Awesome news. Anytime a unionized public sector worker is let go, the private sector taxpayers win.

It's amazing that people think unions improve job security. Need I remind you that just about every unionized industry in the country has either been outsourced, gone bankrupt, or is one the verge of bankruptcy? Unions once served a roll for this country 100 years ago when people were working 80 hours a week in factories and little girls were getting scalped by machines. Times have changed. We have basic worker protections in place that prevent this sort of thing from happening. Today, all unions do is protect the bottom-feeders for the workforce and remove any incentive for American investors to invest in labor-intensive industries.

Remember, there's a reason why less than 7% of the private sector is unionized while over 30% of the public sector is. No business in the world wants to voluntarily do business with these legalized mobs, and I think that fact has been abundantly clear. Frankly, I don't think public sector workers should even be allowed to unionized, as they aren't employed by profit-driven entities that have a financial incentive to abuse their workforce. How many more cities have to go bankrupt before we start to open our eyes to reality? It's not the corporations and banks that are causing us to go broke; it's overcompensated public sector workers who enjoy salaries and benefits that comparable counterparts in the private sector can only dream of. I applaud the city of Camden and any other local government that is willing to stand up to these vermin.

And as a last point………….when local governments decide that they want to provide essential services to their citizens (law enforcement, education, etc.) their goal shouldn't be to make sure those workers have outstanding salaries and benefits. The goal should be to provide these services to the taxpayers at the lowest cost possible. If eliminating unionized workers results in the ability to double the head-count of the police force, that's frankly a no-brainer. Especially when you consider the city wasn't exactly getting their money's worth before.

because discount police are great and will never take bribes or demand a payment for services because they cant feed themselves on the pay they get. the FACT is that the last time we had union membership this low was 1932 and times were not great for the average worker prior to that- the super awesome 50's- way more union members and we were doing fantastic. today, we make less than our grandparents did.i don't know about you but i do not call that a "win" but people like you don't care about facts all you want is to make sure no one else gets anything but you of course. as much as it would please you we sorta did away with slavery a long time ago and no one is going to do these jobs for free. the whole labor market is moving backwards - what happened to progress?

The OCP Corporation will bring RoboCop to Camden as soon as Governor Christie finishes his latest plate of cannoli and signs the contract.

Tom, you're right about a lot of stuff except that municipalities should be trying to get services at the lowest cost possible. They should be trying to get the highest quality services at a reasonable cost. I worked for a place that always went with the lowest cost bidder. It causes as many problems as it solves.

Once upon a time in the US unions were necessary, particularly in the 60's and 70's. But today's unions cause industry to either go bankrupt or shut down completely because of foolish demands for higher wages. This trend started in the late 70's with the steel industry. A good example is Republic Steel in Youngstown, Ohio. My step-father worked for Republic for over 20 years. In 1978 he was earning 39.00 and hour and the Steelworkers union was asking for more. In 78 at those wages a person was quite wealthy. The steel union were so greedy that the factories could not afford to upgrade machining to produce cheaper steel as the Japanese did. Eventually, Republic Steel went bankrupt and in 1982 the mill closed laying off thousands or forced retirement. Once the industry closed the railroads suffered and again thousands laid off. Today those mills still stand, rusting hulks as a reminder of the greed of the unions.

Another example is New Castle, PA., where I grew up. All steel mills in that city are shutdown and have been for years. It is a sickening site with all the mills still standing along the Shenango River and a reminder of what the city once was.

This may be a good idea Camden has and I hope it works out well for them. Only time will tell.

Gove me a break-get rid of them! It's about time City administrators across ALL US cities start confronting fiscal spending and union-fueled economic instability head-on and quit play games. There are thousands of qualified ex-military police, security personnel, corrections folks, and others that would do the job better, cheaper, and without the constraints that unions have put on the financial strings of taxpayers. Not only police, but everyone from firemen to city clerks to teachers that are payed exhorbitant pay and benefit packages need to be over-hauled. When police in some US cities make over $300K a year and a SGT in the infantry in Afganistan makes $35K - something is wrong.

Camden is a cess pool. Everyone in NJ stays away as much as possible. There is nothing there but crime and crackheads. The local police weren't getting it done. This doubles the force on the ground. The unions have no one to blame but themselves for pricing themselves right out of a job. It's not like the fiscal crisis in NJ is new, but the public unions stick there head in the sand and pretend that they are above it all. Well they aren't, as they have clearly found out now. Honestly I think this will be good for the city, lord knows it can't get any worse. If the whole city burned to the ground tomorrow it would be an improvement.

aggrevatedofficeworker

because discount police are great and will never take bribes or demand a payment for services because they cant feed themselves on the pay they get.

Are you saying that because some police officers take bribes, union police officers are preferable to non-union police officers? Classic non sequitur. And you don't need to answer, because your characterization of non-union police officers as "discount police" already tells me where you stand. And I'm sure you believe that union police officers never take bribes or shake down business owners.

the FACT is that the last time we had union membership this low was 1932 and times were not great for the average worker prior to that- the super awesome 50's- way more union members and we were doing fantastic.

After World War II, we were the only major industrial nation on the planet that hadn't been bombed into rubble. I suspect that has more to do with the affluence of the time than union membership.

today, we make less than our grandparents did.

Cite your source.

Tell me again - what does the New Jersey Guard do? ...oh yeah, they fight the bad guys in Afghanistan.

You see the dirt poor people in Afghanistan are a much bigger threat than all the criminals running around having their way with Camden.

You guys obviously do not have your priorities straight - good thing you have Gov. Kris Krispie to guide you!

Bring in the "for profit" police and get rid of the socialist unionized tax payer funded police and we will see how much better off you are.

CLASS WARFARE: We're jealous of union employees who earn a decent wage and living.

Tom.Marvolo

Awesome news. Anytime a unionized public sector worker is let go, the private sector taxpayers win

---------------------

No stupid, we all lose and the 1% wins. Maybe we should all just work for free so the millionaires feel comfortable enough to trickle down a few dollars.

No stupid, we all lose and the 1% wins. Maybe we should all just work for free so the millionaires feel comfortable enough to trickle down a few dollars.

Name calling...............nice. Please explain to me how a resident of Camden earning 50K a year is going to be negatively affected by this, because frankly I don't see it.

Remember, every worker pays taxes to support the government, so when it decides to consolidate or become more efficient, it's the taxpayers that win. Your claim that only the 1% benefits from this indicates one of two things: either you believe that only the 1% are paying taxes to support public services, or your delusional enough to believe that governments should operate without any budget constraints in order to give their employees anything they want. Frankly, there's not point in arguing with you.

Tom, you're right about a lot of stuff except that municipalities should be trying to get services at the lowest cost possible. They should be trying to get the highest quality services at a reasonable cost.

That's a fair point. Thanks for pointing this out.

I am reminded of the old adage..."You Get What You Pay For"

What would you choose? One professional MMA fighter to protect you or 2 white belts in karate? I'll take the one MMA fighter.

Laying off 267 officers that know the streets/backroads, the crime issues, where they happen, who are the really bad guys, and so on so forth for 400 newbies.

This doesn't sound very smart.

There is hope for Camden.

I live in Princeton New Jersey, Camden's PD is not paid anymore than any other municipality within the state. But Camden is a war zone my friends and I wouldn't put my neck on the line for Sheriffs pay, I can assure of that. I would be willing to bet that the turnover rate for the "New" metro division will be Hugh and that the only entity that truly wins here will be crime itself, certainly not the law abiding citizenry of Camden. What appalls me the most is how targeted the police force cutbacks are, because I can assure you, there's no cut backs on the horizon for municipalities located in Morris County, Bergen County, Somerset County or Hunterdon County and Mercer county if not for the fact it contains the Capital city of Trenton. Thats where the really rich folks live by the way and you all know , they deserve the best of everything, because their just, Well, worth more than those poor people......Right guys?

djrashn

CLASS WARFARE: We're jealous of union employees who earn a decent wage and living.

No, we're angry at public sector union officials who make massive political contributions to those who negotiate their contracts (which contracts are paid for with our tax dollars). In the private sector, that would be called bribery on the one hand and malfeasance on the other.

Great! Once the Unions are gone, those evil demanding unions who no longer serve a purpose, in one more generation we'll all be back to working 60-80 hours for $8 an hour with no benefits.

And that's REALLY going to provide a tax base with which to provide services!

It was fought for, it was won, it became the norm, and now we're being turned against it. And once it's gone, (amazingly, we'll DEMAND it goes!) the corporations (who are people!) will take it away, change the laws, and put us right back where we were in the 19th century.

So that Mitty can stash it in the Caymans.

"Idiots!" - Napoleon Dynamite

Do what you love: And just WHY are your wages stagnent or reduced? Any thoughts!

They should also get rid of the City Hall and replace it with the County's administration - that would save them even more money... government fat cats always save their own job at the expense of others.

peteMT

Great! Once the Unions are gone, those evil demanding unions who no longer serve a purpose, in one more generation we'll all be back to working 60-80 hours for $8 an hour with no benefits.

And that's REALLY going to provide a tax base with which to provide services!

It was fought for, it was won, it became the norm, and now we're being turned against it. And once it's gone, (amazingly, we'll DEMAND it goes!) the corporations (who are people!) will take it away, change the laws, and put us right back where we were in the 19th century.

You, and MANY above you, really should look into the history of unions. 1st of all, QUIT comparing private unions to PUBLIC unions. Public unions are relatively NEW. Came about in the 60's.

And please research who a public union, BARGAINS with for those benefits. Another PUBLIC entity. NOT someone that has to watch the bottom line.

Do you REALLY feel pensions given out at 25 years is really sustainable? Really? And many of the benefits PRIVATE unions never did enjoy !

Do you have any idea what medical costs for some PUBLIC employees? Medical ALONE in my small town of 5,500, is worth over $26,000 PER employee yearly. Longevity pay? Never heard of it when I was in the private sector union. etc etc etc etc.

Some of you people think the benefits public unions get, is the NORM ..... not !

I agree that they should cut costs, but going for the cheapest possible workforce would be a mistake. The area is already a haven for criminals and drug dealers, and if the people paid to protect the area are not given a high enough wage then principals can be more easily compromised with outside cash. Im not saying that wont happen anyway, but it seems a little more likely with a "wal-mart" police force in place.

peteMT

Great! Once the Unions are gone, those evil demanding unions who no longer serve a purpose, in one more generation we'll all be back to working 60-80 hours for $8 an hour with no benefits.

Great! That's the same logic that warmongers use when they say "If we don't increase the defense budget, in one more generation we'll be a second class power." It's called the Slippery Slope Fallacy, and it is no more valid for you than it is for them.

What they really need is Chuck Norris running their PD

Where I live County Police are the norm in a lot of places and frankly it works out quite well for us. I see no reason why it shouldn't work there. That is once they get over having started from scratch.

I wonder how many of the union police officers will leave it to join the non union police force they speak of here?

