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Michelle Rossitch
Army veteran Luis Zaragoza, 28, with his service dog Cheyenne. Zaragoza did two tours of duty in Iraq, and suffers PTSD.
The Department of Veterans Affairs will cover the costs of service dogs to help veterans with impaired vision, hearing or mobility, but will not cover canines assigned for mental disabilities, according to regulations published on Wednesday in the Federal Register.
The VA said that despite many individual veterans’ testimonials that mental health service dogs provide relief from the symptoms of combat-related disabilities such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), it lacked research substantiating the efficacy of mental health service dogs.
"VA has not yet been able to determine that these dogs provide a medical benefit to veterans with mental illness," the department said. "Until such a determination can be made, VA cannot justify providing benefits for mental health service dogs."
To be defined as a "service dog" the animal has to be trained to do specific tasks for a person — such as picking things up, guiding them or providing balance.
Trainers say that for veterans suffering mental disabilities such as PTSD or Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), dogs can be trained to help avert panic attacks and wake them up as they enter a nightmare. The animals can be taught to remind veterans to take medications and alert them if they have left a burner lit on the stove.
Luis Zaragoza, 28, who suffers PTSD from his service in the Iraq war, says he's experienced more progress in a month with his service dog, Cheyenne, than in all the years visiting the VA since his discharge in 2004.
"For eight years I was just in limbo, but now I’m seeing glimpses of the old me — the me I was before I joined the military," he said of the service-dog program.
The program, designed by Illinois-based nonprofit This Able Veteran, paired Zaragoza with the dog and a therapist. The dog is there to help the veteran re-enter mainstream life at intervals recommended and monitored by the therapist.
In Zaragoza's case, the dog is trained to detect a tic — Zaragoza’s leg begins to shake — at the onset of a panic attack, and divert the veteran’s attention by bumping his leg. Cheyenne will do this a second time — more insistently — if Zaragoza fails to respond the first time. This happens up to five times a day, said Zaragoza, who lost nine soldiers in his company during two bruising stints in Fallujah and Ramadi, Iraq.
The veteran says he is regaining his ability to get out of the house and do things — like go to the shopping mall — that he has avoided because of the anxiety and hyper vigilance that is common to combat-related PTSD. Zaragoza says he sleeps more, functions better in the day, and interacts with more with other people rather than choosing to isolate himself. He’s lost 15 pounds because he is more active.
That was progress he had not seen despite years of visiting VA psychiatrists and doctors who prescribed medications for his PTSD symptoms.
"At the VA, what they tend to do is pump you with medicine," he said. "That’s not a solution to any issue like PTSD or anxiety. They just kind of numb you. I knew that wasn’t the right choice for me. I was looking for an alternative."
But Zaragoza’s opportunity remains relatively rare and unaffordable for many veterans.
The cost of providing custom-trained Cheyenne was about $20,000 said Behesha Doan, president of This Able Veteran. The costs — for training, as well as Zaragoza’s travel expenses, veterinary bills, and equipment — were funded by private donations. Zaragoza was one of six veterans assigned a PTSD dogs by the nonprofit.
But he is disappointed that the VA won’t pick up the bill so that more veterans can get this kind of assistance.
As an employee of U.S. Fish and Wildlife in Chicago, he is able to handle the cost of maintaining Cheyenne — things like food, kennels for work, home and cars, and vet bills. Even these costs would challenge many fellow combat veterans, he said.
"There are other veterans who can’t go to school or hold a job because their PTSD is so bad," said Zaragoza. "A lot of these guys live on $600 a month."
Stories like Zaragoza’s prompted members of Congress to push for the VA to provide more canine assistance to veterans, and recommended more research to explore how dogs might best help veterans suffering two of the most common mental disabilities from combat in Iraq and Afghanistan — PTSD and TBI.
As NBC News' Rebecca Ruiz reported in August, a team of epidemiologists, mental health providers, veterinarians and other experts were conducting a study at the Veterans Hospital in Tampa, Fla. Proponents were eager for the three-year study to deliver data to demonstrate benefits and help create a framework for training mental disability service dogs.
But the research was temporarily suspended from January to June after a young girl was bitten by a dog. VA declined to be interviewed about the study, but told Ruiz that the project resumed after it increased monitoring through phone calls and home visits by the researchers and service dog providers.
Training PTSD dogs is tricky because the illness ranges from very manageable to very severe, according to Corey Hudson, President of the North American chapter of Assistance Dogs International, a coalition of not for profit organizations that train and place canines worldwide. "You have to be careful what you’re getting into, and make sure you are qualified to train a dog for that situation," he said.
He said that his understanding was that the VA wanted the results from the PTSD service dog research to show what was effective before making a decision on benefits.
Doan, of This Able Veteran, said continued research, properly done, could help the VA set standards, and weed out service dog providers which have proliferated in the last few years. She stresses that pairing dogs and veterans without careful screening and training poses risks to both, and could just be a waste of resources.
"In order for this to be taken seriously, we’ve got to show that we have considered all the aspects of what could potentially go wrong and maintain all the efficacy of what goes right," she said.
She is hoping that the VA, in its decision not to cover PTSD dogs is merely taking a cautious, go-slow approach, not ruling out benefits for the future or merely dragging its feet.
"If it’s done right we’ve got a helluva program going on," she said. "If it’s not, you’ve got Joe Bag-a-donuts out there grabbing some dog off the street and calling it a PTSD dog."
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Those with PTSD don't need a specially trained dog. They can go to a local shelter get a dog and have a wonderful companion that they can spend their time training and loving. Amazing how PTSD has become the newest fad, not being disrespectful to those who serve our country but everyone doesn't have PTSD and many current military members agree.
They can get money, for life, for being diagnosed with PTSD.
are you a veteran
Obviously MarilynMD doesn't know anything about dogs, much less PTSD. "Any" dog from a shelter can't be successfully "picked" by someone with illnesses such as IBT & PTSD.
See the amount of animals in shelters today shows that you're in the majority, unfortunately.
Hopefully, idiots like you aren't on the panel that judges rather or not these dogs would be worth paying for.
So all the veterans committing suicide are just jumping on board the latest fad?
PTSD is a real issue, whether or not it's convenient or inexpensive for us as a nation to deal with.
I have to wonder if simply having any dog wouldn't help PTSD sufferers. I've flirted with mild depression most of my adult life, but now I have a dog, that's largely gone. Just having one around shifts your focus from yourself to the animal's needs. I didn't need the VA to buy me one, just Craigslist.
(Btw, if you do get a dog from Craigslist, never pay for it. That's the only assurance you have the dog is indeed theirs to give away and they didn't steal it.)
