I was thinking, too bad that Jeffrey Johnson was the perp. He should teach the cops how to shoot: "He (Ercolino) was shot five times in the head and face", and no other bystanders hit.

There was an earlier article saying that bystanders don't often do well in court, but they should argue that the training and procedures taught are reckless, rather than the cops did wrong as far as they were taught. Cops don't need to shoot 10-20 times when in a crowd. That is absurd, and reckless.

There are two things at work here.

First, Johnson was much closer to his targets than the cops were to him. It's easy to be very accurate when your target is only three feet away.

Second, when my father was in the FBI, he told me about the police and guns. In the FBI (at least of that era), every agent went to the target range once a month (called "Firearms Day"); they spent all day shooting, with every weapon in the FBI arsenal (which resembled the U.S. Army's a lot more than any municiple police force). Thousands of rounds, more than a dozen different weapons, every month. On the other hand, most police officers went to the range once a YEAR, and only shot a few dozen rounds. Most departments didn't want their officers to be "gun-happy." Gun nuts tend to spend huge amounts of time in shooting practice, because their guns make them feel SOOOOO macho.

jockmama, and your such a sissy.

jockmama-1543705..(#1.2).."First, Johnson was much closer to his targets than the cops were to him. It's easy to be very accurate when your target is only three feet away."

Did ya watch the video ??...The 2 cops were FIVE feet away when he turned to face them and drew his gun from his waistband....

NEW YORK -- The man who shot and killed a former co-worker before being killed by police near the Empire State Building was being booted out of his apartment, a law enforcement official says.

Yep thats it. Being laid off a yr ago, with more than likely never being able to find another comparable job, didnt push him over. It was being forced to move out for a few weeks for upgrades that did it..

As I said In a previous post ..... "Suicide By Police ..... " He knew what was going to happen ...

Clearly, this guy was bitter. Laid off at the unattractive age of 58 in this economy and in NYC where basic expenses can easily come to $4-5,000 a month, it looks like he had come to the end of the road. I wonder how he was supporting himself since he was laid off. No way unemployment benefits can pay your rent in NYC. I find it amusing that Congress wants to push up the retirement age to 68. If you're 50 or over, you are increasingly unhire-able.

As for the police shooting, the video shows the guy going down seconds after he was shot. The man was close enough to shake hands with--how can you effin" miss? If the police aren't trained enough to use their guns, then they shouldn't be using guns. All this stuff about the trigger pull and lack of practice is BS. Of course, I'd be nervous if I had to shoot someone standing next to me, but I'm not an allegedly trained law enforcement professional.

And, yes, the man knew the consequences. He was obviously ready to go.

There was an earlier article saying that bystanders don't often do well in court, but they should argue that the training and procedures taught are reckless, rather than the cops did wrong as far as they were taught.

Innocent bystanders do very well in court, if they get there. Most claims are settled out of court, and the municipality's insurance carrier ends up taking a bath. Individual officers are sometimes sued, but more often than not it is the city, county, or state that is sued. Usually, 'failure to train' is the negligence claim that is pursued. As a result...

On the other hand, most police officers went to the range once a YEAR, and only shot a few dozen rounds.

...doesn't happen anymore. This used to be quite true, but it's not because departments didn't want their officers to be trigger happy, it's because they couldn't afford the costs associated with the training. A good part of it is paying the officers for the training. They're not on the streets doing the job they're hired to do, and most often, they're on overtime when they're at the range training. The annual qualification they used to do served a dual purpose. It was a skills test, for one, but for two, it's how they used up the one box of cartridges they'd been issued the previous year. Most people do not realize just how costly handgun ammunition is, or how much it used to cost. It actually got quite reasonable for a spell through the 1990's (in most cases). In the mid-80's, a box of 9mm cartridges ran about $25. Prices have crept up, but still a standard box of 50 cartridges will be under $20 in 2012 bucks. Thanks to liability, most municipalities are scraping together the money to pay officers for range training and to supply them with enough ammunition to do so. How much actual shooting an officer does depends on how good a shot they are. If you can qualify right away, you go home. The majority of officers I've known needed remedial time on the range to get their scores up to what was considered to be the minimum acceptable level, so they got quite a bit more time on the range until they could score 90% or better. A lot of federal money is now buying ammunition for local police officers to practice with. In years past, it was the state police who were the real 'Rambo's' out there as the state had a broader tax base than most cities and counties did and could afford more ammunition for troopers, investigators, rangers, and whatever else they may have had.