I hope all of you who think ditching a Union Police force is a good idea actually live in Camden - if not you are probably killing off the people who do - which is more than likely your intent to begin with.

Oh and way to go Chris Christie - what a piece of work.

"One of the most dangerous cities in the U.S.... plan to disband the city's 141-year-old police department"

Gee, but they were doing so well. (sarcasm)

It's their own fault for siting by and watching the city turn to garbage while waiting to start collecting their pensions.

Unions are too expensive nowadays. Also since 49% of the current cops will be transferred, half of the force would be familiar with the city and its crime, which is not too bad for a fresh start. Good luck.

Next up, metro police corporation.

Jails have been sold to for profit corporations, the police won't be far behind. The companies will merge and then you will really see an increase in the number of people arrested and put in jail. They may not be criminals, but they will be in jail anyway. (It has already happened in several jurisdictions with for profit prisons.)

How long has Camden been under democratic control anyway? Like a lot of cities, the goobermunt robbed until they had no one left to rob. Detroit anyone?

What confuses me is why anyone would vote a democrat in office. Camden, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, Baltimore, etc. are all cesspools brought about by democratic political greed. Now one may argue Chicago has it's merits -- unless you like getting beat up and robbed once or twice a year...

Note:

The Mayor and the City Council are Democrats, not Republicans, and they were the ones to dump the Union Police force.

"njofaustin

My step-father worked for Republic for over 20 years. In 1978 he was earning 39.00 and hour and the Steelworkers union was asking for more."

You must be trying to rewrite history

In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, factory workers faced poor working conditions, low wages, and almost no benefits. This was true for the workers employed by most companies, including in the steel industry. In 1937, workers at the Republic Steel Company, the Youngstown Sheet and Tube Company, and several other steel companies went on strike over low wages and poor working conditions. Collectively these steel companies were known as "Little Steel."

In Chicago, strikers, accompanied by wives and children, marched toward the
Republic Steel plant intending to picket. They were met by 250 uniformed police.
A scuffle ensued, and police opened fire, killing 10 unarmed demonstrators and
shooting and beating many more with clubs and ax handles, according to
reports.

It was later learned during the La Follette hearings that seven of the 10
killed were shot in the side or back while running from police.

denver bill 2... in regard to your "warmongers" observation, don't you find it the least bit interesting that the public mood, (manipulated?) is calling for dumping more money into the worlds largest (by far) military industrial complex, and at the same time starving cities and towns? Why the hell do we need a cold war military when all our adversaries have to do is watch us dismantle our great country from within. I'm an old guy and probably have less than a decade or two for my time on earth and to see my great country and its people being discarded by ideas formulated by right-wing brain storms makes me sick.

Hey Jim......I wouldn't consider 1979 to be the either the late 19th or early 20th century. Try to stay on topic as opposed to referencing labor disputes that happened 75 years ago.

People it is past the Point of no return, I don't care who is President or what Political party runs the country, We are done. Its all down hill from here, this country is going to go belly up very soon. Our politicians wanted to play games and now its to late it will come down to either cut the entire government work force State and Federal by 35% and raise taxes to 45% across the board or there is no way America survives.

Class Warfare....right wing brain storms.....one per-centers......yada yada yada. Sounds a lot like Mr. Obama's administration/s rhetoric.

Get a grip folks....whether you are a Progressive or a Conservative.....YOU CAN'T SPEND MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE.

Now we are seeing more and more of these cities/towns going bankrupt. Next will be States and the first on the chopping block will be California. Coming to a city/town/State near you.

Police unions should be a crime itself. there is nothing good about police unions they only encourage corruption, "the blue wall" and the idea that if your a cop your above the law and answer to no one. This was a good step for them! hopefully the people they will get are there for the right reason.

So... I'm watching this big giant war over Unions and whatnot, even though it was originally about the merger of the Police. Feeling I should ask the most responsible question between the two sides... well, here I am. The question is: If the money isn't going to the Unions, then who is it going to? It'd be going to the Lobbyists. That's what Unions are. Lobbyists for the interests of common workers. Some are out there to genuinely make things tolerable, yet also gainful for businesses. Others are stacking the money as high as they can in their coffers before they get found out.

I do feel that Unions are needed. I highly doubt big companies would ever hire the disabled, or give a decent wage if they had absolute control. All they want is as much money as we can throw at them, which they can then used to pay each other for lavish, extravagant things, or have things imported so they can feel better than us. How do I know this? I have Tourettes, specifically, breathing tics when stressed. I used to work for a Grocery Chain, and one of our customers got so roudy and rude, it caused my tics to flare up from stress. I asked to be excused to the bathroom, fighting to catch my breath. It felt like I was being strangled to death.

I came out of the bathroom to find I had been fired. I had chosen not to join the Union, thinking if I was a hard worker, if I was nice, if I was good to everyone, and always stayed happy and upbeat, that I could keep my job. It was the grand experiment none of you have had to live through. Well, as someone with disabilities who chose not to Unionize, I have two words for you: Shut up. You have not lived in my shoes. These are the same companies that ship all our work to China because they have very low standards, enough to kill babies from poison in Powered Milk. That's how much these beloved Corporations care about you.

I also firmly believe a lot of the money agony is coming from the retirement age climbing. Y'know, that free money for being an old fart which you believe you deserve, where you want to strip it from young folks in trouble/barely on their feet. If they'd lower the retirement age to around 60, and allow them to pump new, young blood into these companies, we're probably see more productivity, but they're desperately clinging to older workers. I'm no economics major, but I do believe that right there is part of our problem. Lower benefits from unemployment, lower the age for retirement, hopefully boom, younger work force getting their careers started.

It is almost impossible to fire a Bad cop because of police Unions. You think im kidding ask any police chief. I knew a cop who shot multiple times at children who were running from him at night in a golf course and guess what? yep hes still working for this police department because the police union will not allow them to fire him. Thats why when cops do really wrong things on the job and only get a slap on the wrist or "paid administrative leave" is 100% because of the police Unions.

Sounds like more of the same penis-lipped GOP nonsense. Just another Day in the Life...

Hah. To hell with Unions. Here in Jacksonville we had to cut the number of cops due to the Mayor not wanting to raise taxes to cover the loss in property tax revenue due to lowered value of homes. A noble gesture. So what did the Unions do? Let go all of the Junior officers. I have 4 friends that are now jobless due to the Unions. 4 friends that were quality, young, ambitious, hard working cops. They werent let go on quality nor performance. They also were low wage due to being rookies. Instead we let them go because theyre the newbies. The old, fat, useless, overpaid cops got to keep their jobs based on senority. Just like with the teachers unions.

wje37fcsm The military industrial complex isnt a Republican monster. Both sides are to blame. Im a republican and I dont support it. Do I support the men and women who serve? Yes. Do I support a 1.2 tillion dollar defense budget? No.

Do a little research. The Military Industrial Complex started 60 years ago and no democratic President has slowed it down. I seem to remember Clinton exhausting our stash of Cruise missiles back in the day........

Except Camden is Dem controlled... Any more words of wisdom, Frog?

Imagine you're a middle class citizen residing in Camden and this is the situation you're faced with. Your city is broke and is running massive budget deficits. You have an incompetent police force that has contributed to one of the highest crime rates in the country. Now, with public funds drying up and the city's credit rating in the toilet, you're faced with two options. You can either:

-Demand to have your own taxes raised in order to keep the status quo

-Support a complete restructuring of the police force in which you add 130 new members without any additional costs

Honestly, how many individuals here can say with a straight face that they would choose the first option? And don't claim that you can just raise taxes on the rich, because there aren't any in Camden.

Xina the Awesome

You've got it right - Aggressive public sector unions eventually price themselves right out of the job - greed will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Pay a cop what he or she is worth - but let's get rid of the union featherbedding and unaffordable pensions and for-life healthcare.

Awesome news. Anytime a unionized public sector worker is let go, the private sector taxpayers win.

Print this out and hang it on your wall Tom.

You people on the right just don't get it. Next you'll be working for 2.00 an hour and picking herbs to combat your diabetes.

For every union that goes down the rest of us are one step closer to slave wages and being owned by our companies. Welcome to 3rd world America. I hope all of you dim bulbs who pushed for it enjoy it when you're scratching for a bowl of cream of wheat to get through the day.

Cause => Effect.

Would be nice if there was a way to punish biased journalists who use misleading headlines. They aren't ditching the police force as if the city will have no police protection.

Why won't more of the readership blast NBCNEWS for their constant spin?

And pointing to bad behavior to justify bad behavior is juvenile. Of course other media does it, and their readership should be blasting them too.

Literary integrity has gone out the window and when a civilization no longer respects the written word, the civilization dies.

Frankly, I don't think public sector workers should even be allowed to unionized, as they aren't employed by profit-driven entities that have a financial incentive to abuse their workforce.

Really? And just two postings above is this gem by Tom Marvolo:

Awesome news. Anytime a unionized public sector worker is let go, the private sector taxpayers win.

And this is actually one of the nicer ones. You can see the verbal abuse being heaped upon unions by the very people who hire them and are responsible for paying their salaries.

We are in a race to the bottom, on our way to the libertarian paradises that already exist in most 3rd world countries in Africa. The people who are starving there pay no taxes. They are also starving because they have a total breakdown of services and infrastructure, but we Americans are better, right? We are all powerful lone gunmen who can fend for ourselves and if only we can get rid of our government and infrastructure, we will also be living in paradise.

People make the argument "they get benefits people in the private sector can only dream of." But think it through. This is obviously not true. There are many people in the private sector who are extremely well off. One of them is even running for President, for example. Should we really give public sector people with talent the least amount equivalent to what someone in the private sector is making? And then we complain "Oh, government can NEVER do anything right."

Essentially, right now, we are in a position where we are squeezing our public sector employees for every dime they are worth. Is a schoolteacher of 20 years going to quit even if you cut his or her salary in half? No. The public still gets work out of these employees who are now stuck in what the voting public has turned into dead end jobs. But why would someone entering the workforce take such a job? That talented teacher who could turn out a batch of fine young minds ready for the workforce will spend her career as a sales or marketing person in some private company, or wherever.

Things aren't as bad as they will be in 20 years, since we have some public service people trapped. But they are already starting to deteriorate - you cannot force someone to take a job, and the talented people are getting older and older.

It's a race to the bottom. Until we re-learn to respect our public sector's employees, our schoolteachers, our firemen, our cops, our Federal government, we are going to be taking apart the fabric of the society that is America. In the end, hate destroys the hater. Is this the fate we want? For ourselves? Our family? Our neighbors? Our children, who will suffer most for this?

We used to be better than this. What has happened to us?

Unions didn't price themselves out of the market, they made non union companies pay the same wages to keep everyone in jobs with wages that people could live on. And if you think paying less, like for Chinese crap (often poisonous crap) is a better way to spend money, I disagree.

