Fire them all and hire a new batch of non-Union teachers that want to work. These are some of the Highest paid teachers in the country, they should be ashamed.

GloryHound.. you forgot another key stat.

2nd highest paid ( on average ) group of Teachers in Country.. AND they have a Graduation Rate around 50 percent.

The article said, evaulate us on what we do not what we cannot control.

Fine, it is YOUR JOB to teach the Children in your class. The way to judge IF you are doing it right, is IF they pass your class and eventually get their diploma.

50 percent of your Students are not getting their Diploma. Last time I was in school a 50 percent grade was a failing grade. Looks like you are not doing your job.

Was talking with my mother ( retired from teaching last year ) about this strike. She agreed with me. Fire them all, and we guarentee that you will get teachers flocking to the district for the current pay scale now being declined........

But there are new classes starting while these kids are out of school. Gang classes on how to cut some crack for the most profit, loading a long clip for your Semi, and of course robbing and killing the local population. No wonder there are huge spikes in gang youth deaths, the school system sucks in Chicago.

Those teachers are really intelligent. I applaud them. In fact, I think I will ask for the same thing at my work. I will demand a higher raise and I don't want my work evaluated. Sounds reasonable.

Seniority and a health care freeze? Seniority epitomizes everything that's wrong with unions, and I don't know why Chicago teachers should be immune from the health care costs everyone else is paying, especially on their salaries.

As for test scores, why shouldn't they be used in evaluating teachers? The article didn't say how they would be used. If your class had a 50% passing rate last year and this year it's 60%, then that would look favorably upon you. Conversely, if it dropped to 40%, then you suck and need to be replaced.

The teachers are afraid of anyone holding their feet to the fire.

no kidding. I want a job were if my performance is like the above article, I get a nice hefty raise. They should be happy they even have a job with benefits. PLEASE!!

I thought Teacher's Unions care about the "kids"? Once again THAT nonsense is proved wrong. We need to do to this Teacher's Union what Reagan did to the the Air Traffic Controllers Union. Tell these teachers you have the rest of the week to blow off steam but if you are not in the classroom Monday morning you are fired. Period. No discussions. No negotiations. No compromises. If you want a job come in Monday morning. If you DON'T want to work then continue to hold that sign while we find your replacement.

@Intel2 - Morning sarcasm, love it!

They did this to the Tribune workers too let them sit for almost a year! The union has no Idea what they are doing. Isn't this endangering the children's mental Health? I heard they have some stupid law you can't hold something like this against them for that union agreement or what ever, ya that's looking out for the kids.

Do them like Reagan did the Air Traffic Controllers, send them on their way. bye, bye.

I agree, fire them all and see if they can find jobs but it will not be here in Wisconsin because our Rock Star Governor has taken care of such problems.

Oh, Jeremy....you're such an old fashioned fuddy duddy....you want reasonable results, you want accountability, you want "pride in their work".....you're such a fool....that stuff went out long ago. I was a kid in California when the public school system there was the envy of the country, if not the world. That is long gone.....but, I'm happy to report, the teachers union is doing just fine....along with the $800,000 a year city council members and $400,000 per year city cop pensions. Oh, I forgot....those California cities are now bankrupt (to everyone's surprise?)...the rest of the state soon to follow. Rahm has one chance to get this right....my guess: he muffs it.

Who pays for all these promises? BTW, the city that once paid the highest to their public union workers, was Detroit. Chicago is following Detroit to the sewer because the math cannot be fixed by promising more.

Don't they realize this will hurt their "man" come November? Go ahead and strike. Show the American people what the unions are all about... Every little bit helps.

And where is Obama on this topic? He hasn't gotten the poll results yet to determine where he stands on this issue?

Evaluation will continue to be a sticking point. Based on the current "criteria" over 99% of teachers in Chicago rated satisfactory or exemplary. That outcome cannot be justified no matter how blindly liberal you may be.

Remember, it's ALWAYS about the money.

The union thinks poverty, crime, and homelessness should be acceptable excuses for low student performance. Does being poor really make people stupid? My family was not rich by any measure but that didn't inhibit my ability to learn. I might be able to understand how crime can affect their scores - time spent in prison is more focused on improving their criminal skills so as not to get caught next time rather than learning proper English, math, and science. Are there that many homeless people going to school that it has such a significant impact (percentage wise) to skew the data?

Sounds like the union is looking for excuses to keep teachers employed despite their ability to produce/educate.

Give them until the end of the week to come back to work - and fire those that don't come back (even if it's all of the teachers). Then you can hire teachers that are actually concerned about the kids.

Wow, still holding the children and the parents hostage over one primary issue (even though the union is saying 43 issues):

• Teacher Evaluations

Heck, if anyone worked for a company and received a bad "report card", they would probably be out looking for another job real soon.

So, Chicago teachers want more pay, less class size, and "restructure" their evaluation system. Sounds more like "JOB SECURITY" than "it is for the kids".

I agree with above posters: fire them all.

Interesting that the "teacher's T-shirts" did not have a RAISED FIST.

Gee, must be nice to make a large salary, comparatively speaking; receive benefits those of us in the private sector only dream of AND get 50% to 75% more time off than the rest of us--and be able to take off MORE time to complain! Poor, poor teachers. If they ever had to join the real world...

@JEREMYlk

Fine, it is YOUR JOB to teach the Children in your class. The way to judge IF you are doing it right, is IF they pass your class and eventually get their diploma

I normally would have agreed with you...then I married a teacher. She is a behavioral disorder special ed HS teacher. Half these kids have real issues, others just have bad parents. You have no idea how many times she comes home frustrated that these kids do not care about learning. All they do care about is getting wasted on weekends and becoming a rap or basketball star. She has tried countless of projects to stimulate learning and interest. Sometimes she gets a kid to light up but usually the light is snuffed by lack of support at home. She even earned teacher of the year in 2010 for her efforts.

BUT...unfortunately under your standards and the new contract, she would be under scrutany to be fired due to most of her students fail and test scores are low. The worst part... when they contact the parents, the parents actually turn on my wife accusing them of doing something to set off the student. This is not just with these kids, this is happening all over the country where parents do not want to parent their children leaving the teachers to fill in and disipline these students. They do not have the authority to disipline nor should they. This is what they mean by "judge us what we do, not what they can control". Schools of the past that you and I were in, where we had parents who cared and we didnt disrepect teachers, is not present today unfortunately.

Agreed. My sister makes $85,000 a year as a teacher in Michigan. She has 1/2 the year off, a GREAT retirement plan, great bennies and 35 free massages each year through her insurance. Jealous? Yes!

Fire them ALL and hire people who want to work.

Meanwhile, back in the hood, there were ten more bodies lying on the streets of beautiful Chicago, a product of business as usual in the gangbanging culture. They're always a week behind in their tally's presumably due to the time it takes to locate all the corpses from the most recent weekend's carnage.

At least this teachers strike serves to suppress the usual killings in the news. In any event, I think by now pretty much everyone knows Rahm will cave in, especially since the striking teachers are openly espousing socialism.

Last night o the news, some of the picketers had signs indicated that the strike was "For The Children" !!!

Right !

Miller...

Many articles in Connecticut newspapers lately decribing the truancy and absenteeism in our state's schools...especially in urban areas. And yes...he have city high schools with graduation rates just over 50%. And you are correct in that the teachers are not the one creating these children....it's other children who are creating these younger children.

