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A San Diego County sheriff's deputy shot an unruly inmate who was receiving treatment at the UCSD Medical Center, police officials confirmed.
The shooting happened around 12:45 p.m. Saturday at the medical center on West Arbor Drive in the city's Hillcrest neighborhood.
Earlier in the day, deputies had transported a 45-year-old inmate from the downtown county jail to the UCSD Medical Center to receive treatment after a violent altercation with deputies.
Officials said deputies initially entered the inmate’s cell in the morning because he was non-responsive. When they went inside, the inmate allegedly attacked deputies with a dangerous weapon.
“He used that weapon, a hard object -- it was wrapped in some type of clothing material -- to strike both of the deputies in the head,” explained San Diego Police Capt. Terry McManus.
After the violent confrontation in jail, deputies subdued the inmate. He sustained injuries from the struggle and was transported to the UCSD Medical Center.
While receiving treatment in the CT scan room at the hospital, police said the inmate continued behaving violently toward deputies.
He was able to free himself from his wrist restraints and used one of the chain restraints to strike one of the deputies inside the CT scan room, officials said.
“He swung that chain material above his head in a circular motion with both hands and attacked the officers,” said McManus.
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Deputies inside the room then used their batons and Tasers in an attempt to subdue the inmate, but to no avail. They described the inmate as “violent” and “out of control.”
Officials said the inmate continued to assault deputies, then stood up and aggressively charged one of the deputies with his arms raised above his head.
Upon being rushed, the deputy feared for his life and fired his service handgun at the inmate, officials said. It is unclear how many times the inmate was shot.
The inmate – whose name has not yet been released – died at the scene, officials confirmed.
A homicide team was called to investigate the shooting.
According to officials, the deputy who shot the suspect is a seven-year member of the sheriff's department. The deputy’s name was not immediately released.
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Leave a Comment:
Seems like he tried really, really hard to get shot - just goes to show that persistence pays off.
Agreed. I'm sure those here who think that all police are corrupt all the time will see it differently, but it seems pretty obvious that this guy was working very hard to get shot. Guess he got his way.
If the article is anything even close to an accurate account of the events, I would say this was a 100% justified shooting. The police tried alternate means of restraining the prisoner including shooting him with a TASER to no avail. Since they were in the radiology suite at the hospital, not an area where they have ready access to drugs, the police were really left with no alternative. They guy was apparently out of control and attacking people and the officers were unable to subdue him by other means. While I am sure some will say it is hard to believe that a TASER did not put the guy down, I have heard of this happening, usually when the person is on drugs. This guy obviously was looking for trouble since he was at the hospital due to having attacked officers earlier in the day. He played possum by being non-responsive to get the officers to come into his cell and then attacked them. This guy obviously had some very serious issues and was out to hurt people. If the officer had not shot him the prisoner could very well have injured or killed the officer as well as hospital personnel.
Just because someone wants to get shot or hurt someone while in custody that doesn't mean they get their wish. Prisoners have to be handled carefully. No CO gets up in the morning wanting to shoot someone. It is the same as a pilot crashing his plane; very unprofessional.
C, can't hand cuff anybody in a CT scan, in this guys case maybe flex cuffs, at any rate can't have inmates beating cops with metal objects and not have the officers respond. Good for the boys in blue if the story is true as written.
You can keep immates in metal handcuffs and leg irons and get a CT scan. It depends on what you scan.
This is why inmates shouldn't have medical attention in a facility outside of the prison. I don't give a @!$%# what is wrong with them. Medical professionals as well as the general public could have been hurt by this @!$%# who likely should have been put down decades ago.
Or it could be that he mouthed off and talked shyte that got them ticked off so they beat him bad enough to send him to the ER. Then they figured maybe they don't want to deal with a brutality complaint and lawsuit and possible ruination of career, so they went ahead and killed him.
I tend to take cops' words with a grain of salt :D
Thank you Deputy for saving the taxpayers more hospital bills and incarceration.....not to mention the havoc this POS would have caused if freed.
His aggressive behavior was apparently witnessed on several occasions and across different sets of witnesses. This one sounds real straight forward to me...given the emergent circumstances, I can't fault the police for this death.
Because prisons do not have full fledge medical facilities. At best, a small clinic to handle minor stuff.
That is why they go to county hospitals to get treated for more serious illnesses and injuries.
Most probably if "Tornado Jim" had a set of plastic wrist & ankle ties (shackles) drawn tight AFTER his whirlwind act at the Prison; control would have been more effective. I don't care how crazed the SOB is or how strong he is. You can push a top over with one finger. A well placed baton strike to the throat would have gotten his attention.
