Yes, and if you didn't drive an expensive car, you wouldn't be carjacked. And if you didn't live in an expensive house with no visible security, you wouldn't be burglarized. And if you didn't work at a Dollar General, you wouldn't be robbed. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Stop blaming the victims and start blaming the criminals (even if, in fact, especially if they have a badge!).

WTF Bill? So NO woman should ever go to a bar again? Screw that. You're saying that if she hadn't been there he wouldn'tve done it and so it's her fault? Hell no! He's the scumbag and you're obviously one also! Man, I've never read a more ignorant post than yours! You're definitely on the "ignore list" for me!

Not a question of truth. It's a question of blame. Do you denver bill blame the victum?

If the judge were in that bar maybee it would have happened to her.

I wonder if this judge has a daughter and what she would say to her if she was attacked and/or raped. I bet it wouldn't be, "If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you.” Or maybe it would be. This woman sounds like she has no compassion at all. Maybe the judge thought it was ok because it was a cop who did it. It was his right.

Either way this judge needs to step down.

Seriously? Going to a public place is now considered risky behavior?? No, there is zero blame on the victim in this situation. She was in a place she was entitled to be and was assaulted. End of conversation.

That's a pretty stupid concept. Going to a bar is not risky behavior. There is no place in this world that is available to the general public that simply by going to it you invite something bad to happen to yourself. No one is responsible for the actions of another person unless they intentionally manipulate those actions. Going to a bar is not an invitation to be accosted for a woman nor a man anymore then walking into a park is an invitation to be mugged or sleeping in your bed is an invitation to be robbed.

And if neither the victim nor the criminal had been born, none of it would have happened. I guess some folks here (no names mentioned, Denver Bill and David) are too dense to understand the implication of the comments. "Risky behavior"? Not much more to say about that one except, wow, just wow.

Nice to see Jimmy Spence here working his normal comedy tour material. Us real Americans appreciate your efforts JimBo.

So, GB... a child goes to the park and is kidnapped, raped and killed. Since it's a "true statement" to say... if he wasn't at the park it wouldn'tve happened....then it's ok to say it right? Lord you and Bill are beyond ignorant and obviously nothing I will say will point out the ignorance of your thought processes so I'm not even going to waste my time. I'll just put you on my "getting longer by the minute" ignore list.

David, when was going out to a bar classified as a risky behavior? Smoking is risky, drinking is risky, driving is risky, skydiving is risky, crocodile hunting is risky. Going to a public place to relax and have fun should not be deemed a risky behavior. What next? Should all women be dressed in a burqa, accompanied by a male relative, and only out of the house in daylight hours? If it is Afghanistan's culture that you prefer then you, Bill, and this ignorant judge should move there!

In this instance the Judge was thoroughly worng. She used her personal preference while favoring the defendents actions in her remarks.

Yeah if this young woman didn't go to the bar an officer of the law may not have intruded upon her body and groped her. BUT HE DID AND VIOLATED AN INNOCENT VICTIM.

Such could also have happened at the grocery, walmart, target or in a parking lot when the same perverted pompious cop was present.

Yet it seems as if the Judge was reflecting on a possible personal issue when she said what she said in court! Maybe she had a alcoholic child or husband/partner---who know. Her words were inappropriate, unprofessional and not worthy of YOUR HONOR MA'AM.

Please step down from your bench for your personal issues or theories have no place in a Court of LAW!

OMLord. I'm reading some of these posts and I'm wondering if you people are living in this era or in fantasy land. You HONESTLY believe that it's "dangerous and wrong" for a girl to go to a bar? And niece where in the hell in the article did it say she was "rubbing up against other women"? Man it truly AMAZES me the crap you ignorant people come up with to defend someone's stupidity just because they come from the same political party as you do. The victim was standing at the bar with friends when this guy came up and did this @!$%# to her. It was in NO way her fault! I've been to a few bars in my 47 years of existence and I've NEVER had that happen to me....and if I did there's NO way in hell I would think it was MY fault cause I was there. Lord in heaven I pray none of you EVER breed and NEVER have daughters... cause heaven only knows how they would grow up feeling about themselves with you as their parents! And for the record "going to a bar" doesn't mean you're getting drunk. I've gone to bars with friends after work and had ONE drink.... Man you guys honestly scare the crap out of me! I can't believe that people think (or don't think as the case may be) as you all do!

Boy, lot of people reading between the lines and inserting their own dialog here. It doesn't matter what you actually say, people will read into it whatever they like and then put you down for their own thought processes.

WTF...all you f*cktards making these "its her fault" statements are sickening. Ya'll probably subscribe to that whole "If your getting raped, you should sit back and enjoy it" theory huh.

Oh, so we should all wear burkas and stay out of any place that men who act like idiots might be. Get real we have as much right to go to a bar and be unmolested as you good ole boys. Don't bring your Taliban thoughts here boys.

So, now going to a bar for a drink is somehow "risky behavior?" This judge needs to be impeached ASAP- -the good folks in Flagstaff need to start the recall immediately.

@ stoopid--you sound like you belive that if she had been raped, it's her fault for wearing a skirt. Good name for you Stupid.

David--are you wearing a shirt that says "I'm with Stoopid"?

while I think the judge shouldn't have said those things, you do have to watch your back when you go to a bar being a woman.

Denver Bill 2 - None of those statements are not true. If Mr. Lincoln did not go to the theater that night knowing it was dangerous to go out in public he would not have been shot. A new question for you. Denver Bill 2 is a moron. True or false?

If Hatch hadn't behaved like such a filthy @!$%#, this story wouldn't have made the news.

according to Bill, then since a child lives with their parents, I guess it is the child's fault when they are abuse or molested by a parent. I worked with victims of crime and women are almost always blamed for their victimizations. When I did trainings, I would always say that society has to stop blaming women. And how do we know society still does (look at some of these posts), because the first thing we think when we see a woman with a black eye is, "I wonder what she did to piss him off" or when we hear of a woman being raped, we ask ourselves what she was wearing. Do we ever ask a victim of a burglery, "What were you thinking owning a TV, don't you know TVs get stolen?" And we never tell the victim of a carjacking, "What do you expect? Driving a car, don't you know cars get jacked?" And we never ask the victim of a bank robbery, "What the heck were you thinking, cashing your paycheck at the bank? If you didn't cash your check, you wouldn't have been at the bank when it was robbed." If this sexual assualt victim had been a man in the above story, would we still be blaming the man? I mean, isn't it risky for him to go to a bar also?

Denver Bill 2 if I interpreted your words correctly---if a woman were to walk into a bar---then you believe that they are asking for it. Gosh dude do have any heart.

BTW: Please recall that just recently a woman screwed a guys nuts off with her hands---he may have thought like you do. Guess he thinks differently now huh!

I think Bill is saying that when we choose to engage in risky behavior, like going to bars, we shouldn't be surprised when bad things happen. He's not condoning the groping. The fact that we choose to engage in risky behavior does entitle us to some of the blame, even if it's a miniscule portion. It doesn't mean the punishment should be any less for the groper. It's about thinking about our own actions and whether we want to put ourselves in harms way. If we choose to we do so knowing the possible negative outcomes.

So going to a bar is "risky behavior"? Maybe if it's known to be a completely sleazy, trashy dive bar. But "bar" is not synonymous with "dive." There are plenty of bars that aren't sleazy, that are perfectly fine for anyone to go to. I don't know what this particular bar is like, and I doubt you do either. So why do you assume that a woman going to a bar is putting herself in harm's way?

Everything you do entails an element of risk - you drive a car, you risk an accident, you own anything at all, you risk getting ripped off. But these risks are not the norm - you don't expect to get into an accident each and every time you get behind the wheel. And if some drunk driver smashes into you, it's not your fault, even by a miniscule amount, just because you were in your own car. So simply going to a normal bar shouldn't be putting yourself in harm's way just because you're female. Sheesh!

Oh, come on. There' s a difference between cautioning people and telling them they need to take precautions and blaming them for what happens to them. Yes, if you take the words out of context, it sounds like the judge is blaming the victim, but if you read the entire statement, it's one woman telling another that she needs to be more cautious. Any mother who doesn't tell her daughter (and son) the same thing is shirking her duty.

So the judge can be accused of being overly maternalistic. Yes, she talked down to the victim. But blaming the victim, no.

If I never drive, I won't get in a car accident. If I never walk across the street, I'll never get run over. If I never eat, I won't get food poisoning. If I never leave the house for any reason, I won't get mugged. If i never have any logical thought processes, I'll live in stupid, ignorant bliss.

So if I get this Judge right, if this woman wasn't born none of this would have happened and she would not have had to make a judgement, this was all a waste of her time, I ran into a judge like this in Arizona, she had more important cases to here.

