Crazy world Mahmoud lives in, anyway.

Yet you bought where you knew there were HOAs.

I don't live under the finger of a HOA and I never will. As far as I'm concerned, unless the HOA wants to pay a minimum of 25% of ALL of the living expenses of ALL of the people in their neighborhood they have NO RIGHT to dictate to ANYONE what they can and cannot do with private property. An HOA is simply a case of control freaks gone wild.

My husband deserved better than this, he was a good man

Thanks pjam09...well stated and oh so totally accurate. Watch now as all the 'do-gooders' and 'rights advocates' rise to the front to be certain this low life scum bag killer gets all kinds of breaks! Could this be a hate crime, ah, of course not....just another believer doing what he learned in childhood. As pj noted, what if the victim and the perpetrator were reversed? Well, hell yes, it would have heinous hate crime. Now??

That's funny... as I was growing up, my folks taught me that ALL murders were hate crimes. I mean, you have to really hate someone to end his/her life....

We All and Elektro....

Come to Montgomery County Maryland and find me a neighborhood WITHOUT a HOA.

Sorry, I don't wanna live in Veirs Mill Village. Good luck finding another neighborhood in this county that doesn't have a HOA.

I'm not going to commute 50 miles to work just to avoid a HOA.

Which is why I would never move to Montgomery county or anywhere else that was the only choice! It's damn big country and a whole hell of a lot of places to live and work without being told what you can do with your own land!

There are jobs here Airborne. Good jobs. I moved here 23 years ago and I still LOVE IT.

I seethe with every $63 check I cut to my HOA. But I sure do LOVE living in Montgomery County MD. It's a GREAT place to live and well worth the small inconvenience of living under a HOA.

Harold, though SOME rules and regulations are needed in life, I feel that most times we go over board with it, and over rule and regulate ourselves to the point of going beyond ridicules. I have a friend who bought a small plot of land in the country and built his home on it. Within ten years there were houses built all around him. His neighbors got together and wanted to create a home owners association. When they asked him to join, he flat out told them no. As he told them, he was the first one to build there, just to get away from having people living so close, that you couldn't even step out on the porch without a neighbor knowing it. He told them he could live with what he now has around him as far as neighbors go, as long as they keep their attention focused on their own properties and business, and will leave him alone. He told me his neighbors would not let up on him about joining, going as far as pestering him once a week about it. He totally got fed up with it, and told them politely to let him alone. They didn't, so he got a restraining order put on them. He said they finally got the point through their heads that he just wanted to be left to live his own life without someone else telling him what he can and can't do with his own property.

Really Kayla? I would ask you for proof, but I know it's nothing more than your own idea of a sick joke.

lets take a moment to read:

"A city land-use document says that after neighbors complained, officials determined a driveway in front of the home was put in without a permit and that it violated city code as it did not lead to a garage or carport or to the rear of the home. A fence was built too high and without the required setback in violation of city codes, too, the document said. The Spring Creek Homeowner’s Association contacted city staff and provided several records about the history the case, the document says.

did anyone catch the "in violation of city codes"

we all know you just can not build a fence to high then what the city will not allow

we all know tht when you put in new drive ways you hcae to get a permit

I've bought two houses in my life and both were in HOAs. I read the rules to make sure none of them conflicted with what I wanted to do, then signed on the dotted line. If you can't read, then your HOA is going to be a problem for you.

Personally, I appreciate not having junk cars next door or trash in the front yard or living next to 10 dogs. If you want these things, then you'll have to live in a trashier neighborhood than an HOA typically allows.

Hey AG99:

I agree with your post, don't sign if you don't want it...I didn't; so I went with the acreage putting the "gated community" on the rear property line and shielded out of sight by the woods! Problem is, it's their damn dogs that keep getting out coming on to my property! I catch them and take them back because we're still friends!

Good luck finding a newer housing project that doesn't have an HOA.

I submit my requests just like the by laws say and they never get back to me - so I just build it anyway.