When a Tazer doesn't work Lead is the next best thing and lots of it. Most of these guys aren't worth the cost of the Lead. Sounds to me like he should have been taken out at the Jail except they aren't allowed top have Weapons inside the Jail. Just think if this guy had gotten free. then the general public would be at danger because if he would attack the police then civilians would have meant nothing to him.
Metal restraints can be used during a CT scan. An MRI is the one that uses magnetic technology. As an old trauma receiving RN on the Left Coast for many years, I can tell you now that there is no lack of drugs in the jails, some of which they don't even have tests for yet. It's a constant struggle for medical and law enforcement personnel. I can further assure you that if they were going to shoot him for kicks and giggles, they won't do it in a hospital. The nurses won't cover for them.
My real question is why wasn't he sedated? Yes, he may have had a head injury, but if he was that agitated there is no way they were going to be able to do a simple xray, much less a scan, and there are drugs he could have been given that can be virtually instantly reversed if needed.
My guess, and that's all it is, is that he was seen initially by a new intern who didn't have the experience to treat someone like him while keeping everyone safe and alive. Ultimately, though, this guy chose his own destiny and having dealt with hundreds just like him I can assure you with almost complete certainty that the deputy had no choice except to do exactly what he did.
Oh, and ihateliberals, I AM a liberal. It doesn't necessarily follow that I'm inexperienced, or stupid. There are times when being a liberal is the honorable and right thing. When you're facing a homicidal maniac is not one of them.
Becareful not to jump to conclusion, the whole scenario is from the perspective of the police. It is interesting that the inmate did not attack the medical personnel operating the CT scanner but directed his attention only to the deputies. Evidently, the inmate reserved his "out of control" and "violent" behavior for the deputies.
Hmmm... This has the distinct aroma of "suicide by cop."
Unless this guy was hopped up on some kind of narcotic, which made him crazy like that, I would have to assume that he wanted to die. It appears that he did everything in his power to make that happen. However, I am surprised that the tasers had no effect. Something is very wrong with that. Aren't those things supposed to work?
I recomend leather restraints. If applied properly you aint moving
they should have shot him in the knees , them transport him to the xray room and cook him alive untill he glowed green ,phuckin POS
“He used that weapon, a hard object -- it was wrapped in some type of clothing material ...
Was the weapon a penis, wrapped in trousers?
You must lead sad, pathetic, and fearful life.
Had Enough and Retired RN -
I personally did two internships in a prison that had a state of the art hospital in addition to a clinic and dental facility. Further, my daughter (a cancer patient) has more metal hardware in her back than most people could even imagine - there ARE MRI's designed to accommodate patients like my daughter.
WhistleBerries -
My sentiments EXACTLY.
LOL
You don't get *hopped up on some kind of narcotic*....a narcotic will get you stoned & put you to sleep. It's like a really big joint w/o the munchies.
Note the root portion of the word....*narco*....same as in narcolepsy....a medical condition that makes you fall asleep.
in reply to "scar tissue" sorry some of us aren't as knowledgeable about drugs as you seem to be, but there ARE drugs that make a person act violently. PCP, Meth are just 2 of them, I'm sure there are more. For him to continue charging the police after being shot by a Taser more then once would suggest that he was "high" on something. But, more importantly, we read more and more stories about civilians being shot and killed by police. This is an extremely disturbing trend, I believe one born of outright fear and possibly not enough training in shooting to stop an assailant, not kill them. Or, maybe it's simply a cost control method, they would rather shoot to kill then shot to hurt and be faced with the medical bills.
Spoken like someone who has never done a drug in his life. I have six years as a cocaine abuser that says it was one hell of a stimulant. In fact, I became addicted to pain pills because they helped me soften the crash after coming down from the coke.
Although the police may have been forced into carrying out the defense, doesn't it occur to anyone that this inmate may have suffered from mental illness?
Its estimated that over 1/3 of prison inmates suffer from mental illness such as schizophrenia. Because the current mental health system doesn't do a very good job of helping and medicating many people with moderate to severe mental illness, many end up in prison. Because of delusions and paranoia they end up in worse and worse places within the prison system even if they were initially incarcerated for a minor crime (mostly related to acting out from mental instability).
It kind of sounds like this may be one of those cases. From this account it doesn't sound like this guy was mentally stable. And if they brought him into a hospital CT scan he may have felt threatened especially if his delusions related to police trying to read his thoughts (a common delusion among schizophrenics).
Its unfortunate that police were forced into this situation. Until the mental health system has a better solution for the mentally ill, cases like this will continue. Prison systems are not equipped to deal with the severely mentally unstable but they are forced into it when they end up there with no where else to go.
Good Job. No telling how many lives the Police may have saved, besides their own.
