if he had the clarity of mind to wear a gas mask, prop the door open, wear body armor and call his freaking psychiatrist then he was cognizant enough of what he was doing to stop before it started. NO INSANITY plea!!!!!

Hummmmmmmmm .... the plot thickens .... like a pea soup fog, in the bayou .... whats really there?

Yes, if hanging was an option for murderers and child molesters it would cut the crime rate somewhat but, no sympathy for the guy as some think this article is about getting to the facts. Docs don't answer the phone for patients anymore. In fact there is new technology where patients will be in front of a computer for evaluation. No real docs anymore. After all, who would want to go school 8 to 10 years, get sued, and spend every waking moment on paperwork to please the federal/state govt. or half of your earnings hiring other people to do the paperwork. If there are real docs left who want to help people, there won't be at all 10 years from now. This is a sad way for exposure of current healthcare. He should get the death penalty and so should this path of healthcare.

1. Keep the blame where it belongs (in this case). It belongs on HIM, the shooter!

2. There has to or needs to be a loop-hole for Psych's and Doc's who are aware of the danger a patient is likely to be to others to enable them to turn over any information they have about that patient to the proper authorities. This would be for the good of the patient, as well as the public.

3. Healthcare is in a sad state of affairs due to health care personnel that have taken advantage of patient's and their families, and due to some families that have wrecklessly sued healthcare professionals just because they can. It goes both ways!

Just sayin'...

This killer had planned his operation AND his defense thereafter very well. Looks like he spent all the brains he needed spend on his academic program on this, ditching the academics. What a waste of time investigating his psychology. He hoarded up all deadly weapons, did he seek his doc's help while doing that? And still did it anyway? If it turns out there wasn't anyone else involved in it, be done with it already. He's not going to be of any use for finding out facts so get rid of him first

Sometimes it pays to answer the phone, even if you are "off duty."

The sympathy on this board is stunning. That's called sarcasm. It's time to stop demonizing and ignoring the mentally ill. The more we continue to do so, the more things like this horrid massacre will happen. I pray for him and those he hurt and murdered.

Damn Joker. I guess Scarecrow,i mean Dr Jonathan Crane wasn't available.

It's time to stop demonizing and ignoring the mentally ill.

Do you feel bad for a malignant tumor that needs to be removed...?

You know, all the BS information that is being released like this is completely irrelevant. Its seriously starting to piss me off. All the other IMPORTANT information is sealed up and not available to us, you know, the masses, why? To protect the families? To protect the "suspect" (MURDERER)? To protect...US? BULLSH**!! I think everyone in this country deserves to know the truth about s*** like this, actually, correction, *everyone in this country deserves to know the truth about everything the Government does. PERIOD!! This country is beyond ridiculous when it comes to Government secrecy.

Awesome.... Now we know that the psycho tried to call his therapist before going on a murder spree... And that means... what to us?? F***ing nothing!!! Yes, this prick is semi-smart and had already planned the trial before he committed the crime, its not rocket science.. He carefully planned and performed the necessary key steps to be given the insanity plea. If he doesn't get a quick and expedited death sentence, I will have officially lost all faith in our justice system. Freak'n cops, I don't get it.. They shoot and kill unarmed people everyday out of "self defense" or whatever they want to justify it as, hell, even people running AWAY from them unarmed, they kill... Yet, here we are, a person that deserved and NEEDED to be disposed of... But nope, this crazy f**ker is a keeper, lets NOT kill him..

Can't we just call this POS a murderer already instead of a "suspect"??? Jesus.. Really? Is he a suspect Mr. Police officer? Who are the other "suspects" in this case? Hmmm, no one else outside the movie theater that night with full body armor, SWAT gear, gas masks, assualt rifles, glocks, thousands of rounds of ammo and a f***ing helmet huh?? Weird.. Well golly, I hope you have the right guy.

I really wish for ONCE, we could actually receive ACCURATE and INFORMATIVE NEWS!!!!

Comparing mentally ill human beings to malignant tumors. Nice. Kind soul that you are. Oh wait. You have no soul.

Whew.. that felt good.

Olivia, If I thought for one minute he was truly mentally ill, I would be the first to defend him. I think he is crazy like a fox. He studied psychiatric diseases..... I believe he thinks he will be able to use an insanity plea to escape prison. I suspect he thinks he will be able to cash in on this eventually with a book or a movie (or maybe this is the basis for his thesis).

Comparing mentally ill human beings to malignant tumors.

What do you call it, when 12 die and 58 get injured? A momentary lapse of reason?

Kind soul that you are. Oh wait. You have no soul.

You seem to misunderstand that most people value their lives more than their souls...

Wow Olivia.. Modern day society has you twisted. Would you still be praying for him if it was YOUR baby he shot in the face? "You pray for him".. Since you bring up prayer, Jesus Christ himself struck down the wicked, mentally ill or not, those bastards burned.. You think JC stopped to ask each person their mental wellness before burning them alive? Just saying..

Crazy or not, which is a big NOT might i add, murder is murder.

