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Subscribe to RSSThree weeks ago, an alumnus of Franciscan University of Steubenville was researching online a rape that had occurred years ago near the campus.
One of the search results upset the alum: A social work course on deviant behavior offered by the Catholic university that lumped together “murder, rape, robbery, prostitution, homosexuality, mental illness and drug use.”
Franciscan University
The alum, a member of a Facebook group for gay graduates of Franciscan University, posted the course description, and members of the group contacted the sole accrediting agency for social work education to examine the university’s program.
"The fact that homosexuality was identified in the course description as a deviant behavior raises a flag," Stephen Holloway, director of the accrediting agency, Council on Social Work Education, told National Public Radio.
The group, meanwhile, has asked that “homosexuality” and “mental illness” be removed from the description.
Mental illness is not a deviant behavior but a condition, noted Elizabeth Vermilyea, a psychology professional who founded the Facebook group, and homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973.
“I’ve talked to people who took the course and judging from the textbook, it seemed pretty harmless,” she said. “But that description sends a message in an atmosphere that’s already sending messages.”
Plus, she said: “They didn’t put pedophilia in that description and that would have been a no-brainer.”
Franciscan University defended itself in a statement to NPR, saying the university “follows Catholic Church teaching in regard to homosexuality and treats homosexual persons with “respect, compassion, and sensitivity” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2358) while holding homosexual acts as “intrinsically disordered” (Catechism, No. 2357).
But Vermilyea argued the course description doesn’t follow Catholic teachings.
“The Catholic Church says that being gay is not sinful but that the actions are disordered,” she said. In other words, it’s OK to be gay, just not to act on those feelings.
Gregory Gronbacher, a member of the Facebook group who graduated from Franciscan in 1990, said he doesn’t believe administrators are evil – “They mean well but they live within a bubble.”
“If you live in that sort of intellectual isolation where gay people are hidden, it’s easy to wander down that path where gay people are rapists and murderers – that scary 'other,'” he said.
In college he was a serious Catholic who dated quietly – speaking out could have gotten him booted from school, he said. He went on to become a theology and philosophy professor but has since left academia and the church, in part because of its stance on homosexuality.
Other members of the Facebook group – there are 105 – have posted memories of being ridiculed, shamed and sent to recovery groups for being gay.
“I didn’t start it for activism,” Vermilyea said. “It was community for people who understand the lesbian gay experience but also who went to that university. A lot of people in the group needed their wounds to heal.”
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Praying to plaster of paris statues, whispering secrets behind screens, and taking spiritual or moral advice from pedophiles, or those who harbor and/or protect pedophiles, seems pretty deviant to me.
Maybe the Catholic University should focus the first semester of this curriculum on evaluating the deviant behavior which is pervasive in the Catholic priesthood, in order to set a good baseline and perspective for evaluating other behaviors.
Do as I say, not as I do.
Granite, you mock a religion -- doesn't seem very tolerant of you! The Catholic Church is not a democratic institution where everyone gets to do anything they like. Do not follow the Church's teachings if you don't like them, but don't ridicule what other people choose to believe.
Seriously fool, why are you defending a church that to this very day is still protecting priests that raped children? I can ridicule people for choosing to believe in a so called church that has in fact been responsible for some of the most evil heinous acts ever commited in the name of God. And quite frankly I question your character for defending it. You are truly sick if you honestly think the catholic church has anything at all to do with God,
Homosexuality is deviant behavior. The only reason it was removed from the DSM was because the head guy was gay, it was a political reason, not a medical one.
Remove mental illness and drug use and insert pedophilia, beastiality and necrophilia and you would have a far more accurate class to teach.
Merely your opinion.
Proof?
Just because people want to believe something doesn't automatically grant them or their belief amnesty from scrutiny or criticism.
The facebook group wonders why it does not address pedophilia, but from what I have read, the pedophlia behavior of those priests that have been accused have all been homosexual behavior, and thus would be covered in the course description.