Now about distance between parties and accuracy:

Part of why a lot of rounds get fired is because your officers are scared out of their wits when someone is pointing a gun at them, especially if that suspect has already been firing it and has demonstrated that he's more than willing to pull the trigger. It's kind of like how people react when they discover a spider crawling on them...they furiously swat and swipe at it in a very frenzied manner until they see that it's gone, and then some. No, they're usually not aware of how carried away they're getting. Neither are the cops. They see that the guy is still standing there with the gun, not aware if or how many times he may have been hit, until he drops the gun or drops, period! Also, in firing as many panicked shots as fast as they possibly can, a lot of double-taps happen, many often inadvertent while the gun is recoiling, so those shots fly wild. Trying to duck for cover while shooting at an assailant is as instinctive to some people as flinching in anticipation of the muzzle blast is, and it isn't exactly conducive to good shot placement, either.

There was an earlier article saying that bystanders don't often do well in court, but they should argue that the training and procedures taught are reckless, rather than the cops did wrong as far as they were taught.

I think that any bystanders caught in police crossfire should receive some sort of compensation.

I'm going to let you all in a little known secret......Most people, I don't care how much they've been trained, don't shoot very straight in very stressful situations, unless they find themselves shooting in very stressful situations on a regular basis.

Also...and the main reason he shot the @!$%# that he did..is cause this jerk intimidated and pushed him around for years. The so called 'victim' got EXACTLY what he had coming.

And you know this how?

The truth of the matter is people are tired of being bullied in the workplace. Some folks brown nose all day long, snitch on co workers and continually create conflict creating a hostile work environment. Workers are no longer appreciated, especially in this economy. Bosses and supervisors treat their workers like crap on their shoes. No raises, or bonuses, double or triple the workload and they want you to smile while they put the screws to you! Lying on employees is now commonplace and to top it off they dare you to quit! Violence in the workplace is WRONG! One thing some of these bosses fail to realize..Not everyone goes quietly! You can't bully everyone without someone getting pissed! A couple of folks found that out the hard way!

If you watch the video of the shooting, you can see the cops cringing and not taking a defensive shooting stance that all law enforcement is taught. they were not firing from a stable position, resulting in stray shots...pathetic.

the dead shooter may be losing his home? but it looks like the NYPD &NYC WILL BE LOSING THEIR SHIRTS WHEN THE LAWSUITS COME IN FROM THE VICTIMS

Teaparty Low IQ: How is this the Republican's or Teaparty's fault? It could be due to Wall St. or bankers, but do you have to bring politics into this?

Sorry, I go with the cops.. try having 3 seconds to decide what to do when someone with a gun is pointing at you.. all these "experts" here probably never fired one, let alone were fired at..

I agree Prof. The cops took him out. People nearby were hit with fragments of of the wall material and a few were injured by bullets. It doesn't say how close these people were to the shooter, but it seems pretty close to me. At least only one innocent person was killed.

He was losing his apartment huh? Well, now he has a home forever. 6ft under

try having 3 seconds to decide what to do when someone with a gun is pointing at you

Three seconds? THREE SECONDS? What a luxury that would be! 3/10ths of a second is far closer to the actual amount of time reality allots for the 'shoot/no shoot' decision...

...and depending on how it works out in the end, it's a decision that may very well haunt the person making it for the next 3 decades or however much longer they live afterwards.

It's serious business, it's dirty business, and no one I know who is in a position to have to possibly make that decision ever wants to have to do it.

On the matter of the fbi taking more target practice than police. The FBI is federally funded and have access to ammunition to do that because they are federally funded and have to be prepared for more large scale incidents than local police for the most part and they handle many types of weapons. Locals police departments suffer now days from budget cuts etc. Most are worried they will be the next person cut from the force. In a bad situation like this when you do not know if this guy is a terorist or what, while this may be crass, sometimes maybe this is the best you can accept from this type of situation. Since they have tape I am sure there will be a revue of the incident,

This is why it is important that the next Pres. stops the BS and goes to work and creates jobs. I am so tired of the economy being in the crapper and crime rates escalating. If Obama has to climb the barrier and negotiate with the Rep.'s & bus. so be it. If Romney is elected this should be his number 1 priority. I can not understand the constant sniping about birthers,shoving Grandma over the cliff, and countlesss other dribble over nothing and the only ones suffering are the American people.