Nobody even goes to our HOA meetings, maybe that's because half of them don't pay the dues and many of these homes turned into rentals - since they are under water and can't sell the homes.

I want to start by apologizing to Vivian for some of the tasteless comments on this thread. I'm sorry that most of these people have missed the point. This shouldn't be a discussion on the evils of HOA's. This is about someone who ended another persons life for absolutely no justifiable reason. He was wrong going against the HOA rules and, instead of correcting the problem, he thought best to kill someone? The fact that he brought a gun to an HOA meeting in the first place might tell you that this was his plan all along. HOA regulations may suck, but they aren't bad enough to warrant taking someone's life. You're right, Vivian, your husband deserved better. My condolences to you and your family. May God be with you and help you through this Vivian. Take care.

My neighborhood has a Home Owner's Association.

Each and every "officer" on the HOA Board is retired male.

Each and every officer on the HOA board is certified "busybody" (certifiable a**hole) with WAY too much time on their hands and bereft of hobbies to keep them otherwise productively occupied.

The a**holes busybodies officers treat their "big fish in a tiny pond" positions on the HOA board as their license and free pass to have their noses in every single decision that home owners in the neighborhood make over our own properties (whether or not it is in the purview of the board under the bylaws of the HOA).

Earlier this Summer my house was being painted while I was on Holiday. I returned to learn from neighbors that the 'president' of the HOA had "ordered" the painters to "stop work" on my home and sent them away because he, and he alone, had determined that the color palette for my house was not approved (NOTE: It was being repainted in the exact same color palette and color numbers it has ALWAYS been since it's construction. By the HOA agreement the colors are therefore grandfathered and do not need approval).

I was "summoned" to the next scheduled meeting of the HOA in August, whereupon I presented the facts and evidence to the a**holes busybodies officers, proving that the house was being repainted with no change in colors, and the board therefore voted 4 to 1 for "approval" (the "president" sticking to his guns despite the color numbers matching the previous paint colors on file with the HOA, rather than admitting his error and acknowledge that the 10-year old paint had faded and lightened, ...he voted disapproval).

I do not know any of these men, and have never interacted with any of them previously other than to wave hello to them when passing through the neighborhood.

I have finally been able to reschedule my painting contractor to restart the work on my half-painted house on Monday -- after a nearly 60-day delay due to the action of the HOA president -- and, of course, the weather forecast for Monday is "RAIN"!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to tell you (with tongue only slightly in cheek) that Mahmoud's solution to his HOA problem makes perfect sense to me at this moment!

Do you suppose that a fence and driveway were worth dying over? I have lived here since 1948, now they tell me that I live in a community!

HOA's are a good thing... they enforce the restrictive covenants in a subdivision and other governmental codes. That is to PROTECT the investment you made in your home and to try to keep the values up in a neighborhood. Even if you have restrictive covenants, without an HOA to enforce them, most people turn a blind eye because as an individual, you would have to hire an attorney at your own expense to enforce the restrictive covenants in a subdivision. I happen to live in a neighborhood where we have restrictive covenants and do not have an HOA to enforce them. Many violations have taken place from construction of chain link fences in the back to parking junk cars on the grass. When buyers ride through these neighborhoods and see this decline, the subdivision goes into decline because it is no longer desirable. With homes sitting on the market for long periods of time, prices keep being cut and cut in order to get homes sold. Eventually every house in the neighborhood loses substantial value. So you can bitch about HOA's and restrictive covenants but they are there to PROTECT your investment. You should be happy to have them. I'm a real estate agent and I see what happens in subdivisions where there are no HOA's... they eventually become dilapidated eyesores and nobody wants to buy anything in these subdivisions. No demand means lower pricing.

Besides, if you don't want to live where there are HOA's, they go find one of those dilapidated subdivisions that don't have HOAs.

And this murderer is a jack-ass who wanted to destroy the investments of everyone in the neighborhood. I hope he gets the death penalty and I hope the HOA forecloses on his house which in most states, they can do.

