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Courtesy Daniel Kinberg
Daniel Kinberg, a former Navy Corpsman who was diagnosed with an inflammatory joint disease and post-traumatic stress disorder after returning from Afghanistan in 2010.
Daniel Kinberg had not planned on leaving the Navy. The second class petty officer was a reservist who enlisted in 1994 and eventually served as a Navy Corpsman to Marines deployed in Afghanistan's Helmand Province from October 2009 to June 2010.
Kinberg, a medical specialist, was constantly under fire. A suicide bomber struck in a bazaar, killing one of Kinberg's closest friends, and he was the first to respond. When the vehicle of his sergeant major was struck by an improvised explosive device, he could not attempt a rescue as it burned. He was often approached by Afghans who needed medical attention for their injured or dying children.
The deployment took a physical and mental toll on Kinberg, who is 40 and lives in San Diego. "We were always fearing for our lives every second and not knowing if the next step you take is going to be your last," he told NBC News.
He returned from the deployment with terrible back pain, which he attributes to frequent dives for cover and daylong foot patrols in rugged terrain with a full combat load. He was soon diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, a disease characterized by inflammation in the spinal and pelvic joints. The disease can be hereditary, but Kinberg did not experience symptoms until during combat.
When a doctor said in June 2010 that he could not be deployed again as a result, it was a "tough blow." A few months later, after having trouble reintegrating, Kinberg was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.
The yearlong battle that followed, however, as Kinberg attempted to retire from the Navy with disability and medical benefits, was more difficult than he could have imagined. At first, the military denied him a retirement with full benefits, arguing that the PTSD and ankylosing spondylitis pre-existed his service.
Experts who appeal cases like Kinberg's say his is one of many in which the military may wrongly try to separate an injured service member without benefits. Even if a service member is given a favorable decision, the average wait in each of the services is a year or longer, and most are left trying to navigate in a bureaucratic system that is not always kind to those who will never deploy again.
Last month, the disability system was criticized in a Congressional hearing for the long waits. As of late July, there were more than 26,000 open cases across the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. In the Army, which accounts for two-thirds of the caseload, service members wait the longest at an average of 427 days; the goal set by the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs is to process active-duty cases in 295 days.
Medical retirement has been under Congressional scrutiny since 2007, when several commissions revealed that service members were frequently denied legitimate disability benefits and that an outdated processing system resulted in waits as long as 540 days. Since then, policies issued by DOD as well as Congressional legislation have resulted in significant improvements, primarily the streamlined process known as the Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES), which allows DOD and VA to jointly assess medical conditions and disability ratings.
Veterans advocate Michael Parker, a former lieutenant colonel in the Army who estimates assisting on hundreds of disability cases in the past seven years, said that while the changes have led to better outcomes, many service members like Kinberg continue to be denied legitimate but costly benefits.
Service members often approach Parker, who is not a lawyer and does not charge a fee, after they're found fit to serve despite severe injuries, or if the military or VA has ruled the condition in question does not deserve a disability rating high enough to qualify for benefits; the threshold is 30 percent.
"Somebody will come to me and say, 'My case is broken, can you help me?' " Parker told NBC News. "Every day there is a new situation that is counter to taking care of wounded people."
Parker has seen cases in which the military "cherry picked" from a number of injuries, selecting the least aggravated one and assigning it a disability rating that did not qualify for full benefits upon retirement.
He has also seen a range of perplexing cases, including a combat Marine who in 2010 was first found unfit due to service-related disabilities, but not at a 30 percent rating. The decision was then reversed and he was found fit for duty, but he was subsequently separated without benefits. When he tried to re-enlist, the Marine was denied on the grounds that his conditions disqualified him for service.
Congress soon passed laws prohibiting the military from discharging a service member due to a condition for which he or she had been previously evaluated and found fit for duty. Parker said the legislation is important, but that the military has found different ways to withhold disability benefits; he has handled cases where service members are administratively discharged for a service-connected disability before they even enter or complete IDES.
Daniel Kinberg was prepared for a difficult process. “I never heard a good thing about it,” he said. “Everyone says this is a nightmare.”
Kinberg's medical conditions were assessed by a three-person physical evaluation board (PEB), which found him unfit for duty as a result of the ankylosing spondylitis and PTSD, but said that both conditions were pre-existing. Specifically, the board indicated that the PTSD may have been tied to his ankylosing spondylitis, not combat. His case was sent to VA to receive a disability rating, and it returned a different decision: the PTSD was service-connected and received a 100 percent rating, which would have allowed him to retire with full benefits.
The Navy, however, disagreed, and enforced its original finding that the conditions pre-existed service — without providing evidence to prove its case as required by law. Kinberg would be separated from the military with no DOD medical or disability benefits, though he would receive VA care and benefits.
"It’s a slap in the face," Kinberg said of the decision. "I know I’ll never be the same as I was before ... I used to be this happy guy and I don’t see me ever getting there."
With Parker's representation, Kinberg appealed the decision. First, Parker convincingly argued that neither condition was pre-existing, but then the PEB reversed its original decision and found that the PTSD did not make Kinberg unfit for duty, which again prevented him from receiving a rating high enough for DOD benefits.
In May, Parker successfully appealed that decision before the Navy's physical evaluation board in Washington, D.C. In the end, the board agreed that both conditions were service-connected and made Kinberg unfit for duty, awarding him a 100 percent rating for PTSD, and as a result, a full DOD medical retirement.
In very rare cases, DOD told NBC News, the military can "depart" from a VA rating when approved at a high level. DOD said it did not know of cases in which the military did not follow the VA finding, but there is also no requirement to report those incidences.
Jason Perry, a former Army captain in the Judge Advocate General Corps who now assists service members with disability retirement cases, told NBC News that despite improvements to the medical retirement process, the system still seems "arbitrary."
Often, Perry will see two cases with the same underlying facts, but different decisions. One service member will receive a high disability rating while another gets a substantially lower one.
DOD told NBC News that criteria for judgments differ across the services depending on the type of missions and fitness required of the service member.
Perry said, however, that the discrepancies are partly due to the subjectivity of individual doctors as well as the three-person panel that evaluates the merits of each medical retirement case.
Complaints like these are common on PEBforum.com, a website Perry founded that allows service members to glean intricacies of the process, ask other posters about their cases and learn how to avoid common pitfalls or mistakes.
Perry, who has handled 400 cases as a former Army captain and a for-hire lawyer over the past six-and-a-half years, doesn't believe those who serve on PEBs set out to "low ball" or deny benefits to service members. Instead, he thinks they're attempting to follow the rules, but often make errors in judging whether an injury is service-connected and is worthy of a full medical retirement.
Though designed to keep malingerers from taking advantage of the system, stringency for disability claims can prevent worthy cases of getting a proper ruling.
In Kinberg's case, he felt under constant scrutiny. While on medical hold, he was tasked with driving a shuttle for patients, a duty that too often triggered his PTSD symptoms of hyper-vigilance and irritability.
Instead, he signed up for vocational rehabilitation, a skills-based training program for those with service-connected disabilities, but that was cited as evidence by the PEB that his PTSD was not severe enough to make him unfit for duty. Yet, in Kinberg's opinion, it was the vocational rehabilitation that gave him a crucial "sense of fulfillment" to endure the yearlong wait for a decision on his case.
He also worried about taking advantage of community events and activities held for wounded warriors, fearing his participation might undermine his diagnosis in the eyes of the PEB.
"I didn’t do any of that stuff because I was already warned," he said, referencing advice given to him by other service members.
"It’s a long, drawn out process," Kinberg said of IDES and remaining on medical hold. "Unless you do something with your time there, it’s a very miserable existence. I know people who are suicidal because they don’t have anything going on in their life and they're just sitting in their room and going to doctor’s appointments."
In the July Congressional hearing, VA Secretary Eric Shinseki defended the length of the decision process, explaining that much of that time was necessary for wounded service members to convalesce and receive appropriate medical attention.
However, a report on IDES published by the Government Accountability Office in May found significant delays in completing medical examinations; in 2011, only 31 percent of active-duty cases met the 45-day goal. Officials told GAO that case loads were large and that there were not enough doctors to complete paperwork in a timely manner. The report noted that the Army was in the midst of doubling its staffing for medical evaluations to address the delays.
Neither Parker nor Perry want the timeline goals achieved at the detriment of getting the process right. However, Perry said, long waits can lead to frustration for service members who have no ability to plan for the future, whether it be lining up civilian employment, enrolling in college, or knowing where their children will attend school in a year.
While the delays receive the most attention, there also appears to be a dangerous disconnect between the wounded and their command in some cases.
The Recovering Warrior Task Force, a panel that gives DOD recommendations on policies related to the treatment of the injured, found in the course of conducting focus groups with wounded service members that they often encountered an "adversarial dynamic ... which distracts them from focusing on healing."
The task force wrote in a draft report earlier this year that the Army and Marine Corps might consider how to prevent transition staff from behaving in counter-productive ways, including acting or speaking to injured service members "in a demeaning or hostile way, accusing (them) of malingering in the course of their recovery, breeching privacy by discussing medical and personal matters ..."
Kinberg, who was among a handful of combat-wounded sailors in his medical hold unit of 50 people, witnessed that dynamic. Kinberg said his chain of command included activated reservists who had never been deployed and acted at times as though members of the unit were faking injuries.
Despite these troubling experiences, Kinberg is preparing to move on. The internship he secured through vocational rehabilitation has led to a job, which he will begin after being discharged from the Navy this month. Still, he can't quite fathom his experience in the disability retirement system.
"I thought some people weren’t doing something right," he said. "I did everything by the books, by the numbers and still they come back and say, 'Well you’re zero.' "
"I was somewhat prepared, but I didn’t think it would happen to me."
Jason Strachman Miller contributed to this report.
Rebecca Ruiz is a reporter at NBC News. Follow her on Twitter here.
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Leave a Comment:
It is disgracefull the way our service men are treated. The government treats illegal aliens better. Does anybody else have a problem with this?
Those truly deserving of the benefits should receive them, but it is things like this statement at the end of the article that are troubling.
The guy is trying to claim that he is 100% disabled as result of his service yet he already has a job lined up for when he gets out. If he is able to work then he is most definitely not 100% disabled. This is a prime example of someone playing the system. I know a lot of military and I know many who "start building their disability case" once they make the decision to retire. It is common for personnel who are within a year of retiring to all of the sudden start going to doctors complaining of various maladies. I know several former Navy officers who have spoken to me quite openly about this game. It is not uncommon at all to have pilots start claiming debilitating back pain once they decide they are going to retire. Of course literally months before they start building these cases they were convincing the flight surgeon that they were perfectly fine to fly so they could continue to collect their flight pay. They blame their back problems on years of pulling g's in aircraft. It is a bunch of BS and they go on to continue flying for commercial companies while collecting their disability for their service related back problems. It is these types of scam artist, who are extremely prevalent in the military retired community that have led to the long delays in those who are actually deserving getting their benefits. There needs to be follow up on those who are receiving disability benefits and benefits should be reduced or cancelled entirely if the person is found to be working in a decent paying job. Many collecting disability payments today are also collecting very nice salaries from civilian companies at the same time.