FlamingoRoad - WTF!?! What is your point? My son happens to be one of those "...guys living on $600 a month." He's been struggling with this since 2005 and for ANYONE who would accuse him of 'raking the system' would be a complete travesty! I've had to calm him down after numerous horrifying nightmares; and my younger son and I have had to both lay down on each side of him to prevent him from suicide - basically just let him talk about his experiences. The memories he has are too horrific for most people to concieve - people blown to pieces or in half, dead children, guys (Iraqi's) who were helping them on base one day would be found the next day along the road beheaded, etc., etc. And this is the thanks he gets: kicked upder the bus by the govt., and accusations by people like you. Good job!
Maybe the Romneys can lend out Rafalca for therapy as a patriotic gesture.
No PTSD is not the newest fad. It has been around as long as warfare itself. The symptoms were first documented 3000 years ago in Egypt. What is new is the name and the attempt to actually treat the problem. Seems to me that providing a dog is much more cost effective than years of VA psychiatric services that frequently don't work. But then who ever accused a government agency of being cost effective. After all that might result in their budget being cut, another no no for government agencies. As for the MD after your name I'm certain that must mean you are from Maryland since I really can't imagine that a supposedly intelligent Doctor of Medicine would be so certain that psychiatric service animals were only a "wonderful companion".
We send our young people into war. We spend billions of dollars on war.
But when our young people (or soldier's of any age) come back horribly traumatized the VA won't spend the money on service dogs?
Once again I am ashamed of our country.
AG99 - It has been proven that dogs and cats DO provide medical benefits including depression. They also lower blood pressure and I know from my own experience with a cat how beneficial it is to just pick up Kitty or pet her - the relief I feel instantly. For the more severely suffering with PTSD and/or TBI, the professionally trained dogs would be much better. The last thing they need is another problem with a misbehaving dog.
i will not say "just any dog from a shelter" but a animal from a shelter that fits with the owner will. i dont think PTSD should fall along the lines everyone with PTSD having one.
sounds more along the lines of depression? if be the case i also feel for some, just some one to care for, that will show unconditional love back can be the best medicine. usually a well trained dog, doesnt mess in the house, maybe a trick or 2 can be the most positive type of dog to start with. 20 grand is a large chunck of cash + the other amendeties. how much would it cost to find/ potty train a dog?
it isnt everything requested by any means, but it is a start in the right direction for some at least.
some times a little is better than nothing at all is it not?
also i did a stint in the US Army, not during war times. i also do suffer from depression at times, and once a year, it gets pretty severe. but i do have my dog and like some of these very same people.... she is my life, and a part of my family.
I approve of your message, makemyday2day.
Some people throw stones from their glass houses.
My brother blew his brains out 5-years after coming back from 'Nam.
Borrowing from George Carlin's classic monologue on the subject - from "shell shock" (sounds like the guns themselves), to "battle fatigue", to "operational exhaustion", now more commonly known as "post traumatic stress syndrome".
My brother went to 'Nam when he was 18, celebrated his 19th birthday during the Tet Offensive, and came home a dark soul.
I am really struggling with being calm about your ignorance.
Too late. You blew that with your very first sentence.
You have no idea what PSTD is. Let alone what is needed to help those that suffer from it.
A rescue dog will not be able to handle a person when they go to that dark place.
@NYMIKE,
struggle your heart out to be calm.... because you are not alone. nor are the people who think NOT EVERY VET with PTSD be given a $20,000 dog. not EVERY VET needs one. i dont think every vet would benifit. i also dont think every vet with PTSD is suitable to handle a dog full time, or any animal.
Yet with the little information provided to the plus' and minus' you are in a fluster? i think maybe you might need a pet to keep the blood pressure down?
then again, lets make a trade? seeing how this is all about affordability here is my proposal...
for every dog the VA needs, take 1 family off of welfare, and tell them to get a job to support their 4-12 kids. this will offset the descreptancy with the amount it would take and put positive results on both ends. the vets get the $ for the dogs, and some welfare drool finally puts back in something they took out for years, and years, and still would have otherwise unless MADE to get a job.
Marilyn it's so great isn't it? To act all high and mighty as you sit behind your desk, having probably served not one second in the military.... at war....and yet you know what these people need and don't need. It amazes me how spineless people like you who have probably never given a moment of your life to help people... or serve your country...can put down people who have and say what they do and don't deserve. You just make yourself look like a pathetic, bitter little person.
I see we have yet another armchair genius who's in the know of what it's like to have PTSD or anxiety attacks. Anxiety attacks can be debilitating. Severely debilitating. They leave you so besides yourself sometimes it feels like you are literally going to die and you can't stop it.
obama and romney will spend hundreds of millions on campaigns and convention.... but we just can't seem to find any money to take care of the veterans.
I am a Vet, yes I am OIF/OEF/New Dawn and have PTSD, on medication, and went to a Shelter and instead of charging me, they GAVE ME THE DOG I was wanting to get, it's been a year and I will say....YES, a PET from your local shelter helps......stop all your bull@!$%# that it won't help, and if you keep reading, they are service dogs...and needs to be specially trained. I want to thank the VA for being there for me, and if it wasn't for my Psychologist at the VA recommending me to get a pet, even from a shelter, and let's see how that helps....like I said it's been a year and I am so in love with my DOG (Panda)..so tired of some of your bs...do something for yourself, and stop wanting handouts
ya, that 35M house on hawaii NObama is having built could have got a lot of pups....
Thank you, Old_Crow and INdigoKid. My son was so screwed over by the govt. for his service. While in Iraq and experiencing terrifying foot patrols, some stray pups had wondered onto their FOB where several of the guys 'adopted' them. After a rough day, it was especially helpful to come back to their pups to take their minds off the events of the day - to have a little guy they could snuggle and love. Then, one day while they were on patrol, one of the officers decided the dogs were unsafe - could spread disease and germs. How did they handle it? Called it 'open season' for the guys left behind who were ever-so-anxious to kill ANYTHING. They threw the carcasses into a pile where they remained for several weeks. My son recalls the horror of seeing his pup's leg sticking up from the pile during that time. It's no wonder he is so messed up!! I blame every bit of his illness on the USMC - a command that didn't believe such a thing as PTSD!
Will the amt of service-connected pension be reduced if a service dog helps relieve ptsd symptoms?
The whiny Republicscum would just say you were getting handouts that you don't deserve. Remember, it's THEIR tax dollars, because they're the only ones that pay taxes. I'm sure if Romney's elected he'll jump right on it , IF he doesn't cut out the VA all together , you know the gov't can't afford any domestic programs, that money's needed for the RICH. Well, when HE starts his wars, just refuse to go, like he did. Go to war ONLY when WE are attacked, NOT to fight for somebody else so the war mongers can get even richer. It's our duty to protect THIS country, NOT someone elses. Until WE'RE attacked, stay out of it. Our veterans deserve FAR better than what they're getting, but they won't, because they're just TOOLS for the gov't. And that is sad, but true. Romney's wife can have a therapy horse, that they can use for a tax deduction of $77,000 dollars though She's SPECIAL though, she's one of the RICH.