You only defend HOA's because it keeps the prices up which means more money in your pocket when one your representing sells.

muslims in KY. I've heard it all. Why were they having a meeting in a church anyway? If it was that serrious they shouldve had it in a town hall or something like that if they were bringing up some kind of charges against that piece of sh!t muslim. Deport that bastard and behead his first born.

'Seewhat I mean188', ....I believe it is spelled Shi'ite.

PS. Do you by any chance consider yourself a "Christian"? If your answer is yes, ... guess again.

Why anyone would believe that their property values are more protected by granting the right to make decisions about their property to a HOA is beyond me.

In Montgomery County Maryland (pop. 900,000), there are like 2 neighborhoods in the WHOLE county that don't have HOAs.

You wanna live in this county, you basically don't have a choice. You are gonna pay a monthly HOA fee whether you want to or not.

How many HOA's have been disbanded by the actual homeowners? I've never heard of a single case (although I'm sure it's happened). It's allegedly very hard to do.

HOAs SUCK!!!!!

I agree HOA are sometimes staffed with control freaks.My mother in laws lake house had a HOA president and he was a tyrant.When they finally voted him out he packed his things and moved. He couldn't take it that he no longer had a say so.

So I guesss the HOA is only as good as its weakest or worst link.

I specifically chose a neighborhood with an HOA. When buying a home with an HOA you are provided guidelines that all homeowners must abide by example in our neighborhood...no sheds can be built that can be seen from the front of the house, no farm animals, no broken down project vehicles in the front yard. We live in a more rural area which means if you want to be insured that the standards of the neighborhood you purchased a home in will stay as expected, an HOA is absolutely necessary as the restrictions keep people from doing things like moving a trailer in behind their homes or building a shed out of plywood and tin that they found on the side of the road or something else that I'm personally not interested in living next to. We live in a rural area. When we purchased our first property it was in an unrestricted neighborhood and after we built our home the neighbors moved a mobile home in on their lot and rented it out. When one of the 10 people living in the mobile home hit the pole with their electrical box on it with a car instead of repairing it they ran an extension cord to the mobile home from the house. Oh and my other neighbor decided out of the blue to get a pony and put it in their yard (less than a 1/4 of an acre lot). They also didn't take care of the pony which was infested with fleas, flies and ticks. The yard was full of pony poo. It was not what I was expecting when purchasing my home.

Heaven forbid Reese people can actually use their property for what they see fit. I'm sure your neighbors probably didn't care for your house, property and holier than thou attitude anymore than you cared for them.

I totally agreed with KJ...if the neighbor have an I don't care attitutude, HOA or not HOA doesn't mean much to them

...........he didn't give a s%^t about the HOA rules he new existed when he bought the house!

I agree. The guy is probably a sociopath who thinks he can do whatever he pleases including breaking rules and laws.

YAWN!!!

And any idiot can *illegally* get a gun. What's your point?

then make them ALL illegal and we'll start rounding you a$$holes up Jamie

I'll be waiting for you then Tony! Along with another 10 million more pissed off gun owners you think you need to protect yourself from!

Tony, there is a constiturional right to have guns. Anyone who doesn't like it should get the eff out of this country. As I've said before, the real problem is that we live in a violent society and we need to focus on correcting that by having better education etc. HOAs no doubt bring out the worst in people. You would have a more peaceful society if you outlawed them.

Once again, let's blame gun ownership instead of the guy shooting the gun. Had he not had a gun, he probably would have used a knife, or a bat, or a bomb. And, guess what, people who are hellbent on killing someone will get a gun, even illegally. Grow up.

"then make them ALL illegal and we'll start rounding you a$$holes up Jamie"

And while your at it Tony, make everything that can be picked up and used to kill someone else illegal. Also, did Jamie threaten you in any way, that she needed to be called an a$$hole? Or, is the lack of social skills just a normal part of your life?

