Safety thing. ALL handguns MUST pass a State Safety Test EACH YEAR. Now The Manufactures must submit a sample EACH YEAR. If the Handgun is no longer made it is not sent in for the Safety Test. THUS IT IS BANNED!! So why would a gun be legal one day and Illegal the next?? ONLY REASON IS TO BAN THE HANDGUN!!!

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/files/pdfs/firearms/removed.pdf

Lou7777777

Sorry winwin4all-If a gay is attacked, it's called a hate crime, even when the motive is not known. When a muslim is attacked, it's called a hate crime, even when the motive is not known. Therefore, ergo to wit, when a Christian organization is attacked, it is a hate crime.

Let's be clear the FRC is not a church, it is a political action group. As such is doesn't fall under any current hate crimes legislation. It hasn't been revealed what the shooters plans or motives were but it is unlikely he was motivated by the religion of anyone inside, if anything it might have been political. More likely than not he was just plain crazy.

SPLC has interesting stuff on the history of Tony Perkins--lost his law enforcement job after failing to inform superiors of anti-abortion conspiracy to break the law when he was involved with anti-abortion movement.

I also like how Tony Perkins paid $82,500 for a KKK mailing list from David Duke, a KKK grand wizard. Apparently the FRC and KKK share the same demographic.....really white Southern Baptists.

Skrekk- You have some very valid points and you have definitely educated me and I sincerely appreciate that. I honestly had no clue that they did all of that and that they were hooked up with the KKK. Since that is the case and like the other poster said they are not a church they are a political action group that wants to change the behaviors of others, then this is not a hate crime at all. And I also kinda of agree with the other person that said they got what they deserve. If they are guilty of the heinous crimes that you say there guilty of then yes they do deserve to get a taste of their own medicne. But the security guard did not deserve to be injured at all.

And at the same time just because we all disagree politically and religiously this should never be a reason for violence. However the president of the FRC needs to be taught a lesson the exact same way he teaches other people lessons. Because what they practice and what they teach isn't right either. They are not Jesus and therefore they do not have the right to condemn anybody to hell. And futhermore Jesus said; "The same condemnation you pass on your fellow man will be passed on to you." So Tony Perkins needs to read the whole entire bible instead of just reading what he desires just to throw the book at other people that are commiting sins he don't agree with. The Lord never condones operating out of hate and He never operates out of hate. And this is what gets me about conservatives. They act like they dont sin and do evil when over half of them are commiting adultery-which is an abomination and was punishable by death for the man and the woman in the old testament. So they honestly have no room to talk about homosexuals nor women who have abortions, which is none of their business anyway. And he probably is commiting adultery too right along with the rest of them.

But anyways, Skrekk, thanks for your posts. The middle of my message was not aimed at you in anyway. It was intended for all these extreme right wing conservatives who are nuts. I wanted to take time out and remind them of their sins and imperfections since they just love to throw the Book at homosexuals and women who have abortions. Because they get on my last damn nerve with that bullcrap. I cannot stand religious ass people who do their best to make others feel lower then human just to put on a show so everyone can think they are holy and righetous. Like Jesus said about the pharaseeds and the saduceeds, "You are a stinch in my Father's nostrils." You worhsip me with your lips but your hearts are far from me." You are nothing but a brood of vipers". Thats how i feel about right wing conservatives called republicans. Thats exactly what they are.

Being responsible citizens and not running around shooting at people who disagree with them politically.

The shooting was in Washington D.C. where normal peasants like all of us are not allowed to be armed for our own protection, but the bureaucrats have armed bodyguards.

Exactly LSCWquilter,

You proved my point. Those folks you described are few and far between and only exist in large numbers in the average liberals mind. The rest of us Conservatives, (or "Normal folks" as I like to call us), were at work minding our own business for the sake of our families, getting along with our gay co-workers just fine (I recently hired a gay landscaper by the way because I judged him by the integrity of his work and not by his sexual preferences which have no bearing on my yard), and our firearms and ammunition were locked up safely and securely in our gun safes or our cars as required by State Laws and/or the policy of the company that we work for. Sorry for being such an extreme right winger.