Notice how the focus is one the circumstances of the Freud between two men and away from the far more serious issue of police incompetence that result in 9 bystanders being wounded. Where's the outrage in the media? Oh that's right, it's NYC, enough said.

More Blood on the GOP, Wall St ,Teaparty , Bankers Hands. A pox on all of them in Jesus name Amen

Wow, and people say the Right are inflammatory. Somehow I suspect Christ isn't going to be very pleased with you throwing a curse in His name.

Love all the comments about how the police screwed up. When you know what your talking about as opposed to watching TV then spout off. The Officers involved fire 9 and 6 shots respectively. Each weapon had 15 round magazines. Under an incredibly stressful situation they did remarkably well hitting a moving target without emptying their weapons. NYPD officers go to the range multiple times a year. Shooting at the paper man is a whole lot different from shooting at the person aiming a gun at you, even doing a simulator does not prepare you for the real thing, although it does help.

2 surgeons are here to work on your heart, surgeon 1 practices everyday , surgeon 2 does it once every year.

who whould you trust to save your life ????

me, my children, and my wife do not wear body armour, don't risk there lives and mine. Aim then fire , wait then fire again... and use the right kind of ammo

Now if Obama had done something about the economy instead of cramming HIS agenda down America's throats....2 men might be alive tonight! The man had nothing to live for and no HOPE for the future!

Expect to see more of these incidents. Americans are getting tired of the bickering going on in Washington D.C. and our "elite" elected Congressional Representatives not fixing problems but creating more and more.

The "stress" of not having a job and cannot find a job, higher costs for goods and services, higher energy prices, missing another mortgage payment, using the last of the unemployment benefits, being hit with higher taxes next year, being mandated to purchase health insurance...etc.....one would expect folks to implode.

Heck, our "elite" elected representatives don't have the guts to "dip" into Mr. Obama's Cabinet's budgets to get the money to fix the Captial dome. Wait a dad gum minute.....Mr. Obama has been in office for nearly 4 years and has yet to have a Congressional approved NATIONAL BUDGET.

Gneisenau.....do some research. Mr. Obama directed the DOJ to NOT PROSECUTE the Wall Street "Fat Cats" for their illegal handling of mortgage securities.....but yet.....Mr. Obama sure goes to them to get more campaign funds. The DOJ now has "Lawyers for Sale".

Re-direct my last comment to: Teaparty Low IQ (the Liberal in disgust, sounds a lot like FlyeistytheBlonde)

Sorry..Gneisenau...

God bless the NRA and the State of Florida for its laughable gun laws! Long Island RR shooter Colin Ferguson also bought his hi-cap 9mm pistol in that State. The address he gave there was a motel. No prob.

If you're looking for the reason why even those without criminal history should not possess handguns, this tragic incident serves well.

Of course the twisted logic of the NRA would propose that the victim Ercolino should also have been carrying a pistol. Then the two of them could turn midtown Manhattan in 2012 to 1870's Dodge City and have a fast draw contest on 34th Street.

Well, now he's got a new home, rent free...enjoy.

The problem with the NYPD is a lack of training, but their pistols are designed to MISS. I am a gunsmith and the trigger pull on a NYPD pistol is about 10 lbs. My custom guns are about 3 lbs. In order to hit with a 10 lb trigger, a right handed shooter needs to start their aim about 2 ft left of the target at 10 yards, and by the time the trigger breaks, the shooter may be able to hit a 2 ft, wide target somewhere. At 30 feet (10 yd) I can put 10 shots in a 8" circle in less than 10 seconds with a 3 lb trigger. The reason that the NYPD has a 10 lb trigger is to keep them from shooting themselves.

Damn that dude was serious. Other nine please sue the fuzz.

Guys, let's let the investigators do their jobs before we jump to any conclusions. Perhaps these officers were inept, but perhaps they also reacted as best as could be expected under the situation. I'm just saying we shouldn't be so judgmental, these officers may have done better than 99% of people would have in their situations, we don't really know. They are not John McLane - they are real cops, going about their daily routine, and then suddenly thrust into a situation. Again, maybe they reacted poorly, but maybe they did exceptionally in the situation, we'll have to wait and see what the investigation finds.

