The problem is little boys thinking they;re real men being allowed into the military and further being allowed to play the same shallow minded juvenile games they played in highschool.

In our town, we have a significant problem with soldiers coming back into civilian life, screwing up and then blaming civilians having too many rights. Most of them are bigots and racists, not to mention a few child molesters all claiming PTSD whenever they get arrested (including for raping children). One even thinks he's a hero who deserves to put a man with 4 kids out of work, when the only kids he has are the ones he makes with welfare mothers.

In our town, we have a significant problem with soldiers coming back into civilian life, screwing up and then blaming civilians having too many rights.

Can you give me the name of the town please? I'd like to google it and find out about these cases myself. Thanks in advance.

What do people honestly expect? Just because someone puts on a uniform means nothing. Idiots are idiots no matter what they are wearing.

its a real let down to guys like me to know the military justice system is run by a bunch of thugs and gangsters disguised in camo.....let me tell u my father was in the army..in vietnam....he served with the 101st airborne division .....he was one of the best ....period........he would be disgusted to hear about this

Our schools teach survival of the fittest as the mechanism that guarantees and promotes an upward evolution of the species.

Now we are showing an inability to live with the practical outgrowth of the proposition.

Make up your minds.

What schools are those? Or is this some sort of sideways remark regarding evolution? You are misguided, and heartless.

You asked for it now you have it, every time a gay or incompetent commits suicide in the military because they cant handle it a @!$%# load of other personnel will be condemned for his actions, isn't this a beautiful situation. and they said (by presidential order) there would be no problems, maybe the thing to do is ban the straight people from the military, or go back to the old ways before don't ask don't tell just don't bother. there have been nothing but problems. just saying from observations.

V-1797921, who should be discharged? His commanding officers, his platoon, or the ones who gave him a pass for joining? He should not have been there in the first place. He, like many others are given a pass because we, as a Military force cannot train how it needs to be trained without being questioned. There is no word that cannot be spoken without thinking about PC.

As far as I know, there was not anything done to this young man that would have pushed him to suicide. If you cannot handle getting your ass kicked to get in shape then you should not be there.

This was not bullying, rather conditioning a young man of what he needs to do.

lovetherain said:

As far as I know, there was not anything done to this young man that would have pushed him to suicide. If you cannot handle getting your ass kicked to get in shape then you should not be there.

This was not bullying, rather conditioning a young man of what he needs to do.

According to several previous articles on this matter,there are documented reports of incidents that would generally be considered' over the line'.

In one instance, Pvt Chen left the water pump running after a shower. In punishment, he was dragged out of bed in the middle of the night by six officers, from a specialist to this staff sergeant to a lieutenant, and beaten into unconsciousness, and found the next morning still unconscious, half-naked, bruised, cut up and bleeding.

It does not take six superior officers to discipline one private for dereliction of duty. Proper punishment for such an infraction should have been PT, extra chores, curtailment of privileges. Not a concussion. If you consider a concussion to be 'conditioning' then you need to rethink your definitions.

Added to which, not only was this staff sergeant complicit in the assault, he also lied about it when asked. And that wasn't all; being drunk is a vcrime under the UCMJ, dereliction of duty is a crime under the UCMJ, lying when you're asked if you knew about it is a crime under the UCMJ. You did read these paragraphs from the article:

The third soldier to be court-martialed in hazing related to the Oct. 3 suicide of Army Pvt. Danny Chen in Afghanistan was found guilty of dereliction of duty Friday after pleading guilty to wrongfully possessing and consuming alcohol in violation of a general order.

The charges relate to Dugas’ failure to prevent subordinates from mistreating Chen, 19, and engaging in abusive behavior, as well as a false statement Dugas made to investigators claiming he hadn’t been informed of Chen’s mistreatment.

DBuck:

You asked for it now you have it, every time a gay or incompetent commits suicide in the military because they cant handle it a @!$%# load of other personnel will be condemned for his actions, isn't this a beautiful situation.