Well quilter, you idiot, they were in Washington DC, where the extreme left of the Democrat party holds sway on the city council and in the mayor's office and does everything it can to keep firearms out of the hands of honest citizens. So they were not armed, because DC law says that they cannot be armed. You're a complete f*cking dumb@ss. Typical left/liberal response: when someone gets shot, make a fallacious argument against concealed carry by saying it never helps people defend their lives, not taking into account that local law makes CCW illegal.

CNORTON.......great post, couldn't have said it better.

LSC,

This is a blue district....not their problem. All those people are at work paying taxes to support your inappropriate back side.

The gunman who opened fire and shot a security guard at the Family Research Council’s Washington, D.C. office has now been identified as Floyd Corkins, a volunteer for the last six months at The DC Center for the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender) Community.

Corkins allegedly made negative comments about the FRC before shooting the guard and could have intended to shoot FRC employees had the security guard not heroically intervened.

The FRC is a pro-life and pro-traditional marriage organization. For holding these beliefs, the left-wing Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) labelled the Family Research Center as a hate group.

This label is not without consequences. For instance, on Tuesday, the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights organization, ran a story on a blog about Paul Ryan’s appearance next month at the Values Voters summit, which is sponsored by the FRC, titled, “Paul Ryan Speaking at Hate Group’s Annual Conference.”

And yet, the SPLC released a rather tepid statement in which there was no expression of concern whatsoever about the well-being of the security guard who is allegedly in stable condition after being shot.

The SPLC’s statement is below:

We’ve seen news of the shooting of a security guard today at the Family Research Council office in Washington, D.C., and are getting media inquiries about it. There are unconfirmed reports that the shooting was ideologically motivated. We condemn all acts of violence and are following the story closely.

People who hate conservative groups fire-bomb abortion clinics?

Besides, if guns were banned, wouldn't pipe bombs or fire bombs be the next choice for the insane people?

Yeah, the pro abortionist way is better.....just kill them before they can fight back.

Why, they was all out at the shootin' range, expressin' their manlyhood!

We heard you the first time you posted this same exact mindless comment. Saying it twice doesn't make it more witty. Just twice as stupid.

Did you bother to read the story, or even the headline? This happened in DC, which has some of the most stringent gun control laws in the nation. And whether you lefties like to admit it or not, most Conservatives obey the laws, even stupid ones.

Posting it twice doesn't make you any smarter.

L@SCWquilter

Where were all the family-lovin', gay-hatin', flag-wavin', gun-totin' conservatives armed for their own self-defense?

In your imagination obviously.

*crickets chirp*

Hmmmm.. guess no one thought that was funny but you. Laugh louder at your own comment and it might seem like more than one person liked your post.

@cnorton

Personally I don't give a rats furry a$$ if anyone thinks it's funny. I read these threads every day and every day there's a new presidential conspiracy theory.

There is always someone who says it's Obama's fault.

Don't tread on me!...............Now THAT'S funny............

Wanna hear something even funnier.... let's hear you try to give me a quick, basic history of the Gadsden Flag without leaving this page or looking it up.

Severed Head in a Jar

Personally I don't give a rats furry a$$ if anyone thinks it's funny. I read these threads every day and every day there's a new presidential conspiracy theory.

Yeah, you've got that right... he's a tax cheat, he wants to end Medicare, he wants to destroy the middle class, he hates women, he wants his own planet, he's only for the 1%... oops, he's not president yet, is he?

hey you are aware he wa referring to Presidnet Obama not Mitt Romny.

oops, he's not president yet, is he?

sweetcancer2485

hey you are aware he wa referring to Presidnet Obama not Mitt Romny.

Hmmm, do you need another clue? I can see the wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead.

first of all you are one to talk did you catch on to what he was saying. And second of all my mind works very well. And third, yes I got it, but by then it was too late. And did you ever catch on to what he was saying since youre trying to be smart?! Do you need another clue?! you probaly do since the comment you posted first was the stupid one.

They can ask, but that doesn't mean the suspect has to answer. It's the first line of the Miranda warning: "You have the right to remain silent."