Well for goodness sake, the judge was appointed by Jan Brewer. If she's an FOB (Friend of Brewer) I'm not sure that 'rational concern for her fellow citizens' would be a phrase in her lexicon. The poor victim should think herself lucky that the judge didn't sentence her to wear 'a scarlet letter'.

Bill, the facts are pretty clear. Apparently some of the folks you hang with need to be stimulated in order to think. David is obviously one of those freinds. However, it is not the victims fault and that is the point you seem to conveniently want to set aside for the sake of stimulating conversation with your peers. Quaint.

And Jesus wouldn't have been crucified if he stayed out of Jersalem.

I say Fire, outright, this Hatch female, and it Does Not matter 1 iota that she's a repuglitant, I've the same opinion/behaviours from dimocarps And Independents as well, FYI I am an Independent, All *elected officals* become azz`hats 30 minutes After they azzume office, happens Everyday day in an day out!! Too Many sukin offa the Taxpayers dime as it Is!!!

I know women who would have grabbed the first beer bottle they could and bashed it over the groper's head, or smashed it in his face and broken his nose. I suppose the judge could have then ruled "if he hadn't groped then the assault wouldn't have happened." Then there are the ladies who know martial arts who would have made this guy's voice rise by 2 octaves.....

when I was a little boy I was a republican ...when I grew up I saw that the democrats were not as crazy...coke and pepsi...taste a little different but their the same.,might as well be with the ones who understand you economically ...

And if the judge had not been in court that day, she would not have said something so stupid!

This story will be forgotten by about midnight. This is a local issue, but of course the Libbies will sensationalize it and try to make it a national concern. The judge fu**ed up. She'll apologize and everyone will go about their merry way.

You mean because it was a republican judge and this judge was given the seat by a republican radical and as we all know as republican radicals, a woman's place is in the home and not out flaunting their butts off in a bar and getting republicans in trouble that believe a woman must want it other wise they wouldn't be there but would be home baking you pie right?

It's these types of idiots that women should be voting against this Nov election!!!

And that my friends sums up Republicans and the Republican Party for you - men and women! It must be your fault if you get rape. Simply sad!

lets take a moment to read here:

"The former Arizona Department of Public Safety officer had been facing a maximum sentence of up to 2 ½ years in prison, but received two years of probation, community service and treatment. He was fired after his conviction."

a "PUBLIC SAFTEY OFFICER" in a bar sticking his hands up a womens skirt ?? and he was found guilty ??

your joking, right ???

and then to say to the women,"if you were not there it would not have happened "??

your effen joking, right ??

and to even have a falsh of agreement, is pathetic....

and to top it off, give the "PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICER" ony 2 years probation ??

thats ucked up, really....

Friggin idiots, minds of children. I have had my fair share of dealings with these petty judges. They get on the bench and think they are God's. Does not matter who is right or wrong it is their opponion that rules. Just like the military, "Its not the right or wrong way its the military way" and no dont read in to it your opponion, im not bashing the military, just the machine that runs it and everything else in this country. Going down hill fast people!

What a horrible statement. It is time to get this person OFF the bench during next election! This woman had to deal with the perp = cop & then listen to the rude and crass statement from the judge?

The world has gone mad!

Let's keep making it the woman's fault when a man sexually assaults her. Hey! If you didn't have that darn vagina he wouldn't have been able to stick his finger in it. Why don't you sew that thing up? And those perky breasts? You've heard that you can have them surgically removed right? Then you could go anywhere you wanted, like if you lived in a free country.

tz...you're engaging in a false equivalency when you try to compare someone going into the park vs. going into a bar...unless, the child is going into the park, by themselves, at midnight. Then I would hope to God that someone would be kind enough to tell them that might be risky behaviour. Now, neither of us were there, so we don't know the tone or demeanor of the judge's comment...it may have been rude and brusque, or it may have been thoughtful and motherly. Either way, I can see both sides of the argument. What I can't see is flying into a blind, profane rage over someone disagreeing with my point of view. By the way, I have three daughters who are happilly married, with children and are financially self-sufficient. Your worries are unfounded.

Makes me wonder, if the judge was friends with the cop?

Why are we surprised? Further proof live and in living color that the war om momen is alive and kicking and the republicans are beating the horse as we speak. Think its bad for you now just wait if those two idiots you have on the top of your ticket somehow get appointed like Bush did.

Ya'll probably subscribe to that whole "If your getting raped, you should sit back and enjoy it" theory huh.

Good point AS. Are they supposed to "sit back and enjoy it", or are they supposed to be shutting their minds down so that they don't get pregnant? So many things to concentrate on while being violated. The sad part is that there are people out there who actually believe both of those fallacies.

It's a shame that you can't fix stupid any easier than you can fix the sorry ass "blame the victim" mentality of this judge and those who defend her.

Not very sensitive of the Judge to say, but if you really think about it, the point was that bars, late nights, drunks, and loose inhibitions are not a safe setting for the average person (male or female). Bad things can happen. Why all the outrage.......Sometimes the truth hurts.

AHH, Ha! The Judgeie poo makes the same argument, based on the same logic, as is often spouted by the NRA. IF the dead person had not been where HE/She was when the killer fired the weapon no one would have been killed. This is a new one though. That judge ought to be barred, not only from being a judge, but also from the practice of law. What a gwaddamn serious joke of a judge!

Bill?? As in Bill Clinton ??

I went to a bar once and ended up in the middle of a fight I had nothing to do with. Guess what? If I hadn't been there I wouldn't have been in that situation. I have been in fights in bars, just because I was there or with the wrong person. I used to hang out at "the point" where kids would gather while cruising on a Friday night.. and one night I found myself assaulted by 5 Mexicans, a gun put in my face, and severely beaten, JUST FOR BEING THERE.. The FACT here is that when you go out to certain places at certain times, you have to expect that certain bad things CAN HAPPEN. It doesn't make it RIGHT, but the advice the judge gave was sound.

A good friend of mine was a bartender and server for a few years in a small town bar - despite being a black belt in taikwando, she was small and often found herself in a bad situation with a drunk man twice her size or bigger. She got hit a few times, knocked down, grabbed, groped, pinched, and a few times ended up almost raped in the parking lot after hours. She was usually careful though and was expecting things like this to happen. She was able to get out of situations with only some bruises and sprains at the worst. Doesn't make it right, BUT IT DOES HAPPEN and she didn't go crying to anyone that pointed it out.. She says that it went with the job..

If you go somewhere where people are drunk, you might get grabbed or pinched or hit on by an unsavory person, or worse. If you dress like a whore people will stare at your body parts and look at you like a piece of meat and not a person. If you act like a gangster punk then people will treat you as a criminal and try to avoid you or call you out. If you walk downtown at midnight you risk getting mugged. If you drive recklessly and don't wear a seatbelt you might end up dead or injured. It is COMMON SENSE, and just because we have laws to punish those who do things they shouldn't doesn't mean those laws PREVENT the crimes.

It is like thinking the police will always be there to protect you. WRONG. If you avoid situations where something unpleasant can happen, chances are nothing unpleasant will happen. If you realize that bad stuff can happen and be prepared, you have a better chance of surviving it. Women SHOULD carry a small can of pepper spray, or at least a weighted sap on their keychain. If you feel confident and get training, carry a gun, that is a big part of the reason we have ancestors who died for our right to own and carry firearms - self defense. If you don't feel comfortable carrying something that can be used to defend yourself, that is your CHOICE, but if it happens, don't go off blaming everyone around you. Only an idiot would expect to always be safe, even in an environment that is unpredictable.

I emphasize that it doesn't justify the crimes, but common sense can allow you to avoid being the victim. No reason this judge should have to apologize, she is dead on right.

Mac.. wtf does the NRA have to d with this ?

Unless you meant to say , Had the victim been armed there would be one less creep on the streets,,, err in a BAR...

Pay attention , your "genius" is misguided.

I can honestly NOT believe people think a woman entering a bar equates to her deserving to be assaulted or her expecting to be assaulted. Yes, women should be on guard - but most of us are assaulted by men we know and trust. And whether she should be on guard or not has nothing to do with whether or not he broke the law. If parent's enroll their kids in catholic scholl and their son is raped, is it the parent's fault for not knowing better? Or the child's fault?

The only person to blame is the person who did it. Why should the woman avoid a bar? Why can't the cop avoid sexually assaulting someone? Why can't he avoid drinking to the point he'd do that?

On another note, whether a bar is 'trashy' or not doesn't matter. Do "trashy" women deserve sexual assault? Do all "trashy" men sexually assault women? Do all drunk men?

I think we are all doing a great disservice not only to the victim but to the majority of men who can drink and still be men, not a$$holes. Most men don't assault women and then blame the beer. Really, people a vast majority of men are far too good for this generalization that a woman in a bar = a man assaulting her.