And if you really think working for a union makes people "Upper" class, you have no idea what upper class is. It's not teachers and firefighters and policemen. I'll tell you what you don't know. All of you people who think you're "middle class" had better look up the monetary limits of that. Those who think they're middle class are really lower class financially. You've been fed bull@!$%# on that account. And you have NO, I repeat NO idea how much money the upper class has. And they want to keep it, and you lower class people are letting them......and harming yourselves in the process.

I live in a right to work state. What that means is it's a right to fire your ass for any reason state for companies. And a right to pay you non livable wages because they can. And if you complain, well we'll ship your job to China.....threat threat. Bring the unions back. Bring the middle class back. Or in 10 years we'll be looking at a revolution that will make the one in 1776 look like playtime.

No, we're angry at public sector union officials who make massive political contributions to those who negotiate their contracts

and the same idiots that whine like little babies about "public employee unions making political contributions" are dead silent when big oil, and big defense do exactly the same thing and waste your taxpayer dollars to line the pockets of a few CEOs

this delusion that somehow that those that already control 60% of the wealth and are stripping whats left of the midle class somehow "deserve to win and its the little guys fault he can't compete with those that have billions more" is utterly insane

"Remember, every worker pays taxes to support the government, so when it decides to consolidate or become more efficient, it's the taxpayers that win"

So you think hiring 400 rookie cops to police the most dangerous city in the country is a win just because it save money? I bet you don't live there do you?

Jim 653566 You don't know a damn thing about steel workers making $39 an hour in 1978. I am a retired steel worker that retired late 1978 and I was lucky to have made $23 a day . I was in shipping which was heavy hard work was being paid piece work and I was a top worker Worked for Bethlehem for 31 years and I get the big retirement of $530 a month and no health benefits ! You can't tell me what was being made in 1978 You are just a tea party fool telling lies. Nobody should believe a word you say. Youse an Idiot spred down right lies

PS; No I don't pay income tax for with the only hand out I have is social security and the big pension I am still in a low income bracket

Our little suburb is saving money by combining police and fire districts with the little suburb next door. Same number of officers and firefighters, but the real savings is in administrative costs. There were two fire chiefs making six figures, now one. There were two police chiefs making six figures, now one. Ditto for things like dispatch and the like.

We are trying to get our local school boards to do the same thing. We have a giant staff to service two high schools. The super makes a quarter of million a year and he has a car, retirement, health care, etc. He has a staff of people. To over see two schools! Each high school has a principal making 150 and two vice principals make a hundo apiece.

There are huge savings to be had in administrative headcount and overhead in towns and counties all over this nation.

This is not about union busting, it is about getting government costs in line.

This kind of thing will soon be the norm across this nation.

This is all Christies fault. He's gov of New Jersey Right? Shouldn't he have this whole crime situation under control? Shouldn't he spend less time line jumping ahead of Palin at Chik Fil A and actually focus on taking care of his homestate. <-- Sarcasm, but exactly what the right would say about Obama.

I say Christie... Fire all those police officers, higher some mall security officers at minimum wage (remember the GOP mantra, the lower the better), NO Medical benefits, why should they have it, then turn them loose with a night stick and a bottle of pepper spray. Then the GOP can use the saved dollars to give a tax cut for corporations in New Jersey, after all, it would create more jobs in the state.

PeteMT; Romney and Ryan to reduce the unemployed do away with the Mininium wage and you will be lucky to get $8 a day to compete with Romney's over seas companies.

Ah, gotta love those collapsing haters. The very same people collapsing these (for the most part) comments are the very same people who caused Camden's, (and other cities) problems in the first place. And you wonder why this country is in the economic state it's in. (sar)

Greed and corruption, that's where its at.

How utterly ridiculous some of these posts are. I refuse to believe that people could be so backwards thinking and short sighted. I assume that most people posting here aren't multi-millionaires. Paying public employees like teachers, cops, fire-fighters, city managers, head of the city utility department, etc. minimum wage sounds like a great idea? That's probably 30- 40% of your neighbors who will now go from their "overpaid" status of $38,000 a year to poverty status wages. They will no longer be able to afford middle-class housing, buying cars, sending kids to college, etc. So what you say because it doesn't affect you as you work in the private sector. Wake the hell up. How long do you think your private sector employer is going to continue paying you $75,000 a year in your private sector job once this happens? Minimum wage for your college degree required job (yes, teachers, police, and fire require degree now) will be next. You think private sector companies will lower their prices once 88% of the American work force starts getting paid minimum wage? Seriously? Taking what's left of the middle class and adding them to the already growing poor class is crazy thinking. Instead of trying to pull your neighbor down with you, take some personal responsibility and work towards fairer wages and benefits in all sectors.

Clayton-54726

That was a statement from njofaustin who said his step-father made $39.04 an hour in 1979

I know better than that, so i looked up some facts that would prove him wrong.

My first job, I started off at $1.75 an hour in 1967

niofaustin wrote: "A good example is Republic Steel in Youngstown, Ohio. My step-father worked for Republic for over 20 years. In 1978 he was earning 39.00 and hour and the Steelworkers union was asking for more. In 78 at those wages a person was quite wealthy. The steel union were so greedy that the factories could not afford to upgrade machining to produce cheaper steel as the Japanese did."

BS. That's a complete lie. Steelworkers were not making $39 an hour in the late 1970's. And the management of the steel mills, just like the management of the automakers were, responsible for not being able to compete with the Japanese. Management was arrogant and didn't think the Japanese could take away their business. They scoffed at the new ways of making steel and autos. In the steel mills, it was making steel in mini mills. They kept making steel the labor intensive old fashioned way until it was too late and the Japanese had already taken a large share of the market. Same thing in the auto industry. They kept using outdated plants and didn't start using automation until it was too late.

Like most companies, management is inept and when they run a company into the ground they blame it on the union. In Japan, steelworkers and autoworkers are unionized. The difference is, Japanese management aren't greedy like American management is. I remember when the Emperor of Japan came to the US around 20 years ago, he was astonished at how much money upper management of the big three automakers made. In Japan they made 3-5 times what the line workers made, just like it was here in the US back in the 1950's when the economy was humming along. Here they make 100 times or more what the average worker makes. Also in Japan, they value their union workers and have them give input on how to make things run more efficiently. Not like here where management tries to screw them around and treat them badly.

EarlyOut-1524710

Given the job the citizens have done there as citizens says a lot...citizens failed Camden not the Goverment..Police force was 141 years old.. and when did the trouble began?

OeterK nice baiting. Not going to work. We arent suggesting paying cops minimum wage. Those of us that have brains are looking at California as an example of how overpaid government has led to bankrupty. Its kinda funny to me that I got a white collar job with my college degree and make less than my City's police...who are funded by my taxes.....

Ah Roodles is the typical Union lackey. "We werent paid enough...its managements fault." Hrmm.....

OeterK

In some villages in Europe is a saying...If my goat dies, I hope my neighbors goat drops dead..

Thanks thaguydownsouth for your reponse to OeterK - I had though he/she was the one with backward thinking..... BTW - I'm in the same situation as you, college educated, and the trash collectors in town make more money and benefits than me. I could go be a trash collector and pick up trash for the better pay, but I'd put money on the table the trash collector couldn't do my job and keep the company I work for afloat. go figure.....

For real. Ive often wondered whether the student loans and 4 years were worth it when I could have become a Janitor for the city for the same pay. Litterally. I worked for the city govt here and the janitor made as much as me.....Not knocking on janitors of course...but damn....

I'm glad non-union police officers will be put in place. Unions are destroying every trade group, trade groups that made our country great. Unions were wonderful decades ago but it has evolved into something totally different today. Unions leaders getting paid great salaries with great pensions and for what? Taxpayers get the shaft.

danwill

and the same idiots that whine like little babies about "public employee unions making political contributions" are dead silent when big oil, and big defense do exactly the same thing and waste your taxpayer dollars to line the pockets of a few CEOs

And when the same idiots who whine about big business taking all the money post some statistics to show how many taxpayer dollars go to big business, compared to how many taxpayer dollars go to public employees (Federal, state and local .... because we pay them all), I might entertain their argument.

Thatguydownsouth;

I'm sure the janitor's job of keeping a place clean and functioning is not near as important as a degree in marketing where the contributions of requiring people to pay 1.00 for air was a source of great pride in the marketing departments nationwide, let's not forget all the finanicial tools that enabled wall street to distribute more wealth to the top, and where else can one learn the languages of corporate speak and the importance in one's career path for that alone college graduates should earn a lot more than people that work with their hands.. and and and they paid money to insure they would get more..

WTF is going on..? ehhh

Roodles, you missed one point regarding the auto industry. One of the other reasons that the Japanese automakers were efficient was that if a worker saw something wrong on the line, he could have it shut down until the problem was corrected. The workers on the American lines were not allowed to do the same back in those days. I do agree that njofaustin is full of it saying that his father was making $39 an hour back in 1978. I highly doubt that he was even anywhere close to that amount as an overtime amount back then.

As for the article itself, I believe that Camden had let go of a number of officers in the past couple of years. I wonder how much of the current budget is because they need more officers working overtime. I also "love" how politicians of all sides never vote to take a pay cut when there are budgetary issues. In fact, where I live, about 2 hours from Camden, the head of the County Legislature voted himself a raise, doubling his pay (he is Repub), as well as the legislature themselves (consisting of both parties) giving themselves raises. Then they had the audacity to say that they did not have enough money to cover essentials in the budget! They also said that once they had a raise, they cannot take a cut in pay! Now we have a lowered S&P rating because of them.

Que the new GOP program: No Cop left behind.

@ thatguydownsouth - I believe it was worth it. Taught me the reward of hard work. And, I've found the skills learned during college has made me more able to adapt to new jobs/challenges as the years go by. I do find it annoying the Unions have become so unrealistic, forcing pay and benefits far beyond the value of the job. Let alone their myopic view, seeing State and Federal govt.s as a source of almost unlimited funds. But the Tax payers are starting to fight back. No longer are they going to allow "yet another" tax increase to pay for these folks. Hence, why cities are starting to go under. One way or another, Unions are going to stop bullying their employers to pay excessive wage and and unsustainable benefits.

Thatguydownsouth, in NYC, the janitors and garbagemen make more money to start, without any college, than the teachers do starting out with Masters degrees. Also, I don't know about where you live, but up North where I am, people going into most of the police forces have to have some college, although preferably a 4-year degree in Criminal Justice or a similar track. The janitors and garbagemen make more than the starting police do, too.

If they don't do this transition right, it will be like when you were a kid and there was a new bus driver all of a sudden. Pure chaos lol

This is a flat out union busting move and the people of Camden are going to really suffer for it.

This nation has been busting unions since Reagan took office in 1981, more than 30 years now. As a clear result, we have become a nation of the uber wealthy and the working poor.

Everybody likes to say they are in the middle class. The reality is that 90% of the middle class would be out of their homes in 180 days or less if they lost one of their jobs. How many of you self proclaimed "middle class" have 6 months full wages in hard cash savings? Because that is a minimum of what it takes to actually be called "Middle Class". If your answer to that is no, then you are "Working Poor".