JS, you're right, there is as much fraud in these cases as in any other "assistance" program. But, just like anything else, let's not let the few "bad apples" spoil the barrel. My son-in-law was blown up by a road-planted IED in Afghanistan almost two years ago, spent recovery and rehab time in Walter Reed before it was closed, moved to Belvoir, and remains there to this day, awaiting a decision. He has been declared unfit to return to service, 100% disabled (primarily due to TBI), then later declared "return to duty" (but not deployed), then reassessed again as unfit and 100%. If nothing else, just keeping him in limbo for this period of time is grossly unfair, and certainly not cost effective. His meager benefits, I'm sure, are nowhere near what it's costing to keep him hospitalized. Personally, I think he, and most others in his predicament, have more than earned anything we can do for them.
@ JS, the ratings don't work like you're saying. Someone can be 100% by VA terms and still be able to work. Many do. The amount that you receive for 100% disability is not enough to support a family on. The number is deceptive.
I've been in this system for almost two years just waiting for my separation... I understand where this guy is coming from. I'm also in the same program he is where I have a job lined up and I work for a federal agency now while on active duty.
Even if that were the case, I'd rather have a few hundred thousand service members "gaming" the system than a few million non-members doing it.
JS,
First, the VA compensates for conditions that incurred or were aggravated while in service. The conditions do not have to be due to service but rather they only have to have incurred or aggravated while in service. This is not workman’s comp program. It is disability coverage provided by the government because military member cannot go to AFLAC and get disability coverage. The AFLAC duck will not quack for military members as the inherit risks that come with military service makes covering such individuals for disability is too risky/costly. Is the VA disability program liberal in paying for disability as compared to commercial disability coverage? Absolutely. However, getting VA coverage comes at the high price of honorably serving in the military with all of its risks, limitations on personal rights and freedoms, forced innoculations and the hardships of military duty. One cannot look at the quality of the benefit without looking at the personal and family sacrifice one must make to qualify for such benefits.
Those interested in obtaining VA benefits need to merely join the military and serve honorably. Don’t
forget the Ferris Doctrine that prevents military members from suing for malpractice. If they amputate the wrong leg, it’s too bad. Another reason VA coverage tends to pay better that the commercial market.
My personnel barometer for determining if military benefits are too high is to drive by the recruiting station. If I see a line wrapped around the building waiting to get in, then perhaps it is time to tale a look at the benefit level. I have never seen a line. Instead, I see Uncle Sam speeding gazillions of dollars trying to recruit and retain military members. I see TV, print, and radio commercials and thousands of recruiters trying get people to join (not to mention NASCAR sponsorship for branches of the military to include the National Guard). Gee, I wonder why the military has to spend so much on recruiting and retention if the benefits are so gold plated. Perhaps the sacrifice required outweighs the benefits.
As far as the 100% rating concerned, the VA has a generic cookbook they used to determine the average impairment to the average person’s earning capacity. The problem is that there is no such thing as an average person. Further, a 100% rating pays around $3,000 a month ($36,000/year) which teeters around the poverty level, depending on location and family size. An individual that was making a six figure salary is not that enamored by being knocked down to poverty level due to service connected disabilities.
I am sure the VA would love to develop a practical method to individualize the impact and lost earnings capacity of service connected disabilities. However, the VA is already backlogged beyond belief using the boilerplate average of the average technique. Having to assess actual impairment and actual earning
capacity loss at the individual level is way beyond the VA’s current capability.
As far as the DoD disability benefits, that is a different animal. It is not really disability compensation. It is actually career compensation. The purpose of the DoD disability system is two fold: First, to maintain a fit force. Second, to compensate a career lost due to service connected disability. Usually, a member needs 20 years to retire. If I quit my civilian job, I get to keep my vested 401 benefits. If I am forced out of the military at 19 years due to a war wound I can lose my entire retirement equity earned to date. I have
seen this happen to too military members. If they are kicked out of the military due to disability they should get pro rated career compensation. The Dole Shalala made such a recommendation in their report following the 2007 Walter Reed Press coverage. Unfortunately, Congress has failed to act on this recommendation.
Mr. Kinberg: If you're reading, there is a certain VA hospital in a large city in Idaho (starts with a "B") that has a specialist for reviewing cases like yours for military benefits that may be able to help you out. Very compassionate person who I know like a brother, you might say.
Wink, wink, nod, nod.
Keep the faith, my friend.
It can be a bit of a mess, but I can understand why. You just have to be patient and wait for the VA to do its thing. There are a lot of veterans out there who make claims, and they all have to be reviewed. Fortunately when I separated I had hard evidence (MRI's) that could not be refuted. I paid for these MRI's out of my own pocket, but it was worth it to prove my case. I was denied a rating on my back. Again I paid for treatment out of my own pocket, got my civilian doctor to write up my injuries and re-submitted (which is possible) for my back. I haven't got definite word on my back yet, but considering I got a nice check from the VA recently (which I assume is back pay for the 29 months since I've been out) I believe they approved it. There are other things I suffer from, anxiety, insomnia, depression ect... But these would be difficult to prove. I am satisfied with my rating for the time being, but if you don't build your case early you'll easily get denied for your injuries. You have to go to medical and constantly inform them of an injury over and over again so its in your record. If you don't complain about an injury its not recorded, therefore as far as the VA is concerned it doesn't exist. Ya its a mess and it takes a lot of work, but just buckle down, get the proof you need and make your claim. That's all I can say about that.
Still I think this proves that the idea of private medicine of much more effective than socialized medicine. Can you imagine if all the medical facilities in this country were run like this? Ugh. When I was in Canada I spoke to a lot of people who had issues getting into the doctor. If you broke your arm you had to wait 2 weeks before a doctor was even able to see you because the socialized medical system was so bogged down with hypochondriacs and cry babies that the doctors had no time for those who were legitimately injured.
I'd like to know why they didn't bother to compare the frustration, turn-downs, and long waits to SS disability!! I'm really sorry that they have to fight and wait, but I've been fighting and waiting for two years now with no end in sight! On top of that, I'm fighting (again) for my long term disability from work. Nothing I'm diagnosed with is something that can be "subjectively" denied like PTSD, yet the wait is there and the frustration and uncertainty is high. After being an RN for over a decade... spending my life taking care of others and fighting for their well being, I can understand how frustrating this is. However, they need to take into account that the civil system is much worse.
It gets worse. Brandon Raub, a decorated Marine vet, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, was just sent to a psych ward for 30 days because of his Facebook posts about 9-11 and the corruption of the American government. Do you know who Brandon Raub is? Look into it if you don't.
Free Brandon Raub!
Michael Parker-5882151 - Just for the record, disability benefits are non-taxable by either the feds or the state, so $3,000 /month is way above poverty level. It is the equivalent of making about $50,000 to 55,000 /year in taxable wages depending on the state you live in, which is above the national average income. Paying that to someone who is still able to work full time is a little absurd in my book. Disability should be for those who are unable to work, not for those who have some problems due to their military service but are still able to work. I feel for veterans and am ex-military myself, but there are a lot of people out there gaming the military disability system. For example, I think that 100% disability rating for all cases of PTSD is unwarranted. Some mild cases of PTSD are manageable with medication and the person can lead a relatively normal life. I also think that a lot of people claiming PTSD are con artists looking for the free money. There are a lot of non-military people who have been through traumatic experiences and are diagnosed with PTSD but somehow they manage to go on and continue to earn a living. I am not saying that PTSD is not real or that it is not debilitating in some cases, particularly in the near term, but I think that the current politically correct atmosphere surrounding the diagnoses has led to it's abuse by a lot of people looking for some free money.
JS, Just because you "know" people in the military, it doesn't mean you know how the disability system works. Yeah, there are people who suck and try to pull a fast one, but the majority of veterans are truly disabled and have issues. You can be 100% disabled and still able to work....but your body isn't going to function like it used to and might dictate what job you can or cannot have. There is 100% employable and 100% non-employable. I'm prior enlisted and I'm currently fighting for my disability. I am in constant pain, but get judged by people like you who look at me and decide that "I'm too young to be disabled or I don't look disabled". PTSD isn't something to mess around with and can be dangerous. Quit judging people you don't know.
Glad Im not the only one who questions some of these cases. I am a doctor and have many military people that come for records to claim disability as if it is normal process of getting out. Now, I understand that if someone is injured in training or especially combat they deserve the best medical care for as long as it takes. But I see many people who have sat behind a desk for 4 or 14 years that have NEVER deployed and are trying to get 100% disability. One claimed 15 different conditions and expects the military (our taxes) to pay for things that the military had no fault causing. He sat behind a desk in the states for 14 years. Now if we stop giving these people money and shift that money to those who made a real sacrifice then they would have plenty. I served 14 years in the special forces and have claimed nothing, not even schooling. I just feel many people do jobs in America that are helping our country and dangerous but do not get to retire and live off the Government tit for the rest of their lives after they are 38 years old (if one entered at 18 years old). Remember it is a voluntary service, nobody forced them to sign up.
Help those that earned it in combat, but cut out the waste from those who got back pain for sitting on their butt for 4 years behind a desk in the states.
JD,
A person making $36,000 taxable income probably would pay very little in federal taxes after deductions, exemptions, child credits and the like. They might even qualify for a earned income credit. At that income level, being tax free is not very meaningful. You only pay taxes on taxable income, not total income and then a lot of that tax liability is wiped out by dollar-for-dollar tax credits.
Unlike SSDI, VA disability compensation is not designed to compensate for not being able to work at all. It compensates for a decrease in earnings capacity due to service connected disabilities. So regardless if your earnings capacity is $25K a year or $250K a year, service connected disabilities reduce the veteran's income earnings potential. As such, the government compensates for the decreased earnings potential if it is due to service connected disabilities. Disabilities tend to shorten ones life span and that is also a factor in ones overall earnings capacity.
Very few cases of PTSD get rated at 100%. If fact, this was the first 100% schedular PTSD rating I can remember. And yes, I would expect PO2 Kinberg's PTSD rating to decrease as he gets proper treatment.