What would you expect with the Commie Brewer's name on it. Brewer is a pig plain and simple if it looks like a pig and it smalls like a pig it's Jan Brewer one of the nastiest looking women in the country

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. For the uneducated ones on this vine, go figure it out.

FACT: on line petitions are non-viable and non binding. this is a national law.

actual first person signatures are required, by law, and these people need to do this right. trial by media thru the web is a which hunt and worth nothing but agravation to all.

that said, if you don't want to be groped, don't dress and act like a slut at a bar. its like hanging out at a dope house and expecting to give clean U.A.s

Well said, Dave. And despite all the efforts to misrepresent what he actually said, Denver Bill is spot on. Just because you have the right to be somewhere and be doing something does not mean that it is prudent to do so.

The problem here is that this situation feeds into the current political correctness meme that women are no different than men and have the same rights. And they do have the same rights but there are many people out there that respect no one's rights. It is also true that there are places and situations I went when younger that I would be some damned fool to go now. My rights are no different than many years ago but my tolerance for risk is certainly less.

It is clear that this woman has learned nothing from her experience and the judge was throwing pearls to swine. She will be fortunate if a groping is the worst she endures while barhopping.

denver bill 2 & GBinSD,

Clearly you are 2 people that like to play devil's advocate by removing your ability to differentiate the accuracy of a statement from its purpose.

Hatch was saying that the victim should be taking a lesson from this, and that is what everyone is pissed over. A victim should never have to learn a lesson from doing nothing wrong. Going to a bar is not illegal, nor is it immoral. Therefore should was doing nothing wrong and should not have to expect a lecture when it's not her trial.

It is idiotic to try and argue cause & effect when essentially none of us can control the behavior of others.

For example, it is also a true statement that getting hit by a truck could have been avoided if I never drove on the freeway today. It may be an accurate statement, but since I am not the one that caused the truck driver to make a mistake it is an unfair and unnecessary statement and therefore not appropriate to say to a victim.

Hell, it's also a true statement that if i never left my home then nothing bad would ever happen to me! But no reasonable human being expects me to live as a hermit. And this judge exposed her lack of ability to be objective and reasonable by making this statement.

The defendant was the only one responsible for the defendant's behavior that night and no one else's. That is what the judge failed to remember. Other male patrons were able to control themselves just fine. And as long as going to bars is legal, then no adult should be reasonably expected not to go to one.

You two want to spend your lives focusing on accuracy that is fine, but you will often find that you will miss the point as a result.

Why is it an issue that this woman went to a bar? You act like SHE did something wrong instead of the criminal cop that did this to her. Newsflash: It is okay to be a woman. It is okay to go to bars. It is okay to be a woman AND go to a bar. Being a woman in a bar at night is NOT an invitation for sexual advances. Those of you who think differently need to go back to the Stone Age where you and your idiotic ideas belong.

frivolous et al

None of you (obviously) understand how certain kinds of people - such as this judge and the former police officer - see events such as this and the world at large. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it definitely shows that you are human, but if you see it from their perspective, you'll understand the judge's statement a little better.

The best way I can describe it is - they see certain people as weak and in their mind, only the weak are made to be victims. I would go so far as to say that they see it as though it is a moral imperative to make victims out of the weak.

So, when she says, "If you wouldn't have been there, this wouldn't have happened," the judge is saying that this woman, being weak, created a situation where a stronger person, seeing it as a moral imperative, made a victim of her.

This is just the way these people (and MANY MANY police officers are this way - nearly a 100% in today's world) see people and the world in it. In their minds, a person who is victimized is at fault and they believe that if that woman had stayed home they wouldn't have any of these problems.

Once you understand how they see the world, it makes it much more frightening because you realize that many people sitting on benches judge the people who come in front of them based on these kinds of criteria.

Thanks Vince. Well put.

The the GOP outlook. She should have been home like a good girl doing her sewing not going into a bar where the sight of her made a good old boy loose control and put his hand up her skirt. Yeah right.

The son of a b#%$& should have gotten jailtime! I bet she would have different thoughts if that had been her daughter. If this judge wasn't there, he probably would have gotten jailtime!!!

Vince, I have no idea what actually precipitated the wrongful attack on the young lady. I have no idea what kind of bar it was and what normally transpires at that particular bar. I do know that there are bars that I, as a man who can take fairly good care of himself, will not enter. It would be just plain dumb of me to go in some places. Yes, i have the right to go there. And, no, if I am attacked it's not OK. But I would still be foolish to put myself in that situation. I have the right to walk down dark streets at 3:00am with hundred dollar bills sticking out of my pockets. I have the right to be unmolested when I do so. And if I am robbed and/or harmed I shouldn't be the one to take the blame. But I still say I'd be pretty stupid to do so. I don't know this woman's situation. I don't know what was going on at this particular bar. But I do know that there are bars where women can expect this treatment. They can go there. They can be mistreated. They can bring charges. And the perp can be found guilty and punished. If that is their aim, then they did what they intended to do. If their aim is to have an enjoyable evening without being molested, they might want to choose a different bar. One preferably without off duty cops.

I think any judge that would make a remark like that under those cercumstances should be dis-barred. In additon the judge reading his dibarment should also say " If you hadn't said that , you would still have a job "

boB-1865652

If the judge were in that bar maybee it would have happened to her.

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Nope, didn't you see her picture, she is pure GOP/TP, the Church Lady.

This is just yet another experience we've seen recently that illustrates the fact that we are living in a time of polarization. It's always existed, but I truly believe it is heightened in stressful times. Both sides can be right.

Back in the olden days, (for those of us who can remember them), there were always places in town that were a little more dangerous than we "should" hang around in. Our parents told us about them. For instance... red light districts, places known to sell drugs, or fence stolen property, etc. As someone mentioned above, any mother would caution her after an experience like this, NOT BLAME HER, THE VICTIM. It certainly is unknown what the EXACT intent of the judge was.

On the other hand, there is a very large range of characters of bars. Everyone knows that. Some you don't want to walk into alone if you are a woman. That's a fact, and every one of you women on here saying don't blame the victim knows it. I'm not saying that this was one of those bars; it very well may not have been. But the judge may be the kind of person who NEVER goes to bars. I'm a pretty conservative person, and I like to go to bars once in a while (almost always with my husband) because I enjoy meeting new people and chatting sometimes. It's just interesting. Step out of your comfort zone. But the bar with the exotic dancers down the street I wouldn't go to alone, simply because I would expect to find guys there who kinda don't respect women to begin with (besides, I'm married, but besides the point, I wouldn't go there anyway).

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there are many perspectives of every situation, and as long as we keep wanting to fight about them, well... we'll just be fighting all the time. Does everybody really enjoy that?

.

denver bill 2

"If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you.”

"Bad things can happen in bars," Hatch told the victim

Which of those statements is untrue?

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.......and if you weren't out driving on the road, that drunk driver wouldn't have hit you, right? What dumbass logic some people have.

If you take the stance the judge takes then I guess if I hadn't shown up for work, then I wouldn't have been groped by my employer and been groped on another job by a co-worker.

Avenger has the best comment here--

I think any judge that would make a remark like that under those circumstances should be dis-barred. In addition the judge reading his disbarment should also say " If you hadn't said that , you would still have a job "

(sorry, I had to edit the spelling)

If being in a bar makes you eligible for abuse, assault, groping, etc., then why do we license bars to operate as businesses? Maybe we should license businesses to be mugging malls, you wlak in, you get mugged, and it's all your own fault. There are some real moronic posting here. Does anyone besides me think that JimSpence was born with his brain located where his colon should be?

To paraphrase a Tx judge once, who told a woman from the bench that if she had not been wearing skimpy clothing she would not have been raped, when asked if he was worried about his remark affecting his being reelected in 2 yrs. Na the voters are to stupid to remember this that far away.

DaveK-1110204

I went to a bar once and ended up in the middle of a fight I had nothing to do with. Guess what? If I hadn't been there I wouldn't have been in that situation

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Some people went to a movie theater not too long ago, and ended getting shot, some died. I guess they shouldn't hae been there. Bottom line, if you go somewhere that is licensed and approved as a place of business, you should have the right to not become a victim. On the other hand, if some places of business, by their nature, are prone to making you a victim, perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to operate, don't you think?

Was the victim underage, is that why she said she shouldn't have been there? I'd like clarification, perhaps I missed it in this article?

It doesn't seem like she was "affixing" blame as much as she was overstepping her bounds to interject and inflict morality in the form of her opinion about morality onto the Victim. That said, there should be something that could be filed with the Court to seek a finding of "Inappropriateness" to go onto her record. 10 strikes and you're out?

People don't go to Court to be moralized and/or berated or lectured by a Judge. It's inappropriate. Was the Perpetrator also lectured about his "immoral" behavior as a side dish to his convicted Criminal behavior? (because that, also, would be inappropriate)

makemyday2day-1929924

As a female and an independent (politically), the comments coming out of the libs on here have about convinced me to move a bit more to the right!