And while folks can go on sites like 'Newsvine' and point fingers of blame at teachers, politicians, the dreaded 1%, the media and anyone or anything else one chooses to blame....just don't anyone have the gaul to point a finger of blame at "the poor".

Close to 20% of local, state, and federal spending is being directed at "the poor" and all that money...trillions...spent over the last few decades has accomplished what ??? More poverty.

And can anything be asked of them...something as simple as "can you wait 'til you're out of your teen years before getting pregnant???". No...that question dare not be posed.

A newspaper in my state ran a feature a couple months back where they stated that in order for a teenage mother with two babies to earn enough at a full time job to break even with the funding handed to her from local, state, and federal agencies, she would have to receive an annual paycheck of $49,500. How many jobs are waiting out there that can pay $49,500 to a teenage high school dropout with two children ?

And I don't blame teachers for not being able to save the trainloads of babies born to teenage high school dropouts.

But I do blame Chicago's teachers for refusing any iota of accountability in the classroom and for plastering themselves all over the TV news after refusing pay increases in the 15% to 16% area over the next few years in the middle of an economic case of disaster. Nice message to the other 23 million Americans looking for a decent job.

This strike has nothing to do with the students as the teachers are trying to claim. The main sticking point is that these teachers do not want to actually be evaluated on their performance and held responsible for actually doing their jobs. I would be nice to have a job that paid six figures (yes, senior teachers in Chicago make that much) where I was not held responsible for my job performance, got guaranteed raises regardless of whether I did my job well or not, was guaranteed not to have to pay any more for my health insurance like the rest of the nation, and had a cushy pension waiting for me when I retire. This is just not the way the real world works, but this is what the teachers in Chicago are demanding. The primary concern of the union is to keep the incompetent senior teachers in the classroom getting their raises while their students are failing and dropping out. I realize that a student's home life has a significant impact on how well they do in school, but teachers also can have a major impact. Good teachers know how to engage their students and hold their interest while bad ones stand up in front of class and read from a lesson plan in monotone, not caring if the students are paying attention or not. I have had both kinds of teachers and can tell you a bad teacher definitely affects student attitudes towards the class. They figure if the teacher does not care why should they. The use of student test scores as one part of a teacher evaluation system makes sense. The proposal is not to make this the only factor, just one factor that will go from 25% to 40% of the evaluation over 5 years. What is very telling in this whole strike is that the teachers union has not seen fit to propose any alternate evaluation system. This is because they are happy with the worthless one they have now where 99% of teachers are rated satisfactory or outstanding. Having been a manager I can tell you that this is extremely unrealistic and shows how worthless the current evaluation system is. There is not way that this large of a percentage of the teachers are doing their jobs well when the district has a graduation rate of only about 50%. This whole strike is about protecting the jobs of incompetent teachers who do not give a @!$%#, not about the students. It is time to pull a Reagan PATCO solution and just fire any teacher who does not return to work. There are more than enough unemployed teachers out there who would gladly take the jobs at 25% less pay and with the evaluation system.

jpeak...

The only reference that can be made on this news story that has anything at all to do with either 'Republicans' or 'Democrats' is the fact that about 90% or more of the people in the goofy hats and red shirts shoving their signs in Chicago taxpayers' faces will be pulling the lever for President Obama in November. In fact, they are probably waiting for him to show up and march with them as they refuse to "occupy" the proposed 16% pay increase that has been offered.

There are thousands of recent college grads that are probably more qualified and up to date then the striking teachers and who would love a job that pays $75,000 plus with a 14% raise in the next four years and all the benefits plus 4 months off each year. I agree, fire them all and bring in new teachers. If they want their jobs back then they can apply along with everyone else. This Karen Lewis sounds like a real bitch who is basking in her new power. Usually I am in favor of unions but not this time, they are leaving the children of Chicago behind for their own selfishness.

Illinois needs a governor like Walker from Wisconsin

What I find was interesting on interviews with the teachers..none mentioned the amount of raise they wanted...which by reports is int he naborhood of 15 to 19 %...and this is for teachers that are making nicely over 50K a year while this economy is fighting to get back up. AS for assessments of teachers,,yes..there should be ..and tough ones..If a teacher has a class that over half fail..or the entire school has that big of a problem..then something has to be done...and not just with those teachers.

Get rid of the unions - Get rid of the unions - Get rid of the unions - Get rid of the unions

Come on all together now. This will never happen they have all the officials in their pocket. If you

don't give us what we want are union will not vote for you and your out!

Obama needs the union vote and will sacrifice the children of Chicago to win the election.

Now you take the Union Prep Charter School, a Chicago private school, that sends every graduating senior to a certified 4 year university. I support them. Rules and regulations and a spirit to succeed is what is need and NO UNION! If Union Prep can do it with a 100% black student body, Obama can do it throughout Illinois. Yet Obama wants the union vote and says the hell to education and Illinois students.

yes Tony...didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what political way people screaming about kill unions lean. And my comment had nothing to do with the article only on the zillions of posts about the story.

We have the same problem here in California we have over 50% drop out rate 8( in LA unified and the most powerful union in California is the Teachers Union.

These teachers need to be fired and replaced

Teachers give the reason that they should not be judged on their job performance because of outside influence. Poverty, Crime, Drugs, That all sounds like an African American excuse for not getting an education. Sorry for any African American that has gotten an education and has done well for themselves I am not meaning to insult the African American community but quit using excuses for reasons you can't and start teaching your children reasons they should and show them, this is for all races. We can't get good teachers in the inner city because of these problems, but who causes these problems in the first place? Don't tell me the White man, there has been too many years where the chance to get an education has been there and no one has taken advantage of it, a teacher has the same education as any other teacher no matter where they teach. If they don't then they need to go back to school and be re-educated. They may not like where they teach that is their problem, if they don't then quit, and find another job.

@Seis - "There are thousands of recent college grads that are probably more qualified and up to date then the striking teachers and who would love a job that pays $75,000 plus with a 14% raise in the next four years and all the benefits plus 4 months off each year. I agree, fire them all and bring in new teachers. If they want their jobs back then they can apply along with everyone else. This Karen Lewis sounds like a real bitch who is basking in her new power. Usually I am in favor of unions but not this time, they are leaving the children of Chicago behind for their own selfishness."

Part of the issue is they were supposed to get a 4% pay increase this year, and Rahm and crew removed it. Likewise they increased the number of hours for kids to be in school - which let's be honest means more work for the same money equals a pay cut. Now while some of you might be thinking these teachers do not want to be evaluated, understand this. IF in 5 years you were being evaluated on something you can not control at 40%, even if you were stellar in your JOB - you would still be well below acceptable.

Teachers can not control the lack of involvement by the parents. That lack of involvement can come from a variety of sources - working more than 1 job, being a single parent with the boat load of kids, drug and booze addictions, pure laziness, or what have you. And consider this as well, there are between what 35-50 kids in a classroom in Chicago? Just how in the hell can you give ANY 1 on 1 time to a student that might be struggling. And what about the kids that aren't struggling in that class. Do you stimy thier education by spending more time with those that just don't get it, that just don't apply themselves, or have a shtty scholastic ethic? When you have 80% of those kids being on reduced or free lunches, do you think they come from homes where you have doctors and lawyers, scientists and politicians? Or do you think they are coming from a majority of homes where the parents are social assistance, that either don't want to work, don't care to work, or can't get a job. How many of these parents are GENERATIONAL Welfare cases? You can't shove a defective product to a teacher, and expect with a magic wand for that teacher to suddenly transform a kid into the next nobel peace laureiate.