All the well-rehersed phrases such as "then feared for his life and fired his service weapon" are the dead give-away that they deliberately murdered a troublesome inmate. No person who has just shot someone has all the pre-rehersed well-oiled and practiced statement phrases with the magic words "feared for his life" so quickly unless it is a premeditated shooting. I believe them about as much as I'd believe Bernie Madoff. All their tasers and other things didn't work??? What a joke. Tasers instantly incapacitate anyone on whom they are used. They are a bunch of liars who deliberately used a concocted situation to murder an inmate. California is full of them. Los Angeles has a weekly video of out-of-control police throwing and beating registered nurses to the ground. San Francisco has video surveillance they couldn't destroy of a gang of thug police delibratly wrecking and destroying everything they could in a premesis when they executed a search warrant. With the videos a weekly occurance, this is a daily event. Bottom line, never ever trust a cop ever. They'll lie, cheat, steal, shake you down and take everything you have and then use all their magic practiced phrases and buzzwords to put you in jail for decades with all sorts of concocted charges. They'll plant their throw-down guns and throw-down drugs to justify all sorts of stuff including shooting you. An shining example of how handing out guns and badges to a bunch of lead spewing thrigger-pumping thugs does.
jim-4120631 you are an idiot. If the police wanted to shot the fool, they would have done it at the jail. No outside witnesses. No TASERS do not work every time. there are VIDEOS of police trying to TASER a sky high punk and it not working. Since you hate police so much, please don't bother calling 911 when you are being attacked, robbed etc. That way they can be available to those of use who really need their help. I know that there are a very small number of bad cops and unfortunately they get all the publicity. No, Jim, I am not married to or related to anyone in law enforcement nor am I a gun hating liberbal.
Wrong. Do a search. There are videos of drug crazed people shrugging off tasers like they were an annoying fly.
Did you actually read the article? If you did, you would have seen that "feared for his life" was not said by the shooter but rather by "an Official". Imagine that...a public Official that has scripted responses...where have I heard those before? I know! Any time there is a press conference!
Weekly? Really? And you're the only one to know about these videos? I did a search and found, ready for it? A grand total of one.
At the jail, they have 24/7 video. At the hospital, NONE. And you obviously did the lamest search or none at all. Both stories of the nurse assaulted and battered and the search gone wild are just from the last week. Just because YOU choose to not find them doesn't mean they aren't there. Oh, and it's now illegal to video the cops acting like thugs too. You do it in Florida, and you'll go to prison. These lead spewing trigger pumping moron thugs brag endlessly about throw-down drugs and drop guns. They can't wait to tell their friends the next story of how they just stacked planted evidence and against someone they've been stalking. I had to listen to this stuff for years. Oh yeah, if you file a complaint or report it, YOU go to the top of their hit list. I barely survived the retaliation and retribution onslaught from a collection of cops and firemen buddies who ganged up to protect themselves when I reported some of it. That was a real lesson, NEVER TRUST A COP, NOT EVER, EVER, EVER. THEY ARE LIARS, THUGS AND SCUMBAGS WHO WILL DO OR SAY ANYTHING TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR OWN ACTIONS. They have years of practice going to court and telling convincing stories to prosecutors, judges and juries. YOU HAVE NONE. They will have you in prison for the rest of your life just to protect themselves and never think twice about it. THEY HAVE NO CONSCIENCE. THEY ARE PSYCHOPATIC AND SOCIOPATHIC and get endlessly rewarded for it by you moronic fools.
jim-4120631
Wow, I think it is time to review your meds. Just saying.
Room for one more now.
That story seems a little hard to believe.
It reads like a move script.
Was he a common street thug or a political prisoner ?
What, are you having a hard time believing that someone can be violent just to be violent? He was in custody. He didn't give a damn. He was out to hurt people and he didn't care who he hurt. Getting restrained and getting Tasered didn't stop him. The man was begging for a bullet. How many more security guards was he going to have to injure after failing to be subdued by voice commands, wrist restraints, chains and a Taser before YOU'D consider him a prime candidate to be shot?
With all the drugs in a hospital why wasn't the guy shot full of Valium, Morphine, Haldol or something else instead of lead bullets?
He was probably deemed okay to go to the CT room to get imaging for the injuries he initially sustained. They don't keep a drawer full of medications in the radiology suite. If a person suddenly goes off like that beyond reason, it would takes minutes to get the meds. A lot of damage could occur in those minutes (serious injuries to the CT tech, police officers, and nurses/physicians in the vicinity).
It sounds like the officers tried other measures before the deputy feared for his life and had to use his handgun.
I get what your saying .....i thought the same while reading it....what ever happend to when cops used to wrestle there opponents down.....its like now days cops enjoi getting rushed because then they can just say the same excuse they all use ...they were scared for there lives and yet there were probably five cops on scene
Political Prisoner? Those folks usually end up in GITMO or renditioned to the great beyond.
wonderful9845 -"With all the drugs in a hospital why wasn't the guy shot full of Valium, Morphine, Haldol or something else instead of lead bullets?"
