This is exactly why the catholic church (or any religion) will continue to see its membership decline in the United States. What this priest did was celebrate the love and committed shared by two individuals within his own family. I thought a catholic churched preached the word of god, not the words of bigotry and hatred.

Most churches are all about the bigotry... thinly veiled as the word of "god". What a joke religion is.

MAT 7 ; 1-5

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I am thankfull for this verse because it lifts any responsibilty from me to tell non Christians how to live, and I thank God for that.lol. The church has bigger things to worry about, if you feel your religion is so weak or your parishoners so ignorant that it will lose its main philosophies,or edicts over this then you (arch bishops) need to reevaluate the job you are doing and the faith you have in your religion to think it so weak that people will mis understand. Once you become afraid of the secular world, then you will know you have lost some faith in the strength of your God.

That in itself is much worse than the wrong you say the preacher has done.

This is a perfect example of the filthy, lowlife "ways" of the Pedophile Catholic Cult.

Today: Smack down a priest for simple doing a reading at a FAMILY MEMBER's gay wedding.

Tomorrow: Once again, they'll look the other way when it comes to another incidence of child rape by a different priest.

The entire Pedophile Catholic Cult should have been dismantled and its assets sold off to the highest bidder, with the proceeds going to the tens of thousands of vicitms of child rape, abuse, molestation...and Gawd knows what other victims hidden away in its dungeons. It has been allowed to exist far too long with all the crimes we know it has committed...especially since the complicity for those crimes goes all the way to the top.

@enqenq;

Most churches are all about the bigotry... thinly veiled as the word of "god". What a joke religion is.

Does this statement of yours not make you a bigot yourself, against those with religion? I am not a fan of "organized religion" either but I do not have hate or pejudice against anyone, you seem to be bigoted against the religous yourself, so please take a look in the mirror sir.

You also are being a bigot.

You would be hard pressed to find a Christian church that would send you away for being Gay. Not saying some do not exist but they are truly not mainstream

Carol thanks for you analogy on the scripture, I never looked at it that way. You are so correct he is taken the burden off of me to judge and build hatred toward any one person or group. Again thank you for opening my eyes to this.

So much for the Catholic church being all about 'family'. Now they want us to turn against our own families.

This ain't Nazi Germany. And it ain't gonna happen.

Does this statement of yours not make you a bigot yourself, against those with religion?

Guilty. Sorry Coral, I realize I can be over the top in my rants. I'll try to tone it down a bit.

That said, I like people, even very religious ones, but I don't like religion. I'll defend people's rights to practice their religion as strongly as I will support the rights of gay people, but I don't have to like religion. I feel the same way about free speech; I don't like racism but I'll defend a racist person's rights to say racist things (as long as it is not directly infringing on another's rights).

Religion breeds too much conflict and harm for me to ever like it.

@ weall; No problem, I have used this when dealing with atheistS that say all Christians are sitting on their self righteous high horse judging others, simply does not work that way, nor does our scripture promote it.

We(as Christians) are to spread the word not force the word. The choice is yours. I will care for you no matter whom you wish to marry, if you are my neighbour I will be there if you need me, no matter your religion or spouse. The ME, and more Catholics need to learn this philosophy of live and let live. So simple.

All religions are just forms of plundering govt deriving their power from a conveniently unverifiable source. Just another way to exploit the herd, uuu, flock. Whatever.

@ Coral, @ Engesq et al,

You guys have made my day. It's so nice to hear reasoned discourse from opposing view-holders... and mixed with some passion (@Engesq). Too bad our political leaders can't do the same but then then they must pass a religious litmus test which precludes so much decent talent joining the mix. Respect for others is what Jesus preached but is currently missing from too many who claim to follow Him.

I am not Catholic, but if the priest helped in the officiating of that wedding he should lose his congregation. If he only did a reading and it was a family member I would still disagree with him, but it was family.

If you people are leaving the church in droves it is because they want to do what they want to do-homosexuality, pro choice-whatever. They should leave because they are not in keeping with the tenents of what most churches stand for. Join the episcopalians. They are welcoming and are not living the laws of God anyway. It's YOUR thing-do what you WANT to do.

Coral Taxi - We(as Christians) are to spread the word not force the word.

The Catholic church, Mormons, Southern Baptists, etc, are all trying to use the government to enforce their sharia laws against gays.

It seems many major denominations do in fact want to "force the word" on everybody by using secular law.

I don't understand why he is in trouble for participating in a "Gay" wedding. Aren't most weddings gay and happy with people celebrating a marriage of two people in love.........what.....not "Gay" happy.......but "Gay" homosexual............nevermind.

You would think that churches would celebrate anytime people are willing to vow to share and care and love someone.

I would venture to guess that he did not ask permission and thus suffered the consequences. It is not as though he just attended the gathering but spoke thus giving a blessing. I would guess he knows where the church stands on same-sex marriage and chose to ignore that. Chips fall where they may. I am sure given the current climate over at the Episcopalians he would be welcome.

A confused priest does no one any good.

I am not usin the government or anyone else to voice my beliefs on anyone else. I am telling what I am Millions of others believe to be the Gospel. It has been around for Hundreds of years and it says in Black and White that Marriage is for a Man and a Woman. If you do not agree with those beliefs then fine do not call me names, do not put down what I believe in and stop all this hate !!

I think if we look back it started in the 1960's when Mrs. O'Hair took her hate and foul talk to the Supreme Court. Every since then "Christians" from everywhere have been afraid to stand up for what WE BELIEVE IN. Well not anymore, America. Just because we choice to serve God and can carry on a conversation without yelling, cussing and acting like a nut !! We are no longer going to let our Nation, that God blessed us with, go away. We are going to pray for all of you whether you like it or not. Every chance we get and everywhere we can !!

So all of you can get mad, that's OK. We Still LOVE YOU !! God BLess All you and Have a Great Day !!!

EngEsq said;

What a joke religion is...Religion breeds too much conflict and harm for me to ever like it

Religion, in and of itself, is a set of words and precepts, usually written, that sets down guidelines for how a person should live their life. The book, those words, don't have the power to hurt or heal on its own. What does make a difference is the viewpoint of the person reading that book--the person picks out what fits in their world view and discards the rest. I could pick up my municipality's phone book and after scouring the pages, I could come up with the words to Hitler's Mein Kampf. That doesn't mean that what I got out of it is the same as what is actually in it.

The problem, for me, isn't religion. It's established religion based on one person, or a small group of persons, idea of what religion should be. A while back a bunch of christian elders got together 8000 scrolls that contained the teachings of the Christian faith, they picked out 77 (66 in some translations) that they liked, put that together in a book, called it the 'Word Of God', and then squirreled the rest away as 'The Forbidden Books.' In other words, they did with those scrolls exactly what I described doing with the phone book above. If it's the Word Of God, why is it forbidden? The Vatican actually wasn't founded until 1929 between the person who was pope then and Benito Mussolini. And I'm certain that in exchange for this magnanimous gift of their own city-state the pope agreed to slip just a few things that Mussolini liked in the new translation, just like Henry the 8th (I think) of England granted the Church of England a royal charter in exchange for allowing him to get divorces...

But back on topic. Organized, established religion is like established anything else. It's easy. It offers answers you can get prepackaged, off the shelf, same for everyone, no hard thinking required. When a religion gets 'established', or so mired in bureaucracy that compassion takes second place to the law (see the current fracas with the nuns) and that law is written in stone and has no room in it for exceptions, it's no longer a religion for humans, it's a religion for paper-pushers and marble statues. That's when it's time to look outside of the dogma and prepackaged answers and move off to find your own. Christianity did that with Judaism--it split. And so did the Greek Orthodoxy, the Church of England, even the Quakers. It's happened numerous times throughout history, and I'm seeing it start to happen again within Christianity.

And there's nothing wrong with that; just as human society and human thinking evolves, so should a faith evolve with it, and when it doesn't, it becomes a footnote in history.