The Working Poor makes 12 cents less per year than their counterpart in 1969. That is how much ground we have lost.

Dear Working Poor,

If you like where you are, vote for the Republican ticket. If you like working till you die, vote for the Republican ticket. Want to make the uber wealthy even more wealthy, vote for the Republican ticket. If your gun and bible are more precious to you than your job and your family, vote for the Republican ticket. If you like being one lay off from disaster for your family, go ahead, drink the Cool-Aid and vote for the Republican ticket.

The only thing the Republican ticket today is good for is the uber wealthy, who I will remind you, don't care if you live or die. The wealthy do not fight the wars, do not build our nation. They build their wealth first, last, always and at your expense.

I will be voting Democrat in every office, every issue and for the rest of my life. Republicans SUCK!

Great idea.....More Accountability....With Deeper Pockets for Paying Out Their Civil Rights Violations! Other America Cities needs to move away from having the Mayors Private Army and Return to having NOTHING But Elected Sheriffs and their Subordinates for Law Enforcement!

Just One More Reason Folks....We do not need to Re-Elect the So Called "Lesser of two Evils"....Can you Imagine the Roar from the American People if King George had signed into NDAA 2012 Law of Indefinite Detention and Assassinations of American Citizens without Trial?

Bailout Barry is by far the GREATER of the TWO EVILS! It is Better to Vote for a Suspect Liar than a Proven Mass Murderer & Liar!

WHAT AMERICA NEEDS NOW IS OUTRAGE and REFUSAL TO KEEP REWARDING THESE CORRUPT WALL STREET MINIONS or pay for their PRIVATE ARMIES!

Refuse To Reward Failure & Treason....Refuse To Re-Elect ANY Incumbents in November!

Not even Wall Streets Killer DRONE Bee...Barry I don't need No Stinking ECONOMY Obama!

Let the citizens decide which they would rather have. Police or politicians? I'll bet it's almost unanimous in favor of police. Board members will be put on waivers and voluntary status without salary. If they don't like that the citizens will know true politician status as to being patrons of the community or not. What happened to less government anywho? Get rid of the politicians. They have proved time and time again to be utterly worthless.

So they are replacing an overpriced and problematic union police force who obviously was doing a pretty @!$%#ty job, with a cheaper and less abusive non-union police that puts over 100 more people to work protecting the city. I think it is time all cities adopt this policy.

You can debate the union vs non-union argument all day but I believe there is a bigger issue at stake and that is property taxes. I believe one of the biggest issues we have in America is not whether we are being taxed but where our taxes are being directed. Property taxes should be pay for services rendered to property owners. Thus paying for fire, rescue and a portion of the police force would all be good uses of my property tax money; however, paying for schools? That has nothing to do with my property.

And what about all those who don't own property receiving services? Or what happens when you crash the housing market and all those services whose paychecks were tired to property tax and value are suddenly in decline?

The issue is that America has been poorly rigged and slovenly run for decades now and the house of cards is falling down. As depression and poverty continues to march against each city the problem will only worsen as cash flees counties and citizens are left looking like Detroit.

LEB beat me to it. This is a stupid move. Maybe after we see the fallout of it no one will ever consider it again. Privatization of things like PD's, schools, and fire departments never ends well. Private companies are there to make money regardless of the services they provide. They can deny anyone a right to use those services based on what ever metric they choose so long as it is not discriminatory.

Public sector, on the other hand, is required to render it's services to everyone without exception.

Camden is a cesspool of crime and violence and has been so for decades, and It's little wonder that virtually the entire middle class has left and little remains of any tax base. I don't really know if any real solution is available because if they managed to lock up all the criminals, the city's population would drop dramatically.

I suppose they figure that given the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the Camden police force, they might as well disband them go for the discount cops. The result should be about the same.

I have to hope that some of you are pulling my leg. You are talking out both sides of your arses. On one hand "patriotically" damning the "freeloading" poor chanting America is the land of capitalistic opportunity where anyone with a little hard work can be whatever they want to be, and then crying that the garbage man makes more money than you. You are against entitlement except when it comes to yourself. It isn't my problem, the government's problem, or the garbage man's problem if a garbage man makes more money than you. Show some personal responsibility. Go become a garbage man, teacher, janitor, etc if you covet their wages and easy work. Don't want to be a garbage man but still not happy with your pay? Go back to school and work toward a job in a field that pays better. If you want more money, get off your rump and earn it rather than acting like baby and saying Johnny shouldn't get two suckers when I only get one. Stop whining and crying that you are owed this and that when you are too lazy to work for it.

The "we pay their salaries" argument is completely nonsensical. We all pay each other's salaries. That's the way our economy functions. You pay the teacher's salary with your taxes, she pays yours by purchasing your business's product. If you aren't happy with the teacher's product, you have the same choice you have at a restaurant, take your cash and move somewhere else.

How often do we hear that corporate CEOs and baseball players are paid outrageous sums and so called conservatives tell us that is how it is since you have to pay to get the best? It works the same way with anything. If you want a top performing superintendent or principal in your city's schools, you have to pay the price. If you don't want to pay your superintendent well, move somewhere where the school's pay isn't competitive, you'll get what you pay for with a superintendent that took the low pay because she wasn't good enough to get a better job. As far as the assine thinking that if you don't have kids in school your taxes shouldn't go to school because you get no benefit, really? Ask a Realtor or developer/home builder about that one and watch how hard they laugh at you. The same house in town with poor schools is worth double or more in town with good schools.

I worked hard in school, spent huge amounts of cash and effort to get advanced degrees in a field that pays well so that I could afford to live in a city with great homes, schools, low crime, excellent city services, etc. I worked hard to be able to afford these things because I wanted them. I pay for them because that is how it works. You earn and pay for what you get. If your white collar job pays you peanuts and you don't make half of what my school district's janitors make. Too bad, that your problem, not mine or the janitor's.

I'd like to know who it is that is determining the values of our homes - those are the people screwing our cities. I bought my current home for $120,000 in December of 2008 - one just like it is now selling for $90,000 down the street. This home is totally worth $120,000 - those of you in $300,000 homes haven't lost a cent in value...what the hell is going on?

The home I sold in 2001 for $120,000 in another State is also now selling for $90,000...somebody is screwing the middle class and poor big time, this is just as bad as the over values of the 2000's.

I work for a county government, and i can think of a lot of dept/people i would lay off before i'd pick on the police force...most government depts are top heavy with personel....so they are getting rid of 280 union jobs which is good but did any of those guys want to stay and work non-union?

the working class must depend on the scraps from the plates of the wealthy- the solution? give the wealthy more and better food.

No one has ever been able to explain to me why public employees need protection from the majority? Hey is this country a democracy or not? Isn't the majority supposed to be in control?

There is some faulty logic at work here. In this day and age, a city's revenue is generated in three basic ways:

• through its justice system or law enforcement - er, revenue - department (traffic fines, court fines and fees, building permit fees, code-related fines, etc.)
• under its tax authority (sales taxes, property taxes, license fees, etc.)
• by providing water/sewer, electrical and other utility services to its citizens (electricity, water, sewer, and other infrastructural services)

Of these, the tax authority is rather limited in the amount of revenue it can generate, especially in economic crunches when people are spending less money in general. City-owned utility services are also rather limited in the amount of revenue they can generate, and the vast majority of that revenue results in very little, if any, actual income to the city.

The justice system (including law enforcement and code enforcement) provides a major chunk of the revenue for many cities and towns in America today. And that system is the means by which a city can increase revenue dramatically without requiring the approval of citizens or the passage of new ordinances, etc. If the city's coffers are low, they simply send out the police department to write traffic tickets, and code enforcement officers to ticket homeowners and contractors for violations of city ordinances. This means of revenue generation is routinely undertaken and usually achieved by cities big and small across the US. So any city that cedes its law enforcement responsibility to the county is also ceding a major portion of its revenue and its ability to create, increase, or control the flow of revenue into its coffers. What then becomes of a city which has no jurisdictional authority over its citizens, and no power to enforce its statutes or ordinances? It must rely solely on its tax authority. Which means sales and property taxes will increase immediately to cover the gap left by the absence of a city-run police force. Which means citizens will travel outside the bounds of the city to purchase most items, compounding the financial woes of that city.

So then what?? If the city cannot meet the needs of its citizens, why should the city continue to exist?? Why should it have any further authority to tax, pass laws, host parades and fireworks displays, or employ fire department personnel??

The fact is when negotiating for wages
the local governing bodies opted to give more in way of pension benefits to
keep wages down, They would have been better off upping the wages and
forgoing all the pension perks and could have still been solvent at
this day and age. 20 and out is not a good way to to base being
eligable for full pension when they take early retirment. Am 61 and still
have to wait 1 more year to start drawing my pension. This has much to do with why all local Governments having such a hard time right now.

It's pathetically funny how, during times like these, the sheeple all harmonize the same blah blah blah...blaming Unions for the demise of the nation's economy. Clueless albeit, since Union's fought for livable wages, benefits such as health insurance and a retirement plan...along with the 40 hr workweek many of you non-union people enjoy today whenever you are paid time and a half for over 40 hrs. It's a law under the Fair Labor Standards Act, which bet on this... whenever the Unions are busted and gone, that law will be repealed! The miserable, envious non union folks would rather see a low-wage, contract workforce take the place of essential municipal workers such as police, firemen even waste removal personnel. Well, along with the bargained for wages and benefits was safety training, legal training and emergency services training. All on the job and entirely for the service of the public. It just doesn't dawn on the brainless masses who refer to themselves as "taxpayers", that they are creating their own future of doom; whereas no decent jobs will be available, no civic protection or professional emergency services can be relied upon. Yeah, blame the Unions for everything wrong in your financial world. Don't you dare point the finger of blame on the previous republican administration who took any teeth out of the existing banking regulations (Glass Steagull Act) and allowed Wall Street, big insurance (AIG) and investment bankers to rape our economy. In fact, vote another administration back into office (Romney/Ryan) who promise to finish off any regulatory laws pertaining to the same crooks who got us into this mess and were bailed out by George W with the first trillion going to firms like AIG, Bank of America, and various investment firms. That's the ticket... when times are hard, attack the working class!

Well we are stuck in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Most of the Lefties here think that the answer is to bring back unions everywhere. Ok great. Let's do that. Who is going to buy their products? The minute the Federal Government allowed products manufactured overseas in basically third world countries into our economy, without heavy tariffs to even the playing field, it started the end of our manufacturing. Which started the end of Unions. We as Americans have nobody but ourselves to blame for this. When confronted with buying USA made paperclips for $3.00 or China made paperclips for $1.00, the average consumer did what anyone would do to stretch their dollar. They bought the cheaper product. The cat is already out of the bag here. There isn't any going back. We certainly aren't going to tariff the hell out of Chinese made products - not when our Federal Government owes China trillions in debts.