Because if the police or hospital staff injected him with any type of drug the City would be paying a
$70 million lawsuit settlement....to this scumbag!!
"A CLIP FULL OF HOLLOW POINTS....$13.49 & NO COURT COSTS!!!"
THANK YOOOUUUU OFFICER!!!! EXCELLENT JOB!!!
Why would you pump pain medications to a immate that is violent? (valium, morphine) There is nothing in the article that indicated that he was in pain and it sure is not the right medications for that incident. It's like saying give the guy stool softener just because he has a ankle sprain.
As a Emergency RN, we deal with numerous drunks, immates, car accidents, DWI, drug addicts, psych patients, etc. Patients who are being escorted with police and in handcuffs with leg irons are a common sight here in the large county hospital. And yes, there are many drugs available in the hospital and the norm over here where I work is Haldol 5mg and Ativan 2mg to sediate the patient. And depending on the patient's drug history, it might take a while before it kicks in. May take 5 to 40 mins. I once took care of a patient and 2 doses that barely fazed him.
You really think any of the medical staff will go near that immate to give him his meds especially if he is swing around that metal handcuffs with metal chain attached to it like a dangerous weapon? Sorry but no one willing to get severely injuried to be put in a hospital and loss of work hrs just because some violent immate will not listen.
And from experience.... 2 of our staff gotten injuried last year by violent patients. One of them dislocated his shoulder and was out for a month. Ended up getting let go because he couldn't do most of his tasks.
If you go around and ignore police officer's warnings and continue to attack them..... you deserve the consequences.
Hey, I've worked ER many times. People come in totally nuts and strong as bulls, and even if you sedate them they can keep going if the drugs are just right. I had a guy come in and the police handcuffed him to the stretcher. While we worked on him he seemed to calm down, so the officer stepped back a little to give us room. The guy (big strong guy anyway) came off the table all of a sudden and just pulled the stretcher behind him coming after us with anything he could pick up. Luckily the officer grabbed him just as he started to swing the whole table around at three of us. He was picking it up with that one hand still cuffed to it...amazing. We were trying to get his restraints fastened and he seemed to be passing out from the big drug dose the doc had to give him, but suddenly came back to life and went nuts.
So yes, I can see that happening, and I would bet you that the ER staff was pretty happy they lived to tell the story. I wouldn't assume that the officers did anything inappropriate unless some other facts come out. And yes, if someone is psychotic or high or enraged s/he can take on several officers, even with sticks and tasers. It's amazing what adrenaline will do, and then add whatever else was going on and I can see that happening.
And those of you complaining about police bullying, while I know it happens, if that man hadn't been subdued you would be complaining that they let him hurt innocent people.
March, you bonehead - he was a common thug - now dead thug.
If this account seems surreal to you, perhaps you need to spend a few hours observing in some of the ER I worked in. It just sounds like a pretty normal day to me.
ram...I had a guy in eight way leathers one night who rocked his Stryker Surgibed....and this model weighed several hundred pounds...up on end and walked out with it. I opened the door for him. The police found him something like 15 blocks away, still strapped to it. They rolled him back, and asked if I'd lost something. I told them when he stood it up on end, I gave it to him.
Could I have stopped him?Probably. Could it have happened without a lot of folks getting hurt?Nope. Wasn't worth the risk.
When I had my scan done they strapped my arms down stretched tight over my head. I couldn't have moved if I wanted to.
Good thing it happen at a hospital..most times people think the police delay calls for the ones they shot to get medical aid..no excuse here.
I mean really,, and Yes I notice I misspelled movie with move. But seriously , Pick that story apart and tell me that entire scenario makes any sense. Lets assume he was not yet unshackled for is CT. Wearing metal at a CT ?? Really ? Whats the first thing they say? . The swinging a metal chain after slipping his restraints, After already having previous assaults and I am to believe he was calm enough for medical treatment ? The Jails do not provide treatment right away for inmates. They must display compliant behavior first. According to this story . He was not and they knew he was not, It makes 0 Sense. And even after Tasers and batons he got up again .. Like a monster ..... I'd like to hear from an impartial witness.
Given how dangerous he was and how many injuries he'd instilled on other people, they would've waited until the last minute to free him from his metal restraints; you CAN go in to a CT room with metal, but it must absolutely be cleared out by the time the CT machine starts up. And I doubt very much that the hospital staff wanted to put themselves in danger by saying, "Oh, no, we'll have to take those off him now."