While I do agree there should be evaluations of some sort, you can not hinge a 40% eval on a deck stacked against you. And truthfully, why in the hell should teachers be teaching kids JUST TO PASS A TEST. The purpose of education is not preparing for some damned test, but to enlighten, challenge, and teach the wealth of subject matter more than some compartmentalized junk. Kids are not college students and the method of teaching them isn't a collegiate seminar. And especially for kids that come from these "lower educated families". So let's be perfectly honest - how much parent involvement is there in the child's education, when I am willing to bet more than half of those parents of these kids are drop outs, boozers, and entitlement cases.

If you want to complain about professionals trying to fix a broken system, then start by looking at our government. Because sure as hell, I don't consider a pandering politician as anything other than a professional conman.

One of the main sticking points is using test scores to judge teacher performance. Since not all children have the same home support system that is short sighted. Some very hard working teachers have some kids in class that will never test well. Should that mean the hard working teacher should lose his/her job because they were handed a class that had no chance of testing well? If so you'll never get a good teacher or maybe any teacher in a poor urban school. While much can and should be done to improve school's test score teacher evaluation is not one of them. First tenure is a concept that needs to disappear. A principal needs to spend more time evaluating teachers and less time dealing with behavior problem of students, less time dealing with parents whining. Schools need the ability to kick out the students who's behaviors are way beyond fixable. Behave or get out needs to be the norm. Too many times one bad apple takes time and teaching away from others. A principal should be able to fire a teacher just like any private sector boss can. For cause. Screw up and you're gone. In some schools it is all but impossible to fire a bad teacher. Those of you that think teaching is easy should try something similar to it, herding cats. You won't find much harder than herding cats. Keeping a eye on 25-35 kids is no easy task. Add to that trying to teach them something it can be damn near impossible. I have worked in 99% white surburban school (color does not really matter)and I can tell you that dealing with mom, dad, step-mom, step dad, mom's boyfriend and dad's girlfriend is no easy task. Especially when it is all of the former for just one kid. I have seen parents that have had ten different phone numbers in one school year and moved four times. Parents that are all but impossible to get a hold of. I have seen divorce fights brought into the school, some physically. I have seen on many occasions parents show up at school drunk or stoned at 10 AM. I have had to go to a parents home multiple times because their first grader was not coming to school. A first grader does NOT ditch school. I have chased parents for failure to educate issues until they move out of my district only to have the adjoining district chase them back. Back and forth multiple times. Kids in school stoned and armed. Kids selling dope. Schools have become dangerous places for teachers and staff. I was threatened on more than one occasion. Some teachers are bad, some administrators are bad but if you are looking to blame someone start with what passes for parents now a days.

If these children were in an enclosed environment (e.g., boarding school) without ANY outside influences like family, peers, poverty, crime, etc.--then you might evaluate on teachers according to pupils' test scores. Otherwise, get real!

How about all you teacher haters, spend some time trying to teach these kids yourselves--or at least spend time observing in their classroom-then get back to me. Guarantee you'd be singing a different tune! Until you've walked in these teachers' shoes--how can you possibly judge them? You have no practical data upon which to base your criticisms. But that won't stop you, will it?

I'll just throw out a quick example as to why I understand their plight: I am a college graduate with a masters who always did well in school. My brother is two years older than me and has a slight learning disability. The teacher who had both of us did a significantly better job teaching him to raise his average to passing than for me who she had to do nothing to get an A. Its not apples to apples to compare a teacher's job to that of a worker in corporate America. I am a tax accountant and know what goals I need to meet to be considered a good employee. A teacher can very easily try to "teach to the test" and will probably do fairly well in doing so but that's not what we expect our teachers to be doing to make the best and brightest students in America. And for those who wish to look this up: in most countries if you're under-performing as a student they take you out of traditional school in favor of a technical school. That's how their "grades" are so much better than America.

@Postitve Me

Im sure glad I don't have a sibling like you....

No one is asking the teachers to make less...what we are saying is that we have very little sympathy for the "plight" of these teachers given their ave salary of $75K for 9 months work. And when a city is broke, I don't think it's reasonable to demand more money from it. As far as teachers' evaluations go, if you don't like the proposed method of evaluating teachers (based on student performance), how should they be evaluated? What's the teachers' proposal for evaluations? Or do they not want to be evaluated fearing that some of them wouldn't meet a standard (any standard, other than you got out of bed and showed up at work this morning!)? Sounds to me that they don't want to be held to any standard but want add'l pay...how can we justify pay raises without performance appraisals? Or should we just give out taxpayers' money because the teachers want it? Again, what's the counter-offer??????

bubba...

Your post sheds light on why the problem will never get fixed. If even a glint of a hint toward skin color enters the equation by a person of good intent, there's an immediate need for an apology...when one is not needed. 'Honesty' has been removed from the equation.

When there were 200+ shootings in Chicago over a single weekend this summer, the race apologists were all over the place pointing out that most of the shooters in the mass-murders we've seen this year were white males...as if that makes the slaughter in Chicago less of a disaster. They pointed out that it was a white mass murderer in Norway and Timothy McVeigh and Columbine and that's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't do a thing to stop the killings in America's cities.

In little New Haven, Connecticut last year...home of the world famous Yale University...population of just over 100,000, there were 34 murders last year, all but one victim was a young black male. But do you know what got the rallies started and the folks marching in the streets ??? It was the Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida. Oh, how that got the New Haven folks ticked off. It seems that in urban shooting galleries known as American cities, it's no big deal when one black man murders another.

Your apology was not needed and I do not even consider seeing the shadow of an apology in my post. If some do-gooder on this site thinks you or I are 'racist' they can stuff their comment. There has got to be a point in time when the discussion about the problems in the city can be openly discussed and we can stop making excuses for the rot that has taken over what were once beautiful places to be.

All you @!$%#s who are yelling FIRE THEM ALL I want to be at your work place and tell you how to do your job and when it doesn't work out so well I will fire all of you !! Sound about right !!?? No, well maybe you should look into it and see what the teachers are complaining about first !!

Fact: the dreaded test score portion of the evaulation counts for 28 percent of the total. In other words, do a half-assed job and you can still score a "B".

Fact: 77 percent of the education budget for Chicago goes to the union and to retiree benefits. Yeah, that leaves tons of money for the kids.

Maybe unions haven't completely outlived their usefulness but damn if we couldn't do without a few union leaders.

hello-3151011...won't be that hard

Johnm-1308966...we know what they want....they should be thankful for what they have....

I think the biggest issue is job security there is a plan to close a large number of schools and start charter schools which will change the status quo in Chicago and diminish the unions power.

So should teachers be the only fols in America with "job security" ??? And that means on top of the tenure they receive after a few years on the job ???