There is a provision that states if the PTSD is so severe it requires removal from active service, the initial rating for PTSD cannot be less than 50% (VASRD 4.129). But in these cases, a panel of military officers/civilians have declared the member is unable to continue in the military due to the severity of the PTSD. The military member does not get a vote. However, this provision was systematically ignored by the military disability system to avoid having to pay disability retirement. (Google Sabo PTSD class action lawsuit)
My efforts to assist PO2 Kinberg did not have anything to do with his VA disability compensation. It had everything to do with his DoD disability compensation that is designed to compensate for the career lost due to disability. If a federal government civilian employee can no longer do their job due to disability, they receive a disability retirement plus they keep their government thrift savings account to include all of the government contributions to that account. The military disability evaluation system is supposed to provide this type of protection for our military members who lose their career due to disability. Not only is the military system flawed by antiquated laws, it is ripe with abuse by those who administer the program. PO2 Kinberg's case is a prime example; on multiple occasions they tried to punt him without given him the DoD disability benefits he was due under law. He got his disability retirement because I made them follow the rules. The fact outsiders like me are needed to keep the system honest is an indictment on the entire system.
The military can easily avoid paying disability retirement by finding the member fit and allowing them to continue their career. However, this would be a bad idea as a ranks would swell with nondeployable members causing deployable members to have to deploy more often.
Unfortunately, all too often the military disability systems finds wounded warriors unfit and then it creates ways to keep the military disability ratings below 30%, the level required to qualify for disability retirement. I personally called the military out on this practice int he 2005-2007 time frame. As a result, Congress established the Physical Disability Board of Review to review past cases where the member was deemed unfit and rated below 30%. There are about 75,000 members eligible for this review. So far, about half the cases that have been reviewed have resulted in a determination that the member should have been rated over 30% and eligible for disability retirement. At that rate, nearly 40,000 wounded warriors were illegally denied disability retirement and that is just for those separated for disability between 9-11-2001 and 12-31-2009. Way to take care of the troops.
If anybody is gaming the system it is the military disability empire. Every dollar they don't have to pay a wounded warrior is another dollar they can use to buy new weapon systems. Certainly we need to keep our military properly equipped but not at the expense of wounded warriors. As our special operations community would say, "Humans before Hardware".
I was proud when I received my orders as a reservist to deploy to Iraq. A few days before leaving the States I severly injured my knee. Luckily I was able to convince the Doc and my command that with what my tasking was I would be able to make it. I spent my time being closely watch to make sure I was working as I was supposed to and not "taking up space". It was a long deployment with lots of pain but I adjusted and did my job proudly, i just had to learn new ways to move a round to complete the tasks. I came home and redeployed to Kuwait a few months later. My knee injury was in my medical record but I was declared fit to deploy. I again proudly served my country and did my job. I learned how I could get around and worked within the limitations of my knee. When I returned home and again was at medical to process off active duty, I was placed on hold to get treatment for my knee, two years after the original injury. After a few months on hold I finally got to see the Orthopedic Surgeon. It was at the second appointment that he told me I needed surgery to repair my knee but I was a reservist and could pay for it myself. I was than discharged from active duty and sent home. How is it I can be injured while on active duty, be declared fit to deploy twice, be told I am hurt but the military is not gonna fix me, pay for it myself? I understand there is a huge problem with reservists deploying and the trying to get pre existing problems fixed while on active duty. But I wasnt doing this. There is a legitimate problem, active duty broke me, active duty should have fixed me.
I wonder how a person could possibly have a pre-existing condition which would prevent them from being able to serve in the military, then serve in the military, be discharged from the military for having that condition and then be denied coverage.
It appears that the bureaucrats in the DoD have gotten no better in the 50+ years since Joseph Heller first penned "Catch-22."
It is a shame on this country that this government that is so interested in sending its military throughout the world is so intent on preventing its injured from obtaining the benefits they deserve. Although there may be some malingerers (a/k/a fakers, false claims) even if 10% of the 1.5million active members filed claims and were paid approximately $40,000 annually, that would still only account for less than 1% of the nearly $700,000,000,000 spent by the DoD each year.
The reality is, if the DoD is forcing a service member to leave the service due to an injury or condition, they should not be denying any claim associated with that injury or condition.
Each and every member of our armed services have sworn an oath and put their very lives on the line to protect our country. The very least we can do is to care for them when they return from service, wounded.
If we can not afford to take care of them, then we should not be sending them to war at all.
JS in SD:
Why don't you go over to Balboa Naval Hospital, and hit the VA Compensation Office in Mission Valley and find out a little.
You have several misconceptions and screwed up ideas as to what it's all about.
This article is only the tip of the iceberg. The US military is the only branch of the government which offsets retired pay by the amount of disability. In other words, if you receive a $3000 retirement with a 30% disability rating....retirement is reduced by $1,000 and the non-taxable amount comes from the VA.
Any other federal employee gets the retirement PLUS a disability benefit.
I know from reading your posts inthe past that you are supportive of the military. Trust me, if there are people scamming the disability system, it doesn't last long.
I bet I know a LOT more disabled vets than you, and the things you are concerned about are almost non -existant.
I am a retired corpsman with 30%. I had a job lined up upon retirement. One has nothing to do with the other.......Tell ya' what, I'd give it up to have my back and wrists fully functional again.
And the back condition this PO has.....I'd give him his due. I am diagnosed with PTSD. I do not receive any rating for that. I just figured it was part of my deal, and I've had enough therapy to know how to deal with the anxiety attacks.
NONE of us did what we did to get rich.
Just to confirm to you guys above:
You do realize you are debating with THE Colonel Parker from the article (Michael Parker). Thank you Colonel for all those you have helped,
Salute!
For JS- you do realize that the money they get for this 100% disability is not able to truly cover a person's expenses. Even if my husband got 100%(which he is not), we can not life off that money a month. In the service they provide you housing and other benefits that go away once you retire. That is the only reason are service members are not on the street. We have 2 school age kids(elementary) and we can not life off what my husband will make from disability. I certainly hope he can get a job or I can get a job(a feat hard for spouses who move every couple years and have to be the everything parent while the other was deployed) because otherwise all 4 of us will be living on the streets. Do you really think that is the way to thank a man who fought for your freedom? Making his family live on the street because he now is unable to provide for that family because he was injured in combat? If you do I will be sure to add you to my prayer list and next time there is a war you dont want coming to this soil like on 9/11...feel free to stand on the frontlines
JS in SD, I am 100% P&T for PTSD, and chronic HEP 'C', come spend a month with me, or let me spend a month with u, or hire me to a productive job that supports me that I can hang on to for retirement. Better yet-spend 1 year in combat.
This is a real issue that affect our military heroes. Congress should without delay correct these type of problems that affect our military service men and women. Anything less is unacceptable!!!!
If Congress is to do nothing, then we shall vote their lame unpatriotic a$$es out of office.
Republicans typically send our soldiers into war? Larry, you must be too young to shave with that comment. Read some history my boy!
Uncle Sam,
Unfortunately this isn't a problem that Congress can fix, even if Congress could actually do anything. And this isn't simply a question of bureaucratic red tape. It is a question of applying linear decisions to non-linear problems. The assessment process will always be subject to bias, and pressure from higher officers to deny claims, remember Patton's reaction to shell-shocked troops. Even the posts on this board are struggling between paying the "truly" disabled, while punishing the "scammers." The fact that July of 2012 posted the highest number of veteran suicides may belie the "scammer" term.
It is easy to see the missing limbs. And some neural injuries present more or less obvious symptoms. But other injuries are difficult to see or to understand. Oddly, we have sheltered workshops for the other-abled, those with physical or mental needs, where they can earn income. But these employees are not self-sufficient, nor can they earn enough to support themselves.
My brother spent almost 14years as an official quadriplegic. He struggled fiercely to walk again, only to face repeated leg injuries and infections due to his inherent condition. He could occasionally be seen mowing his yard, with his riding mower. But he couldn't tell when to empty his cather bag, or when he had soiled himself, since he had no pressure sensation or sense of smell. He couldn't even adequately clean himself. He would be easy to evaluate. But my daughter-in-law has tachycardia and fibromyalgia, as well as diabetes. What level is her disability? It varies from day to day. What happens if she is evaluated on a "good" day, or by a doctor who just doen't believe in fibromyalgia (they do exist)?
The evaluation process is the problem, and may require a component that is not part of the existing system. And one the military may not want.
Bill, most of the suicides were from soldiers that were never deployed, not those with PTSD. And they do have scammers, lots of them. I would love to see the numbers getting 100% disabilty that never deployed to combat. People on average will get certain conditions just from life. If 20% of people get chronic back pain, and they just happen to be in the military, should we pay for them the rest of thier life?
Being in the military dosen't make one a hero. I was in the military when we were proud just to be call a soldier, but embarrassed if anyone used the hero term. We are over reacting to how we mis treated the Nam vets. So now everyone that wear camo is a hero. Personally it sounds so fake when I hear peoplle say that term for everyone. A hero is someone that goes above and beyond, not just puts on boots.
We just had a combat related suicide here. My girlfriends husband is dealing with his PTSD that has almost lead to his own suicide alot. My husband is a combat vet who was in and IED and is only getting 50% for his PTSD and that is a temporary thing for 5 years and they can take it away. If you are not in the system you shouldnt make bold statements like that. Combat related suicide is a the number one reason for death of a soldier these days. My husband sees the faces of everyone he has killed all the time.
Actually, the 50% rating can be lowered as early as 6 months post separation. On the TDRL, he is supposed to be reviewed at least every 18 months up to five years. He was likely given a 50% PTSD rating via VASRD 4.129. That provisions states he should be reviewed in 6 months. Unfortunately during TDRL review the VA does not do the rating and the PEBs have historically low-balled PTSD ratings. When he goes up for TDRL review, I recommend he files with the VA for a ratings review as well. A VA rating at that time of 30% or more can help rebut a PEB rating of less than 30% and loss of disability retirement.
The issue is, that both sides in the above are correct. Legitimate injured soldiers have a system that is overburdened and was not set up for this many soldiers. BUT, the amount of gaming is also high.
COL Parker said that soldiers don't have AFLAC. That is exactly the issue. Regardless if you came in to the service with a medical issue or develop something totally not related to serving in the military. You are eligible for disability.
I spent two years on active duty in 2005/2006 doing case management of reserve/guard soldiers with medical issues. Our program got them back home and treated at local health facilities. I cannot tell you how many of those medical issues had nothing to do with being in the service.
When you are in the Military, they pay for a basic life insurance. If you want more, you pay for it yourself. Military should do the same with disability. Have a line of duty for an injury, you get disability, Have a medical condition not caused as part of your military job, and you have a disability insurance. You would get a basic disability insurance and if you want more, you pay for it.
I saw so much fraud that I had to stop almost on a daily basis to remind myself that I was doing my job to assist those that really needed help.
Examples:
Reserve Maj in the Army 2 months who develops cancer. No way this is related to his service. He gets treated at one of the most prestigious health care facility, gets to sleep in his home, gets two years of full pay while being treated and then complains when the army only gives him a 50% disability. If he had not gone on active duty, I doubt he would have even had a home after he paid all the medical bills.