And who says he WAS calm enough for medical treatment, anyway? Where does it say in that article that he passively agreed to be taken to the hospital and that, at no time during that journey, he wasn't being belligerent or forceful towards those holding him? As a matter of course, they would've had to take an injured prisoner in for treatment or else be accused of neglect. Then, hello, lawyers! So he might've been compliant after being injured, but once freedom was at hand and all that stood between him and freedom were a few rent-a-cops, it would've been very easy to see how such a violent man would notch up his violent tendencies.
There are those on this planet, believe it or not, with no consideration for others and who will act out in whatever way they want to, when they want to.
MRI's are where you can have no metal. CTs are used all the time for those who have metal implants.
Metal can be worn in a CT scan, true, but it can also affect the image being produced--hence the reason it's usually taken off beforehand. It's not a matter of magnetic issues, it's about the quality of the scan.
That is where plastic ties come in handy. You can truss up an man so that he can't breath. Me thinks some incompetence manifests itself here.
I'm assuming he is getting his head/neck CT scan. It may effect the quality of scan IF he is wearing piercings, earrings, tongue rings, necklace, etc..... because it's around his head and neck. More likely he has handcuffs and leg restraints. It will not effect his quality of his CT scans because he is not getting his extremities scanned. But what do I know.... I'm just a ER RN.
Methinks you have no clue since you weren't there, C. It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback when you don't have some crazed guy coming at you and you are responsible for the safety of everyone, including yourself.
What I think is odd about this story is that it never says how many officers were in the room with him. Just "officers" and "deputies". 2? 6?
And what I think is that all of you folks with questions need to follow a trauma center ER nurse around for a shift, just one shift, and it doesn't even have to be a weekend. I can guarantee that it will change you life.
Every day is just another increment on the bell curve of life.
Seems like the man had a death wish, and it was fulfilled.
Thanks to the deputy for ridding the world of another worthless criminal.
Yup.
I'm not saying he wasn't violent or that they didn't have to shoot. I am saying that story seems a little hard to believe . I am asking , What was he originally sent to prison for and all that. I'm Not bleeding heart, Maybe he did need a shooting. But that story reads a little embellished to say the least.
March, you have obviously never been in an ER in the early morning hours - half the people who show up are on uppers, downers or both. Those in ploice custody are most dangerous because at their first chance, they will often try to run - even with IVs and other medical equipment trailing behind them. They can very often cause additional injuries to people being treated. Pull your head out of rectal defilade so yuor brain can get some air.
Not to me, it doesn't. As I said above, I've seen worse, much worse, more times than I can count. Those of you who've never been there have no clue, none at all, and if you're fortunate you ever will.
March:: What difference does it make what he was in prison for? He was in prison because he wasn't very nice for some reason. And if he was able to have visitors, one of those visitors could very well have handed him some pills that affected him. And YES, that happens.
I believe it. I work at the state mental hospital I see this suff on a regular basis.
What were the charges --- what did this anonymous "inmate" get charged with - to be incarcerated in the first place?
Many of you assume "way too much", there are any number of charges, sentences which would have him in jail. It might have been that he was originally arrested on a mental health charge - was placed into custody and not allowed his medications?
So of the Medicated Citizens are well aware of their own conditions - and can be very adamant about getting their medication on a regular schedule.
Correctional officers are notorious about working on their "own" pace and more often then not - will not give medications if it suits them or if they are "teaching a lesson" to an inmate.
this instant condemnation of the dead inmate, plus the assumption that he"must" be wrong, or the cop would not have shot him... does nt fit well established prior reports of corrupt PD's - all over the country. You assume that he was a fool, trying to get shot... Its just as possible that he was well aware of the potential of getting sot, but he had no other way of getting attention, and getting his medications. After all - it was noted that he offered no violence to medical personnel ... until the officers injected themselves into the procedure. It would be worthwhile to talk to the medical people - without the cops around?
One Flew over the Cokcoo's nest ... was a true story... its possible!
good job sdso. one less career criminal the tax payers have to support.
They only shot one?
It is amazing the responses against the Police!. You people think that police officers need to lay down their life in order to subdue these Jackasses and menaces to society!. Tell em once and shoot em as the mad Dogs they are!. Just watch a special on the violent section in Pelican Bay prison, Ridiculous, A Nice lobster Dinner with wine for all of them laced with Poison and collect the bodies in the morning!. My God!, Enough is enough!
county jails should only be one cell. put the first crook in and when the second one is arrested shoot the first one so u have room for the second crook. crime would cease
lets hope the deputy that did the shooting is not arrested for some trumped up charge..........
LOL Joe I love that solution. Do you think they will bring it in?
Best idea in years. LMAO.
GCBlaze:: I guess my choice of TV shows is strange. I am a senior citizen and I watch "Lockup". I have seen the violence at Pelican Bay on that program-- and violence in many other prisons, from New Mexico to Alaska. Boy those guys can get MEAN!