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Gal, you really blew it, right off the bat, yeah, you're as independent as Rush Limbaugh, what a bunch of bullcrap you're throwing out here, I think you must be related to that judge, nice try though. Sure, makemyday, how wet did you get watchcing Eastwood talking to that chair?

Stupid old-fashioned Judge!!

Denver Bill 2 "What I did do was post two quotes from the article and ask a question regarding the truth of those quotes. I did so in an attempt (successful) to stimulate thought and discussion"

Ok genius! From now on, use that sharp logic of yours and live in a plastic bubble so s**t doesn't happen to you. And if it does, do us all a favor and keep it to yourself.

Ive said it before here on newsvine that judges almost always side or feel sorry for the police or anyone in a law enforcement field. All he got was probation. If it was joe schmoe public he would have gone to jail for 2 1/2 yrs and gotten a stern lecture from the "judge" (and I use this word loosely).

Like I said, until we as joe schmoe public have a recourse for SEVERE injustices like this we will continue to see instances where "innocent police officers" are gunned down while directing traffic. What other recourse does this woman have other than to take justice into her own hands?

No way this judge gets fired or resigns, no way this officer learned his lesson because in the judges (and again I use that word loosely) words "its the womans fault for being there". All this judge did was indiscretely tell the man that I don't blame you for feeling up this girl so im just gonna give you an "appropriate" sentence of probation. Kinda gives new meaning to the words appropriate and honorable. And to think people actually have to call this POS judge "your honor" and stand up when she enters the court room(laughable).

This is almost a lesser form of the attitude that prevails in countries with strict Islamic governments. They force their women to hide behind a veil, because supposedly the women then entice the men into bad behavior. There really isn't much difference in the thought processes. The only difference is the source of the attitude, one is a strict form of Islam, the other is a strict form of conservatism.

I'll also add the following: I don't drink and I don't like bars, but there was a time when the only way I could socialize with my friends was to go to bars with them, because that is what they did on the weekends. The bar culture is so ingrained in our youth culture that it is often difficult to avoid it without coming off as antisocial.

Hatch has no business being a judge. Why doesn't she outlaw bars or lockup all the women so the uncontrollable men won't be tempted. I think the cop was the one in the wrong place if he can't control himself. The cop was the one who broke the law, not the girl. The judge needs to see a shrink.

This women is overreacting and the judge is right. My wife use to overact like this the first few times I disciplined her. If she was married and at home with kids this never would have happen instead she was out asking for it. Its time to tack our country back! We need morals and family values in the WHITE House!

Romney/Ryan 2012!!!!!

BS Hatch is a realist and stated a fact, another fact is "Liberals can't handle the truth"! the guy lost his Job and has to put up with two years of probation, same advice goes to him, now what more do you want! quit your whining, its over. another is about attire that can play a role, if you dress like one you will be treated like one. my advice don't go to bars if you can't handle it. if you don't want to hear what a judge has to say then don't go to court ( unless you have to). if I cried every time a woman touched me inappropriately I would resemble a piece of jerky. and I don't dress for attention, I don't look for trouble and I don't give of false signals and I accept accountability for myself, that is the way things should be. instead a women spends six hours making themselves into some kind of sex goddess, puts on a Minnnie and goes to a bar and acts overly friendly and goofy till she hooks a guppy, problem is it was the wrong guppy. now the guppy must pay. spin your webs ladies thats what its all about. thats human nature.

Bars have always been risky for men - liquid courage and pool ques...not a good combo.

Most of the pot smokers I know don't drink, and this never would have happened in a smoke-out. Funny thing is; pot makes you horny and booze causes dead-pecker syndrome...but pot makes you contemplate while booze makes you brain dead.

People could reduce their blood pressure by not assuming they know everything. This is quite possibly another piece of poor reporting intended to stir the pot. Here is something to think about - true stories.

One time, in a country, biker-type bar, a woman shouted that she was out speading holiday cheer. She then slapped her left leg, and then her right, while exclaiming: This "holiday" and this is "cheer". . . . No, she wasn't assaulted, least not that at that moment. Kind of makes you woner if she wanted to be? Right? Then again, if she wasn't there then it wouldn't happen to her. Eeeer, Right?

Another story. A woman was clearly interested in two men at a similar bar. Hugging them, body shots, in their laps . . . . Clearly she was drunk and her friends were concerned. Soon thereafter, these guys simply picked her up and went for the parking lot as she stumbled along. Just before the guy in the passenger side pulled her inside their truck and shut the door, I ran over and grabbed her arm and pulled her out. Her body fell from the truck like a sack of potatoes - passed out. The guys were drunk and pissed off at me. (I had no idea who she was. Just recognized she was in trouble.) Luckly, a couple of her girl-friends were coming towards the truck by then so the guys drove off.

Clearly, it could have been assualt, and it would have been rape, respectively. And, in both instances there were many other women in the bar not inciting strangers. They had no problem. In light of what might of actually happened, maybe the judge meant something like: It wouldn't have happened to you if your weren't there - doing what you were doing.

This is all besides the point, anyway.

Just a thought . . . Maybe we could start complaining about the ineffective reporting style of Internet news-sources like this, instead of continuously falling for the bait.

How about a Bar & Grill? Or a bar at a hotel? How about a bar at a wedding reception? I think the real question is not the truth of the quotes Bill posted, but the intent of the judge's aforementioned statements:

"When you blame others, you give up your power to change,"

Hatch told the victim and the defendant that no one would be happy with the sentence she gave, but that finding an appropriate sentence was her duty.

When you blame others? So she has no right to blame a scumbag for groping her? What power to change was the judge expecting...going to church, participating in after school activities, walking in a park? Oh I guess those would all be places women are also sexually assaulted.

No one would be happy with the sentence she gave? Beyond the fact that she is stating the obvious that it is her job to sentence people in criminal cases, was she really concerned about the happiness of the officer that committed sexual assault? If he wasn't a police officer...say maybe a mexican immigrant or another minority, would she have been concerned about the defendant's happiness?

Pay attention women: NOT EVEN GOP WOMEN CARE ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS TO PROTECT YOUR OWN BODY!!!!

D Buck-2239568

BS Hatch is a realist and stated a fact, another fact is "Liberals can't handle the truth

.....and the GOP/TP can't tell the truth, no wonder this country is going nowhere.

Apology my arse. This judge needs to be pulled from the bench.

Whattheheck,

If the parachute had its own brain and made the decision not to open on its own, then NO it wouldn't be your fault for jumping.

Do you really not see the difference? Try to stay on point.

"If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you.” Bad things can happen in bars," Hatch told the victim.

I assume the victim isn't 12 years old. Judge overstepped her bounds here. How dare her. She needs to be removed from the bench.

Sarah, you can't die in a parachuting accident if your at home with the kids doing wifely duties. Family use to be important before women was allowed to pick their own husbands, vote and work and now they are demanding the same pay as a man.

God warned us about this in Isaiah 3:10-12 that the signs of a decaying society will be that, "Children are your oppressors, and women will rule over you,"

The Bible explains very clearly what women should and shouldn't be doing dozens of times. Unfortunately, young girls are no longer taught their roles in society the feminists have won and now God is banned from school and in place they are taught about sex and brainwashed they can be anything.

Titus 2:2-5 And so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

Take our country back!!! Romney/Ryan 2012!!

Another embarrassing "hand over face" moment for Arizona in the national spotlight brought to us courtesy of Jan "GED" Brewer, our has did pointy fingered governor!

"If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you.”

"Bad things can happen in bars," Hatch told the victim

Which of those statements is untrue?

That does not matter. The fact is that it was HIGHLY inappropriate for the Judge to make that comment. It shows a lack of prudence by the Judge.

Tz wrote: “You're saying that if she hadn't been there he wouldn'tve done it and so it's her fault? ” tz, you’ve made a straw man argument, i.e., you created a false scenario and blamed it on Bill. Bill did not say that if the victim was not there that the perpetrator would have sexually assaulted someone.

The awkward way you express yourself, “wouldn'tve done it “, makes it appear that you’re agreeing with Judge Hatch, that is, there is a connection between location, event and victim involvement, which, when all things are considered in a logical sequence of events, are undeniable. The problem lies in the assignment of fault, which your comments don’t address explicitly, but should.

If you clearly stated that there existed a connection between location, event and complicity on the part of the perpetrator, then it would have been easy for the readers to deduce that there must be a logical sequence of events that indicate clearly where the fault lies, and it wouldn’t be with the victim. However, your assumption that: “if she hadn't been there he wouldn'tve done it”, leads one to believe that he only did it because she was there; because she was of particular interest to him, e.g., he thought that she was exceptionally pretty, or exceptionally sexy. This line of thinking is perhaps what the judge was trying to express when she stepped on her tongue, i.e., "Bad things can happen in bars."