I was a public union employee for many many years. Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy. 10 years ago, when faced with financial hardships, our city tried to get additional city taxes via an increase in income tax. The public rejected this... several times. Faced with shrinking revenues, the city gave our union 2 options. Take a 20% cut in pay across the board and save 25 jobs, or lay off 25. Greed won out. Those who put wages over manpower won out and we lost 25 union brothers. Those positions have still not been reinstated. That changed my opinion of my union, and those leading it. Somewhere it changed from a watch each other's back union to a what's in it for me union. You see, the union leadership said it was just a ploy by the city to shrink our wages, and that we should call their bluff. I did not agree with this, as I was in charge of a joint union committee (involving all the city unions) that combed through the city's budget looking for waste that could be cut instead of jobs. There wasn't any. We accounted for every dime. I reported this to the membership when we voted on whether to take the concessions or 'call their bluff'. Even when faced with these facts, that there just wasn't anywhere in the budget that wasn't already cut to the bone, the union leadership pushed for keeping their wages instead of fellow union brothers. And ours was not unique in this. All the other city unions voted to keep wages instead of manpower. Over the years I have found this to be the norm across the country instead of the exception. Which saddens me. Bravo to those locals that haven't been infected with the greed bug. They are few and far between.

OerterK - there is a basic problem with your post. It takes Manufacturing jobs to pay for service jobs. There needs to be more manufacturing jobs than service jobs. We have been narrowing the gap between the 2 for a while now. We cannot exist primarily being a service industry economy. And the comment, that we pay for your job by buying your product is not quite true. There are industries that do not sell to the public, or is not a public consumed good. You need to look at a bigger picture. Honestly, we do not need more teachers, we need to retain the best teachers and dump the bad ones. Dumping the lowest 3% would push us into the top 6 globally, right now, I think we are 14 or lower. We do not need 16000 new IRS workers to track the Obamacare money shuffle. We need the money spent on their wages and benefits going to care. Our first priority is to create new jobs in the US, not service jobs, manufacturing jobs. That is the first step to recovery.

I don't get it? I've been working for 20 years when the 1980's came around; which was just after a recession and the onset of Hyper Inflation. Does anybody remember those days? Well wages, banking laws, corporate structure all changed and we all started working more for less and companies began to find ways to increase profits any way possible. Industry was sold off so manufacturing could be done else where for a fraction of the cost. Economics Right? Well by not having a industrial base the country has lost 60% of its tax revenue. Also who payed for Desert storm, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so many others? I do not support either party because both only try to sustain an artificial economy. None have the ability to lead this country, now is the time for a real American to stand up!

So you get 400 police officers for the price of 267? More boots on the ground can't be a bad thing. Now they just need mobile police stations stationed in the bad neighborhoods to deter crime.

People tend to gravitate to the extremes in their beliefs, but what has made America successful all this time is the struggle between those extremes. Many areas of the Country are in hardship right now, but the solution always lies in the balance between the radical groups. There will be no simple fix in this system we have created.

Society needs Unions, but Unions can create their own set of problems. Cities need competent civil servants, but competent civil servants expect a fair living standard. Most cities balance these needs well, and it is only the most poorly managed that make the news and create the belief that these problems are truly crippling our country instead of a few select cities.

We have better living standards than most countries, we pay less taxes than most of the European countries, and we still have a good measure of integrity and equality. We are a resilient people. I don't believe the United States is going belly up anytime soon, even though the doom and gloom would surely love to sell us the concept.

Bob - not sure where you were at in the 80's, but the middle class thrived. My parents both made good money through the 80's to the late 90's. Much better than they did in the 70's. And since income tax revenue to the Federal government doubled in Reagan's 8 years, I'd say the economy did pretty damn good. The economic recovery of the 80's provided the capital that laid the foundation for the tech explosion of the early 90's. And despite Clinton's best efforts to kill it, that economy survived until the late 90's. The problem with the 80's was, and this is the only thing I can fault Reagan for, is he let Congress spend money like a drunk sailor on liberty. But, even the great Reagan had to make compromises, and to get his military spending included in the Federal budget (which ultimately caused the collapse of the Soviet Union), he had to let Congress go nuts. And boy did they. Ah the glory years of our military... with the 600 ship Navy and a major at sea presence around the world...

Not the case willowbrook. Like six degrees of Kevin Bacon, you name me any industry and I'll easily tie it to public consumption. A tool and die service may not sell its product to the "publc" but they sell to Ford which puts the product in their car, which the public consumer buys. Ford then turns around and pays the tool and die company with the public consumer's money. Unless the industry is printing money in its shop, the employees of the industry are getting paid by consumers.

I have never been a member of a union so what I post is, for me, strictly looking at SOME of the consequences which MAY occur in Camden, N.J. or any other city which cuts back on their police, fire dept, city employees, or teachers. The advantages were outlined in the piece, basically economic savings which are sorely needed. The adverse results will be more crime, more unresolved crimes, slower response time for emergencies, and probably more crooked cops due to the low wages they will be paid. As for the teachers, perhaps they will not be first class and the quality of education may diminish. There will be a general lowering of the caliber of personnel all of these jobs will eventually attract. Of course there will be the 51% of current police officers in Camden, and countless other employees of various city, county, and state depts. and agencies witch will be unemployed and that will lead to more people on food stamps, and unemployment benefits. Then we can just blame the current or next government administration for the problems. All the employees who are "laid off" (fired), just tough luck for those folks, right?

I wouldn't let my dog live in Camden. The Dems did a job on that place.

Yes, it was the unions that caused an economic crash. It wasn't greedy corporations or avarice in the banking industry. It was collective bargaining agreements. You are wise to note that. /sarcasm

Sorry Isr....did you see the head count? They save money and get nearly TWICE the police force. Almost double. You don't see that as a problem when it comes to unions? That the union was so greedy that it did not even move to lower its demands to keep its member employed just demonstrates this even more.

Sorry but every time I hear about "greedy corporations" I have to roll my eyes. Those corporations drive employment, they drive innovation, and they exist to make a profit. Cash is what corporations eat and if you have a job, then you work for a greedy company that relies on cash flow to survive.

We want them to all hire in the states at 5 times the cost, but when they push that cost to the consumer in their end product then we scream and go buy stuff made in China. So in the end, WHO are the greedy ones? I would lay that blame on us, all of us. We want to be employed and make lots of money but when it comes to buying American so our neighbors can be employed well, that's too much to ask. I am as guilty as you are and anyone else on this board is. So lets point the finger where it belongs shall we?

I have to agree with IsrJablonski. It's been established for anyone who actually cared to look into it that most investment firms that handled the 401k's for public sector workers invested them into the junk bonds that were the cause of the housing collapse. They intentionally invested in them for their clients knowing they were toxic and them took out insurance against them knowing they would collect once they tanked. They got paid to invest the money and then got paid again when the investments failed. Matt Taibbi, editor of Rolling Stone magazine, has written and spoken about this extensively but certain people don't want to hear it from the "liberal media" with their pesky facts.

Does the city really save money? According to the article, they haven't proven that it is going to save money. It simply gives them more leeway to do contracts with less benefits. I wonder if they have figured in the cost of the unemployment for the 56% of the force that won't be rehired by the country, plus the cost of relocating people from out of state who are applying for the jobs. Usually, they have to cover that expense. MAYBE they will add 400 to the county force, but what guarantee do you have that the 400 are actually always going to be serving in the Metro Division? What about the additional costs for maintaining that almost double sized department. If the city couldn't meet expenses with 267, how are they going to cover 400? 133 more officers to provide equipment for, etc.

What the city should have been looking at for the past 10 years is what is the root of the excessive crime in their city. How do they solve the root problems? Are they going to spend the "saved" money on solving those issues? Bad economies increase crime in any locale. I know, as I watch the crime rise in St. Croix, USVI after one of your state oil companies (Hess) closed the HOVENSA refinery here this spring. When people can't find work to put food on the table, they resort to crime.

Thank you Gour....well said. As a member of a union and employer of said workers I see daily examples of entitlement standing in the way of common sense economics. You can have the best product but if no one can afford it the customer will move to another source. Quality, quite often, is replaced with affordability. The mindset has migrated to 'it is better to have a whole lot of stuff then to have a few items of quality.'

Instead of reigning in costs the union increased them when we could least afford the added expense. Benefits now come within a few dollars of actual wages realized by the workers. Yes (for those of you who have an inkling), the increases where put inplace to cover the excess's that were implemented when the economy was rolling along. Union(s) have become a 'for profit' organization, the big corporation that they demonize as greedy and excessive.

What they fail to realize is the communist state that they so long for in reality has two classes. Those of the upper tier who rule in luxury (a small hand chosen group) and those that toil to support it (the worker ants).

In addition to these stories we read here, saw on TV news today, 44 mil Americans are on food stamps, 100 million Americans receive some sort of check from the gubmint. We are not sustainable as a society. Too many people have made a business out of getting money from the gubmint, too many people got jobs in gubmint handing out the checks to others. Poly-tissiuns quit saying "no" a long time ago. All these people built a huge empire of welfare and entitlements (social and corporate) thinking the few people in the private sector still working would somehow be able to pay the bills. Whoops - somebody miscalculated.

As usual, this NBC News headline is a bit disingenuous.

This is the wave of the future and the only economic option many cities will have to get ‘out from under’ the crushing financial demands of public unions!

I think it’s a great idea; they should do the same for other departments and begin this process at a state level!

this is a disaster...when people call 911 they'll get a busy signal and then what? These guys are inexperienced and truly don't know how to handle crimes. Well, are the peoples taxes and such going to come down now that they are saving money? I doubt it...just another turn of the screw to the people.

gouranga

They save money and get nearly TWICE the police force

"It’s not a money-saver"

You must have missed that part. And just because they are going to use another (larger) police force. It doesn't mean that they will all be available to the city. I will mean the county now has more area to patrol, which could mean less police in some areas.

if you anti union , pro mega billionaire people hadn't interfered we would all have union working conditions. instead we are actually debating child labor again and making less with 2 people working than we made with 1 income 60 years ago. that is not progress. if you hadn't cowed to millionaire demands we wouldn't have nafta and would have all our jobs- heck maybe we would have those moon colonies by now. yet every time you give them what they want and things get worse for the rest of us so to fix the situation you...give in to their demands again? are you crazy, stupid or a hostage? when the demands were met and things got worse why did you continue listening to them? why has labor conditions not progresses since the 30's- if they had continued to progress by now we would all be earning twice as much for half the hours.

Just another thought, how about when you consolidate and cut the veterans, for younger, cheaper, no pension plans cops, they will be under the county. Most, if not all counties in the US are run by Sheriffs, and a Sheriff has tremendous powers police cheifs' do not have. Talk about a "police" society", this is just part of the big picture, finish off all unions, then worker's have no recourse, and take away all pension plans, and consolidating power to a Sheriff, what a recipe for disaster, and corruption. Wait and see, "penny wise and pound foolish", at best.

IT would be nice to take less but cars, homes, rentals keep going up. I guess we can have more family live with us but then the real estate person gets hurt. Called trickle down to many and maximize profits for investors but they never send their kids to war.