Bless you, HRDAWG! I am so sorry about your brother! I live in fear daily my son could snap and do the same. Fortunately, we have a good, solid relationship and encouragement from people within our community that keep him going. He was in the hospital as recently as a few weeks ago when an officer came upon him crossing the street in the middle of the night and accused him of trying to commit suicide by 'jumping' in front of his cruiser. Don't know the real story but he claims it was his own fault for being uncooperative with the officer that stopped him. I know what it's like losing siblings since I lost both of my sisters - my only siblings and younger than me - at young ages in car accidents. Labor Day weekend is the anniversary of the second one and it still hurts even after 27 years. I suppose this is why I'm overly protective of my two sons.
Close a few unnecessary or unused or underutilized military bases and fund veterans programs with the savings. Our veterans deserve better.
And unless you've walked a mile or two in their shoes on a night patrol or stood watch along the wire with them, you haven't a clue on the issues of PTSD.
As a Nam Vet, I feel for these troops, I just had to do 1 tour, some of them are doing 2-3 or even more tours, we need to do everything we can to get them back to normal.
OhioBOB McQ - Liberals and their name-calling is disgusting! I'm an independent since BOTH political parties are too biased and unyielding. But I don't go around calling names - just plain juvenile!! That being said, it should surprise you that a majority of service members and vets are REPUBLICANS! Did you know that Obama filed a lawsuit in OHIO to prevent service members from having any days for early voting? Here it is directly from the USA Today article: "President Obama's campaign has sued the state of Ohio over new rules for early voting designed to benefit members of the military, saying the extra hours should be available to all voters." Nice way to get the service members on your side, huh???? The dems would never fall for helping service members since they're clearly panning for votes from welfare recipients - which, by the way, has nearly DOUBLED since Obama took office!
You do not have to be a soldier to have PTSD, you had to have experienced a highly traumatic event or series of events that you relive in certain ways regularly.
I have severe PTSD and I have never been in the service. However, when I am having a panic attack, no pet or specialized service animal in the world is going to help. Heck, I've been medically sedated during a panic attack and STILL freaked out. If an animal nudged me or otherwise tried to "distract" me, I guarantee I would be off the wall.
I suffer extreme PTSD, and I don't buy the service animal treatment. In my opinion, as a severe PTSD sufferer, it would make it worse to have even further responsibilities to stress me out.
The VA will talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk for our soldiers. My husband is dying of Agent Orange. He bravely served his country in Vietnam on the front lines and they sprayed him with it while he was in the Army.
He has had Hodgkin's lymphoma, chemo and radiation. Four years later he had prostate cancer and surgery. Nine year later he has pancreatic cancer that has spread to his lymph nodes. They removed 2/3 of his pancreas and his spleen, but his was in his lymph nodes again.
The VA will not give him 100% disability even though he has 3 different kinds of cancers. They have failed to process his claim promptly and are just waiting for him to die, which will be soon. I have done everything I can think of including contacting my Senator and our Governor. You will hear the same stories from other veteran's wives.
It is a DISGRACE how our soldiers are being treated by the VA.
HRDawg, Sorry about your brother, Nam was hard on the men and women that came back from there....plus all of the other things that they were called and the way they were treated was just horrible. I have friends and relatives that went there and never came back, it was a terrible time...Just so you know, I am one of those MIA/POW (bring them home or send us back) kind of people. Anyone who serves our country deserves our respect and our help!
Marilyn, I am sincerely happy that you do not suffer from PTSD. I only wish A) you had learned some compassion in your life, or B) taken the time to educate yourself before you shared your ignorance in this forum.
PTSD is not a fad. You should be ashamed of yourself for stating such. What it is is an epidemic. We have sent our young men and women into harm's way so many times that the brain chemistry simply cannot keep up with the stress hormones, (the fight or flight chemicals), that come with that scenario. The brain is literally broken.
While companion animals are wonderful for helping to stabilize one's emotions they are not trained to identify the onset of a panic attack. To have a service animal that could warn of an imminent episode could actually save someone's life, because when the blind and irrational panic sets in you have no control over you actions. Everything becomes confused, too loud, too big, too small. You get lost in familiar places. You forget how to drive. Your brain is telling you that you are going to die. Fear is the only thing.
Dear Mrs. Peach,
I am soo very sorry. I also have a disabled husband but I can not even imagine the pain all of you must be going through. And, the cancer now being found (on top of the other things) is probably because the company ignored the 9-11 dust in the nearby to the WTC building and the previous complaints by other workers. However, despite the "issues" with 9-11, in our case, it is a huge corporation, NOT the country that is supposed to protect us and especially, the people they sent out for the slaughter.
Marilyn -PTSD the newest fad? How about I take you to a homeless shelter so you can meet some Vietnam Vets whose lives have been destroyed by the "newest fad." Or maybe I'll take you to the cemetary plots of Vets that fell victim to the "newest fad" because our government didn't have the proper support system in place for when our military came home. Oh, and I didn't know run-of-the-mill shelter dogs are specially trained to alert PTSD sufferers of arising nightmares and anxiety attacks. Thanks for educating us.
@mt-2801141
If you are going to state that someone is "obviously wrong" and call them an idiot perhaps you could be bothered to explain exactly why they are wrong and how you know so.
"VA won't cover costs of service dogs assigned for PTSD treatment"
My feelings about this in one four-syllable word: Preposterous!
Okay, make that two four-syllable words: DESPICABLE!
I love shelter dogs however- these animals are not suitable in this situation for this purpose. shelter dogs are rarely perfect trained with no issues themselves- so perfect that a person who perhaps has zero dog experience and is suffering a massive psychological crisis could handle. can they become good pets yes, do they make good service dogs- sadly only rarely. these dogs end up at the shelter through no fault of their own but not without a reason normally. this is why unless you are experienced with dogs or get them through a rescue that does the work for you -shelter adoptions fail at very high rates. within days of arriving a not insignificant amount of these dogs develop - well doggy ptsd , and that ontop of whatever problems they already have.