The only thing we really do know - they are also victims in this situation. They were just going about their day, and the criminal has altered the lives of these two officers as well. They didn't create this situation, the criminal did.

Cowboys

Navy Seals are some of the most highly trained and conditioned people on earth. This is done so they will not experience what is known as "the fog of war". Despite all the training and conditioning, Seals still report experiencing the fog of war. Why would a regular street cop be expected to react better than a Navy Seal.

Usta, a 3 lbs pull is for a target pistol. It is inappropriate for a police arm.

There is no reason a handgun with a ten pound pull cannot be fired accurately. It is just a question of grip. The Glock is designed to fire double action every shot, copying the revolvers from which the NYPD transitioned around fifteen years ago.

Unfortunately, fire discipline does not seem to have been well learned by the majority of New York City Police. But then NYPD is not a gun culture like the FBI. Few NYPD officers actually enjoy going to the range. It is an irksome chore for most to accomplish their annual qualification.

Statistically, the average New York Police officer beginning his career can expect to never fire or even draw his handgun in earnest.

Two most dangereous things in New York are it's mayor and the untrained cops.

@Ben fox --- The third was dangerous factor in NYC is its sick and entitled residents.

Cops are so obsessed in emptying their clips!

The guy received 13 bullets, plus 3 in the head. Sure there were 9 injured bystanders - all getting in the way of the cops' adrenaline rush. But, still, this is an outrage, why didn't the cops reloaded with more clips? ... Bloomberg, you've got the money for more clips!

Ben Fox

The fourth most dangerous thing are uniformed people who know nothing about policing except for what they see on TV & Movies

Cops need to have a designated shooter, rather then every cop fire as many rounds as possible. Most shoot like it was the first time they ever had to do it, so they shoot as if it may be a very long time before they will be able to do it again. And what's up with head shots? Aren't you suppose to target the chest area? No wonder so many people got hit. Only a few shots hit the head, the rest zinged past him and hit human backstops. There was no crossfire, only shots with no regard as to what was beyond their target. I wonder how many missed shots there were to shoot the gun out of this guys hand, Wyatt Earp style?

The most dangerous thing is New York is the city denying citizens their right to self defense.

Perhaps Mr. Johnson was just frustrated that he couldn't get a large soda and took it out on poor Mr. Ercolino?

Hey, "grape", next time save the highballs till after you read the article.

It was the initial victim Ercolino who was shot in the head, by Johnson, not Johnson by the NYPD.

However, your idea of a "designated shooter" has some merit. So, would the non-designated police officers carry no gun--British style?

What's Ted Nugent got to do with this?

Ted promotes legal fireamrs ownership, training, and personal responsibility in the carry and use of firearms.

It was the anti-gun NYPD that shot NINE bystanders.

Yeah, and good ol' Ted veers dangerously close to urging the use of guns against the President, and probably anyone else he doesn't like such as fish and game wardens. Ted's a standup guy!

Don't liberal, feelings driven, hypocrites usually revert to blaming conservative obstruction for not being able to eliminate more personal freedom in America??

When a person is feelings driven, the one "feeling" that transcends all others is fear.

Fu moron.if you wait for the slime ball cops then if the bad guy does not shoot you the cops will.

We should be using the guns on Congress

Hope you enjoy your visit from the FBI ATF AND SS people or all of them at once.

Oooof!

Herald9--okay, I give up. When liberals support science, they are called heartless and amoral. When they are concerned about the lives of other humans, they are called "feelings driven."

Which is it, bubba? Or, is your use of the term "hypocrite" something of an act of projection?

While it is true that there are many hypocritical liberals--the New York Liberal Elite type or the Ivory Tower Northeast Liberal type come to mind--not all liberals are hypocritical. On average, they are better educated, have higher IQs, and make more money than the average conservative.

There is a reason that Mississippi and most other "red" states are among the most impoverished; there is a reason why Massachusetts and most other "blue" states are among the wealthiest. There are exceptions (California is both "red"--see Prop 8 and the banning of Affirmative Action--and "blue"), but this pattern holds essentially true.