I have been thinking of trying to find a copy of the Gutenberg Bible, the first book ever printed. I seriously wonder how much today's Bible has changed from that one.

gtouch

I don't understand why he is in trouble for participating in a "Gay" wedding. Aren't most weddings gay and happy with people celebrating a marriage of two people in love.........what.....not "Gay" happy.......but "Gay" homosexual............nevermind.

You would think that churches would celebrate anytime people are willing to vow to share and care and love someone.

-------- I always thought of weddings as a somber occasion, like a funeral (usually the man's funeral). At least mine was. This might explain why no one was surprised at my divorce.

@ skrekk;

The Catholic church, Mormons, Southern Baptists, etc, are all trying to use the government to enforce their sharia laws against gays.

From what I see in America, I believe that people of all denominations are becoming more welcome of gays, this story is proof of that, ie This preist was not too worried about consequences, he did what he thought was right.

Uh Oh!! I'm late for my anti gay Sharia meeting!! lol (face palm,shakes head)

PatriotJane, "the Episcopalians are welcoming and not living the laws of god, anyway"? Really? Beats following god's laws and being exclusive.....

-------- I always thought of weddings as a somber occasion, like a funeral (usually the man's funeral). At least mine was. This might explain why no one was surprised at my divorce.

Point taken spellchecker.

He really should have left the collar at home.

Otherwise it's no one's business.

Coral

I will care for you no matter whom you wish to marry, if you are my neighbour I will be there if you need me, no matter your religion or spouse.

I question if you are being honest here, or simply trying to make yourself look better to other people. If you are being honest, I applaud you... however, you must realize that you are extremely rare. The vast, VAST majority of Christians would NOT care for a gay person. In fact, there was a recent story of a church who turned their back to a family that had attended their church for 30 years, simply because their son was gay. THAT is Christianity. THAT is what Christians do. THAT is who Christians are.

I am not speaking as an outsider, as I have spent most of my life in the Christian church. I have seen their hatred first hand. I have seen the hate that fills their souls, directed towards people who do not conform to their rules.

We(as Christians) are to spread the word not force the word.

I have found it odd that Christians complain, almost daily, about homosexuals "flaunting" their lifestyle in front of them... while at the same time they "flaunt", force and spread their own religious lifestyle to everyone else. Of course, I was asked to never return to church when I pointed this out.

Apparently, two homosexuals holding hands, and ignoring everyone around them is "flaunting it" in their face. But Christians coming on to property, knocking on doors, and interrupting the lives of people, all in an attempt to "convert" them, is completely acceptable. The hypocrisy is mind boggling.

As Gandhi once said: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Truer words were never spoken.

Amanda? Vatican City has been around forever. Indeed, the Swiss agreed ages ago to work for the pope as guards as long as he'd continue to pray for the glacier threatening the area at the time to recede. And it did. And it continues to do so, making the locals concerned that the glacial water they drink is going to dry up.

There was that bit where the pope lived in Avignon, France for a while, but he had wars going on.

As for the Quakers - Massachusetts took care of a few of them in the mid 1600s. Hanged them. Mass. was a theocentric state back then. Scary times. You need to read "Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul." Compared to the fairy tale version of the pilgrims we get in middle school, this is quite eye opening.

Coral Taxi - From what I see in America, I believe that people of all denominations are becoming more welcome of gays, this story is proof of that, ie This preist was not too worried about consequences, he did what he thought was right.

Since 71% of American Catholics support marriage equality, it seems they're not the problem but the church hierarchy is.

Uh Oh!! I'm late for my anti gay Sharia meeting!! lol (face palm,shakes head)

Maybe you should talk to the Catholic Bishops Conference to see why exactly they want their Catholic sharia laws enforced through secular law? Given that the state ignores the Catholic church's view of divorce, why should it give a @!$%# about the Catholic church's view of gays?

NEW Testament John 8:1-11

Jesus said: Let the one among you who is without sin cast the first stone.

It boggles the mind and angers me that my faith has become ridiculously like the teabaggers. In the past you don't hear much of this nonsense - it's almost the same cover up as the abuse scandal. NOW they are throwing their baseless weight around that is so against Jesus's teachings when HE was HERE on earth! Whatever happened to His teachings of love thy neighbor as thyself? The bishops think this will HIDE the abuse? Seriously?

As Cardinal Carlo Martini said before he died: the Catholic Church is 200 years behind. I think it's really more like 500 years.

This keeps up we will be back to the time of the Spanish Inquisition. If that happens the church will be demolished as they will really lose their dwendling flock.

Long ago when I was getting my degree at a Catholic university we had to take an ethics course. The priest explained much about the ethical teachings of the church and how those teachings should guide our practice. For example, his niece had asked him to officiate at her wedding, but because she was planning to use birth control pills during the marriage he refused to perform the ceremony. This is what the Catholic Church would consider to be a good priest. And this is one of many reasons why I am an ex-Catholic.

@ mguy;

I question if you are being honest here, or simply trying to make yourself look better to other people. If you are being honest, I applaud you... however, you must realize that you are extremely rare. The vast, VAST majority of Christians would NOT care for a gay person. In fact, there was a recent story of a church who turned their back to a family that had attended their church for 30 years, simply because their son was gay. THAT is Christianity. THAT is what Christians do. THAT is who Christians are.

I am nothing but honest. I do not judge, if you are a nice person then your good to go with me. I would like to see source of this "recent story". Saying Christians do not care for gay people is ultra ignorant, you are the one being the hater toward Christians.

I am not speaking as an outsider, as I have spent most of my life in the Christian church. I have seen their hatred first hand. I have seen the hate that fills their souls, directed towards people who do not conform to their rules.

Sounds more like the church of Satan, what was the name of this church?lol We accept everybody, you can go to a church for years and never be saved and still be as welcomed as those that are every Sunday(that is a fact jack). True Christians do not reject anyone. Read on....

This silence may imply assent to the view that certain at-risk populations
(gay and bisexual men, drug addicts, prostitutes) deserve the disease and the
horrible death it portends. Or the silence may indicate a lack of knowledge of
the disease and of the opportunities for ministry it generates. Whatever the
reason for the shortcoming, AIDS raises basic issues of pastoral and prophetic
ministry that involve the church's role in the community as well as its
responsibility for society's dispossessed. Whether or not the federal government
or other agencies provide resources to meet this crisis and some of the needs of
people touched by it, the church itself must respond if it is to reflect in its
life the spirit of its Lord who commanded his fellow servants to do for one
another what he had done for them.

The Gospel of Luke is noted for its emphasis on Jesus as the humble, loving,
compassionate Christ who holds the poor, the outcast and the dispossessed in
special regard (see particularly Luke 4:16-30 and 7:18-23). Liberation
theologians have developed this theme as the springboard for their theologies.
An uncompromising affirmation of the church's ministry to the poor is central to
the church's servanthood, they urge, since Jesus came preaching the Good News to
the poor, and announcing freedom to the broken victims of human indignities and
oppression. God's servants have a special responsibility to act with justice and
righteousness, and to speak prophetically in the name of a just, righteous and
compassionate God.

Jesus ate with the outcasts, and stayed among the poor and rejected, this is how we are taught, not the way you say it is. Jesus holds them in "special regard" not special rejection. So quit kidding yourself, and espousing your opinion as fact, because it is far from it.

Too bad for bigots like you, Jennifer, that your religion has nothing to do with our laws and government.

The priest should think about becoming an Episcopalian. We are essentially the same as Catholicism, except we have the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury instead of the Pope, our priests are allowed to marry, and be gay, and perform gay marriages. Other than that we look a lot like Catholics, but we are not still stuck in the Dark Ages.