Personally, I think the judge’s intentions were well meaning, and she was just trying to point out that bars are places where people frequently get intoxicated, and that intoxicated people very often do unpredictable and harmful things, so you go there at your own risk.

I don’t think that it is beyond the scope of Superior Court judges to make those kinds of observations. I do think; however, that a person who has four years of college, and two years of law schools, and presumably practiced law at one time, would ay least be able to express themselves with a little more eloquence than Judge Hatch.

Mystery Rhee wrote: “It doesn't seem like she was "affixing" blame as much as she was overstepping her bounds to interject and inflict morality in the form of her opinion about morality onto the Victim.” Apparently, you’ve never been in a courtroom during a criminal case sentencing or during a family court hearing. Judges moralize and offer their opinions about the cases they hear and the parties involved as a matter of course. It happens in every Superior Court, in state in the union.

You should go to a trial at your local county Superior Court someday and follow a case to its conclusion; you will be surprised as to what goes on in a courthouse these days. It is absolutely nothing like you see on TV.

There is nothing that a judge can say in their courtroom that can be deemed inappropriate. They give opinions as part of their job description. If they are eloquent in speech, the public rarely hears about it, if they mess up, it’s front-page news.

Don’t expect Judge Hatch to be reprimanded, censured or wrist slapped. The Chief Judge may release something for public consumption, but that’s about it. The judiciary has their own private fiefdom in this country, and private citizens have no say in it. As an adult, you should know that by now.

What? Bars aren't public places where you can get drunk, be stupid, piss on yourself, or others, puke on yourself or others, get in arguments, get in fights, get thrown out, meet interesting cops, meet interesting judges, meet interesting jails, meet interesting roadside ditches, utility poles... and then go from the piano bar type and head out to the real dives later on for a last game of pool before finding a place to eat? It's too bad that people get sexually assaulted in bars, or hit with bar stools in a fight for that matter, or shot in the parking lot outside, and all that other too bad stuff which will never change.

A very pretty woman I once knew with very pretty red hair, left a bar drunk, the car went off the road, the door opened, her head came out, the car door hit a stump, the door slammed, and it cut her head off at the neck, and her head rolled down in the weeds. Another very close friend with the fire department had to go find that head, and once he found it, didn't know if he was to pick it up by the pretty red hair, or the ears, as he felt that either way he picked that head up he somehow was violating that woman. I suspect for the most part, people aren't all that familiar with the court system, and expect jurists to make comments at the close of the case that no one is to be offended by. I don't think that's likely to happen, either. The reason drinking is to transpire at a "legal age", is so they can face up to the consequences when things go wrong, as adults.

Vince wrote: "Why is it an issue that this woman went to a bar? You act like SHE did something wrong instead of the criminal cop that did this to her. Newsflash: It is okay to be a woman. It is okay to go to bars. It is okay to be a woman AND go to a bar. Being a woman in a bar at night is NOT an invitation for sexual advances. Those of you who think differently need to go back to the Stone Age where you and your idiotic ideas belong."

Vince, very well thought out, and with the exception of the last seven words, nicely presented. But the problem is, you aren't going to change anyone's core belief system.It will take another generation, maybe two, for the stigma of bar-fly, low moral women to finally disappear.

It is left over from the WWII generation. While the men were away fighting, the women were home, working in the factories building P-51 Mustangs, welding together Liberty Ships, and then going out with the girls for a drink after working 10 or 12 hour shifts.

After the war, when the men returned home, some of the women, mostly tough city girls, didn't want to go back to the "old ways." They had a taste of equality and they liked it, and they weren't going to give it up. They continued to work outside the home, and they continued to frequent nightclubs and bars, and they continued to enjoy the same kind of sexual freedom that men had, but these women were way ahead of their time; they had no organization to defend them or explain their cultural revolution. They became branded, and the brand stuck.

The bar-fly brand is receding, but cultural change, much to our dissatisfaction, does not happen overnight. Women have made tremendous cultural advances in American society, but some things still lag behind. But in time, those walls shall also fall.

This is the type of conversation that says we deserve the Congress we have. This has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat or Independent. This was a STUPID comment by a judge. Republicans would overwhelmingly agree that what this guy did was wrong. PERIOD. Why do so many of you look for opportunity to make nasty comments about the opposing party when it has nothing to do with the story? Do Democrats really believe that when one Republican says or does something stupid that the entire Republican Party is stupid. Do Republicans really believe that when one Democrat says or does something stupid that the entire Demorat Party is stupid? It just means that the idividual said or did something stupid. Let's all just chill.

Bill:

Excellent comments. Are they addressed to anyone in particular, or should we all feel blessed?

tz:

One of the rules here in the News vine community is respect each other.

Calling other commenters ignorant, and idiots is not consistent with News vine policy.

If you don't mind your manners, and stop being abusive, then you will leave me no choice but to turn you in to the moderator for his or her immediate consideration.

You have been warned.

SanAndresMan

And that my friends sums up Republicans and the Republican Party for you - men and women! It must be your fault if you get rape. Simply sad!

Wow....and your way of thinking is one of the problems that we have in the United States today.

Republican or Democrat there are idiots in both parties and there are idiots that don't belong to any party. If I were to have only one sided thinking then I would be thinking that all democrats are idiots because of the democratic judge that ruled in favor for a convicted murderer's sex change operation.....because it is his right to be able to live the rest of his life in prison as a woman. In my eyes HE is a convicted murderer he has no rights! So, because of this one judges decision all democrats are idiots? I don't think so.

Open your mind!

Stull,

I completely agree, however, go read Rhaze's ridiculous post. Only one of the parties harbors that kind of backwards religious thinking. And while most in that party don't think that way, the platform allows for it and the sane ones do a piss poor job of calling the crazy ones out.

Rhazes - And so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

Single man, are you now?

It's completely obvious, without a doubt, that men wrote the bible without the slightest assistance from God. You are a ridiculous man.

Arkius, #1.114- Wow! Amazing that this tread got this far without being collapsed! Thank you so much for replying. I stand by that section of my post that you're referencing and in defensive rebuttal point out that I am speaking of "Morality" not "Propriety" which does, I believe, have an actual "legal" definition and use as opposed to where and how "Morality" does not. Even so, in either case, neither would be appropriate to be directed at a "Victim". Not "alleged" Victim, either, but Victim. I don't think "Propriety", on the other hand, and solely directed at the "now convicted" Perpetrator would be overstepping the bounds; but directing "Morality" at either Party would still be overstepping the bounds.

I understand that much else that you're saying is very true, as to happenstance; but that DOES NOT mean that it's right, okay or acceptable. A Judge's Courtroom IS NOT their own and not under the Rule of Law to make indistinguished rulings or arbitrarily lecture from. You can't judge anything if you can't distinguish and draw distinctions.

I'm really glad you replied and that I just happened to come back to read more posts because it caused this little back and forth which has actually helped me to further clarify, even for myself!

Lolly1192

denver bill 2 & GBinSD,

Clearly you are 2 people that like to play devil's advocate by removing your ability to differentiate the accuracy of a statement from its purpose.

Hatch was saying that the victim should be taking a lesson from this, and that is what everyone is pissed over. A victim should never have to learn a lesson from doing nothing wrong. Going to a bar is not illegal, nor is it immoral. Therefore should was doing nothing wrong and should not have to expect a lecture when it's not her trial.

BINGO!!! Well, truly and succinctly put. And done without vituperation or name-calling.

And I agree with all of it.

Rhazes, wow ... and he says this out loud ... and believes it. We feel perhaps that this individual would be more comfortable with the Taliban, with whom his ideas much more closely align. Oh, that is right, they call their god by a different name, but it sures sounds like the same one when we closely examine its 'holy writ'. Names mean nothing ... only actions. They are the same ...

We shall oppose any such fanaticism ever taking power in this secular nation (yes, secular nation, the United States of America .. so designed and founded). We shall oppose them completely and utterly ...

As someone who has suffered at the hands of sexual assault I must say that some of you make my head spin. I must assume from some of the above post that it was my fault for going to a church and being in a 12 year old body that I got molested. Obviously I left the deacon with no choice he had to give me that "extra comfort" after my grandmother died. Those of you blaming the victim are as sick to me as the man who molested me. I pray that none of your sons or daughters ever have to suffer through something like that only for you to tell them that it was their fault.

This judge needs to be removed. It is not a judge's place to offer parental or maternal advice that sounds like passing judgment on a victim. The judge is there to preside over trial, deem what is admissible, and come up with a sentencing...not make some moral or political statement.