It is largely conservatives who refuse to believe in climate change and evolution. They are the most anti-intellectual and uneducated and suspicious of science. (Of course, it is liberal European Americans who persist in claiming that they aren't racist--though they are among the most racist in the US--but I digress.) While it is very likely that the conservative elite in no way reflect this hostility to science and abysmal lack of knowledge, they are not above exploiting the fact that the conservative base is very, very easy to bamboozle due to their lack of critical thinking skills.

Anyway--while I'm not going to make this into a "conservatives are stupid" claim, my main point here is that wielding a brush as broad as yours is inevitably going to paint a situation badly. A use of finer thinking skills and more targeted language is a lot more likely to result in an accurate statement. Have a great day.

Well, if you don't want to come, we don't want you! Your comment is a sign of your ignorance. You could get killed crossing the street more often than you will by a handgun. Please, where ever you are, go back and complete your education. Sounds as if you need it.

Glad you like life in the rat race ghetto.

New York is a GREAT place to visit !! I wouldn't mind going back but won't get to go atop the Twin Towers of couse. Wouldn't mind tossing a pig on the front door of the muslim mosque while I'm there.... Just trying to get along !!

may86, ... yah, we all heard about the quality of the DRIVERS there in NYC. <> It's kind of a standing joke worldwide. >>> (the simple fact that a vehicle, >>> izz ALMOST, >>> as likely to KILL you, ... as Gangland Sororities, Police, or STRAY BULLETS) ! ... I also hear it's even worse than OBees Chicago Gangland, by quite a ways, but not quite up to par w/Mexico's ONE murder every half hour, which we all can thank Mr E Huldra & Co. AKA: our BATFE, or just simply as OUR Fast n' FURIOUS SWAT team - - - USA!

Chicago (Obama territory) beats em all for killings.

Parachute these guys into Mexico where targets are plenty but morals are empty.

Menoseeno

yeah, your probably right big guy, obama territory means obama fault! keep that kinda of mindset out there and we are bound to pull some obama supporters over to romney. good job man!

I think you're lying!

Chicago (Obama territory) beats em all for killings.

Actually, suburban murders far outweigh chicago any day. Open up the paper and count suburban thug murderers and rapists...

NY is actually a wonderful place to visit. I would never live there but then again i would never live at a lot of places. My chances of getting shot at by untrained cops or perpetrators are open EVERYWHERE. This time it just happened to be at the Empire State Building. People need to stop being so scary and just live their lives.

New York is a GREAT place to visit !! I wouldn't mind going back but won't get to go atop the Twin Towers of couse. Wouldn't mind tossing a pig on the front door of the muslim mosque while I'm there.... Just trying to get along !!

Be sure to come on garbage collection day...

Fric, don't blame New York--a very safe city, statistically. It was lawless, piratical Florida that sold the gun.

If 'most anyone can become a New York City police officer, Florida will let just about anybody buy a handgun.

The headline is a typical MSNBC healine: shooter loses apartment. MANY paragraphs later it reveals that he was moving out temporarily for renovations. NBC...so poor "journalism"

Thats not what it said he was actually being evicted antd the apartment was being upgraded. He had to be out in two weeks.

A law enforcement official told NBC New York on Sunday that Johnson was subletting the Upper East Side apartment where he lived. The owner wanted to do renovations and asked Johnson to move out. Johnson had a couple of weeks left until he had to go. That added pressure may have helped put him over the edge, the source said.

So he was subletting and the owner asked him to move.

Didn't he have a lease? Either he was month-to-month or the lease was up and the owner wouldn't renew.

1) There's no anti-gun lobby here. There's people who lobby for some standard being implemented to be able to purchase a gun, like you have to show some proficiency at driving in order to obtain a drivers license. And banning assault weapons, which if you people can argue about the access to these weapons in other countries by terrorist, I really fail to see how your argument changes here at home. Especially since Bush started classifying so many crimes as forms of domestic terrorism.

2) What exactly is the media going to spin? Reality? The reality that's a common part of national news? Do you really have to spin it? You apparently have to spin news stories in order to stave off any reasonable criticism of the laxness of so many gun laws across America.

The reality also is that he was not being evicted for not paying rent as NBC wants you to think from the headline. The apartment was being RENOVATED!