Here's the thing. The Catholic church has been taken over at the top by extremists. These overzealous fools do not represent the majority opinions of Catholic Laity and Clergy. Moreover, they know this to be fact. Yet they want to influence politics by claiming that the whole of the church believes X,Y an Z and so you had better get behind their agenda or lose the support of the almighty church. Clearly this priest does not share the Church's views on homosexuality. Yes it was family, but he participated in a celebration of a homosexual union, not only participated by attending, but also by lending an aura of legitimacy over the proceeding by appearing as a recognizable priest and reading scripture from the pulpit. I applaud him for doing so, it took courage and he knew that he would be rebuked if the bishop ever heard about it. The hiearchy cannot risk moderate and liberal Catholic voices to be heard or it looses it's carefully constructed facade that the Church is conservative in nature. The issues that it stands on, that it has been preaching on for the last 20 years or so are not the foundation of our religion. It's time that we moderate Catholics stand up to the political corruption. Christ did not found a church to thwart gays or oppress women. He did not found the church to influence political goings on. He did not found the church to do anything except spread the word that God is our Father in heaven and loves us and wants us to live righteous and good lives. Blessed be the peace makers, the meek, the poor in spirit. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Blessed are the merciful, the pure of heart, who are persecuted for their righteousness -For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. Woe to those who are rich, who are full, who laugh and of whom all men speak well of for you have already received your rewards. Jesus called on us to focus on love and humility, not force and exaction. Why cannot the church go back to it's roots and focus on the works of Mercy that we have been called to?

Corporal Works of Mercy are those that tend to bodily needs of others. In (Matthew 25:34-40, in the The Judgment of Nations six specific Works of Mercy are enumerated, although not this precise list — as the reason for the salvation of the saved, and the omission of them as the reason for damnation.

1.To feed the hungry.

2.To give drink to the thirsty.

3.To clothe the naked.

4.To harbour the harbourless[7]. (also loosely interpreted today as To Shelter the Homeless)

5.To visit the sick.

6.To ransom the captive.

7.To bury the dead.

and Spiritual works of mercy -Though ideally applicable for all faithful, not everyone is considered capable or obligated to perform the first three spiritual works of mercy if they do not have proper tact, knowledge or canonical training to do so. The last four works are considered to be an obligation of all faithful to practice unconditionally.[

1.To instruct the ignorant.

2.To counsel the doubtful.

3.To admonish sinners.

4.To bear wrongs patiently.

5.To forgive offenses willingly.

6.To comfort the afflicted.

7.To pray for the living and the dead.

Stop being so myopic that you cannot see the forrest through the trees.

Jennifer said;

I am not usin the government or anyone else to voice my beliefs on anyone else. I am telling what I am Millions of others believe to be the Gospel. It has been around for Hundreds of years and it says in Black and White that Marriage is for a Man and a Woman.

And the problem is that what you call the Word of God is, in fact, a compilation of what the Council of Nicaea decided they wanted to constitute the Word of God out of over 8000 scrolls of Christian teachings back in the 3rd century. Whatever they decided they didn't like got labeled 'The Forbidden Books' and was hidden away in the Vatican archives when the Pope and Benito Mussolini established the city-state in 1929.

(and actually those first Bibles were handwritten, illuminated manuscripts and so weren't in black and white, but painted and inked in colors. And I seriously doubt that those illuminated manuscript bibles have the same stuff that's in the Bible today.)

If you do not agree with those beliefs then fine do not call me names, do not put down what I believe in and stop all this hate !!

If you would like us to stop then you need to stop as well.

I am a practicing pagan, and my belief system has sects for the gays (the Minoan Brotherhood) and the lesbians (the Dianics.) If two of our Minoans or two of our Dianics want to get married, our priests and priestesses can marry them, but when they go to file that marriage with the government, the government refuses to recognize their marriage because of YOUR religion's belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is a direct violation of the 'separation of Church and State' mandate, and it is a violation of our 1st amendment right to practice our religion as we see fit.

If you do not agree with those beliefs then fine, don't call us 'abominations', do not put down what we believe ("All acts of love and pleasure are My gift") and stop hating us. And stop defining our marriages by your standards.

There is a responsibility for the church to keep sacred the image of the church because, from their point of view, souls are at steak. In cases like this, they are following doctrine. So to be angry at an organization for following it's convictions, even if you disagree, in this case are unwarranted. The church didn't stand outside and protest the ceremony, like most of you are acting. They simply didn't want participation in it.

There are several factors that are being overlooked. Why did he feel the need to wear his preist clothing? What was he trying to imply? If he was simply participating as a family member, that is one thing. He seems to be testing boundaries.

I don't think this is a Neo Nazi raid into homosexuality. The church has every right to make decisions and choices like this.

Kathy said:

Amanda? Vatican City has been around forever.

Excuse me?

The universe has been around forever. Man has not been around 'forever' and Christianity itself didn't exist until about 3-6,000 years of human history had gone by. The Council of Nicaea didn't put 'The Bible' together till AD 325, three centuries after Christ died. As for the Vatican, the Vatican's own website says:

Vatican City State was founded following the signing of the Lateran Pacts between the Holy See and Italy on February 11th 1929.

These were ratified on June 7th 1929. Its nature as a sovereign State distinct from the Holy See is universally recognized under international law.

A witch should not need to tell a Christian about their own religion's history!

Apologists for the Catholic Church: Yes, we acknowledged there is a problem within the Church with pederasts, and we are upset. Now, let's move on.

Officials for the Catholic Church: You did a reading at a gay wedding? A permanent rebuke on your record!

Wonder why I quit the Church?

I am thankfull for this verse because it lifts any responsibilty from me to tell non Christians how to live, and I thank God for that.lol. The church has bigger things to worry about, if you feel your religion is so weak or your parishoners so ignorant that it will lose its main philosophies,or edicts over this then you (arch bishops) need to reevaluate the job you are doing and the faith you have in your religion to think it so weak that people will mis understand. Once you become afraid of the secular world, then you will know you have lost some faith in the strength of your God.

Coral Taxi: You are taking this verse out of context. No where does it say that Jesus wanted people to stay in their sin. If he did, then there would be no need for him to come to earth. What is spoken in the bible over and over again is to warn the people of their impending ways. You are not removed from responsibility.

¹⁸ When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.¹⁹ But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself. Ezekial 3: 18

Even with Jesus, the whole point was to turn from sin. So for anyone out there who thinks that this verse in Ezekial doesn't apply because it is in the Old testament, then you are wrong.

Secondly, I could understand the priest that doing this was for his cousin, but it would have been better if he had left God out of it. By performing a reading, he made sure that everyone saw him as a priest who condoned this type of behavior. It would have been better if he had done nothing at all.

Coral

I would like to see source of this "recent story".

I will try to track it down for you. It was written by the father, who was an active member of a church. When his son came out, and word spread that his son had aids, the father asked the church to pray for him... they refused, and he was asked not to attend the church. Heart breaking story.

Saying Christians do not care for gay people is ultra ignorant, you are the one being the hater toward Christians.

I fully admit that I have a personal problem with Christians, all based on my personal experience with them. After attending a Baptist church, then a Calvary church, I could not stand the pure hatred I saw in every member.

Is it possible that these people do not represent the majority? Possibly. But I direct you towards the Republican debates as of late. There were auditoriums, FULL of Christians. How did they treat a gay soldier? How did these Christians react to a gay solider, sacrificing his life for us, when he came on camera? They "boo'ed" and mocked him. A stadium, FULL of Christians, showing blatant disrespect and hatred towards a soldier, just because he was gay. I can find the video if you like.

I can also point you to countless posts in these very forums, where Christians come here and express their hatred towards gays.

Now, does that mean every Christian feels this way? No, I am sure there are a select few, like you, who do not spread hatred. But I can only count on one hand the number of Christians I have personally met who would actually help a homosexual. I'm sorry that this bothers you, but that has been my personal experience with Christianity. That is all I have seen from them. If there is love in Christian people, I have never personally seen it. I can even tell you stories of the "Christians" in my very own family, the things they have said and done... I'm ashamed to be related to them.