And before you attempt to attack me, there are MILLIONS of mentally and physically disabled people in the world... And those MILLIONS aren't going into theaters in a murderous rampage. I'm the first person to show sympathy and compassion to all mentally and physically challenged people, it breaks my heart to see anyone with a life altering disability.. It honestly hurts me inside. This isn't the case here.. He's definitely a sick f***, no doubt.. But its not clinically...

I just have to jump in hear and say that "tcola" is making way too many uneducated assumptions. You want him to be sane so bad so that his execution is sealed. He could be mentally ill. How can you say that he is not with what little info you have? If you are so compassionate for the mentally ill, why would you just kill the ones that commit bad deeds? And to use Jesus as your justification for this....wow. You know as little about this guy as you do Jesus.

I won't attack you. I disagree that he is faking a mental illness but you make some great points. And i commend you and others like you for truly trying to understand those less fortunate, brought to their knees by mental or physical illness. PEACE.

Coop, you have a point. Jesus would never lack compassion the infirm. NEVER. But some of what tcola says does make sense.

From what I've read about the decline in this man's life, it appears that he descended into mental instability. I recall watching the award-winning move A Beautiful Mind about the Princeton mathematician afflicted with schizophrenia. In one scene he socked his wife, trying to protect her from an invisible person threatening her. We do have a lot of mentally ill people in this society and, neglected, many will act out violently.

Mental health resources have become a joke. Psychiatrists have shifted into drug therapy and removed themselves from exploring their patients' minds. It's shameful that we don't have medical support for people with mental disorders and that so many prefer to dismiss them as pretending. Things go wrong in one's body, including the brain. It's common.

Holmes won't be executed. He'll live the rest of his life in prison or in a mental institution.

Anyone who can not see through all of this and realize that the guy was setting up an insanity defense before he committed the crime is either completely gullible and naive or just plain stupid. The guy was a neuroscience major and knew full well what to do to set up this kind of defense. He knows exactly how to act and what to say now to continue with this charade. I just hope that the judicial system sees through this obvious maneuver and denies him an insanity defense. The only thing this guy deserves is a needle in the arm.

Agreed. The dude did everything to preserve his own life, while taking others. Seems perfectly sane to me. But even if he wasn't, everything detrimental to society to this degree needs to be removed efficiently. ASAP.

It would seem that some cya is going on by the doc.... How could this guy be discharged as a patient in his mental condition?

Isn't there a law which states that if the patient is a danger to himself or others that the mental health professional must report this to the authorites so he can be committed to a psych institution for further eval and/or treatment? Isn't it also that if the patient/person being a danger to himself and or others is not reported and the patient harms himself or others that the mental health professional can be held liable too? Just asking....

Is the doc saying she did not receive the package on time, received the package but did not open it because he was supposedly no longer her patient,- thus did not know the what was in it and thus did not know the extent of this guy's mental state and that he had deteriorated to the point where he was a danger to himself and others,- until the police took it into their possession? Is she saying that she discharged him earlier that month, because he was now mentally stable and no longer needed her help?

Why was he no longer her patient? Had she discharged him to another mental health professional/practice for ongoing help? Was he discharged because he was no longer covered because he was no longer attending classes, withdrawn from his studies etc?

She stated that she did not see or talk to the patient since June 11 through July 19 thus the therapist/patient relationship had ended. Did she discharge the patient? Were appointments made but not kept by the patient during that time thus she decided to discharged the patient? Did she check to see if he was getting help from another mental health professional? Why didn't she have him committed for further psych workup if he was being uncooperative? Or did she just wash her hands of maybe a difficult patient, or did this guy who obviously needed help fall through the cracks?

It was noted he called the hosp to talk to her and sent her his journals so it appears that he may not have believed or thought or known that the relationship had ended.

It is hard to believe that someone so disturbed could have planned this sort of violent massacre in a very short space of time including buying the weapons, bullets, armour via the internet and take delivery of same, and no one knew he was as mentally disturbed as he was.

What was his psych diagnoses? What were the signs and symptoms? Was he hearing voices etc?

What he did was horrific, but one cannot help but wonder if this tragedy could not have been averted had the guy received the help that he seem to have needed, the appropiate authorities had been notified of the possibility of him harming himself and others so he could have been committed etc imo ....

A lot of things do not add up..... and a lot of cya seem to be going on imo.

To those of you spewing forth with your call to have the guy hanged, drawn and quartered, think that this could not happen to you or yours? At least he realized he had a mental health problem and sought help.... although it did not seem to work out for him as it should have... but what about that relative, that child, that neighbor, that coworker, that person on the street talking to him/herself and who is acting a little strange or being withdrawn etc? Do you know what they are thinking or going through, planning or what they might do etc? ....... Think this sort of shooting in Aurora and the one in Arizona cannot happen again? Still feeling safe are you?....LOL

We need to start taking mental illness and the mentally ill seriously again in this country like they used to do, including having psychiatric hospitals. Most of, if not all these type of hospitals have been shut down. The idea was that there would be community based mental health care instead. Unfortunately the funding for that sort of ongoing care dried up and the mentally ill have been either cast aside, forgotten or being ignored.... to our own detriment from the look of things.... and our heartlessness and non caring will be greatly rewarded with some other mentally disturbed person or persons doing the same thing again and again until we wise up about the ease of obtaining guns /building an arsenal-whatever the persons mental state- and the lack of mental health care in this country.