Tony, you're boring. Stupid hippies.

Had he not had a gun, he probably would have used a knife, or a bat, or a bomb.

But, a knife or a bat would, on average, be less lethal. We should also question the need to carry a gun everywhere, such as to a homeowner's association meeting held in a church.

Who said the gun was bought legally? Also, if a person can abide by simple rules then I guess he feels like he can break any rule such as murder. He had more of an agenda then just to come to a neighborhood meeting with a gun.

Yeah buddy! It's the life pal!

Are you kidding? The democratic aspect lies in all the owners of homes being members and having a say in the HOA.

Now if that doesn't happen, if the HOA gets it's authority from somewhere besides the home owners, then you've got a point...

sparrow1, Democracy IS the problem. That's why our founding fathers made this country a constitutional republic. Freedom and liberty are good. Democracy, not so much. Unbridled democracy always fails. Look at the middle east. When they get democracy they establish islamic totalitarianism. The majority wants that. They don't care about freedom, they care about islam. When Egypt was getting rid of Mubarak and the world was celebrating, I was just thinking what morons we have in the world. Now Egypt has an islamic government and less freedom than they had before. Much less if you are christian, jewish, atheist or anything other than islamic. People who like HOAs are usually people who want to infringe on anothers freedom. Granted that when you live in a heavily populated area you have to have some restrictions, but cities and counties usually have zoning laws and ordinances to prevent people from doing things that could really be a problem. Some of them even go too far. HOAs are just never a good thing.

"Are you kidding? The democratic aspect lies in all the owners of homes being members and having a say in the HOA."

Having a say in the organization is one thing. Telling someone who owns their own property what they can and can't do on it is another. When your name is on their mortgage or deed, and your helping to make their payments, then you have the right to tell them what they can or can't do with the property. If not, it wouldn't be any business of yours. It's nothing more than people with an ego trying to run someone elses life.

When you agree to let others make decisions about your property by signing a legal document stating as much, it's nobody's fault but your own.

Again, HOA's are there to PROTECT your investment and prevent it from losing value by class-less folks who would otherwise trash the place. If YOU lived next door to the person who parks his cars on the front lawn, never mows his grass, paints his house purple AND you are trying to sell your home, you might be a little pissed. It seems this murderer wanted to put a slab of concrete in the middle of the front yard amongst other things. That's okay.... he will NEVER get to see that concrete slab nor the outside of a jail cell ever again! Hope it was that important to this piece of @!$%#.

It's his freakin' house, he can do what he wants, he owns his property not some trumped up bunch of bushwacking conservatives

I am part of a HOA that so far all I have gotten written up for was a few weeds but have friends that do not have a HOA that their neighbor's have cars sitting up on blocks.

I hope this a**hole doesn't like jail, and that he doesn't like being there for the next 30 years!

Well said Indepundit. Let's all hope that the other inmates like having him in jail... alot and often.

NO NO NO! I don't care what bothers you, you keep your filthy little nose out of other people's business. Unless you are PAYING their mortgage, you've got no business making demands of homeowners. PERIOD. Screw you AND your misplaced sense of entitlement. And that goes for the HOA too.

Hey Elektro Freak.... I hate HOAs, but your absolute statement about

"Unless you are PAYING their mortgage, you've got no business making demands of homeowners. PERIOD."

is off base.

If my neighbor wants to put 3 cars up on blocks in his front yard and then fill those cars with empty beer cans... that would GREATLY affect my property value. Once you adversely affect my property value, it's no longer "other people's business". Now it's my business too.

HOAs suck and I hate mine. But please understand that when your actions lower my property value, that's MY BUSINESS and you damn right I'm going to start making demands. I bet you would too.

I'm under NO obligation to care about your property value. Just like my affairs are none of your business, your affairs are none of mine and unlike you I'm fine with that. That little line that separates two properties? That line might mean nothing to you, but it means the world to me. You no pay? You no say. Real simple. Now, somehow HOAs have found a way around that bit of common sense, but that doesn't mean it's not wrong at the core. Lots of things that are legal are still wrong.