So again... "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are nothing like your Christ."

Perhaps some day I will meet a Christian like you in person, and they will change my perception... but after this many years, I won't hold my breath.

@unhappy;

What is spoken in the bible over and over again is to warn the people of their impending ways. You are not removed from responsibility.

You are taking what I have said out of context, I am not saying we are not respobnsible to spread the word and warn others, I am saying we are relieved from having to pass judgement on them,this is Gods responsibilty not ours. capish?

I can also point you to countless posts in these very forums, where Christians come here and express their hatred towards gays.

Really? Give me just one. True Christians do not harbor hate. One who still has hate in their heart has not truly came to realizing Christ.

@mguy

So again... "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are nothing like your Christ."

One can only strive to be Christ like. I do not know to whom he was referring too. What "Christians",did he not like, just Christians in general, or was he referring to our govt?I believe he was being sarcastic here, talking of hypocrites, well saying he does not like a whole religion's people makes him a hypocrite, as he was teaching peace and acceptance. He did not understand we would never be fully like Christ on this earth, it is an impossibilty.

I am not Catholic but I am always astounded by the haters that crawl out of the cracks on any articles regarding Christianity in particular. As JoooBlooo stated, it's not an attack on gays. the church has standards that they require their members to strive for, whether anyone else agrees with that or not. The priest has other options available to him if he does not want to abide by their rules.

I do not understand some folks' need to attack Christians or Christianity and it is very popular. If you make a drawing of Jesus with a c*ck in his mouth, you are celebrated for your art and receive government grants to continue your work. If you make any kind of comment or joke about muslims, you are a bigot who needs to be killed. Wtf?

That priest had every right to chastise another priest for speaking out of turn. That priest deliberately should have known better than to provide a reading at a gay wedding looking like a priest. It would have been better had he done nothing at all.

¹⁷ I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. ¹⁸ For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Romans 16:17-18

I have news for you - if you are going by what is written in the Old Testament...you are not a Christian.

I don't know what you are but you are not a follower of Christ's teachings to love thy neighbor.

This is the reason there is a NEW testament - to end the hateful teachings of the old ways!

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone....this means no one is without sin...even another priest.

From what I see in America, I believe that people of all denominations are becoming more welcome of gays

Apparently, you didn't see the GOP Nat'l Convention. Whatever cult buildings they attend, aren't the "more welcoming" ones... But, the GOP is all about hate, so their cults will be, too.

Coral

One can only strive to be Christ like. I do not know to whom he was referring too. What "Christians",did he not like, just Christians in general, or was he referring to our govt?

I believe he was referring to Christians in general, because they do not act like Christ.

Christ healed the sick, regardless of their wealth or status. Christians today, when asked at the Republican primary debate about a person who can not afford medical care, they screamed in one voice "LET HIM DIE!" - Would you consider that "Christ-like"?

Christ warned against the money changers... Christians today hold them up as heroes and "job creators".

Christ told a rich man to give all his things to the poor and follow him, yet Christians today call this "punishment to success"... they idolize wealth, and call the poor "deadbeats".

Christ said that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to get into heaven. Christians today twist, turn, and spin that phrase into a convoluted translation that celebrates the rich. Ironically, THAT passage is up for interpretation, but the "abomination" passage is not.

Christ said "do not judge"... yet all we see are Christians judging others, and celebrating that judgmental behavior with twisted explanations of "warning people of their impending ways".

Christ gave a hungry crowd bread and fish, with no expectation of payment... now Christians scoff at the idea of food-stamps, and call the recipients lazy, worthless deadbeats.

Christ said "love thy neighbor"... Christians mock and "boo" that neighbor on live television, if he happens to be gay.

Christ said "forgive them father, for they know not what they do".... Christians today cheer for executions.

Christ was all about helping the least among men... yet homeless shelters and food banks struggle to find volunteers, while Christians flood a fast food restaurant to support their anti-gay marriage cause. Think what it would be like if Christians followed Christ's message, and flocked to homeless shelters at the same rate they flock to Chic-fil-A... what a site that would be.

Christ never once mentioned homosexuality, not once. Yet Christian organizations focus on the gay marriage issue more than any other issue facing society... the pope told nuns to help the poor less, and put more emphasis on gay marriage. Christians flood street corners and government buildings with signs opposing gay marriage... and again, you do not see these same crowds helping the poor.

Now... at this point you will no doubt begin accusing me of not following these same tenants. But remember, I am no longer a Christian who claims to follow Christ. I fully admit to the fact that I have lost faith in humanity, and see very few good people in this world. So I do not help others, as I see no point. But I also refuse to be a hypocrite, and so I do not claim to follow a religion that would make me one. I am a selfish, arrogant, a**hole... and the only difference between myself and Christians is that I am honest about it.

Coral,

Go to Unhappy's page and read some of what she's written, then come back and tell us whether she's a "true" Christian.

Coral,

My point is, your statement about "real" Christians, is a cop out. You all need to do a better job of calling out the hateful, judgmental, bigots, if you all want to be seen as anything other then just that. Simply writing them off as not "real", doesn't cut it. Take a stand against those who are so perverting what you've deemed the true message.

Otherwise, Christianity and its religions are just what some claim. Hate groups.

I second the Ghandi quote,

"I like your Christ, I do not think I like your Christians."

I third the Ghandi quote!

"I like your Christ. I do not like you Christians. You Christians are so unlike your Christ."

and the other version I've read...

"I would like you Christians more if you were more like your Christ."

@enqenq;

Most churches are all about the bigotry... thinly veiled as the word of "god". What a joke religion is.

Coral Taxi: Does this statement of yours not make you a bigot yourself, against those with religion? I am not a fan of "organized religion" either but I do not have hate or pejudice against anyone, you seem to be bigoted against the religous yourself, so please take a look in the mirror sir.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh baloney. that's like saying "because someone hates Hitler or the Nazi party, they're a bigot..."

And please don't tell me that's a far-fetched comparison. that foul goddam Pedophile Catholic Cult has raped/abused/molested tens of thousands of children. Among the countless number of other crimes against humanity it has delivered our planet and people over the millenia.

Defending this Foul Cult is a Fool's Errand, CT. Deal with it.

@ frog;

Coral Taxi: Does this statement of yours not make you a bigot yourself, against those with religion? I am not a fan of "organized religion" either but I do not have hate or pejudice against anyone, you seem to be bigoted against the religous yourself, so please take a look in the mirror sir.

Not at all. I do not hate anyone who decides to join a religion. I said I am not a fan of organized religion. I did not say all religions are a joke as the poster did. That is bigotry. How you treat myself and others is what I care about. Even when I explain that this is not a hate or prejudice of those with religion,you still come at me with this?lol

Bigotry;stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

@ sarah;

My point is, your statement about "real" Christians, is a cop out. You all need to do a better job of calling out the hateful, judgmental, bigots, if you all want to be seen as anything other then just that. Simply writing them off as not "real", doesn't cut it. Take a stand against those who are so perverting what you've deemed the true message

What I said was true Christians. There is only so much time in a day. I just spent 3 days battling atheistS, in a back and forth on a vine last week. I battle atheistS for years on cosmology,evolution, do not sit here and tell me I need to do a better job calling them out, I have became a pro at it.lol I take a stand believe me. My posts get collapsed without violating the COH by atheistS because they are boggled by my perspectives,they actually get angry start writing in caps, that is when I know I got to them. They do not want to hear what could be truth, and how I break it down for them, without using all the"fairy tale" stuff they bust on.

"Writing them off as unreal"

what does that mean ?lol

Ghandi's comment was crass, and sarcastic, not very "Ghandi" like. To say "I do not like Christians" is also biased. Then to go on and preach tolerance?lol

myspellcheckerisbroken: I am not Catholic but I am always astounded by the haters that crawl out of the cracks on any articles regarding Christianity in particular.