The only jobs out there offering more "job security" than a teacher has are "pope", "Supreme Court Justice", and "Democrat Legislator from Connecticut".

they have one of the worst school systems in the Nation, their teachers do not want to be evaluated and the union knows that its because they are as dumb as the students that drop out in record no's fire the lot of them and don't allow them to teach again for ever anywhere, disband there union and hire all new teachers that will do their job or face a similar fate, its not like you are going to lose something of value, ether they show up for work under the rules established by the city/state or they are no longer teachers end of strike, end of problem. maybe the kids will start getting a education those people don't even look like teachers, they look like a flash mob at a fat peoples convention, dump them. look at it from this point of view they are not shining examples, you have no education with them so whats the difference, keep them its more of the same get rid of them and Chicago gets a future. and the city will be on its way to gaining some security and respect. what a bunch of obesepeople don't they even try to take care of themselves. the Union is supposed to bargain for pay not run the district. those teachers are lazy and set a poor example, looks like all they do is sit on their duffs and wait for their over sized paycheck, are they paid by the pound?

@Miller Do you really think methhead parents account for fifty percent of the student population?

Jayfos

@JEREMYlk

Fine, it is YOUR JOB to teach the Children in your class. The way to judge IF you are doing it right, is IF they pass your class and eventually get their diploma

I normally would have agreed with you...then I married a teacher. She is a behavioral disorder special ed HS teacher. Half these kids have real issues, others just have bad parents. You have no idea how many times she comes home frustrated that these kids do not care about learning. All they do care about is getting wasted on weekends and becoming a rap or basketball star. She has tried countless of projects to stimulate learning and interest. Sometimes she gets a kid to light up but usually the light is snuffed by lack of support at home. She even earned teacher of the year in 2010 for her efforts.

BUT...unfortunately under your standards and the new contract, she would be under scrutany to be fired due to most of her students fail and test scores are low. The worst part... when they contact the parents, the parents actually turn on my wife accusing them of doing something to set off the student. This is not just with these kids, this is happening all over the country where parents do not want to parent their children leaving the teachers to fill in and disipline these students. They do not have the authority to disipline nor should they. This is what they mean by "judge us what we do, not what they can control". Schools of the past that you and I were in, where we had parents who cared and we didnt disrepect teachers, is not present today unfortunately.

#1.23 - Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:48 PM EDT

If a parent is that much of a problem, then maybe the school needs to document the problem and expel the student if the student refuses to participate in his education. Or, there's the "child abuse" report option--a parent's neglecting a child's education and crippling his ability to provide a future for himself in society as an adult certainly should qualify as a form of child abuse--report the problem to social services and get that loser parent into mandatory parental counseling. Make sure the parent is responsible for paying the associated costs for the counseling, too. Maybe they'll learn some responsibility that way.

Special Ed teachers are not expected to get their students up to the standards expected of the normal classes, but students should show SOME improvement from their time spent in school.

There is no real excuse for a teacher having a 50% failure rate. That's just sick.

The debate about teacher evaluation brings forth an interesting concept, the teachers are't willing to address, and that is, student evaluation, commonly known as graduation. In any class ( as a statistic ) there are going to be students who are good at math, and others who are poor at math, good in language skills, maybe poor in geography. As these students mature physically from elementary school toward 12th grade, it is understood that their talents will also mature. A child who plays piano in 2nd grade, continues on to be a superb piano player in 12 grade, might not be very adept with biology, and this would be understood, by looking at the overall picture of the students educational history. This is the idea of a "C" average. The teachers job isn't to turn Mozart into Charles Darwin, or vice versa. When a kid walks into the classroom, if their innate being is to be a Mozart, they are wired to be a Mozart and that's it, and for that child poor grades in biology. But what about the other 90% who walk into the class? They should be walking out more educated than they walked in, even the one who wants to be Mozart. Even people in comas can hear. So even if the kid looks like he's in a coma in class, speak to them.

The students are failing, because the school teachers are failures, because instead of being teachers they are being union members. What are the kids learning? Well they are learning that the people they are supposed to look up to, are at the same level of scum as the random shooters, and drug dealers who kill innocents in the evenings and on weekends. The union teachers don't care what kids they screw up, the gang bangers don't care what kids they screw up, the random shooters don't care if they hit or miss, because they are in it for the bling.

You people against teachers make me laugh at YOUR stupid reasoning skills. Maybe you should apply that same logic to your politicians who are making all those claims. What is the rate of success in Congress? I'll sure as @!$%# bet it is less than 50% And for the record, what is the approval rating of government? Go the F-U-C-K on!

So, trust2112, while I agree that our government sucks, I have to call you out on the fact that you complained about someone else's reasoning skills and used a logical fallacy to do it. Ever hear of a non sequitur? How about glass houses? Put the rock down and back away.

The anti-union people hypocrisy is astounding. How can they complain about illegal aliens bringing down wages in the US and at the same time fault American workers who just want to get paid enough for their hard work and to be able to raise a family?

These anti-union folks have no shame and, apparently, no brains.

So, we have kids learning under the "No Child Left Behind" act, right? So they are learning under a Republican plan, approved by a Republican President AND a Republican Congress. And the textbooks they use must be approved by the Texas Board of Education, no wonder those kids are stupid, they think like Texans, Bush and Republicans.

As Nelson on the Simpsons would say, "HA HA"

Olias... these posts are about the teachers strike, teacher performance, teacher pay, teacher productivity, teacher accountability and responsibility, the failing Chicago school system... not at all about illegal aliens bringing down wages in the US. If a person is an illegal alien teaching in the Chicago school district, or if there are a number of illegal aliens teaching in the Chicago school district you might have a point to debate. This debate is about the teachers and their poor performance, and the number of illegals in the profession is probably negligible. The debate is about the performance of the teachers. If they perform well and are a member of a union, that's not a problem. They are not performing well and that is due in large measure to their membership in unions and the union contracts.

Too bad the people who are so against the teachers and unions don't seem to the same vitriol over CEO's making 8 figure salaries. Fight to make over 75k for being an all day babysitter who tries to give your bored child an education and your a bum. Make 20 Million for letting other people produce and sell the product while you "manage" a company into the ground while walking away with a "golden" parachute and your a role model. The conservatives have their base so brain-washed that if they decided to claim the sky was purple with paisley polka dots every Republican would swear it was true. I think the real big deal is that some people's free daycare is being threatened and they don't like it because they have to find a non-free way to occupy their child from 8a to 3p.

Maybe Mayor Emanuel can look into his glass ball and come up with a Mayor's solution: order them back to the classroom.

Is this "strike" allowed under the Union contract ? If not, then there should not be a problem with an immediate court action. Heck, even the DOJ could provide lawyers on a quick notice. /s/

Comparing teachers/unions to CEOs is like comparing an apple to a turnip. Hey, that is a Progressive tactic.

I pretty sure that when you force a person to work that makes them a slave. Just sayin'

Mayor Emanuel plans to close one-fifth of Chicago public schools

By Joseph Kishore
13 September 2012

A central issue in the struggle of Chicago teachers is the plan by the city, backed by the Obama administration, to dismantle large sections of the school district, closing dozens of public schools and opening new privately-operated charter schools.

On Wednesday, the Chicago Tribune reported on the plans of Democratic Mayor Rahm Emanuel to close between 80 and 120 public schools, mainly in the most impoverished working class parts of the city, including Bronzeville, North Lawndale, Garfield Park and Englewood. This would involve laying off thousands of teachers.

The Chicago Public Schools (CPS), the third largest school district in the country, currently manages 600 schools. Thus the city aims to eliminate up to one fifth of the public schools.