Janet, almost half of the current force will be allowed to come aboard, minus the "union" and the remaining positions will be staffed from law enforcement personnel from other areas. In any case, they are not going to fill the positions with grocery check-out people, those they hire will meet the qualifications, and there will be twice as many law enforcement officers on the force, making for a much stronger presence. Speaking about the newly-created force "truly not knowing how to handle crimes," well, when a city has made the top 10 most dangerous cities in the country since 1998, that's 14 years, I don't think the current, unionized, overly-compensated members of this current force can say that they truly know how to handle crimes, do you?

commandercody - You are absolutely correct - and anyone that doesn't understand this is either an idiot or has been in a state of suspended animation for the last 50 years! Janet - what makes you think the folks they hire will be inexperienced or unable to handle a call??? Thosuands of ex-military police and security personnel are looking for jobs. Do you actually think that people that can do the job of a cop are rare??? Give me a break. The police of 40 years ago got 3 weeks training and were better able to protect us than what we have on the streets today. Why, because back then the mantra was protect and serve no matter what and NOT abide by union regulations on the streets. THAT is why when some nut takes over a school today you have 300 cops standing around outside with guns drawn waiting for swat and tanks instead of putting their life IMMEDIATELY on the line for our children. Sure they don't want to die or get injured, but neither do our soldiers, BUT, it's THEIR job@!! Enough said.

Seen it Michelle right in my community. Now don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for law enforcement, but, the Sherrif is more of a marshall law force to be reckond with than the home grown officers that they replaced in our town. Great guys but a different philosophy of dealing with the public.

Also, when they were enlisted to 'serve' (so to speak) the service was reduced by using less officers covering larger territories. A call by a pregnant woman at midnight concerning a prowler was answered with 'investigate and if need be call us back' - they responded withing the hour. (WEE DOGGIE)

Anti-trust-Sorry but you don't pay relocation costs for $50K/yr police officers. I pay relocation costs for anaesthesiologists, cardiothoracic surgeons, and pediatric oncologists but certainly not police officers. I am sure that anyone with a community college business degree has factored in all the variables and reached the conclusion that even if this move doesn't save money it will as the story states result in more boots on the ground. That may lower crime which can have multiple positive results when it comes to increased revenue.

This is a lot of nonsense. The current police force will either find employment elsewhere or, more probably, just be rehired at a more realistic wage and with a more realistic benefit package.

...and their Democrat patrons have wrought upon the citizenry across...<etc, blah>

This has nothing to do with political parties. As usual the election year brings the nuts out of the woods to wave a flag.

Hey JR.... You failed to mention the millions of people who lied on their loan applications and know that they couldn't afford their mortgage... this was the big reason why the load crisis happened..

I wonder how long these bargain cops will last when they find real bullets being fired at them?

Ted-803281

This is a lot of nonsense. The current police force will either find employment elsewhere or, more probably, just be rehired at a more realistic wage and with a more realistic benefit package.

This type of thinking, my friends, is called "the race to the bottom" which is one race the United States of America seems to be wining. Education-37th in the world, level of income inequality-42nd highest out of 136 countries. sarc\Let's keep on shrinking, cutting, and implementing austerity programs so that we will reach the bottom that much sooner!/sarc

some lame name

They intentionally invested in them for their clients knowing they were toxic

I don't think so. It was the sellers that knew the mortgages were bad, not the investors. Home mortages previously had a stellar investment and many placed never seriously looked to make certain the mortgages they bought were actually good or bad.

The reason the mortgages got spread was that when some of the buyers actually reviewed their purchases, they found they bought bad ones and then sold what they could before others caught on. Clearly you did not talk to banks that bought these converted securities.

Back East -- Actually most of those mortages were taken out when those people had jobs and money to pay for those long term mortages. Most of teh fault is the house flipping of the over-inflated priced homes, and overdevelopment by greedy housing developers. After that big bubble burst many people no longer had jobs to pay those mortages (Especially with the new wave of outsourcing and privatizing). Everytime you privatize a Government job, you decay the middle class pay scale downward, and make the local economy worse. Just like base closings destroy the local economy. If the pay (IE wealth) was more evenly distributed, then perhaps we could get the economy back up, and improve tax revenues, pay down our nationsl debt, etc.., but we will continue to consolidate, outsource, automate, export our jobs until very few people are working in teh USA, and they are working themselves to death because they have to do the jobs that took 3 people before. These police are being forced to abandon their union (that they joined to help their lives and work conditions) No one forced them to join. And now a bunch of beauracrats are lining their pockets while eliminating their jobs or making them low paid labor. After unions are destroyed, then they will start eliminating benefits (health, Retirement, on the job injury - like getting shot) on these people so retirement is pretty much a death sentence. Just remember in our "capitalist" society, we are reliant on a consumer based economy. But if there are no consumers since they have no decent income, then all of the dominos fall - including the corporations. Of Course some greedy people will make a killing off of that too.

Remberasha, thanks for the added info.. Yes there were many reasons why... but what I've seen on reporting TV programs, most were not putting 20% down on houses like they use to do.. People were taking out loans to pay for the down payment on a house.. people not reading their contracts and all trying to make a quick buck.... and yes, all those house flippers etc.. I was replying to someone who just wants to blame it all on corporations... but millions of people were responsible for this mess too.

People keep saying that it saves taxpayers money in the long run but their wrong. The county is picking up the tab for all the officers, and your tax dollars are still being used, plus the transition is going to cost millions up front to save money in the long run... sounds like a bright idea lol

I don't know what unions are getting big raises and all the benefits anymore. All I see are smaller raises, if any, and "give backs". Union members are paying bigger shares of their medical coverages and getting less coverage for the money. The CEO's take 6 digit raises a few months before negotiations start, then the corporate negotiators say "the company doesn't have any money".

Lets get the facts right, the Unions
mostly asked for cost of living raises, the local Governments said
no, cant afford it. Local Governments said how about you guys take
pension perks instead so we can work within our budgets right now.
Unions said they would accept 50% of cost of living rate and local
Gov still said no. Unions said well what you willing to give . Thats
how we ended up with such out of control pension benefits, Local Govs
said no to a raise, just pension perks for down the road that they
thought they could cover. Little did they think it would come back to
bite them. Unions took the offers negotiated and now we find it was a
bad deal down the road for local governments and all taxpayers. Was
not the Unions fault as they tried to negotiate in good faith. Local
Governments also though they where doing the same at the time to
control the costs. Someone didn't think the consequences trough
correctly. This is just a small synopsis of what happened, not
necessarily correct for all situations. This is mostly fact, use your
own brain to draw the ultimate conclusions as to how we got into such
a pickle. Wasn't the big bad Unions or big Gov. Was just
missmanagement and thinking on part of over zealous local Government
Officials not thinking what would happen with all the ppl living to
such a nice old age and drawing a pension at such an early age.

commander, just a little science for you if you can handle it:

Parasites do not kill the host, because then they would also die. What Parasites do, is to live off the host and take nourishment from the host while not contributing to the overall health of the host. IF you wish to use health analogies, a better one might be to use cancer, which can be cured, cut out, go into remission, OR kill the body it lives in.

I got the message Commander was tossing. FZknew is correct. Both messages are where we need to be with our thinking and policy making.

an example of social engineering. Train the masses to feel entitled then kick the chair out from under them by enpowering another class of worker with lower pay and less/no benefits. The end product will be a lower the standard of living made acceptable by virtue of necessity and serve to pare down or eliminate the middle class.

Now contrast that with the entitlement line of thought and you have a conflict. What is needed is a balance of both. Unfortunately a yo-yo only works when it goes up and down.

Did you notice the number of applicant they state they had. They can increase the job requirements until they cannot fill the jobs. People with qualification will only cut their salary requirements so far so the huge number of applications pretty much shows they are offering a very competitive salary...and the previous union salary was way out of line.

They will probably end up with a police force similar to TSA, people who abuse their little bit of power and/or do not even speak English well.

Some good questions, mochabeans!

As I read the comments--haven't read them all, don't have enough time to do that. But quite a bit of polarization going on. I think it's worth remembering that Thomas Jefferson was afraid of too much power being in the hands of any one person or group. Balance of power is the key to stability, I believe. This Fine Mess we are all in has had and continues to have various contributors. We the People need to get creative and find ways to take back our country. What is happening right now is that we are all trying to just survive--that includes the town of Camden. Whether they have chosen the best way to do that--well, we shall see. Stay tuned. I'm quite sure that things in Camden and the rest of the world will get more interesting....

Can't be any worse than what they're getting now!

After all, this greedy union police force has comandeered the city into "one of the most dangerous cities"!!

Went through a like situation back around 69. Mayor fired all Police and had County and State boys patrol while hiring a whole new police force. After 4 years all new police members voted to go Union and ended up with same situation atfer all.

As with any State, law enforcement personnel have to meet minimum standards before they can be bond-able. That includes a minimum training requirement, certifications, background checks, and psych exams. So as stated above, they aren't going to be hiring checkout baggers with a GED to fill these positions. 49% of the new police force will be staffed with current members of the police department. There are plenty of military veterans looking for work that would love a chance at being in civilian law enforcement. And who knows, maybe with almost 50% more 'boots on the ground' they can make some headway in turning Camden into a city where businesses want to be. That would certainly help turn their economy around. Besides, what they have been doing for the last 14 years hasn't worked. Obviously they need to try something new...

ItsSimple: Charles De Gaulle, when told by his advisors he couldn't fire a cabinet minister because they were indispensible, replied"The graveyards are filled with indispensible people."

“We’re concerned, we’re definitely concerned,” Camden Fraternal Order of Police President John Williamson told NBC News. “You’re going to create a police department and staff it with people who are unfamiliar with the city and say, ‘Go ahead and fight crime.’ That’s a recipe for disaster.”

Really? How's it working for the citizens of Camden with the disaster they've dealing with right now? Indispensible? Hah!

norm903...Hey Norm, you have been replaced. Hit the road, and don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on the way out.

Hey DeJay, you have been replaced. Hit the road, and don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on the way out.

i don't see their fat bastard governor doing anything except getting fatter and snarling at people. maybe the people of new jersey should push the pig out the door and find someone who can fix things.. but then again that's new jersey

Hire the last guy back, you know the one that robbed people of money and can't find it.

sunnyjim

The mayor and the city council are democrats and have been democrats for years. How is that Christie's fault that they didn't manage their tax revenues better?

Unions are the only chance at job security? Really? I have a feeling all the people who lost their jobs when the steel mills shut down because the union demands bankrupted them might not agree with you. Unions served a critical need at one time, but since then they've become concerned more with their own power and political influence than with the workers they're supposed to be protecting. Most unions are demanding salaries far above the value of the work being done, and companies across the country are being forced into bankruptcy as a result. I can't help but wonder what would happen to the unemployment statistics in this countries if the unions were eliminated, and production based companies were allowed to offer a FAIR wage and benefits that also allowed them to operate profitably.