Oh, I don't find it astounding at all. With the amount of hate that pours out of christians toward other people, I find it rather synchronous that the same amount of hatred comes right back at them. Most people call that "getting back exactly what you dish out to people." Others simply call it KARMA.

As JoooBlooo stated, it's not an attack on gays.

Sure it is. Only a coward would suggest otherwise. Believers always need someone to hate. They cherry-pick the tenets out of the BuyBull which they think they can twist just enough into an anti-gay "statement from gawd", and use that as their Bulldozer to shred other peoples' lives. All the while, they ignore the other BuyBull tenets all around it -- and, exactly as you would guess, those others are tenets that would make their own lives inconvenient if they actually adhered to them.

the church has standards that they require their members to strive for,

Right. The Pedophile Catholic Cult. The world's Moral Compass! (make me gag!)

whether anyone else agrees with that or not. The priest has other options available to him if he does not want to abide by their rules.

Yeah, like butt-raping children -- which rarely (if ever) draws any discipline from the church...

I do not understand some folks' need to attack Christians or Christianity and it is very popular. If you make a drawing of Jesus with a c*ck in his mouth, you are celebrated for your art and receive government grants to continue your work. If you make any kind of comment or joke about muslims, you are a bigot who needs to be killed. Wtf?

Only a christian would make this kind of monologue about how the church is NOT about discrimination and hate -- then sound disappointed at how unfair and disappointing it is because we're not supposed to make fun of one of the other religions...

WOW.

@ frog;

Oh, I don't find it astounding at all. With the amount of hate that pours out of christians toward other people,

Give me one example of a Christian hating you personally? This will not be possible because true Christians do not hate. Once again you seem to be more of the hater here. Christians are about sacrifice, and giving not hate.

Believers always need someone to hate.

This as most of your diatribe is false, you seem to be the true true hater here sir.

Oh baloney. This garbage about "well, then s/he isn't a true christian" is a cowardly cop-out.

The hatred spewed from mainstream christians in this country is endless. That you attempt to whitewash it is pure cowardly nonsense.

Coral Taxi - Give me one example of a Christian hating you personally? This will not be possible because true Christians do not hate.

Sounds like you're an advocate of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

We should show pity for Frogmorton. He was anally raped by someone claiming to be Catholic and now hates anyone associated with religion. Although many disagree with his statements, it is easy to see why he feels that way, so please go easy on him. It's not his fault. It's not your fault Frogmorton. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.........

I agree 100% with frogmorton....every time some fresh atrocity committed by self-proclaimed religious people gets quickly swept aside by some theist claiming "they aren't a TRUE christian" I want to shake them. They don't care that their religion isn't making any of them more moral....they only care about how their religion is perceived. So the second one of them screws up, they are tossed off the bus faster than you can say "pass the basket".

It's sickening.

Religion in this country alone has gone after jews, blacks, women, atheists, muslims and gays in it's short history. Not hateful? Treating people like second class is always hate and there has never been a time when they weren't actively trying to do that to someone.

Islam has several.

LOL. The GOP turns to a whackadoo Mormon cultist to lead them. Yet, 4 years ago, mormonism was the Laughingstock Cult of the republican party.

They have no values.

It's the church's right to rebuke the priest. Maybe the priest will now realize what an evil organization he belongs to and leave it (like so many others do every day).

Linda, I wonder if you'd agree that the priest should shun his cousin completely if the RCC hierarchy ordered him to.

Linda is correct that Catholics are obligated to follow the Church's teachings. However, the Church is also obligated to promulgate teachings that are correct. This is yet another example of how the Church’s teachings in many areas of morality have become themselves morally corrupt. Catholics are therefore under no obligation to follow them; indeed, when Church teachings are corrupt, good Catholics are morally obligated to oppose them in every way they can.

You are right. I hope the priest can look into his heart and realize that any organization that would punish someone for participating in a family wedding is no longer following in the footsteps of Christ. There are many other faith traditions that would look upon his actions as a family value instead of sin.

Linda. The BuyBull says that women should shut their mouths while in church. And if you have any questions, shut the hell up until you get home, and then ask the MAN your questions...

1 Corinthians14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

So, please remember that the next time you're in church -- just keep your damm mouth shut until you get home -- any questions, ask your MAN, and he'll answer if he feels like it. But, give him a few minutes to have a beer first before you start nagging at him.

Yeah, the BuyBull and it's biggest single cult. Something to be REALLY proud of... If YOU, Linda, followed all the "rules" of the BuyBull, you'd hate yourself just for being female.

That foul goddam book is the single greatest practical joke ever played on mankind. That people still believe in that mythical, cultist nonsense shows just how dumbed-down we are as a human race.

Yea, agree with whatever is shoved down your throat. The Roman hierarchy is a male chauvinistic good ol boys club. They need more courageous men like Martin Luther. Luther wrote in his letter to Pope Leo that the church of Rome was once the gateway to heaven but was now (in his day) the road to hell because of it's corruption and misleading the people. WOW! You can read more of his specific charges in his book "On Christian Liberty." Just because a church teaches an idea does not make it right. Hundreds of years of tradition can be very blinding. Actually, what right do "priests" have to even talk about marriage when they themselves are forbidden to enjoy the benefits of marriage? None!

Did you read about the Bishop of Kansas City today? Got 2 years probation for hiding a child molester. Where's HIS 'rebuke', hypocrite!

The church isnt obligated to teach anything the church doesnt obligate on itself. I think you still have a little koolaid on your upper lip. ;)

LindaM: "...obligated to follow Church teachings...." In one sense, yes. But not blindly. Not without thinking, since we are not sheep. Not when it is based on one rule / prohibition from Leviticus when other rules / prohibitions in that same O.T. list are ignored because changes in society over the centuries have made them inappropriate or ridiculous. This is about decisions of selective enforcement made by humans. Think about it. And even if you still agree, what trumps a list of rules made by priests to teach and control? A Commandment -- something about Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother. Family respect. Family obligations. Please think about it. I am disappointed the Father agreed to never again participate in any capacity in a same-sex ceremony. He should have stood his ground.

Linda M-311663 - This priest is ordained and as part of the Catholic clergy, is obligated to follow Church teachings.

Catholicism has no personal conscience clause?

Many nuns in America would disagree.

Ladybren, Why are you disappointed that Father Devito said he would refrain from doing same sex marriages in the future? Could it be that he believes in his vows as a catholic priest and doesn't believe in same sex marriage. It could be that he only agreed to his cousin's ceremony because it's family. We shouldn't run wild with speculation that some form of rebellion is taking place within the Catholic Church. Most Catholics and most religious people do care and respect everyone, but they must dislike the sin. However you may feel about the Catholic Church, it's law and rules, it is their right as a religious organization to set forth the obligations that their congregation and priests must follow.

Zahrohan, running wild with speculation, .... incited by profiling and stereotyping and fueled by bigotry, intolerance and hatred is the modus operandi of the target demographic of your insightful and fair minded message.

Running wild in all of it's forms is part of the mob mentality.

It is simply fascinating how such a large volume of intelligent, highly educated people can be brainwashed to the point of moth, or lemming-like adherence to their programmer's cool-aide. Even to the point of wishing any dissenters from that perspective as early a departure from the planet as possible, in the greatest numbers that can be processed while still keeping the whole process within the parameters of a "green" operation.

Their church, their rules. Don't like it? Don't be a catholic.

I'm speaking as a straight atheist who condemns anti-gay legislation.

He wore the collar, he should be rebuked. He was not there saving any souls. I like how everyone wants others to adapt to their rules. If you do not like the church do not go. If you want to work for the church follow the rules. He knew he should not wear the collar, he did it on purpose, that is why he was rebuked.

I think that priest was either really short-sighted or he knew what he was doing. He might have intentionally decided to condone the marriage as a Catholic Priest. In which case, it is time for him to leave the church, if he feels that he can't agree with what it says.