In the past couple of weeks in Maryland a young man verbally threatened to shoot his collegues.... the threats were taken seriously, and it was reported to the police who arrested him and he is now being psych evaled. An arsenal was found in his apartment. Also a school youngster who was bullied brought a gun to school shot one other youngster before he was disarmed and handed over to the police. The police later found that there were many unsecured guns in his home for which his father must now answer for, if I am not mistaken.....

Mental illness is a valid illness and needs to be treated with the same seriousness as cancer, heart attacks, diabetes, a fractured limb, highblood pressure etc.

Still feeling safe and secure are you with your lack of caring and brashful heartlessness at the plight of the mentally ill and others? Well think again....

Peace......

So, it's the shrink's fault.

Coop.. I am compassionate for the mentally ill or physically challenged.. I am not compassionate for murderers.. Its pretty simple. Especially on the, you know, MASS murder side of things.

I don't care if he's sane, insane, a girl, a tranny or the Easter bunny.. He killed 12 f***ing people and should be put to death. Period. The only thing I'd like sealed is the noose around his neck. God, are you really one of those types who thinks people like this could be rehabilitated or something?

For example. If a mentally disabled person attacked and killed his or her care-giver, or any other person for some reason, call it anger, call it an episode of sort, the situation would be 100% different in my mind. It would be a singular occurence, and yes I would show compassion.. However, how can you even compare the two in the sense of being compassionate for a mass murderering "mentally ill" person? Who intricately planned and executed everything down to the minute, deliberately murdering as many people as possible.. I mean, I don't know why this even needs to be explained?

I wasn't claiming to know sh** about Jesus by the way, what the hell are you even talking about? I was more or less being sarcastic about the prayer thing, but proving a point.. I don't normally reference mythical figures when stating facts, not really my thing.

Jesus Christ himself struck down the wicked, mentally ill or not, those bastards burned.. You think JC stopped to ask each person their mental wellness before burning them alive?

tcola, I'd be really fascinated to know your source for this information about Jesus "burning people alive." It certainly isn't the Bible. In the Bible he healed people and died for them. He even spared a woman caught in adultery. Some of his FOLLOWERS were burned alive and later ones burned people alive, but they were not acting according to his teachings-at least nothing I've seen written in the Bible that is attributed to him. (You did specifically say Jesus Christ and not Jewish Law. Jesus got into a lot of trouble by not following the letter of Jewish Law-he indicated that the most important commandments were the spirit of the Law-to love God with all of your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you find that awful you may consider that God said over and over again how much he wanted to bless people who loved him-it was actually to their advantage to love God because he wanted to bless them, just like in most cases it's to your advantage to love your parents because they love you and want what is best for you. Would it be better to love a stranger who couldn't care less about you or your happiness or well being? Some people who seem to consider God such a tyrant never consider that God wants people to love him because he knows what is best for them and he wants to bless them. And I don't mean that he makes life a bed of roses-I mean that he makes it better. I've tried it both ways, so I can tell you. You can go ahead and tell me it's all imaginary or a fairy tale or whatever it if it makes you feel better, but that won't change history or archaeology or any ancient manuscripts and it certainly won't change my experiences or those of thousands of other people-and I don't have to deny science to believe what I do either because the Bible isn't a science book.)

Why worry about it? He can never again be trusted to live in normal society. It's either death or life in prison for him.

Umm, reading into things much "seen too much"? Is this Sunday School? I would speak slowly to you, but its hard to type slow and get the same effect.. GOD, JESUS, MOTHER MARY, ALAH, BUDDAH, MOTHER EARTH, HOLY SPIRIT / GHOST, pick one.. I was being sarcastic.. Reread my posts, slowly this time..

I don't claim to know anything about any one of the above fictional people. I was referencing the age old tale of God (Jesus, or any other fictional person you'd like to insert here) striking down the wicked.. Thats pretty much it, end of story.

I'm not trying to convince anybody to think like me, nor knocking those who do believe otherwise.. Whatever makes a person content and happy, thats what I support. What I said is my opinion, thats all. Since you bring this up though.. All that you mention above, loving thy neighbor, parents, etc.. My inner being, common sense, upbringing, etc., tells me to do these things, not the teachings of some mysterious man, whom your told to have faith faith faith, and no fact. When you say archaeology, what exactly are you referring to? Because I'm pretty sure if there was achaeological proof of a GOD, it would probably make headlines.

You rag on me for calling it mythical, yet, you suggest what you believe is fact? There is no fact that there is a god, period. You may believe in a god and you may have faith that there is a god, but don't criticize me for having a personal opinion when all you have to back up your beliefs is here-say and stories in a book that has had hundreds of different revisions and versions over a supposed span of 6,000 years.