A female reserve soldier is being discharged after working one year at a military base in the US. During her exit physical, she asks if they can test her for Hep C. They do and Lo and Behold, she is positive. Sent to our program for care, we learn that she was diagnosed with Hep C prior to going on active duty and lied during her call up physical. Army said since it was not documented she was entitled to 100% disability.
Female soldier enlists in the army and is discharged at 18 months due to personality issues. You are not supposed to get VA benefits unless you have been in 24 months. She gets a VA counselor to get her in to the VA and a psyc MD says the army "aggravated" her mental problems (he did not put in the report that she had been hospitalized for severe depression on numerous times prior to enlisting and she falsified her enlistment papers by not mentioning it. She got 100% disability.
I am not saying that all or even a great number of service members claiming medical issues are faking, but when you have a system that hands out money, you have a lot of folks that try to get some of it. God bless to those with valid injuries. I would go back in in a second if I could assist those folks.
28 years, US Army LTC Retired. (no disability)
Catch 22,
You raised some interesting points. If the military was to adopt a disability program akin to the life insurance program (SGLI), it would have to be supplemented by the government due to the higher risk of disability that comes with military service. Also, unlike life insurance, determining ones degree of disability is much more difficult than determining ones degree of death. There would still be disputes if the rules were not well defined and enforced.
Let me address your examples:
Reserve Maj in the Army 2 months who develops cancer. No way this is related to his service. He gets treated at one of the most prestigious health care facility, gets to sleep in his home, gets two years of full pay while being treated and then complains when the army only gives him a 50% disability. If he had not gone on active duty, I doubt he would have even had a home after he paid all the medical bills.
If the cancer was not documented on the entry physical, and absent clear and unmistakable evidence the cancer began before entry, then it is service connected. The military can do whatever tests they want upon entry to look for disabilities and disability risk. Right now they don't look too deep as they have been getting away with discharging members without proper benefits if they become disabled latter in service. Again it is not workman's comp for being hurt on the job. It is disability coverage for become disabled while in service. GEICO is not responsible if my car gets stolen but they are responsible for covering the loss. Same goes for military disability coverage.
BTW: If his cancer was active at the time of separation, he should have been rated 100% and placed on the TDRL.
I would argue the military needs to do more robust testing of recruits. That would not only lead to a fitter force, but it would keep individuals vulnerable of future disabilities away from an intense environment that can trigger life altering disabilities. For example, if the military tested for bone density issues, they could avoid bringing in members vulnerable to bone and joint issues caused by carrying extreme loads and the other physical stains of military service.
Part of the problem we have now can be attributed too the military lower entrance requirements in the 2004-2009 time frame. If you bring on an individual that has vulnerabilities and they break in service, you bought them. A 42 year old private new to service is at a much higher risk of disability than a 20 year old private. The need to recruit enough soldiers during that time frame forced the Army to raise the maximum entry age to a ridiculously high level and assumne higher disability risk. Perhaps penny wise but pound foolish.
A female reserve soldier is being discharged after working one year at a military base in the US. During her exit physical, she asks if they can test her for Hep C. They do and Lo and Behold, she is positive. Sent to our program for care, we learn that she was diagnosed with Hep C prior to going on active duty and lied during her call up physical. Army said since it was not documented she was entitled to 100% disability.
Female soldier enlists in the army and is discharged at 18 months due to personality issues. You are not supposed to get VA benefits unless you have been in 24 months. She gets a VA counselor to get her in to the VA and a psyc MD says the army "aggravated" her mental problems (he did not put in the report that she had been hospitalized for severe depression on numerous times prior to enlisting and she falsified her enlistment papers by not mentioning it. She got 100% disability.
If one is not truthful on their entry/call up physical then they sould not be compensated due to fraud. We have a thing called UCMJ to handle such cases. If they had been truthful on their application, they would not have been let in and therefore the condition whould not have been aggravated while in service.
However, I have seen many cases where a recruited had the member shade the truth so that they could meet their recruitment quota. In such cases, the recruiter should face consequences as well.
We have a lot of agreements Col. I spent the last 20 years as a medical officer for the National Guard doing physical examinations. It was only until after Desert Storm that we started doing physicals on all Guard/Reservists every year. (the amount of drilling reservists and guard members that were non-deployable due to medical issues during DS was very high and significantly affected unit strengths) Even the physicals we do are so limited that few conditions that the soldiers have show up unless they list them. Most do not because they know it will probably end up with a medical board to see if they are fit for duty.
How many people do not have some issues related to just getting older or due to work/recreational injuries? What constitutes an aggravation of these?
You are correct on the UCMJ. Unfortunately, there are people in the military that feel once you are in, the military is responsible for everything. As I remember from my case management tour, if they were able to not be detected for 90 days, everything they came in with became the military's responsibility.
What I find interesting is hearing the stories such are in this article about service members with valid issues (or lacking any documentation of preexisting problems), yet the VA gives out disability benefits to thousands that do not have a documented disability.
Example. I went to a medical conference put on by the VA and sat through a talk on the epidemic of hearing loss that the VA was seeing. I asked the speaker if these were formal, documented losses recorded on an audiogram. The speaker said "No" I am talking about all the soldiers with tinnitus. I asked the speaker if they were aware that just about every returning service person knows that if the tell the VA they have ringing in their ears, they will get a disability. ( I heard soldiers talking about this on my first flight back from Iraq).
When the VA wanted to review the cases of PTSD to validate that the service member was in a theater that would cause PTSD, they got killed by the veterans groups and by the congressmen. They eventually backed down and just handed out the awards (although I am aware of some providers that withheld valid PTsD diagnoses due to their own personal beliefs) I also handled service members who were diagnosed with PTSD that never left the US.
We also have to be clear, that just like after Viet Nam, in a few years, the congress is going to need to cut funding, and the VA is always ripe for those cuts. Service persons who validly need VA services are going to be standing in line behind a large group of members who will get full health care for the most minor issues.
My idea of an AFLAC type insurance is still one that I push. As I stated. If you have an LOD, the military disability system covers it. Have a medical condition or other issue not related to your actual military duties and you use the disability insurance. Just like I get in my civilian job. If I am not injured at work, I have to use that system to cover me. It should be the same for the service. It does not resolve the issue of determining a legitimate LOD, but gives the service memeber something to fall back on if there are disputes on causation.
Remember, a LOD does not necessarily mean it was related to duty. It simply means it incurred or was aggravated while in service.
When I had about 18 years in, my retirement equity based on 18 years of service was worth about $3,000 a month. My doctor was toying with sending me for a MEB at that time. Had I been found unfit for that condition, I likely would have been rated at less than 30%. Thus my retirement equity earned to date would have simply vanished and replaced by a couple hundred bucks a month from the VA.
Remember, DoD disability does not compensate for the impact of the disability. Rather it compensates for the career lost due to disability. How do you protect against losing the retirement equity earned to date when you are kicked out for a service connected disability?
Mike
This is garbage.
Whoever is running this show should be fired, no ifs, ands, buts or maybes, and put someone in place who can treat our wounded brethren right. If our Commander in Chief doesn't have the heart to do the firing, then he should be fired too.
This just isn't right...our fighting forces should not be treated like trash to be thrown away once they have done their duty.
Republicans typically send our soldiers into war while democrats patch up those that survive. Romneys plan for accross the board cuts for all social programs includes VA spending, Obama wants increases. You'll notice the republican opposed to this being added to the budget.
Veterans would see an expansion of health care coverage and benefits under President Barack Obama’s 2010 budget blueprint released Thursday that calls for a 10 percent increase in spending to $53 billion.
The president wants to increase spending for veterans by about $5 billion a year over the next five years to meet growing health care needs.
In his speech to Congress this week, Obama said the country must keep its commitment to those who serve in the armed services “and give our veterans the expanded health care and benefits that they have earned.”
Obama’s overall budget proposal prompted Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., to warn that Americans would have to “turn over more of their hard-earned money to the government to pay for unprecedented spending increases.”
The federal budget would boost programs for 5.5 million veterans getting prosthetics and care for vision, spinal cord and women’s health issues
Programs targeting homeless veterans also would see an increase.
To eliminate long delays in health care after veterans are discharged, the budget calls for more funding to help the Department of Veterans Affairs retrieve electronic medical records from the Defense Department.
The budget also expands eligibility for veterans’ health care to over 500,000 veterans by 2013.
"In his speech to Congress this week, Obama said the country must keep its commitment to those who serve in the armed services “and give our veterans the expanded health care and benefits that they have earned.”
****
The Flip-flopper-In-Chief = In 2009, Obama stated servicemen and women should pay for their own medical benefits/expenses because they knew the dangers going to war.
Obama has had FOUR Years to do something about it.......but what a great idea for an election strategy when he is down in the polls = increase benefits - when everything he has done these past FOUR Years has been to cut benefits and/or delay benefits - and place our Servicemen and women- and US Border Agents - under his deranged RULES of Engagement - that only enhances jeopardizing their safety and their lives - while on the battlefield.
FinaBiscotti: Is that you Romney flip flopper? Sure sounds like him. You argue throughout your posts that republicans support injured vets and Obama opposes them but when proven wrong you simply blame Obama for not being able to get his help for veterans past republicans in congress. Delays in getting veterans benefits fast enough is one of the reasons we need increases in veterans budgets and why Obama has asked for them. You really think republican cuts would achieve that better? You blame Obama for delays in getting benefits then support republicans desire to cut funding. Flip flop.
When you read stories like this you have to wonder why anyone would want the federal government more involved in our healthcare. Interesting that the single payer fans often hold up the VA as an example of how to do it.
Wm. Sanders:
Even the Commander in Chief doesn't have the power to fix this. Don't blame it on him. Try Congress--won't work now due to the majority held by a certain party.............
The President, as commander in chief, can certainly demand DoD and the Services follow well established military disability laws and regulations.
Congress, on the other hand can modify military disability law to fix the holes that have been identified by several commissions over the past few years.
You're right Jean...there are 535 accomplices, plus the good folks at the DOD and VA who have equal
blamecredit for this. Same thing applies.I am dealing with this very problem. I was injured while at the Navy base in Groton, CT and ended up getting forced out due to medical issues, and the VA is not all that helpful. According to Navy legal, I should have received a medical retirement, and I am having a hard time getting along now as my injuries are making holding a non-desk job impossible. Every desk job I have applied for either will not hire veterans or will not hire those that do not already have experience.
The VA needs a major overhaul. Take the money that goes to illegals and put that to making the VA better.
From AngrySailor:
".....The VA needs a major overhaul. Take the money that goes to illegals and put that to making the VA better."
****
Most definitely!
angry
By your own words. The navy forced you out for medical issues. That had nothing to due with the VA.