I am a service dog for my Veteran. She served in the Army as a nurse and guess what? I was told she didn't even go to Iraq or Afghanistan! But what I've learned is that she cared for many wounded young Marines and Soldiers during Operation Phantom Fury (Battle of Fallujah II) and throughout her 15 months of deployment also served as a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner. I'm a small dog but able to get up on her chest when she is starting to have extreme anxiety or is experiencing intrusive thoughts. I can scan a room for her and I can keep her feeling safe in a world she no longer sees as safe. Yes, she does live alone, but she doesn't like to socialize because she can't relate to most civilians anymore. One of her best friends told me that I "saved her life" because I was able to pull her out of her shell. I'm way more than a Pet could ever be and my Soldier was able to pay for me BUT she understands that many cannot. She said she would rather the VA took a portion of the service connected money over a long period of time in order to supplement the cost of a Service Dog. If your 50% for PTSD like my Soldier, then take 5% of that each month for a set term with the VA matching and/or making up the rest of the money for the Service Dog. My Soldier says that she guarantees that most Soldiers with PTSD would work something out if they knew they could. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
As for my Soldier's opinion about the comments here.........she wishes everyone would just stop fighting........look at the bigger picture and not argue as to whether or not Veterans with PTSD should have service dogs. How about constructive discussions on how it can be done as a treatment option. No different than all the different modes of therapy that is being used to help with PTSD. Just one more tool in the tool box. PLEASE just stop fighting.....if you're a Soldier and Veteran you know....We've had enough fighting!
Thanks Gunnar. You made me cry. Mental health seems to be the last area the government wants to venture in. I know little about military regulations, but maybe there needs to be mandatory mental health screening when exiting an assignment. We're losing too many because they are slipping through the cracks.
MarilynMD - yes they do need specially trained dogs. I work as a lifeguard at our city pool, and only service dogs are allowed in our pool area. Dogs must be trained to sit still and not run all over the place, and to make certain motions when they need to pee or poop. They must have the harness that states they are a service dog, a laminated card from a doctor stating it is a service dog, or a prescription from a doctor saying that this is a service dog awaiting the delivery of the harness. This is of the utmost of importance for dogs in restaurants, grocery stores, pools, etc., because they have to be specially trained in order to be in these environments.
There is an online group that will "sell" you a laminated card stating you have a "trained" service dog. People use these all the time because they have anxiety and need their little accessory dog to calm their nerves. Give me a break. A jittery, high strung dog like a chihuahua or a Jack Russell terrier cannot be service dogs.
Having said that, I think the VA should indeed pay for these dogs. I've seen dogs like this with people with PSTD and they work wonders. These specially trained dogs are necessary. I saw a woman in the park the other day with her service dog, and it started barking and barking after sitting still for 30 minutes or so. Her blood sugar was dropping and the dog picked up the smell. The woman took some hard candy out of her purse, put it in her mouth and headed back to her car.
These dogs are marvelous. If anyone deserves a service dog, it is our men and women who gave all to serve and protect our lives and freedoms. Shame on the VA.
There are- two to be exact. Post Deployment Health Assessment (<90 days from returning) and Post Deployment Health Reassessment (preferably between 120-150 days, no more than 180 days post deployment.)
The problem is, PTSD doesn't manifest itself overnight. Sometimes it takes months to years for things to get bad. Factor in the stigma that Soldiers experience for having these issues, it's quite understandable to see why things don't get discovered in a 'timely' fashion. Plus, most Soldiers don't realize they have issues until it is pretty bad- people around them normally see it well in advance, as behavior changes subtly changes. You try to tell a Soldier they are behaving oddly though, and see how well that works out for you.
I'm now a 68W (Combat Medic) and this is one of the things we are trained on. Funny thing is- I have issues myself, and even knowing what they are doesn't help me deal with them.
Yes they are. As a longtime inner city animal shelter volunteer we've had lots of dogs adopted out to people with mental problems. We even have some high-functioning mentally disabled adults come work with the volunteerrs occasionally, walking dogs, exercising them, throwing balls, etc. Most of the dogs we have, while evaluated to make sure they'll be good companion animals, are wouldn't be good as either a service dog or a therapy dog (there's a difference, service dogs are for the physically impaired, therapy dogs are for those with less tangible disabilities.) We've only had one in my five years of volunteering that had the characteristics iof a good therapy dog; one of them was a brindle pitbull who was out with one of our disabled volunteers when the disabled volunteer had an epileptic seizure. The pitbull, who was named Ray Lewis after one of the shelter staff's favorite NFL players, lay next to the volunteer and shoved his hind end under the boy's head so he wouldn't bang it on the sidewalk while he was seizing, then curled the rest of the way around him and howled until everyone heard and came.
He was recruited by a therapy non-profit soon after.
For everyone who thinks that a vet shouldn't get a therapy dog for PTSD, think about a guy walking along a sidewalk in any city, minding his own business, until fireworks go off. The guy just goes nuts.
Now imagine a cop comes by sees this guy 'freaking out' on the sidewalk. He asks what's wrong. The PTSD soldier doesn't say anything, what's going on around him doesn't register. Cop asks again. Soldier can;t respond or he responds with gibberish, then in a panic attacks the cop, gets shot. Only later is it found that the guy was in a PTSD episode and had no idea what was going on around him, but too bad...he's still dead and the cop isn't guilty because he was, after all defending himself. he had no idea the soldier was having a PTSD episode, for all he knew it could be the Miami cannibal all over again!
Now if this soldier has a therapy dog--the dog is specially trained to recognize fear in the perspriation, the anxiety, the increased respiration and heartbeat. The dog's been trained to know what to do, finds a nearby doorway and pushes the soldier into it, then sits next to him. Since he's a therapy dog, he'll have a 'therapy dog' vest on him, and if a cop passes by, he sees this dog snuggled up against this soldier, sees the word 'therapy', knows the soldier is in distress and even if the soldier responds negatively, knowing there's something wrong with him by the behavior of the therapy dog beside him, backs up a distance, directs foot traffic around the doorway until the soldier's episode ends.
We have a couple of veterans at our firm and I've seen this happen to one of my bosses--an ex-Army Staff Sergeant--especially around the 4th of July. He curls up under his desk with his eyes rolling and just turns into a drooling, gibbering wreck. I didn't know what else to do except close his office door and turn the radio on so he'd have something to hold onto--I remember going through something similar after I got out of the deportation camp I was held in some years back; kids rattling a chain link fence did it for me, I'd have these unreasoning panic-like attacks and I'd just turn and run and run and run trying to get away from the guards who wanted to do 'body cavity searches' that would leave me bleeding. I finally got my first mp3 player and headphones, and turned them up loud enough so all I could hear was music, and gradually the effects have gotten better till I hardly notice them anymore. But this isn't PTSD--my little panic attacks are nothing compared to what my boss goes through.
War is terrible, and makes people do--and see--terrible things. If they come back impaired afterwards, we have to remember they were there because of us. Because of what we as a nation collectively decided to do. We, therefore, are responsible for what they have become and are honor-bound to help in any way we can.
Thank zanilth. Like I said, I don't know how it all works. And you're so right that it doesn't manifest itself overnight. Of course, I would never tell a soldier s/he's behaving "oddly." We need more people like you to clarify such matters. I think our society's biggest hurdle is removing the stigmas from mental health issues. As long as there's any shame associated, most people won't get help.