I'm for anything that can keep guns away from criminals, gangs and psychos but I don't know what will work. Whenever someone brings up driver licenses and says there should be a similar process to owning a gun, I can't help thinking about the corruption in obtaining driver licenses. Like any other law you'll have 99% of the people following the law and the others ignoring it. Ex-Gov. Thompson of Illinois is still in jail because of the selling of driver licenses to people who couldn't qualify for one legally and some of the money going to his campaign fund. Illegal immigrants purchase driver licenses and social security cards too. The same thing would be happening with gun licenses.

Law enforcement can go after gangs and criminals to take weapons away from them but it takes aggressive measures and some bending of the laws. That would cut the number of shootings dramatically but the liberals are more concerned with the constitutional rights of criminals than doing something that would work in getting guns out of the hands of the people responsible for close to 95% of all gun related homicides. The liberals would rather see gun laws passed that would affect the law abiding gun owners and the criminals would still ignore the laws.

And yes, the media has been putting the spin on any shootings that have happened since the theater shooting in Colorado. The way they reported this shooting in NY made it sound like a random mass shooting when it was the murder of one man and a bunch of bystanders being shot by the inept policemen. The national media reported on the man being shot by a 7 year old even though the guy was negligent in letting the kid get a hold of his gun and the gun went off when he was trying to take it away from him. The media made it sound like there's a 7 year old shooter out there. The man who was shot is not seriously injured. Why was that national news?

Wrong ex gov. Roodles

Roodles, reread your second paragraph and tell me how the right are such constitutionalists. Why do they talk about the laws we have when, like you, they don't won't to follow them. They want to bend them, change them, do anything to subject some segment of Americas citizens to a different standard. This is what you guys accuse democrats/liberals of doing, but if you read yours and other right-winger statements they practically preach the idea of an entitled wealthy class, and a different class that NEEDS to have their rights suppressed. Going back to the Clinton era tax rate is class warfare, but bending laws to subject citizens of a certain race or locale to a different standard isn't. And ya'll try to call peoples reactions to your race based views and political goals reverse-racism!? That's the human condition. None of us, regardless of skin color or background, like to be held to a different standard than our neighbors. Your solution is one of the main reason for the problem's existence.

CoCo--it would be nice if you understood something about renting in New York. If a person is evicted so that the landlord can "renovate," it is because the landlord doesn't like the low rate which s/he let or sublet an apartment at and wants to get more money (or wants to do an end-run around the laws which make eviction difficult). Whether one turns over one's keys due to an eviction or due to "renovations," one has lost the apartment just the same and is not going to get it back.

Losing an apartment one can afford in New York is essentially a one-way ticket to homelessness. Now, if people in New York would figure out that we have a very large country, and that when they lose their jobs and can't afford their rent, that they should take their cash (usually quite a large stockpile) and move someplace where the living is cheap (a year's rent in NYC will buy a house in small town Oklahoma or Texas or Mississippi) and try to start a business . . . well, they and we all would be better off. This gentleman was a designer--he could have started a small Internet business, sold online at a very low cost, and perhaps eventually have worked his way back to "civilization." Or, he might have taken up organic farming or otherwise learned to feed himself on a small farm in the rural US.

Unfortunately, people in big cities tend to stay there even when there is no work, no likelihood of ever getting work, and they will wind up homeless. Preferring to be homeless in NYC rather than housed and employed or at least a landowner who can provide for his/her own subsistence in the rural US never made much sense to me. But, there it is.

Still, it would be nice if people both outside NYC and inside NYC made slightly more effort to understand the distinctions between the two places and realize that they are both in the US.

Roodles, the parallel with driver's licenses is obviously not valid. Millions, tens of millions of driver's licenses are issued by the States though these are much more tightly controlled since 9/11 and the REAL ID Act. A license to buy and carry a concealed weapon would and should be much, much rarer. One or two corrupt civil servants could do a lot less damage there.

The tired "only criminals will have guns" argument also is transparent. Under truly effective, national gun control only a few, well connected career criminals would be able to get their hands on a pistol, as is the case now in most European countries and Japan and is the case here with full automatic weapons.

There would be no more mass shootings, no more average-appearing citizens who go psycho one day, decide they don't want to live but need to take a few others with them.

Bean, that is absolute rubbish.

The reason people migrate from countryside to city is because there is a much better chance of finding salaried employment in the city. It may be waiting tables or clerking in a store or driving a limo but there will be something, as compared to the hopelessness of rural life at a time when agriculture is agribusiness and the family farm is all but dead.