This isn't about gays or straights. Please do some research into the actual facts of the case before making suppositions. If you read the article, the Staff Sergeant pled guilty to dereliction of duty, possession/consumption of alcohol, and lying to CID investigators when they asked him if he knew about the incidents of assault that ultimately caused Chen's death. All of which are punishable offenses under the UCMJ.

Amanda, why are you spreading LIES? There is NO testimony out there that says he was pulled from his bed by 6 soldiers. NONE!!! Even the court testimony does not support that........

The COURT testimony states as follows:

It was discovered that the water heater was broken by accident. Someone noticed water leaking towards the Radio tent.......which BTW would have been devastating had anything happened to that equipment since it was their ONLY communication to the guys outside the wire and to the nearest FOB. Pvt. Chen was the last to use the shower..........INSTEAD of telling somebody, he went to his chu and went to bed. Sgt. Holcomb went to his bed, which was on the top bunk. He woke him up and told Chen to come with him to show him what was going on.......Chen REFUSED....TWICE. That is when Sgt. Holcomb grabbed Chen by the arm and pulled him out of the bed......it was then that Chen hit the floor resulting in the scratches............I am not going to comment on the right or wrong just GIVE YOU THE FACTS!!!

IF any of you followed the trials, like I have......you will see the play on words being used by the press......at NO TIME has there been any testimony that the smokings were DAILY..........Cause they were not happening daily. There is a very simple explaination as to why Sgt Dugas was NOT there, HE WAS ON PATROL EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!!

And Amanda........I know the majority of the soldiers that were THERE! Chen had LOTS OF FRIENDS! So PLEASE quit spreading LIES!!!!!!

BlueStarMom said:

Amanda, why are you spreading LIES? There is NO testimony out there that says he was pulled from his bed by 6 soldiers.

As I said at the beginning of my post:

According to several previous articles on this matter,there are documented reports of incidents that would generally be considered' over the line'.

I'm going on what has been reported in the media, and in various articles. Can't get the links to stick, but:

Military officials had also informed Chen's parents that he had been beaten for failing to turn off the hot water at his base prior to his death.--Global Post, Dec 21, 2011

But the official also revealed, the Chens said, that Danny Chen had been subjected to physical abuse and ethnic slurs by superiors, who one night dragged him out of bed and across the floor when he failed to turn off a water heater after showering.
Fairbanks Daily News Oct 30, 2011

Two soldiers and a chaplain came to the Chens' apartment on Oct. 3 to tell them that their son had died but not how. Three days later, they got a call from Army investigators informing them that their son had been subject to some abuse for not having turned off the hot water heater in the shower. They eventually were told that two instances of abuse were when he was dragged out of his bed and made to crawl on the ground while rocks were thrown at his back, and he was forced to do chin-ups while holding liquid in his mouth that he was not allowed to swallow or spit out.--MSNBC, Jan 2012

Now it is entirely possible that the news media has been completely wrong, and that Army officials were lying when they told Danny Chen's parents about the incident, so as I wasn't there, I didn't refer to anything as 'the truth'--I specified this was from other articles.

That is when Sgt. Holcomb grabbed Chen by the arm and pulled him out of the bed......it was then that Chen hit the floor resulting in the scratches............I am not going to comment on the right or wrong just GIVE YOU THE FACTS!!!

I specified that what I posted was from other articles I'd read, which apparently aren't true as you speak of the court testimony in terms that indicate you have been present at all the courts-martial and have personally heard and seen all the evidence presented. Please inform NBC News, then, that the following, pulled from a July 30 article, is untrue as apparently there was no testimony that says the following:

According to testimony, Holcomb also caused injuries to Danny Chen's back by dragging him across gravel after the lower-ranked soldier left a water pump on in a shower at the remote combat outpost where Chen began his first deployment in August 2011.

You are absolutely correct when you state that the witness testimony is NOT being portrayed as what is actually being said in court. Even the quotes of the witnesses testifying are not exactly what was said.