As an orthodox Christian, I identify homosexual behavior as deviant. Biblically, it is a sin. It would be appropriate for a Catholic university to thus identify it as such. Those who would neither teach at or attend a Catholic or other religious university should not concern themselves with this issue, as it is an issue within the church, and you obviously want no part of it. Allow those who do to have their beliefs.
We don't pray to statues. Statues are representations that are used as sacramentals. They are no more the person they represent than a picture of your parents is actually your parents. They are merely images and we do not pray to the image but God or the person represented.
Confession is not whispering secrets; it is confession.
The incidence of pedophile priests is no more than sexual misbehavior of many varieties in other groups/religions.
Finally, deviancy is behavior out of the norm. Many behaviors are deviant. Just the truth. Call it what it is.
What the vast majority of you do not like about Catholicism is what you THINK that you know. Most of you are simply bigots.
Only small minds get fixated on the very imperfect human beings that subscribe to a religious faith or staff its institutions. To judge any institution by the failings of its adherents is illogical.
Imagine the outcry if one proposed judging the Civil Rights movement by the plagiarism and philandering
of ML King Jr. And yet the hypocrisy of judging the Catholic Church in the same fashion is entirely acceptable among the self-proclaimed "enlightened" such as Robert here or leftrightcenter.
While I agree with Catholics in that they should be allowed to teach what they want at a Catholic school (you choose to go there, and should know their stances on stuff), I do find it odd that they included homosexuality and not paedophilia. Maybe paedophilia is included, just not in the course discription, idk.
gordy327
Homosexuality is Deviant Behavior, this is fact not opinion.
Proof: Is same sex natural or unnatural? Well answer this first, Can life continue to exist in same sex relationships. How can life exist if, you cannot reproduce?
Answer: NO! So it is unnatural. Therefore it is wrong and one must conclude that anyone who participates in such acts is, a deviant. The only reason to perform the act is self gratification.
As for everyone else condemning the Catholic Church for pedophile priest; The Church has admitted it was wrong and that the entire situation was handled poorly. The church has moved on to the healing process and the cleaning process. This does not mean they teach acceptance of deviant behavior.
Pedophiles are everywhere in all Church's, probably more so than you might hear about or see. Don't be ignorant to the truth that pedophiles are only in place or church, they are everywhere. They are conniving, manipulating and very good liers. The Catholic Church can be lied to. Everything however is based between man and God and no one else. These men will have to pay for their crimes. However, they are nothing to the many good priest, that have been dragged through the mud for the actions of a few.
Joey don't go trying to obscure the discussion with facts.. people don't like facts. Besides people are willing to bury their heads as far in the sand as they can to make it easier to ignore you.
My favorite argument in favor of homosexuality being natural is that animals do it... natural/unnatural.. I probalby would have said normal...abnormal
Normal
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
Abnormal
1. not normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard: abnormal powers of concentration; an abnormal amount of snow; abnormal behavior.
What an idiot you are. Just one of these characters who'll believe anything s/he reads or hears about the Catholic Church that's negative.
Homosexuality is natural, as it's been observed in over 1500 species in nature, and has existed in approximately the same percentage of the population. Bedsides, gays can and do reproduce as well. Being gay doesn't mean one is automatically sterile.
Your 'conclusions," much like your "facts," are quite erroneous and flawed!
Sure took them long enough!
prove there's a god!
Joey first needs to get some facts.
Interesting that so many people in this forum are condoning homosexual behavior while condemning the Catholic church because of the pedophilia scandal when the vast majority of the pedophiles were homosexuals. The scandal wasn't about priests seducing teenage girls; it was about priests molesting boys, as this article details: In the rush to judgment, however, the self-righteous armchair moralists conveniently omit that fact.
And that sword cuts both ways does it not.
Jesus was gay.
If homosexuality is normal because animals do it then bestiality is normal too because my dog is always trying to hump my foot. Nuf said?
Homosexuality and bestiality are two completely different things. They cannot be compared at all. Putting people and animals together is bestiality. Putting an adult and a child together is pedophilia. Putting two adults of the same sex together is homosexuality.