There are plenty of places that 'shady' people tend to hang out...that doesn't mean you should 'expect' unlawful touching of your body. By the way, these bars (dives) that this judge are referring are to are the vast minority rather than the majority, so chances are her advice probably was not even appropriate. Obviously, it shows how little this judge even goes to a bar, or has been in the past decade.

This example of blame also does not correlate to an aforementioned skydiving analogy where the parachute fails and you blame the parachute rather than blaming yourself for skydiving....the parachute had a mechanical failure which happens accidentally by a manufacturer without intention. This man intended to put his hand up her skirt without her consent. End of story. I hope Arizona forces her resignation.

Not all bars are created equal. There are some where a woman should have the common sense not to go into.

that's not excusing the behavior of the knuckle dragging criminal, it just is what it is.

Makemyday has a point. If a woman is going to get drunk she deserves to get molested. WTF???? Shut up. It is NEVER the victims fault no matter what their mental or emotional state at the time of an assault. The fact that women are pointing the finger at women for being molested makes me sick. If I make an error in judgement and have 1 too many drinks while at a bar by myself, does that mean I deserve to have my vagina violated? And does that make he rapist less culpable? Go screw yourself Makemyday- it's mindsets like yours and this judge's that allow this kind of thing to keep happening with little or no consequence.

Oh for heaven's sake!!!!! Really? Repblican's don't care about people? How can you be SO IGNORANT?! Such an unfair blanket statement! Due to YOUR stupid comment, does your rationale give me permission to say that all Democrats are stupid people because of what YOU said?! Just because one Republican judge said something inappropriate, all Republican's don't care about people? And Republican's don't believe in freedom or equality? What the heck? Let's just take anything someone says that's not right, pull up their political persuasion and bash them--especially if it's not our Party. Sheesh... such a bright and fair mentality! Hypocrisy is written all over your ignorant comment.

While I think it was totally insensitive, I do see some basis for her comment. If people are going to put themselves in less than ideal situations, things can happen! The judge didn't say it was her fault, but if we wre smarter and more cautious, perhaps some bad things wouldn't happen. When you drink and become impaired, and/or are at bars with people you don't know, you are putting yourself at risk! Enough said! But of course NO ONE has a right to be inappropriate or rape, etc. The offender needs self-control, but women or victims need to be smart--not dress inappropriately, flaunt themselves. It's a no-brainer--men are visual and some lack self control--most (men & women) lack self control when alcohol is involved! Duh. But don't you dare assume I'm saying it was the girl's fault--it wasn't!

Reginald ...read the story again. The judge said the victim was NOT to blame in this case, but all women should be vigilant about becoming victims. Sounds like common sense to me !! Don't let your political bias blind you.

They don't believe in questioning government either, despite all the blathering on to the contrary. They ALWAYS blindly line up behind the government to rail against any and all who question the government and its goons.

It doesn't have anyting to do with being a republican or democrat... This day and age a judge should have more common sense then to say something like that to anybody. To me this comes more from a religious belief than cannon laws....and yet church and state has nothing to do with each other. If you check on things in a community level you usually find it is mostly made up of members of the same church and they want to push their beliefs onto others.

freak

sorry but the GOP's lies, cheats and fabrications have no place in this article. Please get back on topic?

The judge cannot know whether this would have happened to her had she not been in the bar that night. This could have happened to her in a grocery store parking lot that night, in a shopping mall or any place else for that matter.

It happened to me years ago in the Post Office in Muskogee, Ok. in broad daylight. I was shocked and embarrassed and very young, easily intimidated at the time so I did nothing. The judges remarks were judgemental and insensitive and she should have saved all her admonishment for the perpetrator. Her remarks were very unwise in my opinion.

Imagine if you had pressed charges and went before a judge like this.

Rhazes. Well too bad we are living in 2012 and not 1012. If all these deadbeat men would get off their asses and get jobs to support their wives and children then the strong American women of today could sit on their asses cleaning the barefoot and pregnant. But thats not the case. Don't compare your life to regular people. If your wife enjoys being treated like a slave and being forced to have anal sex when she doesn't want to thats your business.

Hey JUDGE, if you were not sitting behind that bench then this discussion would not be taking place and your seat behind said bench would not be in jeopardy. Do you see the irony in this? Those who abuse their GIVEN powers will have them taken AWAY!!

As mentioned in an earlier post, those who abuse their powers can no longer " just get away with it". The internet allows such abuse of power to be noticed. You enforce our laws, that's it. Judge, would you say those very young boys raped and molested by priests should have fought harder? Or they " should have known to not be in Church alone with a Priest" ? People like this judge are the reason people become anti-gov't or become ant-social misfits afraid to trust the system and speak up when a crime has been inflicted upon them.

STEP DOWN!!!

OverPaid - you can see the actual documented quotes in the article. What more do you want???

Does anyone really have to read the whole article to guess this was - wait for it - Arizona?

Scroll up a little in the article (or click the link of the words you quoted, which lead to the article NBC has sourced this story from). Maybe it was added after your comment, but they do provide the actual quote from the judge saying "If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you."

This judge should be banned from the bench. There's no place in the justice system for the attitude that a woman should have known better than to go into a public place and expect not to be assaulted. It's not the victim's actions that need to change, it's the actions of men who think that women are somehow here for their enjoyment at will. That's the problem, not women who go out for a good time without surrounding themselves with guards to protect them from men with no self-control.

If one reads more closely, the above article does state the judge said exactly that. The article above refers to Daily Sun article which gave an account of the hearing in which the judge is directly quoted. "If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you," Hatch said.

If readers want more information on this story they can check the article Daily Sun website. Part of the lecture to the vicitm included the advice that grocery stores can be dangerouss after 10pm, as well. I guess if a woman does not want to be sexually assualted, then she should not leave the house at night - not to pick up a gallon of milk, to go the the fitness club, and definitely not to go to a bar. Sounds a lot like Saudi Arabia. Maybe we should all just get our male relatives to do things for us and we can stay at home safe in our homes. I hope this judge is not re-elected.

Did you even READ the whole articile Overpaid (and you definitely ARE overpaid if you can't even read)... the judge said EXACTLY those words. Use the brain God gave you and read the WHOLE article before commenting next time.

Jesus, let's review shall we?

"

The Daily Sun's account of the court hearing:

Bad things can happen in bars, Hatch told the victim, adding that other people might be more intoxicated than she was.

"If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you," Hatch said.

Hatch told the victim and the defendant that no one would be happy with the sentence she gave, but that finding an appropriate sentence was her duty.

"I hope you look at what you've been through and try to take something positive out of it," Hatch said to the victim in court. "You learned a lesson about friendship and you learned a lesson about vulnerability."

Hatch said that the victim was not to blame in the case, but that all women must be vigilant against becoming victims.

"When you blame others, you give up your power to change," Hatch said that her mother used to say."

If this happened in Saudi Arabia she would not have been in a bar....

YOur right AZDADDY, instead she would be held hostage to a 30 year or more her senior man who keeps her for his own beginning at what age 9-10?

Brilliant comment sir, NOT!

Uh, silly, I am pretty sure azdaddy was being sarcastic to make a point: kind of like if she'd worn a burqa this wouldn't have happened. Absurd to make a point.

I'd really like to know why more people aren't pissed by the obvious sexism against men? The judge basically women should know that a drunk man = an assaulted woman. That pisses me off as much as the blame the victim game.

Sorry, my bad, read it too quick I spose. I read it as the victim saying that exact sentence. Sorry.

Hatch has no place being a judge. What the hell is a cop doing in a bar ? I seriously doubt looking to catch people doing bad things, since he was the perp. I think the cop was the one who shouldn't have been there. Maybe the judge should outlaw bars and booze. Or does Hatch want to make it men only ? Sorry, I can't stop at the bar for a drink with the other judges, I'm a woman. If a man can't control himself, maybe he should be locked up. Or no, we will just keep all the women locked up. This judge needs to see a shrink.

The cop was most likely off-duty. Its not uncommon for cops to spend time in bars and behave inappropriately, especially in ARIZONA. I've seen it myself, one guy approached a friend who was a little drunk and started acting sleazy. When we all stepped in to sort things out, he barked at us saying 'he was a cop'. We left soon after.

Whenever I read a statement being made by a Judge or Jury blaming the victims of the crime - my blood just boils. I thought we had gotten past that point a very long time ago. But by reading this Judge's comment I can still see that victims of rape are still very much suffering the same indignigities as 20 or 30 years ago. This is appalling and the Judge owes the victim so much more than an apology.

This same thing happened to me while I was at a family amusement park. I was at the playground area with my young daughter when it happened. Obviously I was asking for it, right? It can happen anywhere. And it is NEVER the fault of the victim.

The same could be said to the victim of any crime, and the statement is true, but totally irrelevant. Any crime could have been prevented by the victim choosing to be elsewhere at the time it occurred, but why even mention the obvious? Somehow I doubt it would be mentioned except in the case of a man assaulting a woman. The implication is that the woman is partially at fault for tempting the man by her very presence.