I'm genuinely curious to what your belief is on when God (Jesus, etc.) intervened with human life though? Being that Homo-erectus (us) having documented orgins up to 6 million years ago on this planet, at what point did God create man in his image?

Tcola87-- calm down man before you blow up.. I am on your side and get what you are saying, but wooaa not worth getting all worked up over.. You have to remember the reading comprehension of most people is significantly low on most these vines. I witnessed it earlier in another post where I stated baby died from suffocation and a few posts later on the vine I had posted to, someone said they didn't understand how baby died.. People type on here just to put their nothing in to space for others to get angry at. I don't get on the grammar police wagon though. The American language is the hardest language to learn and every few years they are changing what is appropriate for college level writing.

Back to the article, I worked in a mental health clinic for years, this isn't typical behavior of a person who is mentally ill., we would all like to think he is ill to explain his actions but I doubt anyone will find him ill, maybe a psychotic break and some other diagnosis but lifetime illness, no.. The mentally ill that i have worked with and some seriously severe cases the people would lash out at others, but didn't have the ability to think through and plan an attack to this extreme. Nutter-butter booby trapped his apartment with a complex system, stock piled rounds of ammo, and was able to map out how he was going to shoot people. My honest opinion is that he is setting himself up to look mentally ill.. Remember there is crazy, challenged, and ill in these circumstances..

We can have lapses and breaks.. My neighbor had a psychotic break after her husband died. Her children were renting her house, and refusing to pay the rent on it which covered her mortgage. She snapped dealing with his funeral, the fact they had been married for 40 years and she was having a hard time trying to figure out what to do with her own life now that he was gone. She walked in to the house, went in to a bedroom, and caught the bed on fire with her grandson in the room. She was babbling incoherently the whole time. She had never planned it out, and she loves her grandson more than life.. I was called to come over and do emergency counseling to get her rational.

Another example of long term crazy.. My aunt (i hate calling her aunt) is a Meth addict, was what we call in the ghetto a bag-bitch. She was out begging for drugs and selling her ass for dope, when someone's old lady got mad because my aunt was blowing the drug dealer behind the old ladies back. The old lady gave my aunt a hotshot (battery acid in a syringe) and it fried her brains and caused her to become crazy, it was what we call drug induce schizophrenia.. Now she hears aliens and voices of dead relatives, she would wake me up in the middle of the night to tell me to roll over because the aliens were going to abduct me because I was sleeping on my back. She is still crazy to this day and doesn't believe she needs medications because god blessed her with the ability to talk to aliens and people that aren't really here. She would sit down and have long conversations with the lamp everyday because it was my deceased uncle incarnated as a lamp.

I am doubting that Holmes is as mental as everyone portrays him. Because we can't understand his actions doesn't make him crazy, makes us thankful that we cant sympathize with someone that can kill like this.. He planned in depths, body armor, guns, trunk of a car, open door, gas, and he tried to escape.. Sorry but the dude that ate the other dudes face was more crazier than this guy..

Doctor patient relationship or not the notebook describes his plan and is therefore evidence in the case.

If he is insane it is all the more reason to execute him, no one will argue that he can be rehabilitated, no reason to waste money, food or oxygen on him.

"Compassion" in cases like this is just a naive defense of stupidity. Where's the compassion for the victims who have to watch these freaks go up for parole every ten years or so for the rest of their lives, where's the compassion for the people who have to work and pay taxes so that these freaks can be fed, sheltered and cared for?

That's the real insanity.

Try, convict, execute and get it over with so that the next one who thinks about doing something like this will know that the result is not going to be a life of leisure spent reading, watching TV and getting a college degree on the public dime.

"Do this and you die" ought to be the message we send to these butchers.

For a doctor to be under the "duty to warn" policy, you have to have a credible, imminent threat to a specific individual or individuals. The duty to warn is then to contact the likely victim and let him/her know their life may be in danger. As far as hospitalizing for being a danger to self or others: if the patient denies any intent to harm someone, they are released (usually). Breaching confidentiality is a serious matter for mental health professionals. One of the criteria we use is the nature of the relationship. Does a doctor-patient relationship exist after a patient drops out of therapy? After I close a case? I'm not sure. I don't know the laws in CO, but in some states, the privilege (i.e. keeping communications confidential) persists even after the death of the patient, much less after termination of treatment. So, in this case, the lawyers may be arguing the wrong issue.

I've seen a lot of stuff on this vine as well as media that seem to think that a seriously mentally ill person cannot plan anything, much less the extensive plans this guy made. Well, being mentally ill is not the same as mentally retarded. If, because of a delusion (irrational belief), he believed that the people at the theater were evil, a threat to himself or society or whatever, and that the police were in on the conspiracy and would try to stop him from saving the world from the evil movie goers: he is mentally ill, but could have planned and carried out the plan like he did. Not saying that this was what he was thinking, but it is a possible scenario. Do I think this guy should ever be let out of an institution? No way. Medication and therapy may control the delusional thinking, but what if he goes off his meds?