Corruption in priests is never good. Whether it is by child abuse, or condoning gay marriage... what are these priests telling the people when they do this? God requires discipline of his followers; we are not of this world anymore.

Corruption in priests is never good.

They are employees of the world's largest Crime Family. That's like saying "corruption of one of the Soprano's crew is never good."

WTF is the matter with you? Do you ever use your brain??

Because it suppresses human freedom and dignity??

Because it, ocne again, shows how morally corrupt these foul cults really are. They elevate hatred and discrimination over all else.

Where is all their rebuking of priests who rape children? Instead, they smack down a priest who honored a legal marraige ceremony of someone in his family.

Get real, hon!

"When did I say, don't forget the fancy robes and big hats?"

Probably when he taught the apostles to use the "jazz hands" after finishing each sermon.

I sincerely doubt Christ would recognize any Christian denomination today as practicing much of anything he taught.

I'm sure he wouldnt be thrilled to see himself being crucified in effigy or symbolically eaten every week.

peanutGalleryTheater - I'm sure he wouldnt be thrilled to see himself being crucified in effigy or symbolically eaten every week.

It's not merely symbolic cannibalism if you're a Catholic, it's the real thing.

In reality it's a pagan ritual added to a Jewish theology. Jesus would be dumbfounded. "WTF are you DOING?"

And I believe that Jesus was also critical of the Jewish church hierarchy at the time....He'd love the pope's digs and robes and red Prada shoes, I'm sure.

Most of the christian (and jewish) stories are redux from older/pagan religions. Even the 10 commandments come from the egyptian book of the dead written in hieroglyphics around 3500 BC.

skrekk, So now you are demonizing cannibals?

Inadvertently or not, our mocking comment happens to step on the customs and traditions of several indigenous tribes on the island of Java in Indonesia.

Of course, we all know that according to profiling guidelines, traditions and customs as adhered to by the race of humans with a skin pigmentation level resulting in their classification as "white", ..... are to be disdained and derided as the embodiment of bigotry, whilst any such practice by any group other than a caucasian one is to be respected as a part of their culture.

At this time it is incumbent upon this writer to inform you that, despite your "beliefs"..... these cherry-picking and hypocritical, inconsistencies with the core values you are on a crusade to promote, qualify you for membership in the pseudo-liberal demographic.

Hearty congratulations are therefore extended in your direction.

Kathy said:

And I believe that Jesus was also critical of the Jewish church hierarchy at the time....He'd love the pope's digs and robes and red Prada shoes, I'm sure.

Does not the Bible say 'It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God'?

I'm sure he wouldnt be thrilled to see himself being crucified in effigy or symbolically eaten every week.

You guys need help. This idea of communion is based upon symbolism. For example:

⁹ I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10: 9

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he
will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. John 15: 5

Doesn't mean that Jesus was actually a gate, with hinges and a lock? Or a vine with leaves and branches? I can guarantee you, that no disciple at the table thought that piece of bread was actually the body of Christ.

Unhappy, the problem you are facing here in your attempt to communicate, it that all parties concerned must receive messages as well as send them.

You're dealing with a hate fueled mob which only sends messages and attacks those who attempt to present views different from it's own.

Unintelligent: You guys need help. This idea of communion is based upon symbolism. For example:

Oh. SYMBOLIC cannibalism. Well, that makes it much more reasonable.... (eye roll)

Unhappy-1583758 - This idea of communion is based upon symbolism.

Ummmmm.......Catholicism has the doctrine of transubstantiation which means the cannibalism is real, not symbolic.

If you're Catholic you believe it's the flesh of a corpse that you're eating, not merely a cracker.

Kinda like if you are black you probably shouldn't join the KKK.

Or like if you're atheist, you shouldn't be quoting what Jesus says.

Or if you're christian; don't go to church; because they sure don't teach CHRIST in there anymore.

Unhappy-1583758: Or like if you're atheist, you shouldn't be quoting what Jesus says.

That's a pretty stupid suggestion. If i don't believe in wizards, I can't watch Harry Potter? If you let your children hunt easter eggs, does that mean you are signaling to the world that you believe the Easter Bunny is real? People can read/study fiction -- whether it's the fictional HP books or your fictional BuyBull.

You prove, time and time again, that you have NO IDEA what LOGIC is or how to apply it.

Besides, with xains flouting and cramming the edited/invented words of their mythical jesus-creature upon everyone in our society, it's their own goddam fault if people regurgitate it right back in their faces.

Even though God said the homosexual act is a sin? Why would God be pleased at what is considered a sin?

Man of Steel said:

Why would God be pleased at what is considered a sin?

Because what Fr. DeVito did wasn't a sin! Nowhere in the bible does it say that 'Thou shalt not speak at a gay wedding.'

What it does say? Well, let's see, love the sinner, hate the sin comes to mind.

Honor thy father and mother (and brother and sister...)

Bring the word of God to others, that they may hear and repent of their sinfulness...

Those for starters.

Because of this verse and because he was a priest. He shouldn't have done it, knowing that people would see him as a priest when he spoke.

¹⁷ I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. ¹⁸ For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Romans 16: 17-18

Where are those scriptures? . "Honor thy father and mother for it is the first commandment with promise".

That is one of the ten commandments as far as the other "scriptures", I dont know where those are at.

God destroyed a city due to Homosexuality. Homosexuality is mentioned several times as an abomination. Read your BIBLE before teliing us what it says.

Allegedly "god" destroyed the city. I'm sure; somewhere out there is a zealot blaming the earthquakes on our "sinfulness" (Can you say Westboro Wack Jobs?). Simple fact is; we now know what causes earthquakes; weather patterns and tsunamis. So; uneducated people would believe this to be an act of god. I disagree... these were merely natural phenomena (sic?). Keep your religion; I prefer to understand FACT, EVIDENCE and SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY.

Man of Steel: Even though God said the homosexual act is a sin? Why would God be pleased at what is considered a sin?

You can't even prove your cult god exists, or any other god-creature for that matter. Suggesting you know what some "god" said, because you read about it in a man-made cult book full of unprovable, mythological stories, is pretty ignorant. Your cult book also prohibits divorce, in sevreal locations throughout the new mythical testament -- anti-divorce directives attirbuted to yoru jesus-myth, in fact. But xians ignore those rules by the millions each year. No outrage about it. No protests to ban divorce. You ignore it. Because none of you cowards want to live by any of your cult rules that woudl make your own lives inconvenient. So you ignore the words of your jesus-myth, and jump all over the words of morons like Saul of Tarsus -- you figure that his hatred for women and gays gives you every right to carry forward your own. And because you're ignoring things like the rules about divorce, you make up for it by burning witches, and today, smacking down gays and women every chance you get.

yeah, i bet you all make your jesus-myth really proud. (NOT)

Hey unintelligent. Just an FYI for you --- quoting your mythical cult book, no matter how much you quote it, doesn't make it real or factual. It's still an unprovable mythical cult book that mentions a god which, even after 2000 years, you've all been unable to prove its existence.

Cheers!

Even though God said the homosexual act is a sin?

Really? And, please don't cite Leviticus unless you are prepared to explain why right-living Christians aren't enforcing the other restrictions that it quotes. Does the GOP have a platform plank opposing Red Lobster restaurants?

The RCC is a bizarre organization.

The RCC is a bizarre organization.

And, that's saying it KINDLY...

You are a great father. Your daughter is lucky to have someone in her life like you. I'm an atheist, so I don't believe the whole god thing, but I do agree that your daughter is just fine the way she is.

One of the best, humane posts around. And it shows the bankruptcy of the leadership of the RCC. What a disgrace that bunch is.

Thank you EngEsq, I have said I may just need the direction more than others. Even though you don't believe, God Bless!

Love is not the issue.

The lying down with another woman like a man is. Like a man lying down with another man like a woman. Definitionally, a woman is a man, but a man with a womb.