Bluestarmom said;

You are absolutely correct when you state that the witness testimony is NOT being portrayed as what is actually being said in court. Even the quotes of the witnesses testifying are not exactly what was said.

Then please inform NBCnews that you were there at the court martial and can tell them what was actually said. As the rest of us were not there we have only news reports of what military officials told Chen's parents; I'm sure we'd all like to know that the military lied to Chen's parents.

Traitors are ALWAYS worst then our enemies. But your low IQ won't let you comprehend that.

DallasGuy - You obviously have not been following this story; either that or you are a moron. Chen was singled out for the treatment he got because of repeated problems with his performance as a soldier. He repeatedly fell asleep while on guard duty, showed up for duty late, and showed up for duty without having all his required gear. You talk about watching each others back, this guy was falling asleep when it was is turn to be on guard protecting his fellow soldiers!!! It is a miracle that Chen did not get anyone killed through his gross dereliction of duty. The abusive treatment he was subjected to, while crossing the line in some cases, was intended to try and get him into shape as a soldier. The unit he was in was already short handed and this incompetent excuse for a soldier was making matters even worse for the rest of his unit. The people responsible for Chen's suicide, besides Chen himself who obviously had problems, are the idiots that passed this poor excuse for a soldier along through basic training and determined that he was fit to be deployed to a combat zone. The fact that no one throughout his training recognized that Chen was not fit for service either physically or psychologically shows a complete breakdown in the training program. Chen should have been weeded out of the military long before he arrived at a forward combat outpost and began endangering every other member of his unit with his inability to do even the most basic of duties - staying awake while on guard duty.

And that makes the equivalent of a Code Red ok.......you are the moron....I suppose you served and were a top of the line soldier. What happened to that young man should have had NOTHING to do with his job performance as a soldier......they could have pcs'ed him to another unit.....or given him a general discharge but to violate the UCMJ for kicks is more dishonerable than anything that young man could have done, You want to tell me you would honestly follow that SSgt into battle when he could not even keep his wits about him to do his job......let me tell you something I did serve during VietNam and I would have never followed that moron anywhere.

Do you mean that the whole platoon was the problem? tlang in Viet Nam if you fell asleep on guard duty it would have been the last thing you ever did, and no one would have said a thing. some people do value their lives. unfortunately Danny was lacking in that respect. No one is to blame for suicide except the fool that commits it. Danny could have asked for a transfer, but he probably knew his problem would have followed him, and he was not strong enough to hang on till he was discharged, the fact is he did not have what it takes to survive...... that's no reason to go F'n up every one Else's lives. when someone commits suicide the story ends right there.

Tlang- who said anything about code red? Mr. Chen should have never been in war. With multiple infractions, which by the way should have been enough to get him reassigned or discharged, his superiors had ever right to shape him up.

If you want to blame someone....take a look at how we train our military forces these days. They cannot take a crap without being told the smell, look, color, and response, without offending someone.

@lovetherain........he WAS being transferred out because of his lack of training. The platoon leaders said from the beginning he was not fit for that particular COP. Command LEFT him there because of the extreme manpower shortage. Although that should surprise nobody......it is obvious that Chen was pencil pushed all the way through with the hopes that the next guy could do something with him. He was in the tower when the orders came down that a Stryker was on it's way to get him that day.

So Goatz...you are ready to condemn every man and women in the US military for the failings of a few...is that what you are saying???

Very narrow minded and racist Koatz. And extremely uneducated as well.

Just FYI for you wanna be race card playing morons out there, go inside any unit in the military and you will find blacks calling each other nggr, and NO PROBLEM. Hispanics calling each other spics and no problem. And hell, I bet NONE of you so called poor poor minorities realize that the MAJORITY of those on death row are not black, hispanic, asian, or little green men. They are caucasians. But hey, let's play race.