Comparing the actions two adult humans to two adult animals to determine what could be considered "natural" or "normal" is a common practice. The fact remains that all the animal species which practice homosexuality are neither suffering nor going extinct because of it. Thus, homosexuality can be seen as a natural and acceptable act with few, if any, negative consequences.
Lots of people on this thread are confusing pedophilia with homosexuality. Please understand that pedophiles do not care about the sex of the children they molest and rape, just the age. If priests were raping grown men, then it would be an act of homosexuality. The priests are molesting and raping children. That is pedophilia, which is completely different from homosexuality. As for why the priests tend to attack boys instead of girls, just take a look at their religion. A priest or one of higher rank cannot "lay with a woman." So, they take boys instead.
Nope...what people are saying is that the very vast majority of pedophilia is a male developing a sexual interest in young boys and then acting on those impulses. The very reason they molest children of the same sex as themselves is that they have an attraction to persons sharing the same sexual characteristics. You can try to normalize homosexuality all you want...I frankly do not give a damn what someone does with their you know what to some other guys you know what...I just want my dog to stop humping my foot...I do not swing that way.
If I were to attend a Jewish academy/university, I would be prepared to take classes that might teach something I don't agree with, since I am not Jewish. If I were to attend a catholic school, I would expect to be taught things that can be found in Catholic doctrine. Wouldn't people who chose to attend a Catholic school and claim to be Catholic already know what the Catholic church believes or teaches? I'm not Catholic, but this is not news to me that the Catholic church believes and teaches this. If you don't want a Catholic education, don't go to a Catholic school. There are plenty of other universities that are very pro gay/lesbian and many even have professors who are openly gay/lesbian. Why not just attend one of those? Find a school that has large societies, marches, etc where you may feel more comfortable and leave the private schools to those who choose to attend. I'm not saying that homosexuality is right or wrong, just that in this instance, they could have chosen a school that wasn't Catholic and a religion that was more tolerant of their beliefs and lifestyle.
Monkeys eat their own feces, black widows kill their mates. Just because we see it in Nature does not mean it is acceptable for us to do it. We are humans and we were told not to do it because we are supposed to be held to a higher standard than the animals; we are Gods best creation and we are ruining his name with homosexuality, war, murder, and other numerous sins.
That still means that homosexuality is natural.
BTW, God does not make our laws; we are a secular nation. Furthermore, there are millions of people who do not believe in God or the bible.
Bedsides, gays can and do reproduce as well. Being gay doesn't mean one is automatically sterile.
Without outside assistance, homosexuals cannot reproduce.
Thom, NO ONE can reproduce without "outside assistance".
Perhaps you missed what I said earlier: "gays can and do reproduce as well." Although, Erin said it best above! lol
sounds like a bunch of cry babeys wanting to b heard if u dont care for the religions stance on gay or homosexual points then goto a school that aint religios.i personally think churches and busness owners from other countrys should pay taxes but no when its time to pay taxes the hindi shop switches owners,churches are just over glorified theivs.
John
1... businesses pay taxes and vastly more than you or I do.
2.... Churches operate out of money that was already taxed. Nor do they generate physical products that are sold and therefore no tax is levied as it is in businesses.
3... the only people crying in this story are those in favor of homosexuality crying about what the church is teaching about.
i agree with granite1297101
I don't.
I don't either.
Make that three...
4
5
But Vermilyea argued the course description doesn’t follow Catholic teachings.
''The Catholic Church says that ''being gay is not sinful but the actions are "disorderly'''' she said. In other words it’s OK to be gay just not to act on those feelings. That is incorrect...the Catholic church if it is teaching from the Bible I read DOES IN FACT say that being gay IS sinful...PERIOD!!! Gregory Gronbachera member of the Facebook group who graduated from Franciscan in 1990 said he doesn’t believe administrators are evil “They mean well but they ''live within a bubble.'' No they live in the world they were raised in within the Catholic church tradition teachings that IN FACT do say that homosexuality IS a sin. “If you live in that sort of ''intellectual isolation'' (funny term that they like to use) where gay people are hidden it’s easy to wander down that path where gay people are rapists and murderers (nobody says this about them thats of their own fabrication.) that scary "other" he said.