How very unprofessional. Lots of idiots get unrully in jail. Seldom does it result in corrections personell getting hurt and even more rare does it come to having to shoot a prisoner. These people sound like they should be trained or fired.
go work in a jail or prison moakler, u must live in a cave or somwhere that u only see good. u libs amaze me. been there done that.
Yeah, I can't imagine that this guy couldn't be controlled with a taser. The human body can only take so much electricity. Sounds to me like this officer was tired of dealing with this guy.
They were well trained and they fired accurately.
I've seen tasers do nothing but make them worse. If the drug cocktail they have on board is bad enough, the only thing that will stop them is a bullet. Again, if you haven't been there, don't pass judgement because you have no clue.
C. Moakler:: Watch the series "Lockup" on TV and you will learn that your idea of prisoners is wrong. Some MALE guards have gotten whupped by an enraged prisoner-- and usually over nothing but the prisoner didn't like the sandwich.
When the prisoner is inside the prison, the team that is trained to handle a strung-out prisoner can respond and still be available if they are called again. They do not go to the hospital with a prisoner and leave the prison without their SWAT team.
As I said, watch "Lockup". It is NOT a Hollywood TV series. The crew goes to the various prisons and film the happenings. And you might learn something.
Killer Kops shoot unarmed man.
The inmate was not unarmed. He attacked two guards with a 'hard object wrapped in cloth', then at the hospital he used a chain restraining device to attack two other deputies. Maybe YOU should have volunteered to have the inmate stay at YOUR HOUSE, rather than at the jail.
Read the story, he was armed. sheesh! Don't people read before they comment? Or can't comprehend.
Troll makes stupid comment.
Killer Kop shoots unarmed man.
you've probably been to jail, only ex cons or idiot criminals make comments like you.
You John are a idiot, maybe you could volunteer to house a felon. Glad he's gone, 1 less we have to pay for 18,999,999 to go.
Hmm...cause and effect...
Law enforcement officers do not get the good recognition they deserve. Every day they go to work is like
being in the military. You never know what is going to happen from one minute until the next. It can be
boring and slow and then all hell breaks loose and you are expected to react in a prescribed manner under
extraordinary conditions. This time in a hospital full of patients and hospital staff. They thought they were
helping this prisoner and he explodes again. An event they will live with forever, wondering if something
else could be done. Good job.
It's called hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. And frankly, thank God the deputy stepped up to the plate before someone on the hospital staff got killed.
I agree, I imagine at the point that the prisonor picked up the shank and tried to use it the officers focus changed to trying to protect the hospital staff as well as subdue the prisinor.
Those officers did a good job. Killing someone is a terrible enough burden and I hope the deputy doesn't suffer any repercussions legally or in his career.
If they were able to subdue him in the cell with the first outburst of violence, why not at the hospital?? And even if they had to shoot, why to kill and not to maim?? I support the officers right to self-protection, but deadly force should be the last resort.
Having worked in a prison which housed dangerous (close security) violent inmates I can help answer your question factsplease. Inside the jail/prison there is a locker of equipment which helps subdue a violent inmate, in addition there is usually a well trained 'beefy' crisis team which subdue an inmate with an appropiate amount of force, I would remind you the most jails/prisons video-record the extraction or confrontation, to keep accountable. When an inmate is transported this is usually done by different staff members, often due to budget cuts and low staffing two deputies are sent to the hospital. Overtime pay is also an issue, you never know how long you will be at the hospital and if the doctors will release the inmate back to the prison. If an inmate decides to "nut up" a hospital is a very dangerous place for the public, the chance of escape is much greater than at the jail/prison. If an inmate escapes and commits crimes (car-jacking, robbery, murder, rape..it happens) the city or state is the liable. Escape is the worst thing to go on your file (as an employee, from the warden to the officers involved).
Some understandable points, thank you. However, 'shoot to kill before he escapes' is a little out there. Your record/file is more important than his life?
Video-recording at the cell makes for a more reasonable and understandable point, obviously.
The prime concern of the deputies was undoubtedly not their personnel file, but the safety of the general public, including hospital staff and other patients. A violent felon, in a building full of potential weapons, as well as unsuspecting patients of all ages, poses a grave danger. He simply cannot be allowed to escape custody in those circumstances. And in this case, he was attacking the deputies with a weapon, and could potentially gain control of the officer's handgun. Once the prisoner broke loose, the outcome was unavoidable.
I wanted to make sure so I went back and re-read the article...I didn't find where the 'inmate' was a convicted "felon". Maybe I missed it. Again, stopping the guy was obviously the thing to do, but was killing him the way to do it?
deadly force should be the first response tree hugger. Kill all the criminals instead of letting them go, and we wouldn't have 19 million incarcerated. I wouldn't be wasting my tax dollars on free college courses for inmates.
