I wonder when Praying became the accepted paradigm in Religious communities, it seems to be a self serving act, specially in a Forum where the victims family will never read it (I wouldn't read forum comments if it was my family)?!

I was always taught that prayer is counterproductive. God has his plan, and if you are praying for him to change it, that's pretty selfish. Just accept his plan. If your loved one dies, he's just getting into heaven than much quicker.

does it hurt you, db?

@drainbramage

it seems to be a self serving act,

As are the vast majority of actions taken daily by every human on the planet. So what was your point exactly?

I was thinking two less people that will grow up needing social services thus a relief for tax payers. 81% of all black have been arrested.

Backcountry; yes, I had your same sentiments in mind when I posted. Most of my self serving acts are necessities of life, it just happens that offering my prayers on an Internet forum isn't one of them. If offering your prayers on the Internet helps you - go for it...care to explain HOW it helps you?

@drainbramage

If offering your prayers on the Internet helps you - go for it...care to explain HOW it helps you?

I'm agnostic so I don't pray ever for any reason but it doesn't seem all that hard to figure why people do. If you've got a headache it's not necessary to take an aspirin but most people do because it makes them feel better. People pray because it makes them feel better, seems easy enough to understand to me.

As usual BC missed the main part of the question - why post it to the Internet?

@J_P_PatchesPal_1, aka drainbramage, aka daveohlson-5-0, aka -????

As usual BC missed the main part of the question - why post it to the Internet?

Oh I'm sorry, was that the main point? I just assumed no one was stupid enough to ask a question that was ANSWERED IN THE ARTICLE HEADER - "'Asking for prayers' for boy missing in Yosemite river". Or did you think they were expecting people to call them on the phone?

Guess I should know better than to make any assumptions regarding the intelligence of anyone on the net.

@J_P_PatchesPal_1

You need to change your name! You are NO patches pal! And certanily NOT #1 !!! JP would not have condoned how mean you are. I am not saying that you have to agree with people positng prayers etc, but you do not need to be so nasty about it. Shame on you! I hope JP Patches haunts you.

Julia; there are hundreds of these stories every day in our World, perpetual heartbroken, now that's heartbreaking. Nothing in life is forever/permanent (a little Buddha enlightenment goes a long way).

Julia, Why are you heartbroken?

Julia is always heart broken because it gets her attention. "Oh, it will be ok", or "It's alright I love you". Nothing more than a troll seeking attention.

@Pedro Sanchez-2919871

Julia is always heart broken because it gets her attention. "Oh, it will be ok", or "It's alright I love you". Nothing more than a troll seeking attention

Out of curiosity, are you the pot or the kettle?

URQ - I am wondering why you felt the need to post anything. The family certainly doesn't need your explanations and I don't think most of us want to read them either. You should have left it classy by sayimg your thought were with them without mocking others.

Does praying absolve the parents from negligence? Clearly they took children through river when they shouldn't have. Why should children 10 and 6 be "wading the river"? That is criminally negligent.

BDan you're right that respect is earned. Just calling yourself a christian doesn't entitle you to any. And by the way, our forefathers weren't fighting for "christian" freedom, they were fighting for "religious" freedom, which includes the right to NOT be brainwashed and coerced into following some fictional being that doesn't even exist. If you feel the need to adhere to the dogma because it's the only way you can justify your miserable existence, go ahead.

And by the way, I'm sure the family was doing a lot of praying BEFORE the boys drowned. We can see how much good it did them.

Deenie - Since yours wee such positive uplifting comments to the family, are you the pot or the kettle?

And out of the pond scum comes the anti religious bigots. You show your true colors that is for sure.

I cringe every time I see something that will spark comments such as all of these. I dread the posts from the religious and non-religious alike; they are all equally hateful. Why everyone posting the comments can't see that is beyond me, but I am also disgusted at myself for always reading them. Shame on me, and shame on all of you.