People do move out of the city to run a bed & breakfast or start a winery but that takes capital and this Johnson had only one suit.

The obstacle people in the city face when they become one of the nouveau poor is that they may be reluctant to accept "menial" work and they are ignorant of how to work the system to obtain benefits that the poorer classes know all about collecting.

Heated place to stay? Seems like he bought himself a one way ticket on the fast train out of it.

Hell, ok!

When you sue the city... in reality you are suing the other Citizens of the City. Governments themselves don't have any money; it's the Citizens that have the money. So, anytime people expect ''the Government'' to give them some money, they are really expecting that their neighbors will give them that money. The money from that Lawsuit will (or course) come from the taxpayers.

ToddC--ummmm, so just because cities and governments are of the people, by the people, and for the people . . . we should all just roll over when the cops shoot people randomly, when the cops beat on a door in the middle of the night without identifying themselves and then shoot the homeowner when he opens the door with a gun in his hand, or when the cops randomly fire during a raid at a wrong address and kill a sleeping gradeschooler?

We have the ability to sue because, it is to be hoped, this will upset the taxpayers whose money is being wasted, motivate them to throw out the people responsible for the stupidity, and hire people who will prevent things like that from happening again.

Still, if this is your attitude, I do hope that it will be people with your attitude who experience an episode like this, because that will save me (the taxpayer) a whole lot of money and effort.

Hi Beanathome - I'm not saying that people shouldn't sue when warranted, and I certainly do understand that in many cases, lawsuits are the only way to change the behavior of a large corporation or government.

That doesn't change the fact that the City itself has no money that isn't the money of it's Citizens. Any judgement in the lawsuits won't come from some magical City money tree - it'll come from the other taxpayers.

So, I don't have an ''attitude'' about this, and I'm certainly not saying that people should just roll-over when Governments act dangerously or irresponsibly. I was just stating the often forgotten fact that Government money is OUR money. When people delight in ''THEY are going to pay!!'', they may have forgotten who the 'THEY' really is.

Sounds like t'wud never of happened IFFFFFF he had NOT been a damned ole BULLY!!!

@Babs --- The fuggin shooter dipstick!

This is a true tragedy, Complaints were filed and ignored, He lost his Job and then His home. The Justice system failed him.

Are you kidding?!? We are supposed to feel sorry for this friggin murderer? If everyone that had ever been bullied or fired went around shooting people we'd have gone the way of the dinosaurs long ago. So give me a friggin break!

NC Vet: at least we agree on something.

And a bankrupt State.

And you think NY won't be bankrupt soon??

yes they will , he probly is one of verymany , who are losing their homes apartments an jobs , remmember most all the stuff we get comes from the new york docks , so the stuff we dont buy means that more people in ny laid off , thats way its a mess there , let them have rats an swis cheese land of new york with all the subways an fake dreams an very high rent over price things oh yes the new york stock market when it hits bottom they will need a bail out tell them nono nono .

California is on a coast line and many of the overseas imports come through their docks too. You people really have a small-minded limited view of the world. Even just the small part we occupy.

it goes far back that that regan bush the second bush try to continue the mess he only made it worse , now who do we choose ??????? its all the same the poor man pays an pays rep or dem , we will be in the same sinking boat , but this time trump said it off the cliff an hit the rocks

The blame thing is really getting old.......................

Pepster--it is called "cause and effect." If one understands the cause, one might be able to prevent the effect (if it is a bad one). In this case, doing away with the social safetynet is causing people to just not care much any more. This fellow probably saw himself doomed to homelessness, hunger, and an early death. He just decided to hurry the whole matter up.

People with very few, and bad, options often choose a really bad one, because they don't honestly care which of the evils they wind up with. And, they often choose the one which will spread the misery around to those they blame for their lot.

It is best to give people at least the security that they will not starve and wind up out in the streets. Heck, in the US today, we don't even have workhouses. It is worse than Dickens. Go have a look sometime.

I work in HUD housing beanathome.............. You really need to take a look sometime. And what does that have to do with blaming Bush? I didn't read anything about this being politically motivated, the guy probably isn't even registered. You do realize that there are people out there that could really care less about politics, don't you?

He pushed the man down and was standing over him, when he shot. Is that your idea of a good marksman ?