You should be going after the navy (DOD).
i like the one idea-take all the benifits our house and senate have away and give to the poor-ps: we were all imagrants at one time!
Remf Command, take your meds and a nap then get back with us
I say no to their drugs,apparantly u didn't. I thought this was suppose to be an inteligent group-got no time for arogant punks that think they can abuse others for their right to speach-as a Veteran I gave this to u. Or are u another wanna-be that couldn't pass.BULLET
With all that has happened. All that he has given. All that has been taken away. All that he has been up against. He, "Is preparing to move on. The internship he secured through vocational rehabilitation has led to a job, which he will begin after being discharged from the Navy this month". Does the word hero come to mind? If I ever need emergency services I hope it's him. If he ever does, I hope it's me. I know he is Navy but just the same...Simper Fi, he has earned it.
I am the Michael Parker that is mentioned in the article. The depth and breadth of tactics used by the
Navy to deny DoD disability to sailors and marines is quite disturbing. Seems like barely a week goes by when I have to notify DoD and Congressional contacts about another scheme the Navy has developed to deny disability benefits to sailors and marines. The Navy bends over backwards to avoid paying disability benefits due under law.
I can amplify on the tactics used in PO2 Daniel Kinberg’s case as they illuminate how the Navy PEB system ignores provisions used to protect the service member.
PO2 Kinberg’s first disability decision try to state his unfitting conditions, Ankylosing Spondylitis and PTDS existed prior to service and thus were not eligible for DoD disability benefits. Unfortunately, this is a ongstanding practice used by all of the services. In the 2008 timeframe, I lobbied Congress to put DoD on the same standard as the longstanding VA standard for denying benefits for a disability deemed to have existed prior to service. That standard states that any condition that was not noted on the entry physical is presumed to have been incurred in service. Even if the condition pre-existed service, the condition is presumed to have been aggravated by service and eligible for disability benefits. To overcome the presumptions of service connection and aggravation, the VA or DoD must cite clear and unmistakable evidence that the condition was not incurred nor aggravated in service. Congress passed this provision in the 2009 NDAA that went into effect in October 2008.
PO2 Kinberg’s preexisting disability decision made absolutely no attempt to provide any evidence whatsoever that his Ankylosing Spondylitis or his PTSD preexisted service. At my behest, the Navy ordered a quality review of PO2 Kinberg’s case. This time the Navy insisted the PEB provide clear and unmistakable evidence if they were to deem these condition preexisted service. The PEB could not as these conditions clearly did not manifest until well after PO2 Kinberg entered active duty.
The Navy then released a second disability decision that stated PO2 Kinberg’s Ankylosing Spondylitis and PTSD were, in fact, service connected. However, the Navy pitched another curveball by stated his PTSD, rated 100% disabling by the VA, was suddenly no longer considered an unfitting disability. This allowed the Navy to base his disability benefits on just the Ankylosing Spondylitis which was not rated high enough to qualify for a
disability retirement.
I submitted a second round of appeals that forced the Navy to apply proper standards for determining if a medical condition made an individual unfit for service. This led to PO2 Kinberg receiving a full disability retirement based on a 100% disability rating.
PO2 Kinberg went from a disability discharge without any DoD benefits to a medical separation with severance pay to a full disability retirement. All it took to get him his proper disability retirement was to doggedly insist that the Navy follow long established disability laws and regulations.
While there are numerous military disability issues to resolve, a good start point would be to have Congress (GAO) look into the preexisting condition issue. They should examine every disability the military denied benefits by stating the condition preexisted service. This look should examine the decision rationale to see if those denials came with the required clear and unmistakable evidence required by law to make such determinations. I am sure they would get an eyeful.
Michael A. Parker
LTC,USA (Retired)
Wounded Warrior Advocate
Thank you and all for your service and selflessness to protect our way of life
So he enlisted in the Navy, went through boot-camp, and made HM2 as a drilling reservist while all along suffering from PTSD and ankylosing spondylitis without that being noticed?
Sure - and I pick razor blades out my ass every morning.......
MACS R.J. Riml. USNR, Ret
Sir, you are another of the unsung heroes for the work you have done for our comrades. Salute!
CSM, USA (Retired)
LTC Parker,
As a former USAF dependent of a CPT, USAF (RET), I thank you for your service for this country AND especially for your service for our veterans. The fact that ANY branch of military service is seeking to deny our wounded combat veterans their justly deserved disability retirement makes me very sick and lessens my pride in growing up in the military. I would like to think that our military branches would value the sacrifices that our service members are making and have made in dedicated service to our country. To learn that they do not (and I don't believe that it is limited to our Navy and Marine brethren alone) infuriates me.
Again, Sir, thank you. YOU are a service member to be PROUD of! I (figuratively, since I have never been sworn to Active Duty myself) salute you proudly.
Thank you for your assistance. Others like you have been great help for me in my battle. I've been on medical hold past my contract end date for almost two years and the military doesn't help at all with the process. If I hadn't worked so hard to find information and contacts on my own, I can only imagine where I would be today.
Old-squid,
You are way off base. PO2 Kinberg had no signs of symptoms of either PTSD or Ankylosing Spondylitis upon entry unto active duty in 2009. These conditions manifested after he came on to active duty.
As for the Ankylosing Spondylitis, the Anthrax Vaccination Expert Committee stated in at least two of their reports that the anthrax shot can possibly/probably cause the onset and/or aggravation of disease like ankylosing spondylitis. PO2 Kinberg had multiple anthrax shots.
These types of diseases, in which many people have an increased genetic susceptibility to, require an environmental trigger to manifest. One key trigger is exposure to certain types of bacteria such as salmonella and shigella. A couple of years back, the VA developed presumptions that anyone who has served in the Middle East has been exposed to these types of bacteria.
Goggle “Halliburton reverse osmosis water purification Iraq base camp” and see what your get. In short, Halliburton was pumping super contaminated water into the shower facilities of base camps in Iraq. Our heroes were showering in sewer water. I feel really sorry for those who filled their canteens at these shower points.
As for the PTSD, PO2 Kinberg was attached as a medic to a small Marine reconnaissance unit (about six individuals). Imagine being outside the wire on a near continuous basis with bad guys all around with such a small team. Now add on to that the death and mayhem experienced. Have you ever been assigned to recover body parts after an IED attack? Have you ever picked up a scull and
spinal column and wondered if it belonged to the guy you knew that was killed in the explosion? PO2 Kinberg saw and did things that no human should have to experience. I worry more about those who are not adversely affected by such things. They are the ones I would lay awake at night and worry about.
The biggest problem that I saw when working as a hiring official for the Federal Government, is that many Vet's from the Vietnam Era to the current wars would game the system so that they could qualify for a 30% disability. They would then block anyone else on hiring certificates. Even if they got a 10% rating they could still block alot of people. Some of these fools, would even go as far as submit with their job applications what they had submitted to the Military /VA for an attempt for at least a 30% rating, 10% at a time. They should have never included it with their application. One fool submitted that he contracted Gonnareah in Vietnam and wanted a disabitlity rating for that. Luckily it was turned down, I never laughed so hard in my life that some one thought for paying whores they should get a disability rating. I commonly saw 10% given for trench foot. Trench foot is when their socks were constantly wet from walking through the rice patties in Vietnam in combat boots and the socks not being drying out, it is a foot rash. It goes away and leaves no lasting scares.
I ended up inhereting a Jackarse of E-9 Staff Sargent who retired after 20 years with a 30% disability rating. I finally illegally asked him what his disability was for, after he disobeyed my order to hire from a Labor pool day labors to empty out a storage shed instead of using our small skilled craftsmen which included a 57 WG-10 Electrician who had already suffered a heart attack. The average age of the tradesmen was about 45. The electrican brought me his written notes, where he wrote ignore her orders make staff unload the shed. He tried to lie, until I showed him the note, and then I said, I have always wondered what did you get the 30% for, since you show no compasion to your staff. He says a rash on my arm, with a short sleeve uniform, I could see no rash. He replied, it went away years ago. So here I was stuck with this arrogant former E-9 Collecting half pay about $30k + for life with 30% of that tax free and then he blocks everyone else for a WL-10 Job That in 2001 when this conversation took place paid another 60K. But he plots right before retirement to get this blocking power for Federal jobs to bring in 90K a year in 2001. Then he won't follow his Female college educated engineers direction and almost causes a 57 year old experienced electrician who is busting his but making $40K to lift items over 50-75 lbs. Which could have put the employer at risk of a major workers comp claim if anything had happened to the electrician doing menial work. I told him that these are not 18 year old recruits that you make your Bitches, these are skilled tradesmen who know more than you do in their individual trade. You outsourse and hire menial labor from the day labor pool for day labor work when I tell you to.
This unfortunately is what ruins it for everyone who is honest. Are creeps like this Staff Sargent I was stuck with. The guy who wanted 10% for getting VD in Vietnam. I could tell you alot more from what I saw.
I have also been injured at work and put up with the bs of over zealous claims people, doctors who are outright frauds that say what ever they think workers comp wants them to say. They are the same ones that only have medicaid patients, big clue.
Clolonel Parker thank you for being an advocate for the military. I am a Vietnam era veteran who initially filed my claim in 1983 for injuies to my foot and hearing( I was On Tanks). I have reopened my claim in 2011 since I am having trouble walking and hearing. I've had my VA hearing exam and I was asked when the ringing in my ears started. I told the doctor 1978 or 79 when we were conducting a dry fire exercise in germany and the tank next to me fired a main gun round. The VA doctor put down that the ringing started in 2009. I have had to have a shot in my foot recently because of the pain I was in trying to walk. I've been waiting 29 years for some sort of justice and I'm not going to hold my breath for VA to do the right thing. Thanks again for helping military veterans get thru the maze.
Colonel Parker,
Old Squid was being sarcastic, as noted by "Sure - and I pick razor blades out my ass every morning......."
I think that Joy has hit upon part of command's problem, too many administrators with neither experience nor compassion. Too many would-be Patton-types, or those trying to claw to the top by "efficiently" cutting costs.
The other problem may be in the experience and concern and evaluation time permitted to medical staff, whether military or VA. When my father returned from the WWII South Pacific as a combat squad rifleman, he returned with a persistent recurring case of malaria. It was his good fortune that the family doctor happened to be an Army Air Corp Colonel, who worked the system to get him on disability long enough to finally be able to return to work, on the sand deck of a gray iron foundry. Other doctors were just handing out quinine and telling them to go back to work, their patients didn't fare so well.
My apologies to Old Squid if I mistook the meaning of his post.