Wolfbaby, the companies experiencing difficulty right now have nothing to do with unions. That idea is passe'. The economic problem we are experiencing now relates to the greed of the private industry on Wall Street, real estate and banking. Unions are not present in any of those areas, unless you want to focus on construction which was not the cause. Everyone is speaking out of ignorance. The lack of regulation allowed the private sector to do what it wanted outside of the the law, industry standard practices and morality.

Recently, unions have been just managing to get their employees a good middle class living with benefits. When that goes away so will the overall standard of living for our society. The greedy CEO's and Wall Street tycoons are not concerned about your kid getting to the dentist or having a doctor, just the bottom line in the short term. The longterm effects will be that companies will flounder as a result of decreased service and that will present us with an environment that will surprise all of you that believe union employees are overpaid.

bencas... read up on Boeing or Pratt & Whitney some time.. For Pratt & Whitney Aircraft.. There's a reason why PWA stands for people walking around... I can give you 100's of examples on what goes on there... and why Unions are blood suckers there. Tool makers intentionally scrap steel there to keep them in OT.. they know they can't get fired... You won't find that in a non-union shop.

Job security ? that is over now, but the times change in the world today be realistic, The unions DON't CREATE JOBS atach them like a parasits and this kind of parasits KILL THE HOST, they want part of the cake $$$ is all I'm former member from 4 diferents unions, I receibe a "good pay" but the companies because that mede their business more expensive and we need pay "dues" to the Unions from our pay checks every week plus a montly payment, the Unions Exist for "Profits" they are not free organisations. The Garbage companies in my State are under control of the unions and the mafias, they make big profits under federal proteccion (?) the State workers receive Big salaries and benefits ($ 20./h and more) just like a janitors) the ask for raise every contract but the city "can't pay" anymore (or increase taxes), so they give lay off to the new hire workers, the unions DON'T CARE. About the experience...the experience come in whit the time and is relative all the time, many "experience" workers became useless because the age, lazys and corrupts (they can't fire because the Unions protect them) At the End, Ho pay their salaries, the Employers or the Union ? this unions challenge the employers, threat the with strikes and sometime bullie. They are UPDATE, we need maybe more and better Laboral Laws, NO more corrupt unions, the destroy the incentives for the investors that is the reason they FLAY AWAY over seas !

Why not hire the Black Panthers, or maybe the Hells Angels they would do it without benefit packages? I know 10,000 immigrants from a foreign country for the same price and zero benefits. All great ideas to save our money to give to causes around the world, and also subsidies huge corporations so they can make 600 dollars for a hammer from the government. Or not to grow crops there-by manipulating the commodities markets. Unions? Where have you people been these past 50 years? Certainly not working for a living, maybe old money, or insider trading. I know someone built a business for you..

bencas - you couldn't be more wrong. Government regulations and interferance is what led to the housing crash in the first place. It was not the banks or Wall Street that created the mortgage crisis. It was our buddy Harry Reid and Congress who forced everybody to go and give mortgages to people who did not qualify for and were not financially stable enough for those loans. Congress pushed Fannie and Freddie to make a bunch of loans that otherwise would not have been approved (in the interest of 'fairness' and 'equal rights'). The banking industry, which didn't want to get stuck with all these questionable loans, packaged them up and sold them to Wall Street investors. Normally, real estate mortgage investments are very solid on Wall Street. Not so with these. And Wall Street had no idea how volatile these investments were until it was too late. We sure love to vilify Wall Street and 'Big Banking' at every opportunity - and many times they deserve it (believe me, I am not a fan of the banking industry). But they don't deserve the blame for the housing crash. That was the good ol' Congress that laid the groundwork for that freakin' mess.

independent stevo--I agree that it was the good ol' Congress that laid the groundwork for this freakin mess. Yes, Fanny and Freddie pushed the loans. But Congress is not the only one responsible. Who instituted the 'liar loans'? Also, in 1999 the Glass - Steagall act was rescinded. There are other factors that contributed to this mess also that go back before 1999.

Only read the headline huh? They aren't disbanding the police force. They are firing the current union police force and replacing it with a larger non-union police force.

Anyone wanna bet that doubling the police force does not end violent crime? Even with more officers the yare still not omnipotent and criminals will still prey upon the disarmed populace.

I read the article. If the municipal police, who know the city like their back of their hand, are unable to bring down the notoriously high crime rate then how will an expanded county police be even equally effective? Fighting the area's drug gangs takes an intimate knowledge of each neighborhood and the people within them. Scrapping the current force and replacing it with fresh blood and tasking them with policing a larger area will be highly detrimental to their effectiveness. The criminals will have a field day.

It will be a year or two before they'll all be able to respond to calls without having the look at a map.

GeekToTheBone

Excuse me, but do you actually think the "municipal police", "who know the city like the back of their hand", are any more effective than the officer of the county "Camden City" is located in? Who do you think back up the city police?

And did you actually read the article? Approximately 49% of the existing Camden City police department, more then likely the street officers (at least the non-corrupt ones) will be patrolling in a vehicle that says Camden County Police instead of Camden City Police. So, what's the difference?

GeekToTheBone

I wonder if NJ will now loosen their silly gun restrictions

It shouldn't make a bit of difference if they do or not. The supreme law of the land, the US Constitution gives them the right to protect themselves, to be secure.

Remember the nic and his crony in the DOJ said states cannot make or enforce laws independent of the US.

GeekToTheBone - What kind of geek? Obviously not the technical one. I haven't used a map in at least 6 years. It's called GPS, Google it.

Perhaps people are looking at this problem from the wrong end. What I mean is if we look at the whole process of the legal and judicial system we can see how, why, and where the crime rate actually grows instead of shrinks.

The police go out and catch a bad guy. They book him and charge him with the crimes they committed. That booking and charge sheet goes to the District Attorney who in 99% of the cases turns around and makes a plea deal. The plea deal is NEVER for admitting guilt to what they actually did. It is ALWAYS something less. So what deterrent is there to committing a crime? None. If you are going to get a bargain deal for robbery and plea down to a simple misdeamor assault or what amounts to loitering, of course crime isn't going to subside. In our touchy feely, hug everyone and sing kumbaya, political correctness society we have today, we NEVER hold people fully accountable for the acts they committ. We victimize those that have fallen prey to the shinanagans the criminal has committed by worrying more about the rights of the accused or even CONVICTED than the rights of the victim. That DA is supposed to be the champion of justice for the population, but in many cases that DA is just another extension of the Public Defender's Office. You can say what you want about the prisons being privatized and run as a for profit business all you like, but until you have PUNISHMENTS that are so harsh to BE THE DETERRENT the fear of Punishment is supposed to be, people will continue to flount and disobey the laws. Until we as a society stop hugging the criminals and making excuses for their acts (i.e. the broken home, product of their environment, abused as a kid) and start holding them 100% accountable, even if that means expanding the death penalty to include things like rape, multiple felonies (3 strikes), molestation, any murder to include those that kill via DUI, and we LIMIT the appeals process to where you don't have 30+ years of extra time before your death sentence is carried out, then you will always be behind the 8 ball when it comes to cleaning up the streets.

The LAW is supposed to be the law. The guideline by which we all live. And until you start actually "enforcing that law" you will always have an element that doesn't give a rats ass about it. You can't blame the police when clearly the problem goes well beyond those that are only responsible to "catch" the bad guy...

Will.... your're right... we have a revolving door for the trash to use.. Keep them locked up for a long time and you will see the crime rate decline. I'd rather spend money on prisions then to spend money on intitlements...

Why have cops just let the NRA members handle the police matters instead. Give every one a gun to protect themselves. Cops aren't nessary ! Well the republicans in DC is cutting funds to every thing including law inforcement that always hElps. Christie's state got 12% unimployment so maybe he can help them get police work

@ Backeast - I think it needs to go well beyond long term incarcerations. Why should the law abiding society indefinitely pay to keep some scumbag alive. I mean consider this. When a person goes to court, they are presumed innocent until proven guilty, IF it even gets to that point. 99% of the time there is a plea bargain. And that plea bargain is never plea guilty to armed robbery, it is always plea guilty to the lesser charge and we will drop the big charge of what it is you really did. Do away with plea bargains.

Also consider this. Upon conviction, the appeals process starts, and the inevitable motion for mistrials. The real question you should be asking yourself is WHERE was the appeals process for the victim? DID THEY get an appeal, or bond, or a lawyer arguing on their behalf BEFORE the crime was committed. But sure as hell the criminal gets to argue and go free while waiting on their fate, and if their lawyer is bottom feeder enough, they can wiggle em out of being punished all together. Not so for the victim. No instead they get raped, assaulted, robbed, killed or what ever the crime was, and NO ONE gives a damn about how THEIR RIGHTS were infringed on, the harm done, or even the trauma it caused. We care more about the perpetrator than the victim, and to be honest, that is a assbackwards way of looking at it.

What sickens me the most is you have a convicted murderer who is sentenced to death and you have these dumbasses standing outside the prison holding a candlelight vigil demanding they be spared. But was the victim spared? Was the victim put to death in a humane and painfree way? I sure as hell bet not. I bet their death was filled with pain, terror, and slow. It surely wasn't done in a surgical setting, with a simple shot of potassium chloride. And sure as hell there was no candlelight vigil outside the victims house demanding they be spared.

Those that are paroled and released are more than likely to reoffend. You have people with rap sheets 20-30 pages long. What purpose do they really serve in society, other than victimize more people, committ more crimes, force the need for more police, or bog down a judicial system overwhelmed to the point where justice isn't served but merely bartered over like a haggle session at the farmers market. Do you think those involved in "gangs" really care about being positive influences and offer anything tangible to society? These dregs are not role models in some Big Brothers/Big Sisters program. They are not the volunteers at the soup kitchens, nor are they the ones that gather donations for the homeless. They are the perpetrators of crime, the very cancer that plagues our society. They shouldn't be rewarded with plea deals. They should instead be shown the electric chair or the gas chamber or even a firing squad for their choice of even joining a law defying element. Choices have consequences, and in our current society there are no consequences...

Anita, because unions have become the types of entities they were created to fight. They are bloated, greedy organizations more interested in getting more and more power and money than in SERVING anyone. As is typical, they were created in a time when they were needed more than folks realize. They have served their purpose they have run their course, they fought and won and got us the livable working conditions we enjoy in the states today. However, when the battles were over, when the major work was done, they never shrank. They got bigger and bigger and bloated and bloated and to justify their need to maintain the staffing levels, they have enacted rules and laws to create more fights.

I personally lost any and all respect for unions when as a college intern, I had a union maintenance worker who was walking around not doing ANY work, file a grievance against me for carrying a keyboard from 1 cube to another. As their contract stated they moved all computer equipment. That showed me how useful unions were and their members. Our company laid off 50 union employees the next year, replaced them with 4 contract maintenance workers and guess what, the exact same amount of work got done...sort of says it all right there don't it.

Unfortunately, as unions have shrunk so have wages and living conditons. I agree that unions as they exist today are counter productive but I don't believe that government and business will protect workers conditions and wages unless there is an organized work force to advocate for themselves.