Currently, our laws on insanity are fairly strict. Whether or not Holmes will qualify is something for a court to decide since insanity is a legal concept, not a mental health one. Is this guy crazy? Most likely. Oh, and the research being done at the school he was attending had little if anything to do with mental illness. From what I've read, most of the work was on sensory stuff. So, he may not have been as knowledgeable as many of you assume.

JS in SD - I totally agree with what you are saying and that was exactly what I was thinking.

Olivia Dunham, I am with you. Don't forget that these one liners are uneducated uncaring people. They write about (using their 6 years old children) how they want to hang the guy instead of writing about how this tragedy could have been prevented and focusing on solution to prevent future tragedies. More we learn about this guy illness, we may even discover that someone knew about the plan, but didn't care. We are society where neighbors don't talk to each other and even after years don't know each other. That doesn't help. You know how many times a day I may hear, "none of your business", "none of my business"? This is what America became. Imagine if people in other countries are reading this blog, what they must be thinking about our country. These people are also confusing sympathy for the man, which I do not have, with effort of lot of people to find solution. Instead of being blinded by rage and revenge, open your eyes and you may prevent the next tragedy. Your ranting about how we should hang him, torture him, worrying how he may be sent free with free education and other nonsense, doesn't help anyone. You may also doing disservice to affected families, they may not appreciate your trolling and talking about killing someone. I even suspect that many of the families, after they find all the facts about the guy, may even forgive him. So all of you violent people get back to your cave/basement and stop ranting. I say, if you have nothing relevant to contribute, dont waste the computer ink.

BZe1... I can express my gratitude towards you for been a compation human being,and I could think exactly the same way , but not able to put in the profesional words you did ....thank you ....It does not help us kill ,hung ,imprision or whatever revenge we wanted to take against "MENTALLY ILL " if we ignore, sweep under the rug , shaming ourself (parents in this instance )WHY didn't they even consider having the child (James) stay home and supervise him sicking profesional help under your own yes (parent ) your own flesh and blood ,before you throw him into hard study ,stress and presure just to make you proud .....It doesn't matter what age, it could be 50 he still needs your help.I took my daughter off from college for two semesters due to breakdown and I folowed with her doctor appts. strictly and gave her support 100% and now she is giving back to me and society what she has ,.... normal human being .What she would have done if I showed ignorance and be ashamed of .......? I feel that was the bigest gift i ever gave to a helpless trouble soul and my own flesh and blood .People !!! stop screeming death to the trouble REACH OUT before is too late ....They are right next to you....Shame on the Doc. that for money reason suspended the treatment .....Doctor you have the blood of those people on your hands ....

Oh of course there were two of every dinosaur on noah's arc? I just can't believe that the whole earth was re-populated by noah and his son's and daughers. This sounds more like a catholic following to me.

If he tried to call a psychologist, then he knew he was in crisis.

And if he knew he was in crisis, then he knew he was capable of horrific things.

And if he knew he was capable of horrific things, then this is capital premeditated murder.

I can't see how this line of reason benefits the defense, but so much the better.

I have a great deal of respect for the study of mental illness...but I have far more trouble mustering sympathy for the murderer of twelve innocent people...including a six year-old girl.

So sue me for my inhumanity and lack of cold-hard logic in the face of this disgusting crime, but "Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity" won't, in my opinion, be justice.

Oh well, then since MSNBC published this, that changes everything. It is now psychiatrists fault.

So if you make a call to your shrink minutes before you go on a shooting spree in a crowded movie theater, you might get away with it?

Stop wasting time, money, and attention on this piece of filth and execute him. He's a danger to society, and should be removed. What a worthless human being.

bscol,

Nope. Not in my book. See my comment above. I think the defense attorney is going to a place he doesn't want to ultimately wind up.

This is going to open up a Pandora's box for his client. But like I said, that's not necessarily a bad thing considering who his client is.

This guy carefully planned the mass murder at the theater and the attempted murder at his apartment. I don't care if he is mentally ill. WHEN he is convicted of his crimes, all the mental illness should mean is a stay at a mental hospital before he's transferred to prison to serve his sentence. Mental illness shouldn't mean a free pass after a year in a hospital, he did the crime so he can do the time.

This discussion about his mental sickness is irrelevant. A killer of this kind, who also worked his apartment to make it explode, is certainly mentally sick, just like all killers are, except the ones that kill in self-defense. A sickness that has been proven dangerous enough to be eliminated completely, regardless of the cause of such sickness.

Wasn't Picasso and Vincent VanGogh mentally ill, and look at the fantastic painting that they did that fetch millions of dollars these days. Didn't they end up harming themselves in the finanal analysis?

The idea that this guy could not be mentally ill and still plan and execute what he did inspite of said mentally ill is not true. He could plan and execute the massacre in spite of and because of his mental illness odd as it may seem.

A lot of cya is going on and thus whether we find out what really happened prior to the massacre is anyone's guess.