At the same time, the Tribune reports, “In a proposal to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, CPS officials have laid out a plan to create 60 more charter schools over five years.” This would bring the total number of charter schools up to 160 and the total number of public schools down to 480.

These plans explode the hypocrisy of the Emanuel administration’s repeated claims that the teachers’ strike is “harming children.” The city, having starved the schools of funding for decades, is seeking to privatize education. This will leave students at the mercy of a corrupt layer of businessmen, with the public schools facing ever worsening conditions of overcrowding and decay…

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/chic-s13.shtml

trust2112

So, we have kids learning under the "No Child Left Behind" act, right? So they are learning under a Republican plan, approved by a Republican President AND a Republican Congress. And the textbooks they use must be approved by the Texas Board of Education, no wonder those kids are stupid, they think like Texans, Bush and Republicans.

Not content with a non sequitur you had to double down with an ad hominem?

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

The Dread Pirate Roberts

Which side are you on or can you agree with yourself yet?

I am astonished at the ignorant comments on this stream. Clearly many of you proposing to fire the teachers have misplaced anger issues against your teachers because you failed to make the grade when you went to school and are caught in some low brow low wage job. If you think it is an easy job that anyone can do then cross the picket lines and help the Mayor out of the jam he is in. But first you will need to earn a masters degree which takes six years at no pay in fact you will be paying out about 50,000 dollars minimum if you are lucky before you ever collect a check. The teachers want accountability but being held accountable by how well your students do on a test is a poor measure of teaching skill. Especially when many children and young adults have ZERO support from their families or communities. How many of you whiners volunteer with your local youth? How many of you donate time to local charities or social programs to help others? How many are involved in your communities in any way? Did you ever support your own kids or attend parent teachers conferences? If you did you would know that the only parents who show up at those events are the ones who's kids are doing well. Why? because they have parents who show up. Most kids do not. So until you have walked in a teachers shoes just close the piehole and go strut your ignorance somewhere else.

Come on folks, they show up, well most of the time and only a percentage of them sit in an office on thier behinds because they couldn't funciton in the classroom, what more do you want. They can't be evaluated, what if we found out how many of them are useless and started firing them. Oh, boo hoo. You are such mean people.

Vargus... I have over the decades given lectures and demonstrations mostly related to science and art, to thousands of students and their teachers, in thousands of hours of personal effort... and I'd fire teachers for being incompetent. I'll give you a reason why, and a damned good one too.

I was giving science lectures at a Science Center for a good period of time. These were to be entertaining, but the students were to learn something as well. School buses would show up and belch out a class and their teacher and these classes ranged from elementary school through high school, ( adults are allowed too. ) Science involves math in many areas. So thinking I'd be the one to change instead of forcing my advanced knowledge on the kids, I started asking, " What grade are you in? " If the kids said 5th grade, I figured I could cater the math to the 4th grade level, and the science lecture and the math would be pertinent to the audience. What I found out was the teachers had no understanding of the math level the grade was suppose to " function at. " So I went down to the school district and got a copy of the math requirements for the students, for each grade as required to be taught by the district ( and the State ). I would hand a copy of this paper ( requirement ) to the teachers of the students, figuring they could answer student questions about how to calculate the volume of a sphere if they had such a question after the lecture. The teachers were for the most part dumbfounded, administrators were angry, etc. How dare a science lecturer to expect students to be math literate at their grade level! It wasn't the students complaining, they were applauding the lecture(s).

Science doesn't exclude math, history, geography, social impact and ramifications, the arts, literature, current events, health, etc., etc., etc... so when you teach science it's a multifaceted, multidisciplinary function. Science isn't taught with miracles happening, nor divine intervention, nor political party favoritism. If you are a teacher of any subject, you should have the knowledge of how your subject applies, or is impacted by other disciplines... and if you don't know that, you're incompetent and should be removed from your job. Simple as that, ( about a 2nd grade math concept. ) A preschooler usually gets a puzzle where they place shapes in cutouts of that shape in a board, such as a star shape in a star cutout, a square shape in a square cutout, etc. If they try one shape in the wrong cutout and it doesn't work, they move on to the next cutout until it does. Move the incompetent teachers until they find their cutout that fits them.

The union apologists who claim the fault belongs on the students do have a point. Students who consistently perform below standard should be transferred to a resident program on the "pre-prison" track. School performance is largely about motivation. Teachers aren't the only ones who need to be motivated. Students need a reason to study too.

Staying out of a boot camp style pre-prison program might supply a motivation to some to actually pay attention in class and learn the material needed to be mastered in order to perform well on tests. Oh, and ban participation in sports for any student not carrying at least a B average in all of his classes.

Now, with motivated students filling their classes, teachers will have no excuse for not being measured by the performance of their work product.

While I agree, that's hard to do en masse. Just ask Reagan after he fired all the air traffic controllers. It's hard to replace so many educated/skilled people at once.

AG99....hard, maybe, but not impossible. Rahm needs to do the right thing by the kids here....clearly the union doesn't care about the kids...so the teachers can't care either. Bite the bullet, and get on with it. Or, he can be just another political $2 hooker selling himself to the highest bidders. Either way, we'll know soon whether the Mayor of Chicago actually cares about it's kids.......

I agree fire them all they are using children as hostages for their bargoning chips. I'm sure you would be amazed at how many teachers that belong to the union quit paying dues and and cross the line when they get their first strike pay check and wake up without a job. Hell they may even get their graduation rate up when they have to start being accountable.

@ AG99 - It's also hard to teach the kids when the teachers are all out on strike. So I guess there comes a point where it's easier and cheaper to replace them. If the strike goes on long enough it's a wash anyway.

And you think there are just thousands of people just raring to step into a classroom? Especially knowing that 50% of those kids aren't even interested in being there, that their parents don't give a flip, that teachers are forced to teach stupid curriculums mandated by high paid consultants who have never been in a classroom since college. Good luck with that. I'll bet non of you could last ONE DAY in a Chicago public classroom. Maybe if you were forced to, you would have a bit more empathy for these teachers.

A lot of very good teachers in Illinois have been laid off and with the number of new graduates looking for jobs, think you would be surprised at how easy it would be to replace the current teachers.

It's called a "black list", standard part of any good union buster's handbook.

One by one, the names come up and soon their gone, replaced by a better qualified non union worker.

Non Union workers are NEVER better qualified.

Been drinking the faux serum ????

Non Union workers are NEVER better qualified.

...what? So, being in a union automatically makes a worker more qualified?

Fire them all.... remember PATCO? The air traffic control system is better today than it was then. Only a union thug would claim that non union workers are never better qualified.... that says all that needs to be said about the mentality of union leaders........ ignorant to the core.

I think it's better if they fire all of the teachers and replace them with ones that care about the kids. Yes, school may be out for a couple months (in some cases longer) while they hire replacements - but it would be better in the long run to have teachers that care.

that's the only way to get rid of those that are lazy, poor teachers.

Do any of you actually know teachers that teach in inner city schools? If you don't, then I doubt your opinion is going to be an informed one. Is the teacher responsible for feeding the kids? Making sure they get enough sleep? doing their homework? showing up to class? Yes teachers should be held accountable, but parents should be held accountable for THEIR half of the learning process. How well can you concentrate after getting a poor nights rest and being hungry day after day? Point of disclosure, my wife teaches in an inner city school and we save up our extra money so she can bring in extra food for the kids that are hungry, seeing as the meals that they get in school are not only small portions, but also the only food these kids get in a day.