Actually Bill, the Lord Jesus Christ never once said anything at all about homosexuality, but did have a strong condemnation for those who rape children you sick little pedophile.
does it surprise anyone to know bill is a pedo state fan too? pedos of a feather...
Bill,
Incorrect.
One can have the tendency to sin but it is not a sin until it is acted upon or dwelled upon. We are all sinners and choose to do what we know is right or wrong.
keftright,
But God did say it was wring and Jesus is also God. You are incorrect yet again.
Actually leftrightcenter,
Jesus never said anything against paedophila. Unless you consider the part about not making one of them sin, but if its not a sin, then no, he said nothing against it. He also never said anything about rape, so Id assume there were somethings he didnt feel were as important at the time, or maybe the disciples missed some @!$%#. IDK
leftrightcenter
Actually, both God and Jesus spoke of both. What did God think of Homosexuality, well look at Sodomn and Gomorah. The city was punished for it's Diviant acts. Jesus also said marriage is between a man and a woman and what God has put together let no man put assunder, this was more for divorce but none the less, God made man and woman. There was no need to speak of homo's at it was made clear in Leviticous and S&G.
As for Children [1] And he said to his disciples: It is impossible that scandals should not come: but woe to him through whom they come. [2] It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones. [Luke 17:2]
leftofrightcenter,
Actually you are wrong, it is in the Bible and says it is a Sin for Man to Lay with Man as he Would a Woman...
 Leviticus 18 verse 22
leftrightcenter,
Apologies, did not get name incorrect on purpose...
Just like the our present Pope...this course is archaic. It should have been removed DECADES ago...but then again...we are speaking about the Catholic Church (no relation to God or Jesus).
I can't WAIT to get to heaven and have a chat. I am sure we will all be enlightened in the truest sense of the word LOVE!
The current pope is a nazi and a protector of child raping priests.
Ah Marie,
Morailty does not change; just people's acceptance of evil.
And thats why people have stopped accepting the Catholic church.
MrBurns: My feelings exactly!
This account is described to the NPR as characteristics of the potentiality for the lesbian and or gay arena to accept that deviant behaviors exist. Although, the act of perusing the Social Work curriculum a reader could take the meaning out of context. The informational abstract for data also includes heterosexuals and the writer is suggesting maladaptive behaviors do occur in all capacities of viable cognition.
but of course they forgot that raping children and protecting the criminals is deviant behavior. So is being a Nazi like the pope.
No, no one forgot that and it is not accepted. Your hate is palpable. As a kid the Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth and he has long since left that ideal. I can see that you are still an idiot, however.
To be fair to the pope, if you didnt go along with being a Nazi, or part of the Hitler youth, you or your family would be in danger. I dont think we should fault the pope, or anyone for that matter, for what they did as a child in a pretty horrible situation.
It's true that "homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973." What the story doesn't mention is that the decision was the result of intense lobbying, intimidation and coercion by the so-called Gay PA, a homosexual group within the American Psychiatric Association. First-hand accounts are available on the Internet.
The American Medical Association, The American Psychiatric Association, The American Psychological Association, The American Psychoanalytic Association, The American Academy of Pediatrics, The National Association of Social Workers, etc.
Those are just a few who have stated that homosexuality should not be treated as a mental disorder and that sexual orientation is not a choice and can not be changed. All have done their own research and all came to that conclusion.
Also, you must know and consider the fact that many of those "first-hand accounts" are made up just to suit their political/religious needs and views to try and drive people away from the truths and facts that have been discovered through years of hard work and research.
Once again the Catholic church shows the world that it is still living in the 1600's, and would probably argue with Jesus himself.
If Jesus truly existed. Jury is still out.
@tatas: the jury isn't out for anyone who has actually turned a page to research the notion. Even the The Jewish historian Josephus confirms the existance of Jesus and the Roman Annuls mention him in their pages of history. I stopped researching when I found 10 sources outside of the New Testament that confirmed Jesus existed. No one learned on the topic questions this.