Do you need to be reminded of Chuck Rangel and the TAX FRAUD he committed. A black democrat who chaired the house ways and means committee. The same committee that writes our tax laws. He didn't report MILLIONS of dollars of income on rental properties. When confronted with the possibility of expulsion from congress, what happened? How about the Black Congressional Caucus and an outcry from the NAACP. That's right TAX FRAUD washed under the bridge with a simple reprimand.

Now you want the truth as to why Chen was "abused". He was a substandard soldier, who slept on guard duty, who wasted valuable resources, who could not be depended on to wipe his own ass, much less stand watch over his fellow soldiers. His hazing is NOT and was NOT racially motivated. The same things happen to ANY SUBSTANDARD SOLDIER. It is the unit trying to "motivate" substandard performance with unconventional behavioral modification techniques. Now while this, in our touchy feely liberal kumbaya singing society sounds harsh and unacceptable, what is even more UNACCEPTABLE is a sentry sleeping on guard duty in a combat zone. How many would have died as a result of HIS NEGLIGENCE, and how many of you would be sympathetic to someone that just got half his unit wiped out for copping Zs on duty.

It might be barbaric. And it might be socially unacceptable. And yes you sure as hell can say something else should have been done. But the same bullsht you people are crying about now, you would have been crying about if poor poor Chen would have been courtsmartialed for dereliction to duty. You would still be saying he was singled out for being Asian. Never mind the danger, the threat to his fellow soldiers...

Chen chose to take his own life. He could have easily gone to the CO and filed conscientious objector status and walked away. He could have easily gone to the shrink or the company chaplin or even a medic and identified himself as unfit for duty. But he didn't. You people need to start realizing that a combat zone is no place to play touchy feely. If anything, you should be complaining about how HE wasn't washed out during his training. And yes, I have sympathy for his family, but I sure as hell have more sympathy for the guys in his unit that could have been killed because of his substandard performance.

Will, they aren't interested in the truth. You know that!

Will, while I understand his issues as a substandard soldier I do not believe hazing is a motivational technique that will set a soldier on a right path, His supervisors blew it, he should never have been put in a position to guard the lives of others.....they new he was not up to the job.....the answer.....general or dishonorable discharge......not some moronic children playing with the laws that govern our soldiers.....I served during VietNam so I am an old vet but I still believe we have the greatest military presence in the world.....but sadly these individuals did not portray that greatness.

Will the watcher, what the hell do you know about combat, or the military? I know. I know the kind of idiots who served with me, and who I am sure still make up a portion of our armed forces. The guys who don't give a F#ck about anything, who treat killing as a sport. The kind of guys you DON'T want behind you in a tough spot. That's who these pr#cks are.

Katz. This has nothing to do with race, rather a man who did not belong there. No matter his race.

Our military forces have been hand slapped (no catholic reference) to make sure everyone can join. Not only that but there is no discipline, personal responsibility, and everyone is being punished but the person at fault.

Katz

I have served in the military and in a couple of combat zones. You think it is about race and it isn't. It is about knowing the other guy has your back in a tight spot. I was a gunner in my truck and we had one dismount (who is white like me) who had the tendency to fall asleep on patrol. He was counseled by the team leader, squad leader. platoon sergeant and the paltoon leader but he would always fall to sleep in the vehicle. The last time that he ever fell asleep, I gave him the gunner's boot (size 12 into his Helmet). He went to the team leader to complain and the team leader decked him. However for the rest of the tour, he never fell asleep again. Oh yeah, I was the best man at his wedding.

Really........Do you realize how many suicides occur each month? As much as I hate to say it, if you are not a minority it doesn't make the news. 26 suicides of active duty soldiers just this past month of July.......116 so far this year.......168 total last year.

dont make this a grandstand for politics that is not what it is about.......get on your soap box somewhere else.

All Obama's fault. Wake up loser.