It is crazy innocent bystanders shot wonder if a so called civilian did the same thing

They were all going for head shots, that's why so many people got hit. Only three out of 16 shots hit the head, the rest were missed shots that hit innocent bystanders behind the subject. A couple other shots to the arm of the subject, which were probably attempts to shoot the gun out of his hand like Roy Rogers does on TV. Cops are supposed to aim for the largest parts of the body, not try for the 10-ring. Every bystander needs to be paid. Well.

Being that we got in this economic mess under Bush, and due to the fact that republicans have opposed (as they said they would to make Obama a one term president) everything Obama has tried to do economic-wise, you can't say anything about Obama's economic policies being the blame. We're still living under the Bush economic policies, not Obama's.

By that logic it is Herbert Hoover's fault. This Obama's nightmare economy. He himself said that he should be a one term President if he couldn't fix things in 4 years. I intend to hold him to that promise!

BrainCandy? Sounds a little starved to me. Like Blamo stated, this goes way way back, more like around 1913. Fiat banking systems are doomed from the start, and the economy goes right along with it. You can't continue to have perpetual debt, and not have the money supply be over printed. Eventually, with an over abundance of money, and nothing to back it's value, like we now have, both systems falls apart.

Republicans change the argument back and forth. First it's Obama hasn't done anything, then it's that he's done the wrong thing. Well, which is it? His actions or inaction? Can you really, honestly , try to put blame on someone, that as a concerted effort by your party, is undermined from day one. Republicans have had a publicly stated mission to oppose everything from before Obama was even sworn into office. Was that done for good of country or party? Can you honestly praise and criticize the results of your parties efforts in this regard? This is what republicans have spent the last 4 years telling & showing you. Anyone thinking different is trying to spin an overly documented reality.

Obama's plan is to make this country no better than any other country by destroying us from within.

No, Truckerboy, Obama is not a communist, but is a socialist. There is a difference.

Communist. Socialist. 99% on the right have no idea what either are. They just parrot back what ever terms party leaders collaborate to come up with. Most can't argue their position any deeper than what they can repeat back from Fox news verbatim.

Obama's a socialist? Then the word has no meaning. If you're broadly uneducated, and paranoid about "them", then it makes sense. But that's not you, right?

Communist or Socialist, what the heck. A stool sample by any other name is still a stool sample, and our fuggin POTUS stinks.

what I don't understand is why aren't the candidates for President and congress spouting that they will cut aid to foreign countries. they would get my vote. We borrow 40 cents from china for every $ of foreign aid we GIVE AWAY. Somebody promise to cut foreign aid.

Remember Ross Perot? He predicted exactly where America was going and how everything was going to fall apart! I seem to remember him talking at length about the coming destruction of the middle class and the rich taking everything in collusion with the Wall St. vultures and their Ponzi schemes! You look like a god damned prophet Ross!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would someone go and do this in broad daylight?Sure looks like the victim was really a tough-guy bully.And i have to agree with some other comments here,The Victim sure does look like a Smug,arrogant,Macho-man.I noticed some of the picture of him too,there he was,flexing his biceps,but trying to not look like he was flexing..probably another Muscle man thinking he was tough until the nerd he bullied showed him otherwise

Actually it is not the cut in funding that is the problem. Wifemate works in health care. The problem is that the crazyies on the left do not want the crazies on the streets to be put away, they want them out on the streets. Guy in Colorado is an example. Mental Health Care folks said he was dangerous, lefties in Gov disagreed and said it was all everybody else's fault.

Yeah, those lefties use marxian analysis to practice mental health? Yawn. The problem is there is NOWHERE to put such people now that aren't just barbaric holding cells which don't do any good and cost almost as much. So, most of us most of the time just pretend it's not a problem until some REAL crazy shows up with a gun and shoots some people. And that: is profit!

There are 12 year olds in Texas that could have done better than that.

Yeah but being from Texas they don't know how to read or write...so it is pretty even.

Vicious and totally uncalled for. I know you're lying.

May I offer you the thanks of a grateful people for your humanitarian spirit.

It's very difficult to hit a small target like the head, so all the missed shots hit innocent people beyond their target. Had the cops aimed for the chest area like they are supposed to do, then very few people would have been hit by missed shots. And why do you need 6-7 cops to all fire simultaneously at one person? The lead cop should shoot, with the others giving backup in case the subject doesn't go down.