@AB I can't speak for Chicago, but lately the public education system has been trying to take on the role of "co-parents."

The "dream" has turned into a nightmare!!! NOBAMA 2012!!!!

There has been billions thrown at trying to educate inner city kids. The only real answer is to take them out of the ghetto and away from parents that aren't capable of being parents and let people who are adopt them and raise them to be useful citizens not gang members and generational welfare families. Then good teachers would be willing to teach them and they would be willing to learn.

The Community Organizer can't weigh in on this one, this is the Community he organized so well.

he will have "more leeway after the elections"

Obama stayed out of it in WI. Not once did he intervene. He didn't "scurry" off when Walker was going to win, as he was never involved in any of it.

dogs80

Where is the community organizer?

Perhaps we should refer to you as the drive through attendant?

DCC70,

Per the Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/30/scott-walker-recall-tom-barrett-obama_n_1556893.html

In fact, he did interject himself in WI. He also passed right over WI on a trip from MN to IL during the last part of the recall election. Now, did he scurry? That's a matter of conjecture.

Ask the Community Organizer where his kids went to school....tells you all you need to know - especially about the Chicago public school system....and the DC public school system, for that matter. There are no surprises here....they all know the system is failing the kids yet they do nothing about it. These teachers are scared to death....give the parents vouchers and they flee the public schools.....every experiment proves that to be true. There is no saving the current system.....vouchers (or something similar) provide an opportunity for new schools to emerge and 'compete' for students - how's that for a concept? Most of these teachers wouldn't/couldn't get hired by a private school that had to produce quality, educated students or go out of business. We spend more money per student than any country in the world and have among the worst results....that tells you all you need to know, people.....

Obama can't relate as his children go to a $70,000 a year school.

Grandfather, I would never send my kids to public school even if it was the best district in the country.

Maybe the Democrats should wake up: Rich democrats like Obama don't use public shools nor do they care about others,they just show a good front for campaign money!

Yes, it is about the kids (they don't see that though). But I say don't hire temps, hire REPLACEMENTS. Fire the whole lot of them.

Yes that would work but as in many schools systems that have teachers to work as a teacher you need to belong to the union.

The union contract has expired. So the schools can hire replacements without concern for the ex-teachers picketing outside.

Give them 24 Hrs to return to the class room:Those that show up have a job,the no shows get replaced. Its that simply. The educator Union has held the Tax payer hostage long enough.

Go USA-851295

Professionals do not go on strike. They do their jobs.

Look up the history of unions. All your workplace niceties that you take for granted (limited hours, breaks, sprinklers, fire exits that accommodate everyone in the building, etc.) are because unions organized for them. Unions' collective bargaining also raised the wages of non-union workers.

If you "did your job" you would know why unions are important to this country.

Boom-wrong why unions were good to this country, they have not been for some time they are corrupt and disgusting and anyone who makes more than 50K a year in thsi economy should be ashamed of themselves for demanding this kind of pay raise. Yes these teachers may have masters but a lot of us would if we worked the hours they did with summersoff and made that kind of money-also I know plenty of teachers who got their masters and it did nothing for their teaching, they werent any better at their jobs for it in fact most of them were the oens who had been around for too long and didnt give a damn about their jobs anymore. It was the younger teachers with one degree making a diffrence.

Boom! reason

Loop up history of unions, and you learn why unions WERE important 100 years ago. They did help establish worker rights...etc. But this teacher strike is nowhere near what the labor struggles were 100 years ago. This is not about safety, fair pay...this is about protecting teacher jobs above all else. Refusal to be accountable- which is ridiculous. Forcing the city to hire only from a union job back.

If unions wanted to be useful today- they would be working to help china...etc get safe work conditions, environmental rules, reasonable pay...not fighting for US fat cat teachers. They are fighting the wrong fight, and losing credibility...what little they have left anyway.

boom- Unions served a valuable purpose 80 years ago, but NOT today. Today they're greedy thugs in most cases. Case in point, this one.

all the work place niceties will exist now without unions as we have laws in this country. wake up liberal fools. your arguments are so darn old it's disgusting. it's time to work for a living. not hold your hand out.

Boom:It was osha that made the improvements in the work place!

My my my, my comment certainly ruffled a few feathers among the uninformed/misinformed.

T-REX-847863 said:

Loop up history of unions, and you learn why unions WERE important 100 years ago.

Take your own advice, but look up why they are still important. Why not just say that Glass-Steagall was needed almost 80 years ago, but not today? How will that turn out?

"But 10 years later, the end of Glass-Steagall has been blamed by some for many of the problems that led to last fall's [fall 2008] financial crisis."

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/10-years-later-looking-at-repeal-of-glass-steagall/

Refusal to be accountable- which is ridiculous.

You should take a few minutes to learn about the issue of student test performance. Financially poor students do disproportionately worse than wealthier students for many reasons, least among them is teacher quality.

impatient girl said:

Today they're greedy thugs in most cases. Case in point, this one.

Strong words your using. Too bad you didn't back them up with facts.

chris-1465269 said:

all the work place niceties will exist now without unions as we have laws in this country.

I'd like to live in your fantasy land.

My turnWi said:

Boom:It was osha that made the improvements in the work place!

Click here.

"IF"..............................:)

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Denver,

Regardless of your Aunt's tool set, Rahm is still a pussy.

They are also working longer days this year, they only want a raise to compensate for that.

They aren't opposed to teacher evaluations, they are opposed to evaluating teachers based on factors that can't be controlled by the teacher, such as a students home environment.

If salaries are based on standardized tests, what are teachers going to do? Teach exactly what is on the test, what a waste that would be.

Oh boo hoo, I work 9-10 hours/day how many hrs/day do they work? The home enviornment doesn't have anything to do with the teacher.

They had job security but chose to strike. Fire them all

no they have every right to strike what they forget is the public who pays their wages have every right to say........NO,

so do like every other strike, bring in temporary replacement workers and get back to school. let em stand around with their silly little signs and earn their 100 a week strike pay. course that will never happen it is after all Chicago, Democrats, and union votes and money we are talking about here.

Sure they can strike. But that doesn't mean CPS can't hire new teachers to replace the ones that are on strike.

That's right cyclone, fire all the union teachers for wanting a better plan for their children. The people on the board of education probably don't even send their kids to public school, Rahm dosen't. Yeah! I can just hear the new teachers, "six months ago I couldn't even spell teacher and now I are one"!! And all you people who hate the unions, it was the aerospace workers union that got us to the moon!!! Unions Rule, non-unions drool.

I never said that I hated unions.

BillFrank

I guess a 50% drop-out rate should then be seen as acceptable. Well the teachers have theirs and are destroying a whole future generation in its wake. Congratulations on a job well done. Oh, I forgot it's not your fault they didn't learn in school. I guess they were supposed to get an education somewhere else. Pathetic unionized mentality. Hey I must have received a good education. I had three long words in a row. Let's say them again.

Pathetic unionized mentality.

I'm not a teacher, just following what they are fighting for.

If you think a teacher can make miracles, fire away. The facts are, most of the kids are going home to one or no parents, gang trouble, can't play outside, are hungry, have to work to support the family etc. Do you really think in that situation they are going to work on their reading an extra hour every night? Or practice their math facts?