It is possible to get his Psych treatment records if permission is obtained from the person who is now responsible for him eg a family member etc, or if he himself gives permission if I am not mistaken. If it will help in his defense then the lawyers may seek a court order to have the records opened if I am not mistaken. The records would probably show his initial reason for seeking psych help, the original initial psych assessments, diagnoses and treatment plan as well as how he was responding to therapy-medications, group or individual sessions,- and also if or when he was discharged, the final discharge report/ psych assesment from the attending psychiatrist and the psychologist/therapist and whether he needed or would need followup psych care.

The problem with these cases is that there is this bloodlust outcry by the many because of the horrific nature of the act/attack harm to others etc that brought the person into public view. Plus it is easier to just either lock him up or put him on deathrow as quickly as possible so that he will no longer be there as a reminder of our failed medical and mental health care system in this country.

Just read an article today, where a 23 y/o vet had an arguement with co-workers at the supermarket where he worked, iwent out to his car retrieved a AK-47 and another gun and shot and killed 2 other employees and himself. Per the report he was a former marine who had received various medals et between 2008-2010 for his service. It was also noted in the report that he may have a history of depression and mental illness.

Still think that mental illness does not matter, that mental illness only happen to the weak minded etc and that the other person's mental illness cannot affect your life? Think that we can lock up and or execute all mentally ill people who commit an horrific act of violence against others and themselves?

Think that these folks can be ignored forever? Think again.

While folks are debating whether the Aurora shooting suspect was mentally ill or not, thus liable for his act or not at the time he carried out that massacre, there we have another shooting and people are dead. 3 young people 23 years of age and under are dead today. Look at how many suicides have been successfully committed with the aid of a gun etc, since the begining of the year.....

Think about that.

How many have to die by their own hands, or by the hands of others before we realize that we need to have a comprehensive healthcare policy/plan in this country where folks who need help can get it before it is too late? Still think that we do not have to help each other including showing caring for our fellowman?

What if it was your child or relative that was that troubled person.... would you want him/her put down too like an unwanted animal.....

Peace...... heartlessness, selfishness, uncaring and greed will be the death of us all.....

BZe1,

I don't think many posters here are saying that mental illness "doesn't matter". I'm certainly not.

But nor do I think we've crossed the gray area between "fair justice" and "treatable illness".

A hideous crime has been committed. People are dead. Families are shattered and grief-stricken. Society has the right--in fact the duty--to exact a price for this.

The Aurora shooter didn't just "snap". His decline was gradual, his immersion measured. He tried to contact a mental health professional hours before the killing. He knew he was in crisis.

At what point do we say that he had enough control to seek help? What is the value of his right to treatment versus the victims' right to justice?

I don't have the answers to these questions. But I'm human and make no apologies for it, and as such I don't want to see him institutionalized.

Most mental illness sufferers don't commit murder. Those that do need to be scrutinized for how--or when--they could have prevented their own actions.

An individual who suffers from a psychotic illness can no more control the progression of their disorder than someone with cancer can control the progression of their disorder. The fundamental issues underlying psychosis is the fact that the individual is compelled to act in accordance with their psychotic delusional state. If they had control over it, they would not be psychotic.

That is not to say that they cannot act with planning and forethought. But the planning and forethought is in accordance with their psychosis.

Like a rabid dog? I don't think so. A rabid dog has an excuse.

This punk should be put down for his hairstyle alone.

EXACTLY!!! Eff all the BS excuses. Stop trying to get the public to feel sorry for him! Shoot him dead right NOW!

And do what?

Ok so lets blame everybody but the idiot that shot these people and ruined family lives forever, even if he does have a problem(which he doesnt) what good is he to society, Why should my dallors be wasted on this murderer. He should have already been tried , convicted and executed. And why so many public defenders? Really? He was going to school to be a doctor. The gangbanger gets A public defender.

you are right. too bad someone couldn't of talked him down before this happened. unfortunately, our messed up world is creating more and more folks like him. our legal system is a joke, and he should be put down immediately, but instead this @!$%# will drag on for at least a year or more costing us tax payers millions. time to thin the herd, come on armagedon.

Alot of these "cries for help" Were pre planned by him just like the purchasing of the weapons and the bombs in his apt. He was clearly trying to set up a defense before hand that would come out at a later time.

and if the judge grant permission to the prosecution to see the package, then maybe the truth will come out why he did what he did. I'm not absolving what he did, what he did was totally horrific, but in order to find out exactly what was wrong with him the package must be review by all. The victims and their families are owed this.

As someone with a mental illness called Bipolar, I can beep my doc off hours when struck down by the hell this illness can bring. And he always answers my page. I am very lucky to have a great doc.

Me too Olivia. I get help 24/7. But the difference is this guy is a murderer. You are focusing on him because you have issues and you should be focusing on the victims. It is a selfish thing that you are doing.

Actually, you can.

I do.

Whether the Doc here had that arrangement with her patient is a matter of the level of trust both ways between the patient and Doc.

@JB- The selfish thing is putting yourself in someone else's situation, as you seem to do here. Imagine the shoes reversed before a lecture.

I read so many comments that want this person executed without a trial, without finding out why, but if the shoes were on the other foot, or this was your family member, say a child, could you, as parents, you as mothers that born this life, stand up and say,"I want the court to KILL my child" without finding why? Look into your heart before speaking or writing a comment.