Too bad more people arn't like you. Many service officers; commanding officers; and apperantly Major staff in the Military have forgot where they came from or none of our Veterans or service members would have any of these problems. personally I would like to see the whole VA system gone. It does nothing but eat money. They are allowed to show bias;VA providers; due to the fact that each director can set the level of care they are going to give. Same as VA benefit claims officers, and not to mention their benefits they recieve for a job many don't do. The part about whether or not symptoms occured during service-argue this-"where did he see combat and the horror and fear at home". This is reminisant of Vietnam. By the way; having been a Veterans advocate for many - many years, I not only have seen more 100% PTSD service connected claims than 100% for injuries, but am combat service related 100% permanent and total, took 6 months-yes months.
My story is not only to show that we struggle while we go through a MEB but also the struggles that we face after we receive our discharge. In no way is this a finger pointing story and I do not wish to single out individuals. I only want to show that we have a system that is broken not only during the MEB process but also when we file ongoing claims with the Veterans Administration for disabilities that manifest themselves years later after our original discharge. This is not about politics and who is elected to office.
This is about doing what is right for the men and women who raise there right hand and volunteer to enlist in the armed forces.
My story starts on October 12, 1997. I was on active duty serving a two week tour with my local recruiting station prior to being stationed in Korea. On October 12 I fell asleep on my parent’s living room floor and then woke up in the back of an ambulance on the way to the hospital. I don’t remember much of
the ride or the first few hours in the hospital. It was not until later that I found out that I had a grand mal seizure that had lasted about 3 minutes based on the 911 calls and EMT reports. The closes military installation was Malstrom Air Force base in Great Falls. The NCO in charge of the recruiting station made arrangements for me to see medical personal at the installation to take a course of action. Two days later I traveled to Malstrom to meet with the doctors. I was given a permanent profile and told that per military regulation I was none deployable and needed to be medevac’d to Ft. Lewis Washington. I was medevac’d from via the Red Cross to Madigan Army Medical Hospital at Ft. Lewis. I stayed there for two weeks while they conducted a battery of tests to determine what was going on. I was given a permanent profile and was told to go back to the recruiting station. 6 months later I was determined to be AWOL since I had not reported to my duty station in Korea. For the next three months I was in limbo in regards to what needed to occur. Finally the recruiting command was told that I needed to go to Ft. Lewis and would receive instructions once I got there. I packed up my stuff and took off to Ft. Lewis. Once I arrived I was told that I was not deployable and would receive a medical discharge. However the next day I was given an airplane ticket and told to report to my original duty station in Korea. Two weeks later I arrived in Korea for in processing. During the in processing the unit found out about my permanent profile. I was asked
why I was in Korea and told I should be medically discharged. Well they found an opening at the 121st General Hospital and stationed me with the HHC unit. Now fast forward a year stationed in Korea with
many seizures and we are now to May of 1999 and my one year tour of Korea is up. Still no MEB for my seizures and my new orders station me with 1st Special Forces Group at Ft Lewis. In late May 1999 I reported to my next duty station with HHC 3rd Battalion 1st S.F.G. (A). During in processing I was told that I needed to go to jump school since S.F.G. was air born. Well my permanent profile did not allow me to go to jump school and the side effects of the medicine I was taking for my seizures prevented me from
taking a PT test as I passed out during the PT test I was given in Korea to show that I struggled with physical activity. The medical staff with 1st SFG wrote a memorandum for record for allowing me not to meet the standards for weight and BMI since I was required to take a medication with food along with not being able to exercise do to the side effects of the medicine. The command at 1st Special Forces finally got my MEB started in June of 1999. All of my seizure are nocturnal and occur after I stop breathing while I sleep. This is confirmed by statements of roommates in Korea along with my wife. During the MEB process at Ft Lewis the neurology department decided to perform a sleep study based of off my seizures occurring when I would stop breathing while I sleep. Now this is where my headache starts with my disability. The sleep study was inconclusive in finding any findings in regards to sleep apnea since I was not able to sleep during the sleep study. Something was found or determined as I was then scheduled to go to an appointment at the E.N. T clinic at Madigan. During the E.N.T appointment it was determined that I needed to have a partial UPPP surgery for the treatment of sleep apnea. I was scheduled
for surgery to remove my uvula, soft pallet and also have my tongue frenulum clipped since my tongue would not pass my teeth. I was then told that this needed to be included in my MEB and was told
to contact the person who was handling my MEB. I contacted the officer in charge of my MEB about this and was told that my case was a big enough headache and that I had caused enough problems that I just need to take my discharge and go. The reason why my MEB was a headache to the Army was that multiple individuals at Madigan, as well as Korea had failed to follow military regulation in regards to starting my MEB. After morning formation one morning I was called to the side by my Command Sergeant Major and told that there were a lot of people that were in trouble for their failures in regards to my MEB not being started in 1997 when I was first medevac to Ft. Lewis along with the command in Korea for allowing me to stay in country with my profile and medical condition.
In March of 2000 I received my discharge orders for my MEB and was given a 20% service connected disability for my seizures. I traveled back to Montana and filed my disability paper work with the Veterans Administration at Ft. Harrison. Months later I received my letter from the VA in regards to my claim for my seizure disability. Based off of their findings and review of my medical records I was given 60% disability for my service connected epilepsy. Well for the next 7 years I took the same medicine as I was prescribed in the military and continued to have nocturnal seizures. In 2007 the VA determined that
I need to have a sleep study to see if I had sleep apnea. I was sent to Ft. Harrison and the sleep
department conducted a sleep study. The findings were off the charts. I was diagnosed with severe obstructive sleep apnea and was placed on a CPAP. In April of 2011 I submitted paper work to the VA for service connected sleep apnea. In July of 2011 I received a letter stating that I was being given 50%
disability for my sleep apnea and my new overall rating is now at 80%. In September of 2011 I was given an appointment with the VA at Ft Harrison. I attend my appointment and was seen at the nurses’ station. My blood pressure and pulse were taken along with my height and weight. The nurse asked if I had a CPAP as well as if I was still having side effects of sleep apnea. All of which I answered yes to. I was then told I was done. The appointment took all of 5 min. In November of 2011 I received a letter from
the VA that based of the examination in September and in the examiner’s opinion my obstructive sleep apnea was not service connected. In the examiners opinion my sleep apnea was not caused by my military service. I had 60 days to file my appeal and submit supporting documentation. I contacted the D.A.V and started the appeal process. Part of the process for the appeal requires that I get nexus letters from doctors (not nurses) that specialize in sleep apnea. I contacted a local sleep doctor and the doctor agreed to review my case. As part of the review the sleep doctor requested a copy of my original sleep study that was performed in 2000 at Madigan. I sent a formal request to the D.A.V and then the request was sent to the VA. To this date the actual sleep study results from Madigan have never been found. All of my medical records leading up to the sleep study are available and then the medical records start again
after the sleep study. My feeling along with my DAV rep is that the records were destroyed. The sleep doctor reviewed my case and wrote a nexus letter in regards to the opinion that the sleep apnea is service connected and that based off of the surgery that was performed and the follow up test that the only medical reason for the surgery along with the follow up testing is that there was sleep apnea present during the sleep study at Madigan. In February of 2012 I received a second letter from the VA stating that in the examiners opinion my sleep apnea was still not service connected and my disability rating for sleep apnea would be terminated in July of 2011. In the examiners opinion my weight gain after I left the military was the factor for my positive test for OSA in 2007. I again had 60 days to file my Notice of
Disagreement in regards to the findings. I re contacted the D.A.V and was told that I needed to find another doctor to write a nexus letter. Based off of the letter that was written by the sleep doctor for my first appeal process I decided to see a local Ear Nose and Throat specialist for a consultation. The E.N.T doctor reviewed my records and then performed a physical review of my throat, neck and sinus. As soon as he looked at my throat to review the surgery that was performed by the E.N.T clinic at Madigan in 2000 he said “that is why you have obstructive sleep apnea”. He walked over to a picture of the throat on his wall and proceeded to draw what my throat currently looked like after the surgery. I asked if he would write a letter of opinion and he stated that he would. Two weeks later I received a letter from the doctor. The letter clearly states that the surgery that was performed by the E.N.T clinic at Madigan was performed for inappropriate reasons and that the scar tissue that was left from the surgery is the leading factor for my life long disability of severe obstructive sleep apnea. This letter along with a copy of the memorandum for record in regards to my weight issue was sent along with my formal notice of disagreement in April of 2012.
Just last week on August 16th I had a follow up appointment with the sleep department at Ft. Harrison. I spoke openly to the nurse about what was going on with my claim and just based on her review of my records on her computer and her experience with 15+ years working with patient with sleep apnea her opinion was that my sleep apnea is service connected. I just find it odd that the VA in September of 2011 had me see a nurse with no training in regards to sleep apnea and just down the hall was the sleep department. In my opinion I should have been seen by someone in the sleep department as they are the ones that have a background in the medical condition that currently I am being denied disability for.
So now I wait for what I have heard is an average of 400+ days to find out if my claim from service connected sleep apnea will be reinstated. If it is still denied my next step is a formal hearing. From what I have heard talking to other disabled veterans who are currently is the same situation that I am is that the VA wants you to miss a deadline date or you become so frustrated that you give up on your case.
God bless the UnitedStates of American and the Men and Women of our Armed Forces.
If the VA rated the same unfitting condition at 60% effective the date of separation, you need to file an appeal with the Army Board for the Correction of Military Records. The military is required to rate unfitting conditions per the VASRD. Unfortunately, the PEBs often ignored this requirement and developed low ball rating schemes to keep ratings below 30%, the level required for disability retirement.
When Congress learned about the military low balling tactics, they created the Physical Disability Board of Review (PDBR). Unfortunately the eligibility dates for this board requires that you be separated for disability between 9-11-2001 and 12-31-2009. Being discharged prior to 9-11 means that you are not be eligible for PDBR review. That is too bad as the PDBR strictly applies the VASRD while BCMR's still do not do this consistently, especially for discharges that predate 9-11.
In your appeal, you need to specifically ask the ABCMR if they agree with the VA's 60% rating for your unfititng epilepsy and, if not, why not. The BCMR's are still trying to state that the VA ratings of the unfitting conditions does not matter despite numerous court opinions to the contrary, i.e. Rominger v. U.S.
"Old Squid" was being 100% sarcastic. There's NO WAY this guy could have gone through boot camp, much less boot camp PLUS everything he did if these were pre-existing conditions. As a disabled RN, I know this... but anyone with any amount of common sense and reading ability would know this. The military is no different than SS disability, though... and no different than civilian long term disability companies. They ALL try to not pay benefits or stop benefits even though a person with no medical training at all could tell that a person is disabled. Unfortunately, in both situations, there isn't too much you can do other than try to stay in the fight. I do believe that some of this is due to those that have "gamed the system" in the past. Trust me, SS disability is just as arbitrary in their decisions. If you're under a certain age, you get "rubber stamped" over and over... until you hang in there long enough to get in front of a judge. By then, you've generally lost everything you worked for along the way and you're mentally harmed. I've heard of MANY civilians who actually died while waiting for disability to be approved! So the military isn't the only place you've got to fight for years and years to get what you should have gotten the first time around.