At this point if you are a praying person, pray for peace. If there is a conscious supreme being with the power to hear and to act perhaps it will grant peace. I can't hold my breath any longer however. Countless children die from many causes each minute of each day. Prayer unfortunately didn't help these and won't help those who are dying as you are reading this. Sad but true.

What I can do is help those around me in need and give a bit when I can to quality charitable groups.

If I want to make this world a better place I must start with the person I see in the mirror every morning. Once I "take the beam out of my own eye, then I can remove those in others' eyes." (As Jesus is thought to have said.)

@URQ196

nope not a troll, just science and logic oriented,

It's not your orientation that makes you a troll, it's the fact that you feel the need to make a post solely to put others down for their orientation that makes you one.

The question becomes, how can someone claiming to be "science and logic oriented" be able to con themselves into believing that they are not a troll for making such a post. I know quite a few Christians who are far less delusional than you are given the fact that you can manage to convince yourself of such a thing.

And out of the pond scum comes the anti atheist bigots. You show your true colors that is for sure.

We must not respond to trolls that come on with their anti religious jargon. Just scroll on by...

I will Pray for this family to find peace and comfort and little Andres to be found, and no one can stop me.

@makememad

And out of the pond scum comes the anti atheist bigots. You show your true colors that is for sure.

Give it rest dude. You're no better than the Bible thumpers who jump onto a science thread and preach. This thread was clearly going to attract religious types so why are you here if not to be a troll? Try not to be hypocritical if you want to be taken seriously.

LMAO; Backcountry telling others to give it a rest - the guy who made 50 posts defending Pink Slime...priceless.

@drainbramage

LMAO; Backcountry telling others to give it a rest - the guy who made 50 posts defending Pink Slime...priceless.

My posts were 100% fact based. If you can't see the diference between posting on a forum simply to bash others for their beliefs and posting facts to refute BS then I'm sure you find everything priceless.

Of course I realize BS is something you have no issue with when posting but I guess it's just a pet peeve for me. Each to his own as they say.

Right BC, you never troll, silly me.

I would not want your money and hope your post stays up so you can look at it the morning. FYI, Most people who give money don't wave a flag praising themselves.

Well, I don't know how I'm waving a flag since I'm posting this as seattle_mary, not a name I go by in the real world, if I introduced myself to people and then brought up my charity work and contributions yeah that would be annoying. In this case, I was using it to illustrate that I do give and will continue to give, but I won't support this cause.

As for looking at in the morning, I assure you I will feel the same.

Though I am curious are you going to be sending a check? Oh, and as long as you don't take from any of the charities I support, you can rest assure that you won't be receiving any of my ill mannered dollars :)

seattle-mary - Why on earth did you feel the need to talk about your charity work and why you wouldn't be donating? This is not about you. Saying your heart goes out to the family was great, keep the rest to yourself.

seattle_mary:

I understand your point about what the parents possibly did wrong in this situation, but you must know that the parents will beat themselves up more than you ever could over the loss of all of their children. So please spare them your scorn....

seattle_mary: Good thing you've never made a mistake in your life...especially one that cost you your children. Your comments are dispicable. Prayers for this family...they will never be the same.

Deenie and Kathy,

Please reread my second post, especially the first paragraph. I think most Americans agree that supporting charities and giving to good organizations and causes are important, but not all of us to it on a regular bases, I personally do. Now the reason that I brought my past endeavors up is to show that I will always support something I believe in, but in the articles I read about the other horrible incidents I didn't see any request for donations, that doesn't mean there weren't requests, just that the articles I read didn't include any. So you couple that with the fact that the parents should of known better and it leaves me confused about the request for cash.

I am curious if anyone will contribute and heck, my callous and cruel remarks might be the catalyst that causes those that I enrage to donate or to even donate more, my post was to gauge how many will donate or agree with me.