No kidding Faith C.

"Suspect" "Alleged" "Apparent". He shot people, he got caught, end of story. If he is actually insane, so what? Death penalty. If he actually knew what he was doing,so what? Death penalty. If God spoke to him, so what? Death penalty. There is absolutely no question that he did it. Who cares if he was "insane"? HE STILL DID IT.

Suspect, alleged, apparent, etc are all words the media must use. It's a liability thing.

Even when there is no doubt of guilt, the law works the same way for all. At this point, the job of the attorney(s) is to get the defendant the best (for him) outcome possible.

To blame, be anger, which is a natural human emotion, are all negative. I placed all my fears in my higher power, who sees and knows all, and seeks justice in His time. Believe me, when His justice comes, it's swift!! Plus it's a waste of energy. That energy could be put into more positive ways, don't you think???

You clearly don't comprehend mental illness. He doesn't deserve the death penalty. Life in an institution for the criminally insane but not death. It's enough torture for him to have to live with what he what he did until the day he dies. Get a heart.

Then you pay for him to live in prison or in an institution (Hey, how about your home?)...do not use my hard earned dollars for this POS to live. The death penalty is providing a 'summons' for the REAL Judge thank you very much!

Olivia...you are worried about this creep because you suffer with mental illness and you feel if you give him sympathy it somehow gets you relief. Weird. The fact is many are dead and we all need to be protected from people like this. I agree with you then he will suffer for what he did....his pain will be immense.

Olivia D ...I'm with you 100% we canot afford to be selfish in this world anymore we have to look right and left and help......

So what he is a poor victim of some terrible illness? WTF He killed 12 and destoryed countless lives. With counseling he should be good in a few years?>?> Bull- fry him like some chicken and feed him to the sharks. This is bull@!$%#. I can't believe that anyone would come to his defense on these posts.

For those who want to fry him even if he is mentally ill, please consider this. If a person is physically ill, and kills people (for example: a grand mall or heart attack while driving) you wouldn't want to direct your incivility and murderous tendencies on them, would you? (Or maybe you would. In that case, you should be incarcerated in order to protect civilized humans)

IMO, if he was cognizant and simply evil, then yes, give him the death penalty. But if he is truly ill, then he deserves to be in a mental institute for the remainder of his life. It's not as if he'll be in Promises for 28 days.

This guy's not crazy...but he's crazy like a fox. He is guilty, whether he is considered 'insane' or 'not competent to stand trial' is another story.

He deserves the death penalty; if not, then he should be required to spend the rest of his life being a test subject, so at least the medical profession (and NOT his POS 'psychotherapist') can learn something positive, and possibly be used to benefit society.

Cut his brain open and check out for chemical imbalances. great ideal

I agree, but what to do with this sort of person. He is insane but, that opens a lot of questions for debat. War is insanity but our govt. does it. Where is the line. It's ok to kill if you have the right credentials?

Roxy77, how do you compare a war to a man killing people at a theater. That is a far stretch even for a lib.

Agreed Moonbeam.

Control comes from God Moonbeam....that's the only way. This guy is as far from God as one can be. A psychiatrist is a band aid....God is a cure. The entire Bible is really a story of good vs evil....over and over.

Hey, JB...there is a book you should read. It's called "God's Lunatics".

I'll donate some advice: have a nice week playing video games and leave the law to the courts

Right on Doug. Too many gun nuts out there having a fantasy. The irony is he is wanting to kill this guy....because he hates that he is a killer.

Mark, why are you talking down health care in this country. I an 64 years old and have never had any trouble getting health care. You try to make it sound like the Doc did something wrong. Oh, I get it all doctors should always stay home incase some nut wants to call them before he kills and injuries dozens. Yelp it is without a doubt the fault of the nasty health care system in America. It is always someone else fault, only one person is responsible for this crime and you know who it is.

So health care workers aren't allowed to have a personal life...or sleep? 9 minutes before the attack was close to midnight. Are you at your job 24/7? Do you ever leave your office for any reason?

Television is the only place where a crime has been committed, investigated, tried and sentenced in 42 minutes.

And maybe he needed someone like his doctor to reasoned him out of this horrific fix. Have you ever been in a situation, maybe not as serious as this, but a situation or decision that has you fighting within yourself what to do? Most people do and when that happen, God send them to some one with a much clearer picture to help them sort it out. At any case one may never know the outcome or if it would have saved lives. No human knows the outcome of tomorrow, no one can foresee the future, we only have the past to guide us and the present to live.

And you call all of that the actions of a sane man? Really? Really?

Agreed!

If you had your way, you'd probably want to put all mentally ill people down. I have Bipolar ! Disorder but would never hurt a soul. Do I deserve to be put down? All human beings have shadow sides. Most of us are sane enough to never act on them. Holmes wasn't. But he cried for help many times. Too bad no one was listening.

Now, he can cry straight to hell!