Michael Parker-5882151 et al......
Apology accepted. If you as an attorney couldn't understand biting sarcasm, how the hell could we expect a VA Rating Board to grasp simple truths......???
;)
Yawns
Yawns because we the smart public knew and cautioned about these terrible social consequences right after these BUSH WARS were started and got dragged out they way he did it. This should not be new news to anybody.
The only real winners were Cheney and all his defense contractor buddies who got very rich of such misery.
If you don't want such problems than don't rush into such wars they way they were done.
These will ALWAYS BE BUSH'S WARS - BLAME HIM
Bush lied and they died (in Iraq especially)
hey YAWN:
Does Libya, Egypt, and several parts of AFRICA - where there are boots on the ground - under the Obama Administration - ring a bell?
Seems like Obama has a FEW personal Wars going on - without the knowledge or consent of our US Congress - or the American people.
Has Obamas "wars" cost us 4800 American or allied deaths like Iraq or the 3100 total allied casualties like Afganistan? Hard to equate a president who sent a few advisors to a few countries with a president that spends 4800+ American soldier lives and several hundred thousand others to finish his daddies war. Oh wait, he was looking for WMD. How'd that work out?
I think Afghanistan is Obama's war. He could have gotten us out in 2009 but he chose to get us further in. And it ain't working out so hot either.
Shame on the military! I have first-hand knowledge of an individual who is a retired Marine and due to a permanent injury (non-combat) to her leg she is receiving a significant amount of disability pay and engaged in full time employment making quite a nice living. And yet, these soldiers who are injured due to combat and unable to be deployed have to jump through hoops just to get full disability? What is it exactly you want from these guys? Are you hoping they die? Will that make it easier for you? If you don't want to pay for the consequences of combat related injuries, then don't send our young men and women into combat. Any young person thinking of entering the military these days would have to be crazy given the cavalier manner in which the military responds to permanent disabilities.
So far I have persuaded four nephews and two nieces to not join the military. I am teaching my kids to just say "No" as well. I recruited for Marine Corps for three years, so I know the lingo and the techniques. I also offer my services to any of my friends whose children are thinking about military service. I've kept at least three of them out as well.
Peace and Semper Fidelis...
You may have served, you may have worn the uniform, but you ain't no Marine......
Rob- I don't know why you'd say such a thing!! These "wars" that we've been in (for 21 years to be correct) have (for the most part) only served to kill and maim our young people. There is no 'point' there is no 'winning', and there are HUGE amounts of young people coming home broken mentally and physically. Having an experienced ex-military person admit that joining isn't the best idea for others isn't a bad thing. Using your head to think about what you believe in and what your goals are isn't a bad thing. The 'thinkers' of the world are those that will do the most good as civilians... not coming home in a pine box.
No way ankylosing spondylitis could have been a pre-existing condition. He never could have done his job if that was the case.
If the treatment of the Vietnam vets is any indication of our governments concern for these guys, and women----They are in for a world of disappointment and pain. It doesn't surprise me at all. It is the way we do business. It is called 'What have you done for me lately'. Sad but true.
Buzz:
I do not find the government's treatment of NamVets even close to the disrespect that most of "we the people" did.
That is the greatest shame of the VietNam War....was the disrespect shown to those putting their life on the line and doing what they thought was their patriotic duty.
Henry Kissenger is the only member of the government, to my knowledge, to apologize for his part in an ill-advised war.........and even he was doing what he thought right at the time.
But those who spit on and called our soldiers baby killers should find a way to amend their disrespect.
Every war has treated our veterans as second class citizens...
Yet another depressing story of how Repugnicans repay those who put their lives on the line for America. Strangely enough, Repugnican supporters often seem unaware of Repugnican initiatives to reduce military benefits and cut back programs for veterans. However, a little research goes a long way towards dispelling misconceptions and ignorance.
Get yr story straight, Al =
Obama and the democrats do not want a well-funded Military - and have done NOTHING to assist in processing their medical benefits - except to find ways to cut their medical benefits.
Republicans are against CUTS of any kind - to benefits for our Veterans.
Fina: You are mistaken. Note the comment by the Republican leader below.
Veterans would see an expansion of health care coverage and benefits under President Barack Obama’s 2010 budget blueprint released Thursday that calls for a 10 percent increase in spending to $53 billion.
The president wants to increase spending for veterans by about $5 billion a year over the next five years to meet growing health care needs.
In his speech to Congress this week, Obama said the country must keep its commitment to those who serve in the armed services “and give our veterans the expanded health care and benefits that they have earned.”
Obama’s overall budget proposal prompted Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., to warn that Americans would have to “turn over more of their hard-earned money to the government to pay for unprecedented spending increases.”
The federal budget would boost programs for 5.5 million veterans getting prosthetics and care for vision, spinal cord and women’s health issues
Programs targeting homeless veterans also would see an increase.
To eliminate long delays in health care after veterans are discharged, the budget calls for more funding to help the Department of Veterans Affairs retrieve electronic medical records from the Defense Department.
The budget also expands eligibility for veterans’ health care to over 500,000 veterans by 2013.
while, at the same time, dems attack the overall military budget, which includes funding the health care of those on active duty. do you think that the military departments with shrinking budgets are going to prioritize PTSD or other medical treatments instead of future weapons systems platforms to ensure long term military sustainability? throw smaller amounts at the VA on the back end, while cutting out larger chunks up front.
quit drinking the political kool aid...
You're simply wrong. Money for veterans benefits and care is funded separately from general defense spending. Cuts to the military doesn't affect commitments to veterans. I don't like Kool Aid.
Larry, you should write campaign commercials for Obama. Linking McConnell's comment about Obama's overall budget as directly opposing an increase in VA spending is quite a stretch. You are almost as good at stretching the truth as the President himself.
thanks Rob. what Larry fails to understand is that cuts to the active duty military force affect the care they get while still in the military. increased payments to veterans after the fact, when often the damge is already done, does little to stop the root problem, we should be helping my fellow sevicemembers while they still are servicemembers, as opposed to putting them out before we decide to do something about it.
For those who keep saying Republicans don't want to cut benefits for Veterans, DO YOUR HOMEWORK... Yes they do.. And Obama want's increases.. He has always supported Veterans... But you knuckleheads keep believing the nonsense, instead of finding out for yourselves.. It's in black and white for you to see.. Or are you guys(or gals) too stupid, or too blind with hate to see this.. Because, if it's politics you're trying to talk, you really need to take a look at your people, and realise who's got your back.. And it's NOT the people on the RIGHT..
Did Obama support Veterans when he said we should pay for our own medical care because we knew the risks when we joined? Sure THIS year he says differently, but we ALL know he is in election mode. Election mode= Say ANYTHING to get the vote, Then backpedal later.
"Experts who appeal cases like Kinberg's say his is one of many in which the military may wrongly try to separate an injured service member without benefits. Even if a service member is given a favorable decision, the average wait in each of the services is a year or longer, and most are left trying to navigate in a bureaucratic system that is not always kind to those who will never deploy again."
*
So in other words, Michelle Obama's Election PROPOGANDA in 2008 = MY first order of business - if barack is elected - will be to assist the Military families -
falls short.
After all, Obama did state that members of the US military should pay for their own medical benefits/expenses - since they knew the dangers go to War.
Obama proposed a 10% increase to help veterans. Republican leader Mitch McConnell denounced it as forcing Americans to turn over more of their hard earned money to fund these unprecedented increases. Could you be more wrong?
Both of you children should wake up to the fact that this is more about the military's attitude towrd their own, than the politicians. It is less about funding than it is about appearances. It is the same problem that led to attempts to coverup friendly fire casualties, we can't afford the attitude that we still make mistakes. Likewise collateral damage and civilian deaths, we can't reveal that we're still using dumb bombs.
But today, we are evaluating veterans like defective cell-phones, put them on the test-bed, test fine, no claim, whether the phone actually works or not. Does the evaluation detect that the vet can't concentrate on a task for more than 10 or 15 minutes? Or that an evaluation at 9:00am will be completely different than one done at 2:00pm? Yet, civilian employers would expect similar results, on the job.
But doctors are pressured to "uphold" standards, non-combat command does not appreciate the situation, and able-bodied veterans view much of the process as some sort of scam.
AL Kyda has hit the nail on the head--REPUBLICANS love Veterans, but despised disabled Veterans, and the VA bean counters don't much like veterans either,,the gentleman in the article is PTSD at 100%, WOW most PTSD vets I know are at 10% for PTSD, if they have a higher rating it is because they have several other disabilities, hell my medical desabilities are numerous, plus PTSD and I have a rating of 60% and 30% which in VA lingo adds up to (NO not 90%) 70% so the new math is 6 plus 3 equals 7 no wonder I'm so mixed up...a little of this a little of that and I am completely unusefull ya. some days if I could turn back the clock, I'd get closer to the napalm!~~
Our military - second class citizens - shame on America.
oh give it a rest with your partisan political BS. the republicans arent turning their backs on anyone, the democrats arent saving society, and youre the one with PTSD if you truly beleive that political nonsense.
problem with the disability system is that there are and have been too many people who have tried to free load off the system. i had seen several in my 23 years of service, feigning injuries/disabilities in attempts to get larger disability payouts, avoid deployments, milk out retirements, so on and so forth. no documented medical history of a problem until discharge/VA review time when someone wants paid. PTSD is difficult to prove, and sometimes can be hidden, and it can also be faked. more research needed, and that takes time.
the fraudsters have put the burden on the legitimately injured. this type of system, where people get free social benefits, will always be that way. you can either compasionately, i.e. blindly, throw money at it no questions asked, or you can make some prove their case. too bad we dont do it with the rest of our social welfare systems.
Veterans would see an expansion of health care coverage and benefits under President Barack Obama’s 2010 budget blueprint released Thursday that calls for a 10 percent increase in spending to $53 billion.
The president wants to increase spending for veterans by about $5 billion a year over the next five years to meet growing health care needs.
In his speech to Congress this week, Obama said the country must keep its commitment to those who serve in the armed services “and give our veterans the expanded health care and benefits that they have earned.”
Obama’s overall budget proposal prompted Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., to warn that Americans would have to “turn over more of their hard-earned money to the government to pay for unprecedented spending increases.”
The federal budget would boost programs for 5.5 million veterans getting prosthetics and care for vision, spinal cord and women’s health issues
Programs targeting homeless veterans also would see an increase.
To eliminate long delays in health care after veterans are discharged, the budget calls for more funding to help the Department of Veterans Affairs retrieve electronic medical records from the Defense Department.