Right and wrong do not change but people's acceptance of evil does.
Actually Tatas, the jury came back long ago. You can question whether or not he was the messiah, but he most certainly existed. He was either son of God or a crazy man, you can decide.
Since this is an OPENLY Catholic University, anyone who chooses to GO there should assume that the university would abide by the teachings of the Catholic Church. If a student can't abide by Catholic teachings, then they have NO BUSINESS attending a Catholic University and then screaming 'foul' when it doesn't endorse sinful behaviors such as homosexuality, premarital sex, abortion, etc.
de·vi·ant
[dee-vee-uh nt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
deviating or departing from the norm; characterized bydeviation: deviant social behavior
Homosexuality is 'departing from the norm'. Just like mental illness, murder, etc. These things are not 'the norm'. I know y'all will jump on this and say 'homosexuality is the norm.' I think a lot of people in society are trying to get it to be the norm, but (unfortunately or fortunately -depending on your views), it is not currently the norm.
Perhaps they should have placed these two social issues apart from the those that are deliberately harming others (murder, etc.)
Most people don't jump out of airplanes. So are skydivers deviant? Bowlers? How about people who eat anchovy on pizza? Its all semantics that you cherry pick to suit your ignorance.
agreed.....
Yes, skydiving is deviant behavior! Lol. Exactly the point, it's departing from the norm.
EXACTLY... ppl who eat anchovies and jump out of airplanes ARE deviant to common practice. It's not that hard to understand, tag-2907728
We can jump. Jumping out of something too high would be deviant. Yes. Jumping is nartural.
A rectum is not naturally made to receive a penis; what is the point?. Doing so is also deviant.
NC:
Then please explain homosexual women.
Not long ago, my doctor showed me a piece of paper that listed my DNA. I had the X Y chromosomes. This, of course, meant that I am of the male species. Now I am no biolgist, but it seems to me that any thing else I think I am is a mental problem. I believe that queers should check their DNA. If, like me, they have the X Y chromosomes, they are male. If they have the X Y chromosomes, they are female. Anything else they think they are is upstairs in their head, and they need mental health treatment.
Very convenient, and telling, that this Catholic course includes homosexuality, but leaves out pedophilia in its list of deviant behaviors.
And since when are sins against Catholic doctrine declared deviant behavior for the rest of us? This is a course for future social workers, not Catholic priests. I don't want to deal with a social worker who thinks his sin is my deviance. And which contradicts the objective research and findings in the psychology field. Which means it's this Catholic course which is deviant from the medical norm, not the people who don't follow the Catholic Catechism.
And you wonder why this country's Founders included separation of church and state in the US Constitution. Whether Catholics or Evangelicals, this is the kind of enforcement of specific religious doctrine onto the rest of us that the Founders feared, knowing the horrors it has produced in European countries.
And don't say that this is a Catholic university, that may teach what it wants. It's been accredited to teach courses related to the licensed field of social work, and accreditation must follow its own professionally developed standards, not what the Pope believes.
Teach this medical "heresy" if they like, but then let them lose their accreditation, so that their diplomas are worthless, and their graduates will not practice this religious nonsense outside the Church under the guise of social work, and misrepresent it as scientifically-established fact.
Many things could have been included. The list was supposed to be an exhaustive one?
Vespa,
We Catholics believe that Jesus gave the head of the church, the Pope, the authority to interpret Scripture and to make rules that are binding on Earth and in Heaven. Don't like it? Take it up with Jesus. He is the one who did it.
Yes, the University must teach according to Catholic doctrine or lose its affiliation with the Catholic Church.
Wow. How can you be so wrong in so many areas? The answer is: your ignorance.
Red_Vespa: Thank you for clearing these muddy waters. Succinct and to the point.
Reminds me of Charlton Heston parting the waters, and we were to believe?
Let's be real here. We're talking about individuals that like to put their penises up
another man's butt. How can that be described as anything other than deviant?
Have we now become a society where the truth is no longer allowed?? All in the name
of political correctness. Please, get back in the closet. What you do is disgusting.