As for the concept of bragging about charity work....we're online, I don't know you and you don't know me, there is no reason to try to impress anyone, I somehow doubt we'll ever meet and even if we do, I don't get introduced as seattle_mary and my philanthropic side is something I've never brought up in daily conversation, obviously friends and family know what I do, but its not a small talk conversation. It's only talked about to illustrate a point, it is to show that I put my money where my mouth is.

To contrast this story, I read the comments on the bullied school bus rider (on another news outlet site), and I was impressed by how many people said they've never donated online before but were heading over to give the lady a couple of bucks. I'm not seeing that in this comment section, I'm just seeing 'thoughts and prayers' and the moral outrage against my audacity to question their asking for money.

Well stated. I agree with you. Why do American's feel compelled to set-up fund accounts? This family was wading in a dangerous area with children, so they need to take personal responsibility-financial costs included. I've been to Yosemite, I've hiked, camped and yes, waded in rivers in Yosemite without incident because I use the brain that God gave me to avoid dangerous areas.

I feel the same way about the bus monitor who received over $500,000 in donations. That is totally ridiculous. Some wussy adult gets berated and bullied by kids and she cries? Yeah, so what! Whatever happened to standing up for yourself. SHE'S THE ADULT! ACT LIKE ONE! It's not like she feared for her life. That $500,000 could have done a hell of a lot of good in cancer research, food panties or a hundred other charities that would benefit hundreds, if not thousands of people. Instead one old wussy cry baby gets to retire. Sheeesh!

If the church wants to help their member with expenses, then let them and leave the rest of us out of it.

I can't imagine why anyone would wade in that section of the river. Is the river calm there now because of the snow melt being petered out? I know everytime I've been there the river has called out Danger, Danger, Danger.

Nobody cares about your charities and nobody wants your frikken money.

Two kids are dead. Or do you only care about the precious ponies nobody can ride anymore?

Seems that for Seattle_mary and artsylady, it is all about them.

RIP young lads and condolences to the families.

FYI, Most people who give money don't wave a flag praising themselves.

And most churches don't solicit funds for family tragedies. What do they collect tithing for?

Why do American's feel compelled to set-up fund accounts?

I'm still trying to decide the majority reason - compensate for ignorance or reward for negligence. Actually the reward for negligence is the results of lawsuits. So it must be the former.

This article didn't give a lot of detail. They should've consulted with seattle mary. She appears to have been there or she is omniscient.

Terrible tragedy for the family. My condolences for their loss.

There is no doubt a reason for asking for donations. Maybe the family is poor and can't pay the cost of two funerals. Maybe they are so grief stricken that some don't see them returning to work any time soon.

If you don't wish to donate don't.

" fund has been set up for the family."

It doesn't sound like the family had anything to do with it. People often send money spontaneously when there are news reports of tragedies, and somebody has to deal with it. Seems like an appropriate detail for the church to take care of.

Kathy,

There is nothing cruel or heartless or egotistical about Seattle Mary's comments. She's quite logical and rational and has not gotten caught up in the false emotion that this story and the website that published it want you to have...but it's clear that many of the rest of you are caught up in it.

And people like you say Christians believe in fables...

To quote a far wiser young man by the name of Linus Van Pelt (who was anything BUT a brat):

*sigh*

USMCBrat... Excellent quote! Never heard this one before, but I will remember it. May the kids R.I.P. If they are able to locate the missing child still alive, he is very fortunate and luck certainly was on his side.

BDan8o4643

Well...you do believe in a talking snake....just saying.

Also you should know that in the military, "Brat" is a term of endearment most of the time.

Carolyn,

I was wondering that myself, but I guess I didn't phrase as well as you did since I've seemed to have stirred some resentment.

Thanks for expressing my question in a simpler and smoother way.

Perhaps because they are a family of few means and funerals are incredibly expensive?

And we don't know that the family has asked for anything - may have been friends, fellow church members, perhaps kind strangers who set up the fund.

The article stated: "A fund has been set up for the family.

A fund has been set up for the family.

And to send money to the church. Where is the church in times of financial need? After all, they were on a religious retreat.