The budget also expands eligibility for veterans’ health care to over 500,000 veterans by 2013.
and there have been numerous attempts in the past from dems, barbara boxer in particular, attacking the military compensation systems.
i dont buy into the political kool aid. all these politicians, from both parties, are full of it. one snippet from a president running for re-election doesnt change that...
be nice if you really knew what you were talking about...my whole world went to @!$%#, I couldn't sleep and couldn't work and hated everybody..WOW PTSD
Larry-this is all I have to say:
http://www.inquisitr.com/200985/obama-to-cut-medical-benefits-for-active-retired-military-not-union-workers/
I served in the Army 1970 to 1976. Of all the stuff that my taxes pay for, national defense is first priority and disabled vets is second. Based on what is see in this story, what Col Parker describes, and what I read in other places (ThisAintHell), the VA is broken. The VA exists to serve PO2 Kinberg and thousands more like him and it is failing. How many more stood up, held up their right hand and swore to protect and defend the constitution of the United States, then suffered for it and are being ill-served by the VA? There is no greater contribution to our country and to our citizens that a disabled vet -- none. How can we repay a lost limb or a lost life? Given a choice, none of these men and women would choose to be injured. They did it for you and they did it for me and I will pay any price, bear any burden, to live up to that obligation. What say you? Are injuries incurred in military service just a lost bet or a national debt?
i'm a 23 year vet, served in leadership positions. in my experience, and i'm not saying this guy's case and injuries are legit or not, that's for the medical professionals to determine, but mental disorders (e.g. PTSD) and back problems are two of the most highly claimed injuries for a reason...hard to disprove and hard to prove. and illness commonly deemed hereditary are hard to link to military service. they do get, and rightfully so, extra scrutiny to prevent fraud...
In this case, it was not the VA that is broken. The VA did a fairly good job with their part. What is still broken is DoD's Disability Evalaution System, especially the Navy's version.
BD,
Ankylosing Spondylitis would be impossible to fake. It is diagnosed with a battery of tests to include multiple blood tests, physical manifestations and imagery scans (X-ray, MRI, Bone scan). There is plenty of information on the net about the disease.
One might doubt combat PTSD in one that never saw combat but PO2 Kinberg saw plenty.
but can it be distinguished from comabt related or hereditery caused? and not all comabt vets suffer from PTSD...
I never said all combat vets suffer from PTSD. I meant I would be more apt to believe that a combat vet has combat PTSD when he/she says so.
Whether the Ankylosing Spondylitis, or any other disability, was caused by combat or not is moot. What matters is if the condition manifested (or was aggravated) while on active duty. If so, it is compensable by both the the VA and DoD. This is true even if the condition has a genetic component. Congenital (born with) conditions are not compensable. Conditions for which a person is born with an genetic susceptibility are compensable if the conditions does not manifest until after the member enters active duty (or if the condition is permanently aggravated by service). Below is the standard established by law as reflected in DoD's 14 October 2008 DTM. The Navy has a sorted history of ignoring such standards as they did in PO2 Kinberg's case.
E3.P4.5.2. Presumption for Members on Active Duty for More than 30 days. The presumptions listed in E3.P4.5.2.1., through E3.P4.5.2.3., below apply to members on orders to active duty of more than 30 days, for purposes of determining whether an impairment was incurred or aggravated while a member was entitled to basic pay.
E3.P4.5.2.2. After Entry
E3.P4.5.2.2.1.
Presumption of Sound Condition for members ordered on active duty for more than thirty days. This presumption applies in all cases in which a member, on active duty for more than 30 days is found to have a disability and the disability was not noted at the time of the member’s entrance on active duty. This presumption is overcome if clear and unmistakable evidence demonstrates that the disability existed before the Service member’s entrance on active duty and was not aggravated by military service. Absent such clear and unmistakable evidence, the PEB will conclude that the disability was incurred or aggravated during military service.
E3.P4.5.2.2.2.
Hereditary and/or Genetic Diseases. Any hereditary or genetic disease shall be evaluated to determine whether clear and unmistakable evidence demonstrates that the disability existed before the Service member’s entrance on active
duty and was not aggravated by military service. However, even if the conclusion is that the disability was incurred prior to entry on active duty, any aggravation of that disease, incurred while the member is entitled to basic pay, beyond that determined to be due to natural progression shall be determined to be service aggravated. To overcome the presumption of sound condition, factual evidence based upon well-established medical principles as distinguished from personal medical opinion alone must be presented to rebut the presumption. The quality of evidence is usually more important than quantity. All relevant evidence must be weighed in relation to all known facts and circumstances relating to the condition. Findings will be made on the basis of objective evidence in the record as distinguished from personal opinion, speculation, or conjecture. When the evidence is not clear concerning whether the condition existed prior to service or if the evidence is equivocal, the presumption will not be deemed to have been rebutted and the member's condition will be found to have been incurred in or aggravated by military service.
What saddens me is that we squabble over taking care of Veterans and how much that costs, etc., but (don't get me wrong I am all for charity) whenever there is a country in need we through MILLIONS without even a question.
Somehow I have to ask myself, why don't we take care of our military people before we go "rebuild the world." Yes, I feel sorry for everyone who has a national disaster and yes, I know we should help but, please, when do we help our VETS????? When do they get what they deserve? The Vets are only asking for the care that they need because they were doing what we asked them to do!
bd540164-wrong-there isn't any Veteran that served in a combat arena that does'nt have some level of PTSD. William Waller wrote-I repeat with close accuracy-
"You train a man to be a soldier,change his manner of dress, diet, and behavior, including his sex drive. there by he is unfit for civilian life".
sorry searched for the direct quote couldn't find. use to have it imprinted in forehead.
Illegal aliens don't kill people as much as members of the military.
Hey SETH, you need to check yr facts........illegal aliens cross the US Border - without any background checks.
Illegal Aliens spared from deportation - have committed more heinous crimes, rapes and murders - in The USA.
Seems to me that our soldiers are disposable pawns serving 3rd party interests.
What about the on-going investigation in SEATTLE - at a US Army Hospital - wherein a WHISTLEBLOWER reported - "doctors" are following instructions from the White House - to downgrade PTSD cases - to a lesser diagnosis - so that the Veteran's benefits for PTSD can be cut.
Obama’s overall budget proposal to increase VA funding 10% prompted Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., to warn that Americans would have to “turn over more of their hard-earned money to the government to pay for unprecedented spending increases.”
yes Larry, we've got your cherry picked sound bite. is that all you've got to prove that the republicans are evil and hate us veterans?
Do you really need more?
Was it this or was it something else? Hard to kind of nit-pick and say it's this when it's an entire budget proposal... So what else was increased and what else was decreased? Something has to be taken away to allow for the increase or do you think 10% budget increases can happen without a rise in revenue? I could say Obama hates the Military for proposing a 50% decrease in their budget and loves welfare for proposing significant increases but that wouldn't be true just like your statement above.
Obama’s overall budget proposal prompted Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., to warn that Americans would have to “turn over more of their hard-earned money to the government to pay for unprecedented spending increases.”
Obama’s overall budget proposal to increase VA funding 10% prompted Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., to warn that Americans would have to “turn over more of their hard-earned money to the government to pay for unprecedented spending increases.”
Both of the above are from your posts Larry. Are you just making things up now?
Thats the Navy for ya F#*K ya up and throw you out like yesterdays trash.
The Army is pretty much the same, and I would assume that the other military branches would fall in line with these as well.
I was badly injured by a roadside blast in Iraq all the way back in 2009. I was almost killed, and left with my leg and back hurting every single day. I STILL have not finished my medical retirement, and after two appeals I am officially giving up on getting what I deserve. I always thought that I did my part, and that my government and military would support me after what I went through; but that wasn't the case. For the record, they don't plan on me finishing my medical retirement until the end of next year... I wish it had only taken only a little over 400 days. So in the end the process will have taken almost 4 years from when I was injured, and in the end I might get 20% disability. Let's just hope they cover all of my health care cost related to my combat injures, I'm at 27 surgeries and counting.
who is telling you it wont be until the end of next year? the VA? hell, they dont give timelines, mainly because they arent efficient enough to do it...
Go to pebforum.com and see if you can get some assisstance.
kknoop, please don't give up. I know it is hard, but please try to hang in there. It took me years to get the Agent Orange benefits my adopted dad deserved from Vietnam but we finally got them. It took me even longer to get mine. I think progress has been made. I don't think you will have to fight as long as we did.
The VA counts on Vets giving up. I got what they even said at the time was a leukemia caused by direct exposure to Agent Orange and Blue (still took years to get benefits). The point is I got the benefits.
I agree with Michael Parker. Try to get assistance. Here we have VA reps (not from the VA). Try to find out if you can get one. I know it is so hard and frustrating. The Vet Center is helpful too. Not really part of the VA. Much better people, Vets who care (at least around here).
It shouldn't be so hard for people who served to get what they rightfully deserve.
walk into you state reps office and tell them to get off and advocate-u should be drawing full benefits untll you are recovered fully
I don't believe anything Obama says. The king of flip flop will say anything to remain dictator in chief.
This is a crying shame.
On one hand you have service members who want to re-enlist and re-deploy.
On the other you have bleeding heart liberals that want them all "home".
Some of you do not understand that since 1973 ALL of us volunteered and a lot wanted careers.
NOW Obama gets brownie votes by bringing SOME home (and making it look like a rush), and the "system"
is systematically deniing them retirement OR re-enlistment.
It only gets worse guys and gals.
If you DO come home, do NOT expect re-enlistment.
Obama and liberals are NOT the friends of the military some think.
speaking from real experience, you are mistaken, The vet screwers are the left overs from the Republicans who want to dismantle the VA, and use every opportunity to decrease funding and to keep the military pay schedule at a minimum and a little research will keep you informed. me bucko, before Bush took office I could schedule an appointment for an eye exam within two months, a few months after Mr Bush gained the oval office I called for an eye exam...twas in August and was told I could be examined in November, foolish me, I said thats not bad..the scheduler said oh not this year, next year, so I had to wait 14 months for and eye exam. because the Sainted Republicans had already screwed up VA funding...
This topic makes my blood boil. Men and women serve in the military with the idea of defending our great nation. They get sent off to unnecessary wars by misguided leaders, perform their duties in an exemplary manner, get injured, then finally tossed aside by the same leaders who sent them to the unnecessary wars.
I retired from the Marine Corps more than three years ago. I went to Iraq twice. I even spent three years recruiting young people to join the Marines. There is no way I will ever let my children or grandchildren join any branch of the military after seeing what we do with our wounded veterans. We should be ashamed by this disgraceful situation.
Peace and Semper Fidelis...
JD: from a retired corpsman who spent his best years in the Navy with 1stMarDiv and IMEF.
Thank you for your service. I truely miss the feeling of trusting others with my life. Sounds corny, but I miss it.