90% of the male population couldn't agree with you more. The other 10%: 5% are gay, 5% should be gay
Freedom,
So, is it still deviant to have anal intercourse with a woman also? To me it seems to be the accepted norm... Just asking?
Freedom 901079: It's not truth you're looking for, or facts. You're looking to make sense of your own life. Therapy is good, but not anyone from a catholic institution.
Freedom:
What you do in the bedroom is no more my business than what two homosexual men do in their bedroom should be to you. Get your head out of the gutter and give some genuine facts as to why homosexuality is wrong/harmful other than "it's yucky" or "God said so"
DEVIANT BEHAVIOUR.....someone define deviant behaviour please! There is almost nothing we humans do that is not deviant to someone somewhere.....being a homosexual is no more or less deviant than being a politician or sitting in a church and talking to yourself in latin or being an alcoholic executive of a corporation.....someone...somewhere; could describe almost anything we do as deviant or unnatural.
Yes but the problem here is that you've got a group of deviants who want normal people to walk around with blinders on and act polite and cool about their deviation. It's obvious that attraction to the same sex deviates from the biological intent of sex...propagation of the species. Let's get real for a change: does a breeder have any use for a gay stud?
Whether or not any deviant behavior is sinful or evil or whatever is a totally subjective/social matter but deviation from whatever the "norm" might be is not.
Cincinnati Rick:
If what you say is true, then what is the point of condoms and birth control? Sex is more than just a reproductive act (not only in humans but in a few other species as well).
meanman---don't be so mean
meanman--don't be so mean!
homosexuality fits the definition of deviant. you people should grow a pair and just live your lives stop whining about what other people think.
Thank you Uncle Henry.
Well said.
Pedophilia and Bestiality fit the definition of deviant far better than homosexuality. Also, any anal and oral intercourse (whether between heterosexuals or homosexuals), along with masturbation, can be considered deviant sexual behavior. Thus, since heterosexuals have anal and oral intercourse and masturbate far more than homosexuals (because they outnumber homosexuals), it would have been more appropriate to put heterosexuality on that list as well.
As much of a non-believer as i am, i side with the church on their stance. First off, it is their right not to agreee with homosexuality and if they chose to teach against it, that's their perogative. Secondly, even as a non-believer of religion, there is something inherently wrong with homosexuality. It's just plain wrong and every straight man i know is disgusted by it. I'd love to know where these reports that society is becoming more tolerant of homosexuality are coming from. I don't see it happening even outside my circle of friends. Only the women seem to be more tolerant of it.
The APA and nature itself disagree with you.
And we also have the right to criticize them for it!
Sounds like some peope are insecure about themselves.
And intolerance is a problem in itself.
Nothing wrong with being intolerant especially to a deviance of this magnitude
So its OK to be intolerant about the sins of murder, rape, pedophilia, etc., bur wrong to be intolerant of the sin of faggotry?
So you say. But there sure seems something wrong with taking pride in intolerance!
Ohwell: Reread post #11 by Red_Vegas for a sane, focused view on this issue of what is taught and accreditation.
I assumed the course would be about Catholicism, being a Catholic, its theology and its priests.
JXC,
Oops! Your bigotry and your ignorance is showing.
NC: and your christianity is showing, or lack of.
“The Catholic Church says that being gay is not sinful but the actions are disorderly,” she said. In other words, it’s OK to be gay, just not to act on those feelings.
Well not to split hairs... but... while acting on homosexual inclinations is sin, and the orientation itself is disordered*. It is not ordered toward the mutual sanctification of spouses, for indeed it is not marital, and it is certainly not ordered towards procreation. It also contradicts nature. To self identify, publicly, as gay is to associate oneself with the disordered tendency. Though it is not a culpable matter to be so tempted, it is a little misleading to say that being beset by a disordered inclination is OK, in so much as OK denotes a lack of disorder. The Catholic teaching on homosexuality does not condemn the person...but it in no way approves of action, the disorder inclination, or the idea of being openly/proudly gay.
* CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity......
Correct.
Those behaviors are Deviant. As the Catholic church stands , it does not believe in homosexuality.