Olivia -

Stop playing the 'I have bipolar disorder' card. You are obviously biased, and have some type of chip on your shoulder. Are you implying that if Holmes is guilty, then by association, you are too? Are you implying that Holmes should not be help accountable for his actions, thereby you should not be held accountable for your actions (because of your condition)? Are you somehow implying that his psychotherapist (yeah, thats a hoot right there) is somehow culpable? Would you like the same freedom to blame everyone else for YOUR actions, just as Holmes' attorney is attempting to do?

Do you have some inside knowledge that everyone else does not, or are your assertions simply a manifistation of your own 'condition'?

Are you aware that even mentally ill people are required to follow the law?

Chill out, and quit making excuses for this 'person'. He already has lawyers, you don't need to defend him or his actions (and by association, yourself).

Do you have some inside knowledge that everyone else does not

The answer to that question is "yes". Olivia does have inside knowledge that, quite obviously, you do not have. Olivia knows what it is like to live with a severe mental illness, and how it impacts an individual's life across all domains. She is attempting to educate you regarding the impact of mental illness. However, you are closed minded and judgemental, and engaging in willful ignorance because it is much easier than actually learning and expanding your perspective. It also provides you with a false sense of security that you could never find yourself in this position because you don't have a mental illness. YET. Check the statistics on the number of people who suffer from mental disorders in this country. You are not immune. It could stike you down at any given moment.

Ah yes, YouTube: The Encyclopedia Retardica! That's where I get all my information from. :rolls eyes:

I agree, he's not fooling anyone. I don't see him getting away with the "poor insane me" bit. He was probably going to invite her over to his pre-wired apartment for a twisted game of scrabble.

More than likely, genius, his facial expressions are due to being on heavy anti-psychotic medication, not to mention tranquilizers. I am working toward my Ph.D in Psychology and I think I know more about this than most on this board. Have some compassion and not just for those he sadly attacked, but for a young man who once had a bright future until his brain unraveled.

Olivia- While I understand alot of what you are saying- No one can blame others for not stepping in to help him- none of us know for sure that people did not help him-/or try to help him~ that he just didnt want the help- He murdered innocent people- You are lucky your Doctor will answer your call- most do not give out their numbers. Do I feel bad that he is that twisted yes- but my sympathy goes to all the people that were in that theater the ones that are still alive and have to relive this every day- to those that died- and for ALL OF THE FAMILYS that are involved in this. Its time to quit considering him a victim in this- he is not the victim.

Olivia....your comments make me think someone should keep an eye on you.

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Olivia....this situation is NOT a rewrite of 'A Beautiful Mind'; contantly focusing on your perceived 'need' to find excuses for Mr. Holmes' behavior is not healthy or prudent.

He was able to function in society for 20-some years without mishap, and at a fairly high level. He meticulously planned and executed this crime against people that were most vulnerable (do you think this was by accident?), he booby trapped his apartment, not to make things difficult for law enforcement, but to place them in a lethal situation, an possibly kill more human beings. Ever ask yourself WHY he didn't target people whom he believed wronged him - he targeted people he didn't even know. He planned and carried out of very detailed and difficult 'operation' over a long period of time, then he proceeded to BUTCHER innocent people.

There are people that attempt to find every legal loophole to excuse their criminal behavior. There are also people, who, for whatever reason, believe that these criminals deserve lenient treatment - don't forget....he is only "allegedly" mentally ill.

He needs to pay for his wrongs against our society, and you really should accept that.

Olivia.....stop defending him and his actions. He is only ALLEGEDLY mentally ill (you are, as you have so stated several times previously). You really need to start questioning your motives here. Do you feel that by minimizing HIS actions, you are somehow minimizing your own? By forcing society to accept his behavior, are you forcing society to accept and forgive everyone who is mentally ill (Holmes is only allegedly mentally ill....no excuses accepted until that is proven).

I have no idea what it is inside of you that makes you feel you need to defend him. There is no question of his guilt. There is no excuse for his behavior.

The only question here is - does society put him IN the jail, or UNDER it?

I do not understand WHY Olivia has NO RIGHTS to her opinion......Contrary opinion...maybe she is related may be she speaks form her heart not mind involved ......She has the right of expression ....

I see a lot of armchair psychologists and psychiatrists around here that no doubt did well to graduate from high school given the superficial level of understanding they are demonstrating.

We like to complicate things with our justice system and defense attorneys. We drag it on, make assumptions, excuses and send him to jail for life since he is mentally ill. Meanwhile, his victims are struggling to survive as some will be for ever debilitated until they die. Terribly unfair, sort of like war. Some things make no sense and leave us sad and confused. This sick guy is only one amongst many.

How about you let the victim's family members and the victims speak for themselves regarding their desires for justice in this situation? Did someone appoint you spokesperson for them?

Rats? We are horrified by this guy....and then you kind of throw in more sick thoughts.

He doesn't want this ... we in the public do. That's why you, and I , are commenting right now Geno. How else can we deal with it?

What, exactly, do you have to deal with regarding this situation, JB? You are not a victim, nor are you the perpetrator. YOU have virtually nothing to deal with but your own ignorance and prejudice.