Bob-Republican here, previous democrat by the way. There is a very small amount of republicans that resort to name calling and insults, compared to the many democrats that continually call name, sling hate, and insults to try and prove their opinion. Which has a reverse effect and shows how ignorant they are(not an insult, just lack of knowledge). Maybe having an open mind might just help. And yes, many republicans can sling just as much but I usually see the first insult by democrats.
I honestly could care less what political stance one takes, I do, however, care about soldiers being well taken care of from our current administration. My husband has done two tours in Iraq and he does suffer but not as debilitating as others and we have thousands od vets on the verge of suicide and besides a few people here posting their thoughts, most would want them to receive help with tax dollars verses illegal immigrants, welfare people taking handouts and being lazy, and going towards congress to pay a President salary(partial).
are you an idiot or just play one on the internet? i went in for one thing and next thing i know ptsd, anxiety, and depression fit me perfectly. i did NOT ask for it. i cannot afford to feed another living thing on my small pay. i cannot afford what they ask for to adopt a dog from the pound. if you think its so affordable, why dont you pay for us vets to have the companion we need.
Not saying this is a bad thing- it needs to be pointed out as quickly as possible, because the Soldier isn't the first person to notice. To be honest, I'm not really sure of a way of getting earlier recognition from the Soldier's part- before anything could really work to help a Soldier with PTSD, they have to recognize they are suffering from it and want to seek help. You hear about those with nightmares and other issues, but those are on the far end of the spectrum- more often than not, you end up with extremely high anxiety, anger issues, etc. Those things aren't anywhere near as easy to spot and have the Soldier realize they are issues that they need help for.
Even once the Soldier realizes they have those issues, treatment isn't necessarily available or immediate. You are correct when you said that mental health isn't something broached often- in society or the military.
Anything but an abused pitbull or those little yappy dogs. Too noisy,
What happens to these PTSD victims when their dog dies?
Thats a damn good question. My dog helped me alot when I got out, and honestly kept me going some nights. For me so long as they pass naturally I am not saddened by the loss of pets. Death is a finality and knowing I gave it a great life keeps me upbeat while I find another animal to call partner.
Could be devastating if they are not ready for it.
Not wanting to go off topic, but this was just on the local news - December- San Diego - Job Fair coming up for Vets.... the newswoman said 12-6, but the computer says 12-13....
Liberty Station's NTC Promenade @ Corky McMillin Companies Event Center
2875 Dewey
San Diego, CA 92106
December 13, 201211:00 AM – 3:00 PM
Granted that it needs to be done right, but it needs to be done. Pay for the dogs under a research program until you can prove it doesn't work. Being alone can bring the monsters out into the daylight and send good people down the wrong path. The vets can't hug just anybody, so let them have a companion in a dog. Physical contact helps all people stay sane. One lonely vet is one to many. Give them pets until the dogs can be trained and foot the bill. The experience of caring for an animal is therapeutic in and of itself.
Defense department spending money comes from us taxpayers.
Therefore we should have a say in how its spent.
I'm all for it. I don't mind my tax dollars be used for this cause.
Anybody else? yea or nay?
That's a big fat Yea from me! We need to let our representatives and congress know what an important cause this is. A veteran with PTSD can be prescribed antidepressants, anti-psychotics, anti-anxiety and sleeping meds (and more) to the point where a person might be taking more than 10-15 pills a day...none without major side effects such as kidney failure or lack of motivation because they are in a drug induced fog. If a service dog can help, let's make sure that we are responsible in the training but let's look for options outside of so many pharmaceuticals to help our veterans! Some people need some drugs but if there is a healthier and/or more effective alternative, it's got my vote!
It's a proven fact that people who have animals tend to be less likely to be depressed and their overall health is better than those who don't.
I do have to agree with the VA on this one. Go to the shelter and get yourself a nice friendly dog you can bond with if you feel you need one for your treatment of PTSD. Unless your injury is physical and you NEED a assistance animal I see no reason for the VA to pay for it.
I saw a family waiting to get on the same plane as I - they had a rather large "Labradoodle" - it was simply on a leash, (no harness, no vest, etc). The family had four children which I estimated to be 6-16 in age. As the plane was delayed - I could observe the family and dog - I finally asked the oldest brother why they could take the dog on the plane. He told me it was a "therapy dog" for his brother. The brother was allowed to roam the airport unattended (no people or dog with him), I assume that there was a good reason why he needed the dog but that reason was not obvious and frankly it was none of my business.
PTSD, panic attacks, depression, nightmares and about 100 other things can be "invisible" for a stranger to see, are very real to the person or veteran who suffers from what has been labeled as a "psychiatric disorder."
The VA ought to be ashamed of itself!!! Once a person bonds with a dog, the likelihood of suicide, staying out all the time (excessive partying w/ alcohol or drugs), goes down because the person knows that the dog needs them as well - it's a two way street of caring.
A service dog must go through years of training - even for a PTSD person (why does the dog need to operate a light switch? for PTSD?). The dog is required to know a myriad of tasks - making the dog very expensive. states:
Here is the good news: an Emotional Support Animal is allowed on an airplane, in housing that restricts dogs, and most businesses because they will see the dog as a service animal (which it is - in a different way). You and your dog will sit in the first row of seats after First Class - there is room there to fit easily a large German Shepherd lying down. An Emotional Support Animal also has Federal Rights to be in "NO Pets allowed" housing and air transportation. Also:
Any well trained dog (by the person themselves or by taking obedience classes with their dog) should be able to pass the certification as an Emotional Support Animal. The dog must also behave in public and have all necessary vaccinations.
Link: http://www.nsarco.com/emotionalsupportanimals.html
More info: (opens as PDF)
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/20030509.pdf
Here is a sample letter: http://servicedogcentral.org/content/taxonomy/term/3
Also note that you will need to call in advance to inform the airlines of your ESA.
I hope this is helpful to anyone but certainly to our veterans, to parents whose child needs the support of the family dog, to an elderly person etc.... - you don't have to wait years and come up with $20,000 dollars for a dog to accompany you wherever you may want to go - you do, however, need to have a psychiatric disorder or mental illness, such as those listed above.
A therapy dog does NOT have to go through all the hoops as a service dog - it also cannot fly with it's owner or go to a hotel, restaurant, etc. which has a "No Dogs/Pets Allowed" policy. I assume most people with an Emotional Support Dog - call it a "therapy" dog - I would.