Why do Christians allow people to attack our beliefs, when there are riots if you simply burn a Koran?
Cathloics cannot vote for Obama because of his stance on this subject..... which he flipped on recently to get the Gay vote... shows how desperate he is...
Merely your opinion. But you seem to confuse behavior with orientation.
Why should personal beliefs get a free pass from scrutiny, especially if those beliefs tend to be intolerant of others?
The operational principle is apparently "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." It is for this reason that progressives, hostile to any significant role for religion in society, find it expedient to champion anything at all that would put a stick in the eye of the dominant (and therefore, from their viewpoint, more menacing) religion in their society. And so the more reactionary (and even barbaric) outside religion tends to get a smarmy free pass. Never mind that Gordy here would be summarily executed in many Islamic countries.
When those others are intolerable, then we need to help them with their problems.
Considering religion plays a significant role in bigotry and intolerance, I'd say that causes plenty of hostility!
Well then, I'm glad I live in America where religion and god do not make our secular laws!
Dan Higgins: President Obama has it all over any catholic person that has posted thus far. All I've read is fear, hate, ignorance. It appears the catholic doctrine is mired in power and control, in bigotry. President Obama, if you knew the man, is endowed by the Creator with all the character traits I believe God would want to see in his creation. It's no surprise the Creator covered it all with a Black skin. Catholics are taught to be racist and patronizing but it's not recognized until one is allowed to leave the nest and fly. Then the world opens and catholicism is left behind, far behind, with its rationalization and limiting rules.
BTW, Prez Obama has been doing the work of Jesus, taking care of the poor, striving for equality for ALL. Prez Obama is also following the encyclical of Pope Pius(?) who wrote the importance of workers to band together and form unions. Prez Obama is striving for the middle class - for working people, and has deep respect for all of the Creator's earth - which is why he feels regulations on corporations are necessary. But don't let a Black President, who is worth dozens of you christians, sway your vote. Keep your Romney/Ryan that will have you begging and deriding as you like, on your knees.
OBAMA 2012 and a strong Democratic Congress to continue the upward path to civility
Romney 1040 Are you afraid to show how you cheated? and lied?
As one who believes that you are born with your sexual preference already imprinted, I'd have a hard time referring to homosexuality as "deviant behavior". Keen observers of nature and the natural world understand that homosexuality is a birth defect. The "grand plan" of the natural world is that species have a strong natural instinct to mate and proliferate in order to insure the survival of that species. If that instinct is missing, then it is obviously a deviation from nature. Of course it's currently politically incorrect to use the term "birth defect", not because it's erroneous, but because it's deemed insensitive.
Why would anyone mistreat or disrespect a person with any kind of a birth defect?
You may believe that "you are born with your sexual preference already imprinted" but history proves otherwise. There have been many (one look at Hollywood is enough) who go from straight to homo and back to straight depending on which way the wind blows.
Bad example since you probably don't have a clue about what's going on in Hollywood. Most of the examples you might cite would be actors who have always been gay. Because they feel it would be detrimental to their career, they try to appear straight. They are "living a lie". The studios even used to find pseudo-wives for them in order to perpetuate that lie.
This is also why ministers and therapists have claimed to have "cured" homosexuality. Those subjects simple decide that it would be easier for them to conform to their surroundings. Some even go on to marry and have families. All the therapist has accomplished is to make them a latent homosexual.
A better example for you to have used would be men in prisons. In that scenario, I feel that some men, when subjected to total sexual deprivation, look for sexual release in the most convenient and expedient way possible.
Lee,
I understand your point but it is no different than saying that those who are born with a proclivity to steal or lie or kill. We can't accept or allow those behaviors either even if they come with the package.
Of course, NC, I can't tell you what and what not to accept. But let me ask you this: First of all, I'll assume that you, like I, were born a heterosexual. Do you think, NC, that there is any amount of therapy that could make you start liking boys?
Me neither.
Don't like the Catholic Church or the University? Leave. God does not sway with popular opinion and He believes in you, whether you believe in Him or not.
Prove there's a god!