Good thing you're a mother and not a soldier.

i have to disagree with one thing and as a criminal justice major......do this crime in the public sector and you are looking at 25 to life. Anyone who is present is any part of the crime they are as guilty as the person who commited the actual crime.......at least in most states.

Calley only served three and a half years for ordering the execution of 22 innocent people at My Lai.

In reading this I was just waiting for somebody to blame Obama and flippmom you did not disappoint me - when will all you haters of this President crawl back under the rock you belong?

My husband was in the Air Force and he is as upset about this as any good serving man - sorry I do not believe justice was served

My mother in law committed suicide.....who's fault was it? Her kids? Her husband? Tell me......A friends niece committed suicide last year, 7 mos. after having a baby....is the babies fault? What about Tony Dungy's son? Was it the fault of Tony Dungy? Maybe it was his siblings, teachers, friends? Tell us what and who FORCES one to commit suicide?

Well, maybe they shouldn't be at war, not necessarily the military but go to war. Of the many soldiers I have spoken to they do not want females going to war with them. Some felt a protective nature towards them, with women and their different needs causes resentment, sex (which can be an article 15), and let's be honest; the physical endurance which is needed and menstrual cycles.

Kate, I understand it took me 35 years to get the military to listen that I had been sexually abused by my first sgt.......and it's sad to think it is still happening today.......WOMEN ARE A VITAL PART OF THE MILITARY AT LEAST WE DIDN'T LIE IN OUR BUNKS AND NIGHT AND CRY THAT WE WANTED TO GO HOME LIKE OUR MALE COUNTERPARTS. WOMEN ARE STRONG BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN FORCED INTO THAT ROLE AND WE DO IT WITH NO BITCHIN.

Huh....well lady believe me the women bitch all the time but cannot be reprimanded or put on crap duty. They will call discrimination and will win. Women have not been FORCED into war but have begged to be and went to court to get this opportunity. But want lighter responsibilities, better bases, housing, pay for getting a break in required policies. And with that, many men should not go to war as well or even join the military, hence Mr. Chen.

I do not know you from @!$%# but unless you have been in war you cannot spew Gloria A., crap. I never said women should not serve but not go to war. So unless you have been there or have more than one conversation from a female soldier who was treated like any other AMERICAN SOLDIER you have no leg to stand on. Sure, you can speak your mind but do not sit there in your all capital words yelling and insulting someone you do not know with sarcasm.

lovetherain - Oh my god where would WW11 have been without the women? Great Book I gave my husband OSS - The Unknown Story of the Men and Women of WW11's OSS

I don't know if you read books - but without women - one woman even with one leg and carried on should change your view on how valuable women are in peace and war

Many were tortured - many died both men and women but they remained true

I never said women should not serve the military. I said not go to war. Big difference. I have tremendous amount of respect for the women who stood up and did what needed to be done. But that was not being in combat.

And yes I do read books, which is how I learned of the women who did what needed to be done. It truly is amazing of the sacrifice and heartbreak of the circumstances, which has paved the way for females across the board. However, my opinion is women should not be in combat.

i hope these 8 asswipes who got off lightly "eat there own gun" for what they done

100% agree Al-387397. He should have never been able to graduate from boot camp but our military are not allowed to mentally, physically, or emotionally prepare our soldiers today.

My husband has done two tours in Iraq (with National Guard) and there were many who had never shot a weapon before, b......t in its own right, as well as many sent home because "it wasn't what they thought it would be". We don't need soldiers who cannot handle what they are needing to do. I am glad that Mr. Chen was not with my husband on lookout when he fell asleep (more than once). They shouldn't have to be looking over their shoulder even more because he couldn't cut it.

lovetherain.......When he got to the COP he did NOT know how to use his weapon or his equipment......how he made it through basic should be the issue here. That is where the ball was dropped. How do you get assigned to a rifle squad not knowing how to fire the rifle?

thats why we need the robots.gooooooooood.

What???

Ok. I will take all your tax dollars to protect someone else but you. He put others in jeopardy by being an inadequate soldier.