Home environment has as much to do with learning as the teacher. If you don't think so, you've never taught or don't have kids.

have two kids, one in Medical school, and one in Cornell. the difference? no public teachers in their background!! I went to public school. Dropped out at 15 after I was nearly killed in class as that pathetic unionized POS say=t reading his paper. He really molded a lot of lives.

yes it's hard today but their performance (the teachers) suxs!

CycloneJohn that is the dumbest statement of the year. Home environment has just about everything to do with student performance. It has been statistically proven for decades. Switch a teacher from the affluent suburbs to the inner city and move an inner city teacher to the suburbs and the scores will not change in either place.

I can tell you that I am a Union hater! The Union's started off trying to get better working conditions and to get child labor out.....They were good in the beginning.........now they just want more and more and we have run out of more! But no that is not a good answer for these selfish morons ......they want someone to run up that magic money tree and get em some more!
The Union bosses make huge money and they line the pockets of the politicians ........this needs to stop now!

Fire em all! They don't care about these kids ....they care about their pocket book!

Maine, if so much is out of the teacher's control, it sounds like the teacher is more like a sitter/placeholder. Let's reduce the pay to $35K/year and hire reliable HS grads.

These teachers want >70K and aren't even showing up.

The teachers are saying that it's impossible to evaluate their performance on "hard factors" or metrics. General improvement in the graduation rate and standardized test scores is attainable.

These teachers need to go for several reason, but the most powerful reason is their low expectations for their students.

The state took Race to The Top money. Aren't test scores supposed to be part of a teacher's evaluation according this educational "stimulus" plan?

There's a couple of blatantly false facts people are basing their opinions on. I know I won't change any minds, but I'm here to enlighten you.

a. American public schools are NOT failing, we have the best scores and grad rate ever in our history, the failing rhetoric is a republican/corporate media campaign...heavily funded

b. there is a direct proven correlation between poverty and test scores. Poor communities often have lower test scores, yes an individual may do better but statistically most do poorer

c. Switching teachers from an affluent district to a poor district has had no positive effect on test scores

d. America graduates more poor than any other country (25%), not that we can't do better. Also, other industrialized countries have safety nets to prevent the number and level of poor in their countries (some call it socialism, some call it humanitarianism)

e. Chicago is one of the more expensive cities to live in and teachers have an average of 16 years experience and a Master's degree. They are compensated fairly (or a bit low) for their area and level in their profession

f. Rahm reneged on the contract when he took away their negotiated 4% increase. Now they're trying to add unsubstantiated (and scientifically unsupported) evaluation measures on the teachers.

g. Not one single report or study has ever shown that basing pay on a teachers' evaluations has had a positive effect on the classroom environment, working conditions or test scores.

Many of you posting here have made up your mind, that's fine, but please take a step back and look at things differently: you can drag everyone down to your level (but remember there's always someone working harder and longer than you and making less money) -or- you can try to raise you and your fellow man up to a better place. The end results are vastly different for us in the middle/poor end of the scale - but for those on top, it doesn't affect them negatively at all.

Cyclone: " The home enviornment doesn't have anything to do with the teacher."

No one said it did. However the home environment has EVERYTHING to do with the student.

teachers always have an excuse. it's usually they need more money but there is always an excuse.

my niece took a big test in 6th grade. the maximum score was 200% with all the extra credit. tell me how that is good for kids?

and then you hear about these stories like the MN department of education handing out waivers to graduate but not having the resources to track how many waivers they grant?!? wtf?!?

Chris--tell you what--you do their job--then get back to me. You have no valid data on which to judge. Won't stop you though.

Does your niece attend one of the schools involved with the strike? If not, that anecdote is useless and meaningless.

Ignorance is bliss!

Appreciate the facts-based approach Bob2012. I disagree with you in that I think you can increase the grad rate and you can do better with the right approach, but I'll be honest that I don't know what that approach is.

Even if you're right, perhaps new blood in there that believes they can accomplish something great, even if the odds are against them, is what the situation calls for? Chicago is expensive, but I'm not certain you get a better teacher after 16 years, or one that's unable to adapt and challenge the children any more. I know that sounds heartless-just seems we shouldn't expect the worst, which is what they're doing when they claim "you can't measure improvement".

Well, you HAVE to try, otherwise the only thing you guarantee is more failure.

You are right, it is time for the parents to step up! Time for them to step up and impress upon their children the value of an education. Time for the parents to send their children to the classroom ready and willing to learn. Time for the parents to step up and make sure that their children do their homework and study at home so that they are prepared for the next day's lesson.

Everyone is focusing on one word TEACHING. The word that should be focused on is EDUCATION. And most people fail to realize, out of ignorance or mindset, that EDUCATION is a TWO WAY STREET! The teacher teaches AND the student LEARNS. If the student is not willing or able to learn the teacher can teach until blue in the face and no EDUCATION takes place.

Quit placing the blame entirely on the teachers. It also falls on the parents and the students.

I agree with you. I also agree it's mostly a parental problem. However, we don't get the luxury of dictating what the parents do or don't do outside the classroom.

I think for the 8 hours/day the teachers have these kids, they need to have the highest expectations. If this crop of teachers is right that the kids will be awful regardless, then that's fine, but show some objective improvement--something.

All the union is offering is a more expensive education failure. I want the teachers who expect their students to fail gone.

Chicago has a 6 hour day, they are being asked to work 8 hrs a day for $75,000 a year! Oh the horrors of it all!

Dare you to do it yourself, Nancy! Bet you'd sing a different tune!

Hey I worked 8 hour days and longer! And then went home and helped my kids with their homework. You do what you have to do, the teachers of today want the parent to teach the child! When I went to school I actually had teachers that wanted to be there and that wanted to teach you! And they were not making $75,000 a year and they were working 8 hours a day and longer.

I am not a teacher but show me the way for $75,000 a year! I am In!

I think all young children are eager to learn. The parents need to be pro-active and involved and their children's educations and homework. I am Black and a working person. My son was a genius in math and science (trigonometry in 9th grade). I could not help him with his homework, so I went directly to his math teacher and asked for her help. We agreed that she put him in the front of the class and make certain he understood the applications; I would ride his a$$ and make certain all homework assignments and projects were timely turned in and if these was an attitude problem, I would immediately take care of it. He got an A+ in her class. However, there is a saying -- you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You cannot change parents who do not care, are involved in drugs and don't care about their children.

@1ad-1602146 most parents who send their kid to government public school are using the system as a babysitter until they get home, where the TV is the babysitter. Lack of parent involvement is definately the key to the problem, but government school wants LESS parental input on your kids, that was the whole concept behind Kindergarten. Research Horace Mann, John Dewey and Friedrich Froebel and learn the socialist agenda behind these educational founders who were big supporters of Karl Marx.

WAY PAST time for parents to step up, but that would involve personal accountability, which isn't very popular these days.

How about we fire Mr. Emanuel instead?

How about we fire Mr Emanuel TOO? Just because of who he is and what he stands for.

I don't know how Chicago does it, but in my county the school board is independent, elected by the people. Mayors of local towns have no say in the way the schools are run.

Not for the 70K these teachers want. The Chicago district is one of the worst.

I see by he grammar of your response that you too must be a Chicago English teacher. If not, then get one of the "teachers" in your family to give you a few basic english lessons before you post

That's right. They earn their money, but not THIS much money. My brother and mother are teachers that are as outraged by this strike as anyone.