He was a felon the minute he struck the officers at the county jail. whether a court had judged it is trivial. thanks to the police officers now tax payers won't have to house this piece of crap
It doesn't matter if he was a convicted felon or not. He already attacked the deputies.
And what do you recommend they should have done? I bet the CT room is small and not much to move around especially a violent immate swinging around metal chain restraints. Call for backup? In my hospital, we can press the red button and security will be there in 3-5 mins. Still a long time with that violent immate. Plenty of time for the immate to grab the gun and start a shooting rampage in the ER.
Really what do you recommend?
My only point and area of concern here (again) is that if the officers had time to draw and shoot, that the shot, if at all possible, should be to control, maim, subdue the offender, deadly force being the last resort.
No, I do not value the inmate's life "above" the other people at the hospital.
Too bad you were busy in your parents basement and weren't there to help.
Factspleasee, maybe it was the LAST RESORT!! Would you feel the same if you and your family were in that situation instead of the police?!!
As far as shooting to subdue. No matter whether you work in law enforcement or are in the military. They are all taught that, if forced to use lethal force, aim for the targets center of mass and shoot to kill. Ignore all the movies and hollywood trick shots to maim, they are impossible on a moving target, especially when hyped up on adrenaline. In close quarters you have no time to aim.
Also, if a taser won't take a person down, neither will a shot to maim.
That's right! Shoot to maim! That way the criminal can sue and we can pay for his stupidity! <sarc>
Good riddance to bad rubbish. I'm sure the appologists are going nuts preferring some additional docile methods to neutalize this pos. I'm also certain, had he been treated and returned to his "normal" world, he would continue posing a risk to guards and, perhaps , fellow inmates. Better to simply be rid of him.
The media will make the cop look like the bad guy and if they aren't successful, the lawyers will. it is never the insane criminal who is at fault in a case like this.
The criminal (insane??) is obviosuly at fault here. My only area of concern is the degree of force used (deadly). Was it necessary to kill him?
Nothing else seemed to stop him.
Yes, dear, it was necessary. Had it not been, he would still be alive.
Maybe there should be a handbook or something given to convicted felons, advising them that attacking the deputies is a bad idea. For most of us, it seems unnecessary, like the warning on your blow dryer not to take it into the shower, but some of these guys just don't seem to understand this.
I wanted to make sure so I went back and re-read the article...I didn't find where the 'inmate' was a "convicted felon". Maybe I missed it. Again, stopping the guy was obviously the thing to do, but was killing him the way to do it?
Bad idea to attack a cop, yes. Bad idea to upset one, yes. Good idea to kill a prisoner when other options are available.....no.
And what other options are available? You might want to re-read the article again because all other avaible options was used.
Nice to know you value the violent immate's life over police, deputies, hospital staff, sick patients thats over there, doctors, patient's visiting family, nurses, etc.
Can't imagine if that violent immate overtook the deputies and got hold of that gun.
My only point and area of concern here (again) is that if the officers had time to draw and shoot, that the shot, if at all possible, should be to control, maim, subdue the offender, deadly force being the last resort.
No, I do not value the inmate's life "above" the other people at the hospital.
What other option? How about the one they used at the cell with the first violent outburst? How about a shot to the knee?
I like this story, it had suspense and a happy ending. Cheered me up.
Police are trained to shoot to kill. Attempting to shoot to maim is dangerous for everyone. You aim at the largest part of the body, the torso, and that usually is a fatal shot.
factsplease:: Tou asked about the option they used at the cell? Bet there werefive or six guards in on that when it happened in his cell. No prison can send five or six guards out like that-- and no hospital would want five or six guards IN RIOT GEAR marching into the hospital. Riot gear with shields and guns-- and not handguns.
Watch "Lockup" and maybe you can learn something.
No, I'm not a guard, but I watch "Lockup".
The officers also had time to use a baton and a taser with no effect. Deadly force was the last resort. What did you want the deputies to do? Talk to the crazied immate? Maybe get some silly string and shoot at them? Maybe a gun with rubber bullets or maybe a water cannon to shoot him non-lethal ways?
You are talking about a incident that happened at a prison where there is just security guards and immates only. They have numerous guards that can quickly respond to any situation fairly quickly and comparing to a county civilian hospital. You know, a emergency room that also has civilian law biding patients that also get care. Normally there is just 1 security guard/sapd assigned to 1 immate. Rarely assigned 2 deputies to this immate. You can't expect exact results that happened at a prison to what happened at the hospital.