And I'm sure when you were a child you were about 10x as likely to tell the truth as someone who is arrested! And, your mom didn't give you the right to remain silent! Besides, if a suspect tells their motive, they've pretty much confessed that they did it. Thus, no known motive as of yet.

Well I guess you have a point there you two. Wishful thinking I guess. And I do remember hearing those words of my mom saying "Don't you tell a story, if you do things will be worst for you" But now that I'm grown, I see everyone else telling stories and it looks profitable.

"Our side?"

I think that's more the problem than anything else.

No Stacey, the problem is exactly what Wilkerson indicated (in part). We can disagree, but this crap has to stop when someone gets shot. People need to start behaving with some integrity again. Also, the shooter is accountable, not 50% of the nation with a different perspective. Put his butt in jail and move on so those of us who are not nuts can continue exploring our differences.

Exactly. This is America. We're encouraged to speak our minds, have our opinions, take a stand, have opposing views. That should never escalate to violence.

I know "our side" can sound devisive but keeping it real --there does seem to be sides for everything. Stacey do you really think that Wilkerson is the problem for talking about the reality of sides? I think the shooter is the problem.

I am opposed to the KKK and would never consider myself on their "side" unless it is to protect their rights under the constitution. When they marched in our town a few years back it supported their right to publically make asses of themselves while attending a counter hate picnic. It came off on the news as a few KKK members marched but thousands attended a peacefull counter hate picnic.

I cant stand Fred Phelps (the GOD HATES FAGS idiot) but i support his right to demonstrate -- as a matter of fact he has done more for "our side" than his.

Opening fire on people is wrong! even if it is someone like Fred Phelps

Forest for trees Stacey....

Good point, Scott! And I will add that for our country to be a free, civilized country, we need to be able to disagree without violence. Quite candidly, I see people 'stuck on stupid' on both sides of many different issues, both on the web, and in my community. It's refreshing to see people talk intelligently!

Wilkerson, I agree with what you said: "no one should wish someone getting hurt physically. That is just plain wrong." Well said!

@ James,

and yet it was Republicans that advocated using their "2nd Amendment remedies" against the Democrats if they didn't get their way...

too bad you don't disavow the hatred spewed from the Right...

I can't believe, YOU BELIEVE what you just wrote.

Who is spewing hate, James Kirk? Re-read your post. LOL. If you weren't so divisive and semi-stupid, you would be funny!

James Kirk is 100% correct.

The left is only about hate. They add nothing to our lives, but take and take and take. They murder babies and laugh when people they don't know get shot. Thats who Obama is himself.

James,

That's all they know. They are intellectually inferior, and can't see past their own nose.

James, your paranoid fantasies are just that. Nobody thinks this is a good thing, except maye for a few psychopaths.

Hmmm, supposed to be funny? Try again.

That's funny, BobbyG, because I'm pretty sure the lefties spend countless hours claiming that there are no black Republicans.

The second amendment gives the citizens the right to bear arms, it doesn't give the the right to use arms in an illegal manner....in case you don't know...armed assault is illegal...

@ pulsar,

Tell that the Sharon Angle...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/16/sharron-angle-floated-2nd_n_614003.html

And here is a another one. LOL you guys kill me...oophs did I say that.

Maybe you should pray harder and whine less...or just go back to Mexico.

Proud_Hispanic- EXACTLY. I notice there is no mention of the FBI investigating this as the hate crime it is!

gayatheistmarine-shut your mouth. I thought you gays were so TOLERANT.

And also remember how quickly they incorrectly involved the Tea Party in the Colorado shooting?

Gay Atheist, you add nothing and noone cares what you say, or about you at all.

It's not my fault you're so ignorant you can't tell the difference in reporting or how scewed it is. I'm not whining, just stating what was missing in this reporting. Also, not that it matters, but my heritage is Hispanic, I am US born and raised. Maybe Gay and herewego should get a brain.

Do you have papers to prove it, or are you going to pull a Mitt Romney?

Gayatheistmarine. 80% of my neighbors are Hispanic but Mexicans are the people from the country across the river and there are at any one time 30plus hispanics from my parish serving in the Armed Forces of the US including people like the young marine we buried last week.