TY for the info :)
I think the DoD and the VA are both full of it; Furthermore, they do not care about our families in service! Therapeutic dogs for ptsd is a better answer and alternative medicine than the habit forming, violence and defect inducing drugs they administer, that cause worse side effects than the injuries they have already endured. Plus, it hurts their families! Dogs are the best answer because they won't hire/fire you, degrade or demoralize you. They love you and are always happy to see and greet you. Wake up jerks, there is nothing back here for the soldiers, regular upstanding citizens have it hard enough having lost our jobs to someone overseas, can't pay bills, barely pay bills, and even down to nothing its still very hard. They deserve some love, so do the dogs. Which, the DoD even classifies the dogs as equipment..to be left in hell overseas and won't even let their soldiers bring them home! I would trust my life with one dog and one soldier before I blinked in the direction of someone in the Gov't!
Or we could quit fighting other people's wars and not cause the PTSD in the first place. (no disrespect intended to our service members- just to the habit of starting wars so your buddy can make some cash off military contracts)
inmissouri, lol are you kidding?, there is wayyyyyyyyyy too much money to be made on war to ever stop!
What immediately came to mind was the deduction Romney took, $77,000, for the dancing horse his wife had to have for her illness. Typical of a repub/tparty For ME, not thee.
Boy oh boy. Maybe people like Marilyn MD ( guess MD means Mentally Disabled) and all the other folk need to take a tour of duty. You haven't been through hell, else you wouldn't complain about the VA doing what is supposed to do. Not that the VA EVER does what it is supposed to do, but that's another story. Asshol*s everywhere! No wonder this country is becoming CRA*.
the va shoudl not pay for one but i tell you what my dogs help[ me alot and i pay for everything myself..im a 100% disable combat veteran
Thank you for your service Gary. Those who have not served have no say in my opinion, they have no experience to render an opinion.
Seems reasonable to have the VA system pay for a service type dog - if it works, talk about a cheap fix.
And as long as the dog is well cared for if the vet goes through an episode of depression - more likely would prevent it though.
Or they can just look in the newspaper for a free dog or get one from a shelter. Even a cat for that matter.
gary r;i was in a domcllary just over 20yr ago and pet therpy did wonders before the present ptsd groups for those,like me wiyh a sc ilness.my dad was korea vet with severe,im just little bit from kidhood but other as well during hitch.pets can and do make up the hole where a human cannot,vet or not.tell the combats to keep up the preasure.thnx to all.
@ justavet2 when your spellchecker gives you BIG RED UNDERLINED words, do not ignore them. put forth a little effort and figure out what you are doing wrong.
your basic lack of effort speaks volumes about how much effort you may put into other educated things. if you want to share your experiences, opinion, etc go ahead. just know that when i need to have a 20th grade understanding to decipher your rushed and error filled post...well...it makes you look like an uneducated idiot who cant be taken seriously.
preasure kidhood domcllary therpy wiyh ilness. you cant go 10 words without screwing it up, can you?
A little OCD problem Mike?
So what if a person has language skills that are less than yours.
Here is a unique thought, learn to accept people for who they are, faults and all.
To all the negative/nasty comments : (sorry to paraphrase) Don't judge that soldier until you've walked a mile in his/her boots. A big TY to all our veterans.
Providing a therapy dog for a Service Man or Woman is saving two lives. If that's what it takes to make a person whole - or as near as can be - there should be no question about doing it. Even those who are not severely affected by PTSD should get that shelter animal, even a cat, like tangeant2 suggested. I know of cats that are tuned into their people, and help tremendously.
I am no stranger to bad times and if I didn't have my cats, since age 5, I believe I would have checked out by now. And since the taxpayers supply this government with the funds, I vote we do this.
From my own personal experience with the Veteran's administration and what i have heard from others, the delays, out right boon dogoggles and inappropriate allocations of funding and services for those who have , now, since the 70's, volunteer to defend and protect the people of this country and the Constitution, is deplorable. If someone had the wherewith all, or a mild case of PTSD, I would agree. But, and no pun intended, that is like the Book and Movie , Catch 22. If you could do that, your would not have the problem. I strongly believe that our fighting men and women deserve so much more. Some have even been "talked into" accepting less. Shameful.
I totally agree with you Steve-1101648! The men, women and dogs that fight for our country come home to a Va system that doesn't give a damn about them! Everyone that goes into a VA hospital can see that! And that's IF you can afford to go! My husband served in Vietnam and recently went through a round of prostate cancer treatments (that he didn't want but the VA stressed that he needed) just to find out after the fact that we are now going to be charged $50.00 per visit (42 visits total). He was told upfront that the VA will not let a veteran die because he cannot afford a doctor. My husband lost his job because of the cancer treatments and they still want money that we do not have coming in. And to top it off.... he still has cancer! VA personnel are out for themselves. If you know anyone that works in a VA hospital you know that their pay and benefits are excellent! I think every employee that works for the VA should be a veteran or family member of a veteran.
@ Steve...Yes the VA is everything you say it is, but compared to 40 years ago, when they became my main health provider, things are a whole lot better now. As to the funding and services, it's cyclical and @Robert922268, it does run along party lines. The proof is in the pudding. The party that sends them to war is the one that stalls the funding for care, treatment, and even wants to slash the VA's budget to pay for tax breaks.
PTSD what a crock. Most soldiers don't go anywhere near a dangerous situation.
Said the man from his comfy desk.
Desk..... you mean from Moms basement. After 8 hours of paper or plastic.
Or welcome to wal mart need a cart.
And you know this how Aaron??? Do you work for the military? Do you work for the government? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? My guess your head is so far up your ass you don't have any clue what you're talking about.
You lame ass piece of @!$%#!!! You are probably a Republican that doesn't have a clue what it is to give something of yourself...Not FOR yourself!!!!!! What I wouldn't give for 1 minute with you out on the street, because thats all it would take to mop up the pavement with you spincter boy!!!
With a comment that stupid I would not be surprised if this guy is a congressman.
Someone get habanero a service dog, asap.
Aaron - those not going to combat areas are not the issue here, but there are, at issue, plenty who are stuck serving over and over and over again. No wonder they are on a mental health tightrope. If they WANT to try a service dog, pay to give them a service dog.
Wow....
hey habanero, there are a buttload of republicans in the military you nitwit...
Come on, lighten up on Aaron.
He has seen lots of combat. He sees it every single day when he spends hours and hours playing World of Warcraft.
Funny comment.
I don't suffer from PTSD . I suffer from L.A.T. it's a medical/mental problem that means Low @!$%# Tolerance.
If I knew where you lived you'd be near a dangerous situation. and I bet you'd be crying for mommy within 10 seconds
Crock of SH#T!
Marilyn, Flamingo, & MO.,
Your posts are all on target. Every time this BS about PTSD comes up, Americans need to raise questions and demand answers. Legitimate answers that are not "peer evaluated." I'd be absolutely ashamed to accept, let alone ASK for money for such BS reasons! Nothing PO's more than this crap about PTSD and the enablers out there falling for it. Grrrrrrrr.......