Ex post facto, a marriage is between a man and a woman, a man with a womb, irrespective of religion or morality.

Hence, the wife is only partially right, however, since the outcome of her daughter's relationship has yet to be determined as the seeds of her prayers have not yet ripen in the hearts of her husband and daughter.

The episcopal church that you speak of is leading thousands of people to hell. They are making God into their own image, because there is NOTHING in the bible that would condone this type of behavior. They are becoming tools for Satan.

¹⁷ I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. ¹⁸ For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Romans 16: 17-18

Thanks Opinions! You have a great day too!

Oh and ignore these other fools that can't get their heads out of their a$$es. It's none of their business and the majority of us wish the best for you and your family.

Unintelligent: The episcopal church that you speak of is leading thousands of people to hell.

Prove it. Oh, you can't... You can't even prove your mythical hell-place exists...

They are making God into their own image, because there is NOTHING in the bible that would condone this type of behavior. They are becoming tools for Satan.

Again, with your mythical creatures... You can't prove your god-creature exists, or your satan-creature. Time to grow up and stop sucking your thumb, punkin!

As a Gay male, i only wish that i had the love and support of my father. I haven't spoken to him in over 7 years, and he didn't even look my direction at my grandfather's (his dad) funneral. Oh well for me I guess. Bless you and your family, and everyone.

brainwashing

And THAT is the key word when it comes to any religion.

I think the venial sin to mortal sin exchange rate is dependent upon the LIBOR rate... or was it the strength of the yen?? It's all so confusing once the zombie comes back from the dead!

That's now spelled LIEBOR. Not getting your memos? :)

And what I do with my wife in the bedroom isn't marriage either. Otherwise I'd have been married to a number of my earlier flings. What makes a marriage is commitment, love and a hell of a lot of hard work.

And those things can be universal regardless of the spouses gender.

Ryan - it is a 'fact' for your life. Not everyone elses. Hence, that why every a$$hole has an opinion.

Christians don't own marriage. It's not their property. You hate gays, that's your cross to burn. Don't inflict your bigotry on others. It's really none of your business.

Actually, it orginally WAS their's. It was a religion RITE. But back then, the wife was the property being transferred so..... things improve over time.

Hey, Ryan: you don't own the word "marriage".

Deal with it.

peanutGalleryTheater - Actually, it orginally WAS their's. It was a religion RITE.

The church wasn't generally involved in marriage prior to the Council of Trent in the mid-1500s. Marriage has always been a legal contract about property rights.

Actually, it orginally WAS their's. It was a religion RITE. But back then, the wife was the property being transferred so..... things improve over time.

Actually, you're WRONG. Civil marriage predates organized religion by thousands of years. Religion did not involve itself in marriage until around the mid-1500s. And in this secular nation, legal marriage is strictly a civil contract.

peanut - what you say is true but Christianity was certainly not the first or only religion to have marriage as a religious rite so how come they have decided they have the right to make all the rules regarding it?

What to gay men do in the bedroom is not marriage.

Exactly! Neither is what heterosexual couples do. What people do in the bedroom is not marriage.

Marriage is a commitment to give your love, passion and self to another consenting adult.

How you @!$%# is another story.

So people who don't mind calling it a "civil union" object to calling it "marriage." Why? Is this a club that you don't want "those people" joining? It if's all the same thing, why object?

Ryan evidently confuses sex with marriage.

Because its not the same thing. Sheeeeesh.

Skrekk, I knew about the legal contract thing but not about Trent. tks for that.

Tired, Since most/all aspects of any religion are redux of previous religions, I dont make much distinction RE "pagans". I considered it part of religious sovereignty (aka monopoly on "legitimate" violence) that they set rules for THEIR members while trying to force those views on other others or forceably convert them.

Gee. Ryan is from Texas. Who'd have ever guessed that....

Actually he should just leave the church.

Bruce-917111.. he could only be so lucky. This man is more religious than the Pope himself. He showed support for a family member, I praise the stance he took in going to the union/wedding and doing the reading. I am wondering what church performed the ceremony.

The Archbishop didn't sleep with any men. It would have only been young boys. A friend of mine grew up near a boys' Catholic college back in the '60's. She said there were rumors back then about underground passages from the Priests' quarters to the dormitories.

As for the Nuns, I am not Catholic, but I totally back the American Nuns being threatened with excommunication. They are doing the work of Jesus, the way that Mother Teresa did - helping the poor and homeless. I am sure there are other orders of Nuns that can carry out the anti-woman and anti-gay propaganda that the Church wants these brave Nuns to do.

Their "hammer for a thumbtack" mentality says more about their need for control than it does for sharing the words of love and understanding of their god.

The current leadership of the church is nothing more than a bunch of reactionary narcissists, preening and primping to show how much they want the govt to regulate sex, all the while ignoring the real problems facing the country

And by "current", I assume you mean the last 1700 years or so?

Joe in VA, is it the archbishop that publicized it or do you even know? I would guess that it's just as likely, if not more so, that the gay cousin of the priest and some gay activist friends were the ones to publicize this so that they could make a big deal out of something that probably started out quiet, simple church business.

I am sure, as the article pretty clearly states, that if the priest had not worn his collar while actually participating in the wedding rather than attending that none of this would have happened.

Whatever happened to "live and let live?" I don't agree with gay marriage. I believe that there is something wrong in the brain of someone who is gay that causes them to go against the natural biology of their physical being. I don't believe that makes them bad people. The ONLY problem I have with homosexuals is that they try to FORCE EVERYONE to believe that they are right and we are wrong and that anyone who disagrees must be a bigot and full of hate. To me that makes them just as much of a bigot and just as intolerant, if not more, than they accuse me or anyone who doesn't agree with them of being.

Me in Idaho - The ONLY problem I have with homosexuals is that they try to FORCE EVERYONE to believe that they are right and we are wrong and that anyone who disagrees must be a bigot and full of hate.

You're most definitely a bigot if you think gays shouldn't have the exact same legal rights as yourself.

Then I'm obviously not a bigot because I never said they shouldn't have the same legal rights. Whew! Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Me in Idaho, I could almost bet you have no gay family or friends. I have friends who are gay and daughter who is lesbian. Not one of these people try to push their life on me. I accept that these people are made by God and God makes no mistakes. I want to know who gave you the right to judge another persons life?

I do have friends that are gay. I also have a relative that I believe is gay and has been in the closet his whole life and been miserable because of it. I have told him that I would love him no matter what and that I would just like to see him be able to be happy.

I do accept that they were made by god and that god makes no mistakes, but he doesn't make everyone perfect. I also don't base my beliefs about homosexuality on religion and morality. I just simply don't believe it's right. I believe I do things that aren't right but I'm not shouting from the rooftops for people to agree with the things that I do wrong and calling them bigots because they disagree with me. People are entitled to their opinions and that is mine. I usually keep my opinions on the matter to myself, but I am just sick and tired of seeing people be attacked and called hateful things just because they express their opinions and those opinions happen to differ from someone elses.

LIVE and LET LIVE!!!! That means if you are gay, fine, you think it's okay and your entitled to live that way, BUT I am also to entitled to hold my own opinions and to think that's it's not right if I want to. And just because I don't agree doesn't mean I hate or that I don't think everyone should be entitled to the same legal rights. So, quit putting words into my mouth to try and make me sound like the bigot you think I am.

Me in Idaho - Skrekk pretty much hits it on the head - I don't care if you like me or think the way I live my life is right but I go to work and pay my taxes and deserve the same legal rights as everyone else in this country. Including the right to live my life relatively free of harrassment and believe me I am not looking to harrass you either. But many straight people seem to think our very existence or normal human behaviour such as talking to coworkers about the trip my partner and kids took to Mt. Rushmore last labor day is shoving our lifestyle down their throat. Yet hetersexual coworkers feel free to tell me about the hot babe they boinked last weekend and that is not shoving their lifestyle down my throat? I don't get it.