Get a brain? You mean you don't have one? Don't be hard on yourself.

Nope, not heading backwards for ya. Sorry...go forward or just stay at home. smdh

Hey, you really should write a comedy/fiction book.

Ihatelliberals-Too true, unfortunately.

That's right, loo - most simple minded folks hate liberals because they are too true for them to handle. They prefer to be lied to, so they listen to fake news, rush, etc.

Mike X-you can't even spell my name right!! So don't call anyone else "simple minded". LOL LOL LOL.

@ihateliberals-3787409, I am so scared. What will save us now? Oh I know, backward extreme conservative ideology:)

You are too extreme in your view of Conservatives. It is almost like believing, everything is black and white. Just like the bias media. Many people like me believe that gay people deserves not to be bully and respected just like anyone else. However, no one should undermine the nature of marriage. We left gays to marriage why not two man and a woman or two transsexuals or polygamist, etc. Then people like Obama will bash us publicly saying we can't choose the moral leaders for our children.

I think your insulting post should be collapsed.

Another Deadbeat Texan

vote to get inside every woman's vagina in America

Are we going to start with the A's in the phone book?

Vote to get into Aairana Aardvarks vagina: YES__— NO___

Another Deadbeat Texan- Right on the money.

Lucytruth- The truth hurts. But if you educate yourself, you will realize that that is, unfortunately, exactly what your party is doing, and if the only reason you'd call yourself a conservative is because you somehow believe the government should dictate whether or not two consenting adult human beings should be allowed to marry, then you have a warped view of personal freedoms. "

And personal freedoms are, essentially, what liberals believe the government should stay out of. Whereas conservatives believe in commercial/economic freedom, but imposing on an individual's right to go about their daily life the way they see fit. Whether you want to believe it or not, that's pretty much the bottom line.

Somehow shooting a security guard just doesn't seem to rank uo there with flying airplanes into buildings.

I think the police need to stop beating the "domestic terrorist" drum when crackpots go off the deep end.

Next thing you know they will be calling a parking ticket "domestic terrorism" so they can get more funding.

cpo sharkey-Of course you want this downplayed, now that we have an obvious hate crime against Christians.

Lou, I don't give a crap whether the target was Christian, Muslim, or worships the ancient Greek pantheon.

The fact of the matter is that shooting a security guard in a building is NOT an "act of domestic terrorism", that's like calling a hand grenade a nuclear weapon.

And what the heck is this "hate crime" BS? Assault is assault is assault. Murder is murder is murder.

McVie was not a "domestic terrorist", he was a murderer. The "Unibomber" was not a "domestic terrorist", he was a murderer. And the anthrax mailer was not a domestic terrorist, he was a murderer.

Instead of falling into the trap of using politically correct terms to label things, try calling it the way it is.

And no, I am not your mama, and I am not at all sorry if I shattered your tender sensitivities.

How about had the Security Guard not have disarmed the nut and he unloaded the entire gun into workers....would that have been domestic terrorism? I thought so.

So the fact that it was thwarted prior to this liberal lunatic carrying out his intent, negates the actions? More moronic thinking from the left. Yeah, and Ft. Hood wasn't an act of domestic terrorism either....so says the President and NO ELSE!!!!

The label of domestic terrorism is usually just a flag to get the case assigned to the agency they think is best able to pursue it, generally the domestic terrorism unit of the FBI.

No George, it would not have been "domestic terrorism".

"Domestic Terrorism" is when a terrorist organization decides to load anthrax into the tanks of a crop duster and spray New York City.

"Domestic Terrorism" is when a suicide bomber detonates a tactical nuke in the Capitol Rotunda.

"Domestic Terrorism" is when a biological warfare weapon is unleashed in a subway.

"Domestic Terrorism" is not some lone kook going off and killing people because he has a mental problem.

Had you ever served in Iraq or Afghanistan you would know the difference between a suicide vest and a lone gunman.