Work 9-10 months a year and get paid 50-70k with an obscene benefits package thrown in? Throw in little to no results accountablility for good measure. Is there anyone out there that wouldn't take that deal for the job they do? Anyone?

not

Sounds like your opinion is influenced by a family full of pro-union, high wage sympathizers. At least as educators, their STRIKE! signs will be spelled correctly.

My grammar is correct.

sjm, What is "he grammar"? You must teach also, maybe your one of them new non-union teachers.

no by the grammar that would be union

Barlow can you tell me the difference btween Public sector unions and private sector unions. probably not. Of course you are going to support the teachers union. Your piped in to the benefits.

None of you would last a day in these ghetto schools. Dare you to try it!

Who would want to risk their lives? My sister and several teachers said they want to leave teaching soon because of the "ghetto" vibe coming in.

Rahm? Chicago? union votes and money? fire em all? ......hahahahahahaha.......thanks for the laugh.............:)

No, it doesn't. But it also isn't what this dispute is about.

The raise is not the issue. The working conditions (class sizes, evaluations, materials) are.

The salary raises were put on the table by Emanuel because he knows teachers won't settle on the other issues. It is an age old tactic of turning the public against the teachers as pressure to settle.

And many on this board and elsewhere are falling for it.

Public opinion which is based on no real information about the situation at hand (and perpetuated by mob mentality) has no place in the discussion.

In short, "Quiet. The adults are talking."

Sorry, but the public is well aware that the teachers are wrong and we know the facts. No doubt you personally benefit in some way from a Union grab for public money and that's why you posted this drivel. Its simple: these teachers don't want to be held accountable when they fail, like all of us in the private sector. Fire them all. When Reagan fired the Patco union Air Traffic Controllers, union brown nosers had dire predictions of what would happen and were wrong. We got the same level of service for far less money.

Sorry, dude...but when it's MY TAX DOLLARS paying their salary, I have the right, the responsibility, to be involved in the discussion. These teachers work for US! We want them to EARN their raises bases on performance, not longevity. If they don't like the proposed method of evaluation, what's their proposal? Or do you not believe that teachers should be held to some minimum performance standard and should get raises just for waking up and going to work in the morning?????

Unfortunately you are beyond correct in this. Fire them all and replace them with fresh teachers who want to make a living and teach. Pathetic!!!!!!

Cue the clown music.

By your logic, summer break must be Sodom and Gomorrah.

Based on Chicago's current murder rate...yeah, pretty much Sodom and Gomorrah!

mccainis, Parents and society plan for summer break and they have all year to do so. Unions and their strikes disrupt everyone so they can force people to pay them more and give them more benefits.

Look what happened to the Steel and auto industries.

Chicago would still have an incompetent mayor after all of that...

Yeah...it's amazing....they (unionized teachers) are even worse than government bureaucrats...can't fire them either, but at least they try to work; seem to care about their jobs, have some pride in doing something worthwhile. Teachers in this country used to have those qualities, a few still do, but the NTU has pretty much driven that out of them. 16% pay increase? In this economy? They need to get fired, just like the Air Traffic Controllers, for breaking the public trust. You want to strike? Go work for GM....

Grandfather, you took the words right out of my mouth. Can you say PATCO? Send them packing NOW!

You better have a bunch of men or women who want to give up their jobs as guards in the jails because being a teacher needs that kind of toughness, and guards have guns to keep criminals in line .Try to be a teacher without any effective punishment available to use and try to keep your sanity trying to get a kid to do what he's supposed to when the only consequences you can use are "his future" . Dealing with kids is not the same as dealing with inanimate objects or adults that have compensation to motivate them.

I don't know, Vini. I agree it's a terribly difficult job, but I think a fresh outside perspective, and new teacher type needs to come in and have a crack at this problem.

At some point, when your pay is 2nd highest in the nation, pay and benefits clearly aren't the problem. I think they have the wrong teachers.

How much $ do you think they're making? Millions? Bet Mitt couldn't do their jobs!

Until you've walked in their shoes, how can you judge? Ignorance must be bliss!

FatRat55,

Then why doesn't the teachers' union come up with a comprehensive plan on evaluating performance and propose it? They don't have one. That's why.

What's the difference between a student's score and his/her progress? I thought a good score equates good progress. Perhaps I'm missing something.

I'm pasting an excerpt from Wikipedia to answer your third point:

Mayoral control of schools is a model of governance in American schools in which the mayor of a city replaces an elected board of education (school board) with an appointed board. The mayor may also directly appoint the head of the school system, called the chancellor or superintendent.^[1] Also known as “integrated governance”, mayoral control of schools is a formal structure of governance that replaces a structure in which “an elected board insulates schools from formal mayoral influence”.^[2]

The mayor does and should have influence over the school system. Get with it.

FatRat55,

I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but if the teaching environment in those districts is so bad, then why don't they relocate or choose another profession? They have the very same choice any other dissatisfied person working in any other industry does. You've chosen to stay where you're at because you feel it to be acceptable.

Give me a teaching job there. I'll let the kids do whatever the hell they want in class. I'll be the most liked teacher and I will eventually get tenure and never get fired because there isn't any "fair" way to evaluate my performance. If I get in trouble or if they want to get rid of me, I'll have my union reps take care of it.

and you'd be gone or insane in a heartbeat. Teachers can get fired, they just can't be fired unjustly. This is a republican myth. Butch, you can be a teacher in Chicago, get your degree and do it. But you won't, you're a blowhard and a coward hiding behind a computer screen. When you have a Master's degree and 16 years experience AND work in an expensive city, you'll see these teachers are fairly compensated. Evaluating teachers based on performance has been proven 100% statistically and scientifically NOT to work.

In the end, you can try to better yourself to have a better life or you can drag others down to your level and still feel like crap about your life, the choice is yours - don't go attacking others for your lack of effort.

Well said, Bob!! Amazing how many people with NO 1st hand knowledge nor experience--think they're qualified to condemn these teachers. Most of them would never even last the education required to get their teaching credential--let alone actually teach in these schools!

Unless you've walked in these teacher's shoes--you have NO way of evaluating this issue. Ignorance is bliss.

Bob - yeah, Chicago is an expensive city - some of the highest taxes in the country. And it's broke because of public sector unions! These teachers should be ashamed of themselves for demanding more pay and no accountability!

Teachers - you should be ashamed of yourselves. Very well paid with all the pensions, very low productivity, no accountability, and always want more. Why do you test the children when you don't want to be tested? Why do people in private sector be evaluated at least once a year whether s/he is good enough to stay at a company or not, but not the teachers?

Union organization is one of the reasons why America is getting to be less competitive.

Think the Mayor could use his executive powers and declare an end to the negotiations and begin highing non union teachers, many who would be glad to have a job. even many of the union teachers might drop their membership and go to work. Give them starting pay the same as present wage for the positons, 80% paid benefits, free life insuance, salary compensation bsed on both test scores and peer evaluation. Think if you did that, you would not only get a better teacher staff, but better motivated teachers, more controllable costs, and a lot less mass histeria from union leaders.

The Mayor is a puppet for POTUS and CANNOT stand against the largest $$$$$$ Donors to the POTUS campaign.

The teachers will get what they want, not because they are right but because they are 'connected".

Winners = the Teachers, the Unions and POTUS

Lossers = the Children, the Tax-Payers and the City of Chicago