BTW Kansas I agree with your evaluation(s), just not for that reason.
come and take it,
Who gives a sh*t what you think. You get shot at, loose a leg, eye, arm whatever. PTSD real or fake. Are you saying screw you even if it helps them cope? Again see below hero just dont ask for anything. Here is 10% off IHOP.
Another moron who sits behind his deks...living a comfy life... having never served a day in his life... giving his completely ignorant and hate filled opinion. I wish newsvine had a trash can for us to put all the crap posts in when we read them.
Well stated, tz! Someone needs to "come and take it" - the hatefulness right out of him. Disgusting!
"come and take it" probably still believes epileptic seizures are really people being possessed by demons. And the world is flat. And that earth is the center of the universe....
Come and take it:
While you may not have experienced this yourself, it doesn't mean other's don't. It is a recgonized psychological symptom and even if you don't believe it, have some respect for those who do.
Sorry but just because you don't think an answer is legitimate, doesn't mean that it isn't. Who are you to make a call like that? And seriously if a service dog will help them get their life back, how is that a BS reason?
What the hell have you ever done for your country jackwad???? Besides piss and moan how bad things are in your mind, apparently, you don't seem to realize that you are the lamest of the lame. More than likely you are some little mommas boy still living in her basement sponging off her meager social security.
look at this jackasses page. it is a wannabe marine. supports eveything EXCEPT the military person that gives IT the freedom to post crap!
First Marine I've ever seen to claim "former USMC veteran".
Ask a Marine- they'll tell you... Once a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine.
What with all the money the military spends on worthless parties, $200.00 for one nail, the PTSD service dog is a must. I honor all of you service men and women. Would those nay-sayers have to go through what is happening to you. God bless and thank you for your service.
How can the VA deny a vet suffering PTSD the companionship and healing power of a service dog while
a convicted murderer can have a sex change at the expense of the state...some gratitude for thier
service...makes me ashamed to be American.
Ever so true, VtMom!!! Sex change for a convicted murderer - and yet people complain about the price of a SERVICE dog to a disabled veteran!! WTF!!?
But Ann Romney gets a $77,000. tax deduction for her therapy horse (cause of her MS). Hmmm-nice horse.
The VA and the Military budgets are not one in the same.
Look, I am sure if there was more research the VA would provide. The people who work at the VA are the nicest people I have ever met and I honestly feel if I needed it they would all chip in and buy me a dog.
The thing is they have a budget and its not nearly as big as the ones we have for building the bombs and @!$%# that cause this sort of thing. There is no lobbyist buying votes in congress backed by bigwigs.
They have to decide how to most efficiently use the money they get, while dealing with the bull@!$%# bureaucracy that congress keeps smacking them with.
thanks, but no thanks. Yep your all heros here are 10% off coupons for sizzler
Nice work VA
With all due respect.. There are specially trianed dogs that you can get ? Just any neighborhood pup wont work?
Denny: Yes. They have to be specially trained, not just any dog will do.
Dogs, having been wolves in the past, can sense fear, panic, anxiety. They have very sensitive noses, hear better, and, in the case of sight-hounds or dogs that hunt by sight, can see physiological differences.
The difference between a companion dog and a trained therapy dog is, first, instinct. The dog has to have a strong protective, nurturing instinct. They have to be very intelligent.
But while the dog may have instincts that make them a good candidate for a therapy dog, they have to be TRAINED. They have to be trained to know the difference between increased heartbeat due to, say, exercise, and increased heartbeat due to incipient panic attack. They have tobe trained to know how to ground themselves so they can be a reality anchor for their human; have to be trained to know how to be able to approach a human in a nonthreatening way so as to remind the human that there is something out here other than the unreasoning fear and panic of a PTSD/panic attack. Some dogs may have the instinct but not the desire; you can't train that into them, they'll be indifferent to the human they're supposed to be helping.
Yiou have to have a dog with the right instincts and the DESIRE to perform before you can train it to be a therapy dog. So no, not just any dog will work.
If you're interested, check out some of your local veterinarians, animal shelters and rescues. There's a huge network of rescues out there, someone will know of a therapy dog program. Check them out, ask questions, talk to a counselor to see if one is right for you. If you find one, talk to family, friends, people you know, churches, veteran-friendly places. Have a fundraiser, garage sale, let people know what you want the dog for. Despite what some posters on this board sound like, there is a lot of 'help the veteran' sentiment out there; if you could raise part of the money yourself, perhaps an arrangement could be made to meet you halfway.
Very well said Amanda!!
It's OK for Cheney and Rove to Out Valerie Plame, but heaven forbid a serviceman has PTSD
What does Cheney have to do with this story? Do you just have an overwhelming compulsion to bitch about him every waking moment? Perhaps you should look into getting a dog yourself to help you cope with your issues.
After what that guy has done to this country, I am more worried about those who don't have compulsion to bitch about him.
Essentially sold lives for profit.
Of course, the VA does not want to acknowledge PTSD because it might make people think that war is not fun and games -- shooting and being shot at is just a jolly pastime, everyone knows that!
With the high rate of suicide for this population of vets it makes sense to put some money into treatment even if the treatment is not a pill but a pooch! Does the Fed Gov take care of their wounded warriors or not?
james - "Does the Fed Gov take care of their wounded warriors or not?"
Absolutely not! Most often, a vet might have to wait WEEKS or MONTHS to even get an appt. at the VA. How does that help when s/he has an immediate crisis or anxiety attack? THAT'S one of the reasons the suicide rate is so high.
The govt. will do EVERYTHING they can to deny a vet the treatment they deserve. I've observed this first hand!
So why do the liberals believe in BIG GOVERNMENT????? Do you REALLY think Obama's big government is going to make things any better? You are fools who are brainwashed by our socialist dictator! To quote Thomas Jefferson, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have." WAKE UP and learn from the present day riots in Europe. Here's another quote of wisdom, "The trouble with socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money." THINK!!!!!
Yeah call a Doctor or anyone at the VA and if they don't answer, you'll get a message for the number to suicide prevention!
No surprise to me. The VA murdered 5 Vets in my life, beginning with my father. They treated him for lung cancer in both lungs but he only had one. The first was removed after taking a 13mm bullet. And guess there was a mariculous cure as when he died there was no trace of cancer or that he ever hd it. Meanwhile the scar tissue located at the juncture of his heart and aeorta were never treated. That scar tissue also a result of another 13mm bullet received in combat.