If you can't see that a lone guy walking into a movie theatre, a Sikh temple, or a building, with a weapon is not an act of domestic terrorism, as opposed to an act of a mentally unbalanced mind, there is no hope for you to ever understanding the difference. All that definition does is give the FBI credit for resolving a "terrorist act", and getting more funding for their "War on Terror". It justifies increased domestic wiretaps, warrantless searches, and survellience NOT aimed at any terrorist group. It justifies big government monitoring the activities of the citizens to identify the potential "terrorist".

You probably believe that John Wilkes Booth was a "domestic terrorist".

Yes, Jock. And once the FBI can use it as an example of "domestic terrorism" they can increase their incident count, obtain more funding to fight the threat, and obtain more authority to stop these kinds of attacks.

....If only the FBI could have had this guy under survellience, tapped his phone, warrantless search of his residence when he wasn't home, etc, they could have identified him and arrested him BEFORE he committed his "terrorist" act. Just give them the authority to do that to him, and 300 million people just like him. Big Brother is watching you, and looking out for your safety.

It's called pre-emptive law enforcement. Scare people into giving up their civil rights by providing statistics of the increase in "domestic terrorism".

Call random attacks by the mentally disturbed "assault" and "murder", and people look to local police presence on the streets. Call it "domestic terrorism" and scare the crap out of them so that Federal law enforcement can "protect" them.

It's all in how it's spun for the media......

@CPO Sharkey, John Wilkes Booth was a domestic terrorist. The plan was to kill the vice president and sec. of state all in the same day. The others backed out but 11 people were convicted in the plot and 6 were hung including a woman. Booth was a failed terrorist but still one just the same.

What ignorance do you speak of, and exactly where is this ignorance documented?

Cassandra-854239

When security guards are shot, it is usually because the shooter is trying to get past them in order to shoot someone else. So let's all wait and see. I must say, though, if this is a liberal hate crime against a conservative leader, it would be a first...perhaps because liberals tend to be more articulate and educated, so they are better at expressing their feelings in words.

#23 - Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:15 PM EDT

It was a liberal hate crime. The fact that you think that this a first is hilarious (not to mention the reasons you cited for that--those were even more hilarious!). You might want to go to some places OTHER than MS"DNC" for your news feeds and get some facts if you think this was the first hate crime perpetrated by a liberal.

Cassandra-854239:

"...perhaps because liberals tend to be more articulate and educated, so they are better at expressing their feelings in words."

Tell that to Bill Ayers.

Camo, I said they TEND to be. Of course there are uneduated liberals and sophisticated conservatives...I was talking about a central tendency, which is all we have to go on now. Anyway, I believe that Ayers was a radical, not a liberal....they really are two different things.

Almost a good point, HNL. Except that you're completely misinformed.

1. Swiss citizens are required to complete military training and weapons training. The Swiss do not have a standing army. Instead, from the ages of I believe 20 to 30, you are part of the militia.
We don't do that in the US, do we?

2. At the end of their militia service, they can keep their weapon on one condition: They bring in their weapon to have it modified so that it is no longer an automatic weapon but a semi-automatic.
We don't do that in the US, do we?

3. They are not issued any ammunition. A convenient fact to leave out. Even back when they *were* issued 50 rounds, it was in a sealed box inspected periodically by the government.

4. The only place I know of where you can buy ammunition for a your modified semi-automatic weapon, is at a gun range where you are required to use any ammunition you buy on site.
We don't do that in the US, do we?

5. To carry a weapon in public, you must have a permit.
We don't do that in the US, do we?

6. To buy a weapon from a commercial gun shop, you need a permit. There are some exceptions, but they are irrelevant to your argument here.
We don't do that in the US, do we?

7. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a crime. Walking down the street with a weapon, without a permit, is a crime.

So it would seem that Switzerland is indeed a very good example.... For sensible gun control laws.

You do have to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon in the US. In every state, except the President's home state you can be issued a permit to carry a firearm concealed on your person, and we all see how well that denial of Second Amendment rights is working for Chicago. People in the US are allowed to have automatic weapons, but they are subject to having their homes searched by ATF agents at any time of the day or night. Legally obtained full autos are NEVER used in crimes. You can bet if they were the liberal media gun control vultures would be screaming it from the rooftops once they removed Obama's dick from the back of their throat. Also, you can't have an automatic weapon manufactured after 1986. The firearms you people are always talking about banning are the EXACT type of firearms Swiss citizens are allowed to have. You are the one who is misinformed, either that or you are just flat-out lying to bolster your specious argument for gun control.