As far as going against natural biology of our physical being - well yes it is true that we cannot reproduce but humans naughty bits and sex are used by heterosexuals in many ways that do not cause reproduction either so I don't see this as a huge abberation. More like one of the varieties of human sexuality. Maybe even a natural form of bith control to try to control overpopulation.

Again, I am not trying to force you to believe my lifestyle is right. I would just like to be treated with civility as I try to treat everyone else, even those with which I strongly disagree. If you disagreed with interracial marriages would you believe you had the legal right to disallow them? Or would you feel that interracial couples walking down the street hand in hand is forcing you to be okay with their lifestyle? I don't want special rights, just the same as everyone else including the right to make a legal committment to my partner and receive all the rights and obligations that go with it.

Me in Idaho - Then I'm obviously not a bigot because I never said they shouldn't have the same legal rights. Whew! Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Perhaps you can reconcile your "obviously not being a bigot" with your statement that you "don't agree with gay marriage", and your statement that gays are trying to force you what to believe.

I'm a straight guy so I can't speak for any gay folks, but I seriously doubt anyone really cares what a dumb bigot thinks.....they just want equal rights under the law.

As Tired says above, "not agreeing with gay marriage" is a lot like "not agreeing with mixed-race marriage". You're in good company though since 60% of the Mississippi GOP still doesn't agree with mixed-race marriage.

Tire of all the hypocrits - I appreciate the civility of your comment and the fact that you didn't try to put words in my mouth. Thank you.

What I meant by my comment about going against natural biology is that I believe we were created, by God or the Big Bang or whatever, the way we were for a reason and therefore do not believe homosexuality is "natural." Again, that doesn't mean that I believe all homosexuals are bad people or that they don't deserve the same rights. And I think it's unfortunate that some people feel that I'm hateful or intolerant or bigoted just because I hold that personal belief.

As far as my comment about homosexuals trying to force others that their way is right and ours is wrong............I'm talking about activists who do things like boycott Chik-fil-a just because their CEO doesn't support gay marriage. That's just one example. I used to have a young single gay friend at work who used to talk about his dates and his boyfriends, etc. I never felt he was trying to "shove his lifestyle down my throat." I'm talking about the people, and they are out there, that feel that they need to convince the world that their way of life is natural and that anyone who disagrees with them is a bigot.

Tolerance goes both ways and tolerance doesn't require unwaivering agreement; facts that a lot of people in this country seem to have forgotten.

skrekk -

Bigot noun - a person who is totally intolerant of any differing creed, belief or opinion

I feel a little silly because I just realized I did say "I don't agree with gay marriage." That was not what I intended to say. I was caught up in the heat of the moment. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it either. I'm kind of on the fence when it comes to gay marriage. And regardless whether I agree or disagree does not make me intolerant. I have already stated that I do believe that everyone is entitled to the same rights.

Regarding the comment about homosexuals trying to force me what to believe please refer to my last comment to tired of all the hypocrits.

Tolerance - a fair, objective and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc. differ from ones own; freedom from bigotry.

So, is referring to me as a "dumb bigot" because I disagree with others what one might call tolerance? Is comparing me to southern racists because I disagree tolerance?

Me In Idaho:

You being referred to as a "dumb bigot" stems entirely from the "dumb" things you have said in the previous comments.

So far you have: Called homosexuals mentally unstable and unnatural, Claimed homosexuals are trying to FORCE their lifestyle upon you (which is highly doubtful), and then went on to whine about how "if I don't agree then I am a bigot!" No. You are a bigot because you tell lies, call others names, point out and show disgust towards any flaw in another that you do not approve of, try to cover up your lies and name-calling with "but I have gay friends!", etc.

By the way, the "reason" you claim behind people boycotting Chick-fil-a is wrong. People boycotted Chick-fil-a not (wholly) because their CEO decided to stand against homosexual marriage but because that CEO was using money gained from Chick-fil-a's business to support hateful and discriminatory groups who try to project homosexuals as pedophiles, want to make "gay behavior" illegal, want to get homosexuals "exported" from America, and believe in "pray the gay away". Also, Dan Cathy said (in his speech against homosexual marriage) that "same-sex marriage is the result of a deprived mind full of twisted up kind of stuff." I don't know about you, but if someone said that to/about me, my friends, or my family, then I would consider that person to be a hateful bigot who should not be running a "family business" because he is obviously intolerant of the homosexual sons and daughters of Americans.

I think episcopalian is the preferred halfway religion for escaping catholics. ;)

Pelosi and Biden abandoned the Church a long time ago. Just because you SAY you are Catholic does not mean you are...

The problem is people like you like to tell half truths. Who is saying God hates gays? What they are saying committing a homosexual
act is a sin and condoning that is not allowed.

Thats the problem with religion. Nobody is quite sure what God thinks. All they have to go on is a bunch of stories rewritten from previous religions by a committee in Nicaea 1700 years ago.

Willl do we live in the same country? Where churches condemn people for been gay? Or those that carry posters saying God hate fags? You either fail at comprehend my point or dont live in this country or haven't read trough all the post.

LoloBond, where in your Christian religion does it say that you can't promote homosexuality? If you point to the Bible and Scripture as the source (as most do), then how do you say homosexuality is wrong because the Bible tells you so, but the Bible also tells you to let city elders stone your unruly and drunkard children to death? Not to mention all of the other inconsisties and oddities.

Neither the Almighty Father nor Jesus nor the Catholic Church nor Chick-file hate gay people. To say that is a fabrication that is just not true. But there is no support for gay marriage because marriage is between a man and a woman. Now, you can say you are married, you can have a big party, you can make a big deal about it, and your friends can all go around saying you are married. But it just is not so. Marriage is between a man and a woman. You can then say that we should just redefine marriage. But that would be like me saying that I am an airplane and then when people disagree then I would say that we should redefine the word airplane. But here is the bottom line, even if you redefine the word airplane that will still not make me an fly.

Mark,

I apologize, but that was a really, really stupid analogy.

marriage is between a man and a woman.

You've actually redefined marriage. Marriage is between a white man and a white woman, or a black man and a black woman.

Oh, wait, that was also a redefinition. Marriage is a contract for when a man purchases his wife. There we go, the tradition definition of marriage.

So how come you can redefine marriage but no one else can?

Marriage is a contract between two consenting adults. See how easy that was. Not a huge redefinition. But it can still fly.

Mark, people like you (ooooh, I sound just like Mrs. Romney!!) will deny gay people marriage....and then condemn them for being promiscuous. The divorce rate in the us is 50% and marriage is down amongst heteros. The only people who REALLY want to get married is the gay people. I say go for it. How does a gay couple being married affect you? Or your marriage? I've been married 28 years (to a man) and live in Mass. where we've had gay marriage for 8 years. Funny, hasn't affected me at all. It's almost like nothing's happened. And it hasn't, to me. But for the gay people in Mass. it's given them validation and the rights of all married people.

God did not make mistakes man does. You have to choose
to commit the act of homosexuality, and if you do it’s a sin.

If a manufacturer makes a defective product we don't sue the product, we sue the manufacturer for making a mistake.

Sooo, if humans are flawed, then our designer made us flawed, and is therefore culpable. Or we were not made by a god, which is far more likely.

You are saying "Gay people" are deffective?

Will, please prove that homosexuality is a choice.

Having raised a gay daughter I can guarantee you homosexuality is not a choice. I could tell this girl was gay when she was a small child. What a great kid she is, college graduate, never been in trouble with the law, never did I worry about her hitting the bath salts chewing someones face off. And a regular church attendance, I know she is a better christian than the ones in here spewing their hatred, how do I know this? Because even though you can knock her for who she is, she would still help you out in a minute because that sir is the way she was raised. So will if she is on her way to hell my friend, she and I will shake your hand when we get there.

No will, I'm saying either there is no god, or you have to believe gay people are fine the way they are. The two positions that you hold are logically incompatible.