One of my friends went to the VA where he received the wrong blood type. He still wore his old Army Dog Tags stating he had Type O Negative Blood. I bet he never thought they would give him a B Positive Transfusion. But he was soon dead also. Well ,what do you expect is left for the VA to higher at much lower wages than elsewhere? If it quacks like a duck it must be one.
they are just soldiers, f them.
got PTSD, how about another tour in Afghanistan
They're soldiers...and what are you Sax? A pathetic little boy who sits at his computer typing ignorant and hate filled statements to make you feel like you're someone... like you're important... like what you have to say matters....well guess what....none of that is true... you're the one who means nothing and everyone should say @!$%# you.... to..... pathetic, sad and bitter little boy that you are.
Sax, hahahahahaha! That was a good one. Just trying to piss people off, nice little joke. Are you sitting at a free Wi-Fi place laughing at how really funny you think you are? Easy to say behind a screen, when you have men and women who will pop your little head, with an itty bitty brain off like a festering zit if said in person and if you were not trying to ruffle a few feathers. Or for just the fun of it!
Better yet, my husband has done two tours and he would be more than happy to escort you to Afghanistan, drop you off, give you a high powered assault rifle, MRE's, water, tent, and a map. He will wait for you to find him, it could take year or so and all the while dodging missiles, bullets coming at you 1000 per minute, finding land mines. You won't find him so he will come get you, drop you off in your home town and wish you luck on adjusting back home, getting help from the government and not get it.
The govt can't pay for service dogs for people that risked their lives, but they will pay for Viagra? Typical.
Thank god, somewhere there's an adult. the bogus crap of disability, getting a sex change while a life time prisoner, ptsd dogs, for gods sake. if you want a dog, go to the pound, dirt simple. the system has no business paying for therapeutic dogs or pools or hot tubs or dope or alcohol or spouse. get a grip
What we really need to do is to ship your ass to Afghanistan, maybe you'll have a different outlook once your ass has been put in harms way over and over. It's obvious you never served.
What outfit were you in? The girl scouts do not count. You and your pal Obama are really doing a fine job to help the vets of America... welfare cheats need not ever get a job but a few hundred dogs for guys who fought are too expensive. Yeah you dem vets there vote for him.. after his minions treat you like this. it will only get worse as you are released from duty, discharged and wind up going to the VA for help, strike that, for no help.
No soup for you!
Poor Thor...the only way you can feel like a man is by sitting at your computer putting down real men. Sad and pathetic you are.
Thor T---The system has no business sending them to unjustified wars either, but they did.
Prof1940---Obama didn't send them to war, Bush did. And Obama will do far more for them than your Repulicscum nominee ever will.
Actually its Congress that has been trying to cheat veterans, not the President. Even the Brass has to kowtow to Congress because that's who approves military funding.
If a dog helps a veteran struggling with PTSD, then I have no problem with my tax dollars being spent for that. I'd have no problem with my tax dollars being spent to house homeless vets, either, as they make up 1 in 6 of the nation's homeless population. Veterans deserve to be taken care of as a reward for their service. And as a matter of fact I come from a military family where most of the men and about 25% of the women serve or have served.
Hate to tell you, but Obama has been President for going on 4 years, and hasn't really changed much about it- so yeah, the past 4 years is on him.
But anyway, Prof didn't say anything about President Obama sending anyone to war- he said he wasn't doing much to help Vets. FYI, neither dems nor repubs care about vets.
I am pretty sure Obama ended one war and kept his nose out of the whole Arab Spring movement that the UN so desperately wanted us to handle for them again.
So....yeah.
If you're talking about the war in Iraq, try again. The Status of Forces agreement that outlined the troop withdrawal was signed by President Bush before Obama was elected. I have an article I wrote about it on here.
President Obama had absolutely nothing to do with that, aside from being in office when the timeline eventually hit the end.
Zanilth-THANK YOU!!!! It seems that Ohio Bob and Joe32 like to mix up truths and essentially lie to make their current boss look better for his lies and lack of leadership, while not following through with his promises.
When they needed them to fight those two God forsaken wars their minds were ok and you gave them a rifle and 3 squares. Now that they have witness the horrors and atrocities of war that so many of us have been spared and they relive the nightmares day in and day out you do not want to give them a peaceful instrument that care and love them unconditionally through their mental traumas you, the VA turned your back on this countries fighting men and women. Shame on you. You did the same thing to the Vietnam veterans when you denied Agent Orange. How do you live with yourselves. How can you look at your families with a straight face? Cheney can get a heart why not the veterans he had not problem sending off to do his dirty work receive something to make their lives easier. Any comments or thoughts MR. Cheney or Mr. Bush?
Agreed, the system is broken and needs to be rebuilt yesterdays headline was state of Ma. to pay for inmates sex change and today it's the vets refusal for a dog that can help him,pretty sad state of affairs that Obama or Romney should jump on and explain how they could fix this.
Another stuffed shirt Bush appointee forcing yet another failure of the VA to do it's job. Fire them all and replace them with real custodians of the VA's mission.
You just need to be an illegal to get help from the government, not a veteran.
This is totally out of line as far as the VA is concerned. My service animal and I set presedence here in Reno NV. at the VA Medical Center. Both myself, Rover my service animal and a friend of mine (who suffers from siezures) and his dog Maggie, are one of the few service animals allowed in the hospital. Yes there have been issues of missrepresentation, however, a properly trained service animal has a certain demeanor about them. If it wasn't for Rover, I would have been dead a long time ago. I became Nocturnal right after 9/11/01 and it took a lot of work on Rover's part to get me out of that mess. We have been together 10 years now, and we are doing strong. Rover has seen to all of my mental issues and does everything he can to see that I can fit in. The VA in Washington DC needs to take a second look at their decision, because without a service animal many Vets will end up in a lot of misery and hurt.
This decision violates the ADA and needs to be reconsidered. Shinseki should have STAYED retired.
After everything that the men and women who serve our country do, I would have to say that providing a service dog to help them is the very least we can do to acknowledge and thank them for the sacrafice that they made in their safety to ensure ours.
Not in Obama's VA, wait until after the election.. you will see the vets get screwed even more by doctors who can't get a real license and do even speak English.
Why are you bringing politics in this every chance you get scumbag? Idiots like you are the only reason we have idiots in congress. They know they can pander to your meager 45 IQ points just by throwing some cash and buzz words on tv. To hell with real issues when you can convince mouth breathing imbeciles like yourself that one party is the most evil thing in the world and stands for nothing but everything you hate. Who needs compromise and progress?
Grow up and get an education, you worthless dredge.
Joe32 you are the MAN!
What a @!$%#ty and pathetic comment. You honestly should shut the f*ck up. As a vet with a 100% service connected disability rating I can honestly say you don't have a f*cking clue. I've spent the last 9 years in the VA system and I am happy with the care I receive.
The VA keeps stepping in it. General(R) Shinseki has done little to nothing to improve the VA and this is yet another example of his failing US veterans.