Waiting for the Prez to come on TV and announce "If I had a son, I would like him to be like the shooter this morning".

25sed, you realize that doesn't make any sense, right?

Not at all. Before Obama had any facts, he announced if he had a son, he wished he looked like Trayvon Martin. The Prez would likely be pleased that this young black man had attacked a conservative organization

Of course it does jock, when you haven't any sense to begin with, ANYTHING makes sense.

Actually - has anyone considered the fact that gun laws only restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens. In fact - there was a furor when Dan Rather stated the England had a crime problem worse than the US. Unfortunately, through all the angst, they couldn't explain the fact that Rather was correct in his assertion. England, btw, at that time had very strict gun control legislation. (It was considered a gold standard in gun control.). Now, if I was a criminal, and I would love strict gun control. Here's why...I am a criminal so I don't obey the laws, I have a gun. Now, I don't fear my targets (victims) because I know that most likely, all I will be subjected to is harsh language. I have the power and the cops will come by when I'm long gone.

I think semi-automatic/automatic weapons should be banned. I don't see why an ordinary citizen needs military grade weaponry. But the right to own a handgun or rifle is not one that should be denied. Let's ban other things, like men - because men tend to commit more violent crimes than women, regulate the white birth rate because most serial killers and mass murderers tend to be white. Do you see how absurd this is? That's what I think whenever I hear gun-ban proponents. We need to ensure that people learn to control their own violent impulses. We need to identify people who may have psychological issues and be more pro-active when we come across people who say they want to kill people. We need to identify and provide strong behavioral therapy to children who are identified as potentially psychopathic. Guns are just an easy thing to blame. After all - if we blamed the real culprit, ordinary people like you or I, it would be really hard to look in the mirror.

Unfortunately it's law abiding citizens who are going over the edge and shooting people. Holmes never broke a law before he went bonkers. Even that racist Page guy never commited a serious crime until he went totally bonkers. This guy probably never committed any crimes until he went looney. Would someone tell me what we're going to do about the law abiding folks who go bonkers? Because that's what we have going on here.

Angela and JH2944- I so agree with you. You all are so right. I dont get how stricter gun control laws accompanied with criminal and psychological tests is going to solve this issue. Because up until they commited these crimes, they all were normal law abiding citizens who could pass all of these kinds of tests. So like we all have been saying- There is no need for stricter gun laws nor the need these kind of tests, we just need to enforce the laws that are already on hand. And let every citizen retain their right to bear arms.

Assault weapons are illegal. And you do have to have permits and licenses to own and carry firearms. This last statement is for the idot that posted them idiotic questions and comments about the United States. What country have you been living in? What state? Because every state I know require you to have a license and a permit. Background checks are performed as they are required by federal law, so your argument was very idiotic and not valid. Just like the poster under you replied.

Cassandra-854239

Camo, I said they TEND to be. Of course there are uneduated liberals and sophisticated conservatives...I was talking about a central tendency, which is all we have to go on now. Anyway, I believe that Ayers was a radical, not a liberal....they really are two different things.

#24.2 - Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:46 PM EDT

LMAO! He's an unrepentant domestic terrorist and radical leftist LIBERAL! You are correct that "radical" and "liberal" are not synonyms, but you aren't washing your hands of him that easily. Sorry.

Maybe it was a crossover repub/tea partier. Ya think.

Brian Ross is working on it.

It'll happen. Either them or Ted Nuggent.

I vote for the draft dodger Ted Nugent.

The Tea Party gets blamed for every incident like this. This guy must have drank lemon zinger and had his tin hat on. Now they will call him a liberal conservative with progressive conservative leanings or a nut.

This IS a hate crime, Holder will not charge the bigoted /Hater !!

Obama==chicago MOBpolitics==divide the people, twist a crises to your agenda, lie, lie, LIE!!!