Maybe you been watching too much tv, a moving violent target is very hard to hit, especially the knees. And also a CT scan room is mildly dimmed lights. So a dark room, moving target and dangerous. Good luck trying to shoot his knees on the first try before he assaults you too. Go to a local range and rent out a gun and shoot a stationary target at a bright lit area. Pretty hard to shoot a bulleye eh? What makes you think a deputy will able to shoot that with the conditions above?
The proper response would have been to step back out of the heavily shielded CT room and close the heavily shielded door, trapping the disturbed person inside. Then at their leisure, hospital personnel could pump anesthetic gas into the room to subdue the person without causing or suffering injuries. Of course that would require a reasonable person to be in charge and not a low IQ trigger happy killer kop.
Not faulting the deputies at all here but why was an officer carrying a gun around a lightly restrained violent felon brought to the hospital because he got beat up fighting a couple of prison guards. Somebody made a mistake. The guy should have been hog tied.
Gee....... maybe because the immate is a felon? What do you recommend deputies and police to carry? Silly string and a whistle?
I guess you don't under stand sarcasm. A guy like this should be transported chained in a cage surrounded by by a team of guards with stun guns. Gee...... maybe the guards were a little under armed?
Totally agree. But that's incredibly expensive, and right now everyone wants to CUT police budgets.
All you people second guessing, why don't you volunteer your services since you think it's so easy. These people put their lives on the line dealing with human garbage every single day, yet you want to cut their pay, reduce their benefits, and tell them how YOU think it should have been done. You don't have a clue what goes on outside of your cushy lazy boys and your 9-5 jobs.
bla bla bla
You r a cop who shot a man on a hospital bed. What do you do? LIE. That is what they do to protect themselves. People tend to believe police over an inmate so why not. Can you even entertain the thought that police lie? You people are pathetic. The fact that you cheer murder sends chills through my spine. I cannot believe you call yourselves a civilized society.
You or someone in your family, probably multiple members, had a run in with the law and no matter what they do now, you dislike them. Get your education and rise above.
Ignorant career criminals breed little career criminals.
RDHammonds and Richard-2714364 First of all, I have more family members work for law enforcement than your family tree has civilized people. Second, we are all educated and CIVILIZED. We do not love to see blood, and we do not feed on people's misery. I just love that I am standing up for what is right even though it is not popular with blood suckers like yourselves.
Far too many witnesses, and he wasn't in a bed. He was in the CT suite, where he could not be properly restrained. The deputy could have easily shot him in the parking lot where there would have been few if any witnesses if that had been his agenda. Grow up.
Santa Clara:: So you have family members who are in law enforcement? Meter Maids? Animal Control officers?
You don't love to see blood? Gee whilikers. What do you think would have happened if the prisoner had gotten loose and whupped the officers? But that would have been OK by your way of thinking-- it wouldn't be the prisoner's blood.
Hey santa, try working in a jail- I did for 3 years, nothing but wall to wall POS. It's not murder,it's mercy.
You still don't want blood on your hands. Many of those POS's are there because of that same reason. They ended someone's life. It is becoming a dangerous trend where police just shoots a person, and not as a last resort or in self defense. It is because people are giving them the green light and not holding them responsible for murdering citizens. You will wake up one day and it will be someone you know. If you do not stand up now then your chances are slim that anyone would stand up for you later.
Santa Clara:: I don't need anyone to stand up for me. I am NOT a prisoner and I will not try to take on a prison guard in battle.
Why don't you take the place of one of your family members who is in law enforcement? Oh, you don't like walking a beat and ticketing vehicles for overparking?
I've seen inmate/patients tasered twice with no effect at all. If they are totally out of control no nursing staff will be able to get close enough to administer the meds listed aboce (Haldol, Ativan, etc).......giving it intramuscularly or "IM" will take up to an hour to work and no one could get close enough to give it IV. These out of control patients (whether they are inmates, overdoses, attempted suicides, depressions) sometimes have the strength of 8 large men and can fling security or police across the room with no problem at all.......it is as if they have super-human strength. You can have some metal in CT, depending on what is being scanned and where the metal is. The officer not only protected his own life, but that of the hospital staff, other patients, visitors, physicians, and many others. Sorry this guy died but he was given several chances from the sound of the article.
...yup, from the sound of the article....
All YOU IDIOTS who are so concerned about the LOW LIFE SCUMBAG must be either EX CONS or you or a family member had a RUN IN WITH THE LAW or maybe just RETARDED!!
I think you have that one right, model. Ex cons or the as-yet-not-apprehended lifelong criminals would be my guess too. I wonder if they would like to take the "out of control" criminal lunatics into their home instead of having the police deal with them. The police could call them day or night, give them the location, and they could come down and ease the crazy criminal out of there bloodlessly and give them 3 hots and a cot at THEIR house. Can't we all just get along?" (no).