Judging from the judge's picture you know perfectly well that if she ever went to a bar NO ONE would grope her.

mister e ... enjoy your daily bible reading family meeting and, in fact, whatever you all like ... it is a free country ... it is a free country, which means that we have no right to tell you this is wrong ... and you have no right to tell us that legal activities in which we wish to participate are wrong ... and that also goes if you are a judge .. it fact, it especially applies there ... people can tell you (or us) to blow off ... for our opinion is just that ... our opinion ... but an individual cannot tell the judge in a courtroom that ... and this is precisely the issue here.

you are so right!!!!!

trust me,a..hole judges are everywhere.ive met 3 so far.

Hey Trapper, I live here and I totally agree with you. I'm a stranger in a strange land...

I am not saying it is the girl's fault, but the judge might have just made a legitimate statement. How many young women

1. go to places where everyone is drinking and then hang out with people they don't know and act in a drunken manner and use poor judgement. No one should be in those situations. On the other hand the guy that did it needs to be in jail. I even have a relative that wears low cut tops, short skirts, flirst with strangers and generally hangs out with people that she have not one clue about. No, she isn't a hooker. A lot of young females think it is fine. Now days they call it having a good time or dating. Unfortunately, there are young girls raped and or dead in the desert. It shouldn't happen, but it does. There are some very weird people out there looking for the vulnerable and or drunk.

Patriot Jane - so what are you saying exactly? On one hand you say it's not the woman's fault but then you go on to imply if not outright state that any woman who dresses in a provocative manner should expect to potentially end up raped or dead in the desert? Let us not forget that anyone who feels they have the right to assault or rape a woman is not doing it out of lust - it is about power. While someone's manner of dress may attract attention by the wrong guy, this guy is probably already on the road to ruin to begin with. These are weak men who dont know how to simply admire a sexy woman in a bar. They hate the power that they perceive these women have over them and forcing themselves on the woman is the only way they know how to manage their emotions. I am not going to stop wearing something sexy because some douche bag has a small pecker and can't manage his emotions. Of course I also make sure I am aware of my surroundings and a little self defense knowledge isnt a bad thing either!

Being from AZ the whole legistrative and judicial system here is full of whacked people. I gave up trying to understand their way of thinking a long time ago. I just ignore them. As long as I don't hurt anyone physically, financially, or in most cases emotionally; I satisfy myself and my friends.

Not a month goes without a headline about a woman claiming she was raped or assaulted, and then, we find out she made up the story.

Hatch, a Republican appointed by Gov. Jan Brewer in June 2010...

Ahhhh....now I see where it came from

That wouldn't work, though. Remember, this is a Jan Brewer crony. If you're sexually assaulted, it's your own fault. If anything else goes wrong, she'll just blame Obama.

Yes letusreason, you need to reason. The judge was trying to counsel the victim? By telling her if she hadn't been there it wouldn't have happened? You're as big an idiot as the judge is. If the bar hadn't been there it wouldn't have happened either, if the groper hadn't been there it wouldn't have happened either. My god man, what a fool.

The woman, any woman, has the right to hang out in a bar without fear of being assaulted and if it does happen the perp should be prosecuted. It was not appropriate in any way shape or form for that judge to cast her opinions onto the victim and further re-victimize her. It was wrong, wrong, WRONG! As soon as I saw that this judge is a Republican and appointed by crazy Jan Brewer, the statement that the judge made to the victim made perfect sense.

I like your comment "AlaskaGirl". Too bad you and 98 percent of the posters on here forgot the part about you reap what you sow.

this is letusreason are you nuts fella she should be stripped of her robe NOW

Yes, of course it's not the Victims fault. It's CLEARLY the gropers fault, plain and simple. I don't think anyone reasonable is denying that.

That being said - the judge may have been trying to be more a 'Mother' than an 'evil Republican'. I know I'll get hate-mail for even suggesting this, but many mother's (who love their daughters) have told their daughters "you shouldn't go to the bar dressed like that!''

That OF COURSE doesn't make it the girls fault (it's the cops fault and he needs to face the consequences) but I'm just saying that the Judge may have been trying to 'Mother' the girl, more than 'blame' the girl.

Again, either way, it's inappropriate for a Judge to make any such comments, but the Judges intentions may have been more misguided and inappropriate, instead of just being evil. :)

No Letsreason she WAS blaming the victim. Because in another article it shows her whole little "rant" to the victim and she specifically states that women shouldn't go to stores after 10:00! So READ the article and see what a douche this lady is...instead of just twisting it the way you WANT to see so you.... as an obvious republican also...can try and find a good reason for her to state something so obviously ignorant. I'ts not about being politically correct... it's about the victim not being blamed! Man people like you and her are the scum of our society.

It's not the judge's place to council the woman regarding where she chooses to hang out. She has the right to hang out in bars and not be sexually assaulted, just like she has the right to hang out anywhere else. Nobody has the right to put their hands on anyone else against that person's will, particularly in a violent or sexual manner. Regardless of where the person may be hanging out. Or what they may be wearing.

No means no, whether you are in a library or in a bar and whether you are covered from head to toe or naked. Even if you have been getting hot and heavy with some random dude. You still retain the right to bodily autonomy and have the right to say "this stops NOW!"

It is not the judge's job to counsel this woman on where she should and shouldn't go. This is supposed to be America-the land of the free, remember? As long as the woman is not breaking any laws she has the absolute right to go wherever she wants and to do so without being assaulted. Would a man who was hit over the head with a bottle at a bar be told that it was his fault for being there? After all, drunks hang out in bars, and drunks get into fights.

@ ExtremeDriver: It would seem that some of the posters (kind of interesting that many seem to be men) on here have forgotten what country we Still live in. The only person in that court room that the judge should have been ranting on and giving her opinion to was the man sitting in the defendant's chair. If HE hadn't been there that night this woman would not have been sexually assaulted. THAT is what the poor excuse for a judge should have been saying!

^{This judge Hatch was appointed by Governor Jan Brewer, whose son is a rapist, so I guess these two women are very much alike , maybe good friends!?}

Brewer and her husband have had three sons, one of whom died of cancer in 2007.^[46] Another son was declared not guilty by reason of insanity for the rape of a Phoenix woman in 1989; he has been a psychiatric patient for 22 years in the Arizona State Hospital.^[47]

tz:

Let me see if I can’t do a better job of reasoning with the information in this article than you’ve done.

You claim that Judge Hatch was “blaming the victim”, but how can that be true when the original MSNBC article (See above), written by Sevil Omer, of NBC News, explains that: “Hatch said that the victim was not to blame in the case, but that all women must be vigilant against becoming victims.” A second article in an Internet document by Eric Betz, writing for the azdailysun.com (September6, 2012), confirms Omer’s version. Please tell the readers how do you reconcile what you’re claiming to be true, with what the article is saying, when it is supported by a second source, and you have no support what so ever?

Next, you wrote: “Because in another article it shows her whole little "rant" to the victim and she specifically states that women shouldn't go to stores after 10:00!” tz, once again, you either have your facts wrong, or you’re making them up out of whole cloth.

Apparently, you will not hesitate to twist and bend the words of the people involved in the story to suit your purposes. The other article you refer to is the Internet document by Eric Betz that I cited above. You took Judge Hatch’s words out of context and then lied about what she said. Here is the Eric Betz statement from the azdailysun.com article: “Hatch said that the victim was not to blame in the case, but that all women must be vigilant against becoming victims. Hatch also said that even going to the grocery store after 10 p.m. can be dangerous for a woman.”

Now as every reader can plainly see Judge Hatch never said that “women shouldn't go to stores after 10:00” PM, as you claim; she said that going to the grocery store after 10PM can be dangerous for a woman, so be vigilant, i.e., be on your guard. Now, is there something anti-women about that idea? Is there anything remotely anti-feminist about that concept?

I think it would be a good idea if you took your own advice and actually read the article before popping off and making a fool of yourself. Furthermore, your language leaves a lot to be desired. We have rules about respecting the other readers on this blog, if you can’t follow those rules, then perhaps you should move on.

bearaton:

Democrat-need I say more.

Judge Hatch didn't say there was anything wrong with a woman being in a bar. She said there might be something wrong with a woman in a bar who wasn't vigilant. Wow, talk about about a know-nothing political shill.

EXTREME, I'm sure women stay away from you in public and private venues, transportation and retail locations. I feel bad for the women who have to work with you.

i guess it was a "legitimate grope".

She had every right to be there as it's not illegal to go to a bar in Arizona as far as I know.

The fault was entirely on him and probation was too light a sentence as he was a cop. He should have gotten the most the law allowed to set an example for the rest of the cops.