FYI, a fund is set up because people usually send flowers and what happen is that so many flowers are at the funeral that most get thrown out or donated to friends and family that it appear that the person that took the time and money to send the flowers does not get the thought and appreciation that went into such a thoughtful gesture.

Shona1.....it's such a beautiful thing to see someone on the other side of the world give love, caring and compassion the way you do. Thank you so much for being the way you are....very much a diamond in the rough.

A/noon Isaca...There are many that quietly watch what happens around our world. At times there seems to be so much tragedy, darkness and at times "pure evil"...If a person just says something, no matter how small, maybe it just helps to lift the darkness a little. The good will always out weigh the evil, what ever form that takes. They have not asked for much, just a simple prayer which is easily granted from across the Pacific. From your own comments I see there is a "diamond in the rough" over there to. Have a good day where ever you are....

I agree with you that every little bit counts and maybe good does outweigh evil. But that means that there must be more evil in existence because nature strives for balance.

A/noon to you as well Shona1...You're absolutely right, just a little something definitely goes a long way and sometimes it's the best thing one could ever receive...anything to shine some light in that darkness is definitely a godsend for many. Thank you for your kind words...have a beautiful day yourself.

Tdub....I agree that there is a great deal of evil in this world with or without balance...but I personally chose to look to the good in life...perhaps with all the good we do in this world (no matter how small) we can show the world that the good can out weigh the evil that exists :)

Jeez Mary, calm down.

I think what represents our city is that we like to discuss and talk about our differences, something we can usually do like civil adults. One of the things I like most about where we live is that I love going out to eat a meal by myself at the bar in the restaurant and striking up a conversation with a person next to me.

There is nothing greater then having a conversation with someone who doesn't agree with your views and being able to learn why they think the way they think. Sometimes I change sometimes they change, though most often we just gain a greater appreciation for our fellow human beings.

Seattle_mary -

Again, this news article isn't about you. I doubt if anyone on this thread cares about you dining preferences. You should maybe go to facebook and find yourself some "friends."

There is nothing cruel or heartless or egotistical about Seattle Mary's comments. She's quite logical and rational and has not gotten caught up in the false emotion that this story and the website that published it want you to have...but it's clear that many of the rest of you are caught up in it.

Thank you lifetraveller.

mpa:

Your right, the article isn't about me, but the comments from the other Mary was, hence the reason I responded as such. Your comment about facebook and "friends" is interesting. The reason I didn't feel like I was bragging about my charity work is because I don't do these cyber friends, I don't do facebook, and no one in the real world knows that I'm seattle_mary.

I have a lot of friends and family, but I love meeting new people and exchanging ideas. Disagreements, as long as they are handled without personal attacks, are what makes us all so interesting.

This is day five since the little guy went missing. Sadly, they are just looking to recover the body. Not much hope for him still being alive.

And you, Al, poseess all the fine qualities that define a jerk.

the fine qualities that define a jerk.

Wow! So now verbalizing realistic comments define a jerk. So that must mean that just thinking realistic comments defines a hypocrite?

No, thinker, I define a jerk as someone who feels the need to determine for the grieving, that if prayers worked the first son wouldn't have died.

Yes, well, mpa, my prayers are with you, too. Maybe they will work their magic on your hypocritical soul since it's five days and you've determined for the grieving that neither prayers nor a search party will work for the second son. Guess by your definition that makes you an even bigger jerk.

My hope is that they will still find the second son. Stranger things have happened.

Well considering the title of the article is"Asking for Prayers for missing boy" why would people not mention they are praying for them, Unless of course it is one of the people who do not believe who search out these types of articles so they can belittle and demean those who do believe.

There's plenty of ways of offering support without bleating out going bible belting religious on others. Offer prayers. Shut up. Move on. Not that hard.

Please re-read this article. It is not like the mother threw them into a raging river or creek. Apparently she thought it was not dangerous otherwise I do not think she would purposely put her children in harm's way