Indeed. Promoting ignorance, intolerance, and indoctrination is not what I'd call a good education.
Prove there is not a God!
Steve, This is the closest you've to making sense all day!
Regarding your entry below - Can you tell me where to find Darwin's writings where he refutes his theory?
A logical fallacy: you cannot prove the non-existance of something. You make the claim of or on behalf of a god, you bear the responsibility of proving it!
It seems Gordy, that you're more mad that the Catholic Church isn't teaching your OWN intolerance and indoctrination - that intolerance of "intolerance" is something to take pride in (a typical liberal view) and that homosexuality is OK.
All that is, is another type of indoctrination.
And I second Steve's call for you to prove that there is not a God. Though I doubt you could formulate an argument without using copious appeals to ridicule and spite, as well as pitting religion and science against one another in a false dilemma. Those seem to be the most favored (and ironically, illogical) tactics of your kind. But by all means, take a stab at it.
You presume too much. Although there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
Then I'll say it again: A logical fallacy: you cannot prove the non-existance of something. You make the claim of or on behalf of a god, you bear the responsibility of proving it!
One cannot formulate a valid argument based on a logical fallacy.
Okay, please remember that this is the same organization that branded Galileo a heretic for saying the earth revolved around the sun. They finally got around to officially changing that viewpoint several hundred years later.
It took them awhile to accept evolution too.
If you read some of the responses after mine you will see some people lag behind as much or more than the church. On another note, they are probably the ones still fighting evolution. The dense mind is hard to penetrate.
Evolution is a THEORY from the mind of a man, Charles Darwin, who several years later wrote extensively on the fallacy of this THEORY.
Steve, stop capitalizing theory like you are making any type of point what so ever. Gravity is also a theory. Learn what theory means in a scientific way, so you dont go floating off into space.
Tracy and Gordy
You guys!! Look, the Catholic church supported science and actually funded science endevors. In fact they had already proved Galileo's theory 100 years prior but kept it as a theory. This is Fact!!!
As it turns out
It is a good thing that the Church did not rush to embrace Galileo’s views, because it turned out that his ideas were not entirely correct, either. Galileo believed that the sun was not just the fixed center of the solar system but the fixed center of the universe. We now know that the sun is not the center of the universe and that it does move—it simply orbits the center of the galaxy rather than the earth.
As more recent science has shown, both Galileo and his opponents were partly right and partly wrong. Galileo was right in asserting the mobility of the earth and wrong in asserting the immobility of the sun. His opponents were right in asserting the mobility of the sun and wrong in asserting the immobility of the earth.
Had the Catholic Church rushed to endorse Galileo’s views—and there were many in the Church who were quite favorable to them—the Church would have embraced what modern science has disproved.
Apparently, you do not understand what constitutes a scientific theory.
Source? Darwin never recanted his theory and science has only reinforced it.
The church preferred ignorance. the beauty of science is that it does revise it's ideas and thoeries as new information is presented. That's how science and knowledge grow. The church did not want to promote that!
Peodophiles, Prostitutes and their customers, Rapist, Bestiality practitioners and every other deviant always rail against the Church wanting to continue in their sin, crime and deviancy. They can not control (self control and discipline) themselves in any possible way and seek out victims recruit and convert to their "lifestyle". For those who struggle their is grace to those that participate is what they have earned. 30 % of all STD infections reside in the homosexual groups (CDC data). It is a dead end when it comes to reproduction but they have to use the other sex to impregnate or adopt. And finally if they cannot get acceptance then they are intolerant.
Considering how many children are thrown away or abused by their parents, reproduction is not necessary. It is nice to see you do not consider the fact that the world is overpopulated and becoming more-so with every passing day.
Homosexual groups make up roughly 1-3% of the population. The only STD that is prevalent within the homosexual communities (specifically the male homosexual communities) is HIV/AIDS. All other STDs were most prevalent in heterosexual women than men. Thus, your conclusion of "30% of all STD infections reside in the homosexual groups" is completely false.
avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm
cdc.gov/std/stats10/trends.htm
cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/us.htm