In compromise, IF a homeowner can prove beyond ALL DOUBT that their property value is being hurt by the condition of the neighbor's property, then that COULD (and IMO should) be a case settled by a judge in a courthouse NOT some group of people with a misplaced sense of entitlement.. You want to have say over my property? IT WILL COST YOU MORE THAN YOU WANT TO PAY I guarantee you that.

Just like my affairs are none of your business, your affairs are none of mine and unlike you I'm fine with that.

When my affairs start costing you money (i.e. home value), then I really doubt you are "fine with that".

You may need proof beyond ALL DOUBT that 3 cars up on blocks in the front yard hurts property value. Reasonable people already know that it does. And it doesn't have to be a lawsuit that goes to court. Usually this kind of thing breaks city or county laws, so all you have to do is call the police or the appropriate local gov't agency. That's why I don't see the need for HOAs. The laws are already on the books.

"That's why I don't see the need for HOAs. The laws are already on the books."

So we agree then. Good to hear.

Hey ElektroFreak... you can scream all you want. You can scream when the HOA forecloses on your home for not paying your HOA dues or for refusing to correct violations of the covenants. BOO HOO! Don't like to live with them, go find a piece of property in the country... build you a $500,000 house... and wait for the double wides to move in next door to you with the 6 dogs and cars on cinderblocks. See how happy you are then and also see how difficult it will be to sell your house for what you paid for it! Some people want to argue just for the sake of arguing and many people NEED to be told to keep their @!$%# cleaned up!

First off, the HOA rules are not part of the purchase package. They are a separate set of documents outlining the do's and don'ts of living in that community. It's all included in the purchase package, but nowhere buried in the fine print or on a back page somewhere. This freak knew exactly what he could and could not do or at least should have. There was no buyer beware here. He just thinks he's above the rules!

Are you suggesting he was raised in a country where you can solve contractual disputes by killing people who complain?

In a way I agree with you. I think we should legalize dueling again. That way it'd be fair since both parties would have a gun. If dueling were legal again I believe we would be much more civil and respectful to each another.

Well,when you explain it like that, the shooting seems eminently reasonable. In fact, it would be unreasonable to NOT commit murder in this situation, now that I think like that. Thanks for the input, sir. You are a saint.

stoopids...

If sarcasm is an art, you are Picasso, Monet, and Michelangelo all rolled into 1. Speaking of rolled, I ROTFLMAO when I read your post.

I think it's more like buying a car, and then not reading all the pages of the owner's instruction manual. The HOA isn't something people think about too much when they buy, especially if it's the first time they dealt with one.

It's not like the instructions were in the house after purchasing. They're right there in black and white! And I'd bet my next paycheck when the place was on the market, it said it was in a HOA!

Mr Burton..

Theres an easy solution. Don't move into an area with an HOA? You know, not every city/subdivision have them.

You are mistaken. Come do some house hunting in Montgomery County MD. Virtually every city/subdivision in Montgomery County has a HOA. Only the unsafest neighborhood (Veirs Mill village) and the 10-acre mansions in the upcounty area are without HOAs.

And just an FYI. You don't buy a home and then discover, wow theres an HOA that has rules. Its fully disclosed when you purchase.

Really? No kidding? You are excellent at interpreting the obvious. Like somehow I would have slept through closing. Where's that little smiley thingy that shakes it's head back and forth?

I moved into my home because it was the only neighborhood I could afford that wasn't Veirs Mill village. Come to my county and house hunt before you spout off like you've shopped for homes in every county in America.

Nah, its like buying a car knowing there is a car owner's association, and then finding out later that (OH NO) there is a Car Owner's Association. And the car in fact is red. And you knew it was red. And you are ok with red, but preferred silver. And the Car Owner's Association says you can't re paint it silver.