Extreme the only "end of story" here is that you are beyond clueless. It is NEVER the victim's fault. I'm guessing that you are a predator and abuser also... you abuse people and say that it's there fault because they were there for you to abuse. Sick and pathetic you are.

Extreme, you are so obviously a troll.

excuse the grammer.

The left thinks all women care about is birth control and abortions. Now that is sexiest.

Chad, did you actually read the article? Or, did you just leave Fox and come straight to comment? The article is about a radical judge. Your comment does not contain a connection to the article. You are basically trolling. Last, women do not want the freedom and rights attacked by Republicans.

Sunset,

Does it always have to be about politics? Have we as humans lost our ability to debate an issue without first labeling someone? If you feel the judge was in error in her statement, then just say so, don't go on about what party she is from or beat up anyone believing what she did was correct, based Solely on their political affiliation.

I think all of the political comments from both sides, are ridiculous and belittling to the victim and the situation. I am sure she wouldn't feel more comfort knowing the judge was democrat or that she was republican. Do you think the judge was right or wrong? Simple question, debate that.

So, on to the lions den. I have told and taught my sister and daughters about cautions they should take at certain places during certain situations. It would be ridiculous to send them out the door with no words of wisdom. Just stand there smiling when they told me they were going out with friends to a club, with no mention of the hazards of drinking or being around people that drink, that would be pretty stupid right? I think that is all the judge was trying to say. Now, is it the judges place to say such things... probably not that is more in line with parenting. But with that said, many judges usually feel it a moral responsibility to give words of advice to victims and the guilty. Maybe the judge has a daughter that she worries about and felt motherly towards this girl... don't know because of the little information coming out of this one article.

I have told and taught my sister and daughters about cautions they should take at certain places during certain situations. It would be ridiculous to send them out the door with no words of wisdom. Just stand there smiling when they told me they were going out with friends to a club, with no mention of the hazards of drinking or being around people that drink, that would be pretty stupid right?

As if they didn't already know that. It is so nice for them that they have a male around to take care of them. Do you lecture your male relatives, too?

Male relatives are usually the ones going out and doing the sexual conquesting and are ot as at much risk of being taken advantage of....

No, we should not expect more from these Republican tea people.

This is just another one of their new top hits.

From Akin to that republican priest that said kids were the ones seducing the priests and now this. How Republicans sleep at night or look at themselves in the mirror is beyond me.

And a democrat judge in MA ordering the state to pay for an inmates sex change! Please there are idiot judges from both sides! Grow up!

Well, Duane, I haven't found anything that says that U.S. Federal Judge Mark Wolf, whom I presume you are talking about, is a Democrat. In fact, he was appointed by president Ronald Reagan, so one could actually assume that he may in fact be a Republican. You know, Duane, not everyone in MA is Democrat if that's where you were going with that assumption.

Duane

And a democrat judge in MA ordering the state to pay for an inmates sex change! Please there are idiot judges from both sides! Grow up!

Why do you continue posting this idiotic spew?

The judge is a Republican, you moron

Eric Of Montreal

No, we should not expect more from these Republican tea people.

They sound creepy, these "tea people"

How Republicans sleep at night or look at themselves in the mirror is beyond me.

I am sure they do the same as you do. Is it really necessary to lump a large group of people into one mold that you have in your mind? What is a "tea person", is it a green man, or a brown or black man? Or maybe a person that is fed up with Big Government, tired of no representation, not having a voice?

Funny thing Eric of Montreal, your from Canada right? Well anyway funny thing, for many years a small voice had a large presence in this country and not too many complained, then along came a group finally fed-up enough to speak... BLAM they get called horrible names, ridiculed, beaten up in the press... maybe the "tea people" aren't as bad as you say huh? Maybe they are like you and me and all the other scared people of this country, and maybe yours to. I am happy when ANY group stands up for their rights as an American. It keeps our government in check as our fore fathers intended. I do not have to agree with why they are there, but I do not resort to calling them names.

Wow, that is quite a stretch to attribute the ignorance of a Judge who was appointed by a Republican to the entire party. That is what is known as stereotyping and bigotry...or does that only apply to your ideological opponents?

Wellllllll.....ok...let's hear again from all the apologists for the judge let us know what party they claim.....any Democrats or Independents? I'd consider even one of the prior apologists proudly claiming to be a Democrat *very* surprising......anyone?

No it doesn't sound at all familiar. Are you really saying that any woman who goes to a bar is putting herself in jeopardy of a sexual assault in the public area of the bar? That's absurd. And lest you forget, the assailant was a POLICE OFFICER.

Tsk, tsk, Jim. That's what for ever dem is saying the JUDGE is essentially saying. C'mon, it's not THAT hard to understand the poster's point.

That judge was probably a democrat.

And you're definitely an idiot.

LOL LOL Local!

I go to bars all the time am also a male but if I ever get assulted and the judges tell me if I hadn't been there it wouldn't have happened then I would be held in contempt of court for my reply. My reply would not be contempt of the court just for the judge.

dlopez see your page. I commented on it.

I agree with your comment.

Agree! How the woman became a judge is in question here also. It is no secret that there are a few who somehow bluff their way through the system and become "public servants" and if the powers that be do not remove them from office and disbarr them immediately then they are worse than she.

What too many people are failing to recognize is their personal belief in what a judge does and does not have the right to do. Unfortunately, as a judge, they do have the right to voice their opinion on a particular matter, most of the time it aligns with public opinion, but more often that not it is just that, the judges personal view on the matter. She is an elected official performing within her capacity as a judge regardless of what you all may think of her comment. I do not condone the cops behavior nor do I agree with the way the judge statements were presented, but people can recognize the reality of the fact that any 'social setting with alcohol' is in fact a risky situation, or they can continue to live it the false utopia of the perfect world ideal.

If any social setting with alcohol is risky, why not censor the cop for drinking? Its not the victim's fault someone blames drinking for their behaviour.

And just to be clear, most men can drink and not assault anyone so why don't we just place the blame on the perp? Not the victim. Not the setting. The person who broke the law, assaulted someone, and is a COP.

I guess a wedding reception is considered a "risky situation"? How about a child's baptism celebration? Risky situation? How about an engagement party? Risky situation?

How do I sign that petition?? That judge should be removed immediately!

Alaska girl , some bars are seedy dumps and dangerous to visit, not like your average baby shower or birthday party.....

Get it?

Maybe, it depends upon the bar, maybe she was right...

You are so funny!

If you can't figure out the difference all on your own, then I think everyone should leave you as completely clueless as you most assuredly are. I really cannot believe that you are equating a smack down from a cop giving out a ticket to a woman who was sexually assaulted and then re-victimized in court by the judge.

Did you miss the part about the judge being appointed to her position?

No judge is voted into office; they are all appointed. The exception is the Supreme Court, but even those judges are not elected by the people-at-large.

@TisEyerish

Judges are in fact voted into office, take a drive around town during an election year and see how many judges are up for election. It is true that certain types of judges are appointed.

Tiseyer -

Didn't read the whole article did you? "Hatch, who was elected to a full term in November 2010, is up for reelection in 2014."

BTW - most judges are elected in this country.

The harpy appointed this rightwing, blame-the-victim judge.

Could it be possible this NBC news reporter has a wrong "fact" in the report?!?? Nah, impossible. ( :

"Hatch, a Republican appointed by Gov. Jan Brewer in June 2010, did not return a telephone call from NBC News seeking comment"

The article is wrong, she wasn't re-elected, it was a retention vote.

No person deserves to be groped or mishandled and two wrongs never make a right. Wrong is wrong is wrong, but there are situations that put one at risk for being wrongfully handled. Like going into a gay bar and making nasty slurs about gays, leaving your child alone with someone you barely know, or having one's wallet out flashing money and then walking out to a dark area alone. There are scum who will take advantage of women, men, children, etc. Again, it doesn't make it right for someone to take advantage of anyone or any situation and the perpetrator should be IMHO severely punished and not the victim, but people should also try to avoid situations that can make them victims.

Dear Mike,

Your post sounds good outright, but I disagree with you.

When will the admonishments for BOYS AND MEN begin on "how to avoid raping someone". The woman had every right to be at the bar that night with friends. Why didn't the judge admonish MEN to stay away from bars if they can't control themselves.

A crime was committed. And this egghead judge, BLAMED THE VICTIM and then gave the offender a "slap on the wrist'. "Boys will be boys" mentality.

This judge was not impartial. She has no business being on the bench.

Wonder why none of you felt that way when the story about the homosexual judge in Dallas (Texas, no las nalgas...) who refused to marry straight couples....?

More PSEUDO-LIBERAL CHERRY PICKING...?

why yes in fact, ..... it is a fine example of that. : P

Maybe the bar was a particularly dangerous one in a bad part of town and she was just trying to impart some wisdom upon the victim..?