And that is exactly why so many companies have gone to contract labor for their labor force...they no longer have to pay any benefits and can have the contract workers in only when they need them. Yes, many union workers are lazy, but so are many non-union workers.

Anita, what part of laying off 267 police to bring 400 police do you not get? The move is not only economic but also more feet on the ground.

anti-trust - When the City or Corp. hire contract employees, they don't just cover the cost of the lower wage contract employee, but also part of the cost of those employees benifits, the cost of the contract companies infrastructure, the bloated salary of the executives and owners, the cost of the companies insurance and corporate lobbying of congress, and the list goes on. Then add in the profit margin of the contract company.

You'd be angry that your politicians increased the number of policemen in your city from 267 to 400+ at a similar cost?

I'd be very happy with my politicians if they managed to get me more police protection for less money.

More bodies doesn't necessarily mean more protection.

A fair argument Anti-Trust. There isn't anything in the article that indicates that the replacement police are trained as well as the current police.

On the flip side, there isn't any reason to believe they aren't as well trained. Time will tell

As one of the rarest creatures in the world - a white, middle class resident of Camden New Jersey, let me interject some thoughts here. It really matters little what we vote for or against in this City. We are, and have been under State control for decades, whether directly or indirectly. The State, whether Republican or Democrat control, uses Camden to dump incompetent 'Administrators', 'Directors', 'Managers' to whom political favors are owed. (This is of course to 'help us') This idea of a consolidated County police force is another one of these ideas - something from a 'political hack' to whom a favor is owed. The simplest way, IMHO, to help this City is one that many, not all, public unions oppose. Require municipal employees to live in the municipality that employs them.

Bingo.

Cant wait to se how fast the crime rate lowers when this takes place. Another brilliant move made by other successful states.... with lower crime rates I might add.

Most likely will drop. Just having more police cars and officers standing around will scare off criminals. They have no way to tell if the cop they see is a highly trained vet or some new hire.

Mike and Flame

can't wait to see how fast the crime rate rises when this takes place

NBC states the One of most dangerous cities in US plans to ditch police force

This is a bit misleading to say it politely. 49 murders so far in 2012 equates to 3.37 murders per 100,000 population, (Camden pop = 77,000) based on FBI Crime Index. No matter the population size of any city, that is how statistics can compare any number of cities relating to crime.

Camden is actually low on that statistic when compared to LA, Miami, Jacksonville, Fl etc

If you are interested just google Crime Index Formula by FBI

Wow! That's about as narrow minded comment as I have seen in a long time. About 5 minutes.

As a former union member for years I have the experience and perspective to make such a comment and can back it up. What's your experience?

But you helped to put those union thugs in place with your union vote, right?

Nope, never voted for them and was forced to join the union if I wanted to work.

Frank, I have been a union member for 30 years and think what you are saying is ignorant and probably a lie spoken by some white collar worker. So, you say you were forced to make more money, get vacations, get health insurance, have safe working conditions, etc. You poor sob!!

The private sector unions have outlived their usefullness and have runined more than one business. This isn't the 1930's. Unions are costing workers their jobs which reasult in them gettng no benefits. The public sector unions are going down the same path and destroying one city after another. These cities will simply go into bankruptcy, void the union contracts, and the workers will lose more than they ever gained. The taxpayers are going to stand for this shyt any longer.

No, unions made Detroit. It was when the animal grew spots and went from a collective bargaining unit to a 'for profit' corporation that the downfall of Detroit came about.

To keep their power they preached entitlement and cried oppression as a perfect smoke screen to hide their corporate greed. Make no mistake about it. The union is calling demon into the mirror that is corporate America.

No one is going to take away you guns, just the ones that are used like in Colorado. There is no need for such a gun unless we agree the revolution may come because even the Chinese are getting sick of working like a slave. Where is the middle ground?

Arizona,you sir are WRONG! The stupid people of this county and the japs destroyed Detroit and every other steel city,but that was ok go drive your piece of junk toy jap cars!

Time for the unions to go -- Obama has created a war between the rich and middle class but have the unions not done this within the middle class with the difference in wages and benefits for doing the same task? With 40% of the governement in a Union should we the taxpayer not have a say since they work for us? Lets but that on the ballot simple up or down vote for the governments unions.

No offense Jeff, but this started with the Bush administration. If you will recall, when Obama stepped in we already were in a quasi depression (crash of 2008), our school systems were garbage, we were at war due to lies, conspiracy and mass murder, our rights were trampled by the "National Defense Authorization Act", etc. Obama hasn't changed anything either. Just saying, Obama didnt create this, he is perpetuating it.

Correct the Unions have done this over time -- Over the past 25yrs the percent of unions in the private sector has decreased from 40 to 20 percent while on the government side has picked up from 20 to 40%. I guess this is due to that the government not being able to off shore like what has happen to our manufacturing.

GM is a perfect example of the Union wages and benefits crushing the company putting less into making a good car. This also has a snowball effect in that the non union made in the USA cars of Toyota, Honda, and BMW us more made in the USA componets in the construction than GM, Ford, and Chrysler do. High labor cheap made in China parts equal a poor product.

Good point. I German or Denmark I read they will take a pay cut to keep others working if needed. Of course who believes in what Europe does since Republicans bash them since they are good at bashing someone or system. We can learn from anyone or country if we listen and not think USA is center of the world. USA has become the center of big Mafia and multinationals could care less what country they maximize profits from. I am for a fair wage but believe in taxing corporations more if they take jobs overseas and abuse the environment and use people for slave labor wages. They have little patriotism and then wave the flag and never send their family members to fight for the next hot spot around the world. Personally, I would not fight for our country with this system breaking us all apart. It is spin and sound bites and pandering and corrupted that has allowed big money running our Super Bowl elections of nonsense. We can thank the Supreme Court for saying corporations are people and only going to get worse.

Skypilot: have read your posts, and once again, appreciate your broad perspective. Sadly, many are those who cannot discern basic economics from politics: finite resources with which to accomplish an infinite number of wants/needs; reconciling personnal interests from those with intersecting motives. Would be seriously impressed if same court rules that a corporation can be executed. Maybe then, will agree that corporations are people too. Let's see where the Law of Unintended Consequences takes us. Interesting ride, I'm sure.

Flame: ONLY reason USPS is hemmoraging money: Congressional unfunded mandate of prefunding health care benefits for employees who are not yet born (to the sum of $5.5 Bn/year). The money will never be used for the intended purpose, but to merely pad budget deficits. Have you noticed, postal manpower is already 30% below peak levels (and falling as we speak). Authors of this policy have had vested interests that benefit from continued disruption of long term postal operations.

Those jap cars are NOT made in the USA,they are assembled in the USA,there is a BIG difference when you make the steel here and build the car here! The jap cars are pieces pulled out of shipping containers from Japan,korea then ASSEMBLED in the USA...get your facts right before waving the American flag over the top of these imported pieces of jap junk!

Remember Pearl Harbor !! Those american soldiers came back to the USA they remembered Pearl Harbor so bought their cars

I remembered so I wouldn't buy a Foreign made car alway a Chevy or Ford . Why was it before the war Japanese only made trashy things and as soon as it was over they made the best Did the american taxpayers money pay for their factories— thought we was suppose to have won the war but looks like we lost.

True. But anyone that comes here already realizes that NBC is known for it's yellow sensationalizing journalism.

If the "news" can be twisted or convoulted, NBC will find the way. If it can't be legitimatley twisted, NBC will edit it to suit their needs and goals.

All headlines by ALL media are misleading most of the time. It is NOT just NBC. FIX NOISE is even worse, and CNN, ABC, NYP/NYT, WSJ, and on down the line all do the same thing. If you don't like what you read here, why are you here?

anti-trust proponent

NBC is by far the worst. And they are the ones stupid enough to get caught all the time.

And I come here to see what the radical left AND right spew. I NEVER said I didn't like it. YOU made that assumption.

GovtReform

The lights have already been shut off. Now they're trying to get them turned back on.

Ditto for Jersey City. I grew up in a rough area here with kids doing drugs and getting busted for all kinds of stuff. Half of them are in prison now and the other half are JC cops. Thankfully Im neither.

You are rigth ! you can't police the foxs with foxs from same pack

Umm, Minsmif, I was unaware that Pennsauken, Cherry Hill, and Collingswood were their own counties. I thought that they were municipalities, and part of Camden County. I am also intrigued by the fact that you can sit in closed bars. As for cops knowing the criminals on a first name and personal basis. It has its pros and cons. They know the community and who does what. That is invaluable. They know who belongs, who doesn't, who has a beef with whom, how they operate. The down side is that they might not be 'able' to arrest friends, and friends of friends. Since very few cops actually LIVE in Camden, I really don't think that they hang out in Camden's bars anymore.

Ist parcially correct, but if the aplicants are from low moral values, bad records werever you locate them will be a BAD PROFESSIONAL ! The city need SCREENING THEM before and every year in service ! Fire them if is necessary (but the unions don't agree with that..)

melvin... Camden is already a cesspool that cannot "fall to ruin". It passed that level years ago.

They're trying to salvage what's left before they need to bring in bulldozers.

Probably never met a doughnut you didn't like, right?

Melvin,

The Democrat political boss of South Jersey is the most powerful man(spineless) in Jersey and holds no elected office. He controls banks, newspaper and a whole lot of spineless Democrats and Republican politicians including the Governor. Camden city residents and Camden County residents are fighting this worthless plan. The state FOB and the Association of Chiefs are fighting this. Regular citizens who have no loyalty to one party or behold to unions are fighting this. Folks form Florida, Massasuchetts, North Dakota and many other places are fighting this Metro police...we are not alone.

As for the coward XDm9mm, parts of Camden city are cesspool only because of the drug markets that are well funded by outsiders from the surburbs who come in with their fancy cars to get their drugs for their friends who are to afraid to come into the city unless it's a Buffet or country music concert. Your comment of Camden being a cesspool shows me your lack of knowledge, lack of compassion and ignorance.

Oh, No! Juan threw out the "lack of compassion" remark. I guess everyone had better back right the hell off right now or be branded "not very nice"....

Strangely, where ever I have lived with so called Metro Police or Police Sheriffs, it has worked out very well and at a lower cost than municipal police. There should be no good reason why it shouldn't be so here.

Of course the local police are fighting it. They don't want to lose any wages. The problem is when you can't afford a municipal police force, you can't afford a municipal police force. Money doesn't grow on trees. You can't produce cash out of thin air and you can't just expect to raise taxes on a tax base that's barely holding on now.

I know, let's just make the mandatory minimum wage in the US $100,000 a year for everyone. That will fix everything. It must be easy to do since at least some of us doesn't seem to be worried about where the money will come from.

@XDm9mm ,you won't have to bring in the bulldozers ,the scrappers will rip out the copper pipes &scrap metal before torching it down ,why waste taxpayers money on tearing it dowm when the scuz public will do it for free ,camden is already a dump